Should the BBC be showing the ‘Battle of the Sexes’?

0:00David Law: As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle. so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

0:34David Law: Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

0:42Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at ServiceNow.com. Hi, this is Tommy Hayes in Oakland, California, and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast.

1:30Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast introduced like a pro there by Tommy Hayes aptly from California because that is a real movie star name. Thank you, Tommy. Intros of the podcast are available to friends of the Tennis Podcast along with shout outs and personal greetings And from today, the fourth birthday of our Friends of the Pod subscription service, the chance to make your pet a mascot in 2026, guest edit a friend show or take us on in predictions or our bespoke fantasy league competition. Lots more on that later. We are two weeks into the off season, regretting everything we've ever said about the calendar being too long, gazing out of our windows an incessant grey drizzle counting down the days until tennis kicks off again in Australia in 2026.

2:30Matt Roberts: Tennis being tennis though is doing an incredible job of providing quite a lot of news and controversy for us to get our teeth into and that's exactly what we'll be doing over the next hour or so. David how are you doing? How is the particular the Solihull brand of grey drizzle?

2:51David Law: Oh, well, I think it really is as good as it gets. You know, it is particularly grey. It is particularly disappointing in terms of a weather outlook. And, you know, the thing with the off-season is I simultaneously think this is really good for me. And by the time tennis starts up properly in Australia again, and I'm going to be absolutely buzzing and ready for it. And yet at the same time, I am like, why is there no tennis on? So I realise I'm completely contradicting all of my important views on the subject.

3:33Matt Roberts: Well, not to be po-faced, but I agree. I think missing it is the point. Like, I don't think we have enough. We, speaking as kind of tennis fans, I think missing things is quite a powerful thing as much as, you know, I'm missing it because I wish there was tennis on right now. I wish I was in Australia watching tennis right now. I do think that is that's a good thing for me to be missing tennis. Matt, how are you doing? I mean, I know how you're doing. I saw you 12 hours ago, 10 hours ago, but still, are you still good? actually are you better that are you better than you were 10 hours ago in the aftermath of

4:14Catherine Whitaker: fulham devastation i wish fulham would go on a break just give me just give me a month off this misery uh no i'm okay i'm okay thank you yeah busy busy times i don't know i don't quite know how to explain it to people when they say oh you must be having a lovely relaxing december with not much on there's no tennis and I'm like no I'm actually extremely busy at the moment but it's

4:42Matt Roberts: it's good stuff yeah people assume you're kind of spiritually in the Maldives and yeah it's couldn't be further from the truth and not to be too navel gazing about things but obviously our last show was the big Andy Murray interview and it's been lovely to see actually the reaction to that has been by and large just as positive as our experience of doing the interview which was absolutely great like I was as worried about Andy Murray in retirement as Andy Murray was worried about Andy Murray in retirement um I was really worried for him and look who knows if it'll last forever you're a long time retired I did enough laps on the champions tour to know how tough retirement is for these guys, particularly in the long term.

5:35Matt Roberts: But right now, and it seems a pretty stable situation, Andy Murray is great. He seems absolutely great. And while that's not like a clickbaity headline, is it? Andy Murray seems... Andy Murray has nice life, is not clickbait. It was really nice to spend a couple of hours in his company, David.

6:00David Law: Yeah, exactly right. I, you know, talking about the headline, I remember doing the interview and it's the best part of nearly two hours long. And you come out and you think as a journalist, you think, well, what is the headline? What is the lead here? And that is the lead. The lead is for me. I mean, look, there were lots of interesting elements to the to the interview. But main takeaway was, oh, thank goodness, Andy Murray is going to be all right in retirement. And, you know, when our partners at The Athletic and their parent company, The New York Times, put this show on their audio app and they headlined it Life After Tennis.

6:37David Law: And that's really what it was. I mean, obviously, we had the fascination with him going and coaching Novak Djokovic and, you know, talking to him about important parts of his career and getting serious views about some things. But, yeah, I did worry for him in some regards. and he's exactly what I hoped he would be. And I also think he has a future in tennis with coaching still. I mean, I specifically asked him about that after the interview. You know, do you think you want to coach again after having the experience? And he says, yeah, I do, but not until my kids are older. So there's no time on it, but, you know, I totally get that.

7:23and yeah I'm just I'm just happy that he seems content you know content with his career very

7:31David Law: proud of his career quietly proud but mainly just happy and and and and in a good place to

7:39Matt Roberts: enjoy life and make the most of it and make fun of Matt's wiggle one two three four

7:52Catherine Whitaker: I'm never going to be able to play golf again without the voice of Andy Murray in my head

7:56David Law: If you do that thing again when I'm playing with you Matt I'm going to point it out

8:03Matt Roberts: As Maren Cilic will I'm sure tell you it's quite difficult I think to eradicate those sort of ticks I'm not sure it's going to be that simple Matt, what's your plan?

8:17Catherine Whitaker: I have a journey ahead of me my friend Andy not Andy Murray my school friend Andy

8:24Matt Roberts: that might be better than Patrick Kalkovalter

8:27Catherine Whitaker: yeah and he is one of the nicest people on the planet and he saw the video and pointed out to me that Jason Duffner won a major with a considerable waggle on his swing so he was fighting the good fight for the waggle wiggle whatever it is I do before I hit a goal shot

8:48Matt Roberts: you presume he didn't have his confidence destroyed by Andy Murray prior to that that major exactly it was um you got some you Matt in particular got some really good like nerdy big four stuff out of Andy Murray it was real meaty stuff for the for people like you the big four the big four diehards the people that kind of cut their teeth

9:17Catherine Whitaker: in the sport on on the big four yeah the people that are having a long argument in our instagram comments at the moment that was for you that section uh no it was it was cool because matt uh fateman actually messaged me afterwards and said that must have been pretty cool for for you you know if you were you were 12 year old matt you know and he saw into the future and saw that nearly 30 year old matt would get to speak to andy murray you must think that was a cool experience and i was like yeah that is a really good way of putting it and because obviously you know you two have covered andy murray's career from a much more sort of long-term professional standpoint for me you know you've been in the game during his career whereas i only sort of came into working in tennis very much in the latter years of Andy Murray for me much of watching Andy Murray was watching him purely as a as a fan of his and of the sport and yeah that that era was was so important to me growing up and I was just always fascinated by hearing them talk about the others in that in that group and their rivalries with them and I think a bit removed from the sport, I've heard Nadal break down those rivalries.

10:34Catherine Whitaker: And I just thought it'd be interesting to get Andy Murray to do it as well. He's got such a great tennis mind, as he showed off at numerous points in the interview. I think all of his comments about, you know, coaching, but also players and their instincts on court and how they mustn't lose that. I thought there was a lot of gold there that he gave. So I just knew that he would have interesting insights on what it was like to face Federer and face Djokovic and face Nadal. And, you know, we're all big four truthers, aren't we? And I just wanted to sort of find out whether he is. You know, I thought he would be.

