US Open Day 12 - Top two set up blockbuster women’s final

0:00As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

0:34Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

0:42Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:26Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, coming to you from Flushing Meadows on Women's Semi-Finals night at the US Open, a night which saw the New York celebrities really show up and show out. David learned a lot of new names tonight of singers and rappers that he was not previously aware of. And let's be honest, most of them were in the house hoping to see at least one, if not two, American victories. And they right now are leaving disappointed because what they've seen tonight is the two best players in the world stepping up and showing why they are just that. First off, Irina Sabalenka with a breathtaking performance to beat Jessica Bagula in straight sets.

2:11And lastly, Elena Rabakina gritting her teeth to battle past Coco Goff in three nail-biting sets. Two very different matches tonight, David, setting up a pretty tasty world number one grudge match on Saturday. Or at least that's what I hope it's going to be.

2:30David Law: Yeah, that's our spin on it anyway. Let's hope it lives up to that. But I would be surprised if it's not a good final, put it that way, based on the previous ones they've had. they were very different Sabalenka was imperious that is the best she has played in many months, you'd have to go back to the springtime the sunshine double, I think Jessica Begula wasn't terrible but she just couldn't live with that I think Coco Goff probably should have won tonight, I felt like she should have got there before Rebacaner really found her form but once Rebacaner had found her form they went in opposite directions.

3:11David Law: That was the problem for Goff. But, you know, all credit to these players who come into the Arthrash Stadium and barely have anybody cheering for them, and they're the ones who walk out winning. All credit to them and definitely not to us. Well done, guys, we nailed it.

3:29Catherine Whitaker: Let's get out ahead of this. We absolutely nailed it last night with our Pagula and Goff predictions. You know, like, the alarm bells were ringing, weren't they? was like, guys, you're all picking against the number one and the number two, all picking against the two players that have played the Australian Open final against each other, the Indian Wells final, the WTA finals final. Like, they're pretty good at this hard court thing, Savalenka and Rabakina. And we went vibes and the home story. We went vibes. And we got it wrong. We were close for Coco Gauff. I really do think that one was in the balance.

4:07Catherine Whitaker: And as David said, there was a world where Coco Gauff gets that done in straight sets tonight, I think. But well off with Pagula because Sabalenka was absolutely awesome. Let's start off with that Gauff match, shall we? Rabakina beating Gauff 3-6, 6-4, 6-4. Talk us through the match and why Coco Gauff didn't get this done in straight sets.

4:31David Law: Yeah, first set, I thought that Rabakina's game was off, to be honest. And the sheer number of unforced errors in the statistics line would tell you that. She was all over the place. At one point, she'd hit 20 unforced error backhands to seven of Goffs. And I realized that they're hitting a different number or a different velocity of shots. But those were the raw facts. and it seemed to me that Rabakina came out a bit frozen. She just didn't really have any timing. I thought part of that was caused by Goff just playing a very secure brand of tennis. She was hitting deep. She was hitting regularly close to the lines and just not missing much.

5:17David Law: And she was hitting well. She was serving well. Everything was just functioning well for Goff and Rabakina being short of her best just spraying it all over the place. And I did wonder whether she'd be able to gather herself freely in the second set. But she did. She raced off into a 4-1 lead, did Rebecca in the second set, and then it looked like we're going to be quick-firing to a deciding set. Goff gets it back to 4-1. It feels right in the balance then. And then the forehand just started to desert Coco Goff. And, I mean, I wrote down, she's having to work around her forehand for basically a set and a half of the match, just kind of like figure out ways either not to hit a forehand or hit a slice forehand because she doesn't trust it to hit it properly or loop it.

6:09David Law: Now, part of that is strategic, but I felt it ended up becoming how do I just not lose this match because of my forehand? And she nearly did it. But, you know, again, it just highlights the rare thing in top-level sport when somebody has such a weakness. And Rebacchina's, by contrast, didn't show up. She was sort of error-strewn for a lot of the match. She tightened it up as she went along, but she just doesn't have that standout weakness.

6:38Catherine Whitaker: And she played a fantastic final set, I thought, Rebacchina, like particularly on serve. She was very, very strong, and she was the one getting into Goff's service games. Goff was under pressure serving at Love 1 even, and she had to save some break points at 2-3. And she did, Goff, and you thought, OK, she keeps getting out of these little holes. Maybe she can exert some real pressure on Rabatkinna's serve, but she just couldn't properly get into those games. And it was kind of only a matter of time before Rabatkinna did eventually get the break, as she did to lead her serving for the match at 5-3.

7:14Catherine Whitaker: And I thought Rabatkinna was just going to serve it out because she'd been, as I said, so dominant on serve through the set, but she didn't. And Coco Gauff had one final fight back and push in her and managed to get the break back. And the Arthur Ashe Stadium was so loud at that point. She did it right under the nose of Michelle Obama. She's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's like, OK, she's got the break back, but now she's got to come out and hold to push it to 5-0 and extend the match. and as I said she'd been under pressure so much on serve all set Goff and Rabatkinner just went back to work.

7:56Catherine Whitaker: I think that's such an impressive final game from Rabatkinner. She hit heavy, she hit big and then on the final point of the match it was actually the kind of point that Coco Goff wins a lot by forcing players to hit one extra shot. Rabatkinner forced her to hit an overhead and we'd literally just been talking with Matt Futterman about how strong Coco Goff's overhead is and she fluffed this one and hit it long and that was the match gone and I think there was a bit of a look at shock on Goff's face. I really don't think she was expecting to miss like that. Such a brutal way to end, having had the fight back to break back and put the set on serve again.

