Zverev secures No.1; Will Zheng Qinwen win a major?

0:00David Law: State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.

0:03Catherine Whitaker: We'll have room for fried cookies. Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal? What's his deal? He went to Metro and got$450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free and no activation fees. Free phone? Oh, sign me up. Get that more for your money feeling only on Metro by T-Mobile.

0:22David Law: Bring your number and activate$40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days.

0:30Catherine Whitaker: Hi, it's me, your gutters. I want to start by saying I'm fine. Everything is totally fine. There's just, there's a lot of debris up here and I've been managing it mostly on my own for about eight months now. And I just thought maybe you could find someone on Angie to clean me up. You don't have to make it a whole thing. It doesn't need to be a whole thing. I just, I could really use your help.

0:54Matt Roberts: Your gutters have waited long enough. Find a pro at Angie.com.

1:02Matt Roberts: Hello, this is Rose Mercier, halfway between Montreal and Toronto in Kingston, Ontario. You're listening to The Tennis Podcast.

1:21Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast introduced with poise and aplomb there by Rose Mercier in Canada. If you'd like to introduce one of our shows, then that is one of the options available when you become a friend of the Tennis Podcast. Just head to our show notes and follow the link to get yourself all sorts of benefits, including more than 24 bonus shows a year, ad-free listening and access to our online community, The Barge. David Rose has been listening for many years, she says, since just before student Matt joined. So she knows the dark days of just us.

2:05David Law: They were dark. I mean, that's more than 10 years ago when Matt used to be a listener. And was it any good, Matt?

2:15Catherine Whitaker: It was great. That was why I sent you a tweet, David, saying, can I get involved? That fishing for compliment worked.

2:23David Law: Excellent.

2:26Matt Roberts: Hello, Matt. How are you?

2:29Catherine Whitaker: I'm fine, thank you. Yes, one week to go until Wrexham. we will be on our way this time in a week

2:37Matt Roberts: we'll be on the what motorway is it M40 M40 and M6 potentially a bit of M6 toll if we're feeling if we're feeling fruity

2:53David Law: and it could last one point

2:55Matt Roberts: yeah

2:56David Law: and then you turn around again

2:57Matt Roberts: and I could have watched it on BBC iPlayer yeah but I am nonetheless naively very excited. I note, Matt, that some tennis has gone into your diary. We all have shared social calendars, which is a riot, by the way. I note that some tennis has gone in your diary for late on Sunday night.

3:20Catherine Whitaker: No, that was yesterday I played tennis.

3:24Matt Roberts: Oh, but was it weirdly late? Did you play at sort of 9pm?

3:29Catherine Whitaker: No, 10am. Who's been messing with my calendar? Maybe I have messed up my calendar.

3:33Matt Roberts: Did you miss enter it the first time around? This is starting to sound creepy now.

3:39Catherine Whitaker: I played yesterday in the morning and I'm playing on Thursday night at 9pm, clashing, sorry, I'm going to miss the traitors on Thursday, all in the dedication of trying to peak for the one-point slam.

3:52Matt Roberts: Will that be your last hit before the one-point slam?

3:56Catherine Whitaker: Yes, it will. And let me tell you, after the hit I had yesterday, I need the hit on Thursday.

4:02Matt Roberts: Okay, all right. Is this with your coach? Is this with Teach Trez on Thursday? Is he focusing on technical, tactical stuff or is he focusing on confidence, the mental side of the game?

4:17Catherine Whitaker: Very much all intertwined, I would say. We have broad sessions focusing on everything, really.

4:25Matt Roberts: No stone left unturned. Tickets still available, by the way, for the One Point Slam. And we'll pop the link in our show notes. We'd love you to come and support Matt and bring signs. We're encouraging elaborate signs a la Mira Andreeva supporting Conchita Martinez at Wimbledon last year. But if you're unable to make it, then remember it is on. I can't believe this still. It is on the BBC iPlayer, which is free, folks. It's free. It's universal. Not if you're outside of the UK, but get a VPN and you'll be absolutely fine. I'm suggesting watch parties. You know, let's make this a real thing. Great.

5:13Catherine Whitaker: Don't mess with that, Matt.

5:15Matt Roberts: No pressure on you, Matt. You need to channel Zheng Chin Wen, the champion of Beijing, the wild card at the start of the week, her first 1 ,000 title. She beat Mira Andreva 7-5, 6-4 to win that title. She had beaten Aliza Mertens in the semifinals. Andreva had beaten, taken apart in fact, Nicola Bartonkova. Both of those straight sets. It makes Zheng Chen Wen the first Chinese player to win that title in Beijing. And I'm pretty sure the first player to do karaoke in her victory ceremony. how good and how good a moment was this for Jung Chin Wen David oh fantastic I mean it was just

6:03David Law: I love the way she just took the responsibility of being the home player and being the one that everybody wants to win and and it didn't seem like a weight on her shoulders at all it seemed to just push her on and made her even more daring with her shot making she just sort of got better as the tournament went along. And when I saw Andreeva take apart Nikola Bartankova in the previous round, you know, you're thinking, wow, you're going to have to play well to hit through this player. That's the point is sort of, you know, she's so solid and she's just got such an amazing counterattacking backhand and she's striking the ball.

6:41David Law: So, well, how are you going to be able to hit through her? Well, she showed. We were talking about the acoustics of that place when Novak Djokovic was playing Alexander Zverev. And those acoustics were on full display in this match. You know, if you just closed your eyes and listened to one of the streams of that commentary and just listened to the balls being struck, oh, it was so pure. And the thing is that Jung's shots, every one of them had that sound, that popping sound of clean ball striking. and every one of them except the forehand had it for Andreeva. When the ball went onto her forehand, it was either slightly shonky, slightly spinny, or a slight forehand.

7:29David Law: And I'm afraid that did for her, I think. I think that a young at top form is a real problem for a player like Andreeva in that way. And to see her just not be self-conscious at all, seemingly, when she's celebrating and doing the karaoke He was just wonderful, really, I thought. And yeah, I mean, I'm just glad she won the tournament, frankly, because being a home player, getting that sort of atmosphere, that's what you want.

