Arsenal are Premier League champions

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1:47The Athletic FC.

2:17Totally Football Show. Big news in Spygate. Saints booted out of the playoff final thanks to their in-turn actual man of mystery. And the Brazil squad's been announced too. No João Pedro, but Neymar will be going to the World Cup as long as it doesn't clash with his sister's birthday. All those stories and more in this Totally Football Show.

2:51Fire. I'm on fire.

3:14We're going to live and play with the conviction that we're going to win it

3:26I want to get it done for all these people that they've been in this journey with us

3:44Tuesday the 19th of May and it's a very special Totally Football Show and Arsenal are the Premier League champions. Mikel Arteta's Crazy Boys wrapping up their first English top fight title in 22 years. Here with us off the back of two huge games on Tuesday that sealed the title at one end but kept the relegation race alive at the other are Duncan Alexander, Charlie Eccleshire and Daniel Storey. Hello. Hello. Hello. Indeed. So the Gunners' fourth Premier League title, 22 years after the third, and after three successive runners-up finishes, Mikel Arteta lands the trophy. And he did so because Arsenal won their game on Monday 1-0 at home to Burnley, leaving Man City needing the win against Bournemouth on Tuesday, and they drew 1-1.

4:40Daniel? Yeah, absolutely deserving champions on the basis that, for two reasons. Firstly, they felt like a perfect fit for this Premier League season in that they, I don't think it's any coincidence that Michael Arteta seemed to work out what his team needed to be. Just the exact time that the Premier League, he became a perfect paradigm of the Premier League. You know, the rise of attacking set pieces, using control to kind of kill games, defensive might when nobody else was quite able to do it. And also because this is not just a story of Mikel Arteta, but this is basically a 20-year journey for Arsenal from moving to the Emirates and the enforced austerity that that brought.

5:24I was looking today while writing a piece for this occasion. It's mad now that Arsenal didn't pay more than£15 million for a player until Mesut Ozil in 2013. team and that happened because Arsene Wenger was very good at his job for a period of time and then was less good at it and Arsenal just didn't feel like they could afford it and that might feel like a kind of a long way in the rearview mirror now but it's where this has come from it's it's backing a manager over a long period of time because you think it's the right thing to do and you think he can build something and at the point that Arsenal could then start to spend big money they already had a culture in place under a manager who they felt was the right one to deliver it.

6:06And I'll be honest, I didn't always think he was the right manager and he's proven me and many others spectacularly wrong. And it is an astonishing piece of man management to finish second three years in a row in your first managerial job, having never won a league title before. And yet, I think for basically four years since Aubameyang, not a single Arsenal player has wanted to leave the club who they want to leave. that's just it's mind-blowing that he's managed to do that and keep them believing in a title hang on daniel just on that no sorry clear the decks adrian clark's with us adrian okay good evening adrian what are you i'm ecstatic um and yeah i support the champions uh it feels good jimbo gotta say been a while daniel was just telling us about the extraordinary journey that this season has been.

6:57Yeah, and it hasn't just been this season, has it? It's been a long journey since 2019. And look, when that journey started, Mikel Arteta sort of coined the phrase, you're going to have to trust the process. And a lot of people laughed at it, but that process has taken Arsenal, who were really a mid-table side, producing bang average, mediocre football, of which we couldn't even dream to compete with the likes of Liverpool and Manchester City. They were playing a different sport at that time. The golf was massive. So for him to have not only closed that gap, but to have now seen off Manchester City in a really close title race, where they are on a long, unbeaten run, that is supremely satisfying, I'd imagine.

7:48For me, this is Mikel Arteta's title. Obviously, it's a title for all Arsenal supporters. us long-suffering Arsenal supporters it's a title for all of us but really this this is Mikel Arteta's team this is the job this is the culmination of his work and his work has been incredible I mean just before you came on Adrian Daniel was talking about the fact that the Emirates Stadium meant that Arsenal could no longer pay big money for players which is obviously the case but in a weird way you know the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford led Wenger to go on a bit of a mad panic on time for deadline day and one of the players he brought in a bit of a panic buy really was Mikel Arteta at the end of his career still a very tidy player but not like a sort of I don't remember anyone at the time on early football twitter sort of saying oh this is going to be a seismic upgrade for Arsenal and he was you know he was a decent enough player for them but what he's then gone on to do and that that bond he you know forged with the club has has sort of been paid back in the interim.

8:48I mean, Arteta at that time really symbolized Arsenal's decline because that summer they lost Cesc Fabregas and brought in Mikel Arteta. You know, they were losing an absolutely elite player, one of the best in the Premier League and replacing him with a guy who'd been a mid-table central midfielder. Obviously, he then became this kind of leader and captain and was a really important figure as a player. But I mean, it is a world away from where they are now. It really is. And I mean, those 8-2 defeats, the 6-0 against Chelsea, the routine humiliations and that's why I think when of course you can say Arsenal yep they're a bit boring they're a bit dull when as a team you're you were getting fairly used to I mean in that same season they lost they lost 6-0 at Chelsea they also lost 5-1 at Liverpool they shipped 6 at Man City they just they were such an unserious team for a really really long time and so for them to be back to sort of pre-Wenger George Graham style Arsenal is an incredible transformation.

