Sinner out for season. Could Djokovic benefit?

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2:00Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast introduced artfully today by Giselle and Julian there. They and their parents Marlies and Patrice are huge tennis fans, as I'm sure their baby sister Scarlett will be one day. They're in Brussels, which will be hosting an ATP 250 in a couple of weeks time, which is apparently going to change venue mid-tournament due to a previously scheduled Duran Duran concert, which is a new one on me. Look forward to Matt's stat from that week about whether a tournament has ever changed venue for Duran Duran concert before. We have a lot to get through today, including titles in Tokyo and Beijing for Carlos Alcaraz and 39-year-old Novak Djokovic, respectively, as well as everything that's been getting underway in the WCA 1000 event in Beijing as well.

2:59Matt Roberts: But we start with the news that dropped just a couple of hours ago from the current world number one, Yannick Sinner, who announced on Saturday that he is withdrawn from Shanghai. And then earlier today, the news that he is shutting down his whole season for 2026. He says, me together with my doctors have decided that I need a course of treatment for my knee, which means that the 2026 season is officially over. The last couple of years in Turin gave me so many beautiful feelings and emotions, which this year is going to be way different. But at the moment, I need to think about my long term career.

3:36Matt Roberts: So I will do everything possible to get back into 100 percent. And knock-on effects here are that Alexander Zverev will be world number one and will end the year as world number one as well to tremendous achievements. And it also means that in terms of Turin, which Sin has mentioned there, an extra spot opens up for qualification. And currently in ninth place is Novak Djokovic. More on him later. David, your thoughts on this news, please. Really sad. Really sad for him and really sad for the sport. To lose somebody for this long again, I mean, twice in a year, to lose Alcaraz and Sinner for multiple months and to think now that Sinner's going to be out for longer even than Alcaraz was.

4:30And just like with Alcaraz, it just felt as though it came out of the blue. You know, with Alcaraz, I remember us doing a show entitled something like, Will Alcres ever lose again? Because he'd won Australia. He'd sort of... That doesn't sound like us. I think he won Doha, and he's just flying. And then there it goes. The wrist's a problem. He's out for months, and he misses two major tournaments. Now, Sinner, when he was holding that Wimbledon trophy, if somebody had said to you, this is the last patch he's going to play all year, it would have sounded so absurd that he couldn't have looked in better nick really and he'd been in that apart from the the blip really in in paris he'd been so dominant and you know Zverev couldn't get near him in any of their matches until that Wimbledon final and fair play to him he played well in that Wimbledon final but yeah a knee injury that has cost him half a year is it's just so sad really and and look i just hope it's not worse than that i hope it's something that the rest of this year will sort out you know and i think it's sensible the moment he said he wasn't going to play shanghai i i said to you guys i he shouldn't play again this year you know that or that should be it now that that will probably be it um and here we are it's not it's not exactly an amazing prediction that he wouldn't play again but there's just no point trying to shortcut it at all.

6:04You've just got to get it right now when you've had this long out. And I can only hope for the best for him.

6:11Matt Roberts: He's been deliberately vague with his wording there, not telling us exactly what the situation, not telling us exactly what this course of treatment is. That's absolutely his right. It's his medical information. that we had the reports from the Italian media a week or so ago that we reported here on the pod that surgery was an option for whatever this situation is with his knee but that it wasn't currently the option they were choosing to take. This phrase, Matt, course of treatment does suggest that possibly surgery could be what's back on the table. I mean, we're working with limited information here, aren't we?

6:54Matt Roberts: But yeah, there's no reassurances here that he's going to be magically OK come 2027, which is a very queasy situation to be in.

7:10Catherine Whitaker: yeah you think how we started the 2026 season with with so much certainty about Alcaraz and Sinner they felt like you know some of two of the biggest certainties in sport really and now we're going into the 2027 season with certainly big uncertainty over over Sinner and we've had a period of big uncertainty over Alcaraz like everything has has changed for the worse really because of injury in this year. And I find that really gutting. I think, you know, we're unsure what is really going on with Sinner and the knee and what he's done, how he's done it, what the treatment is. I also think he's probably been quite unsure as well, you know, given the fact, you know, the sort of comms that we originally heard and then we thought he was going to go to Beijing.

8:01Catherine Whitaker: He thought he was going to go to Beijing. um now he's out for the season like it's clearly a very difficult injury to to properly to properly diagnose and to properly get the treatment for and know what's best so yeah it's really really sad I echo everything David has has said and I think also thinking about the specifics of a knee injury you know obviously again comparing it to Alcaraz like the wrist is such an important fundamental thing in tennis and we were very unsure about Alcaraz coming back but at least he could be doing his movement work and he could be running around on court and keeping up all of that side of things and he doesn't appear to have lost any of that whatsoever.

8:46Catherine Whitaker: You see the way Alcaraz is moving around the court and it isn't like he's been away at all. For Sinner coming back after a long time, that is something that he's going to have to build up and work on pretty slowly, I would have thought. And even now, with him just making the decision on the 6th of October to shut down his season, the Australian Open feels quite soon, honestly, given the fact that he's presumably not going to be able to do that physical work, he's not going to have matches. That is a tall order for Yannick Sinner to hit the ground running at the start of next season with so long without matches and without the physical work.

9:25Catherine Whitaker: So as much as it's a blow for now as well, I do think it also casts the start of his season into doubt. And hopefully he can start well. But I think there's definitely some uncertainty there. And then, of course, it's another four or five months before the next major. You've got that gap, which might be useful for him to build up some matches again and some time again. But it just feels a very long time going from the end of the Wimbledon final, which he won, to when we're probably going to be back seeing Yannick Sinner in peak physical condition at a major. And as David said, you just would not have thought that with the way he finished the Wimbledon final.

10:07Catherine Whitaker: So, yeah, it's just a lot to sort of get your head round and process, really. I really feel for him.

10:13Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's such a good point. I'm struggling to think of sort of cardio you can do without your knees. When I was on crutches for a hip injury a few years ago, So my mum would come and take me swimming every week and I'd have to swim with just my upper body, with my sort of lower body sinking into the water. Don't think that would necessarily help Yannick Sinner maintain a Grand Slam winning level of cardio fitness. so yeah that's a really good point about sort of how even if the knee is fully okay by 2027 the likelihood of him being able to hit the ground running the way Carlos Alcaraz has may be a slightly different proposition you know you can't do leg day at the moment presumably Yannick Sinner I just I increasingly have the feeling and maybe this is my anxious disposition here But I just increasingly have this feeling with watching men's tennis and Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz in particular that I'm clenched, like either waiting for them to get injured before my eyes or with the feeling that this is sort of going to cost them injury wise somewhere down the line.

11:29Like, has men's tennis evolved to a point where it's sort of cannibalising itself?

