US Open Day 15 - Zverev wins, US wait goes on

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2:04Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, our final daily tennis podcast from the 2026 US Open here at Flushing Meadows, New York. Today is the end of a long, gruelling, thrilling three weeks for us here at the final Grand Slam of the season. If you're new to what we do, we are me, Catherine Whittaker, Matt Roberts and David Law. We produce shows at least weekly throughout the year, covering the men's and the women's tennis tours. And we travel to all four major tournaments to bring you daily shows wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube. We try to be your one-stop shop for tennis coverage and analysis.

2:46Matt Roberts: Or in the words of Jim Currier, when we stopped by the World Feed commentary booth earlier, you guys watch all the tennis so we don't have to. And the tennis we watched today was top seed Alexander Zverev winning his second Grand Slam title and first US Open title with a four-set win over American Ben Shelton, 6-3, 7 -6, 5-7, 6-2. A match with one of the weirdest endings I have ever seen in a major final. We will come on to that. David, what was the story of this match for you? the story of it I think was a man in Alexander's Verve who played this to perfection in terms of emotional approach and and tactical approach and he also played very very well too I just felt the most important thing was that he he just sucked all the life out of the the Arthur Ashe stadium by not riling people up by he shortened his services service motion so that he wasn't bouncing the ball as much as he had been he was sort of watching the clock he got caught once he got overtime once but he did everything within his power to not give ben shelton anything to get his teeth into to not give the crowd anything to get the teeth into he did elongate things where it does make you a bit, you almost nod off a bit, you know, and I think that that all worked to his favour.

4:19And he showed his maturity. He showed his experience in these situations. And I'm afraid, from a Ben Shelton point of view, he did some things well, some things like he's done to get to this position of being in the final, but he didn't execute on the big points. And time and time again, the few chances he set up to give himself the upper hand in a rally and to have to put away a forehand. It was absolutely imperative that when he had a forehand to put away that he could do it time and time again. He would blaze it long. And I'm afraid you just can't get away with that. You know, he fought hard.

4:56It was a nice comeback in the third set. But, I mean, I think he's OK with it. He's reasoned that this is part of the process and I think he's right. But on the day, I think he will have regrets that he couldn't do what he sent out to do.

5:12Matt Roberts: I think in our anticipation and our expectations of this match, we all tried to factor in the Ben Shelton first Grand Slam final element to all this. Like whoever it is playing their first major final, we rarely expect them to win. It has to be somebody pretty special, I think, to feel like they're the favourite in a first Grand Slam final. And yet I think we all felt like Ben Shelton was the kind of character, if there is one, that might cope with it better than others do. Matt, relative to expectations, given all of that, how did Ben Shelton perform today for you?

5:52Catherine Whitaker: Look, it's really hard to say because I said on the show last night I did not expect Ben Shelton to win. Like, I did think Zverev would win this final, and yet I do think Ben Shelton fell a little bit short of how I thought he would play, you know? Like, the result is not a surprise to me, but I do think three of the sets and the way they felt were a little bit surprising to me. You know, I kind of expected the match to be more like the third set, which was extremely competitive, and Ben Shelton actually won that set and I wasn't expecting him to win more sets than Zverev today but I expected it to look like that with Shelton applying pressure and he did just about take his chance in that third set when it came.

6:43Catherine Whitaker: It was the first time he'd broken Alexander Zverev's serve in something like 67 service games if you include their previous matches and it was the first time all day. but I thought he was pretty flat at the start I mean losing your serve in the very first game of the match and in a manner that just showed up all the issues that he has in the matchup against a lefty you know like he missed the forehands in that game he served into the backhand and it came back he tried the drop shot and Alexander Zverev eats up the ground against him if it's not an absolutely perfect drop shot and then in the second set it was all about him not taking the chances they weren't big chances they weren't like break points and stuff but it was 30 all points and 15 30 points he wasn't able to apply the pressure whereas on the other hand you had alexander zverev who i think is showing just how much getting the monkey off his back and winning his first grand slam title has freed him up in Grandstand Finals.

7:54Catherine Whitaker: You know, the best two Grandstand Finals he's played by far have been the two most recent ones. The Wimbledon one that he lost and this one today. Someone comfortable in the match-up, looking pretty settled generally, and just playing at a level and forcing Shelton to bring it in big moments. And Shelton just couldn't do that. But I can't say I was hugely surprised overall by how it went. as you say, very, very hard to win your first major title playing someone who's already won a major. You know, like, that's a really hard thing to do. And with, yes, the support of the crowd, but also the weight, the pressure, the general fatigue of Ben Shelton carrying that mantle through the tournament, you know, a four-set win for Alexander Zverev is not hugely surprising to me, even if some of it played out a little differently to what I was expecting.

8:48Matt Roberts: Yeah, he did say in the press conference just now, I was tired before I took to the court today. He talked about the cumulative fatigue of the tournament, which is obviously just something he's never experienced before. That's not a fitness thing. He's one of the fittest guys out there. It's just something you can't really prepare for. There was some analysis from Jim Currier and the World Feed broadcast at the end of the second set, when things were just getting tight. It was still on serve at this point. And he said, I'll tell you what Zverev is thinking here. Zverev is thinking, how passively can I get away with playing?

