US Open Mixed Doubles - will the champions be invited back?

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1:15Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast, or should I say the reimagined tennis podcast for one night only, because we are here to talk about the reimagined US Open Mixed Doubles Championship, an official Grand Slam tournament, lest anyone need reminding. It is 1.15am and we're back at Tennis Podcast Towers, New York, because apparently tennis has designed a new format, a snappy new format that still finishes after midnight. Well done, tennis. All of which is to say that edition number one of the reimagined US Open mixed doubles tournament is in the books. And Sara Irani and Andrea Vavasori have executed their plan to poop all over the USTA's glitzy star-studded party to chilling perfection.

2:14perfection they defended the mixed doubles title they won 50 weeks ago in rather different fashion so it turns out david that you can put them on the bloody roll of honor yes again yes yes you can

2:31David Law: although you know it's it's not the same is it uh listen i'm not going to get into all that again but i mean that's literally what we're here for to get into all of that but i do i do love it i I mean, look, the thing is, I really enjoyed this whole thing. I really did. And I've got lots and lots of good things to say about it. But my God, did I enjoy the fact that they won it. You know, that is what I hoped for at the outset. That is what they, as you rightly put it, executed so perfectly. I mean, not quite perfectly, because they should have won it in straight sets and didn't. But they still won it.

3:08Matt Roberts: Oh, but don't you think it's more perfect?

3:09David Law: Oh, well, I mean, it couldn't have been more perfect because of what Sara Arney did. More of that later. But, you know, it was wonderful. It was a wonderful occasion tonight. We've been inside Arthur Ashe Stadium for the whole thing. And it was electric at the end when they were trying to get over the line there. And ultimately, real doubles players prevailed in the mixed doubles. And that's really cool.

3:39Matt Roberts: they beat Kasparud Niga Shvontek in case anybody didn't see it or didn't see the result 10-6 in the match tie break and it was thrilling Matt it was a thrilling conclusion to a wild night to open our 2025 US Open

4:00Catherine Whitaker: yes they started the night by introducing Kasparud and saying that he's desperately seeking his first Grand Slam trophy.

4:09David Law: At his fourth attempt.

4:11Catherine Whitaker: At his fourth attempt. And I thought, oh, okay, it's going to be that kind of night then.

4:15David Law: They're putting that alongside him against Carlos Alcaraz over four hours.

4:21Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, we know it's not a Grand Slam final because Igor Sviontech lost. Does not lose Grand Slam finals. But look, as much as we enjoy joking about all this, the hard truth is we all had a great time we really did we've enjoyed the last two days a lot and i was very i was definitely intrigued by the event i was skeptical about it but intrigued i didn't think i would be swept up in it i didn't think i would enjoy it as much as i have done i'll be honest i even enjoyed fast four i wanted fast four in the final i was so annoyed that the

5:02Matt Roberts: final wasn't fast four so annoyed like it should have been fast four it like far i can't explain it

5:11David Law: but fast four really worked i i so much at that moment when you said that wanted to introduce you to yourself of three days ago i know well it's important to be able to admit your mistakes david

5:24Matt Roberts: admit when you've been wrong yeah we live in a climate where you know that's gone out of fashion I was really wrong just like I was wrong about the one point slam

5:35Catherine Whitaker: there are real parallels and to be clear I don't think we're wrong about fast for the rest of the time

5:43Matt Roberts: no no no this is not a total positional shift I mean not yet it's not a capitulation no well I mean it is a slight capitulation because I really would have died on the hill of leave the format alone

5:58David Law: you said that it's the format that is making this a joke ahead of time?

6:03Matt Roberts: I think the format was right at the top of the things that took away from the integrity of the event. I would now, to switch my agendas, to drive a different agenda train, I would now say that 50 % of the field being there by virtue of wild cards is the number one.

6:30Catherine Whitaker: Back to your other agenda. Exactly, yeah.

6:33Matt Roberts: Is the number one sort of integrity sapping element of this tournament.

6:39David Law: Mine is the banishing of doubles players entirely. Unless, you know, they put Irani and Vavasori in because they felt they should. And actually that made the whole thing to me.

6:53Matt Roberts: But David, I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you, But the fact that you're describing a system whereby sort of individuals are subjectively selecting who gets led in and who doesn't, isn't that the issue? Rather than, is there fundamentally an issue with having a tournament, a doubles tournament, alongside other doubles tournaments, there are still opportunities for doubles players to compete in the men's and the women's, and mixed doubles does only happen at Grand Slams and Olympics. There is sort of a novelty element to it. It's not tour doubles like the tour doubles players are used to playing.

7:40Matt Roberts: Is there anything wrong necessarily with having a mixed doubles tournament at a Grand Slam for which qualification is determined by singles ranking, combined singles ranking. No wild cards, no nonsense, but singles ranking.

