Bellingham shines in dramatic Clasico as Juve show Tudor the door

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30on Lens and as you were in Ligue 1, a bit of Jamie Vardy and handbags and Big Macs in Napoli, Inter 2, in this Totally Football Show.

0:44Monday the 27th of October. Hey, listener. It's a lonely old studio today. Just myself and James Horncastle here. Hi, James. It's like when we used to do stuff on TNT. Yeah. Yeah, but with more viewers. Yes, indeed. Bigger audience. Yeah. Paul Belus is on the line from Catalonia. I am, I am. Yeah, straight back from Madrid. From the Classico. Seb's with us too. Seb Stafford-Blur. Hello, Jimbo. Nice to see you, Seb. And not saying there's much to see in Ligue 1, but Jules, you've gone on holiday. That's right. It's half-term for the kids, you know, so you need to get them entertained. All right.

1:28Where did you join us from, Jules? from Fuerteventura, not far from Paul Belus. Well, I mean, in a way, you're closer to Africa than to Barcelona. True, but it's still your own country. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. Okay, what's the temperature, Jules? It's very hot. It's very nice. I know there's a storm in Europe, in Western Europe and stuff like that, but here no storm is beautiful. Even though you're in Spain and close to yes in the same your own microclimate yeah excellent well that's lovely uh a well-earned break jules because you work so very very hard thank you paul you're not going to get your winter sun break this year are you because they called off the miami trip exactly no no i'm not having a break um if i hadn't enough with covering barcelona 24 7 just started a new layer of trying to go to Miami, saying that they are going to Miami and then out of the blue cancelling the game in Miami.

2:29There's no Nando's in Miami, Paul. Yeah, that's a shame. It's Popeyes for you. I've earned this sort of reputation of loving Nando's and this sort of restaurant, right? That's just not me. I mean, last week, one of my moments of the week was going to possibly the best spot for snails in Barcelona. Do you like snails? Ah. Yeah, so I'm going to tell you. Like, if you ever come to Barcelona, let me know. We are going to go there. That's one of Pep Guardiola's favorite spots in town. And you are going to see that they have a reputation beyond none of them Popeyes. Okay. What's the name of the place, Paul?

3:08I'm not sure if I should say it. Keep it to yourself. Gatekeep. Gatekeep, Paul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure if they really want it to, to be honest. Right. Okay. Wow. What did we come here to talk about? Moment of the week. Thanks, Paul. Oh, but you'll tell us a bit more about that whole cancelling the Barcelona, Villareal in Miami and whether there was a similar kind of King's Road style moment as we saw with the Super League when all the urchins were out there and it forced the climb down and that. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, moment of the week. You say one is having snails in Barcelona. Do you have a second for us?

3:46Yeah, no. A second one I have to stick with the Clásico, don't I? I think that I have to point out the final whistle at the Clásico and everything that happened after that, all the mess that unfolded with Lamin-Germal, the words that he had been saying throughout the week, how Real Madrid took on this. And yeah, the scenes that are, in my opinion, are going to keep building up to create one of those Clásico atmospheres that we're probably missing in the last few years, maybe. But yeah, from now on, it's going to be heated on here in Spain and in the Spain national team as well, because what happened between Laminia Mal and Carvajal, two players that shared the left-hand side in 2024 when Spain won the Euros.

4:26Let's see how it unfolds for the next World Cup. But yeah, a bit of a spice never hurt anyone. So true. Seb, how spicy was your weekend and what's the bit you want to cite? Medium hot? Yeah, it's not plain. I'm still reeling from that accusation. I think I've forgotten about that. No, I'm going to go to the Zvajabunziga because over the weekend, Schalke went top after beating Darmstadt 1-0. Miriam Mislic is Schalke. He left Plymouth Hall in the summer. And it was a fourth clean sheet in five games for Loris Karius, who's had a really unlikely renaissance in Gelsenkirchen. He turned up in January as a sort of free agent.

5:06He was brought in as an experienced backup. Won the starting role in February after a brilliant performance against Prussia Mönster. And has been there ever since with a little bit of an injury in the middle. earned a new contract and he's become not talisman it's the wrong word really but kind of an emotional leader and it's fun to see because he's playing very well he's exactly what this side needs and hey uh haven't shalke had it rough since about 2018 i mean 2018 they finished second under donico tedesco and then began their kind of slow swirl of the plug hole went down once got promoted back up went straight back down again haven't really threatened the promotion since but and told the spot for now which is great and the Bundesliga needs Schalke back brilliant so they're doing better now that he's there very much so and he he kind of arrived I mean no one really had any expectation for him because I think he'd since leaving Liverpool in 2020 I think he played around seven competitive games in total which included a really unsuccessful spell on loan at Union Berlin where he arrived and almost instantaneously went to the bench never to return and he was really just supposed to be there to kind of to boost the squad numbers and i think you know what jimbo it takes a hard heart not to wish him well uh given what happened to him um in 2018 so it's um yeah good story indeed so for shaka as well sounds like they were precarious before they were when they were precarious it's an old one now they're just curious yeah he's got a lot of reasons to be confident given he he's you know mr diletta leota you know who is the italian kelly cates or you know gabby logan yeah there you go a little bit of a texture to that story lovely stuff jace how about a moment of the week from you well the podcast medium doesn't lend itself to the hand gesture that lautaro martinez made to antonio conte in napoli inter where he was just kind of clutching his thumb and forefingers together over and over again, provoking Conte.

7:10That gesture was sort of diplomatically translated as he's accusing Antonio Conte of cowardliness. It's kind of like a quivering sphincter, I suppose, James, which was very an interesting thing that Lautaro was doing because Antonio Conte, now the Napoli coach, used to coach Inter, used to coach Inter and Lautaro when they won the league, won the league with them after 10 years, made Lautaro Martinez a champion, had a falling out in the past over a substitution where Conte took him off against Roma, Lautaro kicked a bottle in anger, and Antonio Conte shouted, go on, go on, be the big time, Charlie, be the diva, and all this sort of stuff.

