WTA semis set - who wins it all?

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1:26Well hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is Thursday evening here in the UK. The WTA finals in Riyadh have reached the end of their group stage. Round Robin tennis is over for now. Matt Roberts rejoices, although he might have come round to Ram Robin tennis. More of that to come. We're here to look back on the Ram Robin stages and to look ahead at what's potentially to come in the semifinals and finals. Matt, how are you doing? Very well, thank you. It's been quite a busy 48 hours in tennis podcast world. More on that later. but I have had time to track Amanda Nisimova getting through the group stages in the WTA finals and setting up a repeat of the US Open final as we heard Marnie there in the intro live from the US Open a few weeks ago.

2:29So somehow it all works. A very, very appropriate intro today from Marnie. I love the name Marnie. and thank you for that intro, Marnie. And thank you for that little tease, Matt. You've done my job for me. Yes, do stay tuned, folks, for a very exciting announcement at the end of this show. David, how are you doing? I'm really well. I'm really well. And I'm enjoying seeing things looking a little brighter on the predictions front, given we had a bad start and maybe we didn't know, we didn't have a bad start. It looked like it might be a bad start. It's ended up good. And I'm actually really pumped for the semifinals and I think particularly Sabalenka against Anisimova because I think we've seen this situation before now with Shviontek and Anisimova playing sort of a slam final and a result going the way of the favoured player.

3:36And then Inisimova sort of regrouping. And I want to see if that happens here. You know, I know it's not a grand slam, but it's big. And I'm really pumped. Yeah, we're going to lead with Amanda Inisimova. Luckily, David has already written the rulebook on how you... The road to gloating with predictions. The rocky road from potential humiliation to gloating that you intrepidly trodged with Naomi Osaka during the US Open, David. One of many. Talk us through it once again. I can't exactly remember. Stage one is making the outlandish prediction, obviously. And then there's the... You'll have heard us do that, avid listeners.

4:25We all went all in on Amanda Anisimova to win the W3 finals. I do sometimes make these things completely on the spur of the moment without honestly having given it maybe as much thought as I should. I sometimes do go with gut. But I do kind of trust my gut, you know. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But yes, basically you have to make the prediction and stand there and just not back down. Then you have to hope they perform sufficiently well that you avoid humiliation. avoiding humiliation folks stage one yes wasn't looking good um no no we were we were a loss to madison keys and uh a set and a break no sorry we were a loss to elena rabatkin a a one-sided loss and a set and a breakdown to injured madison keys and the road really was rocky folks that's right And I would say that stage two is silencing your doubters, of which there were many over Naomi Osaka.

5:32And it was really the win over Coco Gauff for Naomi Osaka that did the trick in terms of silencing the doubters. Then you're in comfortable territory. Nobody can get at you anymore, right? The fact that she didn't win the thing. But you're not at gloating level. and gloating is the ultimate. So that's what we're after. We're after Anisimova winning. I mean, look, obviously I don't mind who wins out of these four players. I just want Anisimova to be so that I can gloat. Yeah, our credibility minds a bit, David. Yeah, so basically we're at stage two. Correct. We and Amanda Anisimova are silencing the doubters and that is because Amanda Anisimova is through to the semifinals where she will face Irina Sabalenka.

6:23Sabalenka coming through the Steffi Graf group along with Jessica Pagula. We'll talk about that in part one. Let's start with the Serena Williams group where we have Amanda Inisimova and Elena Rabakina progressing through the group. Rabakina progressing in beautiful form and in first place in the group. But we're going to lead with Amanda Inisimova. And in fact, her victory over Igor Shvontek yesterday to seal qualification for the semi-finals. By far the best match at the tournament so far in terms of quality. I know at that stage that was not a high bar to clear. It's still not that high a bar to clear, but this was a fantastic match and more evidence, Matt.

7:09I know we don't need any more at this point. The point is proven. We know who Amanda Anasimova is now. but if you needed any more evidence of her resilience well it was there in this match once again she's so good she is she's so good and and so resilient yes because you sound so relieved that she's good well i've been saying it for years but now she actually is and it's just so pleasing good under pressure as well isn't she good under sort of you know when you've got a lot that is making you maybe question yourself and reason to doubt. And yet she's she's proven that she's she's got it in her to fight through those moments and really start to hit the ground.

8:01Yeah, exactly. Because as you said, I think this was the only match we've had so far where it was. Straight winner takes all, you know, like we had Gough Sabalenka today, which was almost that. but there was a set equation in there and it could have got complicated but Svjantek and Isimova was the losers going home and the winners going through it was as simple as that and I just think that really did help to elevate the match and make the stakes clear and it was I think the best quality match we've had from start to finish because I'm sure we'll talk more about Igor Svjantek's loss to Elena Rabakina where again she won the first set but then got totally blown away and totally went off the rails in that match.

