Rune’s horror injury overshadows end-of-season race

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1:26Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is Monday morning. We are all present and correct here to talk about tennis. David in a screamingly vibrant lime green Seattle Seahawks hoodie. It's jumping out of my screen, David.

1:46David Law: Yeah, well, after a live Q &A show on YouTube for friends a few nights ago, in which I promised to be wearing my Disco David outfit, which even suggested somewhere that there might be sequins involved. I realised I didn't have one of those. And also, the Seahawks are playing in Monday Night Football tonight. So I thought, OK, I've got about 12 items of merchandise from the Seahawks. let's get the brightest one so here i am i i dare say you've succeeded david yeah it was a real

2:25Matt Roberts: sort of jolt of caffeine through my through my laptop when you when you when you popped up uh i like it uh how are the seahawks doing better or worse than fulham

2:38David Law: better to be honest yeah i'm sorry matt but that i don't know whether the how the how fulham are getting on versus how the Buffalo Bills are getting on. But yeah, Seahawks are 4-2 and going in the right direction and Super Bowl bound.

2:54Matt Roberts: Matt, Super Bowl bound for Fulham FC?

2:57Catherine Whitaker: No, neither of my teams are doing particularly well at the moment. The Bills have lost two in a row. Fulham have lost three in a row. It's a bit of a tough scene right now, but things are going to get better. Is it a Matt Roberts curse? Fulham only lost 1-0 to the league leaders so not awful No points for not awful We've got a bit of a tennis injury crisis at the moment like everyone's injured except for us it's the start of the season rather than the end of the season so it's rather problematic for us

3:36Matt Roberts: Wishing all of your respective teams much luck while my team languishes in League One. You should all be checking your privilege, quite frankly. Right, on to tennis. And let's start, shall we, as much as I'd like to start in Almaty with Daniel Medvedev and Corentin Moutet's fancy outfits. Let's start in Ningbo and the WTA 500 event there and the race to the WTA finals, which is approaching the finish line. And Elena Rabachner took a big stride towards the finish line and towards the WTA finals with a title in Ningbo, a victory over Ekaterina Alexandrova in the final. 3-6, 6-love, 6-2. She beat Jasmine Paolini in the semifinals.

4:35Matt Roberts: Paulini, though, by having that run to the semifinals, has secured her qualification for the WTA finals. Rabatkinner will qualify if she reaches the Tokyo semifinals this week. So she has to keep going in her quest. And it really is a long old slog at this time of the season. If you're trying desperately to haul yourself over that finish line, I mean, Lorenzo Mazzetti talked about it this week in one of his on-court interviews. He's trying to do the same, but with the ATP finals. And he said, I'm dead, basically. I'm absolutely out on my feet, but I'm just desperately trying to get there. And that is the situation that Elena Rabatkinner is in.

5:23Matt Roberts: And she's put herself in the driving seat, David, crucially here.

5:32David Law: Yeah, it's actually pretty complicated to look at as a sort of list of standings. I'm grateful to Matt for really paraphrasing it down to just semifinals will get Rebecca there. because when you look at the standing, she's only sort of 20 points behind Paolini and she's only 15 points behind Andreeva. But there's a good briefing. If you want the full breakdown, go to the Monday morning briefing that the Athletic have done where they've really broken down why Rybakkena needs to reach the semifinals to add to her total because you've got to play a certain number of tournaments that count to your end of season position.

6:17David Law: But just in terms of what Rabacchina did last week, got a lot of respect for it because it is tough at this time of year. You've just referenced how Lorenzo Mazzetti's feeling. We've got Mira Andreva, who's actually not playing this week, and I'm pretty relieved. I mean, you would understand if this is a player who hasn't managed to get to this end-of-year finals yet, and this would be a massive deal for Andreeva to get to the finals on paper. But the thing is, she looks gone. You know, the last time I saw Andreeva play, every few points she was tearful, and you could feel like she's just hanging on, hanging on to her nerves, and as though the season has just gone on too long, She had this wonderful spring.

7:11David Law: She's had many, many great moments that have got her into this position where she could reach the eight in Riyadh. And it just looks like there's nothing left. I don't know the reasons why she hasn't played this week and when maybe she might have done. But contrast that to Rybakina, who I'm sure is tired, but her and Alexandrova, the way they were able to just dig in and produce a final. You know, when they must be so tired, it has been a long season. And this was a really gruelling week generally for Rybakina. I was watching her against Diana Yastrzemska earlier in the tournament as well. And there were loads of moments where she could have sort of checked out a little bit herself.

7:54David Law: And there were several moments when I thought, I don't see her going all the way. And then she faces Paolini, she wins that. I think Paolini, by that point, she knew she'd done enough. and maybe there's a little less in the tank there. But even so, Rebecca has still got the game. She's trying to find the aura, I feel, at the moment. And you probably only do that by doing what she's doing, winning loads of matches, however you can, and giving herself a chance to get to the finals.

8:25Matt Roberts: Yeah, just on Andreeva choosing not to play this week, well, we assume choosing not to play this week. We don't know the reason. Nobody seems to know the reason. And it's worth pointing out that she is Russian. It can be harder for Russian people, players, to get visas for places. Certainly at last minute, she wouldn't have known whether she was necessarily going to enter a tournament this week, depending on where she was sitting in those standings. It could be something to do with that. It could be absolutely nothing to do with that at all. I really hope that this is a long term level headed decision to preserve herself, to not prioritise qualification for Riyadh ahead of her physical and mental well-being at this moment in time.

9:23Matt Roberts: And OK, she's young. She could bounce back. She would bounce back from exhaustion. But like, you don't necessarily bounce back from jadedness. Like, I don't want to see a jaded teenager on the tour. And as David has described there, she has looked absolutely out on her feet recently. And she is so young. She is so good. She will have so many opportunities to qualify for and probably win the year end finals. It is not the be all and end all that she does it this year. And to to if that is the decision that she's made, then that is an incredibly brave one. And, you know, a testament to her and to the people that she has around her.

10:13Matt Roberts: and we all and I think tennis all really rates Conchita Martinez as her coach and that relationship and dynamic that they have. And this is speculation here. But if that is the meat of the decision making, then I have so much respect for it. While I also have respect for what Elena Rabakina is doing. But she's in a different place in her career, Matt.

