Rome brings drama, but boycott talk dominates

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1:17Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast here on this fine Sunday evening to talk all things Rome and the final Claycourt 1000 event before Roland Garros joining us from sunny Solly Hull, the Rome of the West Midlands. David Law.

1:33David Law: that's got to be the first time that that has ever happened that it has been called that but i'm going to go with that and see if i say it out loud to people whether they whether they're up for it they're welcome to quote me on that on the tourist posters if they like uh joining us from actual rome it is the athletics charlie eccleshare charlie how are you doing i already know the answer to this i know you're you're absolutely buzzing as an arsenal fan i'm expecting peak Eccleshare this evening, please. I'm good. I will do my best. Yeah. Don't ask me anything about happening in the tennis between the hours of 5.30 and 7.30pm local time today because for me and a few others, I will say in the press room, all eyes were on what was going on in East London.

2:21But yeah, I'm doing well. Thank you. And our eyes as well, quite frankly. All sports fans' eyes, I think. Before we get into the tennis, and there is a lot of tennis to get into. We always bitch about the slow starts that these two-week-long 1 ,000 events have, but it does feel like a lot has happened already, so we do have a lot to talk about. But just before we get into all of that, I feel like we should start with the big news story that broke on the eve of the tournament, fuelled by some pretty punchy quotes from a number of top players, from the men's and the women's side, threatening in a very non-specific way a boycott if their complaints about Grand Slam prize money a grumble that we've been hearing at various different volumes for a while now if their complaints about prize money and player benefits at the slams are not listened to and acted upon so despite an overall year-on-year prize money increase of 9.5 percent for 2026 that Roland Garros announced a couple of weeks ago that brings the total prize money pot to$72.3 million.

3:30The top tens of the WTA and the ATP expressed what they called collective disappointment because of the percentage of tournament revenue that that prize money total represents. The percentage of revenue that that$72.3 million represents is 15%, which is very often compared to US sports leagues, where the players' revenue shares is often close to, if not more than, certainly hovering around the 50 % mark. Irina Sabalenka was the punchiest of the lot. She said, at some point, we will boycott. And then lots of other players echoed those sentiments. Quite a lot of them said, well, if there's a boycott happening, I'll definitely join in.

4:14Rabatkinis said, yeah, I mean, if there is one, then I'm up for it. Coco Goff said that. Novak Djokovic echoed those sentiments as well. Charlie, I know that The Athletic, you and Ava Wallace, have done a lot of reporting on this over the last week. And look, they are, any time the B word comes up in tennis, even if it is an empty threat, who knows, it's a big deal. The question that I always want to know the answer to, and maybe it's impossible to answer, I don't know, is how fair that comparison to the US sports leagues is. Because on the face of it, you hear the complaints from the top players and you think, what are you on about?

4:58They're increasing prize money at most slams by a minimum-ish of 10 % every year. You're earning gazillions of pounds or dollars. What have you got to complain about? But on the other hand, when you hear that comparison, 15 % to 50%, you think, right, yeah, get marching in the street, get paid your dues. So I guess, yeah, how fair is that comparison? Like, are the financial structures of Grand Slams comparable to the financial structures of those US sports leagues that are held up as the benchmark? I mean, first of all, as well, like, you're right that people aren't going to have sympathy towards, like, the top players, but also the Grand Slams are doing all right themselves too.

5:43You know, they're not doing badly when it comes to how much they bring in. You know, they're doing very well. To the extent that, let's say, hypothetically, they all increased their prize money to 50 % of their revenue, would they all still remain in profit? I mean, I don't know exactly, but that would be a huge uplift. I mean, they talk as well about really, you know, the first step we should say that they want is to get to like 22%, which is what the mixed 1000s have. So they're not going straight for that like 50 % figure. I mean, it is different. Obviously, most of those sports have like a league and that sort of thing, whereas an obvious difference is this is four separate entities.

6:29And just on a practical level, I do think that does make things really difficult. And that's been something that has come up again and again in conversations with players this week, is that it's so fragmented. So it is very difficult to kind of get, the kind of straight answers even that these players want and yannick sinner said this in his press conference he was like if this was any other sport i feel like the top players would be listened to straight away um and you know i've asked a few players about that as well and i think they do agree with it and i think one of the reasons is that there is a sense that it's so hard because all four even all four of the different sams you know it's not like they they're all a kind of homogenous being we're at a point where one of them has taken a separate point of view in a lawsuit to three of the others like it's so it's so divided i mean we would be talking about a monumental increase to get towards like a 50 mark and i think the players like i say it is more about kind of at this point it's that 22 percent figure i think as well for atp only events it's around 30 percent it's a bit higher um so obviously you know the the amount of the proportion wise for the slams uh it is a fair bit off and should say as well and i think sometimes the players some are good at articulating this some less so it it it isn't about them or at least that's the argument that's that's given um by the group as a whole that it's not about making sure that Yannick Sinner and Irina Sabalenka get more money.

8:00It's about players further down the pyramid. To be fair to the FFT as well, most of their increases have been aimed at that level of player and there have been some really big increases at that level over the last few years. Negotiations are always about power, aren't they? And the threat of a boycott is really... It's emphasising player power, isn't it? It's sort of showing your hand and saying, this is how much power we have. Does the threat feel real enough to you for the slams to actually move on this? I mean, this is the thing, like going into that Tuesday, I was really curious. I wanted to ask these players, asked Sabalenka.

8:45She was one of the first players I asked actually and she went straight for the jugular with it. And it's obviously very impactful when they do that. And it's great for us. You know, it was like a great story straight away first day of the tournament. um you know the tournament yeah the tournament only started that day but it was really you know often those media days could be quite slow but this was like straight bang into it i think when you actually then drill into it a bit having spoken to other players and people involved with this group there haven't been like formal discussions about a boycott like we're quite a long way off that and you know it's not again talking about the slams not being homogenous the sense i've been given is that it's there's a wide there's a big spectrum of views from different players but certainly you know it's a it's a big attention grabbing you know it's a thing to say you know that boycott word I still think there are enough players you know they really don't want to do it as well that's the thing they really don't want to do it because like and I'm just skeptical the extent to which you know they would like it would take so much especially as they they would it would be an essentially selfless act and how often do elite athletes act selflessly like everything about them is geared towards winning and if they actually stopped and thought about it like do i want to like win fewer grand slams for the sake of the number 100 in the world being an amazing thing to do if they did but but and then there's this separate thing which sinner talks about like where it's about it's a question of respect um which I totally get.

10:24But again, is Yannick Sinner going to sacrifice Grand Slams because he feels a bit disrespected? Like, I'd be amazed, quite frankly. And then, I mean, yeah, Coca-Goff did make that quite funny point. She was like, yeah, I probably wouldn't do it if I was on my own. I'd be quite annoyed if I would have turned around and realised no one else was doing it. I mean, it would have to be like a big bit of collective action. And like, how long have we been covering tennis? Like, how hard is it to get anything organised collectively, let alone something this significant and on this scale. Yeah, I know they were really understandable and relatable and quite funny, all those quotes, you know, from Rabakina and Gough saying like, yeah, if there's one happening, then that sounds great, I'll join in.

