Kane qualifies England for quarter-finals as Italy stun France

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1:42It's the Totally Football Show. Today, Nations League, England play the hits, Canaan attack, a calamity at the back, and win against Croatia to book their quarterfinal slot. Sunday against Spain, they could take top spot or not. Also, Pio Mio. Italy beat France 3-1. France got ahead, but the Azuri came roaring back with a Pio Esposito brace. We'll round up all the night's action and the day's news as well. Poch's latest with double-sacking drama Carrick and Sarge giving their discharge. All of that and more in this Tony Football Show. That's right, everyone. It's a late night special for you. Thursday the 12th of November.

2:22We're fresh off the back of the raw drama of England against Croatia and also Italy, France. And here in the studio, Tim Spears and Duncan Alexander join us while from Chez Louis, Julian Loraz. Hello, Jules. Hello, everyone. Hello to you. We'll have a quick check on the latest regarding Manchester United and Crystal Palace and their managerial upheaval. But of course we'll begin with England-Croatia. Jules, you were all over the game at San Siro, so this will all be new to you. I still had the screen on it. Did you double screen? Yeah, of course. I imagine you were keeping more of an eye on San Siro because, Tim, let's start with you.

3:04England-Croatia wasn't the most dramatic of games, but England got the job done? England got the job done. Obviously, it was a momentous evening with Harry Kane, etc., beforehand, and a bit of a slow start to the game. Obviously, Croatia, coming into it, they'd been embarrassed by the 7-0. So I think the theme for them was to come and, you know, repair some of the damage of that and not embarrass themselves again. So they came intent on stopping England. And they didn't make for a great game. They brought back Misic after a nine-year absence. Basically the only sort of proper DM holding midfielder in their squad, which sort of gave you an idea of the attitude that they brought into the game.

3:43So it was a bit of a slog. There was some nice attacking play from England. And from Croatia as well. And from Croatia. mostly from set pieces. And I think we've seen some, certainly some issues with the England defence that when you take away just two centre-backs, I'm not sort of really including John Stones at the moment in the reckoning, take away two centre-backs in Kwanzaa and Gay and there's not much underneath because Kwanzaa had, you know, not a great evening. Dan Byrne did Dan Byrne things, but the defence was very wobbly with Trent Alexander-Arndert right back as well. So that was a sort of big theme of the night for me that came out of it.

4:18We didn't learn much about England's attack, but we did learn that the defence is pretty fragile. OK, what did we learn about Italy and France at San Siro tonight, Jules?

4:27Julien Laurens: I think we learned that the Mancini project is looking good, to be fair, with this kind of new, younger generation. There was only one player in the squad tonight above the age of 30, and that's Vicario, who is really the number three goalkeeper. We also learned that Gigi Donnarumma is still Gigi Donnarumma, very much so, and he can't play football with his feet. He's very good with his hands, but can't play football with his feet. He gave a goal away to Michael Ollise early. But there was good character, I think, from Italy and this young team to come back in the game. Assam Siro as well, where they hadn't played for quite a while on a terrible pitch, by the way.

4:59Julien Laurens: I don't know what happened there, but maybe they're already preparing the pitch for the new stadium, which was a bit of a shame. But I think this Italy team, as you would expect, make a lot of sense. It's very coherent in the way they play. and what I like in a way from Mancini and didn't really like from Zidane in the second half is that I think Zidane got given a bit of a tactical lesson by Mancini in the way that he went to a back three back five when Di Marco came on and Zidane had no answer and that was at 1-1 and after that Italy were the better team and won 3-1 so it could have been different France hit the woodwork twice at 1-1 but overall I think Italy deserved their win and that could be a big win in that new project It certainly could they moved to the top of the group on goal difference to Italy above France.

5:41David Hannigan writing in, of course we're live on YouTube right now saying Zidane's laissez-faire approach, that means just basically letting things go, Jules, to managing he's not suited to a younger French national team. We'll come on to Zidane and his choices and also, I'm not sure if there was in France an Mbappé controversy but there certainly was in the Italian papers. We'll come on to that a little bit later on but contractually, England first Duncan, your thoughts on England's performance and indeed in prospect of Spain on Sunday. How is that makeshift defence going to look, do you think?