8:49This was not like that. This was sustained quality throughout. A really good start from both players, you know, where breaks of serve were so hard to come by. They were both holding serve. And Igor Svantec won it in a first set tie break and was brilliant. You know, really good in that tie break, having fended off some break points at the end of that set. and then Svantec has break points at the start of the second set which I think is exactly what David's describing there of Anissimov under pressure having to deliver and she did you know she stepped up she saved those break points Svantec missed a second serve return on one of them which will be a regret but otherwise Anissimov saved them and then even at a set down to Igor Svantec one of the great front runners that this sport has seen and this Samova digs in and she's got her teeth into a match.

9:45She started striking the ball like we know she can and she believes and she brings it and she levels it up and then she just goes off into the distance in that third set and again has to fight through a tough moment saving a break point at 4-2 but just has too much, you know, off both wings. I'm always going on about the backhand but the forehand stepped up as well and we saw that on the match point where she'd been hitting those returns inside out so well, all match, but this time she hits it sort of inside in and Fiontek's rooted to the baseline. She can't read it. And that's the match. And Anissimova now moves to 15 and three in deciding sets this year.

10:30It's Kainashikori levels of remarkable deciding set record. And yeah, once she's found her range, once she's in a match and is fighting and showing that resilience. She's just proven to be so goddamn good this year. And we saw it again. And yeah, the narrative, of course, of her against Fiontech is always going to be rooted in sort of coming back from that Wimbledon final double bagel. And now she's beaten her twice in a row. And I don't think Fiontech played poorly in this one. I really don't. I think, you know, she's not at her absolute best, but Anissa Mova took that from her. and yeah, it was outstanding.

11:12Did Jontek play poorly against Elena Rabakina? I mean, the answer surely has to be yes for most of the match. She lost 12 games in a row in this match. This wasn't just letting go of a lead and losing from a winning position against a great player. This was a total collapse out of nowhere, was it not? yeah a bit like we've um seen earlier this year if you think about it as well when you think of some of the ones in the spring on the clay when she would sort of you know have an okay start and then it would just suddenly go away dramatically or she would lose an opening set incredibly one-sidedly i mean it's just not what we've we're used to and it's made for the most interesting year of her career in many ways because she has been very successful I mean she's won Wimbledon she's she's been in other big tournament latter stages and and looking kind of like herself and and then also this new version of herself which at the same time is almost like an old version of herself because I was reading Matt Futterman's article in The Athletic today where he's talking about how she's continually trying with Wimforsett to reintroduce the variety, not just the stand toe-to-toe tennis of Thomas Witkowalski.

12:35She wants to have more to her game. But it is a big ask, that, isn't it? And I think then you come up against a player like Rybakina, who has kind of one way to play. She is coming for you, and we know that big hitters have hurt Svantec in the past. And unless Svantec is bang on it against that ball it probably is really tough to counter yeah it it concludes a season for Sviante that I am struggling to make sense of it you know like really a lot of the things we thought we knew about Igor Sviante kind of the opposite happened this year and and that makes it really compelling for us as as viewers and observers and analysts of the sport but But yeah, difficult to get your head around.

13:26And I think David's right. There has been a big process of unlearning that she's going through with this new coach, Wim Verset, who wants her to play a bit more like she used to play. But I think in some of her toughest defeats, she's reverted back to type and been a bit guilty of losing patience and overhitting. And I think we really did see that the other day against Rabatkinner. You know, I mean, she just disappeared from that match, Igor Svante. You know, it was really tight. I think the second set was maybe a bit tighter than it seems. You know, I know 6-1, but like some of those games, it was a little bit, you know, it still felt like a match.

14:09Whereas in the third set, it didn't. And a lot of that was Rabatkinner serving brilliantly, playing, I think, the best tennis that we've seen from anyone in this tournament so far. but it was a slightly familiar Igor's Fiontek tale of lack of patience and yeah being really one-sidedly beaten in a set in a way that just didn't used to happen to her and we have seen that at numerous times this season and I think it is more likely to happen when she's tired and kind of at the end of end of her energy levels which she does seem to be right now So, you know, any year you win Wimbledon, and especially as Igor Fiontek, that feels like a sort of unimaginable high, really.

15:00It was the one that I really thought she might never win. So for her to tick that off this year, you have to say that is such a good achievement. But it does feel like the rest of the field's just caught up to her a little bit, you know, like she started to lose. I know she came into this tournament with the head-to-head lead over everyone in the field, or at least an even record. But I think a lot of that was historic and maybe helped by some of her clay court success as well. I think if you look at it now, she's lost a couple in a row to Anissimova. She's lost three in a row to Goff. She's lost two in a row to Sabalenka.

15:32She's lost her most recent match against Rebecca now, her most recent match against Paolini. Like the rest of the top players have slightly caught up to Igor Svjantek, I think. And this year has, yeah, has just sort of demonstrated that. Even though she's still been right there with them most of the way. Do you think she'd have signed for this season at the start of 2025? Some people think that's a ludicrous question. She won Wimbledon, as you say, Matt. That is something she might have wondered if she'd have ever done, ever get to do in her career. And yet, there's a part of me that thinks she's the kind of character that...

16:13She's not number one. She hasn't been the best player this season. And I think she's so ambitious and ruthless and dedicated that finishing the season not at number one is not what she was aiming for at the start of this year. I'm not sure she would have signed for it. I don't know. What do you think?

