US Open Day 15 - Alcaraz has final answer, Sinner seeks change

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1:14Enjoy!

1:25Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the tennis podcast on the 15th and final day of the US Open here in Flushing Meadows, New York. a day that has seen 22-year-old Carlos Alcaraz lift his sixth Grand Slam and second US Open trophy with a four-set win over rival Yannick Sinner, in so doing reclaiming the world number one position. He truly has gone from bald to blooming. I had to. I had to. Throughout the course of what he himself has just described in a press conference we have just come from as the best tournament that he has ever played. Before we get any further, thank you to Alex for introducing today's Statastic show.

2:17Matt Roberts: No pressure, Matt. And a very big happy birthday to David Law. Hey.

2:24David Law: Thank you very much. Yeah.

2:25Matt Roberts: David, my birthday gift to you, or rather maybe your own birthday gift to yourself, a while ago, was a correct prediction, both ahead of the final and ahead of the tournament. You always felt like this was Carlos Alcaraz's title to win. Was today the performance that you were expecting to see from him?

2:50David Law: Pretty much, yeah. Except I didn't see the drop-off coming in set two. I thought it might... I mean, I said four sets, but I was really... My sort of gut was telling me three sets because just of how convincing he's looked to me, apart from semifinals day when the standard Novak Djokovic freakout occurred, I actually have thought that he would win this title since the first game of the Cincinnati final. I think he broke serve in the first game of the Cincinnati final, and I accept that Yannick Sinner, we would discover within a couple of games, was short physically, but there was just something about the convincing nature with which Alcaraz was hitting the ball in the rallies with Sinner that day that looked a bit different to me.

3:47David Law: it didn't look like he was trying tricks it didn't look like he was trying variety for variety's sake it didn't look like he needed to fall back on the variety it looked to me like he was happy to stand toe to toe with him and say I can handle you and that's not to say that he would have done against a fully fit Sinner that day but that just gave me pause for thought I thought okay I think I said at the time Alcaz is going to win one of these next two matches that they play at Cincinnati or the US Open assuming they play both. And at the time, the sort of received wisdom, and I think what all of us thought generally is that, well, Sin is the better hard-court player, so that doesn't seem likely, and now he's just beaten him at Wimbledon.

4:32David Law: And then when he shaved his head, I know it was an accident initially, but the moment he shaved his head and the way he was going about his business in this tournament just looked like a new player to me. It looked like something I've not seen before.

4:45Matt Roberts: Hang on, jokes aside, do you think the mistake with the machine, Alvaro's mistake with the machine, actually was a factor in Alcaraz's victory here?

4:54David Law: I mean, I don't know what plan A was with the hair. I kind of would love to know what that was. But I genuinely think that it helped focus his mind. Everybody's talking about this hair. And when you look in the mirror and see that hair, how can you not be pumped? It's just so crazily... And bald and pumped. It's marine-like. It's I'm ready to go to war. I know it's an exaggeration, but in a tennis sense, I'm ready to go and battle. And I just think he felt business-like all the way through. You know what he's like? He's a little cuddly bear of a man, isn't he? And he believes this stuff, I'm sure of it.

5:37David Law: He goes with his gut, and I'm sure when he saw himself in the mirror, he thought, I'm ready to go every day. And that bore out.

5:44Matt Roberts: bit of a blow for the hard-hitting tennis analysis that Matt has inevitably prepared for this podcast

5:50Catherine Whitaker: that we're going with I don't know I was cooking up a sort of Carlos Alcaraz's tennis the art and

5:57Matt Roberts: Alvaro the artist oh okay we're all on the same page yeah I just okay I mean I have thought it

6:04David Law: all the way through the tournament and there's just been little flickers with Sinner where I've been not entirely convinced in the way that I was at Wimbledon it it is gut at the time I mean look and you got can be wrong I've got loads of things wrong as we know but when we got to the eve of Wimbledon final I think we were all thinking Sinner just looks the more convincing and and and also I do believe in this thing of who won the last one what's the other guy going to do about it and I mean these guys you know will get onto the press conferences but they have put that into words in in the more explicit way than i ever thought i would hear but but it it makes total sense to me when you've got two players that are at the stratospheric levels these two are who have separated themselves from the rest and i'm not going to include novak jokovic in that because he's 38 he deserves a pass from that the rest of them by comparison are duffers you know they're really really good players but if you're comparing like for like these two have just separated themselves and they are judging themselves by each other they are planning for each other every week of their lives and if they can do that then they can beat all the others because it's about this guy and and i just think that this is what's happened over the course of the year it's it they pass the baton on to each other because they keep raising the stakes

7:27Matt Roberts: my favorite thing is when david says duffers and listen i know that sounds terrible and it's and

7:33David Law: And look, people like Taylor Fritz and all the other players, they're really good players, right? Yeah, they're doing their best. It's just like for like is what I'm saying. I mean, we just had a look at the rankings. And what is it, 5 ,000 point differential between the top two and the rest?

7:50Catherine Whitaker: I mean, what's that? I just don't feel like speaking. David's just on such a roll.

7:58Matt Roberts: Let's have David say Duffers some more.

8:03Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, I mean, I thought Alcouras would win today. I didn't feel like David before the tournament. I think I was more in on, you know, Sinner's just beating him at Wimbledon. Sinner's the best hardcourt player in the world. I thought coming into this tournament that Sinner would win. But as the tournament went on, I did change my mind on that. But I thought it would be closer than this. I was less convinced than you two that he would be able to do what David's described there in terms of going toe-to-toe with Sinner and beating him in that way without the spectacular. You know, Alcresa Tennis is always spectacular, but what I mean there is without that magic, without that stardust, no, he didn't need that today.

