Washington - Fernandez and De Minaur collect titles as Venus Williams shines again

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1:18Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is Monday, the 28th of July. There has been a lot of tennis in the last seven days. We've got a packed agenda today, lots to get into and I'm joined by Matt Roberts to do just that. How are you doing Matt Roberts? Very well, thank you. Yep, basking in the lioness glow from yesterday and the glow of a fun week's tennis as well. So yes, very well, thank you. Yeah, I'm basking in both those things as well. really enjoyed Washington this week. Really looking forward to talking about it. Not with David Law. He remains in Portugal. At last check, he was off to a water park to find, quote, the biggest slide they have.

2:07So I'll leave everyone with that visual, but reassure you that his boots are being filled by the Athletics' Matt Futterman. Hello, Matt Futterman. How are you doing? When did you last visit a water park? uh it's been a little while thank you very much for having me those are very very large boots to fill um both literally and figuratively of course so a little nervous about it uh there is a water park not far from me on the jersey shore which i used to take my kids to a lot and then it got to a point where like i was the one who really wanted to go to the water park and it was sort of like come on, you guys love the water park.

2:51And they actually were kind of over the water park, but I kept wanting to go. So it was a little awkward. They hung on for a few years. But then like last weekend, my middle daughter, who's now almost 24, was here with her friends. And like, all of a sudden they're like, we're going to the water park. And it like took every ounce of self-control for me to be like, can I come? and I didn't and wasn't invited but they had a grand old time and had they said you want to come I absolutely would have traveled to Thundering Surf with them. I really wasn't expecting such a poignant and pathos laden answer to my to my opening perky question about water parks Matt water parks are near and dear to my heart basically anything involving any any like activity involving water like I'm in except fishing yeah oh well Tommy Paul would disagree with you there uh let's turn our attention to Washington and the ATP and WTA a combined 500 event that finished up yesterday, both finals yesterday, Sunday.

4:11Matt, I should specify which Matt I'm addressing here. Matt Roberts, you and I talked last week about how we were anticipating a good week in Washington, a combined one week long men's and women's event, a 500, so with just enough stakes that things felt like they mattered, but it moved along at a clip. I thought there was some great tennis. It was a great, great speed of court. I always sort of come away from Washington thinking, yes, this is how this is how an American hard court should be. And I feel like the week really didn't disappoint. It lived up to certainly my expectations. I don't know how you felt.

4:50I agree. I think the front end of the week, I spent a lot of time actually watching the second court, because that seemed to be where a lot of the fun doubles was and those crowds were absolutely packed. And we had Venus Williams' comeback, which we'll talk about, which just was such a great story for those first few days. And then I think it felt like maybe on the men's side, it was building momentum with like, felt like maybe Shelton was going to be in the final and that was going to be a real moment for the tournament as well. And then when Shelton lost, I imagine like the locals were maybe a bit disappointed with the men's final that they perhaps ended up with.

5:29But actually, it turned out to be one of the most compelling finals of the year. I think David Vekina de Menor late last night here in the UK watching that. And then great stories in the women's event as well with like some top seeds losing. And it looked like we were going to be on for a 2021 US Open final repeat between Raducanu and Fernandes. We didn't quite get that, But I enjoyed following their stories as well. And yeah, just a just a great event, a kind of everything that you could possibly want from an event packed in into one week. I loved it like you. Should we start with Venus Williams, seeing as you've mentioned that?

6:10And maybe because I'm wanting to put off the heartbreak of talking about Alejandro Davidovic for Kina for a few moments longer. But in many ways, kind of aside from the eventual champions, Venus Williams was the story of this week, right? Just her receiving that wildcard to play in Washington, aged 45, was a huge story in itself. let alone her getting a victory, a straight-sex victory, over Peyton Stearns in the opening round, ended up losing in the next round to Magdalena Frech, a perfectly creditable performance. She also got a win in the doubles alongside Hayley Baptiste. I'm imagining Washington, Matt Futterman, feel like this is the best value wildcard that has ever been awarded in the history of time.

6:59Yeah, and I mean, I should say, like, I've been to Washington a few times, It is like a great event. It's really hot. It's like really swampy. I mean, like D.C. in July is like really not where you want to be. Swampy is not it's not a good word for me, Matt. No, it's it's rough. I mean, but like other than that, that tournament is like tennis as it ought to be. It's in the middle of a public park in the middle of the city. The U.S. Open crowd is pretty darn diverse because it's in New York. the DC crowd is like incredibly diverse. And you could see, like you could, if you were just not looking at the tennis for a second and looking at the crowd, you saw, you could see like how, you know, it was just lots of, there's lots of black people in the crowd and it's just like a very open access.

7:53And that's like the feel of the tournament. So it was like the perfect fit to me to have Venus Williams not only receive a wild card, but also accept a wild card this time. That's sort of the key here, because she had received a wild card to Indian Wells early in the year and was like, oh yeah, I'm actually like in Norway or something like that. Which is confusing, because I thought you could only, I thought a wild card was something you had to request. I didn't realise proactive, like, hey, there's a wild card here if you want one. I didn't realise that happened. but maybe I'm being naive. Like Venus would have had to request one.

8:35She made the first move, surely. Perhaps. I don't know. I don't know that there's an actual etiquette or protocol for these things. I think there's like lots of conversations that go on between tournament directors and players and agents and things like that. Even in one of her post-match, after the first match, like she made a reference to Mark Ein, the owner of the City Open, who like always says to her, like, I'm holding a wild card for you, V. Like, so there's that conversation going on. Like, it's out there if you want it. Like, you know, so is that, has it been offered? Has it been asked for?

9:18Has it been requested? I think it's just kind of like an ongoing conversation between certain players and certain tournament directors and relate, you know, everything in tennis is relationships. So, but yeah, I mean, if there was a place, there was a really fitting place for her to like have a wild card and like try and mount, I don't know if we can really call it a comeback. It's just sort of a continue. It's more of like, it's just a continuation of the career that just sort of like goes on and on. And I had to say, like, I think generally a year and a half ago when she was getting got some wild cards and playing pretty terribly i was kind of i'm pretty much kind of over venus williams getting wild cards and i thought she was like getting in the way of young people but this one like she seemed like she was playing really well and she was ready for it and i thought it was like brilliant that she warmed up with the doubles and kind of like got herself rolled into a groove got the tournament into a groove got matt futterman into a groove watching her play with Hailey Baptiste.

10:23And I remember I sort of watched that first match, and I was like, wow, she actually is moving well, hitting the ball well. She's only covering half the court, but still, it's a really good start. So, yeah, and it was a great story, and it was great to watch, and she was just so happy, you know? There was just, like, a lot of joy on the court there, and it was just great to see. yeah I loved it I think when I've watched Venus Williams in the past couple of times that she's played there has been a slight discomfort because she just didn't seem that physically well like her knee was clearly a big issue in the past few years immediately now you could tell that she was healthier and moving better like and she can still absolutely crank that serve I mean that that really stood out as as a great shot for her and the ground strokes as well with those long levers like that's not gonna go away and it's just a joy to kind of see those shots again and she played great against Peyton Stearns it got a bit tight at the end didn't it like she needed a lot of match points to get over the line but like what a moment for her to win a match in 2025 against a you know top 50 player there was one rally where she hyper extended on on the knee and it sort of collapsed on her and I had a sharp intake of breath but otherwise like just an absolute joy that whole occasion and yeah like I really enjoyed as well in her post match interview that she didn't seem to know who Magdalena Freck was she was like who?

