Arsenal overcome Chelsea as Tudor loses his first two at Tottenham

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1:57James Richardson: Totally Football Show. Today, corners. From Arsenal getting the right angles v Chelsea to Liverpool serving up corner on the cop, we salute the league's new set-piece overlords and bring you all the other news from a high-scoring weekend. Two doors down as Spurs visit neighbours at the cottage, Forest getting frightened at Brighton, United's sesky football, Magpies home misery and much, much more in this Totally Football Show.

2:52James Richardson: Unbelievable, unbelievable. in the studio. Live and dangerous. Wow. You'll be familiar with Seb if you listen to our Tuesday Euro shows and you appear in other bits as well. But Seb, going to be exciting to hear from you in the Euro show in person about the classica Borussia Dortmund and Bayern. Fun old weekend. Familiar themes. Some things we've talked about before but it was still a fun game. Right. A big game for the Bundesliga leaders and of course it's been a big weekend of that kind of thing in the Premier League as well. Daniel's story, you were across all of it as ever and you're here with us.

3:25Matt Davies-Adams: I am indeed. Good evening, James.

3:26James Richardson: Good evening to you, Daniel Storey. Good evening to everybody who's already been on touch on the YouTube comments. Kawan Das, hopefully no Adrian Clarke. Adrian's not with us this evening, although... He was,

3:40Seb Stafford-Bloor: and then he saw the comment and we sent him away. He's just next door in the dark room by himself now.

3:45James Richardson: Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Arsenal, still top of the table, top of the Champions League in every competition. it's getting to some people there's a lot to discuss about what Arsenal got up to this weekend and all the matches really because it was quite a historic weekend it's the highest scoring round of the season so far Matt, it was the first time we've ever had all the games on a single day ending with the exact same scoreline today, Sunday, all four of them ending 2-1 to the home side this weekend also is the earliest that St. Tottenham's Day has ever taken place in a season a fact which has gone sadly unremarked across the blogosphere and also with Arsenal's 2-1 win against Chelsea they became the team that scored the most goals from corners in the course of a single season ever, Daniel Storey.

4:34Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, I think I'd back them to extend that record on the basis that that was pretty much the whole of the game on Sunday. Yeah, I think the moment of the weekend was Jordan Pickford's save for Everton against Newcastle. Useful, keen was brave. Tonight!

4:50Daniel Storey: Jordan Pickford with a world-class stop to deny Tenali on his 100th Newcastle appearance. An injury time equaliser.

5:01Matt Davies-Adams: We normally talk about our favourite goals, but that was an absolutely remarkable reaction save from Pickford.

5:07James Richardson: It was an amazing save. It was a pretty impressive performance as well against Newcastle. What else happened round 28 of the season? 36 goals all told, the highest tally of the campaign. so far. Arsenal had two of them as they beat Chelsea 2-1 to stay five points clear of Manchester City, having played a game more. City, the previous day, 1-0 winners at Leeds. That's their sixth straight victory. Chelsea, after Sunday's defeat to Arsenal, dropped to sixth in the table, three points outside the Champions League places. Above them now are both Manchester United who came from a goal down on Sunday to win 2-1 at home to Crystal Palace and Liverpool, who on Saturday won their fourth straight match, beating West Ham at home 5-2.

5:50James Richardson: Much to West Ham's relief, meanwhile, their rivals in the relegation race both also lost this weekend. Forrest 2-1 at Brighton, all three goals coming in the opening 15 minutes of that game. And Spurs, also Sunday afternoon, losing 2-1 at Fulham. Remaining four points off the drop and Forrest just two. Also this weekend, Everton, as mentioned, won 3-2 at Newcastle. That's the Magpies' fifth defeat in the last six. Burnley and Brentford had a Chaos Classic. The Bees winning 4-3 after a couple of key VAR interventions. It was 1-1 for Bournemouth and Sunderland. And finally last Friday, Wolves beat Villa 2-0 for Villa.

6:29James Richardson: That's now just one win in their last six for Wolves. It's their second win of the season. And finally they move past Derby onto 13 points. The historic worst team ever raced that. No longer in the running. No longer in the running. Shorty stuff will come on to that game later on. We're going to begin though with The match which has just concluded the round at the Emirates. Arsenal 2, Chelsea 1. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson,

6:54Seb Stafford-Bloor: part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

6:57Daniel Storey: Flung in by Rice, Tinders on the line!

7:04Daniel Storey: Sanchez incandescent. The Emirates uplifted. Celebratory.

7:11James Richardson: Timberland for Arsenal, who clear another hurdle. Seb was here in the studio we were watching this together Matt you were commentating at the ground I won't say which but at a ground Seb's question was how did Chelsea lose that game? What would your reaction be?

7:27Daniel Storey: I would say that it was a combination of Arsenal being very good at corners Robert Sanchez throwing in a Robert Sanchez 18 months ago performance and what has now become predictable indefensible red card for a Chelsea player at a pretty crucial stage of the game I thought it was quite a low-quality fare, I've got to be honest, all told. And maybe that's illustrated by the fact that all three goals came from corners. A lot of misplaced passes, particularly in the first half, from Chelsea players. But I think Seb is right in his illusion there that Chelsea will be wondering how they didn't get something from the game.

8:02Daniel Storey: And not for the first time this season against Arsenal, possibly. But it's a good time for Arsenal, isn't it? If they don't play well and they get the three points anyway. and this was their penultimate fixture against one of the current top six for the rest of the season. They've got that monster match against City. Other than that, you would think it would be, if not plain sailing, then certainly less choppy waters than it might otherwise have been. So a very, very significant win for them and a very damaging defeat for Chelsea given that United and Liverpool both won this weekend in terms of Champions League qualification.

8:34James Richardson: All right. Villa's form will be of some comfort to Liam Resenia and his cohorts. but yes, a concern to see them drop down to sixth. Liam Toomey posting that Arsenal haven't been great today, Sunday, and their fans are audibly anxious, but they have discipline and a great goalkeeper. Chelsea have neither. Yourself, Matt, defining their performance as sloppier than prison porridge at halftime. No, this is Forrest. Oh, that was about Forrest. Could it also apply to... No.

9:00Daniel Storey: I'm too deeply on the payroll at Chelsea to say something like that publicly.

9:05Seb Stafford-Bloor: I have a Robert Sanchez question. So I kind of, I check out of English football when I go home and I've come back and it seems like the Robert Sanchez conversation is in exactly the same place as when I was last here. Has there been a kind of an uptick in his performances? Because it feels like this has been part of his repertoire for some time.

9:23Daniel Storey: I think that there has been an uptick, but it was noticeable from this game. And this must have been a message from Resinia, the amount of time he was taking when he had the ball before he made a decision and cleared it. and that seemed to give him the ips and give Arsenal encouragement because that nervous crowd that Daniel talks about was there from the off, sorry, Liam talks about was there from the off but then it all became about baiting Sanchez whenever he got the ball and jeering him and trying to make him make a mistake which he did a couple of times albeit not punished for it but yeah, that winning goal was extraordinary in that you see a keeper protest that vociferously you think something must have happened there's definitely something's happened there's no way that he's just not got off his line and then Timbers headed it in without jumping off the ground.

10:04Seb Stafford-Bloor: Because you can't sell a foul like that in the VAR era. And also, the louder the protestation, the sillier you eventually look when it's replayed in the stadium as well.

10:14James Richardson: That might not have been a foul. Were other incidents deserving of some referee or VAR attention? We'll come on to that topic perhaps now, as we ask Daniel what he made of the performance from both sides.

10:25Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, I thought the goalkeepers effectively decided the game. I thought Raya is, I mean, he's the best goalkeeper in the Premier League at the moment. He made a fabulous save from the kind of Declan Rice elbow that ended up not mattering because Chelsea scored from the next corner. But just the kind of, just the confidence he breeds in the players around him is night and day to Chelsea's team. I don't think Arsenal play particularly well. I don't think any of their outfield players are at peak performance at the moment. But Raya is pulling them through. So they don't look shaky in open play, but they did look shaky at corners, which I thought was interesting because Miklard Teta after the game was like, you know, it's not just about attacking corners, it's about defending them.

