US Open - Sinner OUT, Alcaraz IN!

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1:16Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to The Tennis Podcast, an emergency unplanned tennis podcast following two bombshell news drops from the tennis universe in the last 24 hours, or more specifically from the Sin Caraz universe. We can narrow it down to that. The tennis lords giveth and they taketh away, starting with the Instagram and other social media platforms post, but it was Instagram where I saw it, the incredible Carlos Alcaraz in a basketball top graphic with the announcement via a joint post with renowned football journalist and influencer Fabrizio Romano. Not sure how we deal with that element of things.

2:01Matt Roberts: But anyway, the news that he will be playing the US Open. He also posted a very comical video saying, here we go, Romano's catchphrase. Didn't bother to use one of those influencer microphones or anything like that, just raw-dogged it. It was very, very amusing. And he did an emoji of the American flag and a plane. This will, of course, be his first Grand Slam since the Australian Open. And it'll be his first professional tennis since retiring with a wrist injury at the Barcelona Open on April the 14th. So we see that announcement yesterday. We're all guns blazing. We could not possibly be more pumped for the US Open.

2:46Matt Roberts: and then earlier today we get the announcement from Yannick Sinner that he is withdrawing from the US Open. He said, even though I've been working hard with my team and my medical staff, we have now had to make the difficult decision that I will not be able to compete at the US Open this year. We've been back on court in Monte Carlo over the last couple of days and I've realised that I still need more time to recover from my right knee issue. I'm obviously very sad and disappointed as New York has a special place in my heart. And Sinner has not played since winning Wimbledon on July the 12th. David, tennis comes at you fast.

3:28Matt Roberts: Cool.

3:28David Law: I mean, we've had some weeks in this sport, haven't we? But this one is right up there. Yeah, I really didn't know what to make of this last couple of days because when the Alcraz thing dropped, I'm still a little bit sceptical just generally about that because it just seems crazy to me to be trying to come back four or five months after not playing and then start at the US Open. But, you know, you two seemed up for it. So I thought, OK, well, maybe I'd better get up for it. And then Yannick Sinopold, and I must say the way that had been trending and the kind of silence that we'd heard in the last few days since he withdrew from Cincinnati.

4:17David Law: And then just one or two words from Italian media and one or two people that we know internally that it just didn't feel like this was really going so well for Sinner. And I don't think he's the type of guy that is going to take risks. And I think he's right not to. I think he might have tried to play and hope it got better or something like that. And I say that without knowing the severity of it, really. But I think if you've got doubts, it's just not worth it. And that's what worries me a bit about Alcaraz. But you've got to, you've also, you've got, if you've been out as long as he has, you've got to start somewhere.

4:56So we'll see, won't we?

4:58David Law: We'll see.

4:59Matt Roberts: Is his attitude, Carlos Alcaraz, this is, David, is his attitude to the injury up to this point one of extreme caution? has that not comforted you a bit or eased some of your concerns and anxieties about this comeback? I was expecting you to be more pumped.

5:19David Law: Look, I suppose it has. I think it sounds as though he's been sensible, but then I don't know the severity of it. But we know what the injury is, don't we?

5:31Matt Roberts: He has told us what the injury is and he hasn't needed surgery.

5:35David Law: but i've just i said i've seen so much of jack draper trying to make comebacks and sound upbeat and sound bullish and try to push on and then not be able to that or any part of any anybody dealing with that part of the body wrist um all those tendons in there the the the horror stories that we've seen in the past make me anxious, really, for tennis players generally. And somebody who hits the ball with such violence like Carlos Alcraz does, there's going to be a lot of stress on that part of the body. And look, I absolutely hope that it is caution. I'd be fascinated to know how close he got to playing those other major tournaments because you know he would have been just straining at the leash to get on the course.

6:29David Law: and get out there. I mean, he must have missed it so much. But I can't help but just worry about it because the temptation might have got too much for him. It might have been more sensible to target the Australian Open and work his way into that with the next two or three months. But look, I'm not his doctor. I'm not his trainer. I'm not his manager. I'm not him. I just hope he's got this one as far as he can right because you don't know, do you, until you get out there and feel the stresses and feel the sort of different kind of tension you're putting on those tendons when you're in a match conditions.

7:11Matt Roberts: Okay, let's take David's pumped T-shirt off the market. I am excited.

7:17David Law: I'm just a bit worried too.

7:21Matt Roberts: Yeah, I mean, look, yeah, I hear you. I'm worried about every tennis player, particularly every men's tennis player. I just feel like everyone's a ticking time bomb. But choosing to put that to the back of my mind and leaning into the pumpedness, Matt, these two announcements, and we do have other bits of news to cover as well. Draper's now officially out of the US Open. We've got this injury to Rabakina that puts her in significant doubt for playing the US Open. We've got their prize money announcement as well. We're going to cover all of this in a kind of US Open preview show, even though we're still more than a week away.

8:03Matt Roberts: But just looking at these two, this twin set of announcements from Sinner and Alcaraz, are you feeling net positive or net negative?

8:18Catherine Whitaker: Is neutral an option? Because, you know, it really does feel like, you know, as you said at the top, giveth and then taketh away. I share all of your trepidation about Carlos Alcaraz there. I think for me, the biggest concern is that he didn't play Cincinnati. He deemed it not quite ready to come back a couple of weeks ago. And now here we are. He is coming back for best of five sets at the US Open. To me, that's just quite a big jump in two weeks to go from not ready to play to playing a Grandstand tournament. And I have some concern there, but it's Carlos Alcaraz. And my excitement just gets in the way and overrides all of that.

9:04Catherine Whitaker: And we've not seen him for four months. And to me, he's the most exciting tennis player in the world right now. And the thought that we're going to get to see him play tennis again, maybe not at his absolute best, is exciting to me. And therefore, I'm really, really pumped about that. And I also, not being inside the team, not knowing what's going on, I have to trust that he's got good people around him and that they are making informed decisions and not rushing him back in a way that's going to make it worse. So I'm very positive, generally, about Carlos Alcraz coming back, but I'm gutted about Sinner.

9:47Catherine Whitaker: And you said it at the top, the Sincares universe, they are a they are a duopoly they are more compelling when they're both in draws together I think and when their stories are intertwined in this way and you know it's going to be three slams in a row without one of the biggest draws in men's tennis okay maybe you know about Djokovic you stood in that conversation but sort of the players of this era the ones who can transcend the sport we're going to we're going to be missing one of them three slams in a row and I think the thing about Sinner is is the sense of mystery around it. You know, like the last time we saw him playing, he was winning a Grand Slam tournament.

