Bayern no longer perfect, Conte being Conte - and ten Hag back to Ajax?!

0:00The Athletic FC

0:10Totally for Boucho European edition Today Dears nuts In Berlin France Why a rival for PSG Just might be a long shot Italy Where the Bolognese look good But the Juric is out As the coaching casualties continue Netherlands Where there's the axe at Ajax And we check in with RVP Yeah you know me And Spain The return of Lewandowski and better finishing from Barca's Builders too. It's all coming up in this Totally Forbouche show.

0:44Monday the 10th of November. Hi, listener. It's your Euro show. I know, me too. We've got James Horncastle here. Hello. Also, Julian Laurence. Bonjour. Seb's on the big screen. Seb Stafford-Blo. Hello, Seb. Hello, Jimbo. yeah where's Paul Ballouse where is Paul Ballouse Anandos Anandos he's looking for Anandos in Spain it's a Spanish name as well there must be somewhere Paul Paul listen he's in Vigo yes and he he can't be with us for now at least he will be joining us later because he is lunching lunching he has not disclosed where I think we know I think we know we know where everybody else had their lunch Seb I'm lunched yeah good okay have you got a moment of the week for us I sure do because I was at the Outer Forster Eye on Saturday afternoon to watch Luis Diaz do what Luis Diaz did.

1:40And I was sat right behind it. The goal from a ludicrous angle. Sliding in. The controller through ball that was a little bit over hit. so back it up back it up first of all he does that little kind of drag back to confuse two defenders and then does the one two with stanisic stanisic overhits the return ball which means that diaz has to go sliding in just to keep it from going out of play but slides back to his feet with one motion with his next touch he puts it past the defender and with the next touch immediately produces that incredible shot. The XG of 0.03. There's only been one goal scored anywhere in the top five divisions this season in Europe with a lower XG than that, or from a tighter angle at least.

2:37Yeah. It was that Noddington Forest one that went straight in from the corner that actually was probably a cross anyway. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Because it is mad, the angle that he's at. I mean, he's on the goal line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. Although we see, yeah, no, I hear you. ah Jules is not impressed no no no no it's an amazing goal it's an amazing goal but you see Zaire Emery's goal yesterday last night it's not the same tight angle but it's a similar coming from the side like this and hitting it under the crossbar in the roof of the net you said that in English yeah so it's amazing but yeah yeah it's that's all you can do really sorry Seb I interrupted you no I think there's a couple of things that TV didn't do justice to here which is the first one is his first touch when he slides in to stop it going over the goal line.

3:24He takes the second touch really before he regains his feet. And it's so quick and it's so precise that you can't really fault any of the defensive players in it, Yannick Haber or Fredrik Reneau and goal. And it's just perfect. And you have that moment where whenever in a way goal scored in a home stadium, you have that split second of silence, but it was just, could have heard a penny drop because it was just, it was spectacular. It was so original as well. It's not even just the technique, the angle, the force of the shot it was everything combined and just the fact that I haven't actually seen that before that sort of combination of skills and craft to score a goal it was fantastic, brilliant, brilliant goal It certainly was, thank you so much Seb Jules, have you got a moment of the week to rival that?

4:07Yeah, so the one I had originally was, did you see the Widad Casablanca Ultras in Paris on Friday night? It's their 20th anniversary and they had this incredible, I need to show you You need to have a look now. These like flares and choreography by the Eiffel Tower along the Seine, which was so incredible that a lot of people thought this is AI generated. They can't have put that together on a Friday night in Paris. And yet they did. It's just mind blowing how great it was. So I was going to go for that. Wow. I'm seeing it now. It looks incredible. The drone shots from above. Yeah. What were they doing in Paris then?

4:46so it was just there so a lot of them lived there and it's the 20th anniversary of the creation of that ultra group persona and obviously we did at Casablanca a huge club in Morocco with a massive fan base as we saw in the club world cup in the US where they they had quite a great support there so they thought let's do it in Paris with the Eiffel Tower in the background etc but yeah it's amazing so I was not sure if you'd be happy with this one but if you're happy then that's it I'm very happy you have to go to a Moroccan club to have a moment of the week understandable understandable in the euro show yes yeah james um well saturday james in syria yeah did it happen two goals in four games three nils in a row including the turin derby yeah i mean there have been 17 nil nils in syria out this season right it's such a well-balanced lead it's not me it's a well-balanced lead super competitive yeah great goalkeepers for sure yeah yeah i mean basically not yeah no totally random goalkeepers as well like the the one in the turin derby who got the man of the match award paliari who's a standing goalkeeper for torino made a couple of saves that's all he had to make to be fair the calorie fellow the calorie fellow caprile who will be in the national team squad for these qualifiers, but also what Jules was saying, Pessina, the 17-year-old for Bologna, and this was one, actually this was the heartwarming moment of the weekend, because full-time of Bologna's win over the champions Napoli, in which he keeps a clean sheet, but only has one save to make.

6:28He's so overcome with emotion, there must have been so much tension going into that game, that the Bologna players pick him up, put him on their shoulders, and you see him sort of crying, He's delighted. And all the coaching staff are thrilled for him as well. So, yeah, Jules has nudged me there. I'm going to say Pessina's tits. Pessina. Oh, I love him. Pessina, 17 years of age. Think of other great Italy keepers who started their career in the city at 17. But a former European champion with Italy's under-17s, a couple of, what, 2024 that would have been. Yeah, they've won a couple of European championships at youth level at under-17, under-19 level.

7:03I think he was part of the team that Michael Coyote was. Well, Coyote scored the only goal in the final against Portugal. So, yeah, Pessina. Bravissimo. He was on the bench. He came on eight minutes in. So he wasn't expecting this to be his big day. Yeah, excellent. We would go to pole for his moment of the week, but he's still having it, frankly. So we'll park the Lando's Liga chat for now. And Jules, let's begin with some French football. Okay. Come on. Are you sure? Yeah, after this. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Couldn't get that break finished quickly enough.

7:49Get back into that Ligue 1 chat where it's Paris Centre man top of the table, Jules. Yes, it is somehow. I just checked, they're top of the table. Two points clear of two teams by the name of Marseille and Lens. Yeah. now Marseille we've been hearing a lot about yeah off to their best start in well second best points tally at this stage of a Ligue 1 season in the last 10 years scoring the most goals that they've scored at this point in the season for about half a century but they'll be very happy with that yeah what about Lens though and your friend Stonewise Stonewise Pierre Sash doing an incredible job I think this is the second best start of a season ever for Lens or something like that because we'll still presumably had the previous best when he got them into the Champions League, is that right?

8:35No, that was Frank Hayes. Yeah, two years ago. So this is the second or third best, including that season. And I think the other one is the season where they won the title in the 90s. Amazing. We knew that Piazzaj was a good coach from Wally Duda Lyon, the way he saved them and then took them into Europe. But what's even more remarkable in this kind of run of form, they smashed Monaco 4-1 away in Monaco, albeit with 11 men against 10 for the whole second half because Flo Balogun got sent off quite stupidly just before the break, is that they had spent too much money before. So they have been very much lately on like cost-cutting operations in a way.

9:19Joseph Fugour-Lyon, the owner, and all the people with him. So sold their best players, basically. Cut some of the wages of big earners and things like that. so to see them in that position after 11 games now is really incredible so they're doing a great job their top scorer Odson Edouard out of Palace out of Palace where things never really worked out for him Paris Bonne Brede obviously and former like prodigy really because he was so good when he was 16, 17 remember he was the top goal scorer in the under 17 Euros where France won it was incredible and then it took a long time for him I think to get to the level that we all expected him to get and he's not even there yet.

