Cunha inspires epic United comeback as Barca ease past Villa

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1:53Liam Twomey: Toby Football Show with the Wednesday Champions League. today at Old Trafford. Football bloody hell as Red Devils turn game around and clock back the Roma. In Spain, big wins for PSG and Barca with an epic thumping for Villarreal and a Real 1-2 for Villa. There's Bayern beating Atletico Madrid, Everton's win at Newcastle back in the Premier League, West Ham and much more in this Totally Football show.

2:27Liam Twomey: I make it Wednesday, the 4th of November. It may not be for you, listener, but thank you for being with us for this latest Tootley Football Show, one that features Liam Toomey. Hello, James. Hi to you, Liam. Lovely to see you. Jack Lang's also with us. Hi, James. All right, Jack. Yeah, good to hear you. You're looking so fashion.

2:45James Richardson: Coming from you, that means... Do you think?

2:47Liam Twomey: So much.

2:47James Richardson: Really? Yeah.

2:49Liam Twomey: I feel like Jack's just thrown an enormous amount of shade on me. No. On the big screen, we've got Charlie Eccleshare. Hello. Hi. Live from paternity leave. Charlie, how is paternity and leave? Yes, going well. It's tiring. I was up very early this morning but was able to watch the CNN election coverage. So, yeah, good start to the day. Indeed. Well, Tuesday night we were all busy watching Champions League games. All the matches on Tuesday beginning with a minute's silence in memory of the Tenerife striker, Jesus de Miguel, who died on Tuesday morning in hospital after a horrific collision in a second division Spanish match on Monday.

3:35Liam Twomey: In the final minutes, essentially, of the game with Andorra, he collided or was collided with by the Andorra goalkeeper, was taken to hospital and sadly passed away there on Tuesday morning. Our thoughts with his family, friends, and everyone affected by this really terrible event. Champions League, the headlines. Manchester United, extraordinary turnaround for them. Adol Trafford against Roma, 2-0 down and booed off at half-time, roaring back to win 3-2. Aster Villa, meanwhile, had chances away at Barcelona, but ended up the wrong end of a 3-0 defeat. Emery's losing streak against the Catalans continuing.

4:15Liam Twomey: Bayern Munich with 2-0 winners away to Atletico Madrid. No goals for Harry Kane there, but some glorious passes and things. PSG, record-breakingly good. In their 6-0 defeat of Villarreal, four goals in eight minutes they scored. While Slovan Bratislava are also breaking records, their 4-0 defeat to Linz, or LASK, means that Yaya Turi's side have had four games, four defeats, conceding an average of over four goals a game and have so far scored just one. Galatasaray Beach, Stuttgart 2-0. Sporting continued their excellent start, beating Shakhtar 1-0 at Stamford Bridge. Inter with 3-0 winners at Feyenoord.

4:54Liam Twomey: Jed Spence, man of the match for UEFA, contributing his first assist for the Netazori. And Bodo Glimt against Lille was goalless. We're going to begin with events at Old Trafford. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Man United 3, Roma 2 on Tuesday evening at Old Trafford. Jack Lang, you were in charge of this for us. What a hilarious game of football.

5:20James Richardson: It was so weird because they were terrible. They were really terrible. Roma were all over them in the first half, could have scored more than two. Like Sule clipped the post with a shot just before halftime. They were running them ragged and United just couldn't do anything with the ball. Every pass was under hit or over hit. Every player was receiving the ball back to goal with the marker right on him. There was no pattern. There was no player who had any space at any time. It was amazing how few passes they put together in the first half. And then the funny thing was they kept asking. They asked Wayne Rooney.

6:09James Richardson: The commentators were talking about this. It's like, what has changed the half-time? And the answer was like, they got really lucky, incredibly lucky. They got a penalty which looked incredibly soft. None of the replays, I guess the VAR check, it made sense if the referee gave it because the replays showed you nothing, not conclusive either way. It looked that way. If there was a touch previously for a Mancini, it wasn't shown on any TV angle. It looked really soft to me and Mancini's reaction suggested there wasn't a lot in it. then they get to retake the missed pen

6:42Liam Twomey: for encroachment. Which is fair because it was Cristante who cleared the ball once it had been saved brilliantly.