6:20Well, I think Honza might be back, which would be big. I think Ben White might start just because his combination play with wide players. Sorry, I couldn't help it. Well, a few people at Wembley couldn't help it and they should be ashamed of themselves. Should they? Actually, Jad Mantore says, if you booed Ben White, you're a disgrace to your country. Yeah. Which is strong. Don't disagree. Yeah, it was all pretty moronic. I don't think it was quite as bad as last time. No, it seems to be. There were a few boos. The boos relate to his departure from the England camp at the start of the Qatar World Cup.

6:57Yeah, yeah. Widely rumoured to have had a bit of a falling out, potentially with Steve Holland. Steve Netherlands. Steve Netherlands back in the news today of course potentially being let go by Manchester United and yeah under Southgate it seemed that there was no way back for him the contentious issue was whether that was down to Southgate or the player but either way there was no reconciliation he's now back in the squad but he gave a really good interview on the sort of eve of the game saying obviously people don't know the full story but he refused to kind of give that story along the lines of he didn't want to throw anyone under the bus which I think is the right thing to do he's certainly not the first England player to sort of refuse or not want to play for their country.

7:39Just a year ago, Jude Bellingham wasn't in the squad. Reasons sort of unknown, falling out with Tuchel, suggestions that he was saying, I don't want to play in this international break. So to sort of pick out Ben White, probably more for reasons to do with who he is as a person rather than what has actually happened here, I think. I think, yeah, I think he... Or what people assume for him to be like... Yeah, I think his, yeah, how he comes across maybe when he's not playing football maybe is more an influence. If he was less tanned and his teeth were slightly yellow, I think it would be less of an issue.

8:11But also, if he was the sort of player that was that sort of player that, you know, wasn't 100 % trustworthy on the pitch, I don't think Mikel Arteta would be playing him week in, week out. Yeah, but also he hates football. Which I also sort of think is quite, you know, quite good. Going to go back to tonight's game. And you're billing him very much playing and involved. That was Harry Kane with his record England appearances. We'll touch on the festivities for Harry pre-game, perhaps after we talk a little bit more about the match. But England getting the scoring underway with Morgan Rodgers.

8:43Yeah, a lovely classic Kane coming deep, diagonal out wide, and clips of Bellingham who sort of put it across goal. And yeah, shock horror, a Man City player making an individual mistake. Not the only one tonight, certainly not the only one in recent weeks. There's a Guardiola who just misses the cross, basically, and Morgan Rodgers can't miss from six yards. It was a good finish, though, from Rodgers. Like, a deceptively good finish, because he sort of bounced it in, hit it on the ground, and then it looped up. You can easily sort of overlook how good, how technically good that was. He did the Cole Palmer celebration.

9:21He needs a new one, by the way. You can't just copy someone's celebration and just do it. No, it was his originally. Was it? Yeah. He nicked off. Cole Palmer stole it off him. Two kids. I didn't realise that. Yeah, which is obviously when Cole Palmer then trademarked it for a little bit, you know, but they're friends. So, Rodgers has been talking about Palmer after the game tonight and sort of, you know, question whether Cole Palmer's committed to England and, you know, does he want to come back? He says it's a lie that he doesn't want to be here, which sort of contradicts what Tuchel has said, which is pretty interesting.

9:52He says he wanted to get called up. He wanted to come here and represent this country like he's always done. so you know the suggestion from Tuchel the other day was the opposite which is pretty interesting pretty interesting Jules did you have any views on that or shall I move on to my next question which is does Gerald Quanzer play for Man City then given the way he decided that a slight tap back to the keeper might might be the right way to resolve how bad his mistake was

10:19Julien Laurens: yes it's very City-esque lately we saw Donnarumma making another one Vardjol as the boys just mentioned He could have well played for City, yeah, but he doesn't. He doesn't, no. That let Croatia back into the game. And it wasn't the only opportunity they had, Duncan. No, they had lots, particularly in sort of the closing stages when it was 2-1 to England. And on numerous occasions, particularly from set pieces, as Tim said, but Dan Byrne stood tall. I mean, he can't not. And was actually pretty effective at getting rid. But, yeah, it wasn't a comfortable performance from England. And it was basically like they needed to win this game to set up this big match for Spain on Sunday.