9:27Matt Roberts: And I tell you what, the answer is very. He said, Zverev is in error extraction mode here and it's probably going to work. It just struck me that today was kind of a perfect symphony of the right tactic, which was that that's being described there by Courier, and it was the right tactic. It was a tactical masterclass, really, against Ben Shelton, but it's also the way that Zverev is most comfortable playing. That's his default setting. Like, it was perfect harmony of those two things today. He just seemed, apart from at the end of the third set, when he got tight and got broken by Shelton for him to take that third set.

10:13Matt Roberts: Apart from that moment, it felt to me like Zverev was really comfortable throughout this match. Yeah, I'd agree with that. And I think he, for the most part, I totally agree that's where he is most comfortable and he sort of developed this other side of his game this year to be aggressive and attacking and kind of play like. I think most of us have thought, well, why don't you try and do that more? He's developed that because of Sinner and Alcras. And against the vast majority of players, he doesn't actually need to try to do that. It's more of a high-wire act anyway. And if you're a bit off, you may end up a load of unforced errors.

10:52Against the vast majority, he can be a backboard and use his pretty extraordinary movement and reach and dexterity. He is actually a really good player and probably a lot better player than I realised. he was going to be um and and sort of suffocate these opponents draw the errors out of them um and yet today i think he was playing well that's the difference is it's taken him a long time in this tournament to play well and he was very close to going out in the first two rounds a couple of points against lorenzo sonigo today he had the timing he he was able to hit out at times when he when he decided to and those those moments stung Shelton a little bit but yeah he he's he used his experience it was a master class and I'm just a bit surprised that Shelton didn't have more from the start and and on one hand I thought given that he lost the first set 6-1 of the tournament and he lost the first set in two other matches that element wasn't necessarily surprising I just thought by the time he got to the final that he might he might be a different beast and then you've got the factor that it is a final it's his first grand slam final so maybe that's asking a little too much and it and it seemed to affect him more

12:17Matt Roberts: than I anticipated that I also think possibly and I don't think anything we said about Ben Shelton's return game up to this point has been wrong about the strides that he's made on it. If you go back and watch Ben Shelton from, what was it, four years ago, three years ago when he first made the semifinals here and he looked so raw and it was all so built around the serve and he barely had a return game. He has made tremendous strides on it, but we were drawing a lot of conclusions on the basis of match-ups against Francis Tiafoe, not one of the ATP's best servers, and Carlos Alcaraz, who was serving way below the speeds and the levels that we saw pre-wrist injury.

13:02Matt Roberts: It was a different kettle of fish against Alexander Zverev today, and the returns were shown up, as a lot of good players would have been facing that serve.

13:12Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, in that sense, it didn't feel like Shelton had actually closed the gap. You know, it looked like him returning Zverev's serve as in their previous matchups. And as I said, he only had that one break that was only his real chance, really. He wasn't getting to break point even. And Zverev was winning an extraordinary percentage behind his first serve. and it also, you know, it flips the dynamics for Shelton because he's so used to being able to be comfortable in his service games but when he plays Zverev, some of his own strengths on the serve are negated by the match-up and by the fact that Zverev likes to hang back so he can make more returns and Shelton's natural angle of attack is going into the Zverev backhand and Zverev has one of the very best backhands in the world, if not the best, on the men's tour.

14:11So that's tricky for Shelton.

14:15Catherine Whitaker: And I think for me, you know, there's this quote going around that Alexander Zverev gave on ESPN, where he's calling out the tactical mistake that Carlos Alcaraz made and Francis Tiafoe made.

14:26Matt Roberts: He said, against Ben, you don't need to be aggressive all the time. the more pace you play to his backhand, the better he plays. I think that's the mistake Carlos and maybe Francis made.

14:38Catherine Whitaker: And look, it said something, I think, about his ego, that he is prepared to, you know, say that about some fellow players, one of them being Carlos Alcaraz. But I, you know, I do think the analysis is probably quite good there in that what struck me most about Shelton against Alcaraz was how well he stood up to the baseline exchanges. And, you know, it obviously wasn't peak Alcaraz, but there were times where it felt like Alcaraz was throwing everything at him and they were having these quick-fire exchanges. And Shelton was often coming out on top. And we just didn't see barely any of those sorts of exchanges today because Zverev didn't allow them to happen.

15:23Catherine Whitaker: You know, like there were times where he would take the forehand on up the line, particularly in the second set tie break. He did step up his aggression there, Zverev, and really wrenched that from Shelton after a long, tight set. But a lot of the time, he was not having to play all that aggressively, and he was hanging back, and he was forcing Shelton to come up with the shots and shrinking the court with his movement and suffocating him with his depth of strike, doing all the things he's very, very comfortable doing and that happened to be very good for this match-up. and Shelton was not able to solve that over the course of the match.

16:06Matt Roberts: The ball bouncing maybe wasn't as big a feature of the match as we were expecting. It wasn't not a feature. In the words of Shelton in his post-match press conference, everyone wants that to be the story. And he didn't say, look, it's not the story. He didn't say it's not a thing. He did talk in quite a lot of detail about the challenges of returning against somebody that is playing at the pace that Zverev is playing at. But it definitely, as you've said, wasn't egregious as it has been in previous matches. There had, I think, been an adjustment on Zverev's part. Yeah, I think so. I think he was aware of the fact that this had gained traction and was becoming a talking point.

