US Open Day 8 - Alcaraz vs. America

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1:10Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you from Tennis Podcast Towers, New York after a cracking day of fourth round action at Flushing Meadows. If you don't already know, I'm Catherine Whittaker and alongside me are my comrades, David Law and Matt Roberts, bringing you daily shows throughout this and every Grand Slam of the tennis season. And after one of the most brutal starts to a slam that we can remember in terms of late finishes, here we are recording at 10 p.m. What are we going to do with the many hours until 4am when our body clocks are expecting us to go to sleep?

1:48Catherine Whitaker: I will be overriding that body clock and going to sleep. That's the plan. Anyway, folks, we are we are catching up with normality one day at a time. Let's start with the men's side of things today. and after a tough scene yesterday with Taylor Fritz bombing out unexpectedly, a fantastic set of American results today. Three of the four men that have come through this bottom half of the draw and into the quarterfinals today are American. Francis Tiafoe, Alex Mickelson and Ben Shelton. In theory, a 75 % chance of an American man reaching the final from this half of the draw. The problem for them is that the one non-American is Carlos Alcaraz.

2:37And he, David, put on the performance of the day. 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 to beat poor old Tommy Paul, the only American man to be unsuccessful today. Tell us about this Alcaraz performance. I don't think it could have got any better other than if he'd have just taken all of his breakpoint chances. I think he sealed about four out of 14. But the fact that he set up 14 break points in three sets tells its own story. I don't even think Tommy Paul played badly in this match. He was disappointed with elements of it in his post-match press conference. But he said, even if I'd have got those right, that doesn't mean I was going to win.

3:21He started off in incredible fashion. I mean, this is a guy who'd beaten Alcraz in two of their first three matches on hard courts in North America. And, you know, they always have good looking matches.

3:37David Law: He's one of those players that feels like he can move with Alcraz to a degree. He's a shot maker. He likes flair. He likes these sort of rallies, these impossible passing shot rallies. it's just that Al Kraz does the same thing and about 30 % better at least and if you look at the record I think it was 11 sets in a row that Al Kraz had won coming into this particular match so that kind of leveled things out and then some after the early struggles for Al Kraz but still Paul came out and he was feeling it out there in front of the New York crowd which was full and he was the one who got the gasps from around the net post forehand down the line on the full run, on the full stretch, hitting it sort of between the umpire's chair and the net post right into the corner.

4:33David Law: It was the most incredible shot and the crowd were going wild for him and that's when it was on serve in the early first four or five games of this match. And you're thinking, okay, well, he's playing, He looks like he's playing as well as he can. Al Krause is fine at the moment. It feels competitive. And then suddenly Al Krause put his foot down. And he made Tommy Paul look ordinary. It was astonishing. It didn't look like Tommy Paul's game could trouble Al Krause in any way. It didn't matter what shot he hit, Al Krause had an answer to. He was too fast. He was too powerful. His touch was a joke.

5:13David Law: I mean, he hits several forehand drop shots moving backwards in the court when he's just sort of shaped up as if he's going to blast a forehand. And you have no clue that the drop shot has come in until the last second. You talked at the start of this tournament, Catherine, and he did in his press conference about his freshness of mind at this stage of the tournament, the stage of the year where everybody's so fried, everybody's hanging on. and he's had five months without playing the sport and he's loving being back Alcraz and that is coming out in his tennis I think fortunately there doesn't appear to be any lingering issues with the with the wrist so what you're left with is a fresh best player we've ever seen or one of them and poor old Tommy Paul just had no answers at the end of it he we've talked before about how how does he go away and work even harder in the offseason?

6:12David Law: Because this is a guy who doesn't leave any stones unturned. How can he think, well, if I just do this better or do that, I can catch this guy in the annex center. You can't. I don't think he does, Tommy Paul. I mean, Tommy Paul is the guy that in that ATP social video, when asked to pick the winner of this US Open, didn't pick himself. You know, Taylor Fritz picked himself. Francis Tiafoe picked himself. Tommy Paul picked, I think, Novak Djokovic. maybe Carlos Alcraz. Anyway, definitely not himself. I think Tommy Paul is both able to be sort of ambitious in terms of maximising, but also a realist.

6:52Whereas someone like Taylor Fritz or Francis Yapo needs to be, well, some might say delusional. I don't know. They certainly need to believe that, don't they? Exactly. As we always say, the line between delusion and self-belief is paper thin in tennis and probably all of sport. But, you know, I think Tommy will be okay. There was such a revealing line from Alcaraz in his press conference, wasn't there, Matt, where he, I mean, he was very complimentary about Tommy Paul. I think he loves playing him. I think he loves the way their matches feel, not because it's not tough, but he said, Tommy's kind of the benchmark.

7:31Tommy's a great test for me to know where my game is at. Yeah, he said, Tommy Paul is always great feedback. Yeah. Which I think was absolutely meant as a compliment, but it came across as quite damning, you know, in terms of, yeah, I'll test myself. I'll see where I'm at. I'm not going to lose, but I will know where I'm at having come out of playing Tommy Paul. And yes, and I think Tommy Paul was interesting on how he felt like early in their rivalry he could have success he kind of talked about some tactical things that he used to do against Carlos Alcarez which which worked but they don't work

8:13Catherine Whitaker: anymore because Alcarez has got better in the time since since Paul had that bit of success against him a few years ago and I think my favorite game of the entire match there were a lot to pick from because Alcaraz was, as David's described, just in great form throughout. But my favourite game was actually the final one because he was love 30 down trying to serve it out and then he was 15, 40 down. And the shot making he came up with in that final game, there was an amazing one of those drop shots that David's talked about. There was a drive volley and there was a thunderous forehand that just absolutely ripped through the court.

8:56Catherine Whitaker: And Jim Currier in the World Feed commentaries said, oh, he's got a he's got a thirst for danger in these in these big moments when he's when he's under threat. He goes for fearless shots. And we maybe didn't see that in the first round as he was still coming back after so long. but it hasn't taken that long you know and to me david you mentioned federer to me this was the federer against burdick at the 2017 australian open moment where he just clicked into a gear that he'd had flickers of through this tournament but he sustained it for a whole match and it felt like the tournament changed you know i remember federer in 2017 and obviously the reason we're talking about that as the comparison point is because that was Federer's first tournament back in a long time after an injury and his first two rounds were scratchy he played Jürgen Meltzer and Noah Rubin.