9:45There's an interesting detail in the piece that James McNicholas has written about this on The Athletic, where he talks about them identifying a window, a window between 2023 and 2027, when the big clubs that were humiliating them would be probably on the decline, looking at their key players' ages. And time was kind of running out for that window. It's an interesting idea that that had been the case that they'd taken to the Cronkies to say, listen, we need the investment and they had stepped up but that window was coming to a close how sustainable do you think in the face of you know regeneration elsewhere adrian this is going to be for arsenal sustainable yeah because the team the team i don't think has peaked yet i think the team has been um constructed over a long period of time a lot of the guys are sort of in their early to mid-20s there's a lot of growth to come i think for for many of the guys obviously got one of the most gifted teenagers in world football as well to come through and develop.

10:47I think the most interesting thing here is the need for Arsenal to win it this year. After so many near misses and after being caught by Man City on a couple of occasions, we had to win it. Just had to win it. There was no option. Otherwise, you ran the risk of Arteta thinking, can I go again? The players maybe losing faith in it and maybe that team breaking up. And now, trust me, every member of that team will be absolutely desperate to stay. And there'll be some fabulous players that are aching to be a part of it as well. And the great thing is, from an Arsenal point of view, or maybe not so good for everyone else, is that there is room for improvement.

11:29Arsenal have, I think, the best defence in the world. I think without the ball, Arsenal are as good as any team on the planet. That side of it is locked in. That's fantastic. but Arsenal have nowhere near the best attacking unit in the league, in Europe. That is the next phase of the project. So I think, yeah, I think good times are around the corner. Obviously with Pep going as well, that's probably an added bonus. So yeah, I think that Arsenal can sustain it. And Arteta, I just get the sense with him that one is never going to be enough. I think that he's going to be thirsty, hungry to really build something special, a lasting legacy.

12:12Yeah, look, I'm so happy. I've had to come on so many shows with you guys down the years and talk about rubbish Arsenal performance. I've heard those, Adrian. We wouldn't mention that. Absolutely. Not so an Arsenal legend. So are some of the listeners. The number of shows you haven't turned up for, Adrian, has been the real concern. certainly this season as the the title race took its many twists and turns what what do you think was the the definitive turning point out of the the many key moments of this season was it the mark gay back pass at the hill dickinson that saw city's challenge falter was it the city fan drinking from the arsenal bottle for comic effect and inviting i did i i do think like conversely the loss to City, when Arsenal went and lost to City, that was actually their best performance in so long.

13:06And I said that they got players back. They just, you know, they were so bad for a couple of weeks before, but they were just missing so many players, again, in a way that teams that win stuff just don't do. Like, you don't win things if you're missing half a dozen players in April or May. But they managed to get those players back. They went to City and looked like a team again. And after that, even though they lost, and I think, you know, they deserve a huge amount of credit because for all the accusations about their mental strength, for them to go again, having lost that game, when, let's be honest, most people were thinking, that's it, your chance is gone, you've blown it.

13:38Declan Rice wasn't, to be fair. City again, Declan Rice wasn't. But, you know, clearly everyone thought at that point, City are inevitable, they've come back, Arsenal have blown it again. And with all that baggage of three second place finishes, it would have been the easiest thing, I think, to falter at that point, that they were able to recharge. But I think they did take some belief from being like, oh, actually, we're as good as City. like that was a you know that could eat that was a drawer of a game i felt on balance it could have gone either way it went city's way and they knew they were then in the shootout and if they won their games they'd win it and they've gone and won every game since without conceding a goal and you know we focused a lot on their mental strength i think you've got to say that that shows a lot of it yeah and you look back at some of the historic famous title wins we talked on pods recently about manchester united's running in in 95 96 where they reeled off just one nil after 1-0 after 1-0 and that's how you get you know titles across the line I actually think to your point Charlie that I think City sort of believed that they were still the City that could reel off 11 wins I think that's kind of what got saw them come unstuck a little bit like the Everton game you know they they dominated that first half it was 1-0 it could have been a few more but as soon as Everton got back in the game they they looked really shaky and it kind of it reminded me of that Man United 4 Everton 4 game in the run in 2011-12 where you know we we had so many City Liverpool title battles where it was almost perfection week after week but it was really exciting to finally have a title race where both teams could drop points and were flawed I think for the neutral that made it exceptional and obviously led to moments like West Ham and and others we should also say this has not been the perfect Arsenal season I think they were probably better in 23-24.

15:23They certainly took more points and scored more goals. They have got a combined 41 starts out of Akaya Saka and Martin Erdegaard, which if before this season you'd have been told that, you'd have said, well, okay, fine, but then Kai Havertz is going to have to play a lot. He started his seventh game of the league season tonight. Victor Jokrez was the striker signing and he has scored goals recently, but it hasn't worked out as well as everyone thought it or everyone at Arsenal hoped it would. and yet here we are still with them winning the title. It's not like this has been a, this hasn't been a everything go right and things fall into place season.

