US Open Day 11 - Anisimova buries double bagel demons

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1:36Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you from Flushing Meadows, New York on day 11 of the US Open. There are just four days to go of this thing and our semi-final lineups are now set. Let's start with the women's event and the incredible last four lineups that we'll be seeing here tomorrow night for women's semi-finals under the lights on Ash. It'll be Jessica Begula against Irina Sabalenka. We knew that already. That match was set up yesterday and it will be Naomi Osaka against Amanda Anisimova or David versus Matt.

2:15David Law: We did have a little bit of a chat about the potential for this on the way in on the subway, didn't we, Matt? And here we are. And we decided it would be extremely fun if it happened. Yeah. A collision of podcast bits.

2:31Matt Roberts: Have we ever had two bits on the go at the same time in opposition? like Nicholas Jarry has never played Amanda Anisimova

2:40David Law: I don't think of such stakes we've probably had a Jarry feast at some point or another but I don't even know if that has happened

2:49Matt Roberts: Matt has secretly supported Art of Feast in said matches maybe not even secretly

2:53David Law: but no we've never had anything quite like this no and to be fair Nicholas Jarry is more of a bit and Amanda Anisimova is more of just a thing

3:03Matt Roberts: yeah more of your entire personality I wonder how she'd take that.

3:07David Law: You're just a bit of a thing.

3:09Matt Roberts: Shall we start then with Amanda Anisimova, the incredible Amanda Anisimova, avenging her Wimbledon final defeat, her double bagel in the Wimbledon final to come back today in her next meeting with Iga Svjantek and beat her 6-4, 6-3. Matt Roberts, talk us through it. I'm pretty awestruck by what Amanda Nisimova did today. And I think everyone is, actually.

3:42Catherine Whitaker: You know, like 53 days had passed. Only 53 days since that double bagel, that chastening, harrowing experience in that Wimbledon final. And here she is at the next slam against the same opponent and she gets broken in the first game to go one love down. and I was clenched. I was so just like nervous for her and I think everyone in the stadium was as well. Yeah, you could feel it. Yeah, you could feel it. You could feel it because she'd had a game point and she hadn't taken it. And you do, you have the thoughts of, oh my goodness, is this going to happen again? Are we about to experience the same thing or something very similar?

4:32Catherine Whitaker: but then a very, very crucial thing happened, and she won the next game. On return, the first Iguysfiontech service game, and she broke, and then she held to love. And honestly, in that moment, I just thought, phew, like this is now a tennis match. This is no longer a kind of cruel psychological experiment. Like we are in this now. Like Amanda Onisimova is here, and that's what she said at the start of the tournament. I want to play her when I'm myself with my best tennis and I just thought, okay, finally we're going to be able to see that. And then from then on it was just, well, an absolutely extraordinary performance from Amanda Nissimovar, hitting the ball like we know she can, taking on the Svantec serve.

5:22Catherine Whitaker: Svantec did not have a good serving day. She's not had a particularly good serving tournament, to be honest, and that continued today and Anissimova really took advantage of it and she just became the best version of herself, Anissimova, taking over in rallies with her flat hits, doing all the things that I always thought would give her a chance in the matchup against Igor Fiontek that she just wasn't able to display in that Wimbledon final because of nerves and exhaustion and everything. And she was moving really, really well. There was a lot of points today where you really noticed the difference in Anissimova's movement this year.

5:59The forehand was fantastic.

6:02Matt Roberts: And the movement wide to the forehand. Those two things together were so strikingly improved today. Absolutely. Even from Wimbledon. And she kept it together in the biggest moment. She played great tennis.

6:17Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, that is now back-to-back slams where she's beaten Sabalenka and Sviontek. she is proving that her level is up there with the very, very best in the world. And we've talked all year, or I have anyway, but we have as a podcast about her improved resilience in matches. And I just think we're seeing that in a much, much bigger sense here. Her resilience to come back from that Wimbledon final defeat and her bravery to play the way she did today against the same opponent was absolutely remarkable. I think take away the fact that it's Amanda Nisimova and everything that we've got connected to her on this podcast, whoever that player is doing that today, coming back from that experience to give this performance, I think we would all just be in absolute awe and absolute wonder.

7:14Catherine Whitaker: And it's great for me that it's Nisimova. And yeah, I think it's a very, very special thing that we saw her do today.

7:20Matt Roberts: Yeah, I'm a bit obsessed with it, actually. I don't want to muscle in on your turf, Matt, but as you say, regardless of who this was, I'm obsessed with somebody coming back from what she experienced at Wimbledon in 53 days and doing what she did today. And we'll get into what she told us in the press conference about that journey during those 53 days. But words like inspiring and aspirational and kicked around far too much, but I found what she did today so inspiring. And like, yes, she's got this in-match resilience that we've never seen before, but she's clearly such a resilient human being.

8:06And that's what she's taking to the tennis matches now.

8:10Matt Roberts: And look, I sat next to Matt for the entirety of Anna Samova's victory over Sabalenka at Wimbledon in the semifinals. I sat next to Matt for the entirety of this match today, apart from an extremely poorly timed loo break, which I simply couldn't put off any longer. My bladder underestimated Amanda Anisimova, and I did just catch the match point. But, yeah, it was suboptimal timing, put it that way. But anyway, I experienced these matches with Matt, and I found the experience so different. like Wimbledon was exhilarating and dramatic, but it was anxiety-laden throughout. I had this constant feeling of being on a fairground ride and hanging on.

8:59Matt Roberts: Can she keep this up? Can she keep this up? Oh, my God, she's keeping this up. Is it going to be enough? Apart from sort of early stages of the opening set today, maybe a tiny wobble at the start of the second when she drops her, but at that point Matt had said to me, Anisimova, I don't want to say this too loud, but Anisimova has an incredible record from a set-up. So I already had this sort of deep-seated sense of confidence that Matt had instilled in me. 35 wins in a row, now 36 from a set-up. See, he's got the receipts. Can't argue with the stats. Apart from those early moments, I just had this sense of calm and confidence in her that, like, OK, Shontek wasn't bang on it today by any means and she's released a statement explaining that she's been managing some things and some pain in her foot.