7:59David Law: Well, I think that if that is the way you're going to do it, I think that's a real shame because you are banishing the art of the doubles player, players who are clearly, and have proved again tonight, that they're better than all of these other singles stars at doubles. and to not have them in because if you want a system like that, I don't want that. I think that what made this really good was watching these doubles specialists against single stars. That was the best part of the whole thing.

8:34Matt Roberts: I agree with you. And the stakes, I really believe the stakes wouldn't have been the same or felt the same had it had been Kasper-Rudin, Igor Schwantek against, well, I know this was the semi-final, but against Pegula and Draper in the final. It would not have had the same edge. You know, Ruud and Shontek were in it, and they were intense, and, you know, they were competitive, but it's just not the same. It's not the same.

9:04Matt Roberts: But, yeah, I do agree with you on that. But equally, part of what made tonight so much fun, and as you said, electrifying, was the crowd that were there. It was sold out tonight. The crowd bought the tickets because the names were there.

9:22David Law: Sure, but you can have both. You can have both. You can have how many teams were there? 16 in total? 12 made of singles players, 4 of doubles players. Take the Grand Slam mixed doubles champions from all the other Grand Slams, stick them in this and you're defending champions there's your field and that's that's really interesting and the singles players I think Svantec and Ruud were well aware of the the magnitude of their challenge playing these incredible doubles players and they were given everything to try to beat to win to beat them to show how good they are I loved the intensity of of all of tonight, but the most intensity and the most excitement was watching specialists against far superior tennis players as individuals.

10:12David Law: And that is an intoxicating mix that should be traded on in this format. There's an opportunity here that the US Open has unearthed, and I think that they've done an incredible job of staging this event, and they could just cap it all off if they would just allow the doubles players to have four spots for Grand Slam champions.

10:38Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I agree. I really agree with that. I think the event would be way less interesting and way more exhibition-feely if it was 16 singles players. 16 pairings of just singles players

10:58David Law: quite a lot of it was I still enjoyed it but if you called it the Eisenhower Cup or whatever it was how different would it have been

11:07Catherine Whitaker: we see that at other slams we see these mixed doubles events and they are just exhibitions there's no stakes there's no there's no edge to any of the matches whereas we did have that because of Irani and Bavisori and if we keep just a little sprinkling of them in, as Dave is describing. I think it could grow. I think the singles players would want the challenge of trying to beat the doubles players. And I think the doubles players would want the challenge of trying to defend their territory. I think it could be fantastic.

11:42Matt Roberts: Yeah. No, I agree. I would sign up for that. It's just designing a system where the qualification criteria aren't subjective, where there's some sort of mechanism to give qualification integrity. And I like it. I like the idea of the Grand Slam champions at the other majors qualifying to compete here. Although that would only be three teams.

12:13Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I guess you used last year's... Yeah, and look, if Iranian Bavassori sweep all of the mixed doubles titles and you haven't got four, lots of different champions, maybe you find another way to get, whether it be finalists or whatever. I don't know. I have to say, though, I'm almost 100 % sure that's not going to happen, this idea that we're proposing. I think they double down. They're going to go the other way. I think they double down on the idea that they've had and they probably allow Rani and Bavisori to play again next year.

12:48Matt Roberts: Oof, I don't know about that.

12:49Catherine Whitaker: I think it's possible.

12:51David Law: We're in Paul Harhouse winning the Royal Albert Hall territory.

12:54Matt Roberts: We've been here, Matt.

12:55David Law: We have been here. And what did you do? He won it three years in a row. And then eventually they just stopped having the competition. Right. Okay, so maybe...

13:03Matt Roberts: No, no, they expelled Paul Harhouse. They changed the rules.

13:07David Law: They changed the criteria so he couldn't play.

13:10Matt Roberts: And they made it more subjective. He was... So the back story here is David and I used to work on the Champions Tour. For a while there, it was sort of trying to be a credible, you know, like golf has, a credible Champions Tour. And the year-ending, the equivalent of the ATP Finals was this year-end event held at the Royal Albert Hall in London. And you qualified. There were rankings. There were ATP Champions Tour rankings. And Paul Harhouse used to win this event. They had an event somewhere in the Netherlands. Yes, that's right. Every year. And he used to show up and win it every year. There you go, Eindhoven.

13:47Matt Roberts: And by winning this tournament, he would qualify for the Albert Hall. And this tournament was shown on BBC TV. They had quite a big deal broadcasting contract. It was a big deal. And it had that BBC contract because John McEnroe and Bjorn Borg and Yannick Noah played. And Paul Highhouse showed up.

14:07David Law: He beat Jim Currier in the final the first year on the big launch of it. And then the next year he beat Goran Ivanovic. And then he beat him again the next year.