11:12Catherine Whitaker: I thought he would be sort of humble about his place in that big four, but also make sure you're putting me in that big four because I absolutely am and I absolutely was for a period of time. And I think he expressed that really well. So, yeah, it was fun to dig into all of these parts of Mary's career.

11:34Matt Roberts: And just in terms of kind of another big area of the interview, we've had quite a lot of Emma Raducanu material drop in the UK, certainly in the last week or so. I think she did a Zoom call, David, with a group of British journalists. I think it was at the National Tennis Centre, maybe. Right, OK. And in-person... Sorry, I'm stuck in COVID times. She met some British tennis journalists face to face. Who would have thought it? And some headlines and some stories have been sort of dripping out as a result of that over the last week or so. And lots of interesting stuff in there. But one of them is her comments about the calendar, which is kind of echoes of what Felix Auger at Eliassime had to say a couple of weeks ago, ago the flip side of the coin to what Jack Draper was was telling us in our interview with him and what a lot of people have expressed she's saying we late we we make a great living I don't I I don't think we we have any place to be moaning about what we do she said I don't I don't necessarily think it's something to complain about because it's what we are given and we're making a great living as well it's not all glamorous there are definitely times when it's very difficult we're lagging mentally, physically, everything hurts.

12:52But at the same time, what are we going to do about it?

12:54Matt Roberts: I'm sure there are certain people who go to work and their bosses make them do something, but they have to do it. It's their job. If we put up a front that isn't complaining, I think that's a better example to the people watching, trying to get into tennis. The younger people, if they see all the top players moaning about the calendar, I don't think that's necessarily inspiring to look up to. now I've got my issues with with those comments um but I'm not I'm not raising them necessarily to kind of tear them apart I'm raising them as an illustration of what Andy Murray was telling us David which is you know what we already know but he he explained with the with the benefit of his experience from time on the players council which sounds incredibly frustrating

13:49Matt Roberts: how divided even the players are, how not unified they are. If there's ever going to be change, they have to use their might, their power as a body. And they're so divided, it feels impossible that they'll ever, in the near future, be able to harness that power. Yeah, it's very difficult to combine hundreds of voices and come out with a strategy and a plan and a way to put pressure on and make legitimate

14:31David Law: change. That's why Andy Murray would have been so frustrated on the player council, all these conversations you hear, and people saying the players want, well, different players want different things, and different human beings want different things. I think that's one of the successes of that small group of top ten players that have been led by Larry Scott, is they get together, there's only ten of them, they all decide on what the priorities are, and then they write a letter. Now, whether that will actually make any difference is another matter, But at least I can see the strategy there and the potential for making a change or at least having your voice heard because your voice is collectively one.

15:15David Law: And I mean, I think it's interesting after the interview, we were packing all of our stuff up and Andy came back in the room to talk to us because he was a little bit concerned that he'd been too hard on the players. And he wanted to sort of see whether maybe he should have made the point more that tournaments in all of these negotiations have a responsibility to not just keep asking for extra time from players. You know, we made the point that, well, you said you voted against the Masters Series extending in length. So to my mind, he represented both sides well. but the fact is that the ATP is that conflict and it always will be and so is the WCA and until you have a player union that is properly speaking on behalf of the players which is what the PTPA say they want to be but then they launch a lawsuit that is so meandering that it's difficult to keep track of well what is it that you actually want That then makes me understand what Emma Adekano is saying.

16:25David Law: It sounds like there's just so many complaints. And yet I think it's legitimate to make the point that tennis is not ideal. And if it's not, then people should be speaking out. It's very difficult to know how you get a good solution to all of that. But one thing's for sure. it doesn't feel like the current status quo is working particularly well.

16:51Matt Roberts: I think that's it, isn't it? Like, if the schedule functioned brilliantly for fans and fans are all sitting there going, this sport is perfect, the calendar's perfect, I understand my... It's all so coherently put together. I know what a 250 is, I know what a 500 is, I know what a 1 ,000 is, I know why they all matter, I know all the storylines and it all fits together like a perfect jigsaw puzzle. I think if that were the case and the players were complaining about it, that could be a tough scene. That could be a really, really tough scene. And I do think I applaud Emma Raducanu for being aware of her privilege.

17:30Matt Roberts: That's no bad thing to be conscious of that and conscious of the optics of millionaires complaining about their job, travelling the world, playing sport. but millionaires can have problems too and the millionaires are the ones with the loudest, theoretically if they could unite, the loudest and most powerful voice in this, the most biggest opportunity to affect change unlike fans who I think are being done a disservice. I think it's a sort of rare example of where agendas are aligned. It doesn't feel like this is working for anybody and maybe the tournaments feel like it's working for them for now, these 1 ,000s with the extra days and the extra ticket revenue associated with those days, but ask them in five years when they've had five years of Carlos Alcaraz, Irina Sabalenka and Yannick Sinner not showing up.

18:30Matt Roberts: And sponsors are saying, well, I don't want to pay what we were paying five years ago when we were being guaranteed Alcaraz and Sinner because we're not getting them. I also think Murray did a good job of pointing out that obviously yes it would be ideal for the players to come together and figure out what it is that they want but he also did do a good job

18:54Catherine Whitaker: of pointing out that a lot of the players agendas are not necessarily aligned and it does depend on where you are ranked in terms of what your priorities are you know increasingly I do realize how much it is the top players who are against the two-week Masters 1000s. There is a whole set of players for whom those have been excellent. They are getting them into events that they weren't into before. And it is a complicated picture, but I do agree that there definitely does need to be, if possible, more harmony between the players. it was also interesting it was sort of chance really how it happened having the Draper interview for us at the start of November and then Murray at the end of November it was interesting to get like a current player's perspective and then the perspective of a player who's immediately out of it and when we were listening to Draper I thought he was doing a fantastic job of describing just what it's like to be on the grind and how difficult it is when you're in that mindset of competition to pull yourself out of events you know like hearing that from a player i thought was really interesting but then you get andy murray with a bit of time reflecting on his career and he's telling us i would have pulled out of more events you know like it was just that interesting shift of perspective like it's easier to see the big picture i think when you're out of it and removed from it and it's almost easier for murray to think more clearly about the problems now he's not in it dealing with it fighting them and I think that's a struggle that the players have as well you know they're so they're so concerned with their own careers understandably that actually taking the time and making the right decisions is is tough when you're just on that grind and I think I think that that contrast between the current player and the former player was quite interesting on in in the two interviews if if you sort of just pick up on on that element of the scheduling and dealing with the tour I think they yeah I think their different perspectives were worth were

20:59Matt Roberts: worth hearing though yeah the the story he told well the sort of the the twin story he told of just taking no time at all after winning each of his two Olympic gold medals and immediately getting on planes to to Canada to well it was Cincinnati for Rio wasn't it and and Canada for after London and how mad that seems to him now and regrettable. But yeah, it's a great point when you're in it. It's difficult to make those clear-eyed kind of big picture decisions. Just on the subject of Draper, by the way, some worrying mood music around him and his arm injury. I was going to say chronic arm injury.

