Bellingham inspires England to a semi-final with Argentina

0:01This episode of the Totally Football Show is sponsored by BOSS, businesswear provider for the U.S. men's national soccer team. Long before kickoff, the performance has already begun. For the players, the crest is not simply worn, it's earned. BOSS understands what it takes to build something worthy of a crest. Constant refinement, precision in every stitch. And as the U.S. MNT steps into the spotlight on home soil, BOSS is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forward with confidence express their individuality and be their own boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring from Boss Performance and soccer fans Boss has you covered too whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your heroes in Boss Performance or show your pride from the stands in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colours and badges own the moment with confidence discover the Boss Performance Collection as worn by the US Men's National Soccer Team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos and jackets in national colours.

1:01Wear your passion your way and be your own boss at boss.com or at your nearest boss store.

1:12Magnus Carlsen, Edvard Munch, Royxop, Adder Hegerberg, Morten Harkett from AHA, Magna and Paul from AHA, Martin Sleekness, Roald Dahl's parents your boys took a hell of a beating your boys took a hell of a beating

1:39Saturday at the World Cup Norway lay between the Hard Rock and a semi-final place for England but Jew the dude came good we salute Bellingham asked why Tuchel was yelling him and whether the victory for England actually did go down to the wire while Vikings take a hiking Next up, England's face Argentina, who played Switzerland over the course of what seemed many hours on Saturday before Julian Alvarez won it with a worldie. All that in this Totally at the World Cup. Saturday night in Los Angeles, almost certainly not wherever you are. Thank you so much for joining us for this Totally at the World Cup.

2:12On the sofa today, we have an Englishman, a Colombian and a Scotsman. Welcome, Tim. Welcome, Philippian. Welcome back, Phil. Hey. Thank you very much. Lovely to see you all. Full house. Yeah It's been a big day Yeah We had last semi-finalists confirmed That England-Argentina matchup Woof Also possibly saw the goal of the tournament would you say? Potentially Certainly when we add the drama to it I think so Yeah A lot to discuss 100 matches 100 matches with today's two games And just four teams left standing Are they the right four teams Tim? According to FIFA yes interesting to note that neither Messi, Haaland nor Kane scored today which I don't think any of us would have predicted at the start but that didn't take away any of the drama, you know, it was a pretty controversial day and in the end FIFA wins.

3:07There you go Football won. Football won as well so it's the first time since the rankings were introduced in 1992, FIFA's rankings that numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4 are in the semi-finals and of course these were also the seeds who were separated thusly in a sort of a tennis style at the start of the tournament, which is new for this year. So with the idea of creating these blockbuster matches, which we're now going to get. Well, I'm not going to lie. I quite like the matchups that we got for the semifinal. Phil, let me ask you, what's been your moment of the day? Moment of the day is the did it, didn't it clearance from Nyland, the Norwegian goalkeeper that everybody, except for FIFA and the ball apparently thought, hit a cable that was on the Sky camera over the pitch in Miami.

3:51Did it hit, Phil? Well, FIFA say that there is a sensor in the ball. Obviously, we know that because it can pick up the flick of hair, as it did in the Portugal-Croatia game. FIFA say there was no alert from the sensor at all. They say it was working the whole time. The problem is that looking at the videos, everybody thinks they can see the trajectory changing and the spin of the ball, and people on the Norway bench are absolutely adamant that it did hit the cable. But FIFA say no. It did lead to, or at least that clearance led to England's equaliser. So it was kind of significant, but we move on as per.

4:25There were two angles. The first one, which circulated quite widely, was from behind the goal. So you couldn't really see. It did seem that the ball dropped, but we're now seeing a sideways one. It's very hard to explain why the ball just suddenly goes, unless it's catching. It's the triumvirate, isn't it? Yeah. Well, that's it, yeah, oddsworth. But I don't know, it wouldn't be much skin off FIFA's nose really to just say yes it did if it did. And it seems odd to lie about it. If it did happen, then they could just hold their hands up. There's already a bunch of people out there in Croatia who feel that the snick-o-meter isn't the world's most reliable indicator.

5:02Indeed. The only thing I will say though is that our referee expert, Graeme Scott, said that he didn't think he should have stopped the game. He didn't think there was enough interference. He said it's kind of similar to if the ball hit a paper cup or something like that, which I don't agree with personally, but that was his view. We saw, and you'll forgive me not remembering which teams were involved, we saw somebody bounce a ball off the corner flag on their way to scoring a goal way back... Oh, it was Austria. Yeah, Austria against Algeria. So if you can use the corner flag as an assister, can you not use the spider cam cable?

5:31I don't know. Third question, good point. Okay. Felipe. Well, sticking on that theme with the Norwegian goalkeeper, Nealon, before, well, first of all, my moment of the day is the blunder, his blunder that led to the England winner. And before I get into that, I just want to recognize that he had a wonderful World Cup. He was great. Nealon was great for Norway, made some spectacular saves, particularly against Ivory Coast and stoppage time to maintain, to keep them from winning. he had a huge save against Brazil also which when he was almost there was a shot from midfield and he made his particular save this is a very good goalkeeper in my opinion who had a great tournament but in the biggest moment he failed to contain the ball and I when I look at it I still think it is a routine save for a goalkeeper at this level now the trianda as you mentioned is getting a lot of I wouldn't say it's as controversial as the Jabulani obviously but former goalkeepers like Joe Hart, Kasper Schmeichel, they've both chimed in to say that at certain points when you strike that ball at distance and it's like shoulder high of the goalkeeper, it really moves in a way that the goalkeeper seems to react late.

