Arsenal beat Spurs 4-1 again, as Liverpool break Forest hearts

0:00The Athletic FC.

0:30Tom Williams: South London. Have we seen the last of Glastner in the nation's other tension at the Palace story? It's all coming up in this Totally Football Show.

0:43Tom Williams: Hi everyone, welcome to the Totally Football Show. Just friends getting together on a Sunday evening to put down some thoughts about another big weekend in the Premier League for your enjoyment. whether it's here on YouTube, live on a Sunday evening, or perhaps in the comfort of whatever environment you choose for your podcast listening. Colin Miller's here with us. Hey, Colin.

1:04Daniel Storey: Hey, James. How are you?

1:05Tom Williams: Hey, I'm very well. Have you had a nice afternoon?

1:07Daniel Storey: Oh, yes. Packed full of Premier League football. I wouldn't rather spend it any other way.

1:11Tom Williams: Bingo.

1:11Colin Millar: Tom Williams, you're fresh off the Eurostar from Paris. Yes, fresh-ish within the last four hours.

1:19Tom Williams: Yeah.

1:19Colin Millar: So, yeah, that counts. I'll say fresh.

1:21Tom Williams: That counts. and Daniel Storey's on the big screen of course viewer stroke listener hey Daniel hello James you've been everywhere you've you were in Sheffield today is that right yes saw Sheffield Wednesday get relegated at Bramall Lane but it's only February today indeed the earliest ever relegation

1:41James Richardson: they will 100 % get the lowest ever points total yeah they actually showed a bit of fight in the second half because Sheffield and I had a man sent off but yeah pretty depressing stuff for them Right.

1:51Tom Williams: They did also get an 18-point penalty, which is why they are in such a terrible position, poor chaps. You've also, this weekend, been to both Gateshead and Truro.

2:02James Richardson: Ish. Because of the Sheffield derby, I drove to Truro on Friday morning, met up with Gateshead supporters there, spent the evening with them, went to the game on Saturday, which I only realised on Friday night was a 5.30 kick-off, had been moved to TV, which meant that my drive home post-game to Nottingham to then head to Sheffield was two hours later than I thought. So yeah, I got home about 1.30, left the house about 8.20am, which was, yeah, not enough sleep.

2:33Tom Williams: Not enough sleep. You did see a huge result though, down in Truro.

2:37James Richardson: Yeah, Gateshead had lost, before last Tuesday, they'd lost 15 games in a row, the bottom of the National League. And yeah, they won. They had three shots in the game, two of them went in the second is gone viral enough for non-league goals but it was a phenomenal turn and then solo dribble and finish from the edge of the area so yeah it was uh yeah you go and do those pieces and you have this idea of how you want them to end and the team winning uh having lost 15 games in a row recently with a wonder goal while everybody goes mad and jumps up and

3:12Tom Williams: down is pretty much what you can ask for right i imagine the the point of the piece was that there There are fans from Gateshead who, even with their team losing 15 games in a row, were still prepared to make the longest journey ever undertaken by English football fans. Is that right?

3:25James Richardson: Yeah, for a league game. Yeah. So 924 mile round trip. There were actually 157 Gateshead fans there, which is a slight bone of contention because at Halifax last Tuesday, there were 27, which is one of the close away games. So I think there were a kind of plenty of supporters thinking, well, this is the challenge. This is the one I want to do. so I spent the weekend with the support of society who are the guys who most of those have not missed an away game in four years which is when you're a fan of Gateshead is some effort so yes as long as all those are at Solihull Moors in a couple of weeks it's okay

3:59Colin Millar: alright then inverse fair weather fans like only going when it's really complicated and turning their noses up more straightforward trips well there you go

4:11Tom Williams: alright speaking of games which went viral I am indebted to the Lim report and others who actually know it's all the Lim report but the Lim report posted about it many times talking about a game which if you haven't checked it out listener stroke viewer you really need to it's Wellington Phoenix against Auckland FC and a quite staggeringly unfortunate own goal by the Wellington goalkeeper is that right Tom? Yes

4:39James Richardson: It's long by Gerber White and goodness me What an absolute catastrophe for Josh Oluwajemi

4:47Colin Millar: Josh Oluwajemi, to give him the credit Basically an opposition player hoofs a clearance downfield and Oluwajemi has strayed from his box It's all alone as the ball descends towards him from the sky and for some reason decides to try and head it but succeeds only in heading it into the net that he has vacated. From a considerable distance. From about 25 yards. Right. So a goalkeeper heading in an own goal from this into 25 yards. They lost 5-0, by which time he had been subbed off at half-time. And his coach Giancarlo Italiano, which sounds like the spoof name you give to an Italian coach in a football sitcom, announced his resignation in the post-match press conference.

5:33Colin Millar: so not only one of the greatest own goals of all time but with the most phenomenal fallout as well right Daniel

5:39James Richardson: to link to what is a never to be good about our next subject Eloy Amy is also a Tottenham Hotspur Academy graduate so yeah bad stuff Spursy

5:51Tom Williams: chapeau Mr. Story you can try and escape the Spurs

5:55Colin Millar: you can go halfway around the world but it will find you sorry Spurs fan

6:00Tom Williams: final destination

6:02Colin Millar: Spurs edition

6:02Tom Williams: Spurs edition. All right. Well, Daniel, you want to talk about the North London derby. We'll do that after we check on the results from this matchday 27 of the Premier League season. Arsenal got their first win in three, but their second straight 4-1 win over Tottenham Hotspur by that scoreline on Sunday afternoon. That leaves City five points back, although with a game in hand after Man City beat Newcastle on Saturday two goals to one. A brace from Nick O 'Reilly, giving them what was their 17th win in a row against the Magpies at the Etihad. That's a record in the Premier League, I think even beyond the Premier League.

6:40Tom Williams: Just top division record madness. Elsewhere on a stormy afternoon at Southhurst Park on Sunday, Crystal Palace did beat Wolves 1-0. although it was a slightly close thing. Palace getting their first home win in any competition since November. Fulham, meanwhile, surprised everyone by going up to Sunderland and winning 3-1, ending thus a run of three straight defites for the Black Cats. That's now back-to-back home losses. And a huge goal Sunday afternoon from Alex McAllister. Alexis McAllister in the 97th minute at the City Ground in the game between Nottingham Forest and Liverpool. gave Liverpool a big, big win, one that leaves them level with Chelsea and Man United in the race for top five football and leaves Nottingham Forest just two points above the bottom three.

