US Open Day 4 - Ostapenko’s words mar Townsend’s win

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1:27Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you from the Billie Jean King National Tennis Centre where it's coming up to 11pm. There is still some play going on on Arthur Ashe and Louis Armstrong Stadiums but rest assured we'll bring you all the important stories from day four of the US Open even if that means a 1am re-record and edit. But if you're hearing this now, that means that hasn't been necessary. Hooray for us. And in terms of stories, there's probably not been a bigger one here today than the one that unfolded on court 11 earlier on this evening in a match involving Taylor Townsend and Yelena Ostapenko.

2:06One by Townsend, 7-5, 6-1, progressing through to the third round. And we had earmarked this match as a potentially brilliant match and a really, really good time. And for that reason, David, you were out there for a lot of this and you were having a lot of fun for a while until the closing stages. And it had felt until that point like we were right in the Elaine Ostapenko aggro sweet spot where we wanted to be, but things curdled.

2:41James Gray: Yeah, things took a turn. And yeah, if we just rewind to when I first went out there, we'd been on court 17, the three of us together, watching another match that you'll come on to talk about, which was of interest. But I'd had my eye on Townsend against Ostapenko all day, really. And at that point, I mean, things were running quickly. It was three love Ostapenko. I thought, crikey, if I don't get over there soon, I could miss basically the heart of the match. So I went over there and by the time I got there, Townsend was working her way back. This place was absolutely jam-packed, court number 11.

3:19James Gray: It's got one big stand and on the other side, it's just sort of standing room on the ground, basically. And it was about six deep. That's where my height comes in handy and I'm able to see over everybody's head. David just has a completely different US Open experience for everybody else because you can beat the crowds. It was great. but anyway I got there the crowd really into it and I could see that Ostapenko was starting to get riled she was starting to miss she was starting to be drawn into Townsend type rallies and if you haven't seen Townsend play that much you may be a sinner in doubles but she's a very crafty left-hander who's able to put angles in and she's got great hands and and she was using her hands to great effect to sort of diffuse the balls that Ostapenko was blasting at her.

4:10James Gray: And at one point, the crowd really getting behind Townsend as she broke back for three-all, that really got to Ostapenko. She hit one winner, and then she went straight up to the front row of spectators who'd been giving vocal support to Townsend, and she sort of screamed in their faces, and it became a real to-and-fro. and then she was, you know, it was sort of pantomime stuff, but it was getting more and more tetchy. But Townsend was turning this match around. She won the first set, 7-5. Ostapenko then left the court for a bathroom break, and it's one of those courts where you, I mean, she walked right past me.

4:50James Gray: You have to just walk through the crowds. There's no sort of stadium that you're in to go to find a bathroom. You just walk with the public to find wherever the loos are. and she was gone for 10 minutes and meanwhile Townsend's just biding her time she looked like she's taken all in her stride she won the next three games did Townsend Yelena Rostopenko called a medical timeout maybe there's something wrong with her I have my doubts I've got to be honest because she she didn't look unwell she didn't look injured doesn't mean she wasn't but she had her temperature taken etc there was another lengthy delay and you know i think the crowd were were disbelieving of this i think townsend was disbelieving it townsend started to jump a skipping rope uh on her side of the court the the crowd started to sing the song this girl is on fire and uh and and that kind of went nicely with the the townsend black dress which had flames coming out of the bottom of it.

5:57James Gray: Really, really spectacular look. Anyway, so this is all happening, and really Townsend is just toying with her, beating her comprehensively. Ostapenko's brain seemed scrambled to me. She was trying drop shots, and she's not really a drop shot player, and they were going in the middle of the net, and it was all going wrong. She lost that set and the match, 6-1. And I sort of thought, OK, I'm just going to wait for the handshake, because I always find it quite funny when you see a Yelena Ostapenko drive-by handshake, you know, where she doesn't even look the opponent into the eye, walks off. I just thought, I'll just see this and then I'll leave.

6:33James Gray: Didn't get that. We got a handshake in which Ostapenko held onto Townsend's hand and said something to her, which made Townsend react and go over to Ostapenko's chair, and then the two of them were in each other's faces. I was over the other side of the court. I couldn't hear anything. But this was prolonged. This was probably 30 seconds worth of confrontation at the chair of Yelena Ostapenko. Then the players separated. Townsend went over to her side of the court, really whipped up the crowd, not only to cheer for her, but also to kind of boo Ostapenko off, not that they needed any encouragement.

7:15James Gray: And there was just very, very loud booing as Ostapenko departed the scene. And Townsend then went over to the ESPN reporter who was there in the corner of the court and didn't interview. And obviously she was asked about what had happened at the net and she immediately explained. And this is audible. Obviously, lots of people have gone back and looked at the broadcast. And Yelena Ostapenko is not denying that she says this, by the way. So we're pretty confident that it is accurate that Yelena Ostapenko said to Taylor Townsend, you have no class, no education, and you couldn't beat me outside of the US.

7:55Incidentally, the head-to-head between them is two and one in Townsend's favour in singles, including a win in Canada last year, which, despite the efforts of Donald Trump, is still outside of the US. So that's all kicked off. Everybody's reeling from everything that David has just described and from the revelations of going back and listening to the broadcast and how clear it seems to be what Elaine Rostepenko has said at the net. At this point, Taylor Townsend gives her her press conference time. She comes in pretty quickly. There's only about half an hour's delay. But in that intervening time, Elaine Rostepenko takes to Instagram and you think, ah, apology incoming.

8:40Not quite. Well, actually, not even close. Her first draft of messages said, small update about the match. Today after the match, I told my opponent, she never even speaks Taylor Townsend's name in this. Today after the match, I told my opponent that she was very disrespectful as she had a netball in a very deciding moment and didn't say sorry. But her answer was that she didn't have to say sorry at all. There are some rules in tennis which most of the players follow and it was the first time ever that this happened to me on tour. If she plays in her homeland, it doesn't mean that she can behave and do whatever she wants.