6:47This was not that case. Morgan Rodgers did have a shot where he put a lot of topspin on it. It goes through traffic, but you can see in the replay that Neyland had time to make a decision and it looked like he went down too early and then decided, should I catch it? Should I parry it? And it goes off his chest. He was heartbroken. He was inconsolable after the game. So I think that is just the tale of two tournaments in one for Neyland where he was great for them at first, and when it really mattered, he wasn't. And that's how cruel this World Cup can be sometimes. This was in the 93rd minute, and Jude Bellingham, the only man apparently with the juice left in his legs to get there and steer it in and England go through.

7:29Tim your moment of the day on an equally sort of important and consequential note I had a smoothie for breakfast this morning so I went to Beverly Hills and spent$21 oh yeah on a famous smoothie where's it from this is from Irwan or Irwan this is where all the influencers go Jimbo so Justin Bieber's missus endorses this apparently that's not her though and it's full of all kinds of stuff like strawberries almond milk collagen peptides sea moss gel which was delicious and uh coconut cream it was outstanding was it really good this guy two places to my left replied to my instagram story and called me a mug um but i've since described it and he's going to go and get one tomorrow yeah i might do it reminded me of pulp fiction where john travolta and thurman go to um wherever it is they go rabbit slim that's the one Yeah, very good.

8:24And she orders a$5 shake,$5. And he says, and this is what I said to Tim, does it have bourbon in it for$5? So it's a good shake, but what does it have in it? And I think$21 for a shake is a great example of go woke, go broke. Okay, but how did it make you feel? That's the proof and the point. So apparently it improves your skin and makes your skin look great. So I'll let you... It does look great. It's definitely working on it. I was wondering. Yeah. I mean, now we know, now we know. But yeah, Producer Lucy's also had some. Did you have one as well? In terms of the athletic expenses budget, we're all absolutely smashing it.

9:00What did Producer Lucy's verdict? Two thumbs up. No wonder their skin is glowing. Two thumbs up. Well, you can have my last scrap of dignity tomorrow and I will go. I'll spend$21 on it. Good for you, Phil. Now, in other in-the-cup news, we had two quarterfinals, the last two quarterfinals, and that's how they finished. England defeating Norway after extra time. Argentina beats Switzerland 3-1. And England will meet Argentina. Yeah. Quite an 8-in. Yeah. Now, ahead of kickoff of both games on the Saturday, a minute's silence was observed in tribute to the South Africa player Jadon Adams, who we learned today has died at the age of just 25.

9:43He played in the World Cup only a few weeks ago. Felipe, I think you saw him in action for the Saturday. Yeah, in Mexico, South Africa. I saw him twice, actually. Also in Atlanta when South Africa played Chechia. Right. Yes. Tremendously sad news and our thoughts with everyone who's missing him and his family. Now, we'll move on. First up for us, a proper look at what happened between England and Norway.

10:09England 2, Norway 1 after extra time. Michael Cox joins us from Miami. me michael hello good evening hello to you michael let's get the weather stuff out of the way first of all what was it like was it the hottest game ever it wasn't hot i've been here nine days it was the coolest day in terms of temperature and it was uh the most humid day it was a humidity that was causing so many problems even walking five ten minutes and it was really tough so if If you happen to watch that game and you thought it was really slow and you didn't know why they weren't making more forward runs or being more proactive, honestly, that is, I think, physically probably the toughest game most of those players have ever played in.

10:56So, yeah, I think that explains a lot of the tempo of the game. Yeah, absolutely. So many players outstanding for their performances. John Stone, for example, who I think has only played a full 90 twice this season for Man City and here doing 120. but the name that we have to begin with is Jude Bellingham. Tim, you're putting a piece together, trying to answer the question, is Jude Bellingham's World Cup campaign the greatest England tournament performance ever? Is that right? Yeah, it certainly sort of feels that way. You know, no sort of disrespect to Harry Kane, but it's sort of feeling like Jude Bellingham's tournament now in the way that sort of, you know, Gazza in 1990 or Michael O in 98 or indeed Kane in 2018.

11:37But it's probably most reminiscent of Rooney 2004, and that's a Euro is not a World Cup, just in terms of the way that he's like bending games to his will, you know. And another comparison would be with Steven Gerrard, who I immediately thought of today with that first goal, just sort of, you know, getting to the loose ball ahead of his man, driving into the box, you know, just head down, one thing on his mind, doesn't matter how many defenders are around him, and he scores. And it's that, Gerrard never really did this for England at World Cups, but that's sort of talismanic, you know, I will drag this team through with brilliance.

12:10you know Beckham used to drag sort of England through by sort of setting by example with his work rate and his desire but Bellingham's got the individual brilliance you know to to go with that so it's very much becoming you know his England World Cup campaign. Four goals in two matches that's now six goals in this campaign which equals Gary Lineker's England record of six non-penalty goals at the 86 World Cup. We laughed when Birmingham City retired his shirt at the age of whatever it was, 18. But look at it, he's becoming one of the world's biggest football stars, Michael. Yeah, he is. And I think he is because he's basically being allowed to do the thing that he's best at.

12:47He's a midfielder who I don't think always contributes that much in the midfield zone. But he's really, really good at providing the decisive contributions in the final third. And in that first half season at Real Madrid, I think he was the best player in Europe in that period where he was basically, I mean, almost a centre forward, almost the most central attacker that Real Madrid had. His form for Real Madrid has tailed off a little bit since they brought in Mbappe, and he's being asked to act as more of a midfield player. That's not really his game. I think he's almost a shadow striker. He loves playing off Harry Kane.

