Al-Hilal surprise Trent’s Real, plus a first glimpse of new Man City

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1:45James Horncastle: The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

2:21Totally Football Show. competition, raising more questions than it answers, must be the InterTotally Cup 2025 edition. It's the Totally Football Show.

2:38Thursday, the 19th of June. Listen, hello. It's another special remote show because we're repainting our studio, did you know? I don't know what the design's going to be, but as of next week, you'll be able to catch us on our YouTube channel and see, I think, probably flowers. That's what I'm expecting. But who knows? Everything will be revealed next week. Duncan Alexander is here. Hey, Duncan. A little bit bleary-eyed there, Duncan. Slightly, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Up late watching Pachuca FC Salzburg? I'll be honest, no. But I was working until quite late last night, and I'd just come back from some very hot cycling in Spain.

3:19Possibly too hot. So I'm slightly fatigued, but, you know, happy. Well, that's the main thing. You've got some hot cycling on the way as well, haven't you? Because the Athletics Tour de France coverage is very much helmed by you, I believe. Yeah, very exciting. So, yeah, that all kicks off on July the 5th. Right. And there will be plenty to get your teeth and cleats stuck into if that's the sort of thing you enjoy. If a football match can be said or a competition can be said to kick off, what does a cycling competition generally do? Clip in, maybe. Yeah, definitely. Clip in and set off. Lovely stuff.

3:59Carl Anker, nice to see you. Hi, James. Take your break from saving up for that Man United season ticket. Absolutely. I'm changing to a slightly cheaper form of balsamic vinegar just to watch the pennies. Excellent. Excellent. And Benji Laniado is with us as well, of Pickfair, CEO thereof. And also, Benji, in first game of our Intertotally later on. Are you excited? Sure. Yeah. It's actually a grudge match because Julien has knocked me out, I think, twice before. Really? So, I mean, you might have to sort of like hold us back virtually as the questions are firing. Excellent. Headlines. Listener, since our last show, what has happened?

4:46Well, in the Euro-21s, England and Germany met Wednesday night in the final group game. Germany were already through to the last eight. Lee Carsley's side needed a point to progress. They didn't get it, even though the Germans obligingly fielded their B team. However, results elsewhere meant that England's under-21s still went through. Very different story in the under-19s. Did anyone catch the remarkable game between, again, Germany and England side in the group stage of the competition in Bucharest. The young Lions going 5-1 down after 48 minutes, but storming back with four goals in 11 minutes to get a 5-5 draw.

5:22It is a remarkable highlights package. When you watch football at that sort of youth level or the youth version of these tournaments, there's always a sort of 10-15 minute period where midfield starts being more of a casual suggestion and games being more of a basketball game of two-ing and throwing. and that sort of four-goal flurry is remarkable to work. So I highly recommend hunting it down if you can. Brilliant. Highest scoring game in the history of the under-19 Euros. Both teams could be eliminated on Friday though when the final group games take place. England facing the already qualified Netherlands while Germany meet Norway.

5:56Meanwhile, transfer news. If you enjoyed last year's Barcelona sign Dani Olmo but can't play because they spunk their wage allowance on other people, fun and games, than your love word that Barcelona have now signed or reached personal agreement with Nico Williams and apparently don't see his 60 million euro release clause as a problem, even though, says the Spanish League, they're already way beyond their wage budget on their other supposed signings. How many more bad things can Barcelona press say about André Torres Stegen in order to him to either leave or accept a pay cut? because that appears to be their big game plan now of we're going to bring in Nico Williams because Ter Stegen is leaving and Ter Stegen, who is a captain, seems very content with things.

6:43I suppose you can go have a nice chat with Rafinha or Frankie the Young about what it's like when Barcelona press don't like you anymore but you are content to stay because Barcelona is a lovely place to live and play football. Ter Stegen very much goalkeeper but the key factor here is his wages. Nika Williams, if there's a player he would be displacing in football terms, it might be the aforementioned Rafinha, who, as I recall, did pretty well for Barcelona last season. But hey, what do I know about transfer strategies? Very good. We'll keep an eye on that one. Meanwhile, in the Club World Cup, dominating everyone's attention, we've now reached the point where all 32 teams have played.

7:20Headlines since our last podcast included Champions League runners-up Inter drawing their opening match against Monterey with Sergio Ramos. Doing trademark Sergio Ramos things, opening the scoring in that. Man City beat Wydav Casablanca 2-0. Goals from Foden and Jeremy Doku, while group rivals and White House hostage video subjects Juventus also won their opener against Al Ain of the United Arab Emirates 5-0. So they're actually top in the group. And then there was Real Madrid and their one-way draw with Al-Hilal. Real Madrid now, excitingly, trailing FC Salzburg in their group, or Red Bull Salzburg to give them their common name, after the Austrian side beat Pachuca in a game which Benji's especially keen to tell us about later on, much, much later on, I'm getting listener.