10:40Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'll be honest, as soon as I saw that Androva wasn't playing this week, my assumption was that it was actually a scheduling mistake. And they had, you know, they'd not entered an event thinking that they'd probably still be in for the WTA finals. And now it's suddenly all got a lot closer. And, you know, I think these players really do want to get to the WTA finals. And I think given the season Andreeva has had, I think it would feel like a slight shortcoming if she doesn't end up at the WTA finals. But I do absolutely take your point as well. It may well be something to do with a visa.

11:20Catherine Whitaker: It also may well be a decision to rest and think, OK, I've kind of done all I can. I've given all I have this year. If I get in, I do. If I don't, it's not the end of the world. I truly don't have a sense of what the reason is there, I'll be honest.

11:37Matt Roberts: But you think the most likely scenario is fuck up?

11:41Catherine Whitaker: I think it's, you know, it's more likely that tennis players mess up their schedule than, you know, really go out of their way to prioritise their health and wellbeing. And I don't know, just on the whole, I sort of, you know, I think we're shifting towards that. Absolutely.

12:00Matt Roberts: You're making me sound fantastically naive, Matt, and I fear you might be right. I hope you're right. Because it is remarkable how often tennis players and their teams mess up schedules. Do you remember when Kevin Anderson forgot to enter Queen's the year after he had reached the final, David? Do you remember that? Yes. And he had to play qualifying. qualifying he was a top 10 player and he was in queens qualifying playing in a sort of car park

12:31David Law: yeah well we we used to have it quite a lot at queens you know there are several players that you kind of always assume are going to be there and you know it it really sometimes it was only down to a good i mean we had great tournament directors chris commode steven farrow who part they would make it part of their job to just be on the player's case. Have you entered? You know, because there was one time I remember Dimitrov, you know, the last minute, he played every year. So, of course, he's going to play. And suddenly we realise he's not on the list. And then next thing you know, Stephen's on his case.

13:09David Law: I'd love to know how those conversations go.

13:11Matt Roberts: Like, hi, Gregor, I'm not for a moment suggesting that you or your team have dropped the ball here. I wouldn't suggest that for a moment. Not at all. But just letting you know that you're not on the entry list for Queen's. You are the defending champion.

13:27David Law: It's basically it.

13:28Matt Roberts: I'll just leave that with you. Just let me know.

13:32David Law: And I mean, like you said, there are a couple of players, and you mentioned Anderson, that I've seen other players in qualifying at the event that are serious top-duty players and would get in no trouble at all. And it ends up sort of helping them in a way because get a few matches in qualifying, get the court under your feet. I often think that the players coming out of qualifying look more ready to go.

13:58Catherine Whitaker: I suppose the things I would say is if Andreeva does end up getting in, I think she's more likely to perform better at the WTA finals for not playing this week. You know, she looks, as you said, she looks like she needs the rest. So, you know, perhaps she's, you know, perhaps it is that decision. You know, if I'm going to have a shot at the WTA finals, I need to rest now. It might mean I don't get in, but I'm more likely to be able to perform better when there, if I do have a rest. I suppose the other thing I would say is, you know, coming out of the US Open, it looked pretty likely that Andreeva would be there.

14:33Catherine Whitaker: OK, she's not had a good end to the season, but fair play to Paolini and Rabakina, who have racked up the points in these last few weeks and really put the pressure on and made it a race. And, you know, we've talked a lot about what Paolini's done to secure her qualification. just on Rabatkinner, she'd actually never beaten Aleksandr on a hard court before. In fact, she'd lost every set they'd played on a hard court. All three meetings she'd lost in straight sets against Aleksandr on hard courts previously. And then she goes down a set in the final. You know, she's lost seven sets in a row on a hard court to Aleksandr.

15:12Catherine Whitaker: The turnaround that Rabatkinner then produced, she won nine games in a row in the middle of that final. And I think Alexandre had dropped off a bit, but I wouldn't say massively. I thought Rabatkinner suddenly, from almost nowhere, produced the kind of tennis that I think we all have in our mind of what Rabatkinner is capable of. Dominant tennis with the big serve, the big ground strokes, and just totally took over that final. Became almost unplayable, I thought. And to find that in a final that, you know, she kind of needed to win to really keep up this bid to make the WTA finals against an opponent who's troubled her in the past was really impressive.

15:57Catherine Whitaker: When I've doubted the we're back in a clutch gene over the past year, to be honest, I still have some concerns. I don't think she's fixed that. But to step up in this moment was impressive. And these 500 seem to be her sweet spot right now. You know, these one-week events, she's done a lot better at them over the last couple of seasons than she has in the extended tournaments. And, yeah, I do think she would be a real threat to the field at the WTA finals if she gets there, you know, in those conditions. I think she's kind of shown that she can hit anyone off the court on her best day and she does seem to be finding some of her best tennis of the season right now.

16:47Matt Roberts: That's kind of true of Alexandreva as well, like a specialist at these 500 events. She just can't quite win the final. Right, yeah. She's a top 10 player now, Alexandreva. She plays so much. Like if she, obviously this is, this if is, you know, the keys to the kingdom. But if she could play the level of tennis that she plays at 500 events, like regularly, week in, week out, at slams and at 1000s, but obviously particularly at slams, she'd be a major factor in tennis. But she's such a chronic underperformer at slams. She's close to the inexplicable list. really. One of my favourite lists. Because she can look so damn good.

17:42Matt Roberts: Yeah.

17:44David Law: I am fascinated to know whether that will come into her thinking at all after this year of achievement, because it needs noting, I'm glad you mentioned, you know, top 10 player. You know, this is somewhere she hasn't been. She's been striving for years, Alexandra, without necessarily taking the attention of people like us or just generally. She's always a factor in a draw. She wins a lot of matches, but she doesn't win many of the really big ones. And she's just forced her way into the conversation more this year with consistency. And I wonder whether that, having been ticked off, might make her even approach things a little bit different next year.

18:32David Law: But anyway, 2025, great year for her.

18:37Matt Roberts: Rebecca is the second seed in Tokyo. Paolini is withdrawn, but after the draw. So Belinda Bencic has taken her place at the top of the draw, sort of de facto top seed. Do we think Rebecca is going to do it? Will she reach the semifinals, make it to Riyadh?

