Advantage Arsenal against Atleti? Was PSG Bayern too good? Can Spurs catch the Hammers?

0:00James Richardson: Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. I, um, I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24-7. Healthcare just got less painful. Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort Line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose style. Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy.

0:44James Richardson: You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas. Because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio. Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. Spring means literally to burst forth, to grow, and that's what we're talking about both in our kitchens and at Whole Foods Market. Freshness and seasonality is what's happening at Whole Foods Market right now.

1:16James Richardson: With the season's first new potatoes, spring onions, artichokes, favas, snap peas, radishes, spinach, and other spring greens, and more. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring and save at Whole Foods Market.

1:35The Athletic FC

1:43Totally Football Show Today we look back on Tuesday's unforgettable football encounter Stockport-Portvale What were you watching? It was Champions League of course midweek too We review the Guts, the Glory, the Game of the Century Tuesday in Paris the toilet roll and the two penalties Wednesday in Madrid. What awaits in the second legs of those two ties? We'll chat about that. We'll look ahead to the Premier League weekend, Match Day 35, and we'll get the draw for the 2026 Inter-Totally Cup. Woo-hoo! All that and more in this Totally Football Show.

2:28Thursday the 30th of April, welcome everybody to the Totally Football Show here in the studio. Jack Lang, jaunty Jack Lang. Thanks. Hi. Thanks for bringing that ray of sunshine on your head into the studio. You're welcome. Nice. Duncan Alexander's here. Hello, James. Ready to talk football business. Yeah, that's what I do. Charlie Eccleshire as well. Hello. How's the tennis, Charlie? Good, I'm off to Rome next week, actually. Very nice. That should be nice. Right, excellent. I've just come back, of course, from other sports. How was it? It was, I mean, redacted, but great. Yeah, yeah, no, no, it was very good.

3:12And yeah, always nice to be in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Jet lag okay. It's, you know, luckily there's been the football Yeah The first half of the extraordinary diptych of Champions League encounters this week The first half I saw in an airport Mexican restaurant They took a bit of time to get the feed up By which time it was already, not the The shimichanga The, you know, the actual game By which time it was already 2-1 but luckily there was still so much more to enjoy. We'll be talking about all of that. Also, the InterTotally Cup draw, which you're handling for us, Jack.

3:55James Richardson: Apparently so, yeah. What an honour. The Graham Kelly. Yeah, I was thinking, very great Kelly. Can't wait. That's great, because I thought maybe you wouldn't be enthusiastic or something. This is, yeah, this is... Why are you taking part, Jack? Disinterest. This is, I mean, it's like the FA Cup, isn't it? Yeah. It's gone. I've gone to Brazil. Yeah. Right. Running scared, perhaps, because there's some heavyweight names in the competition this year. We'll talk about that later on, but very much Champions League for us, first of all, after the highest scoring set of semi-final first legs since 1960, mainly thanks, of course, to Tuesday's fixture.

4:36Although, how about this for a shock stat? There were more shots in Wednesday's Atleti Arsenal game, Charlie. I know. What to make of that? I know. by quite a way as well quite comfortably more 29 to 22 yeah footy eh footy i mean the other shocks are well duncan perhaps you got one manu noia didn't make a single save no in the 5-4 on tuesday no michael cox pointed out in his article on that game that the keepers didn't really make saves yet neither of them had like a bad game which is again quite unusual it was just occasional but elite finishing it wasn't it was a strange game really i mean i think that's why people lost their minds over it so much it was it didn't feel like a normal match no at any point michael who's not easily impressed talking about football on a higher level he's similarly normally sanguine charlie echoes saying don't want to go overboard but i think that was the best half of football ever played ever played ever overboard police on line two charlie two days on you stand by that I mean it was written with deliberate kind of hyperbole but I mean there's there's obviously recency bias but there's also nostalgia which means you can never say that something that's just happened is really great without people being on like what what about this what about that right I can't remember the game two weeks before with Bayern Munich against Real Madrid which I thought at the time was you know about as good as it was gonna get was this better yeah for me I just can't remember a better a half that i've spent more just like open mouth and making audible noise of just like what is going on here and i know some would say it was bad of course there has to be an element of not great defending but i'd say i mean like the elise goal is bad defending was it yeah i think they stand off him and they should do a bit more but generally it was just elite attacking play two teams and also i mean by best i mean most entertaining yeah it was just absolutely non-stop Well, too many goals ultimately.

6:35By the end, you realise that football is such a low-scoring sport. Goals are so special and powerful. By the end of this, it was a bit... It's just getting a bit silly now.

6:46James Richardson: It was inflationary. Yeah, it was. Each goal devalued. Jimbo, I think you got it right seeing six goals rather than nine. Six or seven is kind of perfect. Nine is a bit much. Four-three is the max. You can't go beyond that. We talked about this after the Real Madrid game, how it's a special scoreline. I must admit, I didn't feel that because it was so exhilarating seeing PSG go from 3-2 to 5-2 in the blink of an eye, but then Bayern come back. I wouldn't say I felt shortchanged by the final 20 minutes or so, not providing further twists, but I didn't feel like it was getting silly. But I just, in the sense that it felt almost like, not arbitrary, but it was like, well, a goal's gone in, but who knows where it's going to end.

7:28Right, and that was Luis Enrique's great quote at the end where he said, we deserve to win, but we also deserve to draw. And we probably also would have deserved to lose had we lost. Yeah, because it didn't feel like any team was playing to the fact that the match was 90 minutes. They were, like when the match stopped, it was almost like, oh, is that it? Okay, cool, we'll go off now. When they get called in for their tea, that's when the game ends. Yeah, exactly. It was like, let's just keep playing and trying to score. We'll also buy them when they're 5-2 down. At no point did they look like, oh, we've really blown this.

7:57So just like, carry on. We'll have some more goals. Producer Charlie called it the best Champions League game involving Bayern Munich since the last one. Other reactions? Luis Enrique, another quote from him. Without doubt, the best match I've been in as a manager. Matthew Doyle said, we finally have an answer to what if an Eredivisie game, but with the best players in the world. Mike Goodman said, overtime playoff hockey, the soccer match. Get German football news. He's going quite deep in some of these. just reactions I saw that that account called it if Boxing Day 1963 were a Champions League match that's for you Duncan.