11:36Matt Roberts: You know, is this are we in like a late stage capitalism situation with with men's tennis? Think about the way that the incredible sight of seeing the way Yannick Sinner stretches into the corners and hits full pelt forehands and backhands from from the corners and then recovers his position so ridiculously. As you said, Matt, like watching tennis from 10 years ago from the players that we currently consider to be the greatest of all time already feels sometimes a little bit slow. Like I just worry that as incredible and enjoyable as it is what we're watching, maybe it isn't possible to do it sustainably.

12:19Matt Roberts: There is some evidence that it's not possible to do what they're doing sustainably. yeah i mean it's it's not it's not been a good year is it um but you know i i you're gonna try to keep my optimism up i don't fear that i don't i mean i know i understand why you're saying it but i don't i i think people have i've been injured before and and they've they've come back and i'm i think there's not enough evidence to to kind of put it down to that yet um but i mean look it's i certainly a year ago i wasn't expecting this situation either um and and there isn't i mean i do think having watched joker what joker has just done for the past week makes me think well my word this bloke's 39 and he's doing not too far off that type of tennis um but i i can't reach any conclusions uh uh on it but it's it's a massive bummer i mean there's no question that men's tennis has lost so many stars in the last year and a half really if you think of jack draper and artifice having six eight months out the game and now the very top two you know it's fonseca's shut his season down yeah it's people are shutting their seasons down it feels more often at the moment and um i wish that would stop

13:51Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I think in the same way that it would be wrong to attribute every single injury to the state of the sport, I think it would also be wrong to not look at the state of the sport with the sheer number of injuries that are there. And as you say, Catherine, the increase in speed and physicality at a time when the demands on players are not decreasing and are arguably only increasing in terms of the two week tournaments, the constant feeling of on the go. There's also a lot of stuff that I don't fully understand because I'm not playing to do with ball quality now that players are talking about a lot and they're feeling.

14:35Catherine Whitaker: So I think all of these are factors. And and yet it does just feel like, you know, as we talked about a few weeks ago with that with that statement from the ATP that David got, it just sort of feels like it's just plodding along and and these things are happening. and there hasn't been a sort of full stop statement being like, OK, we can't necessarily change everything with a click of the fingers, but we are recognising that there's potentially a problem here and we're doing something to really look into it and hopefully make the sport better for the future. I don't get the feeling that that's really happening and I think there's enough evidence with injuries piling up to suggest that that probably should be happening.

15:24Matt Roberts: Do you remember when we discussed the potential for Sin Cara's fatigue? It feels like a long time ago, doesn't it? That hasn't happened at all, has it? Never. Once. Once, Monte Carlo.

15:37Catherine Whitaker: In the windy of Monte Carlo.

15:39Matt Roberts: Yeah. It was one of their worst, actually, wasn't it? Because of the windy. Yeah. Just on Zverev becoming number one, David. I mean, look, he's won two Grand Slam titles this season. and we have seen him play better tennis than we've ever seen before. No doubt he's done the thing that he's been talking about doing and the commentators, people like us, have been sort of imploring him to do with his game for a long time. But he's going to have reached number one, not having beaten either of these two, not having beaten Novak Djokovic. I don't think anybody thinks this would have been likely to happen without the state of play with Al Karaz and Sinner of 2026, that you play the opponent that's in front of you.

16:28Matt Roberts: He's got no control over that, et cetera, et cetera. But historically speaking, can you think of any sort of comps for this Zverev becoming this sort of slightly unsatisfying Zverev becoming number one situation? I mean, I'm sure it won't be for him from a fan's perspective. perspective like the number one player kind of categorically not feeling like the best player in the world i guess yeah yeah i mean that there will have been ones i mean one that does spring to mind in a way is probably sellish's absence from the sport not that graf didn't feel like a legitimate number one she did but when anybody else won in that period i always found myself thinking yeah but that person always loses to selish you know and um so i mean i i do simultaneously gives ver a lot of credit because i think he's sort of faced down his demons really in the last year and become the player that he kind of should have been i think and and i think that that takes a heck of a lot of doing when you reach his age and he's managed it but at the same time I don't think he wins any of these titles if those two are fully fit and that's absolutely not his fault that that can't be proven either um but it's in my mind I okay I want to now see this new version of him who's the world number one face these two I want to see that as a spectacle anyway my view is that he won't be able to beat them at full fitness well we did see it once and and he didn't yeah um but but i just you know he got so close against sinner in that win with the final and that could have been something that he builds towards and actually conquers but i don't we haven't got any way of seeing that at the moment and that's what i want to see so credit to him absolutely but at the same time i don't love the word asterisk but i definitely don't view it in quite the same way as i would have done if they'd have been here and he'd been doing this There's no question of that.

18:43Matt Roberts: OK, well, as I said, there are also potential implications for Novak Djokovic here and we will talk about him in part two. Hello, folks. This is Catherine from The Tennis Podcast. Now, creatine, as you very well may know, is one of the most researched and effective supplements available. But you've also probably noticed that the category has exploded and most of the many brands out there have focused on flavours, formats and marketing. instead of actually making the creatine itself better. That's why Momentus created Signature Spec creatine, their most advanced creatine ever, setting a new standard for creatine quality.

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21:59Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast where we head to Beijing and the ATP 500 event that is just wrapped up there and been won by 39 year old Novak Djokovic in slightly disappointing fashion in the final retirement from Alex de Menor trailing by a set Djokovic had just won the tie break Alex de Menor got some off-court medical treatment, came back, actually managed to hold serve before retiring from that final, leaving everybody kind of reeling, took them. They weren't prepared and ready to set up the stage. So there was pre-FAF as well as FAF. So that's just great. But back to Djokovic, settle in for some pretty extraordinary stats here.

22:51Matt Roberts: It is 102nd ATP career title. That puts him just one behind Roger Federer now. He is the first man to win a tour level title after turning 39 years of age since Ken Rosewall, who was 43 in Hong Kong in 1977. The win means he remains undefeated in Beijing. His record there is now 34 and 0 and that makes it his seventh title. And it also means that he has won at least one ATP title now in 21 consecutive seasons. Matt?

23:34Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, pick your stat, which is the most crazy, really. Look, I do think that 21 consecutive seasons won is absolutely remarkable. Nadal did 19, I believe. But, you know, just think how different your life was 21 years ago. And that is how long ago Novak Djokovic was still winning ATP titles. It is absolutely mad. I find those longevity stats just remarkable. And, yeah, look, David really probably should be the one talking here and gloating here since he was the one who called this. I thought it was like I knew about his record in Beijing. I'm very aware that Novak Djokovic can play very good tennis.

24:24Catherine Whitaker: But the last couple of times I'd seen him play when we were podding the other day, he just looked so physically depleted. I'm obviously talking about the US Open match against Mariano Navone. And I'm even talking about his first round match in Beijing against Nuno Borges, where in that second set, he was hanging on physically. it felt like to me. And I just thought, clearly the tennis is still good. He's striking the ball well, but I just didn't see a route through in a relatively condensed tournament where I knew he was going to have to play some days back to back. I just thought, I don't know how he can do that.

