Ange arrives at Forest, England click and the Manchester derby

0:00The Athletic FC.

0:30over Moldova. All that plus Manchester Derby and sundry other things in this Totally Football Show.

0:45Thursday the 11th of September the records say and let them show that on this day sat in the Totally Football Show studio were Duncan Alexander. Hi Duncan. Hello James. Good morning to you. Good morning to you Benji Laniado. Hey Jimbo. That's right listener he is the ceo of pick fair thank you and on our big screen slightly fuzzy of picture adrian clark sharp of mind adrian sharp of mind if i hope so hello team hello everybody wow listening you join us to start the podcast but we've been chatting already among the revelations of the fact that behind adrian on his wall and if you're watching on video you can maybe get a glimpse of this not only in adrian clark jersey from his arsenal days but also the corner of a picture which he just panned across to show us which is quite an extraordinary thing adrian what is that we're looking at for the people who are listening on the podcast who can't

1:40Benji Lanyado: see it it's a gigantic team photo that arsehole commissioned when they moved to emirate stadium Every player that ever played for Arsenal at Highbury is on this giant team photo, which meets a lot of players. But it's beautifully done because it starts in black and white and it ends in colour. And I am very proud to be on it, even though I can barely see it. It's so small, the image of myself. I can barely see it even with my glasses on. But I'm there. Who you stood next to, Adrian? I think I'm in and around Paul Merson. I can't believe you don't know this. Well, yeah, I don't stare and look at it that often.

2:23Benji Lanyado: Paul Merson, Andy Linegan, Stevie Morrow. Yeah, I'm of that era, aren't I, in the mid-90s. So, yeah, all those guys. In and around. All right. It looks like a university photo. Hundreds of, like a school photo, but, I mean, essentially bigger. There you go. After Adrian showed us that, and pretty impressive it is, Duncan revealed that he used to be a stand-up comedian. Well, I wouldn't go that far. I used to do some stand-up. Really? Why did you give it up, Duncan? What was it like? It's fun, yeah. Was it fun? Well, if you enjoy looking at, you know, quite stony-faced people in the upstairs rooms at pubs, then it's, yeah, the life for you.

3:06How big did you get? What was your biggest gig? I supported someone in Clapham once. I think the audience was about 120. Right. So, yeah. No, it was fun. It was just like to kind of basically get to make it a thing, you have to really commit. And, you know, I would have had to not watch as much football and that would be very painful. Unless you made football your subject matter. Oh, wait, that's what you did. And then you really got paid. Just out of interest, and excuse me, listen, indulge me while I ask, how did you write your material? I'm always curious about how a stand-up generates content.

3:43uh it's yeah so you basically just keep a notepad or or you know even a early iphone notes app but yeah just note stuff down because i think if you try and sit there and write it it doesn't really come you have to kind of just it just has to float into your mind and then then you have to construct into something that actually works yeah yeah wow that's the thing isn't it do you still do that do you still write down quirky thoughts yeah yeah i think that's very a useful way of life. Okay. I'd encourage it. Perhaps we'll hear one or two in the course of today's show. Benji, all good with you? Yeah, I'm, yeah.

4:19First appearance of the season. Feeling fresh, rested. Yeah. Like a new signing. Hmm. Indeed. A lot for us to talk about today, Benji, because your West Ham only went and got Poro Nuno Espirito Santo fired. Yeah. Losing at home to West Ham is a sackable offence. Yeah, quite right. But come on, he got himself fired. He got himself fired. All right, we've got that to discuss. We've got England. We've got crazy Norway. There you go. And other things too as the Premier League returns this Saturday lunchtime. We're going to begin, though, with events Monday midnight in Nottingham. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

5:03That's a good ball, Wilson! This is wondrous for West Ham. And for Callum Wilson, his first Hammers goal. Wow. That was Callum Wilson capping off a 3-0 win for West Ham away at Nottingham Forest, what seems like ages ago, back in round three. Well done, Callum Wilson. There was no way that anyone else was going to score that goal. But that was the last game in charge for Nuno Espirito Santa, because this Monday, just after midnight, the word came that he had been fired as Nottingham Forest manager. And then shortly after dawn on Tuesday, the equally gobsmacking revelation that fun-loving Ange Postacoglu would be the new manager.

5:49It's a hiring that supposedly Nuno himself saw coming, but it has surprised many others. Postacoglu was Tottenham's Europa League hero, of course, but also the man whose Lord Cardigan-esque commitment to all-out attack is very much the antithesis of what Forrest had been under Nuno. and also came last season pretty close to getting Spurs relegated. We'll talk a little bit about the background to this very shortly. I know, Benji, you're very pro-Marianakis, from one Fat Cat CEO to another. That's not fair, but OK. But what do the Forest fans think about all of this? Fortunately, we're joined by one now.

6:27It's Matt Davis, just Matt Davis, of the Forest Focus podcast. Hello, Matt. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us. well apologies for not having Adams on the end of my name people keep telling me how much I look like him and sound like him and I'm the same age as him so maybe I'm almost familiar here I don't know but the thing is listener just before you ask they have been seen in a room together because you do the he appears on the forest focus podcast he does and Dan's story does so forests are well represented here and yeah they do come on regularly certainly it's like Kyle Walker and Kyle Walker Peters very much so has anyone ever mentioned that before I'm sure it's been done before me.