6:49James Richardson: But I'm not sure he was in the area. He was leaning into it but his foot was on the line. So anyway, stroke of luck either way. And then an all-time defensive howler from Leonardo Beledi. I've actually got written in my notes I haven't deleted it because I wanted it just to be able to look at it. I wrote first half, Beledi brilliant. Oh, there you go. Oh, same... Oh, no, not as a pun. Sorry, yeah, that was accidental. But he was really good in the first half. He was so dominant.

7:17Liam Twomey: There was one particular tackle he put in at the start of the second half as well that was really good. Oh, and Invermo, I think.

7:21James Richardson: Yeah, racing back. He was really good. Roma were brilliant, and that was the most inexplicable error.

7:26Liam Twomey: Yeah, I mean, Roma are... They are a bit like this. They're not a serious football club. They're a bit like... Do you remember Wacky Races? I do. Yeah, there would typically be one crew who would go off... They would strap some contraction to the back of their vehicle and blaze off at the start of the episode. But lo and behold, they would blow up well before the finish line. The Dortmund of Italy. Yeah. And Roma, with the exception of the brief period that they had Fabio Capello as manager, when they got serious, they are this kind of side. And, you know, they've done that not just in the Champions League this season, where famously they were 2-0 up against Real Madrid with minutes to go and ended up losing 3-2.

8:01Liam Twomey: But they've done it against Inter, Atalanta, Fenerbahce, even Udinese at the weekend. Again, they let them back in at the start of the second half, which is exactly what happened here. United fans might say, well, we were also unlucky because there was that extraordinary chance moments after the penalty. It was Mbembe, who hit both posts, had his shot come off both posts. And then after the Baleidi swing and a miss, Cunha with a brilliant finish.

8:30James Richardson: Yeah, third goal was brilliant, to be fair. really good play on the wing by Shea Lacey a great first touch and a great ball and a superb finish they seized the initiative once it was presented to them I don't you know there was momentum in that final stage you can't deny it the crowd got behind them there was belief visibly flowing through the players which had been completely absent before that so credit to them for making the most of what was given to them but it was given to them

9:01Liam Twomey: Given the chasm that we've seen of late between the fans and the team, the sight of Cunha then leaping, crowd surfing into the same Old Trafford faithful who had been booing the team off at halftime and lobbing objects indeed at the start of the second half. What do you think that represents? At the least, can we say there is still a football team in this Man United set up?

9:22James Richardson: Yeah, I think so. I think that was, he also very visibly held the badge and pointed to the badge. And so it suggested to me that there is still some pride in some areas of the playing squad. Obviously, we've seen some pretty big public flame-outs from what are supposed to be senior players in recent weeks. Kunyuz, yeah, his reaction was, I think, a positive thing if you're a Man United fan. And obviously then did get sent off partly because he got booked for. But I think that's no major.

9:56Liam Twomey: Well, he'll miss the next one, which is against sporting.

9:58James Richardson: And I actually think there was a slightly odd exchange at the end. He came back onto the pitch to celebrate and Carrick didn't say anything. He didn't seem happy to see him. I think he basically was, it seemed to be like, get off the pitch or you're going to be suspended. Oh, yeah. True. Celebrating while you've been sent off. Charlie. Yeah, I mean, I do think there is something a bit unserious about Kynia doing that, like straight away getting the booking for a really stupid tackle. Clearly adrenaline's just cursing through him, which is totally understandable. But I think it's the sort of thing that in a few weeks when United are next in crisis, that will be rewritten as, see, you know, all they did was beat Roma, a Roma who gave them a win and they're celebrating like they've won the World Cup and he's suspended and they lose to Sporting kind of thing.

10:48which maybe is being harsh, let them have their moment. But it didn't feel to me like, yeah, they've silenced the doubters. They're a proper team here. It felt like a kind of adrenaline-filled comeback, very similar to the one that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's United did against Gasparini's Atalanta. 2-0 down at halftime, 1-3-2, and Solskjaer was sacked within a few weeks, and it kind of meant nothing.