12:00that really it was very it was very Wickmire it really was so I enjoyed that and look I think kind of if you did have a problem with this wildcard you probably have a problem with wildcards generally because as you said katherine like how can you how can you not look at that and think that with the pack crowds and the people flocking to it that that was a good use of a wildcard like it just invigorated that event and that's that's kind of where i stand on it it pivoted my general stance against wildcards like it made me rethink it and adjust my feeling, which was that, you know, at 250s and 500s can have wild cards, 1000s and slams.

12:48I think the wild cards should maybe only be into qualifying and maybe actually even not exist in slams. But I had been a pretty staunch anti-wild card person because I thought it just made the sport kind of goofy. But this changed my thought. See, I've been percolating for the last few weeks and months and incubating a very strong anti-wildcard sentiment. I think I don't believe in wildcards. I think they're anti-competitive and anti-democratic and I like democracy and competition. but I will admit that this Venus Williams wildcard is a is a blow to my new my new my new stance and look if if we're gonna have wildcards this is this is what they should look like this is you know this is the most positive I can possibly feel about a wildcard although I didn't necessarily feel positive about it conceptually I did have a lot of anxiety about whether it would be awkward and sad and I do look I loved it too I loved I loved watching her beat Peyton Sterns I loved watching her play in that doubles the whole thing was was electric and as you say really uplifting and very joyful um but and you know she came into press afterwards didn't she and delivered the this really really positive message about you know just don't put limits on yourself age doesn't age doesn't mean anything and I so want to believe that and just go with it and be like yeah she's such an inspiration age doesn't mean anything but also like we're tennis podcasters that have spent half our year talking about Novak Djokovic and the reality of you know not being father time being the one battle you nobody no matter how great can can win um so but yeah I guess with Venus Williams you've got the relief of she's not putting any pressure on us to make any sense of it or make it mean anything or talk about it in terms of a comeback or what's possible like she and we are totally free to just enjoy it absolutely for for what it is so i'm going to try and do that um and and and stick with my new stance on wild cards i'm going to try and have my cake and eat it basically and also i was looking at that draw and being like well your problem here cannot be with venus williams playing in the draw when like loads of the top players are getting buys i have way more problem with the buys like taking slots away from from players playing like that was how i looked at that draw i'm was like i'm pleased that venus williams's name is in there i'm not pleased that i see all these buys in there like you could fill those slots with more players and then like you'd have more room for wild cards like like venus williams as well and yeah i kind of think as well that venus williams getting a win at 45 you know like i did see a lot of positive reaction to it Like a lot of people love this.

16:13I want to recognize that. I also saw a lot of people being like, you know, sort of questioning the sort of competitiveness and the level of women's tennis. And I just thought like if Federer announced a comeback and won a match, no one will be talking about the competitive men's tennis. They'll be talking about how great Rocha Federer is. Like it's a remarkable thing that Venus Williams is still able to win a match at 45. like she is a marvel in in in that respect it's not normal and like it's an it's an achievement that i just feel like can be can be massively celebrated yeah and 250s and 500 are already anti-competitive i mean they already have like limits on who can play i mean certainly the 250s are kind of what can you i mean you saw it with the whole madison key situation because because she couldn't play because she had made the top 10 and they already had another top 10 player, right?

17:11And you've got the murkiness of guarantees, which is something that we all know happens, but it isn't talked about. Yeah, so they already are anti-competitive. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for anything and just say, oh, well, who cares? Let's make the whole thing an exhibition. Let's get Emi Navarro and Yannick Sinner together. Call it a party. Right. More on that later. Since we're with the women's tournament, let's put off talking about Alejandro Davidovich Vakina's heartbreak a little longer still and talk about the champion and the final and the matches leading up to it. Leila Fernandez winning this title, the biggest title of her career, beating Anna Kalinskaya 6-1, 6-2 in kind of, well, the most uneventful match of her week, really.

18:04She really rolled back the years this last week in terms of becoming that player that Matt Pamschriver described as the best show in tennis at the end of 2021. Not just that run to the US Open final where she played great match after great match after great match, but she continued it, didn't she? I remember that October in Indian Wells, she lit up the place as well. And she's a gritty old competitor, isn't she? When she gets her teeth into a tennis match. And sometimes I'm watching her thinking, how are you making this work with that serve? Like, how is this working as a game? But she's a terrier and a warrior.

18:51And she she thrived, I think, in the in the sort of conditions in Matt's words, swampy, which is a term that is making me shudder. But, yeah, she she thrived in the swamp, didn't she? Where many others wilted. She was incredible this week. yeah and look if if david were here he would definitely be telling people that this has happened just after he's drafted leila fernandez into his fantasy team so shout out david for that foresight he maybe he maybe saw this run coming and i didn't frankly because like you say i've i've watched leila fernandez this year and it's been it's been a bit of a struggle at times you She hasn't won that many matches, and the serve is just such a glaring part of the game that you feel like it's been holding her back.

19:45The technique on it, she's so front on. Her toss is all over the place, really. She's chasing it. I keep thinking of the Mary Crillo line about, if you need good footwork to hit a serve, you've got a problem. And that's kind of where she is or has been with her serve because of that ball toss. But actually, she had a great serving week, And when that shot's under control and she's getting her teeth into these matches, you're kind of reminded about what a great player she can be. And look, I always, when I think of Leila Fernandes, I think of Emera Ducanu because they just seem so linked because of that US Open run.

20:24And one of the things we often say about Emera Ducanu is that her game has struggled against some of the top players. You know, when she comes up against them, there's a weight of shot issue and she can't really hurt them quite so much. But it's interesting with Fernandez that that run to the US Open final was defined by her causing the top players problems. She has got a game because of the way she takes the ball early and she can rush them that can kind of compete with anyone when it's all coming together for her as it was this week. and we saw it. You know, she beat Pagula very early in this tournament and then she backed that up by beating Rabatkinna, two of the top players in the sport.

21:03And, you know, Rabatkinna herself has got a real closing problem at the moment. She's not finishing matches and this was one that she should have won. You know, she served for the match to win in straight sets against Fernandes. But you just give Fernandes an inch and she will take a mile and she just dug in in that second set, surged through the surged through the tie break and then had another surge right at the end of the match in the final set tie break to beat to beat Rebecca and then just absolutely steamroll uh Kalinskaia in the final who didn't didn't really show up but yeah like a great throwback week in a way it feels like a weird thing to say for Fernandes because she's still young but it did feel much more like the performances that she put in as you said in that 2021 period and I guess like judging it what does it mean I just don't know whether whether the serve is going to be reliably like this moving forward because I think it it has to be like this for her to be able to play the way that she did this week and get into these matches but I hope so because as you said a reminder of kind of the show that she can put on and and the way that she can compete in these matches and make them occasions.

22:19You know, just her matches just draw people in. And that's a great quality. I really did enjoy watching her this week. I mean, you say throwback week, but I think the arc of her ranking and her performance is actually pretty good. Like, I mean, she's in the top 30 now. And I had a long talk with her at one, not this past Australian Open, the Australian Open before, and she had fallen down in the rankings. and then was like climbing her way back up. And she was like, yeah, I tried to get away with like not working and had to have some, you know, come to Jesus conversations with coaches. And, you know, and like I worked very hard and like she's kind of been, you know, I think at that point she was like working her way into the top 40 and that was like her goal.

23:07And then she's like into, I think she's just like scrapping her way into what's going to be like a really solid career. And... What's a solid career? Like, what are you, top 20, consistently top 20? Could she qualify for a WTA finals? So I don't know if she's going to like have a season where she's going to finish in the top 10, but you know what's a solid career? It's like, she's going to make a lot of money. like from September 10th, 2021 on whose career would you rather have Emma Raducano or Leila Fernandez from that date on who would you rather have Leila Fernandez or Bianca Andreescu? I mean, these are all like players who like have their shooting star moment and, or would you rather be someone who grinds out$10 million or something like that over, you know, I mean, she's basically a top woman from a pretty wealthy country.