8:49Catherine Whitaker: This was just the level that he's brought to this tournament, and it was far, far superior. I think, you know, I'm sure we'll get more into the match, but Yannick Sinner wasn't quite as good today as I thought he was going to be. And I'm sure a lot of that is because of how good Carlos Alcres was. But I was expecting the Sinner that showed up for a run of games in the second set to show up a little bit more today. But from an Alcres perspective, you know, we we highlighted it all tournament. the serve is what continues to just absolutely blow me away. If Alex wants a stat, I'm going to give you a serve stat right at the start here.

9:35Catherine Whitaker: Every other slam that he's won in his career, he'd lost his serve at least 11 times, Carlos Alcaraz. Three of the slams that he'd won, he'd lost serve over 20 times through the tournament. He lost serve three times this whole tournament.

9:53Matt Roberts: And one of those was when he had jarred his knee and kind of doesn't count because he was panicking.

10:00Catherine Whitaker: Pete Sampras is the other guy who has won slams, only losing serve three times. And Yannick Sinner had one break point today. Yannick Sinner won. like you know we all went big on serve bar Alcaraz during the grass court season didn't we and it didn't quite come off for him there in that Wimbledon final against Sinner when we thought the serve was going to be massive for him but all the development that he's done on his serve throughout this season is coming to fruition in this tournament that was like the foundational block I think for his tennis and everything else which David's talked about flowed from there for me that would be my big one bit of important part of his game that was firing that serve unbelievable

10:56Matt Roberts: 6-2, 3-6, 6-1 6-4 was the scoreline four set matches can feel so different can't they they can feel uber competitive and uber close and totally in the balance at various different stages of the match. How much in the balance did this match really feel? I know this is easy to say in hindsight, but my feeling was that even when Yannick Sinner had won that second set, Alcaraz felt fully in charge. There wasn't ever a moment where I didn't think Alcaraz was going to win this. I know that's easy to say in hindsight, but that was my read on the match. How do you feel about that?

11:46David Law: My sense is I did feel that it was in balance because of the scoreline at one set all in as much as I really expected Sinner not to win that second set when it started off. The manner in which he'd manhandle Sinner in the first set, 6-2, and he'd done it by saying, come on, toe-to-toe, let's play Yannick Sinner tennis, shall we?

12:11Matt Roberts: That wasn't a misleading scoreline. 6-2 was, if anything, flattering to Yannick Sinner. He dismantled him in that first set. And that wasn't just about the serve.

12:20David Law: That was, let's go toe-to-toe and see who comes out on top. I'm ready to do it. And actually, the biggest concern I had in that set on Alcaz's behalf is when he played the most worldy of low backhand drop volleys that one of the best shots I've ever seen. And it was when he was already 3-1 up, and I think he went to love 30, and he hit this shot, this stop volley off his ankles, off a missile, and he just turned around and he smiled, and you saw him mouth, wow. It was an incredible moment. And it was just an amazing moment, and then he lost the next three points, and he lost the game, and he was only 3-2 up.

12:58David Law: And then he held for 4-2, and I thought, OK, he's fine. And then he went toe-toe again, and he won the next two games. It was an amazing spell of tennis. Probably the best tennis that I've seen over the course of an entire set from Carlos Alcraz. The tie-break at the French Open will always be the moment that I think we look at and think that, OK, we're now playing a different sport altogether. But that is a 10-point tie-break. This was a set of 6-2. The second set, he started off the better as well. I mean, he was putting pressure on right at the start of it. And then he just started to lose his way a bit.

13:32David Law: And the big thing was that Sinner decided to really go after his shots. And with every shot, it was almost like faking to making. It was almost Tim Henman's stuff with the clenched fist. Because after every single point he won from the first game onwards, he was turning around with his fist clenched, looking over at Darren Cahill and Sabanio Vagnacic and looking even over at Carlos Alcraz, I think, and trying to say, I'm here, I'm not going away, I'm coming for you. And I thought, fair play to you, you know, he's not going to lie down here. It was almost like the first set, Carlos Alcraz did a Yannick Sinner impersonation, and in the second set, Yannick Sinner did a Carlos Alcraz impersonation, because he even did finger celebrations to the ear.

14:15David Law: It was like he was trying to get something else out of him, some adrenaline whipped up. And at that stage, at one set all, he's lost his first set of the entire championship, Alcraz. and I did think, okay, I maybe have gone too far with this and maybe this just becomes another one of their classics. And then Alcaraz won the next five games. And the match was over for me there. Obviously, he's about to go two sets to one up, but it just felt like Sinner was almost having to do the pulling rabbits out of hats stuff that his opponent does because the base game that normally dominates wasn't quite there.

14:55Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I agree with that. I did feel that one said, oh, like this was in the balance. But those five games that David references went by in a flash. Alcaraz went up five love in that third set. And at that point, it felt like he had such authority on the match. Alcaraz. it was a strange match because I think if you look back on it if you watch your highlights package it will look phenomenal there were some absolutely stunning moments particularly from Alcarez Sinner had a couple himself but what I think makes a great match is that those shots need to happen when there's jeopardy in the scoreline that was what was so incredible about that French Open final.

15:46Catherine Whitaker: As the match got tighter, the shots got better. You know, the tennis scoring system provides the framework for the drama of the match.

15:56Matt Roberts: It's like you always say, if it's one o 'clock in the morning, the tennis is going to be great.

