The Big Andy Murray Interview

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1:12Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. Hi, I'm Andy Murray and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast.

2:00Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to The Tennis Podcast, a very special tennis podcast today. What do tennis podcasters do in the off-season, I hear you wonder. Well, they come to the Rehampton Club and they interview one of the sports greats. Great. I am Catherine Whittaker. I am, of course, joined by Matt Roberts and David Law. And we are thrilled today to be joined by Sir Andy Murray. Andy, it's great to have you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for squeezing us into your golf schedule. Do you miss seeing tennis media on a weekly basis? It's OK to stay known? Well, interestingly, I actually, since I finished, I like bumping into the media and chatting to them.

2:43has changed you know when I was playing it was something that I think tennis um because we do so many interviews and it feels to me like so many of the same interviews that it it just over time it can at times become a little bit tedious whereas now I do less interviews I don't see the media as much and I'm then like genuinely interested to one speak to the media but also So, like, it's fun. Like, I don't mind it. It's just, I think, when you play, like, 80 matches a year for 10 years and you get interviewed before every match and after every single match and it's always similar sort of questions, it's not so interesting.

3:28Matt Roberts: We're happy to be a novelty for you today. Retirement looks like it's suiting you well, 18 months in. How's life? It's good, yeah. I mean, I was genuinely unsure of what it was going to be like. I didn't know whether I would enjoy it, whether I would miss tennis and how it would fill my days and stuff. So before it came, I was a bit nervous about it. I know that it was the right decision to stop when I did. I don't regret when I retired from tennis, but, yeah, it's been brilliant. you know I've loved being a dad being at home with with the kids is is brilliant I get to do everything with them and that's you know I'm in a very fortunate position to be able to do that to you know yesterday it's 10 o 'clock on a Monday morning and I got to go and watch my daughter's hockey competition for three hours and you know it's in the pissing rain but it was you know it was brilliant I loved getting to do that sort of stuff and you know I missed a lot of those things when I was playing tennis and um yeah I've been really in really enjoying that has it taken you

4:47David Law: any time to get used to it because I'm thinking that a year ago it's it's just about the anniversary of when we all heard mouth agape that you were going to start working with Novak yeah and I just wonder if we'd have asked you the question a year ago or just before that announcement how's retirement treating you whether your answer might have felt a bit different no I was I was loving it at the time when I spoke to him I'd just finished playing um I'd had a round of golf um I was in the car on the way home when I spoke to him about the possibility of coaching and you know it was totally unexpected um at the time and it was not something that I I wasn't missing the sport in a way where I was like, oh, I'm desperate to start coaching and get on the road again.

5:39So, yeah, no, I was still really enjoying myself and was really happy being away from the sport. I hadn't been watching much tennis. I hadn't hit a tennis ball since I finished. So, yeah, I was in a good place. But it was also an opportunity where, one, I felt like I would always want to coach at some stage, something that I would probably enjoy doing. And one that if I didn't take it, I might look back on it and be like, you know, that would have been really interesting. I could have learned a lot or, you know, potentially regretted it. So I was very lucky that my wife agreed to, you know, let me go and do it for a period.

6:19And, yeah.

6:22Matt Roberts: How do you look back on it now? The coaching? Yeah. Yeah, and the kind of baptism of fire element, like that's not easing yourself into potentially being a coach, is it? That's like going in at the deep end. Yeah, well, yeah, it is. I mean, you're obviously working with, he's not just one of the best tennis players, one of the best athletes of all time. So my expectation was that it was going to be extremely challenging. um you know novak like myself is you know a challenge challenging character in terms of the way he goes about his his tennis is extremely demanding and you know i fully expected that um and yeah like i look back on it and i'm like i'm glad that i did it um you know it's an amazing experience that i've had you know i've learned a bit um obviously didn't last that long um But, yeah, like I put everything into it that I had.

7:24I tried my hardest to help him. You know, certainly initially, you know, it was going well. It was unfortunate what happened in Australia with the injury. And, you know, I watched him play in that tournament, like ridiculous tennis. In my opinion, I saw him play some amazing tennis there. And, you know, speaking to his team about that, And I was like, just so, so good, like so impressive what he's doing. And then after the injury, it was certainly a difficult few months for him, but also I think for the team and all of us. So, yeah, I was disappointed, probably didn't get the results I would have liked for him.

8:07But I learned a lot. I learned a lot about what coaching is. And like you said, because it was you throwing yourself in at the deep end, it's like you find out a lot about yourself and some of your strengths, some of your weaknesses as a coach and things that maybe you need to, you know, to work on yourself. But yeah, I was like fully invested. I was like committed to a skiing holiday before I took the job and I explained that to him. But I was sitting there like at 11 o 'clock at night, watching videos of his matches over in Australia, like editing videos to send to him. And like, I tried my hardest to, you know, to help.

8:42And yeah, I made some good relationships along the way as well with his team. I stay in touch with quite a few of the team members as well, which was good. So yeah, I'm glad I did it, but disappointed the results weren't as I would have liked. What was it like literally being on the court at the Australian Open when they had that innovation this year of coaches sitting really courtside? What was that experience like? Was it sort of even more feeling like your eyes were on you in a way? And to be honest, I wasn't bothered by that, like the cameras and stuff being there. It's just it's not a good place to watch tennis from.

9:25You know, like I don't understand why. Like coaches should be sitting, in my opinion, and the team should be sitting in the best seats in the house. I feel. And because you want to be able to watch the match properly. And sometimes a lot of the tournaments they get put in positions where they can't see properly. The umpire's chair isn't the way. And I feel like the team should be sitting directly behind the court so they get a proper view of the match and see what's going on. So from a communication perspective, it was good because you were right there and you're obviously allowed to chat to the player.

10:04So I really like that about it. But just in terms of watching a tennis match from there, it's not that easy to see from that low down. So, yes, good being close to the court, but the position of the seats were not to my liking.

10:22Matt Roberts: What was it like to witness the stress of somebody in the moment of a tennis match in the way that you have been on a million different occasions? what was it like to be on the receiving end of that and kind of witness it from the outside and absorb it yeah what was that experience like? So I actually didn't find the matches that stressful the actual once the matches started the build up to the matches I found really quite stressful because yes when you're sitting there on the side you can obviously help and give comment on what you're seeing or what the player maybe needs to do differently during the match.

11:07But actually the build-up is where the coach has to... There's lots of things that you need to do and making sure that everything is done correctly. So making sure that the rackets are right, that the practice court is booked and the practice partner is appropriate and that the videos around the match are done. And like,

11:31Matt Roberts: were you the one going in and booking the practice courts and were you that hands on doing all of that stuff? Yeah, I did. Yeah. So I did all of that stuff, which I viewed that as being, you know, my job. It wasn't like Novak said, please be the one getting my rackets and stuff. Like I wanted to do those things because like you're then in control of it. So at the end, like if you mess up the rackets, like that's, you know, that's on you. So, you know, I'd have my list of things that, you know, I had to do before the matches and, you know make sure they're they're done right and you know then you have to obviously go over the strategy and the um you know like the videos that you put together novak had an analyst as well who he was working with that helped with with a lot of that stuff as well and he was you know he was brilliant he's still working with him now um a guy called boris who helps him on the coaching side a bit as well so he was also helping with that but we spent a lot of time working on those things before the match because, you know, that's something Novak wanted, you know, making sure the videos and stuff were done well.

12:37So we spent a lot of time on that. You know, and they were all of the things that go into... And then obviously sometimes before matches, like, you know, the player needs like a bit of encouragement or like a bit of motivation or something as well. And trying to make sure you find the right words or the right moments to do those things, I think, you know, are important.

