US Open - The Big Preview

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1:25Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast and our final preview show for this year's US Open, the final Grand Slam of the 2025 season. You find us in the Media Garden in the eaves of the Arthur Ashe Stadium in what can only be described as a wind tunnel. It is 5.30 in the evening. It's pretty warm but not thick and sticky in the way it often can be in New York at this time of year. And we are here to give you our last gasp hot takes ahead of the tournament. And by we I mean myself, Catherine Whittaker, my co-host David Law and Matt Roberts. And for today's show we are also joined by the Athletics' Charlie Eccleshare buoyant after a 5-0 Arsenal win.

2:11Matt Roberts: Had it gone a different way, we might have cancelled your invitation, Charlie. Yeah, good news for everyone. We all remember last year. In fact, that's the most annoyed we've ever seen you, I think, day one of the US Open last year. That and being messed around for an interview yesterday that David witnessed and said he just saw all the signs. He spotted it. He could see from my body language, from my face. Yeah. Well, it's very good to have you. And we've got a lot to get into, I feel like. Like we, increasingly, I mentioned this yesterday, increasingly media day isn't really a thing, is it? It's two days, it's a period of time.

2:49Matt Roberts: And, you know, we have had, you know, we've had Chiantic in today, Osaka, Fritz, Draper, Alcaraz.

2:55Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, we normally refer to those coming in on day two as the stragglers. But it's too high profile a cast to call them stragglers. They're actually some of the main contenders to win the tournament. It's been a pretty even split, hasn't it? Yeah, often this day is like two or three big names. Works better like this, doesn't it? Yeah, I think so. Dividing it up so everybody gets a bit more oxygen, really. Yeah.

3:20Matt Roberts: Yeah, and the stories, you sort of spread out the stories a little bit. And actually we have, I feel like we need to cover this off. We have had, as a result of Novak Djokovic's press yesterday, the Serbian section of that press conference, some quotes have emerged from that and been translated suggesting that Novak Djokovic might be poised to hire Monica Seles as a coaching figure for this US Open. He said there are initial discussions. It's more about emotions than a long-term collaboration. It would mean a lot to me. And that would be entirely in keeping with Novak Djokovic's career to date, if you think about it, because this is a guy who has so far in his career hired Todd Martin, Mark Woodford, Boris Becker, Andre Agassi, Mario Anchic, Radek Stepanek, Andy Murray.

4:18Matt Roberts: Pepe Imaz didn't get a mention. No, I'm afraid not. I mean, obviously the standout was his long-time coach, whose name has escaped me. Marion Vida. Marion Vida. Sorry, Marion. but the fact is that I think and I really believe this was part of his hire of Andy Murray it's just curiosity and it's somebody he's always admired and he'd look at Monica Seles, I mean aside from the fact that she's an incredible tennis mind who won so many Grand Slam titles and was such an amazing player when he was a kid and would have looked up to her I imagine he just wants to hang out with her and find out everything she's thinking and was thinking and thinks about him.

5:04Yeah, well, like you said, it's an emotional thing. I mean, the US Open starts pretty soon. I mean, thinking about, like, we know something I might be doing. Coco Gauff's re-modeling her entire server. Yeah, maybe get this sorted.

5:17Matt Roberts: Yeah. I mean, he wants... He literally plays on a team tomorrow. He wants to look up. She's in the box. He wants to look up on the court and see someone there that he wants to impress. That's it, yeah. That's a great way of putting it, yeah. Somebody cool. He's added motivation. Yeah. And look, I know he still does have the motivation at the slams, but I do get the sense that this one is the toughest for him still. Like if he had to pick one not to play, it might be this one. Just where it falls in the season. I mean, after Wimbledon, we did speculate about whether he would even show up here. I think we all thought he did, but it occurred to us that he might not.

5:58Though I do actually think in some ways this... I know we felt the conventional wisdom was that either the French Open or Wimbledon is his best chance. But I think really what it comes down to for him is where his two big rivals who are so far ahead of him, and Sider and Alcaraz, can be diminished in any way. And I think the fact that Alcaraz just isn't the force he is at the French Open and at Wimbledon, the fact that there is the possibility that he could go out before he has to play Novak in the semis I do think that does make quite a big difference just because ultimately if Novak has to play them both he's just not going to win a Grand Slam he's just not he basically admitted that at Wimbledon I think the only way he can win one is if one of them gets beaten possibly even two and so I think for me when I look at where his best chances are I'm thinking well where can someone do him a favour and I think here and the Australian Open that's where that's most likely to happen

6:55Matt Roberts: That's very interesting and I suspect now he's seen his draw as well maybe it was after the draw came out that he picked up the phone to Monica Monica! I've got a chance here Monica

7:06Catherine Whitaker: Yeah I mean we're on I certainly think that in theory what Charlie says there is true I'm not quite sure in reality it does feel like that like Sinner feels incredibly fresh to me at this time of the season compared to what he might have felt if he'd played a really arduous grueling season and obviously had those three months off I think Sin has got a lot in the tank and Alcarez was in press today talking about how much better he feels at this US Open compared to last year's for example when obviously he had the Olympics like I don't know I think Like, the US Open so often has been the one where there's been more variety of winners.

7:49Catherine Whitaker: And we talked about it yesterday in terms of for them to actually play three successive Grandstand Finals against each other in a season, Alkraza and Sinner, that would be a historic thing. So chances are there could well be an upset. It just doesn't feel to me like we're primed for a big upset. Do you not think there are doubts over Alcraz here in the way that there aren't? Certainly at the French Open and Wimbledon. Just the fact that since winning it, he's had quite disappointing exits. I know that last year was a bit of an outlier. But I don't know, I just feel like he's got a little bit more to prove here.

8:25Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I think he's got more of an edge over a lot of players on clay and on grass. Those surfaces can bring out so much of the amazing aspects of his game. I think last year you've talked a lot about this Catherine I think we will come to view that Burtick van der Zandt's loss very much and very much through an Olympic lens I think it was so to do with how he was feeling after that in 2023 here he obviously lost to Medvedev that was a weird one wasn't it

9:01Matt Roberts: but Medvedev was unreal for that match

9:04Catherine Whitaker: that's the best match Medvedev's played in in years and it's so young still to beat him so I do agree that there is there is more of an uncertainty around Alcaraz here compared to the French and Wimbledon but like would you right now be predicting him not to get to that semi-final with with Josh maybe Charlie's

9:26Matt Roberts: an Apelka guy yeah no I wouldn't I wouldn't make that prediction but I also wouldn't be sort of like crazily surprised if it did happen just because most people can play on hard court so I don't you know I don't think he's going to face many people who are just kind of so unnatural on either clay or grass did you take a lot from that Alcaraz press conference in terms of what he said about how much better he's feeling compared to last year because it seems obvious to me that he would be feeling better than he was last year. And yet Carlos Alcaraz always comes into press and says, I'm feeling great.

10:03Matt Roberts: He's just never going to ever say, oh, life's a bit crap at the moment. He's Carlos Alcaraz. Well, I hope he never comes in and says that. I've never seen it before. That's just his vibe, isn't it? Great to be here. I feel great. Let's go. It's always really hard, is it? Because I wonder, I'm trying to think back to a year ago. And I remember what we were talking about was the fact that because he hadn't lost a grandstand final at that point, the Olympics was the first sort of really big loss he'd had and how he was going to respond. But I did think we also thought, well, maybe, you know, now he's got that out of the way and we'll see how he responds.

10:39Like, I don't, I can't remember specifically, but I don't imagine that this time a year ago we were saying, wow, he looked flat, he looked knackered, he's going to lose to Bottich Van de Zandt. Watch out for Bottich.

10:48Catherine Whitaker: I can confirm we were not saying that. We did a whole part one of a podcast in which I failed to mention Bertic and immediately put Alcrest through to the next round. Some people more than others were specifically not mentioning him. Yeah, I mean, I remember how crazy that was when after Jack Draper had won his match to get into the third round and all the questions to him after were, what's he going to be playing Carlos Alcrest? How's he going to be playing Carlos Alcrest? And someone, I can't remember who it was, said half-jokingly, like, should we do like a Bottich question? It was honestly like laughable.

11:24You know how normally you say to a player, like, can you give us a word on both of your opponents? Didn't even bother with that. Draper was impressed today, wasn't he?