16:38I don't know. It is an impossible question. Wimbledon's so big. Wimbledon is huge she won Wimbledon I think she signed for that it's enormous isn't it and I think I don't know her and it is guesswork but I sense that she would be frustrated and surprised at some of the inconsistency within matches the way that she lost those one-sided sets. I think that that would be like, really? Did I do that? But then to suddenly put together that sort of form to win Wimbledon and have that high. I often think with questions like that, players usually would say no to something at the start of it because they would think that they could do more than what they ended up with.

17:35I've heard that. I remember Roger Federer in the interview, sorry for the name drop, I did with him in 2010 when I put to him how many Grand Slams he'd won over, or if I offered you this many Grand Slams over the next five years, would you take it right now? I remember asking him that in 2010. I think I said, if I offered you three more over the next, maybe three more over the next five years, I think it was, or something like that. And he said, and that would take him past the record, I think it was. I can't exactly remember the numbers. But I remember he just said, no, I'd want to win more. Because I have won two or three a year.

18:12That's what I'm used to, basically. And I think that not winning Raleigh Garras is probably quite hard for Iga Schvantek to accept because that's something she does. Even though she knows it's really tough and there's a lot of competition out there and she doesn't assume stuff. But it is an interesting season and I wonder how she will go into the next one to try to improve things. Yeah. I'm in no way suggesting it's been a bad season. I just, you know, circling back to the original words that Matt said, it's been a weird season for Iga Shontek. Really weird season. We haven't really talked about Elena Rabacno, who's probably the woman that deserves the most plaudits from this Serena Williams group.

19:05Talk about rediscovering form, David. I mean, this looks close to peak Rabakina right now. She has been absolutely awesome in Riyadh so far. Yeah, she's been searching for this all year. This feeling of security, I think, from the baseline, knowing what's coming off a racket. We know how good her serve is when it's on. It's the best. You know, you talk to Goran Ivanovic when he worked with her. You listen to Andy Roddick. these are people that know serving and and they rate her serve above all other in the game right now and it's the way she just rolls her arm over and the points over you know just just i mean i know there's more to it than that but that's what it looks like and then this the reaction when it actually comes off the strings the sound of it i mean it's it's awesome um to behold it's it's top level tennis this and you know you look at them now on on paper she's you would not be surprised if she ended up actually winning it i know we picked anissom over but i was really taken aback by the level against anissom over and i realize she's improved since then but blimey if rebecca keeps this up she'll take some stopping the one to beat matt elena rebecca based on form so far yes like i do think she's playing the best tennis here i just don't know whether she's answered the question that i've had about her this year which is kind of with regards to i guess the clutch gene you know like we've seen a lot of we're back in her matches where she's been in winning positions and not been able to close and i just feel like there's been a lot of baggage over the last year or so accumulated there she hasn't really needed to flex that muscle this is a extended metaphor that is not working but i'm enjoying it press on you get what i'm saying she hasn't really needed to be clutch this tournament so far because she's been so good and been so dominant you know other than losing that one set to igas viontech she's been absolutely imperious so far but i i just think when it gets close if if the players left in this draw can make it close you know i'm probably backing sabalenka or i'm backing anisa mova see previous discussion about her three set record form you You know, like it's just whether anyone can make it close, you know.

21:47And I just have to think that there might be a level drop to come from Rebecca. Because that kind of has been the pattern of of her last couple of years. You know, there's a reason she hasn't been winning the biggest titles. And like a lot of it is form and she's got that form right now. But I think there's just something a bit more to it as well. So I think she's playing the best tennis. but I think I'm probably backing maybe all of the others in terms of that real match toughness and ability to just get over the line at a kind of bigger event. So she feels like the favourite right now because she's playing so well but things can change, I suppose.

22:32And now we're not in round robin. It's like the traitors. You've got to come through a test. Right, exactly. She hasn't come through a test at the round table. Yeah. She's Alan Carr. It's the comparison everyone has always thought. Elena Ravakina, Alan Carr. Just like Alan Carr, so far, the Traitors finale starts in an hour and 51 minutes here in the UK, as we record. So far, undefeated. She beat Igor Shontek, that comeback win. She dismissed Amanda Anissamova in her opening match. And then she faced Ekaterina Alexandrova in her third match. Alexandrovic, the second alternate. Did anybody know that Katarina Alexandrovic was lurking in Riyadh?

23:16I certainly didn't. Mirandreva was the first alternate. She's obviously playing in the doubles, elected not to come in and play the singles when given the opportunity. And I get that. There's a difference between being fit to play singles and fit to play doubles. That's absolutely her right. And I kind of, I really, I think I respect that decision from Mirandreva. So in comes Ekaterina Alexandrovich making an unexpected appearance and actually putting up a decent show, but being overpowered by the brilliant Elena Rabachina as she has been so far. So it'll be Rabachina against Pagula in the semifinals and Sabalenka against Alice Amova.

23:59We'll talk about those two and how they made their way through the Steffi Graf group in part two. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time, and their scale gives them a serious edge.