16:52And he didn't want it to be one. You know, he wanted it to be an irrelevance, really, from the outside. And I think he made a conscious effort to keep his eye on that clock because sometimes he came to the line when there were only like 10 seconds to go. And he was releasing the ball after like seven bounces because he knew he hadn't got much time left. So he showed he can do it. He, it's become a thing. He's become aware of it. I think he was clever today. I think he was really clever in the way he kept the crowd out of it.

17:33Matt Roberts: Yeah, I mean, I do think Shelton made a very good point about how he was getting a couple of soft warnings from the umpire about not being ready when Zverev was starting his service motion. So the umpire is judging that the shot clock stops when Zverev starts bouncing the ball, i.e. the service motion begins when Zverev starts bouncing the ball. Shelton is saying, I'll be ready when he serves. Like, I am playing to the service place even if I'm not ready when he starts bouncing the ball. and I think that is I think that's a very fair point

18:18Catherine Whitaker: Yeah and he mentioned the difficulty in you know if he's in his ready position which is you know crouched down in his proper grip focused on the ball probably that's you can't be doing that for 20 plus seconds every single time. Tiring. It's tiring you know he's in a crouched position that's going to put tension in his legs so he was He was kind of standing in a pretty loose manner at the back of the court until, you know, right up until Zverev was about to serve. And then the other point he made was that there's no shot clock between first and second serve. And that was something that really frustrated Shelton, I think.

18:57Catherine Whitaker: You know, it's all very well in the first serve. And, you know, I guess technically most of the time Zverev was within the 25 seconds. but then he's taking a very long time between first and second serve, way longer than anyone else. And, you know, I think Shelton was, I think, quite rightly calling for there to be some kind of rule change. I don't have the answer, I don't know what it is, but there needs to be some sort of regulation because it's not good for fans either, you know, when it's taking so long for the next bit of action to happen. It is a real drain on a match like that.

19:33Matt Roberts: It will surprise nobody that I'm totally with him on that. I think time between first and second serves is an underreported crime in tennis. I mean, Laura Siegmund, sorry to bring it back to the worst offender, but she is, I mean, it's criminal what she's doing between first and second serves, but she's not alone because there's no real rule about it. Should be a tipping point. Yeah, absolutely. Should we talk about the last game, how the match ended? I've never seen anything like this, David. We see players forget the score. You see it in a tie break quite... Not often, but it's not that unusual to see a player not realise quite what the score is, not realise it's a change of ends, will stand on the wrong side to receive serve, you know, not realise what the score within a game is.

20:26Matt Roberts: I have never seen a player serve for a Grand Slam title and it become evident immediately after winning that game that they did not know they were serving for a Grand Slam title. No, I don't remember that either. I remember the slight awkwardness when Federer hit an ace in the 2017 Australian Open final, and there was a Hawkeye challenge, and they had to go through the whole sort of process of that and stand at the net and wait. But this was different. I mean, he won the point, and he sort of just turned around ready to go for the next game. and Shelton's walking towards the net. The crowd are kind of, you know, remarking the moment of victory.

21:12I mean, they're obviously disappointed, the vast majority of them, but they were applauding. And, you know, the whole match is, the score is being announced by the umpire, game, set and match. I was in commentary at that moment saying, well, Zverev's won the title. He doesn't appear to know it. And so the whole thing was just a very strange situation. and I think his support team were shouting, because he'd be walking towards them and the support team was shouting, no, no, you've won. And he's like, oh, have I? It was genuine. He did not know. He had no clue. But I think that that tells you what a trance he'd got himself in for this match to not be bothered by external elements.

21:55And I don't think I've seen him do that any better than he did it tonight. Like you think of all the times that he has got ratty or he has got irritable with somebody in the crowd or or something that an opponent's doing or something the umpire has called. He wasn't even getting upset about line calls. You know, he'd managed to get himself into this Zen like state where nothing was bothering him. And he wasn't he was just as focused as I think you could possibly be on a tennis court. And it was kind of Djokovic in that way. When Djokovic gets into that mindset, you think of that 2015 US Open final against Federer when the whole crowd was against him and he just took them all on and he just took them all out.

22:44And I think that that's where we were tonight with Zverev. And yeah, to the point where seemingly he didn't even know he was about to win the title. We could have asked him about it in the press conference, but he was an hour late to that.

23:00Matt Roberts: how long did you sit in the room waiting for him? we sat on the front row, I sat on the front row for 30 minutes and eventually just thought ok, I've had enough of this and left the room because we needed to record this show before the last bus goes and then he was another half an hour late after that so people were leaving all the time frankly from the room, but there we are

23:24Catherine Whitaker: I've just seen the WhatsApp group with the new time and And I saw that someone's done an eye roll reaction to the new time. And I thought, which legend is that? Catherine Whittaker, everyone.

23:40Matt Roberts: Can't believe that I'm the only person I'm urging. I will add to that. Okay, great. I'd appreciate that. I feel it's lonely out here. Folks, if you were, I mean, lots of broadcasters have their own commentators on this match. A lot of people will have had the world feed commentary. Mary Carrillo, Jim Currier, Robbie Koenig, courtside were the world feed commentary team for this match. It is great world feed coverage that they do at this tournament. It's fantastic. I mean, Lindsay Davenport, Jim Currier, Andrea Petkovic, Laura Robson. I mean, I could keep going. There's a lot of great commentators, obviously all led by Mary Carrillo, who is the best of the best.