12:56Matt Roberts: Do you do good pep talk? You'd have to ask Novak. I don't know. I don't know whether I did. David's our pep talk guy. Oh, really? Yeah. Did you have one this morning?

13:07David Law: Yeah. We're here, aren't we? We're here. I'm just a general hype guy. I don't know. What was your approach? No, I think it's important for a coach to bring a good energy, I think, so that you don't want on an important day that your team comes out and is super flat, but also nervous energy is not also what a player, in my opinion, what a player needs before they walk on to play a semi-final, final of a Grand Slam. You need to bring an energy, I don't know, a bit of confidence as well, so that the player feels like you believe in them. I think so you know whether or not I did that well or not I don't know I would have to you know Novak would have to have to answer that but but I'm aware from a psychological perspective how important those things are so it's something that I would like if I ever coached again like I would work on and try and do a better job of it you'd obviously played Novak so many times and sort of observed his career kind of from the outside when you got like inside the camp was there anything about the way he operated that surprised you at all or sort of that you thought wow I didn't know that you did it like that no I wouldn't I wouldn't say so um because I've you know I've like you said I've played against him a lot I've also you know I practiced with him quite a lot particularly in our younger years um been in the gym with him lots at tournaments and things um one of the things that I really liked about his training and his physical trainer at the time Gigi who was working with him in the off season I really liked um was that he always had him in different training environments um so one day he'd be in the swimming pool the next day he would be running on the beach.

15:11Then he would be, you know, going out on the bike. Next day he'd be playing basketball. That was something that was very different to how I trained. A lot of mine was like, you know, get on a VersaClimber or get on a Watt bike and you're sort of staring at the walls and it's, you know, it's not that stimulating an environment. I liked the hard work and I enjoyed doing that, but that was something that probably from seeing Novak, I really liked that about his training which I certainly didn't do myself I thought that was really good and actually I think it's a funny story anyway but on the first day that I started working with him I turned up to the training camp and we did the practice session

16:03which his team were all kind of laughing at me because whilst Novak was warming up, I was out on the court practicing my feeding, like warming up my feeding, which they were like, I've never seen anyone do that before. And I was like, well, as a player, I used to hate it when the coach fed poorly. And, you know, I had like a basket of balls working on my feeding. So they all found that quite amusing. I was doing that. But then after the tennis session, his physical trainer was like, oh, Novak's going for like a long, sort of slow run in the park later. Like, would you mind joining him? And I was like, oh my God.

16:35I didn't run since I was about 25. Like on the court I did, but I never ran as part of my training. And I was like, it was my first day on the job. Like I can't say, no, I'm not doing this. I was like, yeah, yeah, no worries, I'll do that. Bearing in mind I also hadn't been staying in great shape since I finished. I mean, I'd been training a bit but not loads. I told him that I've not trained much, and he was like, it's fine, it's going to be a gentle run. So anyway, I went and it was like, I think it was about 50 minutes he was running for. And it was in a park and he was kind of up quite a few hills in there.

17:15Very slow pace. But after about four or five minutes, my left calf cramped. And I was like, oh no. But I can't say anything like this is embarrassing. You know, like after four or five minutes. and anyway I finished I completed the 50 minutes I was in so much pain and anyway when I finished I said to his team I was like guys I mean you need to help me out here like I've been running for 45 minutes my left calf cramped whilst I was there and I was just like I couldn't I felt like I couldn't stop you know like I didn't want to show to him like oh my god you know there's someone I've been competing against for such a long time and after five minutes you know He's struggling training with me, so I did tough it out, but it was a pretty embarrassing moment for me.

18:05Maybe he was testing you by inviting you. That run should not have been a test. It was so slow. We would have all been able to complete it. I don't know what happened, if it was just because I hadn't run for a long time or if I was dehydrated or nerves or whatever, but, yeah, it was so slow, and it was embarrassing.

18:24David Law: You mentioned that some of the incredible tennis he played at that tournament, the Australian Open, and I mean our minds all go back to the match he played against Alcaraz. So I know he's somebody you have talked about loving watching as a player and he's a great watch. What was it like trying to, I guess, prepare for him given everything he brings to the table? So honestly, that preparation was done well ahead of time. And that was something that I worked on in the offseason more with his analyst. But we worked on the core in terms of patterns of play that felt like he would work well for him against guys like Alcaraz and guys like Sinner, who they're the players that most likely he was going to have to beat if he wanted to win another major.

19:26That was my opinion. So a lot of that work in terms of the preparation of the analysis of that match had been done throughout the off-season. And tennis, in my opinion, you have to do that. And I don't think enough people do because it's one of the things that's really hard about tennis is you never know exactly who you're going to play. You finish a match on Wednesday, you've got a day to get ready for the next one. There's not lots of time to... And in that time, obviously, you've got to sleep, you've got to do your training and prepare. There's not lots of time to get ready for the opponents.

20:07So try to do as much of that work in the off-season as possible so that we weren't like scrambling around before, you know, the match with Alcaraz to, you know, how are we going to play against this guy? And, you know, can we get some videos put together to show Novak and, you know, that sort of stuff. So a lot of that was kind of done ahead of time, to be honest.

20:29Matt Roberts: Are you proud of that? Like coaching Novak to beat Carlos?

20:36yeah that wasn't me that won that match Novak won that match and he could win that match whether I'm sitting there or not but I did the best I can to help him in that match and I feel like

20:54the thing that's hard with tennis is that I think the strategy to play against him is it's a bit complicated but because we'd spent a lot of time on it I felt like it was quite clear as to how he needed to play but there's a difference between seeing a strategy and actually going out on the court and executing it as well as he did and my opinion is that there's very few people in the world that can do that so you could give a guy rank 50 in the world the best strategy you want to play against Alcaraz, but he's still probably going to win that match. Whereas Novak is that good that he is able to execute a strategy perfectly because he is so good.

21:41So yeah, I felt like the strategy for the match was a good one, but he played a ridiculous tennis match as well. And that's why he won the match.

21:52Matt Roberts: How does the feeling of coaching somebody to a big victory like that But emotionally, how does that compare to actually being the one to do the stuff on the court?

22:09It's different. I mean, I was really, really happy for him and super happy for his team.

22:20But yeah, I definitely like after the match and stuff, it was like hard to sleep still. I was still buzzing from the match and everything, and it was so good to watch. I loved it. I loved being part of that match and being courtside and stuff. It was awesome. But I would say winning as a player, being the one on the court, would be a greater feeling, but it was still really, really special. And kind of picking up on that, I remember in the final few years of your playing days, you would talk about how you'd spoken to ex-pros and they would say like kind of nothing does replace the feeling of playing, competing, winning.

23:06How have you found that in retirement? Like not having that in your life and finding other sources of joy, I suppose. And was that at all part of the motivation to get into coaching, like chasing that feeling at all?