9:53Matt Roberts: For sure, she served at 50 % today. Amanda Anisimova did what I quite often think that players should do more to Igor Shvantec's second serve. She stepped in on it and she punished it and she was doing that brilliantly. But I just had this sense of calm watching her of like, oh, she's just got the level. Like she's just such a good tennis player. She's so locked in. I don't doubt that she's going to keep this up, that she's going to keep her focus, that she's going to be able to maintain this. And this is enough. Her level is enough to beat Iga Shontex and Irina Sabalenkis. Not necessarily every time.

10:38Matt Roberts: It isn't for anyone. But she is right up there as one of the best players in the world as far as I'm concerned. And I think she is a serious contender for this title, which I know isn't a bold prediction for someone that's in the last four. Like she's minimum 25 % contender for this title, but I think she's more than that. I am such an Amanda Enesimova believer after today.

11:03David Law: Well, it was a bit of a difference maker today, wasn't it? I do remember on the eve of the tournament and in the weeks leading up to it, But I certainly remember I, and I believe all of us, said that we felt she was in the mix for this tournament and for Grand Slam tournaments to come because of her skill set. Her skill set is absolutely extraordinary. I can't really think of other players other than the very top couple. I think Rabakin has got a bit of it, Sambalenka has it, Shvantec has it, and Anissimova has it, of being able to hurt you from both sides equally and actually...

11:44Matt Roberts: I can't believe you didn't just take the opportunity to mention Osaka.

11:47David Law: Well, yeah, actually that is true. That's fair. But, you know, it's a very select group and actually backhand-wise it's no exaggeration to say Anissa Mervis has the best one of them all. Even the ones that are at the very top there. And, I mean, when she unleashed it today and it wasn't just good to look at and it wasn't just effective against a normal player. It was effective against the best mover in the world. You know, the person who has a great backhand of her own and was going toe-to-toe with it and then suddenly this winner is hit at extraordinary power and landing in the junction between baseline and sideline.

12:36David Law: But that was all still skill set. wise it was what happens when she gets in a big situation against a player having had what she had happen a few weeks back and I mean look the moment she she broke back I thought I thought she's right she's right in there with a chance but but I mean what what really fascinated me is how she just didn't really buckle um there are a couple of shots that Svantec hits that are really problematic for an Isomova and it's the main one is that forehand that she hits short cross court that bounds out into the sidelines and and Isomova will never be the quickest of movers but she she has got herself into sufficiently good fitness and and good sort of fast twitch or whatever it is that she's at least able to manage it you know and she can she made a lot of balls today you know she didn't win all the points where she was retrieving but she still made a lot of points competitive and yeah it's it's it's a feel-good story what she's achieved here um and i mean obviously svantec fans will be sad that she's gone out but look she's already had a great summer this is huge for anissa mova and huge for the game because there's another a great contender right in there.

14:03Matt Roberts: And the more I think about what Anisimova had to say both on the court and in the press conference after the match, and I know this is really easy to say after she's won this match, but the more I think about it, the more I think win or lose, it was incredibly important and fortuitous that this rematch came as soon as it did. The longer it went on, the more it could have lingered. I'm not saying I wouldn't have backed her to to overcome it eventually but I do think it's helped her that it's come this soon this draw has helped her for sure and it's forced her to engage in exposure therapy the way she explained to us in her press conference how she's dealt with that Wimbledon final experience over the last 53 days the sort of various different phases of that process was incredible at first Well, she had at very first, she was on the phone to a friend kind of laughing about it half an hour later, kind of laughing at the absurdity of it all.

15:07Matt Roberts: And I do think I get the impression Amanda Inesmova is a tennis player with real, true friends. And I sometimes worry about that for tennis players. I think a lot of them don't have that because it's extremely hard to build and maintain friendships with this kind of life. and she does strike me as somebody that has that and values that and nurtures that and I think that's incredibly powerful. And I think that's a mix of friends from within tennis but also outside tennis as well. Exactly. So yeah, she said 30 minutes after that experience I was on the phone and we were laughing at the absurdity of it all and I think a lot of people will be able to relate to how healing that can be when a crazy, awful thing has happened to you.

15:54Matt Roberts: and then for a long time she just didn't think about it at all she compartmentalized it she put it away she put it in a box don't want to think about it totally fair enough and then she told us that last night she watched the Wimbledon final I cannot stop thinking about the fact that she did that she was like I feel like I better face it I better face down my demons. I better find out what I did wrong. Absolutely. And like thinking about everything we've talked about this tournament, about accountability and you can only have proper growth with real accountability and facing up to yourself. Like, my God, she...

16:39Matt Roberts: What a model for that she is. That's the story of the tournament, that she did that.

16:44David Law: And she told us about it. and she told us about it after having conquered her demons, if you like, because how could you not be affected by a result like that on a setting like that? I'm so impressed.

17:03Catherine Whitaker: And Catherine, it was your question that elicited that response and then you followed up by saying, well, what did you see? What did you do wrong? And she was able to laugh at it, wasn't she? She said, oh, I was as slow as hell.

17:19Matt Roberts: She said my reactions were just so slow.

17:22Catherine Whitaker: And that followed a line that she'd already given in the press conference about one of the things she consciously made an effort to do today while on court, kind of going back to our discussion about Al Karaz and his body language, she said, I just tried to move around a lot. And she said, which is not something I usually do. And, you know, for us experienced Amanda and Samova Watchers, like there was a very notable difference definitely and you know she she talked about wanting to play fearless brave tennis and she said in her encore interview didn't she that today proved everything for me I can do it and I think that absolutely speaks to what you said about why she needed this match soon because otherwise she'd have been wondering if she Right, there'd have been this constant doubt in her mind.