11:14Liam Twomey: Extraordinary. Extraordinary how there is that parallel, though. One thing that was unparalleled was the fact that United were down within, what, 16 minutes and four seconds. They were two goals down, which is the worst ever start they've had in a European competition. But they did come roaring back. So for all the gifts that Roma gave them, I think we have to salute that, no? Given the way our recent matches have gone. Well, it's certainly better when you decide to defend the left half of your pitch, which is United just completely forewent that spot and Sule. I don't know how competent you have to be to notice that vast expanse of space and just jog into it, but he did twice and scored himself once.

11:59So, yeah, they were asleep at the wheel in a way that we've seen United be asleep at the wheel quite a lot in the last couple of months and then managed to rouse themselves just enough.

12:09Liam Twomey: Yeah, there was a totally different attitude and, dare I say, hunger. I think Roma obviously played into it. And Gasparini's selections didn't, or at least substitutions, didn't really help. And he afterwards was pointing to the injuries they've got, which are notable. But also, they don't have that kind of depth. And Pisiglia, who came on for Moura, I think, was a big, big drop. And Moura had set up essentially the first two goals. Roma should have had Moura by half-time. The Castro miss was huge. The moment when Marlon was presented with a through ball and somehow failed to control it. Anyway, well done, Man United.

12:44Liam Twomey: What will it mean? We shall see. Who have they got at the weekend, Man United? Villa. Aston Villa. Wow. They'll be hosting Aston Villa Sunday, 4.30. No Carlos Belaba, though, because among the negative aspects was him going through on goal and then suddenly pulling up with what looked like a nasty hamstring injury.

13:05James Richardson: Yeah, he looked really gutted. that was pretty much the first thing he'd done in the game as well he is an interesting player I'm not incredibly convinced by him in his early days I think he's very good on the ball but I mean not to keep going back to the negatives in a game that Man United won but in that first hour the amount that Man United's midfield was walking I've never seen such a walking pace midfield like him and him and Maynou in even in the defensive phase they were just walking so often um yeah but Labour I think is is a talent but I think he has to Charlie get fit yeah I guess where they do deserve credit um I mean on top of just the comeback because like when that happened when that injury happened it would have been easy to think like what else is going to go wrong you know this is just one of those nightmare evenings because it was like the one time a player had shown initiative and tried to make something happen, his hamstring goes.

14:04And then when Bruno Fernandes missed that penalty, it looked like that thing was carrying on and then they got the reprieve, like Jack said.

14:10Liam Twomey: His face before, the director very kindly gave us a nice close-up of Bruno Fernandes' face while he stood waiting for the VAR check to take his penalty kick. And it was a picture of misery, of despondency. He's an open book, Bruno Fernandes, for better or worse. I remember the clip circulating of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer a few weeks ago saying why Harry Maguire had been his captain when he was Manchester United manager. And he basically said Bruno Fernandes is too emotional. Right. I love him as a player, but he's too emotional. And I think that's played out in his United captaincy in good times and in bad.

14:48He can really harness that and bend matches to his will. but I mean I even saw it when United played against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge doing his whole one-man press thing when the game is out of reach just almost like he's punishing his own body by making himself run more knowing he's not going to get the ball but there's something a little bit emotional and performative about it.

15:12Liam Twomey: Well there you go Man United supporters delighted with the comeback Aston Villa supporters possibly delighted that Michael Carrick will still be in charge when they visit Old Trafford at the weekend, by which time, of course, Sunday afternoon, United could well be in the bottom three when they host the Villas. Villas have not had the best of weeks themselves, of course, because they drew 1-1 with Fulham at the weekend and then got done 3-0 at the Camp Nou on Tuesday night. Jack, there was something exciting to you about Charlie's delivery just then.

15:43James Richardson: Yeah, Charlie, on another podcast, the very good football cliches podcast, Charlie does. an impeccable, I believe it's called generic pundit voice, well worth seeking out on that podcast.

15:57Liam Twomey: Could you give us a sample, Charlie? Well, I tend to just slip into it, so it may well happen at some point. It's kind of what I do if I'm imagining what is the default take on any situation, and then, yeah, try and rub up against that. Sometimes it is the correct take, but often not. It's the voice I'm after. So give us the default take on Man United after this Ferguson-esque late, late comeback against Roma. I wonder if this is a platform for Michael Carrick. You know, he's got to use this and sort of galvanise the players, but it's not going to change overnight. And there are deeper problems at this football club.