8:15Anyway, let's begin with events at the Hard Rock. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

8:32That, if my Arabic doesn't fail me, was the excited Saudi reaction to Al-Hilal goalkeeper Bono's dramatic penalty save right at the end of their opening round clash with Real Madrid. Some pro bono defending, I'm calling it. We're joined now by our friend James Horncastle, who was present, of course he was, at the Hard Rock for this quite historic match. Hey, James. Hey, Jimbo. Yeah. Wow. You just keep clocking up the big encounters there at the Club World Cup. This, for example, was the first time ever that an Asian team has avoided defeat against a European side since the Club World Cup began 25 years ago.

9:15How about that?

9:17James Horncastle: I didn't know that. I mean, partly because I thought that Al-Hilal would be decent, maybe not as good as they actually proved to be. But, you know, when you get rid of Neymar and your starting 11 is still worth 350 million euro and you have a coach who you are paying sort of 25 million a year, maybe they're quite good. so yeah I still it was surprising I suppose that you know Simone Inzaghi was only sort of two and a half weeks ago sort of you know on the sidelines for Inter in that Champions League final which they lost 5-0 to PSG and has not had a lot of time to work with these players but you know even sort of playing a system that is not really his own because they played with a back four you know he's always played with a back three and they looked like the more cohesive unit the team that knew what its jobs were better than Real Madrid, who also have a new coach in Xabi Alonso and a few new players.

10:19There have been some games that haven't drawn the crowds, that haven't perhaps lit the imagination in this tournament so far. This, though, very much contrary, an absolutely banging affair with a raucous Real Madrid support there at the Hard Rock.

10:31James Horncastle: Yeah, it was a very big Madrid crowd. Madrid themselves were kind of boasting before the game that they had sold 60 of the 65 ,000 tickets available for it. Just after the Chelsea game, when you said when they sold 60 tickets, I wondered if you meant like 60 ,000 or not. Yeah, 60 Mamelody Sundowns fans. No, yeah, no, 60 ,000, James. So, and you were really struck how big Real Madrid are in the US. Yeah, they've been sort of touring here quite regularly over the last few years. But America just likes winners. And Real Madrid are the ultimate winners. And it was interesting watching them in Miami as well, because, you know, so much is made of kind of the Hispanic Latino community here.

11:24James Horncastle: And, you know, how much they kind of love their football. And I think people have looked at Messi moving to into Miami as being just like, you know, the perfect alignment of all these things. But, you know, Messi's Argentine. And, you know, a lot of Hispanic and Latinos here are from Colombia. They're from Cuba. They're from other South American countries that don't like Messi's Argentina. but they do like the most successful Spanish-speaking side of all, which is Real Madrid. And they were probably a little bit disappointed by some aspects of Madrid's performance against Al-Hilao. They came to see a win.

12:04James Horncastle: They didn't see a win. Madrid have spent quite a lot of money this summer without addressing the real issue, which is they still don't have a Toni Kroos and 40-year-old Luka Modric will leave the AC Milan at the end of this tournament. They have got a Trent. What did you make of his debut? Stats show that Al Hillel were repeatedly targeting his side of the field. Yeah, they were. I mean, Trent, I think it was quite an awkward debut, really, because he had Rodrigo playing in front of him. And Real Madrid, at this moment in time, just don't really press like Liverpool did. So he's expected to do more defending.

12:46James Horncastle: He's a little bit more exposed. and you could see that in some of his early forays in the team. He was trying to go into the midfield and didn't know where he needed to be all the time. And, you know, they did target him. I mean, on that first goal, which was disallowed for Renan Lodi, you know, that comes from kind of Al-Hilal's centre-back, Khalidou Koulibaly, kind of marauding forward and then Trent being drawn to the ball and then just playing it into the position where Trent should have been in. And luckily Renan Lodi was offside. But also you were kind of struck by how Al-Hilal, both of their fullbacks are, one's played for Barcelona, Man City, Bayern Munich, Inter and Juventus, and that's Jao Cancelo.

13:29James Horncastle: The other's Renan Lodi, who's played for Atletico Madrid. So like, yeah, those two boys are not really phased by playing Real Madrid and playing their wide players and sort of going for their fullbacks. And so Trent was exposed a little bit at times, but you know Xabi Alonso very diplomatic afterwards sort of saying you know it's early days it was hot out there we're playing at three o 'clock it's crazy so you know we'll have to see how it develops for Trent OK we'll have to see how it develops for Al-Hilal you mentioned the amount of money that their squad costs and there's all sorts of other names and they're like Ruben Neves who got the equaliser after Gonzalo Garcia had opened the scoring somewhat against the runner play to put Real Madrid in the lead then late on there was that controversial penalty in I think the 89th minute, which saw Fede Valverde step up with a chance to give Real Madrid an opening day win.

14:27Bono, though, throwing an arm out just before he took the kick, perhaps winning the mind game battle, I'm not sure, but a nice save anyway. And I think a fair result, 1-1. Broadly speaking, from this performance, how far do you think Al-Hilal could go?

14:43James Horncastle: Yeah, I didn't really hear them mentioned all that much in the build-up to this tournament. I think much of the focus has been on, can the South American teams step up? And that's probably a legacy of just the last iteration of this tournament, where the only competition for the European teams was with the South Americans. and there were some really, really good affairs in the kind of 60s, battles in Buenos Aires and that sort of thing. So I think people were kind of sleeping on that hill a little bit. Didn't maybe expect much from Simoni and Zaghi after losing 5-0 to PSG, after only having two and a half weeks with this squad, after Neymar's departure.