14:17Matt Roberts: Took out John McEnroe, I think, in the group stages. And then they changed the rules to get rid of him. And I think in that third year, he was asked to throw it and refuse. That's what I heard anyway. He was told, we're going to lose our BBC deal if you don't piss off. And they did, yeah.

14:42Catherine Whitaker: Well, I wasn't expecting so much Paul Harhouse chat at 1.30am, before the US Open's even properly started. But here we are.

14:50David Law: You've been good at this. He's a good doubles player.

14:53Catherine Whitaker: I suppose, you know, my feeling is that, you know, they're very keen to call themselves an official Grand Slam tournament, right? If they go the other way and they just make it all singles players, to me, they're going away from that. If they go in terms of involving some other mixed doubles champions and doubles specialist teams, I think you could actually make the case that that would be the strongest mixed doubles field out of all the Grand Slams. If you've got enough good mixed doubles teams plus your single stars who are your best players, that would actually be like the most impressive Grand Slam to win, I think.

15:35Catherine Whitaker: Because exactly as you said, a lot of the other mixed doubles draws are a bit of a random mishmash of players. You know, mixed doubles draws are not that strong. They're not that impressive. I totally get...

15:47David Law: Most of them don't have a million dollars on the line.

15:49Catherine Whitaker: Right, I totally get why the US Open wanted to revamp it. I totally get it. But I just think if they go all in on the singles players who don't really give a shit, who don't need the money, I think they would devalue actually a pretty incredible event that they might have hit on here. Yeah, there is lots good about trying to do this.

16:17Matt Roberts: Recognising how much fertile, unploughed territory there is in the format of this sport where men and women play together is important. and how it has been so unplowed, underplowed for so long is a mystery to me, really. But, you know, trying to do something about that and maximise it and put it to the forefront is a really good thing. And that crowd, I mean, it was packed.

16:53David Law: By the time they got halfway into the evening, they got to about 8.30, 9 o 'clock, there was barely a seat that you could see in 24 ,000.

17:03Matt Roberts: It was less full for the ceremony.

17:05David Law: I mean, the ceremony was something they needed to attend to because they tried to build it. Well, they did. They built a stage after midnight when everybody was leaving. And it was almost empty by the time they'd finished. So the ceremony was a shame. But the crowd absolutely loved it. Some of the exchanges, we saw some incredible rallies tonight. half a dozen really spectacular points where you could see and hear and feel the crowd hanging on every every stroke that's being played and and every get that's being made and every incredible volley and run down and it was wonderful to to hear that to hear that engagement and buy-in by this crowd my sense was that this was a crowd that was getting to come to the US Open and watch tennis rather than absolute hardcore tennis fans I think you get a lot of that at the US Open anyway you get it's not just people who love tennis all year round they were reacting to these spectacular rallies and they weren't being cynical about any of it you know and and and which was great the US Open and the USTA really judged that well I think they understood how to how to make this thing work um it's but these these tweaks i hope they go in the one direction i

18:30Catherine Whitaker: suspect like you say they will go in the other and and they need and as you said they need the single stars the crowd were there because of the names the single stars and that and the crowd elevated the event and brought a buzz to it it was it was great it was really great but But I fear that they're going to go the other direction and the novelty will wear off. And then it will just feel like, I think it will feel more like an exhibition.

19:00David Law: It'll be a competitive, fun exhibition.

19:03Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

19:04David Law: Yeah.

19:07Catherine Whitaker: And I think that would still bring good crowds. They'll still get that element. But it won't have what we had tonight.

19:15Matt Roberts: It was notable tonight. and look I had a good time throughout the evening other than the the the lull midway through the first set of uh of the final when I was just annoyed that it wasn't fast four that was the

19:30Catherine Whitaker: funniest and I feel like we should say like why we think it was weird for it not to be fast four I think it was because you know at that point we were starting to get quite late in the evening the crowd, okay, they've only seen two matches, but they've now got to invest themselves in a third match. I just felt like it was primed and ready for it to happen all quickly. And there was a big gap, much bigger gap than there had been between other matches. There was more FAF tonight than there had been yesterday. It just felt like the whole thing of the event was getting on with it and quick, fast, sharp, and just felt like we slightly lost that.

20:10Catherine Whitaker: It did turn into a really good final. and the comeback in the second set was why generally I like longer sets, because you had time for it to turn and the momentum was swinging and all that kind of thing. I wasn't in the mindset for that type of tennis because we'd had fast four the whole way through. It did feel a bit weird shifting. I wasn't watching any of the other matches thinking, I wish this was normal format. No, exactly. Incredibly. It had worked.

20:44David Law: Yeah, but I did think that I would get to the final. And you may remember yesterday, we'd heard on ESPN yesterday that both the semis and the finals were going to be to six games. That was clearly wrong. I got that wrong. I think a lot of players walked out onto the court not knowing the format, David. I don't think you're alone. But it was interesting. I was convinced that that was a plus point, that it was going to be longer today.