8:33Actually do you know what yeah he might have nailed that because I think so no but they might have nailed it good point um I had a sense of unease during that game I think it was I think Boxing Day 1963 for which I wasn't alive has deeply affected me in ways I can't really explain and that actually sport my enjoyment of generational trauma yeah well the fact that it It was 1960. As soon as it said 1960, it was the first high, it was the highest score since 1960. Think of your 63 thing.

9:02James Richardson: On the psychology of it, when there's that many goals, you start near the end trying to remember the order of them in your head. And it's actually quite stressful because there are so many. Like it was 5-2, but who got the fourth for PSG? You actually have to do some accounting in your head, which I think may put it into the realm of too many goals. Do you think so? Well, let's run through the goals, perhaps. That should be really useful for me. Yeah, and we can maybe think about what it all means beyond just being an absolutely terrific evening's entertainment, which is perhaps the greatest thing of all.

9:39We're going to begin, though, with Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern, and we'll do the Arsenal a little bit later on. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

9:55James Richardson: Dembélé, Dembélé on the right, their grand Boulogne!

10:01James Richardson: Ousmane Dembélé! This match that bascule in irrational and Dembélé is immense and the biggest of all is perdue to Paris Saint-Germain. That was the French getting very excited when they went 5-2 up against Bayern and there's no way the Germans were coming back from that, of course. It turned out to be the highest scoring single leg of a Champions League semi-final ever. Do you want to go through the goals, Jack, or should we address some broad issues? Like, if PSG go out, which is entirely possible, will they look back on the moment that they were 5-2 up and think, could we have handled that a bit better?

10:37James Richardson: Yeah, yeah, clearly. What could they have done? Because, I mean, people have said they should have shut up shop. Can you shut up shop against that Bayern Munich team? I just think the tone of the game had already been set by them. And they clearly accepted the high-risk factor, right? because for the first 50, 60 minutes, it was just essentially the middle of the pitch didn't exist. Every time you looked up, it was a counterattack or multiple players streaming forward. And I think if you're PSG, you're kind of okay with that because I think overall, their players are a touch better than Bayern.

11:16James Richardson: It's like Bayern have got an amazing front three, but PSG's midfield is probably better. so i think it's a brave decision to go for a slugging match but i think the odds are probably with you when you're that good a team and like they've come out on top of some ding dong battles in the past i think the actually if you actually look at the goals that brought um buying back into it the up and meccano one is it's a set piece like they haven't really done anything wrong apart from some slightly slack marking i suppose the diaz one it's hard to say like it's a great goal obviously and yeah both the the assist and the yeah it's amazing so this is harry kane it's one of the best fills of the season i i felt like yeah so the ball up from harry kane which is kind of lofted and dinked and drops exactly perfectly and just at the and he obviously He plays it at the last moment he can before Diaz would have been offside.

12:13Right. And he needed that advantage to get to it first. I always think, for me, with ranking great goals is how few other players could do it. And that got how few other players in the world could do the Kane bit and then the Diaz bit. Right. So tell us about the Diaz bit then. Well, he's lofted ball over from Kane, which again, as Dunge says, perfectly timed, perfectly weighted. he manages to control it and then sort of draw the defender in cut inside him and then finish perfectly into the corner he shapes the shoot then goes again which obviously creates a little bit of space for him to score it's incredible

12:44James Richardson: go back first to the first touch because I think our idea of a great first touch is proximity to the body like you know bring it down right in front of you the old kind of the old Zidane first touches the Berbatov first touches this was a bigger first touch but it was the correct first touch because if he had brought it down right next to his body Marquinhos was probably within like tackling distance so he actually purposefully took a bigger first touch knowing that Marquinhos's momentum was taking them the other way really clever first touch and then yeah it gave him the time to do those kind of maneuvers and foil Marquinhos send him tumbling.

13:20If you go through pictures of Luis Diaz on Getty which I have to do quite often there is so just for my it's my hobby there's so many of him in mid-air controlling the ball on the end of his boot. He is just like the best player in the world at that. And so that goal was almost like the ultimate Luis Diaz goal, I think. And it was, in a night of brilliance, it was the most brilliant bit. Kane, who supplied the assist for that, opening the scoring with his 54th goal of this season. I mean... Yeah, and how many penalties he's taken for Bayern Munich. It's a staggering number. I mean, obviously, in the league, they're so dominant so they're going to get a lot of penalties but um that was his 37th i think it's crazy out of 39 and interestingly it was the new penalty the one that he basically invented after the miss in the world cup um when he realized he couldn't always just smash it into the left hand side of the goal and so he basically brought in this stutter penalty when he just knocks it to the to the keeper's left um and yeah he i mean he was brilliant all night i mean the The front threes of both teams were just 10 out of 10, every single one of them.

14:31Kvala Scalier with a classic Kvala Scalier goal to make it 1-1. That was, I thought, one of my favourites as well from that. I mean, again, it's just absolutely elite, the ability to work the yard and then finish so clinically. I mean, it's so in the corner. It's basically perfection. It's unsavable. All right. Arsenal fans could enjoy the third goal which put Paris Saint-Germain 2-1 up Jean Neves from the corner Well both teams scored from a set piece which I thought was illegal but here we are And then the Michael Lallise goal which was apparently bad defending Well I think of the ones if you wanted to make that argument it's a little bit soft he's kind of dead in front of goal and I think everyone's just terrified of touching him so they kind of back off Right.

15:21It felt almost like the Ulisse aura, which has been building all season, which is kind of just scaring everybody off almost. But yeah, it was amazing to see him. And it's a great finish. Yeah. And then another penalty. And this one, the subject of much controversy, probably the biggest talking point of the game, the handball on Alphonso Davies, with which Paris Saint-Germain put themselves back 3-2 ahead. Yeah.

15:47James Richardson: Yeah, I mean a week of a lot of penalty decisions that we'll come to in a second in the other game. This one, yeah, I mean, the ball cannons off his leg into his hand. His arm is pleasingly kind of like... Yeah, it's all limp. In the Premier League, isn't there this rule that if it hits another body part first, then you don't get it? So I think a lot of Premier League regular watchers were... I think this is the thing that annoys people, that there's essentially a different rule set. You know, let's say you go around someone's house at Christmas and they play Monopoly in a different way. You can't do that.