7:58Matt Roberts: We were talking in the last show, Matt, about the things that Jung Chin-Wen had been saying. At this stage, she's got to the semifinal stage. So it's already a fantastic week for her, or a couple of weeks for her. And she was talking about how ambitious she is. She doesn't just want to get back to where she was before. She wants to do better than that. She wants to be winning Grand Slam titles and regularly contending for them. Well, OK, this isn't a bigger title than she's ever won before. She's obviously an Olympic gold medalist from Paris in 2024. But it is something she's never done before.

8:38Matt Roberts: She had never won a 1 ,000 title and kind of taking the Olympics out of it, which I'm not discounting the Olympics, obviously I would never, but taking Olympics out of it, this is the biggest thing she's ever done at tour level. And it feels big. It feels like a huge leap for Jung Chin-Wen to me.

8:58Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, well, she had to win seven matches, you know, like you have to do when you win a slam. Tough week after the second for the wild cards agenda with Jun Junwen getting into this tournament on a wildcard and providing one of the moments of the year. But, you know, maybe we can leave that for another time.

9:19Matt Roberts: The way I've rationalised it, Matt, is that I don't think she would be here in this form and with this trophy if she hadn't not had a wildcard into the US Open and had to play qualies there.

9:34Catherine Whitaker: okay i see the mental gymnastics that have taken place

9:43Catherine Whitaker: carry on yeah um but no you're right like a fantastic moment and i think she just displayed so many things that you need to be able to do to win the biggest titles you know like beating top players consecutively with a win over Svitolina and a win over Andreva, with Merton sandwiched in between those. Those are really good wins at the back end of this tournament. She held up physically. She needed three sets to win her first four matches. And you're thinking, gosh, that's a lot of load going into one tournament. And yet, as David said, she played her best tennis at the back end of this tournament.

10:25Catherine Whitaker: And then in the final, really high quality final I agree with David, I think maybe Andreva went to the forehand slice just a little bit too often in some moments, but I did think Andreva was playing well and generally serving well and it was high quality between them, but Jung had these surges at the end of each set to win it in straight sets and that ability to bring her best tennis in the biggest moments and at the end of the first set it was all about flipping the momentum because Andreeva had set points and Jung saved them, held, broke, won the set and the crowd was with her and then at the end of the second set there was this incredible game at four all with back and forth deuce and Jung won that game as well.

11:11Catherine Whitaker: So not only did her sort of general weight of shot and her heaviness of ball cause Andreeva so many problems but she was also delivering her best tennis in the most decisive moments. And, you know, all of that packaged together, stringing wins together, holding up physically, playing well in big moments. You know, if you're creating a checklist for things you need to be able to do to win the biggest titles in this sport, in this era where the field is so strong and the game is so demanding, she kind of did everything this week. And it was just magnificent. And titles at home were always special.

11:48Catherine Whitaker: comebacks are always special and putting those two things together just made it yeah one of the best moments of the year i would say on on the tour to see jung back like that

12:02Matt Roberts: she didn't have her best serving day in the final did she and yet it didn't matter because when does she ever well but her second serve is so good it sets her apart from almost everybody on tour that second serve always used to worry about her serve statistics a bit because she does have one of the lowest average first serve percentages on tour she's tinkered with that technique quite a bit like it's such a weapon when it goes in it's one of the biggest but it is it's got a kink in that technique and it doesn't feel reliable but the second serve is so good now that it doesn't matter so much and it was such a contrast for andreva david because she'd had this sublime performance in the semi-finals where, as you predicted, Matt, she just took apart her second serve, didn't she?

12:51Matt Roberts: She totally exposed the Barton Covers' second serve, which is a great weakness. And you just can't do that against Jung Chin-Wen. It's a real superpower she's got there.

13:04David Law: Yeah, I think with Jung, one of the things that she's trying to do is always play on her terms. and that goes right down to the fact that she's got a big first serve that isn't maybe that reliable and then she's got a big second serve that she can back it up with and she's trying to take the racket out of your hands on the return. It does mean, I mean, you called it, I think, Catherine, the other day, a high wire act, which is exactly right, you know, and there's not that many players that play like that, really. There are powerful players, but usually they're playing it some of the time, you know sort of uh they're not going for broke the way that she does but yeah when it all clicks she's got to have one of the highest ceilings of the lot because yeah i mean andreva against potankova but potankova was doing the things she does she was coming in on the third or fourth shot of every single rally is it's such a great watch but she was just making a pay time after time if if anything was going to make her stay at the back it would have been the way she was getting dealt with by by andreva but this was just such a different proposition and and like matt said i it's not like andreva was bad i mean when when that serve of hers works it was a really interesting spectacle to watch these two super powerful accurate ace machines when they're going well on the court together and playing one another but i don't really i mean apart from early on in the match right at the start I thought Andreeva might just spoil the party you know but apart from that little flurry at the beginning I just always thought that gee this is just an unstoppable

14:48Catherine Whitaker: force that she's up against and I think there's something to be said for the amount that Jung has to hit second serves you know like it's almost like she gets used to facing these moments of danger really but still going after it because she hits an aggressive second serve she doesn't she doesn't play it safe on that shot and i think it it can still be a weakness for her like if she's not at her sharpest the number of second serves she has to hit and if she hasn't quite got her radar on her ground strokes like you know she's got one of the highest ceilings i don't think she's got one of the highest floors i would say on tour and getting that balance right but when she's sharp and when she's in the zone mentally as much as anything i think and feeling fresh like the amount that the amount of danger that she's used to facing i think because she has to hit so many second serves kind of sets her up to play that big bold tennis in those danger moments i think it it doesn't feel like she doesn't feel sort of diminished in those big moments she steps up to them because she's used to them and i think that is a that is a real weapon of hers when she's when she's at her best, the sort of fearlessness to her.

16:04Matt Roberts: Yeah, and there's something about sort of, it's like she spent her whole career, like her technique is so, I don't know about you, but when she takes the racket back, it's such a huge elaborate swing, isn't it? I sort of, my heart is in my mouth. Yeah, just for a split second every time. And it just feels like anything could happen here. And most of the time, good things happen. But it's not one of those techniques where you say it's all very tidy and nothing can go wrong. It feels like there's so much that could go wrong. But, you know, she's built her whole career on that technique. So she's very like, she's confronted the risk in her game.