8:39Catherine Whitaker: To lose it like that must have been gutting but I do think Rebecca deserves so much credit for A, how she found her game through this match, and B, how calm she stayed amidst the Arthur Ashe Stadium frenzy that Coco Goff can whip up. Yeah, Goff looked pretty devastated leaving the court. That was about half an hour ago. I did fear she might come into press very quickly. She hasn't been in yet. She's obviously taking her time, which I think is a good thing. She's due in in 10 minutes. so we will get that transcript in over the course of this show. I expect it to be quite different to her Wimbledon press conference, put it that way, which even though she lost from Matchpoint up in the Wimbledon semifinal, she was just so pleased to be there.

9:26It was all bonus, really, at Wimbledon and she was able to have that perspective on it so instantly, whereas I think she will see this one more as one that got away. That's my sense anyway. Yeah, I'd agree. but I really should stop making predictions on this podcast. I spend a lot of time watching Coco Goff thinking, do we make too much of her errors because of how big they are? Like an error costs the same whether you miss it in the bottom of the net or whether you hit the tape. You know, a winner counts for the same, whether it's a screaming Carlos Alcaraz touch half volley or whether it's a shank forehand, you know, that clips the sideline.

10:14And a lot of Goff's errors are just startlingly bad, aren't they? But they count the same as other errors. So sometimes I think, oh, do we allow that to kind of affect how we view her? But I think the thing that struck me over the course of this match is how much it affects her that the errors are bad. They feel bad. And that was, as you've just described, I feel so illustrated by missing the overhead on the match point. Like Coco Gauff can make that shot in her sleep, but she was infected at that point, it felt to me, by these ghastly forehand errors and how awful that must have felt in her body.

10:58David Law: Yeah, because I think what happens is there becomes an enormous premium on the other shots. She was making some backhand errors, which she wouldn't normally make. And I think it's because she thinks, oh, I've got a backhand. I've got to make the most of this. I've got to hit this really deep or open up the court or hit a winner. I've got an overhead. I'm good at overheads. I think she was quite surprised, pleasantly surprised that the forehand rolled in, that she hit down the line because I think everybody's heart was in their mouth when they saw it looping up in the air and it landed on the line.

11:26David Law: It opened up the court really nicely and she's underneath a lob. Okay, we're fine. But she's not fine because the whole game ends up being directed by what's happening with the forehand. And you feel, I certainly have this sense of dread when she's lining up forehands when she gets into that run. She actually sort of hit her way through it towards the latter stage of the match. She clearly decided, I'm not going to just try and get it in anymore. I'm going to take it on. And actually she hit a lot more good ones then and some of them she was running forehand to forehand rallies. I'm not sure what the rest of the Arthrash Stadium and fans generally are thinking when they're watching, but I am holding my breath when I see a line that shot up.

12:09David Law: And I get the sense that that's what the rest of the stadium is doing because they've seen so many of them and they look like the sort of forehand errors that they see in the park, some of them. And I think that then how can you not, if you're Coco Gauff, especially when you know you've got that thing going on, how can you not sort of just be anxious yourself? and that's how I just feel bad for her.

12:32Catherine Whitaker: And I think maybe part of it is because she's not really in the category of player that you expect to make a load of errors because she's not like a power player who totally goes after the ball all the time. You know, the errors come about because of quite shonky technique and that's just not something that you really see at the top of the game, as David was saying. It's rally ball errors a lot of the time. So they feel different, I think. But she does have a remarkable ability to, yes, be affected by them and feel them. You can sense that they're causing her distress, but she has a remarkable ability to keep going in these matches and keep fighting.

13:22Catherine Whitaker: It is a total superpower. like it would break other players I also think part of it today is she's aware of what's down the other end and the power that Rabatkinner has and if you just leave the ball in the slot if Rabatkinner finds her form as she did in this match you're just going to be a sitting duck and she didn't want to lose the match I think with winners absolutely flying past her off Rabatkinner's racket it felt to me like she was trying to force the issue a little bit more than she sometimes does, and that maybe did lead to a few more errors. Yeah, like, I find Coco-Goff matches so compelling.

14:07Catherine Whitaker: Like, I don't always know if they're really enjoyable or if I'm having a really sort of frustrating time almost, but I know that I'm always engaged and sort of hanging on every game. It feels like anything could happen in any game and it must be stressful to play matches like that, but it's an absolute treat for us to get to watch them. Is Rebecca the best serve in the women's game?

14:32David Law: I think so. I think it is overall, and yet I don't think she's been serving at her very best in recent times. 55 % first serves today. Yeah, I think she can serve better than she has been. And like I said in the first set, dearie, dear, I thought she was in danger of getting beaten handily. But huge credit to her for just handling the situation, not panicking then and not panicking at the end. I mean, there was a moment in the first set when it was two games all, when the crowd were loving it. You know, they were really into the fact that this was a highly competitive match that just had the Sabalenka-Pagula.

