Serena’s Wimbledon singles comeback is ON

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1:17Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. coming to you live tonight somewhat ahead of our original schedule because events have overtaken proceedings in dramatic fashion this evening with the news that broke a little over 90 minutes ago that the eighth and final women's singles main draw wildcard for Wimbledon, which had been mysteriously held back for a few days there, has now been allocated to seven-time former champion Serena Williams, four years after her retirement at the 2022 US Open. And at the age of 44, Serena Williams will be returning to singles competition at Wimbledon a week from now.

2:06Matt Roberts: And we will be there with live shows just like this one every night of the championships from the broadcast roof overlooking the ground. So if you want to join us for those shows, hit the subscribe button on our YouTube channel and get notified when we're going live. All shows, of course, will be available as podcasts as well. David Law, Matt Roberts are both here. Of course, Serena deserves nothing less than a full house. David, I'm going to ask you how shocked you are by this news. And by that, I mean not in the context of today or this week or maybe even this month, because we were on standby to do a live show following this news, weren't we?

2:49Matt Roberts: As soon as those wildcards got announced and there was one free and Serena was practicing at Wimbledon, we knew there was a strong possibility of this. I think we all kind of knew when Serena confirmed her comeback generally that she most likely wasn't in this just for the doubles. So when I ask you how shocked you are, I kind of mean how shocked would David Law of 12 months ago have been to have been shown a glimpse into the future and see Wimbledon 2026 with Serena Williams in it?

3:22David Law: Yeah, I'd have been pretty shocked, I think. I think the only thought I'd had was when the US Open's mixed doubles got announced. I thought she was going to play that. Even last year, I thought she was going to play that because you know why not nothing really to lose you know just get yourself more or less ready for that but I but if somebody had told me that she would be playing singles at Wimbledon I think the only thing that would have given me pause for thought is the fact that Venus was doing that you know for for a few years and she's older than Serena so with that in mind well why not you know but I just hadn't really heard an inkling about this at all we know we know we until she rejoined the testing pool for the anti-doping.

4:08David Law: That was the moment that suddenly actually, not just doubles, mixed doubles, but actually playing tennis again seemed absolutely on the cards. But even as much as the last show that we did, and that's just a few days ago, 10 minutes before we came on air, I was thinking, no, I think she's going to not play Wimbledon, but she's going to come back following it. She's going to start with doubles. And then when I joined the show, I suddenly thought, no, I think I've changed my mind. I think she is going to play. And then when Matt said he'd seen the video footage of her at Orangley Park practicing at Wimbledon when there's still a week and a half to go and nothing to do, and even the doubles doesn't even start until halfway through the first week, I thought, well, yeah, she's going to play singles, isn't she?

5:00David Law: But even so, when the news dropped today, it still was like wow this is pretty mega isn't it yeah i mean matt you've you've been in this

5:11Matt Roberts: tennis media game a while now like where does this rank for you in terms of size of story if 10 is 10 is jockovich deportation let's say let's say one is the alcaraz buzz cut fun but you know i know david thinks it's very consequential but you know fun but not emergency podcast worthy where does this rank i think we're closer to deportation

5:44Catherine Whitaker: than buzz cut territory i wasn't expecting those to be my first words on this tonight I um yeah look a year ago I was not thinking about this at all honestly not even a tiny bit was I thinking that Serena Williams would come back to play tennis yeah I just it wasn't on my radar at all I think in terms of like big news I think those you know that that Djokovic news had such like worldwide news political cut through that i'm not sure this this gets there but just in terms of for a tennis story it's absolutely enormous i mean i the the standard i always go to is waking up and finding out that ash party had retired like that's the one that i still remember the most as being like the most shocking the most like what is what is going on kind of thing but this is right there with that I would say it's it's huge it's Serena for me this is only

6:51Matt Roberts: less shocking and surprising than that because it's happened in stages and there were no whispers of it this has been whispered ever since she registered for the doping pool this has been speculated about right and every little bit of speculation every bit of evidence or leak you know that she was practicing she'd been practicing with Alicia Parks every little crumb sort of reduced the shock I suppose a little bit but yeah I mean 12 12 Catherine Whittaker of 12 months ago would have been jaw on the floor about this and I do find it I do find it fascinating just from a sort of study of athletes and retirement point of view.

7:38Matt Roberts: Did you see the quotes from Andy Murray this week who had seen Serena Williams at Queen's? I think it was Queen's. Maybe it was at Wimbledon. Somewhere he was hitting with Jack Draper, who we'll talk about later. He's obviously coaching Jack Draper at the moment. And he crossed paths with Serena Williams. And he was relaying this in one of the interviews he was doing, I think with the BBC. and Serena said to him don't don't you miss it and he said actually no to my great surprise I don't find myself missing it at all and that was how we found him when we interviewed him a few months ago I was really pleasantly surprised by how little he seemed to miss playing tennis and Serena said to him really I miss it so much every day and like part of me loves that like I want them all to love the sport so much that they can't bear to leave it.

8:28But there's also a part of me that feels kind of sad about that,

8:33Matt Roberts: like Serena Williams, who can do anything in the world that she wants. She wants to do the one thing she probably can't do anymore. And that's the, I don't know, it's beautiful, but it's also just a tiny bit sad. I mean, that's the rub with being an athlete, isn't it? With sport, that it's limited period only. I mean, yeah, a decade on the Champions Tour will teach you that, David.

9:06David Law: Yeah, I think the difference is that Andy Murray rung out every drop until his body could take no more. I don't think Serena was in that position. She had other priorities in her life. I don't think she was the player that she was by any means. And she was declining. And I think it was tough to decline. But she stopped not just for that reason. She stopped for a specific reason. She wanted to change her life. and um i think she now is is at a position where she she knows she's still got potentially more in the tank you know even at the age she is she thinks she's got more in the tank andy murray didn't andy murray was done and and so i understand that i think that this is that this is her ringing out the last drops but also for you know she said she she wants her kids to see her play and stuff like that but i think that there is a burning desire to just i think she's feeling good i think she wants to see andy murray had that period he had his retirement press conference and then he then he wanted to see can i can i get a metal hip like bob bryan and come back and play and win and he actually you know he did all right i mean he didn't do what he used to do but he did all right and i think that now he's at peace and i think some players i think it doesn't matter how much they ring out they can never come to terms with it it's not it's not the same for all so do

10:42Matt Roberts: you think both of you do you think just finding out whatever the answer might be just finding out how much is left will be enough for serena we asked uh we asked matthew uh who we work with at Wimbledon, whose accreditation I collected today and who we can't wait to see on Thursday, who's a massive Serena and Venus fan. We asked him how he felt about the comeback and he said, Serena doesn't play for anything other than winning. So what's this about? Because it's surely not plausible that it could be about winning Grand Slam titles, right? Or am I wrong?

11:32Catherine Whitaker: Well, in her words, you know, she said the other week, didn't she? It's not about winning. I don't have anything to prove. I'm everything to gain. I want my kids to see me play. That was what she said the other week. Do you buy that? I think it's part of it. I do think there's more to it than that. I don't really think it's necessarily about winning big titles again and winning Wimbledon again. I think there's a road that she can get out tennis-wise, what she still wants, without that, I think. I could be wrong, but I could imagine her having some fulfilling moments if she wins matches and gets a bit of momentum going and starts to feel the things she used to feel.

12:21I could imagine that being satisfying for her to a degree

12:27Catherine Whitaker: and with her family watching her. I think there's something that she can get out of this. I hope so because I really don't think she's going to be winning major titles and big events, you know. Like I think she can win some matches probably. I'm nervous about the first match being on grass without any practice on grass, you know like a lot of people have been citing the example of martina navratilova haven't they in 2004 coming back and the thing is she played on clay first she played some warm-up tournaments and singles on clay before the slam and then the grass i think she actually had a wild card into eastbourne qualifying it looked like she wasn't in the eastbourne main draw she was in qualifying she played a little bit and then she plays at wimbledon like she got she got some matches and I know Serena's had the doubles, but I sort of think she would have been hoping for a bit more than two matches of doubles.

13:25Catherine Whitaker: She obviously couldn't play many with Mboko because of Mboko's injury and then she lost with Mukava. I'm just a bit tense about the fact that it's on grass that she's making the singles come back because of the movement. Because I think the movement is going to be the main thing we're watching for and looking out for. She can still serve like a dream. When the ball's in the slot, she can still hit it like a dream. but the movement and on grass that fresh grass at Wimbledon I still have images of when she went down against Sassnovich what was that five years ago and the Harmony Tan match was was a struggle you know like these things are lodged in my brain so I'm just a bit nervous from from that perspective I would say about the comeback being on grass

14:13Matt Roberts: objectively and logically it's it's not a sensible way to do a comeback is it like it's it's a hollywood it's the hollywood comeback playbook i i totally think that's fine i i i think it's up to serena how she wants to do i understand why she hasn't got an appetite to go and play a one two five somewhere to try and get matches in or you know to even go to eastbourne like you Serena Williams I'm not sure how much she loved Eastbourne the time that she played there I think she stayed in London didn't she and commuted back and forth justice for Eastbourne I love I love Eastbourne but you know wasn't Serena Williams back that's absolutely fine but it definitely in terms of building something and what we know about comebacks and how deep the field is it's definitely not like the sensible way to do this but i guess she thinks time isn't on her side david i need to get this show on the road you know if i if i faff around i'll only be another few months or months or years older i've just got to i've just got to do this thing now strike while the iron's hot yeah i i mean i am a little bit surprised that she didn't play

15:27David Law: any singles it is an incredible move isn't it to just go from nothing in four years match-wise to singles at Wimbledon okay fine I mean it's cool but it is like wow um so yeah absolutely and and yeah I mean it is a bit a bit concerning because I don't I don't want her to not be able to play, just not be able to compete or not look remotely like she used to look as a tennis player. And it may not be logical, but I kind of feel like she will be quite good. I just sort of think she might be. What's quite good? Well, I think it depends on who she plays, but I think she could win a couple of matches if she played players that weren't a nightmare.