16:50Matt Roberts: You know, she's metabolized it. It's baked in. And she knows who she is as a tennis player. and I think that's a really good point Matt that that sets her up for the biggest moments and the ones where most players grip their racket that bit harder and it might cost them. I think she's really well set up for those moments. I don't want to turn this all into is she going to win a slam because I don't want to kind of diminish the significance of this success in and of itself. I can hear Hannah shouting at the whatever device she's listening to this on going, doesn't have to be about a slam, but I am going to ask.

17:39Matt Roberts: Do you think Jung Chin-Wen will be a Grand Slam champion in the future?

17:47David Law: It's a great question, isn't it? you know because i mean even if it does irritate one or two i i i find myself asking that i'm curious to know what you both think and i'm gonna say yes i'm gonna say yes i think that i mean she's had this injury i feel like she's still gonna get better i think that's the best tennis from her is still ahead i think she has i definitely feel like the australian open fits her really well we've already seen her reach the final there we've seen her win uh Roland Garros at the Olympics um and I think that now that Sabalenka has shown just a few signs of of I don't want to say weakness but vulnerability maybe certainly in big moments I I don't feel like that because that's a rivalry that Sabalenka has owned she might not have to go through Sabalenka or that version of Sabalenka to win the Australian Open, for instance.

18:49David Law: And the way she sort of had that run through the US Open, albeit some of those matches from way behind, I'd be surprised if we don't see Joen Chin-Wen on a run somewhere. And when she's on a run, she kind of wins big. And so I think she'll get a run and I think she'll win a major title.

19:15Matt Roberts: I think I agree.

19:17Catherine Whitaker: And I think that's such a good point about Sabalenka. She's returning to the tour now, Zhang, and it feels a little bit different to what it was when she was at her best, you know, 2024, first half of 2025, when Sabalenka was such a roadblock for her. It wasn't just the Australian Open final. She also beat her in three other major quarterfinals, two at the US Open and one at the French Open. And, you know, a lot of those matches were not particularly close. And look, Sabalenka may well...

19:48Matt Roberts: She wasn't Andy Murray voice getting closer, was she?

19:51Catherine Whitaker: No, not really. And Sabalenka may well come on strong again and prove to be an obstacle. But also, you know, Zheung is quite a lot younger than Sabalenka. And there may well come a time where Zheung's in her peak in a few years' time. And maybe Sabalenka has faded a bit. And yeah, the shot she's going to have at the hard court slams and at the French Open, I think, given the ceiling of her game. And I think a really nice partnership as well with Peri Reba in her coaching corner. Like that seems really good. You mentioned, Catherine, the decision to take the coaching block before the US Open. Just seems like they've made a lot of good decisions.

20:34Catherine Whitaker: They've stuck together through adversity. I just like all of that. And I, if I had to say, usual caveat, slams are really hard to win. But I would, I would say yes, because of the, because of the ceiling and the potential of her game.

20:52Matt Roberts: Yeah, I think so too. I look at, I look at her attributes and I, and I think so many of them are, you know, the unteachable things, the sort of intangible, unteachable, unlearnable things. and she's got them. And those are the things that Grand Slam champions tend to have. I think she'll have some stinkers in there because of the floor situation. But I think the ceiling is high enough, absolutely.

21:23Catherine Whitaker: I mean, she was very close to beating Rebecca at the US Open just a few weeks ago. Had a look in that final set, a passing shot that would have really put her in a great position in that final set. And she then would have still had to go through Goff and Sabalenka. I'm not saying she was close to winning the US Open necessarily, but she's shown that her level can really mix it with the players who have been winning the slams. She's really not that far off at all. And yeah, I think a lot of it is going to be health permitting.

22:02Matt Roberts: She's up to 23 in the world now. So she's going to get seeded at slams again, which could be critical too. You know, she's actually pulled out of Wuhan this week. But before she did, the draw was made and she was going to face Irina Sabalenka. So, yeah, she could do as much as we've bigged up her chances of maybe having a pop at Sabalenka. She could do with that match not being in her opener, I think, at tournaments. So that's a good thing. Matt, you know my next very predictable question, don't you?

22:39Catherine Whitaker: Do I?

22:43Matt Roberts: Maybe I'm less predictable than I thought. Would you commit to doing karaoke if you win the one-point slam on Monday?

22:52Catherine Whitaker: Look, no one wants to hear that.

22:56Matt Roberts: Well, this is what I love about Jung doing the karaoke, because she's bad. She's bad. it's bad but I love it if you said David I love how unselfconscious she is it's just this joyful like childlike moment it's not about being good at singing it's just about joy

23:16Catherine Whitaker: yeah but I would be selfconscious about it

23:20David Law: I'll do karaoke if Matt wins the one point slam there we go

23:23Matt Roberts: you'll be at home in Solihull yeah but I'll still do it it needs to be on the BBC iPlayer

23:34Catherine Whitaker: I don't think anyone wants bad singing from someone Self-conscious about it though, do they? Like that's, that's terrible Yeah, yeah, true

23:45David Law: Maybe Catherine could come on the court and do it Because you will be there

23:50Matt Roberts: No, I would be self-conscious about it too I'd probably be worse than Matt, actually I am the worst singer, you know, I guarantee that In fact, you know that, we've been on road trips together

24:02David Law: um uh there was no self-consciousness in that car i'm telling you i love singing in the car

24:07Matt Roberts: but i'm i know you both did that's that's a that's a safe it's a safe space

24:13Catherine Whitaker: i thought it was i quite enjoyed it just have the leila ready to go and put it next to the loudspeaker at wrexham and that can be you know that can be my singing okay i was gonna yeah

24:28Matt Roberts: you've sung on this pod self-conscious my arse Defani won the doubles David and how 1 and 2 in the final yeah they did

24:40David Law: and in the semi-final they were down 5-2 first set and ended up winning that and then ended up beating Katarina Siniarkova and Zheng Shui in the final I mean I don't think this was anything like their best stuff particularly Siniarkova I mean if you think of what she's done on a doubles court. And obviously, Zheng Shui had brought out the fans. I mean, it was the same day as the singles final, but the place was just packed for the doubles final. It was so wonderful to see that. But I mean, they won three games against Stefani and Dabrowski. And it's taken them a bit longer to kind of win big, really, as a partnership.

