Benfica goalie glory, Chelsea knock out Napoli + Spurs get ready for Man City

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30like a Carabao Cup quarterfinal line-up. Then it's back home for some delicious-looking weekend Premier League fixtures. Spurs Man City, Legacies, Liverpool, Newcastle and a brand-new grudge derby for Crystal Palace. All of that coming up in this Totally Football Show.

0:53Thursday, the 29th of January. Welcome to the Totally Football Show. We've got Duncan Alexander. Hi, James. Hi, Duncan. Nice to see you. Very happy after my defence of this league format has been proven 110 % correct. You've gone there, have you? All right. Tom Williams. Hello, James. Also happy? Well, also, as in Duncan's case, a long-time defender of the new format and feeling extremely vindicated this morning. Powerfully vindicated. I do not know why, unless you've lost your senses. But we'll come on to that a little bit later on. and joining us for the first time on the show. Not the first time you've ever appeared, but, you know...

1:34In the flesh. In the flesh. Liam Toomey. Liam, how are you? Good, good. It's nice not to be a head and shoulders in a box and actually in a box. With all of you. Bigger box. Remember? What's in the box? That one? Yeah. I mean, various ones. Seven, for example. Yes, most famously. Yeah. Nobody wants that. Oh, listen, by the way, it's payday. today, tomorrow, something like that and if you're wondering where to spend those hard won coppers there are 20 tickets still for the Totally Football Show live experience which will be on the 23rd of March at the Leicester Square Theatre.co.uk that's where you can find out all the details, 20 tickets I don't know when you're listening to this there might not be 20 by now so make haste to snatch those up if you fancy coming along and seeing Duncan also erstwhile friend of the show Julian Laurence will be there and I think Benji Laniard Benji Laniard it's going to be a robust evening I will also be making an appearance hopefully you will too if you haven't already nailed your ticket down anyway, alright Liam did you enjoy Champions League Match Day 8 the Denouement I did, I'm more of an agnostic about this format than Duncan and Tom but having tuned out of most of it yeah over the last few months isn't that interesting that you tuned out of most of it yeah so the competition so far has lasted five months and we've had a good night therefore the whole thing's been a wild success yeah is that your argument Duncan well I mean works for Christmas so why not this but you don't have you don't have seven Christmases before you actually get some presents do you yeah but you have a lot of build up and a lot of talk about it and a few you know.

3:28If you go to the shops it feels like you have seven Christmases before Christmas. True and how people complain about that. Tom come on then. Come to Duncan's age. I mean I have slightly mixed feelings about specifically night eight of the league phase format because the purist in me wants to say this is not football. This is popcorn football, 2020 football just sitting there on your sofa getting goals just rammed down your throat one after the other devoid of context and narrative. But at the same time, it is quite exciting and quite fun. And at a time when youngsters, Gen Z, haven't got the attention spans anymore for a full game of football.

4:07Well, there you go, James. So, you know. Commentators constantly reiterating where this leaves the table for all the people that are second screened, Netflix-style. As it stands. And one of the complaints... There are live updates in the table. I mean, it's true. There is context. I think one of the complaints about this league phase is that there's an awful lot of football, and an awful lot more football than there used to be in the previous format, but very little jeopardy. But last night there was something riding on almost every game and there was genuine jeopardy. There certainly was. There was so much riding on it.

4:38Lots of people have written in, let's see, J. Cole, does Jimbo still hate this group league format? Even after Anatoly Trubin's Magnificent header, etc. Jose Mourinho never dies, says J. Cole. Lots of other people kind of on my side of the argument, like Andrew C, fully agree. But who makes the point that it's a ridiculous table where your points and goal difference gets compared against teams who have played different teams. So how can you use that as a... People do make the point that, oh, it's not the same because, you know, you don't play, you're not directly affecting your opposition like you would in a four-team group.

5:12No, that's not what they're saying. Yeah, they are. No, they're not. Yeah, they are. They're saying that if you're in a group of four and you win away at one of those teams, you're directly impacting that team negatively. Oh, yeah, they're saying that, yeah. And they're saying that you don't have that in this format. But you do then get what we had yesterday, which is Marseille, who had like a 94 % chance of getting through to the playoffs before the game per Optus supercomputer. Post the final whistle was celebrating with a big scoreboard at Bruges saying, well done, Marseille, you're through.