15:59It's been a season in which Arsenal feel like they've bent everything to their own will, not just in terms of reflecting how the Premier League has looked and then being the perfect example of it, but just as in, yeah, just kind of buying enough tickets and winning the raffle eventually by putting yourself in positions. Well, that's it, Daniel. I think this season's almost been like a, not a lifetime achievement, but like a five-year achievement award. If you keep putting yourself in a position, you will get those breaks eventually. And, you know, there have been seasons where they might say we were unlucky or this went City's way or didn't.

16:33City have the highest ceiling than Arsenal this season. I think, you know, attacking-wise, they're way better. But the stat that blows my mind, they've played 61 games, Arsenal. That's 5 ,490 minutes. And in that time, they've trailed by more than a goal for less than half an hour. Carabao Cup. Your floor that high, that you're not having an off day to the extent where you ever go more than a goal behind. That's insane. You need planning permission for a floor that high. Yeah, you really. I mean, it's crazy. And obviously the flip side is that they can seemingly beat no one by more than one goal, even an already relegated Burnley.

17:11But that's an unbelievable level of consistency. But isn't there something beautiful about a team winning the league with 69 goals scored and 26 conceded? That's just the most 1990s thing you'll see. And it's like, for so long, people have said, oh, I wish football was like it was 20 years ago. Well, it kind of is like it was 20 years or 30 years ago. And, you know, some have enjoyed it, some haven't. Among the many stats about Arsenal's campaign, the eight games they edged 1-0, The latest coming on Monday against Burnley, the performance which left City needing a victory on Tuesday, which they didn't get.

17:48The fact that this was the sixth game on Monday this season that Arsenal had restricted their opponents to no shots on target whatsoever, which is a joint record since records began. The fact that it was the 19th league game in which they'd scored via a set piece, the 19th clean sheet for David Raya. as you mentioned I think it was Charlie the fact that they haven't actually conceded a goal since the defeat to Man City what does that mean in prospect we have Palace this weekend and then in a week a week after that Paris Saint-Germain what kind of finale can we expect from the Gunners well I think the Champions League final takes on a very different complexion now because if they went into that having lost the league and they still hadn't won a trophy since 2020, I think the pressure would have been suffocating.

18:37I think now it's not a free hit, but the worst case scenario is they win the league and are runners-up in the Champions League for only the second time in their history. So what an unbelievably nice position that is to be in. And I don't know, it's not going to free them up. They're not going to go and sort of toss out what's got them this far. But I do think just from a psychological perspective, it's a It's a very different dynamic. Adrian, how optimistic are you? Yeah, more optimistic now, for sure. Because, look, Arsenal can rotate players against Crystal Palace. They can keep guys fresh for the final.

19:16And it's the cherry on the cake game, isn't it? Look, Arsenal is already a great season. It could be the most iconic in the club's history if they go and beat PSG. You know, they stand on the cusp of something extraordinary, something that no Arsenal team has ever achieved. and they can go into that game feeling fairly relaxed, I would imagine. So, yeah, it's tremendously exciting, really is. And just rewinding a little bit to what you guys were talking about before, I think people will say, oh, you know, it wasn't a vintage campaign, wasn't great standard this year. What I would say to that is that it has never been easier to lose a Premier League game than this season.

20:03every team can beat anyone this season. You've seen it. That mid-table, that mid-table, you look at the teams that are qualifying for the Champions League. They haven't even got 70 points. You needed, years ago, not that long ago, you needed at least 70 to be in the conversation for top four. Now it's not the case. Well, look how good Bournemouth were tonight. Unbelievable. I mean, that's the sick best team and their level is just fine. And look at Burnley on Monday, the effort they put in. It was, you know, I don't want to do the whole well in some leagues the team that relegated wouldn't turn up just on the style thing no one remembers as time passes if you said to someone the average person street who did the double in 1970 71 i reckon 60 percent of people would get arsenal if you said to those same people what's the lowest scoring goals per game season in the history of english top flight maybe me and one other person would say 1970 71 but because that stuff just fades away people just remember who who won stuff.

20:59So it's about getting across the line and getting a name on the trophy. Excellent. Arsenal's name is on the trophy. It's been a busy week. We're only on Tuesday. But massive stories breaking all over the shop. Next up, let's get on to Manchester City and their news.

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23:32This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. So Tuesday at the Vitality, Bournemouth 1, Manchester City 1. Junior Kruppi doing the Doku goal early doors. That's his 13th Premier League goal of the season. That's also the most ever by a teenager in their debut Premier League campaign. A brief flurry from City at the start of the second half, but it was otherwise mostly comfortable for the Cherries. Although Pep then did a triple substitution, throwing on Phil Foden, Ryan Cherky and Savinho, and eventually got the goal that put the wind up Adrian and the Arsenal cohorts rubbernecking behind their sofas.