10:26Catherine Whitaker: He has not stepped on a tennis court to play a match since then. And now he's out of a Grand Slam, like missing a slam for the first time in his career. This is serious. And yeah, I just don't know what the injury is really. I don't know when he did it. I don't know how he did it. And all of that just adds to the sense of mystery surrounding it. And, yeah, like I'm interested to hear from Alcaraz in terms of whether he's made any changes to his technique or his training and any that kind of thing. And then in the future, I'm interested to hear from Sinner about what caused this knee injury. Of course, we'll get on to the conversation about there is also the element that it makes the draw fascinating.

11:09Catherine Whitaker: And there's that. There's that. We just had one of the most compelling men's Grand Sam tournaments in a long time at the French Open with so many upsets. I'm excited about it from that point of view as well. But I'd started with Alcaraz's announcement to get excited about the possibility of seeing Sinha and Alcaraz again together at a tournament. And now we know it's going to be the Australian Open at the earliest until we see that at a major. And yeah, it's a blow.

11:37Matt Roberts: Guaranteed not to see them face one another in a Grand Slam this year. to think a year ago we were not diagnosing Sincaraz fatigue but the but the the term was floating around out there wasn't it um a whole year without either without one at all i mean amazing to think with the australian open well we had we had the monte carlo final didn't we

12:04David Law: no but i mean at a major tournament yeah yeah that's what i'm saying yeah yeah extraordinary And that in a way, you know, can give you some hope.

12:15Catherine Whitaker: You know, we're such prisoners of the moment. Last year it felt like they're going to meet in every Grand San final forevermore. Now it feels like, oh God, we can't get them at the same tournament. Like things change and hopefully this is the outlier year. Let's hope. Yeah.

12:33Matt Roberts: If today's taught us anything is that tennis really does come at you fast. I mean, look, Alcaraz's year has been bizarre, obviously, becoming the youngest man to complete the career slam and then not playing for four or five months. But Yannick Sinner's year, so odd. So it loses to a 38-year-old at the Australian Open. OK, that's a reductive way of putting it. But loses to a 38-year-old at the Australian Open when the Sincaraz final was, you know, all but nailed on. has the most bizarre of all bizarre exits at the French Open, then pretty casually and comfortably wins Wimbledon, then gets a knee injury out of nowhere and is missing the US Open and maybe beyond.

13:23Catherine Whitaker: And in between the Australian Open and the French Open was completely unbeatable. Yeah. OK, sorry, shout out Jakub Menchik in Doha was that. He did manage to beat him, but then like just swept the Masters.

13:36Matt Roberts: I mean talk about a tale of he's going to I mean even if he has a chocker post-US Open period which I'd be very surprised about personally regardless of how serious this knee injury is there's just not enough at stake for these top two guys to to to put anything at risk with the post Grand Slam portion of the season I don't think I mean didn't even play Davies Cup last year did he I know the ATP Finals is at home and he cares about that tournament. I'm not saying he's not going to play, but he's going to have played maximum available tennis in the first half of the season and barely have played in the second half of the season and yet won a Grand Slam in it.

14:21Matt Roberts: It's just such an odd season for Sinner. I mean for tennis

14:30David Law: It is I suppose we end up getting so used to these players delivering particularly Sinner to just not be injured really to not yes to suffer with the heat but I've never really thought of him as the guy who will get a proper injury you know he's been remarkably durable overall and I hope it's not serious. I mean, it must be pretty bad to cost him this much time. But yeah, it does make you feel a bit unstable as to where your ground is when you're so used to a set of circumstances in a tennis world. I mean, look, I'm old enough to remember the 90s when nobody knew what was going to happen unless Sampras and Agassi won the thing.

15:25David Law: I mean, there were periods where you went into these things in the early 2000s where you just had no clue. There was no dominance from anybody, really, for little spells. But we haven't had that for a long time because there's been, in men's tennis, the big three and four, and now there's been these two. And it is... The fact that you go into this tournament with no sinner and with a completely unknown quantity now with Alcaraz. Simultaneously fascinating, but also just a bit unsettling.

16:03Matt Roberts: Can you imagine how gutted Carlos Alcaraz is? He finally gets to come back and his buddy's not going to be there.

16:13David Law: I think he's so happy to come back if he's able to come back.

16:18Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's his overriding feeling. But I think he's sad that Sinner's not going to be there.

16:25David Law: Yeah, he'd prefer it, I think, for sure.

16:31Matt Roberts: Yeah, I think more than that. Anyway, maybe I'm romanticising. Maybe I'm too online. Mixed doubles for Carlos Alcaraz? How do we feel about that? It seems like that's happening, doesn't it? I know it's not announced. I mean, they're drip-feeding it, aren't they? Serena's been commenting on Alcaraz's post. Again, it feels to me like Serena Williams and Carlos Alcaraz are very soon going to be announced to be in the mixed doubles field at the US Open, which is actually, aside from the Serena of it all, the mixed doubles is actually quite a convenient vehicle for Alcaraz, I think. Perfect. play some competitive tennis, get the feels of being in that match environment again and on a big stage and get the feel of the conditions, but it frankly not mean very much and not be too taxing on the body.

17:33Matt Roberts: I think it's a dream setup for Carlos Alcaraz.

17:39Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I think so. I think it's happening. You know, Serena commented, oh, OK, I like seeing this on Alcaraz's return. And Alcaraz replied with an eye emoji and an hourglass. And Ben Rothenberg in his substat bounces was reporting that, you know, he's heard for a while that those two have been expecting to play. I think that's going to happen. And I agree with you. I think it's a nice way back in. I think actually it might not be quite enough which seems like a silly thing to say but I think it's quite likely they lose their first match and it's all over in about half an hour you know some very low intensity mixed doubles fast fall like I think of Federer coming back at the 2017 Australian Open you know when he's obviously he was at a completely different point in his career to Carlos Alcarez, but he hadn't played in a while.

18:41But he used the Hotman Cup as a warm-up.

18:44Catherine Whitaker: And that's lower intensity, but he got a few matches there. Nadal at that tournament obviously was coming back as well. And he played Brisbane before. And so these are the recent examples we've had of players being out for a long time and coming back for a slam and going deep in it. So I think some sort of warm-up is useful.