24:26Matt Roberts: She's a Hall of Famer for a reason. Mary mentioned during the first set of the World Feed broadcast the two women, Olya Sharipova and Brenda Patea, that have accused Zverev in the past of domestic abuse and violence. He denies those allegations, as Mary also stated on the broadcast. To my knowledge, no other TV broadcaster is bringing this information to the attention of audiences. David, I know you did in your BBC radio commentary today. And look, it's up to the audiences what they do with that information. But it is our belief here among the three of us that audiences should be made aware of the full context of what they're watching and who they're watching.

25:12Matt Roberts: And while there is legal framework that we all have to operate within that can make it delicate to raise as a topic, it is possible to do it if you think it is important enough, which Mary Carrillo does to her great credit. But she is increasingly, David, an outlier, certainly in the broadcast world. Yeah, that's right. And it is more than two years now since Zverev's court case, which was settled out of court. And I know there are absolutely people out there and fellow broadcasters, colleagues of ours who believe that it should be left now, you know, and time to move on and things like that. Personally, I don't think that.

26:02I think it's, particularly with the nature of this particular set of accusations, two sets of accusations, one of which went to court, one of which didn't, I think absolutely it's important that audiences should be told what the backdrop is, what the context is, what the history is, and absolutely be told that he's always denied those accusations and that no verdict on innocence or guilt was ever reached, but that they are out there, that they were out there, and that they weren't proven either way. To me, that's important because we're required, and I think it's absolutely right, They were required to also tell the story of, say, Alexander Zverev's type 1 diabetes and the insulin that he's injecting and things like that.

26:56These are all part of his history, known history in terms of the fact that there was a court case. I think that that should be communicated to people so that they can get a picture of who they're watching and decide where they stand on it, what they feel about it. And no, I'm not going to just pretend those accusations were not made and that that court case didn't happen.

27:27Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and I think especially when, you know, Zverev's just been in a Wimbledon final for the first time and that, for a lot of people in the UK who only watch Wimbledon, they may have been very unaware of Alexander Zverev before that tournament and that final. And, you know, I think the viewers deserve to know who they're watching and their history. And same here. OK, he's been in a US Open final before, but it was before those allegations were made. And again, there could well be, you know, a new audience here. And, yeah, I feel for the individual broadcasters, you know, like in a way, I think, I think, you know, some probably don't care and are probably quite pleased to not mention it.

28:19Catherine Whitaker: But I think probably lots do and may well be being told by producers that that they shouldn't mention it now or, you know, people higher up. And it takes a lot to defy that and say something anyway. So I think all power to those broadcasters like David and like Mary who are saying that.

28:43Matt Roberts: Absolutely. That is it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about the big picture. Throw forward to 2027. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance.

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31:58Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. The part two where we ask, what does it all mean for the future? Alexander Zverev is now a two-time major champion. He's won both those titles this year. He's won more this year than Carlos Alcaraz or Yannick Sinner. He has been fit for the whole year, which Carlos Alcaraz and Yannick Sinner have not. He leads the race. He is on course to end the year as the world number one, something which he has stated as a massive goal, which is no great surprise. It's an incredible achievement. Assuming, David, and I know this is a big assumption, especially given what we've seen this year, but let's assume that Carlos Alcaraz and Yannick Sinner are fully fit for the duration of 2027.

32:50Matt Roberts: Do you expect this year and what Zverev has achieved this year to change the complexion of how he fits within their duopoly in the future? No. I do feel like he is closer. I feel like he has made major strides this year. I thought the moment he played the match he did against Alcraz in Australia, that we were looking at a guy that had got something else, had got something else on top of what I thought he'd got. I realise Alcraz cramped in that match, but I also think Zverev hurt him at times with his game. But to this point, he hasn't beaten either of them this year. he has lost several times to Sinner and mostly quite heavily I do think the Wimbledon final was a bit of a moment the fact that he got ahead by a set and that he played so well and he played absolutely the right way I thought that day and he wasn't far off so I'm absolutely fascinated I kind of hope that they come in obviously fully fit for the year I hope he can bring his best level and then we can find out because it is compelling to see this guy who's trying to close the gap and who seems to have added and has broken through and won two grand slams, which certainly I didn't think he was going to do.

34:18So all power to him for achieving that. But now I want to see if he can do it when they're there because so far he hasn't shown that. And that's what we've got to find out. I still think that they are another level above him. and I think they always will be if they're fully fit but he's quite welcome to go and prove me wrong. So let's find out, shall we? Matt?

34:45Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and look, I agree with everything David said. I think the ranking situation is quite interesting because, you know, if he's going to be one or two for a significant portion now, that means that he only, you know, like he doesn't have to go through both of them necessarily. You know, like he might be able to win slams by only beating one of them. Picking up the pieces maybe after they've beaten each other up. Picking up the pieces if they've played each other, exactly. So I think that's important for him. If I'm plotting a grand slam route for Alexander Zverev that includes going through Carlos Alcaraz in the semis and Yannick Sinner in the final, I don't think he's made the strides to be able to do that.