11:07Matt Davies-Adams: And Rhys James' delivery was phenomenal from open play and from corners. And then, yeah, the sending off changes the game, I think. I think Chelsea probably could have got into it and certainly could have played on that Arsenal nervousness even more if they'd had 11. With 10, they sort of left it late to bring on Lee and De Lappe and really do the kind of kitchen sink approach. They would have probably done that earlier if they'd had 11. And Neto. I mean, I was impressed by Sanchez's moaning, but Neto, I think, was moaning about his first yellow card after getting the second yellow card, which I thought was quite a niche.

11:42Matt Davies-Adams: Maybe that could be the future. It would get IFAB to look at first yellow cards when you get the second one, just for that real minimum interference hit from VAR. I assume he didn't know that he got it.

11:52Daniel Storey: I think he just didn't know he'd been booked the first time. I think that was his issue. And I think maybe he doesn't make the tackle second time round. But yeah, don't mouth off at the referee. And if you do, don't walk away when he's booking you because then you'll know. But you'd expect one of his teammates maybe to fill him in.

12:09James Richardson: Indeed. Daniel, you mentioned Declan Rice's elbow, which in and amongst wrapping itself around a Chelsea player, also raised itself to touch the ball in a manner that often gets sanctioned in football matches. Neither that nor his grappling received any attention from the referee or VAR. There is a feeling among people who don't support Arsenal that they get away with an awful lot. What is your take from your incredibly objective position?

12:36Matt Davies-Adams: I think it looks like they get away with a lot from corners because they score from quite a lot of corners. I think the fewer corners you score from, the less you watch slow-motion replays, what everyone's doing at corners. I think pretty much everybody is doing that grappling. I did think it was a penalty. I thought he moved his elbow towards the ball and he was creating the contact that they said was mitigation. But then Chelsea scored from the next corner anyway. So thankfully that was moot. But yeah, I think it's just a case that Arsenal's corners are in absolute hyper focus because they're so good at them.

13:07Matt Davies-Adams: And they are as good or they are better than everyone else in terms of creating chances and scoring goals from them. So therefore, and they're top of the league. So I think there's an inevitable double focus from there. I'm sure they do things that outside the box would be given as free kicks. But then I think everybody does that. I think that's just like my frustration with it is that that sort of feels like 35, 40 percent of the sport at the moment is working out who's going to be better at those corner routines. So and we're just in a situation where we will get through that and it will change and things will, you know, there'll be directives about trying to force it to change and defensive coaches will work out a way of stopping it.

13:44Matt Davies-Adams: But for now, it does feel like a little bit of a cheat code. And therefore, there's this very bright, focused spotlight on everything that happens in the penalty area.

13:52Seb Stafford-Bloor: Can I add a layer to that? Because I think at the moment, we've got kind of a very reactive refereeing mindset here. And each week, there seems to be an issue that comes from that kind of situation. Yeah, it often features Arsenal because they're so good at attacking set pieces. But incident happens. Incident gets criticised online in the mainstream media. referees take a penalty across the week and then they overcorrect by the time the next weekend comes and then when the next issue happens you have more lenience, stricter application of the laws one of those things it feels like we're in that kind of boom-bust cycle

14:27James Richardson: Are Spurs one week out of sync with the referees on that? Yeah, it has been like that for quite a few years now Interesting, we'll get on to Spurs and their match away at Fulham earlier on Sunday but the red card situation so that's nine now Bill Edgar of the Times pointing out, you could almost make a full Chelsea team of the players who have received a red this season. Sanchez, Gustavo Favano, Chalabar, Kukurela, Casado, then a vacancy, Neto, João Pedro and another vacancy. And then, of course, De Lapp. That's a problem that's not getting any better under the new manager.

15:01Daniel Storey: It's not, no. And this is where one of the many differences in the quality of Chelsea and Arsenal right now shines through. because Arsenal's housery is fine-tuned perfectly. And, you know, that's not a criticism on my part or sour grapes or anything like that. But they're instants in the game like where in the first half in Capier messes about waiting to take a throw and Moises Kaysedo loses his head, pushes him off the pitch, lucky not to get booked for it. Enzo Fernandes doesn't agree with the decision. Occasional Chelsea captain, what does he do? Picks the ball up, slams it into the ground, gets a yellow card.

15:33Daniel Storey: These are acts of ill-discipline that border on idiocy that you don't get from Arsenal because they've worked out where the line is, how close you can get to it, and when the referee's not looking at the line. And that's how they play, and it works brilliantly for them. And Chelsea just seem really immature in comparison to that. And some of those players that you named there, James, like Fofana, who was sent off last week, and Kukurea and Neto, these aren't the Chelsea kids. These are experienced Premier League players. You should know better than that. And it was a problem for Maurizio Pochettino to a lesser extent.

16:05Daniel Storey: It definitely was one for Enzo Moresca. and it's probably not realistic to expect Liam Rossini to come in and fix it all in what is seventh Premier League game in charge, but it's a big thing on his to-do list for the summer at the very latest. OK.

16:19James Richardson: Daniel, we've listed a lot of things that we didn't like about the game. What did you enjoy about it?

16:25Matt Davies-Adams: I enjoyed the two right-backs. I thought we were two of the game's best players. Durian Timber was kind of doing that sort of all-action thing where he tries to overlap or underlap Saka. I thought he was, I mean, he's been really good. He's probably been the best right back in the Premier League this season. But if he's got a competitor for that in terms of certainly over the last two or three months, then Rhys James has been phenomenal. I mean, he is, like his open play crossing has improved so much. He's now rightly the corner taker because he can whip those crosses in. I think it was like four or five times where he was two yards behind either Martinelli or Trossard and yet gets back and kind of shapes his body in a way to take the ball and then move away from the Arsenal player and move up the pitch in one movement.

17:11Matt Davies-Adams: He's in such a good form. I so hope he stays fit for the summer because he should be England's first choice right back if he's playing like this because we know he can now play in midfield. We know he can play right side of a defensive three if he has to. We know he can be an attacking fullback and a crosser and a set-piece taker. I mean, Matt will know this more than me and I'm sure he'd love to pour praise on as well, but he's just a complete full-back at the moment. He's leading Chelsea and he's kind of been let down by people around him.

17:37Daniel Storey: Yeah, it's good to see him playing full-back every week as well. He is a very functional sort of defensive midfielder. He can do that and he's actually played as part of a back three for Resinia at Napoli this season. But when he's at right back and he can trust his body that it's going to get him up and down the pitch for 90 minutes and there aren't many people better. And he's a huge favourite of Thomas Tuchel. So I would be amazed, unless there's a fitness issue, if he wasn't one of England's nailed-on starters.

18:04James Richardson: Producer Charlie making the point that all three goals today coming from corners from potential England stars of the summer, Bakao Saka and Declan Rice being the other one. If the Premier League is now adjusted where possible to the likes of Arsenal, their set-piece routines, are England about to take the World Cup by storm? Corner it up.

18:26Seb Stafford-Bloor: It feels like this is kind of us revisiting like a topic from 20 years ago where we go into World Cup and kind of plays with so much pace and power. Let's just do that at the World Cup and maybe we could just corner everybody into oblivion. Yeah.

18:37Daniel Storey: Yeah. At least there's no need for Harry Kane to be taking him this time. Yeah. Indeed, son. Daniel?

18:41Matt Davies-Adams: The other thing we should say in terms of bigger picture stuff for the title race is that Declan Rice was taken off with an injury. I actually thought he looked a bit leggy in the first half and then he had an incident where he ran for the back pass, outpaced the Chelsea player, but then sort of overhit the back pass and went out for a corner. And he was definitely limping after that. Arteta said he will have a look at him for Brighton in midweek. It goes without saying that A, Arsenal have got a lot of games between now and the end of the season in four competitions. And also that Declan Rice is, having said all about that, about Julian Timber and David Raya, is Arsenal's most important player.