9:59Wow. Also a bit of a prodigy is Lens' set-piece coach in all of Europe's top five leagues. Only Arsenal have scored more times from corners than Lens. Yeah, another two or three. I mean, when Florian Thauvin takes your corners or wide free kicks, he helps because the deliveries are usually very good. But Said scored for that. The Otton-Edouard goal is the second phase of a corner again, which counts in the tally of goals scored on set-pieces, even if it's not direct. so yeah they've been very good defensively the back three works well they signed well young players that are obviously cheaper than signing I don't know Brice Samba or Tovan is a bit of an exception at his age so they've built this squad well the depth might be a problem but again they have only one game per week right and only one domestic cup right obviously so if it stays like this and everybody stays fit especially Tovan and Edouard I think they can go fine they've got good young players Ryan Fofana is a very promising number nine they have two who's only 18 so it's looking really good.

10:58Problems though for Monaco, they did get that result away at Bodo Glimp last week in Europe. But either side defeats. Last weekend was Paris FC and this time Lens. So yeah, work for Pogba to do. That's right. Paul Pogba's update, maybe after the international break, I'm just saying. Really? Which international break is that, Jules? That's the one, this one. The one for the World Cup? No, the one with Caroline Lyon so in two weeks James could finally see him play again I'm betting he will I'm confident it's going to happen Marseille with 3-0 winners against Brest yeah the great line but the Zerbi just we don't need to go into the game it was too easy for them but somebody said to the Zerbi after the game what's going to happen nice international break he said I'm going to take my car so go from the stadium to the training run where the cars are parked and then I drive to Italy from Marseille with my cigarettes and my music in the car on my own in my own kind of thoughts he said and I'll have a few days of rest with the family then somebody said that November is the month against tobacco or against cigarettes as if he can't catch a break the poor reporter's he said you'll forgive me for this time then so I can imagine him in his car whatever car he drives Vasco Rossi on he's a big Vasco fan oh nice he goes to watch Vasco with his daughter va bene anche se non te conviene va bene as he maybe says to the anti-tobacco league in France.

12:25Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It would be fitted. A bene cousine. Voice. You can see him, you can imagine him in the car smoking while singing out loud I was from a Zotti. 100%. If you're anywhere near, what sort of route is it that goes across the bottom? So the motorway, I guess, all the way to Nice and then you cross over, I guess. If you're anywhere, you might look out your window. Yeah. That's Roberto. That's Roberto. Do you know who else is looking smoking in Marseille? Neil Mopé. He looks great. He's grown his hair and he's got a bit of facial furniture as well. You know where he's grown his hair and got facial...

12:59Why? Because he's not been playing. Yeah. What was the reason that he was forced out of the team and why is he being allowed back in now? What's happening? They wanted him out of the club because he earns quite a lot of money and also there was just no option for him to play really. Aubameyang plays as a number nine. You've got Robinho Vaz, Guiri who's injured now, but James Israel who will be either first choice or second shot with Aubameyang Vas is a wonderful young player from Paris which pains me to say plays for Marseille but anyway everybody does what he wants so there's no room for Mopé and they tried to get him out in the summer Mehdi Benatia and now Federico Balzaretti who's just become Benatia's assistant as the sporting director's assistant I was wondering why he was in the stands yes that's why lovely lovely guy Federico who speaks French really well because his wife is a prima ballerina exactly from paris the opera of paris yeah well let's talk about the teams in paris jules first of all why were you so excited about paris fc taking on rance i was because this was the i mean you two are going to find a much better word than me but i guess the luxurico or what can i don't know like a derby between the two a cashiko would be one but that's been used by was that who was that mac cashiko it would be like i don't know city against phg yeah something like that yeah it's basically the for the first time yeah the arnaud family who own uh paris fc against the pinot family who owns rennes so the arnaud family is worth 158 billion euros okay the pinot family only 52 billion euros right uh but it's vritton against gucci if you want it's dior against balanciaga loeve against saint laurent tiffany against boucheron they do all sound like players to be fair chateau dikem against chateau latour if you like your red wine yes um we've gauche against Rive droite.

14:50Yes. So this one, people struggle to understand, which I understand. I ran out of words on X to say it. Basically, it's very simple. Obviously, the Seine, yeah, through Paris. One side is the Rive droite, one side is the Rive gauche. One has his offices on the Rive droite. Oh, I see. And two, but this rivalry is really interesting outside of football. For example, and it's a bit like small willy against big willy, right? But Notre Dame, Notre Dame, listen to me. Notre Dame Cathedral caught fire, right? Yes. The next day, the Pino family gives 100 million euros to the fund to rebuild it already.

15:29Right. The same day, later on that day, the Arnau family gives 200 million euros to the Notre Dame Cathedral. So things like that. And against the runoff player, Rennes won that game. Not really sure how, but it's the second win in a row. Habib Bey has a bit more time now to work on things, but Paris FC really frustrated because they should have won that game those brands that these two families control why don't the teams turn out in that gear you know like Louis Vuitton Gucci could they not do kits in that it's a good question because Emporio Armani obviously do the kits for Napoli I don't know so for now it was funny because Dior are the official that would be amazing suits of PSG for example so Dior I don't know how you say Abiyé but like provide the clothes for the PSG players when they travel and Vuitton do the same with Real Madrid for example men and women so they could do the same for Paris FC I guess I'm talking about the kit yeah yeah no but maybe one day they might that would be amazing alright have we got time to talk about PSG Jules if you want to they're top of the table what a game Sunday night against Lyon some great goals not least that astonishingly audacious lob from uh ainsley maitland nars incredible yeah really good run although he should be offside but elias was he offside no zabani fell asleep oh he was covering him but he should have it's a it's an easy run to pick and to let him run and be offside but he wasn't and then chevalier is really high because that's what he's been asked to do so he's nowhere and it's a lovely first time lob from 25 yards from maitland knights who've been struggling in the game up to that points but that's 2-2 and you think okay it's another draw for PSG, more points dropped and then Joe Neves of all people on a Kangenly corner in the last second of the game with a header to win it.

17:33I was watching this on Italian TV last night and they were talking about how PSG is scoring more and more set plays yeah so essentially are they like becoming Premier League contagion is this it we're just I mean you just mentioned Lons yeah Lons and the corners PSG finding even the miniature Jaunevers in the box who's got great timing for headers yeah we've seen him scoring great goals like that but yeah I don't know I don't know but to be fair they were poor PSG yeah I know there's a lot of injuries a lot of people who are not well there's another injury now well since the Champions League clash with Bayern Munich, which left, of course, PSG wounded in the spirit as much as physically.

18:20But Hakimi is out for how long, do you think? Between six and eight weeks. So he's hoping that he could come back for AFCON, which starts in December. I think PSG, not that they say it, but I'm really hoping that he's not back for AFCON and he's not going to play at AFCON. But it's in Morocco. they are the best team in Africa this is a huge opportunity for them to win the whole thing I think it would be sad for Hashtag Fakimi not to be there so let's see Nuno Mendes is six weeks out Dembele probably around the same thing Duwe is still out so yeah without them it's more difficult Yeah but you're still two points clear at the top of the table Yeah true somehow I was just curious as to the reaction in France to that Bayern game Jules because yeah Diaz's red card changes the match it makes it much closer than it looked like it was going to be but that PSG defensive line with and without the ball looks so vulnerable.