16:00Catherine Whitaker: Right, because it's deep in a fifth set and all that kind of thing. Whereas what I think was slightly lacking from this match as a spectacle was that as soon as someone went ahead in a set, there was no break back you know like the first break in each set ended up being the decisive break and it you know Alcrest broke multiple times in some of the sets and raced ahead but it kind of like there were these great moments in terms of tennis but there weren't these there weren't very many what felt like pivotal games and pivotal just moments in the match I don't know it just it left me it left me wanting a little bit more in that sense but I think that's just because Alcaraz was too good like this trilogy of Grand Slam finals they've played now Sinner was too good at Wimbledon the French Open they were both unbelievable and today Alcaraz was too good and that's kind of how we ended up with this four set win like I really enjoyed the highs of it but as a sort of guy who wanted a really competitive let's see them both pushing each other to to greater and greater heights I just felt like we didn't quite get that one from from this match but that's fine it was it was still better than a lot of other grandstand finals and still like the electricity and the and the level they were bringing was just so different to anything else in the men's draw that we'd seen all tournament it's still still stood out to me yeah it looked

17:44Matt Roberts: like a different sport to anything else we've seen in the men's men's tournament thus far they are they're playing a different sport these two and yet this wasn't this absolutely wasn't a classic I agree with you. I think if you're catching up with this and you watch the highlights, I think they will probably be quite misleading in terms of how it actually felt to be there. And look, there are a lot of reasons why today was a bit weird and we'll come on to those. But just in terms of the match, I was kind of struggling to make cohesive sense of it all beyond the point of what Alcaraz is just playing unbelievably.

18:20Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

18:20Matt Roberts: But the press conferences that we've just been to, So Carlos Alcaraz, Yannick Sinner and Juan Carlos Ferreiro, David, who came in to kind of help fill the time while we were waiting for Carlos Alcaraz. Thank you, Juan Carlos. They have really helped me make sense of this match. They were some incredibly illuminating press conferences.

18:43David Law: Well, Juan Carlos Ferreiro said in a question I asked him about what they did after Wimbledon because I was pretty shook by that Wimbledon final. I was taken by how comprehensive that win was. I know it's four sets and Alcraste won the first, but he was four-tube down in that first set in that Wimbledon final and he kind of reeled off four games of genius in order to win that set, but he was never convincing. He was never his best self. And I thought Senna was awesome and just dissected him, really. And I did wonder after that, now what does Alcraste do? you know what does one Carlos Ferrero do you know where'd you go from here you've just you've shared these two grand sum finals but the one you won you've kind of pulled out of a hat because you were going to lose that one as well and the one you've lost you've got pretty comprehensively beaten and now you're going to play on Yannick Sinner's favorite surface and he's clearly the favorite so what what did they do well one Carlos Ferrero said we went straight out there and Because I thought they just had a holiday.

19:50David Law: But no, he said we spent 15 days planning for the next time we played against Yannick Sinner. Working on things, looking at his game, working on things specifically for this one player. And look, I'm sure by doing that you prepare yourself for everybody else. Because Sinner is so much better than all of them. So if it's going to work against Sinner, it'll work against the rest of them. and I think that is so interesting I don't think I've heard too many probably aside from Federer, Djokovic, Nadal maybe, players talk about a specific opponent Alphie Hewitt and Tiquito Oda is what it made me think of that's the only other example I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure Chrissie Everton and Martina Navratilova were like this those are the sort of rivalries we're talking about now.

20:44Matt Roberts: And it is kind of damning for the rest of men's tennis, isn't it? That like, I'm just going to train for this guy.

20:51David Law: Those duffers.

20:52Matt Roberts: Yeah, the duffers. Everybody wants

20:54David Law: to give due respect other than me. But everybody wants to give due respect to the rest of the field. And Alcruz was asked a question in the press conference about, you know, how different it is playing Sinner to playing everybody else. And he could feel himself about to maybe say something that might be considered and disrespectful to them and he pulled himself and he really didn't want to do that and the rest of the field don't deserve that but look, we also can't paper over the cracks of the fact that these two are way, way better than all the others, let's not pretend that's not the case so Ferrer's laid this out and I then did try to say can you tell us what you decided were the things that you needed and he said no I'm not going to tell you that.

21:44David Law: Simone might be watching, he said. Look, I completely understand that. And then Carlos himself came in, and I tried to put the same question to him, and I said, when did you first start to think about Yannick and how are you going to figure this out? Because one Carlos had explained to us that you went straight out to work on it, and he said, oh, as soon as the match was over. As soon as the match was over, I was already thinking about what I need to do. I had a holiday first for a week, but then I got to work. And I just thought, isn't this great? We're finding this out. But what Yannick Sinner told us was even more shocking.

22:23Matt Roberts: Right, because it sounds like he is right now, or was in that press conference, exactly where Carlos Alcárez has just described to us that he was after the Wimbledon final. His press conference was extraordinary, Yannick Sinner.

22:38Catherine Whitaker: it really was because he was asked quite a generic question about the future of the rivalry with

22:45Matt Roberts: yeah and he went in softball question yannick here you go and i think i may have like looked

22:52Catherine Whitaker: down at my phone or something oh this answer won't be won't be all that interesting but no he just went into great detail about his own game, describing it as predictable and talking about the fact that he needs to be more unpredictable as a player. He said he needs that against Carlos. He needs to be prepared to lose to become a better player. He wants to try stuff out. And it was really, really fascinating stuff For a guy who has been, you know, a pretty dominant world number one, to have won so much over the last couple of years, to be talking like that about his own game, really did emphasise the effect that I think this match in the moment had had on him, where he just realised he was well short against Carlos Alcarez.

23:54Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, I'm not convinced that he needs to do the wholesale changes that he's talking about there. Like, I think there's a very clear decline in one shot of Sinners over the last few months or so. And again, I'm going to sound boring, but it's the serve. He was at 48 % on his serve today, first serves in.

24:22David Law: And the final set was even more spectacular as a differential between the two. Alcaraz was at 72 % and Sinner was 36 % first serves in. Literally double.