23:25um no I don't I don't think so um I I don't feel like I've I've had to replace it like I don't I don't miss it I think like golf helps with the sort of like having a routine of like something that I'm trying to practice and get better at so I really like that part of tennis and I love sort of waking up in the morning and you know going to the gym to try and get stronger or more flexible or fitter and getting on the court and practicing things like I enjoyed that right up until the end like I was always trying to find ways to get better and I really enjoyed that so um you know the competition is hard though as well like it's not I wouldn't say that like I don't miss like standing on the baseline to serve like on the first point of a match at Wimbledon like I'm not winning Wimbledon like yes like I would love to feel that one more time but getting to that point is really difficult it's really hard and I did that for you know a long time and I don't I really don't miss that um you know I dedicated a lot of my life to it I'm glad that I did it I'm proud of what I achieved but I don't I don't know I don't I'm not I don't feel like I'm trying to fill that void um and yeah and if I felt like coaching was going to to do that um I don't think that it did I enjoyed it in a different way to how I enjoyed you know competing

24:57Matt Roberts: and playing tennis just picking up on that I remember you saying that a few times sort of speaking to you towards the end of your career citing the ex-pros you'd spoken to that had said nothing will ever replace it you know hang on to this as long as you can how that obviously hearing that obviously really stuck with you at the time how do you look back on that advice and that mindset now like you said at the start that you'd been quite fearful of retirement or certainly apprehensive like do you think maybe you were too too afraid of it um well possibly yeah i mean i i don't know but possibly but i also think that but the reason i feel like i do now is because i gave everything that i had to the sport i don't look back with any regret i couldn't well there's things i would do differently if i could have another go at it but i feel like i gave everything like physically to the sport like you know there's certainly like I said things I would have done differently but like mentally like I was fully invested in my tennis I gave my best effort to or what I thought was my my best so I don't like yeah I think I finished it at the right time I had no I had nothing more to give and I'm sure there's some athletes that finish their careers and look back and are like oh my god like I totally blew that I should have done this differently I should have worked harder I should have done and I don't have that feeling.

26:31So yes, it's possible that I was maybe too fearful of retirement, but also if I'd stopped four years before and when I had the hip problem, maybe I would have been like, I would have liked to have seen what I could have done with a metal hip and maybe would have had some regrets and wanted to go back and compete again. But I have none of those feelings.

26:54Matt Roberts: What are the things you would have done differently? I would have probably trained slightly differently. I would have taken more breaks. Certainly would have done that. I would have enjoyed the successes more. So I would have for sure taken, I don't know, an example I use quite a lot would be when I won the Olympics in London. And I flew the next day to Canada to play Masters Series there. Terrible decision. You know, I played my first match. My body was in bits. It was on a different surface. Got nothing out of doing that. And actually, why I didn't stay and celebrate, you know, that is the best week that I had on the tennis court.

27:49And the way that I celebrated that was getting on a flight the following day to go to Canada to, you know, to play over there. and stuff like that. I did the same thing after Rio. Rio, I got on a flight that night, flew with Nadal to Cincinnati and went and played there. Stuff like that, I would definitely have done differently.

28:11Matt Roberts: Was that because the number one, specifically with the Rio example, you were chasing the number one at that time, right? Yeah, so part of it was that, but I was still miles away from being number one at that stage. I still had to win what was almost every match from that point through to the end of the year. And I was sitting in my hotel room every single day with my team during that Cincinnati tournament. I was like, I don't want to play. I'm so tired. I just don't want to play. And that's where there was always a conflict with me that I was kind of, as I tell my team, I don't want to play. And then it was getting closer and closer to the start time of the match.

28:54and I was like, I've got to play. But I'd be telling them the whole day, I'm not playing, I'm going to pull out. I really wasn't that bothered about the tournament. I'd just won the Olympics. I was so happy. I think I won Wimbledon that year as well. I was in a good place. I didn't need to play in Cincinnati, but it was that wanting to compete that I was always drawn to that and some have found it hard to say no to that opportunity. And yeah, I wish like that week, for example, like I shouldn't have played in Cincinnati, but I did and got to the final. And, you know, my team would say like every day they were like, I was pulling out.

29:39I was like, I'm not playing. I'd wake up every morning. I was like, I'm not playing today. I don't want to play. So...

29:47Matt Roberts: You always had a good hype man at that time. No, they didn't want me to play either. you know and maybe you know that's something that you know at times as well like certainly in the years of my career I would have done differently but also like if I was coaching a player in that situation now I would 100 % I would stop them from playing I would pull them out of the you know pull them out of the event and stop them competing and be like look enjoy yourself like you know we've got the US Open in a couple of weeks don't go and party for 10 days but let's take a moment to appreciate what it is that you've achieved and worked for and let's reset and compete in a couple of weeks.

30:29Do you think that decision to play Cincinnati had any effect on the US Open to come? When I think of your career, maybe certain matches or tournaments that got away, Obviously, that 2016 US Open, I know Nishikori's a great player, you can lose to Nishikori, but you were in such good form that year and won so many of the other big events, Wimbledon Olympics, Tour Finals. Was there some burnout or fatigue that you were feeling at that Tour Finals? Well, I think one of the things that was starting to happen at that stage, and it had started kind of end of 2015 was that, so this is now that US Open.

31:16So it was, I don't know, like what, nine months from when my hip was like completely done. And by that stage, my hip was pretty bad. And I struggled a lot that year in long matches, in five set matches. And by the end of those matches, I was really struggling, particularly with my serve. It became an issue. And if you look at my results from being two sets to one up in slams throughout my career up till that point, it was rarely lost from that position. And then in those next few months, it happened multiple times. And I could lose those matches any way it's possible, but I know in myself that physically I couldn't serve properly and my hip was hurting.

32:07badly in those longer matches. And yeah, it's possible that if I played less tennis in Cincinnati that my hip would have been feeling slightly better at the US Open. But I don't think so. My hip was already on its way to being finished. And yeah, I lost multiple matches. Like the match against Nishikori, I lost from two sets to one up. Del Potro, two sets to one up at Davis Cup. Warrinka, two sets to one up at French Open. And that was when my hit eventually was done. But, yeah, I think it was more likely because of that.

32:47David Law: With the relentlessness of it all, the fact that you're not able really structurally, the way the tennis season is set up, to celebrate these things unless you make this decision, I'm not going to play, or a coach says, don't play. is is that something that you see as a problem for the tour in a way in the way it's structured I mean we we were talking to Jack Draper a couple of weeks ago who was concerned about the the the lengthened master series 1000 events for instance the fact that they're all a couple of weeks long now and the feeling that you can't you can't take breaks you you feel like you've got to be out there and and you burn out do you think that that is actually something that maybe structurally should change?

33:34Yeah, so the thing is, and I think that, again, it's a regret of mine, obviously as a player, a lot of players just follow what the schedule says you have to do. And Novak's a good example of that this year where he hasn't done that and at times Federer didn't do that. And you are allowed to miss tournaments. obviously there is certain penalties in place for that so yeah there's a bit of a balance to it and that's where since these longer Masters series came in I was sitting on the ATB Player Council when this got voted for to change the Masters series to longer events and I was completely against that change because, one, I liked the Masters, how they were.

34:29I thought they were great events. And my feeling was just that it's not... Yes, you would... The feeling from the ATP at the time was that there would be less injuries because you would have more time to recover between matches. My feeling was that, yeah, but if you put, like, two-week tournaments on there's like less time for players to actually recover as well and you know and I think part of the issue now is where I don't um I don't think there's anything that suggests that players are getting injured more than before um I think there's there's always been injuries and that I really I don't think there's evidence to to back that up um but I do think players are more tired um and I think mentally are more fatigued than they were before because they're spending more days away and more days on the road.

35:25And when you're more fatigued, you're more sensitive to pain and discomfort. And I think that my feeling is that that is what players are feeling now, is just being away and being on the road for longer than you used to be, rather than the matches are physically... players are obviously hitting the ball harder and stuff but the matches I don't think they're so much more demanding than they were 10-15 years ago but it's the amount of time that players are away on the road that's actually an issue

36:08Matt Roberts: We all listened to your podcast you did with Romesh which was great but one of the there was obviously lots of fun stuff in it but one of the like profound lines that really really got me was you saying that you you're proud of your career now but you weren't when you were in it like is that I felt quite sad hearing that that sort of in the moment you couldn't feel couldn't feel proud like how I don't know is that is do you wish you could have been proud at the time or do you think that feeling of always wanting more was what enabled you to achieve what you did? Yeah, so part of probably that is maybe helped me become more successful because I was always striving for more.