7:29Tom Williams: Crikey. Chelsea this weekend drew 1-1 at home to Burnley after leading for almost the whole game. The Blues have now failed to beat any of the promoted sides at Stamford Bridge this season. Elsewhere, Brighton beat Brentford 2-0 at the GTEC. That's only the Seagulls' second win in 14 matches. 1-1 for Leeds away to the slumping again Aston Villa and no goals but possibly a very useful point for West Ham at home to Bournemouth despite having 20 shots the Hammers 20 shots anyway Everton Man United is coming up on Monday night United with a win would move clear of Chelsea and Liverpool into fourth spot we begin with the team at the top this is the Totally Football Show

8:13James Richardson: with James Richardson part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Martinelli, Madweke, Odegaard. Jokeres wants it and he's got it. And Jokeres makes it four. And all that remains now is for Arsenal songs of celebration to reverberate around a rapidly emptying Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.

8:36Tom Williams: The sweet touch of Jokeres. Let's see what I'm doing there. Nicely done. Yeah. Yeah, Arsenal fans appreciated that. Two players who've had a lot of questions about them, I guess, Eze and Jokeres, both coming up with big, big answers. As Arsenal pick up what I read, is their biggest win away at Spurs since 1978. Ooh, that feels big, Colin.

9:01Daniel Storey: It feels very big, James. The Spurs stadium announcer just before kick-off said that sometimes there's a fire to be lit. They are nervous as hell. We are calm. We are ready.

9:12Tom Williams: The Spurs announcer said sometimes there's a fire to be lit.

9:15Daniel Storey: Yeah, I'm not sure which team he was talking about, who was nervous as hell, but Tottenham were... I mean, look, there's ways of analysing this game, and I think at half-time when Tottenham had got back into the game at 1-1 with the Kulamuani goal, which was a gift from Arsenal, Declan Rice had dallied on the ball, on the edge of his own area, minutes, or 24 seconds after play had restarted from Arsenal taking the lead, done at the other end. And Arsenal players had done a team huddle and Declan Rice kind of took over and he was pointing to his forehead being like, you know, concentrate. You know, this year we're 1-0 up.

9:47Daniel Storey: We need to concentrate, focus. This is just 1-0, 24 seconds later. This does not slip. Yeah, very much the Steve and Gerrard vibes coming back again. And at that moment, you kind of thought Tottenham are back into this out of nothing. Could this be a repeat of Arsenal's collapse really at Wolves just a few days earlier? and after the break it was really one way traffic Arsenal were dominant apart from the one moment where Kulamuani thinks that he has equalised for a second time from what was Spurs' second shot of the game really and it had been disallowed by the on-field referee for a push on Gabriel and what I would say very quickly about this is that I think it's an easy decision to give because there's two hands on the back of Gabriel but I'm not sure that that justifies the decision being correct I think in terms of optics, it's an easy decision to give, but in terms of the force of what that was, and Gabriele was always trying to win a free kick in that situation.

10:44Daniel Storey: And that's the one issue from Arsenal, is that for both of those incidents, they were so passive in central defence. And that was the same on Wednesday against Wills. It was the same against Brentford as well the previous week. So that is an issue they've got. But in this game, Arsenal were just far too good in all departments. And obviously they got their four goals, as we'll speak about.

11:02Colin Millar: And I think what sticks in the crawl, particularly for Tottenham, with regard to the goal that was ruled out, is that as video producer Jake, who watched the game with us, pointed out immediately, when Hugo Iketike put both hands on the back of Sergio Romero as he rose to score what I think proved to be Liverpool's winner in the fixture between Spurs and Liverpool at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium just before Christmas, the goal stood. and the punditry was, well, if you're going to be a centre-back in the Premier League, you've got to be stronger than that. Zero sympathy for Romero. And last season when Gabriel scored the winner, in this exact same fixture, there was similar placing of hands on an opponent's back.

11:43Colin Millar: And I think, I mean, it was that classic kind of thing. I think had the referee not ruled that goal out, I don't think VAR would have intervened. As Conor says, whenever you see a player putting both hands on an opponent's back, they're running a massive risk but it did feel soft and obviously if that goes in and it stands you potentially get a different outcome even though I think Arsenal were you know worthy winners in the end.

12:08Tom Williams: Daniel would that be your reading Arsenal who had wobbled despite having the leads against Brentford and Wolves this time around came up with something of a statement second half?

12:18James Richardson: Yeah I thought Tottenham were appalling in pretty much every department Igor Tudor picked a back three and yet Victor Jokerez had three central defenders and he had about 25 minutes to touch and score his first goal it was a really good finish but it was like it looked like one of those shots they practiced before a game when the bullies just rolled to them there was so much time for him he used wing backs but then that never worked because Jed Spencer's got pinned back by Bakayi Saka and Archie Gehrie isn't a wing back I think it ended up with Matthijs Tell at left wing back there were four central midfielders on the pitch at the start so that's Bissouma, Gallagher, Saar and Palinia who was used as a sort of right-sided centre-back and yet there was so much space in midfield to Arsenal they in the first half they sort of played it quite slowly sort of looked some standard Arsenal sort of probing looking for an opening second half they realised you could just run through the middle there was no one there and then even even in the final third My vague memories of Tottenham actually creating their own chances or trying to is just one player trying to dribble for about 30 yards and eventually getting crowded out.

13:25James Richardson: It happened to Xavi Simons two or three times, it happened to a Charleston twice. I thought they were absolutely appalling. Really? And yeah, I did. I don't think they did anything. I know the game had the slight vague element of this could be close because Spurs were gifted a goal straight afterwards. and Declan Rice, as Colin says, kind of sort of laughing to himself at how he's been hoisted by his own petard. But yes, Tottenham were appalling and I thought it was really interesting that before the game and in the first 10 minutes there was this real big energy from the stadium. We've got rid of the manager we don't want.