11:33Matt Roberts: What did we make of what he had to say? He had quite a lot to say, didn't he? I feel like we learnt a lot about where Draper's at today. I don't know about you, I wasn't entirely convinced about the fitness of that arm because when he gave his first answer, I mean, look, watching him in the mixed doubles the other day, I thought, whoa, look how he's hitting the ball on the first day. And then I read a couple of tweets and a couple of messages and reports of people saying he was running around the forehand to hit the backhand. And so I thought, OK, well, when he was describing the details of what he'd had done and have you got the specifics, Catherine, of what the problem was?

12:13Matt Roberts: It was bone bruising to the humerus in his left arm, which is the funny bone, isn't it? Yeah, and basically he needed to rest it, didn't he? Yes, he said if it wasn't addressed, it could have become serious. He'd been playing with pain for quite a long period, started feeling it midway through the clay court season. He said he went a full month without hitting serves, and he went two and a half weeks without hitting ground strokes. he was still able to do other training and he did sort of confirm that he really put some time in in in the gym which is sort of visibly visibly evident um he did say there's still some pain but he said i won't be holding back yeah well slightly yeah i just exactly i just didn't see how those two things could follow no the way i asked the question was was because he said i'd been playing through it at wimbledon kind of managing it and i said are you still playing through something here at the moment how is it affecting you with your strokes and i just got the sense that that you know when they when they give you an answer and they they elaborate more than somebody who's fully fit would yeah if you're fully fit you just go i'm fine yeah i feel great whereas he just gave chapter and verse and and i and by the end of it i remember thinking well that ain't standing up to scrutiny but then also it totally stands to reason he doesn't want to say that you know he doesn't want to give his opponents that you know lift by saying yeah I'm massively playing through pain but yeah I didn't really see how that stacked up and also the fact that he was asked well at Wimbledon then you never mentioned it and would that explain a little bit why you did struggle and again he played that down which I think was I'm sure a lot of that is just out of respect to Marin Cilic he doesn't want to come in to the interview room and be seen to be saying yeah I was injured and that's why I lost but I think it also just speaks to the fact that you know players don't like to play in these things and yeah I didn't come out of that press conference reassured I have to say.

14:15Matt Roberts: And if it is more of a problem than he's prepared to explicitly state then kind of big picture that's a massive worry for him isn't it because he's just taken a month off you know month without hitting serves he said he said I had a a longer time off than I even had in pre-season like if that hasn't sorted it out and it continues to bother him when when's he next going to be able to have a long month off is if this is a chronic situation that he's managing and playing through it's hard it's hard to see this getting better any any time soon and he kept on coming back to the mantra of i'm just desperate to compete which kind of underlines the suspicion that maybe that desperation is a big part of the decision making.

15:04Catherine Whitaker: And kind of interesting how within the same press conference, he was obviously asked a lot about his new clothing deal. Yeah, by Charlie. By Charlie.

15:14Matt Roberts: Charlie's a clothing guy.

15:16Catherine Whitaker: Very much so.

15:17Matt Roberts: We'll come on to that in a moment, Charlie.

15:19Catherine Whitaker: Thanks. We do very often talk about, you know, pressures on players to play. and he's just signed this new deal. He literally said, I'm the face. Penny Bivori's thoughts.

15:31Matt Roberts: Yeah. I'm the face of that brand. He is all over Manhattan. Yeah. It really struck me how much Jack Draper there is around, you know, around Gramercy Theatre where we did a live show the other day. Like, not a Tennessee part of town. Jack Draper's face appeared a lot.

15:47Catherine Whitaker: And I'm not saying he's only playing the US Open because of that new brand, but like those small pressures that players have to deal with in terms of playing. If you are managing an injury and it's a question of whether you play or not, that might be the sort of thing that pushes you to play and it might not be the best thing for your career overall. And defending a lot of points as well here. Here, for sure, absolutely.

16:12Matt Roberts: You've been asking, you're obviously working on a piece about clothing sponsorship. I assume, Charlie, unless it's just a personal interest. Just really interested, yeah. Just trying to get a sponsorship myself and I'm hoping if I put myself out there enough in press conferences. You've been asking a lot of players about that element of kind of off-court stuff. And he was interesting on it, Draper, wasn't he? Like, he did pretty much explicitly say, because obviously he was with Nike before, and now he's with this relatively unknown brand. He's now a big fish in a smaller pond rather than a smaller fish in a bigger pond.

16:41Matt Roberts: And he said that was a big deal. Like, he didn't want to be playing third fiddle to Sinner and Alcaraz anymore. That was an interesting psychological insight. Yeah, Tiafoe said something similar yesterday. and then you know he made it he was a great line he said something like yeah Nike have one or two decent players or something it was it was really well put um yeah I think that does make a big difference to players and he also Draper was interested to say like yeah when you're playing against a guy wearing the same kit as you it's it's not great that was a dig I you know obviously I don't think he's like going after them individually we know that's a thing in tennis but yeah I mean I think a lot of players it's become a bit of a trend you know play and moving towards kind of like lifestyle brands and obviously you know jack talked about it this sort of thing is really important to him you mentioned you know there's billboards and things like that but yeah i think you know it's an it must be for these players you know when you've got like sinner and alcaraz dominating the tour like they do you might think well at least i can go and like be the guy for this other brand and he did talk about that so clearly that does mean something to it Tennis Twitter thinks that Nike have sort of lost interest in tennis, don't they?

17:52Interesting. Is that the impression you get? It's certainly striking that the number of players who have changed. I mean, Nike used to be so like the brand. I mean, it was kind of like between Nike and Adidas. And now you've got lots of different players. I get like this. Inevitably, you're probably not going to eat because even for like, you know, if you're the biggest tennis player, but you're with Nike. You are, if you care, probably conscious of the fact that they've got bigger athletes than you on their roster. And it might not be like their biggest priority. So I don't know. Like, it's definitely I don't know how bothered they would be a brand that big because they do have all these like absolute superstars.

18:37But certainly in tennis, it does feel like a trend. Yeah, I think they want to narrow it down. They've got the two in the men's game. they've got the two biggest ones in Alcraz and Sinner. And I think that they'd rather have a couple of absolute household names.

18:52Matt Roberts: Their strategy always used to be making sure they signed up any kind of potentially prodigious talent. Sign them up young, get them, and then drop them if need be if they don't make it good. But that always used to be their strategy. But it does feel like just give us the big ones and we'll, yeah, that's kind of all we're interested in. But it does feel like kind of slightly nicher brands are having a bit of a moment. You know, Coco Goss with New Balance, like, okay, that's not niche, but it's not Nike. Yeah, and I mean, like, and I think the sort of fashion-y crossover, like Taylor Fritz is with Hugo Boss.

19:32You know, that sort of thing is quite unusual. Tiafos with Lululemon, like, you know, those lines are being blurred a bit between kind of like the fashion culture, tennis space, which is why I think it is quite an interesting subject just because where tennis and culture intersects, certainly for our readers, is often kind of quite grabby.

19:53Matt Roberts: Yeah, Lululemon is the one I would pick. I think it's so clearly better quality than all the others. If you could choose. If I could choose. The fabric is sweat wicking, folks. Why do more brands not seem to realise the importance of that? But I am interested because a couple of the players, I mean, Coco Goff was talking about it yesterday and how, and Francis as well, they feel it does make a really big difference. Less from the like, you know, I mean, less the kind of like press release stuff you get about how, you know, the wicking does X, Y, Z, more just from a like, I want to look really cool on court.

20:27That makes a big difference to like how much, because tennis is so much about this kind of me versus you, 1v1. But if I can feel like the guy as I go on court, But Tiafoe was certainly suggesting that does make a difference.

20:41Matt Roberts: Are you ready to talk about an On player, Charlie, or too much trauma? Yeah, sure. Let's talk about Igor Shantik. That was a reference to Charlie's exchange with Ben Shelton in press yesterday. Yeah, he didn't like the suggestion that On wasn't as big a company as Nike and Adidas. Don't like that question. Yeah, I would suggest that's incontrovertible. Did you read anything into his chippiness? Like in terms of where his headspace is at? Or did you think it was just kind of a touch of arrogance? Yeah, I don't know. It's always hard to say. Like you never know what's going to... Well, I mean, obviously you have some sense, but I guess you wouldn't do...

21:20You know, sometimes you ask questions and you're slightly bracing yourself because you know it's a delicate topic. Others can kind of take you by surprise. That definitely took me by surprise.

21:29Matt Roberts: Yeah, lobbing up a would you like to talk about one of your sponsors question is usually really safe territory in the press conference room. Yeah, and I think it's like sometimes as well the way you, I learned this with Antipo Stokoglu because he's a great one for one wrong word and he's on you and you do learn like sometimes you can say one thing and that takes, a player thinks you're asking maybe a different question to what you're asking so you do have to be mindful of that. I don't know, like there's obviously there is a lot of pressure on him. He comes in here as a high seed really for the first time.