19:18Matt Davies-Adams: If he misses any time, it's going to be really interesting how they work that midfield because it's Rice's dynamism that stops them getting stale when they're passing it around the back and giving it to Zubimendi and he's playing it back again. It's Rice generally that says, you know, I'm going to take the ball forward to someone. Finding the other person to do that, I don't think it's Christian Norgard. I don't think that Ebericchieze can play that deep. So it'll be interesting to know what the solution is there if he misses time.

19:43James Richardson: OK. In the meantime, we saw a brief cameo from Kai Havertz making his return from injury, which is very much from the plus side of things for Arsenal. Santiago EH2TS says, what do you guys make of the Champions League draw? Best case scenario for Arsenal and also the worst case scenario for Chelsea. Chelsea, who will be facing Paris Saint-Germain, who they did beat last time they met in the final of the Club World Cup. Arsenal, meanwhile, get Liverpool. He's beaten him as well, hasn't he? Liam Rosini has beaten PSG with Strasbourg. That's also true. So maybe not such a problem there. Now, Arsenal, meanwhile, didn't just get what looks like an easier opponent, but they also got the right side of the draw because all the previous 10 years' worth of Champions League winners are all on the other side of the bracket to the Gunners, who will begin against Leverkusen, by Leverkusen, and then they'll get the winners, if they get passed by Leverkusen, of the Bodo-Glimp sporting clash.

20:42James Richardson: By Leverkusen against Arsenal, Seb? Arsenal.

20:45Seb Stafford-Bloor: Arsenal. So in my mind, and this is meant to sound patronising in any way, for Leverkusen given where they are which is in the midst of a rebuild following all the exits over the summer for them to get through the group stage into the knockout rounds in itself as a triumph I don't think they have anything like the experience or the nous or the frankly the tools to hurt Arsenal or to deal with Arsenal's weapons so yeah if Leverkusen can learn from that game let's employ a euphemism that it could be part of the education for quite a few of their talented young players.

21:16James Richardson: Anything else on Arsenal-Chelsea or should we move on to Manchester City who if Arsenal weren't entirely convincing for their victory I think the same charge could be levelled at Pep's side who very nearly went two or three goals behind in the opening 20 minutes of this game at Ellon Road on Saturday Daniel?

21:32Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah it was really hard going, it's the type of victory we've not really seen for Manchester City and then over the last couple of weeks they've done similar against Newcastle where they got ahead and then were pegged back, scored almost immediately, and then, you know, suffered in the second half, as Guardiola said. They suffered in the first half at Ellen Road. There's a cliche that rings incredibly true, and there's some stat about Leeds at Ellen Road and games that start after 5pm. I think they were unbeaten 25 matches. The atmosphere just gets to you. It doesn't matter if you're really, really, really good at football and really, really experienced.

22:08Matt Davies-Adams: There's something about that atmosphere that if the tails get up, it's really hard to deal with. and Leeds were a storm in that first 25 minutes. They should have had the lead because Dominic Calvallon should have scored a chance that he has been finishing all season and it would be really useful for Leeds if he didn't stop doing that now. But we have to praise City for the way they kind of soaked that up and they killed the game by scoring at the perfect time and Semenyo is increasingly becoming this kind of dual threat attacker in that he's nominally starting on the left. He is driving forward with the ball when they get it and they play quite vertically at times.

22:45Matt Davies-Adams: And then he's almost, like over the last few weeks, he seems to be making these Raheem Sterling runs where Guardiola teaches a wide player to become a penalty box poacher if the situation demands it. And obviously with no Erling Haaland there, the situation did demand it. So he scored one of those six-yard box goals. They've always been Guardiola's favourite, the cutback to someone dashing in the six-yard box to score. And then, yes, he managed the second half really, really well. Better than I thought. When I saw that first 15 minutes, I thought, this feels like City sort of crumple. And I think they would have done three or four months ago.

23:19Matt Davies-Adams: But the difference that Gehi and Semenya have made is absolutely massive. If they win the title this season, then it will be because of those two January signings.

23:28James Richardson: All right. If they win the title of the season, it may well come after they've done a run. They're now on six wins in a row in all competitions. Is it a run? Is it the run?

23:38Daniel Storey: It's a run, certainly. I think actually it was a sort of different kind of City performance, this wasn't it? And other than that opening spell, I didn't feel like Leeds were ever really troubling them. They had 14 attempts in the game and two of them were on target. It did feel certainly in the second half, like Big Brother had let Little Brother punch himself out and then was just going to slap him about and wait for the win. But Daniel's spot on about Gay and Semenya. I think you obviously can't always do this and you shouldn't always do this, but particularly in the winter window that shows the benefits of buying from within the Premier League.

24:15Daniel Storey: You know, you look at how those teams just completely hit the ground running for City. And this is not an easy team to come into, right? If you're coming into Pep Guardiola's teams, okay, he said after his first game, right? There's a lot of detail here for me to try and take on. But the fact that they are familiar with the environment that they're playing in, you know, you compare that to, say, Verts or Cesko or Jokeres, who took a while to adapt to the Premier League and now look like really good signings, but didn't hit the ground running in the way that Gay and Semenyo have. And it's kind of difficult to see where they drop points between now and the Arsenal game, right?

24:45Daniel Storey: They've got Forrest at home Wednesday night. Yes, please, rotate as much as you want for that. Then they've got West Ham Palace and Chelsea to come. They've got a great record against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in recent years. So they're going to take it all the way, aren't they? It's this brilliant situation we've got that if both teams win all their games, they'll win the league.

25:04James Richardson: They'll both be the champions. if either team wins their game

25:07Daniel Storey: I should say because they play each other of course

25:09Seb Stafford-Bloor: one incredible option that is though to have in the middle of a season you're able to take two first rate Premier League players who are conditioned to the league standard who know how to deal physically with the competition why doesn't every team do that? I have no idea lack of foresight just general myopia within football

25:25Daniel Storey: two great pros as well by the looks of things from what we know two really well liked people who can take on board instruction and implement it quickly great advice

25:34James Richardson: City like Arsenal We also have a lot of fixtures coming up, not just in the Premier League. The Champions League draw has given them the rare treat of Real Madrid. How boring. Nine meetings in the last five seasons. But that's the magic of football, Daniel. They might be the same names, but somehow the cards have been shuffled. You get a different story each time, no?

25:56Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, we all wanted the European Super League, really, didn't we? We always wanted Manchester City to play Real Madrid every single season. Yeah, I mean, it is like it's the tie of the round and it's great. I think City are very, very well prepared to deal with that Real Madrid threat. I would back them to go through, but it will be interesting in terms of energy expended before other big games, because like Matt says, they've actually got that tie falls quite nicely in terms of City's fixtures. But if they do get through that, I don't see the strength of depth in every single round, which seems a mad thing to say about City, but they're reliant on some key individuals at the moment.

26:36Matt Davies-Adams: I just... Yeah, I do think they'll beat Real Madrid. I think they will. I think they are too complete to not to. This midweek, Arsenal make the trip to Brighton

26:47James Richardson: where they will be looking for their third win of the season against the Seagulls, while Man City, as Matt mentioned, will be taking on Prison Porridge, a.k.a. Nottingham Forest. Next up, we'll talk about what Forest did this Sunday afternoon and Spurs and others too.

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28:58Seb Stafford-Bloor: This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around.

29:10Matt Davies-Adams: Wilson. It won't be!

29:17Matt Davies-Adams: It's a beauty!

29:19James Richardson: The former Arsenal man increases the Tottenham misery. early Sunday games with West Ham's defeat on Saturday at Liverpool relegation battle looked interesting a chance for Forrest and Spurs to maybe get a little bit of breathing space between themselves and the Hammers didn't work out that way first up Seb you were able to catch some of Spurs and their trip to Craven Cottage to take on Fulham where the Cottagers proceeded to do the double over them

29:48Seb Stafford-Bloor: yeah we're live aren't we so I need to to temper some of my response to this

29:53James Richardson: yeah did you enjoy Harry Wilson's terrifically taken opener?