13:59James Richardson: This guy's going to bring the fire. We're going to be upbeat. We're going to be at it. And they were for about 10 minutes before falling behind. And by the end of the game, the stadium was basically empty. And that is pretty symbolic of, you know, they've got a huge injury list There's a massive disconnect with the owners and supporters. This manager has come in and said after the game, there are ways of phrasing that. And Tudor after the game, he started by saying, yeah, we need to work hard, which is a pretty cliche playbook. Then he said, well, we're playing the best team in the world in Arsenal.

14:29James Richardson: I thought, if I'm you, mate, that's not how I'd frame this game by saying that Arsenal are the best team in the world at the moment. That's not going to go down particularly well, I don't think. It just all looked a bit, yeah, it looks a bit messy. Arsenal were really good and we shouldn't gloss over that. And Eze stepped up in this fixture again, fair play. Geokre is probably the best I've seen in play this season. But boy, Spurs were really bad.

14:53Tom Williams: Plenty of people commenting on our YouTube channel. Pineapple Tree Trunk says, we knew Dr Tottenham could help cure a side-spore form, but it's new that they're offering bespoke treatments for individual players. Cage, long series of numbers, says Spurs aren't getting relegated. Four points. Four points now the gap. Spurs aren't getting relegated unless they lose every game and West Ham turn into 2011 Barcelona, which doesn't sound likely. Do you share, do we share a caged long series of numbers confidence about Spurs' invulnerability at the bottom end?

15:25Daniel Storey: Oh no, I definitely think they could go down. I definitely think they could go down. I think they've been the worst team in the Premier League this calendar year. And obviously Igor Tudor's come in for this match and I don't think many people know too much about what he's like tactically, but he's like a short-term fixed guy. But as Daniel says, I think systematically this was a bit of a mess. You had a lot of players in positions where they were very clearly uncomfortable. Arsenal did have so much space in dangerous areas. And yeah, I mean, Eber Echeese, who had scored a hat-trick against Tottenham earlier in the season, obviously there was a big episode last summer where he had looked set to join Tottenham and at the 11th hour, Arsenal came swooping in and he made the move.

16:06Daniel Storey: And Sky Sports, who were covering the game in the UK, had said, that this was his first shot on target in the Premier League in the three months since that 4-1 victory over Tottenham. So he is obviously a guy who can come in and perform in these games. But it also speaks to Tottenham's inability sort of across the pitch because they carried no attack and threat in this game. The only attack and threat they had was Arsenal mistakes. There was no sustained pressure throughout this game. And yet defensively, they were really, really poor. There was just so much time and space for Arsenal's attackers.

16:38Tom Williams: And again, to cite video producer Jake was particularly exercised by the sight of Archie Gray trying to stop Jokeres as he proceeded, as he basically honed in on goal to make it 4-1.

16:51Colin Millar: It felt like the closest we've come to seeing specifically the sporting version of Victor Jokeres and watching him occasionally last season, he seemed to get an awful lot of goals by running in behind, which you can only do if you're playing against a team that is playing with a high defensive line. Most teams don't do that against Arsenal because they know that it's suicidal. But I think because Igor Tudor was so determined to get Spurs high up the pitch, we saw the man marking, which is one of his trademarks, particularly in the first half. There was a video that has popped up on social media of him screaming at Mickey van der Ven to push up out of possession and van der Ven looking a little bit unsure as to whether that's actually a good idea.

17:32Colin Millar: And Gioca has showed what can happen when A, you give him acres of room to run into and B, you give him centre-backs that he can bully. The duel with Dragushin was relatively well-balanced to begin with and then Jokeres got back on top. And yeah, by the end, he's running past 19-year-old Archie Gray, who is a midfielder, filling in as a right side of the centre-back. Most teams won't make that mistake against Jokeres, but Spurs did and paid the price.

17:59Tom Williams: Give us a stat about Eberici. Is he in the derby?

18:01Colin Millar: He has now scored as many goals for Arsenal against Spurs in Premier League North London derbies as Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie and trails only Emmanuel Adebayor, an all-time Arsenal top scorer in this fixture, brackets in the Premier League era, close brackets, Robert Perez. Extraordinary.

18:22Tom Williams: Daniel, the gap now five points over Man City, the very same five points that the City themselves have dropped against Spurs, which will be a big comfort to Tottenham. Hotspur, of course. A week ago, actually no, not even a week ago, three days ago, we were convinced that clearly Arsenal were now going to bottle the title. Are they now definitely going to win it?

18:41James Richardson: It was the perfect fixture and the perfect opponent to play. That now feels like hindsight but if you'd have asked me on Friday I'd have said exactly the same thing because Tottenham are a mess. If Arsenal are good at one thing or the thing they're best at and Arteta is best at, it's identifying an obvious flaw in an opponent and repeatedly exploiting it and that's pretty much what they did against Spurs. no it's not nailed on anymore it can't be because City have got a game in hand and they've got to play each other so it is in both of their hands at the moment so it's not done I thought it was a few weeks ago I am wrong again I still think they'll win the league I do I still think that it's no bad thing necessarily to have these kind of kick up the backsides to switch on the repeated sharing of individual mistakes is weird Gabrielle's done it a couple of times Timber's done it there was a period in the first half where like six different Arsenal players made a bad pass in about 10 minutes they're still having those weird periods but most of the teams they play from now on they are significantly stronger and have stronger squad depth there we go next up for

19:43Tom Williams: Arsenal it is Chelsea Chelsea have got one or two issues of their own as we'll be getting on to very very shortly but next up let's have a look at the other games on Sunday

19:59Colin Millar: This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

20:03James Richardson: The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around.

20:27Tom Williams: Sunday's other games three games at two o 'clock one of them saw Liverpool going to Nottingham Forest and winning 1-0 but they left it very very late Daniel I imagine you were watching this as were probably a lot of West Ham fans who must have been very excited come that McAllister goal.

20:45James Richardson: Yeah, it was a pretty cruel blow for Forest, obviously. They were the better team in the first half. They should have taken the lead before half-time. They have now gone 55 shots in the Premier League without scoring a goal, which is, you know, you'd file that under not ideal. And Vitor Pereira was asked whether we might see Chris Wood again for the rest of the season. He kind of said, I hope so. He didn't sound particularly upbeat. So for periods under Sean Dyche, it felt like Forage were basically playing with the ghost of Chris Wood up front, you know, doing the same things, but no wood there.