16:29Matt Roberts: Yeah, I mean, look, I want to speculate about this for hours, but it's really hard until we have the draw. The draw, the Wimbledon draw is on Friday. Matt already annually is at a sort of level of excitement about the Wimbledon draw that's like borderline soiling himself. I'm worried about him for Friday.

16:49Catherine Whitaker: I can't get more excited about the Wimbledon draw. Like there's nowhere to go. Everyone just, everyone else just needs to come with me now. It's going to be, it's going to be like collective excitement now.

17:00David Law: Come on, Matt, you are going to find a new level for Serena Williams.

17:04Catherine Whitaker: I guess so, but I'm already like 10 out of 10.

17:08Matt Roberts: Matt isn't Hollywood about the draw. That's the difference between Matt and Serena. Don't get ill, Matt. I would like to do as much speculating as we can do without the draw. Okay. there's lots there's lots of factors here there's how competitive she really is in tennis terms in singles I have big doubts about that I think there are players in in the there are going to be players in the draw that she will be able to beat purely on tennis terms there are some British wild cards in there quite frankly quite frankly I'd back her against Katie Swan would you two not back her against Katie Swan I'd back her against Katie Swan um you know as Matt said you know the the serve the serve is there she can get the first strike in you know she's obviously hitting the ball well in practice that's what she's been that's I think while she's been holding off a few days making the decision she wanted to make sure that it felt good and felt good in practice but I think I think it's going to be a struggle to beat too many of the players in the field just on pure tennis terms because I think the field is so strong and I think Father Time is is the only player in the history of sport that's undefeated but I do think aura is a big factor I think a whole lot of players would, good players even, could absolutely Absolutely shit themselves.

18:44Matt Roberts: And, I mean, I can't imagine anything more compelling to watch than, like, a top ten player just totally shitting the bed because it's Serena Williams down the other end. Like, don't you think that's a... Oh, I think that's a huge possibility. That's a really plausible scenario. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

19:04Catherine Whitaker: And I think, the thing is, I think that potentially runs dry a little bit as the tournament goes on. I think it's a very big factor in the first round. And I think it's a pretty big factor from there on in. But I think if a top player can get her in the third or fourth round when the shock factor's gone, we're into the tournament now, the top players, I think that might be where you see the level difference and just how big the deficit is now for Serena in terms of the movement. But if she gets one of those top players in the first round...

19:45Matt Roberts: Do you want that? Do you want her to get something really winnable?

19:50Catherine Whitaker: I think I want chaos.

19:51Matt Roberts: Or do you want her to get Shante?

19:53Catherine Whitaker: I think I want chaos at this point. I think I want drama.

19:57David Law: Matt just wants the sound in the draw. Matt, what's the sound in the draw when Serena Williams draws...

20:04Matt Roberts: What's maximum chaos then? What's your dream scenario?

20:09Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, probably a Savalenka or a Svantec. Let's be honest, it's probably one of them, isn't it? I mean, Coco is mind-boggling. I don't think I want that, really. But that would be just crazy. Yeah, the Nissimova. don't go anywhere near an isomova is basically what is basically what i'm saying

20:33David Law: david what do you want i want her to get a good draw like what's a good draw

20:43Catherine Whitaker: is genuinely is paolini at this stage a good a good draw for anyone that doesn't know the

20:49Matt Roberts: law here three years ago venus williams was offered uh was was given a singles wild card into Wimbledon and we were speculating it was a show just for friends of the pod wasn't it so it was a safe space we were being you know we were being loose I think it was actually it was a

21:06Catherine Whitaker: rehearsal right it wasn't even it was a rehearsal that people were tuned into yeah but like I don't

21:14Matt Roberts: know like 10 people right yeah and it's friends and family but anyway it's become part of part Anyway, we asked David, this was three years ago, who would be a good draw for Serena Williams. I put him on the spot. I demanded a name and he plucked out of nowhere Jasmine Paolini. And folks, it didn't age well. But at the time, it was an unremarkable take. She was a good draw at the time. It's just time hasn't been kind to David.

21:43David Law: Shortly after she reached the final. Okay.

21:48Matt Roberts: So now, David, I'm going to put you on the spot again.

21:51David Law: I want Serena Williams to draw Sinja Kraus, 92 in the world, from Austria, never won a Grand Slam match, prepared for clay last year at a futures event on clay, and then lost in the first round of qualifying at Wimbledon. Have you found this female Federico Correa, David? I think she's a perfectly capable player but on grass yes I've looked her up I've got all the details she's 1 meter 75 and um I think Serena could take her out so that's who I want I think

22:36Matt Roberts: the nightmare draw for Serena is a lower ranked you know if she loses to Sabaleng if she gets if she gets the roughest possible draw and loses to Sabalenka, fine. Anybody can lose to Sabalenka. Nobody's going to, I mean, of course, we'll analyse how she looked on the day, etc. But in terms of the result, nobody's going to, that's not going to reflect on Serena Williams in any type of way. I think the nightmare for her is a lower-ranked player for whom it would bruise Serena's ego if she lost, but that won't be at all intimidated and is tricky. You all know who I'm thinking of, right?

23:21Catherine Whitaker: Say it.

23:22Matt Roberts: It's Laura Siegmund. Laura Siegmund would rig that draw to get Serena Williams if she could. She would live for that day.

23:33David Law: Would she rather have Serena Williams or Senior Krauss?

23:37Matt Roberts: I honestly believe if I know Laura, and I think I do,

23:44Matt Roberts: I think she'd rather have Serena Williams She lives for that shit Yeah And look there aren't many Laura Siegmans out there But there are a few Yeah And I think that's the real nightmare For Serena

23:59Catherine Whitaker: I think like Again I was having a think about possible names And Craig Cheekova came to mind As someone that I think would be a bit of a nightmare For her Do you know what I mean? I'm not sure she's intimidated really and she's so good and she can play clever tennis I think that's a problem if she were to get a great cheek of her I think a funny draw would be Tom Janovich roll it back to her last match from 2022 that would be interesting or and look three

24:36Matt Roberts: wins have to happen between now on Friday for this to be possible, but as if the fates are aligning, poor old Jodie Burridge had to pull out of qualifying today with illness, which means sneaking into the qualifying draw at the last minute is Harmony Tan.

24:56David Law: What about if it was tomorrow?

24:58Matt Roberts: Can you imagine?

25:02Matt Roberts: Can you imagine if it was Harmony Tan? Do you want to see that match again? We re-watched it last year didn't we and it was horrible but like utterly compelling

25:15David Law: no i think that would be a bad scene for serena as well if she comes through three rounds of qualifying the way she slides the ball about i don't think that's a good draw at all

25:26Matt Roberts: someone young and fearless that's tough isn't it like an ivy jovich tough what do you think about Emma Raducanu should I just name every women's tennis ball and you can tell me how they would respond to them not good for who David

25:48David Law: not good for Serena

25:50Matt Roberts: oh for Serena because she won't be intimidated

25:54David Law: Raducanu's good on grass absolutely she'll make a move yeah keep it low Havlenska can you imagine that'd be pretty wild

26:12Matt Roberts: what's the best top 10 player that she could draw Serena from a Serena winning point of view is it Anisimova sorry Matt

26:28David Law: It probably is. Yes, I think it is. Somebody who would get a bit wound up by it all and a stand and deliver match, you know. Come on then, let's see who can hit the ball hardest.

26:42Matt Roberts: More, just because what a dream of a story. Look, we're going to talk about this. Our next show after this is Thursday. We're daily from that point onwards. We're going to be talking about this plenty, but I'm not quite ready to move on just yet, although we do have a lot else to talk about. Where do you think this goes from here? Because playing one Wimbledon isn't the end game, right? Do you think Serena is returning to the tour? Do you think this is building up to the US Open? Yeah. Good question that.

27:15Catherine Whitaker: In my mind, it's that, and then we see where we are. Like, I think, you know, she's been talking, hasn't she, about like the summer and putting it in those terms. And like, I really don't think Serena is going to be playing any events after the U S open. So I think this season, it extends the U S open. I think she'll play probably a warmup to that. I could see a, I could see her maybe entering a tournament in the U S ahead of the U S open. And then I think she'll tennis in the land. I was thinking more Cincinnati. but potentially tennis in the land. And then I think...