37:01But at the same time, I spent my whole career getting compared to... Your results are getting compared to Roger Federer or Novak Djokovic and Nadal. So, and these are the people that I was competing against and trying to get, become as good as or better than. So when you're looking at them and you're seeing that they've won 10 Grand Slams, 15 Grand Slams, 20 Grand Slams, the achievements, when you're just in the middle of that, you know, seem like insignificant almost, which is literally within probably a week to 10 days of retiring my perspective completely changed on my own career like at times you know when I was in the middle of it you know like number three in the world or four in the world and it's us it's rubbish or you get you know you get to the final of the Australian Open for the fifth time and it's a terrible result and you know the media will also help you feel that way at times as well um you know like and sport is difficult in that sense is that you have a great achievement and you're made to feel like it is a failure um as well and you know the athletes obviously because we're competitive and want to win we feel that too but when you know going to press conference afterwards and it's like you know the the mood is so like disappointing and stuff you know you will feel it um you know feel it more so yeah when you're in the thick of it and it's your job and everything like you know disappointed when I didn't win um majors you put so much into it that it you know you feel a bit like you failed but when I finished my career and I like I went and watched my daughter running a cross-country race and she finished like seventh and I was like, oh my God, that's unbelievable.

38:57Like, it's so good. So like as a parent, like I'm like, that's amazing. Like finishing seventh out of 100 kids in like the local school area. But when I was playing tennis, like we finished second in one of the biggest competitions and you're like, this is just a disaster. It's just not an ideal way to look at things. It's hard to get much happiness and pleasure out of the sport when that is the mindset. I think a lot of athletes suffer from it.

39:31David Law: One of the things that struck us last night when we were looking at your head-to-heads against Novak and Roger and Rafa, your three big contemporaries and rivals, is just how many times you did beat them. You beat them a lot. I mean, is that something that in hindsight, given what we know of them now, how incredible their careers have been, that that must give you some pleasure in hindsight? Yeah, I mean, yeah, like when I watch myself play now, which is rare, like, you know, the odd thing pops up on my Instagram feed or whatever. and yeah I like watching myself play now like when I was playing it was like so judgmental of like everything it's like oh you know the ball toss is wrong oh god that forearm is so bad or whatever whereas now like I watch it and I'm like wow like yeah like it was good like I could play pretty well but certainly didn't always feel like that when I was you know in the middle of my career I think you posted the highlights of your Australian Open semifinal against Federer in 2013 the other day.

40:42And you were like, you know, we were pretty good. And that match always sticks in my mind. I think Simon Briggs of The Telegraph called it kind of a five-set thrashing. Like you were so good in that match and Federer was fighting hard and extended it to five. Can you just talk a little bit about your rivalry with Roger specifically? something that I realised is you won six of your first eight meetings against Federer like right in Federer's prime kind of what was it about that matchup that you sort of took to early on there that you were having so much success against him do you think? Yeah so I watched him like loads when I was growing up and I used to, I took notes from watching matches and watched matches with him on Sky.

41:34Like I had an injury when I was 15, I think it was. I didn't play for like six months. And I, you know, I really enjoyed watching him. Like I loved watching him play, but I also like, I felt like I knew, again, this is where it's like from a strategical point of view, like I felt like I knew how to play against him, But certainly was never always going to execute it well because of how good he is. But I had a clear idea of how it was I wanted to play against him. And, you know, that certainly helped me early on, you know, when I, you know, when I competed against him. And the matchup was not like a great matchup for me.

42:15Like I still lost more than I won against him. But, yeah, like it was, you know, it was a good match. I had chances to win when I played against him. Obviously, in the Grand Slams, I certainly didn't do as well. And I think part of that was, yes, his game, but also the psychological impact of him having won multiple majors, me never having won one, and the nerves that I would feel going into those matches and the pressure that I would feel. Obviously, he would have felt that too. He would have felt the pressure. and I'm not saying that I would, but I think if I played him the first time when we, in slams, when neither of us had won one, I probably would have felt a bit different going on the court, whereas, you know, he had this aura about him and, you know, was always sort of described as, you know, he's the best tennis player of all time that to overcome him is, you know, is challenging in those, like the biggest, the biggest matches, but the matchup itself, like, I felt like I matched up quite well.

43:22Is there anything strategically or tactically you could just let us in on, on what for you it meant to play Roger and beat him?

43:33I get on very well with Roger now. So, yeah, it meant, well, obviously, yeah, it meant a lot for me to win against him because he was someone I watched as a kid. Like, I loved his game. You know, but I, yeah, I felt like, you know, his backhand was a side that people would say like, oh, his backhand was like weak. But I mean, in relation to what? Like his backhand would still have been one of the best backhands in the world. But in relation to like his forehand, like it was clear that that was a side that you could maybe attack. And my backhand cross court was one of my best shots. and I also used to like playing this sort of high forehand down the line that was sort of slow.

44:23That for him, I think, I'd be interested to actually know and I've never asked him about it, but I didn't always hit it like super deep. It was like kind of like high but short in the box and for a one-hander, it's difficult. You need to make a decision like early, like what do I do with this ball? Do I step into the court and try and take it early or they have to either retreat and go back behind the baseline or am I going to slice this ball? And I felt like that shot gave him some trouble, particularly early on when we played. Obviously, he figured that out the more I played against him. But there was a few things in the match-up that I felt like I could...

45:06And I think just because I've watched hours of him play, like initially like reading his game a lot of that had kind of been done before I went on the court with him the first few times.

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47:22Matt Roberts: What was it like being part of Rafa's retirement ceremony at Roland Garros last year? Yeah, I was amazing. And I think he obviously deserved that. And he seemed to be really touched by the whole thing. I thought the... Is it the footprint that's on the court? Yeah. yeah like I thought that was really that was really cool and yeah he seemed to love it which I think is what the most important thing is like obviously it's nice if it makes everyone that's watching it feel you know emotional and you know they enjoy it but Rafa seemed to really really love it so it was yeah it was great I enjoyed and you know it was actually like beforehand was also nice as well because I don't think Rafa didn't know that we were all going to go um and we were sitting in like a like a room just with roger for the most part and his his agent just chatting about tennis and or matches and what the game's like now and things like that which um yeah which was which was fun too did things like that or maybe specifically that event that helped you feel like proud to have been you were talking about sort of feeling of inadequacy because your career achievements were compared to those other three but I guess the other side of that coin is you you were a part of that big four like one of the most incredible institutions that tennis has ever seen like did a moment like that in Paris last year help you feel proud of being part of that yeah I mean look I I'm fully aware like where I sit in the pegging order there like I know that what all of those guys have gone on to achieve is far superior to anything that I did on you know on the tennis court um but I you know also there was a period like in the middle part of my career where most major events whether that was the slams master series olympics davis cup that one of those four players was was winning I granted most of the time it was then but it wasn't always um and yeah like i was proud to have been part of that period and again i'm fully aware that they what they've achieved is incredible and i think it's you know it's amazing what what they've done um but yeah there was a period in the middle part where you know i was was competing against them for the biggest tournaments um most uh most weeks and I didn't ask to go to Rafa's ceremony he'd asked for me to go so I went like because he asked me to go so when people say to me like oh well you know what you know what's he doing there what you know why is he there I was like well I didn't invite myself to go on how did it feel to be asked how did in that moment yeah I was like yeah great like you know yeah absolutely be there if that's what he wanted if he said no or when novak finishes he doesn't want me to go there and that's fine as well like but it's not me like forcing my way into that situation like unwanted so yeah did you get one of the t-shirts i don't think i don't think i did get one of the t-shirts actually they're going big money on ebay i i heard about that yeah i heard they were going for big money have you kept yours or you i gave it to my mom did you and she put it on ebay she actually uh she actually wore it to um the rafa nadal academy that she was this year and she was gutted that no one no one noticed it and said oh were you at the retirement ceremony because she had a little story to tell but no no one noticed she was a bit annoyed about that um just just on rafa actually while we're while we're talking about him obviously i feel like the thing that gets talked about the most with Nadal is obviously his incredible record on clay.