21:10Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, me too.

21:11David Law: And actually, being in the stadium, I don't know how it felt watching on TV, being in the stadium, I really wanted all the fast four elements of it. It just worked.

21:22Catherine Whitaker: It just felt like there was a little moment in the final where the crowd had run out of energy. They got it back at the end when it got spectacular.

21:30Matt Roberts: That was very much my trajectory. I ran out of energy. I got it back big time. Expended it all on Saru Rani's underarm serve.

21:37Catherine Whitaker: I can't believe it's taken us so long to mention the underarm serve.

21:39David Law: Can we go through this? sure it was it was just incredible so this tie break's happening and vavasori and irani i mean that they've led by a set they were five three up they served for it vavasori served for vavasori served for it and he did choke um and and look shvantek and and rude played some unreal stuff to get it back. They were giving all their singles powers in order to come up with the goods. And then you kind of knew that as soon as they got that back that Irani wasn't going to hold on.

22:22Catherine Whitaker: Whereas the previous Irani service game, she'd been Love 30 down and Fiontek and Ruud had missed three returns in a row and then Ruud had shanked a four. That was astonishing. It was unbelievable.

22:33David Law: They hit four clangers in that game. And you're like, I can't believe they're this good and they're hitting shots that bad. And then it goes into this tiebreak and right at the start of the tiebreak, I mean, Vavasori at the start of it looked like he'd seen a ghost. He looked so edgy and nervous because, I mean, the guy has got half a million each for them on the line here. He and Nirani have already said that they're playing for doubles players everywhere in this tournament and they've dominated the whole tournament. Suddenly, they've blown it. And they're in a 10-point tiebreak. One set all against the world number two in the women's game and a former champion.

23:18David Law: And Kasper Rude has reached the final in the singles. And all the momentum's with them. And suddenly, they won one point and Vavasori was back. He was. And he was leaping around the room. doing his jumping jacks his sprints it was our to Rindeknesh stuff and they went three love up in the in the tie break they then went eight four up I think and there was this wonderful moment where suddenly the realisation is oh my word Arani's got two points on her serve to win the title and bear in mind the fastest serve I saw her put in all tournament was 77 miles per hour and she'd hit several in the low 60s.

24:05David Law: She got to match point. She hit a... And in our little media seats, a conversation started up between Matt and Catherine. I want to see an underarm serve.

24:18Matt Roberts: And I wondered if she would because she does. She's done it before.

24:22Catherine Whitaker: She's got form. You know, she hit one en route to winning the gold last year and she hit one, I think, against Igor Sviontek in the Billie Jean King Cup.

24:33David Law: Yeah.

24:33Catherine Whitaker: You know, like, in key moments, she has underarm served in the past.

24:37David Law: But she hit a normal first serve. And it was like, oh. And then she missed. And we're like, oh, no, what's she going to do now? I mean, that serve was about 64 miles an hour, and it missed. Second serve, she motions as if to hit a serve, a normal serve. And then she went under it with the underarm serve. And before the crowd realised what had happened, Catherine just made a noise that I can't reproduce. It was very loud and it was very high-pitched and it was completely involuntary. And everybody around us just sort of jumped out of the seats. And then the rest of the crowd cottoned on. Oh, my word, she's hitting underarm serve.

25:21David Law: And then we're into a rally and they're going all over the court. and then a forehand sat up for Rorani to finish it. And then it was volleyed back at her and then she couldn't get the ball over the net. And so the chance had gone. And they had a second match point.

25:36Matt Roberts: It should have been the winning point, shouldn't it?

25:39David Law: It would have been even more perfect than it was. But they won it on their second championship point.

25:46Matt Roberts: The problem was that because I was primed and anticipating a potential underarm serve, I reacted a split second more quickly than the rest of the crowd. It was incredible. It also reacted, you know, there was a cacophony of response and noise a split second after my high-pitched screech, which I think will have been audible both on the court and on the broadcast.

26:13David Law: Because you made it when it was in complete silence. Still. I was so excited. That was one of the most exhilarating moments of my life. You knew about the underarm serve second in the entire room after Asar Arani. It was incredible. She is incredible.

26:36Catherine Whitaker: And I went back to have a look at the statement that Arani and Vavasori put out. Do you remember this? back in February when the concept was announced. They criticised the format as a pseudo-exhibition focused only on entertainment and show, a decision made without consulting anyone which we can do nothing but accept. We see it as a profound injustice that disrespects an entire category of players. Putting money above tennis is never a good idea.

27:09David Law: And how they're millionaires.

27:11Catherine Whitaker: They split 200 ,000 last year When they won the title And they split a million this year I mean it is just Perfect It's incredible It is absolutely perfect It is the perfect conclusion To this mixed doubles thing

27:32Matt Roberts: You think they'll be invited back next year Matt?