25:23David Law: They've only been together you know this year um and they've been solid and they've been good but they haven't been great you know until now really and i wonder whether this is the is the moment but you know huge title to win um there was there was a nice moment where jang shui was holding the um the runners-up plate and she said i don't actually mind winning this one because this looks just like the venus rosewater a dish the singles champion uh trophy at wimbledon and it really did um so anyways are mega in beijing aren't they they don't hold anything back um no and yeah this the the winners trophy the big gold cup you know and it's it was great um so yeah congrats to defani because matt and i we have a soft spot.

26:14Catherine Whitaker: They are second in L race, are Defani, behind only Sinyakova and Townsend. Sinyakova is first in the race with Townsend and 13th in the race with Zhang Shui. That is baller, isn't it? Yeah. Is that ever...

26:35Matt Roberts: No, surely. If she continued playing, could she theoretically qualify... twice and could you if you're drawn in different groups there must be a rule that you must be a rule you can only be in with one partner hmm could be funny though

27:01Matt Roberts: there must be a rule there must be a rule to spoil our fun uh speaking of which uh we'll be back in part two to talk about shanghai so far today's show is brought to you by vanguard

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29:24Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where we head to Shanghai now and the penultimate ATP Masters 1000 event of the season. The final is on Sunday. We are currently, as we come to you on Monday, at the last 16 stage. A last 16 which will not feature Carlos Alcaraz. He was beaten just less than an hour ago by Zizou Berg. 7-5, 7-6, biggest win of Zizou Berg's career. Carlos Alcaraz crashing out after just two matches in Shanghai, after just two matches with his moustache. The Tennis Lords hath giveth Mo Karaz or Alcatash, take your pick, and the Tennis Lords hath taken him away cruelly quickly.

30:16Matt Roberts: Matt, will you miss mustachioed Carlos Alcaraz?

30:22Catherine Whitaker: I'll miss Alcaraz from this tournament. It was a bet with his team that he made at the start of Tokyo that if he won that tournament, they would all get a moustache. It's dangerous to make any kind of bet like that, I think, with Carlos Alcaraz, if you're a member of his team, because he probably will do the thing that he's threatening to do. I mean, I think it was a miss, personally, but I love the fun that he's having with it and sharing it with his team. I just think I'm all in on that. I think that's great.

31:00Matt Roberts: I thought it was a miss until I saw the Freddie Mercury clip.

31:03Catherine Whitaker: That was great too. And then he got me. He reads the, he knows the names.

31:08Matt Roberts: Yeah, he knows what's going on. Yeah, it's very, it worried me a bit how much a sort of 80s porn star Tash suited him. I really was quite like, oh yeah, this makes sense. Anyway, the tennis, ZZ Berg's match. Say things.

31:32Catherine Whitaker: Well, I mean, the first thing to say is how fantastic Zizou Berg's was. You know, nothing annoys me more as a Fulham fan. And on the very rare occasion where we get a big win, the pundits spend the entire time talking about the big team that's lost and give no credit to the, you know.

31:55Matt Roberts: Not something you haven't to worry about much at the moment, is it, Matt?

31:58Catherine Whitaker: Certainly the mid-table team we dream of being. So I do want to credit Zizou Berg's. And actually, James Hansen at The Athletic, a tennis editor there, has just sent me a graphic explaining just how well Zizou Berg served in this match in terms of his speed up towards 130 miles an hour, bigger than normal, and his accuracy and how close he was to the lines, way better than normal. Like, today, he was the best server on tour, Zizou Berg's, in terms of combining speed and accuracy. And that was incredible. Plus, just generally, his commitment to attacking tennis and trying to rush Carlos Alcaraz was fantastic.

32:44Catherine Whitaker: He kind of choked a bit when he went to serve out the match. I mean, Alcaraz locked his game down and started using his legs and made it difficult for Berg's. But the Berg's forehand broke down in that second set when he went to serve for the match. but then it didn't carry over to the tie-break. I mean, how many times do you see a player serve for an upset win, not get it, and then kind of fall apart? But he just didn't allow that to happen at all, and he kept it going in the tie-break, came up with a miraculous volley pickup where Alcaraz had done one of his trademark passing shots down low.

33:19Catherine Whitaker: And Alcaraz knows that when he's hit that, the next volley is going to be a sitter for him then to put away. But somehow, Burgs came up with the touch to put it back on the baseline and shock Alcaraz. He was fantastic, Burgs. And I really do want to say that. And he took advantage of an Alcaraz who was ragged and angry and techy and not happy. I mean, when he got broken in the first set, he spent the entire changeover just ranting in Spanish. I couldn't quite tell what it was about. It was something to do with the balls. But I mean, the balls are the same as the ones that were being used in Tokyo.

33:59Catherine Whitaker: So I think it's something to do with the way that the balls are interacting with that surface in Shanghai and those conditions. And he was just like, he kept saying, I can't play. And he was really off it, you know, and didn't have the usual feel. Lots of unforced errors. And out of the tournament he goes. He's never played particularly well in Shanghai, to be honest. but yeah, Bergs did play very well.

34:28Matt Roberts: And the reason I was eye-rolling through some of that is because I've been a Bergs believer all year, but before this year, I signed him up for my fantasy team, I felt really good about that. This is the ZZU Bergs that I always thought was there But I ran out of rope last week at the fantasy transfer window. And frankly, he's been a bit of a flop. And I decided to cut my losses. I was offered Quarantan Moutet and I accepted that trade from my 20-year-long friend, loyal friend, David Law, thinking he wouldn't diddle me.

35:13Catherine Whitaker: well now you haven't you haven't played fantasy law i feel like i've been hustled

35:21David Law: just i've just got an eye an eye for when somebody's about to come good you know nothing i know you on eastbourne yeah fine 250 points lovely great he has done nothing

35:34Matt Roberts: all year apart from eastbourne this is the only time he's won three matches in a row at tall level. We don't count United Cup because you always get to play sequential matches at United Cup.

35:47Catherine Whitaker: I do think that is a bit of a tough argument to make, though, when you've made a trade for also done absolutely nothing this year, Corantan Moutet.

35:53Matt Roberts: I will accept that he didn't do my due diligence on Moutet, who I had to Google. It's like, where is he? And the answer, unfortunately, he was playing a... I know he was injured after the US Open, fine, but he's fit now and he's playing a club competition in France. He beat like the world number 700 or something. What are you doing?