15:14David Law: And at two games all, it was almost like a standing ovation for the start of the Coco Gauff service game. and real warmth and eruption and anticipation. And I thought, crikey, imagine being the opponent in this scenario. And the way she handled it was admirable. She's one heck of a player. And this is a woman that apparently once again was showing signs of being in massive discomfort in her practice session. I mean, Matt and I bumped into somebody from Sky Sports prior to the match and he said, oh, you know, we ran some practice footage where she curtailed a rally and gestured towards her coach that she wanted to stop.

15:56And I joked to Matt, well, we're not reading anything into that because we've fallen down this trap before with Elena Rabakina. But of course, it was lurking in my mind, the possibility that she could retire or not be competitive, as it has been throughout this whole tournament. I just can't... I've said this so many times now, but I just can't believe this is a woman who couldn't walk

16:16David Law: less than two weeks ago. It really is astonishing. And she's also somebody who... She has incredibly high standards for herself. She might not be as loud as Sabalenka is in her perfectionism, but she is a perfectionist. You can see how frustrated, just little signs, how frustrated she gets when her shots aren't working. And she has to vent a little bit to the corner and try and deal with it and still come back. And that was her example. Her example of sort of winning ugly tonight, really, just being scrappy and getting through. And I can understand how a player like her would be like that because it's such a clean game, isn't it?

17:00The ball strike is... From the vantage point that we have in the media seats, you know, they're not the best... You know, woe is us. They're not the best media seats that we get. They're the worst of the four slams. but you do get a real sense of the flight of the ball and the speed of it through the air.

17:22David Law: It's piercing, isn't it? It's piercing, exactly. It's an arrow off the back in a racket and it looks like she's having to put very little exertion into creating that power. It's extraordinary technique and it's booked her a spot in a first US Open final on Saturday to face Irina Sabalenka and we will talk about her extraordinary win in part two.

17:47Matt Roberts: Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk about bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income is not easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy fans your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality and that isn't just a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Lots of firms love to highlight their star portfolio managers like it's all about that one brilliant mind making the magic happen. Vanguard's philosophy is a little different.

18:24Matt Roberts: They believe the best active strategy shouldn't be locked away with one person. They should be shared across the team. That way, every client benefits from the collective brainpower, not just one individual's take. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at Vanguard.com forward slash audio. That's Vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation distributor. This is Liv Perez from Let's Get Dressed. And one thing fashion has taught me is that the smallest details are often what makes something feel truly special.

19:04The weight of a fabric, the click of a clasp, or the way a beautifully tailored piece moves. Lexus approaches craftsmanship the exact same way. Their master craftsman, called Takumi, evaluates sensory details like the sound of a door closing, the click of a switch, and the acoustic feedback of the controls. They use human perception and intuition to create what feels right, and that's engineering to be felt. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer.

19:36Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here, and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden, or maybe on the golf course, can leave you more depleted than you realize, and plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

20:14Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where we turn our attention now to Irina Sabalenka's 7-5, 6-2 victory over Jessica Pagula. the third straight US Open where these two have met the least competitive scoreline, and yet possibly Jessica Bagula's best performance. I don't know. Certainly Irina Sabalenka's best performance, the performance of the tournament for me from Sabalenka. This was sublime.

20:44Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, she was absolutely brilliant from start to finish, Sabalenka. the first set I mean really the whole match was not what I was expecting because there weren't that many rallies you know the first set in particular was a lot of very good serving from both players and include Jessica Bagula in that and that had been the one thing that I really thought she needed to step up going into this match the way she'd been serving her serve had been pretty poor by her standards this tournament and she totally upped it today her percentage her effectiveness on that shot and she was you know she was right there with Sabalenka through the first set mostly she had a break point at four all Pagula and it was incredibly well saved by Sabalenka and then Sabalenka broke to to take the opening set and you looked at the numbers and Sabalenka had hit 17 winners in that first set to 12 errors and only six winners for Pagula and Pagula was not making errors but she just couldn't find a way through Sabalenka Sabalenka was serving incredibly well she was getting the first strike in in the rallies most of the time and it was a brilliant performance and it just continued in in the second set again Sabalenka was the first one to go up a break and And at that point, I felt like, you know, maybe Pagula was feeling a little bit resigned to it because she felt like she was playing well.

22:21Catherine Whitaker: She was playing well. She wasn't doing an awful lot wrong. And yet she just had no answer, really. Sabalenka just kept her foot on the gas. Absolutely no sign of the stress and tension that's been bothering her for months. and in the early stages of this tournament, she was brilliant. Yeah, she said, I impressed me, to be honest. Sabalenka in a post-match press conference, she said, I felt like whatever decision I would make would be the right decision.

22:55David Law: What a great feeling to have. What does that feel like, Arena? Yeah, I mean, especially because that's so anti what she's clearly been feeling for months and the frustration's been written all over her face. And this is kind of the last chance of the year, Not to say that the year is over, but the slams are what matter to her at this stage of her career. And she just hasn't been there. The real Irina Sabalenka. And here she is. Just reminding us what a force she is. Max Murney, Mary Carilla was telling in commentary, Max Murney, one of her coaches, had said he wanted to see 70 % first serves in from Sabalenka today.

23:34David Law: So that there was a mixture. He didn't want to just go in after it full power. And for the vast majority of the match, it was 70 % and above, ended up at 64. But Pegula's was even higher, and it needed to be, because when she put the second serve in, she was barely winning points. Whole match, 26 % points won on her second serve. It was getting destroyed. I mean, look, there's a lot of players that would have had their second serves destroyed by Irina Sabalenka today, but that, I'm sure, would have been a source of frustration for Pegula. I'm just not sure really what she can do about it. Paguda joked in her press conference, Matt, about how maybe she'd angered Irina Sabalenka.