21:18James Richardson: They've looked really good under Vito Pereira in the first one and a half games that he was in charge. The three-nil win in Fenerbahce was miles above expectation. They played really good football first half, you know, give and go at the opponent, not sitting back. and then yeah got done well almost got done after 91 minutes uh when Enola Ainer clearance hits Alexis McAllister on the elbow and goes in and is disallowed because they're the rules and then yeah literally four minutes later McAllister does score I have to say I thought it was going to be given offside when I saw it the first replay and saw it live to the fact it wasn't hurt twice I'm minded to think that this is a step forward because the football looks better but the cliche is results are king when you hit the spring so Forest need a win at some point pretty soon because they are without them in the Premier League for too long

22:12Tom Williams: Results are king when you hit the spring will it be a bummer when comes summer that would be the question only two points Daniel between yourselves and the bottom three and West Ham Collins says are turning into Barcelona circa one of the good years. So, yeah, very, very worrying. What does this mean for Liverpool, who, with the victory, which, to be fair, Jamie Carragher described as one of the biggest robberies in the Premier League this season. So he wasn't a fan of their performance either. They move up to tie Chelsea and Man United in the race for kind of fourth and fifth.

22:54James Richardson: Yeah, I mean, the main takeaway from the game was that, Ivana Slott is going to keep the job beyond this season. He's going to have to make that front three a meritocracy between now and May. Because Mohamed Salah was brought off after 77 minutes, same as Cody Gakpo at the same time. And in 20 minutes that remained with injury time, Rio Nagamoa, he did miles more than either of them combined. He was direct, he dribbled. Mohamed Salah sort of laughed when he was brought off as if he couldn't believe it. It's like, you've done absolutely nothing all day, mate. You've not really done anything since you signed that contract.

23:32James Richardson: So, yeah, they're going to have to... He just... Ngamoua gives them such a burst of energy because he drives at players and he takes them on. He provides crosses into the box from both sides. And, yeah, there's just no energy in Liverpool in the first 60 minutes. They were appalling in the first half. They really were. They just looked so flat. If he does that, then they can still qualify for the Champions League because everybody is somewhere between medium and awful in that group from one week to the next. So, yeah, as you said, they're level on points with Chelsea, which is unthinkable given where we were not that long ago.

24:07Tom Williams: Yeah, Chelsea and Man United. Man United, of course, have a game in hand because they're playing on Monday night against Everton. But those three teams, it looks likely that two of them will get into the top five in Champions League football and one's going to miss out. Chelsea not doing their chances the best of, well, not helping their chances on Saturday when they welcomed second from bottom Burnley to Stamford Bridge. And for the second game in a row, the Blues scored early, looked in controls, but once again set fire to the points, in the words of their manager, Liam Rossegna. The big question, in the 93rd minute, when Burnley had the corner from Ward-Prowse, who missed their assignment?

24:46Tom Williams: Who? Well, there is speculation.

24:50Colin Millar: according to producer Charlie I don't want to claim responsibility for this it was Andre Santos who was one of Liam Rossini's most trusted lieutenants during their days at Hasborg together but apparently he was not picking up anyone on the fateful Burnley corner and on the next corner that Burnley had he was picking up ZM Fleming which kind of suggests he perhaps what he should have been doing for the corner before.

25:14Daniel Storey: On the next corner it was Brun Larsson had a free header which went just over the bar as well. So obviously this wasn't just an isolated incident. Chelsea did really struggle with those set pieces.

25:26Tom Williams: So Burnley had trailed for 89 minutes fully in this game and very nearly took all three points.

25:31Daniel Storey: Yeah, Burnley are an interesting one. I think that they are the lowest quality team in the Premier League in terms of individual... I thought we gave that to Spurs before.

25:41Tom Williams: Did you not say that they were the worst? I think they could be... Is that this year calendar year?

25:45Daniel Storey: They've been wishing this calendar year. I think in terms of individual players, any team could go down. I don't think there's anyone in that Burnley team who screams to me that, oh, there'll be other Premier League clubs sort of forming a queue to try to sign them. I think even if you look at Wolves, they've got a handful of players to do. But Burnley aren't really about that. I could see Burnley's team more or less end the same next year in the Championship. But what I would say about them is that they have plenty of spirit. They have plenty of grit. So obviously to be behind for so long in this game and to get a point, Chelsea only had one shot on target after they scored in the fourth minute.

26:19Daniel Storey: So they really limited what Chelsea could do. But Burnley have done this at Anfield. They did it recently against Manchester United. They came from behind and almost beat Tottenham a couple of weeks ago too. Obviously 2-0 down at Crystal Palace and won. So there's plenty of sort of positive signs there. And I actually think that that reflects a lot better on Scott Parker and his coaching team than it does on the club ownership because I don't think they have recruited in a way that has really given them a fair chance to stay up in the Premier League. I think a lot of their fans probably feel quite similarly to that.

26:55Daniel Storey: But I think they're probably in this position at the minute where they're the perfect UU team, right? But for Chelsea, this sort of has concluded a run of games where they've played a lot of the teams in and around the bottom. So they've played each of the three teams in the relegation zone, played Leeds, who are 15th, Palace, who are 13th. now they're away to Arsenal, away to Aston Villa. They've got a really difficult run-in, but I would maybe sort of balance that a little bit by saying I think this Chelsea team kind of raised their game when their backs are more against the wall and whenever they do have a higher level of opponent.

27:30Daniel Storey: So I think it could be a really interesting couple of months for them, but I think they really need Champions League football.

27:35Tom Williams: Second week in a row that they have dropped points, as I mentioned, after being in a leading position. and Lobotics weighs in on this topic. It says, hot take, Villa will be the ones to miss out. Villa, who also ended up drawing with a team kind of relegation battle adjacent in the shape of Leeds. What's happening with Villa, Daniel? Let me just call up the stats here, because it was about a month ago that they hadn't lost at home for a year. And now they, well, this weekend, they very nearly lost their third home match in four.