35:38Catherine Whitaker: Like, I think that is still too tall an order for him. But given how close he was in that fifth set against Alcaraz in Australia, given how well he played in the Wimbledon final, I think he's shown that he could be a threat to them.

35:57Catherine Whitaker: but I wouldn't be predicting it. I don't feel like he's better than them. I think he's won his slams because they've been injured. Look, Sinner wasn't injured at Roland Garros. He lost because of the heat there. And Alcaraz wasn't injured here. He lost to Ben Shelton, but he was undercooked. and I think he's going to need that going forward. He's going to need one of them not in the draw or them to take each other out or something or not have to play either of them like's happened at his slams because, you know, they're different. They're a different level and they've shown that repeatedly over the last few years.

36:47Catherine Whitaker: so to me it all depends on whether Alcaraz and Sinner are back as a combined force, you know? Like if one of them's back but not the other that's a world I think where Zverev can still win majors but if they're both back and both at full pelt like we saw in 2024 and 2025 to me they shut Zverev out. And I do think he has a, very understandably

37:15Matt Roberts: a bit of a chip on his shoulder about the fact that he's not beaten either of those two to win that Grand Slam title as much as he'll tell you that doesn't matter I think it does matter to him. I think he wants to prove that he can do it beating at least one of them along the way I have my doubts about whether he can but I certainly think that's a goal. Do you know, I think it is a goal, I think he does want to beat them next year but I don't think he has that chip on his shoulder. I think he believes that he is one of them now. I think there's kind of, I think his brain does, but I think there's a very deep-rooted insecurity there.

38:00I'm not sure I do. I think he looks at people who are saying that and wonders what their problem is. Why aren't they giving me unfettered praise here?

38:11Matt Roberts: But don't you think that the amount that he brings them up and sort of mentions, makes the... I don't know. I think he thinks he's part of a big three and he mentions it because we're part of a big three. That's my sense. I don't know. I just think there's a... I think there's something deep in there that gnaws at him. A lot of very arrogant people are also very insecure people. The two things tend to go quite hand in hand. Well, it'd certainly be a way to shut everybody up if he goes and thrashes them all next year. Good luck with that. Let's see, yeah. What about Ben Shelton? You know, as you said, David, he talked very reassuringly.

39:04Matt Roberts: I thought it was a really good Ben Shelton press conference after this defeat. and he did talk about this as gutted as he was as part of the journey. He said, I'm a late bloomer. I've always been a late bloomer. I don't think I'm anywhere near the level that I want to be right now, but he believes he has a lot more level in him. I think the title of the pod a couple of days ago when he reached the final is Ben Shelton the guy, i.e. the guy we've all been waiting for to be part of a big three. Zverev thinks it's him. But assuming if you're not accepting that it's Zverev, do you still think it could be Shelton?

39:47Matt Roberts: Is this part of a journey? I definitely feel like there's more improvements for him to make. He's young enough, 23. He has made bigger strides than I expected over the last year. I think his backhand has been a revelation. Even today, I think it was pretty good. The forehand let him down. Moments let him down. So I think he's got more improvement to make. I still thought he would do better than he did today. But absolutely, I take the point that he's probably going to get better as a result of this. But I still don't think he's going to be part of a big three with those two. The same way I don't think Zverev is.

40:31They are so much better than all of these guys, really, when they're at the best. They've proved it time and time again. So there's a lot of proving for everybody else to do. But I definitely think he can keep becoming a factor, and maybe more than that. And I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up winning a Grand Sam title, because he beat Alcaraz this fortnight, even if it was a diminished version of that man. But we don't know how fit Alcraz is going to be going forward. So there are going to be opportunities out there, I would have thought.

41:09Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, Zverev gave it the classic tennis relived, you will win this title one day, I would put all my money on it. And I was thinking, oh, no, don't say that. The thing is, again, completely agree with David. I think what 2026 has made me realise is how much more fragile a two at the top is than a three at the top that we had for so long in men's tennis and a four with Andy Murray. You know, like it doesn't take much for these tournaments, these these fields to suddenly become a lot more open. You know, once you've only got one of Sinner and Alcraz in the draw, anything can kind of happen, you know.

41:59Catherine Whitaker: And therefore, I do think Shelton's in a good place to potentially nick a slam over the next few years. And I've changed my mind on that. You know, if you'd asked me a few months ago, will Ben Shelton win a Grand Slam? I'd have said no, probably not. But now, with everything we've seen in 2026 and multiple slams in a row without both Al Kraz and Sinner, maybe this will be the outlier. But I have to think at some point over the next five to ten years, the bulk of Shelton's career, it's going to happen again. We're going to have these sorts of draws again. And I think he's shown enough Shelton here to show that he can step up, you know, and he's really rebounded well from what happened to him at Roland Garros and Wimbledon, and he has made enough strides in his game.

42:48Catherine Whitaker: And that point about him being a late bloomer is a key one. You know, I've seen footage of Ben Shelton playing as a sort of early teenager. He is nothing like the Kars Alcaraz that you see playing as an early teenager. Ben Shelton's more like my mates playing when they were teenagers. You think, God, he's made so much progress in 10 years and he's behind a lot of these other guys and he is playing catch-up. You know, he's the answer to the question, what happens if you give the quarterback a tennis racket?