9:15To be continued, she writes at the end of that post. Next page. In the beginning of the match, all players are supposed to start warm-up on the baseline. The opponent still doesn't name Taylor Townsend. The opponent came out and straight away started the warm-up at the net, which is very disrespectful and against the rules of a tennis match. Thanks, all my fans, for your support. I will come back stronger. situations like that motivate me to work even harder then an hour later she comes in with wow how many messages i've received that i am a racist i was never in all caps racist in my life and i respect all nations in the world for me it doesn't matter where you come from there are some rules in tennis and unfortunately when the crowd is with you you can't use it in a disrespectful way to your opponent unfortunately for me coming from such a small country I don't have that huge support and a chance to play in homeland I always love to play in the US and the US Open but this is the first time someone is approaching the match this disrespectful way now that that last page of Instagram story wasn't out at the time of Taylor Townsend's press conference the first few pages of it were Taylor Townsend hadn't hadn't seen them at the time, but she knew what was up.

10:33She knew exactly what had happened. She wasn't surprised by any of it. And I found it very interesting. We'll talk more about the press conference. I did find it very interesting that up until that final post, Strimulian Ostapenko, which has been a bit delayed, it's come after the sort of initial raft of explanation. there was no mention of race by Ostapenko and there was none by Taylor Townsend either until the very last question of the press conference when she was explicitly asked to comment on whether perceived racial undertones, whether there were perceived racial undertones to what Ostapenko has said.

11:15And yet race hung over this whole grim episode and that, it felt really appropriate actually, I thought, the non-explicitness of it all, because that's so rarely what racism looks like, right? It's so rarely someone intending to sound overtly racist. Far more often it's insipid or unconscious or carries a good amount of plausible deniability with it. But when you're a white woman talking to or about a black woman, it's incumbent upon you to understand the dynamics at play that casually accusing somebody of having no education, which is a pretty popular genre of racist assumption, by the way, is simply unacceptable, regardless of the context or what you intended.

12:06And her lack of acknowledgement of any of those dynamics or even pause to consider them and their role here, regardless of her stated intentions, I'm afraid speaks volumes. volumes and also just finally on the Instagram story the high-handedness of it all is what really bothers me listing all the ways in which Taylor Townsend wasn't properly respecting the rules of tennis as if she is the gatekeeper of what is and isn't tennis well that carries a lot of racial undertones that she should be aware of as well plus a shitload of irony this is Yelena Ostopenko we're talking about, gatekeeping the rules of tennis and how they should be respected.

12:54Pretty staggering stuff, to be quite honest with you. And it was so striking, David, how unshocked Taylor Townsend was by what happened out there today.

13:09James Gray: Yeah, she didn't skip a beat, did she? She's been in this situation before in different ways. But, you know, I actually thought she was pretty generous to Jelena Rostepenko in the way she responded to it. She certainly could have spoken differently, I think, in this press conference about this incident. I was the first one to ask her a question to outline what had happened which was more or less a repeat of what had been said in the ESPN interview there and it was that final question and answer really that I think bears just running through that the question was for a lot of black people hearing no education no class would be interpreted and rightly so as a dog whistle do you believe that that that had racial undertones and for black people and black women who will hear about this and may have dealt with certain situations where they've had comments, where they've interpreted it as more than just competition, what would you say to them?

14:19James Gray: Taylor Townsend responded, I can't speak on what her intentions were. I can only speak on how I handled the situation. She was upset about the outcome that occurred. You lost. You're upset about that. Saying I have no education and no class. I don't really take that personally because I know that it's so far from the truth and so far from anything think. Again, if I allow what other people have to say about me to affect me in that way, then they win. So ultimately, no, I stood up for myself. I kept in mind in the moment how I wanted to portray myself and how I wanted to show up. And if my son were to see this interaction, how would he view it?

14:55James Gray: I think he'd be proud of the way I handle the situation. I'm very strong. I'm very proud as a black woman being out here representing myself and representing us and our culture. I make sure that I do everything that I can to be the best representation possible every time I step on the court so I can't say how she felt that's something that you're going to have to ask her I didn't take it in that way but also that has been a stigma in our community of being not educated and all of the things when it's the furthest thing from the truth the thing I'm most proud of is that I let my racket do the talking because ultimately I'm the one sitting here in front of you guys moving on to the next round getting the next check moving on being able to still be here and speak to you you guys that's what's most important she's packed up and gone so whether it's racial undertones or not that's something she can speak on she's packed up and gone was absolutely iconic wasn't it i mean she is yeah she's she's incredible taylor townsend um and i'm so excited to watch her play tennis again yeah it's um it's great to watch her playing singles like this isn't it because she's a she's the the world number one doubles player this is a woman who has absolutely strung it all together in doubles and she's such a great talent around the net but she has only ever reached one fourth round of a grand slam in singles that was here six years ago she's now in the third round of this tournament and it is a thrill to watch her brand of tennis um and yeah i'm really pleased to see that that she's she's able to make it work in singles i can't i've kind of been waiting for this for a couple of years and she was pretty bullish about her game yeah in that press conference you know obviously it wasn't unfortunately the main topic of discussion but she's feeling herself this US Open.

16:52She does have Mira Andreva next though who is dismissing opponents so far. I mean, okay, different calibre but 6-1, 6-3 over Anastasia Potapova today. She seems to be, Matt, in some form and she seems to be healthy. Yes, and we had doubts about both of those things, didn't we, coming in? particularly the health, considering she hadn't played in a little while. But very impressive, very efficient winning in her first couple of rounds here. I think that's an absolutely fascinating matchup. You know, Taylor Townsend coming forward. I think Andreeva has good hands, will probably be able to handle quite a lot of what Townsend throws at her, but maybe not everything.

17:40And honestly, the last time we saw Andreeva going up against a home player at a slam, she did not handle that occasion well. You know, obviously I'm thinking of the Lois-Boisson match at Roland Garros. So, you know, seeing her back in that situation, OK, would be a little bit different. But that's going to be a really fascinating element of this. just incidentally Ostapenko is in the doubles and is is partnered with Barbora Krejcikova here and obviously no one spoke to Ostapenko after the match today one of the one of the quirks one of the frustrations maybe with the way the system is is done in terms of which players come to press is you have to put those requests in very early there are obviously lots of requests for Taylor Townsend.