25:04Catherine Whitaker: And yet somehow, some way, Novak Djokovic has done it and has done it by playing absolutely incredible tennis as well, particularly in the quarterfinal against Alexander Zverev the soon to be world number one and like his win over Yannick Sinner at the start of the year it's just one of those wins that's just going to age incredibly well you know you'll be like oh Djokovic in 2026 when he was 39 beat the guy that ended the year as the world number one like that's just crazy and yeah it was a it was a real thrill to to see him produce that level again I I I loved watching

25:48Matt Roberts: him this week and and that Zverev win David was the second match back-to-back with the Buyan Chalkete win which you talked about in the last pod two back-to-back matches where Djokovic got better as the match went on he was playing far better tennis at the end than he was at the beginning and he's told us about this mysterious health condition that he has that it's it's not an issue of longevity as of stamina as he this is how he puts it it's a general health issue but it's not a stamina issue and he he did kind of prove it with those two victories particularly the the zverev one to see him stronger at the end against the the world number one in waiting than he was at the start at 39 years of age kind of boggled my mind yeah he sort of broke Zverev down in the end which is is extraordinary isn't it because I do think whatever you say about Zverev he has to be one of the best over the distance in terms of just winning a war of attrition and grinding you down and not making errors and making you choke and making you fail and Djokovic just took him on took him on at his own game I mean Djokovic can't necessarily do to to as far as what Sinner can with the lacerating shots down the line and and and obviously the 22 three-year-old legs um he can't do what Alcraz does with it with with the audacious court coverage and touch in quite the same way.

27:25It's not like he could have done maybe 15 years ago. But he's got his own skill set. And when he's always looking, or at least I'm always looking as an observer for the moment that he just seems to start timing the ball. Because when he times the ball, it's like watching a computer game. Every ball comes off the strings the same. They're all perfectly struck. track none of them are out of the the the left of the racket or the right of the racket all out the center they're all making the same sound and and it it has what i call the trampoline effect it doesn't matter how hard you hit the ball at him it will come back faster because of his timing and he and he ends up going in this this automated vein of form where he hurts you by you being aggressive and and he found it he found it early as well against vera i thought because he actually got broken in the first game of the match and he's too loved down and basically that was the set um just because he couldn't get onto the serve and zvera's serve got better then you know there's a setup and then it got better i mean it's extraordinary to think he missed one serve in the entire second set yeah he hit 29 out of 30 points he hit a first serve in 29 out of 30 and and it's coming down from six foot seven at 200 plus kilometers an hour and Djokovic won that set I mean what what what is going on there you know and and by the end I mean I read Zavar's transcript and he he kind of did blame cold conditions for making it harder to hit winners he gave huge credit to Djokovic but he was sort of looking at the honestly I think Zverev played well really well and he got outplayed in the end by Novak Djokovic and I think that that tells you it's just another little indication of how great Djokovic is I had so such a good time just watching him play his last three matches I know the last two ended in unsatisfactory ways from a sort of performance level because he just didn't get to finish the matches but he was winning them he was winning those matches against Medvedev and Diminor both of whom were striking the ball incredibly well themselves but he was better and that's what we saw at the start of the year against Yannick Sinner and I mean my reason for thinking Djokovic would win this tournament was based on the fact almost aside from the record at this tournament it was it was based on the fact that he'd got to play Zverev in the quarters and that that would be the match that would get him going and that's that is what happened and look I don't think it's all automatic I mean I think he could very easily you know we've seen him play Sinner and Alcraz sometimes at Wimbledon and just just not have it but we've also seen him have it against those guys and if ever there's going to be something that's going to get him to that flow state that that feeling that I don't know what it would take to beat him when he's playing like that especially over the best of three sets i mean eventually our crowds wore him down in the australian open final but yeah played him for a set first you know um i just loved it i loved watching him perform at that level at this age and just remind you that he can occasionally still do it and i and i mean i did come out of it thinking right now ends your season you know now just but the way he's talking after the final today he said it's really nice to get back into form for the rest of the season.

31:02That's what he said.

31:04Matt Roberts: Yeah. I mean, it's amazing and fun, but like, it does seem pretty bonkers. I mean, he said before he won the title, I think it was after the Zverev win, he said, if I qualify for Turin, I do want to play this time because he's qualified the last couple of years maybe and not played. Of course, last year was when he beat Mazzetti in the Athens final. Mazzetti, who was only playing Athens because he was on the Nightmare Tour trying to qualify for Turin. Djokovic beats him, which theoretically should have counted Mazzetti out of Turin and said, don't worry, I'm not going to play. You're in. You needn't have played this extra leg of the Nightmare Tour.

31:50Matt Roberts: Do you remember that at the net? incredible drama I mean he could just he could do with thinking about Zvera's point about conditions Djokovic could do with sort of the anti-2026 next year couldn't he he could do with an unseasonably cold slam year whatever this mysterious illness is he has told us it is very much exacerbated by heat and humidity and all the slams now seemingly are played in extreme heat and humidity, Wimbledon and the French Open included, apparently, certainly this year.

32:34Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the best tennis we saw in play all year, even with this week included, I would say, was in Australia and was in those night sessions, you know, against Sinner and against Alcaraz in the final when it had cooled down. And he loves that court anyway, of course. But I, yes, trying to extrapolate from this into thinking about, you know, going forward, what does it tell us? It certainly reminds us and we maybe shouldn't need reminding, but I still sometimes feel like I do need reminding that he can still do this because all logic is telling you that he shouldn't be able to, but he can.

33:21Catherine Whitaker: He definitely can. He's shown it. Level-wise, he is still at the very top of the sport. But yes, I do think five-set tennis in big heat and humidity, when he's already had five-set matches to get to the semis where he's then playing these top players, that is different than three sets in a cooler Beijing, you know, when those top players other than Zverev are not there. So it's hard to extrapolate from this. But I tell you what, we've been talking all year about Grand Slams and what an opportunity 2026 has been for everyone else. And obviously Zverev has been the guy who has seized it. But how we started this show, we're going into the Grand Slams season again next year with uncertainty over Yannick Sinner.

34:12Catherine Whitaker: Like that opportunity in a way is rolling over. Now, obviously, Carlos Alcaraz is is hopefully going to be there and at full pelt. But, you know, then you get in the other side of the draw and other other half of the draw and you see what happens. And also, like, maybe maybe I'm even overrating that. Maybe Djokovic would also still rate his chances against Alcaraz if it is only Alcaraz that he has to go through, you know. So I've got to stop declaring Djokovic done until he actually is done, because he can still play like this. And it's amazing. And the one other thing I wanted to say was how amazing the tennis sounded in Beijing.