18:14No matter what she achieved over the next months, and maybe even years if she didn't play Igor Sviontek again, there'd just always be that thing there in her mind that might hold her back. It feels like now there's nothing holding her back. Like, yes, players might be better than her on the day. Naomi Osaka is a full-time major champion.

18:36Catherine Whitaker: She may well beat her tomorrow, or potentially Irina Sabalenka in the final. you know these are great players she can lose to them but she's not going to lose to them because of something holding her back she's going to be able to give her all and give her best tennis and from where she's come from you know she talked about how a few years ago every single day was a shitty day you know and now like she said every day I'm I'm happy and like that that journey that she's been on she has done so much work in her life I think you know we talk about it we see it on the court in terms of like the physical work that she's done and the technical improvements and all of that but the mental and emotional work that she's done is it's truly truly inspiring and yeah I mean these these people from Freehold New Jersey that don't know one another exist right well hang on does bruce know about amanda maybe he does now

19:45Matt Roberts: hang hang on a second if amanda reaches the final does bruce come he's got a film to promote jeremy allen white's been here every day i would love to say yes but i doubt it this is a come and get me plea to bruce springsteen please be here it's quite a few

20:05David Law: years since she said she didn't know who he was. I mean, she might be like well into his music by now, for all we know.

20:14Matt Roberts: Maybe. I feel like if growing up in Freehold, New Jersey didn't get her into Bruce music, then the ship might have sailed. But yes, we'll give her the benefit of the doubt until she proves this otherwise.

20:27Matt Roberts: I already had one follow-up to the question I asked her, so and which was to ask, what did you get from watching the final back last night? And she explained, you know, she said, you know, I was slow. I need to not be as slow today. But she also said that after she'd watched the final back, she said, then I had to watch some good highlights of myself to remove that final from my brain. And Matt had his hand up for an excellent follow-up that unfortunately he wasn't called upon, which is a real miss. Yes, I wanted to know what were the good highlights that she watched. And recommend her some. I had plenty of recommendations.

21:08Matt Roberts: Yeah, come look at my creepy YouTube playlist. Well, we start with 2019 Australian Open. Oh, it's such... Look, I really feel for Iga Shiontek, but you cannot deny the Amanda Renesimova story. I know we have a special interest here. I want Matt to go blonde on Saturday. I want Bruce Springsteen to come. But this story of her coming back from something that could have ruined her. Could have ruined her 53 days ago. Or it certainly could have compromised her for the rest of her career or defined her. Her coming back and doing this today is absolutely unreal. I think she's a marvel. And you don't say that lightly.

22:00Matt Roberts: That is a word I usually reserve only for Bertrand van der Zanskool. So there you go, Amanda, two wins today. The eager Svantec of it all. Look, she wasn't at her best today. She has released a statement on Instagram telling us about that, this foot injury. her press conference was a reminder David that she as you always talk about so well I think is that she even when she's winning she's always treading a line isn't she sometimes she's on the right side of that line and sometimes she's just on the wrong side of that line but she is

22:38David Law: always somewhere near it yeah I I thought game wise I don't think she was she didn't look that far away to me of being in good form I think her opponent really did cause us some problems and at the same time those margins are so slim aren't they the difference between you being absolutely at the very best of your powers and and not being quite there at this level You don't win Grand Slams unless you're at your absolute best, I don't think. But still, it's been a heck of a summer for her. It's just been a really, really busy one. And I mean, you know, I ended up asking her about that workload. I mean, that was something I asked in my question, which my thinking was that all the other, well, the other title holder at Wimbledon, Yannick Sinner and his opponent, Carlos Alcaraz and Irina Sabalenka as well, though she didn't go as far.

23:52David Law: they all missed Canada. And even Naomi Osaka, who reached the final of Canada, and Victoria Mboko, who won Canada, then didn't play Cincinnati. And Iga played them all, having won Wimbledon. And I just thought, how tired must you be? That was what I was thinking. I was thinking, you must need a holiday right now after all this. My big Ibiza agenda. Yes, and I did sort of, and I didn't want to put her on the spot of thinking, oh, if I say yes to that, I'm going to blame it on, I look like I'm blaming the loss on that. But I just genuinely was curious, you know, how tired do you feel right now? It's like when we reach the end of these tournaments.

24:39David Law: It's been great, we've done well, but oh my God, I need to just go and switch off. And I need to not look at another microphone for however many days and have a rest. So I asked her, how tired do you feel right now? And she sort of pondered on it for quite a few seconds without saying anything. I think thinking about, well, I haven't played, she said I haven't played many long matches.

25:04Matt Roberts: She interpreted it in an entirely physical way, didn't she?

25:09David Law: Yes. So hearing that, I sort of tried to change direction and point out, well my main set my intention was to say well don't you just need like a holiday and just to switch off from tennis for a while like like those other players do I didn't I didn't phrase it like that I said do you do you maybe need a mental break I mean so do you need a sort of break from it all is what I was trying to trying to get at and uh I don't think she took it in quite that way that I intended and which I understand I think maybe that wording wasn't ideal and and and she she bristled at it and we you know we it was it was a little a little awkward to be honest and you know you may well have read about that and heard about it but but that that's what happened and that's certainly what my intention was when I asked the question is is do you need to go on holiday now and I perhaps should have said that but there we are and she perhaps shouldn't

26:08Matt Roberts: have been so rude to you in response because she was rude she was she was rude it was extremely uncomfortable um listen and it was unnecessary i know you can handle it but but also i get i do get

26:21David Law: it as well from from her perspective um a that phrasing perhaps not being ideal and also you have just lost a very important match that means a lot to you and also you have just played all this stuff and you probably do need a bloody holiday in all honesty so there we are Ibiza

