US Open Day 1 - Can Djokovic take much more of this?

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1:22Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, coming to you from New York on day one of the 2026 US Open, the final major of the tennis season. I'm Catherine Mitko. Alongside me, as always, are David Law and Matt Roberts. And together, we are the Tennis Podcast, bringing you daily shows right the way through until the end of the tournament in 14 short days from now. It is half past midnight as we record this show on day one of the Open, and we have all just shared the very unfamiliar experience of watching 39-year-old Novak Djokovic lose in the first round of a Grand Slam tournament for only the third time in his more than two-decade career, and the first time since January 2006.

2:13He was beaten tonight by world number 49, Mariano Navone, 75, 57, 4-6, 6-2, 6-1 in a gruelling match on the Arthrash Stadium that finished up just a few minutes

2:28Matt Roberts: ago. David, so much of what we saw tonight was actually very familiar. The Djokovic theatrics, the improbable revivals, the running forehands hit from full splits. we've seen all of that for years from Djokovic we've come to expect it and yet we've also come to expect him to get there in the end to get over the line somehow certainly in majors and against players ranked 49 in the world but what we saw for the final hour of tonight's match was not the same Djokovic that we've been watching for years not even the same one that we've been watching this year for me anyway that was a that was an incredibly tough watch certainly the last hour

3:19David Law: of tonight I don't know how you experienced it yeah it was truly sad to witness that and I think that's how he felt as well because he was rendered completely unable to play uh for for a couple of sets there at the end he was fighting it throughout he was fighting his own body from a very early stage and the way he described it in the in the sort of press comments that he's just given is that you know he starts to feel nauseous and i mean he was actually fully sick tonight on the

3:51Matt Roberts: court which was a really gruesome don't remind me david espn ran a ran a slow-mo replay of that

3:59David Law: yes um and and then the the he gets more and more dehydrated he gets his body starts to lock up and he just can't really cope with what this sport is asking him to do anymore. And particularly in New York, in the sort of humid conditions, he hates the humidity. He always has, really. But he's 39 years old. You know, it's a very particular thing he's trying to pull off in a very physical way. And it overcame him, really, tonight. And that's what's unusual. That's the unusual part. Usually he's able to find something, choreograph something almost with a crowd, conduct a situation, make the opponent nervous and fall off and then get his own adrenaline going.

4:50David Law: Something. He can usually find something. But there was a look of resignation about him in the latter stages of the match, which I'm just not used to seeing. I mean, he has retired in the past, and he said he considered it tonight in the earlier sets, but he just didn't feel in the fourth and fifth he could retire. But to see him crying mid-match, and I can only guess as to why he's crying, but my guess is that it's the realisation that I just can't do it. I'm trying hard, and I'm at a grand slam. I've got 20 ,000 people chanting my name to give them more and to provide more and to try to push myself more, and I just can't.

5:34David Law: And maybe he's sort of seeing his own tennis and athletic mortality, really, at the top level in real time. I'm only guessing, but that's kind of what it looked like and felt like out there.

5:49Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it felt like the moment. it felt like the moment we're all gonna look back on is the time Djokovic couldn't do it anymore to be honest like there were two things about this that were really unusual and different from his Grand Slam defeats recently obviously the end as you've as you've talked about when we've seen him lose at Grand Slams typically it's either been you know a defiant and brilliant performance early in the draw like against Fonseca at the French Open where he was still going after almost five hours playing really well looking strong just just beaten by a by a great performance or it's been at the end of a tournament against a sinner or an Alcaraz and he's not had much left against them but it's been a sort of vaguely competitive defeat but he's been amazing along the way to get there and he's he's defied everything so it was very different from that sense but to me i think the thing that was most different was how early he looked gone in this

7:02Matt Roberts: match four games we all said it didn't we after four games and actually in the little huddle press conference that he's just given he confirmed that didn't he that he he was starting well not starting to he was feeling pretty rough after yeah just the opening 20 minutes of that match

7:20Catherine Whitaker: and he looked flat he looked pale he looked unwell he looked like he wasn't enjoying it his tennis wasn't good his his serve was really bad his forehand was off he lost that opening set and I was on alert for this a little bit because of what we'd seen in Cincinnati obviously against where he actually started that match really well and physically faded after about 45 minutes, an hour maybe. But it was brutal conditions in Cincinnati, really bad conditions. Heat and humidity. Totally. And, you know, Taranto looked like he was having a terrible time as well. Today, it's humid for sure, but it's, you know, by tennis standards, it's not that bad.

8:09Catherine Whitaker: It was hard to explain it in terms of the conditions. It felt more like a Djokovic problem. And it just happened so quickly to him out there. And he was fighting it all the way until eventually he no longer could. And then when his back gave out, that was like the final moment. And the final stretch of this match, if anyone hasn't seen it, was just Djokovic completely going through the motions.

8:37Matt Roberts: like yeah he was barely moving it was over he just didn't want to didn't want to retire it made me think of i haven't had the chance to watch all of the wolf in winter the novak djokovic documentary which came out last week um it's on amazon prime isn't it i haven't had a chance to watch all of it but i have seen the line from andre agassi on there saying the end always comes fast and that is what I had in mind tonight because I know that this year we have watched this man reach a Grand Slam final we watched him reach a semi-final in the last Grand Slam he has been repeatedly telling us throughout and despite all of the ups and downs and increasing downs that he's had over the the past few months and years his plan is and has always been to play until the la olympics in the summer of 2028 and he's never in his own mind deviated from that plan if his body allows him that's the plan and i i believe him i i take him at his word on that and for that reason i've sort of steered us away we've all steered away from god is this it though is he going to be back next year really can he keep doing this for another year because he's telling us that's his plan so we've got to take him at face value on that but it did become quite hard tonight to to imagine him being able to do this for another two years the LA think you said in the middle of the match tonight think how long ago the Paris Olympics already feels well it's that amount of time again to la 2028 and the the crucial line and look this is how it looked all evening this evening but he's just told us in plain words moments ago in his press huddle he said i despised every moment that i spent on the court yeah and that's kind of that was hard

10:42David Law: to witness really because he loves this sport he he's he speaks in such childlike terms about it when he's away from the the combat in the immediate aftermath of a defeat like that he talks with such warmth and i think that is one of the problems for for the athletes who really love it you know that is is giving it up um but to watch him for four and a half hours like that with his wife and his two young kids there right to the very end and him just unable to be the kind of superhero that everybody's used to seeing. You could see that feeling, but to articulate it by saying I despised it all, well, I think it says a lot.