27:34David Law: Oh they have to be

27:35Catherine Whitaker: I'm not convinced

27:36David Law: They can't risk this happening again This was not a disaster for the US Open. This was...

27:43Matt Roberts: I don't think so, but I...

27:45David Law: I think they'll be pleased with it.

27:46Matt Roberts: I think... I don't think the USTA are happy with this outcome.

27:49David Law: Oh, I don't agree. I think that they... No, I hope I'm wrong, but I... I don't think they're happy with it. I think they've got drama out of it.

27:56Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and they kind of lean into the... to the sort of drama that they've created.

28:02David Law: I think they've had their cake and they eat it too. They do, yeah. They've had all the names. they've had a full house everybody's loved it really most people have anyway I'm sure there are some of our listeners who just didn't like this whole thing at all and didn't want to know I understand that I respect that as people who are more into tennis than I think the people in that stadium were on the whole so they achieved their goals they got ESPN TV they got this massive show it was all over in two days all the players were happy with it they don't feel like they've been over extended they've had compliments and now they've had two players who've made a big noise and have made it extra competitive made it dramatic and gone and won it and that shows the legitimacy of it really if you like if they wanted to prove that it's a real mixed doubles tournament well they've just kind of proved that that can be a thing.

29:11David Law: My concern is that they will invite them back because of all that but that they won't have anybody else and if they then don't win it next year then they won't be back.

29:23Catherine Whitaker: I mean Sara Rani is 37?

29:28Matt Roberts: Yeah.

29:29Catherine Whitaker: I mean you have to wonder how much longer she's going to be able to play continually at this level.

29:34Matt Roberts: It looks like a pretty evergreen game.

29:36Catherine Whitaker: It does. I mean, she can under-asserve when she's 67, probably.

29:43Matt Roberts: I really hope you're right. I just worry that the USTA view all this really differently to how we do. I think so. I think so. I think we are, you know, we're ironists, aren't we? like we've had a lovely silly time tonight. USCA don't want anyone having a silly time. Like we've loved it, but we haven't loved it in the way that they have intended people to love. You know, they're ironically saying the word reimagined all the time over the, you know, the MC is delivering the word reimagined so much.

30:29David Law: And the Caspar Rude going for his first Grand Slam title at his fourth attempt. I mean, I'm sorry.

30:41Matt Roberts: I wonder whether that was being said tongue-in-cheek, but I don't think it was.

30:46David Law: That did tickle me. Listen, I hope they get it, because they've actually, by mostly design and some fortune, stumbled upon a fantastic situation here and they could make it even better.

31:03Catherine Whitaker: It's massively elevated fan week, which I think was their goal. And I would like to see some tweaks. I think the way it sits in the tennis calendar was a big problem. It starting a day after Cincinnati finishing was a joke. I mean, credit to Igor Sviontek, I have to say, for playing as she did. I mean, that's partly Cincinnati's fault. It is Cincinnati's fault. Finishing on a Monday. It's Cincinnati's fault. But I would like to see that just figured out for next year, like, you know, so that we're not in this situation again, because that was a problem. I think some of the entry, you know, people backing out and repairing, and whether you can repair or not, I think that was all a bit, it was all a bit messy, you know, like the process of the various different entry points and all that kind of thing.

32:02Catherine Whitaker: I found that a little bit messy through the year. I think that could be tidied up.

32:07David Law: I think the big fear they would have if they did any more doubles teams is that they might end up with a semi-final line-up of Vavasori and Arani. And they definitely don't want that.

32:17Matt Roberts: Collins and Harrison against Vavasori and Arani was already pushing it a bit, I think, for vibes.

32:22Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, but I think there's absolutely no way they go towards what we want.

32:29Matt Roberts: Yeah.

32:29Catherine Whitaker: I think they might. Yeah, I think this is a moot discussion. I think they might let Irani and Vavasori in. Once. Yeah. Until they lose. I really worry that they won't. I really worry that they won't. I also think there would be, like, there would be a lot of interest for me to have a Sinna-Sinniakova type pairing. A top singles player and a top doubles player. Okay, maybe not a top doubles team, but like I think there'd be scope for a lot of those sorts of pairings Shelton didn't do well

32:59Matt Roberts: did they?

33:01Catherine Whitaker: No they didn't I don't I mean the fact that they lost to Collins and Harrison because Collins is not fit

33:07Matt Roberts: no

33:08Catherine Whitaker: it would not surprise me if she pulls out of the singles

33:11David Law: oh I don't think

33:12Catherine Whitaker: she'll pull out I don't think she'll get very far she's desperate to cash the cheque as she says take the first round

33:19David Law: she's unapologetic about that she's she wants the money and, you know, fair enough, she's earned the money by ranking. I don't think she's pulling out. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top-grade products across the board.