7:07Matt the figures show that they're pretty much at opposite ends of the tactical spectrum certainly last season Nottingham Forest and Spurs under Ange Posthakogli are you anticipating him changing his approach then and if he doesn't what do you think the Forest fans will feel? I suppose last season yes certainly you know I think I lifted a graphic from The Athletic for our podcast to show last season how wildly different they were this season interestingly Forest possession stats for some of the best in the league or highest in the league. Their pressing stats are the highest in the league. So whether Nuno wanted to do that or whether he was made to do that in the first three games and through pre-season, we saw them sort of working towards what is something akin to Ange ball in a sense.

7:52So I think with the players as well that we've got, they're really good players that he can work with. I think the question mark is, are we going to see the Chelsea high line? It is who we are, mate, kind of stuff and I think he'd be foolish if he does that but with so many games coming up we've got seven games before the next international break I don't think he can do that I think we'll see I hope we'll see gradual evolution and nothing you know jarringly mental at Arsenal I guess it remains to be seen though. Okay so cautiously optimistic seems to be the feeling from from you at least Matt on the subject of Nuno so many good times under the Portuguese boss there was that fall off towards the end of last season when what seemed like a very probable Champions League place kind of disappeared up on a very poor run of results the start this is not been great there's been all the kind of passive aggressivity in the press conferences and that does he leave with his relationship with with Forrest fans tarnished by all of that or will he forever be a legend I hope he's forever a legend I hope it's not tarnished it's a really unfortunate way it ended but look at what he did for us we're the only Premier League team to ever double up points tally season on season he came in and it was a mess you know we were struggling in the table we were very fortunate at how bad the promoted teams were and when we got a points deduction and he really took things forward if we flash back to when Steve Cooper was sacked you know people didn't really want Nuno particularly he'd come from Saudi Arabia his reputation was at a pretty low ebb and there was talk of well he's lucky to get a Premier League job and there's sort of a little bit of that with with Ange and I'd be interested to see how that plays out but Nuno has done an unbelievable job there was a lot of talk of him being our second best ever manager recently behind well Brian Clough obviously so no I hope he's forever a legend his achievements are phenomenal and certainly the last three months or whatever shouldn't cloud what he did for us okay Matt one question about Ange coming in we talked about the tactical differences in his approach but are there players do you think that will actually benefit from his arrival that's a question from Ed Bellaby yeah I think there's players who'll benefit and there's players who potentially certainly suffer or might suffer I mean you look at Elliot Anderson who is an unbelievable footballer and it feels like everyone else is catching up to what we kind of felt about him a few months ago of how good he is he and Morgan Gibbs-White should link up really well together I think Callum Hudson-Odoi might really enjoy it we don't know what Douglas Luiz is going to be like but he feels like someone who could flourish under Ange Postacoglu.

10:29Zinchenko is an interesting signing if he plays inverted fullbacks and and things like that Zinchenko could fit really well and Murillo looks like yeah if you watch Murillo he wants to go on 50 yard runs and ping 60 yard balls and shoot from 40 yards and all that kind of stuff so if Ange that says you know go out there and express yourself to these guys then I think it it could be really fun for them definitely. Mate. Indeed. All right. Well, listen, Matt, it all begins Saturday lunchtime with a trip to Arsenal where you've got a terrible record. Best of luck for that and the rest of the season.

11:02And of course, the Forest Focus podcast with your cohort, Matt Davies-Adams. New episode of which is currently out relating to the no-no and switchover, is there? There's four hours worth of stuff yeah we've streamed live until 1am because you know who sacks their manager at 12 15 so we streamed till 1am and then there's a spurs fan and a celtic fan on him there's um a couple of guests in adam somerton and seb hutchinson from the commentary world ex-players uh in gary burtles and stuff like that there's a bit of everything there's four hours worth for forest fans to get their teeth into certainly brilliant matt many thanks for taking time out to join us and we'll We'll speak to you soon.

11:45Thank you very much. Matt Davis. Yeah, broadly speaking, Nuno's exit, largely self-inflicted because of the friction. As you say, Benji, not a performance related with the club, but personalities, the friction between him and Edu, Marienakis' new head of global football, and the beef over the transfers that have been Edu-inspired, And also a slight fall off in Forrest's results on field. It has to be said. Matt was talking about what fans of Celtic would make of Ange or what recollections they have. I think if you go right back through his career, his references are going to be good. Got Australia to the World Cup, qualified them for two World Cups.

12:31Then he went to Japan and got Yokohama F Marinos, their first J League title in 15 years. and then he went to Celtic and got five trophies in two seasons. Spurs, yeah, mixed bag, the 17th place finish. But Europa League, right? And Jimbo, he always wins something in his second season. Very nice. I don't know, as for a Forest perspective, what do you think, Benji? I think it could work. I think that you mentioned that I'm supportive of Marianakis. I guess what I sort of begrudgingly respect is that he keeps doing things that people think are mad and they work. You know, when he got rid of Cooper, everyone thought he was mad.

13:17When he hired Nuno, everyone thought he was mad. This sort of crazily hyperactive transfer strategy of, you know, bringing in 30 and sending out 20. Like, everyone thought that was crazy. Well, now Chelsea are doing it every summer. So I just think maybe Marianakis needs the benefit of the doubt on this. and the other thing as well that I think is so impressive this summer how they held on to Morgan Gibbs White as a supporter of a smaller side now I'm not saying Forrest is much historically bigger than West Ham but we've been we've not been amazingly successful in recent years West Ham is just a given that you're going to sell your best players that's how it works and this summer Marian Aki said no so yeah I'm sort of supportive of his actions of late and therefore I really hope that Ange works and I mean It's a sort of shock therapy to some extent.