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26:54Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where we turn our attention now to the Stephanie Graff group. Apparently, Steffi Graff and Serena Williams are a couplet in this particular context because they've both won five WTA finals titles. That is how those two group names have been arrived at. There you go. This group has been won by the world number one. She collected her year-end number one trophy this week and she has progressed through the groups unscathed. It is, of course, Irina Sabalenka. The key match for her in this group, the three-set win over Jessica Pagula, a much-needed, decent quality match.

27:42The first really competitive, good quality match of these finals. 6-4, 2-6, 6-3. And yeah, unlike Alan Carr and Elena Rabakina, Irina Sabalenka has been tested, Matt. Yeah, she has, because as you said, Pagula, Sabalenka, like at the moment, a really reliable matchup in terms of generating pretty good matches. I didn't think this was as high quality as Sviontek and Nisimova, but it was competitive. and Sabalenka really did that thing of stepping up when she needed to. You know, she sort of really went away in that second set, but some of the shot-making in that third set, particularly with backhands down the line on the run, you know, it seemed to be a shot that she kept coming up with time and time again, and in crucial moments, just stepping up.

28:40And she's sort of done that a lot against Jessica Pagula. You know, Pagula's right there with her, but Sabalenka just has a gear a level that Pagula doesn't quite have I think and Sabalenka seems to be able to to find it most of the time obviously Pagula got her in in Wuhan just a couple of weeks ago but most of the time Sabalenka just seems to be able to raise it enough but yeah I really do I really do like the way they're they're matching up against each other right now it was it was not it was not a straightforward match at all for Sabalenka there was a lot of angst her her coach Dubrov left left the box during the match and you know there was that you know it's clearly some sort of tough emotions out there but she got through it and then you know speaking of tough emotions I was having real flashbacks to June and Roland Garros watching her slowly descend into madness just now against Coco Gough as it seemed to be happening again in that first set.

29:48And, you know, she was eye rolling and sighing and the shoulders were slumping and she was contorting her face in all sorts of frustrated expressions and slamming the ball down. She was having an awful time. Yeah. Awful. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I don't know how she won that set. I mean, I do because she's brilliant, but God, she was hating it. Yeah. You know, Goff was four, was four, two up, had two break points to go, a double break up. She served for the set Goff at five, four. She was 30 love up. And then Sabalenka won eight points in a row and did so with some brilliant tennis. You know, there was one point where she came forward.

30:35good there's a brilliant forehand uh pass sort of up the line some big serving in there as well just brilliant stuff and then we landed in the tie break and look i know sabalenka did lose that tie break to to jessica bagula the other day but she's still so good in these tie breaks and then again she was down in it but stepped it up and mounted the comeback and i'm so impressed with that by Sabalenka you know like you know Gough was gunning for her in that first set because Gough pretty much knew I think that she needed to win in straights to get through and she just withstood Gough who was playing well in that first set and all the flashbacks and emotions that comes from that matchup I think and she just kept it together and then raised her level when she needed to and then race clear in that second set that was a that was a strong effort from Sabalenka today i thought one of my favorite things about her is when she gets upset and is clearly bothered by her own form by the circumstances she's having it looks like she's having a terrible time and yet she can still play and she can sometimes it can go off i mean we've seen it in those matches against coco golf actually usually and i think this is maybe a big one that that she's sort of weathered it this time.

31:57But, you know, she just... Any other player, you would kind of think, oh, well, she's not going to be able to focus on the next point after that. And yet she does. She just grips the racket even more ferociously and goes after it. I love it. Did you see Irina Savalenka's return position in that second set? Billie Jean did. it was like you know Gav McMillan is sat there on the sidelines the bloke you know Rina Sabalenka's ex-coach that Coco got poached in order to bring in and fix her serve I know there's no beef between those two I've seen the tiktoks I know it's all fine but I also saw where Sabalenka was standing to return that serve and it was a dismissive return position it was way inside the baseline It was, oh, you brought him in to fix your serve, did you?

32:55That's gone well, hasn't it? That's what that return position was saying. And look, her serve wasn't nearly as bad today or in the second match as it was in her first match against Jessica Pagula. I think she took a bit of pace off it today, was my sense. Went back to a sort of slightly more US Open-y approach. But yeah, I think Coco Goff, as great a competitor as she is, as much as she loves the sport and being out there and getting her teeth stuck in, I think she's ready for the end of the season, Matt. I think she's okay with not having a match to play tomorrow, put it that way. Yeah, I think so.

33:40And that's probably really important to remember that, right? I feel like so often we talk about players experiencing burnout, but actually Coco Goff probably isn't top of that list for me. I don't often think of her necessarily as one of those players, but I think it comes to pretty much everyone. And when you're having the struggles that she's had with her game as well, I feel like almost every match she's played this year has been some sort of ordeal or mentally exhausting or challenging. You know, she's been battling herself as much as her own opponent at times. And I think that must be tiring.