18:32No one requested Ostopenko and therefore she went without doing a press conference. But, you know, it's possible that we may hear from Ostopenko in the next few days. And I don't know, I don't really want to hear from Ostopenko at the moment. But at the same time, I think it's, you know, potentially an opportunity for her to right some of those wrongs of those statements on Instagram. I'm not convinced that she will. I think she's got a lot of work to do there, as you said, to realise... Yeah, the hours gap between the statements suggests that in that time, someone said, you've got some making up to do it, Yelena, and that was what she came up with.

19:13It's pretty alarming. Yeah, big time. Moving on, we've been watching Irina Sabalenka having to battle against Polina Kudomitova, the lesser spotted Polina Kudomitova, who is some player, she's faded in this second set, but in the words of Mary Carrillo, she's a real smoothie. Couldn't wait over. I thought that was perfect. I didn't realise she was quite that good, to be honest. And I just, I think it's really easy when you've got siblings, especially when there's one very established sibling and another one comes in the scene, you just sort of think, oh, they'll just be a less good version of their older sister or whatever.

19:56She's a really different player to Veronica. Kudomitova? Yeah, she hits a much flatter ball. I mean, Kudomitova is, sorry, Veronica Kudomitova is quite a flat hitter of a ball, but Polina takes it to a whole new level. And seeing that contrast with Sabalenka was kind of what Mary was getting at in that comment. You know, Sabalenka's power is forced and muscled and absolutely incredible in its own way. But Polina produces his power very differently. It's much smoother. It's sort of a little bit resembled a Rabakina-Sabalenka match-up, didn't it? Which all adds up, doesn't it? And that was what I was thinking through this.

20:39You know, these sorts of players who can generate very flat power, I think we do see them cause Sabalenka some problems. Rabakina is the obvious one. Madison Keyes has played Sabalenka tough in the past and obviously beaten her in a Grand Slam final. and then honestly Polina Kudematova herself got a set off Sabalenka in the Brisbane final earlier this year when she showed flashes of what she showed tonight. But what Sabalenka's got and she was nowhere near her best tonight, she was really struggling on return in particular, she's got her tiebreak record. It is now something that she can really fall back on.

21:21If she can keep these sets close and get them to a tie-break, how many times did we say that about Novak Djokovic? You know, just get it to a tie-break and then the odds turn massively in your favour. Well, she won her 17th tie-break in a row tonight, Savalenka. She's 19-1 on the year in tie-breaks. It's a formidable record. I think she emboldens when she gets in those tie-breaks. I never assume the knowledge of tennis players about general tennis things because they can sometimes be very oblivious to things that we think are incredibly obvious. But I do think there's an aura that builds up. I imagine these players are aware of the Sabalenka tiebreak record and, you know, she's coming out on top of them.

22:10And it's pretty remarkable what she's doing right now. I'm just really, really into that record and seeing whether she can just keep it up. Who is going to be the next person to beat her in a tie break? Well, potentially Lisa Mertens, if Hannah is anything to go by. She's got Leila Fernandez next, Zarina Sabalenka, and then the winner of that to face the winner of the match set up today between Lisa Mertens and Christina Bookshire. Bookshire having ended the Alexandre Ayala fun in the first match of the day four and three for Bookshire over Ayala. The match that we'd all been watching on court 17 earlier before David de-camped to court 11 to be our Taylor Townsend Elayna Ostapenko correspondent was Elena Rabakina beating very talented young Czech player.

23:01I've said those words before. Teresa Valantova, 6-3, 7-6 for Rabakina. and this match kind of, I loved watching it. I really loved watching this match. The press seats on court 17 are, I mean, they're practically on the court. They're like in the photographer's pit and it's both an excellent and non-excellent place to watch tennis. One end of the court is slightly obscured by the umpire's chair. You don't have that sort of big picture sense of what's going on very well, but you do have this incredibly intoxicating, visceral sense of what's going on down one end of the court and what was going on out there was brutal hitting absolutely brutal pummeling of the ball and I thought the the rally tolerance of both women Matt given how hard they were bolting the ball was pretty extraordinary yes agreed I was blown away sitting in those seats actually by by the quality of hitting on display you really noticed how low over the net as well they were both hitting it you know um obviously we're back you know with those flat hits but what impressed me is that sort of we're back in a versus teenager has been a real theme of this year you know we've seen that a lot and one of the big things we've noticed in those matchups has been a huge power gap well it didn't really feel like there was one today you know there was one a little bit Rabatkinu is kind of more powerful than the most players most fully formed players let alone someone up and coming but I really thought Valantova held her own in the power stakes very impressively she's she's quite she's quite vocal as well you know she's quite obviously fighting hard you know that's that's very much a quality that she has and she probably should have won the second set she had multiple set points quite early in the set she had multiple set points again in the tie break after she'd not served it out didn't she and played a horrible game did well to to get to even get it into a tie break really could have all fallen apart there but yeah really impressed with her um i i the ease of her stroke production was very notable her backhand is the more solid wing at the moment the forehand can can go in the net quite a lot.

25:25But yeah, very impressive and certainly one to watch. And for Rabatkaner, who's played a lot of three-set matches recently, to get out of this one in straight sets, I think she'll be pretty relieved, actually. And set up a meeting with her doubles partner, or her brief doubles partner, Emerita Karnu. Not sure they're teaming up again.

25:48James Gray: But it was fun while it lasted in Washington. Yeah, that's right. Washington. Raducanu just manhandled Janice Chen today. 6-2, 6-1. This is emphatic statement stuff from Emma Raducanu through two rounds. Yeah, this is the best tennis we've seen from Emma Raducanu since she won the US Open. That's my assessment. That's four years ago. She hasn't won any matches at the US Open since then until this year. Now, obviously, she was injured one of those, but two first round defeats. But there's just a confidence and clarity of thought to what she's doing out there. She knows what's coming off a racket.