11:04But one is only going to happen if there is a... It tends to take a talisman, right, or a talisman, a figurehead that is prepared to make the sacrifices. Obviously, the most prominent example is Billie Jean King, who sacrificed her own personal achievements in order to achieve something greater. Like this isn't it's not an age of activists, is it? In the sport. I mean, David, could you ever envisage in reality, not just not just threats? Could you ever see these players boycotting?

11:42David Law: I think it's important to say that it has happened before and we covered it on Tennis Relived when the players, a huge number, 80-odd players boycott Wimbledon in 1973 in order to stand up for Nicky Pillich who was being banned from playing the Davis Cup this is very, very different and this is about money and yes, it is I'm pleased that the idea seems to be to support the lower rank and file. And there is absolutely a fair principle, I think, that the sport is doing incredibly well. How come we're only getting this percentage of it? It's just that that percentage of it is an enormous amount as well.

12:28David Law: So it's a pretty difficult one to win in the eyes of the public, I think. Yes, you'll certainly get fan bases and people who understand tennis And people in the business, I think, would be more sympathetic. But I think if you were to stop the random in the street, they're not going to have a huge amount of sympathy for this position compared to, say, you know, what might have been the case with Nikki Pillich back in the day. I wasn't around at that time to know. But, you know, that was an incredible stance. All those people, all those men prepared to stop. I remember Billie Jean King telling us we were happy, we would have been happy to join them in that as well.

13:08David Law: but they didn't ask, they didn't care about us so they created their own association instead at the same time. I would be amazed, to quote Charlie, I'd be feeling the same about that. I mean, Andy Roddick did put huge pressure on them many years ago as he tried to drive some change and argue this point and had some success. I mean, put pressure on But trying to actually get the players to come with you is another matter. And then I actually think that this group, because they've made it quite a small group with the most power, it feels like it is actually one that you could wield something and make something happen because you don't have to try and get 60 people to do it.

13:57David Law: You're trying to get 20 people to do it, and they happen to be the biggest names in the sport. You can get them in the room and have a conversation. say you can put your name to a letter on behalf of all of them they've had larry scott involved who's just the most incredible administrator and understanding of of the business you know and he he was able to help along with billaging king and venus williams and and one or two others drive the prize money back in 2007 at wimbledon you know these were this is this is a guy who knows about this stuff we've covered him on on tennis relived as well so i feel like they've already they've already made significant strides quietly and almost correct me if i'm wrong charlie almost namelessly because they have a name but they're not really doing the the public thing in quite the same way they're talking about being a group of 20 players the top 10 men and women um and and letters on behalf of them.

14:56David Law: But meanwhile, you've got the Professional Tennis Players Association. Well, what are they now? I can't quite remember. You know, you're trying to remember what they are. And oh, there's also an Association of Tennis Professionals tour. There's a Players Union, a Players Council there as well. So considering all that, I think they've actually done quite well. But I don't know whether Sabalenka was sent in to try to drop that grenade and get Tong's wagon. I suspect she probably just said it. And okay, they're words, but I don't believe that that's going to suddenly happen. Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing with Sabalenka as well is she's not, from my understanding, been one of the people, you know, really driving it and engaged behind the scenes.

15:42You know, she hasn't been like a Jessica Bergula type character, but she is very forthright. she is someone who will kind of say it as she sees it which you know also has a has a value as well but I don't think she was coming at it from a point of view of like this is based on lots of conversations I've been having with other players and kind of negotiations I've been having I think it was more this is how I feel I'm annoyed at this situation and I'm just going to say that which does carry a lot of weight. My favourite little wrinkle of the story is that they've stuck, in terms of the signatories to this letter, they've stuck with the same 20 players from when the original letters were signed last year, presumably to prevent having to have awkward sort of, you're not in the top 10 anymore, we don't require your signature.

16:36Please get the tip X out conversations. Well, I think for the second letter in July, they did add a few. So it is a bit more. So they only add, they never subtract. They're in the awkward, your form has dropped off a cliff. Yeah, because I think Sitsapas was on the original list or was certainly close by because it was March 2025. And so I think when the letter was sent, so I think the group was formulated before then. And then, yeah, they did it. The second letter went late July and a few got added, like Jack Draper because he was outside of the top 10 in February or whatever it was of 2025 and then was in.

17:16So, I mean, yeah, that's another thing. Like there will or there kind of has to be a fluidity because the rankings don't pause in time. Once you're in, you're in. It's like the last eight club. Okay, if you want to read more on all of that, a lot of detail in Charlie and all the athletics reporting on the matter. So do check all of that out and we'll keep you posted as things develop. That's it for part one. We'll get into the tennis in part two.

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20:32We had Marta Kostiuk withdraw prior to the tournament, following on from her Madrid title. I don't think that was any great shock to anybody. Probably quite a cautious, sensible decision. The news took a while to reach Sam Querrey on the tennis channel, whose social media team have totally thrown him under the bus. We had the very, very bizarre withdrawal, Charlie, of Emma Raducanu. Talk us through what happened there because you were in the room, you were present for all of it. Yeah, it was so weird. So at between 6.27 and 6.32pm local time, we a few of us who were there um had a chat with emma really good spirits um she was talking about feeling like she turned a corner and felt a lot better i mean you know she said i wasn't feeling 100 percent um and i even said to her because we were asked afterwards it was like did she explicitly say she was playing and like it would have felt absurd to ask that question outright because of the way she was talking.

21:41I did ask her though, I said like, were you tempted to skip this in Ronan Garros, you know, if you're not quite there, just to be like, I'm just going to completely try and refresh for the grass. And she said, no, you know, clay's really good for my game long-term, you know, the usual stuff you hear from players about constructing points, et cetera, et cetera. But zero indication she was going to pull out. Like honestly, she seemed, yeah, she seemed so much better. And then at 7pm, the email went out saying she'd pulled out. And it was just, it was so, like, because I first saw it, a tweet went out just saying like Raducanu's pulled from one of those like entry update, the entry update feed.

22:28and it was like a genuine moment of like disbelief like me and the reporters around me most of whom had you know started writing their piece on kind of Emma Adekarno says she's turned a corner as she you know plays her first event in a couple of months and yeah it was a real like double take moment and then obviously do your checks is this genuine and then yeah I was informed at 7 p.m so half an hour after talking to us the email went out and obviously that doesn't just happen straight away or nothing would have happened in that intervening half an hour um so you so yeah all very strange you think the decision was made before her speaking to you because i don't know the statement i just don't know i mean like not there's not really any outcome that makes a lot of sense i mean i guess it's possible she i mean maybe when she spoke to us she was like 99 sure she was going to pull out even and was like but i i don't want to say it i'm definitely sure and we like boris johnson prepared prepare me two statements and yeah exactly yeah posts yeah somewhere out there is a statement from her saying how much she's raring to go looking forward to it but um her physio and snc person emma stewart was there or sort of like as we walked off she was kind of there waiting so I don't know maybe they had a conversation and at that point like fully decided but it was just yeah it was all very strange because I you know I think it would have been a far more productive to have a conversation without even to just be like look just to give you a heads up I am gonna pull out this is why I'm doing it I feel a lot better but I'm just not quite there and that just wouldn't have been a story really I mean maybe it would have, well, I'm sure, you know, bad faith people would have said, oh, you know, she's missing another tournament, etc, etc.