34:23And she's already made it very clear how she sees this time of the season. You know, she's had some great success in the post-US Open period. Some of her biggest successes have been in the post-US Open period with a slightly different mindset. But she's had that success because she DGAF, apparently. Right. So I think that combined with tiredness, combined with the struggles with the game, like even sort of superhuman Coco Gauff is going to feel it eventually. And yeah, it does feel like she's been ready for the end of the season. Jessica Bagula threw in second place in this Steffi Graf group. So she will play Elena Rabatkin in the semifinals.

35:11I mean, she must be ready for the end of the season as well, Pagula. She just keeps going, doesn't she? I know it's sort of such a tired take to say Jessica Pagula is underrated, but I'm going to say it because I think I underrate Jessica Pagula. I really do. Like she's some player and some competitor and a real credit to the sport. She always leaves it all out there. She's a real credit to the sport. You wouldn't catch me under 18, anybody.

35:48But Jessica Bagula, I actually, I do think. You know what, David? This was a big week for Jasmine Paolini being a good draw. well yes because she did very well I mean I think Pagula's eight previous wins had been in deciding sets and then today along comes poor Jasmine Paolini and finally Pagula manages a straight sets win yeah I think maybe David could have got a straight sets win over Jasmine Paolini poor Jasmine's not been well has she and they had run out of alternates so I don't know bless her she keeps on going yeah incredible but i did you know to answer your question i mean i do think i do think we are guilty probably because the type of player she is of damning her with faint praise a little bit you know and i i'd like to think some of that has changed the last few months it is not only is it a great example of somebody who just doesn't quit doesn't doesn't sort of have an off button really.

36:56Once she decides to go for it, she gives you a performance pretty much all the time. There was, you know, that one a few years ago when she was on empty, but what she's done this, this autumn fall, as they call it, is unreal to me. Because when the season, the Grand Slam season ends, I think it is so normal for these top players to have a bit of a dip or to wonder whether they can be that bothered when they've done as much as they already have. And she just, there's not been a bit of that from her. She's been one of the players of this swing. All these three-set matches, just digging in, great matches, sometimes uncharacteristic-type matches as well, where she kind of chokes a bit or she saves loads and loads of match points, and yet she's still winning.

37:47um i actually love watching her matches against these big hitters um watching her figure it out because she's she's kind of a counter-punching big hitter she's not stand and deliver knock you off the court power but she can retaliate um and yeah it's fantastic the fact that she's so often in this position and and i think i've wondered with pagula you know she's kind of older than you think because because she's only really been like a top player kind of since the pandemic really I think it's I think it's easy to think of her as in the same age bracket as some of these players that she's been really consistent alongside over the last few years but she is quite a lot older than them and I had to start to wonder whether there was going you know whether that sort of decline was going to come and I think in particular her Grand Slam results this year certainly the first few slams of the year when she lost to Boisson and Coxieretto over Roland Garros and Wimbledon looking back now I think at the time they felt like disappointing losses but I did wonder whether they were part of a bigger picture of maybe maybe a bit of Jessica Bergoula decline but she's just been so good over the last few months she's just sort of made that not the case and made me really feel confident that she still can compete with the very, very best players in the world because she herself is one of the very best players in the world.

39:20And I think when she reflects on her season, she will be disappointed by her slam results generally. But this little portion of the season post-US Open has sort of reaffirmed my belief that actually she's not going anywhere yet. You know, she still is right up there with the best of them and potentially capable of even winning this tournament. She's so good.

39:48OK, well, that's round robin over. Matt, you can breathe a sigh of relief. No, I love it. I love round robin. It allows you to lose your first match and then win your next two and keep up a prediction. I've always said that. I've always loved it. OK, we will talk about the knockout matches in part three. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business.

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41:26Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. We have semifinals to talk about. we have Elena Rabachner against Jessica Pagula. What's the head-to-head here, Matt? Remind me what this match-up looks like. Well, we had it very recently in the Billie Jean King Cup and it did not look good for Jessica Pagula. Rabachner was in this form. She was absolutely unstoppable that day. I think Pagula was a bit sluggish. I think she'd arrived much later in Shenzhen. She didn't quite have it, whereas Rabatkinner was just on it and dismissive and so good. But that was a bit of an outlier because they hadn't actually played in a few years.

42:17I think that was their first match since 2023. But I did think it did demonstrate that it probably is on Rabatkinner's racket. and I think if she does play as well as she has, she's the favourite to win it. But as I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of a dip at some point from Rebecca. I think if there's not and she manages to keep up this level for all five matches, fair play. But I suppose I'm just sort of slightly banking on a dip and feeling like maybe someone will be able to capitalise on it. David, what have you got happening here?

42:59I think we're going to see, and there's some overwin, obviously, and I think we're going to see Rebecca in the final against her. The Billie Jean King Cup was indoors, wasn't it? Yeah.