22:04But, you know, he's always been previously he's been in that bracket of like on his day he could, you know, he's got this really high ceiling, but he's not necessarily thought of as one of the tournament favorites. I think this year for the first time he maybe is, you know, outside of those two who are so far ahead. But other than that, I don't think there's anyone massively ahead of him. The locals, the Americans are expecting him to deliver.

22:30Matt Roberts: And he's a guy that needs to be loose. Yeah. I think. And think how many commitments he's going to have had. I mean, like, you know, there is a lot asked of these players in this week, especially, you know, at the US Open, there are so many sponsors. Like, it's so much razzle-dazzle. Goff said, I couldn't play the mixed doubles because of the volume of sponsor commitments I have here. Exactly. So I think, like, I'm sure he, you know, everyone's wanting a piece of him. And, yeah, you know, that's a lot for a player. So, yeah, I guess we'll see in his early rounds. Because they often talk about it, don't they, players that it's those early rounds that can be quite stressful as well because that's quite terrifying the idea of an early exit when you know everyone's kind of just assuming you'll get to like when Andy Roddick went out to Gilles Muller in 2005 and he came in off the back of this massive ad campaign with American Express which was all built around whether Andy whether anybody could find Andy's mojo because he'd lost it on a plane as though it was a physical thing and And he'd wake up.

23:36And it was trying to poke fun at the fact that he's about to go roaring through the US Open, draw and face Roger Federer and beat him in the final. I mean, he was world number one at the time. Lost first round in straight sets to Gilles Muller. Three tie breaks. Wow. Fresh from a Wimbledon final, wasn't he, that year? Yeah, that's right. They kept running that bad for a couple of days. Then they pulled it.

23:58Matt Roberts: Iga Shontek fellow on on sponsoree the difference in her we've all been in a lot of Iga Shontek press conferences this year she's a different person it is I was expecting her to be relaxed we've seen it we saw it in the mixed doubles she loved that she very clearly loved that she's won Wimbledon it's all going great there's no reason not to be that way and yet it is still, I think, incredibly striking how loose her demeanour is. Yeah, especially because players, including her, they talk so much about the process, etc. But then you see, seemingly, she's been transformed by the results and the outcomes.

24:42And I don't know how I feel. That's kind of how it should. Winning Wimbledon should be this amazing lift. But I don't know, it's also just kind of scary in a way because clearly, and why wouldn't it be, as much as players talk about the process and I'm not going to be defined by my results, they are. And we're seeing a really visible, you know, and I know she's talked obliquely about kind of other, and she kind of referenced that today. She said, she worded it slightly oddly, but she said like she started the year well and then there were other perspectives or something.

25:14Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, she said the season got a bit more complicated from other perspectives.

25:18Matt Roberts: I think she meant kind of outside of the court. Exactly, yeah. And, you know, so maybe it's those things have all kind of resolved and what have you. But, you know, the main thing seems to be she won Wimbledon and she looks like she's floating. She also sounds as though she's seen the results of her hard work. The question Matt asked her about training for faster court surfaces really got an effusive answer from her, I thought. She seemed almost pleased to have been asked about that because, and I think that that is something that happens sometimes. it's oh finally I've all this work I've been putting in with Wimferset and now I can see

25:55Catherine Whitaker: what it was all for yeah it's it just struck me because if you'd said that after a long title drought Iga Shontek would end it by winning Wimbledon and then go on to win Cincinnati that that would have felt like an alternative timeline you know a year ago or so considering her real success came on clay or came on you know some of the slower hard courts like Indian Wells for example I know it's quick through the air there but it's a slow court high bouncing court that's where she's had so much of her sort of dominance and it was just notable to me that that these winds have come on quicker lower bouncing surfaces and she referenced back to the start of the year the offseason in Australia where think about it at the time we were a few seven our players and how well he goes from tech was playing easy to forget that she was thrashing players she was brilliant and she played okay she had a she had some bad moments against madison keys but generally she played a really good match against the eventual champion and she had a match point i mean she had a match point she could well she could ease well not easily but she could have won the australian open this year it wouldn't have been sort of preposterous to you know for that to happen considering how well she was playing and yet you know it does really seem like she was happy with all the work that she'd done there She implemented it in Australia.

27:19Catherine Whitaker: And then things just went, well, as she said, things got complicated from other perspectives. Things went really wrong through that portion of the season that is traditionally her stranglehold on the season. The Middle East swing, the clay court swing. But it feels like at Wimbledon and at Cincinnati, she's been able to implement those things that she worked on in the offseason again. And she's thrilled about it. and yeah absolutely as you said it was a really uplifting actually to see Shviontech like that you know in her first answer she said positive excited happy you know like and and so often eager Shviontech press conferences have got off on a on a note where you think oh okay this she's not feeling that well here and you sort of tread a little bit carefully this was just open and just a really really nice relaxed vibe to it I do think I'm a big part of it like she I think by her own admission is someone and I know people close to her have spoken about that she's not someone who will just easily let people in and I do think it will have taken Wim Forsett quite a lot of time to kind of earn that trust and she even mentioned it you know even now that she you know she kind of needs proof of concept when he asks her to do stuff so I do think like over time it feels like she's kind of trusting him a bit more and the dams burst a little bit and now it's like okay we're on to something here and that there's this kind of positive feedback loop she's now getting with results and I think that's made a really big difference whereas early on it is I think there probably was an element of like is is this working is this is this the right thing necessarily and good for her for sticking with it yeah exactly because you know after the French Open it felt like how long is this going to last and just on the French Open there yeah you mentioned about her opening line and just thinking back to ronald garrison her first press conference and that was when matt futterman asked her like oh do you get a lift from being here and she gave that really snippy answer like well do you like and i said well i'm not a four-time champion but like that was where she was at that time you know it was really you know like it felt like anything you said and i and i remember when i did my voice note of you guys from madrid and mentioned you know talked through one of those press conferences and it was really uncomfortable.

29:33Like, the contrast in a few months is incredible.

29:37Matt Roberts: We said Naomi Osaka in today. David, did you feel like you were in the press conference of the future champion? Yeah. Told you. What made you... I ain't back in that now. What reassured you? Well, honestly, I... what went on in the press conference had no bearing on it at all. I don't understand why people are so outraged and up in arms about the fact that somebody might think that a twice champion of the past, only in the last few years, who's won four Grand Slams on a hard court, might win this tournament.

30:19Catherine Whitaker: Who reached the final of her previous event. Yes. Compared to some of your predictions, it's actually quite measured. I tell you. I mean, I just, listen, I think with her, it's so on a knife edge because her best self can win this tournament, can beat everybody. You could literally line them all up and her best self could beat them all. Or she could lose in the second round to Hayley Baptiste. You know, those are perfectly foreseeable possibilities in my eyes. But, well, I just think she will have her moment. And so I've gone for it this time. But, you know, I did find it interesting. I asked the first question to the press conference relating back to what happened in Canada and asked how she'd sort of processed it in the days that followed.

31:13And I don't think she can, maybe I didn't phrase it that well. she immediately went to the speech and the kind of outcry about that. Actually, when I came out of the room, Catherine, you mentioned to me, it would have almost been more interesting for her to assess what happened on the court before the speech, i.e. where her form went and why she seemed so rattled on the court when the crowd were going. And I must say, I didn't push that in that direction, and I kind of wish I had because I'm more curious.

31:47Matt Roberts: It was a difficult scenario, I think, for you to do that. That's also an example, though, of, what I was saying before, you ask a question, they interpret it a certain way, and if you don't get a follow-up, it's quite hard then to reel them back. I am finding it frustrating, though, because I think they talk about the speech and the aftermath of everything that happened with the speech, sort of issuing the public apology. and she told us today that she spoke to Mboko privately as well. And I find that, it's not that I don't find that interesting, but in terms of Naomi Osaka and this tournament and how she might possibly fare, I find it a real red herring, actually.

32:30Matt Roberts: It's not totally irrelevant, but the speech was a symptom of something else that was happening. I want to know why she fell apart so drastically in the match, why the crowd got to her so much when she's been in that sort of situation before, how it could go from kind of 100 to nought in the space of about a game and a half. That's what I really want to hear about. And I wonder if maybe sort of life imitating art, whether the hoo-ha around the speech has actually occupied the same bandwidth in her mind and prevented her from addressing the reasons behind what happened on the court. Like, I just feel really frustrated by it all.