24:24But, I mean, if you're missing the tournament, you're missing the tournament, at least kind of get in front of it and explain what's going on. Now, I think everyone was just left being like, well, what's going on here? Because this is such an odd situation. Yeah, I've never quite heard of anything like that sequence of events on that timeline, to be honest. She's been posting training training photos and so on on her Instagram she seems to be still training on clay indicating she doesn't tend to play Roland Garros maybe even a tournament next week ahead of yeah we knows yeah we were told that that is definitely in play if she can you know if she can get into one um and she'll need that you know having not played any clay um if she's able I mean I think um Brigsy said that there was in there was a comparable situation a few years ago at the Madrid open but on that occasion it had been a very terse kind of media briefing and there was definitely a sense that something was up whereas yeah this time that it was nothing like that it was all really positive and upbeat seeming weird very weird um other withdrawals probably the big one is Amanda Alessimova she withdrew before her opening match against Yulain Osterpenko with an ongoing wrist injury which sounds a bit of a worry quite frankly um we've just got the news that she's she's working with the coach Sebastian Sachs on a on a trial basis so Sebastian Sachs seems to got himself into a Greg Rzedski type situation signed up to coach an injured player when will they get off the starting line who can say um Matt has had some input in the agenda here Matt, who is on another golfing holiday.

26:11Is he a professional golfer, David, or is he a tennis podcaster?

26:15David Law: Well, we'll find out in the months to come, won't we? I mean, you know, maybe this is his journey, so we may lose him. Charlie may be getting the call up more often. Matt points out that Sebastian Sachs was formerly with both Emera Adekanu and Belinda Bencic, so he obviously loves the backhand list. That was a good backhand. Right. Let's talk about actual tennis that has happened. I feel like we should start with the earliest tournament exit in 15 months for the world number one, Irina Sabalenka. She was beaten 2-6, 6-3, 7-5 by Sarana Castella, who is surely having the greatest retirement season of all time.

27:01She was brilliant. Notable assists from Belinda Bencic, who was bizarrely sitting. in Sarana Castella's box throughout, despite having a match of her own a couple of hours later, which she promptly went and lost. And she was sort of contributing to the coaching. She's good friends with Sarana Castella. Not often you see that, particularly when the player has a match later that day. She was into it. And a very heavy assist by the looks of things, certainly in the latter stages, from a worrying-looking lower back injury for Rina Sabalenka. She says it's her lower back slash hip, and she said it was limiting rotation.

27:44And, David, you sounded pretty worried by what you were seeing in the latter stages of that match.

27:51David Law: Well, it was the sudden manner in which her movement started to be impeded. You know, she's always somebody who chases every ball, Sabalenka. you know is my sense you know she's such a fighter and she didn't give up I mean she was still battling away trying to win the match but I was really struck by a couple of winners that went by that she just didn't run to and she had she had some some attention to her her back there on the court she just looked uncomfortable um and look you know you can you can injure your back or you You can get a twinge like that, and it may be a while, a few days of rest and so forth, and then you're back up and at it.

28:36David Law: And I suspect that's probably what this will end up being. But equally, this is not the three-week spell I was expecting to see from Marina Sabalenka. I think we had a podcast a couple of weeks ago, and I said I'd be quite surprised if it's not a Sabalenka or a back-in-the-final, and then they both lost. And I was saying at that time that I felt maybe Rebecca is overplaying. Well, she looks okay at the moment. It's Sabalenka, who's the one who's had all the time off, who looks physically impeded. But I would have thought that it really matters for Sabalenka to have a win, to win one of these two tournaments and to be flying when she goes into running garras.

29:22David Law: Not to say she can't do it. I mean, I think you could end up getting an extra week's rest and end up benefiting from it at Roland Garros. But given this is not the one she's won before, I don't have as much confidence that she's just going to come in and be fine. That's kind of it, isn't it, Charlie? Like, OK, the injury is a worry. And it's weird, isn't it? Because I'm just never on injury alert with Saban. It took quite a long while to process that that's what we were doing. were seeing because she's so robust physically but take the injury out of it let's say it's nothing she's over it in a couple of days it doesn't affect her at Roland Garros this is still really suboptimal preparation for Roland Garros like this is this is a problem really for for Rina Sabalenka going into to a grand slam she obviously wants to win and probably still be favourite four maybe not if Shontek goes on to win Rome this week I don't know but yeah I think if it's not much of an injury she still would be but yeah four wins two losses on the clay going into Roland Garros I mean as David said you've got long odds on anything like that um yeah it was it was so strange because she has so many matches like this in some ways early rounds uh of tournaments where it's a bit scratchy, but she just always finds a way to win.

30:47So it was just really, it's quite unnerving when you see players who are so reliable then on the very rare occasion when they don't do it. I guess it is quite a hard match to evaluate because we don't know how much was down to how physically impaired she was. I mean, she did reference that after. She said, yeah, it was an issue because Steyer played amazingly well and I think is quite a good person to kind of exploit an opponent's weakness and she's not going to be intimidated, a rollover. An incredible win for her. And she did play extremely well. It's a sign as well, though, of Sabalenka's unbelievable fighting spirit that even after that medical timeout, she still broke back on the first occasion when, and she was like wincing in pain.

31:32And it was just through sort of force of will and maybe because they are getting a little bit nervous. But it is really interesting because in the space of, you know she's lost two out of her last three matches now Savalenka and in the space of that time you know going into that Baptiste match and even when she was a set up or when she had those match points it was you were still thinking of her as like you know dominant world number one big favorite for French Open with Rabakina maybe Sviontek and now all of a sudden only she had those losses there's an injury concern and I don't think there's any certainty around her now Yeah, fascinating situation for Sabalenka to be in, one that we wouldn't have contemplated a few months ago when she was, well, weeks ago when she was doing the Sunshine Double.

32:18Hope she's fit. And it does, you know, make things interesting, doesn't it? Nozkova next for Kistea, incidentally. Defending champion Jasmine Paolini is out of the tournament and out of the top 10. Feels like that's been in the mail for a while. It was a tough watch, her defeat to Elisa Mertens. I mean, a great contest, but she had three match points. Paolini, this one was within her grasp, couldn't convert. And it was tough. It felt inevitable, even though she had those match points somehow. And maybe now she's got that Rome title defence out of the way and having this top ten tag around her neck out the way.

32:58I don't know. Maybe it'll free her up. Maybe the problems run deeper than that. Time will tell. It is Mira Andreva next for Elisa Mertens. Let's talk about Coco Gough. She survived her opener against the Sierra. Yeah. In lots of ways, textbook Coco Gough winning ugly, five, seven, six, love, six, four. And the whole way through, I'm hearing Matt Roberts in my, ringing in my ears. Coco Gough is never as high as you think and never as low as you think. And then a text drops from Matt Roberts saying, I've never seen Goff lose her composure like this. Like, yeah, we've seen her do all sorts of ugly things on a tennis court and win anyway.