36:23David Law: Well, the thing with Zizou is he just needs a bit of quiet encouragement, Catherine. He doesn't need the eye roll. and that was what was working against him I think so anyway I sent him a voice note

36:41Matt Roberts: now he's beaten Alcraz

36:44David Law: so I'll enjoy those points

36:47Matt Roberts: I can't tell you how few signs he has shown of doing this all year none, none at all goes with my general record where on earth does that serve come from I mean he seems surprised I've never seen him serve anywhere even close to that.

37:06David Law: Yeah, he was shocked. It was like he was taken over by an alien being.

37:12Matt Roberts: He did an interesting interview after the match with, I think it was Ersin Kaderes, where he said, and this is something I've been frustrated about him before, is he's shown too much respect when he's played the top players. He's really flopped. against top players. And he said that today. He said this felt like a real breakthrough for him with not doing that.

37:39David Law: Yeah, I told him to believe in himself and it would come. And here we are. I'm pleased for him.

37:45Matt Roberts: He does seem a lovely bloke and he's got a really great dog. And I am pleased for him. But the timing is absolutely tragic for me.

37:53David Law: It is surprising that it's taken this long for him to... I mean, I'm not saying beat Carlos Alcraz. I wasn't expecting that. But to put it together a bit more than he has this year, you know, just that one little flash on grass, really. A lot of it has been disappointing, as you say. But you do get this stuff at the end of the year. I mean, look at these people that are losing this week. I mean, it's...

38:18Matt Roberts: You're telling me Burgess is this year's Vachero?

38:20David Law: It could be.

38:21Matt Roberts: I mean, you know... I'll tell you what, Sunday's pod, Monday's pod is going to be bitter. I mean, if somebody told you this time...

38:30David Law: if somebody this time last year told you that Vachero was going to win Shanghai imagine what we would have said you know you do get some some tired performances from players you get there are people that are cranky and there are others that just find it for a bit and just on

38:48Matt Roberts: Alcaraz and his crankiness look as you say Matt he's never played great in in Shanghai I don't think those conditions suit him. But I also think it's not an accident that we're seeing him look a whole lot happier at a 500 event than at a 1000 event. I think that this issue he has with the ATP and the 1000 events that he's not, I don't think he's hearing any indications that there might be movement on this. I don't think he's hearing any of the things that he would have hoped to be to be hearing. I think this runs pretty deep. I think it's more than throwing in some quotes in press conferences and in interviews.

39:33Matt Roberts: I believe he's doing some sort of low key protests behind the scenes. I think he's abstaining from doing ATP marketing at the moment. He's pretty serious about this. And I think that will be affecting him at ATP Masters his 1 ,000 events. I think he's extremely pissed off about them. And I understand that. And I think I'm not for a moment suggesting this was a tank. Far from it. I think he was really pissed off about that performance. But I think his general, you know, you saw him in Tokyo where it was all fun and he's making bets about having a moustache and it didn't look fun in Shanghai. And I know losing does look less fun than winning.

40:18Matt Roberts: but I don't think it's an accident and I think we've got a slightly odd situation where 500 events kind of outside of the slams I mean at tour level are kind of the sweet spots for Carlos Alcaraz because 500 you know they matter it's a big enough dollop of points they have decent fields but you also get appearance fees and you're treated like a king to be there because you don't have to be there. One thousands, you're required to be there and you're made to hang around for two weeks minimum and the whole thing feels like a grind and Carlos Alcaraz needs it to feel fun. And I think, you know, some places it will be worse than others.

41:09Matt Roberts: You know, I expect he enjoys being in Indian Wells an awful lot more than he enjoys being in Shanghai. and he'll probably be less cranky there. But generally speaking, I think unless he hears some of the things he wants to be hearing from the ATP, just at least reassuring him that they understand where he's coming from, I think this is something we're going to see from Carlos Alcaraz. I think we're going to see a Carlos Alcaraz that's having a lot less fun at 1000s than he is at a lot of other events. and that's a shame because it's a lot of 1000s and I really don't like the feeling of, you know, it's not this whole complaining about the calendar thing.

41:55Injuries is a big, big part of it and I know there's a correlation is not causation

42:01Matt Roberts: and you can't determine which injuries are down to the calendar and, you know, tennis has always had injuries, etc, etc, but take injuries out of it. I don't want to be watching players that I feel like are being forced to be there, are feeling like they're in a grind. I don't want to watch that. And I feel like we increasingly are. And I feel like, you know, Shanghai's place in the calendar being at the end of a long season obviously exacerbates that. But, yeah, look at some of the results that we're seeing. Art of Feast, David, has just lost to Bertic van der Zamskorp. What's going on there?

42:43David Law: Strictly speaking, they don't have to play. Alcrest didn't have to play this week. He could have just taken the zero-pointer and moved on. But, yeah, I mean, we know he doesn't love them and really wants them to stop being two weeks long. But he does want to play tennis.

43:02Matt Roberts: Yeah, but he wants to play when he wants to play.

43:05David Law: Yeah.

43:05Matt Roberts: to some of that you might really want to play tennis this week but and so if he wants to play

43:10David Law: tennis then it's yeah no i i get that i mean listen to some to some degree let's not forget that he also wants to play the six king slam and and things like that and and exhibitions when he feels like it so you know not not everybody's going to be carlos are they i mean like you know not everybody can afford to to do to look at the game the way he looks at it and just think oh it's fun you know some of them need to make a living um and and get points and stuff like that it's a bit like when he was giving advice about how to play against sarundalo and not everybody can do the drop shot off the back foot uh anyway artifice yeah i mean look he looks he should have won the first set of this match he had love 40 um early on he was serving really well but he looks he He looks like the guy who's just suddenly realised, God, I've got to win enough points to get to cheer in.

44:07David Law: And he looked a bit stressed. And Bartik looked as though he was just, the way he does, completely relaxed about things and hitting some incredible shots, going to break up, then basically breaking himself to love. And probably Feast thinks he's back again and he's in it. and he just couldn't, he looked immature out there, Feast to me. You know, he didn't understand what was happening. He got, he got Botick'd today. Just sort of drawn into his web. Yeah, I mean, look, he's an amazing, it's one of those like, you can set up a point really well and suddenly Botick's won it and with some incredible shot out of nowhere and the look on Feast's face was, how's he done that?