33:17I think that's what I was trying to get at in the question is, how have you processed the aftermath? And that's where her mind went, really, I think. Maybe it's because she was trying to interpret exactly what the question was. But, yeah, I suspect that...

33:30Matt Roberts: And by aftermath, she interpreted that as what people had said about her. Yes. She said, I haven't seen anything people have written. and I've been made aware that people have said, people have had, people had a lot to say about it. Obviously, you know, agents and so on would have said, look, Naomi, this is, this hasn't gone down well. I think you should think about saying something publicly. She was very worried, wasn't she, about Victoria? Yes, absolutely. And she talked about, you know, the shame she experienced over it and worrying about potential impact it had had on her. Well, because also she knows what that's like.

34:03I mean, she was on the other side of it. So I'm sure she would have felt acutely guilty of being seen to be like stealing. Absolutely.

34:10Matt Roberts: But it is interesting that that is where her mind kept on going. And I wonder if that is proving an unhelpful decoy for everybody to what the real problem is. It's a much harder thing to face up, you know, that the speech thing you can just write off like that. That's got a very sort of clear solution. You know, it's like, well, next time don't do that. whereas all the stuff that came before it is a lot more complicated and probably is a lot harder to untangle. I suppose for her the hope is that, well, that was the first really big match she'd played in a long, long time. So maybe she can tell herself, well, next time it won't feel so alien, it won't feel so unfamiliar, and you'll be able to handle the moment better.

34:55Matt Roberts: But what if she plays Coco Gough here and the crowd are against her in a New York way? you know that's but then yeah i mean i guess the hope is that you can apply some of unless it has the negative effect but you'd hope it's like a well you know remember last time and surely they would have talked about well if this does happen again how are we going to approach it i'd hope so i'd hope so unless as you said they are just focusing on the on the speech but she she is really interesting asaka because she she's never if she's got to a quarterfinal of a grand slam she's won it so and and in her comeback she hasn't got to a fourth round i'm really fascinated just to see what happens because i think our sense slightly is like if she can sort of get to that second week which she hasn't been able to do in her comeback then does that sort of single-mindedness kick in you know she's such a she's been an amazing converter to have won four slams from only getting to four grand slam courts finals is an unbelievable record she had a lot of interesting stuff to say about Thomas Witkorowski today, didn't she?

36:02Matt Roberts: In both English and well, in the Japanese portion, but she gives the answers in English, so we were able to listen in.

36:10Catherine Whitaker: It was really interesting. In the English portion she described him as someone who cuts to the chase, which thinking about who her previous coach was, you know, I don't know how Patrick Morotoglu coach is, but he's a guy who's got a lot to say, you know, like generally. I can imagine like it's just a different form of giving the message, I think. She also described him as an encyclopedia of tennis, but it was actually the answers in the Japanese portion of the press conference which were really deeper on Thomas Witkarowski. She said that she wanted someone with a lot of knowledge. She doesn't like questioning if someone knows what they're talking about.

36:59Catherine Whitaker: And I thought that was interesting when you look back at her history of coaches. It does strike me that she's someone who goes after kind of super coaches, you know, people who've had a lot of success. It's almost like she's not thinking about what can they do for my game, but like what have they done for someone else's game.

37:19Matt Roberts: And that checks out with how she would talk about Patrick Moratoglu and constantly reference the fact that he coached Serena.

37:26Catherine Whitaker: Right, and if you go back earlier in her career when she had Sasha Buy in, he had been in Serena's camp as well, went for set, had obviously had a lot of success before working with Osaka, whereas I just felt that that's a big contrast with some other players who I know go on kind of really painstaking processes of figuring out the right coach based on chemistry and really based on what you can do for me. I think it was an interesting sort of insight that Osaka gave there in terms of how she likes to pick her coaches. And then she's had a little bit more detail in terms of some of the stuff that they've been doing.

38:00Catherine Whitaker: She talks a lot about how it's not technical stuff at this point in the season because tournaments are happening. And he doesn't think that now is the right time to work on technical stuff. So she talks about how it's a lot of tactical stuff, court awareness, picking the right shot at the right time. She explained how he draws little sketches of tennis courts and puts little markers of where she should be hitting her shots. And I think, again, that was something that we did see a little bit of in Canada. We talked about how her movement was a lot better, but also I think her shot selection was better.

38:40Catherine Whitaker: She wasn't always pulling the trigger. She was building points a little bit better. So I think there have been some, she described it as simple fixes to her game in a short amount of time. And she said it's kind of been mind-blowing to her how simple some of those fixes have been and how effective they've been. So I thought from that point of view, it was a really positive assessment of Witkarowski. And I'm really big on that as a reason why we should be feeling good about Osaka here. I think there is something different about her coming into this tournament. I'm just not going all the way because like you I don't feel like we've had the had the full breakdown of what happened in that Montreal in that Montreal final and that to me is is still such a big thing blocking me from predicting her to to actually win the tournament here but there are some positive signs even if at times the press conference had a bit of a bit of a sombre mood to it because she was talking so much about the speech and the shame that she felt and how bad she felt it it wasn't a really upbeat fun Naomi Osaka press conference which they can be so it's been a while though it has it has um you know there were little jokes in there wasn't there she was she was lovely talking about Gail Monfils yes that was really nice and and how how much she appreciated playing with him because she remembered queuing up to watch him play in Miami when she was a kid.

40:10Matt Roberts: I bet that answer made Gail feel old. Except when I was 10.

40:15Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. More feast than songer she would go watch in Miami. Yeah, it was a lovely answer.

40:20Matt Roberts: Really lovely. So that was kind of the main runners and riders that came through the main press conference room today. We also did a few one-on-ones for tennis podcast meets.

40:32Catherine Whitaker: You haven't mentioned the runner and rider.

40:36Matt Roberts: Who have I failed to mention? Taylor Fritz?

40:38Catherine Whitaker: Amanda Nisamova.

40:41Matt Roberts: My apologies, Matt. What did we learn?

40:45Catherine Whitaker: Not that much. No, well, we actually had a chat about what to ask her, and you said, I'd love to know whether she would like to play Igor Svantec again. So I asked her, you know, how keen is she to play Igor Svantec again? and have a new experience after the Wimbledon final. I had to slightly tread carefully because you don't want to give away a player's draw if they don't want to know it. And obviously, Shontek is in Anissimova's quarter. But I thought she'd referenced the Wimbledon final enough that it felt like a question I could ask. And she said yes, she does want to play her again. That is something that I think she's keen.

41:25Catherine Whitaker: She said, I want to play her when I'm myself. which I thought was quite a good line, quite a telling line. She knows she can trouble top players. She literally beat the world number one before facing Egos Fiontech. And yes, match-ups are a thing, but it's not that much of a match-up problem that it was six love, six love. She was not herself in that Wimbledon final, and she's done a lot, I think, to try and get over it and learn from it. She said the big thing is nerves. you know whereas I think in her post-Winwood and final press conference she was kind of keen to downplay nerves she talked a lot about how tired she was here she really mentioned nerves and stress and she said that that final you know hopefully is going to prove to be a lesson in terms of how to deal with those nerves and that stress and playing Ygos Viontech would be another way to help try and get over it so you know I've probably done a disservice there to a press conference I think we maybe did learn yeah that sounds really interesting it was an interesting press conference she was relaxed she was loose it wasn't very well attended um so i think she was kind of able to open up to the you know to the questions that she was asked so it was a busy time of day wasn't it the

42:42Matt Roberts: area was it was all happening was was teeming david was in there with felix i was in there with avelisse i was there with sit to pass it was funny actually i saw on the interview list there There was The Athletic with Sitza Pass, tennis podcast with Felix Ogiali, and I was like, okay, we've both gone down the same route. These are two players occupying a very similar space. Huge in 2018, 2019. Now, not so much. I mean, for me, they are forever tethered, actually, because the first tournament I covered on site for Amazon Tennis was Indian Wells 2018, and they both had a bit of a breakout tournament there and everybody got totally giddy on it and started making predictions about how many Grand Slam finals they would inevitably end up playing against one another and it was just sort of sign and seal that that would be happening and now here they are, you know, what room, I'm doing inverted commas, which doesn't work on a podcast, but, you know, Sitsapaz wasn't even in the biggest bit of the area today, was he?