16:19Yeah, you can't do that. Monopoly's terrible anyway, you shouldn't play it. But yeah, it just seems weird. I mean, everyone who watches Penalty will be like, well, that wouldn't be given in our league. But I mean, sort of did smash off his arm, didn't it? Yeah. Duncan, you're just being contrary. In no way deserve to be a penalty, surely. He had his hands behind his back, turned around, and in the action of turning, one leg, one arm, I believe, comes away from his body. But it only gets hit because it does bounce off his thigh. Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty ludicrous. But also it's quite boring to talk about it from such a great game.

16:53Well, that's true. To do a long-offering decision. Although, that might be the difference between these two teams. So tight, it proved on Tuesday and possibly next Wednesday as well. That was 3-2 as they headed into the halftime break. Then we had Paris Saint-Germain scoring. Kavadosh Kelia running onto Ashraf Hakimi's pass. That was a lovely goal. So I don't remember that one at all. The ball comes across the penalty box and there's two PSG players and two defenders all tangled up. And the PSG players both let the ball run, which is amazing.

17:24James Richardson: It wasn't really picked up in the coverage. No, no one mentioned it. Dembele actually skips over it. Dembele definitely left it. The other one was at Neve was trying. But Dembele definitely stepped over it. It was clever. The finish from Farriskeli again got overlooked just because there were so many goals. But it was brilliant because he gets so much power with no back left. But goes near post as well, doesn't it? So kind of wrong foot's the goalkeeper. The amazing thing about that goal was just how much space Hakimi was in. Like from, I think Conrad Lima pushed up and tried to make a tackle.

17:55James Richardson: And it was just in absolutely acres of it. I was going to say as well, though, when you were asking Jack before about could they have managed the game differently? I think when your fullbacks are Hakimi and Nuno Mendes, they are absolutely unbelievable at what they do going forward. I think it's hard with those fullbacks to suddenly say, right, we're just going to drop in, don't get forward, because that's what they do so well. that's what separates them as we saw here did they adjust a little bit though after they did go 5-2 up with the dembelly goal did did psg alter their approach a bit well maybe but hakimi got injured towards the end actually charging up i mean he gets he picks up that injury deep in um buying territory it looked like a hamstring done by like sort of dribbling it was like an f2 skills because there was you know twisting and turning on the touchline and he he was obviously trying to block it and he ended up just pulling his hamstring and that is huge for the second if he can't play, that really is, that will make a massive difference.

18:47That'd be a big boost for Bayern, I think. Just because those four backs are so important to how they play, making the pitch massive. I mean, especially at home, but even so away as well. Right. What do you think about the second league, Jack?

18:59James Richardson: I think I'm looking forward to it. I think, I don't know how many different gears these teams have. I think they're both amazing teams, but I don't look at them, either manager really, and think they will try something different. I think they would do more of the same. Vince and Company's interview after the game, it was, you know, Company's had a lot of stick over, from Premier League audiences since becoming a manager, you know, failing at Burnley and getting this job. But I thought his answer was brilliant. They just said, like, you know, he was asked, you know, are you going to replicate this in the first leg, in the second leg?

19:36James Richardson: You know, are you going to go for the same road? And he just said, more. More. This, but more. Emperor Palpatine. Yeah, it's great. what a reply i don't know i don't know if it'll work and i but just as a rhetorical construct it's great just more more of that please one girl down but at home no hakimi what do you think duncan yeah i think it'd be close i think you probably would make buying slight favorites at the moment even though they are a girl behind just having that home advantage i do think that jack mentioned there that they've got previous for these kind of ding-dongs i do you might go back that villa game which was similarly kind of crazy really and they are able to kind of ride out these storms of like they'll concede a bunch they really did yeah that was the most rattled they were i mean well they'll score three without reply didn't they yeah and we're pushing really hard yeah um i very nearly did it but um so i so i guess from that i would even if like Bayern can blow any team away but I feel like with PSG even if Bayern were to race into like a three goal lead which I don't think is inconceivable like they are that good there's and especially at home but I can also then see PSG responding in kind and not being phased in the same way Bayern weren't.

20:52Real do last time out in the event that Arsenal do get through to the final which one of these two teams do you think the Gunners would have a greater chance against? they played Bayern in the autumn and beaten 3-1 and I think that's probably Arsenal's best performance of the season they basically reduced Bayern to hardly any I think Bayern had two shots on target in the whole game and it is that sort of I mean I think Karen Seedhoff said on on the coverage on Tuesday that he'd fancy Arsenal to beat either side and it is like the philosophical thing like at some point you do have to defend and at some point defending in football will be attacking.

21:27Arsenal Indiana Jones with the pistol confronted with a scimitar wielding yeah very possibly yeah just on the who they'd rather play they obviously played PSG three times last season Arsenal they beat them comfortably in the group stage and then lost in the semis but especially the game I mean both games they had a load of chances and they basically got Donnarummaid yeah the start of the second leg in Paris yeah the only time weirdly that Arsenal have actually taken loads of long throws like people they actually didn't and that really rattled Donnarummaid it did yeah and then Odegaard had a shot that I still don't understand I understand how Donnarum's arm didn't snap.

22:02Yeah, exactly. Well, let's see. Arsenal have to get there, of course, and they've still got their second league against Atletico Madrid to come. We'll get on to what happened on Wednesday in the Champions League next.

22:19James Richardson: Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. Why did I search the internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that. Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care, fast. Healthcare just got less painful. Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort Line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose style. Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy.

23:04James Richardson: You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas. Because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio. Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. Spring means literally to burst forth, to grow, and that's what we're talking about both in our kitchens and at Whole Foods Market. Freshness and seasonality is what's happening at Whole Foods Market right now.

23:36James Richardson: With the season's first new potatoes, spring onions, artichokes, favas, snap peas, radishes, spinach, and other spring greens, and more. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring and save at Whole Foods Market.

23:56This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around.

24:22That was Julian Alvarez Julian Alvarez Equalising from the spot As indeed Arsenal From whence Arsenal had taken the lead At the end of the first half That second penalty blistering. David Raya has to, he does a kind of double take, like what? Well, I think he deliberately didn't move because someone came while the contretemps was going on before the penalty was taken. Someone in the Arsenal team went up to Raya and was talking to him. He was saying, don't move. He's going to hit it down the middle. And he didn't. He didn't. But Raya's reaction was, what just went past me? I mean, combined speed of the two penalties must be some sort of record.