11:32David Law: And I think the thing is he is a fairly part-time tennis player these days. is the reason he's playing is for these events and obviously the Olympics, as you say, in two years' time. But he's got this impossible equation whereby most players need to play other events, a lot of other events in order to prepare for these, to become battle-hardened, to become robust enough to handle these sort of tournaments. And he doesn't want to play many of those. I totally understand he's been a pro for 20 years. He's nearly 40. he just wants to play these and he wants to keep enough energy in the tank and stamina and reserves so and and yet he's come out here and after four games he can he's just a shadow of himself and it's fair you know he managed to get two sets to one up it's it's easy to forget almost that he actually turned the match around but he couldn't finish it off and that's the first time i've ever seen him get the upper hand like that and just fade into nothingness and navoni played really well and it's it's one of those things where you know this the story isn't navoni you know it just isn't so it's but but i will give him the flowers to say i think he actually played really well and made sure that he won and took advantage of what djokovic was giving him there he was pretty

12:54Matt Roberts: ruthless at the end actually wasn't he got you got the hot 20 000 people chanting your childhood heroes names he's crying through his way through a service game that's pretty distracting stuff for a guy that's never been anything like that situation before and there he was drop shotting away giving his 39 year old hero the runaround it was it was impressively ruthless i thought

13:20David Law: The other thing is, with all of the resources that Djokovic has got and all of the kind of intelligence he approaches health with, because he is the most fussy of players that I've seen. And I mean that in a positive sense as somebody who just leaves nothing to chance, conscientious. You know, he is so deliberate about everything he does to maximise his physical performance. and he said, I don't know what's happening. That's what I've got to find an answer to and figure out.

13:57Catherine Whitaker: That's it. I mean, he is talking about it in terms of something that he might be able to fix.

14:03Matt Roberts: A specific problem that has a solution out there if only he could find it rather than the problem of ageing, which as far as I can tell... No one's solved. Nobody's solved.

14:15Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. So, look, maybe there's a scenario where he's got this specific health problem that he's dealing with and he can make it better and he can go forward and not look like this again in tournaments. Perhaps that's possible. But I don't know. I mean, thinking about his stated goal of the Olympics, two years is just such a long time. especially if more and more events are going to look like this. And one of the things he does say in the documentary is what David's talking about. Everything in life is geared towards performing on a tennis court, everything he does in his life. And. Two years is an awful long time to keep that up if you're despising moments on the tennis court.

15:15Catherine Whitaker: I don't know whether he's going to be prepared to do that. I would have thought not.

15:24Matt Roberts: Despise is quite a word. It's such a strong word. I know that's fresh from the moment, but he was pretty composed speaking there. It didn't feel like rash. And, okay, this experience of losing in the first round is new and a shock to him, but this health issue that's a bit of a mystery to us in terms of its detail is something he's been aware of and worried about for a long time he first kind of revealed it to us after the loss in in Cincinnati but he yeah he he knows he knows what's up here and he knows how serious it is I don't think it was a shock to him that it was it was a problem tonight even if the result ended up being a bit of a shock to the system.

16:16Matt Roberts: But yeah, I mean, it's always something, isn't it? This is ageing. Ageing isn't... I mean, I suppose it also is a steady, slow decline. But Federer, it was a knee injury, wasn't it? He didn't stop just because he incrementally reached a stage where it seemed like maybe he had crossed over the line from competitive to just not quite competitive enough. There was a thing. There's usually a thing. Things happen more frequently as you get older. That is how it goes. Yeah, and, well, Nadal's last Grand Slam match

16:59Catherine Whitaker: was a round one loss, and Federer's last Grand Slam match was a round... Four? four loss but bad and a six-loss set a six-loss set you know um yeah and i'm not saying that this is navet djokovic's last grand slam loss like i do think we probably will see him again but it felt like a it felt like something that might change his plans yeah because and this is also you know we've talked so much about the moment that men's tennis is in right now and even coming into this one given the uncertainty around Alcaraz and Sina being out and Djokovic having just reached the semi of the of the previous slam it felt like okay it's going to be a long shot but at least he's still got a shot and and

17:53David Law: he's always said that he wants if he's going to carry on he wants to be able to contend for the title he wants to feel that he's actually able to win the thing um and i think i don't think it's impossible that he might be able to play two more years in order to play that olympics but how many horrible defeats might he have to accept in the meantime and despise time on a tennis court i mean i i don't wish that for him i i i don't wish to tell him what to do either it's his life it's his career he can do whatever he likes with it if he's if he's if he's okay with that fine but but i i can't imagine that's great for your mental health to just keep going out there and having a terrible terrible time at something you were so good at for so many years so um i'm sure he'll figure it out but what's best to do for himself but but that was a pretty yeah pretty upsetting night really do you think we'll see him again in 2026 yeah i do i do oh sorry this year um that's a good question i'm not i'm not convinced about that actually no i'm i'm not convinced we will um i think what he will want to try to do is get right, if he possibly can, for Australia.

19:20David Law: And that might mean taking time off again. The problem is how then do you build up some fitness, some match fitness? I know that's really tough, but the bigger point is there's something that's going on that's making his body react in the matches and get overwhelmed. Maybe he's just got to take the time to try and find out what that is, but why isn't he already? if there's a solution out there. That would be my concern. So I'm not convinced he'll play again because I think he might struggle to get motivated.

19:55Matt Roberts: Well, he hasn't played the ATP finals for, certainly didn't play last year. I think maybe it's even been a couple of years that he's qualified and not played. So I know he does love to play in China and that's a big one for sponsors, isn't it? I'm sure, you know, there are pressures.

20:13Catherine Whitaker: Yes, and last year he played Athens, didn't he? Instead of the ATP finals, he's relocated to Athens.

20:23Matt Roberts: It's his home tournament, essentially.

20:25Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, so it's possible we might see him, but I wouldn't be confident of that.

20:31Matt Roberts: Yeah. Will we see him here again?