43:50I think one of the elements of the media days I do find interesting is it's a really brutal way of showing where a player's at. You know, you go from, are you in the big interview room? Obviously, that's kind of where everyone wants to be. And then it sort of goes, I mean, tennis is so hierarchical in every way. And then before you know it, you're in interview room six doing a one-on-one and that's it.

44:16Catherine Whitaker: And Paul Garuna has to draw you a map of how to get there. Yeah, I mean, that was Sitsabas today. I had a one-on-one with him. He didn't do a press conference because there wasn't enough interest. I mean, you know, this is a guy who would have previously been, you know, one of the bigger players and Medvedev didn't do any media because presumably he wasn't requested. I mean, how crazy is that? We're talking about a former champion and a former world number one. Like how quickly you slide into, in inverted commas, irrelevance in, you know, the eyes of the kind of wider tennis community. And it must be, you know, I'm sure a lot of them are like, oh, great, I don't have media commitments.

44:53But for a lot of them, it must be quite a blow to their self-esteem, being like, you know, so what are my media commitments to say? Yeah, none. No one's requested you or, like, no one wants to talk to you.

45:05Matt Roberts: Did you ask Sitsapaths about your locale? How bummed out are you about talking to me? Is this the low point of your career? The thing is, my sense is whenever I've escorted players in that situation or when I've seen them escorted, their reaction is usually, oh, well, this will be quick then and I can just go about my day. But do you think they believe that? I think in the moment they do believe that, but I think if somebody pointed it out to them, are you aware that this means nobody thinks you're up too much anymore? I think somebody, like, sits a pass. I think he's noticing and tracking that stuff.

45:47Matt Roberts: I think it depends if it feels like a one-off. Exactly. I think that would be great if you're used to having to do tons of media commitments. And then you're like, oh, wow, I've dodged a bit of a bullet here. If it's a trend that closely reflects your on-court trend, then I think you're noticing it. And we've seen it with players just in the scenario where they are brought into the big interview room. And for whatever reason, nobody shows up. I mean some players handle that well but some of them you can tell it's hurting their ego and you've got the moderator off to the side sort of desperately fluffing them and saying oh it's because the announcement wasn't made or you've clashed with Carlos Alcaraz or whatever these are egos that notice things I think.

46:32That's why I liked Ludmilla Samsonova at Wimbledon when she just said I'm fine I don't get to find out who I'm playing next on Twitter because nobody's interested in commenting to me about anything.

46:45Matt Roberts: And Marketa von Droshevin not being upset that we were all she had at Wimbledon.

46:50Catherine Whitaker: Oh, and even more than that, she was delighted to be in interview room

46:56Matt Roberts: six, two

46:57Catherine Whitaker: years on from winning the title rather than main interview room as the defending champion. Like, that genuinely suited her personality I think. But then I feel like someone like Krychikov has maybe bristled a little bit at the fact that even as a Wimbledon champion, you know, there's still not a huge amount of interest.

47:17Matt Roberts: Will Sitsipas ever get back in the main room, Charlie? That's a good question. I mean, I kind of have to believe that a lot of it depends on the injury, I guess, which he's talked about, this back problem that, you know, he's been carrying for a couple of years. Like, he is, like, the talent hasn't just gone. So I do think he will get back, you know, somewhere like top 20, maybe even pushing the top 10, but it is hard to see it. But that's kind of the nature of tennis, I guess, when you have these dips, but then things do change incredibly quickly. I mean, how many times have we seen that this year, that you have one good week, and, I mean, then you're suddenly thrust forward, you know, complete your space and the kind of food chain completely changes.

48:08so I wouldn't rule out him having... I mean, even this year he has had the odd very good week. Goran said he should be top ten, no trouble. Zverev said it yesterday about both Tsitsipas and Medvedev that they should get back in the top ten. I mean, yeah, it's... I think he will. He'll have another hot streak.

48:30Matt Roberts: OK, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two with some punchy predictions. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline, it's a commitment to your clients. It means top-grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time, and their scale gives them a serious edge.

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51:21Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of the Tennis Podcast, where I'd like to get some punchy predictions from you all. David? Haven't I done my bit? I gave you a title yesterday. Yeah, we've got the champions and the runners-up, I think, from David and Matt from yesterday's show, unless you have the right to change your mind on the basis of... No. ...anything that was said today... No, a fuse. ...in the press conference room. No, you're going Shontek, you're going Sinner, Matt.

51:46Catherine Whitaker: Correct.

51:47Matt Roberts: Sinner to beat Alcaraz in the final, bold, and Shontek to beat Savalenka in the final, also bold. David, just to balance that out, is going for Asaka to beat who in the final? Who did I go? Was it Rebacchner in the end? Asaka, Rebacchner, and you've got Alcaraz beating Sinner. Correct, yeah. Charlie, over to you. Look how serious he takes it. He's not going to go out on a limb like that.

52:17Catherine Whitaker: Normally, Charlie likes to palm his predictions off to his mum.

52:20Matt Roberts: Yeah, this is a man that used his mum as a human shield in order to not make predictions.

52:24Catherine Whitaker: That was for the wider predictions. I'm more than happy to make To be fair, Charlie has made some excellent predictions on this podcast

52:30Matt Roberts: Absolutely, that's why we want them Yeah, I was very throughout Wimbledon, I was very clear and before that Alcraz wouldn't win it This time I don't have such a strong sense on that and given I don't have a really strong sense of it, I think I've got to go for a Sinner-Alcraz final but I wouldn't be surprised if Djokovic got there as the kind of third man I think he's kind of ready to pick up the pieces if someone takes out Alcaraz I don't know if it'll necessarily be Djokovic but I think yeah I'll go Sinner Alcaraz and then on the women's the thing with women's Grand Sams is they are often illogical so trying to apply logic is hard and that's why it's better to do what I did but that's why I'm going to go Sabalenka to win it because like she should have won one already this year and she hasn't and so I kind of feel like now when she's coming in and there are more doubts about her than there have been at any of the previous three Grand Slams and going further back than that but really I think you know everyone is suddenly like wow she could well end the year without a Grand Slam title which you know has that's never been a thought I think anyone really entertained and it's gradually become got to the point where it almost feels likely so I'm going to go her to win it the runner-up is so hard I'm going to go Madison Keyes yeah I'm glad Keyes got a mention she's lurking I'm not she's not my prediction but she's just nagging nagging at my a little bit like last with Pagula getting it I don't know I just feel like that could yeah and that would be I mean it would be a great story to repeat the Australian Open final nice ring composition to the year I think I'm going Shvantec I mean she's just in such a good place logically it should be but just for her to win two Sams in a row I don't know that feels like very rare on the one side she's not done that yet before has she I'm certainly not taking her against the field when did any yes she won no she can't have done because the only other she won the French in the US in the US she can't have done it consecutively I mean when when was the last time anyone Osaka it would be wouldn't it US in Australia what 2020 and then 2021 Osaka you say yeah so that we're talking more than four years ago.

54:51It's very rare.

54:52Matt Roberts: I think I might go for Rabakina to take out Sabalenka. I think I might go for a Shiontek Rabakina final. And I'm going to be bold and go Alcaraz Sinner. And who's winning? I think I'm going Alcaraz. I think Sinner will win. I just can't bet against Sinner on a hard call. Like until... I always go for Alcaraz, don't I? just whereas i think increasingly sinner to me feels like the kind of default pick yeah i i think you're right actually i think i probably need to revise my policy yeah just feel just like and i know we do over index that bertich loss but i just feel like he is the more likely to be upset in a way that sinner it's really hard to see don't you think the the point i made a few days ago when, and I know Sinner was really ill and had to pull out, but there was something about Alcaraz that wanted to prove a point I thought, that week.

55:55And I think that that stands now. And I don't think that's nothing. I think, you know how we talk about he's going to have to go out against Radio Pelka, super focused. I kind of feel like the whole tournament is that now because it's not gone all his own way. He's lost to Wimbledon final and I think that that will focus him. No, I think that's a really good point and even like the Sinner final in Cincinnati, like of course Sinner was really compromised but there are plenty of opponents who Alcaraz could have played who was compromised and he would have started, I mean even Zverev

56:28Matt Roberts: the day before and he would have started two days before he would have started doing He would have missed seven serves in a row. Exactly. But the fact that it was Sinner meant he was locked in enough that he wasn't going to start doing silly stuff. So, no, I do think that's the point. I mean that's when if you can find a way to kind of get him fully focused then yeah that's kind of that would make him almost unbeatable that's his biggest weakness so that yeah that will be interesting that he's got an element of revenge uh who will be the first top 10 seed to fall in the men's and the women's who is holger runa top 10 seed no 11 oh because he's got bertick although Bertic's in form so that's a problem

57:11Catherine Whitaker: I think Emma Navarro is vulnerable on the women's side she's really struggled for form she went to play this week didn't she rather than play the mixed doubles she went to try and get some matches and some form and that didn't go too well I think she's got Yafan Wong in the first round but Katie McNally is lurking potentially for her in the second round I've been quite quietly impressed with McNally since her comeback. She played great against Fiontech at Wimbledon, for example. She was the only one to get a set off Fiontech at Wimbledon. So I think Navarro is a definite contender.