25:04Gokras doesn't hang about either. That's also true.

25:07James Richardson: can you combine speeds yeah maybe the average super bullet yeah you have to take it from twice the distance though so that would give the keeper that's actually quite a good idea from twice the distance a robot leg wouldn't that be a free kick you take the wall out the equation right yeah this game actually wasn't bad although it did come after the greatest game of all time it was a really good semi-final right i think you know a different sort of semi-final yes but still yeah it was a kind of more typical classic two things you want to get to a final yeah i spent the first half wondering whether it was bad or whether i was just having to kind of reattune to it i actually think having the benefit of having slept i think the first half wasn't great right i thought the second half was really good yeah like it was a yeah arsenal were really good in the first half good for them but yeah they were allowed to be watching well yeah yeah i mean yeah it wasn't thrilling but they completely controlled it against a weirdly passive atletico who it was odd it was like because that because then for about half an hour at the start of the second half they were so at it and it was the kind of game i think we were expecting and the crowd already into it they just really stepped off in the first half um and i don't know But then they did seem to kind of run out of path.

26:30Maybe they were waiting for the grass to grow in the first half. Yeah, possibly. But yeah, it was odd. I mean, I guess a combination of respect for their opponents. And I guess physically, Simeone must have felt they wouldn't be able to play with the kind of intensity they did for that period in the second half all game. Because it seemed like an odd choice. Yeah. So Arsenal took the lead through Victor Jokic's penalty. and he had, it was widely accepted, a good game, one of his best. Yeah, he looked quick. He was strong on the ball for once, which often he isn't, and won the penalty, yeah, got shoved over.

27:10I think it was a penalty, although he then gave away a free kick in the second half for the same offense and started complaining. I said, come on, come on, Big Vic. He can't have it both ways. He went on a great run and sort of charged past Llorente, got a good cross in for a good chance for Odegaard. Right. So yeah, he did kind of what I think was hoped that he would do when he was signed. And it is a great penalty. I mean, well, it's saveable where it is. It's not in the court. Look, when you first watch, you think, right, that's in the corner, sort of Harry Kane style. It's not, but it's just hit with such force.

27:39If you hit a ball that cleanly, you've got a decent chance. I know we don't want to discuss the refereeing or the decisions overly, but how did you feel about the Ben White concession for the Atletico penalty? I thought that was...

27:53James Richardson: An obvious penalty. Good. He saved it. Good. And then you get the penalty that was overturned, which of the four penalties awarded this week felt almost like the most penalty penalty. I think that's an unbelievable overall. Unbelievable. So what do you put it down to? So the dynamic being that there is a coming together of Hanko, who conceded the first penalty, and Eberichi Eze. there's not much contact but he does touch the foot of Izzy knocks it past him and Hanko's foot goes onto Eze's boot what I don't understand is what did he see the first time that he then didn't see looking at it like clearly in the moment it's not a bad foul it's just what he saw is exactly what happened it's the attacker gets there first nicks it the defender commits it's soft it's annoying for the defender you've made a mistake but there is contact i don't understand what he then or what what the var sees that's different from that he has a long conversation with the var he's he's you can see him on he's just talking for ages and like i don't understand what they were saying at that point like what he was like what like was were they saying you need to go and have a look it's we don't need this penalty and he so he could go okay i'm gonna have a look so why was he talking for so long it's very weird but i mean it's fully re-reffing i mean which we're always told i mean i don't even know if that lie is still trotted out but like it's 100 re-reffing he's seen it he's given it and then just another ref subjective view is slightly different and we're going with the other refs i did like the the idea that you know in the same way there's like difficult grounds to go to as an away team there's difficult screens to go to yeah it's a really with simianals right there the crowd obeying um and apparently clubs get to choose where the screen goes that's extraordinary which seems you know not not ideal not ideal but yeah i mean understandably arsenal and arteta were absolutely furious after the game and yeah i mean that would have would have changed the complexion of the second leg although you can argue that arsenal in the last round were defending a one goal lead and i think that kind of messed with their heads a bit so i think in some ways a sort of one-off start from 0-0 game at the Emirates next week might see them interesting interesting atletico madrid came alive in the second half was there a particular reason for that i don't know i thought it feels weird to default to must have been a good team talk but must have been a good team talk because he brought on he brought on uh lenormand like brought on another defender right and you when that happened i kind of rolled my eyes internally because it felt like he may be kind of essentially taking the result as it was and just getting out still in the tie um it turned out they like the system changed a bit but their intensity was just much higher there was a kind of um they got the crowd on side a bit more they were it's a small thing but they just did like did quite a few fouls and like got in the referee's face a bit and you know this isn't beautiful football but it does make a difference sometimes especially when you have the identity that atletico have we know we've heard we heard all the stuff before the game for all the kind of people who watch spanish football every week like it's a slightly different atletico team and fine but the the identity of the club is a kind of it's a prickly attritional oppositional club and by the time you've got all these kind of like toilet rolls raining down they cleared most of the way in the first half they started coming in the second half and with all these fouls and kind of this nervous energy coming it felt like a south american match uh which i think it was massively in atleti's favor over arsenal arsenal did well to to weather the storm and actually i think that's part of the frustration at the es a decision is i think that came at the end of arsenal withstanding that assault from atleti and coming out the other side of it it was kind of 10 minutes to go they felt like they'd that would have capped off what was a really a grown-up performance from them it was a kind of old european away display that you think of um and so yeah that was i think that only amplified their frustration but atleti were much much better in the second half and like charlie said it's weird how anodyne they were in the first half.

32:27Atletico have been to the Emirates recently, Charlie. Yes, they lost 4-0 in October. How much can we take from that ahead of Tuesday? I don't think a huge amount, just given that last season, for instance, Arsenal had beaten PSG 2-0 in the groups, but then it was completely different. And obviously the context is different. Luckman's joined since then. Should mention as well, had he gone down, there was one shortly before the SA penalty that wasn't. Ben White is lucky not to give away a second penalty. Similar thing, yeah. Yeah, Lutman stays on his feet, has a shot that's saved. So, yeah, I don't think that will matter hugely, but I think it will feed into a sense Arsenal may have that, you know, they certainly shouldn't fear this Atletico team.