11:01And that was kind of, you know, get it over the line. Qwanta did make up for it by having his shirt pulled in the opposition box a couple of minutes later for the penalty. Barely five minutes later, it was he who went down, enabling Harry Kane to step up and cap this special night with a special moment. A penalty. It's 27th, I think, for England of his 92 that he's scored now. Yeah. Sort of quite calmly and gently down the middle. That's one of the great things about his penalty taking. You don't know what he's going to do. He can stick them at all angles, all tempos, etc. But yeah, just on Kwanzaa, I was kind of trying to think, you know, if he doesn't play, who does?

11:43Say if Kwanzaa and Gay, who by the way hasn't been playing too well for Man City either, is sort of out of the reckoning. John Stone's injury issues at Inter and sort of, you know, of a certain age now. Well, he is fit, I believe now. Okay, right. But the list is not great. Quanta, Dan Byrne, who wasn't even called up for this squad, we have to say, and is now in the team tonight. You've got Jared Branthwaite, James Hill. And then after that, you're sort of looking at Chalabar out in Como or Tamori at Milan. Terry Butcher. Terry Butcher, Harry Maguire. But there aren't sort of many youngsters coming through.

12:13So it is a bit of an issue, certainly going forward to 2028. All right. At the other end, though, what a selection of talents, even with some players like Saka out, doesn't seem to be a problem for England. And with Harry Kane in what may be the most splendorous moment of his career, what a week it's been, the New Deal, which I think makes him the highest paid player in Europe, a record number of England appearances. Yeah, Shilton was there to mark it. And pre-game parading his Ballon d 'Or. It was a huge Tifo. There was a magnificent banner with Kane 126. Not calling it a T-phone. Not going to call it a T-phone.

12:59But yeah. It already feels strange to me that 1-2-5 is no longer the number. You know, all my football support in life, it's been on 1-2-5 Shilton. Shilton's performance in the third place playoff in 1990 was so bad that I've always regarded it as 1-2-4. So, I mean, for me, I already celebrated Kane beating it last month. But he finally got a goal after four games without one. Jules, did you ever think back in the day when Harry Kane was turning out for Spurs that we would see him being that guy?

13:30Julien Laurens: No, not really. Certainly not at that kind of level because he will add another 10, 15, 20 caps for sure before he retires. There are probably another 15 goals, 20 goals again. And maybe Bellingham could beat the record of caps, maybe. maybe like a young player is coming through at some point later on maybe as well I think that amount of goals if Kane goes over 100 would be very difficult to beat so incredible incredible longevity incredible consistency in terms of goal scoring record and performances for England it's just a shame for you guys that he doesn't really show up in the big game that matters the most but for the rest it's great Potentially this Sunday could Harry Kane take those words and stick them right back down Jules' throat So we'll have to wait and see.

14:15But for now, you mentioned his goal-scoring record. Just to underline this, is it 93 with that penalty now for England? No, that's 92. So 92, the next best for England is 52, and that's Wayne Rooney. It's extraordinary. There can't be another country with a chasm of that nature between their first and second-highest scorers. Or maybe Argentina, I guess. The thing was with England is both... Portugal. Portugal, yeah. Two countries then. And Iran. And Toronto, of course. But yeah, you know, we can all stay countries. But it's funny with England. For so long, the Shilton record was almost untouchable.

14:54For so long, the Bobby Charlton record was untouchable. But they've just both been shattered by one man. And of course, Jack Charlton's famous record for the most internationals played in the calendar year, which has been equaled tonight by Elliot Anderson with 15 appearances. That's the big one. That is the big one. Yeah. Wow. I assumed when I saw that Elliot Anderson was about to potentially break that record on Sunday with his 16th appearance of the year, that it would be something that was broken in recent years. But it's quite nice to hear that it's one that was set in 66 with Jack Charlton.