19:12Is it just one of those things where people ignore it until March and then hope that it gets better? Is there actually a response to it? No, no, no, no. I think people recognise the superiority of Bayern in that first half. Like Luis Enrique also said, when you give them some goals, like the two goals they scored, to lose the ball in those areas is just not acceptable. And Bayern could have scored more goals on mistakes and non-mistakes by PSG too. So I think it was a bit of a wake-up call because I don't think they needed that defeat. But it felt very much in Paris, you were not competing at the same level in the sense that there was too many people missing or too many things missing in this PSG team right now to be able to compete with the best team in the world.

19:55That was Bayern, I guess, until the Union Berlin game. And they were the better team by far in that first half. And maybe with a bit of luck, PSG would have snatched a draw, but that probably would not even have been fair. Fair enough. Let's talk actually next up about Bayern and their Bundesliga chums. Many thanks, Jules. Thank you. And Seb, you're up next.

20:22This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Seb, Bundesliga, you were off watching Union Berlin against FC Bayern. We talked about Luis Diaz's goal. That was the first of two Bayern equalisers. How good were Union Berlin for Bayern to need that late, late, late point-saving goal from Harry Kane? Yeah, they're very, very good. Played a lot of intensity, a lot of energy. Defended really astutely, actually.

20:58And Luis Diaz's goal was really the first proper chance that Bayern created in that half. that was 35 minutes into the game. It felt a little bit like, I mean, Vincent Kompany made one change from the PSG game. Leon Goretzka came in for Alex Pavlovich and that showed because Bayern did look heavy-legged. They did look very pre-international breaky and Union capitalized and that's one of those places where Bayern found this out last year too where they drew 1-1. The Alteforster Eye, when that crowd gets up, it's really, really awkward and you don't really want to be behind there. And yeah, I think it's one of those also Jimbo where If you take the energy deficit out of it, the game looks a little bit different, but certainly Bayern's precision was missing.

21:39The connections between their attacking players, which has been the root of that long winning sequence this season, that wasn't quite there either. And at times when Bayern have had little lapses in games, they've been able to depend upon or spark from a catalyst, be it Alise, be it Kane, be it Diaz. They're all a little bit off. A little bit off. And add in a kind of a bad day for Manuel Neuer, who let the first goal fall underneath him. It was a very, very sort of scrappy set-piece goal, as was the second. Kind of hit the back of Harry Kane's head and fell fortuitously. Yeah, just a bad day for Bayern.

22:15But it was one of those. I think it's kind of like, there's an ongoing joke in Germany that any time Bayern drop points and somebody is given the chance to capitalise, invariably no one does. AB Leipzig lost. British Dortmund conceded a nice seventh-minute equaliser. And so it was. So they're kind of their lead for the international break, six points player anyway. OK, well, the first time they drop points this season or indeed don't win in any competition, but they actually extend their lead in the Bundesliga all the same, thanks to Leipzig's defeat. And as you say, that 1-1 draw for Dortmund at Hamburg.

22:50Leverkusen climbed to fifth with that 6-0 win over Heidenheim. Was that as much fun as it sounds? Not for Heidenheim, no. They were 5-0 down at half-time. And this is really the season where I think the wage bill issue for Heidenheim is showing. I mean, when they came into the Bundesliga, they were a minnow. And yeah, Frank Schmidt has done a wonderful job to keep them up. But as season has gone by, they've been picked off a little bit. Obviously, Tim Kleindienst and Nick Espeche were sold off the first season. They went into the Conference League. They had the challenge of playing twice a week as a result with a squad that's not really built to do that.

23:26and a playing budget which is nowhere near, even teams like Freiburg, Wolfsburg, even Bochum last season who are relegated. So they're playing at a level they shouldn't be at and it was, I mean, Lovie Kuznick exposed them. There's some very, very ugly moments and it's Pocky's performance. It was absolutely terrific. And Ibrahim Maza, who if people don't know him, he was playing for her to BSC last season. He was a subject of a lot of Premier League interest. He's kind of a, somewhere between a number eight and a number 10, really good creative player. good with his feet, nice passing range. He'll be going to AFCON with Algeria, so he's someone to watch, but a really, really promising player.

24:03And this was by far his best performance since joining Leverkusen in the summer. And that's the thing with Leverkusen. I think we talked last week about what the Ten Hag sacking meant and how it kind of gave Kasper Holmund and the whole club the chance to have a proper reset. And that's what it's done. It's shifted the focus back onto some of these young players who over the summer were signed really with the next two or three seasons in mind rather than necessarily this one. But given that there's going to be no title challenge and the Champions League is not a realistic proposition for them.

24:34I mean, if they make it through the league phase, that will be a success. You take the small gains and you take little moments like Poku's performance. Kofane, he plays up front as well. Really, really good player. Mazza is starting to get more and more minutes. And it's an exciting time. It's not what it was a few years ago under Javi Alonso, but this was by far and away their best collected performance of the season and you need it as well because it just allows Leverkusen to acquire a little bit of momentum which we haven't really had so far. It's been a little bit, yeah, it's been a bit shuffly through the Bundesliga.

25:07Bad defence, difficulties, bad results in the Champions League, obviously big one against PSG but this was a good moment for them. Okay, another side with a bit of momentum, Mönchengladbach, one Borussia that was climbing this weekend they they had their what second win in a row no third third because they won in the third win in a row now yeah yeah yeah and this was in their biggest fixture the rhein derby yeah have you seen the tifos from this game if you haven't looked them up really really lovely what did they do so just the the nord curve have this enormous tifo celebrating moments from club history and down in the guest block down the um how did they do those look it up don't let me describe them because i'll do it in injustice look them up and um you should be able to if you go onto um brisky image dad back's official instagram you should be able to see video of it rather than just pictures so really really lovely um but down the other end in the guest block brilliant pirate display from climb fans and just the wonderful atmosphere it's nice it's kind of in an eerie green yeah very cool in the club green but really beautiful really well done and fabulously choreographed of course but the game was a little bit of a letdown actually and and everybody had a little bit of a moan about the refereeing and the interventions from var which did kind of there were a lot of uefa penalties in this game which kind of ruined it as a spectacle but um and even polanski who's the interim gladback head coach who's still trying to to win the job for real um full time he said afterwards i'm no fan of this i think also like when you have the sort of the big pauses in play when you wait for var decisions to be made when it occurs in an atmosphere feel like that where you just leave people sitting there watching a referee looking in a monitor for minutes on end it kills the environment so a little bit disappointing but Gladbach needed this point also because Mainz lost over the weekend we've covered Heidenheim some powerly lost their seventh game in a row little bit of trouble for Alex Blessing there I think he probably will make it through the international break but yeah it needs to get better quickly I think for him too Okay.