27:58Matt Roberts: Well, they're both in Ohio. Big for Ohio either way.

28:01Catherine Whitaker: And then I think she sees where she is after the US Open. And honestly, I don't think she knows at this point. I'd be stunned if she'd planned it out more than that. I don't know that I'm going to try and... I feel like Serena's always dropping little hints and is playful. Like even if you go back to 2022, she never said she was retiring. She very specifically used the words evolving away. She told us, didn't she? Left it open. You know, like I was so, as I said, it's hugely surprising. But I just think Serena's always playing around with you a little bit.

28:41Matt Roberts: She is. And she gives the impression, you know, in her little back and forth such you had with Ben Rothenberg this week in Berlin and so on, that it's all sort of playful and whimsical. But it's also incredibly planned and strategic and has been planned for months. Like this is the most corporate comeback you've ever seen. You know, there's, you know, there's, I don't quite know what they are. I assume they're aimed at people younger than me, but some like AI card type things I saw online. And obviously there's the GLP-1 drug that she's promoting or has promoted in the past and her husband is invested in that I've expressed my anxiety and discomfort about on previous podcasts.

29:29Matt Roberts: Like this is a very strategically planned, staged, managed event, this comeback.

29:39David Law: to the point where I wondered today when the announcement came through is she genuinely not sure whether she's going to come back until the last second is she thinking I'll give myself the absolute maximum amount of time and then I'll let everybody know because I needed to make sure my game was where it needed to be or was she thinking tell you what it'd be pretty dramatic if I left it till the absolute last second and was the only wild card left

30:09Matt Roberts: she didn't want to be announced alongside harriet dart did she and again just like not playing eastbourne fair enough you're serena williams but like well even when like news of

30:20Catherine Whitaker: her potential comeback leak last year she denied it didn't she she wanted she wanted to do it on

30:26Matt Roberts: on her terms yeah yeah but the doping pool doesn't like if we've learned anything from this is that the doping pool doesn't like.

30:37Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, that Reddit user. So we see our Federer.

30:40Matt Roberts: If we're proper tennis journalists, should we be combing the doping pool list weekly?

30:52David Law: I think we can probably rely on somebody else to just let us know.

30:55Matt Roberts: That is what Reddit is for. It's all right. My dad is very active on Reddit. He'll let me know if there's any activity. before we reluctantly move on for now at least we have 18 daily pods coming your way from Thursday so plenty of time to talk about this before we move on anything further to say about Serena and the comeback

31:21David Law: I'm pumped

31:25Matt Roberts: you're always pumped David I've got the t-shirt on to prove it go and show everyone well everyone listening anyway it's not great radio is it but that's for the benefit of the tape that's david turning around lifting up his t-shirt and showing in big green lettering the words pumped and that that shirt is available from our shop there you go link in the show notes as is my shirt

31:54David Law: yeah matt's got the backhand list on his on the sleeve of his but it's looking a little bit apologetic at the moment there was a brief hang on was that then this some overtake she was she was back in america yeah i thought oh my god she's not going to play wimbledon but she's

32:12Matt Roberts: she's back in london matt yeah and now now probably very anxious about the draw

32:18Catherine Whitaker: and like she was already coming back to the place where she last played a match and lost six love six love like there's a lot there's a lot going on yeah a lot going on i think i am intrigued i like i haven't been sitting here wondering for four years like what this serena would be doing against the current field it just hasn't been something that had really crossed my mind like women's tennis is in such a good place i've not thought oh wouldn't it be great to still have serena but like to be really honest now it's here I am intrigued and I am looking forward to Friday's draw so much

33:03Matt Roberts: yep totally intrigued all in on the story uh can't be brilliant yeah yeah I cannot resist the drama okay that is it for part one we'll be back in just a moment in part two to talk about Dennis.

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35:28Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast or tonight's tennis podcast, as it turns out. Let's head to Haller now to talk about one of the two men's ATP 500 events that have been taking place this week. Won by Francis Tiafoe beating fellow American good friend Taylor Fritz in the final 6-4, 6-4. We'll talk about Fritz in a moment and his route through to the final. In particular, those victories over Ben Shelton and Alexander Zverev back to back. But Francis Tiafoe, David, I know you watched this final. I had Taylor Fritz down as quite a heavy favourite, actually, going into this. And I think that's a huge win for Tiafoe.

36:12David Law: Yeah, I think anybody who has been across their head-to-head over the years and seen previous matches of theirs would also have made Taylor Fritz a heavy favourite. He had won the last seven matches that these two had played. Seven won overall, so Tiafoe had only got the first match win on the board. And he was always too consistent for Tiafoe. And, you know, there was that heartbreaking semifinal for Tiafoe where he thought he'd got the win there at the US Open. And to be honest, he choked in that match. And I think Fritz helped him choke a little on the way, you know, but it was one of those that I think Tiafoe really hurt him that he didn't win that and reach the US Open final.

36:57David Law: at the start of this year he was being very direct and honest about how he'd let himself go really as a professional and hadn't been fit enough, hadn't been able to last the course over really long matches anymore and that it was time to stop with the excuses and just turn up really and he'd got a new regime, a new team behind him and he's built his way up I thought when he played that match at the French Open against Arnaldo that he would come away from that with real regrets because he was heavily ahead. I watched so much of the fifth set. It was brilliant stuff, but he just couldn't get over the line.

37:41David Law: It was almost like he lost his belief at the end because Arnaldo was getting to everything. This week, I've watched a lot of Tiafoe. I watched him play Oji Aliassim in a real sort of duke-em-out match from the baseline. And Oji Aliassim was playing well and had three match points. But it was won by Tiafou on a tie-break, 14-12. It was a brilliant, brilliant contest. Then they played in the semifinals, Tiafou and Altmaier. And he absolutely destroyed Altmaier in a way that I don't really associate with Tiafou as being this real efficient winner. but to use one of your expressions Catherine this was faff free tennis or what he was doing today was as well he kind of at the French Open against Arnaldi he kind of got himself ahead by putting away the drop shots and just playing toe-to-toe tennis because Arnaldi was too quick in this match it was like he was embodying what John McEnroe talks about when he talks about how he used to play tennis I'm not going to give you the same ball twice.

38:52David Law: Fritz is a player who loves to get into a rhythm. And if you get him in a rhythm like he had against Alexander Zverev in the previous match, the semifinals, he's so tough to put away. You've got to either knock him off the court, which is really, really tough to do. Probably people like Sinner can do it. Or you've just got to kind of make him malfunction a bit. And I think that's what Tiafoe did today. He was hitting so cleanly from the baseline. His serve was destructive. But then, you know, he'll hit a big forehand cross-court inside out. Then he hit a real knifed backhand slice deep that Fritz sort of has to dig out.

39:33David Law: Then he gives him the off-pace shot with the backhand to bring him forwards and just completely would discombobulate him. I think some of it was Fritz probably being a bit out of gas as well because he'd had long matches against Shelton and Zverev. But I give all the credit to Tiafoe. And he looks like a proper, I mean, it's sort of, you know, a 2026 grass court, or it's not the classical grass court specialist. But he looks a specialist on the surface. He looks like a nightmare on the surface to me. And I feel like he eyeballed this chance at the French Open with Alcaraz out and with Sinner out.

40:14David Law: Now, obviously, he's got Sinner in this draw. And if he gets the wrong part of the draw and ends up playing Sinner, he's probably going to lose because Sinner's just better. And there are some other players that, again, have really good head-to-heads against Tiafov, people like Zverev. But I actually back Tiafov to be, if he can stay fit and just keep this mindset, I think he could be in the mix at Wimbledon. I really do. I feel like he looks fantastic right now on the surface. And I don't find other people overwhelmingly convincing. Even Sinner, simply because the last time we saw him, he was nearly carried off the court and he hasn't played since.

41:02David Law: And he is, look, he's going to go in as a heavy favourite. Of course he is. But he hasn't played any event. Don't know what he's going to look like. there's no Alcraz, don't know what Djokovic will turn up like. Tiafoe to me feels like a really good shout this year to cause mayhem.

41:22Matt Roberts: If we were doing a sweepstake, I'm very into sweepstakes because I'm doing well in our World Cup sweepstakes. If we were doing a sweepstake for Wimbledon, David, who would you rather draw from the hat, Taylor Fritz or Francis Tiafoe?

41:36David Law: I'd probably rather have Tiafoe. I've just got a really good feeling about him at the moment. Wow. Based on what I saw. I've just, I mean, look, I've probably been taken in by him once or twice before. Although, you know, he got to the semis of the US Open the last time I felt like this. But he just, he just feels convincing to me.

42:00Matt Roberts: I mean, he's 28. He looks really motivated. He looks, yeah, it's. I think he's very aware of, you know, I'm 28 now. That's it. I feel like that. I've squandered chances. I remember him saying at Wimbledon either two years ago or three, I think two years ago, it might have even been in the Losing to Clowns press conference because I was in that one. I remember him saying it's this one and it's US Open. He said, I care about the other two majors, but Wimbledon and US Open are different to me. Every time they come around, it's like, okay, this is what I'm playing for right here. And I think 28, you think I've only got so many Wimbledons and US Opens in my prime left.

