Rome - Svitolina, Sinner’s stunning title wins

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1:56Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast.

1:59Jannik Sinner: Not just any tennis podcast, but episode 1500 of the Tennis Podcast. Yannick Sinner might think he's the one setting records today, but he has got nothing on us. That is what we're here to talk about, though. Yannick Sinner, not ourselves, maybe a bit of ourselves, but we'll party later. Sinner, Svitolina and a side helping of Why on Earth Did Luciano Darderi Think That Walk On Was a Good Idea. David, Law is here. How are you doing, David?

2:33David Law: I'm all right. I'm trying to work out what's more surprising. Yannick Sinner winning all of these titles in a row us reaching 1500 episodes or us remembering that we would reached 1500 episodes and us not having to do it next time when it's 1501 like normal

2:52Jannik Sinner: i can't speak for how surprising it is that we've made it to 1500 but i definitely think yannick sinner doing anything successful is less surprising than me remembering any kind of significant milestone at the time of said milestone. So well done us. Matt Roberts is here. Hello, Matt. Hello.

3:17Catherine Whitaker: Yes, here for most of those 1 ,500. There's plenty in the archive without me, but I'm going to celebrate 1 ,500 as well.

3:30Jannik Sinner: Yeah, absolutely. As you should. Speaking of celebrating, Alina Svitolina has won her third Rome title, her first since 2018, won an absolutely thrilling final against Coco Goff 6-4, 6-7,

3:48Matt Roberts: 6-2, potentially the match of the year since the last match they played in Dubai. there are some other contenders for that we've we've been really treated on the WTA side of things so far this year I think but Svitolina Goff David come the end of the year I'd be surprised if we're not talking about that final as a contender for the match of the year I

4:10David Law: loved it I absolutely loved it yeah as we were getting towards the end of the second set which obviously culminated in such dramatic style with a tie break I did find myself thinking I don't think I've enjoyed two sets of tennis more than this all year. I'm very aware of recency bias. I'm particularly able to get involved in that kind of thing. I'm prone to it. But it had everything. Because I thought Coco Gauff was playing really well in that match. I thought she, I thought, I realised after about 15 minutes I wasn't thinking about her forehand. You know, I wasn't thinking about the stuff that usually goes wrong.

4:58David Law: I was just sort of watching her and enjoying her tactics, you know, and enjoying her watching her loop the forehand a lot and go toe-to-toe. And actually seemed to be really causing Svitolina quite a lot of problems in the early parts of the match with her tactics and with just the level of her play. and I felt like Svitolina was trying very hard to break down the forehand. Like, this is how you play Coco Goff. And Goff just, well, she didn't have a weakness on the forehand yesterday, really. And then you saw the best of Svitolina to take over that set. And I just loved the way they were just going back and forth and the rallies were lasting forever.

5:37David Law: I just think on paper, this is a really good match-up. These are two extremely athletic players, great competitors. They can win matches in different ways. And they were reacting to one another. Plan A wasn't working, so here comes Plan B from Svitolina. Goff has to dig in and somehow finds a way, the way she so often does. But then for Svitolina to take it over and win the whole thing. Wow. I mean, that's coming off the back of Rabakina win and Svantec win on clay. I mean, you could say Sabalenka. If you slotted Sabalenka in there as well, then you've got one of the all-time great runs to a title.

6:25David Law: And I'd say this was pretty much that. Fantastic.

6:29Matt Roberts: Yeah, it still is one of the great title runs, I think. Just that photo that Vicky flashed up just a few moments ago with Svitolina stretching on the backhand An amazing shot of her athleticism with just a huge hunk of empty seats behind her in the distance kind of sums up a lot of the things I felt about that final. Where on earth is everyone? I know it's cold. I know it's been raining, but whatever. It should have been full or certainly fuller than it was. that description from David Matt of if the two of them reacting to one another I think that's such a great point about this final it felt like a dance it felt like the two of them were in conversation with one another it felt like they were both in on this beautiful slightly messy work of art together and the tennis was an interaction on both sides of the net And that's what I loved about it.

7:32Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, me too. I thought Svitolina started a little bit passively in this match, just in those opening stages, whereas I thought Goff was absolutely sublime and could well have been 5-2 up rather than only 4-3 up. It was an absolutely huge, pivotal hold of serve from Svitolina there. and I think that game sort of changed everything in that in in the match really because I thought Goff was the better player to start with um and actually I was thinking that tennis how do you beat that tennis on a clay court it was such a lovely blend that Goff had going on you know like obviously impossible to pierce through in those opening stages she moved so well but also aggressive herself but really controlled with it the ground strokes were were really under control it was superb, but Svitolina realized she needed to change it.

8:25Catherine Whitaker: She needed to respond to what Goff was doing, and she did up the aggression, I thought. And then through the end of the first set, the start of the second set, I really thought Svitolina was on top, and she was the one pushing. And it was then Goff having to save all the break points in her service games at the start of that second set. But Goff then served for the second set, didn't she? And then Svitolina broke back, and we took it into a tiebreak. So exactly as you're describing, that push and pull, kept happening throughout but i think what has impressed me about svitolina is the way that she's been able to like resist the usual momentum of tennis matches you know when you know in that in in the match against fiontech when fiontech won that second set you're thinking okay svitolina might take over but svitolina finds a second wind and she did it here against golf as well there were there were a number of times when i was thinking okay surely now svitolina is fatigued or tired with all this tennis and her legs against the great players, but she would just respond to the moment and go again at the start of that third set, just as she did in the Dubai semi-final against Coco Gough as well.

9:34Catherine Whitaker: It took on a very similar arc, this match, to that one, with Gough winning that second set in a tie break, and you're thinking, OK, she's got the momentum now. But Svitolina, able to resist it and just up the aggression, I thought, even more, you know, and some crucial moments in those final stages saw her come into the net off of her ground stroke. She wouldn't just, you know, she wouldn't just hit it and watch it. She would hit it and come in and hit a dry volley away or something like that. It was absolutely sublime, really. And yeah, I was so impressed. And I think when we're thinking about what makes this such a great title run, I think for me, it's, you know, it's not just the ranking of those players that she's beaten.

10:17Catherine Whitaker: is the fact that they're all reigning Grand Slam champions as well. They're the players who've won the biggest titles over the last 12 months or so, and she's taken them out one after another. I think this is the best run of Alina Svitolina's career. I would put it even above the WTA finals win. I think the calibre of opponent she had to beat, I think this was it. And the tennis she did to do it, I don't know whether it's the crowning moment, because I'm sure we're going to have an in-the-mix Roland Garros chat in a moment. But up to now, I think it's the crowning moment of her career.

10:55Matt Roberts: And that's important, isn't it? Because you were talking on the last show, Matt, about all the... And look, we've been guilty of this as well. The chatter now around Svitolina and since her comeback, really, is this Svitolina 2.0 is a better tennis player than Svitolina 1.0 with her aggression and the weightier forehand. And yeah, that's very, very easy to say because it looks better, you know, and it looks more engaging and more explosive. But actually, I think that's pretty unfair to the career that she put together pre-maternity leave and the results that she had at that time. But now she's done something that in terms of the CV is at least an equivalence.

11:42Matt Roberts: And when you drill down into the details and the players that she's beaten here, as you've just said, potentially exceeds what she achieved before. Like this is something that really backs up the case for Alina Svitolina 2.0 being the better player.