21:47Matt Roberts: It might be too early to say that, but that's the fear, isn't it? That this thing will never really truly go away. He's had, as he told us, eight full weeks without picking up a racket. And now he's pulled out of the UTS event that happened this past weekend because he's not ready yet. He's down to play an exhibition in Macau upcoming and then he's due to start his season, his formal season at the United Cup in Perth in a couple of weeks' time. Could be nothing, David. Could be quite a worry.

22:30David Law: Yeah, it concerned me hearing it because we heard just how motivated he was, how upbeat he felt about managing to get out there on the court again, you know, and start hitting serves. And we've seen some video clips of that. And he was very clear that he was going to play this event and this would be his first sort of little dipping the toe back in. And then, you know, the goal being to get out there and be properly out there in Australia and relaunching his season. And let's not forget just what an amazing first six months of the year he had in 25. And that's what he's looking for again. And then hopefully more beyond that.

23:14David Law: And the thing is, going straight into competition is really hard. I mean, you don't really want to be doing that sort of from zero to that. You know, you want something like these kind of semi-competitive exhibition type events where you can feel some of the nerves and the pressures. I mean, we heard Andy Murray talking about what kind of nervousness does to pain and those sort of things. And look, I just hope the best for him. I can't give you any more insight on that. And I think the problem is that he can't either, really. I mean, yes, he can tell you what doctors have said. But as you say, he's not even able to really do much.

24:00David Law: You know, he's got to rest this thing, it seems. And then when he starts, the pain comes back. I worry the same way about Artur Fies. You know, these are two of the most exciting young players in the world. If you were to ask me who are the players that might step up to Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz, they would be two of the three. And Fonseca, I would say, just because of his potential. But in terms of actual evidence, Fies and Draper are the ones with the raw materials in their games that make me excited to watch them against those two and for the next however many years. And yet here they are with injuries that have kept them out for many months and without any knowledge really, any confident knowledge, that they've got good news coming.

24:46David Law: And I just hope that it is coming.

24:49Matt Roberts: He's got new hair, Joel Fonseca, or rather less, sort of the same hair but just less of it. Have we all seen that? I have.

24:59Catherine Whitaker: I thought you were going to talk about Art of Feast because he's also got new hair. Yes, he does. Everyone's got new hair.

25:04Matt Roberts: Yeah. In fact, before the agenda got so packed, when I was concerned we wouldn't have enough to talk about this week, I was considering a hair update section because there is enough material to fill a section. Caspar Rood's cut his hair off. That's pretty old news now. but Fonseca and Fies and Alcaraz ditching the blonde. These are big bits of tennis hair news, Matt. They are.

25:34Catherine Whitaker: And they've gone, you know, Fies has got a lot more hair. Fonseca's got less hair. Yeah.

25:40Matt Roberts: Yeah. Those are your updates. Turns out we did do a tennis hair update section. I snuck it in.

25:46Catherine Whitaker: I believe Fonseca was standing by his word after winning Basel. I think he said it there that he would cut his hair. Have you seen it, David?

25:55Matt Roberts: Because I think it's a bit of you. You like it when male players go for the buzz cut. You think it looks hard.

26:04David Law: It makes me sound so basic. But it's true.

26:09Matt Roberts: No, no, it's like it's the military. It's a military haircut, isn't it?

26:14David Law: Yeah, I do. I mean, my son had one in the summer and I was trying to big him up for how cool it looked. And I think that was like the worst thing. Was there a mistake with the machine? Well, now he's just gone the other way, probably because I've said I like the buzz cut. But no, I think it's good. I think it's good to freshen up your outlook almost, especially new season, you know, new season, new hair. Like it.

26:43Matt Roberts: and people really pumped to see what how david shows up in australia well i mean on look as may say if new season new hair is your how come you've had the same hair for the last 20 years

26:55David Law: some people might say apart from the fact that it's slowly changed color and is now almost completely gray um but uh yeah who knows pretty gray when i met you david yeah all right that is true.

27:09Matt Roberts: Right. Well, that was tennis hair updates corner. Let us know if you'd like it to be a recurring segment. We're all going to take a deep breath now, or I'm going to take a deep breath, and then we'll be back in part two to talk about the Battle of the Sexes 2025 edition.

27:28David Law: Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time, and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss.

28:12David Law: So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at Vanguard.com forward slash audio. That's Vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.

28:54David Law: Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

29:13Matt Roberts: Hi all, this is Kim and Penn Holderness from Lifeline.

29:15David Law: Summer is here, which means it's officially travel season. And when you're out there making plans, you need somewhere reliable to stay. That's why Best Western is such a solid option.

29:25Matt Roberts: This summer, get 1 ,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250 ,000 bonus points.

29:30David Law: So wherever you're headed, make it count with this limited time offer.

29:32Matt Roberts: Life's a trip. Make the most of it at BestWestern.com.

29:36David Law: No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, T's and C's and sweeps rules for details and visit BestWestern.com for complete terms and conditions.

29:49Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where we turn our attention now to the battle of the sexes. No, it is not 1973. It is still 2025. This is the news. It's not news. It's been around for a while. But Irina Sabalenka and Nick Kyrgios will be playing in a battle of the sexes in Dubai on December 28th. The event is being staged by the agency Evolve, which also represents both Sabalenka and Kyrgios. This was something, as I've just hinted at there, there was actually announced or it certainly became public around the US Open time. I saw a video doing the rounds on social media of Nick Kyrgios and Alexander Bublik talking about this event.

30:45Matt Roberts: You can imagine how much I enjoyed that content. But honestly, at the time, it felt like irrelevant nonsense that's best off ignored. like many exhibitions, you know, a bunch of exhibitions have just happened this week in the States. And, you know, fine, if you want to go to them, good luck, buy a ticket. But in terms of our editorial agenda, not making any kind of waves at all, but Evolve are a serious outfit and they know what they're doing with PR and generating coverage and generating hype and interest. And this event has gathered a head of steam over the last few weeks. And that now makes it, unfortunately, unignorable.

31:36Matt Roberts: A few details about the event. There are some quirks or gimmicks, depending on how you look at things. The court is going to be modified. Evolve have produced some data. sources not specified but Evolve say they have some data that shows that female players move about nine percent slower on average than their male counterparts. So the Sablenka side of the court will therefore be made nine percent smaller. Hashtag science. Each player will only receive one serve per point. It'll be a best of three set match with a 10 point tie break as a third set.

32:29Matt Roberts: We've also had the news this last week that the BBC will be sharing the event on BBC One linear channel with Claire Balding presenting and Andrew Cotter commentating. The rest of the line up not yet announced but that news that the BBC will be showing this thing on their biggest channel really elevated certainly in the UK this event and this story in terms of you know impact and public consciousness. Look I don't think anybody is going to be particularly surprised about how I feel about this event it makes me feel so I mean like despairing and furious but also just tired I feel so tired thinking about all the ways in which the existence of this event and the attention it's being paid upsets me but it is gaining traction and I do think it's important that we get into it a bit and all the various ways in which this is offensive, quite frankly.