18:58Catherine Whitaker: I think so, but she has got a tough draw. I think she'd have to play likely Leila Fernandes very, very early, certainly within those first two wins that she'd need. And I've seen that match and that can sometimes be a real struggle for both players, I would say. And yes, as David pointed out, she's a bit unlucky because she should really probably only have to win one match in Tokyo, But because of the weird way the rankings work, she's already played more than 18 tournaments. And the 18 are what counts to your finals ranking. So she needs to better a previous result that she's got on her ranking.

19:43Catherine Whitaker: And that means she needs to reach the semifinals to actually earn points off it.

19:50Matt Roberts: It's annoyingly complicated, isn't it?

19:53Catherine Whitaker: Oh, it is.

19:58Yeah.

19:59Matt Roberts: OK, glad we agreed on that. Leila Fernandes hot off a title in Osaka, WTA 250 title, her second of the season. She does just pop up and do this, Leila Fernandes. She beat Teresa Valantova in the final. Six Love, 5-7, 6-3, a talented young Czech player. Words that you have heard before, but she really is the real deal, I think, Teresa Valentov. I think she was pretty nervous in this final. A very, very big deal for her, whereas Leila Fernandes is really able to show her fangs in this sort of a situation. What a low-key, great fantasy team signing she's been for you, David. What did you know that we didn't?

20:52David Law: Yes, but only late on. I sort of traded for her late on.

20:56Matt Roberts: She's won two titles since you signed her. Well, you know, yes.

21:00David Law: She needs to have a word with the rest of her teammates. Get them to all buck their ideas up a bit because there's not enough of them performing as far as I'm concerned. But yes, fair point, Catherine. Layla's done it for Dave's dead certs, who turned out weren't dead certs.

21:20Matt Roberts: Who could have thought that Hubert Hercatch wouldn't be a dead cert? Who could have seen that coming?

21:27David Law: Yeah, that was a tragedy, that pick. But anyway, Fernandes, she is so explosive at times and difficult to play against. But her wins often feel quite isolated and you just want her to become a factor more often. Because whenever she does win a title, she makes it a fun time. She makes people care about the results, the performances. You want to see her on stage a lot because she's still one of the best watchers in the sport. But, you know, I like this. I like the fact that she's come through late in the season and shown this. Because her game kind of works on most surfaces, you know, and I still hope that she can kind of burst out the blocks in Australia.

22:21David Law: Because, you know, wouldn't it be great to see her on the Rod Laver Arena having significant matches against top players and getting some wins?

22:30Matt Roberts: Being the best show in tennis.

22:31David Law: Yeah. That's what Pam called her, isn't it?

22:35Matt Roberts: In 2021.

22:36David Law: Yeah. So anyway, credit to her.

22:39Matt Roberts: And in terms of Valantova, I understand if listeners have a bit of fatigue about being tipped off about young Czech female talents and them being ones to keep your eye on. Is Theresa Valantova different? And if so, why? Like, is this the real deal we've got here? Is she something special?

23:12Catherine Whitaker: Well, speak to James Hansen, who is the tennis editor at The Athletic. And he is the earliest of early adopters for Valantova.

23:26Matt Roberts: I don't want to make him sound weird, but he is borderline obsessed with Teresa Valantova.

23:31Catherine Whitaker: Frankly, banging on about her all year, heading out to outside courts at slams, you know. And this week he was texting me after every Valantova match. And then he gave me some stick because Arsenal beat Fulham and he's an Arsenal fan. And I thought, right, I'm going to give you some homework, James. I want a statement from you on this week from Valantova, from the Valantova guy, you know, getting to a final. This is a big moment. And, well, he produced a very nice analysis of her week, which you can read in full on The Athletic on that Monday briefing that David's mentioned. But he's picked out a few things in particular.

24:13Catherine Whitaker: Her ability to beat higher ranked players than her has been impressive over the last couple of years. She's been, you know, not just getting a lot of wins, but getting really good wins relative to her ranking. She's had an extremely good record at this tournament and at the Slams this year from winning from a set down, really showing a lot of resilience in matches. And in terms of the game, James has picked out improvements on serve, real willingness to use drop shots and craft in her game. And, you know, the forehand is still a little bit of a weakness. I've seen that. It can be rushed. but she's also got some weapons you know i remember watching her against for back in her at the us open in fact with you katherine i actually i think james was there as well of course he was and she didn't look like hugely underpowered even against for back in her like okay obviously a little bit but but she's got enough there so definitely definitely on the rise and yes i think it's it's only a matter of time before before james will be going blonde

25:25Matt Roberts: you've written a check for james there that he he and theresa now have to cash and i'm absolutely here for it okay great uh that's it for the women join us in part two we will head to al matty with joy in our hearts today's show is brought to you by vanguard

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27:51Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where we head down to Almaty, Kazakhstan. And a title for Daniel Medvedev. He beat Korentan Mute 754663 in the final here, his 21st career title. He has broken his title drought. This is his first since May of 2023. So more than 18 months for Daniel Medvedev without a title. But he continues his incredible record of only winning titles in different locations. This is his 21st and they have come in 21 different places. And what a final it was. In the words of David Whittaker via text yesterday, I'll take Mutey v Medvedev over Sinha v Alcaraz any day.

28:49Matt Roberts: I had been waiting for that text to come in and lo and behold, it came. But Sinha as it might not have been, but it was a whole bunch of fun. It was fantastic, this final, David.

29:06David Law: Yeah, I mean, pretty much, I do think pretty much the ultimate stylistically attractive match for me. Because I don't typically find Medvedev that great to watch. If he's playing another good baseliner, I'm usually a bit bored by the styles of the match. But then I'll watch it because it's Daniel Medvedev and anything can happen. and even if he's just winning straightforwardly, his post-match interview is likely to be worth a listen. But put him up against Mute and you just have the most intoxicating combination. I mean, I will watch Mute play against the wall, frankly. But, and when I was watching this, I was thinking, because Mute immediately went to break up and I thought, you know, think of what Alcraz does to Medvedev when Alcraz is playing well, you know, all the drop shots and the angles and the sort of messing him around.

30:09David Law: Could he do it? Could he get inside his head? I went away for a little bit, come back. Medvedev's won the first set 7-5. And then I'm locked in for the rest of the match. And the fact that Mute got himself a comeback and he just got more and more outrageous with the things that he was trying. He would sometimes play rallies where he's just slicing and he's slow balling and he's floating these balls into the baseline. And then he'll whip a forehand through and then he'll hit a sort of off pace cross court angle and then he'll hit a lob. And it's just it's the ultimate of what John McInerney is to talk about giving a different ball every time.