42:43Matt Roberts: So I'm not sure I'd take him over Fritz, but I like it. Who would you take, Matt?

42:52Catherine Whitaker: I would take Fritz, I think. I think actually the two people I came out of this week feeling the best about heading into Wimbledon relative to where they were, didn't actually win the titles that they were playing in. And that was Fritz and Pagula. I think they had the biggest, to me, moments. For Fritz, it was getting back to where he was, doing his thing again and getting a win finally over Shelton, which was huge. And then showing that he's still the guy that can beat Zverev. And David watched this final more closely than me. But I think that match again over five sets at Wimbledon, deep in a major when Tiafoe's probably got a lot of matches in his legs as well.

43:41Catherine Whitaker: I don't know. I just feel like I'm giving the slight edge to Fritz there. But basically, I would take whoever, if one of them, I would take whoever's not in the center half, you know. And like Alcaraz not being there is huge for both of these players. Tiafoe has lost to Alcaraz at Wimbledon a couple of times, was very close to beating him. He's shown a great level on grass before. He was rushing Alcaraz in an incredible way in that match a couple of years ago. And then, of course, Fritz lost to him in the semis last year. So Alcaraz being there is big for both of them. It's also big for Paul, who had a good week in Queens.

44:23Catherine Whitaker: Big for all these American guys. Paul's lost to Alcaraz at Wimbledon. But Sinner is still there. so I'm still taking the I'm still taking the people who are not in Sinner's half because it's more likely that Sinner I think finds his groove finds his form and finds his level than what happened to him at the French Open happens again it's a possibility it's opened my mind to it when it's just Sinner everything feels a little bit shakier the foundations of that draw that It feels like something could happen and it definitely could. But I just think Sinner was, Sinner's very, very good and very, very good at Wimbledon and on grass.

45:07Catherine Whitaker: And I feel like we shouldn't forget all that just because of one very hot day in Paris, you know? So yeah, it comes down to the draw. I'm taking whoever's on the other side, but I think both of them had huge weeks and enhance their position going into Wimbledon.

45:25Matt Roberts: Tell you what, Yannick Sinner is pleased that Wimbledon moved back a week, isn't he? Because it's going to be 40 degrees Celsius here for a couple of days this week. And that would be, well, on recent evidence, catastrophic for Yannick Sinner. Alexander Zverev lost to Taylor Fritz as expected I guess given their head to head he's won seven in a row against Fritz now if you count the Labour Cup no need to debate that now but there you go there's the caveat if you want it even without the Labour Cup it's an overwhelming head to head at this point why can't Alexander Zverev beat Taylor Fritz, David?

46:13David Law: Well, I do think the history plays a part, and the fact that he hasn't beaten him for ages, and Fritz is so solid. Fritz just bans down the hatches on his backhand. He serves well. He's got to, you know, there aren't many places for Zverev to go, and actually Zverev probably needs this new version of himself to beat Fritz, i.e. the big hitting, I'm going to take the ball on guy, because just rallying with Fritz isn't going to get it done. Like, it might do, but Fritz just doesn't really go away. I think the main thing is, I don't think Zverev was really that well in this match. You know, he didn't look well.

46:58David Law: I don't know whether it's injury, whether it's illness. He said he had problems with his blood sugar, didn't he? Blood sugar. He said his back also locked up,

47:05Matt Roberts: but those two things weren't unrelated.

47:07David Law: It didn't look well. And yet he still won the first set. And now I also think Fritz isn't quite where he was. I mean, I think it's important to say that too. I mean, he's working his way back. But I think stylistically it is a problem for Zverev. And he is a bit in his head, you know. And it's not, I'm not surprised. I did kind of think that maybe this would be the ones Zverev did win because he's just won the French Open, you know, and he's flying on confidence and maybe the shackles are off, etc., etc. But, you know, he's probably a bit wiped out generally. And so I don't read too much into it in all honesty.

47:44David Law: But I do think Wimbledon might come too soon for Zverev in terms of being at his absolute freshest and best. I mean, he has just won a Grand Slam for the first time in his life. You know, that is quite a moment.

47:58Matt Roberts: If I threw Ben Shelton into that sweepstake, both of you, big time Ben, always shows up at slams, apart from the last one. Who would you take? Sticking with Tiafoe, David?

48:13David Law: Yeah, yeah, it'd be similar. I mean, I do think, I mean, I'm slightly worried about how much Shelton's played. Like he was creaking a bit in that match against Fritz. I mean, brilliant effort to get it as close as he did. But he looked like his knee was hurting. He looked exhausted. How much do you want to play before Wimbledon? I mean, look, he's got a week off, right so he should be fine and he's looking more convincing on the surface i just look i miss carlos alcaraz like everybody does anybody who's watched this guy play wants to see him play but i do find myself fascinated about what it what it does to everybody else's outlook and horizon um and shelton's on that list you know he's another one him and tiafa they miss their boat at the French Open, and yet they've still got a bit of an opening here if they fall in the right half of the draw, you know?

49:12David Law: And it's interesting to me.

49:16Catherine Whitaker: It's pretty impressive bounce backs, I think, from both of them and also Sarundalo. You know, Sarundalo squandered an incredible opportunity at the French Open, lost to Schweider, didn't he? And, you know, he's come back and won the biggest title of his career. These guys, they've responded well. It's now they just get another shot at a slam. and whether they can deal with that moment better if they face it again.

49:41Matt Roberts: Just before we move on to talk about that, Sarindolo's victory at Queen's, the doubles in Halle. It was won by Albano Olivetti and Theo Arribage, 7664. New name on me, that one. Over Daniel Altmaier and Joel Fonseca, who reached the final. And just before we move on from Halle, a word for the shadow. can't let another 51 weeks pass without mentioning just the most egregious shadow in tennis Matt any further comment?

50:17Catherine Whitaker: Oh no it's terrible isn't it it's the roof isn't it they've got the roof in Hallow and it casts this very odd shadow onto the court there's lines everywhere yeah it's a bad one it's a really bad one

50:33Matt Roberts: for two hours every day it's unwatchable and no one seems to think that's a problem your product is unwatchable anyway on to queens where there is no roof they would love a roof but the upside of that is no shadow the title was won by Francisco Disco Sarundolo as he is known at the Labour Cup. He beat Tommy Paul in the final 6-7, 6-4, 6-3. What a week for Francisco Sarundolo. As Matt said, the bounce back from the French Open, winning a grass court title, doing it over Tommy Paul, who again, similar to Haller, I think Paul was a fairly strong favourite going into this final, won the title before a couple of years ago.

51:21Matt Roberts: and his first week, David, his first week working with new coach Nicholas Massou. I mean, it's dreamland stuff for Sarundolo.

51:31David Law: And he went straight from sort of practicing on clay and then practicing on hard court and then he ends up on the grass. You know, just because of circumstances, he didn't have a chance to get on grass. Well, it did him the world good, it seems. I mean the first time I sort of watched any of Sir Undelo this week he was 6-2 love up at the time against Jenson Brooks being absolutely flying I'm thinking oh he's making serene work of this draw well every other match was epic and hard work I mean in semi-finals he was set down against Brandon Nakashima fought back to beat him did the same against Tommy Paul I mean it is actually interesting I would have certainly made Paul the favourite for this on grass, you know, because of the surface and because Paul had won the tournament, you know, a couple of years ago.

52:23David Law: But the head-to-head did give me pause for thought. It was one of those sort of head-to-heads that I was sort of surprised to hear about when it actually came through. He was 5-2 up against Paul. This made it 6-2, this win. I don't quite understand that head-to-head. I mean, when I've watched the match today, I started to realize a little bit of the value of that forehand. You know, the sort of good all-round player with a great backhand versus the guy with the absolute blockbuster forehand who's able to just bully things with it. And it is a curious one, but that now makes a bit more sense to me.

53:05David Law: I mean, this was the longest final that Queen's has had in the men's event and the longest match they've had. You know, it wasn't exactly blockbuster names, I don't feel like. They're really good players, but it's not like when they've had Alcraz in the final and Leighton Hewitt and Andy Roddick and all those sort of people winning it. but as an actual tennis match people were letting me know that don't normally watch tennis that they were watching this and they were absolutely engrossed like my mum immediately messaged me after the match to say what a wonderful match she thought it was you know and it was really dramatic stuff and I love it when I mean look we've got a really tight association with Queen's because we worked there all three of us for many many years and I love to see the tournament meaning that much to the two players in the final.

54:03David Law: And you saw Sarundalo. It was just like his best moment of his career and it was brilliant to see and he really deserved it.