20:33Catherine Whitaker: If I had to say now, I would say yes, because I still think, as David said, the goal probably remains the same. Maybe the route there is a little bit different, but I still think he might want a moment of knowing it's his last match at all the slams, if possible. So I would say yes, but not with much confidence.

21:02Matt Roberts: It was tough tonight. It was sad. It was.

21:03Catherine Whitaker: It was really sad.

21:04Matt Roberts: It was really sad to see that. I was braced for elongated drama, to quote David. I was braced for tonight to be sensory overload, but I wasn't braced for that.

21:19David Law: No, that wasn't elongated drama. That was elongated suffering.

21:27Matt Roberts: And on that note, that's it for part one. And we'll be back in part two to talk about the rest of day one. And we'll look ahead to day two as well.

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23:58Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. Just before we get on to the other results that we've had today on day one of the US Open here in New York, where it is 12 minutes before 1am and Venus Williams and Sophia Kennan have just completed the first set of their match on the Arthur Ashe Stadium, where there is still a sprinkling of fans in the stands. But as you can imagine, most people have left. I'm sure most of the TV audience in the US, certainly elsewhere too. I know, you know, it's a global sport and I'm sure people in Australia are thrilled at the time of day that this match is happening.

24:39Matt Roberts: But this is an all-American match. Venus Williams has been given a wild card here on the basis of her appeal and how box office she is. and here is absolutely nobody having the chance to watch her and her and Sofia Kennan as athletes being put through a quite ridiculous experience of starting a competitive major tennis match after midnight. And, okay, Novak Djokovic played a long match. Long matches happen at tennis tournaments a lot. That was not an unusual situation. That was not an unpredictable situation. and here we are again. Here we are again with the sport in a completely preventable nonsense situation, David.

25:31David Law: They've just put up a graphic on ESPN saying that the two players, Venus Williams and Sophia Kenyon, took to the court later than any player ever has at the US Open.

25:44Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, five minutes later than Sabalenka,

25:46David Law: um alexandrever a couple of years ago so it's a record and it's not a record to be proud of at all um it's and and it it just feels exacerbated by the fact that it is the great venus williams being put through this ignominy really of of stepping out there and and she should be if she's gonna have a wild card if this is gonna happen and i i think there are there are arguments to say well maybe maybe you don't give her a wild card she's lost the first set 6-2 here maybe it'll the second set will be more competitive but if if she's going to be given an Arthur Ashe Stadium court slot you've got to give it the best chance of being played at a time that people and a lot of people who will have wanted to come for her I know there's a lot of people who wanted to come for Novak Djokovic as well but Venus Williams is a huge draw and when she's on the order of play people people buy tickets and want to come and a lot of people cannot be here at this time of night um totally understandably i mean you know maybe the west coast is perhaps just getting a bid in around about 10 15 at night but i mean this is a bad situation for and as you say entirely predictable because matches are getting longer we know that yeah the simplest thing to do

27:15Catherine Whitaker: would be to have a rule about not having a best of three women's match starting after a best of five men's match at night. By the way, we may well be having this conversation again tomorrow because that is the order again tomorrow. That would be the simplest, like, avoiding a crazy late walkout for players. But I don't know. I still think slams need an overhaul and a restructuring to reflect the way modern tennis is played and how long it goes on. The Arthrash Stadium courts are empty today for three hours in the middle of the day, intentionally blank, so that they can have a night session and a staging of the night session, which is amazing and is a cool thing.

28:06Catherine Whitaker: But so often we pay the price with these crazy late finishes and fans not even in the stadium at the end of the session and players. I mean, Venus Williams must have been stretching for about four hours today. Every time they cut to the gym, it was Venus stretching. Players being put through that, people working at the tournament. And, you know, it's we've said it all before, but it's it's staggering to me that it just it just keeps happening and no one does anything about it.

28:38Matt Roberts: Can you imagine just imagine a world where women play best of five and men played best of three? Men just wouldn't it just wouldn't happen that men were scheduled after that. Men would they just wouldn't stand for it. The world wouldn't stand for it for men to be shafted in that way by women's tennis. Like if it ever happened, it would stop happening immediately. And yet here we are. And as Matt says, might be here again tomorrow. Can't wait, folks. Other things that have happened today. Look, we we talked about this yesterday in terms of an order of play today. Well, look, we've obviously had this huge story, but in terms of what the order of play looked like on paper today, it was a soft launch for the tournament, for sure.

29:25Matt Roberts: There is far more eye-catching stuff on the schedule for tomorrow. And look, tennis can surprise you. Stories and drama can come out of unexpected places. And we've had a bit of that today, but none of it, Djokovic aside, clearly involving the bigger names. Daniel Medvedev against Ugo Gaston. I think a lot of people, including me, thought that might be fun and there might be some drama and maybe a bit of nonsense. And actually, it was a pretty straightforward victory for Daniel Medvedev.

29:55David Law: Yeah, I didn't see all of it. But from what the commentators were saying, it was entertaining. There were some good rallies. It didn't last very long, though. It's very straightforward and straight sets. And when they did the handshake at the end, you know, I mean, Medvedev towering above Gaston, playing clean today, clean tennis. And if he plays clean tennis, Gaston's got no chance, really, and that's kind of what happened. But, you know, there were sort of some epics that I will remember today for, because they sort of became meaty and spicy, and we had fun. We actually had a lot of fun watching them.

30:38David Law: But as you say, in terms of things that you could hang your hat on and sell as the sport or put up in lights as a headline, it was shown really by the fact that we got to about 8 or 9 o 'clock at night and that we'd only had two press conferences in the main room with Tommy Paul and Jessica Pigula because there just weren't the stars on the schedule having meaningful matches really. He was being a bit gross, Medvedev? Yes, he was being very gross. I say clean. His tennis was clean. I mean, I thought it was gross. He was chewing gum virtually the whole time in the match. Which is new for him, I think.

31:18David Law: And he said, I've got a bit of a dry mouth and I've seen the baseball players do it. And he got a few laughs from that. But when the camera panned to his court chair and after each stick of gum that he chewed, He took it out and he stuck it down on his chair and he sort of lined them all up in a sort of four-by-four box. And I did look at that and think, that is a bit gross, Daniel. I'd love you, but please stick them in the bin.