30:50David Law: Mute is actually trying to wind you up, I think, as well as as well as kind of strategically play points. He's trying to just piss you off until you just lose it. And, well, he picked quite a good candidate, really, in Daniel Medvedev, given the evidence of the last six to eight months. But Medvedev stuck at it. And, I mean, it looks like he was quite unwell. It looked like he got the lurgy all week long. And, unfortunately, that was demonstrating itself in some quite horrific-looking nose-blowing from Medvedev, which I could have done without seeing. But anyway, he dug in and really didn't look like he was going to win this match at various points.

31:32David Law: Moutet tried absolutely everything. And I think they really won each other's respects in this match. And the final set, virtually every point Matt and I were going back and forth with comments of what we just witnessed. and I do recommend having a look and watching this back because they're a great watch. And the thing is, this was significant. That's a long time for Medvedev to go without a title and he's been on such a downer all year long. And the first time he's ever won a title with his two young daughters there as well. It's kind of cute to see that. And then you've got Mute who's yet to win a title.

32:15David Law: so this was a massive deal and Moutet is at the highest ranking of his career you know he's really putting it together and it's great to see that because it'd be so easy for a guy like him to just be the hits and giggles guy you know and he is that but he's actually showing that he can win tennis matches and be quite an effective player and he seems to have got his attitude together in a way that he wants to make the most of it I can't wait to see more of that and be a good sport

32:50Matt Roberts: like Mute was going for his first title there he's lost it in a heartbreaker and he's pretty magnanimous about then being made to put on a full Kazakh national jaunty costume like there are a lot of tennis players that wouldn't have taken that in such good spirits I don't think he wore it well maybe most of them yeah it was great he did a great speech he said he was proud of Medvedev it was fantastic

33:27Catherine Whitaker: yeah he said to his team you didn't let me down today which I thought was quite amusing as well yeah like I I'm such a sucker for those you know tournaments that get the players to to wear some national clothing, a chapan, I believe it's called. That's a Kazakh robe like that. And I thought they'd both pull it off.

33:52Matt Roberts: They saw what the Mexican tournaments do with the hats and they thought, I see you and I raise you and I love it.

34:00Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it's just brilliantly camp that Medvedev's first title in 29 months, 882 days then comes with accompanied photos of him wearing this robe and it's just brilliant I

34:15Matt Roberts: just love it god 29 I said more than 18 months didn't I've missed out a whole year there 29

34:22David Law: there was no checking that is crazy are you okay to put this on there was no it was just like here

34:27Catherine Whitaker: you go yeah it was brilliant it was brilliant yeah and and and that's right I think I think that's exactly it isn't it you know a 250 towards the end of the season given everything Daniel Medvedev has achieved shouldn't feel that significant but because of the drought because of the doubts because of the decline frankly that he's that he's been in for so long getting over the line and winning a title hopefully is a big big confidence boost for him and also I think there were some elements there that he can take forward to next year because for the first time in a while I actually thought that his serve was a helpful difference maker for him you know he was he was after it didn't he he went after it he was really getting the pace up on the serve it was it was a weapon again for him a bit of a difference really between him and Mute you know Mute can't really rely on hitting big serves in the way that a lot of players can and also his willingness Medvedev to come to the net I mean I think a lot of that was the matchup and the the slow balls that Moutet gives you those sort of balls that aren't short but aren't deep they're they're sort of in the middle of the court and maybe force you to come in off them a little bit as well and also you can slightly attack his backhand because likely you're going to get a slice off it and it's a good move then to come to the net and close it but he came in more than 50 times Medvedev in this match and that's a lot for anyone that's a huge number for the guy who's been the sort of baseline backboard traditionally for his career but as he moves into his 30s Medvedev that old game style is not going to work he is everyone has to adapt but I think Medvedev in particular because of his game style is going to have to adapt and I always thought those first couple of sets he played against Sinner in that Australian Open final that he ended up losing would be a really good template for him going forward and I just I don't think he's had the form to be able to play like that for a while but it seemed like there was a bit more intent and yeah I guess I just really respect the move that he's made to depart with Gilles Savaro it's must have been a difficult move considering all the all the success they'd had together but he realized that a change was needed and you know you're kind of seeing the fruits of that straight away with finally getting a title again and hopefully this is the start of Medvedev moving back in the right direction towards the top 10 again I don't I think we've had the peak Medvedev years I really do but I like would like to think that he can be a top 10 player again and I would like to see that because as David said he's always good value at the end of matches with those with those interviews and press conferences as well.

37:28Matt Roberts: Do you each foresee him qualifying for the ATP finals in 2026? Because I think he's 14 in the world now off the back of that he's he's got Half the points of Taylor Fritz at world number four. Half the number of points. I think I'm going to say yes. It's not an absolute disaster. He hasn't dropped off a cliff, but he's nowhere near where he has been. No, I'm going to say yes to that because I think the main thing is appetite.

38:06David Law: Because it must be hard. I was thinking this watching him even the last few weeks. He plays such a lot. I mean he was saying in the on-court speech you know I've got a 5am flight in the morning to Vienna you know it's a lot to be doing isn't it and I mean listen I know it's a great life he's got loads and loads of money and he can shortcut a lot of things and it can make it all luxurious and that sort of thing but when you've been as high as he has one in the world Grand Slam champion you've won everything basically you've fought it out with Djokovic and Federer and Nadal and now you're trying your best with Alcaraz and Sinner and you've had wins over all of them and then suddenly you're not doing that.

38:48David Law: Suddenly you're nowhere near Sinner and Alcaraz and you're getting beaten by people that... And he always looks such hard work. You know, when I look at Medvedev, the amount of times I see him in hard, gruelling matches, it'd be so easy for him to just think, oh, just forget this now. I've had enough. You know, I'm going to just go and enjoy my money and my wife, my family and my two kids and, you know, just not have to do this all the time. Well, clearly he's got hunger. Clearly he's got, he wants to make the most of his career. You're a long time retired. I can't wait to kind of talk to him about that when we next get a chance to go to a press conference with him.

39:30David Law: The fact that he has overhauled his support team, which has been so steadfast and so part of what has made him who he is as a player, that's quite bold I think at this stage of his career I think it was absolutely necessary in the end but I think it's the jump start and the fact that he's, in that final game of the final against Moutet he just decided I'm going to win or lose this on my serve right now, I'm going to go flat out on my serve and he was really banging it down and even that game got to 30-all but he just he took it out of Moutet's hands. And the fact that he did that and he's going to the net, that to me makes his career potentially have a second wind to it.