15:29James Horncastle: But, you know, he was kind of saying yesterday that in the first half, Marcus Leonardo had a couple of chances. They could have been 2-0 up maybe at halftime. And so he felt there was some regret, but he was really confident. He was confident going into the game that they would put in a really good performance and said that they didn't have Alexander Mitrovic. Imagine if they'd only had Mitrovic available. They could have absolutely buried Real Madrid. No, look, I actually think they can do pretty well. I don't think they're a match for PSG, but I think in these conditions they probably fancy themselves against most other teams, PSG and I'm not sure what to make of Bayern I wasn't convinced by them in the Champions League they've obviously put 10 past Auckland but I think they'd back themselves against everyone but PSG We've seen Boca fever there in Miami which you were also present for their wonderful draw with Benfica just with all the stuff that's been going on What's been the best bit for you so far?

16:33James Horncastle: Bocca was great. I mean, Bocca have come to every game in Miami, even though they've only played one game in Miami. So, you know, their fans have sort of decided to make Miami home for the summer. There are lots of Arzentines here. You know, you can't go five minutes in an Uber without seeing an Argentine pizza place, an Argentine steakhouse, and all that sort of thing. so you know you've heard bocker songs even at sort of inter miami against al-aqli um it was true yesterday real madrid al-hilal you heard bocker songs um so fifa owe these bocker fans quite quite a lot for bringing the atmosphere and then sort of generally like when you are at these games the games do feel like they matter and the fans that are at the games they don't feel like they're tourists or just plastic fans they actually feel like they're legitimate fans who know the songs who come out singing and so you you feel like you're at a football event but the strange thing is is that the hard rock stadium is in the middle of nowhere you you can't really reach it by public transport so it's got 26 000 car parking spaces that means like football is kind of on an island here in miami you know miami is so big it's so vast that if you're not at the stadium, you wouldn't know there's a game going on unless you're on Miami Beach when some Boca fans are there.

18:03James Horncastle: So it's weirdly discombobulating because in all of the hours that you're not at a football stadium, you're just sort of... Even if you're in a sports bar, they've got ESPN on or FX Sports. And Club World Cup is not on those kind of traditional mainstream media sports channels that they have in um here in the u.s so so yeah it's you almost feel like you pass into another dimension when you go to the uh the hard rock stadium janny's dimension janny's dimension james last week what's the best thing you've eaten so far in miami the problem james is is i'm not actually in miami so i i am in a i'm in a place called Hallandale Beach, which is between Miami and Fort Lauderdale.

18:53James Horncastle: And now in Hallandale Beach, we have found an incredibly, this is a recent find, like this goes back to yesterday. We found like this German Israeli place, which actually serves something that resembles food, which is, you know, we are, we're very grateful. And they do do coffee. When I have been to Miami, we went for sushi one night and I must say that the sushi was one of the all-time legendary meals in Wynwood it was unbelievably good lovely stuff well enjoy wherever you're going to be over the next day or two and the Club World Cup as it rolls on and we'll catch up with you hopefully soon James thank you James I will not be in the Oval Office

19:46James Horncastle. Duncan, did we leave something out in that Real Madrid al-Hilal? Yeah, the best bit. The referee whistling for a corner for Real Madrid because Bono had held on to the ball for the eight seconds that now triggers a corner under the new IFAB regulations. And Real Madrid kind of took it a bit hurriedly. I know it was injury time, but it would have been... We wait to see a team actually score from one of those, which will, I'm sure, cause much gnashing of teeth. But yeah, it was good to see it a bit in action at least. The corner awarded for goalkeeper hanging onto the ball too long.

20:24One of the many exciting innovations of this tournament. The others include Ref Cam. Not sure how you feel about that. Beginning to see that increasingly folded into the coverage. Oh, and also, probably your favourite, the individual walk-ons. Will it catch on? it's delayed some early kickoffs hasn't it so it's delayed every game i think yeah yeah yeah i think i mean european soccer post last dance has stolen some american openings so but at both euro 2020 and euro 2024 stadiums would play the chicago bills opening music because they're trying to build an atmosphere there but i think that's probably as far as it can go there I can't see it catching them in League Two.

21:10I can't see, you know, on a cold day at Barnet. Now, Benji. At Real Madrid's next game, we'll see them take on Pachuca in Group H. Pachuca, who lost to Red Bull, but don't call them that, FC Salzburg, on kind of Wednesday night, maybe Thursday morning, depending upon your geolocation. You wanted to talk about this. Fire away. Yeah, don't worry, not for too long. I think the Pachuca-Rumadric game is going to be in North Carolina, which is okay. But this game was in Ohio. I think it was in Cincinnati's stadium. It was. And 5 ,000 fans turned up. And I think it's quite disappointing. I've been looking forward to seeing the Mexican teams in this competition because, you know, obviously there's a huge Mexican diaspora in America.