28:08James Richardson: I mean, they're really struggling in the first half of games at home now to kind of impose themselves. When Villa are at their best, they don't let you breathe. They don't let you get out. It's relentless. That just isn't happening. So the last four home games at halftime have been 0-0, 0-1, losing. 0-0, 0-1, losing. They last scored in the first 30 minutes for home game on the 9th of November. So it's just almost like they're feeling their way into the game. And they were really good second half. And when an opposition team tires, as Leeds did in the last 20, 25 minutes, they are all over you again.

28:42James Richardson: But I don't know if it's just, you know, accumulated fatigue. I think they probably need to try Tammy Abraham with Ollie Watkins more, particularly against kind of sturdy, sitting deep defences. But yeah, they just don't really look at it in the first half of games. Even the games they've won. So I remember the Forest game, the first half hour, the crowd were really touchy until Watkins scored from outside the area. And those outside the area goals have been the kind of pressure valve release this season. When they don't happen, when they don't create goals out of nothing, they're not really creating goals that much at home.

29:18James Richardson: So, yeah, I think it's one win in the last four home games against opponents, pretty much, that you'd expect them to beat or certainly compete with. and yeah I can see why our esteemed commenter thinks that they might be the ones to miss out because they are still in the Europa League they have got that Thursday Sunday sort of relentless cycle to come and it is hard to keep up.

29:43Tom Williams: Okay they have a six point margin over the team in sixth place which is still currently Liverpool on goal difference. As for Leeds that's only two defeats now in their last 14 matches am I wrong about that Tom?

29:55Colin Millar: No, I was just oohing in anticipation of the imminent conversation about the Anton Stach goal that put them ahead, which was fantastic.

30:04Tom Williams: Two defeats in 14. They took the lead here through, as you say, an outrageous free kick.

30:09Colin Millar: Yeah, and it was one of those where the free kick taker surprises the goalkeeper by shaping to cross, looking intently at the players on the edge of the penalty area and very deliberately not looking at the goal and then swinging it into the top corner. But I think it was so well disguised that I think the entire stadium was caught by surprise. I mean, I was caught by surprise watching it on TV at a great distance. And Anton Stak had missed Leeds' two previous matches, the 2-2 draw at Chelsea, the 3-1 win over Forrest. And he's had a huge impact since he came in. And Daniel Farker really sang his praises in the pre-match press conference talking about what a complete footballer he is.

30:49Colin Millar: there was quite a lot of focus last summer about the physical profile of the players who Leeds targeted lots of big lads basically and Anton Stack was one of those big lads

30:59Tom Williams: kind of nominative determinism

31:01Colin Millar: well exactly very much so but he's also a really good footballer and I think he's got four goals now in the Premier League despite generally playing in a fairly conservative midfield role and yeah this fantastic piece of invention and audacity and you know almost got Leeds a win I think the concern with Leeds is that they've been on this great run, only two defeats as you say James in 14 but they are drawing an awful lot of games, they're not yet completely clear of danger and they've got 31 points on the board with 11 games still to come so you would have thought they'll be safe, I think they've shown they're good enough to save themselves but they need to start getting a few more wins on the board

31:40Daniel Storey: Just very quickly on this game as well, we talked about Aston Villa's atmosphere it was interesting because Ollie Watkins who's been quite bad the auto form recently but he had said that the atmosphere was flat he was sort of quite critical of people leaving the game early as well and it's such a curious thing because Villa are having such a good season but there are these issues where they are their outgoings are still massive so their so their ticket prices are particularly high I think it's 77 78 points for home tickets and a lot of there's a lot of sort of dissatisfaction among the fan base at that kind of that kind of pricing structure and I think that has now sort of filtered through to an atmosphere and for them to have had such a strong home form and now to be stumbling a bit it maybe just reflects that a little bit um that that fans maybe aren't getting behind them in quite the same way as they might have done um just a few months ago but i do think that they them being out of the fa cup is a big is a big help for them and we're sort of talking about the sort of relegation battle i think nottingham forest having those european matches can be really not just draining physically but emotionally.

32:42Daniel Storey: I know that's probably not what Daniel wants to hear, but I do think that could really come into play because all of those teams mentioned in Leeds' lack of defeats, West Ham's very much uptick in form recently, and Forest obviously still have quite a lot of quality in that team too. That's kind of why I'm getting worried about Tottenham is because they are one team in that group who are really badly out of form. But I think it's going to be really interesting and how other teams balance cup commitments with league on top of that because I think that could be decisive.

33:16Tom Williams: Top matches to go, of course, and loads to talk about from this weekend, including two more games from Sunday afternoon, which we'll do next. Fulham's remarkable win away at Sunderland and also the latest events in what's turning out to be a troubled time for Oliver Glastner's Crystal Palace.

33:40James Richardson: show with James Richardson now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show.

33:48Tom Williams: Totally Football Show European Edition is out with you Tuesday. We'll be looking forward to the Champions League playoff second legs, which are coming up Tuesday and Wednesday. And looking back on the weekend's action, Real Madrid losing against Osasuna. What does that mean? I don't know. We'll find out on Tuesday. Juventus beaten again. Suddenly all coming unstuck for Speletti with La Signora. But anyway, that's coming up on Tuesday. Look out for that. Right now, we head to south-east London and Crystal Palace, where, on Sunday afternoon, the mood was dramatic thanks to a dismal run of form. Their 1-1 draw in the Europa Conference League on Thursday at Mostar.

34:27Tom Williams: And Oliver Glasner, the manager's subsequent presser, on Friday, in which he said things like this.

34:34James Richardson: I'm just not good enough to replace the players we sold.

34:40Colin Millar: I'm just not good enough to integrate the new players in a way that we can play the same way like we did. And I'm not good enough that we can cope with the schedule. I was good enough to have to play the best season ever to win two trophies. And we have now 32 points after 26 games. And I looked back because I like to look back sometimes.

35:01Tom Williams: In the last 10 years, Crystal Bellis has been better twice. Sunday then brought a 1-0 win against bottom-of-the-table Wolves, who did have a chance to take the lead themselves, but they saw their penalties saved. They then went down to 10 men, after which Ivan Gassin's goal in the 90th minute earned Palace a much-needed win. How much does that help things? Matt Woosnam joins us now. Matt, Palace getting their first home win in any competition since November, albeit not in the most convincing of fashion. What's the mood post-game, though? Are there changes in store?