26:34James Gray: She's confident in her body, it seems now. I don't sense niggles or concern that her body's going to break down. And this is the Emirati Karno we've been waiting for the one that I always hoped given enough time and given enough good health could develop now I still think she's got a long way to go in her words she's talked about how she feels that too and it may be too early in the journey for her to knock off Elena Rabakina who is just still one of the premium ball strikers in the world and even if Raducanu reaches her peak and is at her best she could still lose to Elena Rabakina and that is okay because Rabakina is that good yet I think she does have a chance because she's such a clever match player and I'm wondering how she gets the ball out of the strike zone of Rabakina or gets her in a position where she can't always hurt her.

27:34James Gray: I don't know whether she actually can, but if anybody can, she's the type of player I think is able to, because I just think as a constructor of rallies, she really knows what she's doing, and I'm fascinated to see how she gets on in this one. And there was a portion of the Rabakina match today in that second set where her forehand really started spraying and letting her down, and that is the wing where sometimes she can break down Rabatkaner and basically I'm completely in agreement with David like I do think Raducanu will find ways to get the ball on the forehand and put it in slightly awkward positions and I think yes she's taken those two losses to Sabalenka this year just in terms of like players with similar power to Rabatkaner is you know Sabalenka is kind of an obvious example to go to because Raducanu's played her so recently but even in those meetings Raducanu found ways to be able to you know use her defense use her hands get the ball in awkward spots and it took it took some Sabalenka tie-break records you know three of those recent tie-breaks that Sabalenka's won have been against Raducanu and I'm not as high on Rabatkinner in those high-pressure situations as I am Sabalenka.

28:58And I think the way Raducanu's playing right now, I actually think it will be difficult for Rabatkinner to just sweep Raducanu off the court. I think there will be high-pressure, tense moments in this match. And Sabalenka rose to those against Raducanu. I'm not as convinced that Rabatkinner will. And it's interesting, you know, you mentioned the two losses to Sabalenka. of it, it's almost like Raducanu has processed those as victories because getting close to that, getting that close to Irina Sabalenka, the world number one in the manner that she did to her was a victory, were victories. Like she keeps on bringing up, particularly the Canada one, Cincinnati, Cincinnati, but the Wimbledon one as well.

29:46You know, when she's asked about her confidence, she talks about those matches against Sabalenka rather than any particular recent win she's had. It's very interesting. There was also a moment at the start, I think it was the very first question of Raducanu's press conference, where she was asked about avoiding a banana skin in Janice Chen. Apparently Americans, they don't have that phrase here. Did you know that, that banana skin is a very British thing?

30:14James Gray: No, I didn't know that. Let us know. Do you, do, because I feel like we say that quite a lot. Have our American audience been confused all this time? But we don't say potential banana skin, which always slightly winds me up. Yes. Because either you slip on it or you don't. Yes, a banana skin is a banana skin. We've further confused our American audience. Sorry about that. Jasmine Paolini, a winner in the night session tonight on Armstrong. 3-3 for her over Eva Jovic. pretty straightforward here, but it did get fun at the end, sort of in the nick of time. Jovic gave the crowd something to get their teeth into.

30:55She finally broke the Paolini serve. She's got a snazzy sort of bespoke outfit, Paolini. She does, yes. It's a very night session as well. I feel like that's a level up for Paolini, getting her own US Open glitzy kit. Yeah, I think so. after her first round win she was interviewed by Blair Henley and Blair said exactly that what a great kit she was pumped she twirled and showed it off which is just great Paulini vibes I didn't see a huge man of this but I did hear Andrea Petkovic in commentary described as a tactical masterclass by Paulini and really picked out the way that she went after Jovic second serve in particular I think she was just a threat on return all night and maybe didn't quite have her best ball striking, but, you know, she's a smart player who's won a lot of matches in the last 18 months or so and she put those things into practice tonight.

31:59It's Marquetta von Droshova next for Jasmine Paolini. It's a great section of the draw. Who is just quietly having a mini-eruption. I don't know if third round counts as an eruption. McCartney Kessler is a tough opponent to beat. She's brewing up to an eruption. put it that way and that's the Rabakina Raducanu yeah so the winner of Paulini Vondroshova faces the winner of Rabakina Raducanu and that is a fun section of this tour oh it's so good yeah really great we had a win for Jessica Bagula in the first match of the day on the Arthur Ash Stadium she beat Anna Blinkova that's a banana skin avoided yeah 6-2 6-3 and she now plays Victoria Azarenka who beat Anastasia Pavliotra Pashenkova today in a match that took place in 2009.

32:49Three and three. Didn't watch much of this, but Hannah, of course, watched every ball. And said that Pavlyuchenkova was really struggling physically in this one. Said a very tough year of health, Pavlyuchenkova.

33:04James Gray: Azarenka ranked 132 in the world at the moment. That's how tough times have been for her. But I love the fact that she's still out here and she's getting through to the third round like this. Still hungry for it. Barbora Krejcikova, the other kind of really notable winner on the women's side today. She beat Muka Uchijima comfortably 4-2 and faces Emma Navarro next. So we've got some good little match-ups being set up. Brewing nicely, isn't it? Yeah, brewing nicely. Like a cup of English tea. Yes. Right, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about the men.

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35:47Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast, where players wrapped up for the day. Sabalenka's won, Ben Shelton's won. Comfortable in the end for them both. In fact, Ben Shelton, comfortable throughout. He looked great tonight against Pablo Carreña Busta. Before we get into the matches that we've seen today, you should probably start with the Jack Draper news that dropped early afternoon today, his withdrawal ahead of his scheduled second round match with ZZ Berg's. I mean, a surprise and not a surprise. I suppose more not a surprise than surprise, David.