44:58David Law: And then the next point, you don't play anything off as well and then you've won that point and none of it makes any sense. And you can see that he was struggling out there. So, yeah, this was a bad loss really for Feast. Coming after Tien had lost and Alcraz has lost, there are opportunities here to make a run in this draw. And that's the thing. you know you've just got to find a way sometimes i mean we saw hodd before him he just found a way he wasn't playing very well against uri lehachka but he found a way and that you've got to do that

45:38Catherine Whitaker: and feast would have played hodd i think in the next round which would have been a chance to not only get more points himself but also take out someone who is one of his biggest threats to being able to make the ATP finals. He's okay. Fies is in quite a good position still. But, you know, he's going to be, I think, anxiously watching the rest of this tournament to see how, you know, particularly, I think, Dimonor and Khodar do. They're the ones, and Medvedev, they're the ones who are behind him, still in the draw, now have a chance to try and catch him up a little bit.

46:15Matt Roberts: Well, Medvedev's got Stefanos Sittapass next. Let's all party like it's 2021, folks. Sitsapas beat Taylor Fritz 6-3 in the third in a really odd match earlier on today. Fritz looked like he was in real command of this match. I don't quite know how he lost it other than, you know, Sitsapas ended up being brilliant down the stretch. But Sitsapas beating Fritz to face Medvedev feels very throwback all of a sudden. Yeah, I mean, there was a time when we lived for Medvedev Tsitsipas.

46:53Catherine Whitaker: It was the driving narrative of the ATP tour, you know.

46:59Matt Roberts: They had the dance thing, didn't they?

47:03Catherine Whitaker: Yes, absolutely. And, you know, a whole host of lore prior to that as well. Yeah, we just haven't seen it that much. I think Tsitsipas did beat Medvedev earlier this season. And he's had a lot of wins, a bit like this, Sitsapas. I think he's had eight top 20 wins this year, which is a very healthy number. It's just that he's been inconsistent and he hasn't really been able to string it together to sort of get back to where he was. But yeah, strange match. Fritz barely losing points on serve for the first set and most of the second set until he went to serve to stay in it at 5-6 and then suddenly lost his serve.

47:46Catherine Whitaker: and that seemed to spook him and the whole match and the feel of it and the momentum of it shifted. And yeah, I mean, that final set was pretty much peak Sitsapas. Certainly on his forehand, he was absolutely bossing points with that shot. There was some very odd drama towards the end where the ball kept falling out of Fritz's pocket. It happened on back-to-back points, including match point. and Sitsapas managed to stay composed in that moment even when he was losing match points and maybe I think he thought he should have got the point because the ball fell out of Fritz's pocket and then he served it out impressively and I also thought Sitsapas is actually slicing the ball better than I've seen him maybe that's something to do with the way the surface was taking the slice but that's one to watch because I've always thought that Sitsapas' slice is nowhere near good enough And maybe it was just the surface, the fact against Fritz.

48:44Catherine Whitaker: I think Fritz dealt with it very well. But that's something I will be watching going forward for Sitsapas because it did seem notable today. And yeah, you know, Medvedev as well is going to be, we know he's always motivated to beat Sitsapas. He's got points to make up because of the way he threw them all away last week by getting defaulted. So that is actually a very intriguing match in the next few days.

49:09Matt Roberts: It's not going great for the Americans, is it? The American men this stage of the season. Fritz out, Ben Shelton out to Artur Jaya. Francis Tiafoe lost to Thriller to Alejandro Davidovich Fikina. Lerner Tien lost out to Kasparud. It's a bit of a sort of cliche that Americans don't do great in this portion of the season post-US Open, but it does feel like a bit of a reality at the moment.

49:40David Law: yeah it's um i saw tfo saying about the possibility of turin being there for him and and not only him and shelton talking about wanting to be top five in the world and they were sort of saying that that makes this a more more of a reason to care in a way for tfo really you know driving on and and when he lost his match um seven six in the third against davidovich vikina he absolutely destroyed his racket right in front of davidovic fakina he was fuming about that that defeat um so i don't think there's any lack of desire but they just you know and shelton lost in two tie breaks they just didn't play well um tommy paul's still there trying to beat valentine vachero as we speak he's a set up and a break up and a break up so um you know maybe he's the man this year but uh yeah it's been a rough couple of days for the americans he's got quite an intense beard going on tommy paul in sort of facial hair news i thought well i mistook i'm

50:49Matt Roberts: mistaken for vashiro at first because vashiro's got a got a big beard going on uh anything else from Shanghai, Matt, on the Americans?

51:04Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I think the only thing I would add is that although he lost Francis Tiafoe, I was generally encouraged by how focused and locked in he seemed. Dave has talked there about the motivation for getting to Turin, and it was just a very different Tiafoe to the one we've seen at the end of the season regularly. and it was a high quality match against Davidovich Fikina. He was annoyed because he could well have won it. He had break points galore in that final set. There was an amazing hold of serve from Davidovich Fikina, love 40 down. And he actually fell over on his match point, Tiafoe, in the tie break.

51:43Catherine Whitaker: He got really unlucky, tripped up at the baseline and ended up not being able to get over the line. But he seemed to still be in pretty good form, I thought, whereas Fritz looked a little bit lost in that final set against Sitsapas. I didn't feel like that about Tiafoe and Shelton. You know, margins are tight there with two tie breaks. He talked about how he was struggling with the jet lag the whole tournament and I think he hadn't gone over for a tournament before Shanghai, had he? So I think he came into this tournament and maybe just struggled with the adjustment and never quite had it. But yeah, maybe Tommy Paul will do it for the Americans, as you say.

52:31Matt Roberts: In terms of El Race and potential nightmare tours, I mean, Alexander Zverev, who we'll talk about in a moment, he's still in the tournament. He beat Kanta Alice to move on to the round of 16. Then places two through seven are all out. Obviously, Sinner didn't start and the rest of all lost. Medvedev is in eighth place in the race. He's still in. Ninth place, Novak Djokovic is out. Tenth place, Alex de Menor is in. Getting rid of de Menor for Fritz. I mean, it's not quite Berg's for Moutet, Matt, but it's not looking like a great bit of business at the moment. De Menor in 10th place, still in. Khodar in 11th.