43:17I'm just musing on what we talked about yesterday, Matt, about how little indoor tennis there is on the WTA tour. I hadn't quite fully sort of processed that. How, I mean, there's a fraction of the amount of the number of indoor tournaments in the WTA as there are to the ATP. All of those really fantastic European indoor tournaments, Antwerp, Basel, Vienna, Rotterdam earlier in the season, Paris of course that we just had the WTA does not have equivalents it has the odd lints that sort of thing and it's got these finals in Riyadh but it's a lot harder to say this player loves indoor conditions we know this player is fantastic indoors because we just don't have the data set like we do in men's tennis like we can absolutely unequivocally say Felix Orgelius seem is the best version of himself indoors I don't have any hesitation to say that and I I can't think of a WCA player that I would be confident to say that about but the reason I'm mentioning it is because maybe Rabachner would be would be somebody that if we had a better data set might fall into that category it makes sense to me that she she likes it indoors yeah i i actually think the the rally types between these two are going to be really nice to watch indoors two flat piercing clean hitters of the ball like that um but but you're right i mean i think i think rebecca really would make hay if she was playing indoor tennis gore and even is if it used to love it and you know they had that little bit of time together she's got that serve can't be affected by the wind, scoots away off the surface, I tend to feel.

45:22So, yeah, I mean, unlike the Svantec game with the loads and loads of spin, I think that that game is blunted a little bit. The forehand is blunted a little bit indoors by comparison. So, yeah, it's going to be a cracking weekend, I think. Anisimova, Sabalenka, the rematch of possibly the best moment of Matt's year. Anisimova's victory over Sabalenka in that Wimbledon semi-final. Going to have the same result, Matt? Yeah. Look, Anisimova's always played well against Sabalenka, right? going back to their very early meetings. She's always, I think, felt comfortable in the matchup. And there was a little period when Sabalenka got a straight sets win over her in Australia last year, even at Roland Garros this year, where I thought, OK, Sabalenka's stepped up and has added layers to her game now with a bit of variety, some slice, the occasional drop shot to become more than just a big hitter that Anissimova can hit off the court.

46:36I felt like Sabalenka had improved that much that maybe she'd turn the tables on that matchup. But actually, I think Anisimova has countered that with her own improvements. And we saw that at Wimbledon. And even that US Open final, Anisimova was able to hurt Sabalenka at times. And I think that was mostly about the occasion and Sabalenka handling that better. I think Anissimova was nervous. That match was indoors, and Anissimova had a lot of trouble with the lights and the serving, and it got in her head and threw her off, and she didn't handle that all very well in the moment. Whereas Sabalenka, having played more of those big matches, I think did handle it better, and of course won that tiebreak in the second set, kept up her extraordinary tiebreak record.

47:29I guess what I'm saying is that it didn't feel like a matchup thing. you know the reason Sabalenka won it I think Anisimova matchup wise is comfortable against Sabalenka and yeah look now she's got her groove in the tournament now she's found her range I'm backing that tennis I'm backing Anisimova to to do it is there anyone in the world you don't back at an in the groove, in her groove, Anisimova. Is in her groove, Anisimova, the best player in the world? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, maybe that's deluded, but I think so. Look, I think there are certain exceptions, right? I think, you know, Igor Sviontek, Roland Garros, I think.

48:21You know, I'm not sure I would back an in the groove Anisimova against sort of peak Sviontek there. and look maybe like a peak Sabalenka in Australia you know where she's played so well I think at times but and I think you know she's the best hardcore player in the world Sabalenka for sure but the indoors element is is interesting because as you said we've got a much smaller data set there well wouldn't it be great to see her against Rebecca in the Rebecca in the final given what that first match looked like because if we did get an Anissmova kind of at her best having found a form in a final against Rabakina sustaining that form I that's one I find really difficult to pick David's just skipping over the semi-final there don't yeah just skimming over the world number one there David I think listen I think that that is going to be the final I may be wrong you You know, look, absolutely Sabalenka deserves massive respect and time.

49:21And, you know, I may just be saying what I want because I've predicted it. Sabalenka's beaten her before. She's also lost to her a lot before. So there's good reason for the prediction. It's just that I'm kind of curious to see a rematch of Anisimova-Ribakina with Anisimova being ready. Just apropos of not much at all, I don't think the year-end number one trophy should be a trophy. I think trophies are for winning tournaments. I think it should be something like a crown. Something else. Say the world number one. A medal. I quite like what they gave. I don't think it should be a trophy. When Simone Halep received a massive number one of flowers.

50:09Yes, of flowers. That was cool. Yeah. Great visual. Yes, it was visually great. I agree. And yeah, really remember those photos. Yes, I do like the idea of a crown or sitting on a throne or something. Yeah, come with me on this. Yeah, I could get on board with that. Let's call it a movement. I just think it's, I also think, you know, for casual fans, it's confusing. You know, you're scrolling social media or whatever, and you think that the WTA finals is on day three or whatever and up pops a picture of Sabalenka cradling a trophy. I think that's a bit confusing. I mean, ATP finals does it as well, don't they?

50:54Anyway, let's talk doubles. David, your moment in the sun, it cometh. Because Luisa Stefani is through to the semi-finals, as is the incredible Katerina Siniarkova. she secured the year-end number one for the fifth time, which levels Martina Navratilova for the most year-end number one finishes in WTA history. And she had an incredible dress at the WTA photo shoot, of which I will say nothing more. So she and Taylor Townsend won the Liesel Huber Group and will face Elisa Mertens and Veronica Kudomitova, who finished second in the Navratilova Group. and atop the Novatova group, it was Shei Suwei and Yelena Ostapenko.