40:18David Law: I think that he will reach the finals next year. It's the first time I thought about it. So good question, Catherine. And I'm on record. Matt?

40:29Catherine Whitaker: I mean, I think he could technically still reach the finals this year.

40:35Matt Roberts: I saw you doing some typing. I was like, what is he fact-checking me on there?

40:40Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, I mean, there's still...

40:42Matt Roberts: Do you think that's why he's headed to Vienna? Do you think he's on a quest?

40:47Catherine Whitaker: No, I don't think he's, like, totally gunning for it. That's why he got the 5am flight to Vienna. But look, there's also a lot of injuries ahead of him. So he's currently 13 in the race. Runa's out, Draper's out. De Menor's a question mark. Shelton's a question mark is Djokovic going to play like there's a lot of players there who are ahead of him but actually might not end up playing the finals some of them definitely not and if he could win another title look it's a big if he's just won a first title in 29 months it may be unlikely that another one's going to come along straight away and the field's going to be much tougher but you've got a thousand points to play for in Paris I mean problem is he's already won Paris hasn't he So, unfortunately, that is off the list in terms of him winning it.

41:36Catherine Whitaker: You've got 500 to play for in Vienna. Vienna, though. You know, if he can make finals.

41:42Matt Roberts: Okay. My question for you then, Matt, given that you've circumvented my original question, is will he keep up this record for his whole career? It'll be my favourite stat ever. Oh, me too.

41:54Catherine Whitaker: It was like when I was gutted when Ostopenko lost in like a normal round of the French Open because she had the either winning it or losing in the first round and it was perfect stat and then she went and ruined it.

42:04Matt Roberts: She lost in like round three, didn't she? Yeah, so boring. So, so boring.

42:08David Law: And she didn't play Sviantet when we were waiting for it.

42:11Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Medvedev's very aware of it though, isn't he? It was like the first thing he said in his post-match interview, he said, yeah, it's another title in a different place, keeping up this crazy record. I think he likes it. I think he gets a kick out of it. because he likes

42:28Matt Roberts: he likes funny and silly and that's what we like about him he gets irony I think he probably

42:41Catherine Whitaker: will double up at some point but I hope not I hope he just like gets the Australian open you know and then that's like the big one that he hasn't got. I'd love Medvedev during the Australian Open. I think that would be so funny.

43:03Matt Roberts: Do you remember when Yoshihito Nishioka ruined the triple bagel watch you were doing with Karen Hashinov? Matt has never watched a Karen Hashinov match so intently and never dropped it so quickly as when Yoshihito Nishioka won a game, won his first game of the match. And then didn't he go on to win a set or something? Yeah, it became a totally unremarkable scoreline.

43:34David Law: Medvedev's got the right coach for an Australian Open breakthrough though, hasn't he now?

43:39Matt Roberts: Yeah.

43:40David Law: There we go. Wow. There was a tennis relive on Thomas Johansson. Thomas Johansson could do the double

43:44Matt Roberts: as player and coach.

43:47David Law: That'd be quite good, wouldn't it? Yeah.

43:51Catherine Whitaker: god we've got we've gone way over the top for a 250 and al matty haven't we i was just asking

43:59Matt Roberts: whether he's gonna reach the atp finals last year that's all next year that's all it was and by the

44:04Catherine Whitaker: way i will say yes to that and i guess my i guess my long-winded way of saying that is that even in this year where he's been way off his best and barely won matches at the slams he's left so many points on the table at the slams this year where there's obviously big points available he's not a million miles from getting there even this year so i i do think he's trending in the right

44:26Matt Roberts: direction to qualify next year yep agree with you both uh let's head to brussels now the atp 250 event there won by felix auger aliassime the the indoor specialist that he is he beat uri da Hetchka in the final 7-6, 6-7, 6-2. Felix is now just over 300 points behind Lorenzo Mazzetti in the race for what is theoretically the eighth spot in Turin, although, as Matt's pointed out, there's a lot of question marks over who will actually end up being able to play in Turin. But in terms of the race as it stands, we're looking at Felix and Mazzetti. Mazzetti has made it very clear he wants this so much.

45:15Matt Roberts: He is hauling his sort of semi-mummified body around the circuit in an attempt to try and qualify for the ATP finals, obviously, at home in Italy.

45:28Catherine Whitaker: He said it's been more of a nightmare than a dream since Wimbledon as he's trying to chase these points. And he's also now, you know, it's probably his worst time of the season, indoor hardcore and he's got Orjali has seen breathing down his neck in his favourite time of the season and it it just feels like the guy at the end of the marathon or something hanging on for dear life with this guy charging the guy that doesn't have the kick yeah

45:58Matt Roberts: the guy that doesn't have the kick at the end trying to hang on yeah and look

46:03Catherine Whitaker: honestly I think the players who are in in Turin will probably be hoping that Mazzetti does qualify because I think they'd all rather play Mazzetti on an indoor hardcourt than Orge Aliasim, especially Mazzetti who's having to push himself to the limit to even try and qualify because, yeah, there's a real serenity, I think, around Orge Aliasim at the moment, you know, like with the... Post-marriage Felix. Yeah, but I mean, I think it did start before that, even at the US Open. He found something there in his game and he has... After he spoke to me. It was quite, yeah, the David Law pep talk.

46:43Matt Roberts: Rindiknesh, Felix. I mean, come on. It's too much to be coincidence.

46:47David Law: It is amazing. He takes part in tennis podcast meets. And my question to him was, what's different about you compared to when you were in the semifinals of this event in world number six? And he just looked at me slightly quizzically as if so, well, you know, it's not that much different, but it's not overnight either. He was the classic sort of, I'm a tennis player, not a podcaster answer. You know, you have to do things bit at a time, not just sort of make some sweeping take. And I'm so impressed with him. I was watching that yesterday when he lost that second set. He looks like he's going to win the thing there and then in two sets.

47:28David Law: Lehechka comes back and makes a third set of it. And crikey, it'd be so easy to just lose your way, wouldn't it? And just be down on yourself when you've squandered these chances. And Lehechka doesn't give you much, but he just knuckled down again and off he went. I mean, I love that now, that Oje Aliasim has sort of refound three years ago form. Yeah, he would be dangerous, actually. Indoors in Chirin, I think he'd be a great addition to it.