54:13Matt Roberts: And his dad was there to watch him win, having boarded a plane for the first time in his life. Fear of flying. But he wanted to be there to see his son hopefully lift the trophy and he was so an amazing little uh cherry on the top of that story vicky's putting photos in the in the youtube and they're gonna make me cry so lovely really really lovely scenes for sarindolo after that win um still as you say a great week for tommy paul i was gonna say yeah i was just on

54:48Catherine Whitaker: just one more thing on sarindolo like it was such a shock to me that he'd won a grass court tournament before and actually beaten Paul in the final at Eastbourne in 2023 I had no recollection of that whatsoever but interesting that like he'd lost six matches in a row on grass coming into this week you know like that's that's more what I thought his record was on this surface you know um but he's had these two runs at Eastbourne a few years ago and now at Queen's where he can really put it together and string it together and i think he does have a game with that forehand that can do damage on on any surface really if he's if he's not getting in his own way he gets in his own way a lot so it gets very tight and we saw that even in this match the thing is tommy paul got really

55:37Matt Roberts: tight as well and therefore that it was a ropey but compelling for the match yeah you know it took

55:46Catherine Whitaker: so many match points.

55:47Matt Roberts: Who is Spicer here? Yeah.

55:49Catherine Whitaker: I'd never trust the Tommy Paul forehand in those pressure situations. And again, it got pretty clunky. But yeah, it's, yeah, as you said, the biggest tournament of his, the biggest title of his career so far and very impressive. But I do agree that Tommy Paul also had a nice week. It's still an important week. Yeah,

56:11Matt Roberts: good week for him. Less good for Alex de Menor. He ended up losing to Brandon Nakashima in the quarterfinals, he looks so burnt out to me. I know it was Queen's last year when he lost early and talked about being burnt out then. And he does bounce back well. He always shows up for Australia and that part of the season, no matter what the preceding weeks, months and year has been like, he always shows up for that. But yeah, he looks utterly frazzled to me and it felt similar to his loss in Paris. So I think a bit of a tough time for Alex de Menor. Last dispatch from Queen's, a follow-up to what we discussed on our last show, David, involving Corentin Moutet and his foul-mouthed outburst, albeit intended to be a funny one, in his on-court interview at Queen's after beating Giovanni Mpeshi Perikar in the first round.

57:12Matt Roberts: we now know that Korentan Mute has received a fine of$40 ,000 for unsportsmanlike conduct. For reference, that is the same amount that Alexander Zverev was fined for his violent attack on the umpire's chair in Acapulco a few years ago. In fact, that was two separate fines of$20 ,000. So as a singular fine, this is right up there. On the scale of fines, this is one of the higher ones available. He is going to be appealing it. My George fell to the floor, David, when I saw that he was fined his whole prize money for the week, pretty much. I mean, I think if he'd been fined a few thousand dollars, slap on the wrist, fine, I get it.

58:05Matt Roberts: I am not offended remotely by swearing. I think I love swearing. I found it funny. But I get that some people are, and those are the rules. And fine, slap him on the wrist. But to treat it like it's a graver offense than things we see all the time that are genuinely threatening and aggressive or reckless is bonkers to me. Talk about a sport with its priorities in the wrong place.

58:36David Law: hmm yeah i just think it's ridiculous just first of all it was really funny i thought it was hilarious and i sort of wanted to give him a pat on the back for putting the tournament on the map in a quiet week and i thought the you know the only person david would have worried about not find him i mean i would he would have come Often I'd have said that was funny. Don't do it again. But that was funny.

59:08Matt Roberts: Can I just speak up on something Cara has said in the chat and also that I've heard other people say was that they think it was really disrespectful to Jenny Drummond, the interviewer, who, as we said on the show last time, handled it brilliantly. I don't want to speak for Jenny and how she experienced it, but I have done that job. And I'm also pretty sensitive to, you know, men putting women in difficult positions generally but also in in situations like that I didn't read it that way at all and I don't think that's how I would have experienced it in the moment I think I would have I think I would have found it funny and gone along with it with a twinkle in my eye and I don't think there was anything He wasn't anything aggressive or unpleasant about it.

59:58Matt Roberts: He was trying to be funny.

1:00:01David Law: Yeah, and you said it perfectly, the twinkle in the eye. That's what he had. Are we not able to have a twinkle in the eye? And look, the only person I worried about or might have worried about in that scenario really was Jenny asking the questions and being put on the spot. but she showed how good she is I think at doing that job by reacting to it and handling it

1:00:28Matt Roberts: and that is part of the job you don't see it very often because there are a lot of people doing those jobs that aren't very good at it and aren't very nimble and they go there with their questions lined up and they ask them and they don't react to what the player says they can't handle curveballs but that's how it should look that's how those interviews should look when curveballs come come their way she dealt with it really well no one was harmed it was all fine i'd have had no problem with the with the tours

1:00:58David Law: or the tournament coming out with a statement and saying look we've we're not going to fine him or okay we're going to find him two thousand dollars which is a special special procedure whatever just to make it clear you're not you're not allowed to do that right so don't do it again Don't copy, all right? But we're not going to go any further because this was funny and it was basically harmless. Let's just move on and talk about something important.

1:01:25Matt Roberts: Unsportsmanlike conduct is a... Joke. ...is quite a tag to put on it, isn't it? The doubles at Queen's was won by Marcelo Aravalo and Matej Pavic, the fourth seeds. They beat Henry Patton and Harry Heliovarus 6-2, 6-3 in the final. The women's events this week, what a week in Berlin. They had a stacked field. They had an awesome quarterfinal line-up. The title ended up being won by Linda Noskova, who beat Jessica Baguda 6-4, 4-6, 6-3 in the final, a final that was delayed by several hours today due to very dramatic storms in Germany, which caused damage to the venue's electrical and power systems as well as flooding on site.

1:02:14Matt Roberts: They did well to get this match played at all, quite frankly. And Linda Nozkova will make her top 10 debut tomorrow as a result of winning this title. Matt has been hyping Nozkova for a while. Not loudly. I'm not sure it's necessarily anything that you found a big audience for yet. But I do know that you have always...

1:02:39Catherine Whitaker: I told... I was asked for a big prediction for 2026 and I panicked and went, uh, Noskova.

1:02:48Matt Roberts: Noskova to do... Was it Noskova to win Berlin?

1:02:51Catherine Whitaker: No, I actually think it was top 10. Ah, there you go.

1:02:57Matt Roberts: I've teed you up for some gloating, Matt. Off you go.

1:03:01Catherine Whitaker: She's really good. She's a really good player, Noskova. She's got so many ways to hurt you, I think. I feel like this match was a real match, Noskova-Pagula, against people with underrated hands. I think we think of Noskova and Pagula as big hitters, and fundamentally they are, but both of them have hands, and I think that's why they're good on grass. They can deal with balls coming at them low. They're comfortable hitting a slice. you know like and Noskova's also got one of the most damaging first serves on on the WTA tour like it's a real weapon that shot her percentage is not always brilliant but the effectiveness of it is always there and it was particularly particularly good in this one and yeah I think this has been coming I think she's been building and I think grass really suits her it's Czech season isn't it grass court season they always pop up we've got we've got Buscova as well winning a title you know it all it all makes sense um yeah she's got it she's a good combination of touch and power Noscova and you know she had that breakout win a few years ago over Svantec at the Australian Open and I remember them thinking okay I don't I don't think this is a player who's going to absolutely like dominate the sport but I think is really dangerous and you know she's had she's had difficulty in her in her life as well and she's only 21 I think she's lost she's lost her her mother very young and I think that's been a sort of difficult thing for her to navigate but I feel like in the last nine months or so she's really gone up a level and is is dangerous to a lot of players.

1:04:46Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, even before this, she beat Ayala, who was having like a career week beating Rabatkinner and Svitolina. Like, Noskova isn't as big a name as those two, but is still a really, really big challenge. And I think as we go into this Wimbledon, where the favourites, there's a lot of uncertainty around them. You know, Sabalenka, Rabatkinner, Stjantek hasn't played since the French Open, hasn't been in great form. like Noskova is is primed in my book to take advantage of that potentially I'm not saying I'm not predicting I'm not predicting Noskova to win Wimbledon to be clear but I but I I would be tempted by the mix for Noskova I think she's I think she's that level of of dangerous you know and I think Wimbledon could be you know it's been won by Craig Chicova and Vondroshova and you know Rebacuene back in 2022 wasn't quite the four, you know, like those sorts of players on the fringes of the mix have actually been the ones who have pushed through and won Wimbledon recently, you know.

1:05:53Matt Roberts: So it feels like a Wimbledon where somebody like Nozkova could end up winning it, doesn't it? A lot of people are talking about this Wimbledon in those terms. It's just whether it is Nozkova or if it's.

1:06:06Catherine Whitaker: Well, I also think Pagula is in that conversation.

1:06:10Matt Roberts: Pagula, right. Let's talk about Pagula. I mean, she has reached a Grand San final. She's a, you know, in the top 10 and top five, different bracket. But this does seem to be slightly different territory for Jessica Pagula. She beat Irina Sabalenka in the semifinals, 6-4, 6-7, 6-love. Okay, didn't back it up and win the final, but my God, how good was she in that semifinal to beat Sabalenka? Unbelievable.