34:59Catherine Whitaker: like obviously we talked about the amazing support that Djokovic receives in China and he and he really you know I think has has earned that over the years with the way he's embraced the the fans there and talking to them in in Chinese afterwards you know that you said he gets what he gives a bit there but also just the acoustics in that stadium I just had an amazing time just listening to the ball striking between Djokovic and Zverev and Djokovic and Medvedev and Djokovic and Dumanor like the back and forth nature of the exchanges and it really made me realize one of the things that I do resent about the US Open I don't I never it never sounds like that the tennis at the US Open because it's so thin on the racket the strike of the ball because There's so much extraneous noise.

35:55Catherine Whitaker: And to me, that is such a reduced tennis viewing experience. I just wanted to shout out, it's a very niche thing, but I wanted to shout out the acoustics of the tournament in Beijing. It's a bit on the women's side as well, but you hear the ball striking and I love it.

36:12Matt Roberts: Well, you've done it, Matt. You've shouted out the acoustics in Beijing. Let's circle back to Novak Djokovic's semi-final victory via default over Daniel Medvedev. We were golfing yesterday. The three of us were out on the golf course with Billie Jean. We had the iPad out with Djokovic Medvedev on. It was about an hour and 25 minutes for the first set. we were coming up for two hours in the early stages of the second set we were settling in for it being minimum three hours and then suddenly the we we look at the the screen David you were off looking for a ball I think not correct yeah probably I think quite a lot that was most of what we were doing on the golf course David taught me how to to get out of a bunker shortly after to having played four shots in a bunker of my own, but you still entrusted your hopes in me.

37:13It was very successful tutoring.

37:15Matt Roberts: Paid off. This guy knows what he's doing, folks. I got the Roger Federer in a lift treatment. I can teach, I just can't do. No, we were having a lovely day on the golf course, and then suddenly the end-of-match graphics are on the screen, and it says 5-3 and it doesn't say R-E-T for retired. It doesn't say anything. We were like, what has happened? Have they got the graphics wrong? Was it a retirement? Have they just put five instead of six? We were all over the shop and the moment when we realised that it had been a default, David got on his phone and started filming us because we were, yeah, we were all over the shop, Matt.

38:06Matt Roberts: It was pretty wild stuff.

38:09Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, it was. And then we saw the replay and knew why it was default. I mean, there's just absolutely no question about it. The Novak Djokovic has hit a winner and it's hit the backboard and it's sort of going off to the side and Medvedev puts his racket out and hits the ball into the crowd and it hits a spectator in the front in the eye. And the spectator is lent over for quite some time in pain, presumably. And there's a conversation between Mohamed Liani in the chair. Of course, it's Mohamed Liani in the chair. and Medvedev and yeah a few minutes later Medvedev is is defaulted and it's it's the only possible outcome for the match after after that has happened yeah and and ironically with Novak

39:13Matt Roberts: Djokovic down at the other end because it bore quite a lot of similarities to Djokovic's default at the 2020 US Open against Pablo Carreño Busta, where he fairly innocuously hits the ball away at the backboard, but it hits the line judge in the eye. And she was clearly very hurt and distressed by it. And you just, we know tennis well enough and we see enough of these incidents now to know that once you have a sort of victim in that state of distress, the umpire is very very much swayed by that outcome in terms of determining their their punishment and it's it's a sort of instant default the Daniel Medvedev said I'm terribly sorry to the spectator first of all I'm trying to get in touch with him if he wants it hopefully I can apologize in person and see how he feels I just hope he's okay that's the most important thing I just really care about him right now he said it was 100 % an accident you can see that I didn't hit the ball in anger.

40:15Matt Roberts: Actually, I do a lot of bad things, but usually ball abuse is not my thing. The ball was bouncing back, so I just hit it anywhere so it doesn't go out from the court. When I saw the result, I felt horrible because I don't think I was ever close to such a situation. All ranking points and prize money for Daniel Medvedev are forfeited for the week. Those are the rules when you get defaulted from a match, which could have big implications for the race. That is 200 ranking points off Daniel Medvedev's total for the A's, obviously trying to qualify for the ATP finals. Djokovic in the moment seemed pretty keen to prevent the default.

40:54Matt Roberts: I mean, Djokovic was serving for the match at the time. He was only three points away. And look, it's yet another incident of this type. and we see a lot of them in tennis and all of them seem to be treated totally differently and the punishment given seems to be determined subjectively by the umpire and largely on the basis of outcome. Now the rulebook states thus, the ATP rulebook says, players are not allowed to violently, dangerously or with anger hit, kick or throw a tennis ball on the grounds at any tournament unless in pursuit of a point. Ball abuse is defined as recklessly or intentionally hitting the ball out of the court with disregard to the consequences.

41:48Matt Roberts: Now we had, again, very ironically, we had an incident earlier on in the same day in Shanghai qualifying where Terence Atman threw his racket into the crowd, but he wasn't defaulted because it just so happened that nobody was hurt. the racket just bounced off a wall. But unquestionably, he had disregard to the consequences. I mean, it looked a lot more reckless to me than what Dan Omedvedev did, which if you take him at his word, it does look like he was kind of trying to stop. It actually looked like he was trying to stop the ball going into one part of the crowd by then sort of redirecting it into another part of the crowd.

42:29Matt Roberts: And that's a dumb thing to do and you shouldn't be doing it. But in terms of intent, if we're getting lost in those weeds, it was one of the more innocuous incidents that we see in tennis. We had Belinda Bencic, Matt, at the US Open who did hit a spectator in the stands. But because the spectator was fine, Belinda Bencic wasn't defaulted. I mean, it's a nonsense, the interpretation of the rules at the moment, it feels to me, the level of inconsistency and so easily solved, I think, with a zero tolerance policy and enforcement of said policy for incidents of ball or racket abuse involving the crowd.

43:19Yeah, I think this incident was only a matter of time

43:25Catherine Whitaker: before someone got hurt from one of these incidents And we've seen so many where players have hit the ball into the crowd, either really out of anger and aggression and frustration, which I don't think this was, or just recklessly with disregard, which I think this was. And they haven't been punished for it purely because someone hasn't got hurt. But I think what needs to start happening is they need to start punishing the ones where people are not getting hurt. Terence Atman throwing his racket like that out. Belinda Bengtchik at the US Open out, you know, and that will sound like the heckler.

44:10Matt Roberts: Finish her.

44:11Catherine Whitaker: Finish her. Yeah. Novak Djokovic at the Australian Open this year. Yeah, this year.

44:17Matt Roberts: Yeah, absolutely.

44:18Catherine Whitaker: You know, if those ones are being punished and players are therefore knowing that there is a zero tolerance for hitting the ball into a crowd, no matter whether you hurt someone or not, I think we will start seeing it an awful lot less. 100%. and by the way um medvedev saying that he doesn't do this sort of things i mean i've seen enough incidents of him smashing balls into the backdrop or throwing his racket across the course into the backdrop i've seen loads of times um and yeah i mean he i don't believe he did it violently to use the wording of the rule book i don't think he did it with great anger but he definitely did it dangerously because it literally hurts somebody and and so you know yeah just just just come down

45:11Matt Roberts: and everybody and it will stop but but that but not to nitpick david but that logic because it hurts somebody that is the problem isn't it because it hadn't hurt somebody it it would still fall within the i i agree with you i just think if you're looking at those three words dangerously is the one that he fell foul of yeah um and and they do cover everything you you could you could cover everything pretty much with with those three words but just keep the bloody bracket and balls within the court of play for goodness sake and with disregard to the consequence means you know you you weren't in control or factoring in the potential consequences when you made the decision to or did the action.