7:51And then there was this kind of reconciliation at the training ground a few days later where the players made a mock boxing ring. Right. Lukaku played Michael Buffer. Right, Lukaku, who Lautaro also doesn't speak to anymore. Yeah, but the thing is, so Lautaro's making this gesture at Conte, suggesting he is soiling himself. The prospect of Denzel Dumfries coming over to him after Conte had shouted at him over a foul on one of the Napoli players. But like, Napoli were 2-1 up at that stage. Inter then lost their heads. Six minutes later, concede the third goal, lose the game 3-1. Affords Conte all this.

8:30I mean, Conte just loved it after the game. But if you are going to... That gesture that Lautaro made could quite easily have been made by Inter's detractors at the end of last season when they lost the title on the final day. They lost 5-0 to Jules' Paris Saint-Germain on the Champions League final. I love Lauti. I will always defend him against these mad Lauti haters. But it was a bit of a crazy moment from him. Martinez shaken, not stirred. But projecting a little bit by the sound of it, interesting to take that. What a goal by Scott McTominay. We'll get on to that. Jules, so many moments, I'm sure, for you there in the Canarian sunshine.

9:13Yeah, but I would pick Alfonso Moreira goal for Lyon on Sunday night at the last minute of the game against Strasbourg to give them a 2-1 win. He's a young winger who they signed from Sporting, but the Sporting beat him really where he played most of last season for only 2 million euros. because Lyon didn't have much money after the text-out debacle. But they had a really good feeling with him.

9:42He just paid them back this week, because he scored against Basel in the Europa League on Thursday night, and then scored a winner against Lian Roussinho, Strasbourg, on Sunday to propel Lyon to second place in the table. yeah behind PSG or what second level with Marseille behind PSG yeah so you've got PSG a point behind them Lens and then Marseille and Lyon so only two points between the top four woof hey Jules woof lovely look forward to hearing more about Liga and all the leagues shortly we're going to begin with La Liga and events of the Bernabeu this is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson part of the Athletic FC podcast network Goal!

10:31Bellingham there with a slightly sociopathic celebration but a goal and an assist for the young Englishman This game had everything, Paul 37 shots, 3 goals scored, 3 more disallowed Penalties given, penalties taken away again Police officers intervened to separate players Crikey, where do you want to begin? I mean, I think it had everything except two teams at the very top of their game. Because I don't think that Real Madrid were brilliant, but Barcelona were worse. I think that starting from the footballing perspective, you could see that Barcelona are physically limited, with a lot of players injured.

11:11We've spoken about this, all the players that they are missing. But Lamin Djamal was not on the mood. Not just on the mood, but just he couldn't make things happen. because he's having this groin injury, which is there's some sort of pain in there that still remains. And he has to learn to deal with it and hope that in the near future it just fades away. And then, yeah, Barcelona's high line is complemented by a front line who cannot really press in the levels that they do when they have the likes of Rafinha up front. Then the defensive line, it has an impact in them because they didn't trust that much all the process.

11:45And then if you have in front a Real Madrid side that despite not being really good, they have Mbappe, Bellingham, who had his best game of decision, in my opinion. And just being a junior, that's a lot to deal with. So that ended up with Madrid having a game that was way more favourable for them. I think that Barca were lucky just to lose by one goal. They were actually in a position to get a really cheap draw in the last minute of the game. But yeah, in the end of a game, as I was saying, I think that the main takeout is the atmosphere that is going to keep building up, the tension around Lamin-Yamal that we're going to discuss now and everything that will unfold from now on in La Liga.

12:24OK, it's tension that Lamin himself had stoked in the build-up to the game, Paul. Yeah, exactly. If we go to the start of it, on Thursday, Lamin-Yamal went to the Kings League, which is a seven-side football league created by Gerard Piqué. Lamin-Yamal owns the team in that sort of competition and he went to a preview event of the weekend action and in there there were some sort of bar banter, if you want to call it that way. Yeah, and he went possibly a step a bit too far about Real Madrid, suggesting that they have been robbing over the past few years and that they are a team that, yeah, have this sort of stealing habits in their ID.

13:06And then he bragged again about having scored last season at the Bernabeu, beating them four times and 4-0 at the Bernabeu last season. So you could tell at the Santiago Bernabeu that Xavi Alonso and all the Madrid players have basically plastered all those words like all over the stadium and the rushing room or whatever and used that as fuel just to get back to Barcelona after a tough last season for them. So there was beef at the end between Vinny Junior and Jamal and then his Spain teammates as well. Carvajal, yeah. So basically when the final whistle was blown, Laminya Mal went to Carvajal.

13:40They shook hands, but you could see that Carvajal really wanted to send him a message and he basically made the gesture with his hands of speaking too much, basically with his fingertips. Courtois as well was getting involved? Yeah, that's basically what happened because Lamin-Yamal told Karbakhalov, then Kamavinga stepped in to try to separate Lamin-Yamal. Courtois jumped in and just reproached Lamin-Yamal and then the ambush was set. Marc Casado tried to pull Lamin-Yamal away and then Vinny Jr. came in and he told Lamin-Yamal something as well. La Minha Mal invited him to go to the tunnel and just to have a lovely chat about it.

14:18But then it was Rafinha who stepped in and stopped his Brazil national team teammate, Vinicius. And yeah, it all faded away as La Minha Mal finally found the way to the dressing room. And then Real Madrid players celebrated the win as if they saw win sort of a trophy, jumping on the pitch of the Santiago Bernal, which is a picture that has stayed in the minds of all the Barca players. OK. It is their first Clásico win in, what, five attempts? It's the first Clásico win since Flick to Coba. So it's the first loss of Flick against Real Madrid. It also put some five points clear, Real Madrid, at the top of the table.