13:23Kane is a number nine who, as we discussed yesterday, thinks he plays, in his words, a completely different position to Erling Haaland because he likes coming short to receive the ball to feet. and Bellingham really likes that because Bellingham's the opposite. Bellingham's a midfielder who actually does his best contributions in the box. And obviously, I mean, the second goal is a poachers goal, almost a centre-forward goal. But, you know, as Tim says, the way he just took the ball on for the first goal is, I think that's almost the, I don't even know if there's a word for it, but that thing that footballers do where they kind of, they take a touch is when you think they're about to control it, but they're actually taking it in their stride first time, almost past an opponent.

14:04I just think it's so impressive. I mean, the finish was good, but it was the first touch really that made the goal. There's a goal for Rangers that Gazza scored, and I think it was 95 or 96, and it was on the day that they won the title against Aberdeen. It's exactly the same sort of thing where he's in a position on the edge of the box, or at least he gets to a position on the edge of the box, and he just needs to drive himself into an area where he can score. And I thought that. It was different Gazza's because he started the run from deep, but it's kind of in a position where the odds on him scoring weren't high and pulled it out of the bag just when they needed it and that was exactly what he got from Bellingham today.

14:41Pulling it out of the bag when England needed it for the second game in a row. A brace from Bellingham when England hadn't been performing well to the extent that their own manager afterwards said that he wasn't happy in any way. Let's have a look at his words here. The way we play was sloppy, a lot of technical mistakes. We were lucky today. We need to play better. Michael were you there were you across Bellingham's reaction to that when he was told what Tuchel had said about the team's performance no so this all happened on ITV I think with the same interview I think it was Gabriel Clark and so the press conference was kind of following up on that and I mean I don't think to be honest I've been surprised with Tuchel about how honest he's been I think he's been very open and he's been very honest about performances and I think what he said was fair he said it you know he was basically saying it wasn't the best in a kind of footballing sense, a technical sense.

15:31But the thing that got England through was, you know, the commitment and the desire and refusing to accept defeat and all those kind of things. And then he said they probably needed to play better if they're going to get to, well, if they're going to win their next two games, which I think was all fair enough. And from what I saw, Jude Bellingham relayed a very short summary of all that and reacted as if, well, he reacted as you'd expect from someone who played the best part of 120 minutes in the most difficult conditions he'd ever played. So, yeah, as we're speaking now, it almost feels like there's a bit of a rift between Tuchel and Bellingham.

16:07But I think once Bellingham realises what Tuchel is saying, and probably once Tuchel's actually spoken to the players in the dressing room, because they often do these interviews before they've spoken to the team, I'm sure everything will be okay. But Tuchel was right. It wasn't a great performance from England. I thought the first half was quite flat. I thought the second half England were actually really poor. And I think an extra time after they'd made basically the fourth and fifth substitutes and brought on Spence and Rodgers, England were the better team. And Norway just didn't have the depth that England had.

16:40And, you know, we were only two tournaments into the era of five substitutes. And I think England are very lucky that you get five substitutes because I think after two or three subs, England were looking quite shambolic. But once Tuchel fixed a couple of things, they were the better team. And I think in extra time, particularly once Haaland went off, which was probably about 20 minutes after Haaland should have gone off because he was completely knackered, I think England were probably the only team that was going to win that. This business of the substitutes, the first set of substitutes, hadn't worked out at all for Thomas Tuchel.

17:12Yeah, there was two at half time. He withdrew Madweke, which was the obvious thing to do. I mean, you know, I think we all saw it and Zlatan kind of said it. Ingram were basically playing with 10 men. And yeah, he also, he brought Sakharan at that point and then he took Rice off, who just looked like he was walking through Treacle in that first half. I assume on the back of not being well in the week, he looked like he had no energy. He wasn't even lifting his corners or his set pieces, which just looked like his feet were heavy, you know, as well. But this is one of the reasons why Tuka was hired, was to make these proactive and, you know, bold decisions.

17:47And yeah, he might bring Rhys James on in midfield and he might not have a great game. But then later, he'll just move him to right back and utilise all of his substitutes. You know, Southgate, as good a manager as he was and as good a record as he had, he wasn't great at making proactive subs before you saw them. You know, he would only really, you'd spot exactly what needed to happen and then he'd do it sort of 10 minutes later. So this is one of the reasons that England have Tuchel and this is one of the reasons why they're still in the competition. Okay. What did you make of England today, Felipe?

18:17Well, we talked about it. I think the football is perhaps on brand. Like, when was the last time we were mesmerized by this aesthetically pleasing brand of football from England? Like, there have been moments. I remember being in Qatar for England-Iran and being like, oh, my goodness. Like, look at this side, you know? And that was when Jude Bellingham, again, was becoming the star before our eyes. I think today in particular, you know, we have to give credit to Norway as well. Like, tactically, I felt like they were really intelligent also. They started the game really deep in a really deep block and then just turned on their press at one point.

18:54Off to the hydration. Exactly, yeah. And the goal came from that when suddenly England were unsure of themselves. Suddenly they didn't have time on the ball. There were moments in that match where Norway had a lot of possession, where they were on the front foot. They were the ones that were looking for the winning goal. They looked more confident than England. but you just had a sense that England, they have these game winners like Kane and Bellingham and they had the opportunities to win the game and in the end, again, a moment, you just need a moment in these tight elimination games and England took advantage.

19:28What happened to Norway's game winner today? He was never in the game, was he? And it was almost like a step too far. But I think Michael has probably explained that in part because of the conditions, which I imagine are extremely difficult to understand properly if you're not actually there. And it was very obvious watching the game that it was pretty laboured and it was pretty slow, and that explains why. And that was why I was a little bit surprised. I wonder if it's been lost in translation a little bit, but with what Tuchel said afterwards, because I was kind of on the side of Bellingham, really, when I first read it all, and thinking you couldn't have asked for an awful lot more today because it was so hot and so humid, and they got themselves there in the end.