27:09And one man who hasn't is Paul Simonis at Wolfsburg, axed. So the issue there is I don't think Simonis' sacking is particularly contentious. One, just two of his first 10 Bundesliga games and Wolfsburg simply haven't been good enough. If you watch the 93rd minute goal that they conceded to Werder Bremen on Friday night, you see that the standard defending there is nowhere near where it needs to be. It's just appalling. but at the same time I think given that since 2024 Simones is the third coach to be sacked Niko Kovac got sacked Ralf Hasenhutl got sacked and now he's the third within the space of 18 months and things are being pointed at Peter Christensen who is the sporting director of Wolfsburg because for that reason obviously performance is not good enough and there are some big imbalances in that squad particularly in defense he's also got six Danish players so christiansen is a is danish and so sure he has a knowledge of a local market and it makes sense to exploit that but it's also attracted a little bit of negative attention in terms of are there cliques in the dressing room is this healthy for the club because if you look at the performance and you look at the spirit on the pitch or the lack of it there's clearly something wrong emotionally the club and it's tricky because volsburg exists in a very very difficult position because it's not a club which attracts a lot of attention generally they attract around 23 000 fans um for home games and volsburg becomes this place where you go there to get out of there and to get a move somewhere else and so motivation inspiration things like intangibles are passion all that stuff that's always deemed to be in short supply and so um how do you cure that well at the moment they're not doing it well they're currently lying 14th only one point above the relegation playoff position Crikey.

28:51We'll see if the new man in has a positive impact on that. The under-19s head coach has taken temporary charge while they wait to make a proper decision. Not sure he's going to be given the chance to get the job full-time. I just think he's a placeholder for the moment. He's not Danish. He's not Danish, so he does not fit the bill. But it's actually, I mean, relatively speaking, it's not a disaster for Wolfsburg because this seems to be quite a weak Bundesliga. You don't have to do much to get yourself out of trouble. at the moment because there's not a lot of strength in those kind of positions between 8th and 14th so it wouldn't take a lot to get things right and listen there's a lot of talent there I mean Christian Eriksen even this stage of his career is certainly good enough to be a factor in the Bundesliga Lovren Meyer is still there Patrick Wimmer Jonas Wint is out of favor but a pretty decent nine Mohamed Amora the Algerian forward is absolutely brilliant I can't believe he's actually still in Wolfsburg he's probably a little bit too talented to be there but probably won't be there for that much longer.

29:50But there's ability, so it shouldn't be too hard to harness it and move up the table. All right, let's see. For now, let's leave the Bundesliga there. Next up, let's hop across the border and get some top Dutch content with our pal Mikel Jongsma.

30:18Rongsma. Yay! Woo! Mikael, welcome back to the show. Thank you, James. So nice to have you with us, particularly on a week like this when there's been so many talking points in the world of Dutch football. Ajax, three-time European champions, currently lying bottom of the Champions League and now sacking Johnny Heitinger. Is it true that Ten Hag's coming back? There's also the rise of Robin van Persie at Feyenoord. And holy cow, with the international break on the way, that Netherlands team looks ridiculously stacked. Let's start, though, with Ajax. Ajax sacking Johnny Heitiger last Thursday after that latest defeat in the Champions League.

30:58How have they got to such a nadir so quickly? Well, a few weeks ago, the writing was basically on the wall when they brought in an assistant called Grimm. So the Grimm Reaper was literally on his way in this case. But yeah, I mean, John Heidink had took over from a very much overperforming Francesco Varioli. I think people are always underestimating what a challenge in club Ajax is because you have to win and you have to win in the right way. And Varioli did a good job at winning, but it was not in the right way. And I would almost say that John Heidink had taken over at Ajax. He was basically set up to fail.

31:36Things got off to a rocky start when he couldn't get his staff in order. They couldn't get the squad in order. They were very late with a few big sales, with Brian Robby being a standout there and bringing people in as well. And they truly never looked anything like the sight that they were last season. And it's very much reflected in how the teams performed in the Champions League as well, because they totally do not look up for it. And even in the Eredivisie, they are fourth in the table, which seems fine. But when you look at the underlying numbers, they're more close to eighth. the eighth best team in the country, that's totally unacceptable.

32:13So this second was a long time comment, but the problem is that Ajax as a club has run out of ideas for quite a while. And when you run out of ideas, you tend to look towards nostalgia, which brings you back to Erik ten Haag, who already was a big candidate last summer, but he had better jobs lined up. And the funny thing is that another, obviously again, a bald manager because that's the safe space. Paul Simonis was a very serious candidate as well. And he has been sacked this weekend too. So two of the main candidates from last summer are available again, which is not very inspiring because they are free for a reason.

32:58Mikhail, why would they want Eric Ten Hag back? Ajax are quite scared of getting a manager in from outside of the country, outside of Amsterdam even, because the club has such a peculiar state. You really have to understand the size of the task that you're taking on and understand all the politics that are involved. And I think to an extent, it's quite comparable to the situation at Manchester United, where you have such a particular demand for a manager. And Eriton Haag has been through that process already. When he joined Ajax, he was not the chosen one that everyone was falling in love with.

33:37He had to earn his respect there, and he very much did. So I think for now, he seems like the safe choice, the manager that understands the club, understands the size of the task, has a great rapport with the fans. He's very much respected still. And I think that one other problem is who else is willing to take on this task? Because it's very much a poison chalice. And I think the Farioli stint last season kind of opened the door for a manager. But to go into a club with so much politics, such a weird dynamic, someone that doesn't speak the language, doesn't have that rapport with the fans, it's just very difficult.

34:19And it's quite funny because Frank de Boer, who also won quite a few titles there as a manager, basically said, like, well, I'm not looking to become a manager, but also something like that at this point just doesn't appeal to me because the task of being successful with Ajax is great, but the task of dealing with very much an unsuccessful Ajax is probably one of the worst jobs in football. All right, Michael, let's talk about Feyenoord, though, because whilst things have been going wrong at Ajax, Robin van Persie's been having a brilliant time there with the Rotterdam side. Yeah, it almost feels like a sliding doors thing, doesn't it, when one former Dutch international goes to Ajax and completely ruins it, and Van Persie is really rocking it up at Finlay.

35:06That's quite funny because when he made his managerial debut at Heerenveen, he was quite rigid in the way he thought about football, and he seems to be quite a quick learner. He has that kind of golden boy aura around him. It's still Robin Van Persie, the former Premier League champion and world footballer, and he has that, he uses that to his advantage when he talks to the media as well. But whereas last season, it kind of felt like everything was falling his way when he joined Feyenoord. This season, you're seeing the foundations of what he's trying to lay down there. Feyenoord have been defensively very solid.

35:43Quite a few players are developing well with Anis Hadjmusa, an interesting one, and Luciano Valente getting his first call up to the Dutch national team. It's quite a fun sight to watch. They do struggle a bit with injuries and the squad might just not be good enough to win a league title because Baysay is quite a bit more stacked as a squad. But if Baysay leaves openings like they did last season, Fainer look very much up for it to actually make this a very interesting title race. OK, just three points off the top as it stands because he's got that Arsenal pedigree like your Cesks, your Jack Wilsher, your Mikel Arteta.

36:23There's something he talks about in a nice piece that Art de Rocher wrote. He went out to meet him there in Rotterdam. Very nice. But Cal, the other thing we wanted to talk about, the Netherlands national side currently three points clear at the top of Group G. So looking pretty good for qualifying. But when you look at the squad, it's insane the amount of talent there. Is the feeling in the Netherlands that this is kind of one of the best generations in a very long time? And how bad would it be if you don't win anything with this team? Well, I don't want to exaggerate, but you know the meme of the pretty prawn horse and then the funny bit at the front, basically.