19:02Matt Roberts: The Winston-Salem guys were waiting by the phone and are crushingly disappointed right now, aren't they? Yeah. I was so enamoured with just the concept of Alcaraz going to Winston-Salem. Apparently it's like the least glamorous event in men's tennis. Like the player accommodations are like dorms and it's like in a gym, in a very like quaint, you know, in an endearing way. But I really loved the idea of Alcaraz being there. maybe another year

19:40Matt Roberts: are you into it David? Serena and Carlos Alcaraz?

19:46David Law: oh yeah that would be fun a lot of fun I'd love to see those just for the atmosphere alone and with the layoff of Alcaraz generally and the sort of re-emergence of Serena altogether I mean, the place would fall apart. It's going to be amazing. I just want that moment as much as anything. I fear I'm going to be on a plane when that happens.

20:13Matt Roberts: I think you are, Matt. Yeah. Praying for your in-flight Wi-Fi. It's always a bit of a waste, isn't it, the two of them playing together, because each of them is such an event in and of themselves. like combining the the two together is almost too much vibe to be contained within one moment and one tennis match look i can't wait but um imagine what the internet will be doing yeah yeah it's gonna be it's gonna pop off isn't it yeah i think it it definitely seems like that's happening and I am pumped okay I know I know every element of the next part of the conversation has to be prefaced with and Matt is going to say it repeatedly we haven't seen the draw, the draw isn't out we don't know, there's a lot of unknowns and unpredictable things until we see that draw and it's going to be just another hanging on every every well no names don't come out of the draw at the US Open do they it's a PDF I actually think the draw is less impactful here than it has been at the last two where

21:33Catherine Whitaker: Sinner has felt like more of a banker and it's felt like you want to be in the other half and obviously that didn't turn out to be the case at the French Open because he lost but there was But here, Alcaraz is obviously there, but he's not played in months. And that's a very different position to what Sinner was in going into the last two majors, if that makes sense. So it feels like the draw is more of a free-for-all, I think. OK.

22:00Matt Roberts: OK, well, then I want punchy predictions then from all of you. There's no, no, you can't use that as a get out of jail free card. who I know it feels kind of wrong to talk about the Sin of a Drawal in any positive terms. And I know there are no tennis players, no athletes that would celebrate this happening. However, the facts are it benefits. It benefits a lot of people. This is good news for the prospects of a lot of hopefuls, a lot of the guys that have been trying to knock at the door, some more successfully than others and have been waiting for an opportunity like this. So who is the Sinner withdrawal the biggest deal for, David?

22:47David Law: I mean, I kind of think it might be the biggest deal for Zverev because the last time he didn't have to play Sinner, he won the thing, you know, the French Open. So I think if he gets deep and doesn't have to play that guy, he's probably going to be feeling pretty good about his chances. But I would just add Fritz to that conversation because Fritz is the guy who played Sinner in the final couple of years ago. And just, I think he was taken aback by just how good Sinner was that day, and that Sinner had moved on, and I don't think Fritz had his very best day, but I don't think it would have mattered, really, the way Sinner was playing.

23:37David Law: And without Sinner there, and with a questionable Alcraz, I think he will really fancy his chances at this US Open, because he can beat everybody if his knee plays ball. And if he plays well, obviously, I mean, I still think there are people that could play a higher level than Fritz on a given day. I think there are people with higher ceilings, but I think his floor is so high that I would kind of think that he will be chomping at the bit, really. I mean, he's a good enough pro not to get carried away in the moment, I don't think, and ruin his own chances. I think there's one or two that have done.

24:19I think there's one or two that have ended up playing worse as a result.

24:23David Law: you know I mean there's others you know think Shelton's definitely one of them as well he's had a lot of problems with Sinner and I really feel like Shelton is in with a chance of winning this thing but overall I'd just about go with the other two Zverev and Fritz Matt

24:44Catherine Whitaker: yeah I mean look I have the same names as David I would add in Novak Djokovic I was waiting for someone to say that name the wolf in winter you say sorry i mean the wolf as he shall now be known yeah catchy isn't it look he's beaten sinner at a slam this year so maybe you could say he he could have won it anyway but you know i think the the real evidence is over the last few years and he has found sinner generally very very tough to beat over over five sets um and with uncertainty over Alcaraz and with guys who yes have got a big chance here but haven't been there and done it and as we've seen at the last couple of majors actually some of them have performed worse when when the the opportunity has been there and I just don't think Novak Djokovic is going to do that I think he has his own potential roadblocks to even get to the title you know that aren't anything to do with Sinner and Alcaraz, his own health, the heat, his body, trying to win more efficiently, all these sorts of things.

25:56Catherine Whitaker: But if he can do that, he knows now that he can get to the latter stage of a tournament and Yannick Sinner is not going to be there. And that is huge, I think, for Novak Djokovic. So absolutely him to go with Zverev, Shelton, Fritz. Do we throw... Do we throw Eminem Caballi in there? As the guy that...

26:23Matt Roberts: Post-Eminem Caballi?

26:24Catherine Whitaker: The guy that at Roland Garros...

26:26Matt Roberts: Who will never have to pay for another Eminem as long as he lives.

26:30Catherine Whitaker: He was the one at Roland Garros who did step up. Okay, he didn't win the title, but he got to the final and did his part in a way that we've seen others not do over the last couple of months.

26:42Matt Roberts: Talk about rounding into form at just the right time. And he keeps on doing these interviews saying, I feel so fresh. He's like, you know, he comes off court after a marathon, yet another marathon deciding set victory. And he's like, I just can't believe how fresh I feel. Don't know. Yeah, I would throw Cabali in there.

27:07David Law: Give up on my vitamins and get the old M &Ms in, I think.

27:10Catherine Whitaker: And then there's just like a whole tier of guys who you could also throw in there. Hodder, I think, given the form he's been in.

27:21Matt Roberts: You think he's in a tier? Who's in a tier with Hodder?

27:26Catherine Whitaker: I think you could also put Feast in there. In the same tier as Hodder? Yeah, because they just haven't really shown it at slams yet. As title contenders here. To me, they're a little bit below the names we've just mentioned as first beneficiaries of Sinner going out because they've got some other stuff to prove, I think, at Slams. Whereas, as David said...