51:31Something that I'd be interested to hear from you about was what it was like facing him on grass because you had some Wimbledon quarterfinals and semifinals against him. What was the challenge of facing Nadal? Because I think people forget he reached five Wimbledon finals in a row in terms of when he was playing the event early in his career. He maybe took some losses later in his career that were surprising, but he was so good on grass quite early. I'm just wondering what was the specific challenge for you? What did he do so well on that surface that people maybe don't always think about? Well, I would say that probably he served differently on grass than how he did on a clay court, for example.

52:15That was my feeling anyway. Sometimes I played in practice against him on clay and it seemed like at times the only focus was to get the first serve in and play the point from there, so you didn't really have a chance to attack his second serve, whereas I played and practiced with him quite a lot on grass. On grass, this is just how it felt to me as a player. I don't know if this is actually the reality. I can't remember looking at the stats and all that to back it up, but he felt like he served faster, tried to serve more aces, tried to get more free points on his first serve. And then on the second serve, I felt like he also upped his speed at times on the grass court.

53:04And because of the nature of the surface, his second serve became a little bit harder to return. And he would serve quite a lot to me on a grass court, like into my forehand body. So whereas on a clay court, that doesn't, because of the way the ball reacts off the court. The spin wouldn't really cause too much issue. The serve would maybe come with a little bit more slow down off the court and a bit of topspin or kick, whereas on a grass court that wouldn't happen and it would slide through and come into my body. That was, I found, returning against him significantly harder on a grass court than on the clay and then from the back of the court.

53:45his forehand was great on every surface I think that rarely sort of let him down I mean at times if you played very fast into that side you could get a shorter ball for sure but in offensive positions his forehand was brutal on a grass court as well and then he showed it off on a clay court as well but probably more so on a grass court he finished up at the net really well like he had very solid volleys good hands he was quick at the net like anticipates well at the net and he was able to use those skills more on a grass court than maybe he did on the clay so yeah there was a few things that he did differently on on the surfaces but they

54:33David Law: would be a couple well one of the um the things looking at the head-to-heads he had against the three of them and things we've heard all four of you talk about is the work you were putting in constantly trying to well make incremental improvements or adjustments and and as Matt was saying you won six of your first eight against Federer and then at the end of his career or the end of the rivalry rather when you're still kind of at your your peak he starts to win a lot in a row and we've seen that with adjustments the two of them the three of them have made against each other what can you remember Federer maybe bringing something a little different towards the end of that rivalry can you remember any any changes that you made against any of the other three that that really made things improve for you during the rivalries um I would say that Federer like over the years got progressively like more offensive like particularly like with his court position or, you know, my second serve was average at best.

55:47And I would say that as I played against him more, like he was more offensive on second serve return, tried to get on his forehand more when I was hitting second serves. Whereas at the beginning, like he would often sort of stand on the baseline. And if I served his back, he would just like chip it back and start the rally. whereas towards the end he was making more of an effort to get on his forehand and really attack immediately in the rallies. So when I was serving, that was something he definitely did. Differently, I would say, again, his court position, that I think got tighter to the baseline as his career went on.

56:26He always was pretty offensive, but I would say more so. If you watch him from 2003-04 towards the end, And you can notice a difference there. And then, yeah, like with Novak, it was a difficult match for me because very similar game styles, but everything was just a little bit better. And I would say that the only area of where I was probably stronger was at the net. but then it's hard to sort of exploit. It's not like he's not very good at the net. He's not a terrible net player but how do you make that work in your advantage? If I want to bring him up to the net, it's not an easy thing to do.

57:21You can at times but you can't spend every point hitting drop shots or hitting short balls to try and get him to come forward. So it wasn't really that easy for me. The one advantage that I had, I couldn't use in every single point. One of the things that when I was working with Ivan Lendl, and we had lots and lots of information, data, particularly in the matchup with Novak, and one of the things which there was a big difference. So when I would hit a slice backhand to Novak, and when I got it to his backhand, most of the time he would come back with a slice. And his slice is sort of quite slow, whereas someone like Federer really knifes his slice.

58:11It was like a strength of his. Novak wouldn't miss many, but it was a slower ball. And when I got on my forehand after that shot, so when he sliced and I was the one to get on my forehand, the percentage of points that I won got was significantly higher, So that was something towards the end when I played against him that I focused on a lot. So when I would bring the slice into the rally, immediately trying to get on my forehand as much as possible. And that seemed to help a bit against him. And then Rafa, I don't remember playing him loads towards the end. Really felt like a long time since I played him.

58:50I can't really remember exactly from a strategical sort of perspective. but there was always things you were trying to adjust and learn from like the previous match but the thing that's hard and with great players like those guys is that they're also looking at those matches as well that you've just played and are like well which things work which things would I do differently next time and you know they're not showing up on the court with exactly the same game plan every single time so you're always trying to make adjustments but you have to be mindful in the match that you know things things change and that that for me is one of the hardest things about tennis and what I loved before the sort of pre-coaching era was that like on-court coaching was that you you as the player had to decide like when do I decide that this strategy is not working you know is this like six games into the match do you wait a set to see if it's working is it you know did you have any examples of that in a match against one of

59:47David Law: those where oh my word they're doing something different to what I expected or this is just not working and you change I mean off the top of my head I can't think of a like a specific match but yes like playing against them there would be you know when you play against them like as many times you go on the court and things are not happening as you want or expect and it's trying to calculate like whether is is this not working because I'm just not executing it properly or well enough or is it because they're doing something differently or does this just not work? Like I thought it was going to and it is not.

1:00:26And these are things that you have to work out when you're on the court. I thought Rafa probably was probably the strongest at that, I would say. I think he did always get a little bit of additional help from Tony on the side. but I think he was brilliant at that you know making the adjustments during matches and constantly like changing his return position or you know starting to use a slice more or changing the heights of the ball and things I would say that he was very very good at that

1:01:05Matt Roberts: I always think of the 2022 Australian Open final is like the ultimate example of Rafa doing that you you're big into data as a player and a coach sounds like do you think do you think tennis makes enough of data but tennis is probably like quite far behind other sports in that sense and like you in a lot of the team sports like they've been using like wearable technology for like well certainly the last decade but probably longer whereas it's only been allowed since last year on the ATP tour. So up until recently, players haven't known what's my heart rate doing in a five-set match and what's the load on my body and all of those sorts of things.

1:01:55I mean, you could get estimates or guesstimates, but nothing exact. So I think that certainly is something that should help the sport, help players and teams understand how they should be training more effectively, which would then hopefully reduce injury risk and things like that. And then data has been around for a while, but it's only recently been, sorry, like statistics and stuff for matches. It's been around a while, but it's only really become available to all the players fairly recently in the last few years, Whereas beforehand, you had a lot of the top players paying companies to provide their data on their matches, which was an advantage for sure.

1:02:47Whereas now, a lot of that data is available to all of the players on one platform. So I could log on and see Al Karaz's last 80 hard court matches and look at his serving patterns and things like that. but again that's also challenging because well you know players change like from week to week sometimes and it's knowing how to present that data like in the correct way to your player and lots of the I would say sort of The older generation of coaches probably didn't have that when they were playing themselves and then didn't have it during their coaching career. So I don't think some of them are reluctant to use it as well.