11:59Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I think so, because I think, you know, I was probably on board with with the people saying that she's a better player. and certainly in terms of like a more well-rounded player. I think she's able to win differently now compared to before. She's able to win with her defence, but also her attack. And she didn't have that before. But I think, you know, it maybe wasn't quite as effective. You know, she just hadn't quite matched the results. And maybe that's just because the era has got tougher as well. And the opponents she's been playing are better. you know Sabalenka and Sviontek and Rabatkin is is maybe like a higher level than what Svitolina was going up against because Serena wasn't around like really super consistently in in that period where where Svitolina was doing a lot of her winning I think the tour was maybe not quite as strong even though Serena was was still around at the majors um but now she's matched the match the result as well and I think you would have to say this is both the most enjoyable tennis and the

13:01Matt Roberts: most effective tennis that she's played she's got um she's not just kind of got the the game of a of a big hitter now look she's not an arena sabalenka but she's added so much weight of shot particularly on the forehand side it's she's she's got the mentality of of a big hitter hasn't she and she's got that the crucial thing david of that acceptance of mistakes of like this is how I'm playing the the errors are priced in here so I like they're almost they're the cost of the winners and that's the the acceptance that you have to have always cite Petra Kvitova is like the master of that she would just she'd have a moment to be like I'm really annoyed I missed that and just be like but that is me that is how I do things let's move on and I feel like she's she's nailing that outlook on her game which is critical i yeah and i think it is one of the more

14:05David Law: dramatic departures from your natural dna of a tennis player that i can remember i think i think it was was it a year ago i went and sought out mary joe fernandez in the roland garrett media cafe we don't talk about that enough because she was another player who i remembered had done it she was a player who was a good player a look a very good player top 10 player but she wasn't about to go and beat Monica Seles or Steffi Graf with the game she'd got and suddenly she came out one off season and she was hurting those players with her forehand and and I I and I think it was when Svitolina was having a good run at Roland Garros and I and we were trying to understand this this shift and i i had a chance to speak to briefly andrew bettles her coach and and he said look you know it's not that she wasn't trying to do it before but it's just i think i mean i think the gist was she was relaxing more into it now she was using your words she was more accepting of missing she didn't used to even used to want to do that at all and the risk the the risk wasn't worth it in her in her in her sort of muscle memory almost the marriage of fernandez said i i i strictly went out and trained for that game but it wasn't until i accepted that it's okay to miss that i could really just let that game fly and it was quite it was interesting doorstepping her in the in the media cafe because i i really didn't know what she was going to say like a new segment coming of your way soon it was a bit out of it's a bit out of nowhere you know sort of she's standing there with her tray you know just about she's just had her dinner she's about to put it down you know and and i and i don't even know of her i've not i she sort of knows me by sight but you don't really know who i am and um and fair play to her she she engaged and i mean it was only five minutes but it was that's the only other player i can think of and it still is to this day i mean i think Andy Murray did it to some degree when when he started with Ivan Lendl you know just the realization I've got to hurt people with my forehand and that's the and that's the similarity for Svisalina because to me her backhand was always the the money shot for her still rock solid still moves brilliantly but she's now going out to hurt people the forehand she didn't do that at all before this transformation but but even even so I feel like she was she's been trying to do that for two or three years now, and she's done it successfully, but she's always run into Sabalenka.

16:48David Law: Now, there's still that big question mark, what happens if she ends up playing Sabalenka? You mentioned earlier to us today, she could probably do with being in the other half of the draw. That shot doesn't seem to have quite the same impact on her, but bloody hell, it worked against three of the best players in the world. Imagine where Svitolina's confidence must be right now. I mean, it must be through the roof.

17:13Matt Roberts: And the French treat are like one of their own, of course, because of who her husband is, who's going to be out there trying to steal the limelight. That is a joke. I love Gail Morfise. Imagine if they did the double. Just throwing that out there.

17:29David Law: Catherine's turned into me, Matt. This is great. Imagine if.

17:33Matt Roberts: Well, I was with my brother earlier and we were discussing kind of what would be like the most popular Grand Slam victories at Roland Garros, say. Because I think Alina Svitolina would have to be one of the most popular Grand Slam winners there's ever been.

17:51Jannik Sinner: And OK, that's plausible in a way that Guilherme Fiste winning Roland Garros isn't. But if he were to, that would also be up there

17:59David Law: with one of the most popular Grand Slam victories anyway.

18:03Matt Roberts: We're obviously going to come on to the mix big time. but just before we do staying very specifically on Svitolina for a moment she's up to seven in the race now oh no seven in the live rankings actually higher higher in the race but seven in the live rankings do you think she will qualify for the tour finals like how sort of yeah that was very fantastic

18:29Catherine Whitaker: I do yeah I think this has been such a strong start to the season I think she's in a great position already really in terms of the race. I think, and I see no reason why, okay, she might not win huge titles, but I think she's always been consistent. You know, consistency's always been her calling card. And I think that she will continue to be that through the season. And I think she's already racked up a good number of points. Yeah, I feel pretty, unless she gets injured and the season gets disrupted. Like if we're saying that she plays a full schedule between now and the end of the season, I think she definitely makes the WTA finals.

19:09Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I feel really sure about that.

19:12Matt Roberts: David? Oh, yeah.

19:15David Law: Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, she seems a lock for me for that. I think her sights are way higher than that now because she's just done everything in the game except win a Grand Slam title. and actually she hasn't reached a final either, has she? I was thinking that.

19:35Catherine Whitaker: Is she the best player not to have reached the major final maybe? I mean there's obviously a lot of players you can put in the conversation for not to have won a major title but I think she could well be the answer to that question. I also just wanted to, I forgot to mention this when talking about the match. like I think what impressed me the most was the tennis she played breakpoint down through the tournament there was this absolutely crazy stat that she faced 76 breakpoints in this tournament and saved 58 of them you know like the the number of times she was having to step to the line and against Fiontech I think she faced breakpoint in almost all of her service games you know it wasn't like she was absolutely cruising through she was having to fight in so many moments and to your point about her identity as a tennis player what what really impresses me is the way that she is now someone who plays that way in in those important moments as well you know it's not like it's not like she's trying to redefine herself as a player and doing it when it's easy at the start of a set you know like she's doing it on the biggest points in the biggest moments and accepting that she might make mistakes but knowing that it's the the best way for her to win those points like so often I think we see players like maybe talk a big game about oh I'm going to be more aggressive or whatever and they'll do it up to a point but can you do it in the biggest moments against the best players and Svitolina is emphatically answering that question you know at the moment And I think that is what is impressing me the most.

21:16Catherine Whitaker: Like, you know, and maybe taking that forward to Roland Garros, maybe we think, OK, that's a lot of break points to have to face. You know, like the margins were small in these matches and they probably all could have gone the other way. You know, Rabakina was a set in a breakup, I think, wasn't she? Like, and kind of cruising in that match. And maybe at Roland Garros, Rabakina closes that. I don't know. but I'm just impressed with the way Svitolina is sort of meeting the moment here and yeah it's so great to watch.

21:52Matt Roberts: In terms of the mix look I know she's in the mix right like that's not a that's not a discussion she's in the Roland Garros mix and you know in terms of the women's draw like saying you're in the Roland Garros mix is it's not the same as saying it in the men's right there's a lot of players in the mix so I'm just I want to try and drill down into how much of a contender we really think Elina Svitolina is at this Roland Garros because she has won Rome twice before and she didn't go and win Roland Garros either time then and we have just said potentially the competition is stiffer now than it was then so you know I don't want to be a potty pooper as I've said I think she'd be pretty much the most popular champion imaginable like I'm all aboard this train but I'm trying to get a real sense of how how likely we think it is that three weeks from now we'll be talking about Alina Svitolina Roland Garros champion because she does play well in Rome like yeah and she did I'm trying to remember what what did she do She didn't have bad Roland Garros's the two years.

23:06Matt Roberts: And in fact, 2018, the last time that she won Rome, she beat Halep in the final. And obviously Halep went on to win Roland Garros that year. So I don't know, make of that what you will.

23:21Catherine Whitaker: I think in recent years at Roland Garros, I think I'm right in saying she's lost to Sviontek, Sabalenka, I think maybe Rabatkin as well. Like it has, she's been, you know, she's been upset proof at that tournament. She's not lost to anyone you wouldn't have expected her to lose to, but she's reached that ceiling. And I think what we're saying now is she, to me, she's pushed through that ceiling against everyone apart from Sabalenka. You know, like I think, I think it would probably be a surprise to me if she beat Sabalenka. But I don't think it would be a surprise to me if she beat anyone else.