33:48Matt Roberts: The most prominent of them all being the Nick Kyrgios of it all. This event is being staged by Nick Kyrgios' management agency. Their agenda is to promote Nick Kyrgios. This is providing a platform for Nick Kyrgios. Nick Kyrgios is a man that stands for something he represents something and that's not an accident he's choosing to stand for and represent misogyny that is his brand just to whiz through the history the problematic history of Nick Kyrgios in February 2023 he pleaded guilty to assaulting a former girlfriend he has made multiple social media posts indicating that he has minimal respect for women's tennis.

34:41Matt Roberts: He responded, please no, to the idea of women playing best of five sets. A crying laughing emoji in response to Renee Stubbs tweeting that a women's final had been better than a men's. And in response to a tweet about Irina Sabalenka not having dropped a set in Grand Slams, at some point, and I think this was about a year ago, he replied, quote, depth. He's also publicly opposed equal prize money on numerous occasions unless the draws are merged, he has said. He made a misogynistic remark on court towards Stan Wawrinka about his then-girlfriend Donna Vekic. He also commented second serve in response to a social media post about Yannick Sinner's then-girlfriend, Anna Kalinskaya, who had previously dated Kyrgios in 2020.

35:41Matt Roberts: This is what Nick Kyrgios will be representing and fighting for in the self-titled Battle of the Sexes. A win for him in this event will be perceived and pitched as a win for what he represents, a validation of his belittling of women's tennis, of the way he He perceives women and women's sport as being lesser purely on the basis of brute power. And look, he's entitled to think that. He's entitled to think what he likes about women. The world will always have its idiots. But what he's not entitled to, what no one is entitled to, is a platform and a megaphone for his opinions. We can choose not to give him that.

36:29Matt Roberts: Of course it's his agent's job to try and promote him, to make him relevant and to make him money. But we can take a pass and say, no thanks, I've heard quite enough from Nick Kyrgios. And it's baffling and depressing to me that we're not doing that, that we are validating a man that stands for something incredibly dangerous in the world. You know, there is a problem in the world at the moment. There's a lot of data and studies out there about the gender gap in Gen Z and the way, the divergence in how they view the gender roles. This is a problem. His endorsements of Andrew Tate, which I know he has to some extent distanced himself from, but this is serious serious stuff and it turns my stomach quite frankly and I guess maybe you could say well Bobby Riggs stood for something equally grotesque in 1973 he was a proud self-confessed chauvinist pig wasn't he that was his brand

38:00Catherine Whitaker: yeah and one of the one of the many many elements of this of this event that i am finding just just horrible is the use of the term battle of sexes and sort of invoking that and you know like the battle of the sexes in 1973 was about so much more more than just a tennis match. It was highlighting much, much wider gender inequality, particularly in the United States at the time, but worldwide too. And, you know, Billie Jean King was using that event as a vehicle for trying to change attitudes and energise the women's liberation movement. And she didn't want to have to play this guy, Bobby Riggs, who was coming up with ridiculous comments, but she did and she saw the wider significance and impact that that could have.

39:01Catherine Whitaker: And it was a cultural, important, iconic moment. But that was in 1973. We are now in 2025 and yes, there still exists the attitude that some people have that women's tennis is beneath them or irrelevant or women's sport isn't as good because they can't beat the men. But we have moved on so much that we now know that that is bigotry and misogyny. And we shouldn't be giving those sorts of opinions any kind of time or space or energy or money, you know. And that is what I find so infuriating about this event. and which sort of brings me on to the Sabalenka of it all because that's another part here that I find really, really difficult.

39:59Catherine Whitaker: You know, like Sabalenka could be and is in many ways the most brilliant role model for women and tennis and, you know, she's powerful, she's strong, she's fun, she's competitive, she's dedicated she's a compelling athlete in all the ways um and i just feel like taking part in this event and aligning herself with nick kurios who as you've as you've laid out is not an ally she's undermining a lot of that brilliant work that she does for tennis and for women's tennis and the sport and this event is a total lose-lose for her she won't see it like that because i'm not sure she's in it for any of the reasons that billy shinking was was in an event like this she is in it for the money but if if she wins nick kyrgios and his his clan will say well you know nick kyrgios doesn't really play anymore he's he's sort of perpetually injured and And, you know, the court was modified.

41:10Catherine Whitaker: And if Sabalenka loses, all those people will say, look, the world number one female player lost to this guy, you know, even with the court diminished. And, you know, there's just no good outcome here. And I think it's pretty shameful, actually, that she's taking part in this as well. And I find that aspect of it a real shame, along with obviously everything you've described about Kyrios.

41:45Matt Roberts: yeah there's a there's a fantastic article about this um by barney ronnet in the guardian this week which is which is well worth a read and i found a very kind of it calmed my nervous system reading it to sort of see just such coherent sense being being written about this and and put out there into the world pre-weaponized was how he described this event it is it is an event and the manner of the publicity around it is, you know, just look at the poster Barney Rene does an incredible takedown of why just the poster is deeply offensive it is designed to stoke division on the internet and maybe that's just, you know, don't hate the player hate the game, and they're just playing the game but can't we all try and be a bit better than that game?

42:44Matt Roberts: You know, it's a dog whistle, this event. It feels like a dog whistle publicity stunt, a symptom of the populist Trumpian age of dog whistles and division and stupidity. But again, we don't have to pay attention to it. We don't have to cover it. We don't have to give it oxygen. And yet, here comes the news that the BBC will be covering this thing on BBC One, giving it the biggest oxygen that the BBC has to give. a reminder that the BBC had the rights to the Billie Jean King Cup finals, which Great Britain were competing in, and they just put those on their streaming platform, got nowhere near their linear channels.

43:38Matt Roberts: And OK, maybe linear channels are irrelevant in 2025, but they're not irrelevant to bosses at the BBC. Their decisions about things to put on linear channels, that's a big deal for them. And I think, you know, the defence here would be, well, they're just like it or not. This thing is a big deal. There is a lot of interest in it. OK, we're a public service broadcaster, but we're not totally immune to commercial pressures. But I think that's willfully naive and ignorant because the BBC knows very well that it plays a role in the creation of publicity and interest. It plays an enormous role in the creation and validation of that publicity and interest.

44:28Matt Roberts: This story has elevated to a totally different plane, in this country at least, since the news that the BBC would be covering it. The BBC is a precious institution. Like, it gives me... I don't mind a bit of Nick Kyrgios bashing, but something I take absolutely no pleasure in is BBC bashing. Like, I'm so proud if the BBC is a British person. I'm very conscious that the BBC is under constant alarming attack from far right bad faith actors who have increasing prominence. But it does make scrutiny, you know, the importance of the BBC makes scrutiny on it, of it, all the more important. And the public service remit of the BBC means it is held to a higher moral and editorial standards than any other broadcaster.