53:15Matt Roberts: Fritz in 12th. He's out. And then you've got Mensik, Auger, Liasim, Tommy Paul, who are all still in. Paul about to go double break up on Vachero. So that's your nightmare tour update. Last important bit of business from Shanghai or from men's tennis is that Alexander Zverev is guaranteed to be the year-end number one. Yannick Sinner's withdrawal from Shanghai and from the rest of the season guaranteed that Alexander Zverev would become world number one, I think, or all but guaranteed it. But Carlos Alcaraz's defeat today confirms that Alexander Zverev is to be the year-end number one. And it is quite fitting, David, that this has been confirmed by a Carlos Alcaraz defeat.

54:12David Law: Yeah, it's been the way the year has been, hasn't it? Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcraz have not been able to play or in this instance, Alcraz hasn't been able to play to the level he needs to play. But I mean, they both lost four and a half months minimum. Sinner's losing more of that. And Zverev has really just picked up the pieces that they've left behind. And he's done it consistently. be um he he's a bit like the the sort of nfl defense on a team that sort of bends but doesn't break you know like a couple of days ago yesterday i saw him play against contan elise and yet again he he loses a tie break set 10-8 against elise but he's straight out with the three love lead in the next set you know and and so often i've seen him this year opt to receive first and kind of catch the opponent cold break immediately and then the rest of the set is kind of boring because it he just holds on to his serve and look absolutely credit to him for that because it's strategically worked for him incredibly well and his consistency over the course of the year has been something else really i mean he the fact that he's still playing this event and still like when everybody else is flailing about and getting too tired or getting too nervous you know these things may be happening to alexander's verov and yet he's still winning a lot of these matches um so the stats tell you why he's world number one i i want to see whether he can try to do it when those two don't miss four and a half months minimum each because the the history would tell you that he's not been able to do that even though he clearly has made major strides this year and and has you know very nearly beaten Al Kras at a slam very nearly beaten Sinner at a slam but he didn't do it so that's kind of one of the intriguing storylines for next year but yeah I mean he he's the the deserving world number one given the circumstances we find ourselves in.

56:24Matt Roberts: Okay, that is it for part two. We'll be back in part three to have a little look ahead to Wuhan, which is, of course, already underway.

56:52Catherine Whitaker: Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

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57:51thousand mandatory event we have had some withdrawals i mentioned earlier the beijing

57:56Matt Roberts: champion jung chin wen and the beijing runner-up mira andreva they have both withdrawn as have linda nozkova and that's in as has linda nozkova rather and that's in addition to defending champion coco goff amanda rinissimova who has shut her season down elena robackina madison keys noemi Osaka and Barbora Kričikova, all of whom had previously pulled out for various reasons. So a lot of withdrawals from Wuhan, which is a shame, but there are some solid big names in the draw still and a lot of them with a lot of intrigue, not least Irina Sabalenka. She's the top seed. As I said, she could have faced Jung in her opening match.

58:39Matt Roberts: Instead, she gets either Ann Lee or Camilla Osorio, all due respect to them. That's a pretty different prospect to facing Jung Chin Wen. Igor Svantec is a possible quarterfinal opponent for Sabalenka, which means that one or both of them will probably lose before then because we just don't ever seem to get Svantec against Sabalenka anymore, do we? Jovic and Kostiuk are also in the top half with Igor Svantec. Svitolina, Bencic, Mukhova and Pagula are in the bottom half. who most needs a good wuhan david i do feel like it's sabalenka and i mean this is the tournament

59:24David Law: that she's always loved isn't it it's it plays super fast she's she's just been fantastic at this event over the course of time i think if she didn't do well this one i do think there'd be a bit of alarm bells ringing then for me as to well where is she because I mean I realized she had a good US Open it's not like she didn't she had a very good US Open but it was a disappointing result in Beijing for her um so yeah I I think Sabalenka do you think she will win the title I would I would make a favorite because I still can't look past this record of hers in Wuhan which just plays to her strengths but she just hasn't looked serially convincing in quite the same way she has in previous years so I still back her to to come out and find some form I mean I don't think she's an inferior player to what she has been in the past but I do I do think she's got it to prove in that way Matt what do you think well I I would have answered Sabalenka as well

1:00:34Catherine Whitaker: but I also would have answered Igor Svante, which is what makes the fact that they're in the same quarter so interesting because Svante probably needs to win Wuhan to really give herself a real shot at getting to the WTA finals. You know, like it's that serious in terms of her qualification. You know, I think she's due to play a 500 still after this, but she's close to a thousand points behind where she needs to be right now. Now, obviously, winning Wuhan would put her right back in that conversation. But I think, you know, Frigis-Fiontek not to make the WTA finals would be such a stark result, really.

1:01:16Catherine Whitaker: And I'm sure that, OK, qualifying doesn't make up for the year that she's had, particularly at the majors. But it would be a boost, I think, going into next year to feel like she's somewhat back on the right path. And the results matching up with maybe the work she's doing with Francisco Roig. So I think it's big for Svantec. So I agree with you, Catherine, we very often miss Sabalenka-Svantec, but I would love that match to happen this week of all weeks in the quarterfinals with quite a lot at stake for both of them. And then I suppose the other players that jump out to me would be Svitolina and Mukova as they try and secure their qualification.

1:01:55Catherine Whitaker: They've both had such good years. They would feel like getting to the WTA finals would really cap that off, but they might need to fend off a charge from Svantec if she gets it going this week. So that's kind of where I'm seeing my interest in Wuhan. I'm not the biggest fan of the Tour Finals as an event, but I do quite like the race at this time of year and seeing who's going to get in and who isn't. So I'm focusing on that really in terms of who needs big weeks.

1:02:27Matt Roberts: Predictions? David's going Sabalenka, I think. Yeah, Matt?

1:02:32Catherine Whitaker: Yep. It is hard to overlook that record for Svobalempo in Wuhan. And, you know, as much as we say Svobalempo's not been all that convincing, well, Svontek's been a little bit in and out as well, hasn't she? So it's hardly like you can make a big case for Svontek in that one either. So, Svobalempo.

1:02:58Matt Roberts: Okay. I'll make it interesting and go Mukova is she fit?