33:50She's the master at it. It's an absolute sight to behold. But she was sort of self-harming at points during this match yesterday, Charlie. and she gave some very frank comments after the match saying she's had things off the court that she's been trying to get through. She said it's been going on for a few months and she has good days and bad days. But it's a tough watch for Coco Gauff right now, which means she'll probably go on and win the tournament. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I mean, it was like watching Andrei Rublev on a bad day, quite frankly. Like there was a lot of smashing her head with her racket, smashing her head with her hand.

34:29Like it was really uncomfortable. Sort of frequent acts of self, yeah, of self-flagellation. And yeah, we spoke to her afterwards. I mean, because I found it quite reminiscent of that period towards the end of Brad Gilbert in 2024, of her working with Brad Gilbert in 2024, those defeats to Emma Navarro at Wimbledon, the US Open, where, you know, she was kind of despairing to her box and it was quite an uncomfortable watch. And then she talked about how she didn't want to play like that anymore um so i wondered if it was something to do with that but yeah she she spoke after about how yeah it was stuff happening uh you know kind of personal stuff um which yeah i mean you know players go through things and you know have days where they just don't really want to be out there but it's a job like any other and they have to and she talked about the fact as well that i she didn't say this she said just that you know there are lots of people in her team and things like that as well and she wanted to go out for them and that's I guess different from most of us because if most people don't show up for work whatever there aren't you know people as directly affected maybe or maybe for some people they are but yeah that was that was your direct not showing up for work that is true yeah and I hope he knows that and feels guilty if ever he doesn't show up um but yeah it was it was very uncomfortable and like good on her for fronting up and you know it can't have been easy having to then talk I'm sure she really didn't want to talk about it and she said she was like it's hard because she was like I always want to be candid and honest but that's about my tennis I can't go into personal stuff which is obviously completely understandable and as well you just hope that there isn't you know a ton of speculation and that kind of thing which I guess is is inevitable to some extent Charlie I think exactly well Honestly, it was one of those ones where it's like, you don't like, and I don't think any of us who were there really did.

36:24There weren't many of us. There was only, I think, a few of us. But you're like, if you do report this, it is, I mean, and obviously those quotes get out anyway. But it just, you know, it sets off this like stream of endless speculation. And yeah, I think it's tough for her. I just hope she can start to enjoy it a bit more. You know, because sometimes players find it a bit of a sanctuary being on court. you know, kind of, and they're able to switch off and go into a different mindset. But yeah, she was just hating it. I mean, it was the weirdest thing. She won the second set six love and she looked like she was hating every minute of it.

36:59There was like, if you were watching that and you were asked like, what, what's the score of this seven? If you were told that that player had just won the set six love, not like, you know, we all get in those moods that even when you're, when you're in such a mood that even like good things, you're annoyed, they kind of annoy you in some way as well you're just like oh well yeah of course i've hit this good shot now why couldn't i've done that you know when it was tight in the first set that i lost and uh yeah but um yeah at least she won i mean that's the overall though i mean i've written about this it's been a we talk endlessly about how these you know first week of these two-week masters are so slow and so boring and nothing happens i feel like this was a pretty action-packed first week like lots of upsets lots of intrigue lots of off-court stuff there was loads going on um and this this This was, you know, this felt like this might be kind of the story of that Saturday.

37:47And then obviously Sabalenka goes and loses and there's Fonseca, Medvedevich. Like there was loads happening. And Ogeli Asim, you know, he did an underarm serve because he was cramping so badly down match point and saved it and then lost the next match point. Like it was a pretty wacky day and a wacky week overall. Yeah. You know, things are happening when Felix Ogeli Asim is being described as wacky. not just the players getting injured francisco roy has yes exactly in practice he did this promotional uh activity at a roman piazza that so eager likes this game where you sort of play in the service boxes and volley to each other and he's apparently a really good volleyer so she was like oh he'll love this game let's play against each other put 100 euros on it make it a bit of fun she's up match point at which point he stretches for a shot i mean he's like 58 by the way so like and i'm sure he's going at you know he's a competitive person i'm sure he's like absolutely going at it stretches tears his achilles but apparently is like and in front this is like in front of the watching public apparently like really holds it together it like barely shows any emotion and then has to be like yeah i think i've done something quite bad goes to poland and back to have surgery and talking about it he missed one day's work apparently he missed one training session uh to have this operation and then yeah you see him kind of hoisting himself around on crutches he's watching with big bandage on his leg I mean he looks seriously uncomfortable and then it's like well how is he going to coach I mean obviously you know this is like a nine month recovery period and he's going to be there just sort of on the side watching and encouraging I guess.

39:34Yeah, on heavy pain medication, presumably. Wacky tactics incoming from Igor Shvantec. It was a bit of a nail-biter, wasn't it, David? Her opener against Katie McNally who's having a you know, putting a season together is Katie McNally now that she's fit. Failed to serve the match out twice. It got very tense. Did this match for Igor Shvantec had a lot of the hallmarks of one of those matches that we've seen a lot of recently that Shvantec seemed in total control of and then suddenly it's slipping away and it's like she's in quicksand. But she got it together and boy did she get it together in her second match that we've just watched against Elisabetta Cotciareto.

40:23It just absolutely blew her away.

40:26David Law: Yeah, and if the history is anything to go by, she'll now go and win the tournament because when she lost the set to Katie McNally at Wimbledon, she was the only one to do so. She went and won the tournament. And yeah, as you say, sure enough, she's gone and just ripped through Cotillareta today, who I think wasn't 100 % fit herself. And that is a repeat of last year's same scoreline against Cotillareta. Yeah, I think McNally is a player who is just so different. she can ask questions that the vast majority just don't. And she totally believes in her own game. I think she gets a kick out of the fact that her game is A, different, and B, affects people.

41:12David Law: And I think the biggest thing is she's just so happy to be back because she's just had such a terrible time with injury. And there was quite a warmth at the net because Shvantec knew. She knew she'd been pushed and it had been hard work and it had been stressful and tiring. and McNally knew that she'd done that to her as well and kind of almost got the win. And I think that they both enjoyed that match in some strange sort of way. But I don't know. I think ultimately this is all part of the building of Esfjante back into the player she wants to be on clay. Can I just say on McNally as well, I was really intrigued to watch her after hearing David, you kind of sum up her game and her comeback a bit.

41:58and she, watching live on the court, she has incredible anticipation. Like she, that was the thing that stood out. She kept, and it's not guessing, it's like educated guesswork. She kept reading where Svante was going to go. And there was one point where Svante was right up at the net. Let's the ball bounce. It was basically just, you know, put away an easy shot. McNally rushes forward herself to meet it on the volley. It was incredible. And she got it back. She ended up losing the point, but it was like an extraordinarily kind of kamikaze tactic but worked and that was what won her the tie break she got she got some shots that were kind of somehow landing in but it did feel like a consequence of the fact that she kept reading where Shviontek was going because Shviontek got dragged into that third set because she was putting herself in winning positions but just couldn't quite finish the point but I think it'll be good practice you know that kind of more patient point construction.