31:53Matt Roberts: Yeah, that is absolutely rank. That plus the Djokovic puke slow-mo. Tonight has been rancid. absolutely gross uh in terms of the the fun david that you described coming from some unexpected places uh farrier against brooksby on court 17 i think this one which is a a great like mini amphitheater style court sort of right in the corner of the grounds if you if you come to the billy jing king national tennis center it's yeah it it it's a great cauldron quite often seems to create good matches they they schedule this sort of like you know indie match there uh and it delivered 6-3 7-6 4-6 1-6 6-2 farrier with the was it fingers in the ear celebration or fingers to

32:49David Law: the year in the year basically you know farrier he's um he likes an argument he's quite happy to get into it with opponents, with umpires, with crowds. And the crowds on Brooksby's side, the American locals, they were giving it to him because, you know, for a start they were trying to cheer for their guy but some maybe take it a little bit too far. And Ferrier didn't like it, so he gives them some back. He eventually gets over the line. Poor old Jenson Brooksby's kind of physically spent at the end. Nice handshake between the two of them, and then immediately Furrier just puts his two index fingers in his ears.

33:33David Law: Then he goes and shakes hands, then he goes back into the centre of the court and he does it again. And he was just, he was really trying to sort of troll the crowd that were giving him a hard time. But he has had a hell of a year. All the other three Grand Slams he's qualified successfully for, he's halved his ranking in nine months from 150 to 70, and now he could play Carlos Alcraz in the second round. And I think he's a hell of a player. I really do think he's talented. And I don't think you'll fear the occasion or the opponent if it ends up happening.

34:08Catherine Whitaker: Yes, he's the third Portuguese man, I believe, to win a match at every slam. There's only been three of them who've done it. Sousa and Nuno Borges. and yet he's significantly younger at the time that he's completed that. He's sort of the Portuguese player who's had this level of success, but at a younger age where you feel like, okay, maybe you can build on it and keep going and do the most in the sport that a Portuguese man has done so far. So it's kind of interesting times for them. And yes, look, Alcaraz has got around one match to win first, And that's by no means guaranteed, given we haven't seen him in four months.

34:54Catherine Whitaker: But I do think Farrier waiting there in the second round is tricky as well, because he's just so much tough at the moment. Yeah, that's, yeah, tough.

35:10Matt Roberts: Tough, whatever, potentially tough, whatever version of Alcaraz we end up getting.

35:15Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and I also think, this is again coming on to Alcaraz, But I also think there's a world where Alcarez comes out looking really good in his first match. He's just happy to be back and he's vibing. And then sometimes it can be the second match where the rust sets in and you realise you haven't actually played in a while. I think he also might, the opposite might happen. He might be really nervous in the first match. But just because he might play well in the first match doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to win the tournament. That he's back and he's going to win the tournament. He's going to play like that every round.

35:48David Law: Which is, it'd be so easy for us to sit in here in 24 hours' time thinking, OK, Alcruz is going to win the USA. Literally one forehand winner, and we'll probably be thinking that.

36:01Matt Roberts: Jaume Munar and Terence Atman. Boy, was the drama here. Matt, talk us through, well, Munar's eventual victory, 7-5 in the 5th, but the journey of Terence Atman over the course of the match. Yeah, this one definitely wins my award for, wasn't even on my radar really and then suddenly it's all I can think about and watch for a little bit.

36:31David Law: We had a great half an hour, didn't we, with the fifth set of this and the fifth set of Brooksby and Furrier. Yeah, exactly. And this one was chaos really. in the in the words of James Hansen in The Athletic Atman was serving up 7-6, 6-3, 1-love against Jaume Munar when he suddenly froze gripping his upper right leg and lumbering about the baseline like he was doing a physical comedy performance and that's because he suddenly started cramping

37:05Catherine Whitaker: and first of all it was his leg and then it was various other parts of his body. At one stage, his hand, he actually had to, he's left-handed at man. He actually had to put his racket in his right hand and do an underarm serve with his right hand, his wrong hand, an underarm serve. That's how badly he was affected by the cramps. And yeah, the middle of the portion of this match, he couldn't move, he couldn't hit. He was trying everything, sometimes hitting out, sometimes drop shots, you know, everything just to try and get through games and points. But his body was cramping badly and his two sets to love lead just got chipped away at by Munar.

37:50Catherine Whitaker: And I say chipped, chippy Munar. I mean, he, you know, we've got Jaim Farrier, who's a bit spiky, Jaume Munar, who's a bit spiky, playing at the same time. and Munar was constantly going at the umpire about the fact that he thought Atman was taking too long and getting treatment and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And it all kind of came to a head actually at the start of the fifth set with Munar having levelled it at two sets all and Atman called the trainer again for treatment on his legs. But during the evaluation, the trainer declined to treat him. and said, I can't treat that, it's cramp.

38:34Matt Roberts: Because the rules are you can't receive treatment for, you can't receive a medical timeout for cramp because it's viewed by the sports rules as a symptom of loss of conditioning. And we can talk about that in a moment, but that is why you can't receive a medical timeout. You can receive like a leg rub three times. Yeah, three times, yeah. During a changeover, so during a pause in play anyway. So that's maximum 60 seconds and a maximum of three times over the course of the match.

39:04Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. And yeah, Atman said it's pain, not cramp. And yet the trainer declined to treat him. And Atman said, stop acting stupid and treat me. I have pain. And then the trainer left and he asked the trainer's name. It was a right scene.

39:26Matt Roberts: As we learned during the Australian Open semifinal involving Carlos Alcaraz and Alexander Verov and Alcaraz in quite a similar position, albeit coming through and ending up winning that match and going on to win the title. there is some softness or greyness in the way the rules are written about cramp and in the sort of in in the the well first and foremost the the physio has to take what the player says at face value I believe you know you had Alcaraz and we don't we don't know what for sure what alcohol was experiencing in australia it looked a lot like cramp my my unprofessional medical opinion is that that was cramp but he said he just said to the physio i i've pain in pain in my leg muscle help me you know you you're not the doctor you don't have to say i've i've got cramp that and and the the physio has to take that at face value i believe and and at the very least do an assessment the the other thing i believe that we learned during that same match was that there is some leeway for heat and for cramp being a symptom of heat stress and that again it might have come into play in the specifically in that alcaraz match so it's not it's not quite a hard and fast rule but it is a rule that is invoked and features a lot in the sport um and in a sport which is getting longer and more grueling and being played in a world which is getting hotter and more brutal in terms of its conditions and i mean even personally i think regardless of that cramp Cramp can be symptomatic of a loss of conditioning, but it's very rarely, it's often utterly unrelated to that.