20:07but I think with Haaland he just wasn't able to carry Norway today and I always felt that the day on which he couldn't carry them was the day on which they were going to hit the wall but I think Norway will regret some really big decision making moments in the game the main one being the Sarloth pass that wasn't to Haaland when they were 2-1 Stones did well to put himself in position to make it a more difficult ball than it would have been otherwise but that was pretty simple and Sarloth had an absolute stinker the same as Manu Eke today but also if you watch back the corner that was conceded before Bellingham's winner there was a chance to clear that and it was a strange scenario where Pedersen I think it was the Norwegian defender almost looked like he was shepherding the ball out even though it had clearly come off his feet and then at the last minute tried to clear it and stuck it behind just little moments but I do honestly think that as soon as Tuchel made the last batch of subs and once England went into extra time they just seemed to have a spring in their step they were fresher and like Michael said they were going to win the game Just on Harland this is the first time in the whole of Norway's World Cup run from the qualifiers onwards that he hasn't scored so he scored in each qualifier I think he got 16 and 8 and then he scored in each appearance in this tournament he missed the France game which they lost and Norway have won every single game along that run so whenever he scores Norway win all across the qualifiers that's 23 goals in 13 games and then the one time he doesn't score is today There you go So England doing it.

21:35Once again, they stopped that run for Mexico. They stopped that run for Norway. Once Thomas Tuchel's got himself back to the hotel and had a nice cold glass of water. Do you think there are lots of things for him to be happy about, actually, from this performance, Michael? I'm not sure there's that much they can take into the next game, to be honest. I don't think they did a lot well. I think there is a good vibe. There is a good spirit in the team. And I think that is what you can take from the last two performances, with the altitude in Mexico, with the humidity here, that's been really, really difficult, I think, back-to-back as well.

22:11They've also done an incredible amount of travelling. I think we've had a couple of people who've crunched the numbers on the Athletic, and they've done so much more air miles than almost any other team. Now, in part, that is their own decision, because they've chosen to go back to their base in Kansas City between every game. They could have flown directly between matches. But I think it has been tiring. The good news for them is that, well, two bits of good news. One is that Argentina had extra time as well, so they will probably be tired themselves. And second, the game at Atlanta is in an air-conditioned stadium, which I think will be much more to their liking.

22:49But yeah, in a footballing sense, with the exception of the fact that Bellingham is having a fantastic tournament, as Tim mentions, probably up there with anything we've seen from an England player, I don't know what there is really to take from this. it was a pretty scrappy performance that they won because they've got a deeper squad than Norway and when you're playing a country with a population of three or four million that's that's just going to happen really no way with your perspective this is a tournament team and they're finding a way to get it done and possibly you might say that Bellingham's feisty response because it was feisty to Thomas Ducal first of all saying whatever and then saying maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about in so many words he doesn't know what's really weird about him though and I was saying this they're going to write this in the newsletter tomorrow because a lot of American readers the newsletter he's quite a polarising guy Billingham he's quite polarised opinions about him in the UK and it might surprise people to hear that there was any sort of debate about whether he should come to the World Cup that's what Holland said Holland said after the game he's like he said I don't know why he's criticised right and they had one embrace former Borussia Dortmund teammates the point I was going to make was that kind of abrasiveness that kind of determination, that unwillingness to back down even to your own manager and defend your teammates, it's a great thing to have.

24:05Yeah, but that's also probably why he was dropped last October and why his players are in doubt. Because he's a great book, Tuchel wants to be the main man and he's fallen out with, I'm not saying he's fallen out with Bellingham, but maybe he has. He's fallen out with players countless times before. I'll say about Tuchel, not to interrupt you, sorry, but I feel like his response, and he did table where he said, I'm a coach and this is what I saw. He just didn't read the room that was an opportunity to be like we were warriors today like these these are lions and all these things and he just went way too textbook because they did they don't have to fight again you know it was a bit you know there was some really good camos we haven't mentioned Jed Spencer I thought it was great the energy he brought just when England needed it Dan Byrne winning it again with the last header of the whole game you know and Elliot Anderson was probably their best player yeah he read that rebound off the spider camp better than anybody Michael, anyone else we should mention or would you like to give us a last thought before we let you go to the prospects of England and Argentina next Wednesday?

25:07My last thought would be for Norway, actually. I thought they got a bit unlucky with the spider thing and with the disallowed goal, which I think was a disallowed goal, but I think it's not impossible to imagine another ref or video assistant referee given that afterwards their players in the mix zone and Solbach in the press conference just incredibly dignified we're like we're not going to get hung up upon this we got a couple of breaks against Brazil and we didn't get the breaks today and I don't know I just think they've they've just conducted themselves with with a lot of dignity and come off really well I think everyone will go away thinking Norway's uh yeah a really good team and I don't know I don't know if this is taking things too far but whenever country does well at the World Cup I'm like oh I'd really like to go and visit that country I've never been to Norway so maybe you know once I've once I've ticked off Cape Verde maybe Norway will be next on my list but yeah fair play to them they were really like just respectful after full time and I think that's nice I think it's a good way to go out basically excellent it's probably part of the attitude which has taken them this far as well Michael it's been lovely having you with us are you sticking around in the tournament I'm not I'm back home back home tomorrow I'll be watching from my local pub or whatever on Wednesday night.