48:00Catherine Whitaker: And you think the way he started his career as well, 0-8 in finals, he's now 8-11. He's really turned that record around in terms of being able to perform in the big moments. And as David said, I think the start of his career, if he lost the second set in the way that he did, yes, Lehechka stepped up and saved a couple of match points. But the Orge Allia Seem forehand suddenly got a bit shonky down the stretch of that tie break. but he reset so well and even when Lehechka pulled off a absolute miracle sort of forehand squash shot to save a break point at the start of the third even then Felix wasn't flustered by it and and ends up kind of cruising through the third set and yeah the he's got a at his best he's got a very simple effective game or yeah this scene big serve big forehand off the serve and that works best indoors and when he's confident like this he's a real handful for even the best players and yeah he's been he's really had a nice stretch of form now for a couple of months and yeah it's good to see

49:13Matt Roberts: Yeah I think he'll probably do it I think I would pick him over over Mazzetti even though Mazzetti's technically in pole position right now describing the situation as a nightmare does not fill Mazzetti fans with confidence, especially when he's up against somebody who's in his favourite part of the season and looks honestly pretty fresh, actually. Felix Auger, the Haseem. Headed to Stockholm now and a title won by Kasper Rude. He beat Ugo Mbair in the final. But probably the biggest story of the week in Stockholm, the scenes that have attracted the most attention for being pretty horrific, really.

50:02Matt Roberts: The injury sustained by Holger Rune in his semi-final against Hugo Ember. He has now told us, my Achilles is fully broken on the proximal part, meaning I need an operational next week and from here, rehabilitation. And from anybody that knows anybody about Achilles These ruptures, that's a kind of minimum nine months on the sideline situation, possibly longer, possibly never being quite the same player. Again, this is absolutely devastating. It was one of those that you knew was devastating from the second it happened. I mean, you heard him report to the ATP physio there on the court that he heard it go.

50:50Matt Roberts: He heard it. He physically heard the rupture. happen which is just just horrifying for such a young player it's just absolutely devastating to

51:04David Law: see david yeah yeah i mean couldn't put it more more appropriately than that really it's um he always seems as well so durable when i see him running around you know he he looks like such a great athlete like you can play any sport but that that area of the body is so fragile there's nothing you can really do to reinforce the strength of that part of the body and if it goes it goes and there's no shortcuts in the rehabilitation really either I mean you know there are people that have had it and come back in in various sports and and being the same again I think but there are many that haven't as well and I just I hope the best for him obviously that he makes a full recovery but that he that he can handle the process because again this is a guy like Medvedev who plays a lot you know he likes to play a lot he likes to be on the tour he hasn't known anything but being on the tour for such a long time and I think I mean just not being able to do stuff other than rehab I suppose once the time comes that's a real challenge mentally and I just I really hope he can figure it out you know and find a peace and a kind of purpose to trying to rehab and get back eventually but it it might not be it certainly won't be easy but it might be really really tough for him psychologically that

52:44Matt Roberts: Yeah, I really share the same concern about him mentally and emotionally during this period and having to sit on the sidelines and all the FOMO of that. I remember being in Turin for the ATP finals the year that he was there as an alternate. He'd had that brilliant run leading up to the ATP finals out of nowhere, really. And he'd put himself randomly in contention. And he was there, I think he was with Patrick Morotoglu at the time. And he was practicing more than anybody else. He was always on the practice court. He was practically sort of sitting courtside, like barely disguising the fact that he was willing somebody to get injured so that he could rush onto the court and get the opportunity to play.

53:40Matt Roberts: He was just fizzing with desperation to get on the tennis court. And maybe that's been to his detriment over the past few years and his development. I think it's very possible that he has overplayed. I don't know, but I worry about him over this period. He doesn't strike me as the sort of character at the moment that is going to cope with this well. Now, maybe he'll have some enforced sort of character development over this time, but I think it's going to be a rocky old road for him, certainly in these initial stages, and I hope he has good people around him.

54:29Catherine Whitaker: And I noticed a lot of players either sort of posting direct good wishes to Holgeruner or commenting on the schedule as a result of this injury. And we don't know exactly what caused the Runa injury. He was already playing with a lot of strapping on the leg. sort of higher up the leg it's possible it was sort of overcompensating injury um but i imagine there's i imagine that that that's that sort of injury that i don't i don't remember happening too often in tennis as you said there's certainly a lot in other sports but i imagine it's the sort of injury that does shake the locker room a little bit and think oh god like that could be me kind of thing and I sort of get the sense that a lot of players are feeling really feeling for Holgeroo now but also just a little bit worried about like you do sometimes start to see the same injury recur in a sport as the sport develops and you really hope that this isn't one that that comes to tennis regularly because it is as you said a really really tough tough one

55:43Matt Roberts: yeah it as you say it prompted a lot of um i'm sure private behind the scenes uh reaching out to to holgerina but also a lot of um front of house uh commentary and one that kind of got the most attention was jack draper who called a very early end to his season due to injury he tweeted and posted a couple of days ago injuries are going to happen we are pushing our bodies to do things they aren't supposed to in elite sport we have so many incredible younger guys on the tour right now and I'm proud to be a part of that however the tour and the calendar have to adapt if any of us are going to achieve some sort of longevity Taylor Fritz weighed in on this at some length I think during sort of sleeping hours in the UK, Jack Draper would have woken up to sort of explosion in his mentions, I think.

56:44Matt Roberts: Taylor Fritz said facts, also seeing more injuries and burnout now than ever before, because Ball's court's conditions have slowed down a lot, making the weekly grind even more physically demanding and tough on the body. He said a lot else, Taylor Fritz, he came with a lot of receipts about ball speeds and court speeds and kind of misunderstandings or common misconceptions on that front. sort of failure to adequately factor in ball speeds when making decisions about court speeds, I thought was a really interesting point. He posited the theory that Shanghai made the decision to slow down their courts because they tested the balls that they were going to use in quicker conditions than they actually ended up being used in and therefore anticipated the conditions being too quick as a result of the balls, felt they needed to correct that with the court speed, but actually it was a massive overcorrection, which was an interesting point.