29:57Seb Stafford-Bloor: No, not at all I think there are a couple of Spurs fans in my WhatsApp groups who saw relegation as a kind of like a doomsday situation not really going to happen it's something we have to respect I think that shifted a little bit because this team has barely got a pulse its standards are shockingly low it has no self-confidence there's really been the needle has not shifted yet under Igu Chirou So if the logic was to get enough of a new manager bounce to bounce out of trouble and to capitalize on Forrest and West Ham losing this weekend and be able to kind of put some distance there hasn't worked.

30:35Seb Stafford-Bloor: Individually, some of these players still don't seem to be taking enough responsibility for the situation. I think there are a couple of exceptions that Richarlison, bless him, is doing his very best despite not being in peak physical condition. and some of the rest of them are. Seems to be this idea among some of these Tottenham players that if it happens, it happens, I'll move on to bigger and better things. Not sure that some of these players' reputations are as bulletproof as they imagine them to be. I don't think there are many moves to Real Madrid or Bayern Munich in the future for some of them.

31:07Seb Stafford-Bloor: And if they go down, it's worth some of these players also remembering that's something that's going to be on their CV for the rest of their careers too, because it's not just the fans that suffer. it say oh you were part of that team okay well i'm the sporting director for this elite football team um no i don't want that in my dressing room thank you very much um so wearing signs and all of a sudden one of my friends said to me um after the game uh that game against crystal palace midweek is almost as big as the game in bilbao now from the summer and i don't really disagree

31:39James Richardson: yeah but palace was the last team that spurs won against in the premier league that was on the 28th

31:45Seb Stafford-Bloor: December. It's one of the worst games of football I've ever seen and it was a victory and it was absolutely terrible. It had no redeeming features as a football match. It was dreadful.

31:53James Richardson: James Moore on The Athletic saying that the arrival of Connor Gallagher, one of the January reinforcements, has actually made the team worse. What does he mean and why?

32:01Seb Stafford-Bloor: I think the point James is making, and I'm going to try and speak for him, is that Connor Gallagher came in as a sort of panicked response to the situation. Didn't necessarily have the attributes that the team needed. That midfield is passing, is crying out for technical ability, forward passing ability. Conor Gallagher, really more of a runner. He's more of a legs. He's more of a sort of a tenacious eight than someone that can receive the ball with his facing his own defense and play it up the pitch and get Spurs moving. Can't do that. And it hasn't worked so far. I'm not sure why. I dare say he joined to play for one head coach.

32:36Seb Stafford-Bloor: Now he's playing for another who's an interim. That probably hasn't helped. But no, that hasn't been the£40 million reinforcement that we hoped it would be. And more troublingly, there are no green shoots. There's nothing at the moment that you look at and think, yeah, I can imagine that getting better in three weeks. And yes, if we can just develop this little aspect of the game, then we'll get out of trouble. Don't see it at all. It's respectfully absolutely rubbish.

33:04James Richardson: Just watching you talking on our YouTube channel, and I'm very conscious of that. It's a good thing I wore the light-coloured hoodie and you've gone with the dark.

33:11Seb Stafford-Bloor: We talked about this. We said, you know, like I also haven't shaved for a few days. We're both wearing glasses. Let's make sure that people can't make that joke. You know, it's not funny when people do that.

33:24James Richardson: Daniel's story, Harry Wilson, is that what you would like to talk about?

33:27Matt Davies-Adams: No, I was going to, last week I said I couldn't work out what Igor Tudor was doing in terms of the system or the shape. and to be fair to him, he changed it and I still can't work out what Igor Tudor was doing with the team selection and the shape. He picked Dominic Solanke and Renacrola Mouane as two strikers and that's good because last week, Colomane looked so frustrated and isolated but then Solanke has clearly been told to play drop really deep into central midfield so he became like an auxiliary average midfielder and Colomane was still left isolated up front to accommodate that he picked Conor Gallagher on the right and he and Xavi Siemens on the left which doesn't do any of them any favors neither of them could even go I'd forgotten after about half an hour that Gallagher was on the pitch and Siemens was only I only noticed because he kept dribbling and losing the ball and then if that wasn't enough he's picking Archie Gray still at left back which is must be the most obvious like if you're an opposition analyst it must be the most obvious weakness and that's what happened.

34:32Matt Davies-Adams: Fulham just got Calvin Bassey to put direct balls onto Archie Gray and they couldn't deal with it because Alex Iwobi was on him. Harry Wilson was on him. And so, lo and behold, they conceded the first goal because firstly, they were too weak defensively, but I do think it was a foul. I think they got unlucky with that, particularly after last week. But the second one is just it looks a really good goal and it is a really good finish, but it's like playing in, like playing mannequins. It's just no one's tracking a man it's just give and go and then have a shot and if it doesn't go in don't worry we'll give you another chance in five minutes anyway Fulham could have been 4-0 up by the time Spurs scored and there was a bit of a rally later on when Rich Alderson came on but it's just nothing I don't get what he's trying to do at all I can't remember who was on Twitter but I think it was Jack Pitbrook was saying the defence looks really bad and they don't look like scoring and I thought that's absolutely true and also the midfield's terrible too and the only reason you're not mentioning that is because that's even more obvious so I just don't know what he's trying to do with the team at all.

35:30Seb Stafford-Bloor: I'm going to defend him a little bit because do you remember the comment Rafa Benitez made a few years ago where he talked about the duvet and how you needed to move it around? Did you do what it was exposed? If it was too small, you would expose a foot. You'd get cold. Your arm would get cold. Same thing with Igor Tudor because you can have a plan, but then you come to your training session and you look at who's in form, who's fit, who's actually good enough to do anything, and you don't have a perfect solution to aim for. You can, in my mind, selecting this Tottenham team at the moment is about hiding weaknesses as best you can rather than trying to find strengths and they're just, I'm not sure it's possible.

36:09James Richardson: The duvet is too small and they don't have any clean sheets either. Harry Wilson, do you like his goal?

36:15Daniel Storey: I do like his goal, yeah. Igor Tudor, I think, has gone a bit early on being so critical of the referees, obviously. There's a nudge in the back which you get the reverse of last week. But Harry Wilson is having a tremendous season. And we're at that stage of the campaign where we say, great chance for Fulham to have a late run at getting a European place here before they inevitably don't do that. But 40 points, what, three behind Brentford. Everton in that mix as well. Yeah, Everton in that mix as well. Baffling Everton, who we'll come on to. But nice little run for Fulham coming up. They host West Ham, then they've got Forrest, then they've got Burnley.

36:50Daniel Storey: So get yourself in that mix.

36:52James Richardson: Although Burnley, certainly a very different proposition, as we'll be discussing very, very shortly. But the other two o 'clock game featuring a side in the relegation mix was Noddigan Forest's visit to Brighton, which, Daniel, you were watching, and it was the first Premier League game this season to see three goals scored in the opening 15 minutes. There were no further goals, but what an exciting opening quarter and hour it was.

37:18Matt Davies-Adams: That's the real quiz, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Brighton, who have been on a bad run until last weekend, were miles better than Forest. Forest scored one really nice goal. Morgan gives right from outside the area, but just don't create enough clear-cut chances. Haven't all season. I don't suspect Will until the end of the season. They have now added to that particular bow the string of being weirdly defensively incompetent and allowing two players at the back post to be marked by one person and then looking a little bit surprised when one of them gets a bit of space. That's how both of the goals came from.

37:54Matt Davies-Adams: Mistakes, the first from Nico Williams, or I think Matt Sells probably should save it. And then, yeah, this kind of mistake from Williams and Murillo, who just looked tired throughout. There's just no energy to Forrest. I don't know if it's a result of Thursday night, although they made quite a lot of changes for that game, so it's not an excuse. But having just said what we said about Igor Tudor, the Vitor Pereira Premier League managerial bounce hasn't happened either.

38:16James Richardson: Indeed not. Brighton winning back-to-back matches for only the second time this season in the Premier League. Curiously, the previous occasions were also against Brentford and Forrest. Forrest, having got through on Thursday night, will be up against Midtjylland again. And last time that didn't go well, Matt.