14:53Nine wins and one defeat for Xavi Alonso's side so far this season. James, you saw them last Wednesday, was it Wednesday? Yeah, when they beat Juve. Yeah. And, look, I mean, Juve had chances to either come away with a draw. Courtois made an amazing save in a 1v1 against Vlajevic but if you look at all the stats of that game how many shots Madrid and chances that they created the double save from Di Gregorio as well the thing that interested me Paul was how much Xavi Alonso is integrating Arda Gouler into this team, playing him in midfield talking about him in the same way he talked about Florian Wurtz when he was at Leverkusen you know how much joy Goula gets from the game how he's a proper baller he's always looking to play forward he's always looking to take someone on and then the other thing is what a week for Bellingham I mean James touched upon the assist and the goal but he got the only goal as well against Juve in that 1-0 win feels like he's started to turn his season around as well yeah let's start for Arthur Goula in a way he's sort of the teacher's pet in that team he embodies a lot of what Xavi Alonso tries to do with this Madrid compared to what they were with Ancelotti.

16:09This sort of switch of mentality, trying to play in a more high-pressing, ball-dominating, ball-possession-oriented team. And Arda Guller is really good at that. He has the right attitude and he just does anything that Xavi Alonso asks him. The thing that intrigues me the more is the relationship of Xavi Alonso with the main start, because I'm sure that you saw when he took Benetius off the pitch, sort of tantrum that Benetius left in the middle of the pitch towards his manager for the fact that he was souped off for another time. He's been souped off many times this season. I'm leaving this club, no?

16:44Wasn't he saying, I'm leaving this club? Yeah, yeah, he left the tantrum, which is something that I'm sure that if you tell Florentino, he'd be happy if an offer of, let's say, 150 million is put on the table. It's a conversation that, yeah, Benetius has not been ready to entertain. and he has not extended his contract yet. So I don't think that this is a measure just to make him understand that he could leave the club. I don't think so. But I mean, if he leaves the club, I think that a lot of senior people in Madrid won't be too angry. So yeah, Arda Gulleri is the best example of the Xavi Alonso management.

17:18But on the other hand, there's like the big egos that I have figured out about them and how are they coping with Xavi Alonso's demands. And then touching on Bellingham. Yeah, a show of character that I think that is sort of unique, Bellingham, on that. Because he struggled over the last month with Madrid when he reappeared against Atletico de Madrid. He was bad at the game, then he was dropped by Xavi Alonso. He was not happy about that. And now he's back at the starting line-up and he's made a case for Xavi Alonso to make sure that he's included in the next line-up because he's at that level again.

17:49Excellent. Barcelona trailing Real Madrid now by five points. Two points behind Barcelona in third are Villarreal, who beat Valencia 2-0. On Saturday, Valencia Derby. And the Valencia Derby is so true. Yeah, yeah. And quite tense for the Valencia home fan base. Carlos Corberan, the manager, was booted, and the team were booted and whistled at the end of the game. I think that Villarreal were a bit lucky to score the first goal, but from then it was complete dominance from them. And yeah, Valencia navigating through, again, tough moments. Let's see if Corberan stays for long, if results don't change in the near future.

18:26But yeah, the fans are like in the mood for some action. I see, I see. Villarreal fans, in the meantime, have cancelled their plans along with you to Miami. So what was the reaction there? And what was the thing that triggered the decision not to hold Villarreal Barcelona in Miami? Yeah, so basically what triggered the event and the cancellation of the game, it took place on Tuesday. it was the promoters in the US that have an agreement with La Liga to set up these sort of games abroad, which basically told La Liga that they didn't see a feasible timescale to make this game happen, to sell tickets, to make all the logistics and everything happening.

19:06But why would they suddenly say that now, having had this plan in place? It felt a little bit like an excuse. They also mentioned the unhappiness in Spain as being a factor. I was wondering if that 15-second delay last weekend actually proved decisive. I don't think my perception and the people I've been speaking with, I don't think that this was the major decision to pull the trigger. I think it's been more of an optics way of selling it, which is fine. In a way, the way that it's been framed here in Spain is that Javier Tebas, La Liga's president, has lost a battle against Florentino, who was really against having this happening.

19:42Florentino and Tebas have a long standing battle between them. And this was a Tebas project. This was something that he wanted to have. And Real Madrid were not involved on that and will never be involved as long as Tebas is in there. And Florentino is at Real Madrid. But yeah, the chit-chat around Spain is that Tebas saw an option of the government stepping up and higher institutions are stepping up and not allowing him to go through. So having the promoters also telling him that they were just not able to pull it off, it goes like in a scenario where Tebas saw himself with no other option than actually call it off.

20:17Because deep down, at the end of the day, it was Tebas who took the executive decision to cancel the Miami game. Paul, is Florentino's opposition based on it being Tebas's idea or is it ideological? No, I think it's a bit of business side, like the opposition that he has towards Tebas, not that ideological. I think it's more like Tebas looking for Lalique's interest and Florentino trying to boost Real Madrid. Tebas has a special character as well. He's a bit of a loud mouth. Yes, he does. As we all know. And it's not the sort of character that you envisage Florentino Perez enjoying to work with.

20:54He's more of a silent... But yeah, the tension has been like long standing between them two. And now, at this point of life, it has trespassed a point where Florentino is not apt to allow Javier Tebas to go on his own way in any project that he takes on. I see. Valencia, you mentioned in some trouble there, Dan, in 18th. The two teams below them, Oviedo and Girona, Girona rather, met this Saturday and had an exciting 3-3 draw. Yeah, yeah, really mad game. Oviedo got in front, got a two-goal lead. They were winning by two goals by the second half, but Girona just somehow turned it around. Ounahi, just signed from Olympique de Marseille, was brilliant.