42:51It wasn't the Svjantek we've seen, you know, for much of the last year where she's kind of got a bit ragged and gone for too much. Like this was, this was more patient and more sustainable. Favourite for the title from here? Svjantek or Rabakina? Rabakina is, she's beaten Zachary and Ayala today very comfortably. I think she's got Pliskova now who's just, just beaten Laura Siegmund in a match that somehow escapes from my schedule. Rebekah does look good. She is in that kind of, I mean, business kind of mode. Just so efficient, taking the ball early. Some of her returns today against Ayala were devastating.

43:34And I know Ayala's not exactly the biggest server, but I guess there's always that slight question mark with Rebekah is, you know, does she have the durability for a two-week event? I know that's something Matt Roberts often picked up on. But, yeah, at this point, she's looking pretty good as well. David, your favourite from here. Does Alina Svitolina deserve a shout?

43:59David Law: Absolutely. I mean, she's played the best tennis that I've seen in the tournament so far today against Hayley Baptiste. She was absolutely stunning from start to finish. She just won comfortably. I think Baptiste had a bit of a rocky day. I think to get a scoreline of, I think it was 6-2, 6-1 or 6-2, 1-6-2, to get something like that, you're going to have to have them both at the opposite extremes of their talent in a way because Baptiste is too good to be losing like that, really, most of the time. But, yeah, everything's Vissalina hit was coming off. She's been really good at this tournament before.

44:37David Law: Wouldn't be surprised. To me, like, to use the mix analogy, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she ended up winning this tournament. but as a favourite yeah I think I'd still go with one of the two you've mentioned especially as Gough doesn't look happy at the moment I mean you know she's the reigning French Open champion so I think you've always got to put her in that conversation as well but Rabakina looks serene and Chiantet looks like she's building so it's a really interesting tournament doesn't feel categoric to me Potapova picking up where she left off from Madrid. She's qualified, beating Nikola Barton-Kova in qualifying, incidentally, who herself is through to, what is it, the round of 16 now?

45:22Because Barton-Kova beat Madison Keys today. So she qualified, beating Barton-Kova on the way, and she's beaten Ludmilla Samsonova and Karolina Mukova. Potapova. I mean, this is serious stuff from her now. She's got Jessica Pagula next, which, I don't know, I mean, maybe Potipov is a favourite for that. I don't know. Yeah, I did ask Potipov right now. I was like, the way you're playing, like, do you fear anyone? Because I feel like she's the kind of player who no one is going to want to play right now. And, you know, she didn't want to, she said, she was like, I don't want to be cocky about it.

46:00But clearly the self-belief is just like... That sounds like a yes. Yeah, a little bit, exactly. Like, absolutely. But she should be really confident. And like how impressive after that Madrid open run, as you say, to go and qualify, like, you know, that's a pretty tricky turnaround and pretty, you know, it's kind of a rankings quirk that she had to do that. And yeah, that Barton Kovar win has aged pretty well. Incidentally, Potopova was asked about Barton Kovar and how impressed she was. And she was like, yeah, I would just, she was kind of blown away by how good she was. And she's been a really fun story this last week here.

46:36Barton Kovar. holding my fantasy team together is Barton Cova at the moment. Barton Cova and Kabali leading the line for me. Wow. I don't know. Because I feel like top of the table stuff. I used the word sustainable before and I'm not sure I'd use that here. Yeah, my safe bet is Irina Sabalenka. What on earth is going on? Just finally, before we move on to the men, I wanted to touch upon the Alexandra Olenikova story from this week that's got quite a lot of coverage. Charlie, I know you've covered it and talked to her as well this week. So Olenikova, who's been making herself more and more relevant this year, career high ranking of 68 in the world right now.

47:21You know, she's getting into these, the main draws consistently. She's making herself increasingly a factor. She lost to Linda Noskova in round two in Rome. But she had posted while she was still in the tournament to Instagram some criticism of the WTA for what she considered as attempts to effectively silence her. She said in the Instagram post that she's been threatened with fines of tens of thousands of dollars and with disqualification by the WTA over her criticism of specific Russian and Belarusian tennis players, including Belarusian world number one, Irina Sabalenka. I mean, that's that's quite a story.

48:06Yeah, yeah, it is. And obviously it's especially awkward because I was talking to asking her questions about this, you know, asking her to, I guess, elaborate or whether she stands by it. And obviously a WTA press officer, an employee is right there. Not that that made her hold back at all. You know, she. It's like the Mo Salah. Yeah, exactly. The mix zone. The awkward with the press officer with his phone out in the background. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, she and she is absolutely resolute in her stance. You know, she and because then as well, she was calling out Karen Hatchinov and Veronica Kudomatova for she alleges wearing the St.

48:56George symbol, which is like this Russian military insignia. Yeah, I mean, it's such a I mean, listen as well, because obviously when she was talking, she's very emotional. it's such an emotive subject i mean like her dad is fighting for the ukrainian army um her uh her flat back in kiev has they've been you know it's shaken because of drone strikes she's been left without water and all of this stuff she's got like all the only top ukrainian player that still lives in trains in ukraine i believe yeah i think that's right and and obviously has like all these players has lots of family and friends there.

49:35So, yeah, she is not holding back. And obviously, yeah, in January, she came to our attention both with her, you know, she played so brilliantly and so unusually, you know, with the Moonballs against Madison Keys, but then talked about how, you know, naming as well, because that's the thing as well, that often players will kind of talk in generality. She didn't. She talked about Sabalenka and she made some allegations about Sabalenka as well in respect of Lukashenko, the better Russian president. so this is not a story I don't think that's going to go away because I asked her about are you going to keep talking about this are you going to refuse to be silenced because she alleges that attempts have been made to do that and she basically says I can't do anything else I have to do this Does the WTA actually have those powers?

50:30to well what grounds do they have to fine her or disqualification like what clause of rules would that would that be i don't quite understand well that in their jurisdiction is there in their rule book there are rules about sort of calling out people specifically i mean there's actually if you read their rule book there's this quite like orwellian line which would obviously never be enforced because this is a rule that must be broken every tournament but it says a player shall not address criticism of a tournament sponsor player official the wta or the wta tour to the media or public all such complaints should be forwarded to the supervisor player relations or wta operations i mean isn't that extraordinary imagine if that was actually adhered to players would just would be getting would be would will be breaching that every tournament i mean we're here discussing a potential boycott but i guess you know more pertinently or more actually enforceable there is a bit um also in the heart also in the rule book talking about um yeah disparaging or being you know things that be harmful or prejudicial to against any person group or people tournament sponsor player official the wta the wta tour so So I think it's trying to stop people from singling other people out.

51:55Because if done in bad faith, obviously that would be pretty irresponsible if you had a leading player calling out a lesser ranked player and inciting a pile-on or worse. But yes, it is... I mean, they... Because obviously we put this to the WTA, because they're such serious allegations, and they didn't address the allegations specifically, but they do talk about how it is like an extremely delicate situation, which it is. Let's not pretend it's easy when, you know, no sport is as affected by the Russia-Ukraine war as tennis. I don't think even close. The fact that there are so many, especially on the WTA side, there are so many top women's players from Russia and from Ukraine and it's an individual sport and you have this moment at the end of each match where there's a handshake And so there's this kind of ready-made crucible for all these tensions to be exposed.