24:15And, you know, she said, I don't know why she and her team hate me or she hates me and my team. We're nice people. She was, you know, she was joking. But she was playing like she was angry. And, you know, maybe I've not totally read Irina Sabalenka. her wrong but kind of drawn the wrong conclusions from how I've interpreted her over the past couple of weeks like she is on edge she is a bit chippy she is trying to prove something that maybe doesn't need proving um but rather than it making her a bit over it all it's making her well in her own words desperate for the win she used that word i was desperate for the win today yeah i mean we

25:08Catherine Whitaker: talked about that that thin line that she always walks and i think we were probably all thinking she'd just be on the wrong side of it and it would it would spill over into frustration and errors and getting in her own way but actually what we've seen i think in certainly the last two matches since her draw has got tough against Noskova and Pagula, how she's actually used whatever pissed-off energy she's been feeling and channelled it into some absolutely brilliant tennis. I mean, this was a performance that belongs alongside the ones she's produced when she's kind of dominated at the Australian Open.

25:50Catherine Whitaker: You know, that's kind of what it felt like to me today. And there is this incredible stat from Opta that she's the first player, male or female, in the Open Era to reach eight consecutive Grand Slam finals on a hard court. That is what Rina Sabalenka has put together now, surpassing seven reached by Steffi Graf, Martina Hingis and Novak Djokovic. I mean, obviously, the Open Era, there have been times in the Open Era where the tournaments were played on that are now played on. hard court were played on grass or even clay here for a little bit but still that is an incredibly impressive feat and you know i think i think it does go to show how yes the tour form is very important and we can read a lot into that but she just deserves so much respect and credit for that grand slam record you know i've been been banging the drum for pagula this year because of her tour form well we saw the difference between them tonight in terms of just sabalenka's just got a level to go to that most players can't reach and she she saves it for these for these hard court majors that is where she plays her best stuff and once again she's she's doing it at the u.s open four consecutive finals at the u.s open you know the the end of season major where Everyone's tired and exhausted, and it feels like it should be really hard to be consistent here, and yet Sabalenka is the most consistent player here.

27:28It feels unfair to draw too many Pagula conclusions from this match because I feel like anybody and everybody would have lost to this version of Arena Sabalenka tonight. But as the Pagula guy, Matt, how do you feel about Pagula generally can you see a world where you're picking her to win another Grand Slam in the future not just putting her in the mix I'm sure we'll put her in mixes but picking her to win one

28:00Catherine Whitaker: can I see a world where I'm wrong again in the future absolutely I can definitely see that getting carried away by something I mean that whole pick was predicated on a lot of things that didn't end up happening.

28:17David Law: You're making it worse.

28:18Catherine Whitaker: You know, like, as I said, I thought Sapolenka might be, for once, burnt out by the US Open because I really thought that she was going to have a strong French Open and Wimbledon, and that totally didn't happen. Then I thought she'd be playing this tournament without her best form because of what we've seen over the past few months. That didn't happen either. And, yeah, like, I'm not deluded enough to think that Pagula at her best is better than Savalenka at her best. And if you told me that Savalenka was going to play her best, I wouldn't have thought that Pagula would beat her. But look, I think generally, as you said, she's probably going to keep being in mixes for Grand Slams.

29:07Catherine Whitaker: I think she must look at some of the people that have won Grand Slams and think, God, I'm right there with them most of the time. Why can't I break through? That's kind of been part of how I've seen it. She's got several shots a year, I would say, because she's good on the grass as well, and she's good on the two hard-court majors, so she's constantly giving herself chances. But, yes, there remains people... As much as I do think Pagula can kind of beat anyone, you know, like, generally, it doesn't take a huge drop-off for Pagula to be able to beat someone. There also remains a few people who just have a ceiling, I think, that is higher than Pagula, and, yeah, normally one of those people show up at the slam with that ceiling, and Pagula can't get through, but, you know, I don't think she's going to go away.

30:04We'll have more chance tomorrow to properly preview the women's final, which will be played night session on Saturday. But do you agree with my sort of slightly glib take that, although I do stand by it, that this will be a bit of a grudge match, certainly for Sabalenka? Sabalenka wants to prove I am still the best player in the world. You might have taken my crown, but it is my crown that you've temporarily borrowed.

30:34Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I think so. I do think the main motivation, though, is... Not being slamless. Yeah, not being slamless. She talked about if it was going to be Coco in the final, she would want revenge because of what happened here a few years ago in the final. I think she will want revenge on Rebecca for the Australian Open final as well. I think there's a lot that goes into it. but yeah I think that could be a good thing for Sabalenka to channel that given everything we've just said like she can channel those sorts of things in an incredibly effective way so yeah like go for it Arena and bring that energy to the final or probably serve her well.