21:34I love Ounahi. I don't know what happened at Marseille with him, but I think that he's far more of a talented player to play by La Liga's bottom side. And then Christian Estuani, the best player in Giroudna's history, scored two penalties as well to help Giroudna turn it around. But in the last switch of the game, last minute of the game, Obieto scored a late goal to equalise the game. Both teams are at the bottom of the table, so not looking good for either of them. let's see how they evolve although it's pretty tight down the bottom the bottom six are actually separated by only two points at the moment Levante, Mallorca, Real Sociedad Valencia and the aforementioned Oviedo and Girona alright excellent, Monday night it's going to be Real Betis taking on Atletico Madrid big game, yeah that's 5th against 6th we're currently recording this on Monday afternoon so there's not much we can say about that but Paul Magnificent stuff.

22:28Anything else from the games that have been played we should know? I would highlight possibly Espanyol as well because they are fourth. The mood around the club is really good since the new ownership led by Alan Pace, the American investor who is on top of Burnley as well, bought the club. And yeah, they won at home against Elche, fourth in the table. I think that it's happened only once in history that Espanyol finished the season ahead of Barcelona. I don't envisage this as a very likely possibility, but the mood at Espanyol now is really good. The stadium is full every week they play at home and they have a team that is really functioning.

23:05Wow, they're two points behind at the moment. Sorry, I was just digesting that. Espanyol above Barcelona at the end of the season. No, I mean, I'm not saying that this is going to happen, but just like after this week's result, I just checked the start and it just happened once in the history of both clubs, which was in the 30s, I think. Okay. Paul, that's amazing. That's amazing. Something to keep an eye on. Jimbo, the big royalist, you know, sort of Castilian, wanting Espanol to sort of be on top of plucky Catalan. Absolutely. Curse those separatists. You've got a full week of, like, not loving Barcelona, in a lot of sense.

23:43Ha! No, I was just mildly put out by some of their antics last week in the Champions League, yes, in a game in which they turned out to be worthy winners. But yeah, Mark Casado getting a fellow professional sent off. I felt there was no need. You did not like that at all, did you? I did not like that. It's true. And I took to... You turned the WhatsApp to a blue. Language I'd never seen before. We'll move on. We'll move on. Paul, thank you so much. Up next, a touch of Ligue 1, Jules.

24:22This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. Jours, Ligue 1, Paris Saint-Germain are back on top, but it's still tight, still tight, of course. What should we know about the weekend in France? Yeah, I mean, change of leadership, as you said, because Marseille were top of the table before this weekend and they had a tricky trip away to Lens. We were doing very well with our friend Pierre Sage on the bench, Stonewise, who we loved when he was at Lyon.

24:59And then obviously he left and then he's back now and he's doing really well. So PSG played first and won away at Brest, 3-0 with two goals from Hashraff Hakimi, who was in amazing form, really. And it's a game that PSG controlled, didn't play that great, but still controlled on the back of their quite incredible win away at Leverkusen in the Champions League on Tuesday night. And then after that, the pressure was on Marseille. And Marseille went on Saturday away at Lens and had pretty much a similar game to the one they lost in midweek in the Champions League against Sporting because they scored first with Mason Greenwood, another goal.

25:31He's eighth of the season in the league. Great. And after that, Benjamin Pavard had another difficult night, let's call it that way, because he scored a non-goal, gave away a penalty and was subbed off after 55 minutes because his game was so bad by Roberto De Zerbi. So a defeat for Marseille, that meant that PSG were back on top. There you go. Lovely stuff from Ashraf Hakimi, but Desiree Dewey is kind of emerging as the man now in Paris. Yeah, he's done well since coming back from that calf injury that he picked up with the national team. Remember that created a lot of, like a mini crisis between PSG and Deschamps and why did Dewey play and why did Dembele play on that day?

26:07in September when they both got those injuries and since Dwayne came back. And I still think that sometimes he tries maybe a little bit too hard dribbling-wise because he's such a great dribbler and has so much talent. I think sometimes he tries to do a bit too much. But when he's on top, as we saw against Leverkusen, he only played 45 minutes, which was outstanding, really. And Seb was in the stadium. And then again, he came on against Brest and scored that lovely third goal, really where you just think there's no way he's going to miss this. It's a great ball by Zaire Emery. It's the 90th minute, but still he goes and finishes with his left foot.

26:42It's just a brilliant goal. And he's in that form now that I think he must be one of the first names for Luis Enrique on the team sheet. Piers Gier in that form now. Ten goals in two matches. Behind them, Lens and then Marseille and Lyon. Weirdly, which is... Jules, is that a big surprise to see Lyon there given their predicament over the year so far? Yeah, I think so. From all the top teams, and to be fair, the top seven right now is what we expected to be at the start of the season. You've got all the big clubs there, including Strasbourg, who we've been saying is doing so well. But Lyon, considering they were in Ligue 2 in June, is probably the one that we didn't expect to be there.

27:21They had to sell a lot of their players. Malik Fofana somehow stayed. They managed to keep him, but not for long because he got sadly injured and went to hospital for what looked like a really bad injury. And it's a bad tackle by Ducoury, who was sent off for Strasbourg and started the Lyon comeback, really. But Fofana is an incredible talent that they should not have kept, but they kept him. But everybody has pretty much left. So it's a young team with hardly no investment in the summer. That is clearly punching above its weight, but it's doing great. And I think Paulo Fonseca deserves a lot of credit for it.

27:53That's their best start for over a decade in Liga. Yeah, absolutely. And again, Fonseca with the more experienced players like Tolisso, Lagnacate, are just doing an excellent job, really. and I think they I don't know how far they will go because they still have top games to play home and away but certainly they look really good they are good in Europa League too and somehow with a very thin squad managed to play for now certainly in the two competitions really well Okay Behind them and Marseille one point further back you've got Lille and Monaco Lille who beat Met 6-1 in high scoring Ligue 1 on Sunday Met's already six points from safety Monaco meanwhile beat Toulouse their first win under Sebastián Pocognoli.