57:54Matt Roberts: But the wider point here is the one that I know we've been banging on about for so long, but tennis is taking, with its calendar and its scheduling and its decisions, taking absolutely no account of the way the world and the sport is changing and we are seeing the real world consequences of that. And I've heard nothing from the ATP. Nothing. Like, I suppose, what are they supposed to say? Oh, we fucked it. The two week long masters were a mistake. Lots, you know, I don't know, but it just feels like everybody's sleepwalking through this crisis at the moment, David. yeah and and i think that they would say well you know we're providing more money that that's

58:49David Law: what you all wanted you wanted more money we're providing longer tournaments that can earn you more money we're we're putting this massive bonus pool together and of course they they obviously have the two masters with uh with the tournaments and the players so they're they're always trying want to appeal and satisfy both but you know this these are quite these are public words and um yeah i would be interested to know um what their reaction would be and and i think that that is only going to continue as as time goes on that the the question marks just quickly before we move on

59:26Matt Roberts: to talk more about money. Kasper Rude, Matt. Good title for him in Stockholm.

59:35Catherine Whitaker: Honestly, blew my mind a little bit, the tennis Kasper Rude played, particularly in the final. I mean, he described it as his best performance of the year. I think it's one of the best performances I've ever seen Kasper Rude play. He was seriously good, like seriously good in this final. barely losing points on serve. He hit an astonishing forehand pass very early in this match from so far wide that really sort of set the tone. And that forehand was just so impactful. His slice on the backhand was staying low. And honestly, going through Chilic, Korda, Shapovalov, Umber, I think it was a very legit four players indoors for Kasparud to have to beat.

1:00:24all of those have the ability to rush him and what i found was interesting is that he's he's

1:00:29Catherine Whitaker: changed racket a little bit since the us open he switched to a smaller frame uh same yon x but he's gone to a 98 rather than 100 and he's talked about how it just gives him a bit more control on the ball and yeah honestly i was i just i just wanted to give rude his flowers there because that was a remarkable performance and like it does make me reflect a little bit on his season you know i think we probably think of it as a little bit disappointing but he is i'm gonna keep banging on about the race he is 11 in the race he has changed a little bit the type of tournaments that he's winning you know like he used to be the 250 guy didn't he he won a 500 last year he won a thousand this year for the first time he's now won a title indoors on a hardcore for the first time i just he was a bit unlucky getting ill at the french open and that that really did knock him out at what should be his probably best tournament of the year and if he if he'd got sort of quarter final points there instead of losing in the second round when he was ill he would absolutely be in that race that we're talking about for the final turin spot and i do think even like even though he's reached Grand Sam finals I still think if Kasparu is in contention to qualify for the year-end finals that is a good season so he is still in that race he's an outsider but he's still in it he'd have to deliver this sort of tennis again on an indoor hard court and make sure it's not a total one-off but I was really struck watching him he looked dangerous and like he was a threat to these guys and bringing it to them.

1:02:10Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, I was just really impressed with Kasparud this week.

1:02:15Matt Roberts: Consider Kasparud's flowers signed, sealed and delivered. What flowers would we like to offer to Yannick Sinner for successfully defending his Six Kings title in Riyadh? He doesn't need flowers. He's got money. I think everybody got paid$1.5 million just for being there. Minimum$1.5 million. Maybe some of them got more. Yannick Sinner won an additional$6 million for winning the title. Isn't money great, David?

1:02:59David Law: I'm sure it is, yeah. Yeah, oh dear, oh dear, where do you start? I mean, when I consider all the finals that we've been talking about, many of them hard four, many of them three sets, this entire event unfolded without a deciding set. They were, it was so, oh, so flat. The tennis was so flat. and I mean you know there were a few moments when Alcraz played against Fritz he clearly just went out he actually said I just went out I wanted to show the crowd some shots so he went out and he was playing Carlos Alcraz I mean he might not have been playing for giggles but he was playing to put on a show and he did and Fritz didn't know what to do with it but apart from that I mean in the final I thought Sinner was clearly trying things himself that he's talked about and he's worked on this serve and he's and he was serving really well, and he won the fine against Alcraz.

1:04:03David Law: But the whole thing was gross, really, I thought. I mean, just... If you consider that Oji Aliasim and Ruud won€107 ,000, so what was that,€150 ,000 or something for winning their tournaments, and Alexander Zverev picked up€1.5 million for 59 minutes of drudgery, where they just don't look bothered. why should they look bothered means absolutely nothing completely irrelevant it's just a money making operation and i could do without it on the not looking bothered thing i was watching

1:04:46Matt Roberts: the final sort of dipping in and out of the final between sinner and alcaraz and particularly on Alcaraz's side but to a large extent on both sides like it was very evident in their body language they did not give a shit and I was torn between my initial reaction to that was like real fury at how disrespectful that was to six million dollars like can you imagine a normal person doing anything for six million dollars how much they would fucking care. And like to treat six million dollars like it's an irrelevance in that way felt pretty grotesque to me. But then on the other hand, I'd have found it grotesque if they cared, like because I I don't want them to care like they do about a Grand Slam final as about$6 million.

1:05:49Matt Roberts: I'd have been annoyed about that as well. So I realise they can't win for me in this situation other than by not taking the paycheck to go to Saudi Arabia. But yeah, the whole thing turned my stomach quite considerably. My favourite moment was Novak Djokovic retiring in an exhibition so as not to give Taylor Fritz a proper win over him. That was really quite amusing.

1:06:24David Law: Yeah, Fritz won her first set on a tiebreak. And I mean, it was hard fought, you know, close hard fought set. And Djokovic just walked to the net. And listen, I mean, the guy is clearly not fit, really, at the moment. Djokovic, you know, he's not fully fit. But again, doesn't it make you just sad that still turns up, still takes the money. Yes, gave the crowd a sight of Novak Djokovic and played a good hard set against Taylor Fritz. it's just oh all of it all of it just i i just didn't want to have to put it on and for for the job i had to put it on but um i didn't well i did for like two minutes and my

1:07:17Catherine Whitaker: main take was couldn't they have found a way to write Saudi season on the court another time like they'd written it five times on the court Saudi season that that seemed to be their like only innovation i sort of turned it on expecting you know you say like you can't be bothered it's almost like they can't be bothered either but they've got these players there i would call

1:07:38Matt Roberts: i would call their use of ai but incredibly innovative can we talk about that for a moment the extraordinary ai generated graphics like you're literally paying these players presumably you're paying them enough that you can just take actual real world photographs of them rather than generate these extremely bizarre AI approximations of them where Yannick Sinner looked like a sort of Henry VIII version of himself. He looked a bit gouty. I don't know what happened with Taylor Fritz. That just simply wasn't just Taylor Fritz. I don't know. if I'm Taylor Fritz's people I'm complaining about that it was like they didn't know who was going to fill the final spot so they just said to the AI machine just give me a generic tennis man for the sixth player extraordinary what an absolute pilotos right that is it for part two we'll be back in part three to have a little look ahead to this week AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into.