43:21Matt Roberts: He was an athlete first and a tennis player second.

43:23Catherine Whitaker: Right, and we're finding that out. And he's an amazing athlete and he's now catching up with the tennis skills and he is improving all the time. And I do think here he's going to continue to be a real threat. He's already reached a semi-final a few years ago, a final now, and he's got that home slam. Yes, I think there was some home slam pressure today, but I think generally he rose to that really well and carried that really well. So, look, I definitely think he can... I wouldn't say he definitely will win the US Open, but I think he can win the US Open. But to the wider point of where he fits in to Sinu and Alcaraz, if they're both fit and healthy, it's just hard to see Shelton being there with them in a similar way to it's hard to see Zverev being there with them.

44:13Catherine Whitaker: They're better. And that's the reality, I think.

44:19Matt Roberts: Just before we move on from this match, this final, to talk about a couple of other things. David, how did you get on with identifying celebrities in the crowd today? Not very well. No. No, it was a bad day on the old celebrity identification front. Who was the most famous person you didn't recognise? I mean, there could have been loads of them for all I know. I couldn't tell who they were. But, I mean, there was a moment where two celebrities were shown back-to-back who I did recognise and they got a good cheer. And then a third one got shown who got a way bigger cheer and I had no clue who it was.

44:54So, there we are. That's kind of how it went.

44:57Matt Roberts: Michelle Obama was back. Oh, yeah, I know who she is. So, yeah. I saw Pink again. Yep. Some New York Knicks. Yes. You know them. I know. I've forgotten his name now. Jalen. But anyway. Bronson. Yes. That's it. Catherine's nailed it. Yeah. Matt Futterman seemed very excited about his presence. And I did see some of the NBA finals, so I saw how good he was. So, yes, I know him. But apart from that, it didn't go particularly well. What can I say? did well in all other respects david okay that is it for part two we'll be back in part three to wrap things up and talk about a couple of other bits of business ai is only as powerful as the platform it's built into that's why it's no surprise that more than 85 percent of the 14 500 use the service now ai platform while other platforms duct tape tools together service now seamlessly unifies people data workflows and ai connecting every corner of your business.

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47:35Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, our final tennis podcast from Flushing Meadows for 2026 before we run to get the bus one last time. Are we up for that? Yep. We haven't got much choice if we want to go home. Just before we do that, a real good news, uplifting, heartwarming, positive bit of tennis news today. A story that came out of Austria. The first professional men's tennis match between two openly gay players took place in Austria today. It was Switzerland's Mika Brunel facing Brazil's João Lucas Reyes da Silva in the final of the Toulon Challenger. And it was Brunel who won in two straight sets, 6-4, 6-3.

48:28Matt Roberts: Brunel was the second player to come out in men's tennis. He followed João Lucas Reyes da Silva. And he talked about that in his speech on the court. He said, one year after your coming out, I did mine and you were a big inspiration for me. And I'm really proud of us. He said, we can be role models for so many people who struggle with their sexuality. So thank you so much and good luck for your future. Yeah, I mean, it feels so kind of wild and regressive to talk about, to even use the words sort of openly gay. and yet that is where we are in men's tennis, isn't it? And this, sadly, given where we are, this is a massive deal and an incredibly uplifting story today.

49:23Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and just an example of why representation is so important and, yeah, there's something very, very heartwarming about the fact that Reyes de Silva came out a year before Bruno and, you know, anyone who's ever come out will have someone that they've looked up to who's done it and you've thought, oh, I wonder if I could do that and maybe I could do that, maybe I could be that, I want to be that and it's amazing that for Bruno, Reis de Silva is one of those people and now here they were sharing the court together. Yeah, very, very special and definitely something that should be celebrated right now.

50:07Matt Roberts: in his Instagram post which was last November, Bruno when he came out he said it means, he said this is where he said the line about we can be role models for so many people who struggle with their sexuality he said it also means dealing with things that most people never have to think about the fear of not being accepted, the pressure to stay quiet the feeling of being different but I've grown and I'm proud of who I am today so congratulations to Bruno and yeah, all power to both he and Reyesh to Silva and yeah, I hope the positive response to this story I'm yet to see anything about it on ATP channels you know, there's still time watch this space, that is a shame and a terrible, terribly missed open goal, you'd have to think but I hope that the positive coverage that this is receiving elsewhere can empower are the tennis players in a, unfortunately, very difficult position still.

51:14Matt Roberts: And that just about wraps up our coverage for the 2026 US Open. We have a few very important thank yous if you'll allow us a moment of indulgence, as we always do at the end of any Grand Slam, because they are such a huge undertaking for us and the whole team. They're our absolute favourite thing in the calendar. We love coming to these things. We love doing them. It is a privilege and a thrill to be here. But it's a lot. It's a lot. We couldn't do it without everybody else involved in the project. And those people, those heroes are Jib. Our editor Jib in the Philippines and his trusty companion Pan Pan.

51:54Hooray! Hooray for Jib and Pan Pan.