35:35James Richardson: It's a pretty negative mood, given that Palace have won. I think really it's a mood of relief, but there's so much anger towards the manager of the Glasner still. After his pre-match comments, which said that the Palace fans should stay humble, that didn't go down well at all. The fans held up a banner, the Homestead Fanatics and the Ultras group, they held up a banner which referenced his comments and basically said that that was unacceptable and that he had lost, basically he had lost the fans. I should say they also own criticism at the board as well in that banner. But yeah, given that Palace has just won and that they're on 35 points and 10 clear of the relegation zone, it's all very negative, really.

36:21Tom Williams: Well, this is a point that Glaston touched on as well. It has been a remarkable fall in popularity from his successes winning the FA Cup and the results last season. To what extent do you sympathise with his position when he says, I look back because I like to look back at the things we achieved?

36:39James Richardson: Yeah, I think Glasner's been an incredible manager in terms of results. And when things are going well, I thought he spoke incredibly well and came across superbly. He said after the games, he tells his kids every week to be humble, to stay humble. And I think he did say that to Palace fans throughout this season. But the problem is when you say that, when you've won one in 15, now two in 16, you can't say that and expect to get away with it and expect fans to accept it. But the results were fantastic. Obviously winning the FA Cup, winning the Community Shield this season, that 19-game unbeaten run across all competitions.

37:24James Richardson: But then on the flip side, it goes to, I think it ended up being a 12-game winless run. So I completely understand where he's coming from in saying that, you know, the results and that and look at the results and, you know, appreciate that Palace has done well. But it's the fact that he keeps on saying these things when he should be more contrite and more accepting of the situation being bad and take more responsibility for his own part in that. And I think the performance today was incredibly average against a very poor Wolves side. And to them, they didn't really look like they were going to score.

38:04James Richardson: And it was a great piece of skill from Tyree Mitchell and a great finish from Ervin Gusson. But it wasn't a good performance yet again. And the fans didn't like it at all.

38:13Tom Williams: So it's Man United away next Sunday for Palace. Will Oliver still be in charge, do you think, Matt?

38:19James Richardson: I think so. it wouldn't really make sense in my opinion to sack him after a win over Wolves even though the thing that will be in Chairman Steve Parrish's mind is the reaction of the fans today but that has been clear for a long time and he will be aware of that but that is where Steve Parrish tends to decide on a manager's future is when they lose the fans that is kind of what seals their fate but as I say Palace are 10 points clear of relegation They're three points off Bournemouth in eighth. They could still have their best ever season, points total in the Premier League. They could still go on and win the Conference League.

38:58James Richardson: No one really feels like those things are going to happen. I should make that clear. But unless you have, you know, Glaser has got that experience in Europe. He's won the Europa League in Weintraub Frankfurt. To get rid of him before that game against Mostar on Thursday, the second leg, wouldn't make sense. I think more likely than not he will be in charge against Man United. But I don't think anyone can say with 100 % certainty that he will be.

39:28Tom Williams: Matt Woosman. Some would say 10 points clear with the relegation spectre safely at bay. It's actually not a bad time to maybe make a change that needs making. But poor Wolves. They were seconds away from going level. with Derby 07-08 and 11 points, but instead have to wait for another week. Any thoughts on Palace? I don't imagine that anybody else saw this because we were all... Colin, you were watching the Sunderland Fulham. Tom, you were all over, I think, your way back from Paris. I was. And Daniel, you'll have something to say, I'm sure, in the score in the eye.

40:05James Richardson: I have indeed, yeah. I think Glasner should go straight away.

40:08Tom Williams: Right, there you go. Sunderland Fulham, Colin. What a surprise this was. Fulham had lost three straight games. Sunderland, who until their most recent home match against Liverpool had been perfect at home.

40:19Daniel Storey: What happened here? Probably unsurprisingly, this first half was very disjointed in the sense that these two teams entered the game without any real form behind them. It was disjointed even more so with Sunderland having injuries of Nody McGealy and Jocelyn Tabi, who I think that's how you pronounce them, an Ivorian winger. He's making his Premier League debut, having joined the club last month. And Sunderland have had a bit, like Sunderland's early season form it's all about the sort of continuity and the combinations they had and they managed to embed a lot of new signings in very quickly but that has been disrupted so heavily first of all by AFCON and then by a lot of injuries and Granit Xhaka came back for this game but he was only as a second half substitute so yeah they miss him quite a lot this game Fulham were always in the ascendancy albeit there wasn't really too much going on until the second half and the game turned whenever Romain Mundell who had been one of the first half substitutions missed a really good opportunity for Sunderland that was against a run of play, but he found himself free from one-on-one in the area and he put it wide.

41:18Daniel Storey: Minutes later, Fulham go up the other end. They go in front for a role. Jimenez header, a free header from a corner. A couple of minutes after that, he then makes it 13 penalties from 13 in the Premier League that he has scored, which is a league record. And yeah, Sunderland did rally. They had a penalty of their own, Enzo Le Fay. He didn't do another Penenka like he did against Brentford that got him quite a lot of criticism. He blasted this one into the top corner. But Fulham got a third lead on through Alex Wolby, who was probably the man of the match. I think he was, again, very, very impressive.

41:50Daniel Storey: He links everything up so well for them in the final third. And he had a really nice finish for this goal. And yeah, I mean, Fulham back into the top half. It's very, very congested in that area. Sunderland are in a mini slump. And I was sort of thinking, you know, the form that they've been in for the past sort of month or so, maybe a little bit concerning, but they're not going to go down. They're 11 points above the relegation zone. They've got a lot of time to sort of take in these problems and maybe have a bit of a reset going in, maybe to the final stretch of the season, but also targeting the positions they might need in summer as well.

42:24Daniel Storey: So it's not the worst time for them to hit a poor run of form because they've no pressure on them. And yeah, Fulham would just Fulham, weren't they? I mean, I always say it, but I always think that they're a 6 or a 7 out of 10. You can always sort of rely on them to put in a consistent, reliable level of performance. And yeah, they're 10th in the league, which kind of speaks to that too. So there wasn't too much that you would learn from this game other than the fact that, yeah, Sunderland's squad depth maybe does leave them a little short whenever they have a few players out, I think. And that was the case in this game.