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1:09:59Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. What have we got to look forward to this week? Well, I told you that the WTA is in Tokyo this week. We're back aiming to reach the semifinals to qualify for the WTA finals. She's the second seed. as Matt has laid out. She's got potentially quite tricky draw, could face Leila Fernandes. Fernandes has Maria Sakari in round one. We also have the WTA 250 event in Guangzhou with Jessica Boutas-Monero, Anne Lee, Tatiana Maria and Alexandra Ayala as the top four seeds. It's not giving blockbuster that, is it? But there we go. So the ATP this week has two 500 events, one in Vienna and one in Basel.

1:10:50Matt Roberts: Vienna obviously had Jack Draper as its defending champion. He's not defending his title. But we do have Yannick Sinner there as the top seed. Alexander Zverev as the second seed. And we have round ones that include Thomas Machac against Flavio Caboli. Alexey Poparin against Matteo Berrettini. Sitsapas Muzetti. That's tough for Muzetti, isn't it? He's already having a nightmare. And Karin Hashanov against Talon Greekspor in Basel. Giovanni Mpesci Perikar is the defending champion. I had forgotten that. Totally forgotten that. you're nodding like you've got vivid memories of Mpeshi Perikard's romp to the Basel title

1:11:41David Law: I'd forgotten a lot about this time last year I've got to be honest

1:11:47Matt Roberts: well apparently Giovanni Mpeshi Perikard won Basel and presumably we did a load of podcasting about it but I've got no memory of it he has drawn Joel Fonseca in round one this year other round one matches include Fritz against Valentin Vachero remember him yes

1:12:07Catherine Whitaker: that's a really fun first round

1:12:09Matt Roberts: that is really fun as is Felix Augerliassime against Gabriel Diallo Augerliassime of course aiming to hunt down Lorenzo Muzzetti you've got Ben Shelton Kasper Rude Alejandro Davidovic Fakina Jakub Menchik and Arta Rindekanesh all in the draw.

1:12:30Catherine Whitaker: And on the doubles order of play today, have you seen this? You're going to be annoyed about this, Catherine. Just a little heads up. On the doubles order of play, up against Joao Fonseca, in fact, is Nicolas Maude.

1:12:50Catherine Whitaker: Playing with Pierre-Huguer-Ber.

1:12:52Matt Roberts: He's coaching somebody, isn't he? oh he's definitely retired retirement doesn't mean anything anymore meaningless oh well good luck to them but then I was like oh the band back together

1:13:09Catherine Whitaker: I do like it yeah

1:13:12Matt Roberts: yeah good luck to them okay that's this week we'll be back on Monday to talk about it before then though we'll be in Wrexham. Today is the, well, this week is the week of our big Wrexham debut. Wednesday night. We're looking forward to seeing, where are you chuckling, Matt?

1:13:37Catherine Whitaker: Debut. It's true, but it just suggests more.

1:13:44Matt Roberts: Well, we'll see how Wednesday goes. You never know. We'll review afterwards.

1:13:49David Law: There might be a clamour.

1:13:53Matt Roberts: we are very excited and touched and overwhelmed that so many of you are coming to Wrexham to see us on Wednesday and it really is going to be a good time Billie Jean is confirmed to be attending she has a chaperone for the night her date is David Whittaker also travelling to Wrexham so yeah it's going to be it's going to be fun I am looking forward to it the weather is better in Wrexham on Wednesday than it is down here and I don't want to do many more dog walks like I did this morning. So get me out of here. Get me to Wrexham. Yes. So whoever's coming to Wrexham on Wednesday, we can't wait to see you.

1:14:30Matt Roberts: And it's going to be a good show. So that is Wednesday. We'll be back on Monday with another podcast. And we're looking forward to the week ahead. We have a mascot, nay, two mascots. Folks, I introduce you to Archie, And Alfie, owned by Amanda Kirkland. Oh, my goodness. Look at these faces. Archie is a four-year-old miniature golden doodle who loves watching tennis with his mama. Entering into his second year as a pet mascot. He is begrudgingly excited to share the spotlight with his little brother Alfie. Oh, a petite English cream golden doodle. Now, is petite a descriptor there or is it an official part of the breed?

1:15:23Matt Roberts: I'll look that up. Both pups love their new home in New Jersey. Two New Jersey floofs, Matt. What a week for it as well. I saw Springsteen deliver me from nowhere this last week.

1:15:40Catherine Whitaker: With Springsteen.

1:15:41Matt Roberts: Strong recommend.

1:15:43Catherine Whitaker: Sort of. You weren't like sharing popcorn, but he was there. Yeah,

1:15:50Matt Roberts: I'd have been up for that. Yes, I watched Bruce watch his own biopic. It was great. Archie and Alfie, look, I mean, you can't go wrong with a doodle. That's my dog policy. So it's very big of you, Archie, to allow your stage to be shared with your younger brother, Alfie. and what a twosome, what a duo they make. They are absolutely gorgeous and they look very clean. Obviously haven't been on a walk like I went on this morning. We have our mascots, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to you. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:16:37Catherine Whitaker: Just the one shout out today. It's a very special shout out for Cara from Wrexham. hey cara cara is coming to the show on wednesday exactly and uh cara what a legend cara we've met and cara wrote a lovely uh little thing in in her shout out she wanted to pay tribute to her grandparents who introduced her to tennis when she was a child and she says i wouldn't be here and listening if it wasn't for them i'd like to dedicate this shout out to pat and particularly in loving memory to Grandad Gwyn who passed away in September. I love you both so much, Cara says.

1:17:19Matt Roberts: Oh, Cara, I'm sorry to hear that. That's a beautiful tribute and Cara is a lovely person. Cara wrote us a letter that she gave to us at the live show in London earlier this summer. She's made us friendship bracelets before. she's the loveliest and been such a wonderful supporter of ours and we are looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday Cara in Wrexham, our Wrexham debut we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we will speak to you in a week unless you're coming to Wrexham, we'll see you then

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