57:52Matt Roberts: David?

57:56It's between Mazzetti and Draper. Mazzetti's a good pick, isn't he?

58:03Matt Roberts: because if we were doing an old-school Wimbledon thing and adjusting the seedings for the surface, he probably wouldn't be seeded on a hard court, would he? I'm going to go Draper because I really do think he is short physically. I mean, Mazzetti jumps off the page to me. The fact even he's got Teshi Pericard in the first round, I wouldn't be amazed if he lost that. I know Teshi Pericard's not in good form, But, I mean, Hatchinov is the number nine seed. I mean, I know he does come in off the back of that final. I was looking at him. Passive already. Yeah, and we've seen so many times this year that the good run at a lead-in tournament can massively go one of two ways.

58:47And so it wouldn't be a huge surprise. And in the women's, Navarro is good logic behind that.

58:53Matt Roberts: Yeah, Navarro is the one, when you look at the 10, she is the one, I mean, A, she's the lowest rank, but she's also the one in the worst form. I think I probably would. I mean, and this would have seemed... Gough, Tomlianovic, anyone looking at that? Gough, you know. You know, Tomlianovic is, you know, she was the one who finally beat Serena when Serena, in her farewell tournament, and kind of, you know, was able to handle that Ash crowd. I mean, this, I'm not going to say her, but Pagula is in my thoughts in a way, and you guys were talking about this the other day, like she's suddenly in that place of being like I don't really know what I'm going to get from her which for a player whose stock in trade for a while was guaranteed quarter final even if she didn't go beyond it but she was missed consistency as Anzabar alluded to in the kind of the note that she wrote during the French Open talking about the women's tour that's kind of been her stock in trade that's gone but I think Navarro and Mazzetti for me would be The obvious ones.

59:56Matt Roberts: David? You're down on Mirand Draver and she's got Alicia Parks. Yeah, I was about to joke about Jasmine Paolini, but I won't do that. I've saved you. Yeah, I do think Andraver's gone from being the player I was the most up on a few months ago to really feeling unsure about. Only in this pocket of the season, I don't have any long-term concerns at all. She's been injured, hasn't she? And she's taken a couple of tough losses. I wonder whether she's a little bit burnt out. You know, we forget how many greats, all-time greats, would get to this portion of the season. Jim Currier would always flame out at the US Open.

1:00:41He had one good run to the final. But every other year, when he was dominating the tennis circuit, he would get to this tournament, he would just look like he'd got so little left. and yet he would seem to be the perfectly configured player for this environment and surface and so forth. It's a long season and she's had a lot of wins in the springtime and she just looks like she could do with a long holiday to me and start up again in January. I mean, that's what, and I'm looking into this for a piece, but what I think is so interesting, even on the men's side, because a lot's been made of the fact that on the women's side there have been lots of different winners, but that's also true of Wimbledon.

1:01:20Whereas on the men's side, the US Open is a massive outlier in that no one has dominated this event in the last, coming up to 20 years. I mean, Federer was the last man to retain it. That was 2008. That feels crazy. And there have been so many different winners here compared to all the other slams. You think of all those one-time winners, Cilic, Thiem, Medvedev, Del Potro. and so what I think is interesting is you've got the ultimate like chaotic slam meeting Yannick Sinner who is like apart from you know some of the off-court stuff but on court he is so unchaotic and I and like can he be the guy to like tame this major in a way can he finally be somebody who can come along and defend it because you wouldn't have thought kind of chaos and Sinner would go together but maybe he could just block all of that stuff out and just focus surprise

1:02:12Matt Roberts: package you can have you can either pick a man and a woman or you can just pick one a name that's jumping out to me in the men's draw given what we've just talked about in terms of top seeds who

1:02:30Catherine Whitaker: we think are vulnerable we've said mozzetti we've said draper so i'm thinking who in that section might be able to take advantage of it. And look, it's not an absolutely wild name. Certainly tennis podcast listeners will be very familiar with the name. But your average tennis fan is not going to know too much about him. And that's Diallo. I actually think he's in a section of the draw there where he... It wouldn't shock me if he is Sinner's quarterfinal opponent. You know, Mazzetti, Bublik, Draper, Caballi, all in that section but I think maybe Diallo might come through I think he's got a game which is just beginning to hurt some top players and just beginning to flourish a little bit so there we go 31st seed Diallo

1:03:20Matt Roberts: I think that's strong I'll accept a low seed as a dark horse or surprise package however you want to put it David Well, I put Mboka in the semifinals, and yet I don't feel as though that's anything left field anymore. I will not accept that as a surprise. She was in the main room today, David. It has to be somebody that would be in the area. I thought I did see Diallo in the area, so he's safe. So that counts. I think he's been more of a building process than out of left field. But I do think Caballi could have a heck of a run. You're a big Caballi guy. I do think his top level is seriously scary.

1:04:13And, I mean, in a section of the draw where he's in with Mazzetti, I love watching Mazzetti. I love how that's where everyone targets. Where's Mazzetti? That's been a surprise. He's such a beautiful player to watch, and he was wonderful at the mixed doubles the other day. Reminders in there, but they're due to meet in the third round on paper, and I'd go into that probably thinking Caballi wins, and then he's in the Diallo and Draper section there. He could end up playing against Yannick Sinner, could Caballi in the quarterfinals, and I really wouldn't be surprised if that's what we see.

1:04:51Matt Roberts: I like it. Charlie. It's difficult, this. I mean, I want to... I wonder if there are so many Americans in both draws, and I just wonder if someone could kind of catch a little bit of momentum, become a bit of a thing amongst the fans. Looking at someone like Ethan Quinn, I mean, he's got a first-round match that he could well win. Then he would play Nakashima. I think Nakashima's a good player he's a consistent player but I think that's one he could come through he would then have to play Taylor Fritz in the third round which would obviously be very hard but even that I mean getting to the third round for someone like that

1:05:34Catherine Whitaker: if I'm going on Charlie's American theme just looking at the women's draw potentially like a McCartney Kessler yeah Meredith go on Meredith but if I do that I'm underestimating Jasmine Paolini because they're due to me in the third round. And we don't do that.

1:05:52Matt Roberts: Well, we all know Brad Gilbert is picking Aisling Kruger. It's his dark horse. I've seen on ESPN the other day. Pam asked him for a dark horse and Aisling Kruger came out and Pam didn't know what to say. I mean, could Paolini be one of those players who we assume will do well? Don't do it, Charlie. Don't do it. No, I just mean from this theme this year, or certainly at Wimbledon it was a theme of have a good lead in events, have a bad Wimbledon. I don't know, just because I thought when we were naming the top 10, when we were going through the top 10, I didn't even consider Paolini really because in my mind I was like, oh, she's kind of immune.

1:06:27She's just had a really good run in Cincinnati. I don't know, maybe that could go the other way. Eva Jovic, I mean, that would be an exciting second round match.

1:06:35Matt Roberts: Yeah, it would. She's got talent. She packs a punch, yeah. Story, this one's mostly for you, Charlie. Like, the story you'd most like to happen, a story you'd like to write this fortnight. Well, I mean, just player-wise, He's just building on something David said there. I mean, Mboko going all the way would be pretty spectacular. And I interviewed her today. And there is something incredibly convincing about her. I mean, because she was talking about, you know, the... I said to her, like, you know, was it kind of weird? You know, you beat all those Grand Slam champions. And, you know, a lot of them, including Osaka, were players that you would have looked up to, did look up to.

1:07:16you know was that did you have to kind of rewire your brain you know we've heard so much about players you've seen it you know freezing against their idols and she was kind of like no not really you know once i'm out there i kind of you know i feel pretty confident whatever and then i was like it like do you fear anyone she was like no basically and i was just like god that fearlessness and you know we saw it with someone like andreescu here sometimes that's when you're at your most dangerous like I know it would be a huge huge shock but for the first time I thought I wouldn't totally rule that out you've got someone who is just brimming with confidence is fearless isn't going to overthink it that's a pretty good concoction to have and you know we always assume and generally it is the case that like experience is really helpful and you build and you build and you build it doesn't always have to be like that remember Tracy Austin saying that actually it was really early on in her career before she kind of had much experience.