14:04If he wants to change it, throw in an Ange. Let's see. Yes. You last season said you'd like to see Ange at West Ham. Yeah, just to sort of feel something. It's very different at Forest because they've got a working formula. West Ham haven't had one of those for a while, so therefore he'd obviously take an Ange. You're saying if it doesn't work, throw in an Ange, but Forest was very much a, it's not broken, don't fix it. Okay, fair point. But I think Maranakis wants to keep that on with momentum, right? They have been on an upward trajectory. he will probably see missing out in the Champions League last year as a failure, even though all of us know that it was an amazing success.

14:37But he is sort of, I think, trying to change and adapt and evolve at a point at which they're on the up. And not many owners do that. Ours certainly haven't. Yeah, and there's examples of other clubs doing this and doing it well. I mean, Southampton got rid of Nigel Adkins, and their fans were in a protest and brought in Pochettino and then went to the next level. So I think Benji's right. I think you can argue that the last month or so of last season, Forrest had been found out in the way that they were playing. And as Matt said, they have played a little bit differently this season. And you can also point out the fact that Ange's big problem at Spurs, I should say, was he ran out of players.

15:15Now, Forrest, one of their main benefits is... They don't run out of players. So I think that will help him. And it's good to have him back in the Premier League. We probably just need a Mourinho back. and we've got the full set of characters.

15:31Benji Lanyado: Adrian? Yeah, I agree with the boys. I think Maranacos has probably done the right thing here. You have to evolve. Look at what happened to Leicester after they won the Premier League title. They weren't the same team again trying to play a similar brand of football. I think you do have to evolve and they're going to be playing in Europe as well this season where you can't just play on the counter-attack all the time. Premier League opponents had definitely started to suss them out and realised that they didn't want the ball. So let them have it a little bit more. So yeah, I think he was right to look for a change of direction, actually, after that tail-off.

16:10Benji Lanyado: And I think it would have come into his head towards the end of last season when they did tail-off really badly. So yeah, I think why not give it a go. Milenkovic, I think, is a player that might suffer, which is a shame because he's formed a great partnership with Murillo. But if he's asking Milenkovic to squeeze up to the halfway line, I think he could be in trouble. He's a defender that wants to defend on the edge of his own box. Well, as we saw on Tuesday night. Yeah, exactly. He's not late when he has to turn and run. Well, do you think Antipoza Coglu is going to come in with that game plan, though?

16:41Benji Lanyado: Not Emirates, surely. I mean, I think it has to be a slowly, slowly one, doesn't it? Where he finds some kind of middle ground at first. because if you suddenly come in and start telling Milenkovic, you need to squeeze up to the halfway line and leave all that space behind, it's going to confuse him. It's not something he's accustomed to or comfortable with. So I think it will have to take place over a period of weeks, I'd imagine, changing the style completely. But as Matt said, they've played proactively in the campaign so far. They've pressed quite a lot. So I think they'll do that at Arsenal to a degree this weekend.

17:16Benji Lanyado: They'll be comfortable in possession at times as well. But if they go high line full Ange ball, they'll get beat heavily. So I don't even think Ange is that daft. And let's remember, Ange sacrificed his principles towards the end of last season very well in the Europa League to go on and win it. He went kind of polar opposite himself, didn't he? So he is prepared, more prepared than he cared to admit at times last season to alter his style. I mentioned that Forrest don't have a good record away at Arsenal. They haven't won at the Gunners since Australia's Jason Donovan was UK number one with too many hearts.

17:53One of your favourites, Benji. Too many hamstrings, more like. There's that stand-up. Boom. Hasn't lost it. Very good. No Saka, no Saliba, no points last time out for Arsenal. Adrian at Anfield, but feeling positive about this one?

18:13Benji Lanyado: Yes and no. I mean, yeah, it was, that game could have gone either way. Well, it could have been a draw. Arsenal, you know, if he sticks that in the cup, it's a good result for Arsenal, that free kick. So they shouldn't be too downhearted. The issue Arsenal have had so far, this is in part down to the tricky fixtures, but Arsenal are not creating good quality chances. One big chance created across the three matches is the lowest of all the teams. Second lowest XG from open play. Arsenal have to kind of release that handbrake and really attack with a little bit of, well, a lot more of an unpredictability.

18:52Benji Lanyado: And if they do that against Forest, they should have enough to win the game. Wow, there was a player I saw on Tuesday doing just that, splitting the defence with incredible through balls, setting up the striker again and again for goals. Martin Odegaard? Who is he? Exactly. Who? So I don't know if you saw Norway's thumping of Moldova 11-1, but Udegaard looked at his best in that game, admittedly asterisk against Moldova. Yeah, well, he's got a fresh trim, hasn't he? He's had a haircut. The floppy hair has gone. He's gone a little bit sort of cleaner. And, yeah, hopefully it will just bring about, you know, sort of an upturn in form.

19:33Benji Lanyado: What he had for Norway was runners. He had players ahead of him that were looking to make dynamic runs in behind defenders. and we know he's good enough to to prize holes in in any defense so yeah it's it's a big few weeks i think for elgaard because ez has joined we think he'll start on the left but if martin has a dip and doesn't perform then they've got ez to slip into that 10 spot or or one area so yeah he needs to he needs to raise his game but i'm confident he will okay 12 30 saturday lunch time it is Arsenal against Nottingham Forest. We'll be checking out the rest of the Premier League Round 4 fixtures a little bit later on.

20:14But next up, let's get on to international football. What Norway did, how they did it. We'll be hearing from Tor Christian Carson and whether we should be preparing for Norway at the World Cup for the first time in over a quarter of a century. And also, England and their trip to Serbia.