24:39Catherine Whitaker: Well, that used to be an edge that Sinner had over Alcaraz. You know, his serve was such a foundation, it would then set up the rest of his game. It's the other way around at the moment. You know, Alcaraz is serving better, it's setting up the rest of his game. And I think we all probably think that Alcaraz, yes, does have more in his game, variety, changes of spin, changes of pace. So it's kind of even more important, therefore, that Sinner gets his serve working because he can't fall back on the other stuff quite so much. Like, yes, I think some added variety would be helpful for Yannick Sinner, but I do think to some extent he's already brought that in.

25:19Catherine Whitaker: But he was sort of saying that he wasn't feeling confident enough with it through the tournament and he wasn't using it like serve and volley or drop shots. And therefore he got to play in Carlos Alcaraz today and he didn't feel like he could bring any of that out because he hadn't been using it. He's not feeling good with that element at the moment, and therefore he was quite predictable. And he was, but I kind of think at his absolute best, in his predictability and his repeatability and his reliability, is his biggest strength and his edge over Carlos Alcaraz. The fact that he can keep hitting these laser ground strokes with such pace off both wings, backed up by a good serve.

26:04Catherine Whitaker: of like, okay, it won't always be enough to beat Carlos Alcarez, but at its best, he will beat Carlos Alcarez. It was interesting that he was having such seemingly existential doubts about his own game. He was having an existential crisis about his game, Yannick Senna.

26:21Matt Roberts: He wasn't sort of, he wasn't devastated and emotional in the way that, also outwardly emotional in the way that Amanda Anderson-Movil was yesterday in press or the way that, you know, beaten Grandstand finalists sometimes are. He sort of emotionally, he seemed very controlled. He's Yannick Sinner. You would expect that. But in terms of the way he was talking, it was like, I've got to hit the panic button here. It was, he said, he said, I'm a very solid baseliner, a big hitter. I'm a good player. That elicited a laugh from the room, like the way he said, I'm a good player. Kind of in a sort of slightly ironic, like I'm good but I'm not good enough and everyone was like

27:07David Law: mate

27:09Matt Roberts: you're Yannick's sinner

27:10David Law: it was almost like he was jealous of Carlos today yeah and he wanted to be like him and I do think that that was his version of a real emotional reaction to today and sort of looking at himself as if I'm rubbish I'm nowhere near as good as him look at all the stuff he can do I can't do that I don't want to be able to do that I do think it's straight after the match we've always got to factor that in and I do think he's fundamentally wrong because I don't think if he's serious I think he's going to be disappointed because he's not going to be able to turn himself into Carlos Alcaraz not the way Alcaraz has kind of been able to turn himself into Yannick Sinner today, it's easier for somebody with that array of skills if you can get the right mental approach to lock down and do one thing a lot better, serve and be more solid from the baseline, than it is for a player who's a great baseliner, well, the best baseliner as just a standard baseliner like Yannick Sinner, is to suddenly expect him to be able to do all the stuff that Alcras can, or to have that degree of variety.

28:26David Law: Maybe that's not what he's seeking. Maybe it is more incremental than that, really. And I think the incremental changes would make sense to be a little less predictable. And I already think he's added those things to his game over the last couple of years. But come on, Yannick. You know, I know this head-to-head looks like Siena has a problem with Alcaraz, but it really doesn't feel like that. One of them was a retirement. Another one, you had three championship points. He often looks like he hurries Alcaraz to me and causes Alcaraz trouble. I just I loved the line I'm prepared to lose some matches in order to become better at sort of this variety I kind of want to see that happen because I think it would be just a fascinating experiment but I don't think it's necessary I think you just need to get your game going again sort your serve out, make sure you're fresh and fit and ready to go you're going to lose some of these against this guy sure, but come on, you're right there

29:27Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, he had a line towards the end of the press conference saying, secret is patience. And I think that was just a little way of saying, it's not going to be a big change quickly. He had a funny quip about that, saying he's not going to be a lefty in Beijing, which was very amusing. But I think what he was getting at there is, yes, he is going to make some changes, but they might not be changes that you can really tell he's made unless you've got a very keen eye. He mentioned the serve again, didn't he? He said a couple of tweaks on the serve which can end up making a big difference. I think that is going to be a real area of focus for him.

30:08Catherine Whitaker: But it really was fascinating. There's back-to-back press conferences illustrating the various ways to which the other has lived in the other's head. I've never seen Cena like that before. Really interesting.

30:24Matt Roberts: Is this a new level that we can reasonably expect from Carlos Alcaraz from now on in terms of this consistency? The way he answered that question about it was put directly to him. Is this the best you've ever played? And there was no pause and quell. It was yes. Unequivocally, yes. he was busting to tell everybody, yeah, this is the best I've ever played in a tournament consistently and I'm really frigging proud of myself for that. Is it reasonable to expect this from now on from Carlos Alcraz at Grand Slam level or was the way he played this tournament for you specific to the circumstances or more specific to the circumstances?

31:13David Law: The reaction to Wimbledon is what I think has triggered it and the rest he's taken after Wimbledon, which I think was very sensible to just freshen himself up mentally and then to go again and to be just this dedicated. But I also do think something Juan Carlos Ferreira said is also fair comment and stands up to scrutiny. He's getting a little older. He's maturing. He's learning about himself and about circumstances and situations.

31:43Matt Roberts: He's blooming, David.

31:45David Law: I am still worried maybe irrationally but I am worried about the number of exhibitions that he signs up to he signed up to the Saudi Arabia one he signed up to one in December Lever Cup's kind of an exhibition you know I don't think you need to play all these things and I worry that he for his sake that he gets injured or he gets burnt out but you know I was saying that a year ago It's gone pretty well this year, hasn't it? So my expectation more is that he comes out with this massive target to the question that you asked him, Catherine, about wanting that career slam. And he was quick to say, look, it doesn't have to happen next year.

32:29David Law: I just want to do it one day. But he's going to be jumping out of his skin trying to win that Australian Open.