24:14She's got a really nice Lululemon deal. Like she's and they make great kit. Yeah, they make she looks great. And the app tennis kit that she shows up to in the press conferences, some of the pants she shows up in look so comfortable you just want to like lululemon use high quality fabrics not all not all sportswear manufacturers do that right so anyway so that's what i'm saying is like a solid career like let's set aside i guess i guess those of those three names you throw out leila fernandez at this stage looks like the the player that might have the fewest what ifs about her like she might be the one that ends up kind of maximizing her career i don't know yeah i don't want to say bianca and jescu hasn't like maximized because she's just had albie's well she's been prevent prevented from right i'm not just as i'm not ready to talk about alejandro davidovich for kina yet i'm definitely not ready to talk about bianca andrescu yeah so anyway i just think like she took that hard loss I think what second round in Wimbledon this year.

25:27And she just like didn't show up. And I think I was one of like two or three people in one of those post-match news conferences. Because she's genuinely like really interesting to talk to and is always very generous emotionally. And it became like, there was like three of us in a small room and she just like broke down. and it was like one of those awkward like it didn't turn out to be awkward because i think we were all like pretty kind to her and it but it turned into it wasn't really a press conference it was kind of like we were kind of giving her a pep talk and being like don't be so hard on yourself it was the first time i actually handed a tennis player a tissue um because like you know i was sitting next door and she's sitting there crying and like you know i happened to have you're not a monster i haven't had a tissue on me like here and she's you know like anyway and she was like down and um but she was better by the time she walked out of the she was a little better as she walked out of the door and it was like you know chin up layla it's gonna be okay and like here she comes back and she basically wins her next tournament and like that's who i think of when i think of Leila Fernandez like she's a tough kid you know like and she's going to be a tough kid for I think a long time I think sort of every season she's had like a run of some kind or a title of some kind you know whether it be at the Billie Jean King Cup or smaller sort of 250 level events like she's had these little reminders of what she can do and it's and it's kept her at a very consistent ranking unlike you know emiratakanu and and andrescu as the examples that you've given i just feel like coming into washington this year she'd actually had a losing record on the tour in 2025 it did feel to me like there was a bit of a decline going on and just just like the eye test with that serve has been such a problem for such a long time but i guess i i guess i use the word throwback because of like the feel of some of her matches this week you know like just turning them into those great contests like that feeling of of like she's never down and out and that was there this week which I loved seeing and it and it really carried her through against against some big names in difficult conditions yeah yeah I mean the Rabakina match how Rabakina didn't didn't win that.

28:00Yes, it was very much partly down to the dogged determination of Leila Fernandes, but Rabakna is a shell of the player that she once was. And Anna Kananskaya in the final, she's got to be one of the best players in the WTA not to have won a title. I mean, obviously, there's obvious parallels we're going to make now with Alejandro Davidovich Vakina in the men's, but a very different type of final here. She was nowhere near at all, Kalinskaya. Having been brilliant to beat Emma Raducanu in the semifinals, I really favoured Raducanu going into that one, having seen the tennis she'd been playing all week.

28:44I thought it was a fantastic week for Raducanu and her serve that had been so strong for the week, getting her through to the semifinals, The semifinals just wasn't quite there in that semifinal. And Kanlinskaya was bang on it. But yeah, a fantastic week for Adekanu. And yeah, I was slightly disappointed not to get the replay of the 2021 US Open final. But well played, Leila Fernandes. And yeah, that's one champion. The second champion in Washington, Alex de Menor, beating Alejandro Davidovic-Vikina 5-7, 6-1, 7-6 in the final, saving three championship points. An extraordinary performance from Alex de Menor.

29:34He's got a bit of the terrier about himself. His 10th career title, but his first of the year, and let's not forget it has been a difficult period for him. He's been talking about burnout. He had a strange grass court season, really. Of course, he reached that quarterfinal and played well against Novak Djokovic. But basically, it's been a tough few months for him. And this is a real benchmark week and performance for him. But it's going to be hard to give him his dues without talking about the devastation of Alejandro Davidovic Fikina, who has now squandered match points in two finals this season and is surely the best player in the ATP, not to have won a title mat.

30:27Any mat? Yeah, look, if you told me that Alejandro Davidovic Fikina would have a more devastating final this year than his Delray Beach one, I would have said impossible. And yeah, I think we got it. Look, the quality of opponent, higher. I think he may be expected to win the Delray Beach one against Ketsmanovic. That did feel like one that got away, for sure. Going into this, even though I felt like Daviduj Fakina was maybe playing the better tennis through the week, beating Taylor Fritz and then beat Ben Shelton, doing so on the same day because he finished against Taylor Fritz so late, He had to come back literally the same day and beat Ben Shelton.

31:14A really impressive back-to-back effort from Davidovic Fikina. I felt like he was playing actually closer to his peak than De Menor was through the week. De Menor racking up a lot more errors than we're kind of used to seeing from him. But getting through these matches impressively because he's such a good competitor, as you've said. So I didn't really have Alejandro Davidovic Fikina necessarily as the favourite against De Menor, a guy who, as you said, had already won nine titles and is very, very good in finals when he's the higher-ranked player. You know, he wins matches that he's expected to win, does Dimonor.

31:47And yet, Davinovic Fikina gets himself in a position up 4-1 in the third and has Love 30 on the Dimonor serve, serving for the match at 5-3, gets to 30 Love, and his forehand just absolutely vacates the stadium. and then the game at 5-4 he has three championship points. I have to say, Dimonor plays those championship points extremely well. Like the first one he knocks off a volley winner. The second one he creates the kind of rally that he wants, Dimonor, a long one and draws it out. But it's the third one where David Hsvokina hits a forehand approach and Dumanor throws up this defensive lob and there must have been a part of David Išvokina that thought about taking that lob out of the air and hitting it.

32:42But I think a bigger part and the part that took over was this might drop out and God, wouldn't it be good if this dropped out so that this is over. And he lets it bounce and it's 16 millimeters in. And then he has kind of an awkward backpedaling and again, you know, the rally plays out from there and he comes forward, Davidovic Fikina and Dimonor hits a pretty nice backhand pass and oh, you just feel for Davidovic Fikina like the millimetres because he'd missed one against Ketsmanovic in that Delray beach final on a match point he went for it and he missed by a few millimetres and then again, it's millimetres denying him here and look, it's what makes tennis so compelling You've got that narrative inside the match of these two guys trying to win this title.

33:35You've got the bigger narrative outside of it and us knowing what Davidovic Fikina has been through in his career from, you know, I shat myself against Holger Runa with the underarm serve at Wimbledon in the match tiebreak to the Delray Beach final to other losses in finals. Like, he's had so many brutal losses. And I think everyone watching this just, you know, I really like Alex Dimonor. I was rooting for Alejandro Davidovic-Fakina to get over the line and get a title. And yet, it's just not the way it went. And then it went into a final set tie break. And Dimonor was the better player and got it done.

34:16And I just felt for Davidovic-Fakina. Like, it's just rough. it's just really really rough that that he he loses another heartbreaking final yeah and he got the um well he got some incredibly heartfelt consolation from alex de minore in the moment i mean the the scenes of them on on the chair together are well beautiful and and devastating very well handled by de minore who in his speech gave him the it's only a matter of time

34:53but it's not a given is it like this happening like he's obviously a good enough tennis player obviously but there's a reason this is happening and each time it happens other mat it feels more likely to happen a subsequent time like the next time he's five two up in a deciding set I'm going to be putting a cushion in front of my eyes. I think it's time to stop with the mismatched socks, personally. Like, they're kind of, like, put yourself more seriously. Like, match the socks. Just, like, get yourself in the mode. And part of this was an interview I did with him, like, in Madrid. And he's been much better this year.