20:37This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around.

21:04Woof. Harry Kane there getting the ball rolling away in Belgrade as England beat Serbia 5-0 on Tuesday a game that when we were building up to on Monday people were saying well they'd be happy with the draw probably be a 1-1 talked about pedestrian England far from it in this one Kane picking up his 74th England goal we also saw debut England goals for Madueki, Konza and Mark Gay and Declan Rice with two set-piece assists. Adrian, one of those rare occasions when just everything went right. It was brilliant.

21:42Benji Lanyado: It was a fun England performance, wasn't it? And I think there wasn't anything major tactically that Thomas Tuchel did. I don't think you could say this was a tactical masterclass. England did the basics much, much better. They ran harder. They ran with a purpose to try and hurt the opposition so the player on the ball had better options they were able to move it quicker and yeah it was just an intent about England just the little things everything they did was sharper and because they're good players they had too much for Serbia so now I was thrilled with the performance and yeah hopefully it's the it's the blueprint to follow and and the best thing about it is that Some of the guys that are quite new stood up, didn't they?

22:30Benji Lanyado: Luckham Madaweke, Ilya Anderson, one or two of the others as well. But those two really stand out. Now Tuchel knows he can trust them because that was a big game, difficult environment. He now knows he can trust those two. And that's a big old plus, isn't it? Yeah, a massive win that came without some of England's biggest stars. And one of the nicest things, Benji, was that when they went 1-0 up, they kept on attacking for once. Totally. And like Adrian was saying, the energy was maintained. And I think the thing that I loved about this performance is that it answered so many questions. Like we've been trying to work out how do we speed this team up?

23:07And I think Elliot Anderson as a six is a massive part of that. His kind of energy and his vim. You know, who's England's best left flank? Again, I think we've answered that. It's the Geordie duo. It's Livramento, who I thought was really good up and down. And Gordon, who was aggressive and positive. Who's our second centre-back alongside Gwehi when Stones is injured because he's always injured. Well, I think it's Esri Conce. You know, they took it in turns to completely dominate Vlaovic. Who's the right back? Well, it's clearly Rhys James now who looked, again, really good and Tuchel clearly likes him.

23:37And the rest of the team slightly picks itself. You've now actually got the slightly awkward question of, does Saka definitely get back in after that Madueke performance? The answer is probably yes, but what a nice problem to have. So for the first time in ages, England looked like the sum of their parts, which was so satisfying. I mean, the one player I don't think we've mentioned is Morgan Rodgers as well, who was brilliant. He's got that kind of strength centrally to sort of barge past players and obviously set up Madueki's goal. Right, with the subtlest of flicks. Yeah, he's got the brawn and the brains.

24:11He's a brilliant player. And, you know, to the point of, does Saka come back in? Does Jude Bellingham come back in? I know, yeah, it's almost, it's in a murder to some extent, but possibly. I mean, just to put it into context. What about Cole Palmer? I remember him, yeah. I mean, England do have strength in depth, as maybe they should, as the richest domestic football league in the world, etc. But to put it into context, that was England's biggest margin of victory in an away game against a team in the top 50 of FIFA rankings ever. Obviously, with the caveat that the FIFA rankings began in 1993.

24:44But, you know, as you said, people weren't expecting a 5-0 away win, but there it was. People might have been expecting a little bit more from Serbia, but maybe it was just how good England were that made Serbia look that bad. Adrian, it was a record-breakingly good performance then. What's next then on Thomas Tuchel's to-do list?

25:05Benji Lanyado: Yeah, that is a good question. It's difficult because the qualifiers are kind of almost dead rubbers, aren't they now? I think we've probably just touched on it there. You mentioned Duke Benningham, Cole Palmer, Phil Foden's sort of out of the picture at the moment as well. Saka is he going to be brave enough to leave one two or three big dogs out of his starting 11 to maintain harmony in the team to get the balance right because the balance was right in that game for all the reasons that we've just outlined is he going to do that or is he going to try to crowbar some of these superstars back into the team at the risk of upsetting that that harmony and balance.

25:46Benji Lanyado: I'm not saying that those guys can't fit into the structure of what he wants, but one or two might have to be left out. And I think that that's the challenge that he has to sort of approach head on. And personally, I would like to see him be brave and to do that because it's always handy to have, you know, highly motivated, talented players on the bench, ready to be unleashed, isn't it? So yeah, that's what I'm looking forward to seeing in the next phase. All right, another positive for an evening, the strength of England's set-piece coaching, Declan Rice, I mentioned, picking up two assists from the free kick and the corner.

26:22I'll bring you a little bit of that Arsenal style, Adrian.

26:26Benji Lanyado: Yeah, look, the set-piece coach at Arsenal deserves great credit for actually sticking Declan on them. You know, this wasn't something he's done all his career. They just sort of worked out, actually, he's the most reliable guy that we've got to take corners and free kicks. Remember, he's a pretty big, Declan Rice. He could be quite a useful asset getting on the end of set pieces, but he's so good at taking them that he has to be on them now. And, yeah, he's remarkably consistent. So, yeah, I think the defendant was really ropey, actually, from Serbia. I mean, to leave Harry Kane, of all people, just to meander into the box was crazy, really.

27:04Benji Lanyado: But, yeah, look, set pieces are going to be massive for England. We're good at them. let's not be ashamed of it because in those tight games next summer at the world cup i'm pretty sure that we'll scramble our way through around thanks to a scruffy set piece so let's let's keep keep making them work i was gonna say before we move on i was also thrilled to see another question answered in anthony gordon's hair oh yeah because you i haven't seen him wear a headband like that before and i thought it really worked and i've always felt with anthony gordon actually that he's got difficult hair. Kind of goes in all sorts of different directions, mostly just upwards.