5:39Yeah, but like some sort of Siegfried Sassoon figure, they were left bereft in Flanders because many, many miles to the south, there was madness happening. Have the First World War because you'll get a Siegfried Sassoon moment. That's your argument. And Bodo Glimt. Bodo Glimt, come on. Bodo Glimt is Bodo Glimt. You have Bodo Glimt, whatever the league format. If they'd have won their last two games in the old format, they wouldn't have finished. Well, you don't know that. You don't know that. How can you say that? If they'd won their last two games out of six fixtures, I'd say there's a fair chance they would have gone through.

6:10People hated that old format by the end. No, they did not. No, they did not. Seb True says, the new format may not be better, but I do think the old one needed changing. So there is a truth in between your view and my view, I guess. My view touches on what you were saying about tuning out of the group phase in that you have all these games which, because they're not home and away, essentially lose their whole kind of narrative structure. So if you want to do a league phase and not groups, I say you do it with, say, 16 teams, and you have them play home and away against their opponents, and then that's a fair league table at the end.

6:45Apart from the fact that the league table is wildly skewed by the fact that you'll have some clubs like Spurs who've played vastly inferior opposition, or have an easier route, let's say, it's just that the not home and away is just, it's just wrong in terms of a knockout structure, I think. There's quite an Arsene Wenger argument, you know, kind of sporting integrity. And I think there is... Arsene Wenger argument pre or post FIFA job. Yeah, pre-mad FIFA propositions. And I think, you know, from a sort of sporting integrity perspective, I think that is a solid argument. but I think the old format had grown a bit stale.

7:23There were precious few genuine surprises and this has re-dynamised the competition. How many surprises did we have? Oh, it's Manchester City against Schalke again. Well, I'll tune in for that. You'll never guess whose city have pulled out of the hat. They're back to Shakhtar the Nets. Fine, but have them play home and away. That's all I ask. Our colleague Michael Cox has a piece coming out later on The Athletic where he muses about this thing. Does he disagree with both of us, as is his way? Yes, yes. He's suggesting four groups of nine. And some other variations as well. Four groups of nine?

7:58Where you still play eight games. Right, okay. So you still have 36 teams, as you do now. But it's just more, you can still play eight games. Right, so that's similar to mine, but more of it. It's kind of like a halfway house between the old format, the hated old format, and the brilliant new format. so my point on the new format is won't anyone think of the stakeholders they're the ones who benefit from this, more is more, more games means more money, means well in theory even if no one's watching James more cash, more goals, more injuries so much football you literally can't even take it in, there's not enough room in your head.

8:34The only bad thing about it is it's very hard to say alright the Champions League league stage that needs addressing as a matter of priority I think Champions League League I think FaZe as well Mega Bracket It's not a bracket is it It's Hmm The Super League No no no We can't do that Fine sure I think you got it Alright well anyway We should talk a little bit About what happened On the best night of football Ever A draw actually Before we get on to that Just to mention the draw Is going to be Friday lunchtime And straight afterwards Tom you're going to join Myself James Horncastle Seb Staffordblot And Paul Belus for a reaction.

9:14Although it's one of those strange draws, isn't it? Because we know... We know 50 % of... 50-50... It's a hunch. Yeah, don't... I won't spoil it. Water down the excitement. But Man City are definitely playing Real Madrid in the last six teams. Well, you say that. You say that. Anyway, the headlines from Wednesday. Five Premier League sides, that's Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and Man City, all made the top eight. Bayern, Barcelona and Sporting in there with them. Chelsea made it by beating Napoli 3-2 in a topsy-turvy game down in Naples. A result that put the Italian champions out. The Premier League side that didn't make the top eight were Newcastle, who do go into the knockout stages alongside Paris Saint-Germain, with whom they drew 1-1 in Paris.