52:48And, you know, this is coming off the back of the Kostya Kandreva final. So it is extremely pertinent. And actually Svitolina was asked about Olenakova earlier today and whether she'd had much contact with her. And she said she hasn't really been able to fully engage with this story, but wants to and kind of understand more of what's going on. Yeah, I was pretty shocked to read that those believers that the WHA were able to pull in circumstances like this, honestly. But there we go. Yeah, heck of a story. That's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about the men. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into.

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54:42David Law: Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. quite a lot of illness and injury in this section of the show as well. So I hope you've enjoyed what we've had so far in illness and injury because that is the theme. In fact, the theme is, I don't know if this is a theme, but Matt has pointed out for us here in the agenda that the seeds three through six on the men's side all failed to win a match at this tournament. I mean, yeah, dropping like flies, apart from Yannick Sinner and Alexander Zverev, who seem on a collision course to meet in another thoroughly underwhelming final.

55:33Let's start, shall we, David, with the breaking news that a group chat has been renamed.

55:45David Law: yes this is a group chat that comprises katherine matt myself and katherine's brother math and used to be called uh al-charasmataz um and will be again in the future i believe yeah it's now been renamed dino soaring uh because of the exploits lined up for a long time Yeah, it happened about three hours ago, and it came off the back of Dino Prismic getting a backup win following his breakthrough result against Novak Djokovic. I mean, Dino Prismic has been on our radar for two and a half years, ever since he played Djokovic at the Australian Open, and really pushed him, and kind of just looked like a clone.

56:32David Law: He looked like one of Djokovic's first clones, one of the sort of people that has just very clearly admired him growing up. And he has indeed. He's idolized him. He's actually Croatian as opposed to Serbian. But he's got a similar build. He's got a similar kind of way of moving on the baseline, doing the sort of front-on, leg-splayed, defensive strokes. He's certainly developed a whiplash forehand. We've learned that over the last few days. And, I mean, after that incredible result or performance against Djokovic, which he ended up losing, I think it was very easy to get carried away and assume that this guy is already here and arrived.

57:18David Law: He was 18 at the time. And he's not been able to break through into the full ATP tour. I mean, a lot of that is injury-based. he's been very badly he's had terrible injuries I think he's been very badly inhibited but I also think he's his game wasn't wasn't actually ready I think it looked ready on the night but when you actually have seen it since it didn't really stand up and obviously not helped by the fact that his body was breaking down all the time suddenly he started qualifying for a lot of big tournaments you know he's been in that sort of ranking zone and if you look at his results throughout the year a lot of it is qualified, qualified, qualified might not have won many matches, but was getting into the draws.

58:00David Law: Suddenly he's made some progress in draws over the last month, and now he's beaten Djokovic. Djokovic's first match in a long time, and frankly looked in really ill health himself. He was actually sick on court, wasn't he? He was in a bad way after a very good first set for him. But he just got ground down, and then Prismic has gone and backed it up again today with a good win. So, you know, who knows what his future holds? But look, I'm a bit biased to the Croatians, having a Croatian wife and been waiting for a male player to come along who could do something from Croatia. And he certainly looks promising.

58:46I'm biased just because of the way he plays tennis. I freaking love watching the guy in spite of his head. head and facial hair. That is how much I love his tennis. Why don't you like his facial hair? I'm prepared to overlook all of his poor style choices. But, I mean, the backup win, and look, Ugo Umber on clay is, I mean, Ugo Umber on anything recently is no great shakes, but definitely on clay, no great shakes. But still, the backup win is not a bigger deal than the Djokovic win, but certainly tells me something significant beyond the Djokovic win because Djokovic was, I mean, was not OK in that match, was he, Charlie?

59:31There were lots of rumours circulating that he wasn't even going to take to the court. He had one of those kind of power outages that, I mean, was definitely circumstantial. I mean, he was clearly suffering with something. But we have also seen these from Novak Djokovic, haven't we? We saw a bit of one in the Australian Open final where he just suddenly... yeah yeah it's like someone's unplugged him and it does seem to seem like that happens quite dramatically to him these days i mean he is about to turn 39 right like he's about to turn 39 we've got absolutely no data to go on really have we on on where he's at ahead of Roland Garros and nor does he no and he's not going to play he's not going to do a Geneva like last year it was quite weird because i asked him that i said like do you think you will do another geneva or equivalent half expecting him to be like well i've just come off the court i don't know and he was like no so i said like why because obviously that worked pretty well last year and he just said like the decision's been made it's quite strange i mean given he's played this year even less or or no i guess the same wasn't it because he lost he just played madrid and went out in the first round or his first match and that did work pretty well for him last year i mean okay he lost but he played well.

1:00:50He was really good. I mean, he was brilliant against Verev in the quarters. And it was a straight sets win for Sinner, but it was a lot closer than that. Like it was a really good contest. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, how do you try and draw conclusions from this? Like, yes, obviously all logic says he's, by then he'll be 39. He's got no matches. That's not ideal, but he's still going to be my second favorite. He's fresh, Charlie. He's got no matches. Yeah, exactly. But it still wouldn't be a huge surprise if he got it together. Yeah. I mean, I guess, though, the worry is that he just gets one of these power outages earlier in the tournament and it's not something he can find a way through.

1:01:38And maybe if this had been at a major, somehow he would have taken sufficient painkillers or whatever to find a way through. But yeah, he wasn't able to do it. I mean, it was actually Sabalenka was then quite reminiscent because even though clearly, yes, Prismic was playing an ailing opponent, it's still bloody hard to put away someone who's so bloody minded and so good and so used to winning. And Prismic did really well, especially as like the atmosphere on court was, it was like Davis Cup style. I mean, it was so pro-Novak and he talked about that afterwards. you know obviously he's still he just he really appreciates that kind of love wherever he goes um so Prismich still did pretty well to to keep his composure and as you say Catherine backing it up how many times you've seen a player not doing it that that was really impressive again he you know he he feels pretty serious like he's he's not messing around well yeah I mean like I think it's it's hard not to feel things watching him play like he's got a lot about him he's got a lot of power i mean i know novak said that it was like playing a mirror when they played at the australian open that time i don't really see that so much like i can see yes there are elements but i feel like he's more explosive certainly than novak was at that age he's suddenly got that thing and i need to go back and watch the highlights of their australian open match to see if he had it generally to see how much he's developed in that time.

1:03:05But he's got the Alcaraz thing now of doing a different grunt for his really big forehands, just to let you know. That one was one of the really big ones, guys. That was from the special draw. And Djokovic did pick up on that. He said to him, apparently, Djokovic said he said to Prismic at the net, like, wow, your forehand has got a lot better from when we last played. And it does look that way. Yeah, he's exciting, I think. David, Art of Feast, on our injury list, I'm afraid. Retired hurt against Andrea Pellegrino, another Italian.