27:53Matt Roberts: But they also don't have the scar tissue.

27:56Catherine Whitaker: Right. So they're a bit more unknown.

27:59Matt Roberts: Shelton was the first name that sprung to mind for me. But then what happened to him at Roland Garros in Wimbledon is really scarring to me from a Shelton point of view. You know, the size of the opportunity there and how badly he fumbled it. Now, I know he's done all the right things since then and he's trying to sort of channel that experience in a positive way, but it's to be proven. I think he's raised a serious question about his sort of ability to seize opportunity with those two results in Paris and Wimbledon, Whereas, you know, someone like Rodar, he might not be good enough yet. He might not have the legs yet, but he's not bringing any baggage to the table.

28:45Yeah.

28:46Matt Roberts: I mean, Fees is bringing a hip injury to the table, which is...

28:51David Law: So far, so good this week, though, Catherine.

28:55Matt Roberts: You're very inconsistent, David, about when you choose to be optimistic and when you choose to be doomful about injury-prone tennis players. Let me tell you, Fees.

29:05David Law: A week ago, I wasn't like this. A week ago, I was a bit down on Feast.

29:09Matt Roberts: But I've had a good week.

29:10David Law: We've had a good week, me and it. We've all had a good week.

29:13Matt Roberts: Okay, like me and Kabali. Yeah, one round of M &Ms, and I'm throwing him in the mix for the US Open. The bookies have Carlos Alcaraz as the favourite. What do we think about that?

29:27David Law: I wouldn't put him there. But I'm not exactly sure who I would. I'd probably put Zverev there. Matt? Even though I don't really, I'm not convinced by Zverev's form personally, but I feel as though, look, he's the guy who's just reached the last two Grand Slam finals and has been playing regularly. We have no intel on Carlos Alcraz's form, fitness or anything.

29:51Matt Roberts: Isn't unknown form better than known bad form though? Which is what Zverev's in. We know Zverev's not in form.

30:02David Law: not on these hardcore tournaments no but but i mean he's he still reached the last two grand sand finals and they weren't a million years ago you know it's i'd i'd i mean he should still be

30:13Matt Roberts: thinking very bullishly about this oh yeah i think but he is also not in any kind of form right now i'd say that that's yeah matt alcaraz favorite for the us open i can see it i can see why they've

30:30Catherine Whitaker: got that i can like i would to be clear i would take the field over alcaraz but if you had to push me for a name i think i would pick alcaraz like because i have to just i just have to trust that he's coming back and he's ready to come back and i don't think he'll be at his best straight away but i think he's so good that he might be able to use a couple of rounds to to find some form and if he hits form and he's fair he's definitely the favorite so the question is can he do that and he's so good and all-time greats have they do extraordinary things you know we've we've seen we've seen people win slams in more improbable circumstances than this i suppose is what I'm saying.

31:24Catherine Whitaker: Rafael Nadal was numbing his foot at Roland Garros and won the tournament. He'd won 13 of them. Yeah, but he was numbing his foot, David. He wasn't fit to play.

31:37David Law: Carlos Alcres hasn't even been playing for five months.

31:40Catherine Whitaker: He has not played one tennis match. He hasn't played competitively. He's been hitting tennis balls and, you know... Played for four hours with Holger Runa yesterday. as I said Federer had six months out and came back and won the Australian Open having only played the Hotman Cup Serena Williams won the Australian Open pregnant I'm not sure

32:01David Law: Runa is with his recent record is somebody I'd be taking as an acid test of where I am no

32:10Catherine Whitaker: he was available all I'm saying is I'm not saying he's going to win it and I'm not saying it's a disaster if he doesn't win it I'm not trying to put any pressure on him to win it. He's in the mix to lose in the first round and win the title for me. That's how good Carlos Alcaraz is. I trust the level that I know is in there. There's just an unknown about whether he can find it.

32:38Matt Roberts: Yeah, I agree. If I had to name one name, it's Carlos Alcaraz, but certainly not Alcaraz over the field. and I certainly wouldn't be at all shocked if he loses first, second round, any round, quite frankly. What if I offered you Americans or Carlos Alcaraz? What chance now do you give the Americans as a collective? Fritz Tiafoe, Shelton, Tommy Paul. That was a generous Tommy Paul threat. I've done that for my dad because he's become a really big Tommy Paul guy.

33:16David Law: I'd take that.

33:18Matt Roberts: You'd take the Americans? Would you take the Americans over Zverev, David?

33:23David Law: Yeah.

33:24Matt Roberts: Yeah. Would you take the Americans over Zverev and Alcaraz? The top two seeds. No. No. Okay. Matt?

33:38Catherine Whitaker: I think I'm with David. I think throwing Zverev and Alcaraz in there feels like you've got the most, it feels like you've got the most, probably the most reliable guy there in terms of Zverev. And then you've got the unknown quantity of Alcaraz over the Americans who I think have got a real shot here, but I'm not sure I trust any of them really. You know, Fritz is generally the guy I trust the most, but I'm worried about his knees still. I know he's saying they're responding really well, but seven five-set matches is a lot. Shelton?

34:22Matt Roberts: I should just interject to say I'm being corrected. Brandon Nakashima has never had so many chat mentions. People are screaming his name from the rafters in there. Should probably have said Brandon Nakashima. Should I have said Brandon Nakashima? I don't know. At the moment, probably yes.

34:42Catherine Whitaker: I think if you said Tommy Paul, probably Nakashima should be in there. But I'll be honest, I didn't think it was a glaring omission. Learn a TN I was thinking of, but that's my own personal bias.

34:58Matt Roberts: Yeah. All of them, Matt. Riley Opelka's in there. You can have the whole bunch right down to the bottom of the American barrel. Yeah, I mean, who Elkraz gets first round is... Who are the dangerous floaters going to be? Who are the ones that would make you sharp intake of breath? I mean, Burtick.

35:23Catherine Whitaker: I think I saw that... I think I saw Hatch and I was going to be unseeded. Is that right? Oh, God.

35:31Matt Roberts: Yeah, I think that is where I saw that too.

35:33Catherine Whitaker: I know his form's not great and that's why he's unseeded but that would be... You'd make your play for four hours Yeah

35:42Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's rough

35:44Catherine Whitaker: I think Tarante still be unseeded right? Like, a guy like that in form Yeah

35:51Matt Roberts: There's a few out there but

35:54Catherine Whitaker: Who did you say David?