35:41And he said the reason he's much better is because he moved to Monaco, which, like, think what you want about Monte Carlo. Paying taxes was what was holding him back. That was part of it. The other part of it was he was like, yeah, I get to play with Yannick Sinner every week. Like, I get to practice with these guys. And it's funny because, like, we think of it as, like, well, yeah, of course, like, do your job seriously. And he was basically like, yeah, I was living in Malaga, hitting with my friends and it was nice. He was like, he's like, well, God, these guys really work. And so he sort of like is in, you know, now he's hanging around the Monte Carlo country club and hitting with Medvedev and Zverev and all these other players who are, and Sinner and all these other players who are the top players in the world.

36:35And he's just like practicing differently. And I think the next step is to start wearing socks that are the same color. You know, I think he's so talented and has such incredible strokes and is, like, so beautiful a tennis player to watch. And, like, he has everything. Like, you know, usually when you say, like, oh, you know, like when Djokovic is telling Sitsipas you're going to win many of these Grand Slams, like, he doesn't actually think Sitsipas is going to win many of these Grand Slams. But I think when Diminar is telling David Chikina, like, you're too good not to win one of these, like, I think he's pretty, I think that's genuinely how people think about him.

37:19Like, they think he's a great player, but he's just the guy who will hit an underarm serve on match point. He's the guy who'll keep coming back to the socks again, which I think goes along with, like, the quirky guy who wears a black sock and a white sock. Like, don't be quirky. Don't hit the underarm serve on match point. Like, be great, be who you are. And like, you know, like, it's, it's something that like a lot of people in all walks of life go to and they're sort of like in their 20s, and they're not quite ready to be an adult, and they don't really know how to behave in the workplace. but like at some point you sort of settle down and you'd be like and you sort of sort of start acting like a grown-up and like you know i think like he's getting there and you know i i use the socks as a metaphor but like i think he's made great strides and just gotta make that next step well how great to have such a easily rectifiable thing to get you over the line.

38:23Sometimes it's that way though. Sometimes it is that simple of like, you know, you stop wearing ripped clothes to the office and like you start taking yourself a little more seriously and other people take you more seriously. And it becomes like a virtuous cycle. And like he's practicing with good players now and showing up in the weight room. and like he's doing all these he's doing all these correct things so i think he takes the odd socks seriously like i think that's become you know it's it's something that is his thing it's his it's kind of his style i'm i'm in on the odd socks i like the davidovich vikino odd socks and i think he's gonna win a title one day in his odd socks and he's gonna he's gonna show that he can he can do it I think you're absolutely right about like the steps to practice with better players more and all of that I I think he's he's done a lot of that work and I think that I think the day is going to come I agree with you Catherine about the scar tissue building and but I do think that he is so good and he does seem to be he does seem to be getting better actually that i i do think a title is going to come for him um but i did also think of all those tennis relives when alex de minore was was saying that and and and wince a little bit but like i i like i think matt's right like players rate him i remember when when we spoke to medvedev at indian wells medvedev put him on his on his men's backhand list didn't he he was one of the first names that that came to mind for medvedev with that shot and david's always talking about his great ball strike and how that shot just flies off his strings and he seems to have it under control a lot more.

40:19But yeah, trying to close these tournaments is tough. And it goes to show like no small feat for Alex de Manor to have 10 of these, right? Like a player with Davidovic Fikina's talent is struggling to get one. And Alex de Manor's got 10. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a great point. in Umag Luciano Darderi has done the double which of Borstad and Gestad did he win which way round was it he won Borstad he won Borstad and Bublik won Gestad and has also done the double by winning Kitzbühel so Bublik and Darderi mopping up in the post Wimbledon men's clay court swing that has Matt Futterman sort of softly shaking his head in a way that I very much approve of.

41:16Yeah, well done them. Well done me for signing Bublik to my fantasy team at just the right time. Apparently he's not playing Toronto Bublik. He's kind of prioritised these points over... over we've now got an eye roll to go with the head shake would you like to add a comment to your um body language matt i mean like i'm all for i'm all for players like being able to play tournaments to not have to and not have to travel as much because like travel is exhausting and if you're a european player like you know do you want to come you know coming over to america for two months is it's a lot like and i know they've been in europe for since april but like you know they also have to go to the australia middle east sunshine double first three months which is no fun so it's fine but like clay court like clay court season ends with the last ball of roland Garros, like, just do that tennis.

42:26And like, and then let's move on. And then clay can like appear in the odd home and away Davis Cup thing. And then it's like, and then it's awesome. Like, oh, no, we're gonna put the Spanish, we're gonna put the Americans on clay. And, you know, You know, it's like that's where clay should be the rest of the year. Not in July, after Wimbledon. So you can mop up some points and sneak your way. I don't know. It just feels kind of icky. So congratulations to Luciano Darderi and Alexander Bublik on your icky wins in Umag and Kitsbjewel, respectively. And to Marie Buskova, who won the title in Prague.

43:12She won the Chekhov in the final beat, Linda Nozkova. That's it for part one. Join us in part two for news. And there's a lot of it. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day. But not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top-grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time, and their scale gives them a serious edge.

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46:30Matt Roberts: For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50 % off and free shipping for your first box, plus free dessert for life. Go to homechef.com slash tennispod. That's homechef.com slash tennispod for 50 % off your first box and free dessert for life. homechef.com slash tennispod. You must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Welcome back to part two of the Tennis Podcast, where we turn our attention now to news from the past, well, mostly the past week, but also some bits and bobs of news from the week before as well that we haven't yet had a chance to touch upon. Let's start with Yannick Sinner rehiring Umberto Ferrara, the fitness trainer, of course, who was implicated in the incident that led to his doping ban, his being massaged with steroid cream that led to him testing positive.

47:32quote, Umberto has played an important role in Yannick's development to date and his return reflects a renewed focus on continuity and performance at the highest level. The decision has been made in alignment with Yannick's management team as part of ongoing preparations for upcoming tournaments, including the Cincinnati Open and the US Open. Now, just to remind you of the timeline, obviously the incident, the offending massage took place in Indian Wells last year. Yannick Sinner found out about the positive test a few weeks later. We found out about it almost exactly a year ago. It was the day after he won the title in Cincinnati that it became public.

48:13That was a week out from the US Open. And it wasn't until that time that it became public that Yannick Sinner made the decision to part ways with Umberto Ferrara. He then, of course, hired Novak Djokovic's old fitness training team. He dispatched with them after Haller recently. So now he's rehired Umberto Ferrara. It's more Yannick Sinner backstage chaos for the most unchaotic tennis player there is. Like this, what next from Yannick Sinner? This was really, really unexpected to me, Matt. And I honestly don't know what to make of it at all. Massively unexpected. And yes, pretty strange optics, right?

49:09I don't really know why you would bring it all up again. obviously Ferrara is adamant that he told Naldi to use the spray for personal use and personal use only and Ferrara says that he warned Naldi so it seems to be that like Naldi is the one who's Naldi is under the bus right and you know Sinner presumably believes that and trusts that and has forgiven Ferrara for his part in it and kind of wants to move on with him in his career. I suppose I kind of look at it as kind of like, is Ferraro really that good? That there aren't other fitness trainers that you could potentially work with that don't have all of this sort of backstory and baggage?