27:40And it's hard, and it's always hard to sort of manage something like that. But I think he's sort of really found it. And is it a coincidence that suddenly he looks natural and at home in the England side? Right. With a headband. You might think this is irrelevant, but international managers have in the past instructed their players to get haircuts specifically for this reason. Argentina boss in Batistosa's day forced him to get a haircut by not calling him up until he did. Because he claimed that the amount of time that Gabriel spent flicking the hair out of his eyes, marginal gains, was detracting from his awareness, his ability to scan, perhaps.

28:17I was going to say impaired by his bangs, but they weren't bangs. But you take my point. This is good analysis. It is. And it ties in with a question that we were sent by John Hayes, who says, would it not be glorious if Erling Haaland played with his hair down all the time? The marauding Vikings, distinctive long locks. This is John again. freed and flowing whilst in full flight, lovely stuff, would be the perfect complement to, air quotes, our football. Haaland very much had his hair up, as is his wont, this Tuesday. His second or third goal, where he beat a defender, beat a keeper, and then kind of scooped it into the top corner.

28:54That was absolutely delightful. And actually, this international window, I think we've seen some of the best goals I can recall from an international break. I made a little list. Did you, Benji? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Hold on on that. Are we anything else about the trip to Belgrade? What's up next for England, Duncan? Do you know? Latvia. Latvia. Well, this is to answer your question about what is on the to-do list. The FA have got to get some competitive fixtures in before the World Cup because there's no one else that's going to challenge us. Right. England, seven points clear yet to concede a goal.

29:26Exactly. Like the friendlies they arranged at the end of last season, on paper, weren't hugely challenging. That said, Senegal beat us quite convincingly, but it was when everyone was knackered at the end of the season. When's the World Cup played? Well, good point. And actually that is one of the one caveats that I thought on Tuesday night, which was this is what England looked like three games into a season when they are on it. When everyone is kind of at their physical peak to some extent, they're yet to be exhausted. So a huge challenge is going to be how do they transplant this to then in the summer?

29:56Well, that's the problem because they've moved the World Cup to the summer now and it just doesn't work, does it? Adrian?

30:01Benji Lanyado: Yeah, and of course we know how hot it's going to be in America next summer. So can we find a way to replicate that intensity, that dynamism that we showed in Serbia next summer? That's a question mark, isn't it? At the end of a gruelling season. So, well, we'll have to wait and see how the team developed. I mentioned Latvia. That's the next qualifier. The actual next game is a friendly and it's a friendly against the mighty Wales. That's it. I mean, no offence. I mean, this is obviously... Benji, stop right there. It's hugely offensive to Wales. You don't need to say it. We'll move on. Coming up next, Benji's best goals of the international break.

30:34And we get to hear about Norway, another team that's looking pretty tasty ahead of the World Cup. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Listen, Matt Hames wanted us to point out, or me specifically, that last time out when I mentioned Cristiano Ronaldo becoming top scorer in international football history, I was referring to, I said top-scoring player, top-scoring man, of course, because Canada's Christian Sinclair has scored 190 goals for that nation, which is a full 49 more than Ronaldo currently has, although he is catching up. He got another one the other day, a penalty in Portugal's 3-2 victory over Hungary.

31:14Imagine that didn't figure on your list of best goals. Maybe João Cancelo's late winner did, I don't know. Well, actually, Ronaldo scored a goal in the game against Kazakhstan. It was stunning, and that is on my list. That's on your list. What else, Benji? So, the Belgian game against Lichtenstein's, De Kuyper's amazing header, sort of fish-angled, long-distance header, I thought was beautiful. Fish-angled? Well, he made himself into a sort of fish croissant shape. We've all eaten them, haven't we, listener? Yeah, there you go. Anyway, beautiful. Tielemans first-time volley from a corner clearance in the same game.

31:49Matty Cash, I can't believe he didn't mention this on Monday, Matty Cash scored an absolute screamer to equalise for Poland away in Holland. That was amazing. Strelic's second goal for Slovakia against Germany. He sits down Rudiger and puts it in the top corner. Kukurela scored a sort of thunderbolt against Bulgaria. Yeah, in the Portugal game where Ronaldo scored a long distance outside of the foot, Jao Felix scored this kind of extraordinary rainbow flick one-on-one finish. Like, look it up. KDB against Kazakhstan, postage stamp, top corner. Dam's got against Greece. He does a Zidane turn, then a 25-yarder into the bottom corner.

32:24Just some beautiful, beautiful goals. Wow. Magnificent. It was a good international break for so many people. Morocco qualified for the World Cup. We mentioned that on our last show. Tunisia now have joined them. Thanks to a late, late win against Equatorial Guinea. Bolivia now got their foot in the door, For pipping Venezuela to the seventh spot in Comibol and thus getting into the intercontinental playoff, Bolivia beat Brazil 1-0 at like 4 ,000 metres up in the air. But Jack Lang pointing out that that's six defeats now for Brazil in this qualifying campaign. If the World Cup hadn't been expanding, they would have been in real trouble of missing out, not even making a playoff.

33:10Anyway, it has been expanded. Bolivia in the playoff. Venezuela got beaten 6-3 by Colombia. And a quick mention for the fact that as part of our Totally Extra series, which comes out on a Saturday generally, we did a little reminisce about the good times and the dark times of that Colombia team from the 90s. Maybe you'd like to check that out, listener, if you are looking for something to listen to. Benji? Talking of reminiscing, mention them, Bolivia. they might be getting to their first final since 94. Oh, yeah. And Norway looks like they'll be getting to their first final since 98. We're coming on to them next.