1:03:36And some people think it's just overkill and there's too much analysis and too much data and there's not enough sort of feel for how someone should play against an Alcaraz or whoever. So it's hard. And then that comes down to the player, I think, and what does the player actually want, rather than the coach just going, I'm very analytical, I love data, so I'm just going to throw all of it at this player when actually someone like an Alcaraz plays a lot on instinct, I think, and probably don't want to overcomplicate things for him. So, yeah.

1:04:11Matt Roberts: Did you see the picture he posted last week of him watching the Davis Cup? No. The picture of his living room with all his trophies chaotically cascaded around his living room. Oh, really? He's got like his Wimbledon trophy. At the back, on the top shelf. On an Ikea bookshelf and sort of the Cincinnati ceramic. It's chaos. You need to get a proper trophy. Very endearing chaos. Where are all your trophies? um so when we moved house my wife made like a like a trophy cabinet like it's downstairs out the way but yeah there's one in there must be pretty big yeah yeah it is pretty big yeah it's decent uh decent decent size um yeah but actually i mean like i'm fine with them obviously like being in there but you know it's not so I don't go and you know I don't go and look at them like daily and I'm like oh look you know I'm not it's not yeah not something I think about um yeah not something I think about loads but yeah is the is one of the Olympic golds is it the Wimbledon Museum it was yeah I actually got it back last week yeah it'd been in there for I think about a year um but yeah I got it I got it back recently the the Olympic medals in the trophy cabinet as well do you have Olympic medals yeah they're in there do you ever wear them do you ever wear them my kids wear them my kids sometimes uh yeah okay and I was quite precious about them at the beginning but no I'm just whatever scratch them up and stuff keep them up yeah one of them wanted to take one of them into school I don't know what it was they were doing some um that would be something you were doing something that's cool wouldn't it and um yeah we're like no that's a bit it's a bit much to send them in with one of them so we gave them like the my beijing olympics like participation medal um instead which they were happy with have you got your olympic pins still i've still got all of them yeah i've kept all of them um they'll be worth something on eBay as well?

1:06:23Yeah, maybe, yeah. I mean, that was something that at the time, like, I absolutely loved doing it every single Olympics, whereas now I'm a bit like, did I just spend a bit too much time walking around, like, the village and, like, stopping, like, at different tables in the restaurant, just like, oh, that guy's from Eritrea, like, that's a rare pin. Like, I'll go over and ask him if he's got one, and they're just, like... Did anybody ever refuse? I'm like, okay, go away from me.

1:06:53Matt Roberts: Did anyone ever refuse to give you a pin? Yeah, I mean, you get rejected all of the time. All the time. Right, okay. Like, it's a proper game, like, you know.

1:07:04David Law: What, people want to stop you having them so they can beat you? Yeah, and also, like, you know, they obviously want pins in exchange for you giving, you know, some people don't care. They just want to get rid of them so that when people show up and they're like, oh, do you have any pins?

1:07:20Matt Roberts: People are like, no, I don't have any. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a bit of a game, and I got really quite into it. And I got most of the – I'd say most of the tennis team were not into it to the same level as me, but I got quite a few of them on board, I think.

1:07:38David Law: Andy Murray in competitive shock. Yeah. you mentioned um earlier on that you voted against that uh decision to extend the masters 1000s now that you've you're out of it all you can look on from the side of us what would you do with tennis i mean if you could i mean if you could if you could start again is there is there a is there a change above all other that you'd love to see the tours the circuit the sport make um yeah that well there's there's quite a few things like there's a few things I would probably yeah that I would probably change um you know at that time as well there was also there was exemptions at the master's series level you could get up to three exemptions and they were they were quite hard to like achieve one of them was like you had to be I think you It was an age-related one, so I think it was over 30, but it could have been more, like 32 or something, but you had to be over 30.

1:08:47You were allowed to miss one and not get penalised. There was a match-related one, so if you played over, again, I'm going to get this wrong, but it was, let's say, 600 matches. You were exempt. And then there was one that was a certain amount of years of service on the tour so let's say it was like 12 years of service so you could in theory miss up to three master series and not get penalized and that was one of the other things that when this vote was taking place was that the master series were like well we want to put up all of this prize money we want more days but we want to get rid of the exemptions which again i was totally i was against that because what I just think is like players get older like you you need to prioritize like certain tournaments and obviously your body has wear and tear on it and you need to make decisions like at times like well I'd like to play this tournament but you know the right thing for me is to to skip events um and also and I believe this used to be the case but if not it should be is that, like, let's say you missed, with one of those exemptions, let's say I missed the Paris Masters one year.

1:10:06Well, then you can't miss that same Masters series the following season. And I think that that's something that, I think they should bring the exemptions back for players. So then at some stage, like, you're allowed to miss events, but also bring back the, because then the tournaments are not going to be like, well, I don't want that because then Alcaraz could just miss, you know, whichever Masters series he doesn't like for the rest of his career without any penalties. And I think that's also where, and I know a lot of people wouldn't like it because it would mess with records and things like that.

1:10:43I don't know if there's a way around it, but having like a two-year ranking system would allow players to feel less pressure to have to compete every single week for ranking points and worry about losing their ranking if they get an injury for three or four months. You know, that's something that I think could help, but I don't know how that would work with, you know, with, like, the record books. You know, that's a challenge if you go down to your ranking system. And, yeah, there's loads of other things that I would, you know, I would want to change.

1:11:23Matt Roberts: how protective do you feel of best of five in men's tennis like is that a red line is protecting the existence of best of five in men's tennis in grand slams is that a a red line that you wouldn't cross or do you think that kind of everything needs to be on the table because it would solve a lot a lot of problems getting rid of best of five or having some sort of system where it's best of three for men and women in the first week of slams best of five second week of slams it would it would even up the formats across men's and women's tennis it would protect bodies like there'd be a lot of advantages to it but it's obviously something that for good reason people within the sport are fiercely protective of because there's you know a lot of a lot of highs and this year you know you've got the example of the french open final where it's pretty hard to campaign for getting rid of best of five when you've just had that match that wouldn't have existed without it yeah and i think that for me like best of five was was great for like better players longer the matches go on more chances for you to come back and figure out and work things out um so as a player like i loved it i as a fan like i personally this is just i would not sit and watch a best of five set match now um because it's too long have a family got other things to do i wouldn't i wouldn't watch um but tennis fans seem seem to enjoy best of five formats but i think what it comes back to is like what is what is actually the problem like with tennis like what is it that everyone wants to change like what is so bad about it like it's hard like people not everyone agrees on what the issues actually are.

1:13:11And some people, players will always complain. I did when I was a player. A lot of the things that the players are complaining about now, they were complaints 20 years ago, whether it's prize money related, too many tournaments, schedules wrong. you know the players will always will always complain about stuff probably but I think for things to change probably the players need to be very clear about what it is that like what do you actually want what are actually the problems and does everyone actually agree on them because sometimes you might hear players say too many tournaments, play too much.

1:14:02Generally, it's the top players that will say that. Players rank 70 in the world maybe doesn't want less tournaments. They maybe want as many tournaments as possible to earn money and more ranking points or opportunities for ranking points and things. Whereas the top 10 players in the world, generally, they feel like they want to play less, which is understandable. They play more matches and stuff. but then yeah they also they want to play exhibitions as well and you know it's like oh there's too many tournaments but the mixed doubles at the US Open like that's a new event we all want to play in that this is an amazing idea we all want to play more tennis because we're getting paid lots of money to do it and we're getting appearance fees to play and but then lots and lots of other tennis players particularly doubles players were hating that idea, but the top players loved it.

1:15:01So there's always, like, it's hard to get all of the players to always agree on things. There's too many tournaments. We're going to put a new Masters here in Saudi Arabia. There's going to be lots and lots of money. Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. We all want to play in that event. That's really good. So it's hard to know exactly what it is that, what all the tournaments won, what the Grand Slams won, what the players won, and to come to some sort of agreement. It's very difficult.