24:00Catherine Whitaker: I suppose that's kind of where I am. But I don't think it's like a huge shock if she beats Sabalenka. I mean, Sabalenka, we don't quite know her level of fitness, do we? And she's just taken a couple of unexpected losses. But she is upset proof at the slam, Sabalenka. She has been brilliant at getting to the latter stages. And you feel like she will be there if she's fit. So that is a barrier. but, you know, maybe someone else can take out Savalenka for her, I suppose. And I think that's possible. So she's absolutely in my mix, but I don't think she's, you know, if we've got tiers to the mix, I don't think she's quite at the top.

24:43Matt Roberts: Let's rank the mix. Who's your favourite right now for Roland Garros?

24:49David Law: To me, it's still Savalenka. and then I'd put the other three and then I'd put Svitolina even though she's just beaten the other three

24:57Matt Roberts: So the other three being Rabakina, Goff and Svantec Svantec, yeah

25:01David Law: I'd still put them ahead of Svitolina in a Roland Garros mix

25:05Matt Roberts: Because they've been there and done it

25:06David Law: But she's still in it I'd probably and they could all be number two to me I could have them equal

25:14Matt Roberts: Where would you put David Ukraine combined in a Roland Garros mix if I gave you the team of Svitolina and Kostiuk,

25:27Matt Roberts: would you take Svitolina and Kostiuk together over Rabakina?

25:35David Law: Yeah, probably would. Probably would. I wouldn't take them over Sabalenka, but I would take them over the... Dunno. Maybe, maybe yes. Maybe yes. Yeah, I think I would. Matt? There's a question mark also about Kostiuk's fitness, I think. She's just pulled out of the week before tournament and she didn't play Rome. She was wonderful in Madrid, but how is she? We don't know.

26:03Matt Roberts: Same goes to Sabalenka, though.

26:05David Law: Yeah.

26:06Matt Roberts: But then she's Aruna Sabalenka. Matt, I'm offering you Ukraine. What will you give me for Ukraine?

26:16Catherine Whitaker: i'll throw an olenicova in there for value i don't think i'm taking ukraine over savalenko sviontek or goff to me i think those three are a little bit ahead maybe even of rebakina just on just on the clay i think uh i think those three at the top of my mix and then i would probably put Rebecca in Ukraine pretty pretty level but honestly it's funny isn't it what like two weeks can do like Gostiuk has dropped in my in my mind going into Ronaldo

26:58Jannik Sinner: I mean without doing anything

27:00Catherine Whitaker: I know but I'm thinking okay well that was Madrid and Madrid is the outlier one and I know she's been good all season and to pin it down to just Madrid is unfair but But just trying to take it forward to Roland Garros, I'm not as convinced by the Kostiuk run as I am by the Svitolina run, if that makes sense. I think also Svitolina played a call over opponent that was, you know, higher than what Kostiuk did.

27:30Matt Roberts: Is Kostiuk... Hang on. Has Kostiuk dropped out of the mix?

27:34Catherine Whitaker: She might have done. Without playing any tennis. If she's fit, she's in the mix. Okay. I think I've probably dropped her out. Unbelievable.

27:47Matt Roberts: Is that the mix? Are we going deeper than that? Mukova, Anisimova. Throwing names out here.

27:55David Law: Anisimova.

27:55Catherine Whitaker: No, Anisimova is not the mix.

27:56Matt Roberts: Big injury query over Anisimova. No, it's just dropped Anisimova. It's barely played. Hasn't played. Yeah. Mboko, working with Wimfusset?

28:08David Law: I'd still have Androva in there. personally

28:13Matt Roberts: she's done a lot of winning Mirandreva hasn't she

28:16Catherine Whitaker: she has and Drava's a tough one yeah

28:21Matt Roberts: should we just have a very quick sort of focus on Coco Gauff absolutely I mean look she's obviously in all our mixes she's going to be defending the title she's kind of in the same situation she was 12 months ago she won that title off the back of a final run in Rome is she playing better tennis than she was 12 months ago going into Roland Garros like do you feel better about the Coco Goff game than you did 12 months ago

28:56David Law: quite similar I think yeah I think I feel quite similar I I just just a word on her in Rome I know we talked about her the other day but I just my my admiration for her is just through the roof. I just don't know how she can do it the way she does it. Just keep on coming back. She's obviously having a bit of a tough time of things. I hated seeing her in this final hitting herself on the head with a racket. But she just regroups and she comes back and she is playing well. I think it's easy to maybe think because she's lost to Svitolina who isn't one of the big three, if you like, that it would be very easy to dismiss that as, oh, Coco Goff's lost to somebody.

29:45David Law: But she was playing somebody in absolutely peak condition and form and in her favourite place. I think Goff would have beaten so many players in that final. I think I'd have fancied her chances against the other players she could have faced that Svitolina beat.

30:06David Law: and she's right there she's right i wouldn't you really wouldn't be surprised if she if she sort of came through at ronan garris like and peaked there the other thing is i'm very interested to see see people peaking you know and um because that's the one thing that we don't know has vitolina peaked now as she is she going to be a bit a bit fatigued you know when she gets out there we talked about

30:30Matt Roberts: that with Paolini last year didn't didn't be off the back of her I mean in particular with her because it was Italy and you know that was the biggest moment of her career but you know having to recover from that and play play a major and try and peak again is is extremely tough I think she's so experienced and so level-headed for Italy and I do back her to enjoy this win take a beat and get right back in the game. And fit. I mean, she's so fit, isn't she? So fit. I mean, the circus around the Monfils-Svitolina sort of household at Roland Garros, retiring Gail Monfils, Svitolina off the back of a Rome title.

31:17Like, yeah.

31:19Jannik Sinner: I mean, I assume someone's making a documentary about that. like everyone's making a documentary about everything now aren't they if they're not making a fly on the wall documentary about that then you know producers everywhere they've missed an opportunity would watch

31:37Catherine Whitaker: just to take it back to golf the thing to me is that a role on garros she's been quite tethered to igor sviontek over the last few years you know like there was a there There was a number of years there where it was Svantec who beat Coco Gauff at the French Open. Svantec was the problem. But that wasn't really a huge issue for Coco Gauff because kind of everyone was losing to Igor Svantec. Svantec was putting together this sort of all-time great career at the French Open. It didn't really tell you that Gauff was struggling at Roland Garros, you know. And then everyone last year thought that Sabalenka would be the biggest beneficiary of Igor Svantec's drop in form.

32:17Catherine Whitaker: And I think she was. She managed to beat Igor Fiontek in the semifinals. But it was actually Coco Gauff who ended up coming through and winning it, not having to face Igor Fiontek. And I just think that the other thing is that Gauff has turned that match up a little bit against Igor Fiontek, actually quite a lot in the last few years. Even if they were to meet at Roland Garros this year, I would feel very differently, I think, about that match up now than I had done in previous Roland Garros meetings between them. so I guess what I'm saying is that for a long time it felt like Svantec was a was a was a problem for Coco Gauff in terms of being able to win Roland Garros because of that matchup on that surface but Gauff actually has turned that matchup around and Iga Svantec is not the sure thing that she was for a number of years and no one else has beaten Coco Gauff at the French Open in a blooming long time, you know?

33:12Catherine Whitaker: Like, she's so hard to put away on Clay and in a major, you know? So I do think that Goff is right there. Even though she's lost this final, I think she's... Well, she said herself, didn't she? There's a lot I can take from this. She thought she was a little bit too passive in the big moments. But generally, I thought, like, she was trying to really take the positives out of this week. And, you know, the serve became a little bit of an issue again, didn't it at the end of that first set we saw some quite dramatic double faults which we hadn't seen in the in the past few matches it wasn't perfect by any means but I think it was it was it was pretty impressive and there was a lot of good tennis there from Goff and I think she can work her way in and yeah I absolutely have her among the favorites for Rodon Garros even though you know even though there are still some concerns about the game yeah I agree she's she's right

34:08Matt Roberts: there for me. It's so tough, isn't it? Because it feels ludicrous to look past Sabalenka and yet she doesn't have the Roland Garros record that Coco Gough has and she hasn't had the clay court season that any of these other players that are in the mix have had and she has an injury concern. I mean, it's just a mark of what a bankable, brilliant, consistent multi-dimensional player that she's become that in spite of all of those things she still if you had to pick a single player to be the favorite it would probably for most people not everybody but for most people be her but there are a lot of question marks around Irina Sabalenka particularly at this Grand Slam so it feels like as perfectly poised for narrative as it possibly could be the women's tournament.