22:02And what I don't understand is why they haven't put them down in California or Texas or something like that. Anyway, they went to Ohio, which is, if you rank American states for how Mexican they are, it's the 40th most Mexican state. Is that right? It does feel like a bit of a, yeah. I just think there's a few stadium choices that are just a bit baffling. And I thought this was one of them because, sure, you know, Pachuca are the CONCACAF Champions League holders. Mexican team playing in America. Anyway, that was, you know, no more worrying about the tendencies for now. Okay, that was a game. which saw for the second day running a match suspended because of lightning strikes, by the way.

22:41It took about an hour to get the second half back underway, at the end of which Salzburg emerged as winners. Yeah, that's right. And talking of, you know, lightning strikes, there was a fantastic strike from Oskar Gluck in this game from Salzburg to open the scoring. Kloch. Kloch, back to right! And how does he do that? Oskar Kloch. Then one's the chance. 1-0 Salzburg.

23:36So I think really definitely one to watch. And I would be very unsurprised if he's, you know, turned up at, you know, let's pick a team at random, Leipzig, in the next season or so. I see right now his RB Salzburg topping Real Madrid's group. By the fact that they're the only team that's won so far in all of one games. Very good. More Club World Cup next as we touch on Man City and the surprisingly exciting Juventus.

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25:35This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around.

25:49James Horncastle: And Savino, not fully clear by the keeper, and Phil Foden is in to score inside two minutes. Group G, Man City trailing Juventus on goal difference after Wednesday night's action. Whoever, by the way, finishes second in this group might well be facing Real Madrid in the knockout phase, by which point Real Madrid might have got their act together as they generally do in competitions. Man City, two no winners against Widad. A goal after one minute and 51 seconds from Phil Foden in what is seen as an important tournament for him, with Jeremy Doku adding the other one. Enrico Lewis picking up a red card later on.

26:28So he'll miss the next game, which is against Al Ain. Good news there for Man City. Al Ain are not very good. And they got pumped 5-0 by Juventus on Wednesday night, actually Thursday morning. Juve looking absolutely brilliant under Igor Tudor. Thoughts on Man City? Who saw this game? Yeah, I was watching this game. I mean, fans of the show might remember our exciting debate last week about whether this tournament was in this season or last season or next season well phil foden said i didn't play very well last season and i wanted to start the new season well so he is he's classing this as 25 26 which is technically incorrect but he did look a lot sharper um and not only scored but also assisted jerry docu um rangers look really good i thought jerky less so but i thought city kind of looked a bit more back to their old selves.

27:22Defensively, still a little bit shaky. I mean, they had Vito Reich playing the centre-half and he looked a little bit wayward at points. But generally, yeah, pretty positive start for them. And you can tell that they are using this as a real sort of reset. And obviously, Marmouche from last season and Savinho from last season is making me increasingly convinced that this is going to be Pep's last season there. Because it reminds me of what Klopp did at Liverpool in that couple of seasons before he left. He kind of padded out the squad with really good players. I remember there was one summer when they got Gakpo and Nunez.

28:00And they already had four attacking players that they could use there. It feels like Pep is just throwing a lot of talent into this squad. And saying, I'm leaving you with all the resources. I think it's time for someone else to work this out. Interesting. in i they've got an ominous gloatum on the 16 minute mark pep guardia brought on ernan harland and rogery and you're going really surely this is you know this is the greed that they talk about in the holy scripture they look good they look as if some of the frailties we saw for the majority last season have solutions in game rogery was there and he looked a little bit like rogery okay there was some ring rust but he had a little phase where he carried the ball from the halfway line did a dribble or two and then chipped it into the final third and the pass didn't quite get there but you go there it is that was one of the big problems with ball progression they had i'm gonna call it for them it's still this season but it's last season for me last season everything yep so some of the problems they had last season reinders is going to be a delight if you're a Manchester City fan.

29:09I think the partnership he will have with Rodri going forward will be very, very, very good. And they're slowly approaching a critical mass of footballing talent again. And I disagree, Benji. This is the sort of thing where Pep Guardiola gets all this talent and goes, why would I leave? I've got all these new action figures. The short-term future for Man City, as mentioned season, face Alain next. But after that, Thursday, in a week's time, Essentially, they'll be up against Juventus, who, while Man City looked good, looked even better in their game against Alain. Alain had Rui Patricio, the veteran former Wolves and Roma keeper, who'd signed just for this tournament.

29:52Faced four shots in the first half, conceded on all of them as Juve romped to their first 4-0 halftime lead since 2018. Juve, who've been pretty stodgy for a couple of seasons now, looking absolutely enthralling in this first half and finishing the game off 5-0 with all their front three scoring. Randall Kolomani got a brace, so did Concei Sao and the other goal from Yieldis, a brilliant goal that was too. Looking less good on the Juve front was their pre-game, which saw them on the very afternoon of the match shuffling into the Oval Office in the White House to stand awkwardly behind Donald Trump as he let rip on a variety of topics, including countdown to World War III, transgender athletes, which he quizzed Juve about and probably the most awkward moment of all, and just generally did themselves absolutely no favours.