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35:26Matt Roberts: Okay, well just to round out our discussion of the reimagined US Open Mixed Doubles Championship, an official Grand Slam tournament, I'm going to pick up where I left off yesterday with just some quick fire questions.

35:43David Law: Okay.

35:44Matt Roberts: about it all. Maybe not quick fire, sort of one sentence, one word, but you know, pithy stuff, you know, not finishing after midnight type stuff. Snappy format. I mean, it is, it is 1.52 in the morning, but spiritually not finishing after midnight. Get on with it. Okay. Oh God. Right. What worked? Let's list the things that worked about this thing. Yeah. Yeah. God, life comes at you fast, doesn't it? Doesn't it?

36:17Catherine Whitaker: We're fast four people. Yeah. Most of it worked. Most of it worked. I loved yesterday.

36:26Matt Roberts: But the headlines, if you're doing a feedback form,

36:28Catherine Whitaker: headlines, what worked? Yesterday, the nature of it taking up the whole day, matches everywhere. Two courts. Two courts. Split screen. Split screen on ESPN.

36:42David Law: Proper commentators on the courts, passing it over to each other.

36:48Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, the buzz of it, like seeing all the different pairings. Like we were suddenly presented with 16 fun pairings. I thought that was great. That really worked for me.

36:58Matt Roberts: Okay, what didn't work? The stage. And this is not unique to mixed doubles. No, that was ridiculous. The erecting a stage. Yeah, crazy. The indulgence of it.

37:10David Law: just totally unnecessary

37:12Matt Roberts: but just so highlighted by doing it after midnight when everyone was leaving see all the crowd dispersing everybody just took

37:19David Law: one look at that and said oh I'm not waiting for that

37:22Matt Roberts: honestly the bloke sitting to our right who had lost his mind when Irani and Vavasori won a crazy point in the in the tie break not even to go match point up not even when they won like it was to go

37:38Catherine Whitaker: 7-4

37:39Matt Roberts: it was right to go 7-4 I mean he everybody in our section of the crowd was staring at him and for the next point I was actually watching him and not watching the tennis because he like

37:51Catherine Whitaker: I mean he could have done

37:52Matt Roberts: anything he could have streaked on the court he was that pumped and that next point

37:56Catherine Whitaker: was Igor Sprintek double faulting and he double fist pumped

37:59Matt Roberts: oh he double fist pumped that yeah he did not stay for the ceremony no he was more hype than Arani and Barasori Jasmine Parolini

38:08David Law: was thinking of not staying I think what else didn't work

38:13Catherine Whitaker: kind of as I said earlier I thought like the whole situation around Sinner not being able to play Sinniarka for being in but then her not playing and then it being Harrison and Collins I thought that was

38:26Matt Roberts: I don't think that worked the entry requirements like everything to do with entry requirements the fudging of it all the subjectivity of it all eight wild cards. Yeah, that was too many.

38:42David Law: I think there's room for a couple.

38:46Matt Roberts: You're okay with one-eighth of a competition being wild cards? You think that's compatible with integrity?

38:54David Law: There's a lot of wild cards around in Terrace. I know you don't like them, but they're everywhere. They've always been there. It ain't going to change.

39:03Matt Roberts: But the more you have of them, when you've got the more you have of them the more they compromise integrity i do think it

39:11David Law: the dilution of them matters yeah i mean i've i'm okay with one or two um by the way i i thought being in the stadium tonight and i wouldn't have noticed this on tv the djs really work the way the the way they they fill the gaps and they are part of the entertainment and part of the staging of the countdown okay the countdown into a VT didn't work as well for me I would rather have that into suddenly the players appearing in the tunnel but I really enjoyed the DJs being I enjoyed the DJs too

39:46Matt Roberts: but they are covering up for faff there was some unnecessary faff tonight that there wasn't yesterday

39:51David Law: but it just felt it kept energy levels high in there to me I was constantly dancing

39:58Matt Roberts: we're in the what didn't work section David you had your chance to bring up the DJs in what works.

40:03David Law: I'd forgotten that bit so I thought I'd just make sure it was there.

40:07Matt Roberts: Yeah, bit too much faff tonight. Yes. But at least there was a DJ. And overall

40:11David Law: over the course of the two days I thought it was really pleasingly faff free. Yeah. The speed, even down to Sam Querrey in the interview saying, right, you are going to be on here again in four minutes time. Yeah. Right at the end of the interview which I just thought marked everybody's card. We're getting on with this. Okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think they did that well.

40:34Matt Roberts: Another thing that didn't work quite literally was the video review.

40:38Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, that was a farce. Oh, that was terrible.

40:40Matt Roberts: I mean, this is not, I feel like that could have happened in any match, mixed doubles or whatever. Like, tennis has not sorted itself out with this video review thing.