9:59Scratchy than Alcaraz's have been even.

10:01Catherine Whitaker: Yeah I would say so but Djokovic had gone out then against Denis Isterman I remember Federer coming out and playing Burdick and he absolutely wiped the floor with him and at that point in his career bird it was good feedback for federer there'd been a time when bird it was a threat to federer but he'd weathered that rivalry and he was now good feedback for him and he was flowing and it felt like oh my god federer might be able to win this tournament i think we were already thinking alcaraz could win this tournament But to me, he became a real favourite. And I'm no longer really thinking about Alcaraz in terms of rust or in terms of this being a huge opportunity for someone to beat a below par Alcaraz.

10:46Catherine Whitaker: It now feels like someone is going to have to do what we've been talking about for a couple of years and step it up and raise it and meet Carlos Alcaraz at that level. and good luck, everyone, because, you know, Alcarez is seriously informed. This was a performance that would have sat comfortably within his 2025 US Open run, I think, which we talk about is his kind of, you know, he's won slams not playing his best tennis. I mean, his not best tennis is still extraordinary, but he's won slams being pretty in and out and scratchy, but we kind of hold up US Open 2025 as his real maturing in terms of just locking in, head down.

11:33It was professional. It was disciplined. It was still electric. But it's the Alcaraz gold standard. And today could have been one of those matches. Yes, I think in every department apart from the serve. You know, like the serve last year was clicking on a level that it actually never really has for Alcaraz in his career. He was brilliant with that shot at that tournament and the pace was so high. I still can't really work out whether he just can't crank the serve up to the to the pace that he was at consistently or he's choosing not to.

12:12Catherine Whitaker: but he wasn't doing it again today it was it was often a shot that was you know i don't know 80 85 percent of his actual pace and even the second serve he's being pretty predictable and safe with it but the rest of his game was was absolutely like it was last year i would say but it's going to be interesting whether he can win this tournament with a serve at 80 85 percent of what it can be maybe there are players left in the draw who might be able to expose that if he can't increase it yeah it's very possible that he's holding it back until he needs it i don't really know why though i mean we you do see that with ben ben shelton either obviously we're going to come to talk you know big servers they do you know it's it's not necessarily safe or healthy to deploy it had its biggest all the time.

13:12I think that's an element of it. I remember asking Shelton about that two years ago, about how his game had changed, and that he said, I don't always want to be going for the fastball. Part of it is self-preservation. I don't want to hurt my shoulder by going full out all the time. Halcrast doesn't need, and in his case, he's got a specific wrist problem that's kept him out for five months. If he can not go full out and still win comfortably, that's a more efficient way of getting to where he wants to be. And he might have to go full out at some point. Yeah.

13:50Catherine Whitaker: I guess I'm just finding it interesting that it's only the serve where we've seen that. Like, we've not seen any holding back on the forehand in the last few matches. He's absolutely blasted some of those. it's not as repeatable as the serve. He's not having to do it all the time in the way that he would have to with the serve if he's always going after it. But I also just wonder whether there's something in the fact that the serve has always been the shot that Alcaraz has tinkered with the most and felt the most difficulty with in his career. And maybe it's just the last thing to come back. And if there is a little bit of doubt that he talked about having at the start of the tournament with his wrist.

14:32Catherine Whitaker: If that's just there a tiny bit, maybe it's the serve where it is going to take the longest to come back. There was a really fun Alcaraz moment, which has gone very viral. Lots of you may have seen it when he went to the ESPN set, the one they have a number of sets, don't they? They really go to town with the US Open, but they have one in the main square, just sort of in the foothills of the Arthur Ashe Stadium there, sort of in front of the fountain. It's the Fountain Plaza for anybody that has been to the US Open, not far from where we did our live show. That feels a long time ago, doesn't it?

15:12He visited the set there just after coming to his press conference about 45 minutes after the match. And Andy Roddick began asking him a question about his two possible quarterfinal opponents, because at that stage, Ben Shelton hadn't played Stefano Sitsipas. And he said the names Ben Shelton and Stefano Sitsipas, and Carlos Alcaraz began to look quite confused. And he went, no, no, no, it's, isn't it? Wait, hang on a second. Can I have a look at the draw there? And he goes, oh, my God, I thought it was Tiafoe or Medvedev that I was playing. And it was this incredibly natural moment. And we know that Al Karaz is a guy that looks at the draw.

15:56We literally saw him studying the draw in forensic detail. He walked up to the screen it was projected on at Roland Garros last year and was soaking it all in. It looked like he was trying to commit the whole thing to memory. We know he's a draw guy. And yet here he was just going, oh, right, I'm in that bit, am I? Not that bit that I thought I was. It was so like, oh, he's just sort of floating around tennis at the moment, just sort of potentially raw-dogging his way to a US Open title. It's absolutely unreal. But we do know now, and presumably he knows, that it will be Ben Shelton that he faces in that quarterfinal.

16:46How good was Ben Shelton tonight, David, to beat Stefano Sitsabas in straight sets? Bloody good. Really good. And he hasn't been good to this point. The first two rounds, I was taken aback by how ordinary Shelton was. And in fact, in the first set, they lost 6-1 on the first day. I mean, he was terrible. It was the worst set I've ever seen in play. And it was nerves. He was shaken. He was joking with his team after this match against Stefanos Tsitsipas about how his team required him to be focused or they were going to leave. And it was a joke, but it was kind of loaded as well because you just get the feeling that he hasn't been able to stay as focused as he wanted to.

17:29First of all, the whole ferrari of coming in as the big guy and kind of freezing on the first set of that match. Then the second match, he's playing the sort of Alexander Zverev shift, one in the morning, and that didn't seem to sit particularly well with him.