30:53The players looked absolutely miserable at being there. Weston McKinney in particular had to shake Trump's hand and I think said that there was no choice in the matter. They were told they had to go. John Elkan who basically has retaken the control of Juventus now another of the Agnelli dynasty has a number of dealings shall we say with Donald Trump and yeah interesting to see the team suddenly wheeled in there only hours before they kicked off in their Club World Cup opener just bizarre no other way they put it absolutely bizarre Donald Trump talking about how US military planes are undetectable because they have stealth, while West McKinney and Timothy Ware stand there looking very, very awkward.

31:37I think Adam Crafton's written a piece that you can see on The Athletic, and I believe Timothy Ware described the experience as a bit weird, which, I mean, he is the son of a diplomat, so you can see it. Very diplomatic tone there. Yeah, president of Liberia, of course. Also present at the historic meeting was FIFA president Jani Keep Politics Out of Football Infantino. So no dichotomy there. Have we talked about how Infantino's name is on the Club World Cup trophy twice? Twice, yeah. Twice. So in the engraving there is a bit that refers to Infantino as the founding president of the tournament.

32:28and there is also another bit that refers to him as the tournament's inspiration um i'm i'm sure some of our listeners have already seen that you can get a infantino sticker in the cwc sticker album pack where it refers to him as the emblem of the tournament as well so i never thought i'd miss the low-key skullduggery of set blatter but uh there are just some days when i was like turn it in Mistblow, good lad Elsewhere at the Club World Cup I mean loads of things but briefly I mentioned inter-drawing with Monterey and Sergio Ramos opening the scoring there and it's one of the delights I think of the Club World Cup, seeing all these old stages.

33:15The Monterey starting line-up is an absolute triumph, I saw Sergio Canales and Oliver Torres in that starting line-up and I mean, I'm sure there's certain listeners that have played various football computer games that have special feelings towards both of those players. But yeah, that Monterey starting line-up was a who's who of dudes naming old sports players and just having the best time. On the other end of the age spectrum, Joe Bellingham made his Dortmund debut back on Tuesday in Borussia Dortmund's 0-0 draw with Fluminense, who for their part fielded 41-year-old Thiago Silva and a 44-year-old goalkeeper Fabio.

33:53And we should shout out as well for River Plate. who while Bocca ended up drawing that game with Benfica 2-2, River played with 3-1 winners over Japan's Urawa Red Diamonds on Tuesday. That River game, it was fun to see. Four of River's back five were in the Argentina 2022 World Cup squad. Sort of getting the band back together. They got Armani, Petzla, Acuna, who assisted two goals with amazing crosses, and Montiel, who scored the winner. And also, it also struck me, I suddenly realised, again, I was amazed at how few fans they were at this game. 11 ,000 supporters for this river plate. But they'd put them all the way up in Seattle.

34:36Why not? They put them all the way up in Seattle. But I now realise why they put them all the way up in Seattle because it's the complete opposite end of the country as all the Boca fans in Miami. So they are being extra careful, extra careful to keep them apart. Very nice. Benji, before we leave the Club World Cup, you've got an important reflection to make. Really important, Jim, but I'm glad you asked. I found it very surreal waking up this morning to see highlights of a Juventus game, and suddenly there is Lloyd Kelly playing at, I think, sort of left-back or left of a back three for Juve.

35:11Sort of a really strange transfer that I think might have passed a lot of people by. You know, there's quite a lot of big English names in Serie A now. But yeah, Juventus have just paid£50 million. There's lots of British names. So the Scots would be the dominant. Thank you, Jimbo. Thank you, Jimbo. This is, it made me look at how many British players were there in Serie A last year. And the answer is 18. There were 18 British players in Serie A last year. Let me tell you some of these names because I think it's interesting. Obviously, Lloyd Kelly, I thought was the most fascinating, but he's not.

35:41So first of all, there is Amari Forsen. You remember, he's the Man United youngster who set up Kobe Mayan, who's famous last minute winner against Wolves. Well, he's now playing for Monza. Brooke Norton Cuffey Arsenal Academy player who was on loan at Millwall last season he's now Genoa's right back Keenan Davis do you remember him? big centre forward playing for Villa and a few championship sides well he's now he didn't really score many goals he's now not scoring very many goals for Udinese he's their centre forward there's loads of them and actually but the British player that I was most intrigued by so obviously we know that the English players and the Scots have had an amazing season in Syria we've got Scotta and Piccolo Billy at Napoli Liam has been a bit of talk about Che Adams getting to double figures for Torino.

36:25But the one that totally passed me by is that Lewis Ferguson, ex of Aberdeen, and I had to double check that he wasn't the same person as Liam Henderson, who plays for Empoli and he's been in Syria for most of his career. But no, Lewis Ferguson is now the captain of Bologna, which meant he was the guy that lifted the Coppa Italia. And I never really heard of him. And maybe that's me being completely ignorant, but I was amazed by that. No, he was brilliant. there not last season the season no wait but he had the injury for I feel like he was out for a season or so and has finally come back in for Bologna and but was regarded all the time as well one of the reasons why actually Bologna didn't match their previous success in getting into the Champions League apart from the players who left was that he'd suffered that terrible injury but yeah a wildly popular player there in the Bologna setup huge and essentially you know Scottish league and cup double in Italy this season with Scotta and Lewis Ferguson.