1:06:40Catherine Whitaker: So good. But that six love set is nothing like the Schneider six love set. I think there's a concern there for Sabalenka. I definitely think you can't write that off totally as all Pagula. Because I think Sabalenka at her best still finds a way to get into that set. But Pagula was awesome. And it's so interesting what she says about, I mentioned it on the pod the other day, have german grass versus british grass and wimbledon i just think it's interesting how she's changed up her schedule this this this time right when she's played berlin in the past she's often then gone to play eastbourne and you know that's potentially eaten into her wimbledon prep as well this time she played berlin she's done her thing there she got to the final she's been really impressive and now she gets a week practicing at wimbledon and the thing she talks about is the difference is that Wimbledon that two-week event they have to cut the grass a little bit differently they've got it it's got to last the grass and it and it stays longer for maybe a little bit longer there's more grass on it and it is slower than Berlin and it also stays really low and she's been caught out by those things in the past she was saying in her press conference I think this is a good time now for her to try and get used to that a little bit more and finds the form that she's shown at other grass courts events at Wimbledon for the first time.

1:08:09Catherine Whitaker: And as she does, she's categorically in the mix because her level is up there with the very best in the world. It has been all year. Maybe not the clay court swing, but all year she's been so good. The slight issue is that she has a very small tendency to just lay an egg sometimes and just come out a bit flat, You know, in a way that, in a way that like Sabalenka doesn't do. And you trust Sabalenka to get through the first week and be firing on all cylinders. Pagoula's had a few now at slams that have really just caught you out. Coccioretto, Birrell, Burrell, you know, like these are the losses she's taken at slams.

1:08:56Catherine Whitaker: Boisson, even, you know, and she needs to cut those out. But the form, the form is magnificent. Her ability to nullify returns in big serves with her hands. She's aggressive off both wings. She can go line off forehand and backhand. She can get the ball shooting through low. She's a very underrated mover, I think. Her hands are good. It's all there for her. And I do think she's going to have a big Wimbledon. I don't think she's going to flop like she did last year. I'm convinced by the change in approach. I like that. I like when players do something a bit different. They realise that they let an opportunity go and they've changed it up.

1:09:37Catherine Whitaker: And I think that's a smart move.

1:09:39Matt Roberts: Okay. Sweepstake then. Who would you rather have come out of the bag for you? Sabalenka or Pagula? I told you I'm into sweepstakes.

1:09:50David Law: Yeah. God, that's such a good question. I mean, I've still got to go Sabalenka. Yeah, you have to. But I actually think Pagula. Yeah, because she is still the world number one for a reason. She is a perennial Grand Slam sort of lock, isn't she, really, to go deep in a Grand Slam. But I feel like Pagula, it's a little bit like how I feel about Tiafoe in the men's draw. And she's obviously got more authority, really, given her record. but that shooting through of the ball the flat hit for Jessica Begula it should work on the surface and I think you're absolutely right having a week where you just get ready and you come in and you concentrate on this tournament now you've done your prep don't just try and win everything in the lead up just sort yourself out to be at your max I think she's going to have a big win more than two, I really do I could see her going to the final

1:10:55Matt Roberts: That is a legacy pick for Sabalenka, though, isn't it? Because on the basis of recent evidence, she's a worry. She's a concern. I think it's very important to point out that the six love sets in those two defeats were very, very different. But it is still extremely rare for world number ones to lose six love sets. She's done it in back-to-back tournaments now.

1:11:19Catherine Whitaker: And the match before against Barton Kovar was arguably just as much of a worry. I know she got through it.

1:11:27Matt Roberts: Barton Kovar really tightened up in that. Barton Kovar tightened up massively. She was four love down in the second set with Sabalanga. And look, incredible fight from her, incredible grit. She sensed and she knew that Barton Kovar was going to tense up and she did all the right things to kind of make it happen and prey upon it when it did happen. And it was a heck of a match, actually. But she was let off the hook a bit. It was getting away from her very quickly. And you don't often see this from world number ones who have very recently been incredibly dominant. It does feel relatively like quite a rough patch for Sabalenka now.

1:12:12Yeah.

1:12:13David Law: Yeah, I am a bit concerned for her because I just, I wasn't really, I mean, not that you can't lose to Pagula because you can, but to lose like that, and I realise that is largely Pagula's excellence in that third set, but the fact that she got a set and four love down against Barton Kovar, I don't think that that should be overlooked either, really, in the analysis. I still end up feeling like a Grand Slam is different than you, and I think it must be quite hard to come back from the kind of blow, mental blow of what happened at Roland Garros and then be into these far smaller events. And I don't mean to disrespect those events, but she's a big stage player and she's...

1:12:59David Law: I think Wimbledon can get the good vibes back for her. If she could get into the tournament and start to feel herself, I feel like the just the sheer size of the event could have her feeling good again um but not

1:13:18Matt Roberts: going to be the main character though is she not for as long as Serena Williams is in the tournament

1:13:23David Law: I mean yeah I mean I I just I don't feel like I'd normally do going into a grand slam about either draw I just don't feel as sure of what's going to happen like I don't feel like as I said I think Sinner is clearly the best player, but I have question marks about everybody in a way that I don't normally feel like that.

1:13:48Matt Roberts: Paris has made us question everything.

1:13:51Catherine Whitaker: We'll never be the same again.

1:13:53Matt Roberts: If Flavio Caballi can reach a Grand Slam final, then literally anything can happen.

1:13:59Catherine Whitaker: The thing about Savalenka, even as ragged as she's looked in a lot of her recent matches, I still, as you said, Catherine, legacy pick, I still trust her to get through the opening rounds because she's so good. She's upset proof in terms of those opening rounds at majors. She hasn't lost early in forever. But, you know, she hasn't, I don't think she's won a grass court title in her career, right? And like, okay, we've seen players then, you know, be in that position and win Wimbledon. but I've always thought grass makes sense for Sabalenka but I'm starting to think that maybe it's not maybe there's a reason that I'm not seeing as to why the game hasn't always translated to her having her best success on grass I do think even the layers she's added to her game over the past few years and we saw her serve and volleying a bit and I think that's a play for grass and everything and the touch shots, the drop shot I think it's all partly to do with these natural surfaces.

1:15:07Catherine Whitaker: The thing is, though, it's still all about attack, isn't it? It's still all about trying to play the points on her terms. It's just different terms to big striking from the baseline. And I just, in these big pressure matches, I do still have little concern about the fact that it's all on her terms always. like I just think players who are able to just absorb and soak up and say go on then you beat me in this point then you make the play in those pressure situations I think that gets to Sabalenka that she doesn't really have that you know and sometimes she can come through it and she wins Grand Sam titles but we see her involved in a lot more sort of stressful matches than you sort of think she should be in given how good she is and i i just think maybe that layer of her game is something that she could do with having even on a grass court and as much as she's developed her game she hasn't maybe developed that and that leads to the mentality issues that we've talked about so it's the women's draw is so interesting as interesting as the men's is and it really is I agree with David.

1:16:25Catherine Whitaker: It's got a different feel to it, even with what I've said about Sinner because of the other half of the draw. The women's draw, it genuinely feels like the mix is around 10 going into this tournament. There's a lot, I think, who could do serious damage because the favourites are not as convincing at the moment, you know? that feels like the difference in the women's draw at the moment

1:16:57Matt Roberts: In Nottingham the WTA 250 there was one by Marie Burjkova she took out all of our picks from the last show she took out Pliskova in the semi-finals and then she took out sorry other way around she took out Tatiana Maria in the quarter-finals she took out Pliskova in the semi-finals and then she beat Emma Navarro in the final great final there 7-6 4-6 6-2

1:17:24Matt Roberts: you've been nodding David like you had something to say so I left a pregnant pause for your Marie Buskova takes but I might have misinterpreted well I did I did watch uh I did watch some of

1:17:35David Law: her earlier on in the week and was really taken by just how good she looks on this surface have I forgotten that she's really good on this surface blimey she reached a quarter final at Wimbledon

1:17:47Matt Roberts: didn't she a few years ago i remember her her big water bottle was a thing wasn't it is she sneaky

1:17:54David Law: good yes i think she might be sneaky good i think she might be yeah there were moments where maria was trying to chip and charge and like putting balls right on a baseline and just getting past time after time and it was quite a shock really having seen her play at queens and people struggling to pass her like that.

1:18:15Matt Roberts: I'm pretty sure Wimbledon is Buzkova's most successful slam by by far. Round of 16 and a quarter final, Hannah says. That's good enough for me. Thanks, Hannah. Okay, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to look ahead to this week, this final week of grass before Wimbledon. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14.500 use the service now AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

1:19:02Matt Roberts: Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:19:09Catherine Whitaker: Take this as your sign to go. Just get out there and go. This summer at Best Western, get 1 ,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250 ,000 bonus points. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at bestwestern.com. No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, TNCs, and sweeps rules for details.

1:19:35Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast and a look ahead to this week where we start with Eastbourne and the return to competitive action. The long awaited return of Jack Draper with coach Andy Murray in tow. We have been flooded with Murray Draper content this week. It has been everywhere. Murray is a glasses wearer now. He seems to be wearing his glasses more than you wear yours, David.