50:06And look, it seems like this year he's been in really good physical condition with the team that he got rid of after Haller. Like, I think there's been a noticeable improvement, actually, in Sinner's physical condition on court. He looks less bothered by the hip a lot of the time. And he's lasting, you know, think of the tennis he played after five and a half hours against Alcarez at the French Open. Like, I've been less worried about his sort of physical condition. And I'm not saying that he didn't do important work with Ferraro in his career. And he obviously thinks that Ferraro is an important person and he's moving forward with him.

50:42I found that the expression reflecting a renewed focus on continuity and performance at the highest level slightly odd. Like what has Yannick Sinner been focusing on, if not performance at the highest level for the last 18 months? It really didn't seem like he needed a renewed focus there. But he obviously did need a fitness trainer. Like you can you can get through a tournament, as he showed at Wimbledon, as he showed at the US Open last year without one. But he needs one. I'm just very surprised that he's gone in this direction, going back to someone who, you know, certainly played some part in really, like, damaging Sinner's reputation and potentially costing a big part of his career.

51:29Like, it's just a massive surprise to me. And it's going to be interesting to hear Sinner, like, talk about it as he will in his press conferences rather than just with this statement from his team. Yeah, look, Matt, there's no doubt that optically this is a weird one, right? Like, eyebrows will be raised at this. No, I actually 100 % disagree with both of you. Like, I don't understand why he fired him in the first place. Like, I never understood it. I thought that optically was bad. But the fact is that he did. I know. And I think that was like a and I think that was a mistake. And that was like like if I think that like actually contradicted in some ways the story he told and the story he wanted us all to believe and the story that the ITIA believed and that ultimately WADA by giving him, you know, a slap on the wrist basically believed, too, which is that this was a mistake.

52:34This was like an honest mistake by people who were kind of stupid and should have known better. And by firing them initially, I thought he made it seem like there was something dirty about them, that he was trying to distance himself from people who had. And this is if you believe that the cream was not covering up for something else, which is what all the scientists believe, which is what the tribunals have accepted. So, like, you know, if you're Nick Kyrgios, if you're Denis Shapovalov, if you're maybe he's backtracked or something. I don't know. I can't keep it. I can't keep I can't keep everybody's like complaints on Twitter about this and, you know, bitterness about this straight.

53:23But like there are people in the world who will never accept and will always think that there was Shady and that he was. And yes, it seems like he was given some pretty good treatment in terms of like process and speed and stuff like that. But having said that, like everything that's read, everything that's official is like that this was a dumb, honest mistake. But is it dumb enough to warrant a firing? okay but like raise your hand if you haven't done dumb things and okay but if i but there are consequences for that yeah if i employed somebody that did something dumb enough to get me banned for three three months because because i am ultimately responsible for their behavior that is i mean it's up to yannick sinner whether he considers that a fireable offense but he obviously did consider that a fireable offense or somebody told them to to consider that or if someone said it was worth it to consider it a fireable offense.

54:22And then, I don't know, I'm looking forward to speaking to him about it and finding out, like, exactly how he thought this through. But also, like, in the world of the rules, Barta Ferrara is allowed to continue to coach anyone. Sinner probably thinks he's the best. And he's like, I want the best guy. Like, you know, like I actually want the person who's best for me. Why should I let Matteo Berrettini have that guy? Or like, why should I let someone else have that guy if like he's okay? And like, I worked with him and he did something stupid. And like I said, like people do, people do dumb shit.

55:09Like I've done dumb things that like, you know, I don't know that I've done anything that like should have gotten me fired. But like, you know, there's, there's things that maybe could have gone a different way and it would have come out worse. And, you know, and then maybe somebody would have said he would have should be fired. And I'm talking about like, you know, lifeguarding at a country club when I was 16 years old, you know, I'm not talking about like, you know, plagiarism or anything like that in my career. um so i'm just saying that like i don't know if the if the record shows that like this guy's clear like i believe in second chances i really do like you know you commit a crime you go to prison you come out like you should be able to get a job like you know and i agree with that i'm just surprised that sin has gone gone back there personally do we think there's any chance that And this is the reference to a renewed focus on continuity in this statement.

56:19Is there any chance this is linked in Sinner's mind to the fact that Darren Cahill isn't going to be available for the US Open? Darren Cahill isn't going to be at the US Open and he's seeking a comforting figure in the absence of Darren Cahill? I think he's thinking longer term than that. You know, he's got Simone as his sort of guy who's always there and I don't think it's linked to that. But, you know, that was another piece of Yannick Sinner news, wasn't it, that came out in the Italian press about Cahill not being at the US Open. There's obviously a lot of speculation at the moment. We don't really know what Cahill is going to be doing beyond this year.

57:12Wouldn't surprise me if he did continue working with Sinner beyond this year, even though at the start of the year it was kind of said that it would be his final year with him. Like all that uncertainty. Well, if Yannick Sinner is looking for a new coach come the end of 2025, Goran Ivanovic is once again available. His, quote, brief but intense spell with Stefano Sitsipas is over.

57:43what do we have to say about this we understand Sitsipas is getting back together with his with his dad I think after how Wimbledon went and the quotes that came out of Goran Ivanovic after after Wimbledon I don't think this is any tremendous surprise I think the episode is a surprise I think Goran Ivanovic signing up for this gig in the first place given the known messiness around Sitsipas and his dad and that sort of situation and the recent getting his hands burnt that Ivanovic has sustained with his brief spell with Elena Rabatkin. I'm surprised he signed up for this role in the first place but I'm not surprised that it didn't last long and has crashed and burned.

58:38It's kind of sad as it makes me feel for Stefanos Tsitsipas. And it does make me intrigued about what Goran's going to do next because he wants to coach. He's taking these jobs because he wants to be out there. I think he... I think he's anxious about these bad episodes stacking up on his CV and I think he's desperate for another success, maybe not a Novak Djokovic style success. But yeah, I think he'll be keen to get out there. But I also think it's, I don't know, this feels like a pretty critical move who he coaches next. I probably would have fired Goran if he'd gone after me the way Goran went after Stefanos publicly.

59:28I mean, I think it was probably already over at that point. Yeah, that seems possibly possible as well. So although I remember speaking with, I mean, I think, where were we? At the fancy place, Hurlingham. And I was just with like one other person speaking with Stephanos. And he was still speaking pretty kindly about Gorin at that point and talking about learning stuff. And, you know, I don't know if it was already over at that point because I'd actually seen Stephanos like sitting at a picnic table. at the All England Club during that qualifying week with his dad, having a look like what was a pretty serious heart-to-heart.

1:00:18And my immediate thought was like, oh, this is where that's going. Okay. So, but also like, yeah, not really great, not really a great look for Goran, who I realized is a friend of the tennis podcast to, you know, be lighting up his former players like that. No, I think this is a regrettable episode for Goran and his coaching CV. I really do. I don't think the Elena Rabatkinner episode reflects badly on him at all. I think he worries that it does. And I think maybe that worry was part of why he accepted this role and was keen to jump back in quickly and prove himself. Yeah, which makes me, you know, his stock couldn't have been higher after coaching Novak Djokovic, could it?

1:01:14It felt like he could pretty much have his pick of players that needed a coach and were willing to agree to his terms in terms of, you know, number of weeks and pay, which I assume is, you know, I assume he's one of the pricier coaches out there. but as is Darren Cahill, which is probably my guesses, which my guess may be at the heart of the mystery around how much further, how much longer they'll be together. Interesting. Okay. But yeah. That's just a gap. I mean, but I always think, I mean, I think everything's about money. So, you know, I just, I mean, generally because it generally is. So is Naomi Osaka split with Patrick Muratogli then about money?