36:27James Gray: Yeah, I mean, certainly on the whole, given the injury that he's described having to his arm and the fact that it's kept him out since Wimbledon and the fact that he's talked about having pain and playing through it and so forth. The surprise comes because after the first round match where he lost the set and he was talking about how I need sets and I wanted to lose that set in a way so I could have another one, I assumed he was good to go, really, at least to play. So I guess once you've played an intense match, then there's the period of how does the body react to it because you just haven't done it for such a long time.

37:07James Gray: And there we are. it must have flared up and that's dispiriting for him isn't it because for the first time we were talking earlier about how emir adekano is finally able to piece matches together and not have to think about physicality and really for for a good six or eight months it's felt like that with jack draper and look what he's achieved look look at the title he won and the and the the ranking he's managed to put together and we're back where we were he's back where he was and and it and i bet it's a tough one to swallow. Yeah, and on reflection, I think Matt's take a few days ago, I think on the eve of the tournament, about the pressure of having this new kit sponsor and what a big deal that is for him and what a big deal it clearly was for Rory.

37:55I can't believe that that wasn't a factor in him deciding to play here at all. I don't think it's as binary as someone from Rory picking up the phone and saying, better not pull out of this tournament, Jack, because your face is all over Manhattan. I don't think that happened at all but he will have been aware of the atmosphere of you know he'll have been aware of all the plans being made and everything but it's like calling off a wedding isn't it it's like leaving someone at the altar and that's that's a tough thing to do it does just make me worry about the rest of the season for Jack Draper not that I judge him for being susceptible to that pressure but like there's going to keep being pressures like that he'll be desperate to qualify for Turin yeah absolutely desperate and and he's got points to defend in Vienna coming up and he's already sat on the sidelines for big chunks of his early stages of his career and watched his peers go past him like I think he's going to find this hard and it's going to be a real test of

39:01James Gray: his decision making yeah and we've had a few of them this year and he's actually been quite cautious in terms of not playing certain events which which i think is sensible i think he gets it and and that makes me think it's not all about just ranking points and prize money um and and even even if he were to to think well no no it's it's not the clothing thing that's not what it what it is i mean i do think that all feeds into the sort of general sense of anxiety of responsibility and so forth but he is a natural born competitor who wants to be maximizing his opportunity to make the most of his incredible talent and the fact that he's kind of cracked it this year in the last 12 months jack draper has proved he's a top five player in the world who can hurt people and who could maybe win a grandstand tournament.

39:57James Gray: And it's not like the time's ticking down, but this is where he wants to be doing it. He's a young man who's got it all before him, and now his arm is stopping him to play tennis. It must be gutting. And I agree with you. How do you handle this? I don't know what the physical diagnosis and prognosis is, what the most sensible course of action is. But there's a big part of me that just wishes he would see us in January. And, you know, I know there's loads of points and there's loads of prizemen and all the rest of it. But if him coming out for the Australian Open in January, 100 % fit, was the option, personally, I'd be taking that.

40:45Yeah, play the long game. Same with Art of Feast. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Big parallels there. Let's start at the top and Novak Djokovic, who played first match of the day on the Arthur Ashe Stadium today. And when that schedule came out yesterday, we all raised an eyebrow and wondered when the last time we saw Djokovic play first on any court anywhere was, quite frankly. And then when he actually stepped out onto the court in the full sun, and obviously the fact that he lost the first set very much added to this, but it looked even weirder, I think, than we thought it would. Like, it was really weird seeing Djokovic play in that time slot.

41:28It was, yeah. And he made a little comment in his post-match interview saying, thanks for coming so early. That's very Dividovich McKinney. And look, I had very similar feelings watching him today as I had watching him the other night, which was that for quite a significant portion of the match, he looked there for the taking. You know, and against Lerner Tien, it was the second set. Today, it was, you know, front-loaded. It was the start of the match and into the second set. And the start of the third set even was not very convincing from him. the main take I had is that Djokovic for so long had a superpower which was forcing players to do something out of their comfort zone against him to go for broke or to do something that they're not used to because their normal game is just simply not going to cut it against Novak Djokovic in the words of Matthew are a camera operator at Wimbledon and general friend.

42:44People shit themselves. Right. And there's very much a degree to which Djokovic makes them do that. Absolutely. But they do. And Matthew is always right with his blunt takes. But what it felt like to me, And look, I don't claim to be a big expert on Zachary Schweider's game, but it seemed to me that he was playing very much within himself in that first set. He looked very at ease, really. He looked like he was doing the things that he was comfortable doing, and they were working against Novak Djokovic. And he had a slight look of, wow, it's working against Novak Djokovic. I'm holding serve. I'm sticking with him.

43:34I'm threatening. I'm in a tiebreaker. I've won the tie break. And that did not used to happen. You know, you used to, players might do that and play out of their skin and get a set against Novak Djokovic. He was getting a lot out of his serve today at the start of the match, which was impressive, and he's a lovely, clean ball striker, good mover, very balanced, very well-rounded, I think. But he's not got big weapons, and yet he didn't need to deploy them. Djokovic was dejected and down and not really doing much with the ball. And just, as I said, there for the taking. The match flipped. Svayda started cramping and Djokovic won, I think, 11 out of 12 games at one stage towards the end.

44:16Like, it was comfortable in the end for Novak Djokovic. But for a long portion at the start, it wasn't. And you're kind of waiting for the guy who's got the higher level than Tien. and then Schweider who can play that game. And can Djokovic respond to it, I think is going to be the answer because he's not happy with how he's playing. He's not happy with the level he's bringing right now. Yeah, and that was what he told Matt Futterman in answer to his final question to Djokovic in the press conference today. There were only four questions, weren't there? Because he gave such long answers and most of the questions weren't really, you know, totally fair enough questions, but he gave such long, winding answers about the balls and another one about winning the Canada Slam.

45:08And then finally, Matt Futterman gets him in there with a question. Basically, like... You look really miserable. Yeah, you don't look like you're having fun here, Novak. Like, nobody's got a gun to your head. Kind of, why are you here? And, like, are you as miserable as you look? And he basically said, I don't enjoy playing badly or playing the way that I am, right? Yeah, I think he is a perfectionist, yes.