10:00Among the big names that miss out altogether are Napoli's mentioned, Marseille, PSV and Athletic Club de Bilbao. The biggest stories of the night came in Madrid and Lisbon. In Madrid, the remarkable Bodo Glimt did it again. A week on from defeating Man City, they came from behind to beat Atletico Madrid at theirs on grass. While in Lisbon, just madness, Jose Mourinho's Benfica also came from behind to win 4-2 against Real Madrid with a 98-minute header scored by their goalkeeper. Nick Miller was there. We'll be hearing from him very shortly. First, though, Napoli-Chelsea. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

10:43Enzo Fernandes up to João Pedro. Had one short on his back. Good ball back to João Pedro. Garnaccio's with him. Might not need him. Looks to go alone. And did brilliantly. Oh, what a performance in this second half from João Pedro. Liam and Duncan, you both watched Napoli-Chelsea on Wednesday night. Pfft. Very exciting, wasn't it, Liam? Yeah, it was a fun game. And, you know, without laboring the point on the format, it was quite refreshing in the last 30 minutes to see both teams have a clear incentive to go for it. And I think that did actually condition what we saw in terms of the way the game panned out.

11:21It certainly helped Chelsea because as teams come forward and give them space, they are very, very dangerous. Right. And João Pedro in particular. What also helped Chelsea with the substitutions that Liam Rosseña made? Yeah, I think you have to give him credit for that. I think you also have to maybe ask questions of the starting game plan. One natural centre-back in Wesley Fofana, Rhys James nominally starting at centre-back, but kind of doing this hybrid right-back role, Malo Gusto going all the way up the right wing. It felt a bit galaxy brainy, and Chelsea were quite open out of possession.

11:58And it particularly came at the cost of Trevor Chalaba, who's actually been one of their better performers, more consistent performers recently, and one of their bigger characters. But I think what Rosinia stressed afterwards is that you can see these men aging before your eyes. He didn't use those words, obviously. I don't think he'll use them again. But you could see the resilience. They were playing a team depleted by injury, but a team that hadn't lost in 25 games at home. An Antonio Conte team that knows what it's doing, is intense, presses you. And I know, I think, Rasmus Hoyland said that they had struggled with their energy in the final 30 minutes, the benches, there was a big difference.

12:37But Chelsea didn't panic. They made adjustments, Rosenthal made adjustments in any second Champions League game and they found the moments of quality as the game opened up to turn it. Jean-Pedro, what a signing he is proved to be. Yeah, it's sort of strange because obviously he came in in the summer. It's very strange to sign in the summer and kind of make your debut over the summer holidays. But obviously he played really well at the Club World Cup. Then hasn't probably kicked on as much as Chelsea would have hoped in the domestic season. But, yeah, he looked brilliant. I mean, Rossini made a point of saying that he's been speaking to him a lot, kind of demanding more energy from him and more sort of focus.

13:13And I think we saw that, particularly with, well, with both girls. But the second one where he kind of gave it back to Palmer and then absolutely legged it forward. And, yeah, Palmer came on at half-time and didn't look 100 % fit, but clearly assisted both of the girls in the second half and looked good as well. So it was, as Liam says, they were rocking slightly. And to sort of go 2-1 down at the Diego Maradona is, I imagine, not having done it personally, it's quite a nervous moment. But they reacted really well. And I think it doesn't really matter that much, I guess, that they've got straight through to the last eight because the draw might be quite tricky anyway.

13:50But I think in terms of Rosinha's start, and I'm impressed with, you know, obviously people have focused on his mannerisms quite a lot since he came in. but I feel like if you compare him with someone like Graham Potter who came in and looked a bit nervous and was a bit cautious, he's kind of just gone, I've got this opportunity, I'm just going to try stuff. And whether it works or not, and so far it has kind of worked, I think that is the only way to come in with that sort of profile at a club of Chelsea's size. And I think that's why it's probably an even bigger result than it probably is in terms of the Champions League.