16:37There really are. You know, this goes way beyond Carrick. This is board level. And until that gets sorted, you can change your manager as much as you like. Like, nothing is going to actually change fundamentally for this football club.

16:50Liam Twomey: Wow, that's so impressive, Charlie. Yeah. And it makes me wonder whether so many of those pundits, whether Gary Neville, for example, off-air, actually speaks for the luxurious southern home counties accent, very possibly. Home counties, PA. Excellent. Hey, let's talk about Barcelona-Aston Villa next.

17:17Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of the best one yet behind every episode. There's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google doc, the headline hammer with Google workspace with Gemini. Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools. We already use like Gmail docs and sheets, no new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's go.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

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19:17Liam Twomey: Hey Charlie, use whatever voice you want for this. But you were watching your kind of official match to cover on Tuesday night was Barcelona 3, Aston Villa 0. How 3-0 was this 3-0? Well, overall, pretty 3-0. I mean, the first half was pretty close and Villa had chances. Barca looked really open. That kind of classic thing with them. And this was true a bit under Pep as well, where you'd be like, if they can actually just beat the press and make a pass, then they've got like a four on two or something. And obviously, that's especially the case now because Barca holds such a high line. occasionally Villa were able to get in behind but then they're finishing at them down a bit and then the second half Barca kind of took over once they got the second Villa kind of faded a bit I mean that said once it went to 3-0 Villa again had quite a few chances and came close but by that point it was kind of over as a contest Right and Barcelona had kept their first clean sheet in 19 Champions League matches yikes I mean the most remarkable thing from this game was Cancelo's assist for Rafinha's second.

20:30Unbelievable outside of the boot pass on his right foot from the left-hand side. Really. And he's done that sort of thing before for City. But yeah, it was a lovely goal.

20:40Liam Twomey: OK, we also saw Lamin-Yama with his 13th goal of the season after we talked about Roma's gifts. But what was Gio Gomez thinking? Yeah, I mean, that was suboptimal. It was slightly frustrating, though, because on commentary, they kept being like, if Villa stop taking these chances, if they cut that out, they'd have a real chance here while also kind of praising their ability to get in behind Barcelona. It was like a lot of that is happening because they're taking those chances defensively and they're drawing Barcelona onto them and then beating the press and then opening up the space. It's a shame.

21:22I love Suzuki. I think he's amazing. I just love his vibe and how confident he is. I hope it doesn't affect that at all, because it did happen a couple of times. I think Barca were a step up to what Villarie used to when they're trying to play out. I thought the commentary team were really harsh on Suzuki, basically saying he still hasn't learned his lesson. He's being told to play that way. Exactly. He's being told to play those passes. And I remember our athletic colleague, Stu James, James wrote, I believe last year, a piece about the most dangerous pass in football.

21:55Liam Twomey: Oh yeah, which one is it? Which is straight out from the goalkeeper to the edge of the penalty area, usually to a defensive midfielder who's receiving with his back to all manner of pressure. Right. And we've seen so many turnovers, haven't we, in those situations, particularly when you've got a team as adept and as fast and as furious pressing as Barcelona. And it actually felt like there was a part of this Champions League match night that was a monument to that pass because that pass killed Villarreal against PSG as well. I mean, there is obviously always going to be playing out through pressure and baiting the press and that's always going to be part of the tactical landscape.

22:34But part of me thinks we might look back on this era of football and think what were some teams doing?

22:40Liam Twomey: What were they thinking? What was the thinking, Charlie? Yes. Russell Martinification. Yeah, it's a really hard thing to do unless you're really good and when you come up against really, really good opposition, you can get exposed. And it's such a tightrope. If you make a mistake there, like what happened with Villa, like what happened with Villarreal, it's really, really costly.