32:37Matt Roberts: Yeah, he said, it's my number one goal now, but it doesn't have to be next year. I think what he was trying to say is it's not about beating Yannick Sinner.

32:48Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it's not a race.

32:49Matt Roberts: It's not a race. Although it is a race. I think he was basically like, we're both going to do it. It doesn't matter who does it first, but between the lines, I would quite like to do it first.

33:00David Law: Clearly, he'd love it. He's desperate to do it. That's what he wants. And in answer to your first question, I do think that this can be a more new normal for him. I think he's liked the consistency that he's shown

33:12Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's what I think I think the fact that he's enjoyed clearly taken such satisfaction from this consistency from being a little bit more boring proving to himself that he can still have fun and still take the enjoyment take what he needs to take from the sport doing it this way you know, he was so pleased but he was one of the first questions in the press conference was about how Juan Carlos Ferreira, who had been in just before him, had described it as the perfect match today that he had played. He was so pleased to have pleased Juan Carlos Ferreira in that way. It was a really sweet moment and he's taking so much pleasure from all elements of this.

33:58Matt Roberts: I think that's real nourishment for him in terms of a new template of how the sport can be for him. Yeah, he's always been this incredible blend of someone who is absolutely desperate to win,

34:17Catherine Whitaker: but also absolutely desperate to entertain. Like, there are examples of the former, there are examples of the latter, but getting that blend is so unique. and it seems that the game style he was playing this tournament is compatible with that so I absolutely think he's going to want to keep this up I think from a you know from a US Open perspective it's quite interesting that this tournament he's barely played night sessions You know, that was one of our big concerns about Carlos Alcaraz here. Like, we've seen him not have his best stuff in the night sessions in the big matches. You know, here he played quarterfinal in the day, semifinal in the day.

35:08Catherine Whitaker: The final now is a day session. I feel like we didn't quite get that test of him. I'm sure he would have passed it. He was so clearly the best player in this tournament.

35:19David Law: We did get indoors, which was interesting.

35:20Catherine Whitaker: We got indoors against Yannick Sinner.

35:22Matt Roberts: We got sleeveless and we got indoors.

35:23Catherine Whitaker: Those are two things ticked off. And he got a win over Novak Djokovic on a hard court for the first time. So he's absolutely proved himself. But I just wonder going into Australia, you know, whether that's going to be a factor that we're thinking about again, you know, when he plays those latter stage matches. Can he be as focused? Can he be as controlled in those night sessions? I think he can, but it's just a little something. In terms of the big picture race that isn't a race to complete the career slam, what's interesting is obviously they've gone two and two now over the last two years. They've split the slams, Sinner and Alcaraz.

36:08Catherine Whitaker: And the one that Sinner needs is the one that Alcaraz has won both times in the last two years, the French Open, and the one that Alcaraz needs is the one that Sinner's won both times in the last two years. So it really does feel like they each need to break serve, right, to try and complete that career slam, which I think is also what's made this summer interesting. Because if you'd said to me that Sinner would win Wimbledon, I'd have been surprised. And if you'd said that Alcaraz would get the US Open on the hard court, I'd have been surprised. And I think the rivalry is in a good place because it's not like they're just doing the things we expect them to do.

36:49Catherine Whitaker: you know they're constantly responding to each other and improving their games as a result of it and proving that they can beat each other on every surface like comparing comparing it to Federer Nadal you know back in 2006 7 8 which is kind of what it feels like a little bit in terms of this duopoly that was much more for a long period Federer's winning on the grass at Wimbledon Nadal's winning all of the matches on the clay and maybe they're not going to meet in that many hard court finals because Federer's so ahead and other players can beat Nadal that was a pattern for a few years and it took Nadal winning at Wynwood in 08 to break that and throw the whole thing open and then obviously Djokovic comes along but this rivalry is already open I really think they can each beat each other on every surface, at every event And it does leave us in a really enticing place with those two.

37:54Catherine Whitaker: Because I think our point about the bigger picture of men's tennis does stand. But as long as Sinu and Alcaraz are there, we are going to be left with a fascinating plot line, I think, a kind of going into every slam and at the moment at the end of every slam as well, because they just keep meeting.

38:15Matt Roberts: I mean, as you say, it is the second consecutive year that they've split the slams between them. It's really hard to see that not being the case for the foreseeable, right? I know there's probably some recency bias in there, but, like, do you see this going on for a while?

38:32David Law: Yeah, I mean, look...

38:34Matt Roberts: You've already said duffers.

38:36David Law: I know I'd had a few drinks that night when I said 12 in a row back in 2023, but he's won five out of ten, and between them they've won 9 out of 10. I know I didn't know Sinner was going to be this good, but it's actually not quite as absurd when you think of it in those terms because I think that they could, if they stay fit, I don't see who's stopping them at the moment. I think it's going to take somebody else. But injuries can happen and likely will happen, but I don't see them losing their motivation. I don't see them losing their ability, their focus, any of it. So, yeah, I think that this is going to be something to get used to.

39:22Matt Roberts: Do you think Al Graz will do it in Australia?

39:24David Law: I've already said he will. Him and Svantec will win Australia. I said that months ago. You don't feel as strongly about the sort of sinner ability to respond

39:39Catherine Whitaker: in a way that you've described the Alkraza's ability to respond post-Wimbledon.

39:43David Law: Oh, listen, absolutely. I think he will respond.

39:48Catherine Whitaker: But Alkraza will still just have enough. Listen, it could easily go the other way.

39:53David Law: Sinner could easily win that tournament. But I would strongly advise against trying to overhaul your game, Yannick, as a way to do it, because you just don't need to.