26:40Matt Roberts: Ibiza for all let's all go to Ibiza with Carlos Alcaraz seems like that's the that's the the choice David would you like to talk about Naomi Osaka I wouldn't mind off you go well I mean it's

26:52David Law: a very it's not the same story but there are there are real parallels with the mandarin and them over aren't there I mean it's right down to the fact that that Naomi Osaka has had a lot of a lot of challenges trying to deal with this life that you lead as a tennis player it's it's not easy it's not easy and she's had a lot of ups and downs since winning those Grand Slam titles she she's talked very openly about the depression she's suffered and I just remember coming here two years ago when she'd she just had her her baby and she gave a mental health discussion with Michael Phelps in the press conference room that that we've been in today and she she was talking about wanting to make a comeback and I remember just thinking god it's so nice to see you it's just I don't know her I just I've just watched her for years and like her and love watching her play.

27:58David Law: And it's been a struggle really coming back, hasn't it? It hasn't really happened until quite recently. And tonight, that match she played against Mukovo, Carolyn Mukovo, who I was very sorry for because she was clearly physically hindered and impeded today. She wasn't, she's not 100 % fit. And yet she played so beautifully, so convincingly with such conviction did Mukhova that you actually had and it's quite interesting you know where we sit we've got great seats in the press seats sort of I don't know 15 rows back or whatever it is but what you can't see you can't see the expressions on faces in quite the same way so I couldn't see maybe the winces that Mukhova was giving that that you can see on TV I could see her juddering to the stop and sort of running through shots rather than stopping on a dime and then switching direction but in terms of the actual quality of tennis that I was watching from both players they were both doing what they do to the absolute ultimate you'd got Osaka getting behind every ball hitting it with full velocity both sides into the corners you'd got Mukova just stroking the ball back at her, timing it out of the middle of the racket, sometimes knocking Osaka back on her heels just with timing, then hitting short balls, then hitting slices, then coming in and hitting drop volleys.

29:26David Law: I mean, she hit one drop volley off her ankles, off her full-blooded forehand from Osaka that made me make a sound that I'm really not supposed to make in the press seats. I was in ecstasy watching this match because these are two of my absolute favourite players to watch. And it's just a shame that Muka wasn't fully fit. But yeah, those first eight games will really stay with me. But what will stay with me from the specific performance of Osaka is every time she went down, she came back. She went to break down twice in the second set. And the number of times she served her way out of trouble with an ace or hit a winner, you know, she just, her attitude, she would sort of kind of like absorb the disappointment for a few seconds of a lost point and then just nod and then say right you know on we go and I thought this is great and she was

30:23Matt Roberts: she was really was a worthy winner all stemming from a round table meeting after Washington

30:31David Law: she told us yes with her team and I was trying to figure out and this was after the Raducanu loss and before she hired Thomas Witkroski. But I was trying to work out, well, was Patrick Moritoglu in this meeting or was he gone by then? I don't know the answer to that.

30:47Matt Roberts: Yeah, we don't... The announcement was afterwards, but that doesn't mean that the decision was afterwards. I would love to know dearly. Matt, your take on this match? on this match. I mean, mine, aside from all of David's Nomiya Sarko takes that I agree with, I'd just like to give a shout-out to Karolina Mukova, who basically on one leg played pretty dreamy tennis. Like, her level of talent to be able to play like that and trust her hands to do what her legs couldn't was incredible to make that as competitive as she did, four and six, you know, and she had chances to extend it to a third set, really.

31:36Matt Roberts: And it was pretty amazing that, I didn't know how to read this answer, really, that Osaka said she didn't notice how hampered Mukovo. She said she obviously noticed that she took the medical timeout at the end of the first set and came back with her hamstring strapped, but she didn't notice Mukovovov being physically compromised at all. And maybe she's just so in the zone and, you know, You don't want to do an Alcoraz against Djokovic in Australia and get sucked into the vortex. But to me, it was so obvious that Mook, I mean, she wasn't putting any weight on that left leg. Left leg, yeah. But not many players could play like that, that injured.

32:18No, she was so compromised and yet still so dangerous because of her hand skills and her tactical awareness as well, I think, to kind of use what she had in the most effective way.

32:36Catherine Whitaker: And, look, I think my big overarching take is the same as David's. Like, that could well have ended up in the third set tonight for Naomi Osaka. Like, her recoveries from a breakdown were what impressed me the most because that was kind of the big concern I had coming out of Montreal, you know, where we saw what happened in the final there. Once it got away, it really got away from her. But she's at this tournament with her very obvious, as Dave has described, more positive, intentional body language. She's been able to stop those getting away from her. I think it did a little bit against Kasikina, but generally she's been so contained on court and not panicked.

33:31Catherine Whitaker: She talked about that in her press conference as well, how pleased she is that she's not panicking in these matches. And I think up against an injured Mukova who was still dangerous, it would have been easy to panic. It would have been easy to be like, I know she said she wasn't really aware of how injured Mukova was, but it could have been easy to think, oh my God, how is she doing this? But she just didn't let that happen. That was very, very impressive mentality tonight, I think, from Osaka. I quite liked her answer about her superstition as well because she was in her purple outfit tonight, her purple dress, whereas the red one is actually her night session dress.

34:16Catherine Whitaker: I prefer the red one. she's been playing better in the purple one, so she wanted to...

34:21Matt Roberts: I don't like the purple one.

34:22Catherine Whitaker: And she said she thinks it looks better on her. Oh, I do.