51:43They will face Tamea Babos and what a player, Luisa Stefani. They came from a set down to beat defending champions Gabby Dabrowski and Erin Routliff in a straight shootout for the semi-finals. David, it's doubles corner. I tell you, I think I might have enjoyed the doubles more than the singles so far. even though the last couple of days it's fired up a bit in the singles but I've watched so many good doubles matches I mean I love the line up, obviously I'm watching every move of Luisa Stefani that I get the possible chance to do because I just love watching her play, I mean she's so dynamic as a doubles player, I've always thought that, she's everywhere and she's just infectious really when she's out there, great partners those two, Babos and Stefani I mean obviously they've got to the semifinals but in a tough group in a tough tournament it's not easy these players that beaten today you know Ratliff and Dubrovsky that is tough and you know to to to keep on digging in when you're maybe not as experienced at the sharp end of these tournaments as some of your opponents are um always love watching Townsend and Sinearchova um it's it's just great to see zest that these players still have at the end of the season, you know, and how much it means to them, you know, you can feel their energy you can feel like, that this is the pinnacle of some of these players' year and I would imagine that is the case really for Stefani and Babos and I am fascinated now to see them go up against Ostapenko and Shea, I mean come on, this is awesome Yeah, let's go.

53:35I'm very much here for that. And we will be here with a show on Saturday to talk about the last couple of days of the WTA finals. Those semifinals and finals. We'll know who has won the trophy in the singles. It will be a first time winner. That was guaranteed when Coco Gough went out of the tournament earlier today. Tenth consecutive year, it'll be a new champion of the WTA finals. It's kind of wild, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I don't have any takes on that stat. It's just enjoyable. Same. Make of it what you will. We will tell you who that champion is on Saturday and we'll talk about it. And we'll also talk about Lorenzo Mazzetti's quest in Athens.

54:25Two to go. Two to go. No, he struggled past a 40-year-old yesterday. 6-4 in the third against Amarinka. We were following those live scores and finding Lorenzo Mazzetti's misery awfully comical. But Novak Djokovic trucks on as well. He struggled past the, quote, surprisingly good Nuno Borges. That's how he described him in the on-court interview afterwards. When he spoke a bit of Greek, adding a new language to his arsenal, Novak Djokovic. So, yeah, we'll update you on how that's going on Saturday. He hasn't said whether he's going to play the Chiriniets, does he? No, the head of the Italian Tennis Federation announced, it was all very great, Tylee, announced that Novak Djokovic would be playing.

55:23Because, of course, he's in, you know, as it stands at the moment, he's in the field. Novak Djokovic then very quickly poured cold water on those quotes and said, I haven't said either way. I haven't made a decision. I'll let you know at the end of Athens. And Ranzo Mazzetti dropped to his knees. Yeah, we've got a we've got a slash in the in the draw. You know, we've got we've got an Orge Aliasim slash Mazzetti. Yeah. It's not great, is it? Yeah, we'll talk about that draw on Saturday and we still might not know who's in it on Saturday. When is the Athens final? I think the Athens final has to be Saturday, right?

56:07It has to end. It has to end before Turin. Not even the ATP could be that stupid. They have to put Lorenzo Mazzetti out of his misery.

56:17Maybe they'll just find a new tournament for Mazzetti to play. Well, the Davis Cup. If he doesn't, he's the talisman, isn't he? Still, he's got to play that, yeah.

56:30I'm sorry, Lorenzo, that I find your nightmare so damn comical. We'll talk about it on Saturday. It's going to be a packed show on Saturday. Buckle up. That is our next normal show. But it is not, David, our next show. No. Because we had a very busy day yesterday. Some busier than others. Some of us sat down all day looking at you, David Law. Yeah, yeah. I was sitting in my car for eight hours on what should have been a two-hour journey and eventually got there. But am I breaking this news or are you? Well, it was worth it in the end, wasn't it, David? because we have, dropping tomorrow, a surprise, special, in-depth interview with Jack Draper, the former world number four, formerly not that long ago.

57:28Obviously, he's been out of action since the US Open nursing this arm injury. We've obviously got an update on that. And frankly, all sorts of things. He was an incredibly open book. He approached us. He wanted to come on the show. He was prepared to talk about anything and everything. And we did for two hours yesterday at the podcast room in Barnes. And he pushed it back by three hours, was it? Because of David's encounter with the M40 motorway. Couldn't have been nicer or more accommodating about it. And it was a real pleasure to get to know Jack Draper better, get some of his pretty interesting, controversial maybe thoughts on the state of tennis at the moment and scheduling in particular.