35:05Matt Roberts: And thank goodness for that, because on the other side of the coin,

35:10Jannik Sinner: we've got the men. Just before we come on to talk about the men, Mira Andreva, I mentioned she's been doing a lot of winning, not just on the singles court, doubles court as well.

35:19Matt Roberts: She and Diana Schneider won the doubles title over Christina Bookshire and Nicole Melikar-Martinez in the final. That is it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about them.

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37:36That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio.

37:43Jannik Sinner: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. Time to talk about the men now. Yannick Sinner. My goodness me, Yannick Sinner.

37:52Matt Roberts: He beat Kasper Rood in the final 6-4, 6-4, becoming the second man and crucially the youngest man by seven years to complete what people call the Golden Masters.

38:06Jannik Sinner: But we don't like that. The full set of Masters 1000 titles.

38:12Catherine Whitaker: Why is it called the Golden Masters? I've never understood that. There's nothing golden about it.

38:19Jannik Sinner: No, I know. Golden means Olympics. But I think it's because you can't say slam because it's not, it's specifically not about the slams.

38:29Matt Roberts: I don't, I'm open to proposals, Matt, for a rival, for a rival name for it. I don't like Golden Masters either, but I've never heard any other proposals. So I invite proposals in the group chat. Master of Masters, Sumit is saying, that's the best so far.

38:48Jannik Sinner: Anyway, I was in the midst of giving Yannick Sinner his flowers. He's won them all in short.

38:57Matt Roberts: Djokovic, the only other man to have done it. He has also won six Masters 1000 titles in a row now. He's won 34 straight matches at Masters 1000 level. He is on a tour win streak overall of 29 consecutive victories. And he has swept the three clay court Masters 1000 events going into Roland Garros, Monte Carlo, Madrid and Rome, something that only Rafael Nadal did before him back in 2010. And quite honestly, David, I thought even with how brilliant and beyond the pack Yannick Sinner and when fit Carlos Alkraiz is, I thought with two week masters, the days of anybody doing the treble, no matter how great they are, I thought those days were gone.

39:54Matt Roberts: And Yannick Sinner's just gone and blooming done it. I mean I suppose

39:59David Law: I feel like if they're both there the chances reduce of you doing that but even so that's not fair to him is it really he can only beat people in front of him the point you're making is how the hell do you do this physically how do you go and win especially when it's Madrid and Rome over the two week period each and he was clearly feeling it you know he's fatigued he's tired And he's only got, what, a week until he's got to be in Paris trying to win the one Grand Slam title that he's never won before. I mean, it's such a huge ask. And he delivers yet again. And he delivers on a number of levels.

40:41David Law: One is he is incredibly mentally tough and composed. He's just got the most perfect temperament, really, I think, for an athlete. and then you add that to just somebody whose game just unpicks everybody else's, unless it's Alcaraz. And sometimes it unpicks his as well. But if you take him away, like he makes the others just look ordinary. He really, all of them. Nobody's even challenging him. Medvedev did. Medvedev did really well. he kind of took it into a bit of a messy tussle. He played on Sinner's fatigue. And he played bloody well, Medvedev, as well. Like, when he's really, really on, he can get close if Sinner's even just a bit tired or a bit off.

41:39David Law: But the way Sinner rebounded in that third set against Medvedev, I know he ended up with a rain delay as well, but I thought that was extraordinary. like feeling it the way he was and he just sort of waited it out until he got a burst of adrenaline and the crowd got involved and he and he had to sort of force that with a with some of his own shot making and then once the adrenaline hit it's like Medvedev must have wondered what the hell is this you know I thought I'd weathered you you know your first set your extraordinary I would say perfect first set that Sinner played against Medvedev and Medvedev it would have been very easy for Medvedev to have lost another like one and love or love and love there and he fought his way back he did all the things he needed to do to make it a good match and to actually give himself a chance of winning but for Sinner to like say alright second win coming now you know I'm ready I I'm not feeling good just kept on going until he could find the form today he went to a break of serve down immediately he's two love down and I thought Rude's playing a very clever match here, he's playing within himself, he's hitting a few drop shots, if he can make this physical maybe we've got a real final on our hands and I thought Rude played pretty well and Zinner wasn't at his best and yet he won 4-4 I mean I'm the one who made the case for the field didn't I last week And I still feel like when you get to Ronan Garros and you have the best of five sets and it looks like it's going to be pretty warm, sports can do things to make things interesting.

43:24David Law: We may have another Spitzeri situation on our hands at some point. But if other things are equal, this guy is head and shoulders above everybody else in terms of level.

43:38Matt Roberts: it was almost like the tennis god sent us that medvedev match to kind of guard against the the glib easy sort of dismissal of how easy it is the annex because he because he is so much better than everybody else and the way he goes about it and as you say david that temperament that is tailor-made for for sport it is very very easy and you know he's always telling us he told you in answer to a question in press, I think, at the US Open a couple of years ago. People think this is easy and it's really not. It's almost like the Medvedev match was there to show, this isn't easy, I'm doing it, but I'm not Superman here, I'm just a human being that happens to be brilliant at tennis and somehow gritting it out.

44:30But he sometimes does make it look easy.

44:34Matt Roberts: I mean, that is the truth.

44:37Catherine Whitaker: and the Medvedev match is kind of one of those where you might read it as, oh, there was some vulnerability there. Someone made it close. Or you might look at it and think, well, he was feeling like that, and he's got all this tennis in his legs, and he still came up with what he came up with, as David described at the start of that third set. I thought that little sequence was the most compelling tennis tennis I saw on the men's side this tournament, Sinner's resurgence from that second set at the start of the third was unbelievable and we saw a different Sinner in terms of the way he roared as he got the break I've not really seen him do that like a huge roar for a break of serve and then the shot that he hit to confirm the break and go 3-1 up, chasing down a Medvedev drop shot You could hear him breathing on his run to the ball, the heavy breathing he was doing.

45:38Catherine Whitaker: You could hear him put his racket down on the ground as he sort of used it to sort of help him run towards it. And then he hit this little gorgeous little forehand drop shot cross court. And shout out the camera director because they cut to Sinner. And he was arms aloft into the Rome floodlights with the crowd behind him giving him a standing ovation. It was like cinematic. and the way he had flipped that match from you know he was heaving and he was having his he was struggling physically and he flipped it to being able to just bring this incredible tennis it was remarkable and you're sort of thinking well he was on the ropes there and he produced that and i think it's gonna it's gonna take something for anyone in that field but without alcaraz to to push him to that extreme fair play Medvedev because he really did and when Medvedev gets a look in his eye and locks in like that it's a real treat but but Sinner responded to it and yeah I don't know I think the heat as it is at the moment sort of mid mid to mid 20 degrees I think is good for Yannick Sinner I think I think Roland Garros in that sort of heat is going to play quite quick and Sinner's ball strike is just going to be too much for anyone I think the reason Medvedev was able to turn that match around is because it came like sludge it was slow and Medvedev was able to like take him into the trenches and not even Sinner could hit winners on it and that kind of favoured Medvedev I think if Paris is lively I think that's only good news for Yannick Sinner.