35:56David Law: He wasn't very good last night He wasn't He was just terrible I mean he's obviously had a good week but I was happy to be there last night

36:10Matt Roberts: Okay I'm going to have to ask you for a US Open prediction right now please I know I know you don't hate me

36:18David Law: No it's alright

36:20Matt Roberts: I'm going to go David's only saying it's alright because I said in a WhatsApp group an hour ago I will be annoyed if there are eye rolls when I ask for a prediction

36:30David Law: Yeah, I've been giving myself pep talk ever since. Be upbeat. I appreciate it, David. Be helpful. Shelton.

36:40Matt Roberts: To win the US Open? Wow. Like it. Matt?

36:49Catherine Whitaker: I think I've told you mine now, Kras.

36:55Matt Roberts: Do you want to see think, David, that would be like sort of an all-time achievement if Alcaraz comes back after not playing for four or five months.

37:04David Law: Yeah, I do, yeah.

37:05Matt Roberts: And wins it. And a massive shock because where I stand now,

37:13David Law: I mean, I just have nothing to go on in a positive sense other than history. Now, his history is amazing and he's not 40, you know, but crikey, I mean, I just have no reason to be optimistic for him with anything I've seen with my own eyes in like five months. And if he came out and he played... Look, I do agree with Matt. If Carlos Alcaraz is fine, it would probably take him about seven minutes to hit top four.

37:46David Law: But I just don't believe that you can go from what he's had. Or I'd be surprised if he went from what he's had to sort of physically unimpeded over that amount of time that you'd need to play. I'd be worried about that. So if he did it, I mean, I think it would be awesome, really. It'd be an incredible moment.

38:12Matt Roberts: Is there any argument at all? Now, obviously, there are downsides, significant ones, to returning at a Grand Slam. I don't think anybody would plan it that way. But is there an advantage to it? in that you have time. He has time to, provided he's got the cardio fitness and I back him to have that. I mean, I know you can't replicate the match conditions of it and that's going to take some adjusting too. But a better three-set match can be over so quickly. You come out cold. You come out flat. You come out a bit knackered. You come out a bit stiff, whatever. It can be over before you know it. you have time in a best of five set match.

38:59Matt Roberts: Is there any argument that for Carlos Alcraz, given his age, there are benefits?

39:06David Law: Yeah, I can see that. I think so. And especially given his record over the distance.

39:11Matt Roberts: I'm just thinking that everybody's so like, oh my God, coming back first tournament at a Grand Slam. Like, what a nightmare would he be doing? Like, maybe not.

39:20David Law: Yeah, I mean, I think my bigger concern would be just the strain on the injury over that amount of time. If he gets into a long match early on and it's not properly being tested, I would really worry about it breaking down. And again, I realise I don't know the full extent of it. I don't know whether it works like that with this particular injury, but that's what concerns me. But absolutely, I think there's an argument that having some time to sort of get used to it again in a match is useful and give him time to exact his brilliance on people. And then the fact that he's got this extraordinary record over the distance.

40:05Matt Roberts: My prediction is Alcaraz as well. Definitely not Alcaraz over the field, but if I had to pick one individual, it's Carlos Alcaraz. Which is, I don't know, maybe madness. we had a look at the the odds earlier and I mean we haven't even mentioned Alex de Menor have we but Holger Runa had better odds for winning the US Open than Alex de Menor which is insane which is insane

40:38Catherine Whitaker: but like he's probably not going to play the tournament if you're putting your money on Runa

40:43Matt Roberts: well I did wonder if because I mean as much as I you know, we're not fans of betting on this show and we don't, you know, it's just not a world that we're involved in. When I was texting you in the week saying, you know, the internet is saying Yannick Sinner is less likely to play the US Open than Carlos Alcaraz, very understandably so. I think both of you were like, yeah, Catherine's reporting on what the internet is saying is notoriously unreliable. I'm going to ignore that. Fair enough. I do historically fall for the internet a lot. But it was when I saw reporting that his betting odds of playing or his odds in the tournament, I don't know, is it that they fell or that they rose?

41:40Matt Roberts: I don't know. But there was a massive shift in the betting market on Yannick Sinner. and like that doesn't happen unless people know something right and so the fact that what was i talking about holger runa the fact that they have holger runa in the odds suggest to me maybe maybe they're in with team runa no i think that that's top end intel okay

42:07David Law: um i've seen it with manager odds for my football team for instance of people that i just know are not going to get the job um and they're up there in the in the race well they just don't have the intel they're just sort of going on they don't know what they're talking about with that particular one whereas with the sinner thing you i think that i think you can maybe get a steer um or

42:39Catherine Whitaker: what we have from Holger Runa is him being on Served, Andy Roddick's podcast and saying that he's targeting the Davis Cup as his planned comeback and then that being reported and Runa going on Twitter and saying everyone's saying I've withdrawn from the US Open and I haven't people need to stop drawing to conclusions and it was like well no you didn't withdraw from the US Open but you did heavily imply that you're not planning to play. So, you know, the last thing I heard Horga Roona say was that he's probably not going to play the US Open.

43:15Matt Roberts: Used this period of injury as a sort of learning and maturing opportunity. Evidence suggests he's going to come back exactly the same guy for better and for worse. But now a honey impresario as well. What a guy. Sorry Matt, go ahead

43:36Catherine Whitaker: Well I was just going to say Hannah just made the point in the chat That all these names we've mentioned And we haven't mentioned Felix or Shea Eliassine Who is going to be one of the top seeds And lost to Yannick Sinner at the US Open last year Do you think that's unfair?

43:55Matt Roberts: Potentially I'm not a Felix believer at all

43:58Catherine Whitaker: I do have more faith, I think, in Shelton because he's managed to win Canada a couple of times when it's been open and he's been the one who's surged and done it. And he's repeatedly run into Sinner and Alcaraz at the slam. So it makes sense. And it's in America. It makes sense to me that he would be the first name that we would kind of go to outside of the ones who've already won majors. but I guess if I've mentioned Kabbali you could probably say that Orgele could be in there as well I don't think he's quite got the extra gear maybe the kick that Kabbali's got Grandstand results would tell you that Yeah, but maybe he doesn't need that is what I'm saying, to win this one if Sin is not there

44:56Matt Roberts: There are still a lot of better players than him. I know the ranking. But there are a lot of better players, I think, than Felix. I think Fritz is a better player. I think Shelton's a better player.