42:54Tom Williams: Magnificent. Let's move on then to Saturday night's Manchester City victory over Newcastle. 17th straight win at home to the Magpies. This one looked like it was a tough test, though. The way the City players, City manager as well, looked drained at the final whistle. They'd been in a real battle. Was it Newcastle making a real go of it or was it City's own wastefulness? What was the story here?

43:21Colin Millar: Well, it's the kind of classic City performance, specifically in 2026, where they start pretty strongly and then just seem to kind of run out of ideas at half time and find themselves trying to manage the game. albeit with the difference on this occasion that Newcastle equalised very swiftly after Nico O 'Reilly had put City ahead. O 'Reilly then restored City's lead pretty much equally swiftly. But the game kind of sort of drifted out a little bit. City still had most of the ball but weren't creating masses of chances and ended up having to get through a fairly nervy last few minutes. Newcastle won a corner right at the end.

44:06Colin Millar: Nick Pope goes up and you thought, you know, they could very easily concede an avoidable equaliser here. I thought it was interesting how City lined up. It looks like Pep Guardiola has settled on a new go-to system for big matches. This is the same system that we saw in the win at Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, where Erling Haaland has got Omar Mamouche up front alongside him. You then basically got a diamond midfield with Rodri at the base, Semenyo and O 'Reilly on either side. And then Bernardo Silva in this kind of free roll as a 10 when City have the ball and kind of drifting around when they don't.

44:48Colin Millar: And I think there are several advantages to that system. One of them is that you get Nico O 'Reilly in his preferred position. we got so used to seeing him as a left back that people forget you know he came through the academy as an elegant ball carrying attacking midfielder and we're now seeing that he scored a beautiful goal in the 3-0 win over Fulham scored a really nicely taken brace and the second one against Newcastle was quite funny because it was him heading in across from Erling Haaland and Haaland when he's got Marmouche alongside him rather than out on one of the wings, gets much more involved in the play.

45:26Colin Millar: I think he had more touches yesterday than in any previous Manchester City appearance. So having another striker alongside him and having that different system behind him means that he's more heavily involved. He didn't score, but he did set up the second goal and he looked a bit more connected to the second goal.

45:46Tom Williams: After putting the cross in, he helpfully...

45:48Colin Millar: Yes, he showed Nico O 'Reilly the way to go. So not a massively convincing win for City, but it keeps them on this positive dynamic. That's three wins in a row, beginning with that win at Liverpool, which felt very important in terms of its timing, and allowed them to put the pressure back on Arsenal. And this system does feel like it's giving them something a bit different.

46:09Tom Williams: OK. FBL Banger podcast says, how has Pep managed to turn Nico O 'Reilly from Zinchenko to Yaya Toure in a couple of months?

46:18Colin Millar: He was Yaya Torre already. Gordiello was trying to turn him into Zinchenko, who, lest we forget, can also play midfield. And then realised actually he was better off just keeping him in the Torre role.

46:29Daniel Storey: I think the thing about Nico O 'Reilly is he was a very impressive left-back as well. It's not like he was struggling there. I mean, there was a lot of talk that he could be England starting left-back in the World Cup this summer. But he's got the passing ability. He's got the positional awareness. He's got the discipline to do the defensive work as well. and he's probably learned a lot of left back doing that. But also that ability, the time runs into the box. And when you do have Erling Haaland up front, what that means is that the defence inevitably kind of drops back against him. So it does create that little bit of space in the edge of the area.

47:01Daniel Storey: And City maybe lacked a little bit of that dynamism in previous years and they've got more of that now. But stylistically, this is such a different Man City from the previous editions of winning leagues when it was all about control of the ball and sort of passing movement to workspaces. Now it's much more direct, it's much more vertical and that speaks to the players that they've been signing. Antoine Semenya, of course, in January adds to that as well. So in terms of his directness, his running and his power, they're a different team.

47:30Tom Williams: Also, a little bit earlier on in the season, Gigi Donnarumma, how influential he's been and a big save to keep this incredible streak of victories against Newcastle at home going. They're going to be meeting again in the FA Cup fifth round in a couple of weeks' time. They could potentially meet up as well in the Champions League. Very good. That keeps City, as you say, on Arsenal's coattails. Elsewhere this weekend, there was a 0-0 draw, but probably a useful point for West Ham at home to Bournemouth. That was Saturday tea time. West Ham with 20 shots, their most in a game this season.

48:06Colin Millar: Almost a couple of worldies, one per team. Ryan, who's made this fantastic start to life at Bournemouth, this young Brazilian player who's come in from Vasco da Gama.

48:17Tom Williams: Haian.

48:17Colin Millar: I mean, Haian. If Jack Lang was here, he'd be aggressively correcting me right now. Haian. It does make it sound kind of curious, doesn't it? But, I mean, there we go. That's his name, Tom. What can I tell you? Fakes the ball up deeper in his own half out on the right wing, flicks it over a defender who slides in to try and dispossess it, drives down the right-hand side, cuts in to the edge of the box, then curls in a shot that flicks the outside of the post. And then moments later, Tati Castellanos almost scores a World League at the other end with an Andy Carroll tribute of an overhead bicycle kick that flew over the crossbar.

48:49Colin Millar: West Ham's expected goals in this was nearly three. So watching it felt quite an even game. But in terms of the quality of chances, they were almost all West Ham's. And ultimately, two teams who are both on a good run of form, points not a terrible result for either, kind of counts each other out in a way.

49:05Tom Williams: Sean Self writes in and says, you joke about Bournemouth. We talk about Brazilian players feeling at home there because of the beach and that. Sean Self says there's genuinely a largest Brazilian contingent living there specifically because of the beach. A friend of mine, his partner, is Brazilian, moved them down there and opened a Brazilian cafe.

49:25Colin Millar: I mean, if you were trying to sign Brazilian players and you're at Bournemouth, you're going to flag the proximity to the beach.

49:29Tom Williams: Yeah.

49:30Colin Millar: Don't necessarily show them what it looks like or talk about average temperatures or boring details like that. Bottom line, there's a beach. You're Brazilian. You do the math.

49:37Tom Williams: I think wherever you're from, show them the beach. Show them the beach. Okay. And they will come. Brentford took on Brighton this weekend, another beach-adjacent side who were at the GTEC and produced a 2-0 victory. 10th of November 2002, Daniel Storey. What was number one?