45:57You're a former world number one, Daniel. You are capable of not doing that with a tennis racket and ball because you're really good at it. Yeah. Yeah.

46:06Catherine Whitaker: I hope this is a wake-up for the sport and a wake-up for Medvedev because I think David's exactly right. That answer about I've never come close to these situations before is a nonsense. Like we always praise Medvedev for how well he handles things after the moment. And maybe we give him too much credit just because we like him generally in press conferences. But I read that and I thought that is that is gaslighting.

46:34Matt Roberts: That's divorce from reality. Yeah, I'm pleased he's owning it. And I'm pleased he's not trying to say that he shouldn't have been defaulted. And I'm pleased that he wants to meet the person. I absolutely believe he feels terrible about it. All of those things, I think, you know, basically he's a decent enough guy and I do like him, but no. Come on, you do this stuff and you need to stop. Absolutely. Heading to Tokyo now. And the title there, the ATP 500 title won by Carlos Alcaraz. He's back, folks. He beat Yuri Lehechka 7-6, 6-4 in the final, defending his title. He also beat Jam and Munar in a very bizarre match that Matt and I watched in our road trip to, where was the golf course?

47:25Matt Roberts: Taplo?

47:28Catherine Whitaker: Dorney, wasn't it? Somewhere in the M4 corridor. It was near Lake Dorney where they had the Olympic events.

47:36Matt Roberts: Well, certainly Matt watched more of this than I did because I was behind the wheel. Matt was in charge of the iPad. But yeah, a very odd match, that semifinal against Muna. Incredible match against, well, incredible bits of the previous match against Matteo Arnaldi, including an extraordinary comeback from 6-2 down in the first set tie break. Matt, is Carlos Alcaraz now officially back?

48:05Catherine Whitaker: Yes, apart from the serve. and probably the ups and downs a little bit in matches. That is a feature, definitely. I mean, he lost 16 points in a row against Xiaomi Munar, 14 to lose the first set and then a couple at the start of the second. He was being outplayed by Matteo Arnaudi in the first set before that extraordinary recovery in the tie break where he just turned it on and produced a string of points that was just absolutely electrifying. He was having a serve broken against Denis Shapovalov as well before Shapovalov had to retire in their match. He's more vulnerable within the matches than we saw through a lot of last season and the start of this season when he was in the absolute form of his life.

48:57Catherine Whitaker: But he's back in terms of, you know, he's won another title. or he is lighting up tennis again. And even today in the final against Le Hetschke, he was down in that first set tie break. And against, I think, probably everyone else on tour, Le Hetschke goes 4-1 up with a double break in that tie break. But Alcaraz somehow has the hands to hit just the most outrageous half-volley winner off a really good passing shot from Le Hetschke and makes it only 3-2 rather than 4-1. keeps himself in the tie-break and then allows himself to turn it on with the forehand and then find the drop shot and suddenly he's escaped from another tie-break and he's well on his way to winning another title.

49:44So I think there are still little bits of vulnerability in his game,

49:49Catherine Whitaker: particularly the serve. He is getting broken a lot, particularly start of matches. He was under pressure a lot, but the way he finished against Munar, the way he finished against Lehekshka, seeing him back holding a trophy, smile on his face, knowing that there's still more to come. I think in that sense, he's very much back.

50:09Matt Roberts: Did you see any improvements over the course of the week on the serve? Is it trending in the right direction? A bit.

50:23Matt Roberts: You worried about the Alcrest serve, David? Yeah, I think if Matt's worried, I'm worried. I'm not very good I've never been very good at diagnosing people's service levels but because I spend so much time thinking about the rest of their games in a way It's a lot like Saishing

50:42Catherine Whitaker: the rest of the game isn't it? Yeah it is really I suppose I take a big notice of Zveros because of the sheer percentage of it but when I think of Alcaraz now like when you make me think about it I realise it doesn't feel like it's got anywhere near as much on it as it had got behind it before this injury. That's sort of what I'm seeing. But, yeah, I really do need to look more closely.

51:09Matt Roberts: Forget I asked, David. If you force me to think about it, you are willingly co-hosting a tennis podcast for a living, David. But, you know, when you spent the 90s watching Pete Sampras' serve, all of these other jokers, I mean...

51:30Catherine Whitaker: it does highlight again what an amazing returner he is because as much as as much as he was struggling on serve and he was you know he's half-volleying returns from the middling it from

51:45Matt Roberts: the center of the racket isn't it it was just nuts what he's doing on return it's important for him

51:50Catherine Whitaker: it's very important that the serve works especially if he's going to be up against the very best players in the world but I just think there's other players who would have been in more trouble it would have been maybe more noticeable they were struggling on serve if they don't also have his return because he's he's breaking so much and getting himself applying pressure that way other players I mean the the sort of adage with tennis is you're it was you're only as good as

52:15Matt Roberts: your second serve isn't it but it's like your game's built around the serve and and it can cause the rest of your game to crumble if your serve isn't there that I just don't think that's the case at all with Alcaraz. I think he can sort of compartmentalise the serve quite well and it doesn't sort of infect the rest of his game at all. Quite the opposite, really. I think, you know, he likes the challenge of like, oh, break down? I'll just have to break then. No probs. David, Carlos Alcaraz held up his end of the Fies Alcaraz final bargain why did Art of Feas not hold up his end of the bargain well it was a good week I think overall for Feas you know winning the two qualifying matches getting through to the quarterfinals but should have won should have beaten Valentin Vachero three times he's up a break of serving in the three sets and you know he only wins one of them that's that's that's not good enough really and and i don't want to take things away from vashiro because he he wrestled that match back into his control um and and and huge credit deserve for that and and what i'm about to say about vashiro will sound extremely harsh probably and a little bit mean-spirited and i I don't mean it to be because I say this with positivity in his direction, but he is Mr.

53:51Agricultural. He is a lumberjack of a tennis player. He is chopping trees down with his ground strokes, and they're incredibly powerful, but they are blunt instrument shots. You need to be able to deal with those, and Feast allowed himself to get into Vashiro's type of match. And the thing that frustrates me as an observer of Feast, who is looking for him to take his game on another level, I didn't see him pull the trigger down the line with his backhand, which I've been talking about in the last podcast, is something that I think he needs to do against a guy with a good backhand like Vashiro.