37:01That is how this site sometimes feels. Because when you talk about defenders and infielders, there are just so many good candidates. And the Dutch have many younger options, 20, 21-year-olds, that are very appealing and interesting as well. and I spoke to a friend the other day and I said if they can choose to join another nation, they probably should because the options there are endless. Yeah, I mean, that is great. But when it comes to the attacking part of the squad, they are very much still relying on Memphis Depay being the fulcrum of this side. Right. So just to go through the squad, goalkeepers like Flecken, Roos and Verbruggen.

37:39Back line, you've got the likes of Nathan Aki, Virgil van Dijk, Denzel Dunvries, Matthias De Ligt. Timbers, various Timbers are available, and Mickey van der Venne. I mean, it's an insane array of talent. In midfield, Ryan Dears, Gravenberg, Xavi Sivons, Noah Lang, Frankie de Jong, wow. And up front, the kind of comedy pantomime horse bit, Vogue Horse, you've got Clivert, Daniel Marlon, Memphis Depay, and Cody Gagba. I mean, there are other nations, James, that would love an array of goal-scoring. Would Italy take Vogue Horse? I reckon they would. No. I reckon they would. You should have been in the Dutch squad.

38:21Italy's strikers have actually have not let the team down in the last year. Yeah. They've got Moise Keane who scored 27 goals. Rettegui who was top scorer in Serie A last year. Pio Esposito. Yeah. Pio Esposito who's got how many goals? No, but Pio Esposito has been hyped to the point where... I know he's been hyped, but... Yeah, but he's a teenager, James. Where it's Pio is Easter. I would still take Pio Espositor and his potential over those Dutch strikers who are where they are right now. Okay. To be fair to those Dutch strikers, Daniel Malen has been very serviceable off the bench. Wout Wechhorst has actually shipped in quite a few goals.

39:02And Memphis Depay does constantly deliver. But the difference in terms of actual top club pedigree is quite staggering. And I think that is the main challenge for Ronald Koeman at the moment as well. With just a few months to go, can he make that side play some attacking, interesting football as well? And I think at the moment, it seems like the squad is quite set. Luciano Valenza making his squad debut, he was also talked about. I don't know if that's been a serious thing in Italy, but he has a double passport. His dad is Italian, so he played for the Italian youth sides before. but he is the one guy that now is getting a chance.

39:45But it seems like Rond Kuhn is quite set on who he is taking to the World Cup next summer. I think that there is still a chance for an attacker to possibly make a difference. I think Seb will agree that Ernest Poghue is probably one to watch there. Yeah, I was going to ask you, Mikael, because obviously Ernest Poghue now has five goals in under 600 Bundesliga minutes and played very, very well against Heidenheim over the weekend. And I just wanted to know where he features in the Dutch national team hierarchy at the moment, because he's obviously a youth international. I think he is the one that people are starting to look at.

40:18He offers a really unique kind of blend of qualities that are currently lacking in this squad. I don't think it's been talked about that much yet because it's only been a few months. And last summer, a lot of people were quite surprised to see him make a move like that. But his talent has never been in doubt. and Azat has been like a talent factory. It's absolutely insane. And for him to do as well as he did in quite difficult circumstances as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Boku on the plane next year. It feels like at the moment they're trying to show up the World Cup qualification, of course.

40:57But when the time for experimenting comes, he will definitely be one of the first on the list because this side lacks a bit of dribbling pedigree, He lacks that kind of basic trickery that he has. So I wouldn't be surprised to see Boku as part of the squad next season, next summer. Do people say on the plane in the Netherlands as well then, Mikael? No, I have been reading up way too much. Poland and Lithuania coming up over this international break. Hopefully the Netherlands will book their automatic qualifying place and avoid the playoffs because that's the last thing certain other countries want floating around as potential opponents.

41:35Mikhail, lovely to hear from you and look forward to catching up again soon. It's a big sound, yeah. Thanks. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. Hey, Paul Bolus. How was lunch in Vigo? Really good, really good. It was an Nando sport. It was amazing. No! There must be a Nando in Spain somewhere. It's a Spanish name. Over there in Galicia, I imagine it was, what was it, kind of like some... pulpo what were you eating yeah no no no we had some pulpo some octopus some zamburinhas do you know zamburinhas go on no so zamburinhas are like jesus how how how like can i describe it like is it a fish yeah some sort of oysters for like different like local from galicia okay amazing really good do you put some peri peri sauce on them yeah yeah yeah a bit of lemon and Herb.

42:27A bit of Halloween. Lemon and Herb. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, the Lemon and Herb, yeah. You were there for, what, the Barcelona game on Sunday night. Is that right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, they played last night here. A big game. A big game here in Bigo. Excellent. Excellent. All right. We were going to do Serie A now, but, you know, since you're here, let's hear about Barcelona's 4-2 victory, one which moves them a little bit closer again to the top of the table. They were coming off a disappointing week in Europe. let's say, but looked much better with the return of Robert Lewandowski.

43:00Yeah, pretty much. I think that he basically saved the day. Barcelona were probably not shambolic, but not great in the first half. They, again, considered a lot defensively. Celta de Vigo could run easily in behind the defensive line. But then in the second half, I think that Barcelona, Hans of Ligue 1, had one of the best moments of the season, one of the best displays that they've showed, really good on possession of the ball. And they controlled the game, but basically what made the difference was Robert Lewandowski. hat-trick.

43:35Just a masterclass on how to be a striker. He's 37, but he's going to score goals until he's 70 if he wants to. And it arrives in a tricky moment because it's most likely going to be his last season at the club. After the game, Hansi Flick said that it's a bit too early to speak about his future. He didn't want to entertain a lot of talks It's about extension, not extension. Is he leaving? But everyone at Barcelona knows that he's going to leave at the end of this season. But still, he proved that he can be a really useful asset for this Barcelona side. So a hat-triggered 37 years and 80 days of age, making him the third oldest hat-trick scorer in La Liga this century.

44:14So who is older? Can like one be Jorge Molina? One of them is Jorge Molina. Get in, get in. Tore's brother. Boss, you're this.

44:33El Comandante Morales. Ah, el Comandante Morales. Okay, yeah. Morales? No. I'm looking, like trying really over 35, like, you know, over 37. Soldado Negredo? One of them? Negredo? No, no Soldado, no Negredo. Do you have the list now, Jimbo? Uh-huh. We know them all. All right, so the oldest, 39 years of age and 241 days Jorge Molina against Mallorca in 2021 okay third on the list Robin Lemdowski against Salto Vigo on Sunday and in between the two Joaquin Sanchez in 2019 who's that for? Betis oh for Betis right that Joaquin right okay yeah yeah wow anyway oh Marcus Rashford notched up a couple more assists in this game Brilliant.

45:22If you can check like this is that he gave for the second goal, it was brilliant. A cross, really whipped cross from the left-hand side. Perfect cross for Lewandowski just to get the best out of a starfell, the Celta defender. Yeah, great, great goal. I think that he improved a lot in his off-the-ball behaviour as well, which was a big talking point this week after the Bruges game. What happened after the Bruges game? Well, after the Bruges game, there was like a comprehensive talk about how Barca behave off the ball, the high pressing, which is not good enough, or at least as good as last season.

45:52And if Barca should keep playing with that high line, if they are not able to keep up with the off-the-ball duties. And of course, Rashford, as all the strikers were involved in that sort of conversation, but I think that him, Lamin-Jamal and Robert Lewandowski did much of a better job against El Tadrigo, and they proved a point, and they cut two points to Real Madrid, which is basically the perfect weekend for Barcelona fans. Excellent. It was, of course, a 3-3 draw against Bruges in the Champions League, and could have been much worse, to be honest. Meanwhile, Real Madrid dropping points because they only managed a 0-0 draw this weekend against Rayo Vallecano.