22:59James Richardson: It's also, I think, really dependent on the personnel. So even if Villa are taking those risks, and I think Suzuki is a great passer, if the guy you're passing to is Joel Gomez, he's a good player in many ways, but he's not impeccable on the ball. He's not a brilliant technician. He's a kind of scuttling, pressing demon. He's not a great passer. So when the first pass for the first goal goes to his left foot, it's just not a great situation. So maybe if you are going to play that way, you play a slightly more possession-comfortable player in the role of the guy who's going to get the ball.

23:37Liam Twomey: That makes sense. Which is the safest pass, according to Stuart James? I don't think that was defined in the same piece, no. But I do remember Jose Mourinho once instructing his team, no first station passes. And he classified that as sort of one pass away from the goalkeeper. So anywhere in the back four, basically, when they were playing a high pressing opponent, never play those passes. Now that maybe is too far the other way. But I feel like maybe some teams need to come up with more sophisticated plans, plans, whether it's like a little chip out to the wing or something, rather than just playing the ball into a defensive midfielder against Barcelona or PSG or one of these crazy talented teams.

24:21James Richardson: First kickoff of the match is pretty safe, I'd say. Yeah, I think. Well, yeah. Although, well, the punt to the corner flag. Yeah, he's given it away.

24:29Liam Twomey: I remember Mourinho's tactics against Barcelona, famously with Inter, where he essentially instructed his team to give the ball away because if they had the ball, they would get out of their defensive shape. So yeah, just stay clear of the ball. Don't get any ideas about playing football here. Maintain the shield wall. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Right, OK, so there you go. Aston Villa, who for now are still third in the Champions League league. But there's a bunch of games coming up on Wednesday that will, you would think, probably change that. Bayern Munich, after a couple of draws in this competition on Tuesday night with a very impressive 2-0 away to Atletico Madrid.

25:09Liam Twomey: How impressive was the performance for you, Liam? Yeah, they were very good, very convincing, especially given that Atletico had really set out to make the game difficult for them. It was a more traditional Atletico game plan. Atletico had become a very different type of team under Diego Simeone in recent years, but when they play a team like Bayern and they know that they're outgunned, they do tend to fall back on that old identity of let's control the central space keep it contact keep it compact keep it narrow and harry kane didn't have a lot of room in his normal number nine positions but of course he drifts he moves he he playmates from deep it also wasn't a particularly amazing game for michael alice either um and yet bayern kept pressure pretty consistent pressure.

26:01I'd say Alexander Sauloth had a couple of sort of bustling runs in the channels where he caused Bayern some problems but Ili and Alvarez was really quiet. Atletico's counter opportunities were really limited and eventually Bayern forced some mistakes of their own from Atletico and punished them ruthlessly.

26:20Liam Twomey: Punished them. No shots on target from either side in the first half so it was a bit of a drab watch for you while all sorts of things were happening elsewhere. Tactically absorbing. Tactically absorbing. and then Lennart Karl got the opener. The lime he didn't score but the limer did might be the subheadline. Yeah, a lovely goal as well for Conrad. Yeah, well, both goals were really well taken to be honest. Lennart Karl kind of pounced on a mistake but then when he did have the ball under control it was a lovely little controlled dink over Jan O 'Black. And if you want to impress Real Madrid which we're told Lennart Karl maybe does.

26:55Oh, right. He's made comments in the past that have annoyed Bayern Scoring against Atletico is not a bad start. That's true.

27:01Liam Twomey: How old is he now? Is he still 16? I don't know if he's quite... Oh, no, he's 18. It's 18. 18-year-old Leonard Carr. He's very, very polished. And then Lima's finish was superb. I believe it was Kane's ball over, dropping deep and playing a lovely diagonal into him. And he actually, what?

27:20James Richardson: The defender, I think it was Hanchko, did the same thing that Andre Santos had done for the Morgan Rodgers goal against Man United the weekend. Basically just have a lie down in the vague vicinity of a goal happening. Yeah, that's great. Sorry, I didn't mean to say what in quite a harsh fashion there. I just saw you stir and knew you had something to offer. But it was funny that Lima kind of received the ball and took a beat to really assess his options and just thought, you know what? Nothing's on in the middle. I'm just going to smash this. Smash it. And found the tiny window above Oblak into the roof of the net.

27:56It was very satisfying.