54:34I barely saw him do that once in a kind of normal trade from the baseline so Vachero was just able to trust that this ball is coming to his backhand and lean that way and I think that that's against the good backhands that's got to change for Fese even though his own backhand's good I think that's got to change and I think he got a bit too comfortable in the match he thought he was going to win quite easily because he was winning quite easily and Vachero just when he's serving for the set just kind of stepped on it and you could see Feast just taken by surprise really um but look these are still developmental stages in his career and and and I think he needs to be a bit pissed off about this and go and put it right in Shanghai big tournament coming up for Vashiro

55:24Matt Roberts: in Shanghai isn't it 1000 points potentially coming off the board in uh in 12 days time done well though hasn't he don't you think in the last year i i'm i'm really i really feel like he's won that and then taken his career and run with it so and with most of the summer out injured as well um yeah i agree but it but you know this is a this is the biggest the biggest couple of weeks of his season really coming up

55:59Catherine Whitaker: and I did see that Rindikanesh is out of Shanghai so he's going to lose all of those points which is tough on him as well

56:08Matt Roberts: yeah his rankings going because he's had a rough year Rindikanesh compared to last year and that's going to be a heck of a blow okay that is it for your men's roundup we'll be back in part three to talk about the women and to look ahead to the start of Shanghai as well. This is Troy Millings from Earn Your Leisure. On Earn Your Leisure, we're all about smart money moves. And here's one most people skip. And it starts with Insurify. Most of us never shop our car insurance. The policy renews every year, the rate creeps up a little at a time, and nobody calls you to tell you. You stay with the same company because it's easy, and that convenience costs you real money.

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57:40Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Staying, well, no, returning to Beijing now, but moving on to the women's tournament that's happening there, which is, of course, a 1000 event. The final of this is on Sunday and the top half of the draw is at the round of 16 stage. The bottom half of the draw is at the quarterfinal stage. So the round of 16 in the top half is Alina Chareva, more on her in a moment, against Jung Chin Wen. Anne Lee against Alina Svitolina, Coco Goff against Elisa Mertens and Iva Jovic against Iva Svjantek. and the bottom half quarter finalists are Ekaterina Alexandrova to take on Mira Andreeva and Karina Mukova to take on Nikola Bartonkova.

58:33Matt Roberts: Now let's return, as I said, to Alina Chereva there who will take on Jung Chin-Wen in the round of 16 tomorrow because she is the player that took out Alina Rabakina playing in her first match as the world number one. She's the world number 118 Chereva. Rabakina, incidentally, has subsequently withdrawn from Wuhan next week with a foot injury. Tell us about Chereva, Matt. How and why she beat Rabakina? Is she a thing?

59:13Catherine Whitaker: What an opening question. Look, I do think the foot injury was a very, very big part of that match. I saw the closing stages and Rabatkinner was barely moving, honestly, like really struggling. She hadn't played since the US Open when she was also, of course, struggling with an injury through that US Open. And I think maybe we will never really know the extent of the injury that Rabatkin was carrying through that US Open and what she was putting herself through to be able to play and win. But, you know, she pulled out of the Beijing King Cup subsequently. She did not look right in Beijing at all.

59:58Catherine Whitaker: And now, as you say, she's pulled out of Wuhan. So I think that was a very big factor in the match. I think what has perhaps impressed me the most about Charieva is that she's backed it up by then by then beating Sonny Cartel in her next match and has and has shown a level there and a consistency that is really impressive. and she certainly played well against Rabatkinner in what I did see, hung in rallies incredibly well. I think noticed that Rabatkinner was in that state of coughing up a lot of unforced errors and allowing that to happen and staying incredibly strong in a career-defining moment, you know, like trying to serve that out and she did it very well indeed.

1:00:43Catherine Whitaker: She is just the second player, this is from Opta, the second player to defeat the world number one in the opponent's first match as the world number one. So it's only the second time that that has happened. It was Naomi Osaka losing to Kristina Mladenovic in her first match as the world number one. That was the only other time that that had happened.

1:01:04Matt Roberts: In the WTA?

1:01:06Catherine Whitaker: On the WTA side, yeah.

1:01:07Matt Roberts: Because that happened to Yvjenika Felnikov, David, in the ATP? Yeah, about five times. He's the poster boy for that. at least I think so that went through my mind I was just about to say a female player yeah and I would have I would have thought it had happened to more male players you know but so I'm not sure but that is interesting and I mean yeah but she didn't look right did she

1:01:38Catherine Whitaker: no not at all but yeah look she definitely played a lot better than the world number 118, Sharia Ava, and she's recently become Armenian. She's of Russian descent. So going to be interesting to see whether she can build on this or whether she will just sort of be the answer to a quiz question. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

1:02:03Matt Roberts: Well, very interesting to see her take on Jung Chin-wen, who's played some dramatic matches so far this tournament. I mean, her matches have been unmissable. A marathon match against Marie Buzkova, you'll be shocked to hear. I can't think of Buzkova now without that line because it must have passed me by a little bit that she was always involved in these matches until you pointed it out. Now every time she plays, she's having them. I can't not see them. Yeah, another one against Jung Chin Wen this week. She's obviously backed by the crowd. She's having ups and downs still. They are roller coasters, her matches.

1:02:51Matt Roberts: But they're kind of unmissable at the moment. We were previewing Irina Sabalenka against Nikola Bartonkova in our last pod, talking about the fact that Bartonkova really should have beaten Sabalenka in Berlin earlier this year. She had the beating of her and then got very tight and let it slip away. Not this time. 6-4, 6-3 for Barton Kovar over Sabalenka. She looked pretty over 20-26 to me, David, when Sabalenka was trudging to the net for that handshake. Yeah, that was quite a comical handshake, wasn't it? I don't think it was personal to Barton Kovar. I think it was just Sabalenka being completely over it.

1:03:37Yeah, it was. And listen, she may fare better now that this tournament's out the way and she can go and play sort of the ones that maybe she feels a little happier in. But she just generally has looked like this a lot this year, hasn't she? Just struggling to find her form, struggling to find her kind of verve and conviction and just does look like she needs the year to end in a way. And maybe she can find it at the back end, you know, and have, especially given the WTF finals is going to Indian Wells, you know, which she won that tournament earlier this year. Maybe she'll get the sort of buzz of the new start in that way.

1:04:24But this was an anemic performance. And Barton Kover was part of that. She's a very difficult player to play, I think. She can put the balls in all sorts of difficult positions, but it just didn't look like Sabalanga, right down to the fact that Matt sent me a still of her in a game that I must have missed in this match when she was wearing a baseball cap. And I've never seen her in one of those before.

1:04:49Matt Roberts: It was so discombobulating seeing her in a baseball cap. It didn't last long, though, did it?

1:04:53Catherine Whitaker: No, one game. She thought so, too. She put it on because, I mean, look, Beijing in the first matches of the day is a disaster. I mean, I think for the players as well with the shadow, but particularly on TV, I mean, you just, it's awful. You just cannot see the ball when it goes into the sun. And yeah, Samalenka was hating the experience, I think. Tried the cap for one game. She didn't really put it on properly. It was just sort of sitting at the top of her head. It was like Alvaro at the US Open.