38:33Daniel Storey: Didn't go great, particularly not for Ange Postacoglu. No, I was at the Fenerbahce second leg on Thursday. And that was a pretty spectacular mismanagement of the game as well. Vitor Pereira obviously likes playing with the back three. did it for 45 minutes, went so well he had to make four subs to change the formation at half-time so everything about Forrest screams relegation Why is it?

38:54Seb Stafford-Bloor: Because I look at that team and I look at the players available and I don't understand why it's so bad But if you're asking why is it so bad, surely Spurs is the more egregious example We want to move on from that though We want to shift it back towards Matt I mean you can, but honestly

39:09Daniel Storey: what is the flaw? You can use Use excuses and there's some legitimacy to them about the number of games with having the Europa League as well, which is something that as a club for us don't use too. You can use the fact that they're on the fourth manager of the season. But there comes a point where there's got to be some accountability. And personally, I've tried to give the players as much rope as possible and say, well, Sean Dyche was inhibiting Elliot Anderson, who's not had a good game for, I don't know, three or four months. We've got a brilliant back five. It was so good last season. Murillo, Nico Williams absolutely stank the place out today.

39:40Daniel Storey: there comes a point where some of these players have got to start taking responsibility. I don't think you'd have any of Forrest's attacking options in any of the other teams who are struggling at the moment this season. So there's lots of mitigation for why they're so poor, but some people who are better than they're showing need to put their hands up. And some of the people who had a combined£200 million spent on them in the summer should be doing a lot more to put pressure on the places of those regulars who've been underperforming all season.

40:06Seb Stafford-Bloor: That's the similarity with Spurs. There's so much noise around the first team that people forget to point fingers at the first team. It becomes easy to kind of not hide, but not take responsibility.

40:16James Richardson: Brighton, having won two straight games, will be hosting Arsenal. That's on Thursday, I think, Daniel. From what you saw of them today, how tough a test will that be for the league leaders?

40:26Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, they've got the energy back. They were passing really quickly through midfield, so one-touch stuff. and Danny Welwett scored, which means he's now scored 10 goals in consecutive seasons. The oldest player to do that, I think, in Premier League history. All right. He needs one more to break his goal record for a Premier League season as well. So, yeah, they just, I mean, they only needed to be OK today to win. They'll obviously need to be a lot better than that against Arsenal. But the way, if they get that kind of give and go in midfield, they can break on you really smartly and really quickly.

41:00Matt Davies-Adams: And actually, that's what Chelsea did well in the first half against Arsenal. So it'll be more of the same, I think. They're not as good at corners, which might be a worry. But yeah, I think if they can start quickly and kind of pay with that energy, the fans are wanting to like that team again. It's just been a rotten run recently.

41:18James Richardson: OK, that game coming up on Wednesday, not Thursday. Man City up against Forest. Since promotion in 2022, Forest have visited the Etihad three times, have had three defeats and have scored no goals whatsoever, but there's always next time.

41:34Daniel Storey: Yeah, lost 6-0 in one of those. Before we move on from this game, there's a great stat which they wheeled out on the Skycoms about being James Milner's 900th club career appearance and only the third against Forest, which I thought was incredible. Amazing. Amazing.

41:49James Richardson: More from the Premier League Matchday 28 next, including Man Utd's Sunday afternoon victory over Crystal Palace.

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44:15James Richardson: Top five races heating up. Villa lost away at Wolves. That was on Friday night. We'll come into that game very shortly. Chelsea, we heard about their encounter with Arsenal Sunday afternoon. Liverpool beat West Ham 5-2. Man United on Sunday made it six wins in seven with a 2-1 victory over Crystal Palace. They went third in the table. and watching at Old Trafford was Karl Anker, up to third, Karl.

44:43Daniel Storey: Absolutely ridiculous. If you think about how this looked like it was going to be another historically relevant low point at the end of January when caretaker manager Darren Fletcher said he believed United were capable of qualifying for the Champions League. And that was the first time anyone attached to United this season has said the objective was Champions League football rather than Europa League or Conference League. And at the time it felt unusual. and when the objective was announced, when Michael Carrick was unveiled, it became known that Jason Walcox had told Michael Carrick the objective was qualifying for the Champions League, which again felt a little bit ambitious.

45:16Daniel Storey: And yet here we are, six wins in seven matches. Okay, I would say the last three performances, particularly in the first half, haven't been outstanding. But this team just has an ounce to it that I don't think many people thought they would have throughout this campaign.

45:33James Richardson: And there's no real secret to it. It's just doing the things that people were asking the manager to do for months, if not years.

45:41Daniel Storey: Possibly. Something that stuck out to me in his pre-match press conference on Friday, Michael Carrick described how a lot of the coaching staff worked to narrow it down when talking to the players. And when he talked, I asked him earlier about a little break in play when Ishmael Saar was getting treatment. And he talked to Matthias Kunja and he said he was just giving Kunja little bits of information about when to go, when to stay wide and when to come inside. So it doesn't seem like this coaching staff with Carrick are overloading these players with too much information, which feels like a contrast to what was going on before under Ruben Amren, where they were working to a very bespoke version of a 3-4-3 that also had loads of chameleon shapes that I think two or three times the players were just short-circuit because there were too many things they have to have in their minds.

46:26James Richardson: Kunye, who was involved in possibly the game's turning point when he went down under a hand from Maxence Lacroix, who'd given Palace the lead. Palace were 1-0 up when all this happened. A penalty resulted, which Bruno converted, and Lacroix was sent off. United then got the winner against 10-man Palace with a lovely ball from Fernandes for Benjamin Sesko.

46:51Daniel Storey: Yes, a phenomenal cross from Fernandes and a phenomenal thumping header from Sesko. The interesting thing about this team right now is they are having two or three injuries and absences to their left footers. So, Lassandro Martinez is currently out with a calf injury. Patrick Dorgou injured his hamstring at Arsenal. And then partway through this match, Luke Shaw went off with some sort of ailment. And the left-hand side is shortening and getting more and more narrow. And I think this is leading to the last three first halves United have had have been very stodgy, very slow. Teams understanding that if you clog up the middle, they can't really stretch play wide because Kuno wants to come inside wants to get the ball onto his right foot.

47:31Daniel Storey: So how Carrick alleviates this issue while navigating these injury spells, that will be the big thing now. They're in third. Can they stay there?

47:42James Richardson: Well, that's very much the question. Newcastle await on Wednesday. Magpies have won the last three meetings with Man United at St. James' Park, but then that wasn't this Man United.

47:54Daniel Storey: Indeed. it's a it's a James Bark has been the best hunting ground for United in recent seasons I think this is I mean Eddie Howe's done so well to get this Newcastle team to be so physically aggressive and I'd say the last two or three United squads have been vulnerable to a bunch of burly lads that are willing to throw some elbows but there is now a cynicism to United under Michael Carrick and his coaching staff that I'll be I predict many yellow cards I don't know if I predict many goals from open play

48:23James Richardson: We shall see. We shall see. One last thing, Carl. Lovely to see that banner after recent comments by Sir Jim Ratcliffe. Lovely to see that banner from the United fans.

48:33Daniel Storey: Yes, so a banner was unveiled at the start of the second half saying Manchester United proudly colonised by immigrants and it featured a number of Manchester United's most famous foreign-born players. Speaking as the son of an immigrant who loves Manchester United, I absolutely do not condone the statements Sir Jim Ratcliffe said, more his sentiments. and I don't think his non-apology was very good. So Jim Ratcliffe has a lot of power and ability to make a lot of people in this country very happy if he can just get out of his own way and stop being needlessly mean. And I'd like him to do that, if possible.

49:06James Richardson: Fair enough. Fair enough. Always love hearing a man who's moved to another country complaining about immigrants somewhere else. But then again, of course, we're all immigrants. That's the point, Carl. Anyway, lovely to speak to you as ever with a smile on your face and we'll catch up with you soon.

49:22Matt Davies-Adams: I look forward to it. You take care.