27:57Liam Twomey: Very nice. 2-0. All this under the auspices of Aaron Danks, who's still in charge of Bayern because Vinny Kompany is still not well. Yeah, so Kompany's been discharged from hospital a few days ago, continuing his recovery. So hopefully he's back sooner rather than later. But all the signs are Bayern aren't missing a beat under Aaron Danks. As for Atletico, a bit of a setback for them in the Champions League. In La Liga, meanwhile, they've got a huge game on Saturday. They are the closest rivals to Barcelona, two points behind them, and they'll be hosting the Catalans this Saturday evening. Crikey.

28:32Liam Twomey: All right. As for the rest, well, the standout result has to be Paris Saint-Germain's 6-0 victory of Villarreal. It was 0-0 after eight minutes and then very much not shortly afterwards. 4-0 after 16 minutes. That's the earliest any team has ever scored four goals in a Champions League match. For Villarreal, it's their record European defeat. Not surprisingly. Woof. How good were Paris Saint-Germain, top of the table in the Champions League? Very good pressing. Very aggressive. Lots of first station passes from Real. So many. Every goal was basically a high ball recovery from PSG and then two, three maximum quick passes.

29:15Aklayouche, I think, was really, really good at looking up and finding the right option open. He did that on a couple of occasions. It was another goal that was just a straight run from Fabian Ruiz. that I think the live coverage didn't even properly catch because it happened so quickly. It was just a ball clipped through from Vitinha. He just took a little touch and let Renato Vega slide into a different postcode. Glorious. Slipped the ball through the leg. So it was very ruthless and elegant from PSG in a way that we've become familiar with. But I think Villarreal made it very, very easy for them.

29:48We have become very familiar with this. but the only slight unfamiliarity is they've they have started slowly in this extended group stage before haven't they whereas here you know they're more or less through already and given you know they rest players a lot for the league anyway they can now rest them for the champions league and maybe say some of them yeah see you in a couple of months put your feet up

30:08Liam Twomey: extraordinary four wins out of four they scored 20 goals in the competition they've got 10 wins in a row in all competitions now and as you say whereas we've seen psg maybe wait until the spring to really hit top gear, certainly in Europe. This time around, they seem to be in a bit more of a hurry. Elsewhere, Inter bounce back from Saturday night's Milan Derby defeat by beating Feyenoord 3-0 in the Netherlands. With Jed Spence, I think I mentioned this, he was named man of the match by UEFA after contributing his first assist. Came very close to being a Derby hero on Saturday night, of course.

30:44Liam Twomey: Inter was still without Lautaro Martinez, but a huge result that for them and their European ambitions. Linz, how about that side from Linz? Lask, 4-0 against Slovan Bratislava, although everybody beats Slovan Bratislava by at least four goals. Jai Otore, the manager there, of course. He's become the first manager to lose four Champions League, his first four Champions League games by three plus goals. And they're second in the Slovak League as well. So it's not going well. Easily have been a lot worse. Could it, Charlie? They missed some really good chances. after going 4-0 up. Well, Sasha Klaizic, I think, was only on the pitch for a couple of minutes as a late sub and could have scored a hat-trick.

31:22Good Lord.

31:23James Richardson: They also had the goal scorer who sounds the most like a prescription drug in Champions League history. Who's that, Jack? I'll take some of that adinaran, thanks.

31:33Liam Twomey: Ooh, OK. Bodo Glimt against Lille was 0-0. Sporting, with Issa Dumbia scoring for the second Champions League game in a row, 0-1, 1-0 at Stamford Bridge against Shakhtar Donetsk. And it'll be sporting, as we mentioned before, against Man United next time out. And Galatasaray with a brace for the Russian player Batrakov. What does that sound like? Let's not even go there.

32:00James Richardson: I've never heard of him. Had to Google. OK. What did you find out? Good finishes there. Young Russian player, formerly of Lokomotiv Moscow. Boom. Took his first goal really well. The ball came to him unexpectedly and he killed it with his first touch and then managed to get enough elevation on it. He could only really score into the roof of the net from where he was. Wow. It's impressive. Very nice.

32:23Liam Twomey: There you go. That was Champions League, match day for part one. Wednesday night will bring a whole further set of fixtures and, of course, Thursday morning we'll be dissecting those. Next up, though, let's talk a little bit about West Ham and what happened Monday night at St James'.