33:48Well, I was just going to say, can we just do a quick session of men sitting around naming footballers? Because that Bolivia team, Marco Echeverri, Erwin Sanchez, Carlos Trucco, remember him? Amazing player. That 98 Norway team, there was a majority UK players. Espen Bardson, 98. Henning Berg, Ronnie Johnson, Stig Inge Bjorneby, Dan Egan that ended up, I think it was at Rangers. Right. Roger Nielsen from Sheffield United. Right. Or even Leonardson, Tori Andre-Fro, Solskjaer, Iverson, Harold Bratback. That's incredible. And all from memory, Benji. Amazing. Tor Christian Carson, another man who can play this game, joins us on the line.

34:30Hey, Tor, how are you doing? I'm good. Hello, studio. Hello, everyone. I'm glad that Benji is talking of nowhere there and keeping their memories afresh. Well, fresh memories perhaps on the way because having not made a World Cup since 1998, Norwegians now look nailed on to be at the tournament next summer. Six points clear of Italy and Israel in their group with three games to play. Tor, packing for the World Cup? I'm not. I'm not counting any chickens yet. But people are indeed booking. I mean, even without knowing where the games might be played, but people are booking the transatlantic legs and you should think that it's academic now.

35:15We've got home games against Estonia and Israel and then it doesn't really matter what happens in Italy on the last day. Yeah, thanks to the incredible goal difference that Norway have. A goal difference that was boosted still further by Tuesday's performance against Moldova. 11 goals scored, turning it up to 11. What's the reaction been in Norway to that performance? I think it's surreal, more than anything. It was coming, actually. I mean, the 11-1 might be pushing it, but we had beaten Moldova 5-0 away. We scored four against Israel away, in which we should have had more. I think the XG was nearly five in that game.

35:59So it's been coming, and the team has kind of gelled. It's looking more balanced than it has done. There are some issues in defence still, goalkeeping. But, you know, with the attacking options now available to Sulbaken, I think we have a very reason to be optimistic and to bury this national trauma that's been going on since 1998. Wow, a trauma indeed. You mentioned goalkeeping. The Norwegian keeper's role in the Moldova's lone goal in that 11-1 thrashing was an interesting bit of goalkeeping decision-making. But at the other end, you had Erling Haaland scoring five goals and getting two assists as well.

36:38Odegaard also scoring and providing assists for Erling Haaland, playing out of his skin. Shout out to Asgard as well of Rangers, who was almost as guard as Haaland. He got four goals despite only coming on in the 64th minute. So Haaland always gets all the headlines and it's a goal scoring that grabs the attention here. But how rounded now is this Norway team at all? How much of an impact do you think they can make internationally next summer? Well, you've got the Hollands and you've got the Odegaard. Odegaard was absolutely unplayable. He was orchestrating. He was coming deep. He was taking people on, setting up one, twos.

37:15He was the architect of everything. But I think another thing that should be mentioned is the intensity. The pressing was really good. And basically, Moldova just struggled to get the ball. You know, they had no outlet up front. They were not able to keep the ball defensively. So it was just constant pressure for 90 minutes. Of course, Moldova is one, you know, that's one thing. But obviously, we had beaten Italy as well 3-0 in June. So the issues will remain in defense. The fullbacks are fine, but the center backs remained an issue and the goalkeeper. And I think the trouble here is that Solbaken is struggling to find the right combination.

37:57there's been periods over the past kind of 20 years where we've thought well something is finally starting to happen i think the difference now is that you obviously got the two world stars but you also got the nice pool of players to pick from now that wasn't the case if you go back 10 12 years there would be there would be half a dozen second bundesliga players there would be players catch around in Hungary or Poland or whatever, but the core of the team now are playing in respectable European clubs and obviously getting the weekly top-level football that they can bring on to the national team.

38:37But yeah, people are excited and so they should be. I mean, and it's fun. The ironic thing is that, you know, you talked about 1994 and 98. Those sides were full of great plays too but the idea was mainly based on a solid defense sitting back and breaking forward either through the long diagonals or counter-attacks but i think people see a lot more kind of potential for more in this um in this quarantine brilliant tor thank you so much for joining us and look forward to seeing the way and actually again soon i do as well and uh thanks for having me on Asgard, four goals off the bench remind you of any other Norwegian?

39:20I was going to say he's Asgard and Moldova with Thor very good I was thinking of Oli Gunnar Solskjaer doing it in oh yeah European football's Nottingham Forest do you remember? it's a Norwegian thing four goals off the bench so true come in handy they can do that every game absolutely absolutely 11-1 Duncan when did you last see something like that? can't remember I think it happens more in international football I wouldn't go to the Cook Island and ask them about heavy defeats although the journey wouldn't be entirely in vain lovely spot very good, what else happened in international football then well the Republic of Ireland's hopes of making next summer's tournament a rule but over after they got beaten again by Armenia 2-1 on Tuesday there was better news for Scotland they won 2-0 in Budapest against Belarus, which leaves Steve Clark's side level with Denmark atop their group, four points, no goals conceded.