31:23David Law: She is an alpha she wants to be the one she wants to be number one she wants to be the most powerful player on the court she doesn't want to be knocked around by somebody else she just cannot deal with that so she's going to go out there and try to take your head off and the thing with Rebecca is she can quietly stand up to it her I mean even if even if it's just a sort of cleanliness of ball strike she's able to kind of rebound and retaliate against that power and she's able to inject her own so she I think has this ability to send Sabalenka sometimes over the edge make her so frustrated because there's somebody down the other end who's doing what she's supposed to be doing so I personally wouldn't use grudge match as the word but I think it's on Sabalenka's side she's the one who wants to prove to everybody all these things I don't think Rebecca is built like that But I think it's a one-sided grudge match, definitely.

32:30David Law: Yes, I think Rebecca just wants to win the title and just wants to... I think she loves winning. She loves being a perfectionist. She loves this quiet competition, the way she goes about it, but it's tenacious as well. And, yeah, I'm endlessly fascinated by what's going on in her head when she's playing because I can't read anything other than the little bits of frustration here and there. But, yeah, they do tend to have great mashes. They do. So I'm hopeful.

33:03Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, their Indian Wells final is maybe the match of the year, certainly up there. Their two Australian Open finals have been very compelling as well. I think the first one was better, but this year's was good too. And, yeah, I can't wait. It's a brilliant Grandstand final to have ahead of us. And I do like the different ways they produce their power. I always find that really great to watch, the effortful nature of Arena Sabalenka's and the more effortless nature of Rabatkin's is a great contrast. And there'll be no worries about anyone needing to settle. there's not even really a big sort of crowd element you know like I I think Sabalenka might be the slight favorite for the crowd but equally I think I think so I think some people get a bit of a kick out of seeing Skrambalenka and when the errors come that that can be quite compelling for people as well so it'll just it'll just be a a tennis match and you know maybe maybe there's part of me that would have absolutely loved to have an American crowd as a factor in the final.

34:24Catherine Whitaker: But this is fine too. And yeah, I really am struggling to call it, actually. You won't be surprised to hear our predictions for tonight.

34:33David Law: Probably best place to stay. You'll find us on the fence for the foreseeable. I mean, we always say this, it's a great session, isn't it? Two high stakes, women's best of three matches. That works in a night session finished at about 11.15 and how it hasn't caught on to the rest of the tournament and the rest of all the tournaments and also tomorrow where we have a men's five set match in the afternoon and then one in the evening how has that not caught on to be what everybody does if they have night sessions, it's beyond me well because they can sell two separate sessions the answer is always money but I still think you can sell two separate sessions.

35:15David Law: For your night session, you have two best of three matches and one or one best of five. And there's no issue. The problem is, for example, last night, one best of five set match, it was a dud. And people leave disappointed. There's so much more variance in length with a best of five set match than there is with a best of three, that you... It's difficult to rely just on that and not account for... There's no guarantee with professional sports. No. But there are, as I say, there's more variants with best of five and that's the problem. They have to plan for it not being enough and then we end up here at 3am.

36:00David Law: I don't think they do have to plan for it, personally. Nor do I, but that's how they view it. That's how it's viewed. You know what my solution to the problem would be? Okay, We'll come back in part three and talk about those two best of five set men's singles semifinals.

36:20Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

37:10quick and easy to list those pieces. There's no selling fees and suddenly those clothes have a chance to find someone who actually wants them. And the best part, you're making room for whatever you're into next. Make money on Depop with no selling fees and find what you want for less. This message is brought to you by Depop.

37:30Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Just before we get into previewing the two men's single semifinals tomorrow, the Coco Gough press conference has dropped. She seems pretty philosophical I mean gutted as we expected but her ability to kind of process and have perspective in a very short space of time is it's pretty unmatched really um she's she's talking about how the other three semi-finalists are a few years older than her and thinking about the the amount of improvement she can make in the space of those three or four years that she's She's got on all of them. So, yeah, look, it's gutting because she makes very clear in the press conference that her season centres around the US Open, as much as she cares about the other mages, this is the biggest one for her.

38:20So, yeah, it's, you know, she's sad, but she'll be OK.

38:27David Law: Tough thing on a Saturday, I think, for a player like her. And Pegula, you know, to just not be in that final, you know, to desperately want to be in it and not to be. I wonder whether they watch it. I imagine they probably don't. You know, you have to try. I mean, I was listening to Taylor Fritz the other day and just wanted to get away from it all for a couple of days. But I don't think it takes them long to get back working hard, these players. OK, looking ahead to tomorrow. And as we thought might happen, they have switched up the order of the two men's single semifinals to make sure that the All-American clash between Francis Tiafoe and Ben Shelton is in the primetime night session slot.

39:15It's not a shock. It is something that has happened once before, and that one previous occasion was when there was an All-American semifinal.

39:24Matt Roberts: So we kind of saw this coming, but it does mean that from midday on the Arthur Ashe Stadium, it is the women's doubles final. The top seeds, Katarina Siniarkova and Taylor Townsend, going up against the all-American pair of Ashton Kruger and Robin Montgomery, and that is followed not before 3pm by Alexander Zverev and Karen Hashanov. What percentage chance do you give Hashanov here, David?

39:49David Law: I think on paper I'd give him about a 40 % chance, something like that. Based on the form that the two of them have been in of late, I don't think Zverev's looked that convincing at this tournament. Khashanov has beaten him before on a hard court, and I think he's playing pretty much as well as he can play, Khashanov, at the moment. Never know which sort of player he's going to come out on in a big semifinal. He's tended to come up short when he's played these matches before. A little bit like Jessica Pegula. Has he got another level that he can tap into? because I certainly think that Zverev's got a level that probably Hashanov doesn't have.