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35:28saw another athletic

35:30Liam Twomey: exclusive, the Soar Away Online Journal, the first to break the news that West Ham had parted company with their manager Nuno Espirito Santo. West Ham have been doing reasonably well. They're in eighth place in the championship, which is kind of playoff positions. However, not two weeks ago they were second, but back-to-back defeats apparently had spooked the club to the extent that they ditched Nuno and are hiring Scott Parker. Scott Parker, everybody. who's had three recent jobs in the Championship alongside his successful stint playing Cyril Kahn in the TV show Andor. But in each one of his recent Championship jobs, of course, he's won promotion.

36:10Liam Twomey: What happens afterwards? We don't need to trouble ourselves with that. But in terms of winning promotion, a bit of a specialist. Is this a good move for West Ham? Anybody? He knows the league and he gets the club. Boom. What more could he want? Say it in a pundit voice, Liam. Oh, no, I can't match Charlie's. pundit voice credentials it is a very nose the club situation i mean i do think in this kind of instance like we often talk about how ruthless football clubs are with their managers but sometimes i think there's almost like a lack of ruthlessness and let's just be honest and west ham say scott please get us up and then once he does maybe rather than doing the dance of sacking him in october when west ham make a terrible start in the league get rid in the summer thanks very much start again I mean look at Michael Carrick to an extent this might sound really harsh but I think most people this isn't being wise after the event I mean I guess they had to give him the job it would have seemed too mean and cruel but all the data if you believe in in that um showed they ran pretty hot he did a great job got them in Champions League again thanks very much but we're not sure you're necessarily long-term the solution I mean Liam you remember Chelsea Roberto Di Matteo in 2012.

37:25Again, would have been really harsh, but I know he had. I know he had, but they kind of varianced their way to that win. I don't think it was ever going to be this kind of great dynasty. So yeah, I just wonder if West Ham, yeah, what they do with that, how they do approach that. Because he is a great manager at getting teams out of the Championship, but Premier League? Not so much. So you're saying there's a case for them to become the first club to put a break clause in a manager's contract if he gets promoted? Just give him like a seven-month contract.

37:56James Richardson: He could negotiate that really well. Massive bonus. Yeah. Gets to have a few years off. Lovely.

38:01Liam Twomey: I have two additional questions. One is the, you were mentioning the opposite of ruthlessness. Surely that must be ruthness. If the... Ruthfulness? Yeah. I'm going with ruthness. And secondly, eighth is not disastrous. They'd had, as I say, back-to-back defeats, but it's very early in the season. Was there some underlying distrust or mistrust of Nuno Spiritsa Santo beyond the fact that he'd taken them down, of course, last season? Well, I mean, it always felt that it wasn't going to take a huge amount for there to be a split. I don't feel like the fan base ever particularly took to him. And obviously, whenever you go down, you're at risk.

38:41So, yeah.

38:42Liam Twomey: All right. Fair. It doesn't come as a huge surprise. OK, then. Mark Noble will be in charge of the Hammers this Wednesday evening. they're away to Cardiff with a team of coaches apparently doing the interim job before whoever it is but we're hearing Scott Parker takes over. Now meanwhile in the exciting Premier League on Monday there was a less than exciting match between Newcastle and Everton. It was Everton's first away win in the Premier League since last February when they won at well Newcastle. In fact David Moyes has won all three of his visits to St James' Park. And he also added a victory against Newcastle, just a few days before this, at the Hill Dickinson in the Carabao Cup.

39:27Liam Twomey: So excellent stuff for the increasingly thin Everton squad. Of course, they've now lost Jack Grealish from that for the... By choice. By choice, yeah. But he wasn't featured in the squad for this neither. For fitness reasons, we hear. It wasn't a classic game. Newcastle United, like another United, is booed off by their fans at halftime and certainly at the end as well. A lot of people calling it Newcastle's worst performance of the season. So, yeah, five defeats in their last seven. So they've had one or two of those. And Mataj Jasler increasingly under fire as Newcastle manager. Is that fair?