49:57James Richardson: Unbreakable by Westline. Oh! You're a big Westline fan. I mean, it would be weird if I'd have known that, but I have read that this week. Have you? Sure, sure, sure. We believe you, mate. That and I'm a Westlife Stan.

50:08Tom Williams: Yeah. And what an appropriate track to have been number one when a 16-year-old and 309-day... Well, when a 16-years-and-309-day-old boy... That sounds strange however you say it. When, at the age of 16 years and 309 days, a young lad by the name of James Milner took the field, becoming the Premier League's second youngest player ever at the time. he went on to record a number of remarkable feats including becoming the youngest goalscoring in Premier League history later that season at the age of 16 years and 356 days I've learnt my lesson now he's turned out for six Premier League sides he has reached now the greatest number of games ever most number of appearances in the Premier League 654 he is James Milner Best that of all, and this is one that does my head in, James Milner has played in 1.3 % of every top flight game since 1888.

51:14Tom Williams: All the top flight games played in all the seasons in over 100 years, well over 100 years. More than 1 % of those, there's been James Milner in. And, crazily enough, Gareth Barry, you can say the same about him because he's only got one game less. I mean, yeah, you do the math. You already have done the math. You brought the math. Someone else has done the math. Duncan Alexander did the math. You have shared the math. I wouldn't believe it.

51:38Colin Millar: Yeah, well, maths can do that.

51:40Tom Williams: Yeah. Here's another stat. Just over 5 ,000 players have featured in the Premier League since it was formed in far away 92-93. Of those, almost half, 49%, have either played alongside James Milner or against him in a football match. Isn't that incredible? How incredible is James Milner, Daniel?

52:00James Richardson: Yeah, he is incredible. He really is. I think there's been a lot talked about his longevity, which I get. He's 40 years old. He's playing as an outfair in the Premier League. That is amazing. The longevity angle has come about because he hasn't been a regular for a long time. So he's not started. He last started 20 league games in a Premier League season in 2017. So between the ages of 31 and 40, he's basically been able to do half seasons, which has kept him going. I think the great credit to him about the number of appearances is that he made so many before he was 21. That's the remarkable thing.

52:34James Richardson: And he is now a very, very, very nice person, a very good teammate, a very useful squad member to have around. And so people give him contracts because he's a brilliant role model and leader at a club. He's not a chess-beating passion leader, but he leads by example. so that's why he's around and that's why he's still getting game time in the Premier League and yeah I mean it's it's absolutely phenomenal he looked a bit sheepish about the whole thing on Saturday he obviously knew it was coming but there was a big deal made of him you know his teammates had to kind of push him forward at full time I'm glad for him that it came with Brighton winning because they've been on a rotten run and if it had happened with the kind of 2-0 defeat to Brentford rather than 2-0 win it would have probably been missed but he got his moment and so yeah I mean 40 years old as a fellow 40 year old man to be still playing elite level Premier League football is is ludicrous.

53:30Colin Millar: Not to poop the James Milner party obviously this is a great achievement everyone loves James Milner but let's not forget you look at the list of all-time Premier League appearance makers, James Milner 1, Gareth Barry 2, to take a random example, Ryan Giggs No. 3, made 40 appearances in the English First Division before the launch of the Premier League. So he's played that number of games more than Premier League historians would have you think. And as journalists in particular, but for all of us fans of the Premier League, it makes sense to talk about things in Premier League terms, but the whole point of records is that they are historic and Premier League era records overlook a hundred years plus of English Football League history.

54:17Colin Millar: The actual record holder for English top division appearances is Peter Shilton. He played 848 matches. I don't think that Milner or Barry or even Ryan Giggs even creep into the top 20. And we all remember football before 1992. So you see these Premier League era stats, you think, go okay yes Premier League era football assisted beforehand in like 30 40 years time when we're still only talking about the Premier League those 100 years plus of English football history just won't come up at all and I for one I can hear Duncan Alexander rolling his eyes at me as I speak but I think that is a great pity I remember seeing a stat at some point Sergio Aguero had gone past Dennis Law in terms of English first division goals.

55:03Colin Millar: That meant an awful lot more to me than seeing him, you know, outscore Niall Quinn or Dion Dublin or something. And I think around the world, people really admire the history of English football. And I think we all do English football a disservice by going along with this slight pretense that what happened in 1992 marked a fundamental change with what existed before. Obviously, the Premier League revolutionised English football. Totally take your point. It was a massive deal, the razzmatazz, the money, etc, etc, etc, etc.

55:40Tom Williams: Just one thing. Did you begin all of this by saying, I don't want to poop the party at all, and proceeded to then completely body James Milner's...

55:48Colin Millar: I thought if I just ploughed straight in with the party pooping, you guys wouldn't take it. I thought I'd lull them into a false insecurity by pretending I'm not going to do this. With all due respect, James Milner.

55:59James Richardson: I think if we're doing shout-outs, I mean, not just for other reasons, but rather than Peter Shilton, we should shout out Tony Ford, who is the record Football League appearance maker for outfield players. Goalkeepers just stand there. Who was he, Daniel? So he played 931 games, but the greatest thing about him is that his first Football League appearance was in 1975, and his last was in 2002, and he's an outfield player. That's the good stuff. All right.

56:30Tom Williams: Seconded. That is the good stuff. All right, you've got a way to go, James Milner. Get ironing. Good. I think that brings us to the end of today's show. As mentioned, we're going to be covering all the Euro-related topics or the continental news from the weekend and a look ahead at those Champions League playoff second legs coming up Tuesday, Wednesday in our European edition on Tuesday morning. We will then have a special show on Wednesday reacting to Tuesday night's games. And another one on Thursday morning too. Woof. For now, though, many thanks as ever to Daniel. Look forward to hearing your verdicts and conclusions in the eye this week.

57:06Tom Williams: Tom, many thanks to you for making it in and yourself too. Colin Miller and to Jake and Charlie in the booth and you, listeners and viewers. Many, many thanks for your company. We'll be back soon. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

57:24James Richardson: you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for other great podcasts just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic in all the usual places we're also at the totally show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production

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