49:27James Richardson: Carl Anker. So a trip to Newcastle for Manchester United. Crystal Palace, as we've heard, are going to be up against Spurs. Liverpool beat West Ham 5-2. This was Saturday, 3 o 'clock. Part of a glut of goals in the Saturday, 3 o 'clock. So I think they were the highest scoring set of 3 o 'clock games. If only we were Jim Ratcliffe, we could have watched him. So true So true Well you could have Got on long As indeed Jim often Does too His team's performances 5-2 anyway Was the scoreline here Hey this is nice A team doing well Scoring from corners Daniel

50:01Matt Davies-Adams: Brings a real tear To the eye A good news story Liverpool changed That piece coach In January I don't think It would be fair On Aaron Briggs Who left To say that Everything has changed Since he left I'm sure Some of what he was Trying to implement Has been It's remarkable

50:17James Richardson: It is extraordinary So before he left, they were the worst I think. No team had scored fewer set-piece goals in the league than Liverpool at the turn of the year. He then leaves and now no team has scored more since the turn of the year. Is that right? Certainly until Arsenal-Chelsea which may have moved the numbers a little bit.

50:38Matt Davies-Adams: So Sky Sports had a stat which was that Liverpool, by the time they scored their third goal, so all three were from corners in the first half, they'd scored seven set-piece goals in a row which is the longest streak in Premier League history since records were collected on that statistic. And yeah, but if you are going to test out some of your corner routines, West Ham are a pretty good team to do it against. They've conceded 15 goals from corners now, which is six more than any other team in the Premier League. So Nuno had sort of solved that a little bit, but the bad habits are coming back. I mean, letting Virgil van Dijk head the ball from six yards out when he's barely jumping seems quite one of the basics.

51:19Matt Davies-Adams: and after the game Thomas Uche said yeah that's weird that's what we worked on all week and I thought yeah which isn't great West Ham were better than 5-2 but if you concede three goals from corners then you aren't going to win. The best moment of their weekend is Willoughby sitting back and watching two dreadful teams directly above them play on Sunday put it that way because they are still exactly where they were and they conceded five and if they sort out the corner issues they've got enough in the final third. Jared Bowen needs to pull his finger out a bit, he's not been great recently it's kind of been one of Somerville or Bowen but never both.

51:52Matt Davies-Adams: When they finally get both going, they've got the best attack of those three teams in the relegation battle at the moment until Spurs get some more players back or Richarlison fully fit.

52:03James Richardson: Up at the other end, this is a big result for Liverpool in that race for top five football. Four victories in a row in all competitions but four in five in the Premier League and their newfound prowess from set pieces, I suppose especially important with the likes of Florian Wurtz not available and that kind of creativity from open play not there.

52:22Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, and it's Cody Gakpo who spoke after the game and kind of said that we've seen what Arsenal have done. We've seen what other teams are doing. This is how we can unlock games. And they do feel like cheap goals at the moment, and that's a compliment. If you can find those goals that you aren't necessarily expecting, they don't take you to knit together attacking, flowing open play moves. If you get those sort of goals, then it does completely shift the narrative because Liverpool weren't very good in the first half. West Ham had the better of the chances. West Ham had the higher XG in the match, even though they lost 5-2.

52:53Matt Davies-Adams: But if you create those high-value chances from set-piece situations, it does give everything a completely different picture. And it's no coincidence that when they weren't very good at the start of the season, Liverpool looked really poor. They are playing better now, but they're just getting cheaper goals. And that's what you need, certainly this season.

53:13James Richardson: But Liverpool have drawn Galatasaray in the Champions League last 16. There are a lot of rematches.

53:21Daniel Storey: There are, yeah, but who's not involved? It's Manchester United. So you've got Pillar obviously got Europa League commitments. Chelsea and Liverpool have got Champions League commitments. United will play a maximum of 40 games. Those other three teams will be pushing 60. I mean, there's absolutely no excuse for Man Utd not to finish third from here.

53:40James Richardson: Liverpool, before their encounter with Galatasaray, this midweek are going to be away at Wolves. That's on Tuesday. The traditional curtain raiser for the FA Cup day.

53:51Daniel Storey: So playing on Friday night in the FA Cup as well.

53:54James Richardson: And they're playing again on Friday. Extraordinary. Extraordinary. This Wolves, perhaps a little bit belatedly, appear to have finally woken up and they are no longer in the running to be the worst Premier League side ever. Who was able to catch their 2-0 victory over Aston Villa on Friday night?

54:09Daniel Storey: I did. I watched it all.

54:11James Richardson: I bet we all did, yeah. Because the beginnings weren't very auspicious, Matt.

54:16Daniel Storey: No, but this is one of my moments of the weekend, actually. I really like the Rob Edwards celebration that got a lot of stick. What else have you got to celebrate? What do you want them to do?

54:25Seb Stafford-Bloor: What do you, you know, they're supposed to just look at their shoes and then, you know. This is one of their rivals that they've beaten. Yeah, they'll be able to put an axe through a season. If you can't enjoy that, then there's not much left in football for you. And Wolves, I think I've heard people say that if Wolves were playing like this six months ago, they'd probably be mid-table. I think that's a little bit overdone. They've clearly improved. And what I say is, given how hopeless their situation is, that's quite some coaching achievement. To pick your players up off the floor, make them competitive and to stop them doing the kind of, oh, well, we'll just see out the season and then we'll work on our futures in July and, you know, we'll stay fit for the World Cup if we're involved.

55:04Seb Stafford-Bloor: And so I think that speaks really highly of his impact there.

55:07Daniel Storey: And that is why his celebration was so fulsome, I think, because he's now going into next season with his reputation intact, if not Wolves. He got there, it took a long time for him to turn it round, but he can legitimately say, well, they were down by the time I got here. And at least I didn't make him the worst team in Premier League history. And that gives them, I mean, it's a long time left to go in this season. They might not win another game, but maybe not a bounce, but it will give the remaining players and the supporters some reason to believe that he would be the person to get them back into the Premier League quickly.

55:40James Richardson: A possibly record-breaking feature of this game was the fact that both goals were scored by players named Gomez. Jao Gomez with the first name, Rodrigo Gomez in the 98th minute. Wolves actually ended the game with four Gomez on the field, which as a commentator, Matt, you must find delightful.

55:56Daniel Storey: Oh, I absolutely hate this. Chelsea at the moment in their under-21s have got Oli Harrison, Harrison McMahon and Harrison Murray-Campbell. And it's very, very difficult. But I did enjoy the two buenos, but it was just annoying that they hadn't got Fecundo on loan from Brighton because then it would have been a bueno not a, in a very real sense. Yeah, that one got away, but otherwise a decent evening for Wolves.

56:18James Richardson: Not a decent evening for Aston Villa, but they've been having a lot of those of late. One win in the last six, Daniel, in all competitions. Says Unai Emery, one month ago, I was dreaming about maybe winning the Premier League. sort of mission isn't it now he continues we're in the average to be in the top five my question

56:39Matt Davies-Adams: is why in simple terms well they stopped scoring absolute screamers from outside the box which doesn't really help and i think that has been a little bit worked out because they don't often play with wingers anymore so you're asking a heck of a lot of them matty cash and luca dean who i don't think should have started over here mattson at the weekend but he did fine they don't offer enough in an attacking sense so Villa are really narrow which is fine when Morgan Rodgers is pinging them in from anywhere or finding space to play little through balls to Wally Watkins whose movement just doesn't look right at the moment in the penalty box that has stopped happening and Villa are quite easy to defend when it stops happening you just crowd the centre of the pitch you let a fullback go as far as you want and then cross it in and hope to head it away because Watkins is not brilliant in the air and yeah they become a bit one-dimensional I think there is also a sense with Villa released their accounts last week and they'd lost, I think, 80 million pre-tax loss again.

57:39Matt Davies-Adams: There is a slight sense of the pressure of needing to get in the Champions League every season to allow this to continue at the pace it is and not slightly fall apart. I think that pressure will inevitably get to them. There will be talk of Unai Emery's position in the summer in terms of bigger clubs probably wanting him. And it just all feels a little bit fragile at the moment.

58:01Daniel Storey: It'll be interesting to see, obviously, they're the only team trying to qualify for the Champions League. You've got two cracks at it with the Europa League as well. I mean, does there come a point where you prioritise one over the other? And we should also make note of the fact that they're without three of their first-choice midfielders, and despite the issues that they've got, if you take Kamara McGinn and Tillam and Delema. Kamara, seriously, good player. They're all big absentees, aren't they?