34:25Matt Roberts: No. No, I don't. OK. But it might be sort of figure skating outfit. It just looks too much like a cheap figure skating outfit to me. But I'm absolutely sure it's not cheap. But the red one looks less so. And something about the hair stuff was more dramatic with the red. but everyone loves it and I'm I'm thrilled for her yeah so folks that gives us a semi-final of Naomi Osaka against Amanda Anisimova it's like Fulham against West Brom that is a perhaps an insult to both Anisimova and Osaka I would like to ask for some entirely objective takes about what's going to happen, please.

35:18David Law: Do you know, I think it's going to be an absolute classic.

35:23Catherine Whitaker: My idea as well.

35:24David Law: I think it's going to be like when Naomi Osaka faced Jennifer Brady. Remember that semi-final here? 2020. Four or five years ago. And it was followed by Serena Williams against Victoria Hans Rangel. It was one of the nights of my tennis watch in life, that was. two matches of the highest quality and drama.

35:46Matt Roberts: What it might also be like is the match that they played against one another in Australia in 2022 that Matt remembers, potentially watches sort of every night before he goes to bed.

35:57David Law: It's on my list. I am really, I don't remember that match and I'm really curious to watch it now. You know, I'm fascinated to see what these rallies look like between these two. One of the things I remember the most

36:11Catherine Whitaker: is Osaka's press conference after that. And I actually looked it up today to make sure I had remembered it correctly and hadn't just imagined it.

36:18Matt Roberts: This match was 7-6 in the third to Inisimova. It was, it could not have been better in terms of quality and drama, everything. Yeah, exactly. It delivered. Yeah, and look, Osaka, by that point early in 2022, wasn't playing her best tennis. She was beginning to just fall off a little bit

36:38Catherine Whitaker: from the level that she'd had winning four major titles before then. And Anissa Mova, you know, she was a very different player as well. She was coached by Darren Cahill in that period. You know, it's a very sort of moment in time match, I think, this one. But what I remember is just how taken aback Osaka was by the Anissa Mova ball, you know. And I felt like she described it in a way that really made sense for me at the time. trying to figure out why I like the Onisimov game so much. I think Osaka put it really well. She said, her shots are, they're not strong, but they come at you fast. It's not heavy, but it comes at me so quickly, I didn't have time to set up.

37:22Catherine Whitaker: And it stayed really low to the ground. And I remember, you know, that really being a great description of the Onisimov shots because she doesn't strike the ball with venom. and yet players are rocked back by the the smooth power that she has it affects

37:44David Law: players more like Mukovers in that way I mean I was watching Mukovers forehand today and through the air when you're looking side on it goes through the air faster than Osaka's which has got a bit more work on it but and sort of arrows and the back end of Anissimova doesn't look to the naked eye to me at as though it's got any spin on it at all, really.

38:07Catherine Whitaker: And then they met again at the French Open, you know, the very next slam that year, and again Anissima over one. So she leads that head-to-head 2-0. And look, I just find it fascinating because one of the things Osaka mentioned about that round table of coaches that she had after Washington was she felt like she can beat anyone from the baseline. She said that to her team, apparently. I feel like I can beat anyone from the back of the court. And that, to me, is the enticing, fascinating bit about this match because I do find it hard to split them in terms of when they're at their best from the baseline because they've both got that thing that you've just described earlier in the show, dangerous from both sides.

38:57Catherine Whitaker: Like, where do you go? If Anissimova's hitting her forehand like she was today, that's a huge problem because you do not want to go into the backhand. You just don't. The forehand is the wing you would go to, but it was so dangerous today. But then Asaka, with this improved movement that we're seeing now, her ability to get behind the ball, as you've described, David, and unleash on those ground strokes, that's a huge problem for everyone as well. And I'm going to go and it's him over. Of course I am. But it's on a knife edge, I think. And that's what makes it tantalising. I cannot wait. Women's semi-final night at the US Open is pretty much my favourite day of the tennis season anyway.

39:42Catherine Whitaker: And the fact that we get this match up, bring it on.

39:46David Law: I think it will be Osaka for the reason of the serve. which I just find so efficient at the moment, and the movement. I think ground stroke-wise, I can't separate them, really. They're slightly different types of ground stroke, but I think the movement is quite a significant superiority for Osaka. And also, I picked her to win the title, so she's going to win the whole thing.

40:16Matt Roberts: Okay, we'll get a prediction for the other women's semi-final in part three. That's it for part one. join us in part two when we talk about the men.

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42:23Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of the Tennis Podcast, where we turn our attention to the men now. Two very different matches on the men's side today. setting up a semi-final between Félix Auger-Aliassime and Yannick Sinner. Let's start with Félix Auger-Aliassime and his route through to this second Grand Slam semi-final, his previous one taking place here as well, back in 2021. Four hours and ten minutes, 4-6-7-6-7-5-7-6. Sounds like a thriller, doesn't it? Matt? It sounds like a thriller. Look I think when we previewed this match yesterday We said the nerves could hang over it

43:16Catherine Whitaker: You know, it was a massive opportunity for both players You know, Grand Sam called a final To get to a semi-final for the first time for Alex Dimonor The second time for Felix Auger-Aliassime it just felt like it could well be a match affected by nerves and may not be the best quality tennis and look I think that's what happened I mean Ujali Ossim said as much didn't he in his on-court interview afterwards there was a lot of nerves it wasn't pretty at times but you know you made the point that is what Grand Slam tennis is like it's not supposed to be easy it isn't easy and in the just just enough times in the biggest moments Ojal Yassim came up with the tennis that he needed to win this one um it was it was kind of the match where I think I'd have been more into it if it was best of three you know preach like I think when it went one said all and neither of them were quite at their best

44:24Matt Roberts: there wasn't any sense of urgency and we were already about

44:27Catherine Whitaker: two and a half hours in yeah it did kind of feel like god wouldn't it be great if this were the deciding set now

44:33Matt Roberts: and they both had that deadline and it just didn't I do think it's important to point this out I don't I don't want to lay into Urgele, Seymour and Dumenor trying their hearts out and of course they were nervous it's absolutely fine it's not their fault but you know people will very quickly and lazily point to the French Open men's final as evidence of why best of five is a great thing and it can never ever be touched and of course I fucking loved the French Open final I'd be devastated if that didn't exist in my life but But for every one of those, there's quite a lot of these. And I do think it's quite important to point that out because they don't get highlighted as much.