15:23Because, you know, we go on about more internationals these days. Well, I guess there are a few back then as well. So what will Thomas Tuchel be thinking, apart from about that, as he prepares for Sunday's game in Madrid? Jules, do you have any thoughts about whether England have moved the needle at all in terms of their competitiveness with the top tier? You mentioned Kane not showing up for big games. Can England collectively prove that they belong in that conversation?

15:49Julien Laurens: We see, I mean, remember the famous debate that we had during the World Cup or before the World Cup? And I think it was Gordon talking about the two different styles and why England could not play like Spain. We never asked England to play like Spain anyway. It's pretty obvious that they can't reproduce that kind of football anyway. But it'd be interesting to see where they are at. Spain, who won again today, 43 games in a row unbeaten on the international scene, which is crazy, with the B team, by the way. So the big boys should be back for Sunday. I was a bit surprised that Tuchel waited the 78th minute to make a change, and there were three changes and not the five that he could have had.

16:28Julien Laurens: I find that a little bit strange when you play again on Sunday, a game that is by far more important. And I know the game was not wrapped up for England by then, but really it should have been. and you could have even controlled that game if you had made changes in the 65th minute, for example, after Kane scored the second goal. But let's see, maybe physically that could be an issue on Sunday, maybe not. I think England won't have much of the ball, but I think Kane, again, dropping deep could cause a problem. Bellingham making those runs like we saw today. I think Rodgers, even if playing on the right-hand side is not his best position, I thought, again, tonight, he did really, really well for a position that is not his best position.

17:04Julien Laurens: So I think England will have enough to cause problems to Spain. It's just how much can you contain the likes of Laminia, Mar and the rest. Interestingly, and I think Jules might be against this based on what you said in our previous pod, it looks like James Trafford will be in goal rather than Jordan Pickford. So Thomas Tuchel addressed this before the game and you would be averse to that decision. No, I think Trafford's really good and I can see why in a game where precise passing is key, he might be a better option than Pickford. But obviously he played in the game at Wembley and let in three goals.

17:39But I thought he had a pretty good game that night. How much does Sunday's game matter, Tim? How much does it matter to top the group? I don't think a huge amount. I think both England and Spain are through to the quarter finals. Do you know what? I'm really looking forward to March, whoever they sort of play. Last year's Nation League's knockout stage onwards was fantastic fun. I think every single tie didn't have more than a goal in it. you had Italy Germany Netherlands Spain there was like a few penalty shootouts obviously the final was great so I'm looking forward to England being involved in that in a sort of a you know almost a proper sort of a tournament environment and Sunday will just be another good test of their defence and it's going to be it's hard to imagine them going there and getting a win especially with Spain's record but yeah let's see what Tuka can build I don't see anything particularly special about this group going forward to 2028 but you know Sunday's another really good test.

18:34OK. They can't play Spain in the quarterfinals, so that's something, right? Hmm. Very good. Well, that's the situation post the events at Wembley. England's victory over Croce 2-1. 3-1, meanwhile, was the scoreline in Milan on Thursday evening as Italy defeated France. We'll talk about that next.

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21:36This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. Come on then, Jules. Italy, trois, France, une. Italy topping the group on goal difference, as we mentioned. Although they have to play Belgium in Belgium on Sunday and France will be taking on Turkey, who have lost every game so far and already relegated. and that's seen as a bit of a gimme, so three points for France likely. So Italy probably need to win against Belgium to maintain top spot in the group, but just a draw against the Belgians would be enough to qualify them for the quarterfinals.

22:24I think that Jules is either listening intently or has frozen. Well, let me tell you then about events at San Siro, erudite football observer that I am. Gigi Donnarumma was very much the hero for Italy in Paris in the previous game when he kept out innumerable French attacks and Italy were able to come away with a 1-1 draw. On this occasion, it didn't go quite so well. His grotesque misplacement of a pass out fell to probably the player you would least like it to fall to from an Italian perspective, Michael Alisse. I've not really seen a goalkeeper make that sort of pass before. like an angled cross the penalty box, no look through ball to the opposition.