45:35Matt Roberts: The BBC should be better than this, should be so much better than this. I know they're not completely immune. They're not completely free of commercial pressures, but they're freer than any other broadcaster is going to be of commercial pressures.

45:57Matt Roberts: It's really, really grim that they're covering this. and yeah and look maybe they will cover it with with incredible scrutiny but the problem is you cover it with the proper editorial scrutiny it deserves and the logical conclusion is well why are we all here then why are we all talking about this pile of nonsense and putting production money into it which they are look it's possible they picked up the rights to this for free that quite often happens i suspect they got the billy jenking cup rights free or or close to it but they're putting money into producing this thing. This is, you know, they're investing in this.

46:38Matt Roberts: We did go to the BBC for a statement and we specifically asked them to explain the involvement of Nick Kyrgios given his past that we've laid out and given the fact that he also appeared to be dropped from the BBC Wimbledon team last year, having been involved in it the year before. And we also asked for an idea of what the editorial tone, direction would be to the BBC's coverage of this event. And this was their response. Nick Kyrgios is an active professional tennis player who continues to compete on the ATP Tour and invited to major tournaments worldwide. This exhibition match has been organised independently with both athletes including Irina Sabalenka choosing to take part and as ever we plan to cover with the usual editorial scrutiny.

47:38Matt Roberts: David what do you make of all that?

47:41David Law: Well I mean just to also add to the point about commercial pressures I think the bigger point is really the whether they're spending money on it or not they're putting it on BBC One which is which is giving it the biggest possible platform that it could have. So, you know, that to me is problematic. If you don't believe that this event should be getting attention, well, it's getting the absolute maximum attention it could possibly get in the United Kingdom. And it's getting it from the institution that I think so many of us believe in. and one that I have worked for for more than 20 years and I'm very proud to do so.

48:26David Law: I am somewhat reassured that they have Claire Balding and Andrew Cotter on their publicity because they are proper journalists and they are proper seasoned broadcasters who if they are going to give it the usual editorial scrutiny then they're the sort of people that will give it that as people that are experienced. I'm mindful that what could happen and what will be happening in some parts of the world is literally the world feed and that means the event's own paid for broadcast will be just put on the air and you will never get any scrutiny whatsoever you will just get cheerleading that's what happens that's why people produce world feeds partly to to give a service to to organizations that can't afford to put their own production behind it, but also to be able to give the message that you want to give.

49:20David Law: I saw a little bit of the Ultimate Tennis Showdown coverage in the last week, and it was all very glitzy and professional, but it was massively pro the event, because of course it was. It was paid for by the event rather than Sky Sports' own people, for instance, here in the UK. um we should say that we we know that there are that there's there's quite a lot of disquiet and disappointment within people who worked for the bbc about this event being shown on bbc one and we know of at least one person that has decided not to take part in the coverage as a result of just not believing in it. And I know that Andrew Cotter had real reservations about saying yes to commentating on it.

50:12David Law: I spoke to him yesterday. He still does have reservations about it. But, you know, it was made clear to him that he could say what he felt was appropriate in response to whatever he's watching. I mean, he is an absolutely brilliant commentator whose voice I trust. and even if he might not say things explicitly, he makes it clear how he feels about things because he's such a brilliant commentator. And yeah, if they're going to show it, I'd rather it be in his hands, both as a broadcaster and as somebody who has had those reservations ahead of time. But still, as somebody who has worked for the BBC for as long as I have, I'm not full-time, but I've worked a lot on BBC Radio, I wish they weren't showing this match and I'm disappointed that they are I mean I do I should say I mean just on the subject of Battle of the Sexes matches I feel like I have my own slightly complicated journey that I've gone on with it I'm not old enough to remember the original I was born that year but I do remember one of the remakes in inverted commas 20 years later between Martin and Avratilova and Jimmy Connors.

51:28David Law: And at the time, as a sort of new tennis fan in a way or as an absolute sudden diehard at the time in the early 90s, I was really excited about this match because Jimmy Connors had become my hero after the 1991 run at the US Open. And Martin and Everett Lover had still won Wimbledon. I was really fascinated. Oh, what's going to happen between these two? I think that was a slightly adapted court and maybe a difference between how many serves they got. And I didn't realize really that there was a problem. And I think that there are a lot of people out there who just don't realize that there's a problem until they listen to this kind of thing.

52:07David Law: You know, on the subject of Irina Sabalenka, I don't think she realizes that there's a damage being done here. I think she just thinks it's fun. And I'm afraid that it's so much more than that. I mean, and again, further on in my career, when I worked on the Champions Tour, I remember Bjorn Borg saying to me, sorry for the name drop, but I remember him saying to me, it's like 20 odd years ago, maybe more, him saying, I'd love to play Serena Williams. And as somebody who was in charge of the promotion of the Champions Tour, my ears pricked up because I thought, well, that's a good line. Dave's having an idea.

52:48Matt Roberts: Yeah.

52:49David Law: So I said to Bjorn, can I quote you on that? And he said, sure. So I asked him a couple of questions. I got some quotes. I put them in my daily notes that I gave out to all the journalists. Bjorn Borg challenges Serena Williams to Battle of the Sexes. And that became a headline in several national newspapers in the UK. And I was really proud of myself because I'd created this coverage. nothing ever happened didn't go anywhere thank goodness but I did not realize all the things that you've just talked about um I didn't realize the damage that was being done and and how I mean the same thing the same thing when when the Williams sisters played Carsten Brash I thought it was so funny and I was just I wrote about it and I talked about it and I did not realize this is belittling the women's tennis that's what it's doing and and this point about there just being no positive result for Irina Sabalenko in terms of how women's tennis comes out of it is just screaming at me and and I yeah I feel really sad that it's that it's happening and people not enough people realize that yeah I mean the whole picture of the event is can the women's

54:06Matt Roberts: world number one beat the men's world number 672 that's played six matches in the last three years with a modified court to help her like shoot me in the head right anything else anything else to add

54:31Catherine Whitaker: just make it all go away like follow

54:38Matt Roberts: we'll be back on December 28th to talk about the battle of the sexes

54:45we actually will

54:46Matt Roberts: we have a podcast that day we had a podcast planned that day we had a that was a podcast day anyway but unfortunately now I'll squeeze a bit of tennis hair updates in there just to bring the mood up a bit how's that? Or maybe we just don't even talk about it again.

55:05David Law: I mean, it's...

55:07Matt Roberts: Well, we'll see, won't we? Yeah. We'll see. That is it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about... Well, there's still quite a bit of news to cover. See you on the other side. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

55:51Matt Roberts: Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

55:58David Law: As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

56:33David Law: Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

56:44Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of the Tennis Podcast. Some more news. Let's start with Serena Williams and the rumoured comeback on the basis of a few letters found buried on the International Tennis Integrity Authority's website that the good soldiers of the internet are monitoring, scouring on the day. And we thank you for your service, good soldiers of the internet, because it was spotted that Serena Williams is back in the doping testing pool, which is a necessary step to playing professional tennis. You cannot play on any of the tours unless you are in this doping pool and eligible for testing.