33:10I think they will think they're the better team. Lutman, whose arrival, and again, we saw this on Wednesday, it's been such a huge thing for Atletico Madrid. Julian Alvarez going off injured in, what was the second half, I think, again. Yeah, which also did shift the momentum a bit as well. But Simeone said that he thinks he should be all right for Tuesday. But he might not be moving perfectly, but he's just so good. No wonder half of Europe wants to buy him. I think overall it's a weird game because Arsenal will feel very aggrieved with that decision. But I think it would have also been quite harsh on Atletico to lose that game, given how good they were for about a 25-minute spell where they created a huge number of chances.

33:55And I think by the 71st minute, they'd had 11 shots in the second half to Arsenal's none and something like 13 opposition box touches to none. So they were so on top in that period. But obviously that's, you know, if it was the other way around, we'd probably be saying, well, Arsenal didn't take their chances and they've been sucker punched. There was Griezmann's shot against the bar as well. There was that. Luckman had that other chance as well that was sort of beaten away by Raya and then the one when he could have gone out for the pen. I think a draw was fair. Yeah. These are the two teams to have played the most Champions League games without ever winning the competition.

34:28Is that a stat that's set to continue, whichever goes through, Jack? Good question. What I'm essentially saying is, will either of them have a chance?

34:37James Richardson: I think they would definitely have a chance. I think it would obviously depend on whether the good-time Charlies have their way in the final or slightly more. right this time last year well post the semi-finals we were all saying yeah psg are brilliant but you know inter wiley inter yeah and we saw much away we saw how that went but you i yeah i just i'm just really pleased that both semi-finals are just still completely in the balance right because we've had seasons where and rounds where it's kind of been over after the first leg so this is um two weeks of elite soccer it's worked out quite nicely because you we are getting all of the combinations were having you know psg against by an attack versus attack this one you know it wasn't as grim as some people were projecting but it was still it was more stodgy it was a little bit more kind of careful so we get both of those and then we get the combination whichever teams it is but either way it will be presumably one team on the front foot one team a little bit more reaction reactive so yeah it's uh it's worked out quite well i think excellent more to come next Next week then.

35:47Very good. Let's have a complete change of direction as we turn to a competition that Arsenal had led for pretty much all season but may well end up taking nothing from the Premier League. Matchday 35 up next.

36:03You're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day. At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our Sport Astorbin has specialised socks for whatever sport you're committed to. Running, hiking, golf, Pilates, and so much more. Made with sweat-wicking yarns, blister-fighting details, and targeted arch support. Bombas Sport is pro-level socks from the pros of socks. For another pro, you. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's bombas.com and use code audio.

36:34James Richardson: Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. Spring means literally to burst forth, to grow, and that's what we're talking about both in our kitchens and at Whole Foods Market. Freshness and seasonality is what's happening at Whole Foods Market right now. With the season's first new potatoes, spring onions, artichokes, favas, snap peas, radishes, spinach and other spring greens and more. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring and save at Whole Foods Market. Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set.

37:15James Richardson: Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast experts set up on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home. Hi, I'm Juliette from New York Times Games, and I'm here talking to fans about our games. So you play New York Times games? Yes. Do you have a favorite? Connections. It just scratches an itch in my brain. It's really out of the box thinking with that game. I play with my husband every night.

37:47James Richardson: I refuse to let him play it without me. I love that it's like a real life connection. Yes. While you guys play Connections. Very sweet. I promise I didn't play that. New York Times game subscribers get full access to all our games and features. Subscribe now at nytimes.com slash games for a special offer.

38:10You're listening to the Totally Football Show now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. Batchley 35. Boy, that's flown by, isn't it? Just four rounds to go. We've got a title, one relegation place and maybe a sixth Champions League spot still to be determined. This weekend's games begin on Friday. Leeds, who are now six points clear to the drop, are against the now-relegated and Scott Parker, let's Burnley. Saturday at three, Brentford, who are currently two points off sixth place, will be hosting West Ham, who are still two points ahead of Spurs.

38:51Brighton, who are in sixth place, are at Newcastle. And Wolves face Sunderland. Then at tea time on Saturday, you've got Arsenal against Fulham. The Cottagers are also in the mix for sixth, but they have the worst record against the Gunners. Arsenal, having played a game more than Man City, are three points clear again on top and plus one on goal difference. City don't play until Monday evening at Everton, by which time they could be six points behind. Sunday, Bournemouth, also in the mix for sixth, TM, are at home to Palace at two o 'clock. There's a less important than it sounds and possibly all the better for it, Man United-Liverpool clash at 3.30 and that's followed at seven o 'clock by Aston Villa against Spurs.

39:36A Monday, two games. Chelsea, also in the mix for sixth. They're up against Forest. Forest are now five points clear of the drop. And Everton Man City. Duncan. Chelsea playing at three o 'clock on a bank holiday Monday, which is confusing. And if you're alarmed and if you think this doesn't happen very often, you're right. It's only the fifth time in Premier League history there's been an afternoon kick-off on May bank holiday. Right. We don't know why. Why is it happening this time? Do we know that? We don't know. Okay. But it is. And why not? Indeed. What do we think of significance is going to happen in those kind of three areas of interest?

40:16Well, yeah. I mean, will there be a break of serve in the title race? Perhaps, yeah. I mean, you've got... I don't know what's... Yeah, I mean, both games that... So, yeah, Arsenal with Fulham at home. Yeah, Arsenal never lost in 32 home league games against Fulham. That's the most any side has faced another without defeat. I would say that's slightly misleading because Fulham have had quite good results against Arsenal the last couple of seasons. Have they? Yeah, two seasons ago when Arsenal got 89 points, Fulham beat them at Craven Cottage and drew with them with 10 men at the Emirates. The draw would be like a defeat.

40:51Exactly. And last season, Fulham drew with Arsenal in the Craven Cottage game. So yes, they do have that terrible record, but they've been a bit of a problem team for Arsenal. Okay, although they do, you know, just while we're throwing stats at this, have the fourth worst away record in the Premier League. And I think, I mean, Iwobi's been out. I imagine he still will be, which is pretty big for him, pretty big for Fulham and him against his former club. Right. Yeah, I mean, Arsenal, the reality is, I think, as much as everyone tries to almost overcomplicate things with Arsenal or focus on certain elements, I think it's just player availability.