45:09David Law: I wouldn't put Felix in the mix, would you?

45:12Matt Roberts: No. I would be surprised if he wanted. He withdrew from a tournament with a back injury a couple of weeks ago. I don't think I'd put him in the mix either.

45:22Catherine Whitaker: But to me, he's... To me, he's quite similar to like a Tiafoe or...

45:33Matt Roberts: Don't think Tiafoe's in my mix.

45:37Catherine Whitaker: Even like a Medvedev. He's not in my mix, to be clear. I haven't mentioned him either, have we? He's been playing... But he's sort of in that tier, just under the guys in the mix, I suppose.

45:50Matt Roberts: Is Hodars ahead of Felix for you both?

45:53Catherine Whitaker: I would say so, yeah.

45:56Matt Roberts: Just a final one on this. It is interesting how little any of us have mentioned Novak Djokovic, isn't it? Because six months ago, when we were talking about Alcaraz being absent from slams and OK, we were still talking about Sinner being a problem for Djokovic. But the person that it felt like it had the single biggest impact on and their chances of winning that slam was Novak Djokovic six months ago and it doesn't feel like that now. Is that right? Does that feel like that is a shift that has taken place over the last couple of slams?

46:38David Law: I also feel like if this was the Australian Open, I'd be more bullish on Djokovic's behalf. I do think there are different tournaments for him in that regard. the record would tell you that and he just he never looks as convincing at the US Open to me um I mean look he still won it several times so you know that's it's all relative but um but I still you know I says I also wouldn't rule it out you know I I don't feel confident that he won't win it because the chat somebody's going to win it who is a bit of a surprise to me because even if Alcaraz won it, it would be a bit of a surprise. There's no mix.

47:20David Law: No one in the mix.

47:24Matt Roberts: Jack Draper, definitely not in the mix. He confirmed today, having suggested or having been reported that he was planning to play qualifying. We have heard today, as reported by Tomaini Carial in The Guardian, he is withdrawn from the US Open with his arm injury. he said it is unclear when he will play next sorry that's Tomeini that said that unclear when he will play next I mean it's no great shock it's almost a relief to hear this that he's not going to sort of put himself through the motions with sort of a feeling of inevitability about the outcome but it is another confirmation of an incredibly depressing picture for Jack Draper.

48:13Matt Roberts: I can't help but think about there's that video that went viral, isn't there, of Sinner was on camera doing a BBC interview and he found out that Jack Draper was having to withdraw from Wimbledon and he looked so genuinely devastated for him and now it's happening again. But Sinner's also had to withdraw him. So it's just a bummer. It's just a bummer. I know injuries are always a feature in sport, but to consistently be denied seeing the best players in the world at the biggest tournaments is such a shame.

48:50David Law: And with Jack, it doesn't feel like an injury. It feels like somebody's just taking his career away altogether, and I just hate that for him.

49:03Matt Roberts: Yeah, get well soon. Jack Draper, Yannick Sinner, everyone else in the tennis sick bay, quite frankly. And we'll talk about Elena Rabakina on that note in part two. Hello, folks. This is Catherine from the Tennis Podcast. And as you might know, creatine is one of the most researched and effective supplements available. I personally have been taking a creatine supplement for a while now. I have a chronic back condition that means I'm always looking for ways to build sustainable strength in my body. But I have noticed that as this supplement category has exploded, most brands have focused on flavors, formats and marketing instead of actually making the creatine itself better.

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52:24Matt Roberts: For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50 % off and free shipping for your first box. Plus, free dessert for life. Go to homechef.com slash tennispod. That's homechef.com slash tennispod for 50 % off your first box and free dessert for life. Homechef.com slash TennisPod. You must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Welcome back to part two of today's unplanned tennis podcast. Seeing as we're here, we'll cover off some other bits of news that have dropped pertaining to the US Open in the last couple of days. One of them transpired on court in Cincinnati overnight and that is that Elena Rabakina, who was in a situation of needing just two wins to overtake Irina Sabalenka as the world number one.

53:15Matt Roberts: Sabalenka having lost a few days ago in Cincinnati. She was forced to retire after just five games of her quarterfinal against Iger Shontek. She came onto court with a lot of strapping on her left foot and ankle area, her Achilles. She was trailing in the match 4-1 and she pulled up. She called the trainer, following a consultation with the trainer. She only played one more point before retiring. She was clearly unable to play. She couldn't put full weight on her leg while attempting to serve. The reporting has been that it's the left ankle area which is bothering Rabatkin. And she gave some quotes which were reported by the Associated Press.

53:59Matt Roberts: She said, of course I feel not the greatest. It's painful to walk. we'll know more tomorrow when we have the MRI it's been bothering me for a long period of time but felt like I had it under control it was feeling okay before the match unfortunately one wrong movement and something happened look we don't know she doesn't know until she has the results of the MRI what I saw David looked like somebody that was unlikely to play the US Open

54:32David Law: yeah I had the same thought I this was horrible this moment because I I woke up early this morning and avoided the results what stuck this one on was really really enjoying the first few games thought she was playing really nicely and then there was little little flashes of what Rebecca can do and then I mean she showed just a little bit of discomfort one one point and then the next point she just stopped as though something had gone that's how it looked at least and i uh it was horrible i don't think i've ever seen rebecca injured quite like that before i think i've seen her maybe with back problems before but not nothing anything like this and um you know it it looked like uh she'd got the achilles strapped you know the back of the the back of the heel there and i i went to the physio yesterday to have uh work on a on an achilles and he told me it was tendinitis and uh which i've i've never had before and um and it doesn't actually impact movement for me like at all i i i get some pain but i can move back and i watched her and she could not move like she couldn't push off at all so i was i found that really scary um so yeah she needs to be sensible as well whatever it is she does play a lot

55:53Matt Roberts: Rabakina those quotes about how it's been bothering me for a long time but I felt like it was under control look she knows her body better than I do but those just raise flags for me I mean I generally just always worry about her she does seem to go through periods of feeling like she's hit the wall and is trying to play through it um and look maybe she just likes being on tour and likes playing a lot of tennis but yeah when i when i saw the quotes about how to be bothering her for a long time and now it's just gone i did think yes not not great for somebody that you want to be for somebody that could still take the number one spot right like she there's still a strong chance

56:41Catherine Whitaker: of that yeah i think it's probably the most likely scenario at this at this stage you know that she might not play the US Open but still get the number one spot if Sabalenka doesn't defend. I think Pagula and Goff are also in the conversation, depending on how they keep going in Cincinnati and what they do at the US Open. But yeah, for someone on the cusp of a career moment like that and getting to world number one to be injured like that, I mean, at any time that would be terrible. but particularly right now it feels really gutting. And yeah, look, we don't know she's out of the US Open, but it did not look good.