58:20Pretty hot topic in the sport at the moment. He's very open about his thoughts on that. And we think the listeners are going to enjoy it, David. Yeah, I would have thought so. I mean, you know, I knew Jack a bit from the tennis tour, but I'd never spent two hours in his company like this. we've got to know him really over the last week and I really like him I really like him a lot and I think the person he is will come through in that conversation and I suspect a lot of people will go away thinking they like him too and that they're interested in what he's got to say about stuff I hope so because I think he's a top lad Yeah, it's been a bit of a whirlwind Matt but it's all been worth it which is very easy to say for the people that didn't spend eight hours on the M40 yesterday Yeah, exactly It was a tough day for me and yet I feel like David I just can't really even process eight hours in the car I don't quite know how you did that David It was quite extraordinary But yeah, it was a real pleasure to speak with Jack you know we're pumped when we get five minutes with a top player for tennis podcast meets you know like to get two hours of Jack Draper being so open and honest and reflective and as you said just a really easy person to to deal with in terms of of trying to get this interview arranged and then push back and yeah he was just great about it and you know we pushed him on some stuff and and he had a lot of interesting things to say.

1:00:06So I hope people will enjoy that. It'll be going up bright and early, first thing tomorrow, Friday morning, 7am UK time. So we hope you enjoy it. We'll be back on Saturday with our next normal show. We'll also reflect in a little bit more depth on some of the stuff that Jack's had to say and maybe some reaction to what Jack's had to say in the tennis world as well. We'll bring you that. and we'll talk about the WTA finals and the ATP finals and Lorenzo Mazzetti's hilarious quest. We also have a couple of shows for Friends of the Tennis Podcast next week as well. Apparently that is... We are gluttons for punishment.

1:00:51But we're very excited about these. We have our... Was that a deep inhale, Matt? It was a moment of, oh, my God, I'm going to the Wimbledon Library tomorrow. Are you? Yes, I'd forgotten due to everything else. Factors. Yeah, but I'm always excited to go to the River My Library, so it'll be great. You'll enjoy it when you get there because you're researching Bud Collins. He is the subject of our next edition of Tennis Relived. Matt's already done quite a lot of research into this show and he sent us, as he always does, the odd snippet in particular from Bud's book that he wrote at the end of the 1980s, I think, but an esteemed tennis voice and broadcaster for decades.

1:01:43The media room is named after him at the US Open and quite right too. He's one of the most iconic voices the sport has ever had. And yeah, to say that some of the lines that he wrote in that 1989 book could have been written today would be an understatement, really. Pretty incredible stuff. So that show will be coming next week for Friends of the Tennis podcast. We also have a Q &A show, a live Q &A show for Friends of the Pod on Wednesday. So if you, like us, can't get enough of the tennis podcast, then the link to Become a Friend is in our show notes. And we've also got lots of other pods coming your way next week.

1:02:25We'll be reviewing the group stages of the ATP finals. and then we have a live show after the final on the evening UK time of Sunday the 16th of November. Everyone feeling overwhelmed? Yep, great. I feel great. People so often say to me, oh, things must be quiet now the Grand Slam season's over and I'm always like, I don't know how to explain to you how busy November always is. Not when Jack Drape is sliding into your DMs. I love it. We have our wonderful mascots. Hello, Maisie. Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Roger. Hello, Greg, Chris and Geoff, our epic top folks and executive producers. Matt, let's have some shout-outs.

1:03:10We have Rebecca from California. Hello, Rebecca. Hi, Rebecca. Rebecca Marino. Nice. Good. From Canada. Yeah. And Rebecca... What do we know about Rebecca? Rebecca has an 80-pound white lab called Sammy, who loves to watch Grand Slam tennis on the TV with Rebecca. That's a big dog. Wow. How many pounds is Billie Jean? Ten?

1:03:48Itch? Yeah. Wow. OK, Sammy. Pretty keen to see some pictures of Sammy with other objects for scale. Yeah. Rebecca, thank you very much for that dog visual. Excellent. We've also got Noonie Tao. Hello, Noonie. Little bit like Nuno Borges, who I just watched lose to Novak Djokovic. A little bit. Any advances on Nuno? No. What do we know about Nuno? Nuno, I said Nuno there. Nuno is a long time listener and friend and says that we're their favourite podcast of all time. Nuno. She's lovely. That is absolutely lovely. Thank you. And finally, we have Tamara Tammy Gibson from Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

1:05:02Hello, Tammy. I've been to Fort Lauderdale. How was it? I don't think I have. Sunny. It was really sunny. OK, I'm in. On the water, sun, sea. What's not to like? Politics, maybe. And we've got a good little story here from Tamara. She says, in the mid-90s, I worked for the USTA Player Development in Key Biscayne. And when the Lipton tournament rolled in, the pros used our gym. And being that close to my heroes of the time was surreal. Tamara says, my very important duties included showing Gabby Sabatini the new high-tech treadmill, making sure Stefan Edberg signed the right form and giving Martina Navratilova directions to the bathroom.

1:05:56Not glamorous, but unforgettable, Tamara says. Wow. That's really cool. Thank you for that, Tamara. Tamara, Noonie and Rebecca, thank you very much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will be back with that special Jack Draper interview dropping at 7am tomorrow morning and we three will be back on Saturday to talk all things tennis. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you then.

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