17:47David Law: He looked like he was having to really work for that. but here he'd set he'd settled down he was he was in good shape um all the way through he wasn't threatened i mean part of that i think it i think it may be a bit of a full storm with sits the pass he's managed to get some wins this week but my word he he was a mile off in this match there were it's so easy to pick on his backhand if you've got a big lefty serve the way shelton does and he he deployed it well but shelton was hitting everything well he was middling it this was the performance that has had me thinking that he is going to win this title i was bargaining without a carlos alcaraz playing at the level he's playing at so we'll get on to that but i think that this was really encouraging from a shelter perspective is exactly what he needed so good in fact that i can tell you he's currently back out on the practice court really because it was so quick that's interesting you know and that's Alcaraz was asked about why do you sometimes go and practice something he says it's really important how you go to bed I you need to have felt when you go to bed like I played well even if you've won you need to be able to feel the ball and clearly today you didn't have to but Shelton short shift today and at the end of that answer Alcaraz goes and I think you could see that in my forehand today.

19:16But yeah, Shelton's out there, or certainly was a few minutes ago, out there on the practice courts, which I always think that's a tough scene for the guy they've beat. Yeah, I know what you mean. When they then go and do that. Yeah, me too. They did say in the commentary that Sits Pass maybe wasn't feeling all that well, but

19:38Catherine Whitaker: he did look a mile off it. And the matchup clearly is a good one for Shelton. Jimmy Arias said that in five sets they've played, Zitzpass hasn't generated a great point against Ben Shelton. That's been the gap between them. And there was definitely a business-like look to Shelton tonight. You know, it was very much a case of when he got in the lead, he seemed very determined not to lose the lead in a way that it has happened to him. and it was, you know, he was quite subdued really in his body language, but his face was all business and it was only really a joke in the Encore interview afterwards where Sam Querrey asked him about, do you like, you know, when you rack up the serve, how often do you have a quick look at the speed gun to see where you got to?

20:31Catherine Whitaker: He was like, oh yeah, I do that every single time. It was the first moment where his face like broke all evening. He'd been so locked in and that's the Shelton that I think I was expecting, like David, from the start. And it's exciting that we've at least seen it before he now plays Carlos Alcarez. And if Shelton had been really unconvincing tonight again, but scraped through, I don't think I would be all that hyped for Alcarez-Shelton. But Shelton really brought it tonight. And that's a good sign, I think, going into that match. And Shelton, even if he hadn't seen that Alcaraz performance or much of it or whatever, he would have known.

21:12He'd have heard from somewhere or someone how good that Alcaraz performance was. And he's a bravado guy, Shelton, isn't he? He'd have been motivated to go out there and make the statement that I'm playing well too. Absolutely. And I think he had been watching it. I mean, he said that it's pretty extraordinary what Carlos is doing to have this long out and be playing this well this soon. But, yeah, he's, as you would expect, he's backing himself. He says there are going to be fireworks when they play and he's going to be ready to go. And that's exactly what I want to hear from somebody who's about to take on the best player in the draw.

21:59So David, pre-tournament, you did think this quarterfinal would happen. You backed Carlos Alcaraz to get to this stage and Ben Shelton to do the same. And you picked Ben Shelton to win this match and go on to win the title. How are you feeling about that now? I didn't expect Alcaraz to be looking like this. I'll be honest with you. and before we started recording tonight I brought up a match on YouTube that I've always used as a as a little benchmark for I don't know it's just one that's always stuck in my head of the Andy Roddick against Roger Federer rivalry and this one was 2007 Jimmy Connors was with Roddick and they played in the quarterfinals same stage as Al Krause and Shelton are playing and it was very

22:50David Law: clear that conners and roddick had decided okay you are gonna go full blast all the time and try to knock this guy out of his zone and the first point of the of the match um fedra comes in and roddick goes through him with a forehand and actually succeeds and wins the point doesn't win the game goes into a tie break he's right there roddick's hitting 140 mile an hour serves time after time every time there's a forehand that's remotely in the hitting zone he's trying to knock the cover off it to get federer out of his out of his zone and he's holding pretty comfortably roddick gets into the tie break they're at the the important stages is of it the three all the four all roddick comes in behind an inside out forehand at perfect length and federer just squishes a backhand passing shot beyond him and that's the set second set exactly the same story they go to a tie break Roddick's having success he hits a 140 mile an hour serve that Federer just blocks back with a little flick of the wrist single-handed it looks like he's just done it with his the back the back of his hand without any effort and it comes back faster than it came down and it lands on Roddick's baseline at his feet and kind of yorks him to use a cricket term it goes under his racket it's incredible that won him the set two sets to love and then Federer wins at 6-2.

24:17David Law: That is the most likely scenario that I envisage seeing in this match if these two players stay to the form that I saw today. I think Shelton will bring it. I think he'll play really, really well. I think he will stay with Alcraz. I think the crowd will be up. I think it could be a little bit like the Tiafoe-Alcraz match that we saw here a few years ago before Alcraz had won I mean that was more sets but Alcraz is a much better player now I could see it being something like that two tie breaks and a 6-2 that's one scenario the other one is that Alcraz actually isn't where we think he is yet because he still hasn't been stress tested he hasn't had 140 mile an hour serves coming down at him he hasn't felt pressure he hasn't felt the crowd in quite that way.

25:08David Law: Today was almost like a practice match the way he was carrying on. He was so unthreatened so there is still a scenario where I think that he could be pushed and find that it's not quite there or that the wrist hurts or something like that and Shelton gets the better of him. If he plays his best he will beat Shelton. How do you see it Matt? Yeah generally I think Alcrest will win

25:36Catherine Whitaker: I think to go back to the Federer-Roddick comparison and again to bring up the Alcaraz serve one of the things Federer always had was not as much power on the serve as Andy Roddick but pretty much just as an effective serve because he could hit his spots and back it up so well so he could live with Roddick in that game and not feel that much pressure on return I think it's possible that if Alcarez can't get his serve going at all, he does feel that pressure on return, and he's got a guy bringing it down the other end. I think what Dave was talking about in terms of Alcarez just not having felt that in a while, I think there is a scenario where that rocks him.

26:21Catherine Whitaker: But even in that scenario, I think over best of five, I just think Alcarez would kind of have the time to settle and find his game, I suppose. They've not played all that often, Shelton and Elkraz. Three times. One of them was Lever Cup. There was a good one at Ronan Garros. Yes, which was four sets. I don't think of it as, probably because we just haven't seen it as much, but Shelton's really struggled against Sinner. Sinner's been the guy who has just won so many sets in a row against him. Sinner's relentlessness, I think, is a bit too much for Shelton to handle consistently. be but I still just think Alcaraz's best tennis is better than Ben Shelton's and he's he's got way more at his disposal and I think given what we've seen tonight that level is in him and even if he's tested I would I would back him to to find it enough to to win it it'll be night session surely which which I also think I agree with you and I think that will benefit Shelton He has had, all of his matches have been night, I think.