24:21But 1-1 it stayed, which means that Pep misses out on a title as he departs. Bournemouth go into Europe. And we talk about where Arsenal were not so long ago, where Bournemouth were a few seasons back. It's pretty remarkable stuff. It's vertiginous, their rise. You know, it's in fairly recent memory that they were winning on the final day to avoid relegation from the Football League. So, like, this is as far low as you can go in the 92 to almost as far as Bournemouth could ever get. I remember going to see Eddie Howard a few years ago when he was Bournemouth manager. And he was not being unambitious in any way, but he was saying, if we get a new training ground, this team can push to the top half of the Premier League.

25:07And saying it with this sort of air of disbelief, because it was at the time, like Bournemouth were sort of having to make do and consolidate in the Premier League. To go from that into Andonio Iola, I mean, it's kind of mad that he's not already been lined up for a massive job, that he didn't get the Atletico Bauer job, that he hasn't got another job yet because he has done an absolutely astonishing job. And it is, we should say, a perfect collaboration between recruitment, him accepting his place within that structure, not moaning, not pushing particular players, not throwing his toys out the pram if it doesn't work, not downing tools when he doesn't get his way, not downing tools when he knows he's leaving.

25:49Just extraordinary that, you know, we've said it, you've said it a number of times, haven't you James when we talked about Bournemouth they still haven't lost a game since they sold their best player in January which is just like in any other season they would be the story and yes Arsenal are the headline tonight and are the headline this season but Bournemouth and Iriola is just being a remarkable remarkable season and yeah the two young two youngest players are arguably two of the most exciting attacking talents in the Premier League it's just it's all you could want having lost three of their four defenders last summer I mean, it's just unbelievable.

26:24What's it going to be like, though, having lost Iriola? We shall find out. Marco Rosa comes in as his successor. They go into Europe. Possibly Iriola heads off to Europe. We don't know. Does anybody have an idea of where he might be going? No. I mean, if you're Liverpool and you've already stupidly missed out on Xavi Alonso through dithering, I mean, I think there's a free pass for you to kind of pull yourself out of a hole there by appointing her Iola, I would say. Does their sporting director know much about Bournemouth's managers? Well, we'll see. In the meantime, let's talk about Pep, because Monday evening while Arsenal were playing Burnley, the news broke that, as many people suspected, Pep Guardiola will be leaving Manchester City at the end of this season.

27:12The title hopes, of course, are vanishing the next day with that draw away against Bournemouth. what kind of I know it's early perhaps to start constructing epitaphs for his era, reminisce packages and that but some of the numbers are incredible among the many in only three of his nine completed seasons at City failed to finish on top he'll leave with just a cup double this season as mentioned I think on Sunday 20 trophies in the decade that he's been there and would it be right to call in the most influential manager the Premier League scene and one of the most in English football history, Daniel?

27:56Yeah, yeah. I mean, in terms of influential, you know, I remember going to Newport County in a bitterly cold November evening last season and seeing them try and play out from the back and concede to AFC Wimbledon like twice in about 10 minutes because they couldn't play out from the back and you're like, yeah, if you don't think that Pep Guardiola is the most influential manager in English football, It was actually Xavi who said for the first time when he was appointed at Manchester City, he said he didn't just change Barcelona, he changed football when he was here. And I think he's the only person that could change English football by himself.

28:27And yeah, that kind of happened. Xavi knew him quite well, was his idol as a kid. So yeah, he did. I know that there will be people saying, yeah, but 115, 115. And I get that. And that will taint Manchester City while he was there. but I don't think it changes the mastery of his coaching. I think his coaching was still elite. His influence is still elite. He signalled a... He became a pillar of football management during his career here because he stood for something different, which was an obsession with tactics and an obsession with hard work, but also a desire to show people behind the curtain.

29:10You know, he wasn't afraid to be like, I look knackered in this press conference. you know I am you know I know I'm becoming a parody of myself I'm happy to show all of my feelings before that just hadn't happened and yeah he won't be everybody's favorite but I yeah we'll miss him here he's the longest serving manager in English football is that right Daniel yeah so Simon Weaver at Harrogate technically is until the seasons are done but they got relegated so yeah Guardiola now leaves that position and is replaced by Mikel Arteta who is 10 months ahead of second place. So, yeah, that's how long Arteta's been at Arsenal.

29:44He's now 10 months, by 10 months, the longest manager in the 92. Wow. I think what's so interesting, just throwing it forward, is that I've always felt that Pep is what has, you know, I don't think the Premier League is like a Bundesliga or a Ligue 1. You look at some of the managers who've won titles with PSG and Bayern, and they're hardly kind of generational managers. Like, it's just so in their favour that I think you can win leagues with them and as a fairly mediocre manager, relatively speaking. What happens now is so fascinating because do they go back to sort of how they were, you know, under Mancini and Pellegrini, where it's like, yeah, they'll win every sort of league in two or league in three.