37:23So yeah, big up the Scots. Big up the Scots, no greater sign that your league is doing well than when Scottish players can come in and absolutely boss it. By the way, can I just say one more thing about the Club World Cup? I've been moaning about attendance. I thought Flamengo versus Esperance looked like it had a proper atmosphere. and I loved the massive banks of Esperance fans behind one end and Flamengo at the other end and you could see that they weren't actually segregated but even though it was only the bottom tier of whatever gigantic huge NFL stadium it was, it was a proper game with proper atmosphere and I think Flamengo are going to be, both teams I think are going to be really fun to watch for the rest of the tournament.

38:05Yeah, FIFA have done that thing where all the fans at that ground, you could argue they should have just picked a smaller ground, but they've shifted everyone down to the lower tier and the director's been very clever in that game in particular at framing the fans so you would never guess. A lot of people talking about the fact that they had tickets not specifically for this game but other matches. I think the Botafogo one up at Lumen Field was that they had tickets kind of along the halfway line in the top tier and suddenly got an email from FIFA saying they've been relocated to behind the goal on the bottom tier but equal value tickets.

38:38That makes sense. yeah just for you know optics yeah but the i've got to say they got the optics right in that case for that game because i thought he looked like i had a proper atmosphere i don't think come the end of the tournament that we're going to be talking about these these the opening round and the low attendances anymore i think that the the story will have moved on so much i think that this will be a really successful tournament but duncan sorry yeah i think we need to be careful about sort of attendance bashing too much given a year in 96 some of the attendances were abysmal you You know, Bulgaria, Romania, St.

39:10James' Park, a hotbed of football fans. Only 19 ,000 people turned up to see Stoichkov take on Georgie Hadji. So I think it's, you know, it's a bit unfair. It is low. It's 56 % attendance so far, which is like, it's not good. MK Dons would kill for that, mate. Fair enough. Can I mention just a couple more curators? Because that's one of the things I've enjoyed most about this tournament. it's like, oh, look, Belotti's playing for Benfica. There's lots of kind of players where you're like, what? Briefly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Belotti, by the way, scored 11 goals in four years. Sort of mad cliff.

39:49He's fallen off. But actually, another two things that slightly blew my mind in the Boca Benfica game. First of all, it was that Otamendi is the fifth most capped Argentinian footballer of all time. How's that happened? He's just been there for ages. He's old reliable. He is old reliable, yeah. The other one, and this is lovely, is that Di Maria is about to have a palindromic beginning and end to his career. So he started his career at Rosario and then moved to Benfica. And he's finishing his career by going from Benfica to Rosario. That warmed my heart when I realised that. Excellent. Excellent.

40:24Lots of other people have their heart warmed. Noah Azari says, Club World Cup is great. Love seeing teams from different continents compete. Al-Hilal did Asia proud yesterday. I hope the competition is every two years. Amir Bakker says World Cup gets much criticism but offers interesting games with lots of I mean to Pracy Amir lots of fixtures that you would never ever see outside of perhaps a competition that you yourself would build on your FIFA tournament on your PlayStation. I think if you are a listener to this podcast or you've not watched much Saudi Arabian League I think this is perhaps the best gauge of what the top four the PIF owned Saudi Arabian clubs now have to offer and compete it's an interesting barometer there so the work Inzaghi's done I think it was quite interesting watching Inzaghi play against a Xabi Alonso team and neither of them use the back three that's a weird, that's an interesting task called Kiro for me and if you're a Man United fan you're going hang on wait what?

41:20so I want to be really really careful here because as I'm getting slightly older and slowing down a little bit I'm trying to get better at calling fewer things crap or rubbish and dismissing them and I'm trying to instead say I can see the appeal but it's not for me or this probably isn't my tempo or I'm probably not the target audience for that and when I look at the reasons why I'm perhaps not watching the Club World Cup with the same intensity or faveur that I'm watching the Champions League or the FA Cup. That's probably to do with the fact that I've watched nine months worth of European football and I'm knackered rather than this tournament being bad as it is right now.

41:58And I'm sure there are many, many fans across the world and listening to this who this is their tempo, this is their speed and they are enjoying it and all power to you. And I'm sure there's going to be quite a few fans that will try and check back in around the quarterfinals when some of the quarterfinals Yeah, it's a bit like the Europa League that you kind of don't pay that much attention to at the group stages. But once it gets into the knockout stage, you're like, hold on, this is pretty serious and good fun and there's good teams there. And actually, just, you know, I think Karl's point about benchmarking the Saudi league is a really good one to the extent that it, you know, and purely on football terms, obviously, but it made me think, actually, do you know what?

42:34It's not so mad saying that maybe Ivan Toney can still be in an England squad, you know, if he's playing in a league that has got some actual decent quality in it. So yeah, really, I think that's a very good point. Excellent. Well, we'll have more on the Club World Cup in our next show but lots of big games coming up between now and then also writing in though is Dickie Byrne who says no Boxing Day football for the Premier League is the game gone this follows the release of the next season's fixtures or is it this season this season's fixtures Duncan well it's sort of a quirk and as our colleague Phil Buckingham explained on The Athletic yesterday What it is is because Boxing Day, December 26th, is on a Friday, then the fixtures are sort of automatically set to the 27th as the weekend fixtures rather than normally the Boxing Day fixtures would be a midweek set of fixtures.