51:57Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, Jib's been editing the pod, uploading the pod, and also, like, organising social tennis events in the Philippines and getting people involved in recreational doubles. We love Jib so much, and I do think a real all-time pod highlight was when David and I had done the show at God knows what time it was the other morning, and there was no bus, so we had to track down an Uber, and while we were in the Uber back to Manhattan, Jib had edited and uploaded the pod and I just cannot tell you how much of a lifesaver that feels like in that moment and how without Jib that would have been David or I editing and uploading that pod when we got back to the apartment at sunrise.

52:51Matt Roberts: And not that long ago, that is exactly what it was. Yeah.

52:55Catherine Whitaker: Jib has now done a calendar slam of helping us at Slams.

53:00Matt Roberts: Of saving our lives. And we love him. Thank you, Jib. Same also applies to Hannah, to Vicky, to Gorona. I don't know where to start with these three. Hannah, who captains the barge, does all sorts of things on social media for us. Vicky, too. They work as a team with Gorona as well, our designer. it's wonderful to see everybody working together kind of more than ever before it's so heartwarming for us on this time zone in particular we get to wake up to about a hundred messages of them all discussing all the work they've done while we're asleep yeah they've just picked it up and sorted it all out and then suddenly clips are on instagram and quote graphics are everywhere the newsletter's already ready to send it's unbelievable yeah one of the things about being

53:47Catherine Whitaker: in the US when you're from the UK is that when you wake up, you always feel like you're catching up. You know, you wake up and you've got a load of messages. But, you know, I would see the WhatsApp notification with 165 texts. And yet I knew that it was fine. I knew that it was Hannah, Vicky and Goran chatting away and getting the work done and having a good time and making us look good. And yeah, we genuinely could not do it without any of them. and we love them all very much.

54:18Matt Roberts: Hear, hear. They're our core team, but we would also like, on this occasion, well, always we thank our friends at The Athletic. We miss Charlie this time around, but it was wonderful to have Matt and James and Ava and everybody else on that team, Lucas and Oscar. They're great company. They're great colleagues. And we're very glad to have them. Yeah, it feels like they're part of the wider team, really, and I hope they feel the same way about Ask Pam too. We love you, Pam. We love her visits to the media centre.

54:53Catherine Whitaker: Always iconic.

54:55Matt Roberts: Incredible. Pam Shriver's here. My favourite thing. And on this particular occasion, we would like to thank Mary Carrillo and the Hall of Fame for starting this trip off in the most memorable possible way. Yeah, that is a lifetime memory, I think, for all of us. And just a total highlight of all the 23 years that I've been covering this event. I had the fortune to come to New York, but that one is something that will always stand out. And I feel really touched and privileged to have been invited to attend. I loved the fact that Pam was with us, kind of showing us where to go and getting us into places we probably shouldn't have been.

55:41It was awesome. So, yeah, the tournament has been quite challenging in some ways. I think so much because of the late nights have just been, have taken a bit of the rhythm away from the tournament. But the high points have been really high for this tournament.

55:59Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I have felt like I've, you know, been on battery saving mode on your phone, which sort of shuts down certain apps and just gets your phone through it. I felt a bit like that this tournament from a very early on. But like, yeah, the high points have been magical and nothing more so than our trip to Newport and getting to celebrate Mary, who deserves to be celebrated, and sharing that moment with her was so, so special.

56:32Matt Roberts: Yeah, thank you, Mary. in terms of our plans David can you bear for me to talk about future podcasts sure if I leave you'll know it's gone over the edge if we've lost David it all falls apart we have our US Open review show we haven't had time to meet about when we're going to record this it's usually in the couple of days after we get back we're flying tomorrow night we land Tuesday morning I'm going to float Wednesday out there is a probable day to record this show, maybe Thursday. I was going to float Thursday. Let's see how we do. Wednesday or Thursday this week, folks. If you're a friend of the pod, you'll be getting our final Grand Slam Review Show of 2026.

57:13Matt Roberts: They are really special shows. It gives us an opportunity to kind of reflect in a more considered big picture way on the tournament, which it's quite difficult for us to do in the moment when we're just, as Matt says, on power saving mode and reacting to everything. And, you know, that's a special thing in itself. just being present and in the Grand Slam moment, but it's also good to take a step back and reflect on it in a different way. And we do that with the help of voice note messages from our favourite people and some of the best, the very best voices in tennis. We haven't asked anybody yet, but we usually get Mary Carrillo, we get Pam Shriver, we get Team Athletic, Matt Futterman.

57:56And we've not had a chance to speak to them much this time. So it makes me all the more interested to see how they viewed this tournament. So, yeah, the review shows where we'll get to do that.

58:08Matt Roberts: Absolutely. Can't wait for that. We also have six more live YouTube shows for friends of the pod coming in 2026, plus two more editions of Tennis Relived. Loads of other bonus content and benefits to being a friend of the podcast. If you want to become a friend, the link is in our show notes. And for everyone else, our weekly show will be back next Monday. You've got a week, David. And until then, we sleep. Some of it on the plane. Yeah. And then I'll get asked, I need to go somewhere, Dad. Can you take me? I'll be like, sure. No problem. But crucially, David, it won't be at three o 'clock in the morning.

58:50No, that's right. Yeah. I hope not anyway.