1:15:37Matt Roberts: Would you have wanted to play in that event? You famously turned down a big offer from Saudi. Yeah, so I think where it becomes difficult is that there's obviously exhibitions and players choosing to go and play there for money. And the tour that you're playing as part of making decisions about where they're going to host an event. And if they're going to put a Masters series on and it's a mandatory event that players have to go and play, well then I'm going to play there because the ATP are putting an event on there as part of my tour. and I'm going to go and compete there because that's how I earn my living.

1:16:16Whereas an exhibition is a decision that a player is taking. Like, I want to go and play in this event. I want to earn lots of money. I was offered to play in an exhibition in Saudi Arabia. Multiple times I said no, that I wasn't going to do that. But then, yeah, we also play in lots of countries around the world that have maybe questionable human rights records. And we went and played in those countries, particularly when it was part of our tour, and that was not considered a problem. So, yes, it's challenging. It's challenging for the sport to get everything right and to keep everybody happy.

1:17:04but I do think there is things that like one of the things that players complain about all of the time is they say I was one of them as well I'm not saying that it's just players of today like you know players 20 years ago complained about it and stuff it was like the tennis balls you know it's like oh tennis balls are changing every week tennis balls are so heavy is what you hear all of the time and the tennis balls are not more heavy than they used to be. Like, there is a limit that they have to sit between, which has been the same for, like, over 20 years. Tennis balls are not heavier than they used to be, but the game has changed, I would say, and players are hitting the ball harder, for sure.

1:17:50The courts have become, like, grainier and slower, generally. And the balls, because of that, like, because I think the players are hitting the ball harder, grainier courts, slower courts, sandy courts, is that the balls it always sounds funny talking about this, but the balls fluff up more you know then they're less aerodynamic they become slower, so they're not actually heavier, they're just slower tennis balls and I feel like if that is the case, that what the tourers could do is just easily like why don't you change balls after five and seven games instead of seven and nine games? Like, if that is an issue for the players or why don't you start the match with nine balls instead of six balls?

1:18:43You know, yes, there's probably a cost that comes with that. But if that is something that all of the players have an issue with, then why could they not do that? And also, like, if they're worried about the balls changing every week well couldn't the couldn't the tours like create their own tennis ball and then whoever is whether it's I don't know Wilson, Head, Yonex like if they want to sponsor the ball for the event just sponsor it and print the Yonex logo on it or the Wilson logo or whatever and the players then have got the same ball for a whole season or a whole string of events like on the hard courts or clay and they don't you don't hear the complaints about them changing ball the players would probably still find a way to complain about it but if they were the same every week then you you can eliminate that quite quickly I would think I don't know if that's something that the manufacturers want like but I don't think it's good for manufacturers to create a ball and then the players to be just saying every week this ball's terrible posting pictures of it like oh look at the difference from one game to the next these balls are awful so I don't see

1:20:03Matt Roberts: why that couldn't couldn't work was being on the player council frustrating from all these points of view sort of lack of unity of feeling and cohesion and sort of cohesion of agendas and aims yeah I hated it and I went back to do it a second time because I'd been asked to do it and I was I didn't enjoy it first time did it again but yeah just I didn't enjoy it because you know sometimes you would be sitting in meetings like the day before a master's series for three or four hours and um you know it didn't feel like much was getting done like you you know tennis tennis players like obviously we understand their sport but also we're not like intelligent people most of us um you know are well educated either so you get like 10 of us in a room like talking about stuff that we don't really know that much about um you know like from a business perspective um and yeah at times it was just like lots of players having conversations to the person next to them and actually nothing really gets done and then at times like i remember going into meetings with the slams um with uh with roger rafa novak about about prize money i can't remember exactly what year it was but anyway we went to quite a lot of these meetings and spoke to all the slams you know individually before these slams took place which is obviously a time where you know you want to be concentrating and focusing on your tennis and preparing and stuff but you know did it because felt like it was the right thing to do and then the slams at the end of that year like they increased their prize money and i remember it was like australia announced um when we were there, I think, like, you know, that they were going to increase their prize money or whatever.

1:22:11And then the first player that I saw, I'm not going to name his name, went up to him and was like, who'd been complaining and was so vocal about the prize money. I was like, look, I was like, they did it. Like, we went and spoke to them, they did it. They've upped the prize money by however much it was. And he was like, yeah, but it's not enough. And I'm like, God. Well, you know, like, so I don't know. I don't know what it is that exactly what it is that the players won. Yes, the players, I feel, should probably get paid more at the Grand Slams. But I think if they really want to change it, they need to be very clear about what it is that they actually won.

1:22:56And I think the tour could be, you know, the ideal thing, I think, would be like if the Australian Open was like two weeks later. But then it makes sense to do it like that because the players then get a longer off-season time to rest and then actually build up and prepare. But then the Australian Open don't want to move because it's then not in the kids' summer holidays. so they're back at school and they're worried about like attendance and things like that um so yeah i i don't know there's just there's always there's always um yeah there's always problems yeah that just about sums it up ai is only as powerful as the platform it's built into

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1:25:03Matt Roberts: should we finish with some more stuff about you some lighter stuff i'm curious um what's like the most normal thing that you've gotten to do and gotten to enjoy that you didn't used to get to do like i mean i probably i wouldn't describe it as like a normal thing to do we're lucky that were able to do it but uh skiing like I've absolutely loved doing I never never skied in my life had always wanted to like I love the snow is that because of risk of injury yeah I mean I I think contractually there's a few issues around getting injured doing like extreme sports um it invalidates health insurance so I'm sure yeah so I think you need to be a bit careful about doing it I know some players, you know, I think like Sinner and like Novak's a very good skier as well.

1:26:00So, yeah, I know that lots of players do it, but I never skied as a kid. I'd always wanted to ski, but it was pretty much everyone I know that has skied has injured themselves skiing. My best friend who went skiing with Ross Hutchins, who's now got a big job at the ITF as well. So a lot of these issues we're discussing, he'll be responsible for. No, but yeah, like he fractured his eye socket when we went last time. Yeah, so lots of people that I know that ski have had bad injuries. Have you been okay? Skiing? Okay in terms of no injuries. You're quite careful. Okay in terms of my level of skiing, no.

1:26:49It's pretty ropey. but I've loved doing that like yeah like a new thing that I've got to experience since I finished which I've done with my friends and family that you know kids are learning to ski and yeah like amazing it's just amazing thing to get to do great skill to have and brilliant holiday so yeah

1:27:11David Law: I've seen you um advertising potatoes yes um do you now that you've got this time on your hands apart from the golf, have you got a specialist go-to family meal that you prep? Do you like time in the kitchen? Apart from the potatoes.

1:27:28Matt Roberts: What's your favourite type of potato? If you could only have one type of potato. Sorry to hijack your question, just to stay on potatoes for another moment. Mashed jacket, dauphinoise. I mean, I like a thick cut chip. oh you don't no i'm really i'm a skinny fry person well skinny is more unhealthy yeah but it's about vinegar absorption it's you vinegar on chips vinegar on everything yeah it can go on yeah ketchup or brown brown sauce okay so do you you're telling me you hand make chips no with okay no no no okay no i don't hand So sorry, back to David's question. So my cooking, I don't cook.

1:28:19I'm a terrible cook. I'm glad I hijacked the question. I used to cook more. So we get these like sort of, they're not ready meals, but from Mindful Chef. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. So I would do them. You do this. But there's obviously like there's a recipe that you follow and all of the ingredients are there. So you don't mess up like the amount of stuff. A lot of handholding. Yeah. But the problem for me is that I will follow the instruction down to a T. And if something is not going quite right, I haven't had no idea how to make adjustments. So like if I was making like like a sauce that needed to be thicker and the 20 minutes was up or however long it was meant to be.