1:20:07David Law: Yeah, I go through periods of forgetting I'm supposed to wear them and then looking at my phone like sort of, you know, miles away from me and thinking, you know, I really should find those glasses. And then I don't.

1:20:23Matt Roberts: David never wears his glasses. Anyway, Andy Murray's blazing a trail for you. they've been practicing at Wimbledon and at Eastbourne they had a hit with Yannick Sinner Jack Draper had a hit with Yannick Sinner Andy Murray was present and his other coach James Trotman Yannick Sinner also hit with Art of Feast David did you see that?

1:20:45David Law: I did see that

1:20:46Matt Roberts: Art of Feast on a tennis court bombshell news are you trying to not get your hopes up?

1:20:54David Law: Yes I'm trying to not get my hopes up I am failing but I am trying.

1:20:59Matt Roberts: Okay, how high are your hopes for Jack Draper and his comeback with Andy Murray? He says his knee is 100%. That's been the most recent injury that he's been rehabbing. Obviously, there's this ongoing bone bruising issue with the arm, but his most recent absence in the knee. I'm not very hopeful.

1:21:22David Law: I read a good interview with Jack in The Times today with Tom Kershaw, and he said, you know, it was kind of like, judge me at next year's Wimbledon. And I think he's absolutely right. I don't think it's fair to judge Jack Draper at this year's grass court season. I mean, look, good luck to him. You know, I just want to see him be a going concern again as a tennis player. That's the same as I feel for Art of Feast. You know, if you get results, like, feces results were way over and above what i expected when he came back and then but and then i end up thinking well it wasn't worth it you know it wasn't worth the good result i'd rather have had you get half the results but not be fit but not be injured you know and i just waited till next year's wimbledon to hire andy murray then no no i don't think so i think he needs to establish some because i and i don't think there's anything to lose you know andy murray's not going to travel with him by the sounds of things anyway so fine dig into what he can give you feel good out on the court get some basics under your belt so that when you go in off to america if assuming you're fully fit you'll remember all this stuff and you'll be in touch with you and and then you'll be building towards next year i think there's nothing to lose here at all by working with andy murray um yes there's a bit more heightened attention he gets attention anyway and like I said I just think realistically Draper is not going to do too much over the next few weeks I hope he's fit that's all I want yeah

1:23:00Matt Roberts: it still worries me that he didn't play Queens like if it was that touch and go that he needed an extra week yeah to get fit that worries me but I I hope I'm wrong he's got Brandon Nakashima in round one, which is rough, I think. Taylor Fritz is the top seed in Eastbourne. Surely he'll pull out. I don't trust him to pull out. He does like Eastbourne, Fritz, and that's kind of his pre-Wimbledon routine, isn't it? But he's been back-to-back finals the last two weeks. He's got to pull out, hasn't he?

1:23:40Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Like you, I'm not convinced. but I would feel better about his Wimbledon chances from the outside if he pulled out it's just that the way he talks about it he always talks about wanting to play you know a week before the slam and he likes eSpawn and he wants to he's missed so much he wants to play like you've got to trust him that he knows the right decision for him I've probably doubted his decisions in the past

1:24:11Matt Roberts: I'm not sure I do

1:24:15Catherine Whitaker: I think he should pull out

1:24:16Matt Roberts: I mean he has admitted recently he told us didn't he in Paris that he had to be told by his team but I think that was injury related well you're going on your own

1:24:27Catherine Whitaker: that was injury related

1:24:29Matt Roberts: he's got tendonitis no I know but I think

1:24:34Catherine Whitaker: he seems in a lot better place with it than he was a few months ago when he was making that decision he looked a lot better But like, look better physically on court this week.

1:24:44Matt Roberts: It does sort of reveal that his default is just, I always want to play.

1:24:47Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of, I don't know.

1:24:54Matt Roberts: I love that he loves Eastbourne. He loves everywhere, though. Eastbourne's great.

1:24:59Catherine Whitaker: He plays everywhere. I'm not sure it's an Eastbourne thing, really.

1:25:03David Law: Come on, Taylor, learn from Jessica Bagula.

1:25:06Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. But then, you know, the thing is, he's, well, He reached the semis at Wynwood last year, didn't he?

1:25:13Matt Roberts: Yeah. But imagine what he could have done if he didn't play Eastbourne. Yeah, lost to Alcaraz. He would have beaten Alcaraz and Silla back to back. Massive. We'll never know, will we? But that's the real sliding door of men's tennis. Joffin Secker is the second seed in Eastbourne. Possible second round with Matteo Arnaldi there, who qualified for the main draw. And Francisco Sarundolo is the third seed. Another one where he hasn't played as much as Fritz. He hasn't played the back-to-back weeks already, but surely a withdrawal risk for him there. The WTA is also in Eastbourne. It's a 500 for the WTA.

1:25:56Matt Roberts: Jasmine Paolini is the top seed. She has drawn in round one Tatiana Maria. Oh, Jasmine. It's so rough, isn't it? she can't catch a break that's really tough Madison Keyes is the second seed and she's got Talia Gibson in round one that's also pretty tough I think and the third seed is Laura Siegmund warming up preparing for her big Serena Williams match at Wimbledon she's got Sarah Bailick in round one and the fourth seed is Barbora Krejcikova who I'll be keeping an eye on this week she's got Kim Birrell in round one. The WTA is also in Bad Homburg, a 500 event there where Iger Svjantek is the top seed.

1:26:43Matt Roberts: This is what she did last year for her Wimbledon preparation. So not wanting to change a winning game. She has a possible round two after a bye in round one against either Emma Navarro or Eva Lees. That's a tough opener either way for Svjantek. Lees has played her tough before and Navarro is a fantastic grass court player. Mirandreva is the second seed. She's got a bye and then a round two against either Anne Lee or Ekaterina Alexandrova. And then you've also got Zheng Chin Wen, Naomi Osaka, Linda Nozkova in theory, Karolina Mukova, Eva Jovic and Venus Williams in the draw, as well as Elisa Muttons and Alexandra Ayala who play one another in round one.

1:27:31Matt Roberts: That is a dacked field.

1:27:33Catherine Whitaker: for the week before a slam.

1:27:36Matt Roberts: It's crazy, isn't it? There's an ATP event in Mallorca, 250. Luciano Darderi is the top seed. He's got Yannick Hanfman in round two. Davidovic Fikina, the second seed. He plays the winner of Nick Kyrgios against Darren Walton in round two.

1:27:54Catherine Whitaker: Adam Walton. Oh, God. Darren Walton, someone else we know.

1:28:03David Law: Darren Walton, Australian journalist. I'll tell you what, I would love to see it.

1:28:09Matt Roberts: He's Australian.

1:28:11Catherine Whitaker: Darren Walton, he played in the media one-point slam.

1:28:14Matt Roberts: He's a good player. He can play. Kyrgios is rubbish now. I'd give him a chance.

1:28:19Catherine Whitaker: It was a real upset when Darren Walton lost.

1:28:22Matt Roberts: Right.

1:28:25David Law: Less of an upset when Adam Walton lost.

1:28:32Matt Roberts: Francis Tiafoe is due to play in Mallorca surely not that would be mad oh yeah I would

1:28:39David Law: I would advise against that

1:28:41Matt Roberts: yeah we'll see but as of right now he's due to play you've got Stefano Sitsipas Martin Lander-Luthe Korentan Moutet trying to earn some money this grass court season Grigor Dimitrov all in the draw he's got Mark Polmans in round one Dimitrov lost to Kiryan Jacquet in the Dublin Challenger last week. Good luck, Griggle. Good luck. Wimbledon qualifying begins tomorrow. And, yeah, it's the men's tomorrow. And then the women play Tuesday. And then they combine for the rounds two and three, Wednesday and Thursday, I think is how they do it. So Dan Evans is in action tomorrow. I expect he will get a whole bunch of support.

1:29:28Matt Roberts: I expect it to be a great atmosphere. And he takes on the Bolivian Juan Carlos Prado Angelo, who qualified in Paris and is a very talented player, but has no grass court experience. So are we calling that a good draw? I don't know, but good luck, Dan. I think it'd be a good story if he qualified, wouldn't it? That'd be for sure. Francisco Comissania is the top seed in the men's qualifying. You've also got David Goffin playing qualities. Darwin Blanche, the talented young American that we've been hearing about for years, even though he's still only about 16. Oliver Tarvit, David. It's Tarvit time in Roehampton.