58:54Matt Roberts: Exactly. So those are our plans over the coming days and weeks. There is still lots more to come from the Tennis Podcast in 2026. In terms of the US Open, we have the very important bit of business of saying hello one last time to Leo, a dog whose work has been recognised by Mary Carrillo. That dog, she said to us earlier on today, to mark the end of Leo's incredible run as US Open mascot, for which we owe him and Cara a huge debt of gratitude. Here are not one, but two final photos. And trust me, if you're not looking at these photos right now, you want to be subscribed to the newsletter. The link in our show notes.

59:39Matt Roberts: They're on our Instagram. You want to see Leo, folks. Leo the legend. He's been raising the bar the whole way through for mascot photos. and I knew he'd have something up his sleeve for the final day and yet still my jaw dropped to the floor when I saw what Leo had for us today. Here he is with a trophy and with a champion's check for$5 ,500 ,000 made out to Leo, champion mascot. Just incredible stuff. And here we have Leo posing in front of a sort of makeshift Hall of Fame podium with the rackets and everything and a sign that says Tennis History, Mary Carrillo, Roger Federer, Leo. And I can tell you, Leo, that Mary is very, very pleased to have you alongside her in the Hall of Fame.

1:00:36Matt Roberts: Can't speak for Roger, but he would be a monster if he felt any differently. He likes his dogs. Quite frankly. We love you, Leo. Hello to our mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger, hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, some final shout-outs?

1:00:55Catherine Whitaker: Yes, we have Joe Buskowski.

1:01:00Matt Roberts: Right, Joe. Hello, Joe. Is this a contour or a Salisbury?

1:01:07Catherine Whitaker: Salisbury.

1:01:08Matt Roberts: Yeah.

1:01:09Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. J-O-E then. Yes, he, him, Joe says. Gotcha. Thanks, Joe. My partner Emily and I got our first live tennis experience at the US Open women's semis and final the year Coco won. We've never experienced anything so electric.

1:01:27Matt Roberts: Those semis were incredible. Well, the final was awesome too. Wow.

1:01:34Matt Roberts: That fluorescent yellow highlighter pen outfit that Gough had, was that that year? Am I misremembering that?

1:01:42Catherine Whitaker: I feel like in the final she was wearing red. Yes, that rings a bell.

1:01:48Matt Roberts: OK, Jo, sorry. But she has worn that yellow outfit. She had that outfit. Thanks, David.

1:01:58Catherine Whitaker: Jo says, a little bit of trivia, he shares a birthday with Cockinakis. Wow.

1:02:06Matt Roberts: OK.

1:02:07Catherine Whitaker: And he's four days older than Roberto Bautista Ragu. I really enjoyed these niche facts.

1:02:15Matt Roberts: That's a good stat. I'm really pleased that Joe's found an appreciative audience for those niche facts.

1:02:21Catherine Whitaker: You're welcome, Joe. Thank you very much for being a friend of the pod. And finally, we have Mark Hillman.

1:02:27Matt Roberts: Oh, hello, Mark. Hello, Mark.

1:02:29Catherine Whitaker: Who says, I'm from just outside Philadelphia and also from The Predictions. He sure is. Yes, I stole. Well, didn't steal, but I sort of borrowed Marta Kostyuk. I'm sure you're giving her back. I managed to convince Mark to sell Marta Kostyuk to me in the fantasy. And, yeah, she's performed brilliantly, so thanks, Mark.

1:02:56Matt Roberts: I don't know if Mark knows this, but there was a time during the darkest hours of Matt's journey to Chicago that he was thinking that... Wasn't Mark one of your accommodation options?

1:03:12Catherine Whitaker: Mark's parents, I believe. Mark's parents. Does Mark know that? I don't know. Mark had said, if you get stranded, consider my parents as an option.

1:03:24Matt Roberts: And it was a comforting thought in those dark, dark hours trapped on the plane on the tarmac.

1:03:31Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, yeah. And we've had lots of good tennis chats with Mark over the years. And he's always brilliant company in the predictions chat. And, yeah, shout out to everyone in that chat this year as well. It was a lot of fun.

1:03:45Matt Roberts: Yeah. Thank you, Mark. You're a legend. And it's been great to chat to you, to chat tennis with you. And for David, it's been particularly great to have you in the fantasy league. I've got to gloat. I'm still top, aren't I? so I've not had a very good US Open but still I had plenty of room to play with What a mic drop and that is just about it except to say that of course we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and while the US Open may now be over Formula 1 fans still have two races to look forward to in the US in what really looks like it's going to be a thrilling 2026 title run-in this weekend the drivers took on the brand new Mattering Circuit in Spain and you can catch up on all the action there, which I need to do because I've no idea what happened today.

1:04:33Matt Roberts: You can check out our stable mates, the Race F1 podcast, the Race F1 podcast, like us. They're always on site in the thick of the action, covering all the stories that matter as a gripping Formula 1 season edges towards its climax. So you search for the Race F1 podcast to subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Spotify and everywhere else. Folks, we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. It has been our great pleasure and honour and exhausting thrill to bring you daily podcasts throughout this 2026 US Open. Next slam is January in Australia. We will be there. We will be there every day of every slam in 2027.

1:05:16Matt Roberts: And we have plenty of podcasts coming your way between now and then. We are, or we try to be, your one-stop shop for everything tennis. we're gonna get on a bus then we're gonna get on a flight then we're gonna get home and then we're gonna start making podcasts about tennis again but not before we sleep thank you for listening we'll speak to you soon

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