27:29Certainly two of them. Yeah, the Herc actually was day. Right. I think, so we're in the quarterfinals. I think the other three have been night sessions. I think Al Kraz has had two night sessions. Certainly Faria. And I think the last round was night session. Already forgotten who that was against. No, were you bing? That was day session. So just the one, just the Faria match. He's not as keen, is he?

27:52David Law: He prefers day. If you offered him, he would rather have the day session. So I think that that could benefit Shelton. I agree. Yeah. So we expect that that will be night session and the All-American quarterfinal between Francis Tiafoe and Alex Mickelson will be the day session. Let's talk Tiafoe, David, getting his first, well, do we count Leverkamp? No, his first victory over Daniel Medvedev, 7-6, 6-4, 7-6. And I say first, this was first in seven attempts. He had a 0-6 record going to this, and he's beaten him in straight sets. I've seen people that were at this match online saying this was the match of Francis Tiafoe's life.

28:39You were there inside the stadium. What do you think? Yeah, I'd agree. I think he was absolutely fabulous today, Tiafoe. He's packaged his game now in a way that it's maximised. the most important thing this year is that in his words he's just bringing it every day of his life in his career in the year not just sort of turning up he's not just turning up for the bit of the year that he fancies his coaching team and he have come to an arrangement an agreement that that is just not we can't just turn it on like that so he's as dedicated as he could be. I've seen the other two big matches that he played

29:26David Law: at the Grand Slams and lost against Matteo Arnaldi at the French Open and then against Alexander Bublik at Wimbledon. And he was playing so well in them and didn't win. And so today was a real acid test because of that record. Medvedev is a nightmare for him in so many ways. Don't think Medvedev played very well, by the way, today on his part. but even so you've got the mental challenge of beating this guy you've never beaten before in a real match i think he said about uh about labor cup um but this was this was the real deal and he's got this way now of combining slow balling when he needs to and dynamite ground strikes from the back of the court off-pace shots volleying all sorts of things and and he and he really got the balance right the first set was close on the tie break second set was comfortable third set was the one that i was court side for and was one of the better experiences i've had in a court of of an atmosphere i mean there wasn't there was wasn't a seat spare and it felt even when he's two sets to love up and you're in a tie break it still felt precarious for for tiafo he was a breakdown early on he got it back they went into a tie break he's he's getting the better of the tie break it feels tf0 and then suddenly he wasn't it's five or he hits a backhand long he's five six down he's set point down and suddenly you think oh my word if he loses this set the whole thing could turn and five six he hits a huge forehand and charges the net and has to fend off three volleys at the net and the crowd just erupted it was one of the loudest noises I've I've heard in the stadium and then they started to chant and and Tiafoe just sort of held the pose after the final volley for about 20 seconds he didn't move a muscle he was just sort of lapping up the the the adulation and the noise and they started to chant let's go foe and it was ringing around the stadium they changed ends medvedev attacked him um to his to his backhand side and came into the net and the ball was behind tiafa on his backhand side and he somehow managed to flip it cross court two hands and dip it at his feet it was miraculous really that he managed to pull it off and medvedev couldn't handle the volley and then on match point medvedev swatted a forehand drive volley cross court.

32:02David Law: Somehow Tiafa got a forehand squash shot on it and floated it back and Medvedev dumped it in the net and the place just went bananas again. It was absolutely electric in that stadium. And I'm really pleased for Tiafa because I think he went out to Jan-Lenard Struff last year and it was so poor on grandstand court. This is what he's all about. Still unbeaten on Armstrong. He'd love to play this quarterfinal on Armstrong, wouldn't he? But it's not going to be possible. It will be on Ash. I think that's right, isn't it? They're all on Ash. Yes, definitely, yeah. Yeah, it's an amazing thing, Tiafoe and Armstrong.

32:41Catherine Whitaker: It's a player in a court in just perfect harmony, and he knows how to play to the people on that court. You know, stuff like holding the pose at the end there, and there was an amazing, like, pirouette half volley that he hit. That's a 360 at one point that was absolutely incredible as well. And, you know, he talked the other night about genuinely preferring the vibe on Armstrong. You know, he shouted out the lack of sweets. And that is just one thing that worries me a little bit for Tiafoe going forward. Like, I think he's playing great tennis generally. And I think that point he made about bringing it all year, he feels more secure now i think because he's seasoned he's tested all year okay like he hasn't won the big matches but it's not been because of attitude or just not doing the work you know like or not finding the events as meaningful as the u.s open he's sort of okay he's built up some scars perhaps through the year but actually i think he's he's learned from all those defeats and his game feel so secure he knows what he's doing with it right now but it is at its best on that court in those vibes and trying to bring that out on ash in the next few matches i think will be harder for him um but i would i would love for him to be able to do it because that was incredible today and i always think of the win over nadal as kind of his best win um You know, in truth, that was a pretty injured Nadal, I think, by that point in the season here in 2022.

34:32I don't know, injured Nadal in 2022 versus 2026 Medvedev. It's kind of hard to sort of weigh those things up, I suppose.

34:39Catherine Whitaker: But I also think of the loss he took to Carlos Alcaraz in five sets here at the US Open as one of the best matches he played. And that was on Ash and that was a feverish atmosphere. So we have seen it on Ash as well, but it was incredible today. And he's a very special person on that stadium. And it was after that loss to Alcaraz in 22, and obviously Alcaraz went on to win the title, that he did an interview on the court. Very unusual for the losing player to do an interview. And he said, I'll be back and I'll win this thing one day. and I do think he's very aware of his ageing at the moment. I've seen a few different interviews, seen and heard a few different interviews of Francis Tiafoe where he's lightly and jokingly sort of referenced stakes and pains and gone, well, you know, I'm not as young as I used to be.