40:36David Law: But I just think it's, like I said, I think about 60-40, I actually think in reality it may end up being closer than that. I think I fancy the upset in this one. Would you both agree that it perhaps favours Hashanov a little bit in the semi-final, that it's day session rather than night session, but if Zverev gets through it, this being day session, and then favours him for the final, which would also be day session.

41:04Catherine Whitaker: Definitely, yes. I think it will be a shock to the system for Zverev playing in the day. I imagine as well, he's probably been... Well, I know he's been practising late as well. He just hasn't been hitting at that sort of time for two weeks. And he talked about how he's been feeling jet-lagged, and he's going to have to override all of that and be ready for three o 'clock tomorrow, which is so many hours before he's used to playing at this tournament. I have to say I don't think he really liked those night conditions, though. I think they're hot and sticky. It felt like he was a bit uncomfortable in those conditions.

41:48Catherine Whitaker: Like me right now. If he can adjust, make the body adjustment, maybe he can actually get his tennis going a little bit more. I think he's going to do that thing of playing well enough to win. I'm not really expecting, from where he's been this tournament, I don't think we're suddenly going to see Wimbledon form from Zverev. I'd be very surprised if that happened. That's the thing, he was playing that way all the way through Wimbledon, wasn't he? Yeah, exactly. That was one of the best tournaments he's ever played, for sure. The French Open was a bit more like this, where, OK, he wasn't getting dragged into the really, really long matches that he had at the front end of this tournament there, but he wasn't fully convincing, and he had a pretty kind draw, and he made the most of it, and that's similar to what he's done here.

42:41Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, it was Mensik in the semis at Roland Garros. It's Hachinov here. I could just see something similar. And, you know, for Hachinov, if he gets in a winning position, he's going to have to close. and closing out anyone to get to your first grandstand final is tough. Closing out Zverev, who you know is just going to keep being there, is very tough as well. So I'm expecting a four or five set win for Zverev, but I do think Hachinov has a chance. Is there an argument based on the head-to-heads that Karen Hashanov is the man left in the draw of the other three with the biggest chance to beat Alexander Zverev?

43:31David Law: I think there is an argument, and it also feeds into that point about the time zone slot that he's playing tomorrow and then getting used to it for the final. His record against both Tiafoe and Shelton is exemplary. he just doesn't lose to left-handers I mean I can think of two that he's ever lost to Lernity and Rafael Nadal and only Nadal over best of five yeah and then there is Tiafoe who he's always pretty much had his way with and whereas he's lost two or three matches against Khachanov right-hander, bull of a man who's just going to grind. Put it this way, I think if Hashinov plays against the player that Zverev has been for most of this tournament, I think Hashinov will win.

44:28David Law: But he might not. He might play way better than that. He may play more like the Wimbledon form or the guy that we've seen reach Australian Open Finals, and that will beat Hashinov. But I'm not convinced that that tennis is there just at the moment. So, yeah, I'm going for the upset.

44:47Matt Roberts: night session, the big one, certainly for the locals. Francis Tiafoe against Ben Shelton, 7pm under the lights on the Arthur Ashe Stadium. What do you think the match is going to look like? Who do you think is going to win? Who do you think the crowd is going to be with, Matt?

45:03Catherine Whitaker: It's a very interesting question about the crowd. I don't know. Who have they been with when they've played here before? I'm not fully sure. I think they're just into it, aren't they? I don't know if there is a favourite, really. I think historically, Tiafoe has it here. He's built the relationship with the crowd here. He had that moment. Shelton's newer. He's still building that relationship. But he had that match two nights ago, which accelerated that build. I mean, a lot of people were asleep. Because no one in America saw it because they're all asleep. But they've seen the headlines. And I think that definitely did have cut through.

45:41Catherine Whitaker: And that performance from Shelton to beat Alcraz is why I'm going with Shelton in this one. There's absolutely the big question mark of going again and backing up that win. You know, he's felt like he's climbed the mountain and he still hasn't, he's still got two more rounds to go. You know, that is a tall order. I think for some players I would be really worried about the recovery from that and how physical that match was and how late it finished. I do think the extra day and then playing again at night and just how incredibly physically strong I think Ben Shelton is. I have fewer worries for him.

46:26Catherine Whitaker: I think I'm just going with him because of the way he stood up to Alcaraz in big moments. I think his ground stroke baseline game has come on, leaps and bounds. and I just really trusted the business-like face and mode that he's had on in the last couple of rounds, especially against Alcaraz. I think his ceiling is a little bit higher than even Tiafoe playing some of the best tennis of his career. So I'm going to go Shelton. David?

47:02David Law: Yeah, well, I chose Shelton to win the tournament. to the outset and I'm not going to change that. Obviously, I had my little detour when I thought Alcraz was going to beat him because of what I'd been sort of tempted into seeing by Alcraz's amazingness. I think I've seen that both of their previous matches, I really remember them quite well. I think Tiafek... Yeah, yeah.

47:24Matt Roberts: Amazing that this will be their third meeting here in... You know, Shelton's only been on tour. This is fourth year on tour.