45:26Matt Roberts: And people don't think of them when they're just sort of default

45:35Matt Roberts: defending best of five in a very sort of institutionalised way, I think. And I think the other aspect that sort of took away from my enjoyment of this match is that there's kind of two ways to experience like a Grand Sam tournament. There's the way that we experience it and like mega fans experience it, which is watching every match, watching every day, living it. And they're very aware of the whole narrative of the tournament. and if you're fully aware of that you knew that the winner of this was likely to face Yannick Sinner in the semi-final and you can appreciate it for the for them in that experience but in terms of like the big narrative of the tournament it didn't feel like hugely consequential and yet it was taking up five hours of our of our time and it wasn't that good you know but I would say that like people who just dip in to a tournament they come here for a day and they get that match and then maybe more casual tennis fans.

46:38OK, it wasn't the highest quality, but I bet they were more into the fact that it was on an iFix. We have been crying out for a close match in the men's.

46:49Matt Roberts: I wasn't crying out for this match. No, I wasn't, but I think some people would have just enjoyed the fact that it was close. We didn't really know who was going to win. They're not worried about who Auger Liasim and Dimonor are going on to face in the next round. They're just here for this. and as a sporting spectacle if you take away all of that outside context it was two guys trying their best close moments and I'm sure that there were people who enjoyed it for that. I wasn't one of them because as I said I'm experiencing the tournament a bit differently to that and I found it tough but you know I can appreciate it for De Menor and for Auxelius Seam and it was in the balance and it looked like it could go to a fifth set when de Manor went up in the fourth and Augie Elisim didn't let it he I love that he brought it back you know and if you know some

47:41David Law: of his backstory as well and have known how much he's struggled really the last couple of years this is a guy who was at this level four years ago when he's 21 and it's all new and all fresh and everybody's telling him how great he's going to be and he's so impressive to talk to like when you hear him, the way he... I mean, it's not rip-roaring quotes. Don't get me wrong. You know, we're not leading podcasts because Felix Hojianli, I assume, has just said something incredible. But it's the maturity of him. It's the way he doesn't get down on himself, or at least he says he just moves on. And process might sound boring, but process is what gets these people where they want to go.

48:28I mean, my chat with him on the eve of this tournament for Tennis Podcast Meats, he said, I can't just have some magic wand to get me back to where I was.

48:39David Law: And yet here he is. He is back where he was. And he's done it with a chat with me. Magic wand equals David Law. He's done it by incrementally building his way back and getting himself confident and his game in order so that he could beat Roman Cefiulin in the second round. That gave him some impetus to go in against Zverev. And he serves decently in the first set, loses his serve once, gets broken, then figures it out, starts to work his way back in. He's built his way into the semifinals and he had to do that from a set down today. He had to do it from kind of sort of tightening in the fourth set.

49:23David Law: And he won anyway. What a triumph that is. Yeah, because I think I think Diminor

49:32Catherine Whitaker: Will probably think he He should have won three of the sets today You know, he won the first one He had a set point in the second one And he was well ahead in the fourth But he couldn't quite close And in a match of such Such tight margins It was Augiali Asim who Just brought it a little bit more In those biggest moments It wasn't anywhere near as convincing as his performance over Zverev or Rublev. It was about the struggle. It was about just getting over the line. And he's displayed all the things there for this tournament. You know, he's had his performance where he was pretty flawless against Zverev.

50:14You can't expect to play like that all the time. You know, you've got to be able to get through the matches where you don't quite have your best tennis.

50:21Catherine Whitaker: And he did do that today. and look, he's now, as you said, back into a Grand Slam semi-final and from where he was just a few weeks ago, I never really would have picked Orgelia Seem to have come through this section with Zverev in, with Rublev in, with Dimonor in, who just all felt like sure are bets at the start of this tournament and yet he's the one who's got through and credit to him.

50:46Matt Roberts: Just quickly on Alex Dimonor, that's six Grand Slam quarter-finals for him now with no semis, will he ever break that ceiling?

50:57David Law: To get to a semi? I think he will. Yeah, I do think he'll... I mean, he was very close today, and I think if he's running into Yannick Sinner, no, I don't think he will.

51:09Matt Roberts: But this was a day when he didn't. No, I know. And haven't you got to take advantage of those days?

51:13David Law: But he wasn't that far away, and I think he's young enough and he's reliable enough to give himself more looks at it. and I think he's been playing better tennis in his career than he is at the moment I know that

51:27Catherine Whitaker: he's had a couple of Grand Slam quarterfinals and that's a really nice bit of consistency he's had just now Wimbledon and and the US Open and he and he had the title in between didn't he in in Washington it's a really on paper it's a really good run of form I think eye test wise he's been more convincing he's been better in the past and I think if he was in that form and he had this draw, he could have done it. Now, that's a lot of ifs, that's a lot of things coming together at the right time, but I'd love to see him do it in Australia, where he does get great support there.

52:04Matt Roberts: Somewhere where the host broadcaster is doing an Alex de Minoil road to the title graphic after the draw.

52:12David Law: Mind you, they're doing a Christopher O 'Connell road to the title. Yeah, I mean... No offence, Chris.

52:19Matt Roberts: I'm so excited about the Chris O 'Connell. I'm already excited about Australia and Chris O 'Connell road to the title graphic. Because we talked about the slight chippiness in his press conference the other day, where he was saying he felt like he'd been a little bit disrespected by the tournament in terms of his court assignments here. Today's performance was not a great rebuke to that, in terms of how he did play on that big stage. But as was pointed out to him in the press conference, he is a big deal in Australia. They do give him big assignments, as they should. He's their best player.