1:30:13Matt Roberts: You'll be tuning in. And Henry Searle, the British player that Dan Evans is coaching and who won the Dublin Challenger that Grigor Dimitrov was playing last week. So, yeah, I mean, lots of other names as well, but those are just a few that I picked out. We will be doing a show from qualifying on Thursday or certainly about qualifying on Thursday. It is due to be 41 degrees on Thursday. So the location of that podcast recording is very much up in the air. There's only so much a Shark Ninja Chill Pill can do, folks. brilliant a gadget as it is thank you very much shark ninja every time you mention thursday it goes up another degree yeah well every time i check the forecast david it goes up another degree it's i'm terrifying yeah me too um so yeah that's our next uh regular show and then uh from from that show onwards uh we're daily and we are live daily from friday friday is draw day at Wimbledon we will have our first live show from Wimbledon from our incredible position on the broadcast roof overlooking the grounds our first live show there will be Friday evening exact time TBC probably early evening something like that we will make sure that you know exactly what time we're going live how about that then we'll have another live show on Saturday after media day and then we'll have our general preview hype show on Sunday before daily live shows not before 9.30pm from the grounds live at Wimbledon Monday through to a week Sunday the full fortnight of the tennis and if you can't wait till Thursday for our 40 degree qualifying show then Friends of the Tennis Podcast will be getting our next edition of Tennis Relived on Tuesday and it is, I mean we haven't recorded it yet but I know it's going to be an absolute belter David has found a genuine treasure trove for this show.

1:32:21Matt Roberts: I'm so excited about it. Matt's done all his brilliant research in the library. He's found all the headlines from the tabloids about the streaker. It is 1996 Wimbledon that we're talking about and the Richard Krychek story and the finally played against Malavie Washington, which had the streaker that apparently Malavie Washington still gets asked about all the time. That's what we're focusing on. And David has done some incredible interviews and honestly struck gold. So it's going to be a great show. We're recording it on Tuesday and it'll be up the same day for Friends of the Tennis podcast. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod, then the link is in our show notes, just above the link to get yourself a David T-shirt or a Matt T-shirt or a Catherine T-shirt coming soon.

1:33:11Matt Roberts: more on that to come stay across our socials folks we have a mascot for this show uh and this mascot has a special place in my heart because she is called bella um and my um my old lovely labrador was called bella and bella is nominated to be a mascot today by ruth dries back and bella is a 16 year old standard standard poodle from san francisco loved by her sister ruth who is a long-time listener and their parents joyce and susan bella loves other dogs and humans and gets a lot of attention from both while out on her walks often during which ruth is listening to the pod and has to pause to tell everyone about bella and how amazing how amazing she's doing for her age bella loves the beach and can often be found trotting down stinson beach with a tennis ball in her mouth.

1:34:04Matt Roberts: She's also a great tennis companion watcher, whether it's a random too long master's event or in the middle of the night watching the Australian Open. Thanks for always putting it into context for us and talking about both the silly and the hard stuff. Ruth, I cannot tell you how thrilled I am to hear about poodle dogs ageing very well and living a very happy life into old age. Nothing makes me happier than that. And she doesn't look a day over six, does Bella. What a beautiful girl. Standard poodles are always winning crufts. They're very just lovely dogs, I think. Just great all rounders poodles.

1:34:49Matt Roberts: I'm biased, but she's lovely, Ruth. Thank you very much for submitting Bella to be the mascot for today's show. hello to our mascots Bodie, Maisie and Roger just hello anything to say for yourselves any points scored this week folks who's got Pagula hang on Pagula was on the shelf in the fantasy at the start of the year

1:35:14Catherine Whitaker: yeah Reggie snapped up Pagula

1:35:16Matt Roberts: snapped her up

1:35:17Catherine Whitaker: I have Noskova though

1:35:19Matt Roberts: good bit of business that for Reggie

1:35:21David Law: I've got a healthy lead Maisie don't you worry

1:35:25Matt Roberts: Yeah, David doesn't need ATP 500 points.

1:35:29David Law: No, I'm saving myself for the big stuff. He's Hollywood.

1:35:31Matt Roberts: Taking a couple of weeks off. David's the Serena of our fantasy league, doing it the Hollywood way. Who have I got? I'm not sure Flavio Caballi's going to bring it home for us, Bodhi on the grass. Might need to play the long game there. It's always the long game with Flavio, isn't it? Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout-outs, Matt.

1:35:58Catherine Whitaker: We have Tracy Smith from Melbourne.

1:36:04Matt Roberts: Hello, Tracy.

1:36:05Catherine Whitaker: Tracy says, my partner Noel and I have had the absolute joy of meeting you at the Tennis Podcast live show in Melbourne and also this year at the Leslie Bowery statue.

1:36:17Matt Roberts: Oh, I'm meeting and greet. That was a lovely moment, wasn't it? Tracy and Noel. Oh, that's so nice. Thank you for coming to say hi, Tracy. Like Tracy Austin. Yeah.

1:36:31David Law: And Stan Smith.

1:36:33Matt Roberts: There we go. Perfect. Can't do better than that. Belters both. Tracy, thank you.

1:36:39Catherine Whitaker: We also have Sarah Yeiser from Washington, D.C.

1:36:45Matt Roberts: Hello, Sarah. Hi, Sarah.

1:36:47Catherine Whitaker: Sarah says, last year I mentioned during my shout out that I was selected to be a ball girl for the DC City Open. It was so fun and I had the opportunity to be on court with Venus. This year, I was asked to come back. However, the tournament is happening around the same time my wife is due to give birth. So Sarah says, so unfortunately this year I will be missing the birth of my son. Just kidding. I can't wait to watch the US Open swing while holding him. Love the pod. Cheers.

1:37:21Matt Roberts: oh oh Sarah you really got me there fantastic delivery from you Matt and and so good that you got asked to come back because you're so good at it Sarah you will have to name your child after the winner of this year's City Open

1:37:41David Law: those are the rules just a suggestion

1:37:46Catherine Whitaker: just for fun you know for our fun maybe um maybe our crowds will make his return in washington

1:37:57Matt Roberts: i suppose i mean he might be desperate to play might he was at a bad bunny concert this week it probably feels a bit soon yeah it looks like it now looks like wearable tech it's sort of shrunk down to the size of a sort of big bit of wearable tech, but it's definitely still a wrist support. Do you think he has to wear it in the shower?

1:38:25David Law: Yeah.

1:38:26Matt Roberts: It's really annoying when you have to wear things in the shower. Sometimes you have to put a plastic bag around it. Something to ask him when he does come back anyway. We're finally in an Alcaraz press conference again. Shower habit. Sarah, thank you. Obligatory mention of Sarah Borwell and Sarah Gomer.

1:38:47Catherine Whitaker: And finally, last but by no means least, we have the one and only Barbara Law.

1:38:55Matt Roberts: Oh! Hello, Mum! I feel bad that I swore so much on this pod now. She doesn't feel bad, Mum.

1:39:04David Law: She loves swearing.

1:39:06Matt Roberts: I do, but I don't love upsetting Barbara.

1:39:09Catherine Whitaker: Would you like to know what your mum wrote, David?

1:39:13David Law: Oh, yes, please. I didn't know she'd ever written anything before.

1:39:17Catherine Whitaker: Barbara says, I only got interested in tennis when David did, really, and was more into skating, especially Torvald and Dean. I went to see their last dance show. We went to Queen's every year when David worked there, and I loved it. I'm not keen on the heat, and I've watched a lot of the matches at Roland Garros on TV with the blinds clothes thinking about you all being up until three in the morning. I don't know how you keep it up. Well done, guys. I listen to all the podcasts. Hey!

1:39:51David Law: Thanks, Mum.

1:39:52Matt Roberts: That's so nice. Thanks, Barbara. My biggest fan. Barbara is taking Matt to the cleaners in the sweepstake. Oh, hang on, no, has there been a points adjustment? Matt demanded a recount earlier on.

1:40:07Catherine Whitaker: I did have to do that. Was that bad? Should I have just let it... I thought David would definitely want a recount if he was in my position.

1:40:15David Law: That was very Matt Roberts, I thought, asking for that, asking my 14-year-old to check his maths.

1:40:21Catherine Whitaker: Only after I checked it myself to make sure I was right. And then I just gently suggested it in the group. Let's not lie, David. If it was you, you would be wanting a recount.

1:40:36David Law: I mean I would have banned him from doing it in the future if he'd have messed that up on my account

1:40:42Matt Roberts: anyway Barbara got big points with the Netherlands I think yesterday yes absolutely I'm very pleased for her Barbara that was lovely thank you and thank you very much for I mean would we even be here without Barbara because our very first show was recorded in Barbara's dining room

1:41:03David Law: yeah I mean we wouldn't be here without Barbara because I wouldn't be

1:41:10Matt Roberts: Barbara like wasn't there a Barbara that you used to get confused with Pam

1:41:15David Law: Barbara Potter

1:41:17Matt Roberts: Pam was outraged

1:41:18David Law: Pam was annoyed about that

1:41:20Matt Roberts: right well I'm glad I've brought that up again what a wonderful note to end today's show on thank you all for joining us live if you did for getting involved in the chat if you did however you joined us thank you very much if you are with us on YouTube hit that like and subscribe button and do join us for all the fun of the fair from Wimbledon starting on Thursday and live from Friday daily on site at Wimbledon covering all the stories and there are some big ones. It's shaping up to be a fun Wimbledon, folks. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening and all watching and we'll speak to you soon.

1:42:05Catherine Whitaker: Take this as your sign to go. Just get out there and go. This summer at Best Western, get 1 ,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250 ,000 bonus points. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at bestwestern.com. No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, TNCs, and sweeps rules for details.

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