43:26So what's going to happen is that the TV companies, our friends, are going to move some of those fixtures, quite a few of them I imagine, to the Friday, aka Boxing Day, and we will have Boxing Day football after all and the game will not have gone quite yet. So it's fine. July 9th I believe is the date for when the TV broadcasters start carving things up. So wait and see. Wait and see. July the 9th. Many thanks for that. Man United by the way, Carlos, you'll have spotted ranked by the Athletic as having the most difficult start to the season in terms of fixtures. Obviously everyone plays everybody else twice.

44:04but if you're a manager who's coming off a historically bad campaign and looking for some validation a tough run of fixtures at the start of the tournament isn't the best thing no it's not the best start some comparisons have been drawn to David Moyes's season in charge of Manchester night where he had a particularly difficult start as well you've got to start your campaign with a game against Arsenal at home if you are a Premier League watcher who remembers the night use that's really exciting because that used to be a match that would define the title race now you get to start off with it a very early Manchester derby as well and then a couple weeks after that first five you're off to Anfield so no rest for the wicked Mr Amarin I hope you have some new set piece routines because you're going to need him okay you'll also need a certain amount of money to see any of this if you are a match going spectator the cheapest ticket for a Premier League game at Old Trafford has gone up Carl is this right by 50 % a move described by the Man United supporters trusts as a fresh kick in the teeth although i imagine they must have said perhaps quickly the truth if you know it's it's it's galling it's it's really difficult andy mittens has done a very good interview with omar barada in united we stand we've run snippets of that in the atlantic right now and barada in his very harvard business school way of speaking it talks about how money has to be found and how they've apologized for the previous ticket increases by saying it was communicated poorly not by apologizing for actually increasing prices and there's this there's always this counter argument about how there was a ticket price freeze for the better part of a decade and this is this is the way you keep revenue going because you want to keep season ticket prices at a certain level and the best way to keep recoup those I'm putting in quotes losses is to charge more for the individual ticket however I am I'm sat here going you are charging me more money for a worse product this is the first Premier League season season Manchester United will play without Europe since 14-15 and this is on top of everything else going on in the world where you are paying more money for a worse product I'm sure someone is now furiously clicking away in the comment section going like the athletic snarf yeah I don't like it, it sucks and I very much agree with what muster say Did anyone else understand that as their worst season since 14-15 like Agincourt, that kind of thing or was that just me?

46:31Tough place to go hammer him in the mud Benji, were you excited for your fixtures briefly, West Ham? Yeah I don't think I've ever been more apathetic about West Ham the thing that's interesting is that we got Leeds on the last day of the season, which made me think, uh-oh, could that be a sort of relegation playoff? But yeah, let's see. Point of curio, Evan Ferguson's six-month loan, what happened there? I'm not convinced it happened. I think, I mean, I've got nothing to say. It'll be one of the most forgettable. I mean, I've forgotten it. Who is Evan Ferguson? Just to quickly flag up, if you were listening to Daniel's story talking about Sheffield Wednesday on Tuesday and their perilous position currently.

47:23You may be interested to know that because of their failure to pay their own staff, the EFL have now banned the Owls from paying any transfer fees for any players until January 2027. So situation precipitating there in Sheffield. Very good. Well, we're almost at the end of today's podcast, but you'll be excited, listener, perhaps, I certainly am, to know that we're going to finish off today with the very first matchup in this year's, or is it next year's, or is it last year's, into Totally Cup. Match one is on the way.

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51:30This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. It's time, everybody, into Totally Cup, match one. Let's meet our contestants.

51:49Up first, he's riding the crest of PSG's Champions League winning wave, but let's not waste any more time with these pointless intros. He's got to be on 5 Live in three minutes. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Totally Football Show's Croc Monsieur. It's Julien Le Rennes. Yes, indeed, Julien. He's had no sleep for the last week. How are you, sir? Hello, guys. I'm very well. Thank you very much. Thank you for reminding me with the song and with Ben's intro that I'm obviously a European champion, so life is good. Your PSG based on the Champions League, excuse my French, but will this be a 5-0, eh, Julien?

52:30Well, this is a bit of a classic, isn't it? in that game, so I just can't wait for it. OK, Jules is a perennial semi-finalist, sometimes putting out the man he's about to face on the way. But let's meet the man who stands between Jules and a semi-final berth.

52:52And his opponent, variously described as the Nolsey of knowledge, the Count of Monte Cristo and the Prince of Pickfair, all the way from Finsbury Park, representing the East End of London. It's Benji Laniado.

53:11A strong intro game in this opening match of the Intertotter Cup. Benji, thank you so much for taking part. Benji, who was runner-up, of course, in this competition, listener, you're just thinking to yourself, in 2021, so plenty of pedigree for you as well. How do you feel about this rematch with Julien Leroyne? What's the history here? Well, you know, I actually knocked him out on the way to that final in 2021. But he's then, he proceeded to, he's whooped me twice in a row. And I've got to, listen, I'm just a civvy, James, right? You know, at best, I am the conference league to Julien's Champions League.