45:36James Gray: But I think he's also a tennis specialist, expert, genius. He's somebody who wants to feel the ball on this racket. He wants to play like he knows he can, like he has done for 20 years. he doesn't like this feeling of being out on the court and playing rubbish or playing in his words sort of just it's just not there he's not doesn't feel right and I think it really pisses him off I think it really just gets him bit down and and and I think he's he's searching at the moment he's searching for the level that will make him his heart beat calm down on the court you know when Talk about the liquid tennis and the trampoline strings.

46:26James Gray: It's like a different mode of Novak Djokovic altogether, and he's nowhere near it at the moment. It doesn't mean he won't get there. There's maybe a small parallel to draw with the Australian Open this year where he came into that tournament really out of form. He'd lost to Raleigh Opelka in Brisbane, hadn't he? And his first two matches there against Basavareddy and Farrier, He lost sets, he was not looking good at all, and then he played Thomas Mahatch and absolutely destroyed him and started timing the ball. I do think a difference is that he's just a lot more comfortable in Australia, and that does tend to be a place where he plays better tennis.

47:06He's obviously won this tournament not that long ago. It's not like he can't play well in New York in these conditions. But I don't know, there's just something about him where I think I assumed in Australia his level would improve. I'm not convinced it's going to here. It'd be better than it was at its absolute worst. But it needs to get a lot better if he's going to be a factor. The way he's talking isn't fooling me with conviction that he thinks it's going to improve. He's hoping rather than expecting. I think if he's there for the taking, is Cam Norrie up to the task of taking him?

47:46James Gray: Well, there you see, I think what we might see against Cam Norrie, because I think he carries more threat, I think that might bring out the real Djokovic. And a little bit like how we talked about with Alcaraz and Radia Pelka and needing to be on it. I think the truth is he knows when he's playing these guys. Not that he's not consciously letting down or anything like that, but there's not quite the urgency because he will assume that he will get there. And so it proved. I mean, we saw the end of that first set and it was like, oh, my word, he's lost the set. I go away for a little while and he's won the second set and it's 6-3.

48:28James Gray: And suddenly he's just, oh, look, this guy is nowhere near the level of Cam Norrie. So the threat isn't the same, but therefore the required response isn't the same. And I think there are two possibilities for sure. There's a chance that Norrie plays well and really grinds him down and he can't find it. For whatever reason, it's just not there. And Norrie's going to be good enough to take advantage of that. or, and I suspect this is what will happen, is Djokovic will just automatically respond because the threat is greater. Very interesting. Let's talk about Carlos Alcaraz. Very little to talk about for once with Carlos Alcaraz.

49:15He was that good. 6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 6-3 over Mattia Bellucci. I played great, to be honest, was Alcaraz's assessment of himself on the court after the match. And I agree with him. He played great. Hasn't had his serve broken through six sets, Matt. It's new Alcaraz. I'm not going to start talking about him as a serve bot because then he'll hit, you know, three double faults in a row in his opening game of his next match and make us all look silly. But, like, I have been impressed with the flow, the rhythm of his serve. and today he was maybe better than great. He was absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, he was unreal.

49:57Particularly in those first two sets. He was so good. We were very much enjoying listening to the Mary Crillo commentary and at one point on that broadcast they were talking about what can Bellucci do and someone suggested try an underarm serve and it was that desperate for Bellucci. There was just no answer that he had to our crowds and there was just nothing that he could do because Alcarez was just so superior and yeah, maybe this is the tournament that we've been thinking might eventually happen where he just sort of bulldozes his way through and takes care of people and doesn't have the lapses.

50:39There was no indulgent tennis out there, was there? It'd be very easy to get involved with a guy like Bellucci. Yeah, he just dominated it. Faff-free tennis. Faff-free hair, Faff-free tennis. The marine. And the hair. It already looks better. Yeah, it's already grown to a... Just looks like a normal... It looks intentional. Looks like it could have been intentional now.

51:01James Gray: Normal buzz cut. Looks like Alvaro is off the hook for his failure. He's still looking a bit sheepish. He is, isn't he? How did he word it? He misunderstood with the machine. So good. I messed up my card payment earlier and, you know, just obviously apologised and all that kind of thing. And then I walked away thinking, oh, why didn't I say, sorry, I misunderstood with the machine. Didn't have it in the moment. Got to get it at your fingertips. Taylor Fritz, rather less comfortable today against Lloyd Harris. 46766264, didn't watch every ball of this. I mean, well done, anybody that did watch every ball of this, because this was a grind.

51:47I know Lloyd Harris is that kind of player. He doesn't really miss, does he? He's really solid. And he is having a little bit of a resurgence, isn't he? And look, Taylor Fritz is an incredible backboard. His rally tolerance is incredible. And that is a real skill. But I felt a bit like I have done with Medvedev this year, watching him today. like, God, I'm sure you used to hit winners. I'm sure you used to be able to end rallies in a way that you're not doing right now.

52:22James Gray: Yeah, he didn't look that convincing for quite a lot of this. I mean, he goes a set down. It was a bit dicey in the second set as well. He just looked like he wasn't completely sure of what was coming off the strings in the way that he was a year ago. and yet I always thought he would find a way to win the match. I mean, this is a guy who's several rungs below in terms of class. He said in his press comments, I've known Lloyd for years and he's a really consistent player and I don't think he relished it massively, the prospects of it, because the only win is to progress really, isn't it? I mean, you want to play well, but all the pressure's on you.

53:07James Gray: So it's just a match you need to navigate. And he did in the end. I think we've got to bear in mind as well, Taylor Fritz has missed some tennis this year and he's also had injuries. He hasn't had the results that he's had in the past. He's kind of searching a little bit at the moment. But if he stays in this draw and works his way through, he becomes dangerous. Yeah, he has the conqueror of Brandon Nakashima in the next round, the Swiss world number 175, Jerome Kim, who I know nothing about. We watched the tie break, didn't we? And he certainly went for it and took his chance. So fair play to him.