35:34I'm getting old. I think he's aware of his tennis mortality and how small the window is and if there even is a window for him to come back and win this thing one day, it's closing, you know? And I think he's very, very aware of that. And I'm very excited to see what he'll bring in a couple of days' time. David, he's up against your guy, Alex Mickelson. Yeah, 12 sets played, 12 sets won. I'm really interested in your thoughts about Mickelson, Tiafoe. Tiafoe Mickelson, yeah. Yeah, it's one I find very hard to call. They've played twice before. Tiafa's won all four sets, but they were a while back.

36:20And never on an outdoor hard court. No, I don't feel that they are really representative. And Tiafa said the same thing. I mean, they're good mates, these two. I think Tiafa likes Mickelson. He rates him. He says he's an all-court game that he has, which is unusual, he feels, for a player of his age. I mean, he's early 20s. And he's right. He can kind of do everything, Mikkelsen.

36:47David Law: He makes the game look quite easy with his size and his movement and his shot making. He's a very natural tennis player. My guess is that Tiafoe's handling of the stage will get him over the line. I'm not convinced that Mickelson will have the greatest experience in his first kind of go at doing this really big quarter final at the US Open in quite this way I hope that's not right I don't mind who wins I really like them both but I just don't, I hope Mickelson doesn't have a bad experience I want him to play well and if Tiafoe plays better than him, great you know what i mean um but but i think i think that is a an element to this match um but then it may go the other way i i remember when fritz played against tiafa in that semi-final here a couple of years ago and tiafa was getting the better of him and then he choked he choked it away because of the enormity of the moment the the thing he really wants and suddenly he couldn't play free and is that going to happen to him here in a tight moment so lots and lots of variables to consider really looking forward to it I think I would I'd go to Iaffa to win it but not with any great sense of confidence it's a great set of quarterfinals I can't wait uh that's it for part one we'll be back in part two to talk about the women's matches from today today's show is brought

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40:21Matt Roberts: Go to homechef.com slash tennis pod. That's homechef.com slash tennis pod for 50 % off your first box and free dessert for life. homechef.com slash tennis pod. You must be an active subscriber to receive that free dessert. With the Discover Cash Back Card, It's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast.

41:09turning our attention now to the women's fourth round matches that we saw today and the quarterfinals that they have set up, starting with the defending champion and world number one for now, Irina Sabalenka and her 6-4, 6-3 beating of Taylor Townsend, a match that started with an extravagant entrance for Taylor Townsend onto the Arthur Ashe Stadium in this feather, enormous feather coat type thing very dramatic theatrical stuff looked really cool really fun really new york unfortunately the match was a bit of a damp squib after that yeah probably the biggest disappointment of the day i would say like we we've been looking forward to this one since the draw came out really that the possibility of it and especially when we knew it was set up and Townsend had been playing really well and there are these doubts swirling around Sabalenka given her form coming in here it felt like this should be one of the matches of the tournament so far and honestly the first few moments of it were intriguing there was five breaks to open the match and it was it was very close uh but it wasn't particularly high quality i suppose um and townsend with a very unusual missed overhead in that period and she's normally

42:47Catherine Whitaker: so good under that shot but missed it cost her one of those breaks and then i felt like that lingered in her mind a little bit and she wasn't able to put it past her and then sabalenka kind of took over for the rest of that first set until she came to serve it out and then Townsend got one of the breaks back again it was just a really scratchy set no one really had proper rhythm um and then that kind of continued in the in the second set as well Townsend actually went up a break but immediately gave it back in the very next game it was like she couldn't get any momentum going and I felt like Townsend caught Sabalenka on a day where Sabalenka wasn't serving all that well which is absolutely what you want but then Townsend didn't have the consistency in her own game to take advantage of that and you know you think of the match just before the US Open that Sabalenka lost to Sarah Baleck a lefty like Townsend but what did Baleck do constantly asked the question of Sabalenka was just there all the time putting pressure on almost provoking Sabalenka into potentially letting it slip Townsend just wasn't able to apply that consistent pressure and it ended up a little bit of a of an amp squib really which was which was a shame because I thought this one was set up to be really exciting and it just didn't think quite deliver on that and I also I also don't therefore feel like I come out of it feeling really convinced by Sabalenka which I was expecting to if she passed this test I kind of thought what we said the other night she could go out here or it could be the absolute making of her because she's probably going to have to bring it I was expecting that and I don't feel like I've necessarily got that just because the match just left me wanting a bit more yeah I had exactly the same feeling I left this match I expected after this match to have a sense of where Irina Sabalenka was at and whether something had changed from how I felt about her at the start of the tournament whether I'd been misreading exactly what a what a subpar mental state she's been in I just don't have that I went to her press conference to try and get a sense of it and she wasn't as sassy as she's been in some of her other press conferences but she definitely she definitely seemed a bit over it you know she seems sort of tired and like let's you know let's let's get this over with she was perfectly perfectly polite it was fine um I asked her about the world number one situation sort of expecting not really to get anything from her but I was trying to get a get a sense of her vibes really I asked her sort of how aware she is of the world number one situation um and and whether sort of it being out of her control is a weird sensation.

45:49And she just sort of was like, it's not in my control, so I don't think about it. And I don't think I believe that. But I also totally understand why she doesn't necessarily possibly want to tell us the whole truth. But, yeah, I just, I'm left wanting more data points about Arena Sabalenka at this tournament. and I suspect we'll get them in the next round because she's going to be facing the Wimbledon champion, Linda Nozkova, who came through. Look, if Alcaraz was the performance of the day, although I suppose Tiafoe probably needs to be in that conversation, but I think Carlos Alcaraz's tennis today has to get the performance of the day award.

46:34I agree. The match of the day, though, no dispute here. Linda Nozkova beating Marta Kostchuk 7-5, 5-7, 6-4, winning it on her sixth match point. She had those match points across two sets. She had two at the end of the second set. She did her now trademark move of leaving the court after choking away match points. Fingers in the ears. Don't know if she found the US Open trophy in the bowels of Louis Armstrong Stadium like she famously did at Wimbledon, saw the trophy on the way back to the court after her loo break and said, I'm coming for you, Venus Rosewater dish. But yeah, she comes back onto court and it's a tremendous, competitive, vibrant third set and Noskova eventually gets over the line on her fourth match point.

47:31I loved this match so much, Matt. Me too, me too. I was enjoying it anyway, like even if it had ended in straight sets, I think it would have been quite a good match. But the drama that ensued was fantastic. And, you know, we saw them play the semifinal of Wimbledon.