46:28Always a difficult place to go. Yeah, yeah. It's a difficult place to go and like a really good side because I think that it was closer, the game was closer to a Rayo win than to a Madrid win. Of course, there's the caveats of small pitch, not like the perfect pitch as well in terms of being able to play out with the ball, but the intensity and the sort of game plan that Rayo Alicano had was really, really good. Gourtois made a big save again. And yeah, still a lot of debate and doubts in Madrid on whether the figure of Xavi Alonso, he has the power in that rushing room just to dictate the way that the team has to play.

47:05So yeah, it's one of the biggest talking points in Madrid ahead of this international break. Carlo's coming back, isn't he, after he wins the World Cup with Brazil? Maybe, you never know. or like it's in a little bit maybe no no it's taking the France job okay good also coming back Barcelona to the Camp Nou because you went and had a look at the new camp on Friday before the trip to Vigo I say new it looks still pretty unfinished Paul it does it does and if you walk through the old side it's still a work in progress but that's something that is taken as a given in Barcelona yeah Yeah, sort of, sort of.

47:46They never finish anything. Is it like, I think the story about houses in Greece, which usually have a bit of scaffolding going up on the roof because you don't pay tax on the property until it's finished. So just leave it. Just leave it. What are you suggesting? I mean, yeah, I think that the tax still applies. So I don't think that's the reason. But yeah, it's just still a bit unfinished. I think that it's really just, well, they already have the license to host games with 27 ,000 people. And now basically Barcelona waiting to have a new license to host 45 ,000 people. And that's when the team will move permanently in there and not just for training sessions.

48:23Okay. Did you like it? I did like it. I mean, inside of the stadium, it got a lot of the feeling of the old come now. I had been going there since I was a kid. So I got the feeling of having the same sort of build. The structure is just the same. They just reinforced it. And yeah, it had the same feeling with, of course, new facilities inside and everything. Do you know who wants to play there one day? What, for Barcelona? Yeah, Leo Messi. He posted that. Oh, right. No, back to the club, because obviously he just signed a new three-year deal with Winter Miami, but he posted this thing on Instagram saying he would love to play there.

48:56And I think Laporta has also mentioned the possibility. I mean, don't believe anything that Laporta says, but surely at some point, Paul, they He would organise a game for Messi, a tribute. He's going to come back with the family, everything, no? Laporte was in tears on Friday. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was in tears for that game. I mean, Laporte is one that he knows how not to miss out on a good picture. Yeah. I don't have any doubt that he's a massive Barca fan and he really feels the badge and everything. Right. But it's election years again. So, yeah, I think that Laporte knows how to move in that territory.

49:30Paul do you reckon Messi will come back for like the Gamper next year or something that's the shorty yeah no that's that's a really good question and good link up by Jules here I'm writing a piece as we speak now about this picture that was posted in Messi's Instagram and the implications Barcelona didn't know nothing about Messi going there they just didn't know nothing and yeah he basically sneaked out inside of the stadium and took the pictures with a friend in there Messi is going to go to Alicante on this international break because Argentina are going to have a training camp in there before going to Angola where they're player-friendly.

50:06So basically, he did a layover in Barcelona for one night. It was on Sunday night. He stopped with a friend, went to the camp now because he wanted to see it so that it was possible to get in. They just get in, take the pictures. And yeah, I mean, it's been read here in Barcelona as a sort of a political move because the caption and what Messi says is sort of, he wants to be involved in that club in the future. He wants to play a role in the club. He says that he wants to come back not just for the testimonial, not just to get a send-off. He wants to be a part of Barcelona. And possibly he's sort of preparing himself for a bit of life after football.

50:42As I mentioned, there's elections next year, and his camp, Messi's camp, like deny that he wants to get involved in that. But I wouldn't dismiss like a midterm having Messi in those sorts of conversation, maybe not as president, but I don't know, or a sporting director or something like this. That's more like my personal opinion, but I think this has a huge political reading. Who would rival Laporta for president? I know it's early, but is Pique hanging around or is he too busy with his Kings League nonsense? You know, what's going on? Because, I mean, Messi was at some American business forum last week where he was like, I'm here because I know nothing about business, which might make him the perfect Barcelona president, given we've seen.

51:26what's happened over the last few years. Yeah, no, so Laporta has no rival, basically, in my opinion. Of course, there's candidates who plan to present themselves into the elections. There's Victor Font, who was the runner-up in the last elections. There's Max Sirian, another candidate that has been doing the rounds and putting the fillers out to test his name in Barcelona. And Joan Camperouille as well, grandson of a former president of Barcelona. Victor Font probably would be the highest-profile candidate. But I don't think that there's any real rivals to Joan Laporta. I mean, the fact of Messi posting this picture without Laporte knowing and without the club knowing and shaking because the booze in Barcelona has really shaken when they've seen Messi posting this picture.

52:06In a way, it shows you the power that he has. As I said, I mean, he doesn't plan to present himself or to be in contention for the next election. But he's that sort of name that he can turn the tables around, even with a figure like Laporte, who doesn't have a clear opposition right now. It was incredible, like Paul said. If you and I or Paul just go to the company to get in, you need all those authorization. He clearly went at night. The security people saw him, opened him the door, and he just walked in like if it was his own house. It's just incredible. I mean, in a way it is. Yeah, it is his own house.

52:39So, so true. Excellent, Paul. Anything else you want to tell us before we get on to Serie A? No, no, no, I think it's fine. I think it's fine. we can go to the Serie A and I can ask James Honkastle about Adria Bernabe there you go just a bit of love for Antoine Griezmann because I think he deserved it the way he came on against Levante when his team was not good and then he scored on his first touch to make 2-0-1 La Liga goals and then 2-0-2 after that and then the next day he took a private jet to Berlin to watch the NFL game because he's a massive American football fan alright Seb was there as well yeah he was but yeah so a bit of love for Griezmann He's not the old Grise, but he's still capable with all his talent to moments of brilliance like this.

53:23Lovely stuff. They are in fourth spot, Atleti. Just let me shout out to Villarreal. And I wanted to shout away as well, because now I'm in vivo. And as I'm doing this, there's like a Celta Rigo player, who is a guy from my hometown in here, just like next to me. And I wanted to shout him out. Saran Jogla, who is a... Oh, we love him from Bruges as well. He moved from Bruges. Put him on, put him on. I'm going to let him to say hi. Yes. I speak to him in Spanish, right? Yeah, yeah. We can speak to him in Spanish. Sí, no hay problema. Hola, tío. Hola, ¿cómo estamos? Hola, ¿bien y tú? Muy bien, gracias.

54:05Gracias, Ferán. Estoy aquí con mi amigo que fuimos a comer y todo bien por aquí. Sí, sí, sí. ¿Cómo está la vida en Vigo? ¿Te gusta? Yes, I like it. Very calm. Here in the north of Spain, it's very beautiful. You have mountains and beaches too. And the food is wonderful. That's how you live well. Good. Perfect. Excellent. See you later. Excellent. So, he said that it's very nice there, Jules. In the north of Spain, you have mountains and also the sea. The beach, yeah. The beach, yeah. It's a great food as well, he said. Great food as well. Yeah, Nando's. The Nando's in Vigo. look at you name dropping name dropping there Paul I'll just bring my celebrity football friend onto the show when we joke about Paul with Nando's remember in Newcastle the reason he didn't go to the recommendation I gave him because he was having lunch with a player well no with a friend of a player yeah and they brought me to Nando's see this is what Paul does yeah do you remember when he played Paddle with we can't say the name Lewandowski My Lewandowski's agent or brother.