26:25So looking forward to that. Good Lord. All right. Best of luck then with your travels and many thanks for being with us and we'll catch up with you soon. Nice one. Thanks, everyone. Michael Cox. No way. They've been great, haven't they? And they're fans. Yeah. Again, I feel like I'm a stick in the mud, really. And my kids would say that I definitely am. But on popular opinion, I'm a bit sick of the rule. Please see the back of the row It got annoying and repetitive quickly But as a team it's been great And they've been more than just Haaland as well I think without Haaland they don't go as far As they have in the tournament But like I said about Cape Verde, Norway can definitely come again Next up for England It is Argentina We'll go on to Argentina's performance Against Switzerland on Saturday next

27:23I'm Paul Tenorio. I cover soccer for The Athletic. And I'm Amy Lawrence. I cover football for The Athletic. Whatever you call it, the biggest competition in the sport is happening right now. And The Athletic's World Cup coverage has everything you need to follow the tournament. There's 48 countries taking part from the tiny island of Curacao to the five-time champions Brazil. Even if you don't know your offside from your onside, If you're eager to know more about the teams, the matches, all the stories on and off the pitch, we've got you sorted. Maybe you're the kind of person who's already up early every weekend, waking the neighbors when your favorite club scores.

27:58We'll make sure you get equipped with more information, more insight than anyone you know. We've got more than 70 obsessive reporters on the ground covering the ins and outs from every game. I almost forgot to mention the best part, Amy. Free access to the Athletics World Cup coverage in our app. Download the Athletic app and see you there.

28:21Argentina booked their semifinal place late on Saturday with a 3-1 victory over Switzerland. It's a tight game, this. What to make of Argentina? Can that be my question? Are they, tournament team per excellence, storing up a really good performance for when they really need it, or are they just not very good and haven't really come up against anyone proper yet? I think we're seeing the team that Argentina is. They're a team that sometimes collectively don't look great, and they leave their opponents, they give their opponents a lot of opportunities, and they're led by this individual quality that not a lot of other teams have.

29:01So you can go 115 minutes against Argentina, and you can still lose because one player, and it may not be Messi. In this case, it was Julian Alvarez who has done this before for Atletico Madrid. 20 goals for them, scored a very similar goal in the Champions League against Real Madrid, almost from the same spot against a very good goalkeeper. So you have to really put it where those spiders are hanging out in the net. And so, again, I don't think we've seen the performance from Argentina yet. But do you think there is one there? Potentially. But again, how much more energy do they have? Their legs are going.

29:35Right. They're facing better teams now. Now they're facing the best team that they'll have faced at this World Cup in England. We talked to Michael Cox. They're a very deep England side, much deeper than I would say Argentina is. And so, yes, on paper, I think there are a lot of things that tell you that this game could be tight, but we just don't know because Argentina is so unpredictable at times in terms of their quality. Or are they the most predictable team out there? Because since 2019, they haven't lost a knockout game in Copa America or World Cup. Since 2019, they always find a way. What do you think, Phil?

30:10I don't think they do have a big performance in them. And goals change the narrative, really, don't they? I think they got out of jail in quite a big way against Egypt. They were very lucky tonight, I thought, in that the game had swung against them in quite big fashion when Mbolo got sent off, which we're obviously going to speak about, the second yellow card that he got. So that let them dominate the game from there on. And again, late goal from Alvarez has dragged them through. Not great against Cape Verde. I think if any of those games go against them, which they quite could easily have done and probably deserve to in the Egypt game, we would be saying they just are not the standard that you need to be.

30:49I don't see tournament winners in Argentina at all. I think it's going to come from the other three teams. But they may not play well, but they do score the goals. When you say they get out of jail, they got themselves out of jail. They haven't yet played anybody good, though, have they? Not seriously good. There's a word in Spanish that is always attributed to Argentina, and it's called hierarchia. It is basically an intangible. You can't even, like, there isn't a great definition for it. Perhaps pedigree is the best way. But that is what they have. They have this championship pedigree, this willingness to compete until the final minute.

31:22If they're not dead, they're not dead. And that's the best way to describe this team. Remember, before 2019, Argentina was not a winning side. And now this team, all they know is winning. These players, these particular players that are on the pitch, all they know is how to win. And so that's what makes this team still potentially a repeat World Cup winner. You ask, have they got a big performance in them and can they win the tournament? I think both are true. I don't think they have got a big performance in them, but I still think they can win the World Cup. They've got through so many games under the same manager and with similar players.

31:58It's, you know, Copa America, six games in 21, another six games in 24, seven games at the last World Cup, six so far in this one. You know, only one defeat to Saudi Arabia in the group stage. But otherwise, I think it's four penalty shootout wins. It's three after extra time wins. It's this muscle memory. And you can just see it on the pitch that they know how to grind that game. They know how to produce the one-off special moment to win it. And they can just keep the ball until the final whistle. You know, it's that muscle memory every turn. It's extraordinary. Mind you, Mexico had never lost a home game in 13 years until they met a certain England.

32:31So let's go back through the goals, though. It was Alexis McAllister who leapt above the Swiss defenders early on to head home Lionel Messi's corner. That was Messi's 10th World Cup assist. Remarkably, all 10 have been for different players. It also means that he's now the sole holder of the World Cup assist record, one ahead of Fritz Walter. You had a point to make on this, I think, Felipe. Well, I think we saw the goal happen. You're like, how did Alexis McAllister jump and win this header? And so immediately after the goal, there's a shot of the Argentina bench, and Scaloni and several other assistants are hugging Walter Samuel.