40:22Alexander Izak played his first football of the season on Monday. Up front as a late substitute alongside Victor Goykeres for Sweden, who lost, though, despite that firepower, 2-0 in Kosovo. They've only picked up one point so far in Group B. very good alright well that's international football Premier League is back this weekend and in the last part today we'll finally get on to the other games from that

40:56you're listening to the totally football show and we're supporting the premier leagues together against suicide campaign find out more at premierleague.com slash together against suicide it's premier league round four this weekend what's the situation well three teams are still unbeaten that's Liverpool Chelsea and hello Crystal Palace none of the promoted sides are They're in the bottom three. Teams that are are Fulham, Villa and Wolves. Yikes. Premier League round four gets underway Saturday lunchtime with Arsenal against Forest, which is one of five Premier League games that are happening in the capital on Saturday.

41:30And that day there's also four EFL games as well. So that's madness. Fulham leads. Palace hosting Sunderland at three. At tea time, West Ham Spurs. And Brentford Chelsea at 8pm. Crikey. Also on Saturday, you've got bitter bad boys, South Coast rivals Bournemouth and Brighton facing off this Newcastle against bottom of the table Wolves and Everton Villa, Jack Grealish against his former side Sunday league leaders Liverpool are at Burnley and at 4.30 it's the Manchester Derby, crikey, now Adrian we've not got long to round all this up, so pick a game which one, Manchester Derby?

42:09Benji Lanyado: Yeah, it has to be, doesn't it? That's the sort of highlight, but will it be a highlight because the last few Manchester derbies haven't been great watches. I think it was a goalless draw, the last one. Neither team sort of in sparkling form. Well, City have lost the last two at home to Man United, which is remarkable. A lot of people feeling that, I mean, there's a suggestion that this game could see two new goalkeepers, one for each side, Donnarumma and Lamontsville United. Some feel that Donnarumma's arrival will spark a tactical revolution for City with Pep telling his keeper to send it, sort of tactically putting ketchup back on the canteen table, as it were.

42:49Do you see that happening?

42:50Benji Lanyado: Yeah, I mean, they do do it at times with Edison, don't they? They've scored a number of goals where they've gone long to Haaland and they've shown good movement with Marmouche and Haaland to sort of get in behind. But to pull that off, you've got to lure the other team forward into thinking that you're going to play out from the back. and I don't know how many teams will buy that Donnarumma will do that because it's not something he's hugely comfortable with. I'd stick both keepers straight in, by the way. Donnarumma hasn't been signed to be back up to James Trafford, has he? He's going to go straight into the team, surely.

43:27And Lammons has to play.

43:29Benji Lanyado: I mean, don't worry that it's a Manchester derby. I mean, Bayern Deer has been a total liability on crosses, hasn't he? He just looks so ill at ease. I just think, why not just drop him in and see how he handles it? Being Manchester United goalkeeper comes with massive pressure, whether you're playing City, whether you're playing Burnley. It really does. So stick both straight in, I reckon, and let's see what falls. Can't predict this game, really, can you? Because neither team is particularly convincing. All right, City lost at Brighton last time out. Man United beat Burnley, but only Justin Wright at the death.

44:07they'll be approaching this game without Mateus Cunha, who came off injured in the game against Burnley and missed out on Brazil during the international break. Duncan? I mean, there is a precedent for Pep chucking a new keeper into the Manchester derby. He did it in 2016 with Claudio Bravo, which obviously was when he was trying to get rid of goalkeepers that could kick the ball along and Joe Hart. And Bravo did make a bit of an error in that one. And obviously it wasn't his debut, but Taibbi obviously had a pretty bad performance. I mean, I think Manchester's relationship with goalkeepers for both clubs, they're either like incredibly good or riddled with quite a lot of errors.

44:47So much pressure. Benji, are you going to pick a fixture that you'll be going along to Saturday tea times? West Ham, Tottenham, two teams that reversed their fortunes on match day three. Spurs got beaten at home by Bournemouth, while West Ham, as we mentioned before, went to Forest and beat them 3-0. Or was that a blip, do you think, Benji? Well, let's see. There were a lot of reasons to be cheerful. He actually pragmatically, un-amorentially changed his formation. He went four at the back. Kyle Walker-Peters came in. Mateus Fernandes came in from Southampton. These are both vulture-less players from last year.

45:23Do you remember we talked about players that smart Premier League sides should pluck from the relegated sides? That was two of them, and they actually made a difference. So, yeah, let's see. although we were doing pretty poorly and then randomly won away at Arsenal last year and then went back to being poor. So let's see. Okay, your previous home game for West Ham was a 5-1 defeat against Chelsea. Just on the subject of that Forest game, one of the other players coming in midway through the match was Crescente Somerville. Yes, remember him? Yeah, yeah, it made a real difference. I think that kind of dynamism and that willingness to move quickly and run a player, as we're talking about it with Elliot Anderson, right?

46:01it can really set the tone for a team. And I think when he came off the bench, having him and Fernandes willing to really pick up the ball and go made a big difference. It's exactly what we've been missing. So let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see from a Spurs point of view includes, let's see how Mokudas gets on in his return to the London Stadium and also how Xavi Simmonds and Randall Colomuani, two of the big names in the big, big transfer window for Spurs, how they fare if they make their Tottenham debuts. Very good. That game, as mentioned, is Saturday at 5.30. Duncan, have you got a game that isn't one of those that you're excited about?

46:40Yeah, Everton-Aston Villa for me. Everton, you know, often when teams move to new stadiums it can be a bit of a slow start or they're just angry that it's a former municipal athletic stadium turned into a football ground. Sorry, Benji, sorry. But the vibes are good at Everton. they're looking to win four in a row this season. And the contrast with Villa is huge. Villa, the only team in the top seven divisions in England yet to score a goal. Wow. Two new players, though, that I'm excited about seeing is maybe Dibbling getting his first minutes for Everton. They've now got this kind of potential triple threat of D.I., Grealish and Dibbling, which is lovely to think of.