55:15Well, it's true. Yeah. I mean, I've never said the name. So it's done now. We can't delete it, can we? No, no. Go for it. Go for it. So that brings this week's Nando's Liga update to an end. So Villarreal, can I tell you, Paul, they won 2-0. We're Espanyol, which means they are nicely placed in third. So Villarreal is the third best team in La Liga, right? Is this the same Villarreal that lost to Pafos in the Champions League? I'm just asking for a friend. No, no, no. That's really good because you come to the point that I wanted to make, Jules. Because that's a bit of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde about Villarreal who in La Liga are quite clinical and performing really, really well.

55:54But then in the Champions League it's fair to say that they've had a bit of a bad run of fixtures playing against top teams Juve, Man City and Tottenham, I think. So they were unlucky. But yeah, in the Champions League they have to do better. But I think they have the yeah, they have the potential to be the third or fourth team in Spain for sure. Well, currently third best in La Liga. Paul, enjoy yourself over the international break or stick around for the City A chat if you wish. This night I would invite you to do the same because it's a brilliant one this week as always and that's up next.

56:30You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. All right, let's learn just one section to make it through. It's City Hour with James Horncastle. James, crisis in Naples. What's going on? Is it another one of their heroically bad title defences? Well, yeah, I mean, Conte was like, guys, I hate to, like, bring up skeletons from the past, but didn't the last time you win the league, you finished 10th? Well, I'm not going to stand for that. and I mean whilst he said he would he thinks he's able to turn this around he was like I don't want to be sort of on the sideline just whilst the team's going through the motions in fact the words he used was like accompanying the dead I can't do heart transplants is what he said as well he could do hair transplants but not heart transplants so his words have very much been interpreted as leaving all options open, if you know what I mean, for this current crisis and his role going forward for Napoli.

57:46The results have not been great. There was the 6-2 defeat against PSV Eindhoven. They did then have back-to-back wins in Serie A, beating Inter and then a 1-0 victory over Lecce. And then three straight games without even scoring a goal. The 0-0 at home to Como, the 0-0 at home to Eintracht Frankfurt last midweek, and now the 2-0 loss away at Bologna at the weekend. I must say that Bologna are a good team. Very good. I was very impressed. Bologna, I think, only a point outside the top four, unbeaten in 10 games in all competitions. Got that young goalkeeper. Got that young goalkeeper. I think Lewis Ferguson as well, more than a year now back from that ACL and you can see he's sort of getting back to the player he was before he had that injury as well.

58:29So Bologna, no mugs. That's their best start. Just to celebrate their best start since they went to three points for a win in Serie A, which would be the early 90s. Yeah, so I think specifically it's 96, 97. Okay. So, yeah, we're getting close to three decades. Wow. And, you know, they also played on Thursday night in the Europa League as well. So they'd had less time to prepare, rest, all those sort of things, which was the thing that made it really galling for Conte. Conte paid compliments to Bologna. He was like, they had just a different energy to us. and we've got no excuses because of exactly what I've just laid out.

59:06Everyone's minding their own orchard. Yes, yes. So is that him saying that players, there's a split in the dressing room or was? Well, he got a lot of flack, didn't he, after the PSV Eindhoven game for saying you've signed me too many players. He brought nine players into the dressing room who weren't there last year. and I think what he's saying like we're not a team at the moment is like those new players with the exception of the goalkeeper Vanny Milinkovic-Savic and De Bruyne who's now injured and won't be back until the new year the new players just haven't added anything and they're not they're perhaps not buying in in the way that he thinks they should be buying in after four months and we saw again in Eindhoven Noah Lang gave that interview to a Dutch broadcaster where he was saying he thought he should be playing more things like that.

1:00:01You had David Neres as well who was back in Holland. He played in Ajax saying I think a Dutch journalist was like do you like Naples David? And he was like no. Not even the tomatoes. Not even the tomatoes. And Scott McTominay you brought up the fact that they haven't scored in the last three games James. The miss. You're going to mention the miss. Yeah he missed a few. Well, he missed, but Scott was their top scorer last season. He's not a striker, even though he was sort of playing as a second striker last year. Scored only 12 goals. And won Napoli the league last year was they had the best defence and they were more intense, more passionate, had more heart than anybody else, which is why Conte makes this point about, you know, sort of I can't, it's nothing to do with what's on the pitch in terms of tactics or what.

1:00:52it's to do with my players attitude and after the Eindhoven game he sat his players down had a meeting said look you have to sort yourselves out three days later they beat Inter he thought that was behind them but it's clearly not behind them and that's his issue currently lying 24th 24th in the Champions League yeah league phase I think Paphos ahead of Napoli and Juve yeah wow yeah such is the quality of City this season though that there's still only two points off the top of La Clasifica Bologna moved up to fifth as you mentioned so Napoli are they're level with Milan but behind on goal difference those two sides are two points behind Roma and Inter who are top of the pile the top four separated effectively by just two points very tight Inter beat Lazio 2-0 on Sunday night lovely goal from Lautaro Martinez and then your pal Bonni with the second Roma beating Udinese earlier on this weekend by the same scoreline a game which brought Zaniolo back to the Stadio Olimpico this was a great moment did you watch the kick off I didn't see the kick off what happened there ok so Stadio Olimpico sold out as usual and Zaniolo is the Udinese player designated to take the kick off and he's obviously waiting for the referee to sort of blow the whistle and the referee takes ages and so you just have this cacophony of whistles and boos and he's just stood there taking it.

1:02:24And to be honest, he almost scored as he did last year with Atalanta, which is again one of the reasons why Roma fans have such disdain for Zaniolo, who's been in good form recently, but not as good form as Roma and that Roma defence, which is the best in Europe's top five leagues at the moment. Yeah, they're still scoring about goal again, but thanks to their resolute backlight. a rear guard. They are top of the pile along with Inter, although behind a goal difference, not surprisingly. And also doing well in the Europa League. Two-0 winners away in Glasgow on Thursday night. Yeah, there is a sense, particularly in the last few weeks, that Roma are cooking and that they are more and more looking like a Gasparini team.

1:03:09Nice. But full credit to Claudio Ranieri as well because it was this time last year that Ivan Juric was sacked by Roma. Sure. On the same day he's been sacked by Atalanta. Yes. But with Ranieri, you had this resurgence with Roma. And in the second half last season, they had more points than anybody. And that's continued on the gasp, which I suppose if you look at it over 11 months now, that Roma have been getting these results, it is encouraging people to believe that they can maybe go all the way and win the Scudetto. Okay. Now, you mentioned Ivan Juric. Managerial casualties are mounting in City.

1:03:48Yeah, Jules, even Juric sacked at Atalanta earlier today, Monday as we record this. Atalanta lying 13th. They were handed a 3-0 beating by Sassuolo on Sunday at home. Who's coming in? Is it Raffaele Palladino? Well, they haven't announced anybody at the time of recording, but it looks like Raffaele Palladino, another of Gasperini's many, many disciples, which Atalanta can choose. but you know someone who unlike Ivan Juric who had been sacked by Roma sacked by Southampton you know Palladino left Fiorentina of his own accord in the summer having led them to their best finish in 10 years got Moyes-Kent to score 27 goals in all competitions and is seen as a bit of a coming man in Serie A so if it is Palladino I imagine he would be a better fit than poor Ivan Palladino's former side, Fiorentina, who were already on their second manager since he departed this summer.