40:06Catherine Whitaker: yeah double down on making plan a even better nothing wrong with being a baseline and yannick

40:12Matt Roberts: he sort of spat it out in the press conference sydney like i'm a really good baseliner as if like you know the way people spit out the word the way the labor cup spits out exhibit we're not an exhibition it's okay there's nothing wrong with being exhibition it's not a dirty word um

40:29David Law: Again, I haven't even had any beers, and I'm a bit high on Alcaraz, so that can account for some of what I might be saying. And there is a recency bias to things, because the moment that Wimbledon ended, it really felt like Sinner had got hold of him, even though the head-to-head said something different. It was only when I saw Alcaraz again, the next time, even in that just first game of Cincinnati, and I thought, OK, I just feel like I'm looking at something different here. so we'll see what's next

40:59Catherine Whitaker: and look Alcaraz has just navigated this period of the season much better this year than he did last year, I know last year had the Olympics and that threw a real element in but now I think the challenge for him is to navigate this end of the season where he's never really looked himself has he in the latter portion of the season in the indoor swing and then figuring out what best to do as his preparation for the Australian Open. I think Sinner likes the indoor swing. He sort of keeps up the momentum post the US Open. I think he also has kind of just really figured out how best to perform at the Australian Open.

41:43Catherine Whitaker: Clearly, he's won it the last two years. Like, he's, I think, from that sense, he's got nothing that he needs to really change, Sinner. Alcraz has got, this has traditionally been his weakest time of year, the next few months leading into the Australian Open. And the Australian Open is clearly his weakest slam. So game-wise, I think Alcaraz now seems like he's got the edge. But just knowing how to perform in Australia and bring your best and be ready for that tournament, Sinner's kind of got the edge. So right now, I would probably go Alcaraz to win Australia in a way that I think before I would have said sinner, but it's so close.

42:28Matt Roberts: It's so hard, isn't it, to see what you've seen today and just not pick out Graz to win everything, right? Like, that's the bear trap. That's the feeling it gives you, yeah. Incidentally, the clang that you probably just heard, there have been sort of slightly softer clangs throughout the show, but that was a pretty dramatic clang. That is the sound of the pretty extreme airport-style security that we've had in place today here at the Billie Jean King National Tennis Centre being dismantled before our eyes. This has been a big feature of today, of the final day of action here at the US Open. We were warned about it in advance.

43:12Matt Roberts: We knew this was going to be the case because of the president attending the tennis today as a guest of Rolex in their suite. That obviously comes with major, major security implications. We saw the trucks arriving last night. We saw them putting up the airport-style security just on the main forecourt of the US Open in front of the Arthrash Stadium and by these sort of iconic fountains that you see. It was a pretty dramatic and arresting sight as we were leaving last night seeing them put that up. So we kind of knew on paper what it meant. We all made very unusual arrangements in terms of leaving all our laptops here at the tournament.

43:54Matt Roberts: We were told to travel very, very light today because of the very intense bag searches and security that we'd be subjected to. Actually, we all got in. We arrived early. we all got in fairly smoothly relative to what we might have been expecting. That wasn't the case for an awful lot of fans that came to the tennis today. At about 1.30 in the afternoon, the final was scheduled to begin at 2pm. At about 1.30, the start time was delayed until 2.30 and then there was a further delay announced until 2.37pm. I don't know where they came up with the specificity of 2.37pm. But I could see on the build-up coverage that I was watching how slowly the Arthur Ashe Stadium was filling up, how much time it was taking to get the thousands and thousands of people that we could see filling that forecourt through the security gates and into the stadium.

44:59Catherine Whitaker: And that is the only entrance into Ash anyway. You know, it's always a bit slow getting into Ash because you've got, what is it, over 20 ,000 people going through one entrance, a large entrance, but one. It's not like there's entrances at all corners of the stadium. and suddenly you had that number of people having to go through that entrance with incredibly enhanced security. It was always going to take much longer to get the people into the stadium than it normally would and it just did not seem like they had accounted for that. It was a mess.

45:42Matt Roberts: Yeah, it was a disaster. I mean, thousands and thousands of people that had paid thousands and thousands of dollars missed at least a set of this final. Now, I know the USTA didn't invite the president to the final today. Rolex did, and of course they made accommodations for a whole bunch of reasons. They're not going to block that happening, but it happened, and it was a disaster for a lot of fans. I mean, I spoke to, I bumped into some lovely listeners who were on the barge and have had a shout out and who were in great spirits. They weren't, they didn't come over to me to have a moan, but I asked them about their experience of the day.

46:31Matt Roberts: And they had each paid$2 ,590 to sit in the top bowl in the loge level, which is the same level I think that the media seats are in, the upper tier media seats were in. And they got in two games into the second set after having arrived at about 1.30pm. It was a catastrophe today. You know, I went out, Matt and I at first weren't given a media seat. A lot of White House reporters were here today and a lot of the seats that, well, a lot of the media seats were allocated to them. No additional provisions were made for the political reporters that come with the president attending an event. The USTA communications team did eventually come through for us and give us a pass, but at first we didn't have one, so I went out and got a flavour of what was going on out here during the opening set here in the concourse, and it was pandemonium.

47:38Matt Roberts: It was a disaster. It was chanting. It was unrest. It was grim. And look, I know not everybody will feel the same about the president having been there today, but David, you were in the stadium when he was first presented to the crowd, albeit a half-empty stadium because half the crowd were out here in the concourse. As planned, as we reported yesterday, he was shown during the national anthem and you got a flavour of what the reaction was.

48:15David Law: Yeah, I just stepped out the commentary box to try to see with my own eyes and listen with my own ears because I didn't really know what the TV company was going to do, the production arm of the tournament here, whether they were going to, I don't know, maybe mute the crowd a little bit or something like that. So I went out and had a listen and when he was shown during the National Anthem, I mean, like you say, there were a couple of thousand at that point in a 24 ,000-seat stadium, and there were boos. There were quite loud boos. Not everybody, some people, one or two, were cheering, but the vast majority were booing that were there, but it wasn't that loud because there just weren't that many people.