33:10You know Walter Samuel. The wall. Oh, yeah, exactly. The Inter Milan bully defender, such a great player. He's one of the top assistants for Scaloni, and one of his main responsibilities is set pieces, attacking and defending set pieces. So what was the technique here, apart from getting Leo Messi to take the corner? So I had to, exactly. I think you can, it's a limitless book of possibilities when you have Leo Messi as your corner kick taker or your set-piece taker. As the game went on, I looked at every corner kick. Everything was going to the near post. Everything was going to the near post.

33:44And it wasn't for Cristiano Romero. It was either McAllister, Paredes, Enzo Fernandez was getting on some of the corner kicks at the near post. So clearly they saw something. Don't put it at the six-yard box. That's where the Swiss will really swallow those centers, those services. Go near post. So clearly they had that plan. I don't know if it was going to be as perfect, but when you have Messi, everything is about precision. There you go. So Argentina had the lead, and this was something new. They sat back a bit, and they gave possession to their opponent, and Switzerland came back into the…

34:19I was trying Michael Cox has written about this. He called it the game state problem that they have, Argentina, that they get ahead. But rather than then going for the throat and giving themselves a canter of an evening, it all starts to regress a little bit. I don't know whether it's complacency or whether they're just comfortable, but they allow the opposition to get rhythm, which is exactly what happened with Switzerland again. Bit of a trend. Dan and Doyle with the finish. Yeah, it was a great goal. And it was coming. There was a spell of about five, ten minutes of pressure and the clock was ticking towards the end of quarter three.

34:51And we were saying the hydration break is going to kill this momentum. It was their best spell of the match. And Dan and Doy and Briel and Bolo were really finding, I mean, this is something for England to take hold of, in that sort of direct one-twos, finding little pockets of space, combination playing around the box. And Argentina didn't handle it all too well, to be honest. And Dan and Doy was at the sort of forefront of this. Nottingham Forest fans, kind of in the manner that Newcastle fans watching Joanne Wisser in this tournament, would be kind of wondering where on earth was this player last season because he did very little for Forrest and was sort of in and out of the team.

35:26But he played a gorgeous one-two, sauntered his way into the box and then a great finish for one-all. And the hydration break still doesn't come and you're kind of thinking this is Switzerland's game here and then the red card comes and changes everything. Right. And this is also not something new. Argentina embroiled in a refereeing controversy but we feel that the right decision was made. Obrell Mbolo apparently is fouled by Leandro Paredes. Paredes gets a yellow card and then VAR step in and say, no, there was no kick from Paredes. Mbolo actually dived. He gets a second yellow card and he's off.

36:03It was deja vu from the Paraguay-US game, where Miguel Maron was the first player ever to be yellow carded for mistaken identity, what they call mistaken identity. Very similar, he takes a dive. Tim Ream, the defender, was there. Tim Ream gets yellow carded by the referee. And then VAR steps in and reverses everything. Miguel Amarón gets yellow. This is the same thing. It looked like a foul in real time from Leandro Paredes. But you watched the replay, and it was very obvious that Mbolo just stuck his leg out and took a dive. And so then you reverse the yellow. No yellow for Paredes. Second yellow for Mbolo.

36:42And it was, as Tim said, it was a total game changer. A complete game changer. At that point, you said, how can Argentina not possibly come out of this game with a victory when they're playing against 10 men? He was absolutely devastated. I can't remember seeing a reaction like that. He was... I think that's guilt. Yeah, I think it was. I think he started out angry, but then as time went on, and as he went off the pitch, we're looking at a picture of him now in floods of tears. I think he realised, well, it was a really strange area in the pitch to do that. And it was a clear dive. There was no doubt about it.

37:13I think, though, a lot of people, me included are confused about the application of this rule it seems to be used quite liberally or it's not totally clear when it's going to be employed and also they need to rename it though because people think of mistaken identity as jack has been booked for a foul but actually it was a kanji um or a kanji's been booked for a foul but actually it was in bolo whereas what we're seeing here is it's um opposition player on opposition player and the yellow card is effectively being switched so that would be that would be a help would be to change the name i think but exactly when it's supposed to be employed and whether it's been employed according to the letter of the law at the moment.

37:48I don't think anybody's totally sure about that. Okay. It can be tough to break down a team with 10 men and that's the way that Switzerland were playing until 112 minutes into the second period of extra time. We were expecting penalties by this point and England fans watching would have been thinking, well, if Argentina can't break down a 10-man Switzerland, then how are they going to get through the three Lions rear guard? However, at that point, Argentina did break down or break through and with an absolute stunner from Julian Alvarez. I guess it was sort of inevitable that it had to happen this way because they didn't look like trouble in them.

38:23They were so one-paced. Switzerland were pretty comfortable, to be honest. So, yeah, Alvarez, it's a heck of a strike. The ball just sits up. It's like a couple of inches off the floor just as he's swinging his leg back and then he just puts it right through, right into the top corner. I mean, it's unsavable. and just sets off sheer pandemonium. You know, subs on, coaches on. It was a great moment, great goal, great moment. Before this moment, Julian Alvarez's moment was when he's in the mix zone and he essentially says, I want to go to Barcelona. I mean, what a tournament for this guy. And again, this was, to me, it's vintage Julian Alvarez.

39:04Like, you put him in that position, you get him on his right foot with the chance to curl it to the far post, and he can hit that. He can hit it from a dead ball. He can hit it to Tim's point. It was almost like the ball was on a tee, like a golf tee. And he just hit it so sweetly. And to beat the Swiss goalkeeper, you had to have a perfect shot. And that was as perfect as it gets. He's never wildly impressive, Alvarez, in an Argentina shot. Love him for Atletico. But he's almost like a finesse of Julian Dix when you put him in an Argentina top. and it's the first time in a long time that I've actually seen him do something that has made me sit up and go, wow, that is actual Alvarez doing what Alvarez does.