41:30Matt Roberts: I think it's archaic nonsense, really, to treat cramp as a loss and conditioning. And nobody wants to see a match end or be diminished for a medical situation which could be easily aided.

41:46David Law: Yeah, it's ridiculous. If you, I mean, if you've got cramp, you've got pain. or your legs locking up why can't that be released with some treatment i mean i know it can with you can have a rub and whatnot but why why is this distinct this distinction now is is nonsense and outdated and and to me it is the you can't coach your player from the sidelines of 2026 You know, that happened in 2019 or whatever it was, 2018, with Patrick Morotoglu and Serena Williams. Eventually they changed that rule. This rule's got to go. You'll get the players from the past banging on about condition and all this sort of thing.

42:34David Law: Sorry. Yeah, there is definitely a sort of very out-of-date

42:39Matt Roberts: and sort of toxic masculine strain of commentary that you hear in the sport about, you know, you've just got to tough it out. And if you can't, that sucks for you. But that's sport, which, yeah, I think that's a load of waft. But you're right, David. If the rule does change, we've got to brace ourselves for a lot of that.

43:04David Law: I don't care. And my view is I think you've got to limit how many medical timeouts you get the same way as you do for anything else. but a physio coming on and rubbing somebody's legs during the sit-down that they're allowed to have. They're allowed to have a sit-down and have a drink and you can't have it. Let them rub their bloody legs for as long as they need. By the way, it's funny you mention coaching because that also happened in this match. Munar was annoyed that Atman was getting the type of coaching that you're not allowed to get. Munar is very eggy, isn't he? He also, in this match, talked about a loss that he had in 2018 to Diego Schwarzman because of cramping.

43:46David Law: He had all the receipts. Munar's a receipts guy. I do like that about him. I mean, it would wind me up if I was his opponent. The handshake was funny because Munar sort of came to the net very slowly as if he was waiting to see what Atman might do when they got there. and Atman never took his eyes off him until the moment of hand contact when he completely did the sort of head turn Ostopenko style and walked off. It was great.

44:20Matt Roberts: Okay, that's it for men's results from today. On to the women's results. Nothing massive happening in the women's today. Certainly nothing Djokovic-sized. Jessica Begula opened the Arthrashe Stadium first match of the day at midday earlier on today. Comfortable for her against Elena Gabriela Rusa, 6 '3", 6 '2". She said in her on-court interview that she was incredibly nervous and always is before Grand Slam first rounds, particularly here at the US Open. And she's the US number one, which is a big deal and I think something she's very proud of. But impressive given all of that.

45:02Catherine Whitaker: yes and I think those nerves came out at the start of the match and failing to take her chances she had eight break points early on here and just could not convert and then actually had to save a break point herself before eventually she did manage to take one and once she did it was like you know pressure valve released and she was pretty comfortable from that point on she actually went out to the practice court afterwards and hit some serves and there were she was saying that she felt like she was serving a lot better at the start of the season and it was actually you know as well as she did in Cincinnati she didn't feel like she was serving all that well and I do think I do think that's an underrated shot when it's when it's working the Jessica Pagula serve it's not the biggest but she's quite accurate with it and sets up her game well and she's going to need that if well if she's going to make the kind she's going to do the kind of things that I predicted her to do and win this tournament.

46:00She better start serving well. So, yeah, I think interesting that she went out to the practice court

46:06Catherine Whitaker: and probably also, like, because of the rhythm of her tournament now where she's got a couple of days off, they were saying that it might be better to actually, like, do some serving practice on the day you've played a match and then you maybe don't need to do it on another day and she can spread out her practice now. So, yeah, like a nice start for Pagula.

46:27David Law: yeah um quite an interesting press comment she had as as well because um she was asked whether she would rather be a grand slam champion win a win a major or become world number one and she said well given where the rankings are at the moment if i won a major then i would be number one so then i could be both but she she did say that when she was a a young girl sort of seven or eight years of age she said she didn't dream of winning Wimbledon or the US Open or any anything like that she dreamed of being world number one and she said the reason was because wouldn't it be the best thing to just be the best at something out of everyone um that was her sort of childlike view of things I don't think she necessarily understood the the importance of the majors at that time but she says that has stayed with me that that memory and and I could kind of love to fulfill that but But obviously she'd love to win a major.

47:24Matt Roberts: Which would you choose if you could only have one?

47:27Catherine Whitaker: Major.

47:28Matt Roberts: Yeah, same.

47:29David Law: Yeah, I'd be the same. For instance, I would rather be Marin Cilic in just about every way than Marcella Ria.

47:39Matt Roberts: Having had personal experience of them both. Hmm.

47:45Matt Roberts: Yes. It's maybe an unfair debate because there is such stigma and potentially very unfair stigma, I don't know, around the number ones that don't have a slam, right? It's like, oh. Yeah. You know, did the ranking system mess up? Yeah. Should it be possible to reach number one without winning a major?

48:12David Law: I am, I'm afraid, a little bit in that camp. I don't take you completely seriously if you haven't won a major.

48:18Matt Roberts: That is how bad David's personal experience of Marcelo Rios is. Everyone. And we probably should say the world number one scenarios are quite interesting at this tournament. We haven't really talked about them that much.

48:32David Law: Particularly because the one who's most likely to get there can barely walk. Exactly, in Elena Rabatkinner. She can guarantee it by reaching the semifinals. It doesn't matter what anyone else does. If Rabatkinner reaches the semifinals, she will be the number one.

48:48Catherine Whitaker: But that seems a very long way off for someone who can barely walk. And we've seen her on the practice court and is clearly still struggling. But Sabalenka can retain it. And then Pagulo and Goff can also get it. So there is quite a race on for that. And honestly, that does feel right to me that there's a race on for WTA number one. Like I'm finding it quite hard to know right now who is the best player in the world. It does feel like there's a group of them who are all jostling.