47:31David Law: Yeah, yeah. It was the first year that he was really on the tour. they played each other and and tiafa came out really flat and and it was such a surprise to see the vibes guy getting totally upstaged he'd had his moment the year before against soundcraft in that match and and i always remember him saying you know i'm looking forward to getting out there and ben will put his big bug bugs bunny ears on and we can go and put on a show and unfortunately for tiafa we just came out so flat and then a couple of years later they played and tiafa was a completely different guy. He did go down two sets to one in that, but managed to pull it back and win it in five.

48:08David Law: The next year, I think it was.

48:09Matt Roberts: So, 23. Yeah.

48:12David Law: Yes, that's right. 24 was the other one. Because last year, he lost to Jan Lennar Struff, and he was in a terrible state. They did play on US hard courts last year in Washington. Shelton won that one. Yeah, I just feel similar to Madden. I think the ceiling is higher for Shelton, and I think that serve can just win you so many cheap points. I think he's hitting the ball with such confidence right now. I think he kind of blunts quite a lot of what Tiafoe does because he can stand up to him in the trade now, maybe in a way that he couldn't in the past. He's got the speed to chase down Tiafoe's drop shots if he's going to start hitting those.

48:50David Law: So I'm not quite sure how Tiafoe hurts him in quite the same way that he hurts other players. So, yeah, Shelton for me. If it is Verov in the final, who would he rather play?

49:03Catherine Whitaker: It's such a good question because of the lefty thing. The answer should be Tiafoe, right? It should be, but the lefty thing is so big. I think he'd rather... Well, the answer should be Shelton of who he would rather play because of the leftiness, I think. But actually, I think he'd rather play Tiafoe. I think this Shelton is different to the Shelton that Zverev's played before. The leftiness is still a thing, but I think this Tiafoe is a little bit different from the one he's played before, but I think the difference is bigger with Shelton. You know, like, he beat Alcaraz. He faced down Carlos Alcaraz.

49:44Catherine Whitaker: I know it wasn't... In a fifth set. It wasn't total peak Alcaraz, but it was a very good Alcaraz for parts of that match, including in the fifth set, and Shelton beat him.

49:55David Law: And he was getting stronger physically as the match went on, and he's just added to his game. He's got so many shots now and I think he might find ways of keeping away from the patterns that have beaten him so comprehensively by Zverev in the past. And the crowd? For Tiafos, Shelton? Yeah. I think it'll be split.

50:19Matt Roberts: I kind of hope they're not split. I kind of want them... Don't really mind who they're with. Pick a lane. Pick a lane, yeah. Give us a vibe. Honestly, I think whoever's behind...

50:27David Law: I don't want it to be awkward. But they'll be cheering the other guy to make a comeback and make it an epic. Just longer, more. I think they just want to have a fun time. I mean, some people will be passionately behind one or the other, but I think the numbers of them will be pretty evenly split. Can you imagine how many celebrities are going to be in that you haven't heard of, David? I mean, you were reeling them off to me. You were sitting behind me, and every time one came up on the screen, I turned around to Catherine, and Catherine told me who it was. and then I had to find out, yeah, now, is that a band or is that a person?

50:59Scissor was a real head scratcher for David.

51:03Catherine Whitaker: We had to have a pronunciation guide for that one. And the thing is, I've got most... You knew Michelle Obama, folks, to be clear.

51:09David Law: Yes, I did, first time. Didn't even have to ask. And for the majority, I've got them listed, so I'm going to Google them, and then when I'm talking to my kids, they're going to think I'm really cool because I know all about these people. Rosalia? Yeah. I can't quite remember who that one is. But, yeah, and Matt Futterman and me were talking about Rosalia because he wasn't sure on Rosalia either.

51:29Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I saw Matt Futterman Googling Rosalia.

51:32David Law: He said, I know, because I said to him, do you know any of these people? Because, you know, he and I are not dissimilar ages, but he's from this neck of the woods, isn't he? If these were British people, I'd know all of them. No, I wouldn't. But anyway, he seemed to know far more of them than I did. In fact, I know zero of them. I think it's going to be star-studded tomorrow night. I'll be so pumped if I do recognise anybody. I think it'll be less star-studded tomorrow day session.

52:01Catherine Whitaker: I think that's fair to say. Yes.

52:07Matt Roberts: OK, folks, we'll be back tomorrow at the end of those two men's singles semifinals to talk about them. We'll talk about the women's doubles final as well. We'll talk about the other tournaments as well that have been going on that we have been keeping an eye on. but, well, I haven't had the bandwidth to bring you up to date with, quite frankly, but we will over the course of the final few days of this US Open, don't you worry, and we'll look ahead to the women's singles final on Saturday as well. Let's say a big hello to Leo, who had the popcorn out for tonight's women's singles semifinals. He says women's semis is the best day always, and Leo had his popcorn at the ready for some high-quality matches.

52:48We hope you enjoyed that, Leo. What a high-quality photo shoot dog Leo is. Talk about raising the bar for pet mascots.

52:58David Law: There are no limits. Absolutely extraordinary. It's the Arena Savalenka of dog photos.

53:02Matt Roberts: Is this a private tennis court that they're taking these photos on? I have so many questions. So many props involved. Extraordinary stuff. Hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, shall we have some shout-outs? it's not pre-midnight.