39:47Kind of strange, but I saw Felipe's beloved Colombia lose to Switzerland in Vancouver and the one thing that, and I know Akanji's penalty was dreadful, but the one thing that Yakin had absolutely nailed was the shootout. The way he managed the huddle beforehand and the energy in the huddle, I wrote about it afterwards, you could tell that Switzerland knew they had it, They knew they were going to win that shootout or they were super confident they were going to win it. So that is a mega, mega goal from Alvarez because I think Argentina would have been in... Swiss goalkeeper is excellent. I think they'd have been in all sorts of trouble if that had gone to penalties.

40:19As it turned out, they added another one from Lautaro Martinez and were able to put the game to bed and themselves too because they must have been absolutely tuckered out after that. Some very ageing legs in there and they've had 120 minutes twice in the space of eight days plus that intense game with Egypt in between. England, Tim, England. I mean, yeah, first meeting in 21 years, I think. These don't come around very often. So pre-Messi, England haven't played Messi's Argentina. Yeah, I think Stuart Downing was the star of the show that day in Geneva before passing the torch on to Messi. Yeah, it was just a series of World Cup classics going back many years.

41:02in fact, we were talking about the 1966 quarterfinal today on the day that the Argentina Great Rattan has suddenly passed away, which is very coincidental. And yeah, there was obviously Beckham redemption in 2002 after Beckham's red in 98, hand of God. I think that's all. Exactly, yeah. So, I mean, it's, I don't know, from my point of view, it's the perfect semi-final lineup. I think, you know, France v. Spain, you know, irresistible force, immovable objects, whatever. And then England, Argentina, it's almost as good as it gets. I think most people around the world would maybe say Brazil, Argentina would top that and you could maybe put Germany in there, but that's just quibbling.

41:42It's pretty much as good as it gets for a semi-final lineup. Tim, guess who would not say it's Argentina, Brazil is the better matchup? The Argentines. They feel that their most, I think, hate-filled rivalry is against England. Well, the chant to that at full time was if you're not jumping, if you're not bouncing, you're an Englishman. That's what they're singing afterwards. Right, yeah. I mean, obviously, there's an armed conflict involved here, but when I spoke, we did a big story, a big project with The Athletic where we spoke to fan groups of all 48 teams and I had the privilege of speaking with a big Argentina fan group and they told me straight up, like, yes, when we play Brazil, we want to beat Brazil, but one of them said, but I've gone to Copacabana so many times, I kind of like it, It's such a fun place.

42:30When it comes to England, that's the team that we want to beat. That's the team that we hate. Use the word hate because for them, it really comes down to this cultural moment for them that they have not forgotten. Obviously, we recognize the other England-Argentina matches. There are so many issues off the football field as well. I was amazed to read earlier this week that neither Michael Oliver or Anthony Taylor will be allowed to do the final, referee the final, if Argentina get there, specifically because of the Falklands conflict, which I suppose is probably just about recent enough. And as Felipe said, it is still raw in Argentina in particular.

43:08But it does make me wonder how far you would go back with that, like the Spanish Armada or so. I think probably in living memory might be one. Yeah, that seems reasonable, doesn't it? Yeah. Not even the Argentine team can remember that far back. We will talk a little bit more about the last four teams and some of the best bits for Phil and Felipe are going to be departing from Los Angeles after tonight's show in the final part of this edition of Totally at the World Cup next.

43:41Tim saying it's the best possible quartet of teams, France, Spain, England, Argentina. I mean, who's your money on? Phil. well I've been goading Tim all day by telling him that England will beat Argentina and I'll die on that hill I think they absolutely will I can't I can't find why? because I think I think England have younger squad I think they have a slightly deeper squad I think I think Argentina's top individual is better than anybody in the England side but I think between players like Bellingham and Kane and two heels set up as well I think they'll run Argentina hard I think they'll work Argentina far harder than anybody else has to this point.

44:21And I do think there's going to come a point where Argentina get found out messy or no messy. So England in that one. I can't bring myself to not back France because France look like winners all ends up. But I was at Spain, Belgium, and I went to De La Fuente's press conference beforehand and afterwards, and I watched them play. And the confidence of the Spanish has to be kind of felt to be believed. They're absolutely oozing it. And he's really interesting, actually, De La Fuente, because in comparison to Tuchel today, you know, his comments after the game, Dele Fuente does this thing where he makes the players feel a million dollars all the time.

44:57Everything he says is kind of, he's not pandering to them and he's not being kind of, you know, he's not being over the top with them, but he manages them really well. He was quoting Marcus Aurelius and saying, you know, what's bad for the bee is bad for the hive or what's bad for the hive is bad for the bee. I can't remember which way, because I'm not a man of letters. But he was basically saying, I can't have anybody here who's going to cause us a problem. And that was basically a way of saying this group is fantastic and I love them to bits. And then you saw your mouse comments afterwards saying France should be worried about us.

45:29I think they genuinely think that. So I have a sneaky feeling that Spain might just win that. But if you were asking me to bet my mortgage, I would go for France. France, says Phil, with a little bit of an asterisk for Spain. Slight one, yes. Felipe? I mean, again, I'll repeat it, and I don't mean to troll my English friends, but I chose England to win the World Cup back in December. I'm going to stick with that. I think, obviously, they can beat Argentina. And I think, to be very tactical here, I really do think it's going to come down to the strengths and weaknesses of the two teams. For me, one of England's strengths are their wingers and the depth they have on the flanks.