53:53Thomas Mahatch took very easy care of Joel Fonseca, 7-6, 6-2, 6-3. I found this a bit of a bummer seeing Joel Fonseca and his troop of Brazilian fans exit the tournament in such sort of disappointing fashion. But Matt loved it. Honestly, so many people today have told me that I shouldn't be excited about this result. And I don't know. I think people are forgetting how fun to watch Thomas Mahatch is when he's playing like this. He was superb today. And look, the Fonseca vibes, when they're good, are amazing. But they haven't been good for a while. And frankly, he was totally outplayed today by Mahatch, who, you know, I spoke about players recently who've been able to rush Fonseca, and they've done it with their serve, Atman and Jarry.

54:55Mahatch did it with his return and with his ground strokes. That guy's eye for being able to pick up the flight of the ball early and take the ball early is something else. And he was rushing Fonseca so much today. He was coming into the net a lot, Mahatsheb. And his success rate up there was extremely good. And, you know, with his sliding defence and with his, you know, net game, he just had a lot of variety. And he made Fonseca look pretty one-dimensional. He made him look like just a big hitter who wasn't finding his spots all that much. And it was clinical. Mahaksh made good decisions, which doesn't always happen.

55:38He kept it together, even when Fonseca started coming back at him in the third. He fended off the break points. Honestly, he's playing great, Mahaksh. He's absolutely taken two opponents there, Nardi and Fonseca. He's taken them apart. Like one closed set, but otherwise he's won easily. And yes, yes, it might all come crashing down in the next round. I think I've got down on my hatch. Let's enjoy the moment. I think I've got down on my hatch because it's all come to feel quite irrelevant recently. Can he make himself relevant? This is an opening in the draw. He's got Hugo Blanchet next, who's just taken four hours and 23 minutes to beat Jakub Mensik.

56:21and then the winner of that faces the winner of Jerome Kim against Taylor Fritz, who we've talked about not being the guy that reached the final here last year. He's got an opening. Can he take it? I certainly think he's going to play Taylor Fritz. The big prediction that he'll beat the remains of Hugo Blanchet. And you think Fonseca would have done loads better? No, I don't. No, I don't. But it's a shame that Fonseca wouldn't have done loads better. It's a shame that Fonseca wasn't better today. It's a shame that we're not going to see the Brazilian fans again. Yeah, but that's like a Fonseca thing.

57:03That's nothing to do with Mahatch.

57:04James Gray: Sure. Mahatch, I do think, has the ability to beat Fritz. He's done it before. Right. Nobody doubts his ability. When I think back to the interview I did with him right at the start of the year when he was talking about how he'd played Fritz and that he was in the rallies with him and he felt like he was getting the better of them. He's just so exciting when he's on and he just hasn't been on for most of the year. I say he's beaten Fritz before. He hasn't beaten Fritz before. He should have beaten Fritz. I'm talking about that match at the United Cup where he was winning. And that's the one I'm talking about.

57:48James Gray: You know, because I remember just in the interview I had with him, he was just so bullish about how he felt in the rallies. And this is the closest he's been to that level since. I think we're all forgetting the enormous egg he laid here last year. Oh, we're not. We were talking about him in similar terms. Don't worry. It's just that... Not forgetting it. It's etched on my brain. It's the possibilities that we can't get away from. No more possibilities for either the 11th or the 12th seed in this year's US Open. Holger Runa and Kasper Rude both crashing out today. Tough scene for Scandinavia. Five set losses.

58:26Rude to the Belgian. Raphael Collignon, 7-5 in the fifth. And same scoreline in the fifth set for Holger Runa, losing out to Jan-Leonard Struff, who, for him, it was his first top 20 win all year. I mean, look, they both played inspired opponents today who put in great performances, but shouldn't be happening, should it, second round of feats?

58:55James Gray: I just thought, particularly just watch, I've watched the last few games of the Strouff against Runa match. They don't take it. They play solid tennis. They've hit big shots when they're pushed into corners. but Strouft just took it Strouft just imposed his game on Roona and that's the difference at that level you shouldn't be allowing players to do that to you you need to take the initiative and for Roode which was I watched that match more closely the final game of this was extraordinary because Collignon's broken to go up in the fifth set, he's serving for it. But he gave Rude a chance to get the break back.

59:48You know, he was double faulting all over the place. He was so obviously nervous. This was clearly the biggest moment of his career. He'd never faced someone in the top 20 before. He had a 4-3 record against people in the top 100 did Collignon before this. This is such a big level jump for him. He's obviously nervous in this situation. And Rude just couldn't put the ball in the court. I mean, he's just shanking the ball. And I just thought, gosh, this guy is so far from where he was. You know, he wasn't even able to make Colignan play for it. He wasn't even able to just assert pressure by making shots.

1:00:29He just fell apart, Rude, right at the end. And yeah, he obviously had that tremendous high earlier in the year winning Madrid. But that aside, his game really, really looks in a bit of a state right now. So, yeah, like kind of shocks that aren't shocks, really. Francis Tiafoe, four-set winner over Martin Dam, Jr., who it turns out is coached by Martin Dam, Sr. How did we ever doubt that the two Martin Dams were related?

1:01:03James Gray: I just needed a bit of reassurance that my gut was right. And Arta Rindeknes, a five-set winner of Alejandro Davidovic Fikina, inspired by his walk to the locker room with David Law. Correct. He's Rindeknes. Yep. And he now plays Benjamin Bonzi. Who had a crazy win. I mean, he was really struggling physically at the end of that match against Medvedev, wasn't he? And today he went two sets and a breakdown. I thought, well, he is dumb. Like, clearly he's just physically cooked here. But actually what happened is that Marcus Girone was the one who was more physically cooked in the latter stages. And Bonzi has now won back-to-back five-set matches.

1:01:45He's probably quite pleased to have been a bit less in the spotlight today. Yeah, fair play, Benjamin Bonzi. By the way, just on Jakub Mensik, who you mentioned. We got a bit of a check assessment of him today, didn't we? We got...