28:37James, do you want to ask? Pogba watch? Paul Pogba watch? Did he play, Jules? No, but he trains now. Oh, yeah? So this is a good... Yeah, it's another good step, James, in the right direction of seeing Paul Pogba on the pitch again. First win for Pogba not the best of performances, certainly not as good as the one we saw against Spurs on Wednesday night where they really deserved to win that game and just somehow could not score. But we're very good, I thought, for that draw against Spurs. and now you don't play as well maybe, but you get your first win. It's one draw and two draws if you count the Champions League and one win for Pocognoli.

29:11It starts to get his ideas in place. Yeah, so that was really good. And what did you mention? Oh yeah, the Lille win. 6-1 against Mets. Mets have two points in their first nine games in Ligue 1, which is a bit like what Wolves do. Yeah, no wins still for them and it doesn't look good. After that, between the team in 17th and I think 10th, we've got seven teams in two points. So this is good, but Mets are doomed already. Okay. Midweek, you've got action. Jules Nice will be taking on Lille. Fresh from that, 6-1 against Mets. What else is interesting? Oh, Paris FC against Lyon. That could be quite fun.

29:47That's on Wednesday. Yeah, that should be quite fun. Yeah, yeah. PSG go to Lorient and Marseille are home to Angers. So maybe for them, more straightforward. We shall see, Jules. We shall see. You have got a holiday. So enjoy yourself there. I do. Thank you. and just I wanted to mention because it's me against Seb the Women's Nations League semi-finals between Germany and France the second leg is tomorrow on Tuesday Germany won the first leg 1-0 in a game that they bossed and probably should have scored more but they didn't so there's still a bit of hope for Laurent Bonadé and his French team to overturn it in their second leg tomorrow in Caen to qualify for the final Wow nice one Excellent Jules enjoy yourself there in the Atlantic Ocean and we'll catch up with you soon.

30:33Thank you. See you on Monday in the studio.

30:41This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Listener, yourself, James, Seb and me as we pilot this rapidly dwindling podcast towards this inevitable conclusion. Next up, it's a stop at Serie A where, James, plenty of headlines. Probably the biggest one came this very Monday morning in a reversal of historical precedent. This time it was the old lady who axed the Tudor.

31:12Very good, James. Yeah, it was. And probably shouldn't come as a surprise because of the run of games that Juventus have been on. Lost three in a row in all competitions now. I think that they're winless in eight or nine. It's the worst run since the end of Claudio Ranieri's time at the club, sort of 2008. But Juventus, particularly over the last 15 years, rarely would sack a manager in season. This is the earliest they've sacked a manager in a long, long time. It's even earlier than last season, to give it a sense. Yeah, no, I mean, so when I was saying that Juventus just don't sack coaches in season, throughout Andrea Agnelli's time as chairman, he would always say, you know, we do our accounts at the end of the year.

32:00and so even when Pirlo was struggling and people were anticipating that he would get the chop he didn't and then obviously Agnelli resigned in the winter of 2022 and there's just been a lot of volatility you know really since then John Elkan, Andrea Agnelli's cousin basically has delegated the running of the club to people who run some of his other businesses and it's not working And so remember they sacked Max Allegri before the end of the season before last, after he won the Coppa Italia final, which was their last trophy. He had this big altercation with Cristiano Giuntali, the sporting director, who was clearly paving the way to get rid of him and bring in Thiago Motta.

32:47And then Motta comes in, they spend a load of money sacrificing kids who'd come through their academy, the likes of Dean Hoyssen being the most kind of flagrant. a mistake Juventus have made recently in the transfer market. And then they sack Motta in March, bring in Igor Tudor initially as an interim with an option that if he qualifies for the Champions League, he gets the job on a permanent basis. That's what happened. They sack Giuntali in the summer. They brought in Damian Camoli, the general manager, who basically looks at Tudor. He's like, OK, can I get Conte? Can I get Asperini? No. OK, Igor, you're my man.

33:25and yeah here they are in yeah if you look at the table we're still early enough in the season where they're not far away from the champions league places now three points something like that so it's not disastrous and two door would tell you that i've had a terrible run of games yeah that dastardly algorithm in the fixture computer really did for me you know we played inter who we beat dortmund who we drew against and then we've played pretty much everyone milan napoli Real Madrid Como who you know look like a small team but run like a big team so just just let me get through this Lazio game at the weekend and then it gets easier and then they play Lazio they lose and he gets sacked on Monday morning Brutal isn't it who do you think so they've got midweek action there against Udinese looking to score their first goal Juventus in what will then be five games who's going to be in charge for that and who's going to be the who do you think will be stepping up long term so Massimo Brambilla will be in interim charge for that game, maybe even the weekend's game.

34:25He's their next-gen coach, so their Barcelona B or Real Madrid Castilla coach. So he's into the breach. And they've been looking to talk to Luciano Spalletti. Spalletti is available. He's on his Tuscan farmstead with his chicken Bianca Neve and his vines where he makes his... Roberto Mancini's been mentioned as well. Yeah, I mean, Roberto is obviously available, but I think Spalletti is someone who's obviously recently had success within the league and obviously the national team didn't go as he would have liked but I think whoever comes in and Alessandro Del Piero was saying this on Sky Italia on Sunday night whoever comes in the problem goes above them it's about the leadership of the club at executive level and the fact that this Juventus at the moment feels soulless it does not feel like it's got Juventus DNA running through it and as much as there were flaws in Andre Agnelli, particularly towards the end where signs Cristiano Ronaldo, Juventus can't really afford him, COVID comes, all of a sudden you're going from reforming to the Champions League to launching a Super League, pisses off UEFA, you have to quit.

35:36Juventus are missing Andre Agnelli's personal touch and him being in the office every day. you know that winning run that Juventus had for a decade really was set in motion by Andre Agnelli coming into the club and being the chairman and Juventus always when there's not an Agnelli who's hands on Juventus always lose their way right are there any Agnellis floating around that they can put their hands on I mean John Elkan is busy with lots of other things like you know having dinner at the White House dinner at the White House Jeff Bezos over to Turin and that sort of thing. I mean, the interesting thing is there's a board meeting at the beginning of November, which they'll elect a new board.