46:07And one of the biggest weaknesses that Argentina has right now are their fullbacks, their 1v1 ability there. That's where you can really get after Argentina. I think that's something that England will do well. But then England against France or Spain? I really agree with Phil. I've seen Spain up close. I've been in press conferences with Luis de Fuente. When he's done talking, you feel like, sign me up, coach. I will do whatever you say. He one time said, after they drew against Cabo Verde, he called it tragic to question these players because they had not lost in, I think now it's 35 matches or more, and that they're the European champions.

46:43So the confidence is there, but the quality that France has, I can't pick against them. I think they'll be in the final. I remember last summer we had the Club World Cup, almost as big as the World Cup, and there was a team from France who looked absolutely unstoppable, Paris Saint-Germain, but they got to the final, and all of a sudden you had a team from England that stopped them, what was it, 4-0? Yeah, it was pretty ugly. Yeah. I mean, in England-France final, that's really tasty. I think England would have some opportunities there, just from an individual quality. I mean, that's the thing.

47:20England have Kane and Bellingham. That can do it for you. And when those players are performing at such a high level, you have a chance. Tim? I think with England, it's the classic England kind of, can they play quick enough? The amount of times we watch an England game, they're moving the ball too slowly, they're being too labored. I think if they get stuck in that route against Argentina, we've seen they don't have the players to pass through the lines because they've left them all at home. You know, it's a Club World Cup or someone like Cole Palmer, you know, or Foden or what's his chops from Palace, Adam Wharton.

47:51They just haven't got those players here. So it's about how fast they play. If they get stuck in a side-to-side passing game, I think Argentina will beat them. But if they are direct, like Filippo says, if they use the wingers, if they're quick and the temperature of the stadium obviously hopefully will help in that regard, then I do think you know I do think they can beat Argentina I was a bit dubious as to whether Gay and Stones could stop Haaland and Cotelab I thought they both did a really good job which bodes well the back four looked a little bit more solid which has been my biggest concern over England the keeper was a bit wobbly but still you know they're getting there and then in the other game I just don't see how you I don't see how you stop France nobody's come close except for Paraguay and we know that Spain aren't going to try and do what Paraguay did I just you know I know that Spain beat them two years ago at the Euros but France are such a different team now.

48:37So France-England again? I think so, yeah. And? Well, let's find out. Let's see. It's about Wednesday night's podcast that one. Yeah. Good point. I think it would be pretty odd if Tuchel wasn't saying to England, the pace of this game has got to be really high. If it's slow, you're inviting Messi to do exactly what Messi is doing, which is to... That amazing piece that was done earlier this week of him, it wasn't so much actually the 64 % of walking on the pitch, it was the fact that when you boiled it down, he was sprinting something like 0.8 % of the time he basically never ever sprints he does run from time to time, not very often but he just never sprints so if it's a really slow tempo game you're basically saying to him you do your thing you do what you do and I think that is the key to getting Messi at 38-39 is you've got to be all over him and you've got to make him play your game Alright, well as Tim says we've got Tuesday and Wednesday to discuss what's coming up at the weekend next weekend when the World Cup final will be taking place but Phil and Felipe, you're heading off.

49:33Felipe, you're heading to... I'll be in Atlanta. I'll be there for the semifinal. You're going to be at England-Argentina. Yes, sir. I'll be there. Wow. I mean, I can't even begin to imagine what the split is going to be like between Argentina fans and England fans in the same place. I mean, that's going to be a monumental moment for the city of Atlanta. I think it'll be... Of the two semifinals, I think that's the juicier one, honestly. Is it a good host city? It's a great host city, yeah. It's his hometown. Yeah, I've been there 15 years. It's a great city. It's a downtown stadium. The fans love it.

50:06It's great. It's easy to get to, and it's an incredible stadium. It's like a spaceship. So the setting is perfect. All right, excellent. Phil, what are you going to miss? What am I going to miss? More than anything, even though I've been in LA for five weeks, I'm going to miss Vancouver, where I went for a couple of nights. That is a perfect World Cup host city as well. I think it's fair to say that LA is a little bit too disparate and big. and for fans to like congregate you know it doesn't really have a center but the smoothies well i'll come back to you on that yeah once i once i've spent 21 tomorrow but vancouver nice tight center loads of colombians i mean tens of thousands of colombians they turned up the team didn't turn up luis diaz's engine had gone dry unfortunately and it never came to anything but that was terrific um and it's been great being on totally as well fantastic fantastic thank you we We've really enjoyed having you on.

50:57Felipe, you're heading off as well, but you will be covering the game on Wednesday. Is there a special memory that you leave us with? Yes. You know, I think the camaraderie of this crew, including the production, I feel it in my heart. I'm honored to have been part of this. I think I won over some of the readers and the listeners and the audience here, which I think is a huge moment for me in my career. I promise I'll say Bellingham correctly. I won't always sound like I'm Gemini. I think I said Bellingham and I was not, I was, I was ridiculed, but Bellingham, Bellingham. But you know what? My, my core memory is breaking every public drinking law in Santa Monica with you and with Tom and with our producer, Jesse.

51:44We took a cooler to the beach thinking we could just like go there like we were in Europe or South America or something. But that was a great night. That night in Santa Monica was really fun. Oh, good. Yeah. All right. There you go. Tim you're sticking around Going to hang around the pool for a couple of days Alright excellent We'll still be here next week And hopefully you'll be joining us too We'll have a couple of days off because the World Cup pauses To get everything set for the semi-finals We'll be back Tuesday evening Our time Wednesday morning or thereafter For you with the reaction To France Spain Do hope you'll be joining us for that For now it's many many thanks and safe travels to Phil And to Felipe To Tim see you next week and production crew too.

52:25Hopefully see you as well. For now, it's goodbye.