1:04:49They faced Genoa this weekend, who also had a new manager in for the occasion. So you had Paolo Vanoli for the Viola, and Daniele Di Rossi, who also featured for Roma last season. It's incredible how these names keep cropping up. They faced off anyway in a key match, a real six-pointer down the bottom, because they're both in the relegation zone. a 2-2 draw which doesn't help either of them terribly much but early days yeah neither coach had a lot of time to work with the players because yeah i think they both got the jobs on friday derossi was up in the stands for genoa great save by david de jane on a penalty from lorenzo colombo i have to say the the atmosphere at morassi regardless of how bad the team has been this year well they've only won once and that was the interim coach Domenico Crisito last week.

1:05:41They get 36 ,000, 37 ,000 at Marassi a week. And yeah, considering the state the club is in, you just have to take your hat off to the genuani and the support that they're giving this team, which I think Daniele De Rossi will feed off. You know, De Rossi, I think, deserves another chance at this level on the basis of his first year at Roma. and yeah, let's see the only thing is it's like Genoa are one of those 7-7 clubs which are now in the hands of a random Romanian who decided not to really buy anybody in the summer so it's slim pickings really for Terossi in terms of the players he's got to choose from whereas Vanoli has got a team that's had 90 million invested in it in the summer so it should be Fiorentina should not be bottom of the table Indeed, indeed another recent arrival on a Serie A bench is Luciano Spalletti who of course is now in charge of Juventus what do you want to tell us about the nil no draw in the Turin derby well Juventus didn't play badly 22 shots upwards of near 70 % possession played a lot of the game in Torino's half didn't really give Torino many chances apart from the goal Giovanni Simeone had disallowed Michele de Gregorio, the Juventus goalkeeper, also made a really good save.

1:07:09But yeah, they're still lacking a bit of cutting edge, which to be honest, I mean, now that Sputti's got to this international break, would the players who are not in international duty have more time to sort of introduce his concepts and ideas and get those strikers scoring, which is the thing that really has been, I'd say, hurting Juventus so far this season. Okay, it was a 1-1 draw loss week in the Champions League at home to Sporting, this at home to Torino. They're away after the international break against Fiorentina in that latest edition of that old rivalry. Then they go to the inside the Arctic Circle for a bit of Bodo glimps.

1:07:46What else from Serie A? We've got the Milan Derby when we come back after the international break. Milan dropping points after being 2-0 up against another of the relegation strugglers, Parma. This week, into very much in I think you hailed them as the strongest team in Serie A. Yeah, I mean, that's what Igor Tudor said and a number of other coaches have said this season, clearly the best. And I don't think they're just deflecting either. In a league where strikers are not scoring, Inter have four strikers, or at least three and a half very good ones. Bonny keeps scoring since his move from Parma.

1:08:26Lautaro is always there, always gets 20 goals. People seem to forget that they've been without Marcus Turam now for six weeks. they haven't really missed him, which is, you know, speaks volumes about Inter, in my opinion. I think Kivu is just a, he's a really smart, articulate, clear-minded coach, who's, I think, impressed certainly the club hierarchy. I think Inter are still the team to beat in Serie A. Paul wanted us to talk about Bernabe's goal against Milan, which was top bins.

1:09:09In the sette. In the sette, yeah. It's a lovely curler. Indeed. So we've got the international break coming up now. Italy playing Moldova and Norway. Chances of doing a sort of pass with Norway, of overtaking Norway are almost negligible, even if they win. So it's all about getting ready for the playoff, really, because that's been a trauma in the last two sets of World Cup qualifying. Anything noteworthy from Gattuso's selection? No, the only newbie is the fourth-choice goalkeeper, Caprile, from Caleri. The rest is kind of as is. But with Reno, Buffon and Bonucci, the kind of trio that are in charge, you can't really ask more of them.

1:09:58They've won every game that they've been in charge of. the national team is only going to go into the playoffs because they've dropped points in one game which just shows the standard that Norway have set and even when Italy won, well they scored 10 goals in the first two qualifiers despite Gattuso saying which is not a nation that scores a lot of goals that gave them fleeting hope of maybe reaching Norway on goal difference and then Norway replied by I think spanking Moldova by 10 goals, which really kind of just said, nah, it doesn't matter. What happens from here on in, their goal difference is just too great.

1:10:39So yeah, even this international break, it's just maybe about building a bit more confidence, understanding, but I think they've already accepted that they're going into the playoffs. Woof. Okay. One last talking point then from this week. We should mention the fact that decisive things are happening with San Siro. Now, there's been various occasions when the story, San Siro is going to be knocked down. They're building a new San Siro. They've gone around and the story's kind of gone away. And this time, the clubs have now sealed the purchase of the stadium. And it looks like everything is genuinely in place for them to build a new ground on the old parking lot.

1:11:20They'll keep a corner of the Giuseppe Mianza and put a shopping center in it. apart from that anything else we should know? I mean this is all geared towards there being a new stadium for the European Championships in 2032 which Italy is sharing with Turkey I think Norman Foster who's done such a great job with that tent of a model we've seen the new Old Trafford him and Manica they're there are two rival bids is that right for the design? No. Oh really? It's down to definitely Foster is it? It's Foster and Manica they're going through the design over the next six months so yeah i mean look in in the master plan which was put together in the old project that's where you know what you were alluding to in terms of how much of the existing stadium will be preserved there was still one of the cylindrical towers and that sort of thing we'll have to see how much of that is preserved but yes the area where that san siro is at the moment is supposed to be you know sort of turned into apartments turned into shopping and commercial property and sort of link the two neighborhoods either side of San Siro because you've got that very leafy part behind San Siro where a lot of the players live and then you've got sort of Kazipopoulade which is sort of like almost like council estate kind of bits around it and this would I don't know unify them I suppose with this big big stadium next door to the existing site so yeah the plan is for that stadium to open what a year before the uh the european championship 2032 and then all the other bits that i was just mentioning will they'll keep building that until i think it will be completed in 2035 so but it's definitely happening this time yeah i mean they've the two clubs as you mentioned they've bought the actual uh the existing stadium before this final amendment could be made where it would make part of that stadium a listed building but you know there are still appeals i think both clubs even though they've got their names on the deed for San Siro, they're both cautious about this because you never know with Italian politics, you never know what things can come up.

1:13:28But certainly, yes, this is a major step forward in both clubs and their owners' ambitions to open a new stadium. Excellent. All right, James, we're out with the old. Jules will miss it. You can't stop progress. You can't stop progress. Don't even try. It's needed. By the way, if you would like to know more about top city outside Como, currently seventh in the Italian top flight, then the Athletic FC podcast may be of interest to you. They're going to be speaking to the Como president, Mirwan Sawazo. That's out on Thursday, discussing Cesc, the club's rebirth, a little bit of fashion too. Sure.

1:14:12Nice. No Tony Football Show European edition next week. because of the internationals. We'll return after that. But many, many thanks to Paul and Seb and Michael. To you, Jules, and you, James, and for you, Salusi, and you, listener. Have yourself a great break, and we'll catch up with you after. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye. You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, Search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

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