23:12I've not read all the goalkeeper manuals, but I don't believe that's in any of them. Olicia has now scored or assisted in all five of his matches under Zinedine Zidane. The big news, though, from the Italian perspective was the way that they responded. This is a team that has seen from within Italy its character, its personality, its courage often questioned. But this tremendously young Italian side, as Jules was hinting on, responded brilliantly. Vergara came on a little bit later on, Di Marco as well, and they had a big impact. But Pio Esposito, first of all, with a glorious touch to equalise.

23:51equalised, that was eight goals in 14 caps, which put him level in terms of fastest players to score goals in their first Italian games with one Christian Vieri. But he then went and broke Vieri's record or bettered his goal per game ratio later on when he converted a penalty. In between that, his brother, Sebastian, Seba Esposito had stepped up because Mancini had gone with the two brothers and Cambiaghi from Bologna who actually set up the equaliser from Pio Esposito. His brother had tried taking a penalty, managed to fail that one. Frattese instead it was who made it 2-1 with a brilliant...

24:41You know what? That was... This is why I don't try and analyse games. That was the goal that Cambiaghi set up with a brilliant move. and then it was Pio Esposito who got his second from the spot and that's now 9 in 14 caps which is absolutely brilliant. Lovely to see this young Italian side. If only we had a podcast coming up. I was just going to say, I say that as someone who spent much of yesterday morning with you, Duncan, recording a podcast about why Italy have got so bad and will they ever get better. Lo and behold, the very next day, it's not due out for another week, that podcast. They go and beat France.

25:16A bit of lira in recompense. Right. Or maybe we just need to add a bit on the end of that one. Anyway, tremendous stuff from Italy. Well, importantly, Italy are now the unofficial world champions. Oh. Because you know this, you know, if you take the winner all the way back to the world. France took it off Turkey for the World Cup. Turkey taking it off USA. USA had taken it off Australia. Pat Beach had given up the unofficial World Cup. But yeah, Italy now unofficial world champion, so what a night overall. The pre-game, in the Italian papers at least, was enlivened by the news that Kylian Mbappé would not be taking part.

25:59Kylian Mbappé has had a variety of injuries keeping him out of matches through this season, and despite that, still been doing brilliantly when he has played. This occasion, it was put down as a thigh strain, but the Italian paper certainly suggesting that behind it wasn't so much a physical issue more than his dissatisfaction with Zinedine Zidane and his approach to team management. Mbappé, who I think is pretty much accepted, enjoyed pretty favourable treatment from Didier Deschamps, apparently is not getting anything like that from Zizou. And the suggestion from the Gazette and co. was that he had, as a result, told his manager that he wasn't fit to play.

26:43I don't know. Well, I'm curious to hear Jules' thoughts on that. Sadly, technology is not our friend in that ambition. But if we get him back up, as it were, then we can hear his thoughts. Speaking of getting him back up, though, I don't know if you were able to see when Fratezi scored that brilliant go-ahead goal for the Azzurri. He then leapt into the air in celebration and the cameras caught his state of excitement. Can I put it that way? Yeah. I see what you mean. We were going to use a still of Fratezi celebrating, but then we decided. Couldn't see the point. We couldn't see the point. Anyway, brilliant stuff from Italy.

27:28As I did mention, though, with the group the way it is, there is still a lot of work for them to do if they are to top the group. and I think there is beyond the draw is there something else you get from topping the group or is it just a better seeding in the quarterfinals? You play one of the second place teams so yeah, I mean we could be looking at an England-Italy quarterfinal. Alright, we're not looking at duels right now given that I'm going to move on and just highlight one or two of the other fixtures that are coming up in these exciting Nations League matches which let me remind you, conclude the group stage with the fixtures coming up over the next few days.

28:06On Friday, Netherlands and Greece, who are tied atop their group, A2, they're three points ahead of Germany, the pair of them, and they face each other on Friday. While Germany, who are very much the Noddington Forest of the Nations League, they've had 79 shots so far but only managed three goals, they will be away at Serbia. They followed that up with a home game against Netherlands on Monday night in Berlin. so that should be huge. Scotland, meanwhile, on Friday night, have a must-win game in B1. That's the second tier. They lie third in their group. They're up against the bottom team, North Macedonia.