57:26Catherine Whitaker: And the quote painful to walk is very concerning, I think, with the Grand Sam around the corner. I feel confident that Taylor Fritz is going to need to find a new partner for the mixed doubles. I will say that.

57:42Matt Roberts: I mean, he genuinely is probably really gutted. he loves the Fritz from back in a mixed doubles duo

57:52Catherine Whitaker: who

57:53Matt Roberts: do we think he'll get who do you think is his first choice and who do you think he'll end up with I think one of my favourite parts of the well she was supposed to play with Draper wasn't she so she's now she's not in the field right

58:08Catherine Whitaker: can he tempt Goff

58:11Matt Roberts: I think Goff is I think the tournament will have tried everything to get Goff to play. They will have desperately wanted it. So I would be unsurprised if Taylor Fritz could offer Coco Goff anything more appealing than what she's already been offered and declined. But I could be underestimating the offerings that Taylor Fritz has at his disposal.

58:38David Law: They've been a United Cup team, haven't they?

58:40Matt Roberts: Yes, as have Fritz and Pagula. More so Fritz and Goff. She's very tolerant of his... She finds him amusing in next doubles. Yes, I seem to recall that Goff quite enjoyed Fritz's...

58:56David Law: Well, I wouldn't say enjoyed.

58:58Matt Roberts: Tolerates.

59:02Matt Roberts: I've interviewed them a couple of times after United Cup mixed doubles and she always says, yeah, he talks a lot. She says, you're really chatty, do you know that? Venus Williams hasn't got a partner.

59:18Catherine Whitaker: I think deep down, I think Fritz would want to decline Venus Williams. Do you know what I mean? I think he wants to win it.

59:34Matt Roberts: Yeah, I do too, because he is a mixed doubles specialist. lest we forget. Well, then it's Pagula, isn't it? Pagula's got to be his first choice.

59:44Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I think so. And the tournament will want Pagula to play. We know that Medvedev's taken a wild card into Winston-Salem, so Schneider, Medvedev, they're not going to be in the mixed doubles.

59:57Matt Roberts: So Schneider's on the shelf. Yeah, but I think Pagula's more likely. Yeah, he's a bit random, Fritz, though. I could see him ending up somewhere a bit random. Katie McNally, people have been suggesting, which I think is quite a good shout. Yeah, big in the Philippines.

1:00:20Catherine Whitaker: Randomly played with Mazzetti last year.

1:00:23Matt Roberts: Is Keyes playing? No. No. Well, maybe you can tempt Keyes to play. She did last year. Right now as we speak. Yeah, she did. I feel like she was awful.

1:00:38David Law: Yeah, she was. She played with Tiafa, right?

1:00:42Matt Roberts: Yeah, and they were embarrassing.

1:00:44David Law: Yeah. The level of effort was utterly embarrassing.

1:00:50Matt Roberts: Yeah. Jovic? I'm just naming Americans. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Shall we move on? That's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about US Open Prize. money. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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1:02:39Matt Roberts: welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast yesterday made the the u.s open made a series of announcements. They said they will be awarding record prize money once again. They'll be offering a total player compensation package of 108 million, which is up from 90 million in 2025. Singles champions will take away $5.5 million. And first round singles losers will receive$140 ,000, which is an increase of 27 % on last year. Of the$108 million total,$101 million is for prize money with$2 million going to a newly formed player support program and$5 million is going as stipends for food and hotels.

1:03:35Matt Roberts: Matt Futterman reported in The Athletic that the$101 million prize pool for 2026 is a 19 % increase on last year's 85 million and it's likely staved off any player protests over remuneration that of course we saw at the French Open in Wimbledon this year. 101 million is 18 % of the 2024 US Open's operating revenue of 559.7 million dollars. We don't know the 2025 revenues yet they haven't been published so 2024 is the the best data that we have available the players involved in the protests want prize money as we've been reporting at the four grand slams to represent 22 percent of their respective revenues by 2030 so this falls short of that but is significant progress the group apparently assumes that grand slam revenues will grow by 5 % per year when calculating its expectations.

1:04:37Matt Roberts: That would put its hypothetical benchmark for the 2026 US Open at$616 million in revenue and the prize money representing 16.3 % of that figure. Of course, this will be Craig Tiley's first US Open as the tournament director. He has committed to the players three asks over remuneration, welfare contributions, a Grand Slam player council and a prize money formula that is tied to revenues. Tylee met with the player group in Cincinnati and said that the association is aligned on all three of its asks, according to a person briefed on the talks who spoke on the condition of anonymity. the US Open also joined the other three Grand Slams hashtag Tennis United to form a new Grand Slam Player Council to give players a voice in on-court and in-tournament issues the Player Council will also provide recommendations to the US Open to guide how the new US Open player support programme will be deployed and these announcements have been very well received by that top player group who need a way better name than top player group.

1:05:59Matt Roberts: But they've received these announcements very positively indeed. How do you receive them, David?

1:06:07David Law: I think that this is not far off what I would have expected. It's actually even gone further than they thought they would go. I've said all along that I thought the US Open would make a real statement with this. and they would want to go big and be bigger than all the others. And then you add on to that the layer of their new leader, Craig Tiley, who loves a big announcement and who loves to be a player's friendly tournament director. I know he's not the tournament director, but he was at the Australian Open and he led Tennis Australia. He was always spoken of incredibly warmly by players, really, where all this sort of thing came up.

1:06:54David Law: And I think that he will want the players to simmer down and be on board. And he will have been prepared to push it a bit more and maybe lose out a little bit on the margins of profits and so forth. And I think that they have played a blinder overall, the players. I mean, they haven't had to do that much to make a heck of a move towards their goals. And, you know, for first round defeated players to be getting$140 ,000, you know, 100 ,000 plus pounds, that is significant money. and they've got the council and they've got the welfare package. I mean, it's been a success overall. I mean, I think there have been elements of it that have been a bit excruciating over the course of time.