1:05:26Matt Roberts: Alvaro was perching the cap on his head

1:05:29Catherine Whitaker: Yeah and that got discarded and then the match went with it soon after It's tough because

1:05:37Matt Roberts: As I often whinge to you both well maybe more Matt than David but at Grand Slams that for women that if you're going to wear a hat you've got to commit to it because as soon as you put the hat on certainly in hot conditions you've got hat hair and that's game over for for your hair for the day. I hadn't heard that. I always think it's all or nothing with a hat. I mean, honestly, I'm the same. It's a big commitment for the day.

1:06:07Catherine Whitaker: That's why I wear a hat in the Live at Wimbledon shows after I've been wearing a hat during the day. Right.

1:06:13Matt Roberts: And I support that, Matt. I understand the struggle. She backed it up, Barton Cover, hasn't she? She's looking really strong in this tournament. She's a nifty, nifty tennis player. That's the word that springs to my mind when watching Barton Cova. They're not, just thinking about how we opened the show, not great adverts for winning the Sunshine Double, Sabalenka and Sinner, this year, are they? It feels a long time ago, doesn't it? You know, and they both just felt completely unbeatable. well i mean it just it comes back to what a what a long year an arduous year it is i mean i love tennis but it's just never ending isn't it i mean you know if you if you showed this to other sports and said yeah so what we do is we start in january and then in november we're still going david we actually start i mean 27 in 2026 would just think you'd lost your mind wouldn't they because you can't keep that up.

1:07:21And there's two more examples.

1:07:24Catherine Whitaker: I do think one other interesting storyline for Sabalenka with the season still going is world number one. You know, like she does have a chance to finish the year as number one. She's about 1 ,000 points behind Rabatkinner in the race, I think. But Rabatkinner is, as we said, out of Wuhan, struggling with injury. I don't know whether that's going to be enough for Sabalenka to really click her into gear, as we talked about, given that she seems pretty over 2026 with the way that the Grand Slam season has gone in particular. But maybe it's something. Maybe she can find some motivation there and use that to finish a bit more strongly than she showed in Beijing.

1:08:12Matt Roberts: Iga Svantec speaking of roller coasters she trailed Donna Vekic 6-4 5-2 Vekic served for the match twice both times broken to love then Svantec won the second set tie break 7-0 and then went on to win the decider 6-2 I mean I mean, how tennis players get over defeats like this, I don't know. We're going to come on to talk about Mukova-Osaka in a moment, a match that we were all watching earlier on today, and Mukova needed nine match points to get over the line. And I was, you know, by the end thinking, oh my God, Mukova is going to lose this. And I don't know how she ever gets over not winning this tennis match by this point.

1:09:02Matt Roberts: The cruelest game, David. yeah it's um it i it never fails to to astonish me that how how little experience helps you donna vekic has been playing this sport for 13 years and here she is she's got herself into this dominant position she's i mean look obviously miga svantec is also part of this comeback but to not be able to get yourself over the line it must just kill you you know inside just just you you've got to start again somewhere um but yeah she's in this strange period of her career where she had this great rush of results and deep in grand slams and olympic silver medalist and and and then she's had a real tail off.

1:09:54And then this is the sort of match that could just start you off all over again, couldn't it? And, yeah, it's a tough one. It's experience versus baggage, isn't it?

1:10:07Matt Roberts: The line between experience and baggage, well, they're kind of the same thing.

1:10:14Catherine Whitaker: And Vekic has had a lot of losses recently from winning positions where she's not been able to get over the line. I will say I saw the score, saw what had happened and went into the replay with an awful lot of trepidation, thinking I was just going to be watching, you know, just an absolute horror show from Vekic. She certainly should have won the match from that position. I'm not saying that she shouldn't, but it wasn't quite as bad as I was expecting. Fiontek really did up it. She found her return. She started going down the line. She found life in the match where she'd been quite listless, Fiontek, through to that stage.

1:11:02Catherine Whitaker: And even at the start of the third set, after losing the breaks and losing the tie break, Vekic came through an epic game to hold for 2-1. And she was still kind of there in the match, even at the start of the third. But Svantec had found her game by that point and managed to outplay her. So, look, definitely Vekic should be winning and should be closing from that position, even against someone as good as Svantec. But, yeah, it wasn't like an awful choke and the opponent didn't have to do anything. Svantec did definitely raise her game as well.

1:11:40Matt Roberts: Koko Goff through to the last 16 she she made a fun match yesterday against the 16 year old Chinese wildcard Jinran Sun involved a VAR incident Goff asked for a point to be replayed because of a flickering electronic school board we also know that she was subjected Goff to some racial abuse online

1:12:08Catherine Whitaker: um tell us about this matt yeah look this is a this is a rule that was changed at the start of the year i believe allowing players to call for a video review once the point has finished rather than asking for them to stop the point in the middle of a of a rally in the middle of a shot perhaps because of because of I think of a few incidents last year maybe maybe around double bounce where it was like well they were trying to get the ball up but they were then also having to think about trying to stop the point and it all seemed a bit unfair to ask the players to do those two things at once so they changed the rule and said that actually you can call for a video review after the point has finished what that has meant in reality is a few situations like this and there was even one in the in the zveria of djokovic match this week where something like a flickering light is happening at the start of a point the rally then continues for several shots the player loses the point and then asks for the point to be replayed now what goff did was totally within the rules and she actually i'd say more than anyone i've ever seen made a point of it kind of as the rally was happening she actually she actually stuck her hand up just before sun hit the winning pass to say, look, I've noticed this.

1:13:33Catherine Whitaker: I think we should probably replay the point. It was reviewed by the umpire. The decision was that it be replayed. And the thing is, it turned into a really big turning point in the match. You know, the match was very close at that point. Goff ends up getting through a tight first set, racing through the second set. This young Chinese wildcard son is in tears at the end of the match. And it was all just it was all just very, very unfortunate. But of course, like no one should ever be subjected to racial abuse, no matter what has happened. And Goff, I thought, handled that moment, handled the aftermath brilliantly as as she would.

1:14:18Catherine Whitaker: And I find the whole incident disgusting that Goff has had to face this. And yeah, what should have been a really nice match between a 16-year-old and Goff is one of the people who knows what it's like to be in that position and Son has reached three Grandstand Finals as a junior this year and she was playing really well and is a coming force and I'm excited to see her play, has ended up with her opponent, Gough, receiving racial abuse online. It's horrible. And I really feel for Coco Gough having to experience that.