36:21But what we've seen is this crypto firm, Tether, gradually increase shareholding in Juventus. And that's got fans' attention because how serious are these guys? Are they going to keep buying up shares in Juventus? Juventus have been in the hands of the Agnelli family for more than 100 years now. and that stability that they've had on the Agnellis, great patrons. And as I said, the identity of the club is so intrinsically linked with the Agnellis. But things are so desperate at the moment, relatively speaking, for a club like Juventus, that fans are like, oh, is it time for a change? I just hope that John Elkhan kind of grasps the nettle.

37:05People would say that if you look at what... It's not that how he's run Ferrari, for example, Formula One over the last two decades that explains why Ferrari no longer win world championships. It's is he able to choose the right people to run the sport side of the Agnelli businesses? And so far, the answer is no. So he needs to figure that out. Juventus currently lying eighth, as you mentioned, three points off the top four. in first place are Napoli, but separated by only goal difference from Roma, which is just bizarre if you've watched Roma play this season. But there they are. I think Roma played some good football this year, occasionally, not in every game.

37:52First game against Bologna, I thought they were excellent at the weekend against Sassuolo. Obviously, that came a little bit like Napoli, who was really smarting after that 6-2 defeat to PSV. Roma lost 2-0 to Victoria Pilsen at the Olympico. and Paolo Dybala came out after that and said, you know, we were really soft in this game and Gasparini basically had to sort of pull him over and say, I think you've overstepped the mark there, Paolo. Who scores the winning goal, the only goal against Sassuolo but Paolo Dybala. Paolo Dybala. And eight games gone in this season. Roma joint top with only eight goals scored.

38:28Which is... Only one of which has come from the combination of Evan Ferguson and Anton Dovbic. so that's a bit of a concern. Yeah, but they've got the best defence in the league. So yeah, it's weird. Gasparini, renowned for scoring hundreds of goals with Atalanta or his team scoring hundreds of goals and yet he's top of the league with this Roma team that doesn't concede any goals. Almost top of the league. Napoli just ahead of them. They boosted their goal difference with, again we talked about earlier, Napoli 3-1. That was Saturday tea time and a game that really, well, Inter started brightly, but half an hour in, perhaps a decisive moment.

39:11Yes, so a penalty that gets awarded to Napoli. And this was a source of great controversy in Italy over the weekend. Giovanni Di Lorenzo goes over too easily. The referee looks at it, basically decides, nah, not for me, Clive. But his linesman, apparently, his linesman says, no, no, no, that's a penalty. So it's not even the VAR that gets involved. And so immediately after the game, which Inter lose 3-1, the first person to speak to the media is Inter's president, Beppe Marotta, who comes down and says, look, you know, Napoli deserve to win, no doubt about that. But, you know, enough with these soft penalties.

39:55We saw one in Milan Fiorentina last week. The refereeing association have got to get a handle on this. and then Conte came out afterwards, having heard a guy who employed him on two occasions, like Ventus and Inter, say these things. And he's like, well, I think he's gone and undermined his coach there, hasn't he, Pepe? I've never needed daddy to come down to defend me. Daddy. Wow. So, yeah, Conte was taking names. Right. After this game. Yeah. Quite the triumph for him after what had been a... Bad week. A very bad week in the Champions League. Humiliated at the hands of PSV, who this weekend actually defeated Feyenoord.

40:36So they've hit some form to go top of the Eredivisie. But Napoli here going top of Serie A. Having taken the lead via KDB from the spot, he then goes off holding his hamstring, that same right hamstring which has been the cause of so many problems. Bighetarian was also involved in brushing against Di Lorenzo to concede the penalty. He goes off injured. Inter make it to half-time. And then, no sooner has the second half begun, but Scott McTominay pops up with something wonderful.

41:13Yeah,

41:19to be honest, I mean, Scott played well against PSV as well. I mean, he scored in that game. But this is one of his best goals in a Napoli shirt. And, you know, Inter, all over the place, they'd been on the attack. Kivu, their coach, said, we maybe got a little bit carried away because Inter finished the first half really strong. They'd hit the woodwork twice, came out, all guns blazing, second half as well. They go out on the attack, and then they're just not prepared for this transition that Napoli throw at them, where Spinazzola launches the ball diagonally in the air. McTominay loses it in the floodlights, doesn't know where it is, but sort of just tries to guess, brings it down.

41:59And before Jan Sommer can come off his line to sort of meet him, just hits it perfectly from outside the box into the far corner. And, you know, it was then shortly afterwards that Napoli gave away a penalty, which allowed Inter to get back into the game. But then you had the fracas between Denzel Dumfries, Matias Oliveira, which leads to this, you're f***ing yourself, Antonio from Lautaro Martinez. Right. and Inter's heads had gone by that point. Frank Anguissa then makes it 3-1 to Napoli with another lovely goal, to be fair. Afterwards, all sorts of skirmishes between, I mean, principally Lautaro and Conte is the main one, but yeah, a lot of tension, and maybe Inter need to have a look at themselves there.

42:46They dropped to fourth. Napoli taking the lead in the league now because while all that was going on this weekend, Milan were also dropping points. Milan, who had been on top of the pole after last week's action, this time lucky to get a point at home to Pisa. Yeah, there are four winless teams in Serie A as we're about to go into November, which is kind of mental. Pisa are one of them. Pisa don't deserve to be winless. They've come close a few times to winning. They played really well against Atalanta early in the season, played well against Fiorentina as well. and in this one they're seconds away from winning at San Siro which they hadn't done since 1981 when both teams were in the second division Milan have taken the lead from Rafa Liao goal from outside the box Allegri then thinks his players think the game's going to be easy it's not Pisa score twice Quadrado basically comes on Juan Quadrado for Pisa used to play for Allegri at Juventus won lots of league titles together been to Champions League finals together they get on really well he has this shot which hits the hand of Milan's defender Kony de Vinter gets the penalty, scores the penalty Allegri kind of shouts at him I would have saved that Juan and then in the last 10 minutes Pisa take the lead and it looks like it's match day one all over again when Milan lost to Cremonese these damn promoted clubs throwing spanners in the works but Milan got a late equaliser from one of their substitutes Zachary Athekame and saved face.