53:23Catherine Whitaker: Well, no, we are past my curfew, but the thing I didn't say is that it's also to do with how close to missing the bus we are. And we've actually got some time before the bus, so we're going to do shout-outs. We're going to get through three more. And we start with Anna Bendo from Dublin, Ohio. Hi, Anna. Hello, Anna. Anna says, I've been a listener since 2018 and my husband and I are coming to Wimbledon next year so I can start my first leg of the fan slam and celebrate our 50th birthdays. Oh, so cool. We met somebody today that was completing the calendar fan slam of women's semifinal sessions.

54:06Shout out, Sharice.

54:07David Law: I'm not sure we've heard a slam quite as cool as that. Incredible stuff. But yeah, any kind of fan slam is a wonderful thing and Anna, we wish you well in your journey.

54:21Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Anna, like Anna Kaninskaya on Bjorn Fratangelo's backhand list. Very good. And Dublin, like where Matt and I went to see Bruce Springsteen. By the way, there's... Yeah, although this is Dublin, Ohio. Well, yeah, but... I would have gone there as well to see Bruce Springsteen.

54:36David Law: There was a moment when you shouted something out about the backhand list during the Rebacchner against Coco. It was in Jess. You said Rebacchner was off the backhand list very loudly when she made an error. Oh, she didn't miss a couple of baddens.

54:50Catherine Whitaker: It's because Matt Futterman was questioning whether Rebecca was on it, and I said, yes, of course. And then she missed the backhand, and I was like, oh, she's off now.

55:00David Law: I thought we'd got a big moment for news.

55:03Catherine Whitaker: No, no, no, no. I'm not going to knock someone off the backhand unless they've just made a major final and become world number one. That would have been absolutely insane.

55:13David Law: That would be a reality check for her, wouldn't it?

55:17Catherine Whitaker: Thank you, Anna. We also have Celeste Byrne from Sydney, Australia. Hello, Celeste. Hi, Celeste. We don't know anything else about Celeste.

55:28David Law: Sydney, Australia. I've been watching Melbourne, Australia tonight because that's where the LA Rams were getting a good duffing up.

55:36Matt Roberts: Do you know, on the stairs down from... We were in a logjam with people getting down from the top of Arthur Ashe Stadium. this evening and the woman in front of me as we were queuing to go down the stairs had the NFL game up on her phone and they did a wide shot of the MCG and you could see the Rod Laver arena in this wide shot so here we are at the Arthur Ashe Stadium where Craig Tiley is the tournament director looking on a screen where there's NFL happening in Melbourne next to the Rod Laver

56:07David Law: it was just so wrong I felt upside down there are 100 ,000 people that were loving it So, you know, that was right. And obviously the LA Rams lost. That was also right. Celeste, I hope you'll have enjoyed this workaround of not knowing anything about you and not knowing any tennis players called Celeste.

56:28Matt Roberts: Thank you very much for being a friend of the pod.

56:30Catherine Whitaker: Great name. And finally, we have Mark A. Prince Jr. from New York. Hey, right, Mark. Hello, Mark. Mark says, as a fan, I've completed the career golden slam. saw Agassi win the gold medal at the 96 Atlanta Games and the calendar year slam, which Mark did in 2019. That is good.

56:54David Law: Prince like the rackets. Yes.

56:57Matt Roberts: How are we spelling Prince? Is it like Freddie Prince Jr.? Yeah. With a Z? No. It's Prince like the racket. Right, OK. I think Freddie Prince Jr. is with a Z.

57:11Catherine Whitaker: Oh, OK.

57:12David Law: And the artist formerly known as? Yes. The late Prince. That spelling. And Mark like? With a K. Yeah, like Mark Filipousis. Yeah.

57:25Catherine Whitaker: And Knowles.

57:29David Law: Jessica Begula's coach.

57:31Matt Roberts: Mark, Celeste and Anna, thank you very much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. Just before we go, if you are an NFL fan like David, then the Athletic has got this really cool, new, exciting thing that has already started because the NFL season has already started. It's the Athletic Live. It's presented by Google Gemini and it's their brand new watch along on NFL game days. It's got all of their biggest and best beat reporters involved and you can become part of the show in the interactive chat on YouTube. and it all has already started. It started on September 8th. So do get involved with that.

58:07Matt Roberts: I did. The Athletic Live, did you?

58:09David Law: Yeah, yeah, I got in when Seahawks were making their massive comeback last night.

58:13Matt Roberts: We were recording a podcast while that was happening.

58:16David Law: Multi-screening, Catherine. That's what the kids do these days. I'll have words with you about that.

58:22Matt Roberts: We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will be back tomorrow. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you then.

58:33Hi, it's Brooke DeVard, host of Naked Beauty, and I want to talk about how I upgrade my hosting experience. There's a moment just before guests arrive when my home stops feeling like a series of rooms and it becomes an atmosphere. The light settles, the air shifts, and then the beautiful scent of jasmine, rose, and fig fill the air. It feels warm and considered. That's what Pura does. It turns fragrance into environment. A collection of beautiful, clean fragrances, all controlled from your phone. Choose your sense of place at Pura.com. The Savvy CIO is a podcast for IT leaders who know the future moves fast and that budget moves just a little bit slower.

59:08The CIO is one of the loneliest roles in the company. And yet, now more than ever, we're turning the pressure into practical takeaways you can use, whether it's Monday morning or Sunday at 2 a.m. Brought to you by Park Place Technologies, people who understand that innovation isn't about spending more money. It's about spending smarter and freeing up budget where it counts. So innovation doesn't have to wait. Thank you.