41:26It's really simple. And I think often it's overlooked maybe because it's so simple. And there's this kind of omerta about talking about injuries. But I don't mean that in an excuse kind of way. I mean, Arsenal can't keep their players fit kind of way, which massively undermines them. And so if they're back in it, they had a, you know, so they played Bournemouth and they had to, they were without something like seven players. They played a front three of Martinelli, Madueke and Jokeres. That is not a title winning front three in no world. And that's what played yesterday. In Portugal. In Portugal it might be.

41:58It's not a Premier League winning front three. You look at what they're up against in Man City, that's another world. They go away to City, they get some players back, they get to play Havertz up front, Eze and Odegaard come in, they look way better, which by some is attributed to, see, the mentality, the approach is different. No, the quality of players is really different. The quality of the medical staff. Yeah. So if they can have some of these players available, but Odegaard went off injured, so maybe he drops out again. Havertz is gone again. Did he go off injured? well he went off after about 55 minutes which maybe maybe it was a selection but he went off apparently um sam dean from the telegraph tweeted that he was getting some attention in the first half i think it would have been an odd call when he just conceded in a cauldron atmosphere to take off your captain and play his best keeping the ball anyway so does he play so i think it as basic as it sounds and they're still without timber and califiori califiori's comeback he's not fit to start what kind of team they can put out if they can and how knackered they are you You know, they're coming.

42:56It's such a short turnaround. So, yeah, I think team selection will be huge. Is Saka fit enough to start the game, for instance? Can Eze start? You know, he came off, made a huge difference, was brilliant. So I kind of think as basic as it is, it comes down to that. If they can manage to patch up those players, they should probably win. If they don't, and if it is anything like Martinelli, Jokeres, Madueke, then it probably becomes a 50-50 arm wrestle against a mid-table team. as it was against Newcastle last week, as it is most weeks for Arsenal because they can't put their best attackers out.

43:31And that's a fault. You know, that's not an excuse. That is an issue. And it has been since Arteta's been there, really.

43:36James Richardson: It's so self-reinforcing as well because that second tranche of players who are this kind of borderline A, B team, they're now knackered and picking up injuries. And there are players that are in the squad that Arteta clearly doesn't want to rotate in like Christian Norgard. I think he's lost faith in Gabriel Jesus by this point. So these are guys who could feasibly... Lewis Skelly, another one. Right. In some matches or circumstances, freshen up the team. But obviously the stakes are so high. And... There is that shiny big red button with Max Downman written around, which you imagine this is the sort of game where he might actually get some time.

44:16Because as Charlie says, I don't think Saka's fully fit yet. And they do have a pretty big game coming up on Tuesday, which I have to think about, which complicates matters. But to Jack's point about the second string, Martinelli and Trossard are going through a generationally bad run of form at the moment. And if you think back to the autumn when Arsenal were at their best, Trossard actually had a really good start to the season. And obviously last summer, Arsenal were supposedly trying to buy a new left-sided attacker and they didn't. And it looked okay at that point because Trossard kind of stepped up.

44:45But recently it's been a huge problem. And obviously Eze's played there. Well, they did. Yeah, I think Eze, had Odegaard been able to stay fit more this season, he would have done. But I was just thinking, it's like with Liverpool, you think of that great team and I'm not saying Arsenal's first choice attack is as good, but obviously Havertz, Saka and Eze is a pretty good attack. If Liverpool were playing like Shaqiri and Origi most weeks, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, yeah, they did for Barcelona. They probably wouldn't have been getting 90 plus points every season. Like, these things matter and I think Arteta, everyone, a lot of people don't like him and they kind of contort themselves to find reasons to sort of justify that because I think Brody's done a great job.

45:22but I think the one question mark is can he build a squad to last the course for a season the one season he did they got 89 points but Havertz Odegaard Saka White played so much they've really struggled to stay fit since and Havertz Odegaard and Saka have probably been Arsenal's three best attackers the last few years they last started together in December 2024 that's that's their big issue and whether they can fix that in the next four games is you know is open to doubt I I think if they don't and they keep having to play, patch things up, there just will be a game in these 50-50 matches where one goes against them and they draw one.

46:00That could have been Newcastle. And Mikel Marino as well. And Mikel Marino has been a big loss as well. Yeah. I mean, he's closer. The reality is he's almost closer to what Arteta wants from a striker than Jokrez is. Jokrez is a great plan B. I think that's where he was kind of bought to be. The problem is he's had to play so much as the only option. Fulham this weekend, then the game against Atletico, then away to West Ham, who have got business to attend to. Burnley at home and then Palace away on the last day of the season. Man City this weekend, or rather on Monday night, also against a mid-table team.

46:35They're going to be at Everton. They've won their last nine matches away at Everton by an aggregate score of 22 goals to four. They did lose 4-0 there. Was it Guardiola's first season? Yeah, the Claudio Bravo saved route. And everyone was like, see, Guardiola. I can't do it in this league Right Narrator He actually can Well we'll see Yeah We'll see what happens Monday night under the lights At the Hilly D We just don't know I know I did see I think it was Tim Sherwood Who was like Everton a tough place to go Which obviously sounds like It should be true This is the first season Of the Hill Dickinson And I think Everton are 14th In the home table So statistically it's not But vibes wise It sounds it Yeah it's tricky Tricky place to find We all did well on Monday Night Football This week So why not next week yeah be at home there meanwhile at the other end of the table the matches are Leeds against Burnley on Friday night Brentford West Ham on Saturday Villa Spurs on Sunday and then you've got the Nottingham Forest well Chelsea Nottingham Forest on Monday afternoon Burnley parting company with Scott Parker this morning just before we began recording actually we were rocked we were rocked by that news you had to take five minutes for you now and it still hasn't sunk in really but for Leeds that's a game that could essentially rubber stamp their permanence for now although that doesn't really go with permanence does it but staying up that's the simple terms what about the other teams Brentford, West Ham, Spurs at Villa and the Forest game at Chelsea Villa will be coming off their Europa League semi-final against Forest which is played this evening as we record.

48:22Spurs, meanwhile, are coming off an actual victory.