47:56Catherine Whitaker: And that was a time when Noskova was just impenetrable on serve. And this match wasn't like that. You know, Noskova went up a break a couple of times in the first set. Kostiuk got it back. It was it was nip and tuck. But Noskova won that set, takes that lead, has the match points. And when and Kostiuk, by the way, with a couple of phenomenal saves on those match points in the second set, the first one in particular, amazing cross court forehand. And Kostiuk had been getting a little bit down on herself, like she'd been a little bit negative on the call. I didn't know, I didn't think she had that sort of comeback in her, particularly today, just because those weren't the vibes she was giving off on the court.

48:39But as soon as she saved that first match point with the forehand, it was like she suddenly believed that maybe she could get back into it.

48:46Catherine Whitaker: And it was crazy how reminiscent of the Wimbledon final, second set that was for Noskova. As you said, the fingers in the ears, but also the total bailout on some shots. It was like she wanted that set over. It was like she was actually desperate to get off the court. The final shot she hit was just a slap forehand out. She wanted it done. And isn't it amazing how the sport can just put you back in these positions so soon? The last three deciding sets, I think, that Nosikov has played have been the same. They've been taking the lead, having it to win in the second set, blowing it and having to regroup in the third the Wimbledon final the Anne Lee match we saw the other day and now and now this one and yet she keeps doing it it's like the ultimate skill to be able to choke and win anyway because the choke is likely going to come you know it's very very few players don't choke at some point but how you recover from it tells you everything and Noskova regroups so well and makes the match look like the first set again it's what she did in the Wimbledon final and it's what she did here and she took the lead again in the third set she holds the court so beautifully with her ground stroke she's able to step in and take it on the rise with either her forehand or her backhand and she's got such quiet power like you don't really realize it and suddenly she's hit a winner and yeah got got herself in a position to to win it comfortably but then the match points kept coming and going and she just couldn't win that final one and the match was on a total knife edge until she eventually got over the line and i think it's encouraging generally for kostiuk to have played her closer than than she did at wimbledon and to of found a way back into the match even if she can't ultimately take it and i suppose on the other hand she does just keep coming up just a little bit short in these big matches kosti now like there's a there's a step going around isn't there that she keeps losing to the person who goes on to win the tournament so she's losing to only good players but that's the step she needs to take right just she's her consistency's been remarkable she's had good wins but just getting that win against the player who's capable of going on to win the tournament is kind of the one thing that's missing but it does feel like she's making a lot of progress and getting closer and as for Noskova to have backed up Wimbledon like this is amazing didn't see this coming no and now and now we're in a situation where we get sabalenka against the wimbledon champion like that is such an exciting match to look forward to and okay we thought we thought townsend would be the test of sabalenka i feel very sure that noskova is now the test of where sabalenka is i think it's very possible that noskova just takes her out yeah yeah absolutely it's a it's a totally different level to anything Sabalenka It's also possible that Sabalenka finds it and brings it and then we get convinced by her.

52:07It's also possible that you get a bit of a Noskova no-show because we have seen that as well in this summer. If you think about it there have been a couple of matches where she's just almost like not been with us I don't think that'll happen but this is a big stage to come on to now as the woman and champion playing the world number one and she may freeze. You know, that's also a possibility. Fascinating. I would be surprised. I would be surprised if that happened. It was just such a... Just to finish off the chat about Nozkovic Kostiuk, these are... I think Vicky put it beautifully on our group chat, didn't she, that these have been to the stories of the year in women's tennis, these two players who have totally reframed themselves in terms of their place and relevance in the tour.

53:07I looked it up, Kostiuk was seeded 27th here last year and Noskova was seeded 21st. And this year they're 11th and 6th. So they've kind of made sort of similar equivalent style. Obviously Noskova has made the big leap of becoming a Grand Slam champion, but they've made leaps of similar magnitude, I would say. And they've just been such welcome revelations

53:37Catherine Whitaker: on the tour this year. Yes. And I think, again, I think it was Vicky as well who said that they match up well against each other because they both have an intensity to them, but Noskova's is inner. You know, it's quiet. But my goodness, she's locked in on the match. whereas Kostiuk's is much more outward and there's a sort of ferocity to her play and that contrast is really intriguing to watch. That's very well put because you can feel Noskova's intensity even though she's not demonstrative. She's not Bortick. Who is? Do you know what I mean though? Like it's not... Yeah, I haven't got a better way to put that.

54:23It's not like Bortig is the ultimate example, I think. I'm not saying he doesn't care, but it's not intense, is it? No, but there's a similar facade in a way from Noshkova. She doesn't let you in, but you know it's there. You do know it's bubbling under there. And I mean, look, it helps that she's been so transparent with the way she's choked in these moments and come back. that shows a ferocious competitor, I think. Because it'd be so easy to walk away in those situations and give yourself a bit of an out and say...

55:04David Law: And I wouldn't have a go at anybody who did that, but I think to dig as deep as she has and face up to the joke and come back several times now, it's one of the revelations of the year. It's quite a trademark move to have, isn't it? To go off the court with the fingers in the ears after choking. Yeah, she's so cool. I think she's brilliant. So Nojkova against Sabalenka at the very top of the draw. The second quarterfinal set up is Jessica Bagula against... Now, if you're hearing me say this, the answer is Emma Navarro because she's currently set in 5-2 on Anna Kalinskaya. If you're not hearing this, there's really no point in me finishing this sentence, but we will have gone on to re-record this segment.