49:21David Law: Just from a US Open perspective, it would take quite a sequence of events for Goff or Pagula to get to world number one. But obviously if they did win, either one of them won the US Open, they would be in prime position to do it at some point soon. Well, Goff and Pagula can reach number one if they win the title and Rabatkin doesn't reach the semis.

49:41Matt Roberts: Right. And I don't think Rabakina is reaching the semis. I mean, she could barely walk a few days ago. It would be shocking if she reached the semis, I think. So feels more possible once you take Rabakina potentially out of the equation. I think, yeah, it's fun. It's really fun to have that storyline on the go. Comfortable wins for Alina Svitolina today over Solana Sierra. Good news for my credibility, if you listened to yesterday's preview show. Yeah, you nailed that one, Catherine. Yeah, one and two for Svitolina. Marta Kostjik, 6-4, 6-1 over Storm Hunter. Karolina Pliskova saved a match point today to win 6-3 in the third over Hannah van der Winkle.

50:32Barbora Krojcikova, though, is out. This is probably the shock of the day on the women's side, beaten by Camilla Rakimova, 7-6, 6-2. It's a huge boost for Sabalenka because we had all circled this scheduled meeting with two-time Grand Sam champion Krejcikova in the third round as a massive problem for an out-of-form Sabalenka.

50:56Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, hands up. Misread the volcanic activity there. I was thinking, you know, the form Krejcikova was in Wimbledon with a decent run there. and then particularly after Wimbledon, she played a lot of matches, she did a lot of winning. I thought she had a bit of a shot here. She didn't actually perform very well on the US hard court. She had round one losses, sorry, the North American hard court. She had round one losses in Canada and Cincinnati and just had no form today, you know, just racked up a lot of errors. And even when Craig Chicova loses the first set, I don't usually panic for her that much.

51:42Catherine Whitaker: You know, we had a Q &A show recently where we talked about her as a bit of a diesel, someone who has a lot of experience of losing an opening set, getting back into it and going on to win. Her record shows that. And she went up a break in the second set. And you thought, OK, right, she's starting to get going, but not a good day for her. And, you know, Rakimova is a good player. She's beaten Jasmine Paolini in early stage of a slam when Paolini was the former finalist at Wimbledon and took advantage and definitely was the better player. And yes, it feels like a boost for Sabalenka. I mean, she's actually got a good record against Craig Chicova, has Sabalenka, but I don't know.

52:26I still feel like a full firing Craig Chicova

52:28Catherine Whitaker: is not someone you want to see in your draw, no matter your record against her. and yeah it's it's a curious season she's had Craig Chicova like a lot of I think three first round exits at slams but then as I said that period around Wimbledon either side of it where she was pretty dangerous and talking quite a big game yeah shame to say a go actually I think she's a great presence in draws me too yeah absolutely she's something a bit different isn't she So Paolini, incidentally, that you mentioned, she was a winner today. Three sets for her. She hasn't played since Wimbledon. Had a bit of an injury off the back of the grass court season.

53:07So good to see Paolini get back over the line. And last shout out from day one goes to Donna Vekic for winning her match 6-2, 4-6, 6-3 against Talia Gibson. I don't think she had won a match since she won Queen's before Wimbledon, Donna Vekic. So that's pretty big for her. But also shout out to Pam, Pam Shriver, who has coached Donna Vekic personally, but now works with Donna Vekic as part of the Yonex Mindset programme. Donna Vekic is a Yonex player. And Pam left Rhode Island this morning where we all were last night for the inductions at the International Tennis Hall of Fame. she left Rhode Island this morning at 6am and managed to get to the Billie Jean King National Tennis Centre for 9am 9am she was trying to get there for the start of play and she actually got there two hours early and having had the I-95 experience that we all had today I cannot tell you how in awe of Pam I am for doing that

54:14Matt Roberts: because well first and foremost there was no way we were getting out of bed at 5.30am this morning and second of all we definitely make didn't make as good time as Pam yeah no I mean Pam Pam left the after party with us and was out of bed several hours earlier and um yeah that's a that's a heck of a win for Vekic and I'm sure looking over and seeing Pam in her corner was was helpful for her because yeah that was a that was a win for the mindset as well because she was up a set and two breaks

54:47Catherine Whitaker: and lost five games in a row to lose the second set, did Vekic and had to reset and recover and win in three. So, yeah, big for Vekic, big for Pan. Love to see it.

55:00Matt Roberts: Close to six hours it took us to get from Rhode Island to Manhattan today.

55:06David Law: Pretty standard five-set match.

55:09Matt Roberts: Very tennis of us. Okay, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to preview day two of the US Open. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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56:25Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's US Open. Let's look ahead to what we have tomorrow on day two of the tournament. We have Arthrasch Stadium opening at midday with Irina Sabalenka against Camilla Osorio then second on in the day session in the heat of the day I think it is going to be a little bit hotter tomorrow and certainly still humid as well the long-awaited return of the defending champion after four and a half months on the sidelines with a wrist injury Carlos Alcaraz returns against Roman Sifuelin. Can I have a prediction?

57:06David Law: I think Al Kraus will shine and win, a little bit like you were saying, Matt. I think of, I know it was a couple of rounds later, but I think of Roger Federer against Thomas Burdick that day in the Australian Open, when he just suddenly played out of his mind. And I think sometimes when you haven't done something for a long time, you might forget all your bad habits and just everything just rolls. But then I think it might get stickier against Ferrier in the second round. But Sir Fulian's good, as we know.

57:42Matt Roberts: Yeah, we've seen him. I mean, Wimbledon, he has a particularly good record, but he had that dramatic match with Kasper Rude at the French Open this year. Am I misremembering that? No, you're very much remembering it. I'd forgotten it, yes. Which he really should have won. I was going to say, I'm not sure that is necessarily the example of him being good, though.

58:09Matt Roberts: It was an example of something.

58:10David Law: Catherine's the one who throws shade at Gaspar Rude. Yeah, but Rude was like a ghost of a man. Saffirin should have won it. Yes. But he played good tennis against a good player at a Grand Slam on a big stage. That wasn't Wimbledon. That wasn't Wimbledon is the point I'm making. He just didn't play it at the end of the match when it is the most crucial. There you go. Okay, night session on Ash tomorrow starts with Ben Shelton against Talon Greekspore to follow a women's match, Naomi Osaka, against Anastasia Zakharova. That's tough for Shelton, Greekspore. That's a really tough first round draw.