28:44Switzerland already through to the quarterfinals. Hey, Jules is back. Well, you missed all the Italy-France chat, which is a shame because it was great. I'm sure it was. Yeah. What were your thoughts? And also, just in case we lose you again, can you shed any light on these stories that Mbappe has fallen out with Zidane?

29:04Julien Laurens: Fallen out with Zidane? I don't think so. I think it was not plain sailing, let's say, since Zidane arrived. Remember, Mbappe got injured in the first game against Turkey back in the first international break and then went home to Madrid. I think there were a few people within the national team set up who thought that injury was not that bad and they were not too convinced that it meant for Mbappé to miss the next three games after that initial game, the Turkey one. But I don't think that created too much tension between him and Zidane, to be fair. Although they've never been super close, despite both of them living in Madrid right now, and despite Zidane being Kylian's idol growing up, they were never super close, super friends.

29:51Julien Laurens: I just don't think there's tension. I don't think they fell out. I think it's an injury that Mbappé felt before this game. maybe didn't want to take any risk or something. And Zidane, who's quite laid back, to be honest, just said, OK, no problem. You can't play, then I'm going to pick another 11. So from what I've been told, it's not too deep and too serious, but it might actually be, and we will find out very soon anyway, because we're expecting Kylian to be able to play for what is a massive game now against Turkey on Sunday. Right. He didn't pull a Ben White, though. That's good to hear. Not that I'm aware of right now, but it's well possible.

30:27Julien Laurens: But I don't think so. The last international break was a bit strange because obviously there was this proper fallout this time between Mbappé and Dembele over the whole Ballon d 'Or and some of the things that Mbappé said in the promo of himself that he had in the running of the Ballon d 'Or ceremony. And Dembele was not too keen on what Mbappé said and it was quite cold between them when they've been friends for 15 years really before that. So it was a little bit strange in terms of the dynamic within that dressing room. but this time there's no Dembele Mbappe as we said missed the game tonight through injury so let's see if he's back but Zidane has to find out a team and they certainly have to play better than they did tonight OK well they'll be up against an opponent that's lost every single game so far in this Nations League qualifying following their very disappointing performance of the World Cup in the shape of Turkey tonight though they look so good at the start they got that gift from Gigi to put them on their way and then it looked like France were the team more likely to score again.

31:25What happened, Jules?

31:27Julien Laurens: Yeah, and then I thought the first half was decent from them, to be fair. Barcola hit the post towards the end. Cherki hit the post at the start of the second half. And then they lost their way a bit. They were very sloppy. And then defensively, this is obviously not the starting back four, really, in front of Mignon. You had Gusteau right back. You had Truffera left back. And then Upamecano, who's been great lately for France and for Bayern Munich, but was horrendous tonight, fought on the first goal by Pio Esposito, gave away the penalty for the third goal scored by Esposito as well and Jacquet was not much better despite being really good in the last international break he had a bit of a disaster tonight as well so there's fragility defensively and the problem in a way, more tactically Zidane plays with a midfield three with Scherke in that midfield three so it's a proper 4-3-3, now a 4-2-3-1 and when France don't have the ball there's a lot to exploit on the Scherke side of that midfield because he's obviously not defensive minded enough so you've got Rabiot on the other side you've got Hakuna in front of the back four, who already are not the most defensive-minded midfielders anyway.

32:28Julien Laurens: And then you've got Scherke, and that's exactly on that side that Italy did really well in that second half when Di Marco came on. The Fratesi goals come from there. The first penalty comes from there as well. And I think that could be a bit of an issue out of position for Zidane to have Scherke in that midfield three. OK. And will he try with Barcolas as the centre-forward again? It was Dwey who played at the number nine, which I think works. Barcolas was on the left-hand side and Olysee on the right-hand side. We had debut for Mayulu, for Kruppi, for Kubendi as well, who all made their debut tonight, which was really good to see.