57:45Matt Roberts: And that's why last year in the build up to the mixed doubles at the US Open, when there was the rumour going around, we'd heard the rumour that Serena Williams might enter and we did a little segment about it on the podcast just because it was fun. We got poo-pooed very soon after that by people saying, well, she can't because she hasn't entered the testing pool. and you need to do that many, many months in advance. It's not something you can do at the last minute if you fancy playing in the one-point slam, or in fact, I think you probably could play in the one-point slam, let's assume. No, the one-point slam posters don't have an official Grand Slam event on them, unlike the US Open mixed doubles.

58:28Matt Roberts: So she can play the one-point slam to her heart's content. In fact, there's an idea. Anyway, I digress.

58:36Catherine Whitaker: Although, to go back to part two, that's been ruined.

58:40Matt Roberts: The one-point slam has been ruined. Yeah, I'm actually not ready to talk about that. Yeah, it's pretty devastating. So, this news dropped last week. Unless you live in a cupboard, I'm sure you're aware of that. The internet whipped up into a frenzy. What possible reason could there be for Serena Williams entering the testing pool, other than that she intends to make a comeback. Of course, Serena Williams jumped in a few hours later and said, OMG, y 'all, I'm not coming back. This wildfire is crazy.

59:24Catherine Whitaker: It was quite an odd day. It was quite an odd day. it went from oh my goodness reading between the lines surely Serena Williams is coming back to to that tweet um I don't know to me that tweet was was kind of giving that line that Maria Sharapova said about the carpet you know like if I'm going to retire it won't be at a hotel with a fairly ugly carpet I feel like if Serena's going to make a comeback it's not going to be announced because of a Reddit user trawling through the ITIA list of people who are back in the registered testing pool and sort of announcing it. She's going to want to do it on her terms, I would have thought.

1:00:11Matt Roberts: Yeah, she's not going to tweet busted. Well done, Reddit user 41798. Although her husband did invent Reddit.

1:00:21Catherine Whitaker: True.

1:00:21David Law: See you in Brisbane. Yeah.

1:00:26Catherine Whitaker: look I think you don't re-enter the testing pool for no reason I don't think you necessarily enter because you're a hundred percent coming back it's giving herself the option and I think I still think it's very possible that she does make some kind of comeback most likely in doubles whether that be the US Open mixed which I think is the most likely or something to do with Venus potentially the fact that she's still playing and also you know I don't exactly I'm never sure really on Olympics criteria but you know we've got an LA Olympics coming up like I think these are all possible avenues for a Serena comeback I don't think any of them are like guaranteed certain But I think she's doing the steps to allow any of those sorts of things possible to happen and probably didn't expect it to cause any kind of, you know, in her words, wildfire.

1:01:26But obviously it's Serena and everything Serena related.

1:01:31Catherine Whitaker: In a way, it was kind of fun. It was like, oh, my goodness. It was a reminder of just how powerful the name Serena is in tennis and how excited everyone gets about that. but I think we might learn more about this in the months to come we might be coming back to this moment potentially

1:01:50Matt Roberts: it's got to be US Open mixed doubles I think I mean we're back here again speculating about Serena Williams playing US Open mixed doubles but that feels the most likely to me yeah

1:02:04David Law: I could imagine her playing with her sister though as well with Venus. I could imagine that at some point. And listen, I do think that if she got a taste for it, she might want to play more. I don't know. But that's a little bit of extra intrigue, doesn't it?

1:02:26Matt Roberts: I hope it's doubles and not singles. I mean, good luck. I would get into the story and good luck to her if it is singles, but I hope it's doubles. So does Billie Jean. So does Billie Jean. Right, another truly bizarre story of a very different flavour. Anastasia Potopova, as you might have seen, has switched nationality. She is now going to be representing Austria, having previously represented Russia, where she was born and raised. Here's the timeline, folks. On November 29th and 30th, she took part in a Gazprom, the state Russian energy company that is largely funding the Russian war in Ukraine.

1:03:34Matt Roberts: she participated alongside a lot of other top players in this exhibition in St. Petersburg on November 29th and 30th Alexander Bublik was there Daniel Medvedev Karen Hashanov Talon Greeks Paul who I believe is the girlfriend of Anastasia Potopova Anastasia Kudomitova Diana Schneider and then we had Yanko Tipsarevich and Mantel Barami as the team captains So November 29th and 30th. At that point, absolutely, I mean, you know, eyebrows raised about this exhibition happening. It's happened for the last few years. Most eyeballs were on Tanan Greeksport at this point for being the only non-Russian player to participate.

1:04:19Matt Roberts: and one assumes that that's linked to his romantic involvement with Russian player at this point, Anastasia Potopova. But still, really not a great look for Talon Greekspor or anybody involved. Four days later, the news that Anastasia Potopova has accepted Austrian citizenship and replaces Yulia Graber as the Austrian number one. And spare a thought for Yulia Grappa in all of this. Very tough moment for her. And to announce this news, a social media statement from Anastasia Potopova. I'm delighted to let you all know that my application for citizenship has been accepted by the Austrian government.

1:05:02Matt Roberts: Austria is a place I love, is incredibly welcoming and a place where I feel totally at home. I love being in Vienna and look forward to making my second home there. As part of this, I'm proud to announce that starting from 2026, I'll be representing my new homeland, Austria, in my professional tennis career from this point onwards. And once again, soldiers of the internet very quickly spotted, and this is truly bizarre, that that statement was word for word identical to Daria Kazikina's statement announcing her nationality switch from Russia to Australia earlier this year, obviously with Australia substituted for Austria.

1:05:49Matt Roberts: Now, this started getting pointed out on social media and Dari Kazekina spotted this and, quote, retweeted it with the skull emoji, which is, you know, youthful speak for, like, lol, crying, crying, laughing. And then she followed that up with, and no, we're not from the same agency. What is going on?

1:06:24Catherine Whitaker: yeah this is a wild story to be honest um i think i think my most generous read of it for potopova would be like you might you know if you were crafting that kind of statement you might look for one that's already been made as a bit of a template to give you a bit of an idea.

1:06:50Matt Roberts: But maybe AI would do that for you. If you asked AI to, it might scrape. Just getting myself in the mindset of AI here.

1:07:01Catherine Whitaker: Right. Yeah. It might think, oh, here's a statement that's already been made by a Russian player. This one went down well, didn't it?

1:07:08Matt Roberts: Yeah.

1:07:09Catherine Whitaker: And all you've got to do is change Australia to Austria. You don't even really need to make that many changes at all. It's a very easy switch for you. But actually, when I think about it more, it actually really bugs me, like really bugs me. like Kasikina's nationality switch was painstaking and like life altering for her and a massive process that she went through she was not four days earlier taking part in a Gazprom funded exhibition in Russia like actually I think it's pretty dastardly from Potopova this like to to use Kasachina's statement in that way yeah

1:08:05Matt Roberts: it's pretty gross isn't it?