1:03:49Apparently really good because they all are. This was a real worry, though, for Art of Feast. It was instantly, you know, just so instantly looked like a problem. Went off court for a medical timeout, came back on, tried to continue playing. So obviously needed to stop. Mercifully did stop. Didn't try and play through it. He has given a statement afterwards saying it was pain in the hip. Needs to do some tests. Doesn't want to take any risks ahead of Ronald Garros. It is a worry.

1:04:27David Law: Yeah, I mean, this is far from a medical analysis, but I did not like the look of the look in his eye after the third game when he got broken again. And he just stood there, hands on hips, looking at his support team, his dad and his coach, Ivan Sinkush, Goran Ivanovic, was not there this week. and he just looked in a bit of shock and fear. He looked scared to me. What have I done? Because it's been too good to be true almost, his comeback and the results he's had and the manner in which his body has seemingly just stood up to it all without any problems whatsoever. I mean, I just wasn't expecting that.

1:05:21David Law: and look, this may just be, maybe he's felt a twinge and he's scared and he's sensibly just pulled out. That's the best case scenario. But he's having an MRI tomorrow. We'll find out then, I guess. And I remember that happening. What concerns me is that's what happened after he'd managed to beat Jaume Munar at Roland Garros in that incredible match and somehow got through it. And David went back and found our podcast title from that night, which was Artifice lights up Longland, but is he fucked? That's what it was, yeah. He didn't light up anything this time, but he might still be fucked. But the truth is that we can't know, but that's when we found out the severity of his injury.

1:06:13David Law: And we saw him once in eight months for two rounds of a tournament that he shouldn't have played in Canada later that year. And I just hope against hope. And I would for anybody. Obviously, Art of Feast is my favourite player. I definitely want him to be able to show what he can do at Rylan Garras, you know, fully fit. But it's scary to think that he might have another problem of that ilk. So let's just keep the fingers crossed that he hasn't. Men's tennis needs him. It really does, yeah. Thread bear is a tough scene if he's gone. Yeah, hips and backs, stress fractures in lower backs, hips. It's a really common twin set of injuries.

1:07:03This really worries me. Yeah, I mean, you look without him, with him now gone, obviously, from this tournament. And yeah, it's tough to find much intrigue or subplots really on the men's side with Sinner just feeling in a different league from everyone. You've given us one key Felix Orgelia scene, Charlie. Yeah, there was that. I mean, that was shaping up to be a classic. In all seriousness, I mean, that match had already been, they'd been made like three hours to get through two sets. I always think, God, if this goes to a decided, this could be one of the longest three-set matches basically ever played.

1:07:38It's the second time he's cramped this year. Felix really seems weird, isn't it? I mean, there's no question mark over him fitness-wise. And I'm always, you know, very keen to bang the drum of cramp very much not always being, or very often not being a fitness-related thing. But for somebody who's got no sort of particular history of cramping to suddenly be a cramper in these long physical matches is pretty bizarre. Just the weird and wacky world of Felix earlier seeing, Catherine. Always. It's just the rollercoaster ride of following the life and times of Felix. Lorenzo Muzzetti lit it up on the Foro Italico, but is he fucked?

1:08:20It was a hell of a match against Francisco de Sorundolo. Two straight sets, drama, crowds, like it was so much fun. but you had the sort of imposing presence of the Lorenzo Mazzetti heavily strapped thigh the whole time and his clearly worsening physical condition in this feeling that if he doesn't get it done in two, I don't think he's got a third set in him and I rather worry that he doesn't have a third match in him against Kasper Rude. I think he's on the mega worry list, I'm afraid. yeah and he was so he was really emotional at the end of the match and you know he said it was just the obviously being at home and and that kind of thing but you wonder how much that was a factor in it too but again just like killing any potential subplots because Mazzetti in Italy is a fun subplot they love him here he him on clay is just such a joy to watch but yeah how much longer does that story have to run here um and and then you worry for the french and i mean last year he you know it's easy to forget he led alcaraz by a set in the semi-final um and then his body gave out then just like it's in australia way yeah where he was two sets up against Novak.

1:09:42So, yeah, another play you just wish could stay healthy, but you do worry about the durability. I mean, I do think the clay court season as it is now, and Sinner maybe is making a mockery of this, but you just can't really play, go deep in all of the, or even play more than a few matches. If you want to play all of the 1 ,000s on the men's side, And look, Mazzetti did last year. He went deep in all of them and then his body just gave out. Like, it's basically impossible now. Yeah, and I mean, Yannick Sinnott is the exception. I mean, this is a guy that described, he said he, how did he phrase it?

1:10:28I put it in the group yesterday, David. He recovered during Madrid. That's how he put it. He said, yeah, I was really tired after, you know, he was asked about putting together the sequence of Masters 1000 wins and the change of surfaces and everything. And he said, yeah, I was really tired after the Sunshine Double and winning Monte Carlo, but I recovered during Madrid. So that, I think, tells you everything you need to know about men's tennis at the moment. Let's talk about Yannick Siddha, the one match of his we've seen so far. Three and four against Sebastian Ofna, incredibly efficient. She's got Alexi Popperin next, who is totally randomly beaten Matteo Berrettini and Jakub Menchik back to back.

1:11:15I don't understand Alexi Popperin at all. Darth Sinner is my absolute favourite Sinner. Why doesn't he wear black always? He should be the Johnny Cash of the tennis world. What are Nike playing at? Yeah, it looked great last night, I have to say. him on the main court, the Foro Italico evening match. It was a really cool vibe. I mean, his match would have, like, a big proportion of that match was taken up for stoppages because people in the crowd, I think that one of them was unwell and then there was another one. Like, that honestly added about, it must have been like 10 to 15 minutes to that match length.

1:11:58It was unbelievably comfortable. I mean it's not a whole lot to say is there? He's probably going to win this title and use the week to recover further When you look at the top half the whole half not even like a section the half it's so hard to make a case for anyone to win a set let alone beat him or even nearly win a set I mean, I'm not making a case for Hadar beating Sin. No, he's not. He's in the bottom half. But I'm looking for B plots, Charlie. Yeah, no, there's no, nothing like that. Nothing. Okay. Daniel Medvedev is in his half. He hasn't even said a match yet. So I was thinking like, yes, Medvedev, given they had that good match fairly recently.

1:12:51But on clay, I mean, Medvedev could play Kabali in the fourth round, which is a standalone thing, would be quite fun. I would quite enjoy that. which is probably where you've got to get your kicks somehow on the men's side. Just enjoy the matches even if they feel pretty inconsequential. Where are you getting your kicks, David?

1:13:13David Law: In the bottom half?

1:13:18David Law: No, it's extraordinary the level he's able to just produce and reproduce. and because it's so efficient it doesn't get the headlines really it just doesn't but my god he deserves all the credit in the world for for the way he's gone from what he was say four years ago to what he is now i mean he was a good player then you know he's a good really good player good prospect but the way he's turned himself from very good player to absolute champion an overwhelming favourite all the time. It's just something to behold. The only thing is, though, there is no reason why he might not get injured. I mean, I don't wish that on him, of course.