33:01Julien Laurens: But I think if Mbappé can't play on Sunday, he will keep Dwey as the fourth nine. But I think Mbappé should be fit really for Sunday. OK, very good. Jules, that's fabulous. Big games coming up over the next few days before Sunday. I was just listing one or two of them. Scotland, just to say that again, because I made such a mention of it before, They're going to be taking on North Macedonia, Switzerland, who are already through to the quarterfinals. They'll be up against Slovenia Saturday. Tim, look out for Wales. They're in Norway. Wales currently third in their group. Norway are bottom. They've lost three straight games, including the reverse match against the Welsh.

33:38It's been snowing as well in Oslo. So conditions, yeah. Top two in that group are Portugal and Denmark, and they're going to be facing each other in Portugal's first game of their Ronaldo-less era. A Ronaldo-less era which may not continue for too long because, Tim, there are fresh Ronaldos on the way, aren't there? I was just going to say, I'm the guy who's just left Portugal training at the City of Football, I think, the equivalent of St George's Park, etc. And the room that Ronaldo would normally stay in has been left empty as a mark of respect to the great man. Wow. Well, he's still alive, I should stress.

34:13But anyway, so yeah. Lego in it set up as well. so Cristiano Ronaldo's son the footballer formerly known as Cristiano Ronaldo Jr he's now got a new name played for the under 17s for the first time today he's now known as Cristianino Cristianino I watched him play for the under 15s last year oh yeah the first time he played for them in a tiny village on the Croatian Slovenian border it was quite an occasion and the whole village sort of got wind that the man then owned. How many people are we talking? Several hundred. But it was a tiny village. There was like, you know, barely a stand to speak of.

34:54Ronaldo's mother was there, Dolores I think her name is, and dozens of them were queuing for selfies with Mrs. Ronaldo. Anyway, he was quite sort of tall and gangly and a bit awkward and you could tell he sort of, you know, still needs to sort of grow into himself. But yeah, he came on for the under-17s for the first time today. Is there a player in there, Tim? I haven't seen it yet, but you don't want to rhyme off at this tender age. Certainly don't. Northern Ireland in Hungary could be one to watch, says Nick Hambling. Thank you for pointing that out. Northern Ireland to a currently top of B2 and yet concede a goal.

35:31They don't score many, but they don't concede. They face Ukraine. And then on Tuesday they go to Hungary, where a win could take them up to the top flight where they've never been before. Also coming up, you're Austria against Republic of Ireland. That finished 2-2 in Dublin last month. You may recall the tremendous Troy Parrott goal and then Austria's brave, brave comeback when they... Not remonted. They came back two goals to equalise. Yes, those are games that are coming up. Excellent. We have Jules back. We have Tim and we have Duncan. and very shortly we'll wrap up today with a little bit of reaction to the other news that's been happening, and that is changes at Crystal Palace, changes at Old Trafford.

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39:11You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Yes, indeed. Who could have seen this coming? Piersage, gone. Michael Carrick, gone. And where are we on replacements? We're inching closer to Pochettino, to Old Trafford. Now, Tim and Duncan were with us yesterday when we did an emergency reaction pod to the huge news of his imminent arrival. Neither of you were particularly enthusiastic about his likely impact there. Jules, what's your take?

39:52Julien Laurens: I think he's got the personality for it. There's no doubt. I think he's got the kind of charisma. he's smart enough he's like a bit of a politician too so I think he would be able to deal with the kind of crisis atmosphere at the club right now pretty well that's the bride that he's always wanted right for many many years now that was the aim one of the one of the things that he wanted to achieve in his career was to coach this team come to this club he's there now he will do better than Michael Carrick because this is a squad that is better than 18th for sure but there's so many issues within that football club, not just the manager, but again, from the ownership to the people running the club on a daily basis, there's so much to do here.

40:34Julien Laurens: I think he's a bit of a builder, Pochettino, and we saw that at Spurs with a young squad that was far more suited to his style. I think his style is probably gone. It's a long time since we've seen the Pochettino style of football anyway. So he's a very different coach than he was at Spurs 10 years ago or so, but he's still not a very good squad either for what probably he would want to achieve. so he would need reinforcement in January. I'm sure he got some guarantees on that front, but United don't have much money either, so they would have to sell well before reinvesting that money. But I think they need to give him almost full power, which is something that he didn't get at Chelsea, certainly didn't get in Paris, or didn't get at Spurs either, to make it work.