44:19Assisted by Luka Modric. Yes, Luka who continues to defy time. But yeah, I mean Milan could have, Milan I imagine most people thought would easily sweep past Pisa, still be top going into this midweek round of games and instead they were overtaken by Napoli and Roma. Indeed. Milan in this midweek round of games have Atalanta who drew with Cremonese this weekend and who scored Cremonese's goal James? Yeah no Vardy Vardy's first goal for Cremonese thought it was going to win the game for them he'd already had a goal disallowed in this game it was a not really a tap-in but a rebound from a shot from Alessio Zedbin but Atalanta came back Atalanta have been good this season but keep drawing games five draws in six now and sort of Ivan Juric clashed with his sort of one of their best players There's Marco Kaniseki, the goalkeeper, who Kaniseki basically called out his teammates.

45:21And Ivan Juric said, don't do that, mate. Which was, on the one hand, understandable. But at the same time, it's like Kaniseki has been stopping you losing more games than you perhaps should have done. So, you know, be careful. Indeed. Jamie Vardy's first goal, it's been quite a wait. Is that fair? Yeah. And he hasn't always been playing as well. I mean they do have quite a few striker options at Cremonese which he played up front with Antonio Sanabria. The goal, you know, he's 38. He's the oldest goal scorer in Serie A in that position since Qualiarella at Samp. But the surprising thing about Cremonese is they've sort of shown that they don't really need him.

46:05I think they've only lost one game so far this season. and they've been much better than expected upon coming up. So, yeah. Well, they've got the miracle man David Di Nicola in charge. So, who have they got midweek? They are going to be away at Genoa. Genoa, another winless team. Very much bottom of the table. The other big game in midweek, we talked about Milan-Atalanta, is Inter-Fiorentina and Stefano Pioli. so Fiorentina and the other winless team in all of this and they were 3-0 down at one stage against Bologna in the Apennine Derby and fans started leaving and as they were leaving they were abusing some of the executives at Fiorentina and then that third goal was ruled out by the VAR and Fiorentina began to come back into the game ended up getting a 2-2 draw where there's the former Fiorentina player, Federico Bernadeschi, handles a shot by Moyes-Ken.

47:10Bernadeschi sort of hated in Florence these days because he left to go to Juventus. Fiorentina get the penalty, score it, have another chance in stoppage time, could have maybe won it. And yeah, Pioli, who, yeah, this is the worst run Fiorentina have been on since the late 70s, still in a job, but that inter-game. and remember he lost his job at Milan because they kept losing to him to six times in a row. You do wonder if Steffi will still be in a job at the weekend. Crikey. One to watch then. That's coming up on Wednesday at San Siro. Magnificent. Many thanks for that, James. We'll finish off today's Totally Football Show with Seb Stafford-Bloor and news of the Bundesliga.

48:00You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Seb Stafford-Blore now with news of the Bundesliga in a second. But first off, Seb, you spotted our former chum, Raphael Honigstein. What's he been up to? He's been wearing some very fashionable clothing. Was it a run DMC sweatshirt? No, no, no. He was full parka, loads of zips, looked young, cool, fashionable. he was all over sky deutschland's premier league coverage at the weekend what was he doing was he in the studio or on a touchline he was the pitch side guest for everton against tottenham okay what did he say uh i had him on mute i'm afraid because i was talking to my wife it was half time my wife and i chat during half time but there he was and but we had a conversation about rafa's jacket so that's almost as good as listening to him right okay that's fair nice to see that just as much as England can export people wearing funny jackets to Bundesliga football, Germany can return the favour.

49:06Bundesliga where, Bayern are now five points clear of Leipzig, when indeed they were before. They remain five points clear of Leipzig at the top of the table. Both teams having won this weekend. Bayern with another victory over Borussia, this time 3-0 against Mönchengladbach. Leipzig though, yikes, 6-0 away to Augsburg. Things going pretty well for Olivera there at RBL. Yeah, and he's been allowed to work under the radar because, of course, in the opening night of the season, got smashed 6-0 by Bayern, and everybody kind of thought, eh, no point bothering with Leipzig this season. Haven't lost since, Jimbo, and they've been to Dortmund.

49:43This was the high point, and actually, what's been interesting is that people will be familiar with some of the attacking talent that Leipzig have got there. Antonio Nusa, Bakayoko, who signed from PSV in the summer, Romulo came from the circus superliga but kind of a forgotten name which is a strange thing to say about a 19 year old uh Hassan Ndrago who joined from Schalke in 2024 very much a wonder kid and thought of as a kind of a future German international had terrible luck with injuries sat out pretty much the entire season absolutely fantastic in Augsburg at the weekend and should certainly be on the on the long list for Julian Nagelsmann's German national team scored for the world cup but yeah great and leipzig with great watch there's there are some questions about their defense but at the moment the attack is just functioning so well it is worth caveating this by saying that not a great day for augsburg not a great day for augsburg goalkeeper finn darman and head coach sandra wagner was given kind of the german equivalent of a vote of confidence on sunday where it was kind of you know people started talking about how much faith they have in the project without really sounding like they had an awful lot of faith in the project so tough times and and wagner wagner's kind of painted himself into a bit of a corner jimbo because he's quite a brash guy talks a lot bit of antics that go with him and he was sort of chastised by a few media outlets earlier in the season said look you got to do something first before you behave like this on the touchline that's that sort of conservative german nature coming out but they have a point they have a point because um it's not gone well it's not nil at home you can just about get away with losing six nil at home to buy munich i think given the disparity in quality though wagner still at the beginning of the season before he when he took the job i don't really see much difference between us and buying quality wise so not a terrific way to set yourself up losing six nil at home to every leipzig bit of a no-no for anybody um even if leipzig did play extremely well right losing six nil to the team that by themselves have put six past.