47:20And I think Javier Elliott's a great signing for Villa. I think he goes straight into their team and I think he improves it. All right, Jack Grealish against Villa, looking to register two assists in a match for the third game in a row. And he'll be keen to make an impact on this. He's not the only one who's been benefiting from his arrival at Everton. Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall has already played more Premier League minutes for the Toffees this season than he did for Chelsea in the whole of last season. And he's also the top English chance creator in the Premier League South Fathers campaign. So Everton in cracking form there at the Hill Dickinson Stadium hosting Aston Villa.

47:59Also coming up this weekend, Burnley hosting Liverpool. This is Scott Parker's first game against Liverpool since you know when. He was in charge of Bournemouth. They went to Anfield in August 2022. They lost 9-0. He was subsequently not manager of Bournemouth. yeah he gave one of the most kind of morose post-match interviews there and sort of didn't just throw the players under the bus threw the bus under the bus is that when he got transposed over the streets music yeah indeed so a Liverpool team which could of course be unleashing the most expensive player in British football history Alexander Izak they were top of the league without him three wins out of three Adrian any chance that he's going to Asprillia to Newcastle it up for them?

48:50Benji Lanyado: I don't know. I mean, look, I don't think he's going to start, is he, in this game? I mean, would you chuck him straight in? Nah, he won't start. I don't think so. I'm fascinated to see what's going to happen because Eketike, although he was quiet against Arsenal, he's looked really sharp. Cody Gakpo looks in great nick. Surely you're not going to leave out Mo Salah. So, yeah, he's going to upset somebody sooner or later by sticking Isak in. But yeah, this is going to be... I mean, if you're Scott Parker, I mean, his team aren't exactly full of goals anyway or goal threats. You've got to go defensive.

49:27Benji Lanyado: I mean, how defensive do you think he'll go in light of the fact that the last time he faced Liverpool, they shipped nine? I mean, this could be genuine sort of attack for defence training game territory, couldn't it? So yeah, maybe not. This might not be the best watch. All right. We shall see other options for your viewing pleasure. If you're outside the UK, you can watch Fulham Leeds. Fulham possibly bringing out their brand new Brazilian winger, Kevin, who they picked up from Shakhtar for a record, I think. 35 million. We need to talk about him. Nice, Duncan. And also, it's so nice to see a single English-named Brazilian come from Shakhtar.

50:06That just feels right, doesn't it? Excellent. Yeah. Bournemouth and Brighton, both won impressively last time out. They're going to be facing each other at the Vitality. that Saturday 3 o 'clock as well as is Crystal Palace against Sunderland Brentford Saturday at 8 o 'clock will be hosting Chelsea and late late news has been recorded is that Chelsea in the run up to this game have been hit by 74 charges of wrongdoing relating to transfers by the FA no doubt in our next show we'll be looking into the implications of all of that for now they lie second in the Premier League two points behind Liverpool curiously they've only won one of their last seven meetings with Brentford but then again that's a club that has changed so very much over the summer We should point out that Bernardo Cueva, the former Brentford set-piece man is now operating at Chelsea and didn't make a brilliant start last season but Chelsea have already scored four goals from corners there's a really good piece by Tom Harris on The Athletic about the menace that Cucurella is causing at the near post, darting around like a crazed spaniel.

51:18And then behind him, goals emerge. Wow. All right. Could be seeing that. The GTEC Saturday evening. Of course, Chelsea have a trip to Bayern on Wednesday in the Champions League in what looks like a really, really, really saucy debut set of games for the English sides in the league phase. They're going to be at Bayern. Man City welcome Napoli KDB we need to talk about Kevin part 2 Liverpool host Atletico Madrid have yet to win a game over in La Liga Spurs take on Villarreal and Arsenal are away to Athletic Club in Bilbao then of course there's Newcastle who on Saturday face Wolves we might see Visser and Vultimada against Wolves and quite possibly a W as well for the home side and then they follow that with Barcelona Barcelona at St James' Park on Thursday I mean you were casting aspersions on Tino Espria a few minutes ago I wasn't I mean that game I was referencing the popular belief yeah I won't do that again very good if you like the sound of all of those Champions League fixtures we'll have a slightly earlier than usual Totally Football Show European edition out on Tuesday morning previewing all the Champions League games not all of them some of them it's quite a lot And then, actually, next week's Totally Extra will move from its Saturday slot and park itself on Wednesday morning to cover what happens on Tuesday.

52:48How about that? Because we can. Meantime, before any of that, there is another Totally Extra that we've already recorded, Duncan. Yes. With Michael Cox and Pedro Pinto. And we're talking about a Portuguese team from the early noughties who were really, really successful, briefly. Which one? Just them or their manager. Yeah, low-key sort of coach guy. Did a lot of his work on the training pitch and just left it. Retired, opened a bookshop. Yeah. Nice. Anyway, if you enjoyed Totally Extra, check that one out. If you haven't heard them yet, there's loads of them out there already. Talking about Klinsman, Anelka, Balotelli, and as previously mentioned, Colombia.

53:33Right, that's it though for today's show. Many, many thanks for your patience. It was a long one. Adrian, thank you so much. Hope you enjoy yourself this weekend. Duncan, many thanks to you and to Benji as well and to Jake and producer Charlie in the booth. Listen, have a great weekend. We'll be back Sunday night and live on YouTube as well with our reaction to round four. Do hope you'll be joining us soon. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye. You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

54:13We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.