53:02Catherine Whitaker: And it's great when Alex de Manor gets a big Rod Laver Arena moment. And he's been unfortunate that, as David said, he's had Yannick Sinner in his path. and he had to know about Djokovic, didn't he, when Djokovic was just out to get him. I feel like this kind of draw in Australia, he can break that ceiling. So I would love to see it. I really like his game. I really like him. And I think he'll play better tennis than he's playing right now in the future.

53:35Matt Roberts: So it is Felix Auger-Eliassime that gets to be thrown into the Yannick Sinner enclosure.

53:44Matt Roberts: Sinner after beating countryman Lorenzo Mazzetti 6-1, 6-4, 6-2 in a match that I think basically looked exactly as we thought it would look. Yeah, even up to the way Mazzetti entered the court. Like, he won the fit check with his great leather jacket. Well done, Lorenzo.

54:10David Law: His all-black fit. he couldn't have been more Federer from whenever it was 2007 or something

54:16Matt Roberts: but with a little bit of Italian has any man ever looked better entering a tennis court no and he goes into his pre-match interview in the tunnel and he says I'm I'm going to shock the world I'm hoping to surprise I'm hoping to surprise everyone I missed that and then he's five love down or whatever it was He won nine points in the first set. Yeah, and Sinner was sublime. Sinner was amazing. Absolutely sublime.

54:47David Law: He is lethal, isn't he, on that court? On these hard courts.

54:52Catherine Whitaker: You know, we've talked about Anisimova and Asaka with devastating power off both wings. I mean, on the men's tour, look no further than Yannick Sinner for that. Like, his ball speed off both wings. Where do you go? and he's an astonishing mover and his serve is brilliant and he holds up in all the big moments

55:12David Law: He hits to hurt He's all over you Yeah, and look if Mazzetti was going to have any chance he was going to have to play the perfect match and take even his half chances and the point that stood out to me was in the second set Mazzetti had a break point he hadn't taken it he'd fended off a break point he was in it he was at least in the set

55:35Catherine Whitaker: He was 4-3 up. Sinner was serving. It was 15-all. And Mazzetti did a brilliant return into play. And he had a short forehand and he netted it. I just thought that there and then is the problem. It's not even really a chance. 15-all on your opponent's serve. And yet against Sinner, that's pretty much a massive chance. Because you're in the point and he just couldn't quite execute. He ended up having seven break points and not taking any of them in the match. But most of them were just brilliantly saved by Sinner, who just, yeah, as you said, came out with an intent to just dominate. And Mazzetti, you know, we've talked about his path through here.

56:24I still don't think he's a top 20 hard court player in the world. I know he's in the last eight of a hardcourt major,

56:33Catherine Whitaker: but I think what we've seen coming into this tournament, what we've seen really in the last few years, he's got a lot of work still to do on the hardcourts, and he can get rushed, and Sinner just ripped this from him. It's a really nice run for Mazzetti. It's a very, very valuable point. Helps him with Turin, doesn't it? He's absolutely in the mix for Turin, and that would be great if he could get there. but Sinner is levels above him on a hard court I think and demonstrated that.

57:03Matt Roberts: So Sinner against Orgelia Seem will be the second men's semi-final on Friday. The first will be Alcaraz against Djokovic. I'm sure they'd love to switch those around because Alcaraz-Djokovic feels like the headline match but we think that they kind of can't, that it's an unwritten rule that the players that get the extra day off have to play the first semi-final which does make sense. I haven't checked it, but I think there's been some suggestion that they did switch it for the All-American clash last year with Tiafoe and Fritz. I can't honestly remember. I'll have to go back and look at that.

57:40David Law: Well, that match was certainly second. It was definitely second.

57:43Catherine Whitaker: It was just a question of whether, you know, what half of the draw would play first.

57:47Matt Roberts: We're going by the fact that ESPN confidently declared that it would be that order.

57:52Catherine Whitaker: For Djokovic-Halker.

57:53Matt Roberts: That's what we'll assume. We had women's double semifinals today. It was the top four seeds in the women's double semifinals. Siniarkova and Townsend, the top seeds, beating Kulmatova and Mertens 6-3, 7-6. And then Dabrowski and Routliff beating Irani and Paolini. So the women's doubles final will be Katarina Siniarkova, Taylor Townsend against Gabi Dabrowski and Erin Routliff. I think that'll be a cool match and a great crowd in for that, which should be very cool to see. That is it for part two. Join us in part three when we look ahead to tomorrow. One of the best shows in tennis, U.S. Open Women's semifinal night.

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59:45Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast. Let's have a little look at tomorrow now. I think you know what's coming. It starts on the Arthur Ashe Stadium at 7pm. I love that they do the women's semifinals as a night session here. It's just the most incredible ticket. If you've got a ticket for tomorrow night, then lucky you. You're going to have a great time. It starts with Irina Sabalenka against Jessica Pagula. Predictions please.

1:00:16Catherine Whitaker: I'm going Sabalenka. Look, I think there's a potential question over whether having that walkover was good for Sabalenka. That's something that always gets thrown into the conversation when something like that happens. I don't know if there's a definitive answer. maybe it affects different players in different ways.

1:00:44Catherine Whitaker: But, look, I think Irina Sabalenka is a better player than Pagula. And I think, you know, particularly on a hard court, she's just convincing Sabalenka. I have some doubts about her in the latter stages of these major tournaments, considering her conversion rate isn't that good, considering how often she gets here.