1:08:07Catherine Whitaker: yes I think it is

1:08:10Matt Roberts: yeah gross and bizarre anything further to add David?

1:08:15David Law: not really I mean can we have tennis back?

1:08:24Matt Roberts: should we do hair again?

1:08:26David Law: Can I make some crazy predictions about next year's French Open, please, that I've not even thought about?

1:08:33Matt Roberts: Oh, yeah. It'd be interesting to see what kind of a reception she gets in Linz. Will she be embraced as one of their own? Who can say? Isn't David going to Linz?

1:08:50David Law: I'm going to Linz over the holidays, I'll let you know.

1:08:52Matt Roberts: Could you do some Vox popping on the street, David?

1:08:55David Law: I'll just ask around. Yeah. Thoughts on Potsdamova?

1:09:03Matt Roberts: OK. We do have one more bit of news. And sad news, I'm afraid. Nicola Pietrangeli has died at the age of 92. Real personality. He lived quite a life. Born in Tunisia. Started playing tennis during the Allied invasion of Tunisia. during World War II, while his father was taken as a political prisoner. The family eventually fled to Rome in 1946, and that became their home. And that, of course, is the city with which Pietrangeli is so closely associated. He was a four-time finalist, two-time champion at Roland Garros, and he played in a record 164 Davis Cup rubbers, winning a record 120. and then later as captain he guided Italy to winning their first ever Davis Cup in 1976 and that was quite a story that 1976 Davis Cup win and he is reading up a bit about him when he died last week he has been added to our shortlist of potential tennis relived episodes because it really was quite a life that he lived he was inducted into the international tennis hall of fame in 1986 and of course on his 73rd birthday the then main stadium at the foro italico was named after him and he leaves a

1:10:36David Law: a big impact and a big legacy david yeah he does and i i think people who have covered the sport followed the sport, watched it, have been aware of his name because of that Pietrangeli court at Rome, at the Foro Italico. And it's the best court in the world, in my opinion. I absolutely love it. And I love the fact that his name is on it because it makes people like me more curious about him, to find out about him. And I think that that's one of the great features of naming a court after somebody. I was aware of him more, I guess, because I've been around longer and seen him around and he was always a real a real character to be in the presence of um and um you know it's it's it's a sad loss for for the sport and obviously all his family and friends but i mean i i am i'm happy that there is a a court named after him that is so iconic that that that people will always think of him when that court is his reference because it is it's it's just the one everybody loves so much.

1:11:47Matt Roberts: And he got to enjoy nearly 20 years of the court being named after. And it doesn't often happen. I suppose it's becoming more and more common. I mean, Rafael Nadal played on the piece de Rafael Nadal, didn't he? But for him to get to experience that in his lifetime, a very special thing. That is it for news, unless anybody's switched nationalities in the last hour while we've been talking some personal tennis podcast news though today is the day of our friends of the podcast uh annual relaunch our premium categories become available again for 2026 and that means folks pet mascots today is the day that photos of animals start rolling into my inbox and i can't believe my life um you can snap up a pet mascot slot and they are limited so do get in there quickly.

1:12:42Matt Roberts: There are also slots to compete in our 2026 Fantasy League. Spots for that are even more limited. So again, get in there quickly if you fancy it. We have just crowned the iconic Reggie as champion of the 2025 inaugural Fantasy League. Beaten by Reggie. who it turns out was very good very good at predictions yeah it was an absolute slam dunk for Reggie turns out having Carlos Alcaraz and well no he didn't have Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz at the same time but he did a really clever switch up in a transfer window earlier in the season and it was really good work from Reggie I've learnt a lot from him this year and I'm coming for the crown in 2026.

1:13:38So do take us on.

1:13:43Matt Roberts: There are also Grandstand Predictions slots available. Not sure I'm coming for that crown. I'm always terrible at that. I find those really hard, but enjoyable to see what other people predict. Guest editorships are also available. You can be at the helm of one of our Q &A shows. They are some of our very favourite shows to record for Friends of the Pod. And our editors, our guest editors, do a just brilliant job. It's great. You come in and do the work for us. You're so good at it. So, yeah, you can pay us the money to do some of our work for us. What an exchange. All the details are in our show notes, of course, and the episode details as well.

1:14:29Matt Roberts: You can become a friend of the pod at any time. and that gives you access to a minimum of 25 bonus podcasts a year, including monthly live Q &A shows, eight editions of Tennis Relived, four Grand Slam review shows and new for 2025 and beyond due to its raging success, Tennis Podcast Meets.

1:14:53Catherine Whitaker: We've already got a list for Melbourne.

1:14:55Matt Roberts: We do. I do miss the days when it was called Laugering with Law, but I understand. I understand why it was problematic and we needed to rebrand.

1:15:06David Law: And I needed some help.

1:15:08Matt Roberts: Hey, Karolina Mukovo, do you want to be part of a feature called Loitering with Law? Who's Law? A 52-year-old man, you say? I'll pass. It was a necessary rebrand. She had a lovely chat. I miss the good old days. It was a great chat. you also get a listening experience with significantly fewer adverts you get access to the barge our incredible community platform that we're we're really proud of and kind of it cleanses our souls every day um it's a community chat platform and a tonic for tennis fans looking for a place to to talk about the sport debate the sport but without the toxicity of Twitter.

1:15:56Matt Roberts: And yeah, it's a really special place on there, stewarded by Hannah, who is just one of the best writers in the sport, quite frankly. I can't believe that we get so much of her time and her work and her energy. It's a real privilege for us and she writes a column for us every month and that is available exclusively to Friends of the Tennis Podcast. And of course, you get access to our archive of more than 100 friend shows from the past four years. So if that sounds good, the link is in our show notes. You can check out all the various categories that we have to offer. And I will just sit back and watch the pets roll in.

1:16:45Matt Roberts: It's a happy day. Oh, presenter mascots.

1:16:50David Law: Very much available.

1:16:52Matt Roberts: Please don't leave me on the shelf.

1:16:55David Law: You're always the first one snapped up. I'm always the one who's a bit nervous. But Maisie.

1:17:01Matt Roberts: Maisie came for you quickly this year, David. Maisie's had me twice. She only had eyes for you. Yeah.

1:17:07David Law: Yeah, thanks, Maisie. And by the way, also the return of Grand Slam mascots this year, which is very exciting.

1:17:16Matt Roberts: The return of Grand Slam mascots. Yeah, big news. Matt a word for Roger

1:17:23Catherine Whitaker: well I have more than a word actually I have an email from Carrie with some Roger photos that I've woken up to so I'm very excited about that we'll be sharing on the group

1:17:37Matt Roberts: quickly fantastic Priyanka if you'd like to send some Phoebe content that would be very welcome we've had a good year with our mascots thank you for sticking by us through Fonseca predictions,

1:17:55through Matt getting a hammering online

1:17:58Matt Roberts: for his Giovanni and Pesci Perry car takes. You've stuck by us through all of it and we're very grateful. We have an episode mascot for today. Oh, what a good girl. This is Mocha. Mocha is owned by Ryan Riley and family. Five-year-old chocolate Labrador and a four-year running mascot of Four Peter. She lives with our family in London near Epping Forest and loves nothing more than chasing after a ball, especially tennis balls and then laying down to watch some tennis at the end of a long day. It's a tough life being a dog. Although that does sound quite similar to my life. We win, mocha. What a good girl she is.