58:25James Richardson: Good context, Matt. That pillar drew Lille in the last 16 of the Europa League, who, curiously, they haven't played already this season. Not sure how that one slipped through. Very shortly, we'll get on to the other games from this weekend, including the one in Glasgow.

58:45James Richardson: This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Totally Football Show European Edition is out first thing on Tuesday. Seb's in it.

58:55Seb Stafford-Bloor: Exciting. Really excited for that one.

58:57James Richardson: The classic is on the menu. Harry Kane.

59:00Seb Stafford-Bloor: Scoring goals. Quite a good player.

59:01James Richardson: Is that four games in a row he's got a brace in?

59:03Seb Stafford-Bloor: Yeah, it's up to 30 goals for the season in the Bundesliga alone. So that's 12 off the single season record.

59:09James Richardson: But he's one behind, if you were to plot their graphs. He's one behind Robert Lewandowski's record season.

59:14Seb Stafford-Bloor: I think also Lewandowski did the record in, I want to say, 28 or 29 appearances that season. Which is remarkable. But I would also add into that that Lewandowski was playing on a better side. a stronger Bayern Munich team. But yeah, Kane changed the game, scored the first. Really?

59:30James Richardson: So if you were to put the Lewandowski Bayern Munich against this Bayern Munich using cloning technology and that, you think the Lewandowski one would do a number on these?

59:39Seb Stafford-Bloor: Yeah, and I'll tell you why. Because if you look at the very best players, the kind of the pillars within the Lewandowski team, look at Kimmich, look at Neuer, Müller's in there, Lewandowski, of course. These are world-class players in their absolute prime. I think this Bayern Munich team are really, really good. I don't think that you've got any world-class players in their absolute prime, apart from probably Kane. Maybe you could make an argument for Upmecano as well. I think he's become a very, very good central defender. But I would say Diaz, maybe Messiaen are still growing towards his prime.

1:00:13Seb Stafford-Bloor: Yeah, so we're going a bit too euro then. Stop this.

1:00:16James Richardson: Let's leave them hungry for Tuesday. OK, we don't want to, yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, plus James Horncastle and Paul Belouz and all that stuff I nearly ruined that No, no, quite the contrary Let's see, we were Daniel, you went to Celtic v Rangers earlier this season or was it Rangers v Celtic?

1:00:39Matt Davies-Adams: I did indeed It was Rangers v Celtic I went to

1:00:44James Richardson: I think you described it as one of the worst games you'd been to in an extended period of time. Ever. OK. What a shame that you didn't go along to today's encounter, today being Sunday, as we recall, which sounded like a lot more fun, including a spectacular goal from Yusuf Chemiti. Scott Olsen. Can he get his cross in? He can't! Only seems to score goals against Celtic or Hearts, but opened the scoring here with a brilliant bicycle kick. All sorts of things happened here. It was a good result in particular for league leaders' hearts. Were you able to see any of this?

1:01:23Matt Davies-Adams: I saw the lot. It was a brilliant game. It was classic, kind of. Because that match, shall we say, generates extreme opinion as the game is going on, it was the perfect game for that in that Celtic were absolutely rotten in the first half. Rangers were rampant. Chimiti, as you say, a brilliant overhead kick after about seven minutes and then scores again. and under Danny Roll, Rangers have had this slight tendency to tie late in games. He's quite kind of high intensity, you know, pressing and he was really working in the first half and then Celtic gradually just sort of turned the, tilted the pitch in their favour and ended it really strongly and scored late on to get the draw, which is basically is the best result for Hearts.

1:02:09Matt Davies-Adams: They're the ones who have celebrated that the most. Also a shout out to Motherwell in fourth, who on Saturday won 2-0 and they have conceded two goals in their last 16 league games, I think. Which is phenomenal. So they are like seven points off now?

1:02:27James Richardson: So Motherwell are possibly seven behind the hearts, who are unlikely to be caught maybe by them, although they do have a game in hand. They also are only four points, Motherwell, behind Rangers with that game in hand and two points behind Celtic, who've played the same number of fixtures. One defeat in their last 20s so there's a there's a scenario where next season's champions league representatives from the scottish premiership are hearts and motherwell which would be yeah and and a shout out to motherwell

1:02:57Matt Davies-Adams: because they're fan owned as well so that club has been on a heck of a journey over the last 10 to 15 years i went there last year they do incredible work for the community with the fan owned stuff it is a club just absolutely in its peak and if it you know they're not going to win the league i If they finished above one of Celtic or Rangers this season, that would be an absolutely phenomenal achievement. I know Hearts are kind of getting all the focus, understandably, because they're still just about favourites for the title, but fair play to Motherwell. They're having a great time.

1:03:24James Richardson: Excellent. Now, Premier League, Saturday, three o 'clock. Three matches were played at that time. They produced an incredible 19 goals. Seven of them were at Anfield. We heard about those before. Five came at Newcastle. And another seven were at Turf Moor, and possibly should have been more, actually. this was the game which saw Burnley losing 3-4 to visitors Brentford Brentford who took a three goal lead then Burnley pulled three back then Burnley actually took the lead then Voss said no you haven't then Brentford took the lead instead then Burnley still managed to pull off an incredible equaliser and then Voss said no you haven't it was one of the games of the season if you could see it

1:04:04Daniel Storey: and yet it's this far down the running order there'll be Burnley and Brentford supporters screaming into their devices. It was, yeah, it's a shame that it's coloured by the refereeing though, isn't it? The delays as well, like disrupting the flow of emotion

1:04:18Seb Stafford-Bloor: and kind of the back and forth nature of that last 15 minutes. That's kind of my chief issue with...

1:04:24James Richardson: Well, a huge disappointment for Burnley and for the supporters there at Turf Moor, the owner, etc. They had these remarkable comebacks. We saw one against Chelsea, the other one came back from 2-0 down to beat Palace. and looked like they were going to get at least a point at one stage, even maybe a victory that could really reopen their survival chances, but instead go home with a defeat. The VAR is a question. I don't think anyone's in any doubt now that the length of time for a process that was meant to only feature clear and obvious decisions, it's just extraordinary, the notion that you can take six minutes over that.

1:05:02James Richardson: I mean, it feels arrogant at this point for a body to feel you stop what you're doing. We're going to take as long as we like with this because we feel that what we do is more important than what you're doing.

1:05:13Daniel Storey: I think completely undermine our colleague on the pitch who's already made the decision.

1:05:17Seb Stafford-Bloor: I think there's a lot of fear going on as well because referees who then make mistakes with VAR usage, the VAR officials themselves get pilloried if they make an error. And so you have this over diligence, which means that fans watching TV is one thing, but you've got people sat in stadiums in silence, confused, players milling about, no one knows what's happening. And you've got a game which fends 4-3 with a team that was 3-0 down at one point. And you're kind of sort of in monochrome from our perspective, right, because of these delays.

1:05:46James Richardson: So the two Burnley goals that were disallowed, the first one was for Jadon Anthony being offside and the kind of computer-generated image shows his arm offside. and then what would have been the equaliser is because after six minutes they decided that... Who was it? Actually Varn.

1:06:06Daniel Storey: Yeah, your old pal. Almost identical to Evan Nielsen's goal for Bournemouth against Sunderland, I thought.

1:06:13James Richardson: It's a shame, as you say, that Daniel, such a terrifically entertaining game that should be leaving such a bitter taste.

1:06:19Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, I mean, when we want more value for money because of raising ticket prices, the whole point wasn't that you raise ticket prices but have games 110 minutes long. That wasn't the exact way we wanted that to happen. I do think both decisions were right. I don't know if that matters in terms of the delays. Yeah, I think it hit his arm and I think his shoulder was offside. So I think that's what Scott Parker was saying. He was like, it's one thing to accept the decisions and find if it's handball, it's handball. It's the fact that it completely undercuts the momentum of the game and the experience of going to watch football when you're sat there doing nothing for five minutes.