1:01:10Catherine Whitaker: But I'm not convinced that Pagula makes her uncomfortable enough. You know, I think we've seen Anissimova and Keyes this year kind of hit her off the court to varying degrees at the Australian Open and at Wimbledon. And we've seen Coco Gauff frazzle her mind with defence and, you know, the whole conditions in that match. And Pagula, you know, she played great in last year's final, Pagula. I'm not sure she can play all that much better. I know that she thinks she could serve better. I think she had a not great serving day in that final, Pagula. So that's definitely an aspect she could improve. But she played really well, Pagula.

1:01:52Catherine Whitaker: But Zabalenka just stepped up at the end of each set and managed to win them. And I just feel like maybe something like that will happen again. Pagula's been starting matches brilliantly I think there's a chance she comes out really hot here and rattles Sabalenka and that might be her best route to victory start well, get the crowd up get Sabalenka a little bit rattled that's a scenario I could imagine but I'm going Sabalenka with her bigger game the options at her disposal the tie-break record to fall back on if she needs it yeah I'm going Sam Malenka in this one but I'm looking forward to it I really am

1:02:37David Law: I hesitated a little because I was suddenly thinking of how efficient Jessica Begula's game has looked and that inactivity for a few days that Sam Malenka's had but I still I basically agree with every word you've said I know that's not exactly a great addition to the conversation but I think that's great analysis. She is just a better player and I would expect that she will bring out the goods on an occasion like this. I think it could be very similar to their final which was 7-5, 7-5. I think there could be some rocky moments. The crowd could be in it but I think Sabalenka will find a way.

1:03:18Matt Roberts: Yeah, I'm getting Sabalenka for reasons that were confirmed for me by Matt Stat today, which if you'd like to see, you can subscribe to the newsletter. There was a worrying moment around, I don't know what time it was. It was quite late in the day and I thought, oh shit, I haven't done my stat. That's why I'm giving it the big promo. I know the journey you went on today. But I think I pulled it out of the bag. He pulled it out of the bag big time, folks. It is worth subscribing to the newsletter for. We'll put the link in our show notes as always. second match of the day you've given your predictions I know neither of you are budging I'd like to know sets please hold on a minute

1:03:59David Law: I want to know what you think

1:04:03Matt Roberts: I'm going to go Anisimova head to head's 2-0

1:04:10Matt Roberts: and I'm all in look I will be thrilled for Osaka I love that there is no bad scenario here that will be awesome but that I'm overcome by what Anisimova did today. I find it really moving. Really, really moving.

1:04:28David Law: Well, I agree with you that it is. And I share the view that, look, because I said Osaka would win the tournament, I wanted to win the tournament, right? And I also do think she's great. I think she's really, it's lovely to see her back. But I also love Anisimova. I love watching her play. I love the fact that Matt Roberts could be dyeing his hair blonde on Saturday in honour of what he said he would do at Wimbledon, which so nearly happened.

1:04:59Matt Roberts: I also do think, and look, I have not watched every ball of every match this tournament. You watched Osaka tonight more closely than I did. This is not a scientific assessment. But from what I've seen, Anna Samova's tennis today was the best. Like, she took my breath away. And I want Matt to go blonde. But I'll also be thrilled for you, David. It's great. Yeah. Everything's great. It's no lose. It is great. Except I'd lose. There's the aspect of both players, obviously it's the same for both players, but having to come back the next day, it's going to throw them out of their rhythm.

1:05:37Catherine Whitaker: You know, like, I know that that happens in, it happens in Grand Sam tournaments for the women. They, you know, one half of the draw always has to do this in terms of playing back-to-back days.

1:05:48David Law: It's noticeable that Osaka came straight to her press conference within minutes of the match ending.

1:05:53Catherine Whitaker: That's what I thought. That's normally something that you might do if you've lost. Very rarely happens if you've won that you're in straight away. I think she was conscious of that.

1:06:01David Law: Get out of here, go and rest up.

1:06:03Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and I think it's maybe not a big factor. But it's not nothing. It's not nothing.

1:06:10Matt Roberts: If Anisimo hadn't been to a Grand Slam final before, obviously very recently I would give more weight to that factor and it is interesting isn't it, you know, Osaka is historically the player with much more experience on this occasion on this stage but it's experience that was

1:06:33Catherine Whitaker: years ago you know, she hasn't been in a Grand Sam semi-final for four and a half almost five years

1:06:40Matt Roberts: it's like Anissa Mova at Wimbledon She'd been in one, but it was 2019. That was a whole pandemic ago. Right. Different lifetime. Whereas Inissimova's last Grand Semi-Final was a few weeks ago, and she played great in it. I am expecting both players to show up. I'm expecting a classic.

1:07:01Catherine Whitaker: I think it's going to be unbelievable.

1:07:04Matt Roberts: Armstrong tomorrow is Men's Double Semi-Finals, as well as Junior Quarterfinals. the men's double semifinals are Yuki Banbury and Michael Venus against the British pairing of Joe Salisbury and Neil Skubsky and then we have Robert Cash and JJ Tracy the all-American pairing my biggest laugh of the day came from clicking on Robert Cash within the US Open app and seeing his profile picture I won't I won't spoil it for you but just if you've got a free few minutes to spare, I recommend you do the same. So Cash and Tracy take on The Fifth Seeds, Marcel Grinojas and Horatio Zabaios. That is tomorrow on Armstrong.

1:07:50Matt Roberts: Have you just done it? I've just done it. That is sensational. That is a child. Yeah.

1:08:02Just

1:08:03Matt Roberts: if you need a laugh, Or if you do, whatever. Robert Cash. Look it up. Click on him in the schedule. Folks, we have our lovely mascots. Hello to Phoebe. Hello to Maisie. And hello to Roger. Hello to Greg, Chris and Jeff, our executive producers and all around top folks. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We're going to leave shout outs for tonight because, frankly, they're hoovering up around us right now. And I was going to say we have a bus to catch, but I'm worried we might not even have a bus to catch. But let's go and find out, shall we? Thanks for listening. We hope to be back tomorrow.

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