1:03:09Catherine Whitaker: ish if Mukova's fit she didn't look great did she at the end of Beijing but she also got outplayed

1:03:20Matt Roberts: I'll go Mukova they call it or they tried to make Wuhan handball happen didn't they she's a Wimbledon finalist So there you go. OK, we will be back with our next show on Thursday to update you on how things are going in Shanghai and Wuhan. And we won't be, or maybe we will be talking about Valentin Vashiro because he's just lost. So no back-to-back Shanghai title for Valentin Vashiro. Bearded Tommy Paul marches on to the last 16, flying the flag for the American men. We'll let you know on Thursday whether he's still in the tournament we have a mascot for today's show. Look at this dog. It is Stinny, owned by Emily Marker.

1:04:06Matt Roberts: Now, when I first allowed myself to scroll down through our agenda to check out today's mascot, I looked at that and I thought, gosh, must not stumble over my words and say Stinky because I initially misread it as Stinky. But it turns out that's fine because Emily says Stinny, also known as Stinky, Stinkerbell and Stinkerroni. So Stinky's obviously fine. He is a frisky terrier mix hailing from the Bella Vista neighbourhood in South Philly. His humans, Emily and Simone, adopted him the night before the lockdown started in March 2020, still mourning their beloved Grisby and unwilling to contemplate being locked inside a dogless house.

1:04:55Matt Roberts: Stinney now also has a small human, Cece, to love and protect. Stinney enjoys sticks, tennis balls and making sure no one on the block is up to any funny business. Of course, he is passionate about snacking and eating, which tend to blur in his case. His ears will perk up at the first scent of Babybel cheese or those honey mustard flavoured pretzels his human father likes to eat at night. But ultimately, Stinny lives by the motto that food is food and loves to gobble up bits and pieces of hoagie rolls and pizza slices in the Italian market. Think of the iconic running street scene in Rocky. Does that mean something to you, David?

1:05:34David Law: Yes, it sure does.

1:05:36Matt Roberts: David's a Rocky guy. Stinny is a dog of substance. Food is far from his only interest. And he believes passionately that doggy rights are human rights. His nickname should not be taken literally as he actually smells fine.

1:05:54Matt Roberts: You must be having to constantly reassure people, Emily, that Stinny does in fact smell fine. Despite his name. We've got a montage of photos of Stinny, all of which are epic. He's sleeping in front of the tennis in one of them. He's got amazing ears. Here he is contemplating a bowl of grapes. What a dog. We love Stinny. He looks very like textbook dog, you know, white, black patches, man's best friend vibes. So thank you, Emily, for making Stinny today's mascot. Hello to our mascot, Bodie. I can only apologise for all of my decisions. Maisie and Roger. I think Corantan Mute might owe us an apology as well.

1:06:47Matt Roberts: Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. We'll head to Matt for some shout outs.

1:06:56Catherine Whitaker: We have BG.

1:06:58Matt Roberts: Oh, hello. Brad Gilbert.

1:07:02Catherine Whitaker: That was my first thought as well. But no, living in California, dual Franks UK national. Oh, very fun.

1:07:11Matt Roberts: OK.

1:07:12Catherine Whitaker: Hi, BG. And BG says, survive New York solo in 2025, went down with severe food poisoning at the end of my first day at the tail end of fan week, got wheeled from Armstrong to the medical center in the Bowels of Ash on day two, managed two hours of tennis before taking myself to A &E where I spent the rest of the day, got discharged and was able to attend day one of the tournament to complete my career spectating slam, which I started in 2003.

1:07:45Matt Roberts: Wow. Got there. Gosh, what a comeback. Yeah. Step aside, Jung Chin Wen.

1:07:56David Law: It's like Jakob Minchik. Yeah, The Undertaker.

1:08:01Matt Roberts: Wow, BG, that is, gosh, I hope, well, that sounds quite traumatic, but ultimately, what a triumph. Yeah.

1:08:10Catherine Whitaker: He says, my shout out goes to the kind doctors, nurses and staff at the New York hospital who took care of me and allowed me to discharge myself to attend the tennis the next day.

1:08:20Matt Roberts: Good on him. Good on him. Yeah. Congratulations on your hard earned fan slam, VG.

1:08:30Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Ben Olsen from Winter Haven, Florida. Hi, Ben.

1:08:38Matt Roberts: Hello, Ben.

1:08:40Catherine Whitaker: Ben says, like Shelton and Bonzi. And he says, last year I was asking for suggestions for new favourites as my long-time favourites Nishikori and Stephen seem to be approaching retirement. This year I've settled on Lerner Tien and his ingenious lefty game as my new ATP favourite. Sloane hasn't quite retired, so I haven't quit on her yet. But Eva Jovic and Alex Iala are at the top of my watch list.

1:09:09Matt Roberts: Iyala Roncourt right now in Wuhan.

1:09:12David Law: I think you've got a good future with those players to back, haven't you?

1:09:16Matt Roberts: We're big Learner TN fans here. Although he's out of Shanghai. I like Ben's style. Yeah. Yeah, we like your style, Ben. We think you've got good taste. Do we think Benjamin Bonzi goes by Ben?

1:09:34Catherine Whitaker: Doesn't roll off the tongue as well as Benjamin Bonzi, does it?

1:09:38David Law: I think he'd get a bit uppity about it.

1:09:42Matt Roberts: Do you know Benjamin Bonzi, David?

1:09:45Catherine Whitaker: Benji? Benji Bonzi?

1:09:50Matt Roberts: Yeah, maybe. We'll do some hard-hitting journalism. It's one of those names that you never call him Bonzi, do you?

1:09:58David Law: You always call him Benjamin Bonzi. No, full name.

1:10:00Matt Roberts: Yeah, Daily Alley. Yeah. Well, you've got Ben Shelton. Ben, who definitively is a Ben. So thank you, Ben and BG, for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. If you'd like to become a friend, the link, of course, is in our show notes. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We'll be back on Thursday. Thank you for watching and for listening. We'll see you then.

1:10:31David Law: We'll have room for fried cookies.

1:10:33Catherine Whitaker: Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal? What's his deal? He went to Metro and got$450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free. And no activation fees. Free phone?

1:10:46David Law: Oh, sign me up. Get that more for your money feeling. Only on Metro by T-Mobile. Free your number and activate$40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days.

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