47:19Catherine Whitaker: And the final thing I want to shout out is the four-all game in the final today in the first set against Kasper Rude. Three drop shots. What shot did Yannick Sinner go to? Three drop shots in a row. Two of them, he won the point on his own with them and one of them, Rude sort of miscontrolled the shot. But it was the drop shot. A key moment, four-all in that first set. Everyone's thinking Yannick Sinner's going to win, obviously. But it's pretty close this match. actually needs to make the breakthrough and it was the drop shot that did it and yeah like if you'd said to all these guys last year what's your worst nightmare they'd probably all said oh sinner developing a drop shot and variety because he's because he's beating us in all the other

48:02Jannik Sinner: ways becoming a serve bot and right sinner developing variety yeah totally and now cries

48:08Catherine Whitaker: his serve was you know like that the us open and he breathes through that tournament and sinner's got this drop shot like it's it's it's scary how he's how he's been able to just seamlessly improve that it's quite difficult for us to talk about whatever was going on physically with the annex

48:27Matt Roberts: center on friday night because we just don't know like we really just don't know all we've got to go on is what we could see with our eyes but what what we could see with our eyes was something that looked more than just a bloke that was tired. You know, like the full body shaking, the face of the deep, deep grimacing, the Darth Sinner look up to his box. You know, I don't know whether there's, I don't know whether he starts cramping and that causes anxiety. I don't know whether anxiety is part of it at all. There's an awful lot of, you know, pressure going on for him you know with all of this sort of it's not even expectation at this point it's just sort of assumption that he's gonna win like it's it's sort of beyond expectation you know being in Rome all of that I don't know if it's anxiety but it certainly looks like more than just I'm quite tired I'd like a leg rub please and yes I do think he he got treatment for cramp everyone gets treatment for cramp all you've got to do is not say it's cramp right just say oh my leg hurts a bit could I have could I see the physio we should like the rules should allow that right come on I like I know Medvedev complained about it it was almost like

49:46Jannik Sinner: his heart wasn't really in that complaint because it was like I think

49:50David Law: the way it is right now the way it is right now I do think they should yeah absolutely

49:56Catherine Whitaker: I mean Alcraz did it didn't he in the Australian against

50:00Jannik Sinner: I mean I think

50:02David Law: everybody does it it's like the courtside coaching you know we've got to a point where everybody's doing it and you either enforce it like properly and that's really difficult to do or you just just just let it happen just just put it in the rule book that you're allowed to do that

50:19Matt Roberts: yeah but yeah like i don't know what the question here is about sin or on because it's it's just it's so difficult because we don't know look like stress to me um yeah i i i felt i mean look he's

50:31David Law: very tired right and he's not being pushed very often and medirev was really pushing him and he was having to extend the limits in order to keep him off you know or to stay with him you know and and most natural thing in the world if it is i think uh and absolutely but it is it is for a

50:55Matt Roberts: For Roland Garros that looks like it's on lockdown and a field that is looking for chinks of light anywhere they can find it, it's a chink, right? It's a tiny, tiny chink. If you are, I don't know, I don't want to minimise the task of trying to make a match physical over best of five sets against a guy as good as Yannick Sinner. But if you, you know, if you are an Elliott Spitzeri, you know, I remember that press conference with him after that match. And he was like, I just back myself physically against anyone. I don't care how good they are. Like if it comes down to physicality, I'm backing myself.

51:35Matt Roberts: And there are a few out there like that. Cameron Norrie and his horse lungs, you know, like. It's just not getting that hot in Paris, though. Do you think it's the heat?

51:46Catherine Whitaker: I think in, I think the Spitzeri one was the heat.

51:49Matt Roberts: It was, but then we've got the sample of Friday, which had nothing to do with heat. So it can obviously happen.

51:59Catherine Whitaker: Yes, but I just don't think anyone's got the level to push it. And also, like, everyone's tired. You know, like, everyone's fatigued. They're all on the same level there. Like, I don't think anyone's... Oh, I don't know about that.

52:13David Law: Nobody's done what he's done the last four weeks.

52:16Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, but, OK, but who's, like, a contender? who's way fresher and or without physical concerns.

52:24Jannik Sinner: Who's a contender that's not Yannick Siddha?

52:26David Law: I mean, if he hasn't hurt his back, Artifee has just had two nice weeks off. But is he?

52:33Catherine Whitaker: I mean, I love Artifee, but I'm just not, I'm not thinking about him in terms of like, necessarily getting to the final.

52:42David Law: I know, but he might meet him in what, the fourth round?

52:46Catherine Whitaker: Possibly. Yeah. Like, comes down to the draw. But I don't know. I just think, like, Sinner is likely to cruise through his opening few matches.

52:58Jannik Sinner: He can do it in the opening rounds, can't he? He can use the time to recover.

53:04Catherine Whitaker: You know, and, like, Fiesta's never won a match in straight sets at a Grand Slam. Like, by the time he gets to Sinner, he may well have, I don't know, several sets of tennis in his legs already. You know, like, it's things like that. That's where Sinner's edge increases even more.

53:25Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it's just hard to make a case for anyone else.

53:30Matt Roberts: And 39-year-old Novak Djokovic can't make that play, right? He can't go into a match against Yannick Sinner going, OK, the play here is to make it as long and as physical. He's the only one who might have the level, though. He's the only one who might have the level. he might be able to do it level wise

53:48David Law: but he can't do a Medvedevan thing knock him off the court like he did in Australia but it's probably harder to do it where it is harder to do it in Paris

53:59Catherine Whitaker: and he was helped by the circumstances of his tournament he had a match off and a retirement and he was fresher than he would likely be in Paris by the time he gets to Sinner all of that matters I think

54:16Matt Roberts: heaviest favourite for a Grand Slam title since when

54:23David Law: well since one of Nadal's Nadal at a French I would say which one Nadal's all of them when did your last thing when Nadal was winning them routinely

54:34Matt Roberts: the last one was Zombie Foot

54:36David Law: sure but

54:37Matt Roberts: there's plenty to choose from

54:39Catherine Whitaker: I would say Nadal in 2017 would be my starting point there might have been one more recently than that but 2017 like he was unbelievable Federer wasn't playing the clay that's quite a lot of grand slams ago it is yeah it is yeah that's and this is you know he's the fact that we're even having a lot of Roland Garris's by

55:02Matt Roberts: then Sinner has never won this title and yet he's yeah the fact that oh the fact that we're putting

55:07David Law: him in the conversation in terms of being that level of favorite and the only other person we think of is probably Nadal maybe there's a Djokovic here and there it's probably a it's probably like a Djokovic it's probably like Australia yeah or even like a Wimbledon in that

55:24Catherine Whitaker: in that period just after Covid maybe you know where he played like a was he a Berrettini in the final was there anyone in that draw that we were really thinking is definitely going to beat

55:35David Law: Djokovic oh if it's other grand slams I think there's several Djokovic's I was thinking about Roland Garros alone I think you could probably come up with 10 tournaments where Djokovic felt like there's always been someone else

55:51Matt Roberts: I just feel like there's no one

55:56Matt Roberts: I just I just feel like

55:59David Law: there's always someone Catherine I know I know it's sport

56:05Matt Roberts: and unexpected things happen that's why we love it of course I know that I'm the foregone conclusion person. I'm not, you know, we learn from our mistakes. We move on. It's 13 years ago. But, you know, those things that happen in sport are unexpected. In terms of how, like, unexpected it would be, personally, for Yannick Sinner to not win this title, it's right up there for me. Not because Yannick Sinner is better than Nadal with his zombie foot or any of those Nadals, but because it's all relative, right? It's relative to the field. Like the picture of men's tennis at the moment, you know, with Mazzetti out, Djokovic being 39, Zverev posting chippy bullshit on Instagram.

56:56Matt Roberts: Like there's no one. There is no one.

57:03David Law: Hodda, feasts. These are my grasping at straws, guys.

57:08Matt Roberts: best of five sets we're talking about legs come on

57:11David Law: Hodda

57:11Matt Roberts: yeah Hodda's legs

57:13David Law: you'll do it early draw him into a shootout get him in round three

57:21Matt Roberts: David I know you're not as you're not as pessimistic about the sort of competitiveness of the men's tournament as I am but are you I'm sensing that you are maybe a bit more mix of one now than you were oh yeah a couple of weeks ago for sure

57:37David Law: For sure. Yeah. I thought it was going to be a real ask for Sinner to do what he's just done. After having won all the others. I thought, God, I mean, we're asking a lot here. And he can't pull out. It's unreal.