1:02:02I mean, it might be about her not making her not making the money that she thinks she should or getting the results. This was announced yesterday via social media, as things are. She's she said lots of warm things about Patrick Muratogli, but that is the end of their relationship. She lost out to Emma Raducanu in Washington last week. She's lost, isn't she, Matt? Naomi Osaka is lost right now. Yeah, and when she hired Patrick Morotoglu in the first place, looking at the recent Patrick Morotoglu history, I was always worried about sort of where it might end up, that coaching relationship. You know, if you look at sort of where he left Holger Runa and where he left Simona Hallet, it's probably in a worse place than where he found them.

1:02:57And yet I did think that there might be an initial jolt and an initial impact. And I think the sort of real shame for Osaka is that in that period, in those first few tournaments she had with Muratoglu, she got injured, didn't she? You know, she had to retire against Goff at the back end of last year. she had to retire in that Auckland final this year where she debatably lost to Towson and then she had to retire at the Australian Open and I actually think she was playing really good tennis then early in this partnership but she was having to retire and she was injured and then as it's gone on well in her words the results haven't been resulting and there's just been a lot of red flags really over the last few months you know that statement from Moratoglu about no stars in in women's tennis like you're literally working with Naomi Osaka and that press conference in Paris where Osaka spoke about you know not wanting to let him down and how he used to work with the greatest of all time and now he's seeing that performance after her loss to Podossa like that was a red flag of not a healthy player coach relationship and then even at Wimbledon when when David had that exchange for the soccer in the press conference.

1:04:13And she was like, yeah, I didn't know he'd said that, but I do see some stuff that he says when I'm scrolling. And like, it just wasn't really sounding good. And the results haven't been good over the last few months. And yeah, lost is kind of a good way to put it really. And that very often leads to a coaching change. So I'm not surprised by this one, to be honest. Likewise. More US Open mixed doubles pairings were announced this past week. If anything, things have got weirder. So confirmed, we have Emma Navarro, Yannick Sinner, I'm Afraid Matt, Holger Runa and Amanda Anisimova does seem to be confirmed.

1:05:02Igor Shiontek and Kasper Rood, Lena Rabachner and Taylor Fritz, Jasmine Paolini, Lorenzo Mazzetti, Jessica Begula, Tommy Paul, Mira Androva, Daniel Medvedev, Madison Keyes and Francis Tiafoe. Those partnerships, those pairs are confirmed based on their combined rankings. Now, I should point out that, as we detailed last week, things get weird now in the tennis schedule. and the final of Cincinnati is on a Monday and the final of Cincinnati is three weeks today and the US Open mixed doubles starts three weeks tomorrow. There are going to be withdrawals. Players reaching the final in Cincinnati and a lot of players on that list would be favoured to reach the semis and or finals of Cincinnati.

1:06:00they're not going to be rushing to New York to make sure they reach the start line for the mixed doubles is my prediction. So look, those are the confirmed teams for now but I think there are going to be withdrawals. We have some more doubles players that have entered the fray. We've got some interesting partnerships. We have Gabby Dabrowski, the Canadian doubles specialist partnering with Felix Auger, alias Seam. And we have the two doubles number ones I feel like combining to kind of try and make a statement here. I love this. Marcelo Arevalo and Katerina Siniarkova. I'm really interested about what the US Open do with those two and whether they get in.

1:06:46And we also have Sue Weishay and Jan, it's Jan, isn't it? Jan Zielinski. I get him confused with Jan Zalesny, the javelin thrower of the 90s. No, Jan Zelinsky. We also have Donna Vekic and Hubert Hercatch. And we have we have Venus Williams and Riley Opelka. We have Katie Bolter and Alex de Minoer. And we have, I think, the weirdest of the bunch, Karolina Mukova and Andrei Rublev. Yeah, it's great. it's great to see the organizers of the u.s of the it's great to see like eric buterak and stacy allister squirm in this situation like yeah and sinneago and arevalo really have caused a squirm there i think i think that's a really fun question that they have posed it's it's i mean it's it's perfect in terms of like and i don't know i have no idea what they're what they're going to do but if i had to bet i would think they would let in the defending champions and then everyone else is just going to be like a bright lights name and so the defending champions that would be irani and vavasora you think they'll be the only doubles specialist team and then they'll lean in and then they're just going to be like no like this mixed doubles is we said we're trying to do something else and they're going to double down on on venus williams like they're going to take the biggest stars they can get like right now like djokovic and donilovich aren't in like right alcaraz radhikarnu aren't in i suspect they will get a world card right exactly like but then but then they also might have to withdraw if alcaraz is goes deep pin Cincinnati.

1:08:45Right. Or Radicani. Yeah. I was thrilled that those doubles players entered as well because there is the possibility that this actually is interesting now with those pairs. I definitely think you could create, with the wild cards, a good field. I agree with Matt. I don't think they're going to do that. I think they're going to lean into the single stars who have entered but haven't made the cut because of ranking. and look the biggest problem for me is the format like it can only be a certain amount of interesting because of the format with it being fast four and sudden death deuce and you know all of that just takes the sting out of it for me anyway but i like the fact that the doubles players have said hang on a minute let's let's let's make them say no to us is is kind of what i like about it um yeah fun i was pleased to see that extended entry list yeah me too it's it's it's great i guess is they're going to say like yeah they're great doubles players they have their tournament yeah that's what that's what doubles is for mic this mixed doubles is something is something else the market something else but it's not an exhibition no one say the words the marketplace place has rejected the other form of mixed doubles we're gonna we want to do this thing with singles players fast stuff although i i will say but getting back in terms of fast stuff when we were talking about swampy city open there was a moment last week where i thought like maybe they should play match tie breaks third sets and singles at the city open because it's like just Because of how swampy it is.

1:10:34Just because of how swampy it is. Like, would that be the worst thing in the world? Like, player hell? Yeah. Okay. I totally understand. I mean, I will say I much prefer two full sets and then a match tie break than a fast four. Sudden Death Juice and Fast Four is the egregious offenses. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I want that. But like in the city open, like third set match tie break for people who are making them come back the day after day after day. But then you'd have to devise metrics for swampiness. Where do we draw the line? No, just do it for the whole tournament. No, but then other swampy tournaments.

1:11:16Well, that's up to them. Washington is not alone in its swampiness. You haven't been to the city open yet. I'd put it up there. Yeah, I think it's probably the worst conditions. Did you see Alex de Manor come on to court for the final, like carrying pairs of shoes that wouldn't fit in his bag because he knew that he was going to sweat through so many pairs during the course of the final? Like, yeah, it's bad. No, it's the worst. Speaking as we have been as a theme throughout this show of world cards, let's talk about Bill Ackman. Now this is a tennis story from a couple of weeks ago that got a lot of attention at the time.

1:12:00Bill Ackman, for anybody that doesn't know, is a billionaire head fund manager of some notoriety, particularly in the States. But I think he's pretty well known the world over as well. Huge tennis fan. and he played in the Hall of Fame Open in Newport, Rhode Island this year, a competitive ATP sanctioned event, a challenger event. It used to be a main tour event, downgraded to challenger this year, but a sanctioned event nonetheless. He took a wild card into the doubles competition alongside Jack Sock, who is himself now a retired tennis player. Bill Ackman is 59 years old and pretty bad at tennis like they lost badly to Omar Jessica and Bernard Tomic and Omar Jessica and Bernard Tomic were were not playing at full pelt would be my assessment of the clips that I saw the whole thing was you know in terms of competitive sport an absolute joke.