55:51of the podcast because Anna Kalinskaya will have pulled off an extraordinary comeback from a set in five, two down, but it's looking an awful lot like it's going to be Jessica Bagula who beats Sarana Castella today, six, three, six, four against Emma Navarro, an all American quarterfinal, David. Yeah. Fascinating because I think we would have all put Jessica Bagula and we did in this position, expecting her to be in the quarterfinals and to go further than that. I don't remember too many people talking about Navarro. but she's quietly had some results this year um you know she's she also had a period away from the the tour because of health issues and i mean first and foremost i remember when she had her run here

56:35David Law: a couple of years ago and it was brilliant to watch her play and and and i think it's it's awesome that she's playing like this again and she is a threat i think she can beat people again she's a there's something a little bit noshkova like about the way she just quietly just devastates you um and the pressure will be on pagula um certainly certainly from a an expectation standpoint from the external people like ourselves we would we would think pagula will win that it's a tough head to head for navarro though that one isn't it with pagula yeah Pagoula has has dominated it um yeah look Pagoula today against Castella the one thing that slightly worried me is her serving you know we talked a lot about how she needs to have that shot finely tuned and where it was at

57:31Catherine Whitaker: the start of the year she was down at 46 for serves in and I think at this stage of the tournament She needs to up that, you know, because it just causes a bit of chaos in the matches. And she's better than that. She can back up a decent first serve much better than that. And it was a match where Pagula won the first 13 points against Castello. And you think, well, she's absolutely flying. And then next thing you know, it's almost back to three all. She just is a bit vulnerable still in her service games. was 10 breaks in this match tonight. And she had a 4-1 lead in the second set. And that got reduced.

58:13She went to serve it out and she got broken. She just keeps suffering these little setbacks in matches. And I think a lot of that is to do with the serve. And I just feel like someone like Emma Navarro will really test that. She hangs tough. You can think you've shaken her off. and there she is still going, still running, still chasing it down. She's got decent hands as well, Emma Navarro. She's got a slice backhand, which, you know, mix up the shape of the rallies and maybe take Pagula out of some of her rhythm that she likes. But I am still backing Pagula. This is not me talking myself out of Pagula.

58:57But I think it's going to be a real test for her. I'm super pleased for Emma Navarro. She's had a tough old year. And, yeah, I'm not sure anybody was expecting this of her. And I'm really chuffed to see her in this position. I think the head-to-head is pretty compelling there. But I think she's got a shot, Navarro, there. I really do. I think so. I think maybe the lack of expectation helps her. And I have such admiration for Pekula, how she just keeps on delivering. She doesn't tend to underperform. But I do think that when you're looking in these stages for an extra bit, aren't you? You want to elevate.

59:52I think it might be a bit easier to elevate from Navarro's position because she can maybe be more free. It's going to be fascinating. Five quarter finalists for the US from today. Happy Labour Day, everybody. That's tomorrow, isn't it? And in part three, we will talk about the Labour Day order of play. It might surprise you.

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1:01:17Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. we're going to look ahead now to tomorrow's order of play. It's great to be able to say tomorrow when it is actually tomorrow because it is still today. I'm impressed you remembered how to do that. Tomorrow's order of play, officially Labor Day. And that means that the day session is the hot ticket, certainly in terms of ESPN and broadcasters. And that makes tomorrow's day session, Arthur Ashe Stadium, order of play, particularly interesting. It opens at 11.30 a.m. with Igor Shiontek against Jung Chinwen. That is my match of the day. I cannot wait.

1:02:00I was hoping not to see it in the early slot. I really hope people are there and seated and bring some atmos for that match because I cannot wait. Following it onto the Arthurash Stadium. I mean, great players, totally earned their place here. But this is not what the tournament or ESPN had in mind for their prime time Labor Day slot. It is Francisco Serangelo against Alexander Blocks. Yeah, I mean, they're good players. And the fact that they're in the last 16 tells you that they're playing really well and avert their place. But, you know, that is the lowest key Arthrash Stadium court match I think I've come across in all my years.

1:02:55And they may make their name this this fortnight. But for that to be chosen on Labor Day, when you when you I mean, look, the TV may well be showing the Louis Armstrong match instead of that. I just can't see ESPN wanting to show best of five set version of that match. And the reason we think that they have had to do this is, I mean, it's a good reason. It's fairness. But the reason fairness looks like this is because of the flipping schedule. Yes, exactly. I think all things being equal, the two men's matches that they would have wanted on the Arthur Ashe Stadium tomorrow would have been the top seed, Alexander Zverev against Darderi, and that is on the Arthrash Stadium.

1:03:48That's the second night match. And then the other one they would have wanted would have been the American, Lerna Tien against Karin Hakchanov. But Zverev, as we've talked about, has been stuck in this loop of playing in the middle of the night, and he was out there the other night playing late again. It would have been pretty unfair I think, to put him in the day session. And then Lerner Tien got stuck last night playing against Jakub Mensik really late. In fact, that was the later finish. So it would have been unfair to make Lerner Tien come back and play in the night. So they needed to get both of those matches on late.

1:04:31And Lerner Tien, Karen Hashinov is the final match on Armstrong. It's not an official night session

1:04:37Catherine Whitaker: over Labor Day weekend, but it'll be on in the early evening. So that's enough rest time. But yeah, it's sort of come back to them, I suppose, with the fact that the two matches they wanted to have on the Arthur Ashe Stadium, they can't for fairness reasons because they were both playing ridiculously late. Yeah, Arthur Ashe night session tomorrow. Evie Jovic against Coco Goff, another all-American clash. and second on Alexander Zverev remaining trapped in his loop, taking on Luciano Darderi, the 21st seed from Italy, who I don't think we've talked about yet. No, and he's a good player and he's beaten Zverev before, albeit under very different conditions on the clay in Rome.

1:05:26I just think we're now at a point where this schedule is really benefiting Zverev in terms of his progress because he's playing people who haven't played in the middle of the night, and he's played all of his matches at that time. So he's now getting used to it. There will be a flip side to that because eventually if he carries on, he's going to have to play earlier. And then we'll see if that affects him negatively. But Darderi is a very good player. And he's got some swagger about him, hasn't he? Like you say about Vachero, although...

1:06:03although Vashro didn't necessarily live up to this against Francis Tiafoe the other night, he doesn't place limits on himself. I feel like Darderi's one of those guys.

1:06:12David Law: Yeah, shot maker, likes to thrill, likes to sort of be the guy. Whether he can get into it is the big question mark because Varev is improving, certainly. I mean, the first and third sets he played against Tabila last night were very good. The second set really wasn't, and he was lucky. he said the same but he might be able to sort of shut the door on Darderi before Darderi really gets a chance to get his foothold if he can though the crowd might like him Speaking of players that have flown under the radar up until now over on Armstrong kicking off at 11am Mira Andrava against Anastasia Potapova I feel like we've barely talked about Andrava the reigning French Open champion Yes, and I think I heard Laura Robson say today that she's dropped the fewest games of anyone to get through to that point.