57:55Matt Roberts: It's unreal what he's done.

57:57David Law: I think he's amazing. What you actually said, both in terms of his level and the efficiency with which he beats people. And you use that word professional, you know. I mean, what a player this guy is, you know. He's just, he's got everything. He has got, and now the fact that he's added a drop shot, and it was the drop shot that broke Kasparud. I mean, I love that he went, that he called what he was going to do at the US Open last year. I am going to do this now. And he went and bloody did it. And he's won five Masters series in a row. We've only had five.

58:47Catherine Whitaker: And he won the one at the end of last year. And he won the ATP final.

58:52Matt Roberts: I mean, this is getting way ahead of ourselves. But do you think potentially winning all of them in a year? You know, the next Masters now is Canada, which is the one that nobody plays anymore. do you think that will you know you've got to get your kicks let's assume he completes the career slam in three weeks time you know they've got to

59:16Jannik Sinner: find goals to go for

59:18David Law: somewhere he's got to have a rest

59:21Catherine Whitaker: hasn't he? Do you think he'll play nothing on the grass leading up to Wimbledon this year he might do a Djokovic there

59:28Matt Roberts: I believe that that's the plan or Cahill has said his team have said that that's the plan yeah I do think he needs to be careful

59:36David Law: you know he's asking so much of himself physically mentally as well and he paid tribute to his physio trainer and osteopath so he's doing all the due diligence to try to keep that body in the best possible condition that it can be and look he's not playing massively grueling matches so far but i just you just wonder is there a point at which your body hits the wall doesn't look like it um because he does win so efficiently but i think

1:00:14Matt Roberts: some point skipping skipping canada makes you know i feel really sorry for canada because it doesn't make a lot of sense for many of the top top players but you've got to think as brilliant as he is how often are you going to find yourself in a position where you've won the first five like you're not going to get the chance to go for the year. I don't even know what to call it. If we don't know what to call the career masters,

1:00:41David Law: what do we call the... The calendar master. But look... You know what I mean? It kind of feels like if I'm going to go for this, it's now.

1:00:51Catherine Whitaker: I don't think he's going to...

1:00:53David Law: I don't think you'll give a shit, really, to be honest. I mean, no offence. They're good tournaments. They're great tournaments. some you know he's it's great what he's doing but i don't think you retire and think oh i won all i won all all of them in a year i don't think you do that but the same i don't think you think i

1:01:11Matt Roberts: won all of you know we talked about this sort of when we were previewing rome didn't we like it is an unreal achievement but it's not like the thing you dream of or the thing you he's not going to go near the top of his CV is it? No. Winning all the 1000s.

1:01:33Catherine Whitaker: I mean, I think being the youngest by seven years to do that is pretty high on this list of the people.

1:01:42Matt Roberts: I think what it says about you is big. I think the statement that makes about how incredible he is is huge. But I think as a like.

1:01:52David Law: It's not your dream. It's the slams and it's number one.

1:01:56Matt Roberts: It keeps you warm at night. and that you tell your grandchildren about, I don't think it's a thing in those contexts.

1:02:07Catherine Whitaker: I think it might, I think that record might last for a long time. Yeah. Doing that at 24. Like that is just, it's unbelievably quick to do that because, you know, there's, as you said, it asks so much of you. It asks you to play well on all the surfaces, indoors, outdoors, start of the season, middle of the season, end of the season. It's testing everything. And it's testing everything when it's not your priority, as we've said. You know, like people are going to be prioritizing the slams above these and they'll be pulling out of these events and all that kind of thing. I think this could last for a really long time, this record.

1:02:47And like the way that it's come into view is crazy.

1:02:52Catherine Whitaker: He was missing four this year. No one was thinking he would do that this year. He'd never won any of the clay court ones. He just swept them all in one go. Beating Alcaraz in the Monte Carlo final, I think we should definitely remember that. Right at the start of this clay court season, he got that win over Alcaraz. He won Indian Wells for the first time when Alcaraz was in the field. It's not like he's totally dodged Alcaraz on this sweep. But he has felt a bit like a football team managing fixture congestion and being in all the cups and trying to win the league. And therefore he's not going to play his best stuff all the time.

1:03:33Catherine Whitaker: Sometimes you just have to just, I think it was a bit subdued in the final today. He didn't have the sort of energy, he didn't have the sort of crisis that he had during the Medvedev match. but he was just slightly subdued and he timed his sort of he timed his ascension really well um but i think he's i think even even through winning rome i think he's still prioritizing roland garros you know what i mean i think like absolutely it's going to be better at

1:04:02David Law: roland garros than he was in rome put it this way he would he would have traded in all five of these masters 1000 titles this year to have had that australian open yeah Yeah, absolutely.

1:04:16Catherine Whitaker: Yes, but if he wins Roland Garros, he would take his season over Alcaraz's.

1:04:22Matt Roberts: Yes, of course.

1:04:24Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

1:04:25Matt Roberts: It is wild, isn't it, that we've had this golden generation of the big three slash four, the big four, but whichever. and maybe Alcaraz and or Sinner will break those records in terms of absolute numbers. Who knows? Only time will tell. But they're a long way from doing that yet. But it's like, what can we do that betters that all-time great generation? We'll do it all loads younger. Like, you know, Alcaraz this year doing the career slam becoming the youngest man to the career slam and Yannickson a youngest man by some distance to do this. Like, you know, it's tracking ahead of the golden generation curve, isn't it?

1:05:19Matt Roberts: In the early stages. Long way to go. And obviously Art of Feast, David is going to, you know, muscle into the party and steal some slams off them. Hopefully somebody will muscle into the party at some point, but... Can't see it. Can't see it for the foreseeable.

1:05:40Jannik Sinner: Quick, quick word for Luciano Darderi. I thought you were going to say Caspar Rood then.

1:05:51Jannik Sinner: Okay, right. Let's, okay. Caspar Rood. What do you want to say?

1:05:58Catherine Whitaker: well like good to see him back playing this sort of tennis again and I think he's I think his consistency on the clay is really notable he's reached a big final on the clay hasn't he several seasons in a row now and he's done it again in Rome here it was Madrid which he won last year I loved his speech like the mentioning football in Italy, risking his, I felt like he was sort of risking his life by cracking a joke about how bad Italy are at football at the moment, but he did it, he did it so well, he like bigged up their tennis, he was like, I want to shout out Italian tennis at the moment, you guys are producing so many players, not just Yannick, and then he was like, it's not going quite so well on the football, is it?

1:06:42Catherine Whitaker: You guys lost to Norway, and we should be able to crack jokes about that, I thought that was, I thought that was great from Rude. Yeah, it was. And, yeah, like, we've said it, but he just wants to be on the other side of the draw. Like, that's it. And if he is, he's right there. Yeah, right there for the final. Totally. And, like, Kasper Rude, four Grandstand finals? That would be wild. And I feel like he's got back his identity a little bit on the clay. I felt like he was really, as David said, was making the point that he was playing intelligently using the drop shot, but I felt like through a lot of the tournament, it was a little bit more bread and butter in terms of really going after the forehand again and using that as a real weapon, and that's his game.

1:07:31Catherine Whitaker: And I felt like he maybe strayed away from it a little bit, but it looked really good this week. Okay, Darderi now.

1:07:44Jannik Sinner: Well, Well, Casper-Reed's victim in the semifinal, 6-1, 6-1. If you haven't seen it, Luciano Darderi obviously had the week of his life reaching the semifinal, the style in which he did it, you know, that victory over Alexander Zverev, got a bit of swagger about him, you know, took the crowd with him. He was one of the best shows in town this week in Rome. And he decided to lean into that for this semifinal. And they do, you know, they've really ramped up Rome, the staging, the theatre and opera of what they do. They now play a little jingle, little sort of violin jingle when it's break point or game point.