1:13:08And it was followed up by a lengthy tweet by Bill Ackman sort of blaming Jack Sock for not giving him the juice side, blaming his poor performance on Jack Sock for not giving him the juice side. And it was also followed up with an announcement that Bill Ackman would be giving a$10 million endowment to the International Tennis Hall of Fame. All lovely and above board, Matt Futterman. How icky is this whole episode for you? Well, the epilogue of that was they rejected that, that$10 million donation, that thing. They didn't accept it. And so he, in trying to save face, then gave that to the JTCC, which is a junior tennis champion centre, which is the academy that produced Tiafoe and Hailey Baptiste.

1:14:12It's the DC area thing. So that's just the epilogue to it. Is your sense, Matt, and call me a cynic here, that that donation was rejected in response to the backlash and the publicity that this episode received, do you think it was always going to be rejected? I think there was a couple of things. Because it very much spoke to quid pro quo and all of a sudden International Tennis Hall of Fame was like, ooh, I don't think they had a big problem with the quid pro quo. It was the problem of all the attention towards the quid pro quo, So it's probably got it got them a little nervous. Also, you know, Bill Ackman, as you said, of some renown, he's like a big he's been a big Trump supporter.

1:15:08He's been a big at least this go around in the election cycle. He's also been sort of at the forefront of cracking down on his alma mater, Harvard, on, you know, what he deems is them being too lenient towards, you know, people who are more sympathetic with Palestinians and Gaza and anti-Israel. some of us would say there's this thing called free speech which is pretty important as well that's been a big issue so he's definitely a lightning rod for a lot of very hot button issues in America that may also have had something to do with the International Tennis Hall of Fame board's decision not to do that You know, I guess what this brings up is like a very is another sort of much larger issue that goes across tennis, which is like, you know, where do you draw the line with tradeoffs if people are willing to give lots of money and want something in return for it?

1:16:35And like the best corollary I would draw to it is, you know, legacy admissions at prestigious and selective universities where, you know, rich people give tens of millions of dollars and put their name on a library. And, you know, they're arguably less than qualified children and grandchildren get to attend that university. and you know you can say a that's horrible um and why should they get that admission but then there's there's people who argue who would say you know and i've heard people like who you would expect to take that side of it's horrible who then say yeah what's the big deal we let a couple of ding-dongs in and we get a new library or you know we get some more endowed professorship so like we'll let the ding-dongs in so like yeah we let we let bill ackman play a stupid doubles match and embarrass himself on there and the jtcc ends up with 10 million dollars that they can you know give use to provide more access to kids playing tennis and i'm not saying i advocate that position i'm saying i could like argue both sides of it and so but at the same time i think generally like it's pretty distasteful having a billionaire by his way into you know a tour or a challenger tour event that way he's the lack would not qualify to be playing you know the doubles at the 125 in newport clearly yeah i thought the whole thing was pretty pathetic really i mean he's he's also like massively funding the ptpa isn't he which you know looks out for player interest and earning opportunities and there that there he is taking up a spot in the draw that that someone else could be using and jack sock jack sock's spot as well could have gone to someone else and yeah i just think the tournament and the hall of fame kind of degraded itself really by by allowing this this to happen and also like the atp has a thing in its rule book about best efforts and Bill Ackman I think was giving his best effort in that match but no one else on the court was you know to make the scoreline it was no professional tennis match no um other news this week British tennis player Tara Moore has been given a four-year doping ban.

1:19:20She had been cleared by an independent tribunal 18 months ago, but an appeal by the ITIA has been upheld by CAS, the Court of Arbitration for Sport. The ban starts immediately, but will be reduced by the 19 months that Tara Moore was provisionally suspended for when the case first came to light. In May 2022, she tested positive for nandrolone and bouldernone at a tournament in Bogota, Colombia. So it was in December of the following year, 2023, that an independent tribunal ruled that contaminated meat was the source of the positive test and that Tara Moore bore no fault or negligence. She said that she suffered 19 months of lost time and emotional distress and her reputation had been damaged as a result.

1:20:11She returned to the tour in April 2024 and has mostly played on the ITF tour since then. But this case was taken to CAS by the ITIA. There was a hearing in March and the case has been upheld by CAS, the ITIA's case. She's received the subsequent ban and she will now not be free to play again until the start of the 2028 season. They said after reviewing the scientific and legal evidence, the majority of the CAS panel considered that the player did not succeed in proving that the concentration of nandrolone in her sample was consistent with the ingestion of contaminated meat. The panel concluded that Ms Moore failed to establish that the ADRV, the anti-doping rule violation, was not intentional.

1:20:59The appeal by the ITA is therefore upheld and the decision rendered by the independent tribunal is set aside.

1:21:10Look, it's grist to the mill for people, commentators, players that are outraged and upset and concerned about the inequality in handling of cases like this. Whatever you think of the eventual verdict, the length of time the process has taken to reach this verdict, a case that bears some similarities to Yannick Sinner's case, which of course was settled relatively quickly and harmlessly, certainly relative to this. Now, I'm not saying they're the same case. It has been ruled by Cass that it's a very different situation and it's not a no fault or negligence case. But certainly the length of time this all has taken, which has been a consistent complaint of Tara Moore's, does seem to shed light on a deep inequality in the situation.

1:22:09The same inequality, though, that exists within the general justice system, which is that the type of justice that you receive very much depends on the money and the power you have to throw behind your defense. But nonetheless, this is a it's been a it's been a sorry old tale from start to finish. really much. Yeah, I think the big issue is the, you know, right now we're in a situation where there is just a very, a great emphasis on the levels of, you know, the levels of substance that are found in these tests that are taken at a certain time. And I think that's what the case largely turned on was that the level of, that was found in her blood was just not consistent with, you know in their view and in their scientist view and in the view of the majority of the panel the uh with unintentional use or with a meat contamination and you know whereas with igish fiatak and with sinner the levels in their blood was consistent with what they have determined to be unintentional use.

1:23:26And, you know, it's one of those things where, like, if you believe in those numbers and you believe the scientists, then it's a completely justified decision. You know, but not everybody believes in those numbers and that idea. And I don't know enough about contaminated meat to know whether all pieces of contaminated meat are contaminated equally. Safe to say I don't know enough about contaminated meat either, Matt, to get lost in those weeds with you. Last bit of news. Well, last bit of news that Matt has put in the agenda, but I am going to insert an extra bullet point on the end here. But last bit of news from the agenda is that Anz Jaber has announced she's taking a step back from tennis.

1:24:19She said, for the past two years, I've been pushing myself so hard, fighting through injuries and facing many other challenges. But deep down, I haven't felt happy on court for some time now. Tennis is such a beautiful sport. But right now, I feel it's time to take a step back and finally put myself first to breathe, to heal and to rediscover the joy of simply living. And as somebody that interviewed Anastra Bird during Wimbledon for a Friends episode for one of our interviews in our Wimbledon edition of The Tennis Podcast Meets, as sad as that statement is I was quite relieved to see it because she was somebody so clearly unhappy um to have to a quite distressing extent to witness and hear really during Wimbledon so I'm glad she's she's making a change and striving for that happiness and I hope one day she can find it on the court again but if she doesn't I hope she finds it somewhere um so it's it's sad that it's come to this but i wish her well i really really wish her well um and just to end our news section on a positive note i'm going to insert the bullet point that andy murray has hard launched his new dog quite right uh we knew about this we knew about this because he had mentioned it during one of his live shows and we had spies in the audience well no we just knew people that had been to them and they reported back to us amongst other things Andy Murray has a new dog but he he hadn't launched the dog publicly he has now done that on Instagram with photos but no name is reported and no no breed has been reported either so I'm I'm left trying to diagnose the breed using my own dog breed diagnosis skills I think maybe a flat coated retriever of some kind at first I thought cocker spaniel but I think it's a bit bigger than a cocker spaniel especially as look it's hard because I don't I don't know this dog's age I don't know its name I don't know its gender I don't I need more information Andy I'm very pleased for you and I'm pleased for the tennis dog crossover world but please stop withholding the essential information.