1:02:06We got head and forehand. Yes, what's going wrong, head and forehand? Yeah, no plan B. And we got a list of the close matches that he's lost. I think our colleague reeled off a Borges match, a Russia match, a Davidovic-Fakina match, and he said, I could go on. and honestly like Menchik's got a problem here he's one and six in his career in fifth sets he keeps losing tight matches I think it's one of those is it physical is it mental how do you separate those two things I think you know our colleagues obviously said head I think he's thinks it's pretty mental but forehand there's a bit of a technical weakness there which is exposed in these tight situations.

1:02:54Yeah, one and six in fifth sets in his career. And the only five-set win in his career that he's had was against Tristan Shaw-Hatte.

1:03:09Perfection, Matt. On that note, we end part two. We'll be back in part three to look ahead to tomorrow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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1:04:26Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast on day four of the U.S. Open. We have a day five to look ahead to. Good luck, Susan Lammond. She opens the Arthur Ashe Stadium tomorrow against Igor Svantec. Go with God, Susan. That is followed by day session, Yannick Sinner against Alexey Popperin. He pulled off an upset here last year, Popperin. I'm not suggesting you might predict an upset here, but I am just wondering how competitive, potentially, you think Alexey Popperin has the capability to make this. Whether he'll bring what he brought last year against Djokovic. Do you remember last year's Davis Cup, when we all wanted Leighton Hewitt to do something fun with his team and leave out Alex Dimonor so that he would manipulate the team so that Alexi Popperin could play Yannick Sinner because Yannick Sinner always beats Alex Dimonor.

1:05:27It felt like they had no chance there. But Popperin has got a win over Yannick Sinner. So we were just intrigued to see whether Leighton Hewitt would do that. Of course he didn't. Alex Dimonor is his guy. he's never going to drop him and we didn't see it. But I remember them being intrigued. Like, you know, but I think it might go not in such an extreme manner, but I think we might get similar quotes from Alexey Popperin as we had from Felix Orjali Asim, who had a winning record over Yannick Sinner a few years ago and now comes up against this version of Yannick Sinner and realises just how much better he's got.

1:06:08I think Popperin will bring it. I think he likes this stage. I think he'll play well. I don't think it's going to be a Vite Capriva situation. But, you know, they're running back, Fiontek and Sinner, in the day session. They're determined to get past 3pm. And I think they will, I guess is what I'm saying. I think Popperin will at least extend it, have a couple of moments. but I think the most likely outcome is Sinner and Straits. Night session is Donna Vekic against Coco Goff. I think that scheduling is pretty big for Vekic and her chances in this.

1:06:47James Gray: Yeah, I do too. I think day session would have helped Goff. I think you'd get more out of the court, more out of the conditions. And Donna Vekic, it's not hot here anyway, really, relatively speaking, is it? But Vekic is going to like the fact that she's going to be playing under the lights and it's not going to be hot at all. And she can tee off and she likes a big stage herself. Absolutely fascinating. Yeah, it feels like it's sort of a match where you don't need a best of five set match involving Nuno Borges and Tommy Paul to come on afterwards. But that is the situation we'll be in tomorrow night.

1:07:25That's the second Arthur Ashe Stadium night match. Armstrong opens with Lorenzo Mazzetti against Avi Goffin. stylish. Lovely match. Lovely, lovely match. And second on day session for Haidee Baptiste against Naomi Osaka. Great match. I wonder if Osaka requested this so she could wear her day dress. Get it in before she's out. Sounds definitely possible. Yeah. That's where I'll be for the second match of the day tomorrow, that's for sure. And the night session tomorrow is Alexander Zverev against Jacob Fernley, followed by the backhand list off. Second on the night session. Tough scheduling for Matt Roberts.

1:08:03Anisimova against Joint. But I will be there. DBC on me and David. Grandstand opens with Andre Rublev against Tristan Boyer. We've got Kisteja, Mukova. We've got Sitsipas, Altmaier, the final match on Grandstand tomorrow. That could be stylish as well. Stadium 17 is where you find Hadadj Maier against Golubich. Brooks, Speaker, Bollie. I reckon David's going to sneak out for some Brooksby Kabali. If I know David Law.

1:08:33James Gray: I think I'll be otherwise engaged with Naomi Osaka, to be quite honest. But you never know. Well, I think they'll be... I think you might just get tempted, though. Yeah, I predict you're going to watch some Kabali. Probably. Dario Kazekino against Camilla Rakimova and Alex de Mino against Shinzo Mochizuki. The final match on 17 tomorrow. Remember when I briefly thought Mochizuki was the best player in the world? just fun to see him in the second round of a slam. Absolutely, yeah. He is a fun player. He is fun. I stand by that. Court five, Noskova against Iva Lees. Might try and catch a bit of that.

1:09:10You've got Felix Orgelia Seam playing out on court five tomorrow. And you've got doubles everywhere. We have arrived at that stage of the tournament. Gabriel Diallo against Jaume Munar on court seven. Denis Shapovalov is out there. Laura Siegmund, folks, is second on court ten tomorrow. against Anastasia Zakharova. She's probably lose to her. She has got a wacky serve. Yes. Can't wait. Very bizarre service motion. In fact, that could be a wacky match. Second on court 10, folks. We'll be here with the podcast at the end of it all. Of course, it will be our pleasure to do that. TBC on whether Matt Roberts will be on it.

1:09:51It might be otherwise engaged. Can we tear you away from Anastasia Zakharova joint to do a podcast? No, the pod will have to wait. That's a discussion. Matt will be on the pod, folks. Don't you worry. I'm recording through and it's I'm over. Yeah, I think you might be. Well, then I'm not on the pod. It's the road to blonde. I've got to be there. Disagree. To be discussed, Matt Roberts. Hello to our mascots, Phoebe Mazie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg. Chris and Jeff, we're going to leave shout-outs to tomorrow because we've got a bus to catch. And if we don't catch it, that'll cost us half an hour of sleep.

1:10:35And Matt's apparently going to cost us all sleep tomorrow night watching Amanda Anasimov. So better prioritise sleep tonight. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we will be back at some point tomorrow. All right.

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