1:08:31Jannik Sinner: Not sure that works, but I applaud, you know, I applaud them trying to make things theatrical. and they do the same with the walk-ons and they've got the big theatrical, the trophies being walked out onto the court and the camera in the corridor tracking the trophies being walked out. Anyway, so Luciano Darderi thought, yeah, I can go with this. And as he's announced onto court, he emerges from the tunnel

1:08:55Matt Roberts: with the adorable mascot there waiting for him. So the two kids stand on either side of the tunnel and Casparudi has already come out, taken the mascot's hand, walked out onto the court and the mascots are kids from the Make-A-Wish Foundation, I think.

1:09:12Jannik Sinner: So it's a really big deal for them. And Luciano Darderi swaggers out onto the centre court in Rome wearing these statement sunglasses, shall we call them. The mascot is there waiting. Darderi swaggers past him, failing to notice his outstretched hand onto the court, takes the applause of the crowd, loses 6-1, 6-1. I really, what a photo that is. Well done, Vicky. I have pendulum swung on this so much from one end of it being, you know, well, we want personalities in tennis and we don't want people to just be totally identikit, sanitised, uber professional, media trained bores and sometimes that means doing things that make you look a bit silly and we shouldn't you know, we shouldn't make that worse and be outraged about it in the way that people on the internet like to be and you know, I keep hearing about how Gen Z don't want to go to pubs anymore because they're afraid of being filmed, being drunk and having a good time and ending up on the internet you know like poor old Luciano Darderi was just trying to have a good time and now he's on the internet ignoring a child from the Make-A-Wish Foundation you know like it's gone really badly for him but on the other hand he did look like an absolute tit and I could have told him he was gonna look like an absolute tit you know

1:10:54David Law: as I found in my life and as I'm sure my son is finding in his life you kind of have to make your own mistakes and learn from them yeah

1:11:07Jannik Sinner: it was a mistake though wasn't it

1:11:10David Law: yes probably was I mean I just I don't want to remember Luciano D 'Aderi's tournament for that. I mean, you know. I don't want to either, but I fear. I won't. Honestly, I won't. I mean, I'm not that bothered.

1:11:30Jannik Sinner: I think I will.

1:11:31David Law: I mean, I feel bad for the kid. I feel bad for the kid. I hope they can make that up. I don't care that he wore sunglasses. You know, I think he was... When I think of what he did against Hodah, you know, take aside what he did against Varev, that match against Hodah, when he lost the second set. And it's, what, one in the morning. It's 1.30 in the morning. And we've had a bloody smoke delay. It was like a smoke delay night. Sure was. You know, all this stuff that happened. And that he still won that. And went further than he's ever been before at his own tournament. You know, his own Masters 1000 tournament.

1:12:11David Law: I think he was fantastic. He was. There was a moment towards the end of the match where somebody heckled him in the crowd, you know, and basically said, we've paid money for this. And he was like one and four, six, one, four, one down or whatever. And he offered his racket to them as if to say, come on, you show me how it's done, mate. I don't know. I just, I don't, I don't think, like I say, I feel sorry for the kid and that's unfortunate. It's not a big deal. I think, I think the kid was Yannick Sinner's mascot today. Okay, well, that's a good move. Yeah, I believe so.

1:12:52So, Matt, any thoughts? If he came to you and said, Matt, I value your opinion.

1:12:58Jannik Sinner: You're a stylish guy. You've got good judgment. I'm thinking of doing this for the match today. What would you have said?

1:13:08Catherine Whitaker: I'd have said no. I feel like it was slightly giving not taking it seriously and it was like the biggest match of his life maybe he was trying to like maybe it was a way to try and make himself feel relaxed because he knew he was stressed out probably because it was a big match well that didn't work did it he played very, he was nervous wasn't he could tell he was nervous during the match he never really got the feel on the ball even after the rain delay It was a terrible shame that he missed the mascot. He looked awful for that. But it was a genuine, innocent mistake, I think. And we shouldn't judge his character.

1:13:50Catherine Whitaker: His character.

1:13:52David Law: I think I've become a bit of a Dardary guy for the overall week. So I may not be a reliable witness. I'm going to be looking out for him in Paris.

1:14:05Jannik Sinner: David Law supports shunning of Make-A-Wish children. That's the Daily Express headline you'll be seeing tomorrow. Zero shit given by Law.

1:14:18David Law: I mean, I am a bit worried about how much she's got left in the tank, I must say. You know, there's some players that I think could be feeling the effects.

1:14:26Jannik Sinner: It's giving Pete too soon, isn't it? Or not too soon, because, you know, for where he's at in his career, I think it's OK for Rome to be the peak.

1:14:40I'm not necessarily predicting a big Roland Garros for Luciano Darderi. But as ever, it is all about the draw. We'll find out at the Orangerie. Absolute scenes in the men's doubles final as Simone Bolelli and Andrea Vavasori won the title. In a match tie-break, they beat Marcel Grenoilles and Horacio Zabaios. Grunos and Zabaios are just evergreen, aren't they? I feel like they're going to be playing forever.

1:15:11Jannik Sinner: I'm fun, Ellie. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, Vavisori is really bringing the average age of that set of finalists down.

1:15:22Catherine Whitaker: They're the first all-Italian men's pair to win Rome in the Open Era. and you have to go back to 1960 for the last time when an Italian men's pair won Rome and that was Pietrangeli and Sirola and they shared the title in 1960. The final was abandoned. So I think they're the first all-Italian men's pair to win the title outright in the tournament's history.

1:15:57David Law: but Lily's got nearly as he's got nearly as much grey hair as me 40 years

1:16:06Jannik Sinner: and thank you Matt for that little segue into promo if you'd like to know more about Nicola Piatrangeli he is the focus of our next episode of Tennis Relived for Friends of the Tennis Podcast we're recording it on Tuesday it'll be up on Tuesday no reason to hang around with that

1:16:25Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I'll get editing that straight away.

1:16:29Jannik Sinner: I didn't want to commit you to that live.

1:16:32Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.

1:16:33Jannik Sinner: Yeah, just wanted to check your social schedule before I committed you to that. But yeah, Matt will edit it immediately. And that will be available on Tuesday afternoon for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. So if you'd like to become a friend and get access to that and all of our bonus content, ad-free listening, The Barge, if you're enjoying Hannah's work in the chat tonight, the barge is where to find more hannah and let me tell you more hannah wilkes in your life is uh is a life enhancing thing so the link to become a friend of the tennis podcast as always is in our show notes uh that is it for part two we'll be back in part three to have a look ahead to

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1:18:25Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast. What do we have this week? We have a WTA 500 in Strasbourg and they have a good field there. We've got Victoria Mboko, who, as I mentioned earlier, has confirmed that she's now working with Wim Fissett. We have the returning Lois Boisson, Leila Fernandez, Clara Towson, Madison Keyes, although she is a big injury question mark at the moment. Madison Keyes, Eva Jovic, Alexandra Ayala and Katerina Alexandrova. They're all in the draw in Strasbourg, as is Emma Raducanu, who has confirmed that she is formally working with Andrew Richardson. And we reported a couple of weeks ago that we had sources saying that she had been practicing with him in Spain.

1:19:14Well, she has now confirmed that that arrangement is is a formal one. And she's back being coached by the guy that coached her to the 2021 US Open title and that she controversially split with very soon after that. This is another one that I have very, very complicated, mixed feelings about. Like I have very good feelings about him as a coach, his energy, her turning to that. I feel good about that. But I also feel a little bit sad about it. I feel like you can't go home again, you know, you can't be 18 again. You can't bottle what you had in 2018. And it's the most human and related in 2021 rather.

1:19:58And it's the most human and relatable thing in the world for her to want to try and recapture that. but I fear it's impossible.

1:20:10And, yeah, I don't know. It makes me feel a lot of things.

1:20:14David Law: I'm optimistic about it because I don't think she is trying to bottle or go back to what was 2021, but I do think she's realising that he's got the goods, like he's a good character to help her where where she is now and I think it's I think I think it's the best possible choice she could have made yeah I really hope so yeah I I I think I agree on a on a coaching level um yes Hannah in the chat who says it's like Rory going back to Dean in her second year at Yale. Only the real ones would understand that reference, but it is an excellent one. Who are these people? Gilmore Girls, David. Gotcha.