14:25Just to the point of the Napoli atmosphere, There was a funny moment that came through on the TV broadcast in the first half where the camera panned to Rosinia on the touchline and you couldn't see which player he was talking to, but you could clearly see him mouth, I can't hear what you're saying, just keep playing. it was so dramatic because Chelsea went a goal up then 2-1 down and this was an incredible moment where the local lads caught his first goal having pulled off a Maradona turn and then somehow beaten the usually impenetrable Roberto Sanchez and yeah Napoli looked like they were snatching qualification from the jaws of utter disaster but no it didn't prove to be that way Tom echoes dare we say it perhaps Perhaps 2011-12 for Chelsea, a mid-season managerial change, a must-win Champions League fixture against Napoli that they managed to come through.

15:21You want to know what happened next? Hashtag makes you think. Hashtag just saying. Yeah. But for Napoli, it's a disaster because, I mean... Yes. It's not great, but then again, it didn't happen on Wednesday. It happened when they couldn't beat Copenhagen, who only had 10 men. And it happened when they got beat 6-2 by PSV Eindhoven, who won't be going to the knockout stages. Yeah, big problems for Napoli. Liam, you mentioned the benches, the injuries. The fact that Conte as well has never been able to get it together in Europe, however successful he's been domestically. On the Chelsea front, though, Wednesday also brought shock news with Raheem Sterling's exit.

16:02Shock mostly because I didn't realise, I'd forgotten that he was even at Chelsea. well he he was and he wasn't really he was he was on the books uh to to no one's pleasure really right um but kind of hidden away at Cobham and his career at Chelsea functionally ended 18 months ago when he was taken out of first team training and Enzo Maresca came into a press conference and said he preferred a different kind of winger without really elaborating on what that was um I mean it was clear from Chelsea's perspective that I think there was disappointment with Raheem Sterling, the player, in terms of his production, but that was always within the context of the massive contract that they'd given him.

16:45That was kind of the original sin of this union, the fact that Chelsea had decided to make him their highest earner and pay him on the level of a Kevin De Bruyne or a Mohamed Salah. And he's been a really good player for a long time, but never quite been that level to drive winning on his own. Do you think he can be a good player again? I think if you talk to people who know him, the thing that's constantly stressed is his professionalism. I think you can see the videos that he's been putting up on his Instagram. He's still in really good shape and he will clearly back himself now that his market is broader as a free agent to go somewhere and get match fitness quickly and then begin to show that he can be useful again.

17:27I'm not sure he can necessarily be at the level he was at Manchester City, but I think he can still help a team. As a free agent, he can move even after the January window closes. Okay. Are there any suggestions of places that he might go? Well, one that was linked was Napoli. Right. Quite interesting, although I think their sporting director kind of played that down. Oh. So we'll see. But what is clear is that in previous windows, Sterling was kind of loathe to leave London for family reasons, particularly for a loan move. it's very different when you're talking about the prospect of a permanent transfer where you've got a bit more stability, security it didn't turn out that way at Chelsea but if he's confident he's going somewhere where he's going to have a chance to play then I think there will be less barriers in his mind as to where he would go I think he should probably choose somewhere where he's going to be a regular starter because obviously at Arsenal last season he got sort of 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there and coming on often for Saka and it just never really worked, never got going I think he kind of needs that run of games.

18:29But yeah, he's still only 31. One thing you have to say as well is that he had... Well, it would have been very easy for him to just sit on the remainder of this contract until the summer of 2027. So he's actively made a decision in conjunction with Chelsea to try and be a footballer again and to write a happier final chapter of his career. Best of luck to him. I hope we see that. Tom, Wednesday night, meantime, you were all over Paris Saint-Germain against Newcastle. Yes. Which once again saw a controversial penalty against the Magpies. It did, yeah. So as Newcastle fans will not need reminding, the last time they played against PSG in the Champions League was an away group match at the Parc des Princes in 2022-23 and they were winning and penalised for what felt like quite a harsh penalty deep into stoppage time that Kylian Mbappe dispatched.

19:28And there was barely a minute on the clock in last night's reunion when Nuno Mendes plays a lovely pass sort of down the inside left channel, but Bradley Bacullo gets in behind, tries to play a cross in towards Ousmane Dembele. The ball is kind of deflected back to him, bounces off his elbow, which he's holding tight to his body, and then hits Lewis Miley's outstretched hand. VAR check, referee goes to the monitor. We all know the drill. But Ousmane Dembele's penalty is turned away by Nick Pope. And it's funny, last season, Vittina was on penalties. And Vittina's an exceptionally good penalty taker.