40:50David Law: Jessica Pergoula seemed to think there'd been a double bounce, so she'd patted a winner away, but she'd hit it whilst over the other side of the net, basically. Because she thought the point was already over.

41:00Catherine Whitaker: So she got called for it. So Rude and Svantec turned it on her and challenged her shot.

41:07David Law: And basically, the stadium had no idea what was going on, who was challenging what, why they were all standing around. I don't think they even knew there was a challenge system for that kind of thing. And the umpire tried to say a couple of... Bless him. But the screens weren't working, none of the replay systems worked. It was a bad seven minutes. Yeah. Anyway.

41:28Catherine Whitaker: And actually, you mentioned Sam Querrey and the interviews, the sound system in Ash. I mean, again, not specific to the mixed doubles, but it doesn't work. I mean, players can't hear questions that are being asked.

41:42Matt Roberts: There was a fantastically awkward interview yesterday with Pagula, Draper and Sloane Stevens. And on TV, you think, well, what's the problem?

41:50David Law: We can hear you clear as day because they've got broadcast quality mics going straight to the TV. and yet the players who stood right next to each other can't hear each other and all of us in the stands it's just

42:03Catherine Whitaker: you have to really tune in to try and hear what's being said I can't tell what anybody's saying yeah so that doesn't work but again that's not specific to the mixed doubles no

42:14Matt Roberts: anything else? do you next question do you want to do this again next year?

42:21Catherine Whitaker: oh yeah absolutely it's great and would we I think I want all the slams to do it.

42:26Matt Roberts: Would we come out a day earlier again to cover it in the way we have this year?

42:30David Law: I mean, I don't regard it as a news story next year. I mean, I enjoyed it and I want to watch it again. And if they did have the doubles teams that we're talking about against the singles players, I would want to see competitively who wins. I'd be interested in that. But as entertainment and competition. but you know personally I'm here early because it's new okay last last section proposals and

43:02Matt Roberts: amendments if you again it's a it's a feedback form to the USTA what are your three key proposals or amendments that you would put forward for the format well I mean it really is those doubles

43:17David Law: teams the champions from the other mixed doubles tournaments um don't lose that because that's that was the best bit of this um stage stage definitely and um yeah it's just a few tweaks i think they did a brilliant job i really do

43:42Catherine Whitaker: matt not much to add really i think i think we're on the same pretty much the same page

43:50Catherine Whitaker: yeah I think I would like to see you know I think one of the things that for example the United Cup does really well is seeing a lot like seeing a lot of the interactions within within the team and I kind of think that maybe there was more to like maybe they could have got some more content out of the fact that we had these pairings. So, yes, we saw them interacting on court, but maybe they could have given us some more practice sessions or...

44:24Matt Roberts: Like the Runa Anisimova content that we so enjoyed. Which was great.

44:28Catherine Whitaker: And they did a little bit of that for some teams, but it wasn't, like, consistent. Where they failed to high five. And they streamed the Raducanu Alcaraz practice. Yeah. But, you know, I just felt like, just get even more out of those little... Because it's built for that. It's built for it. We would eat that up. Yeah, we would. We did eat up the Runa leaving Anisim overhanging for a high five and her having to style it out. Watched it three times on a loop. Like, even more of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Okay. It's been fun. Really fun. I really did have a fun night. There was a lull and there was quite a long queue at Eataly for dinner because we discovered the media restaurant closed at 8 o 'clock.

45:197 o 'clock?

45:20Catherine Whitaker: 7 o 'clock. 7 o 'clock. At the time that matches, well, they didn't even start at 7 because it was faff. But yeah, media restaurant closed at 7. A lot of things closed. Yeah.

45:32David Law: That's probably a little bit of feedback. Very good. Keep stuff open, folks. yeah yeah absolutely okay but but fun has been had fun has been had uh we hope you've enjoyed it as well um it's been a good it's been a good kind of loosener hasn't it to to get us into the us open oh absolutely i feel i feel so ready and yet also so worried that nothing can possibly compare to that sorry rani under i'm served moment i it's the one point slam all over again i've peaked too soon what are we gonna do uh what we're gonna do is come back and do daily podcasts from friday

46:15Matt Roberts: onwards folks uh that makes it 14 15 16 17 daily podcasts from friday onwards we have two previews and then it all kicks off on sunday with 15 daily podcasts from the final grand slam at the 20 2025 tennis season. We have our live show tomorrow or today. Later on today. How much sleep will we all have had? Who can say?

46:40Catherine Whitaker: There's going to be a PDF dropping in my inbox in 10 hours. Not 10 hours. Yeah. But we're pumped for the live show. And to everybody that's coming, we can't wait to see you. We really can't. It's going to be great. Folks, we have our mascots, of course. Hello to Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Are we going to have shout outs, Matt? Have you got it in you? Yeah, it's been a fun show. Yeah. Off you go then. We have Lee Ferguson. Hello, Lee. Right, Lee. Who is from Kent.