58:51David Law: It is because Greekspore is a shot maker. I think he will probably be able to convince himself to go out there with that much to lose, and that probably makes him a bit more dangerous, likes the crowd. But I also think Ben Shelton is going to elevate even his own very high level in this environment. If he can stay fit, well, I've said, I think he's going to win this tournament. So I think he's going to go roaring through. Okay. not just through, but roaring through, says David. I'm expecting you to think similarly about your guy, Artifis, opening Armstrong tomorrow against Stefanos Sitsapas? Rather more concerned about that one, got to be honest, because Fis does not have a record here at this tournament of any great shakes.

59:40David Law: I've seen him lose in the second round, I think, certainly once to Gabriel Diallo. Seen him lose to Matteo Arnaldi here as well on court 17. I mean, look, Fese is a very different player now. But when you've not been beyond the second round of the tournament and you're playing a guy who's reached two Grand Slam finals before in Stefanos Tsitsipas, I don't think you can afford to get too confident. He needs to come out and put in a really professional performance. Yes, I think he'll win. OK, so he has to win, David. I think this is protecting your guy. Well, he does have to win. If he loses this, I think this is a good draw.

1:00:25I know it's Sitsapas, I know it's a name, but come on. Sitsapas is a big six. Even in his pomp, Sitsapas, and he's so far from that now, it's sad, but that is the fact. Even in his pomp, Sitsapas was poor here.

1:00:41David Law: No, he's never played well here. I do agree with you. but I don't think you can take the excellent player out of him completely when he's still only, what, 27? I mean, he's still... He's not an old man. He seems fully fit. I know he's played terribly for a long time, really, and way below his ability levels, but I'd still less like to have him as an opponent than many, many others. if I was a top seed. Second on Armstrong tomorrow, Aisling Kruger against Mats Faye, Amanda Anisimova. David's chance to come back at me. Anisimova should win. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. You know, she's a big ball striker, Kruger, but generally I think Anisimova is better at that game style.

1:01:35Kruger's really tall, isn't she? She is, yeah. She's very tall. On her best day, she's got a good serve.

1:01:41Catherine Whitaker: But yeah, look, I think Anisimova will be trying to win in like a stress-free manner. No memes. That would definitely be a success. A meme-free day is what Anisimova wants. Night session on Armstrong tomorrow. Wang Ji-Yu are taking on the eighth seed, former champion Yigish Fiontek. And then it's an all-American clash between Martin Dam, who, is this a rebrand? He was Martin Dam Jr., son of, well, I'll shock you here, martin dam senior or the original martin dam that david knew from his atp days uh well i assume this isn't a martin dam comeback and this is the artist formerly known as martin dam junior who's just he wants to be his own guy now maybe somebody just forgot the junior bit yeah maybe anyway i'll assume that this is the son martin dam taking on francis tiafo who I'm a bit worried about Tiafoe's fitness and the the hip injury that he was carrying in the Cincinnati final okay it wasn't he wasn't hampered to the point of you know being totally debilitated but he wasn't 100 % and he also didn't didn't reassure that he was totally fit in his pre-tournament press conference he was bigging himself up and saying I'll be ready I'll be ready by Monday but But that was a way of not answering the question, are you fit now?

1:03:09Are you ready now? So, I don't know. I think we'll keep a close eye on that and see how Francis Tiafoe is doing. Grandstand tomorrow opens with Karolina Mukova. Then we have some matches to be resumed because it started raining in New York this evening and a lot of matches that were going on on the outside courts got suspended. There was actually a very bizarre situation where Armstrong, the second court, despite it having a roof, they didn't close the roof quickly enough. So the court malfunctioned, apparently. Oh, really? So the court got rained on massively and there was a huge delay while that rain had to be mopped up by children with towels, which is the very sophisticated method that tennis has of dealing with water on the court.

1:04:01And so, yeah, very weird. And then Bublik Wolf finished just before Djokovic had finished. And Venus and Kennan went out to Armstrong to to start playing on it. But just as they got there, Djokovic finished and they were asked whether they'd like to go back to Ash and play on Ash. And they said yes.

1:04:24Catherine Whitaker: So there was this whole confusion this evening about what court Kennan and Venus are actually going to be starting on. and that confusion probably wouldn't have happened had the roof not malfunctioned and Bublick Wolf finished an hour earlier. I'm sure Venus and Kenyon probably would have got on earlier. It's just a series of unfortunate events tonight. So that means that on grandstand tomorrow, after the Mook of a Kraus match, we then have Emma Navarro against Lois Boisson to finish. It was a really nice looking match, actually. We watched some of that earlier. Navarro leading by Setna Breik over Boisson.

1:05:03Then we have Taylor Townsend against Mike Wilinska. Really looking forward to that on grandstand tomorrow. In fact, whole schedule tomorrow on grandstand is great because that is followed by Matteo Berrettini against Dan Rorinka. The winner to play Mariano Navone, not Novak Djokovic. And then finally on grandstand, I expect a late finish over on there. I have the floodlights on for sure. Félix Auger, Eliassime, the third seed, taking on Rinki Hijikata. Court 17 tomorrow, as I said, a great place to watch tennis. Jung Chin Wen opens against Christina Lutova, the 16-year-old Memphis champion. And Jung Chin Wen, the Olympic gold medalist who has been out with injury for a long time.

1:05:48Her ranking has dropped way off and she had to come through qualifying here. And she did that in impressive fashion. So, showing against Lutova, Lutova, a very interesting first round. Then we have Alex Mickelson against Sinner. Not that one to finish. Francisco Sinner. They're a set deep in that match that was suspended today. Then we have Brandon Nakashima against Sebastian Byers. Now, Nakashima is a big beneficiary of Novak Djokovic going out. He's now kind of... It's now his section. It's his section now to get to the quarters, you'd have to say. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how he responds to that opportunity, quite frankly.