53:50You know, he's the hardest working man in football journalism. You're the Auckland City. Yeah, that's it, that's it. I'm happy to be here. I just hope the fans have a great time along the way. It's a great thing for the CV, you know? Brilliant. You are the Prince of Pickfair. You can get prints at Pickfair, I think. Is that right or not? Oh, yeah, you can. And actually, you can set up your own photography print store in under a minute. So anyone can get prints on Pickfair. Amazing. Right. Five questions on football are coming up to each of you. Then, if required, we'll go to a tiebreaker. and just to let you know, whoever does come through today's match will be facing either Tom Williams or Charlie Eccleshire in the semifinals.

54:35So with that, let's get underway with question one. Ooh, atmosphere. Julien, you're up first. Julien, question one. For which Saudi Pro League team does Ivan Toni currently play? Ali. Is correct. you're on the scoreboard. Benji, your first question. For which Saudi Pro League team does N 'Golo County currently play? Oh, Al-Nassar. I'm afraid not. It is. Oh, actually, Julian, do you know? Yeah, Al-Itihad, but on loan to Al-Hilal right now, I believe. Ooh. Hmm. Julian, in which of the following countries has Roy Hodgson not managed? Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium or Norway? Belgium. Is correct.

55:35Yep. Julian, on to two points. Benji, your second question. In which of the following countries has Alan Pardew not managed? Netherlands, Greece, Bulgaria and Switzerland. Switzerland. Is correct. Two wonders scores. We move on to question three. Jules, which World Cup winner's career path is this? FC Homburg, Kaiserslautern, Werder Bremen, Bayern Munich, Lazio.

56:15Miroslav Klose? Is correct. Jules moves on to three points. Benji, you need this. Which World Cup winner's career path goes Nantes, Sampdoria, Real Madrid, Middlesbrough, Olympiacos, Servet, Bastia? Christian Carambeau. Boom! 3-2 the score. as we move on to question four. Jules, what disrespectful behaviour from a match official did Sheffield United manager Chris Wilder take exception to in 2024?

57:04I don't know. So I will say... So it's something a referee did to Chris Wilder that he didn't like. A match official did this in front of Chris Wilder. In front? He celebrated? No. He ate a sandwich, Choules. Far worse than celebrating. He ate a sandwich. You'd rather have your leg broken than that, I think. Your question, Benji, and for this, with this, the chance to pull level in today's quiz. Alan Pardew was given a seven-match suspension for head-butting an opposing player while Newcastle manager in 2014. Who was that player? Ah.

57:57You can see it, can't you? Yeah.

58:04Did you say who the opposition team was? I did not.

58:15Alan Pardy, Newcastle manager, 2014, just over a decade ago, headbutting an opposition player. But who was that player? I don't know. I'm not even going to guess. I don't know. Jules, do you know the answer? listener do you recall that it was David Mailer yeah okay I don't think I would have got that but I do remember that now

58:42David Mailer of Hull so with the score poised at 3 to 2 in favour of Julian Lorans we move on to the final question remember there's a tiebreaker if they're tied after 5 with that in mind let's start with you Benji to pole level which current player is the all-time Premier League top goalscorer for two different clubs?

59:08He's a current player. He's currently playing. Current player.

59:21Going to have to hurry, Benji.

59:26Listen, I haven't got all day.

59:33This is going to really annoy me. Bear with me, bear with me. I got this, I got this. I don't know. I don't know. Pass. No. Pass. Where? Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Current player, two different Premier League clubs. This is really annoying.

59:58No. Put me out my misery, don't know. Jules, the answer, please. Callum Wilson. It's Chris Wood. Chris Wood currently top goalscorer for both Burnley and Nottingham Forest. Jules, your question five would have been which club's top two all-time Premier League goalscorers are Australian? Leeds United. Leeds, yeah. There you go. So, Benji, I'm afraid that's three for three for you against Jules. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. But listen, he deserved that. Great answers. Great answers. Julien, you are the player who has participated in more Intertotally Cups without ever winning the tournament than any other.

1:00:48Could this be your year? If it's PSG's year, that could well be my year as well in this quiz. So, I have to believe it. I've got Luis Enrique. He's been coaching me for the last few days, getting ready for this big, big clash with Benji. So, you know, I believe in Luis. All right. We'll choose on base two on the InterTotally Cup. One can only wonder. But we'll find out over the weeks to come, listener. We'll have another exciting matchup in the InterTotally Cup next Thursday on the Totally Football Show. But for now, it's many thanks to Benji and congratulations to Julian Laurent. And with that, listener, we come to the end of today's show.

1:01:28I hope you enjoyed it. Many thanks, as I mentioned, to Benji, obviously to Jules as well, to producers Charlie and Liam, to Duncan and Karl Anka as well, and you for listening in. We'll be back with you on Monday with a Totally Gold episode, and then on Tuesday with the latest on all the big stories around football. I do hope you'll be joining us for that, and that you have a great weekend in the meanwhile. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye. you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for more great football podcasts like this one including the athletic fc and our six dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic on apple spotify and all the usual places the totally football show is an athletic media company production

1:02:20James Horncastle: the athletic fc podcast network

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