1:07:07I think the Barton-Cover match was the one that stood out in terms of being impressive. That was a test, and she came through it. Yeah, you're right. Like, a Grand Sam champion this year, I suppose partly it's because of my expectations of her coming in here, given the form she'd been in and some of the performances she'd put in. I hadn't... Like, I guess I was putting her in my mix just out of respect for the level that I know she's capable of and we've seen it come together this year, but I sort of wasn't really expecting her to win this tournament. I certainly had a few people above her, but she's been very good and she's avoided playing Amanda Nissimova, so great news for her.

1:07:53A bit like Nozicka, really. Yes. hasn't had the best hard court summer before this US Open, felt like maybe it was the, you know, it's tough winning your first slam and having to just bounce back onto the relentless tennis tour and go again. I was kind of giving them both a free pass for the rest of the summer, but neither of them want it. And that's absolutely fine. So Andreeva Potapova, the first match on Armstrong. Then it is some women's doubles round three, action with the top seeds. Katarina Siniakova and Taylor Townsend taking on Storm Hunter and Desiree Kravchick, the 13th seeds. Then it is Naomi Osaka and Elena Rabakina, which is a match I rather suspect they hope will clash with Blox and Sarundalo so that they can show this instead.

1:08:49Yes, and we're not meaning to throw shade at Sarundalo and Blox, who've done really well to get to this point. And it's just that those matches are more enticing, aren't they?

1:09:02David Law: On paper, certainly. I'm really looking forward to watching Osaka against Rebekah. And obviously there's this wonderful narrative about world number one and Rebekah being two matches away from being the world number one if she gets to the semifinals. So there's loads at stake. And, yeah. Who's the favourite? Well, I think on paper Rebekah is the favourite, but I'm actually going to go Osaka. I saw their match a few weeks ago and Osaka should have won it. And with the remaining question mark about Rebecca's injury, inverted commas, I say that not because she didn't have one but because it looks like she's recovered from it but it's still not a zero factor for me.

1:09:51David Law: I'm going to go Osaka but she hasn't been able to shut the door on her matches in the way she would have wanted to. What do you two think?

1:10:03I'm confused about Rebecca, really confused. I know we changed our policy to assume she's fine until proven otherwise. I just can't get it out of my head the way I saw her not that long ago. but Osaka hasn't quite been in the form I thought she might be as you said like not shutting the door on matches letting people back in the serve hasn't always been firing like it did for example when she managed to get a win of this caliber at Wimbledon over Sabalenka

1:10:43I think if we assume Rabatkin is fine I think I will lean Rabatkin in that one but who knows I think I feel the same but that's it's a big if isn't it and all of my Rabatkin takes up to this point on this podcast have been inaccurate so make of that what you will last match of the day on Armstrong tomorrow as Matt says not an official night session It's all, well, it's not quite followed by, it's not before 4pm, but it's Karen Hashinov against Lerner TN. We are big TN fans in this Tennis Podcast Towers household, aren't we? Oh, yeah. What a watch she is. Yeah. And we were watching last night. We didn't pod after it for once, but we were watching and loving it.

1:11:42We got emails. This match was a scene against Jakub Mensik. Mensik had his own personal heckler who had to be kicked out. That's incredible. That's the level we're talking about. Boos were ringing around because of it. Get him out. Get him out. Amazing. Second only to finish her in the Mensik-Putin-Saver match. That is the heckle that will never be beaten. Yeah. But Menzig, as we've become used to, was going through these ups and downs of energy, I suppose. And, you know, seemed to revive himself after the end of the fourth set where he was really cramping.

1:12:27Catherine Whitaker: And he came out absolutely leathering the ball in the fifth. And it was up to Tien to live with that. But I love learning Tien's tennis. I just love watching him manoeuvre and massage the ball around the court. And he changes direction with the ball so easily. It's a joy. And I do think he could do that to Hashinov. I think he can... Make him look clunky. Make him look a bit clunky. I think there's also potentially a world where Hashinov just drags him through it. stands up to him and that's going to be a real test for TN. This is a big match for him, you know, like probably the biggest of his career, trying to get to a quarterfinal.

1:13:16And then in the quarterfinal, he would know he would have a shot again into a semi because it's Surundalo or Blox. Like it's not easy, but he would back himself. So it's a big match and Hachnoff has played more of those. So that's possible. But I just rate TN's tennis so highly and his IQ so highly. And maybe Mensik's not the worst person to have played before playing Hashanov. There's a slight similarity of style. I think he's a slow heartbeat guy as well, Tien. I think he keeps his composure. Yeah. In big moments and on stages that he's never been on before. This is already uncharted territory for Leonard Tien.

1:14:01But I cannot wait to watch him again. and we will be back at the end of all of that to do another podcast. Hello to Leo, who really is doing a photo shoot today. I know, it's good, isn't it? Leo is out here working harder than any of us. Vicky says, should the US Open ever consider appointing Bulldogs, Leo would like it to be known that he's ready, willing and able. Look, I've had a Bulldogs campaign on the go for many years and no one's listening to me. So who knows? He is wearing his Boston Celtics jersey, which proves he has suitable sports experience. Do we like the Celtics? Yeah. Yeah, I like the Celtics.

1:14:45They're green jerseys, aren't they? The green suits him. He looks very handsome. I'll be popping that on our Instagram. Hello to our mascots. Hello, Bodie. Hello, Maisie. Hello, Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. That is a second hello of the day for two of those executive producers. Greg and Chris, we saw today and said hello in person and it was very lovely to see both of them. It was. We were on our way to see Greg for a prearranged meetup and we bumped into Chris. Jeff, where are you? Yeah, Jeff, get your ass down to the Billie Jean King National Tennis Centre.

1:15:28If you are coming, Jeff, it would be lovely to see you. You are one of our top folks and we salute you. And just before we go, if you're an NFL fan, we've been telling you about something really exciting that The Athletic has to offer starting from next week. The Athletic Live presented by Google Gemini is a brand new YouTube watch along on NFL game days featuring the biggest and the best beat reporters The Athletic has to offer. You can even become part of the show. in the interactive chat on YouTube. And it all starts from September the 8th. So do check that out if you like. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network.

1:16:10We are daily throughout the rest of this US Open. So thank you for listening and we'll speak to you tomorrow.

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