1:15:00Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's absolutely grim. Let's finish the wrap-up from Beijing today on an uplifting note. Mukova and Osaka. Not uplifting for Osaka. a heartbreaker for her to lose 7-6 in the third but what a match David what a match yeah it was a real treat I felt very lucky to be happening to watch tennis at that moment you know and because they were both playing high level like near their best levels at the same time and it was back and forth and both go fiercely going for the shots probably apart from Mukova on all of her match points apart from the last couple where she just decided to go for broke because nothing else was working um but i i loved the the stoutness of the defenses of these two when they were when they were under pressure they just kept stepping up and and asaka i i i feel like asaka's lost a lot of matches like this in the last 18 months and i really i really feel like she needs to win a couple more of these to take her to the next level because i think her form is really good but that's the thing i think these two their their respective form levels are right up there you know they're playing better than sabalenka for instance at the moment i think generally um so hopefully this isn't the end of it hopefully they can have a good end to the season and then take it on into the next season it'd be brilliant to have these two in the mix and they just meld perfectly as a matchup don't they you've just got this flowing game of mukava with touch and and the kind of the opposite from osaka she's not a touch player but she just has these incredible ground strokes and power from the baseline and her serve was working it was just it's just a treat and i didn't give it i didn't care who won i love watching them and usually i kind of want to root for somebody but i was rooting for both of them at the same time and just having the best time It was awesome.

1:17:05Matt Roberts: Yeah. And we'll be back with our next pod on Friday to update you on everything that happens in Beijing between now and then. And also on the first few days of the ATP 1000 in Shanghai, which gets underway tomorrow. The draw has been done. Zverev, obviously top seed in the top half. Also in there, Alex Domenor, Flavio Caboli, Ben Shelton, Jakub Menchik, Novak Djokovic and Francis Tiafo. In the bottom half is Artifis, Alex Mickelson, Raphael Hodar, Lerner Thien, Felix Auger, Eliassime, Daniel Medvedev, Taylor Fritz and Carlos Alcaraz. Alcaraz, a lot of players in there looking for big weeks and big points to help them with qualification for Turin, especially now with the knowledge that ninth place is going to be enough to qualify for those finals.

1:18:01Matt Roberts: So our next pod is on Friday. For friends, it is tomorrow, though. We have a Q &A pod tomorrow at 8pm on YouTube live and up as a podcast for Friends of the Pod. We are taking questions from the barge. The thread is live to ask us questions for tomorrow night's show. So if you'd like to submit a question and you're a friend of the pod, head to the barge. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod, the link is in our show notes. Very much looking forward to first Q &A show in a while. They are some of my favourites. So looking forward to that. We have a returning mascot for today's show, the wonderful Aristotle, owned by two of our faves, Jason Lee and Isidro Mariscal, always in the...

1:18:54Matt Roberts: We have a returning mascot for today's show. It is Aristotle, owned by two of our faves, Jason Lee and Isidro Mariscal, always front of the queue for our live shows. and they always bring the best energy. They always laugh at our jokes at the live shows and we very much appreciate that. Aristotle is a 10 years young orange tabby cat who's queen of our household, they say, and she knows it. She loves napping in pools of sunlight and watching birds and squirrels from windowsills. She does not appreciate spectacular shot making in high stakes tennis matches due to the disruptive and startling exclamations from her dads that are never to be followed.

1:19:37Matt Roberts: She much prefers the polite applause of Wimbledon. That's very Cat of her, I think. We know that one of Catherine's favourite things is when cats act like dogs. True story. So we're including a picture of Aristotle shaking paws. At last year's New York Live show, we showed Catherine a video of Aristotle shaking paws. I remember. And Catherine thought her posture looked regal. Aristotle was thrilled with the compliment. Cats doing tricks like dogs, I go mad for that. And my Instagram algorithm knows it. There are some cats in the world that can do high fives and I will drop everything to watch those videos on a loop for an hour.

1:20:28Matt Roberts: So yeah, big fan of Aristotle, obviously, and we're big fans of Jason and Isidro. So thank you very much for making her today's tennis podcast mascot. We, of course, have our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. We have our Fantasy League transfer window tonight, designed expressly so that David can get rid of Oliver Tarvit. Yeah, I don't know what came over me for the second year in a row, but I ended up with Oliver Tarvit around Wimbledon time. He is back though, David. Sure, but he's not really in a point scoring position David and Mazie are going for the win Can't have Oliver Tarvit dragging them down Yeah, I'm sure you'll have value to add in future years, Oliver But at the moment you've added the square root of nothing to my score Bodie and I are going to have to make a big decision about Whether to get rid of Bianca Andreescu That sounds painful Well, except not, because she would get me so few points I couldn't.

1:21:37Matt Roberts: There's no value in the sale, unfortunately. Anyway, this is too tragic. Looking back to the transfer window.

1:21:45Catherine Whitaker: And I've got to get rid of Amanda Anissimova, because her season is over. All of our faves out the door.

1:21:52Matt Roberts: Are you actually going to do that? I suppose you have to, don't you? She would want you to.

1:21:56Catherine Whitaker: She would want that, yeah. Yeah.

1:22:00Matt Roberts: OK, we're quite excited for this this evening then. See you all at the Fantasy League transfer window tonight, fellow fantasy players. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:22:17Catherine Whitaker: We have Sarita Lagalwar.

1:22:21Matt Roberts: Oh, what a great name. Hello, Sarita. Love that name.

1:22:24Catherine Whitaker: Sarita says, there aren't any tennis Saritas, but my nickname is Sara, like Sara Arani. Very good Sarita Good luck Did you see the rather unfortunate video of Jasmine Paolini Serving a ball straight into Sara Arani's back In the doubles match today And poor Sara Arani did look like she was in quite a bit of pain

1:22:49Matt Roberts: Jasmine Paolini default Right It would be quite funny if Sara had turned around and said I want her out Finish her

1:23:04Matt Roberts: Oh, Sara, thank you That's brilliant I'm sure there are other Saras But Sarita is obviously happy with Sara Rani And why wouldn't you be? Thank you, Sarita

1:23:15Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Celia Rafalco

1:23:19Matt Roberts: Hello, Celia

1:23:22Catherine Whitaker: Celia lives just outside Richmond, Virginia Home to Arthur Ashe Oh, that's perfect And Celia says I've been listening to the pod since Matt was a grad It took me a few years to figure all of that out My horse Talisman was a pet mascot a couple of years ago

1:23:42Matt Roberts: I remember Talisman I think the only horse we've had We've had donkeys But I think Talisman is the only horse we've had

1:23:52Catherine Whitaker: Perfect and Celia also has Maisie a three year old English cocker and Celia says every time Maisie hears you hears you thank Bodie and Maisie she perks up

1:24:06Matt Roberts: oh oh that's lovely I had a lovely French au pair called Celia when I was a kid had big curly red hair I had very very fond associations for the name Celia. Thanks, Celia. I'm very happy to be reminded about Talisman. Amazing. Celia and Sarita, thank you very much for being friends of the pod. Hope you join us for the live show tomorrow. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod ahead of that, then the link is in our show notes. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We're back on Friday. Thank you for listening and for watching. We'll see you then.

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