51:48Augsburg currently lying 15th in the 18-team Bundesliga. Bottom of the parlour, Mönchengladbach in real trouble after their 3-0 defeat at home to Bayern Munich. A remarkable number of goals scored by Harry Kane in this one, yet again, the number this time being zero. What's happening? Well, not a particularly good Bayern performance. This game was kind of coloured by the red card for Jens Kostrop in the first half. He is very honest about it. it was a bad lunge on Luis Diaz, kind of just above the ankle, studs up. And he's asked about it afterwards and says, yeah, bad tackle. That was a red card, which you don't hear very often from players.

52:26And given how bad Gladbach have been this season, how good Bayern have obviously been themselves, I think the game kind of just got stuck in second gear. Bayern eventually won to the lead through Joshua Kimmich. Hey, Lenny Karl scored another brilliant goal to make it three.

52:49The Germans have an expression, Traumtor, which is literally my dream goal, but it means one-of-a-kind goal. He scored two fantastic goals in a week, so I'm not sure that's going to apply to him, but 17 years old, people who have been part of Bayern's academy for a few years been speaking about him for a lot longer, and actually he's been kind of internet famous for a really long time so if you um he didn't actually come up at bion he was a nine track frankfurt player during his academy years when he was playing for their under 11 team i think when he was 10 years old he scored an amazing goal in a in a sports hall game which just basically killed the ball on the outside of his ankle waist high volleyed it in and it was voted eintracht's academy goal of the season in 2018 and there's little Lenny Karl.

53:43Was that a Traum goal as well? Traum tour? It seems like it almost certainly and actually he scored a very, very good goal in pre-season against Tottenham which is exactly the same. He just finds the top corner every time he gets a shooting opportunity in his left foot. So maybe we'll come up with a different term but yeah, clearly a very good player. I feel like the media outlets in Germany who've already started printing national team lineups with him alongside Florian Wirtz and Jamal Maseala might be getting a little bit ahead of themselves. Lenny Kahl's only started one game this season and he's very much in that kind of...

54:16He comes on when games are won and when Bayern are in control. He's got a job on his hands to displace anybody from that forward line, especially when Mazziala comes back from injury, which is not so far away because Mazziala is running again and he's doing individual training at Sabanastrasse, which is great news for everybody. But he's great fun, Lenny Kahl. And if you get the chance to watch him, He's that classic sort of diminutive playmaker that when you first played Championship manager in the mid-90s and you sort of imagined what players looked like rather than actually knowing, that's what they looked like.

54:49And you can't. Okay, I'm imagining it. Good. Bayern, maybe he'll get a turn out this Wednesday because it's Pokal, second round of the Pokal. Bayern are away at Köln. Good. Vincent Kampany has signed a two-year extension on his Bayern contract, which may or may not keep him there until June 2029. Seb, on Saturday you went to see Hamburg taking on Wolfsburg. How was that? Yeah, funny old game actually because Wolfsburg took a beating on the XG but came away with a 1-0 win. Didn't play very well even by the acknowledgement of a few of their players. They exceeded all sorts of shots. I think Hamburg had around 2.87 XG all in, missed a penalty.

55:34ball just wouldn't go in and yeah I suppose for Wolfsburg the positive is finally a win a little bit of a change in narrative because there had started to be some criticism about not necessarily of Paul Simones who came in his first year head coach came in from the Eredivisie over the summer but the construction of the side which was full of Danish players brought in by a Danish sporting director among them Christian Eriksen who's playing this kind of strange kind of supporting forward role which at his age is is perhaps not ideal but they got the win uh ericsson got the assist um really really nice goal luke viscovich tricky little moment luke viscovich has been is obviously on loan from spurs and has been a great success in hamburg and um you know his aerial dominance has set all sorts of statistical records got caught out a little bit for the volsburg goal but then this is why he's there right because you can make a mistake in the Bundesliga and you don't sort of get trolled to death by you know online banter goblins which is who wants that right and he'll learn from it and it's worth saying also for Vizcovic made the mistake early in the first half also scored in like the 15th minute it's absolutely sensational for the rest of the game which I suppose is what you look for in an 18 year old you're allowed to make mistakes and then let's see how you respond and he was he was very very good but um yeah Haasvall played well.

56:56They played good football. The absence of a centre-forward, a little bit of a worry because I think they lost David Selke to Turkey over the summer. He's got a lot of goals in the Zweiter Bundesliga. Robert Glatzel isn't playing. And they spend much of the game arrowing crosses towards Rancid Koenigstorfer. He's a good player, but not really an aerial threat. So let's see. But good news for Vospey, I suppose. There you go. It gives them a little bit of breathing space above the bottom two and a half in the Bundesliga. Seb, next time around, there's loads we'll talk about from the Bundesliga, not least Dortmund's prospects against Man City when the Champions League gets back up and running.

57:36But for now, many, many thanks for bringing us up to speed. Have a great week and we'll catch up with you next Monday. Cheerio. So, that's probably where we can park this for another week. We will return on Monday looking ahead to the Champions League I think which is back in the days that follow that. James though you'll be back in the studio on Thursday when we're going to be doing a totally football show extra about a far away time called the year 2000. Yeah. The millennium bug. Yeah. What will we be talking about? Well you can find out when that one drops on Saturday but it's of course Euro 2000.

58:20Anyway, James will be with us and Duncan Alexander and Michael Cox as well. Actually, you know what? Duncan's not going to be with us. He's on holiday. It's Charlie Eccleshare. Yeah. What a line-up. What a line-up. Splendid. Many thanks for today. Many thanks, Lucy. Many thanks to you, listener. We're back soon for now from all of us here. It's goodbye.

58:45You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.