48:59David Law: However, contrary to what was expected, the anticipation was that he would only be shown on screen once during that opening ceremony. but a few games in at a sit down he got shown again for quite some time picked up put on the big screen for quite some time when the place was fairly full by then and it was I would say 80 % boos it was loud and it was clear um and it was quite an arresting moment um and and listen I heard that through my I don't know what it sounded like on tv but I was listening on the radio of our BBC 5 Live coverage and so that was coming through the feed so I could hear it on on there and and I would assume therefore people could hear it on TV but yeah that was loud and I'm sure a lot of people were thinking I've been I've missed a set because of this so I'm going to boo because of that but I also think look a lot of people let their feelings known from within this city about how they feel about how their country's being run.

50:03Matt Roberts: Yeah, and look, obviously I understand not everybody feels the same way, but a lot of people will have felt like that was a significant cloud over today. It was certainly a significant feature of today, however you felt about it. Like, it was undeniable. These two athletes being made to wait before... I mean, it eased as the match went on. But at times in the build-up, it felt... You could almost forget that there was a tennis match about to happen. Like, it felt not even secondary. It felt tertiary. It felt like a footnote to the circus.

50:48Catherine Whitaker: Oh, absolutely. It was all so distracting. I think is a massive embarrassment for the tournament having to move the start time of the final at extremely late notice. My heart was breaking for those fans stuck outside. You might get one chance to come to a Grand Slam final. you know like i think we can probably be guilty of taking going to tennis for granted but we you know we hear a lot of stories of people who are here for the one time and something they've been desperately looking forward to and they've spent a lot of money on and the experience was ruined look i know that i'm sure alcaraz and sinner when they got in their seats like they would have made up for it to some extent but not fully like there was a lot of people there who had their day torpedoed by that.

51:53Catherine Whitaker: And, yeah, it was pretty grim, actually. Personally, I found it really hard to get into the match until about an hour in and when things had settled down and you could tell that the stadium was filling up. It was a really tough scene.

52:11Matt Roberts: Yeah, honestly, it was a tough day for a lot of people with a few saving graces. Obviously, Carlos Alcraz and Yannick Sinner being a biggie. The fact that the trophy that was placed in front of Donald Trump turned out to be a fake, a sort of shiny toy for him to have at his disposal, that was also a great moment. And, of course, the final, most important saving grace was?

52:47Catherine Whitaker: The moment we found out that Bruce was here. We were on the subway on the way in. Guessed Bruce Springsteen. I still don't think people are getting

52:59Matt Roberts: No one gets it enough.

53:00Catherine Whitaker: How iconic it was. Make them get it, Matt. Well, I went to a couple of Bruce's shows this year and he started those shows by saying America is in the hands of a corrupt, incompetent, treasonous administration. And then he carries on throughout the entire show, slamming that administration and curating a set list on the Land of Hope and Dreams tour. And then he's there in the stadium when Trump's there. Like, it was just remarkable. Like, he just couldn't let Trump have the stage, you know. and you know that Trump was raging when Bruce got shown on the big screen. There were cheers. Courtney Cox came over, of course.

53:51Catherine Whitaker: That was iconic. Having been in the Dancing in the Dark video, like, my guy. He just showed up. Not when Amanda Nisimov was playing. He was unavailable. He was unavailable.

54:06Matt Roberts: Yeah.

54:07Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

54:08Matt Roberts: He's the boss. He is the boss, yeah. Incredible. Shaggy also there. Shaggy and Sting, the duo that nobody knew they needed. Yeah, well done, Bruce. Big moment. That is it for part one. Join us in part two when we look ahead a little bit.

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56:45Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of this final tennis podcast from the U.S. Open 2025. Let's talk about what we have coming up, folks. Dave is giving me a look of like more podcasts.

57:02Catherine Whitaker: I've got the bandwidth to remember what it is. If Dave is looking like that, we're all in trouble.

57:08Matt Roberts: Yeah. Shall I tell you how in trouble we all are? We will be back next Monday, the 15th of September. You've got a week, David. Yes, I'm ready. Is that enough? I can do it. Okay. Monday, the 15th of September, live on YouTube. Oh, now we're talking. Nowhere to hide. To launch and look ahead to the Billie Jean King Cup finals, which take place in Shenzhen, China, from Tuesday the 16th to Sunday the 21st of September. You might have heard this week, as reported in the British press, Emma Raducanu has withdrawn from the Great Britain team, but Jasmine Paolini will be part of Team Italy, defending their title.

57:46Matt Roberts: Madison Keys is down to compete for the US. It should be a good field, and it's an event that we love and we enjoy supporting.

57:56David Law: yeah it is and you know even when you maybe don't get the biggest names at the team events all the time it's always it always feels okay to me because it ends up unearthing other players and the team spirit and we find out about a few different players i just listen team competition playing for your nation never gets old really even if i feel like it should be on a higher stage and in a better spot in the calendar often and and you you should have all the players supporting and and why don't they make more room for it in the calendar and all these things i wish it was all better than than kind of it's treated at times by tennis as a whole but i still look forward to it

58:42Matt Roberts: i can't wait to to cover it yeah very well said so that'll be next monday the 15th of september live on YouTube, 8pm UK time, that is 3pm here in the US, East Coast trying to get back in the UK groove

58:59Catherine Whitaker: I think you've nailed it

59:01Matt Roberts: 3pm East Coast time and that means midday West Coast time I've taken myself down a rabbit hole here, I didn't intend to but there you go, that's our next main feed podcast which will be live on YouTube before then though to help you with the Grand Slam blues we have several shows planned for friends of the tennis podcast subscribers in the next few days we'll be posting our us open review show featuring voice notes from some of our very favorite contributors those are some of our very favorite shows to produce sort of our opportunity to reflect on these major tournaments in a big picture way that we don't necessarily get to do when we're kind of in pumped reactive mode, which is brilliant and fun too.