1:06:53Matt Davies-Adams: Although there are times when Forrest have played this season where I'd have been more than happy to just have five minutes of chatter.

1:06:58Seb Stafford-Bloor: I hear you. So the new IFAB recommendations are going to mean that we're going to start looking at corners and yellow cards or second yellow cards leading to red cards. Are there many corners in football now? It's going to mean the same thing, isn't it, Jimbo? You're going to have another thing which we examine under the microscope and it's going to be more delays and it's going to be more time for people like me to moan and complain and run podcasts. us. Good chance to stick an ad break in there, isn't it? We're just going to double check that corner. With my tinfoil hat on. Let's examine the corner decision and here's that decision brought to you by Specsavers.

1:07:35Seb Stafford-Bloor: That would be a doubling... Is that my Oppenheimer moment? Something's going to destroy the world.

1:07:44James Richardson: There you go. Bournemouth taking on Brentford this coming midweek. The The Bs have now won the last five meetings with Bournemouth in all competitions. Bournemouth had a 1-1 draw with Sunderland Saturday lunchtime and haven't lost in the league actually since they sold Antoine Semenya, which is, I think, an unexpected consequence. Semenya, who's currently doing wonders and, of course, scored the winning goal for Man City away at Leeds on Saturday afternoon. Daniel, unless you particularly wanted to say something about Bournemouth, Sandler and I was just going to jump straight on to the one game remaining, as far as I can work out, which is Newcastle Everton.

1:08:27James Richardson: We talked about Arsenal-Chelsea as a tale of two keepers. This was very much a similar narrative.

1:08:33Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, poor Nick Pope, who has this really weird flaw in his game. He sort of makes shots look really good. He makes half chances into whole chances sometimes when he's not in form. And then when you've got Jordan Pickford producing mini miracles at the other end and it's fair to say flexing in celebration towards a ground where he is not wholly liked. I mean, it gets bad to worse from Newcastle, it really does. They're closer to the bottom three than the top five now, which given what happened last season and their pre-season expectations and the spend over the summer, Eddie Howe sort of repeatedly saying it's just sort of his attitude and application and it'll come.

1:09:12Matt Davies-Adams: And all the time they keep getting worse. But again, Everton are, we said it a couple of weeks ago when they last won away, but Everton are one of the best away teams in the Premier League this season. Only Arsenal have got more away points than them. It's a phenomenal effort from David Moyes. It's going slightly under the radar because they're not brilliant at home and so there are still some kind of muted reactions at the Hill Dickinson but they're phenomenal away from home. They just punish you every mistake you make. So Pope makes a mistake. Gordon loses the ball in his own half and doesn't track.

1:09:44Matt Davies-Adams: They're immediately, they're on you and they score. and the strikers who were really struggling in early season both scored tieno barry and beto both got goals so yeah everything's coming up david moyes right uh tieno barry's goal a

1:09:58James Richardson: particularly delicious one in off his backside no his replays showed why if it's not too silly a question why are they able to be so effective so punishing on the road but not at the hill dickinson

1:10:10Matt Davies-Adams: I think there's probably a new stadium thing where they are

1:10:16James Richardson: But they're in a new stadium every week, surely, when they're on the road

1:10:20Matt Davies-Adams: Well, they're more comfortable playing back foot, surprising, counter-attacking football away from home I think the home fans would like to see a bit more front foot football But these things can be psychological as well If you win three away games in a row and you lose three at home You're much more likely to win your next away game than home advantage goes out the window So I think it's just an accumulated momentum.

1:10:41Seb Stafford-Bloor: Can I have a go at some of the things that are being said about Nick Fultimati at Newcastle? Please do. Can I have a little rant? What's being said about him, first of all? Well, he's been criticised in very, very severe terms. Really? Yeah, he hasn't played particularly well, and that's entirely fair. I think to say some of the things that have been said about him is a really poor way to treat a young guy who's travelled a very long distance in a very short space of time, went from being a free transfer of Werder Bremen to being one of the most expensive, or is he the most expensive player in Newcastle's history within the space of 12 months?

1:11:17Seb Stafford-Bloor: And yes, he's struggled, but he's also, he's had to adjust to a new league, he's adjusted to a new country, he's learning a new language, living in a new part of the world. And we know all of these things. And you get guys who have never left England or never played anywhere else other than England sort of commenting on that adjustment and kind of throwing them under the bus rather than showing a little bit of compassion. And yes, I'm a little bit defensive of guys who move over from the Bundesliga to England, but then that's because I understand the magnitude of the journey and the adjustment that has to go into that.

1:11:50Seb Stafford-Bloor: And you're dealing with a person. Dealing with a person, right? There's still a bit of room in the game for compassion somewhere, not to kind of use somebody as a way of garnering attention.

1:12:03James Richardson: No, you're so right. and not just applicable to players who come over from the Bundesliga, of course. I wasn't aware of the vehemence of the criticism towards Vultimata, but I hope he's doing fine. It's just a bit unkind. Let's try and be kind. That's what we should be as a podcast. I think so. I think so. There you go. Newcastle have drawn Barcelona. Well, they made them already this season and got beaten.

1:12:27Daniel Storey: I wonder what the bar is for Eddie Howe to kind of fend off any questions about his future over the summer. it's going to be very difficult to get past Barcelona but they need to go deeper than they have done already in the Champions League and what maybe win the FA Cup or reach the final of that because their league position is going to be miles down on where it should be as Daniel said I mean they're 13th aren't they? Everybody from 13th to 19th this weekend lost and they're part of that obviously not in any relegation strife but Real also runs in terms of the Premier League this season which is not where they anticipated being I'm sure.

1:13:02Daniel Storey: So yeah, interesting to see how much longer he retains the faith, maybe not of the higher-ups, but of the supporters. There was that Tifo of him last week for the Champions League game, right? And clearly, Newcastle fans are indebted to him and grateful for the fact that he won them a trophy, which they hadn't done for ages, but massive underperformance in the Premier League. And when that starts to really impact the home form, I always think that's when a manager's in trouble, particularly with a fan base as passionate as they are up there in the North East.

1:13:29James Richardson: Indeed so. Indeed so. Well, there you go. problems for Newcastle and Eddie Howe well done to Everton Tuesday night they'll be back at home with all that that implies as they take on the newly spunky Burnley of Scott Parker on Wednesday morning we'll have a special totally football show reviewing what happens in those Tuesday night games then Thursday morning of course we'll be doing the Wednesday ones and looking ahead to the weekend from Friday it's FA Cup all over again anything you want to add in your spooky attic as tricky jabs defines it Daniel is it spooky no no no

1:14:08Matt Davies-Adams: it's lovely but I just wanted to give a shout out to Leeds assistant manager Eddie Reamer for over the last couple of weeks we've had managers and I mean Jose Mourinho failing to look beyond the badge when asked about things more serious in football but Eddie Reamer was asked about the Ramadan break in the game at Ellen Road being booed by supporters. And rather than saying, you know, I don't know, I didn't hear any of it, he said, it's disappointing. We need to be better than that, basically. So it was a lot easier for Guardiola to do it. And his words will probably resonate more because he's Pep Guardiola.

1:14:44But good on Leeds United's assistant manager

1:14:47Matt Davies-Adams: for not just sort of bowing out and ignoring the question.

1:14:51James Richardson: Excellent. And many thanks for bringing that up. Daniel, we will be speaking to you, I hope, next week in the course of our FA Cup roundup. Have a super time in between now and then. Matt, thank you so much for coming in. Pleasure. And we look forward to joining up with you again soon. Seb, you're back with us as early as Monday for Tuesday morning's European football show, which we've not mentioned enough in today's broadcast, but it will be there for you Tuesday morning. Many thanks to Jake and producer Charlie in the booth. And to everyone who sent in messages and followed us on the YouTube.

1:15:27James Richardson: here every Sunday if you like, listener, and all our podcast listeners too. Anyway, we're back soon, often and frequently throughout the week. Hope you join us soon for now from all of us here. It's goodbye.

1:15:40Daniel Storey: You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:16:06Daniel Storey: The Athletic FC

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