30:26You know, I'd sort of expect that would be the case. But to dominate the way they have, to make winning a league, like look at what they've done to Arsenal, trying to win a league against them. Like they have broken that club emotionally, physically, spiritually. like it has taken every ounce of kind of energy of the manager and the players and the fans to get over the line that's what it takes to win a league against pep guardiola city this is the first title race pep has ever lost in the premier league when he's been in a race he's won it like they he has just elevated them in such a way and and i'm just so curious now like because i think you know there was always this synergy he had with the people uh making the kind of decisions on transfers and things.

31:07You know, they built the club in his image. What happens now? Like, I do think as well, we often talk about how good a club's recruitment is, but so much of that is linked to a manager. Like, the same with Liverpool under Klopp. Like, all of a sudden, their recruitment doesn't look quite so smart with Durgan Klopp not as their manager. And what does that look like for City? Like, there are so many players that they've signed that had they gone to United, we'd probably be saying they were terrible signings. But he makes, he improves players so much. What happens under Maresco or whoever? Yeah. What?

31:36I'm just going to say. How confirmed is Maresco at this point? Or Enzo Moyes-Resco? I mean, you wouldn't want to be Enzo Maresco in a way. I mean, I know this is probably his dream job to take the manager. Rather be Emery than Arteta. Yeah, it's... And, you know, the Arsenal kind of filler. It's a really... You know, it doesn't get any tougher in terms of acts to follow, does it? And just on Pett, from my two pennies worth, I just think the way that he... introduce new strands tactically year on year just to to take the team to the next level kept evolving absolute genius um you know when harlan came in it demanded a different style of play and they saw it and they you know they they managed to to make that work and then they've almost riled back on that now where they've gone back to to to be more like the city of old but harlan just happens to be there to be the guy that that knocks the ball into the net now i think from a tactical point of view, he is very special.

32:39You know, he is better than Fergie as a tactician. He is better than Wenger as a tactician. He is the best innovator when it comes to coaching strategies that we've ever seen in this league by a million miles. So, yeah, he's going to be sorely missed by Manchester City, but he needs a rest. It's obvious, isn't it? But I think, Adrian, what separates Guardiola and Ferguson from, say, Mourinho and Wenger, who are very, very good managers, what made Guardiola and Ferguson the greatest is their ability to keep evolving, keep tossing out what had worked. That takes such a strength of character. like managers like Wenger and Mourinho could never quite get their head around the fact that but this works for me this you know I I dominated playing this way this should work I'm not the problem the players are whatever Pep and Fergie were able to say yeah I want everything doing it this way rip it up start again do it a whole other way like that's just in any walk of life that's a very rare skill and that's what I think separated them from pretty much everyone else well the ultimate reinvention now for Man City with Enzo Mureska or someone coming in but if it is him as seems to be strongly indicated by folk in the know.

33:50Chelsea didn't work out, didn't end too well, but it started pretty brilliantly. His first season there was quite extraordinary. Having brought Leicester up, he got Chelsea into the Champions League, won the Conference League and the Club World Cup in his debut season. And then it was the fact that he was talking to City that I think ultimately precipitated his departure from Sanford Bridge. Is that fair? Yeah, and that's the detail, I think, that makes me think that this could work as a kind of continuity appointment. Maresco gave the game away by saying, I've already been speaking to City twice, effectively while he was still under contract.

34:29That suggests two things. Firstly, that City were certainly considering the fact that this would be Guardiola's last season, which I think has been a fairly open secret for a while, and also that they knew that they were going to go down this continuity route. I think it's risky because I think there's a danger within the subconscious of players that if something goes wrong for the first time and it's early in the season, they go, well, Pep didn't do it quite like that. This isn't quite the same as how Pep would have dealt with it. Whereas if you go down the completely different approach, you are saying, well, you know, meet your new stepdad, this is all going to be changing, right?

35:04So that, I think, is a risk. But I think it's the risk that City had to take because, as Charlie said earlier, they built the church for Pep. You know, they let him preach from there. And you either completely knock down everything or you just try and have a slight sort of false replica in for a while. His football isn't as charismatic as Pep Guardiola's football. His personality, I think, isn't as charismatic. and that is where I think the ceiling will be lower. I watched a lot of Leicester when he was there and they were really good. Really good. They blew the championship. But the fans hated it, right?

35:47Because there was no gear change. It was, this is the way we play and these are our patterns of play. We're going to make these patterns of play fantastic and we're going to win the league. And they did. But it was boring because when it wasn't working, he didn't seem to have that gear change. He didn't have other ideas. And I think at Chelsea, it was a little bit of that. Although in the Club World Cup, he adapted quite well to that scenario, did a brilliant job, obviously, against PSG in the final. That elevated his status for sure. But I still think Chelsea fans weren't in love with Mareska's style of play particularly.

36:24So I think he's up against it, is my initial feeling. Yeah, I would say that obviously the Club World Cup is the shining star in his CV. That performance was incredible, but it did feel like a bit of a sort of one-off things aligning. And I just think, and it's no slight on Mraska, and yes, he's going to upgrade from having Liam De Lappe to Erling Haaland, which is, yeah, fair enough. But it never works when you go after a long-term manager. It's never worked in football, and it's just too hard. And what happens is that, you know... Liverpool, back in the football league. No, but Liverpool kind of...