1:14:06David Law: Obviously, I don't wish that on him at all. But he's not immune to injury. Do we cancel men's tennis if he gets injured? Well, I mean, you know, if we end up having a boycott, we're going to be looking for different storylines, aren't we? I mean one thing I would say about him is I was marvelling last night some of his drop shots which have become a real feature of his game especially on the clay and you've got to set and that's what defined all the greats or has defined all the greats. Think of on the men's side more recently, Djokovic, Federer and Adal. They all made really big changes to their game.

1:14:42For Sinner to have done that already, and the fact that he literally went away after losing that US Open final, was like, I need to build more variety. I need to do more of what Carlos is doing. And here we are, and he is doing it. And he's doing really effectively. He's just done it. He got his goals and he became better. Yeah. How much talent have you got to have to do that? I so clearly remember that Miami final against Daniel Medvedev a few years ago, where he'd just watched Al Karaz beat Medvedev in the Indy, or I assume he'd watched it in the Indy-Miles final, where he just pulled his pants down with drop shots, exploiting his court position.

1:15:19It was a masterclass. And Sinner tried to do something similar, because it's such an obvious play. And he just wasn't very good at it. He was OK. He wasn't embarrassingly bad at it, but he just obviously wasn't a drop shot guy. He's a drop shot guy now. They're really good. It's amazing. He seems to have learned the instincts of when to play them, which is always the thing that I think is kind of least learnable, those instincts. Yeah, he's unreal. Should we end on some kicks? I reckon you both got some kicks from Hamad Majedovic against Joel Van Sackle. Were kicks had? Yeah. Yeah. That's a classic middle of a tournament, weekend evening, barnstormer, you know, two sets of fans going at it.

1:16:14Yeah, that's brilliant. But that's kind of what I mean. Like, you can still find those stories. Those things are great. it's just when it gets to the latter stages that you're like oh this is a real bummer because we know where this is going but earlier on in the tournament yeah you can get there I mean unbelievable that Miljadovic was able to come back and win that after like how narrowly he missed on that match point and then he goes and wins what's it 11 of the last 12 points of the match after kind of resetting having been broken trying to serve it out pretty amazing did Steph Curry night night celebration.

1:16:50You into that, David?

1:16:51David Law: Oh, yeah. I like the fact that he just looks at the crowd and just says, come on then, I'll take you all on. And he doesn't hide the fact that he's pissed off with things that are being said. He's fine. Have you seen the comments from Fonseca after the match? In Brazilian, but they've been translated. and I've checked and there just seemed to be a reliable translation. He's, I mean, criticised is probably a step too far, but kind of criticised, certainly the fans that were at that match last night. You know, he was asked about the vociferous support he gets that we love, you know, and I don't think I've ever seen Brazilian supporters do anything that I would consider kind of crossing the line.

1:17:45I didn't see every point of that match last night, but Fonseca said that they're not just hurting my opponent, they hurt me too. That's pretty bold comments. These were mentioned to me earlier, actually, because I thought of this in relation to Ayala, and I actually asked her about this earlier in the week, that sometimes, is it almost, and she didn't sort of agree necessarily, and it's a hard thing because you don't want to be like criticising your own supporters. With her I was saying can it sometimes kind of add a pressure and almost there almost be a discomfort when it's so partisan and you know that it's giving your opponent something to rail against.

1:18:28I often wonder if there's a bit of a locker room thing as well like oh you with all your fans Exactly, exactly. You haven't done anything but you've got all your fans out there for you have you. Totally. You know what tennis locker rooms are like right particularly atp ones like i i can imagine it's a bit of it's a bit of that well i can imagine i can imagine feeling a bit awkward about it because you know you have been elevated to a place where you you haven't yet fully justified and you didn't ask for that hype or attention and adulation and all of that or like cues around the block for your matches when you're only you know obviously they're high rank now but when you're ranked barely inside the world's top 100 Like that is just a bit of an uncomfortable dynamic.

1:19:14So I did think that was interesting. But then it's also something that most players would kill for, right? Of course, of course. If there is that energy towards them in the locker room, it probably partly comes out of jealousy. So to criticise it is, yeah, it's a tricky one, I think. It's a net positive, definitely. And I think this from Fonseca was a quite specific thing. You know, I don't think he's saying, I don't want loads of support. I think it's saying I don't want, I don't think it's great when it oversteps the mark. And there are probably times when it does. I don't know. I wasn't close enough to it to really be able to say.

1:19:49And it's always quite a fine line. But I think when it goes into the thing of like really getting at the opponent, I think that's when people start to feel a bit uncomfortable.

1:20:00David Law: Yeah. Especially if your opponent ends up playing better as a result. Then it is hurting you, isn't it? Well, I hope the Brazilian fans aren't put off because we have got to get our kicks where we can. That is the learning from today's pod. Charlie, who are your picks for the title from here? I feared you might ask me that. I mean, obviously, Senna on the men's. And on the women's, I'll go Ega. that would be fun wouldn't it going into a resurgent narrative wise David you have the right to pass because I'll be able to ask you on Thursday I think we're recording maybe Friday morning midweek pod anyway but you're welcome to give unsolicited predictions right now if you like fine I'll just leave Charlie out to dry I'll pass yeah you'll pass okay I mean you could you can take Yannick Sinner if you want You can just put a standing order in for the annexing of the next few weeks.

1:21:10Folks, that is it for today's podcast. Charlie, thank you so much for joining us from a hotel lobby in Rome. Absolute pleasure. It might be getting a bit rowdy. It's now, yeah, just as we finish recording. People are coming in. It's going to be a big Sunday night in Rome. All Arsenal fans. hello to our mascots Bodhi, Maisie and Roger to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and you definitely should check out Charlie's reporting from Rome in The Athletic and all the other brilliant stuff that they're writing about no shout outs because what is a shout out without Matt Roberts those will be back next episode which is David we're recording Thursday

1:22:00David Law: Friday morning UK time I believe Friday morning it is in my diary I promise I just haven't got my diary open because I'm devoting my attention to these two faces in front of me Charlie once again thank you we'll speak to you soon enjoy the rest of your time in Rome which I think is limited travelling back tomorrow yes I go back I fly home tomorrow okay so it's a one week trip thank you we will see you in Paris for chocolate moon yes very much looking forward to that I had a family member get in touch asking for details of the chocolate mousse purveyors in Paris. I hope you told them that... I told them to drop Matt Futterman's name.

1:22:46Yeah, genuinely. Which I think probably will his currency at Lutillu. I think so. The only risk would be they don't know him by name. They just know him by face. I said say American Matt. American tennis man. American tennis mat, yeah.

1:23:02David Law: I think he's been in touch to tell them not to sell any in the interim. Well, I was going to say that they do sometimes run out. That is really important to manage expectations because that is a crushing blow at the end of the long day. We have it hard. Last day of the Premier League season and a Champions League final aftermath to negotiate while in Paris. Don't, it's too much to deal with. See you there, Charlie. Can't wait. Thanks again. Thank you all for listening. We'll speak to you on Friday.

1:23:49Hi, all.

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