47:22David Law: Very good. Like Lee Child, the former British tennis player who's now involved at Queen's or Wimbledon?

47:31Matt Roberts: Is it Lee Child, an author? The Jack Reacher novels?

47:36David Law: I don't know.

47:39Matt Roberts: Is it the same person? No.

47:42David Law: Definitely a tennis player, Catherine. Big server back in the day.

47:46Matt Roberts: Lee Child. Well, Lee Child is a pen name, I think, for the author.

47:51Catherine Whitaker: Okay.

47:52Matt Roberts: Can we just confirm they're not the same person? Yeah, so Lee Child, singular, is the writer.

47:59Catherine Whitaker: Right. Lee Childs, plural. Yes. See? Or, not plural, that would be Lee Children. Anyway, Child with an S is the retired British tennis player. Yes. Thank you, Matt. Wow. Well, thank you, Google.

48:18David Law: No, thank you, me.

48:19Catherine Whitaker: Thank you, David. I beat Google to it. Always. Thank you, David. Following match victories in 2000, Charles was hailed as the future of British tennis. Correct.

48:30David Law: Wow.

48:30Catherine Whitaker: Massive serve. And how did that future look? He famously defeated Nikolai Davidenko at Wimbledon in 2003, Wikipedia says. Yep.

48:38David Law: Correct.

48:39Catherine Whitaker: He then lost in the next round to 17-year-old Rafael Nadal. Wow. In straight sets. I remember that. I'm feeling Charlie Ecclesham. I've been at that match. Of course he was. Lee, thank you for taking us down this long and winding road Yes

48:55David Law: What a treat

48:57Catherine Whitaker: And for the purposes of this episode He reached the third round of Wimbledon Mixed Doubles in 2002 Who with? Stand by

49:11Catherine Whitaker: Elena Val Tatcher Oh, bless Lee a truly long and winding road that I have enjoyed thank you for that and thank you for being a friend of the tennis podcast that was only our first shout out we've got two more we've got Tony Corbett hi Tony who is from Newcastle Australia

49:34David Law: yes and Tony works in tennis I know this because Tony's been in touch with us on email in the past and yeah works in tennis So hi Tony. What does he do in tennis? She.

49:53It's a man actually Derek. No it's not. No that's a famous clip. Oh is it? You know.

50:02David Law: Oh yes I remember.

50:10It's my favourite ever clip.

50:13David Law: this thing can't get any better got it Tony I'm sorry and that probably happens to you all the time and I really am sorry to be part of the problem continue telling us about what Tony does in tennis I can't quite remember Tony says

50:31Catherine Whitaker: been going to the Australian Open since well before it was popular a standout year was when we bought tickets to the Australian Open ball I remember dancing on the dance floor beside Martina Hingis.

50:44David Law: Wow. Whoa. Okay.

50:46Catherine Whitaker: I know you could buy tickets to the Australian Open Bowl. I always have a bit of a memory of that coming up in the show's house before. Is it just first come, first serve? Sorry, I don't know how you would possibly be able to answer that.

51:01David Law: No standby from that this time. Tony, again, thank you for taking us down this long at Winding Road. Absolutely. And thank you for being a friend of the Tennis Podcast.

51:16Catherine Whitaker: And finally, last but by no means least, we have Dawn Sawyer. Oh, Dawn. Hi, Dawn. I think Dawn's coming tomorrow night. She is. Or tonight. Yes. Yes, Dawn, a long time friend of the pod. Yes. Our strength and our stay. Really a core supporter. Mockers, Mum. Mocker's mum. Yeah. We're very grateful. And it'll be lovely to see Dawn tomorrow night. Any tennis Dawns? It's going to be Dawn here soon. Very good. We've got Sawyer, like former Australian tennis player Mary Sawyer. Oh. A two-time winner of the Irish Open who defeated Maria Bueno in the 1977 final. Wow. That's good. I think Vicky might have come up with that for us.

52:12Very good. Thank you, Vicky. Thank you, Dawn. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Lee.

52:19Catherine Whitaker: Maybe Dawn came up with that herself. I'm not sure who to give credit to. I'm going to give credit to them both because they're both excellent. They're both excellent. They both definitely could have come up with that. Exactly. Whereas we couldn't. Not at 2.08am. Dawn, Tony, Lee, thank you ever so much for being friends of the tennis podcast. If you'd like to become a friend, the link as always is in our show notes. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will see some of you tomorrow for our live show. We will speak to all of you on Friday and for the next 17 days thereafter. Welcome to the US Open 2025.

52:58We will speak to you soon.

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