1:08:19That was when it was kind of most natural.

1:08:23Matt Roberts: I like it. So that would be an amazing story. I think people would get so engaged. We saw what happened in Canada. Obviously, that's her home tournament, but I think the US Open will go wild for her if she gets on a run. Final question in this section, and this one's just for you, Charlie, because David and Matt already know the answer. how much does a lobster roll cost in the food court?

1:08:49I mean, it's going to be high, the fact you're asking. $35.

1:08:55Matt Roberts: $39.50. Wow. I mean, New York never ceases to amaze the price of stuff. Yeah, and yet that did amaze me. We all, I don't think we're naive about New York prices. we all stopped in our tracks when you saw that.

1:09:12Catherine Whitaker: Did you get one? No.

1:09:14Matt Roberts: Not made of money, Charlie.

1:09:17Catherine Whitaker: It's almost an entire friend subscription.

1:09:22Matt Roberts: Absolutely astonishing. For a year. I kind of want to get one to know like how big they are, how much lobster's in there. That's got to be a damn good lobster roll. Work out the price per gram. Yeah. Yeah. Bring your wallet if you're coming to the US Open. That's it for part two. Join us in part three. We'll go through tomorrow, Sunday's day one. Order of play.

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1:11:13Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast where we have an order of play to go through. In fact, we have three orders of play. We actually know who's going to be on the main court show courts for both for all three of the round one days. But we'll we'll do this day by day. We've got daily pods. We've got plenty of time to go through Monday and Tuesday's order of play. So let's stick with Sunday and opening the Arthrasch Stadium on day one of the tournament is Ben Shelton. Big assignment. Your mate, Ben. And he's playing Ignacio Busa. How are we pronouncing that, Matt?

1:11:49Catherine Whitaker: He's from Peru.

1:11:50Matt Roberts: He's from Peru. He's ranked 136 in the world. And that is the extent of my Busa or Bus knowledge.

1:11:59Catherine Whitaker: I became aware of him this summer. I think he got to a semi-final on tour in one of the, you know, death zones or Borscht deaths. I think it might have been Gestade. I think he might have lost to one Manuel, Sir Rudendolo. But he's been doing a lot of winning on the Challenger tour. I think he's much more comfortable on the clay. And I'm going to use the words good draw for Ben Shelton, I think. but you know like Shelton I think would like a vibes he's slot and first on Ash is not really that he had that last year in his first round as well played Dominic Thiem but you're right God that feels like yeah I know

1:12:46Matt Roberts: I don't know

1:12:47Catherine Whitaker: what that feels like but it's sad

1:12:48Matt Roberts: punchy predictions here please we were going Shelton in three

1:12:52Catherine Whitaker: yes yeah

1:12:53Matt Roberts: I mean I just learned of the existence of Ignacio Boussa so I'm going Shelton in three that is the first match on Ash Day Session second match is Irina Sabalenka against Rebecca Massarova, Sabalenka in two, yes they've played this year haven't they those two I'm sure I have a memory I'm going to check that, but yes I would predict Sabalenka would win that and night session on Ash, we might get some interesting Ponchi predictions here, Novak Djokovic starts against Lerner Thiem And Tian, rather. And I've got Dominic Thiem. Tragedy on the brain. And Jessica Bagula against Maya Sharif is second on.

1:13:37Matt Roberts: Maybe Djokovic loses a set. Yeah. Could see that. David. Yeah, I'd go the same. Four. That could be fun. That's a fun. That should be really fun. Yeah. Like, I want to watch it. Yeah, the rallies are going to be great. I think the crowd would be really into it. there'll be lots of shots that TN hits slice backhands etc that make the card go oh you know because it's just gone hovering over the net within an inch and stayed in but I think that that will only last so long Djokovic in four because he lost a set in both of his two rounds the Australian Open and one was against Basper already and I remember that he lost the first set actually there.

1:14:22I can imagine it being a similar type match to that. Like, lose the set but never really in much danger. I think if Bats of Reddy

1:14:29Matt Roberts: and Tien is a real sort of duo, I'll be following them both closely. And Sharif against Pagula? I do think Pagula will win, but, yeah, I wouldn't consider it such a foregone conclusion like I might have done previously. Yeah. She's got a lot of points. I mean, a lot of pressure on her final points to defend. It's been such a different year for Pagula. She doesn't feel reliable in the way she used to.

1:14:54Catherine Whitaker: And she said in her press conference, which was yesterday, she was one of the first top players in, just, like, it did feel a bit weird having the mixed doubles so early. Like, she's already played in front of a big night-ash crowd.

1:15:11Matt Roberts: And I think she had a slightly weird time with Jack Draper, didn't she?

1:15:14Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I think that would be fair to say.

1:15:17Matt Roberts: I don't think they're, you know, going out for dinner, are they? but yeah it much like she nodded that she's like you you have that kind of like she's had a high yeah you've had the high you've had the adrenaline all of that and then it's like oh then you're back into like cooling your blood pressure your temperature and you're just like warming up again to get high again so that is and none of them have ever done this before armstrong opens with emma radakarnu against ina shibahara what do you think about Raducanu Charlie? I am interested to see how she does here. She comes in with more form and more match time than she has done at a major for a long time.

1:16:00So I think she'll win that one. I think she could play Sabalenka in the third round again. Rabatkinah.

1:16:08Matt Roberts: I think she'll get there. Yeah, I think she will. She's done, I mean that's kind of what she's been doing at the slams this year. And that's, I think, why she brought on Roig. Like, she's talked about it. She's been solid. She's been getting to a certain level, but it's, can she push on beyond that?

1:16:25Catherine Whitaker: Is it potentially Kudamatova in the second round for her? Yeah. It's not easy draw, even to get to Rebecca. I think Shibahara is a player who's obviously more known for her doubles. She's really made a thing last year of trying to become a singles player. I think even the fact that she's in a slam is kind of a, you know, a pretty good sign for her singles. She's going to throw variety at you. She's going to try and come forward. I actually think maybe that's not the worst thing in the world for Raducanu. I remember seeing what she did to, like, Vondrosheva at Wimbledon, for example. I think I worry a bit more about Raducanu, where there's a big power problem, you know, power discrepancy.

1:17:06Catherine Whitaker: I think that's an OK match-up.

1:17:09Matt Roberts: Emilia Nava against Taylor Fritz is second on Armstrong during the day. Fritz will be fine there won't he yeah I would have thought so and Armstrong night session opens with Jasmine Paolini against Destiny Ayava the Australian and second on is Daniil Medvedev losing for a second slam in a row to Benjamin Bonzi he's going to turn the tables Medvedev's going to win this time punchy set prediction please 4 Charlie I mean massively on upset watch to the point where I guess how even big an upset would that be

1:17:46I really struggle with that one. Maybe Medvedev in five?

1:17:53Matt Roberts: We're going to be here. Well, we're going to be somewhere very late watching Daniel Medvedev look dishevelled against Benjamin Bonzi, aren't we? That's my prediction. Grandstand is Jakub Mensik against Nicholas Jarry. Tennis podcast coded matchup first. What a day session, that is. Although Matt has stopped mentioning Nicholas Jarry.

1:18:15Catherine Whitaker: And that clashes with Fulham.

1:18:17Matt Roberts: Yeah. Alexandre Ayala and Clara Towson, second on grandstand. That's a fun match. That's the match of tomorrow, I think, isn't it? Emma Navarro against Yefane Wong. Wong Yefane is third on grandstand. And fourth on is Jesper de Jong against Brandon Nakashima. Court 17, Shevchenko against Davidovich for Kino. then Marino, Rebecca Marino against Leila Fernandes, all Canadian clash here at a Hetchker against Borna Cioric who is apparently staying in the hotel that Matt and David stayed in a few years ago where Matt was checked in as Matt Lobbett

1:18:55Catherine Whitaker: happy memories and I had to check out of that hotel three times and they were confused every time

1:19:02Matt Roberts: and Belinda Bencic is last on court 17 and playing

1:19:09Catherine Whitaker: Zhang Shui, which I think is really interesting. You know, a year ago, we were on longest losing streak watch. She managed to end that just after the US Open. I'm pleased that...

1:19:19Matt Roberts: I think she's qualified here, hasn't she?

1:19:21Catherine Whitaker: And I really thought that her career could be over, you know, this time last year. So it was actually really nice that she's back in the draw here. So, yeah, we're looking forward to that one.