37:02Or on a slot, winning the league after Klopp. Yeah, but A, I wouldn't say Klopp had been there long. He won the league in his first season. And I would say this season might have undermined that slightly. But I just think... Okay, I'll rephrase it. I think maybe Mareska's probably not going to do more than a couple of years at City because he'll either do a slot and win the league next season on muscle memory or it will just go wrong. But I think City will do what a lot of these clubs do and I think Liverpool are probably about to do is have a long-term manager and then cycle through three or four in the next few years because you're then searching for a new identity that doesn't present itself for a while.

37:41I think if my hunch is that if Guardiola had given them another year, then Vincent Kompany would probably have been the guy to sort of naturally step across having been more of the kind of obvious pep disciple maybe than Mureska. I mean, it is kind of mad that we're going to have a potential title race next season between former Pep Guardiola coach Mikel Arteta and former Pep Guardiola coach Enzo Mureska. That's sort of the ultimate legacy, right? Of walking out of the league and going like, right, you guys, I'm knackered. You guys take this over. Well, we'll see you soon enough. Meantime, Pep, not the only high-profile departure this week.

38:19Adrian Clark's now leaving us. Thank you so much, Adrian, for stopping by. Meantime, this season still got a little bit to go and it's a pretty big bit actually if you are one of the teams in the relegation battle because that will be going down to the final day Spurs and West Ham still in the mix after what happened at Stamford Bridge on Tuesday night we'll get on to that next

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41:42What a good choice it was too. An incredible goal from the Chelsea captain. Back at the bridge part two. And it did get a bit tasty at times. Chelsea beating Spurs 2-1, which means that with 90 minutes to play in this Premier League season, Spurs are two points ahead of West Ham. Spurs facing a home game with Everton at the weekend. That's good. They're at home, right? Yeah. And while West Ham are also at home to Leeds, a West Ham victory in that game, along with a Tottenham defeat, will send Spurs down. Any other combination of results means that the Hammers will be relegated. How was this trip to the bridge?

42:26How were Chelsea? Chelsea were pretty good, certainly until they went 2-0 up. And then, weirdly for a team that hadn't won at home since January, assumed the job was done and coasted through, or tried to coast through and made things really difficult for themselves. Tottenham were really lacklustre first half. The major mistake is not trying to do something with the attack in January, I think, because if they go down, that's what will cost them. There are a number of bodies there and it's a sort of, you could make a decent Frankenstein's monster if you kind of put all those players together. You'd get one really, really good Premier League centre forward or one attacker.

43:07But they are component parts and they're just not working well enough. And Chelsea slightly picked them off. They are still two points ahead of West Ham. How much of a positive is it the fact that they have James Madison back and functioning ahead of this final game? yeah he's definitely I mean he's also got the personality I think that you know they need someone who could step up and deliver a moment I mean obviously he's got experience of being relegated before so you know that's a very positive association for him but yeah he does like I think he also such a big issue Spurs have had is that awful home record and the lack of connection between the players and the fans he is the one guy most of the fans can really get behind and rally behind and feel like he, you know, really represents them.

43:51So I think just from that respect, he makes a difference and could make a difference on Sunday. I mean, it is staggering, two home wins all season. It's genuinely hard to get your head around. But they don't need to win. What do you think the atmosphere is going to be like, Charlie? It will be really positive, certainly from the start. I mean, they've, you know, to be fair to them, like the Forest game in March, They made a huge effort to kind of end any toxicity and they greeted the players off the bus and they really kind of tried to lift them and they lost the game 3-0. To be fair, they tried to keep up that positivity.

44:27You know, they haven't been like, ah, well, screw you. We tried and it didn't work. Like they've continued to be like that. They liked Zerbi. They believe in him. So I think it will be positive. but also tense, no? Could be really tense. Yeah, yeah. And the Leeds game showed that, you know, the last game they had at home where they were ahead and then it just got very edgy and they just, they really lost control of that game. Watching them tonight, like the main takeaway, they weren't awful, but the main takeaway, the thing that jumped out was just how incredibly fortunate they were that Villa effectively tossed off that home game against them.

45:02I mean, Spurs played well, Spurs played well in that game. It wasn't just that Villa didn't want to win the game. But that could very easily be the defining match in the relegation battle because yeah, I thought they'd beat Leeds at home and they didn't. I thought they'd been Brighton at home and they didn't. They do only need a draw now, which is an important thing to say because they aren't going to have to push at it. And if Everton are at any degree of half-paced, there is a way of managing that situation. But that kind of leads to Zerbi in a weird position. He is not a manager who you would think would just go out and play for nil-nil even if that might be the right thing to do i mean there's something quite beautiful in the fact that it's david moyes that can essentially keep west ham in the premier league um you know after yet again taking them well yet again and also obviously taking them to top half finishes and european trophies so um yeah i mean more i mean given that he mentored arteta as well moyes is the sort of force that continues to control everything in this competition The real most influential manager.