41:13Julien Laurens: And that's something that he's always wanted. So let's see where that goes. But again, for me, the spine of the club, I say that often enough, The ownership, the CEO, the sporting director and the head coach manager have to be so aligned. And I just hope that they all agree that Pochettino is the right guy and they all agree to be fully behind him and giving that power. Otherwise, it's never going to work, even with him. OK. US have big games coming up against Haichi. Do we know whether Pochettino is sticking around for those and coming afterwards? How long will he have to prepare if it is to be him for the game at Anfield next weekend?

41:49the consensus is he's going to take charge of both games and then he'll have a day or two before the Liverpool game but that would be the case if he stepped in the door tomorrow because obviously all the most of the key players away on international duty anyway so I don't think that's going to be back on Monday so Haiti adored never ignored does that work? kind of indeed so indeed so meanwhile poor old Piersage leaving Crystal Palace Lens, I believe, one of his former clubs, Jules, fired their manager today? As well, on Monday. On Monday it was. Yeah. Okay. So, coincidence? I'm not sure. And is Thomas Frank likely to replace Piersage at Serherspark?

42:34Julien Laurens: I think so, yeah. He's the frontrunner, yeah. Frontrunner. Is that a good fit? I think you'd look at what United and Palace are doing and say that they've both upgraded their managers and their prospects look better. the teams in sort of 16th and 17th in the Premier League will now be sort of looking over their shoulders. I think that's what Forrest and Coventry. I mean, it's a funny one with Frank. Obviously, he did an exceptional job at Brentford, but that's an exceptionally well-run club with lots of people in senior positions above the head coach level that have been there for years. They take care of recruitment.

43:05It's obviously all data-led, you know. And the first job he gets post-Brentford at Spurs, Thomas Frank, he's a complete failure, extremely unpopular with players as we saw very publicly and with fans so look i'm not doubting that he's he's a good manager but to sort of expect him to repeat what he did at brentford it isn't going to happen you know you know is keith andrews a wonderful manager because the job he's doing at brentford i'm right piece about this last year it's an interesting question to pose as to how good a head coach you have to be at brentford so yeah i don't know um palace are in a bit of trouble i mean their recruitment's been been really really poor so he's going to find it very different circumstances there the good players that they've lost like Gay and Jose have not been sufficiently replaced so they're in a bit of trouble because it's quite it's pretty strong or it's a pretty even sort of mid to lower Premier League yeah is that right

43:57Julien Laurens: I think so make them better defensively which is which was part of the problem you can't concede that many goals give away that many chances being so open and exposed and in a way I like Sarge I don't know him at all you know I know he's French but he's not from Paris which is a shame for him but he was really naive I thought in many things that he did since arriving it's already a big step up to come as a French coach from Ligue 1 to the Premier League already and yet you arrive and in a way you just think that you're going to do it your way and that's it and he was far too naive in his communication in his tactics his relationship with the players all of that and I think in the end I feel a bit for him because he was so short and I would have I've liked him to stay a bit longer to see what he could have done, but there's no way you can keep him after that role.

44:43Julien Laurens: After that start of the season, it's the same for Carrick. But to be fair, I think Saj kind of asked a lot. A lot of the trouble that Saj got came from himself, basically, if you see what I mean. Right. I hear you. I hear you. Whoever replaces Carrick faces a big debut game away at Liverpool, and it's the same for whoever Crystal Palace's new manager is, is because this coming Premier League match day will be at Coventry, which is a bit of a relegation six-pointer. All right. Before any of that, though, there's the final set of Nations League qualifying games. And we will be back live on Sunday night right after the action at the Metropolitano as Spain take on England.

45:33Many thanks, Jules, for joining us. this evening despite all the many issues thanks for sticking with it Duncan thank you for coming in and you too Tim Spears also producers Jake and Charlie in the booth and everybody who followed us on YouTube or if you're just choosing to catch up with things now on a podcast we'll be back as I say on Sunday do hope you join us then for now from all of us here it's goodbye

46:02you've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

46:28The Athletic FC.

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