1:19:31Matt Roberts: Thomas Mahatch is on court five tomorrow. He takes on Luka Nardi. God, remember his last match here. That disaster class against Draper. The egg leg.

1:19:42Catherine Whitaker: So bad.

1:19:44Matt Roberts: And his reward for that is to be scheduled on the court that Holgerina posted a map to on his Twitter. Wasn't it court five?

1:19:52Catherine Whitaker: Yes.

1:19:53Matt Roberts: It's actually... It's actually a decent court. It's really close to where we are.

1:19:57Catherine Whitaker: It's a nice court.

1:19:59Matt Roberts: Very easy to get to, Holger. I'll tell you what, he'd be annoyed to be in the area. Yes. Although, I think that's where... He certainly wasn't in the main room. Anyway. I mean, it's quite a busy Sunday day.

1:20:11Catherine Whitaker: It doesn't, I mean, like... Do you think? Well, I think they've gone big on the show courts. Like, they've got really good names, like Shelton, Sabalenka, Djokovic, Pagula, Radhikarnou, Fritz. To have Djokovic on a Sunday feels very unusual. I remember Australia did it. I'm sure Australia did it with Sabalenka and Djokovic. Sabalenka's always on Sunday. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Djokovic-Przmic was a Sunday, because then Sabalenka played after it, and it was really, really late. I think they did like a defending... A defending champions thing. They didn't have a Sunday start at that point. I think that was the first one, wasn't it, in Australia?

1:20:52Catherine Whitaker: Anyway, well, my slight issue with the order of play is that they're not using that many outside courts, and I think it's going to be packed. I think it's going to be hard for players... You're right, it was a Sunday. Hard for fans to see the matches they want to see if they're not spreading it out among all the courts. And that's what Australia got wrong the first time they did a Sunday start. I think they corrected it. Just a little bit worried about that. And also with Ash only having two day session matches, you get that thing where if Ash finishes early, everyone pours out and wants to watch matches on the outside courts.

1:21:35Catherine Whitaker: This is something that I feel like we get a lot of messages about people who come to the US Open and experience that sort of fan experience. We're a little bit shielded from that. But it's important. It is a thing and I'm just a little bit worried about that.

1:21:49Matt Roberts: Yeah, and you do worry that it's not something the organisers are factoring in really at all. Maybe I'm wrong, but... And the proof will be in the pudding tomorrow. What else have we got? We've got Marketa von Drosheva is on court seven. As is Korintan Mute. As is Korintan Mute. That's where David will be. Town Greeks poor against Adrian Manorino. Be interesting to see how it feels. It's kind of crazy. This is the US Open's first Sunday start. Like, yeah, feels like they are the sort of slam that would have been one of the front runners. The idea that last year the Sunday was like a free day. that's just like when does that ever happen and obviously they were like what are we doing there's loads of money to be made we could be making money out of $40 lobster rolls and that is what exactly what they'll be doing tomorrow but not from us we'll be we'll be buying slop in the media centre we'll be very grateful for it we'll of course be back tomorrow with a podcast and each of the next 15 days thank you Charlie for your for playing along with the predictions appreciate it I know it's painful for you.

1:22:57Matt Roberts: No, no. Great to be here. It was those big predictions. I found like the quarter fight, like predicting a quarter final. I know. Is just so hard. Yeah, it's hard. No one said it was easy. As I've hinted at, we've been doing Tennis Podcast Meets interviews over the course of the next couple of days. And that show where we have collectively spoken to Karen Hashinov, Felix Auger, Alias Seem, Arta Rindeknesh, Ava Lees Fran Jones and Karolina Mukova that show will be going up later today for Friends of the Tennis Podcast so if you'd like to become a friend and get the chance to listen to that and it really is worth a listen there's some fascinating insights from those players in there then the link to become a friend will be in our show notes and the last thing I wanted to mention is that we have a live show in Wrexham, Wales we've played New York now we're going to play the New York of Wales

1:23:55Catherine Whitaker: correct

1:23:56Matt Roberts: which is what

1:23:58Catherine Whitaker: everyone calls

1:23:59Matt Roberts: everybody calls Wrexham we'll be there on October the 22nd our live show in New York this week was truly one of the highlights of of our podcasting lives it was incredibly special and we can't wait to do it again in Wrexham and that is exactly what we'll be doing on October 22nd we'll put the link to buy tickets in our show notes and we'll hopefully see you there. Unfortunately, Charlie's got a football cliches live show in Glasgow on the same night. Tis the season for podcast live shows, it would seem. Yeah, absolutely. We're competing for an audience for football cliches. Right. Hello to our mascots.

1:24:44Matt Roberts: Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Maisie. Hello, Roger. Hello to our executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout-outs, Matt.

1:24:51Catherine Whitaker: Are you ready, everyone? Yeah. We have Christine Marlow from St. Helens, Merseyside. Hi, Christine. Like Christine James. Christine Truman, as was.

1:25:05Matt Roberts: Yes. I used to have a... Christine Everett, presumably.

1:25:11Yeah.

1:25:13Catherine Whitaker: Stunned into silence, I'm guessing.

1:25:17Matt Roberts: I used to have a friend in St. Helens. I got totally ghosted by her. never know what I oh gosh it keeps me up at night still this was a long time ago I'm over it but yeah

1:25:29Catherine Whitaker: Laura would anyone like to know more about Aunt Christine?

1:25:32Matt Roberts: yes please you just don't hear about St Helens a lot do you?

1:25:36Catherine Whitaker: it's rugby league yeah hotbed yeah what can I say about Christine? she says in my school days in the 50s Wimbledon was the only tennis shown extensively on the TV. Through my working life, I always said that if I won the pools, the lottery, I'd apply for a Wimbledon debenture. No success. But when I retired, I realised that I could afford to try my luck, and with a friend who I'd met as a co-member of the Tim Henman Fan Club, I crossed my fingers and applied. We couldn't believe it, and we were successful. So she was able to attend the championships every day for the last 15 years.

1:26:17Matt Roberts: Every day? No.

1:26:19Catherine Whitaker: Yes, if you have a debenture, you can go every day. So cool.

1:26:23Matt Roberts: Wow.

1:26:24Catherine Whitaker: Can we hear more about the Tim Hemman fan club? Yeah, absolutely. More slash everything. The rival fan club to Charlie leading the Greg Rosetsky fan club.

1:26:33Matt Roberts: We used to host the annual, well, hang on, we were present at the hosting of the annual Greg Rosetsky fan club meeting at the Royal Albert Hall. Because we worked for the tournament, not because we were that bothered about the fan club bit. Yeah. So, Christine, please let us know everything about the Tim Henman Fan Club. Thank you. We've also got Daniel Tam or Fam.

1:27:00Catherine Whitaker: I'm not sure whether the H is. Daniel Nester. Daniel Evans. Daniel Nester comes out of Charlie Eccleshire's mouth, the Canadian player. That's so in your wheelhouse. He'd have been winning the mixed doubles if he'd have been allowed to enter. Our Daniel is from Sweden And is celebrating his 10 year anniversary Of listening to the podcast He says I remember I started at the US Open in 2015 When Catherine was walking into a tree

1:27:31Matt Roberts: Is that 10 years ago? Probably Or arguing with the bus driver One of the two What a decade Daniel Hope it's been good for you too Thank you

1:27:41Catherine Whitaker: and finally we have Grace Thomas from Mason, Ohio Hi Grace

1:27:48Matt Roberts: Hello Grace

1:27:50Catherine Whitaker: Grace says last year you guys weren't able to think of a tennis player named Grace after a quick Google I found Grace Min she's an American player who turned pro in 2008 and reached a career high of 97

1:28:02Matt Roberts: Thank you very much Grace

1:28:05Catherine Whitaker: I really appreciate it We'll take that

1:28:07Matt Roberts: and Mason, Ohio of course where the Cincinnati tournament actually is

1:28:11Catherine Whitaker: exactly and Grace has been a listener since 2020 I bet Grace has been to Kings Island hope so what a place Jean Grace Min has career high 97 I do not

1:28:27Matt Roberts: Grace thank you very much for your support of the tennis podcast thank you Grace, thank you Christine thank you Daniel of Nesta fame We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Do check out Charlie's work and Matt's work and all of the stuff on the Athletic over the coming fortnight. It's going to be an awesome fortnight. We can't wait. We also can't wait to get out of this wind tunnel, though. So thank you for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow on day one of the 2025 US Open.

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