59:51Matt Roberts: But there are other ways to look at these Grand Slams and these review shows give us the chance to do that also with the benefit of kind of the jumping off point of these voice notes that we get from some incredible people that are very generous with their time and energy.

1:00:09Catherine Whitaker: They sure are. and they allow us to think about things that we've not thought of or think about things in a slightly different way. Yeah, we always get incredible contributions to these shows and they make them fun and easy to record and I think these ones are popular with friends.

1:00:31Matt Roberts: So that'll be coming this week. We also have our happy hour show, a new edition for 2025. It's essentially the best bits of our US Open fortnight put together by the brilliant Vicky Sprebery. That'll be up this week as well for friends. And a little later than scheduled, but absolutely worth the wait, coming soon will be Pam Shriver relived. And the story of her run to the US Open final here in 1978 at the age of 16 and everything that came after it. We'll hear from Pam herself and, and we've heard a preview of this, Pam in conversation with the two players she faced in the final two rounds. Martina Navratilova and Chrissie Evatt.

1:01:14Matt Roberts: Trust me, you don't want to miss this one. So to gain access to all of those bonus shows, plus our whole back catalogue, we do eight new Tennis Relived shows each year, Grand Slam Review podcasts after every major and a live Q &A stream every month. You can become a friend of the tennis podcast to get access to all of that by going to tennis.supportingcast.fm tennis.supportingcast.fm you can also find the link in our show notes i'm i probably didn't need to spell that out for everybody i like it better safe than sorry you can also get a pre-sale window to our live audience shows, access to our incredible writer Hannah Wilkes and her monthly comment and her monthly column and access to the Barge our online community message board, a safe, special, heartwarming space for tennis fans to exchange their views about the sport.

1:02:17Matt Roberts: It's been an incredible thing to see flourish over the last couple of years. So tennis.supportingcast.fm for more or the link in our show notes. And speaking of tickets to our live audience shows, folks, do you fancy a trip to Wrexham?

1:02:33David Law: Of course you do.

1:02:35Matt Roberts: If you want to see us live, then the final opportunity to do that is in Wrexham, Wales, if that's not obvious, Wrexham, Wales, on Wednesday the 22nd of October. Tickets are now nearly gone. Yeah. Better be quick. They've flown off the shelves thanks to considerable promos. But they are nearly gone. So if you want to come, get in there quick. Friends of the Tennis Podcast, buying a ticket to the show. Also get 50 % off tickets to the W100 tennis event being held in Wrexham during the week. And that's a great show put on by Dave Corteen up there in Wrexham. And it's a great thing to support as well.

1:03:17Matt Roberts: So we'll pop the link to that in our show notes. which brings us to our incredible mascots Phoebe, Maisie and Roger thank you for your unwavering support through each of our mediocre performances in the predictions this fortnight none of us have covered ourselves in glory I think it's been just about respectable but no one's excelled

1:03:43David Law: to me my predictions run is a bit like my golf game it doesn't matter what happened on the first 17 holes as long as on the 18th I hit one good shot that I remember and that's kind of what's happened in the last 24 hours understood I hope to soon

1:03:58Matt Roberts: feel that way about my own golf game hello and thank you to our top folks and executive producers Greg Chris and Jeff we had another lovely visit from Chris today oh how lovely we did he's he's a

1:04:11Catherine Whitaker: lovely man with a lot of very interesting insight as well thank you Greg Chris and Jeff

1:04:19Matt Roberts: thank you to the Athletic we are of course part of the Athletic podcast network and it is a great pleasure to be so for our first US Open as part of the Athletic family which leaves us just to thank our incredible team without whom we really couldn't do what we do we actually used to do this without them and I really don't know how. No clue. What on earth were we playing at? So thank you to Hannah, Vicky, Gorona and Jib for truly making this possible and making our mental health possible I think. Honestly, you are all the most incredible team and we're so lucky to get to work with you at all sorts of hours of the day and all sorts of different time zones.

1:05:07Yeah,

1:05:08Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, thanks to them, we're a real 24-hour operation. We can actually go to sleep and stuff is still happening. Hannah's on the bog, she's making clips, Vicky's making Instagram carousels, she's doing a lot of admin for us, Goran is helping out with those Instagram carousels, she's designing the newsletters, and then there's Jib, who is editing these podcasts. I'm just generally being a legend.

1:05:41Matt Roberts: Yeah, and also planning trail runs on the side.

1:05:46Catherine Whitaker: And not getting arrested. Yeah.

1:05:49Matt Roberts: We love you all. We're a bit obsessed with you.

1:05:54Catherine Whitaker: And they're all so fun.

1:05:56Matt Roberts: Yeah, fun. Fun is the absolute key. You cannot do three weeks of a... As much as we love this, you cannot do three weeks of Grand Slam finishing at three o 'clock in the morning without fun.

1:06:08David Law: You have to find it funny. Yeah.

1:06:10Matt Roberts: It has to be silly. So we are tremendously grateful to all of you for doing just that. We're tremendously grateful to all of you for listening because if you weren't, we'd just be three fools talking to ourselves at three o 'clock in the morning. I'd be up for it, but this is better. So honestly, thank you ever so much for listening, for supporting us, for saying nice things on the barge about us if you do that, for generally being there with us along the way and making this all worthwhile. We're very grateful. We will be back next Monday. And before that, for friends of the Tennis Podcast, one last time from New York for 2025.

1:06:50Matt Roberts: Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you soon.

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