1:06:32Staying on court 17 following Nakashima is Clara Townsend against Sloane Stephens, who was doing the coin toss on Arthur Ashe this evening, which is very bizarre. She's in the draw. That was a surprise to me. In the tournament, Sloane Stephens, I believe it was for her foundation. Yeah, which is lovely. Which is very nice, but, yeah, it was just a surprise. And finally on 17 tomorrow, a really tough first round for Lerner Tien, the American, against Nuno Borges, the Portuguese player. Looking forward to that match. Yeah, it's a really stylish match, that one. There are other great matches all over the shop.

1:07:11Jakub Menchik is playing on court five, as is, first up tomorrow, Sara Belek, the very impressive young Czech player. She's a lefty. She had a brilliant run in Cincinnati just a couple of weeks ago, really announced herself onto the scene. She beat Irina Sabalenka, of course. She played a great match against Madison Keys. She's she's a heck of a player. She's one to watch for sure. And she's somebody that we wanted to get to know a little bit more. And that is why we requested her for our latest edition of Tennis Podcast Meets, which is our series for friends of the tennis podcast. It's part of our bonus content collection for friends, where on the eve of every slam, we interview a bunch of players.

1:07:58We get to know them, try and tell their stories. And Sarah Bailik is one of those that David has been speaking to for this edition of the Tennis Podcast Meets, which is up now for friends of the Tennis Podcast. Who else have you spoken to, David?

1:08:12David Law: I spoke to Tatiana Maria. I had a lovely 10 minutes with her. She is such great company. She's so open and punchy and revealing. She's just a great interviewee, so I highly recommend you listening to that, particularly giving insights into the slightly unusual game style that she has, how it came about and how she sort of manages it day to day, you know, with practice sessions and all that kind of thing, and also talks about how much her daughter wants to be a tennis player when she grows up. so it was fascinating um and then um after after the the two player interviews i also while we were over there in the international tennis hall of fame um i spoke to one of the inductees steve flink who is uh a great friend of ours he's a wonderful writer and author of tennis books some of the best tennis books that the sport has known and that includes one that he's he's just published actually called the immortals of american tennis and so we had a chat about that we spoke about his his great friend mary carillo um a fellow inductee now of course and uh yeah just spoke about international tennis hall of fame life because um it was our first time and and he's uh he's the man who kind of helped open the doors for us to get into the museum on the day yesterday.

1:09:39David Law: Literally, quite literally. He sort of smuggled us in, which is great. So I hope you enjoy all of that. Yeah, it's a great show. It's a lovely listen. It is up now for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. And if you'd like to become a friend of the pod, then the link to do that is in our show notes. You get access to all of our bonus content. There's tons of it. You get access to The Barge, our community platform for talking about tennis. You get access to our brilliant writer, Hannah, all of her work. You get significantly fewer ads. and your listening experience as well. That is all for Friends of Tennis Podcast.

1:10:11Link to subscribe is in our show notes. Last bit of business for today is to tell you more about Leo's bonnet. Leo is our mascot for the US Open. He's owned by Cara. And Cara says that Leo's bonnet is in tribute to my grandmother, who was a lifelong tennis lover and an impassioned Jimmy Connors fan. like Leo she was a free spirit who loved life played the game well into her 80s played the game well into her 80s rather and occasionally brought a little Connor's fire to the court despite being quiet off the court seeing Leo in the bonnet just like hers sitting among the tennis balls reminds me that tennis is fun and that it's still okay to bark a bad line calls That's so lovely I can't get enough of Leo in the bonnet I'm going to pop that on our Instagram Folks, thank you Cara for that update Hello to our mascots Bodie, Maisie And Roger, hello to our top folks And executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff You're all legends And we're going to go to Matt for some shout outs We have Chris From Toronto Hello Chris Chris says like Chris Everett, Chris Eubanks and Chris Lewis.

1:11:27Matt Roberts: Very good. Helpful that, Chris. Got nothing to add, Chris.

1:11:31David Law: When it's 1.30 in the morning and Venus Williams is making a comeback. I love Toronto, as you know, and as I've declared many a time in this podcast, but I am hoping for some Connecticut or Rhode Island-based shout-outs so that we can use our new material that we've gathered in the last 24 hours. But I've been to Toronto for the tournament there. I went to Montreal as well. I love both cities. Toronto's great. Thank you, Chris. Is Toronto the one where you dangled off a building? I did, off the CN Tower. Oh, yeah. I learnt a lot about myself that day, David. None of it good. I am not as cool and gnarly as I like to think I am.

1:12:17And finally, we have Catherine Salter. Hello, Catherine. Hi, Catherine. Who is from East Sussex. Oh, what a place. What a name. And Catherine says, I'd much prefer to be associated with our very own Catherine, even though it's a different spelling, than Catherine Jordan, who she's come up with, an American top ten player from the 1980s. I remember her well. So are we talking Catherine with a K here? Yes, a K and a Y.

1:12:48David Law: Cathy Jordan, who I think I saw beat Chrissie Evers once, maybe even at Wimbledon. Yes, she was a player from my childhood. A Catherine known as a Cathy, which is, I mean, not professional. In adulthood, no one calls me Cathy, but as a kid. And I fear I've made it sound there like, oh, Catherine's really got something against Catherine Jordan.

1:13:15Catherine Whitaker: That is not, I don't think, what she was saying. She's just saying she wants to be associated with you, Catherine.

1:13:22David Law: Yeah, and it was 1983, when I was just nine years old, that I remember watching Cathy Jordan beat Chris Evert in the third round of Wimbledon. It's all up there.

1:13:36David Law: And Wikipedia as a backup. Catherine, thank you for giving us an opportunity for David to dig into his mind palace. uh katherine and chris thank you very much for being friends of the tennis podcast we are part of the athletic podcast network this is day one of 15 folks and we're going to be daily at the end of every single i'm saying day a lot every single night mix it up it'll be the night every it definitely will be the night we'll be here every single night of the tournament bringing you all the news, all the match results, or all the important ones anyway, and we'll be looking ahead to the next day's play as well.

1:14:18So do join us for that. Thank you for listening to this one. We'll see you and speak to you then.

1:14:40Thank you.

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1:16:38Here's the wild part. Record yourself for just 15 seconds, and HeyGen builds an AI avatar that makes professional videos for you on demand, so you can post everywhere your audience is, as yourself, without filming every time. Your first three videos are free at heygen.com slash pod. That's H-E-Y-G-E-N dot com slash P-O-D.