46:05Exactly. Yeah, except when it comes to efforts and substitutions and tactics. But, you know, that's a minor detail. Among the people watching Nervously events this Sunday will be the bean counters at London City Hall after the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, revealed that London taxpayers could lose up to£2.5 million a year if West Ham are relegated. I probably need to explain why, no? Okay, so Khan says that predecessor Boris Johnson agreed the worst deal imaginable. That doesn't sound likely. But anyway, in 2012, under the 99-year lease agreement, West Ham will be paying the Greater London Authority half their current annual rent of$4.4 million if they're relegated.

46:50So London taxpayers will have to make up the funding gap. Ouch. I'm a London taxpayer. Yeah, that's not ideal. Mind that gap. I'm not. I'm not in the...

47:05Well, who's backing West Ham this weekend? Do you know, I think the only scenario I can think that would fit this battle is if Spurs lose at home to Everton and West Ham draw against Leeds, right? That's like the perfect end to this season for both clubs. And I think having watched both Leeds and Everton live fairly recently, I would rather play Everton than Leeds at the moment. The other thing to say is I've seen people sort of say, well, it doesn't matter. But I think I'm right in saying that 2.8 million is now the per place reward in the Premier League. So for each place you finish higher, you get 2.8 million pounds of effectively...

47:45Tax-first money. Yeah, exactly. London or otherwise. And Everton can move up three places with a win. 8.4 million pounds is quite a lot of money to a club whose finances have been pretty stretched over the last X number of years and have just got a new stadium. So I don't think David Moyes would go out to not bother anyway. But there is an incentive for teams to win. Leeds can move up a place as well. Like, it is worth it. I think we just have to be grateful that we've got to a final day and there's going to be a proper relegation, you know, dual screen, what's happening. The goal's gone in here, no, it hasn't.

48:21You know, remember the one when it was Wigan, Sheffield United against Wigan, and that's one of the great final day games. Yeah. Yeah, and we've just been robbed of that the last few seasons when everyone's been relegated by March. We'll also have the battle for European contenders, Charlie. Yeah, I mean, Bournemouth, if it does, if sixth spot is opened up as a Champions League place, I mean, yes, it would take Villa both winning the Europa League and then falling to fifth, which if they lose and Liverpool win will happen. Which I think is reasonable, right? Because Villa are away at City and they'll be hung over either way.

48:54And Liverpool are home to Brentford. Liverpool are home to Brentford. I mean, Bournemouth have got a three-point advantage over Brighton, but Brighton have the better goal difference. So if Bournemouth lose and Brighton win, then they could take that final Champions League spot. Which could be. Which could be Champions League football. But may not. It may just be Europa League. But, you know, that's fine. It can be a busy show on Sunday. Right now, though, let's move on from round 38 of the season and hear about the extraordinary events that followed the Independent Disciplinary Commission of the EFL reviewing Southampton's case.

49:30That's next.

49:39This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. It's been a massive day of news in football. Beyond the Premier League storylines, the EFL announcing that Southampton have been booted out of the promotion playoffs. As a result of their activities peaking at other teams' training practices, Saints were charged with watching a Middlesbrough training session two days before the first leg of their playoff semifinal. I think they've admitted two other such offences against other clubs. And as a result, they will be out of the playoff final, which they were due to play next Saturday with Hull.

50:19Middlesbrough will take their place and Saints will receive a four-point penalty for next season in the championship. Does that seem harsh? Should they have hired Lord Panic? What do you think? So firstly, I mean, the first thing to say on a boring point is that they are appealing and that appeal will be heard within the next 48 hours and the decision will be made. And that's in front of a new panel. So that's the first thing to say. Secondly, what the EFL have done here, and I think they're right to do it, is to say, this is something which categorically we need to nip in the bud. We cannot have this ever happen again.

50:58And if there's any risk of it happening again, there has to be a deterrent punishment that says no. And actually, you could deduct Southampton 30 points the next time they're in the championship and they would still rather, I think, would still rather play the playoff final because you get£100 million for getting promoted. So the reward is so great that it's worth taking the risk unless the deterrent is so big. That said, I am quite surprised at the severity of that punishment. I didn't think that they would kick them out of the playoffs. I think it's slightly messy having to reinstate Borough because, as we've heard this week, there are multiple cases for multiple clubs.

51:39And yet Borough are the only ones who are going to get a reprieve. So if I am another club that Southampton spied on, I would say, well, hang on a minute. Why do we not get a reprieve? Although in the two other cases that I can recall seeing, Southampton didn't actually win either of those games. But amongst the aftermath of them, this story has clearly got lots of gas left in it. Southampton players it's reported tonight by The Athletic are exploring their options regarding legal action against their own club if the EFL's verdict to expel them from the championship player final is upheld so quite right I'm not sure how that works well quite right because if you if you have done nothing wrong yourself and you've done everything else of your contract and you've been given a shot to get into the Premier League and things like performance promotion bonuses and wage rises upon promotion, yeah, I mean, they'll have a case.