20:05And Dembele wasn't happy about not being on penalties because he wanted to be the main man. And so this season, he is ostensibly the first choice penalty taker. But sadly for him and for PSG, he's just not very good at penalties. So he has his penalty saved. Fortunately, Vitinha is on hand to score four minutes later, put PSG ahead. And as has happened very frequently this season with PSG, they were absolutely brilliant for the first 20 minutes, pressing really aggressively, loads of high turnovers, creating opportunities, but not putting any of them away. And Newcastle, who playing with a back three again, sort of weathered the storm and had a very brief, strong period towards the end of the first half.

20:51But against PSG at the moment, that's often all that their opponents need. They win a free kick that Sandra Tonali pumps into the box. Marquinhos can only help it on. Dan Byrne flicks it on for Joe Willock to score. And then second half was similar. PSG with lots of the ball, but Newcastle increasingly dangerous on the break. So PSG go into the knockout round, which they also did last year and they went on to win it. PSG in the second half of last season became this unstoppable machine right through the Club World Cup until they met Chelsea, of course, in the final. Why is that team, now that a lot of those players who were out injured have come back, your Kavaras, your Dembele's, your Dues, why are they now so flaky?

21:30It's very hard to explain because, as we've discussed previously, a big problem Pearce you had in the first half of the season was the fallout from last season. Going to the Club World Cup, getting to the final, minimal pre-season, loads of injuries, And now, as you say, James, the treatment tables are slowly clearing. Last night, they were practically at full strength. The only starting player from last season who wasn't on the pitch at kickoff was Fabian Ruiz. But those players are out of form. Dembele's out of form. Deziro Douay, who came on for Kvarac Scalier, who went off injured, unfortunately, for him midway through the first half.

22:04He's in poor form. Bradley Bacola just keeps playing the same game over and over again. Creates so many chances for himself, all of which he squanders. and they look either kind of short of confidence or lacking a bit of sharpness or perhaps a combination of the two. And the feeling at PSG, and you speak to people at the club and around the changing room and there's an awful lot of positivity, you know, their feeling is, well, there's no reason why the team can't go on and do what it did this time a year ago and suddenly just catch fire in the second half of the season. But their last three games in the Champions League, 0-0 draw away Athletic Bilbao 2-1 defeat away at Sporting and then 1-1 draw at home to Newcastle and all the other big teams that needed a result last night more or less won I guess with the exception of Real Madrid perhaps and PSG didn't and I guess we're They could have lost as well Harvey Barnes Harvey Barnes three minutes to go Anthony Gordon and Harvey Barnes both came on together and were fantastic and Gordon gets into the box has a deflected shot they come through to Barnes at the back post usually quite an assured finisher and he's just kind of stretching awkward angle close range and it comes off the post but yeah they almost lost it and we're waiting for PSG to catch fire again and there's a feeling that well they just surely they just will because we saw what these players did last season but the longer time goes on without that happening the more you start to think is there something you know more fundamental going on No one except Real Madrid ever retains the Champions League do they say?

23:36Curiously in that game PSG and Newcastle in this kind of pairing system you get in the playoffs They're the same pair, so they came 11th and 12th. So they will get Monaco and Carabaug, one of them. Anything else you want to say about that? Possibly about Newcastle getting a point, almost three away in Paris, given their ropey record on the road. That was a pretty impressive performance. Yeah, I mean, you think their last trip to France, they lost away a very flaky Marseille team. And yeah, they managed to, you know, whether the storm in the difficult moments against PSG last night, and if anything, they probably came closer to scoring a winner than PSG did.

24:16So I think that will give them confidence. And you look at, you know, that sort of, there's a squad depth that wasn't there last season. The fact that you can start with, you know, Barnes, Anthony Gordon and Johan Visser all on the bench, all come on, you know, all have a big impact. they were missing Bruner Gimeraj, missing Joel Inton and yet still managed to look the defending European champions in the eye. Decent showing. Very good. They've got another tough away game coming up this weekend when they will be at Anfield against Liverpool. We'll talk about what Liverpool got up to on Wednesday and the other Premier League sides very, very shortly.