48:26James Richardson: Jack? I think it's, of all the times you could have played Aston Villa, I think this is up there. Okay, good. That's obviously a massive deal for them. Being in a semi-final full stop, also against, you know, Valey neighbours, I think they will, Unai Emery, will put a lot of his resources into that. And also the fact it's kind of a Sunday evening weird kickoff. I don't know whether that helps, but it's far enough away from this Thursday, I guess, but also close enough to next Thursday. Oh, yeah. That's how time does tend to work. I only saw the highlights of the Wolves game. Maybe one of these guys saw the whole game.

49:10James Richardson: They weren't super impressive in victory. It got over the line more than produced a real performance from what I saw. They've also got further injuries, you know. Yeah, serious injuries. Charlie Siemens, Cristian Romero both out. For the rest of this campaign. Yeah, and that's to add to, you know, the 75 they've already been walking around. And Solanke picked up an injury in that Wolves game as well. Oh, he did. Well, that's not good. All hands on deck situation. I'm way past thinking that Spurs have some kind of inherent quality that will magically keep them out of the relegation zone I think this is a tough match even with Villa's other distractions and yeah I think it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were to go back to losing ways Particularly when you look at their recent record against the Villains They played them four times in just over a year in the league and also twice in the FA Cup.

50:14Villa have beaten them on all occasions. They won 4-0 a couple of seasons ago. Right. And a few years before that. But a couple of years before that. Yeah, I mean, it's another massive weekend. I mean, we saw the points swinging back and forth with West Ham for a period being four points clear of Spurs. Then it went back down to zero when Spurs went ahead and West Ham were pegged back. and then obviously West Ham got the late goal. They're away at Brentford. I mean, so Spurs will go into that game. They could be five points off, but any drop points by West Ham and then Spurs will know if they win, they're out the relegation zone.

50:50That's so true. Will West Ham drop points, do you think, at Brentford? Brentford, six matches without a win. There's always one team at the end of the Premier League season that like sneakily goes into bad form and no one notices and that feels like it is Brentford at the moment. West Ham just feel like they've got momentum they feel like every player knows they're deep in a relegation battle and they're just scrapping and I can see them and to Charlie's point I think if they do win at Brentford the pressure on Spurs on Sunday night been five points behind I mean basically they have to win that game if that is the scenario because Leeds at home tricky you know Leeds probably will be safe by then and cock a hoop and then the fix for the following weekend has been postponed because the cup final that's the way to chelsea so they're midweek that could help them because chelsea were coming off an africa final but also battle of the bridge too too fast too furious it could be chelsea have a chance to relegate tottenham which i don't care how tired chelsea are i'm fairly sure the crowd will be up for that so the game with chelsea at stanford bridge will now be held after the everton game yeah no no no everton game is the last gate the last beginning of the season.

52:04So it gets held the Tuesday just before that. Right. So a few days after the FA Cup final. Okay, right. Under the lights, the lights of doom. But anyway, yeah, they basically need to win it for whatever. Right. Can they? We'll find out. I don't know if they, I mean, I don't know if they'll need to, if West Ham, you know, were to drop points, then they probably, they'll have other chances. Especially as West Ham play Arsenal. the following weekend, which in theory you would expect them to not win that game, certainly. Yeah. West Ham, who have Brentford away, Arsenal at home, Newcastle away. Is that a tough game?

52:44I don't know. And they finish off at home to Leeds. Last weekend, I was away, but by the sound of it, the relegation picture was swinging wildly one way than the other. West Ham four points clear and then Spurs out. Radio was being listened to, for sure. And then Chelsea Forest on Monday afternoon. Alrighty. Well, we'll take stock of some of that on Sunday night. We'll also be talking about what happens between Man Utd and Liverpool, third against fourth. Liverpool, who are also level on points at the moment with fifth place Aston Villa. That's key for the potential sixth spot in the Champions League for Premier League sides.

53:22Villa need to finish fifth, but also win the Europa League. Their semi-final against Forest coming up tonight, as we mentioned. What about Man United-Liverpool? Just fun or?

53:33James Richardson: Yeah, it's incredibly rare and strange that a game like that can be, what, like the fifth most interesting game of the weekend. But yeah, it's another chance for Michael Carrick to kind of stake his claim. He's been started very well in a pair of big matches. um united have been a little bit less convincing in the last few weeks but kind of they've got this habit of dragging themselves over the line in tough games which was completely absent during the amurim um spell so i think even to some degree even them playing worse but just the the weight of wins is massively in his favor at this point um yeah okay and bruno Fernandes, as I'm sure Duncan will tell us, is tantalisingly close to that assist record.

54:32Yeah. Tell us, Duncan. Well, he's on 19. And two men, Kevin De Bruyne and Thierry Henry, have 20. Okay. He registered his 19th on Monday in the victory over Brentford. Crikey. Mo Salah, meanwhile, for Liverpool. There was some suggestions that he played his final game after that hamstring injury against Palace. but more optimistic noises from the Anfield medical crew of late. We shall see. Unlikely, though, to feature here, which is a shame from Liverpool's point of view, because if anyone's got a good record against Man United, well, he's one of them. It feels very 3-3 this game, somehow. Oh, yeah?

55:13Well, that's nice. Sunday at 3.30. Bournemouth are up against Crystal Palace. It is now 14 matches unbeaten for Bournemouth. The reverse fixture, speaking of three threes, Duncan was one of the games of the season and that was the scoreline at the final whistle. Palace, who are in action, of course, on Thursday night away in Poland, taking on Shakhtar Donetsk in the Conference League semi-final. Also this weekend, you've got Newcastle against Brighton. Newcastle, not quite in the relegation zone, but they're not far off there. were they to lose this and they've lost five in a row in all competitions it could get interesting that yeah I was kind of amazed because that that was being talked about last week after they lost as well I think because they played quite well in that game and lost 1-0 to Arsenal I mean they are eight points clear yeah but so it would take a lot and you know they probably need one more win and they'll be fine which I appreciate looks elusive at this point but I think Joe Linton will be back from his suspension that makes a big difference Bruno it was his first start in a couple of months I mean those two are so important for Newcastle so yeah I'd be stunned if they really did get dragged into it but there's a big bosses over this week for a review okay I'm sure that's van Freddy Howe right so that may lead to a reaction of either proportion maybe so these are delicate times of course for any sporting entity funded by money coming out of that part of the world.