1:26:37That's my... Well, soon your dog, Billie Jean and Andy's dog will be able to, you know, frolic in the new 30-acre park in Wimbledon. Yes. It's going to be building for you. So there you go. Maybe that's where you'll be able to get all of your information from. Fingers crossed. That's it for part two. Join us in part three for a look ahead to This Week in Tennis in Canada.

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1:28:01quality of the ingredients. Shop back to school must-haves at Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

1:28:13Welcome back to part three of the Tennis Podcast where we turn our attention to Canada and the WTA event which happens this year in Montreal and the ATP event which happens in Toronto. Of course they've both begun already. I can tell you that because I was up at two o 'clock in the morning watching Bianca Andreescu heartbreak. And it really was heartbreak. I mean, she won her match against Barbora Krejcikova, was playing incredibly well. It was a throwback. The crowd were behind her. She was come oning all over the place. I was getting lured in despite promising myself I wouldn't get lured in and get hopeful about Bianca Andreescu.

1:28:55But there I was, two o 'clock in the morning. I was all in. And she stands up to the line on match point and she rolls her ankle on match point. And all you hear is just agonising screams and wails. It was an absolutely horrifying sight and sound. There was a long break. She had her ankle taped up. She somehow finished the match. and I actually do wonder if Barbora Krejcikova, maybe not even consciously, deliberately, but on some level deliberately hit two unforced errors because unforced errors from Krejcikova really felt like the only way Andreescu was going to be winning that match. She could not move at all and Krejcikova was incredibly generous to her, immediately came over to her side of the court and was very, very concerned about her.

1:29:49So look, I don't know. Andreescu is, she's through to the next round. She's due to be facing Mirandreva, but she was sobbing in her post-match interview. It was a very, very tough scene. So, look, you don't know with ankle rolls, do you, until the next day? You don't really know what the lie of the land is. But it didn't look and sound good to me. So that's your Bianca Andreescu update. Marketa Vondroshova, Daniel Collins, they've already won in Montreal. We've got Vasek Pospisil playing his last match and Eugenie Bouchard playing her last match. I would say those two events are columns in the let's get rid of wild cards column, personally.

1:30:42But maybe the ticket buyers of Toronto and Montreal feel differently. Bouchard another pickleball player like the like the aforementioned Jack Sock yeah I think it was just one of the like with a situation where someone you get an alert on your phone that someone has died and you're sort of like were they not dead already okay it's when I saw Jeannie Bouchard was retiring I was sort of like Really? What you've done? What? She was an active player? Yeah. Really?

1:31:24Yeah, very good. Montreal, we have two-time defending champion Jessica Pagula going for the three-peat. We've got no Sabalenka, and that means that Coco Goff is the top seed. Shontek is the second seed. The projected quarterfinals, according to the draw, are Goff against Paulini and Draver against Navarro. Anna Samova against Pagula and Keyes against Svjantek in Toronto. Matt, my surprise at being reminded that Alexey Poparin is the defending Canadian champion. The tennis world moves quickly, doesn't it? I did check with two different sources and can confirm that Alexey Poparin is the defending champion.

1:32:08I have so few memories of Alexey Poparin winning Canada last year. but well done to him. So we have Popperin defending his title. There's no Yannick Sinner, no Carlos Albright. I mean, he might defend it because... Right, nobody else is there. It's him and Vasek Pospisil. He's out. It's him and Facundo Bagnis. Oh, is that it? Pospisil's career has come to an official end. Okay, Facundo Bagnis or Alexey Popperin, pick your poison. No Jack Draper either. So projected quarterfinals, Osverev against Runa, Muzetti against Ruud, Tiafoe against Shelton and Rublev against Fritz. The finals are on Thursday, the 7th of August, of course.

1:32:55Why wouldn't they be on a Thursday? We'll be back with a show next Monday, the 4th of August with David. And then our review show of Toronto and Montreal following that final will be on Friday, the 8th of August. And as with all our post combined 1000 event shows, that one will be live on YouTube. So that'll be 8pm UK time on the evening of Friday, the 8th of August. You pumped about Canada, Matt? A Thursday final? They just don't think of our schedule, do they? When they cook up these tournaments. like we're having to do such a rejig but it's fine yeah it's fine we'll we're gonna podcast our way through it but it is awkward for us yeah look um am i excited about it look look actually the montreal draw is is pretty stacked there's no there's no sabalenka but most of the most of the other women are there so i'm excited for that um i like i like the montreal toronto you know getting two cities um it just used to be so good when you know it was a week i i do struggle to get that excited about it because i know there's a whole lot of nothing but yes i i will i will be excited at points i can i can promise you that yeah matt fotteman excitement levels i just want to be like the one who have been in the room when they were like going through the calendar and like trying to organize it and they came up with this and someone and they were like yeah this works right and like like they somehow like there's like was there not like was there not like a couple of people in the room who are like wait no no this is the most fucked up thing in the world Like this works, this works in no shape or form.

1:35:00Like these are two big tournaments, one starting before the other one finishes like two days before. Like, where are we? This is so confusing. These are supposed to be the tentpole events of the summer. Like what, what are we doing? And yeah, so it would have, I mean, if anything was the absurdity, pointed out the absurdity of the schedule's messed up there's not enough days there's this is stupid here we are pretty excited then i think matt yeah this is stupid here we are well done tennis i would say i'm most excited but i mean like yeah montreal i mean any wta event these days is stacked like i just think there are so many good players and like washington was like the perfect example is like Zachary and Radicano and like the Radicano and like the early was like wow you know like that's a hard match you know Osaka Radicano early like there was a lot of early hard matches so they're all stacked and Montreal will be I mean Toronto will be what it'll be it'll be competitive there'll be people trying really hard to win a lot of money in a good trophy right well i hope that's whetted everybody's appetite for the uh for the week ahead matt uh thank you for those those levels of uh of excitement um no no thank you very much your contributions this week fascinating fascinating as always uh and we'll be seeing you in we fly to new york three weeks today during during the cincinnati final of course because tennis.

1:36:49So you will be here for the mixed doubles. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We don't miss any official Grand Slam event, Matt. You're going to bring your airline sick bag. Yes. Right. I love that in the graphics for the announcement, the US Open official graphics on Instagram, it actually says at the top, official Grand Slam event. I really feel like if you're having to point that out, a battle has been lost somewhere along the line. Yeah. And then they're going to point to this two-pack stadiums of, like, screaming people, and they're going to declare victory. And it's going to be hard to argue with them. Yeah.

1:37:38Hello to our mascots. Hello to Phoebe, to Maisie, and to Roger. Hello to Greg, Chris and Jeff, our top folks and executive producers. We are, of course, part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Check out Matt's work. Check out Charlie's work. Check out everything they have to offer in the Athletic. We will be back this week on Thursday for a live show for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. We'll be back on Monday, a week today, Monday the 4th of August with a show as normal with David. And then we'll be back a week on Friday, Friday the 8th of August with our wrap of Canada. live on YouTube at 8 p.m.

1:38:14UK time. Not complicated at all. Thank you, Tennis, for being oh so simple with your calendar. Thank you, Matt, for being on today's show. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you soon.

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