1:21:06Jannik Sinner: What are the chances that David ever watches Gilmore Girls?

1:21:09David Law: I'll check in with my daughter. She's seen it.

1:21:12Jannik Sinner: Has she? She's a Gilmore Girls gal. Oh. We have a WTA 250 in Rabat as well. Janice Chen, Jessica Boothas-Monero are the top two seeds. We have an ATP 500 this week in Hamburg. Felix Auger-Aliassime, Francis Tiafo, Flavio Caboli, Karen Hashanov, Luciano Darderi, Alex de Minot, Tommy Paul, Ben Shelton are the seeds there. A lot of quite decent names looking for a bit of form ahead of Roland Garros in the field there. Maybe some slightly bigger names than would ordinarily play the week before a slam. I don't know. Maybe. possibly. De Menor faces Francisco Surundolo in round one, that's about as tough as a round one draw gets on clay I'd say.

1:22:00Fonseca withdrew ahead of this with a wrist injury, says it's minor but I hear wrist and I worry so yeah we'll keep an eye on that you've got Alejandro Davidovic-Fakina Jakub Menchik, Zizou Bergz and Terence Atman all in the draw there and we also have an ATP 250 in Geneva this week where Taylor Fritz returns as the top seed. You've got Giovanni Pescu-Perikan versus Stefanos Sittapass in round one. You've got Stan Wawrinka, Kam Norrie, Lernity and Kasper Rood. Wonder if he will stick to the plan and play that. And Alexander Bublik all in the draw in Geneva. French Open qualifying starts tomorrow.

1:22:41I'll be watching Joanna Garland first on the schedule. My gal, my gal Jo. you've also got Sloane Stevens in qualifying, David Goffin Grigel Dimitrov who is unseeded in French Open qualifying, Dan Evans Coleman Wong and Lulu Sun all ones to look out for and I know people will be going to French Open qualifying this week, it is a great ticket to have so do have fun if you are going and go and cheer for Dan Evans if you're a Brit because I don't know how that's going to go for him, but we wish him well. As I said, in terms of our plans, we have Nicola Petrangeli for Tennis Relived on Tuesday and our daily shows for Roland Garros start on Thursday after the draw at the Orangery.

1:23:39We're travelling out to Paris on Wednesday and the first show is on Thursday. Levels of excitement, Matt, about the Orangery. Has an outfit been picked?

1:23:52Catherine Whitaker: No, it hasn't, actually. It's been a hectic week, but, you know, I will get that sorted. 10 out of 10. Like, love the Orangery. 2pm, I learnt today that the draw is on Thursday, local time. They're prioritising lunch. We appreciate that. Absolutely. I'm going to try and make sure we get there a little bit earlier this year so we're a little bit nearer the front. I feel like the last couple of years we've been a little bit far back, haven't we? We're going to be near the front and we're going to be near lots of French people so we get the ooh-la-la's. That's the experience we want.

1:24:28Jannik Sinner: A real close-up view with whatever non-tennis athlete is there that I can't identify. Can't wait. We have a mascot for this episode. Oh, it's Prince Herbie. owned by Kelly Grayson. Herbie is a two-year-old cream-coloured golden retriever. He is a lover of the highest order, says Kelly. He prefers to have constant skin-to-fur contact with whatever human is available, which is quite nice since his coat is like silk. I can see that from this photo. He happily chases balls but refuses to surrender them. Of all of his many toys, his stuffed duck is by far his favourite. He adores his litter mate who lives nearby and the two of them still wrestle the same way they did as pups.

1:25:21They inevitably get so tired they have to continue to play from prone positions. He is super gentle with my three-year-old granddaughter and she is learning to boss him around which seems to come quite naturally to her. Honestly, I've had dogs my whole life and thought I'd never get over the loss of my greatest Swiss mountain dog. But Herbie has won my heart for sure. That is absolutely beautiful, Kelly. And I'm sure that is something that a lot of our listeners can relate to as well. What a beautiful, regal, lovely boy. So thank you, Kelly. And thank you, Prince Herbie, for being our mascot for today's episode.

1:26:01Hello to our mascots. Hello, Bodie. Hello, Maisie. And hello, Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, let's have some shout outs.

1:26:15Catherine Whitaker: We have Donna Shepard. Hello, Donna. Hi, Donna. Donna says, easy one, Donna Vekic. Donna says, I'm a born Canadian. However, I've lived my adult life in several African countries, working in the field of wildlife conservation. I'm writing to you now from Kenya. Wow. Did she list any further African countries? No, but lots of animals. Oh, yeah. Which will probably interest you. I have three dogs and ten chickens, Donna says. Wow.

1:27:00Jannik Sinner: Mega. I love it. Yeah, fantastic. What a life Donna is leading in Kenya. Brilliant. Love that. Thank you, Donna. We don't get many Donnas. Potentially our first Donna.

1:27:18Catherine Whitaker: We also have Nigel and Sue Jennings who are sending a shout out for their son, Neil Jennings. Oh, hello, Nigel, Sue, and most importantly, Neil.

1:27:33Jannik Sinner: and no Barry related cock-ups this time you were very clear with your wording there Matt

1:27:42Catherine Whitaker: Nigel and Sue uh say that Neil like Neil Fraser same church different pew or Neil Broad but that Neil is actually named after uh Neil Armstrong and Neil Diamond and Neil was originally from Northampton but now lives in Wimbledon his dream address and he took Nigel and Sue to the US Open last year to complete the Fan Slam So all three of them have completed the Fan Slam? I think definitely Nigel and Sue not sure about Neil Congratulations Nigel and Sue Like Neil Svink? We have that. Neil Skubsky. Nigel Sears. Nigel Sears. Sue Barker. Very good. My mum's a big Neil Diamond fan. I think I remember my mum and dad going to a Neil Diamond concert and it not going great.

1:28:44There was some lateness involved. Things were tense afterwards. Anyway, it wasn't Neil Diamond's fault.

1:28:54Catherine Whitaker: And speaking of your dad, We have David Whittaker. Hooray!

1:29:01Jannik Sinner: I think he's here live. He was certainly in the chat earlier. I saw him voting with gusto.

1:29:09Of course.

1:29:09Jannik Sinner: Oh, Dad, I've just dragged you for your Neil Diamond experience. Well, I love my dad.

1:29:17Catherine Whitaker: Do you want to know what he's written? I'm biased. For his little blurb?

1:29:21Jannik Sinner: Yes, please.

1:29:22Catherine Whitaker: He says, my middle name is Ashley. which ought to prompt some tennis associations.

1:29:33Cooper?

1:29:34David Law: Ashley Cooper.

1:29:36Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

1:29:37Matt Roberts: Yeah, my dad... Hall of Fame member. His middle name is Ashley because my gran's favourite book was Gone With The Wind. I think a war was lost with my grandpa about wanting to name my dad sort of Rhett or... All similar. Hang on, no. Is David a character? No, Ashley is a character in Gone With The Wind. Correct. There we go. Ashley Harkle Road. You were Gone With The Wind guy, David.

1:30:07David Law: Yeah. Clark Gable and all that. Ah. Wow.

1:30:14Jannik Sinner: Yes.

1:30:15David Law: Why are we surprised? Ashley Barty.

1:30:19Jannik Sinner: Ashley Barty. There we go. My dad hasn't popped up in the chat. I'm worried that he's gone to bed. are you still with us dad potentially not but if he if he's missed this I'll encourage him to get it on catch up love you dad thank you for being a friend of the tennis podcast if you'd like to become a friend as I said the link is in our show notes we'll be back oh my dad's popped up hello dad he just says yes

1:30:48Jannik Sinner: man a few words we will be back on Thursday we'll be back on Tuesday for friends we'll be back on Thursday for everyone else and I encourage you to check out our Instagram content because I will document our travels to Paris I will document everything that Matt and David will allow me to document if you want behind the scenes at the tennis podcast does Paris then our Instagram at the tennis podcast is the place to find that. Thank you all for listening. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will speak to you on Thursday from Paris.

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