56:49Live or let die. Yes, yes. Wolves of Sunderland, that's Saturday at three. So those are the Premier League fixtures this weekend. Very shortly, we're going to touch on what awaits in the championship, final round of the championship this weekend. And also, Jack is going to do the business for the InterTotally draw. Woo! This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. So the Football League wraps up this Saturday. There's one automatic promotion play still to be won from the Championship alongside Coventry. The three teams in the hunt for second place are Ipswich, Millwall and Borough.

57:31Ipswich are playing QPR at Portman Road. They are one point, Ipswich, one point ahead of Millwall who are up against already relegated Oxford United. Ipswich, meanwhile, have a two-point lead over Borough, who are going to be away at Wrexham. Wrexham are in the playoff spots, so they'll have plenty to play for. That's going to, yeah, that's pretty much the only noise you can make in response to news like that. I mean, you'd expect Ipswich will get it done, but it would, personally, I'd quite like to see Millwall in the Premier League. It would be amazing, yeah. And they still could in the playoffs, but Southampton feel like the big danger in the playoffs.

58:10Do they? Yeah. Who are the likely playoff teams? So if it ended as it is now, it would be Millwall-Wrexham in one semifinal and Middlesbrough-Southampton. But Southampton have basically been in the best form and obviously beat Arsenal in the FA Cup. Millwall-Wrexham, a potential playoff match and also a general policy. Meanwhile, down the other end of the championship, Duncan? Well, three teams already down, nothing to play for. Trouble Trefford Wednesday, who if they win on the last day will get to zero points. Always a good target, I find, in football. equally troubled Leicester City. Yes. Down.

58:44And plucky, former non-league side, Oxford United, with their three-sided ground, slip back into League One. Well, that's the championship. Let's find out now what's going down with the Inter totally cup draw. Jack, a bowl has appeared in front of you there.

58:59James Richardson: As if by magic, it has eight small pieces of paper. Eight small pieces of paper? I have counted them, confirmed, yeah. Okay, fantastic. So basically, those eight pieces of paper represent eight of the finest totally football show regulars minds who will be testing those brains out, battling to be this year's champion. Jack, you're not participating because you don't care. Fairly doping time. When is the cup going to be held? That's the question. Ahead of the World Cup, which kind of risks making, I think, FIFA's tournament the Atletico Arsenal to our PSG Bayern but you know they knew the calendar when they set that whole thing up Duncan and Charlie you're both in the bowl yes who are you hoping for who would you like do you want to know who the other options are yeah go on read the options okay so the full line-up is Michael Cox three-time intertotally champion producer Charlie two-time champion and defending cheat but yeah okay Daniel Story was also 1-1 Charlie you were in there you were runner up too Daniel Benji Laniado who was runner up Tom Williams who's been runner up for three straight years yeah Duncan Alexander it's rare for you to actually take part in Intertoebly yeah I thought I'd give it a go people like Jack are pulling out so yeah and the dark horse the debutant Colin Miller who I reckon will be he'll be good yeah he'll give anyone a match me thinks alright Jack let's do the business draw a name out of the bowl I'll just do a bit of rustling right that's what it okay the first name out of the hat is Michael Cox Michael Cox I've had to blame the first round two years have you yeah wouldn't it be extraordinary it does happen in cultures doesn't it you get sort of you do yeah you just get attracted to one another right well who's it going to be facing the three-time Intertotally champion, Michael Cox.

1:01:04James Richardson: Looking away for effect to reduce any claims of rigging. Yeah, don't make it go too fast. That's what listeners are thinking. And it's Daniel Story. Oh! Heavyweight first round. That'll be on TV. I think I know what noise Daniel's making right now. Coxy's at United. He's been on TV. Every first round. All right. So, Coxy against Story. Yep. We move on here. Oh, it's Charlie Eccleshire. Charlie Eccleshire. I'm Thai, I'll take it. That's all you can ask of this day. 2022 runner-up. We'll be facing... It's Tom Williams. Tom Williams. Corbyn Bay's finest. El runner-up.

1:01:46Born to runner-up. There you go. Charlie doing that classic rueful chuckle from the cup away from the door.

1:01:55James Richardson: Producer Charlie. Oh, yeah. Two-time champion and defending. We know where this is going. Winner. We simply know where this is going. And he will play Duncan Alexander. Duncan Alexander. Knew it. Crikey. He didn't even got the number for Cass. Which means, oh, you tell us. Respect the process. Respect the process. There's Colin Miller. Yeah. And he will play. Debutant. Picture Baron Benji Laniardo. From Big Picture. JPEG. Benji Laniada who's runner-up in 2021 Crikey that's very exciting Jack there must be part of you that's thinking I wish I'd put my name in the bowl Maybe but it's deeply suppressed It'll only emerge after decades of therapy I would think Okay all right Those match-ups will be going out in a special totally football show And I think they will start being with you in two weeks time on the Saturday hmm crikey oh speaking of Saturdays if you're still here listener there's a totally extra for you a brand new one this week on Saturday which Duncan is all about Spurs and their incredible journey to the 2019 Champions League final and their incredible journey thereafter huh this was all arranged while i was away was this you're doing no okay no but it's good timing isn't it because they certainly kicked on after reaching that show face occasion right well i can't wait to hear more about all of that take us back to the days when away goals were a thing yeah and var was shiny and new that though i think is it for today's show jack thank you so much for today doing the draw bringing us your thoughts Duncan, lovely to see you Charlie, magnificent stuff as ever and you listener as well as Jake and Charlie in the booth, oh and also producer Javi that's it, see you soon we'll be back late Sunday possibly join us then from now from all of us here it's goodbye

1:04:13just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:04:33The Athletic FC.

1:04:40James Richardson: Hey there, it's Wayfair here. where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home. This year, experience the NHL playoffs your way. Want to watch a single? Do or die Game 7, a full week of heavy hitting back and forth series.

1:05:19James Richardson: Then check out Sling's 1-3 and 7-day passes. Watch the chase for the cup on ESPN and TNT, starting as low as$4.99. No long-term contracts or overpaying. Just live hockey at home or when you want it. Sling lets you do that. Visit Sling.com to learn more.