1:07:58But look, the overall move at the moment

1:08:03David Law: in pretty short time has got them what they wanted. Now, whether it carries on is another matter. That's going to be quite interesting to see. but um yeah it's um it it it when i hear about the simultaneous rises in grounds pass prices admittedly on the secondary market i i do wince a bit there when we're talking about the players getting these enormous rises and just think look that the next thing they need to do is figure out a way for this not to be the way it is price-wise for the punter who wants to go watch. It's great that they have a successful tournament that everyone wants to go to and that they sell out and so forth, but the secondary markets really bother me.

1:08:49David Law: That having been said, Fan Week is amazing. They lay on this week of tennis and entertainment, come in the doors, watch tennis up close in practice you know and and that's really cool so there are loads of good things going on there are things i'd like to see change as well but um it's no surprise to me that craig tyler starts with a bang and i suspect that will carry on

1:09:16Matt Roberts: there's gonna that first round prize money is now so high um and you know i think it's right that the the distribution of the prize money increase has gone more to early rounds than than to to later rounds and that's what the players have said they've been they've been calling for that they're doing this on behalf on behalf of lower ranked players but I think there's there's going to be unintended consequences to that I would like to track the rate of first round retirements because that that it's just such an incentive to take to the court that amount of money. I know there's the new-ish rule to try and deter that and the rate of first round retirements has gone down as a result of that rule being introduced but yeah, that is data I will be wanting to keep an eye on, I think.

1:10:09Matt?

1:10:10Catherine Whitaker: Not much to add really. I remember Jamie Baker, Wimbledon tournament director, talking about wanting to lower the temperature and it just feels like That's what's happened here, right? Like the Grand Slams have responded by upping the prize money. OK, not yet to what the players are asking for, but getting there and big increases. And they've got this board and it just feels like everyone is now a little bit more on the same page. And you would have to say, as David has, that the protests that the players did and the unity they showed has been effective. up to this point and moving things along.

1:10:55Catherine Whitaker: And I think it might be interesting to see in the future, you know, like the US Open is kind of blowing the other slams out of the water, really, in terms of the amount of money they're offering now. Like, I do wonder whether we're going to get to a point where how united are the grand slams kind of thing. You know, if one of them is able to do a lot more for the players than the other, that might be a way that this saga develops, which will be interesting to track. I hope the Grand Slams stay as unified as they can.

1:11:29Matt Roberts: It's also interesting, it's sort of buried in the announcement, but it's interesting that Tylee has committed to prize money being tethered to revenue. It's the headline figures that are grabbing the headlines, but that's quite a big concession, I think, Because again, recalling the Jamie Baker interview, he gave a really fulsome explanation of why that's just sort of not appropriate in tennis. Now, you might disagree with that, but sort of applying the percentage of revenue formula that you have in US team sports just is comparing apples with oranges. So that's quite a big move, I think, and not necessarily one that the other slams would replicate.

1:12:21Catherine Whitaker: The top player statement did say that it's not yet tied to an agreed revenue sharing formula. So maybe there's still some way to, you know, to go on that. And maybe Craig Tiley's got his own sort of idea in mind of what that is, but maybe isn't fully agreed yet. But I do think that's an important point to raise, that that might also be different for the slams. You know, like each slam is different in terms of the way tournaments are run and their costs. Yeah.

1:12:58David Law: Anything to add, David? Yeah, I do remember a piece, and I really feel bad that I can't exactly remember who wrote this, who reported it. It might have been Matt Hughes in The Guardian. and he's got a lot of contacts within this group and has been doing a lot of the reporting. But apologies if I'm getting the wrong person here, but I remember a while ago, I think around Wimbledon reporting, saying that actually the French Open were looking at the revenue link and they were meeting with the players and that was something that they were prepared to do. Now, obviously, they've got quite a long time until they need to reveal anything.

1:13:38David Law: but yeah it now feels a little bit like Wimbledon has taken the strongest stance against that concept at least outwardly so it'll be again fascinating to see what the Australian Open do without Craig Tiley in the chair

1:14:01Matt Roberts: The Player Advisory Council at the Slams is also interesting isn't it I mean that's what they've been calling for seems a no-brainer for the Grand Slams to give them that. But in practice, this is not the same as the ATP and WTA player councils that have voting power built into the structure of the organisation. This is just an advisory council. Their advice can be ignored. I don't think that is just a neat resolution of this issue forevermore. I could see there being bumps in the road with that down the road. And again, the different parties having kind of different definitions of what that actually looks like in practice.

1:14:46Matt Roberts: But time will tell, folks. Time will tell. This has been quite a way to spend an evening. There is really nothing I won't do to avoid packing for a trip. How long you got? The taxi's coming in 11 hours. I am a bit packed.

1:15:11David Law: Percentage is?

1:15:12Matt Roberts: 50.

1:15:15David Law: Okay, we can work with that. You'll be fine.

1:15:18Matt Roberts: But I've got a deciding set tie break to watch now. Thank you, everybody, for sticking with us, despite the fact that there is some absolutely thrilling live tennis happening. I'm sure most of you are multi-screening, but if we get this show off the road now, then maybe we can watch the conclusion of that. Thank you all so much for being with us live tonight, for joining in the chat. If you did that, for listening to the show, we'll be back on Monday with another live show streaming at 5pm UK time. It'll be up for you to watch whenever you like. It'll be up as a podcast as normal. And then we're, it's an avalanche of podcasts from that point onwards, folks.

1:15:54Matt Roberts: And that's assuming nothing happens in the meantime that we need to come and do an emergency podcast about. and you can never assume that with tennis apparently. So thank you all for listening and watching today's show. Hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Mazie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we'll speak to you on Monday.

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1:16:38David Law: Hiring for skills is super important because we'll have to go in adjacent industries.

1:16:42Catherine Whitaker: If you're going to do a transformation and reimagine your process, you have to say, okay, what are we going to get? Tune in for conversations with business leaders leveraging disruption to stay ahead.

1:16:53David Law: Think of a toilet as just an everyday object. Your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler smart toilet. Design changes everything, transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary.

1:17:06Catherine Whitaker: With standout aesthetics and intuitive controls, these are functional works of art. Stunning design that never sacrifices performance. Enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience. It's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets.

1:17:26David Law: Find more at Kohler.com.