52:38The mad thing is that there are so many different potential cases here against Southampton. You know, if you are an employee that has potentially had your reputation besmirched by being part of this story, then you would feel very aggrieved. The main thing I'm waiting for is someone to realise that Arsenal lost to Southampton. Yeah, I was going to say that, the treble. The treble, a treble has been ruined here. I mean, you say that about the players, Daniel. They didn't want that City FA Cup semi. You know, it gave them one less game that they probably didn't want. So Southampton played their part in Arsenal's title.

53:15And you say that about the players, Daniel, which is very fair. But at the same time, there were binocular celebrations being doled out to middle players. Yes, Taylor Harwood-Bellis has had a bad few days, hasn't he? Well, we'll see what happens over the next few days then. Borough currently lined up to face Hull at Wembley on Saturday. Before we leave things tonight, the one other big bit of news, I think people would agree, has been one of the World Cup announcements. It's Brazil's 26-man squad for the upcoming Tourne, which had two major headlines. One, that Neymar Junior is in it, and the other, that Jean-Pedro isn't.

54:00huh a brutal scenes i don't know if you saw the film of jean pedro's family who would basically assemble to watch the squad being announced ready to cheer and the names come and the names go and the faces get longer and longer and yeah jean pedro out of the squad neymar jr though hmm excited to see him back at the world cup i actually think like neymar being in the squad is a big deal and it raises questions about pressure on Carlo Ancelotti to pick him, etc. That's not normally Carlo's MO. I think the weirder pick than Neymar for João Pedro is Endric, for João Pedro actually, because Endric has had 2 ,000.

54:42He's played all right at Lyon in the second half of the season, but he's had 2 ,000 league minutes in three years. I know he is kind of heralded as the next prince of Brazilian centre-forwarding, but João Pedro's been excellent this season and Endric hasn't for quite a long time. So yeah, that's the one that surprised me. The pick of Neymar is a problem because if he's in the squad, we can already see it, right? Every time he's not on the pitch, the camera's just going to be going to him on the bench if Brazil aren't winning or analysing his celebrations. And that's us. In Brazil, it will be 100 times that.

55:19So Carlo Ancelotti is not a man who shies away from pressure, but he has created an added element to a complicated work a bit. On players left out of squads also, Mateus Fernandes not being in the Portuguese squad, I think is as interesting. Have you got that in front of you, Daniel? Because that was announced on this Tuesday as well. Their midfield is several shades beyond ridiculous. Yeah, it's hard to say, yeah, they've got options. I wouldn't disagree with that. But Mateus Fernandes has been phenomenal this season and I thought would be there as he's kind of lined up with PSG interest, et cetera, et cetera.

55:55But yes, Portugal do have a number of options in Madrid. Who have they got up to? Yeah, speaking of players who are really unwanted distractions. I think there's a lot of suggestion in Brazil that although Neymar has managed to overcome some of his long-running injuries and play consistently since his return to Brazil and Santos, that this has got a lot to do with lobbying from federation sponsors, media groups, that kind of thing, because he has remained such a huge name, such a huge draw for the Brazilian audience. Your mind kind of goes back a little bit to the final of World Cup 1998 and whatever went on behind the scenes to get that late change to the XI for Ronaldo in there.

56:42Anyway, we'll see. I mean, he's done pretty well for Brazil at World Cups. He's got eight goals. He's got eight goals. 13 World Cup games is pretty good. And some belters as well. Yeah. Roll him out. Be all right. Five subs. Halftime's going to take 36 minutes. He can have a nice rest. He'll be fine. Excellent. Excellent. Igor Thiago of Brentford and Ryan of Bournemouth are also in the squad, by the way. That is the thing that is slightly disconcerting, I think, because when I was a kid, you know, the thing about the World Cup was you got to be like, well, I've heard of some of these Brazilians, but, you know, just seeing them on TV is going to be amazing.

57:24And it's like, oh, it's a Brentford and a Bournemouth player. I mean, you know. A Bournemouth player who was dutifully tracking back tonight. Yeah, celebrating a clearance with the crowd. Come on. Your passport seized after that, I would say. Well, we'll have loads more excited talk like that about the World Cup as we count down to the tournament with preview shows and then once we get out to Los Angeles with daily coverage fresh actually in whatever place you receive your podcast every morning The next Totally Football show though will be on Thursday when we'll be reviewing the Europa League final Villa against Freiburg and we'll also be looking ahead to the final day of the Premier League season and probably some other stuff as well.

58:15Who knows what other news may have broken by then, Saints regarding it or otherwise. For now, though, I think that's it for tonight's special show. So many, many thanks to our special guests, Daniel Storey, Duncan Alexander, Charlie Eccleshire and Adrian Clarke and to producer Charlie and you, listener. I do hope you've enjoyed it and you'll join us again soon. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

59:10The Athletic FC.

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