1:18:51Matt Roberts: You can't beat just a loyal Labrador, you know. Close your ears, Billie Jean. But there's a lot to be said for just a lovely Labrador and that is exactly what Mocha is. So thank you, Mocha, and thank you, Ryan. Hello to our executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Legends. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:19:16Catherine Whitaker: We have Lindsay from Atlanta.

1:19:22Matt Roberts: Billy Junior's taken shout outs quite literally, to the extent that I actually didn't hear who the shout out is for, Matt.

1:19:32Catherine Whitaker: Lindsay.

1:19:34Matt Roberts: Lindsay.

1:19:35Catherine Whitaker: Right, Lindsay. Like Davenport.

1:19:39Matt Roberts: Like Davenport. Yeah. Any other Lindsys? No, I mean, there are, but it's Davenport, isn't it? What do we know about Lindsay?

1:19:51Catherine Whitaker: Lindsay wants to also shout out her Sunday women's tennis team, who helped her raise over$2 ,000 for a non-profit that she works for, Concrete Jungle. Oh, that's fantastic.

1:20:08Matt Roberts: Consider them shouted out, Lindsay. Love that.

1:20:14Catherine Whitaker: we've also got Noemi from Philadelphia, Noemi Fernandez what a name

1:20:22Matt Roberts: hi Noemi

1:20:24Catherine Whitaker: who has been listening since the days of student Matt

1:20:30Matt Roberts: those days, quite a long time ago now, 2015

1:20:33David Law: student Matt, I remember the day I said Matt, how about we call you student Matt and you said I think you were so new Do you like, how do I say no to this?

1:20:44Catherine Whitaker: I was in the stage of agreeing to everything.

1:20:48David Law: Yeah. I wonder what you said if I come up with something relatively similar now. Not liking my chances.

1:20:55Matt Roberts: What would you come up with now?

1:20:57David Law: Oh, I'd think of something.

1:21:01David Law: But I won't because I'd be a flat no.

1:21:10Matt Roberts: Do you know anything else about Noemi?

1:21:14Catherine Whitaker: Wood also has a dedication for the shout-outs to the tennis section of the National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington, D.C. When it opens, visitors can relive the incredible history of tennis greats who change the game for everyone. In particular, they highlight the life and career of Althea Gibson. Oh, wonderful.

1:21:37Matt Roberts: Incredible. Love that. Thanks for the tip, Noemi. And finally,

1:21:44Catherine Whitaker: we have a birthday shout-out from Thomas Yang for his wife, Lan. Lan's birthday was the 6th of December and we met Thomas and Lan at Indian Wells a couple of years ago.

1:22:01Matt Roberts: is this the picture I'm looking at right now

1:22:04Catherine Whitaker: it is indeed

1:22:05Matt Roberts: the incredibly wholesome picture

1:22:09Catherine Whitaker: and if you scroll down a little bit further Catherine you'll find out that they have a border terrier called Bug

1:22:16Matt Roberts: I think they might have told me about Bug during the Indian Wells meet up that is generally what people do when I meet them they tell me about their dogs

1:22:25Catherine Whitaker: quite possibly showed you a picture

1:22:27Matt Roberts: yeah that's a good dog though isn't it I love the little foldy ears of Border Terriers.

1:22:34Catherine Whitaker: And Lan has completed the Fan Grand Slam.

1:22:39Matt Roberts: Wow.

1:22:40Catherine Whitaker: Good work.

1:22:42Matt Roberts: Has she done that without Thomas? Has Thomas also completed it?

1:22:46Catherine Whitaker: It sounds like they might have done it separately. Lan's highlight was watching Nadal at Roland Garros in 2017.

1:22:59Matt Roberts: That's a pretty classic thing to do. Your next goal would be to complete the fan Grand Slam as a couple. If you haven't already, let us know. It's good to have something to aim for.

1:23:17David Law: It's good, but...

1:23:22Matt Roberts: Happy birthday. Hope you had a great day. Hope the celebrations are continuing. Hope it's a birthday week. And good luck with the couple's fan grand slam. Thank you all for listening to today's show, for bearing with us on this meandering journey through lots of nonsense. It's been fun, though. It's been good to be back. And we'll be back again next Monday. Yes, next Monday's our review of the year.

1:23:56Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, we'll be back for Friends on Wednesday. We have our Barge Awards for Friends on Wednesday, which is like our first look back on the year, put together brilliantly by Vicky. And then next Monday on the main feed is our review of the year. With guest voice notes. With voice notes. We've already got a...

1:24:17Matt Roberts: We've already had... Well... A banger.

1:24:21David Law: It's a banger.

1:24:22Matt Roberts: It's a redefined banger, hasn't it?

1:24:25David Law: If you like Pam Shriver and Mary Carrillo, you're going to love this.

1:24:30Matt Roberts: yeah yeah that's coming your way uh next monday and tomorrow we're presenting at the wimbledon history conference which i'm very excited about but also we need to do a rehearsal urgently what on earth are we doing uh i know some of you are coming to that history conference tomorrow so it'll be lovely lovely to see you all if you are coming hannah is presenting as well. I'm really excited to see her presentation. So really cool day and we are honoured to be involved. Quite frankly we're going to be talking about the history of wheelchair tennis and in particular Brad Parks, the inventor, the creator of wheelchair tennis back in the 70s.

1:25:16Matt Roberts: David's done a brilliant interview with him. The theme of this year's history conference is trailblazers and Brad Parks is exactly that, an incredible man and it's been brilliant to learn more about him so we'll be talking about him at tomorrow's History Conference and he will be the subject of our final tennis relived show for 2025 which will be going up for Friends of the Tennis podcast in the next couple of weeks. Folks thank you for your company on today's magical mystery tour of tennis news. Have a good week and we will be back to speak to you on Monday with our review of 2025.

1:26:06David Law: As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

1:26:41David Law: Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. This is Hannah Berner from Giggly Squad. O-Pill is the first over-the-counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. Let's be real. Getting a birth control prescription is not always easy, and it's so much admin. In fact, about a third of women face barriers to access prescription birth control. Between scheduling appointments, missing work, class, or just trying to exist, it's a lot. But now O-Pill is putting birth control in our control. Opill is a daily birth control that's FDA approved, full prescription strength and estrogen free and 98 % effective when used as directed.

1:27:20David Law: Grab it online or at most major retailers, no prescription or doctor's appointment needed. So if you're thinking about birth control, check out Opill to see if it's right for you. Use code Giggly for 25 % off your first month of Opill at O-P-I-L-L dot com. That's code Giggly at O-P-I-L-L dot com. Birth control in your control. We love to see it. Thank you.