1:29:07it was like panic stations. So I didn't know how to react to issues in the kitchen. And then we ended up having a terrible meal when I was doing that. So then I retired from cooking as well as tennis.

1:29:26Yeah, I was all right because I was just cooking for myself. So if it was a disaster, it's less of a disaster. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but when you're trying to feed a family, it's a bit of pressure. Yeah, kids aren't always that...

1:29:44Matt Roberts: Forgiving? Yeah, forgiving. If you get a meal wrong or something's not quite right, particularly my four-year-old, she'll let you know. If they enjoyed having you around more.

1:29:58I think so.

1:30:00Matt Roberts: It takes some getting used to for the family. for the family because I'm guessing like they had a routine like yeah I mean particularly my eldest for particularly my eldest daughter um the rest of them not so much because yes I was still playing at the end but there was also quite quite a few periods where I was at home um a lot through the injuries and and things so I wasn't on the road quite as much whereas with my oldest daughter like it was I think quite like a big change for her like a big adjustment and like because you know she was finding it hard like if I had to be the one to take her to school or to pick her up and take her to a club or being around her friends and things like that and that's something that she certainly was finding difficult and if I was getting any attention when I was with her she really like struggled with you know really struggled with that and it was only last week when I picked her up from netball and it was the first time she actually walked next to me back to the car and yeah I said to her I was like you know that that's the first time you've ever and she sort of smiled at me and I think no it's a bit less embarrassed by me for now for now yeah I'm And I'm sure in a few years that's, you know, that's coming.

1:31:23But yeah, like this morning, like my son's got into board games. Like I already had, they were up at 5.45. That's every morning. Two of them get up at that time. I was playing Monopoly 6 a.m. this morning with a six-year-old. That'll get the competitive juices flowing. Yeah, so yesterday. It's quite a long time to play a game of Monopoly. my parents tell me about it I know monopoly in my house because it caused so many arguments to me and my brother yeah yeah so I taught him how to play monopoly a few days ago and then I played I played with I played with him yesterday I played two games with him and he won the first game and then the second game he was in a good position and he'd got it in his head that it was just me and him playing that he wanted to put hotels on mayfair and park lane this was monopoly sterling edition by the way which it's sterling castle and somewhere else in sterling okay so he decided he wanted to put hotels on the two blue ones he only had mayfair so i was explaining to him like you need to land on this one first you've got three of this the red ones like you should probably think about putting the houses and stuff on there first.

1:32:45And he was like, no, I'm going to save my money not putting, I want to land on this one. And I was like, yeah, but you may never land on it. Anyway, I had the purple ones and the orange ones, or the pink ones and the orange ones. And I had a few, like three houses on the pink ones. He was in a great position. He had lots of money, landed on the pink ones, got whatever it was 400 500 quid and then i used that money to put like a hotel on the orange ones and then on his next role he landed on the hotel killed him off took him down bottom lip when gone and i'm like that's an important life lesson what's yeah like you need to do it like he needs to learn but i'm like now i have to deal with like a meltdown over a game monopoly that i've been playing for the last two hours anyway that's what i do now i can tell yeah yeah

1:33:47Matt Roberts: um how do you say on romesh's podcast you've got ambitions to be a caddy is that right i mean i would i would like to do it um but it was like in a certain context like Becoming a caddy full-time is not something I would do, but as a dream job, for me now, if you could say, it's a realistic thing, it's possible. I couldn't say, oh, I want to win the Masters in golf, but saying, oh, I could become a caddy. And imagine caddying for Rory McIlroy or Robert McIntyre in the last group of a major. Like that would be, you know, be a cool thing to do for someone who loves golf. But I have no plans to actually become a professional caddy and do the job full time.

1:34:43There's a lot of work and travel involved. And, you know, these guys are bloody good as well. Like they spend years like understanding like that profession. And they're all, most of them, very, very good golfers as well. So, I mean, it's something you could probably do for a week. Like some, you know, players have, you know, their partners with them on the bag and stuff. Like, you know, they're not all amazing golfers, but.

1:35:09Matt Roberts: My golf coach's wife is his caddy. Really? Mm-hmm. And I think Lee Westwood's wife as well. They remain married, yeah, yeah. Are you up for offering some golf tips or assessments? Yeah.

1:35:26David Law: As a final thing, we have a one-minute video. I haven't asked about the traitors yet, David. Well, that is true. We have a one-minute video of Matt and my swing, and we're curious to know what you think. Have a look.

1:35:39Matt Roberts: This is Indian Wells, a couple of years ago. Right, so, I mean, even before you started... Oh, no. I mean, that looks to me like you're literally, like... I mean, it's okay. It looks like quite a lot of your weight is on your heels. It's actually quite useful. already where should it be I think more slightly more towards the like mid front of the foot I would say do you play a lot of golf what do you think see it always makes me laugh when amateurs do this sort of thing because you sort of you might know that you do this you did like a little wiggle I've got a bit of the man chilling that's going to help I do it as well we go through this routine and then hit the ball like 20 yards in front of us.

1:36:26And it's just, yeah, it's funny. So you've got a little wiggle going. That was his first shot of the round. That was first shot of the round. I mean, I was barely off the plane, to be honest. Yeah, you did the wiggle twice there. Three, three, four. So I'd try and get rid of that. Okay. Right. Wow. You hit a bird there, it looks like. Yeah. It's good. I assume you weren't trying to do that. There's more coming, isn't there? I go, yeah. Do you come on straight after this? Oh, God. Nice shoes. Thank you. Okay. Oops. Wow. I mean, those hands are literally in between your legs, which is incredible.

1:37:09You do have some... Oh, my Lord.

1:37:15You do have some serious height, which makes it tricky. I mean, I'm assuming they're rental clubs as well. Yeah.

1:37:23David Law: so yeah I mean this is where it ended up yeah I mean did you enjoy your round I mean there's not loads I can say about that I feel worse about it now it got better

1:37:37Matt Roberts: it got better so your advice to David is be less tall and your advice to Matt is get rid of the wiggle yeah I think weight probably slightly further forwards I mean the four wiggles before cut those out I think it's like fine You've got to hit a good shot. Yeah, fine if you're going to hit a decent shot. But if you spend that much time preparing to hit the ball that badly, I think the people that you're playing with are like, oh my God, this is his third tee shot. First two have gone in the water. And he's wickering. Let's just try and get the swing going, I think. Noted. But yeah, I think it looked like you needed maybe some longer clubs, potentially.

1:38:13They looked a little bit small. Okay.

1:38:17David Law: And then I'll be fine. Yeah.

1:38:19Matt Roberts: Can I ask one last question? Have you been asked to go on the Celebrity Traitors? No, but it's funny because a lot of people have asked me that and apparently there'd been some articles saying one, that I was going to go on the first season and then, I don't know, that I'd been asked to go on the next season. Neither of them are true. I haven't watched it. Would you take the call? No. Do you watch Traitors? I watched one of the first seasons of Traitors with the, like... Civilians. Civilians. Yeah, the Civilians. But, yeah, all of my friends have been talking about the Celebrity one. I haven't, I've not watched any of it.

1:39:01My wife was totally anti the Civilian one, which I was actually quite enjoying, but then, yeah, Celebrity one I've not, I haven't watched yet. I'm sorry to disappoint.

1:39:12Matt Roberts: You could just be being a great Traitor and, you know... Maybe it gets announced next week, but I'm on that. We'll cross our fingers. Andy, thank you so much for your time. It's been great. That's all right. Thank you.

1:39:29As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day. It's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

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