40:07Well, Newcastle feel like they've quietly become one of the more depressing clubs in the league right now, haven't they? Since Eddie Howe decided to up and leave, not that he was necessarily the one holding everything together, but the fact that he decided to walk, I think was a pretty damning indictment of where he felt the project was going. Right. And then... Lost to Nali and Bruno Gimeraj. Yeah, of course. The steady exodus of their top names over the last 18 months to two years and the general sense that maybe PIF is not really considering Newcastle as a priority, which I think has been the impression for a while.

40:48But with every transfer window, it seems to become more and more clear. And Jaesel, I think, is someone who'd been touted for a Premier League opportunity for quite a few years, certainly when he was in the Red Bull system and then he made the decision to go to Saudi instead for a little while. So he's had a bit of a funny path here and it doesn't feel like he's necessarily come in and won everyone over with his charisma from day one. And they just don't have a ton of talent in their team. It doesn't appear that way at the moment.

41:24Liam Twomey: Although do Everton. And look, if they win against Coventry, I almost went into pundit mode myself there. It's easy to do. Look, if Everton win against Coventry at the Hill-Dinkinson on Friday, they'll move level with fourth-place Chelsea. Extraordinary.

41:45James Richardson: He's doing a great job, Moyes, I think. They are very reliant on Tiano Barry, and he's not a very reliable player necessarily, but keep picking someone. He keeps trying, and he did score the winner here, and he has scored some important goals. He's not the most convincing always. But to some degree, the squad changes over the summer and now this Greela situation. It has a simplifying effect. Like David Moyes knows who he's going to pick because there isn't really anyone else. And they have, you know, Keenan Dewsbury Hall is a really, really good player. I think Tyreek George has actually surprised me with how good he's been since he's come into the team.

42:28James Richardson: I didn't know he was as good as he has been. And yeah, quietly impressive. Obviously, they'd love to play Newcastle every week. I guess you're right, Jimbo. Neither team, you could say, has a huge difference in talent. I think where there is a big difference with these two teams is that identity. And I think Newcastle have lost that. St James, for a period under Howe, was a really tough assignment. and they had an edge to them, a nastiness. I think losing someone like Bruno Guimaraes, who typified that in many ways. So they're a little bit between things. And we saw with Iriola at Bournemouth, he made a really poor start, needed a bit of time to set it around.

43:13So I'm not saying that will necessarily happen, but sometimes when you are managing a big transition, and also in his case, coming after Eddie Howe, who was there for so long, and the club was built in his image for a period. so yeah OK let's hope the club are ruth with him

43:28Liam Twomey: and not ruthless we shall see very good I'm not sure who Newcastle are playing over at the weekend we can talk about that though on Thursday's show one will be previewing match day 10 of this Premier League campaign as well as reviewing as I mentioned Wednesday's game which game are you most looking forward to Jack? Fixtures to hand?

43:48James Richardson: probably V-King against Sabah

43:51Liam Twomey: it's the first ever meeting surely of a

43:53James Richardson: You would really expect it to be. And that's a Pujani in a Norwegian side. Yeah. But I will probably actually watch... I'm not sure. Maybe Leipzig City. It's not the best. It's not the best. It's not the best evening.

44:06Liam Twomey: But Leipzig City does suggest the potential for... If Leipzig winning would be considered an upset. Because they actually haven't been... I think they haven't conceded a single goal at home so far this season in all competitions. RB. But yeah. I'm intrigued by Lens versus Como. just generally quite invested in Como's first Champions League adventure and they're a nice team to watch they are excellent Charlie anything for you? yeah I think it is Leipzig against City though obviously City at the moment is a bit of a weird watching experience but if you can take that out of it that should be quite an interesting game alright the early games which may well be underway by the time you hear this A.K.

44:47Liam Twomey: Athens gets Real Madrid and also Liverpool's trip to Fenerbahce So, yeah, there's some fun there, potentially. We'll be reviewing all of it anyway in Thursday's show. So do join us again for that. For now, many, many thanks to Charlie and to Jack and to Liam and to Benji and Charlie in the booth and you, dear listener. From all of us here at Totally Football Show, it's goodbye.

45:15You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

45:41The Athletic FC.

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