24:53But next up, let's find out about the incredible events of the Estadio de Luz.

25:03This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. Moment of the season? Very possibly. Jose Mourinho's Benfica rescue mission saw them on Wednesday night taking on Real Madrid. They needed to win, they needed other results to go their way too. They went behind, they came from behind. and in the 98th minute, with all the other matches around Europe finished, and Benfica winning 3-2 but still going out on goal difference, they had a free kick and their goalkeeper came up.

25:42And with the last play of the game, this. He'll win! He'll win! He'll win! He'll win! Le Bento! No! He can see it! Goal! Goal! Goal!

25:56Goal! Truby! Truby! Truby! Stam Truby!

26:07Padre nuestro! Padre nuestro! Truby! Joining us now from a departure lounge in Lisbon, or adjacent, is Nick Miller, who's on his way back from having been present at match of the season. Nick, how are you feeling? Still quite wrung out, really. It was like, what was it, about 12 hours ago that the game finished and still shaking a little bit. It was the most astonishing finish to a game I think I've ever been at. I wasn't watching this because of the football and we didn't know at the time. But Nick, they didn't realise the Benfica bench, they didn't realise that they weren't going through. Is that right?

26:54Yeah, so up until about, I think about the 94th minute, 95th minute, they made a bunch of substitutions on the basis that, oh, 3-2, it's a win. We don't really know what else is going on, but, you know, what we have, we hold. So they took off the whole front four at various stages, including the two players who'd actually scored the goals previously. But the weird thing was that the crowd seemed to know much earlier than the bench did. So there was this kind of, it was a bit where the goalkeeper was like actively wasting time with a free kick. And the whole crowd was just kind of screaming at him to just kind of hurry up.

27:29He had no idea what was going on. And then shortly after they'd made all their substitutions, someone, you know, discovered a laptop or a phone somewhere and found out that all the other games had finished. They needed one more goal. So panic stations, everyone started waving, got a free kick. Goalkeeper went up front, bang. Bang. Very Alan Bulls Manchester City on the last day of the 95-96 season. You know what? I thought of that moment. And, Duncan, I thought of you as well at that moment. The thing is, if the second half hadn't kicked off so late, would they even have gone through? Probably not, no.

28:04Because, I mean, a few people were talking, even at half-time, oh, it's been delayed. Are these more Jose shenanigans? They weren't. It was just because there was a couple of things, There were two penalties awarded, one of which was overturned, a couple of injuries as well, so it was like six, seven minutes of injury time. But, yeah, at the time we were all going, hmm, could be crucial, and it turned out it was extremely crucial. Right. Incredible scenes at the end. Have you seen the clip of the Portuguese news channel where they're interviewing a Catholic cardinal and suddenly a screaming breaks out backstage in the studio?

28:41When we experience a situation... Ah, exactly. It was Wolf. OK.

28:52It makes me wonder how quickly the Holy Father himself, no, not the Holy Father, that's the Pope, the Father himself realised what was going on. This enormous scream and he just kind of, he jumped as if someone had kind of, he'd heard a gunshot or something and then he goes, oh, don't worry, it's just Benfica scored. It's fine. Pope was busy over in Paris, of course. On the whole, though, Jose who's had so many disappointing later stages in his kind of managerial arc. What are you doing at Benfica? I know it hasn't been 100 % successful, but was this one of his greatest nights ever, Nick? Oh, yeah, I think so.

29:29I think even he said after the game he's seen some things, but nothing ever like that. I mean, the other thing, this was incredibly dramatic. It would have been incredibly dramatic even if not much was riding on it. But if Benfica had gone out, their season would have pretty much been over. They went out of both competitions, 10 points behind Porto in the league. On Saturday, like 200 ultras showed up at the training ground, demanding to speak to President Rui Costa. We want answers as to why everything is so terrible. So, yeah, I mean, without this, the season would have been over. I think no one would have expected Mourinho to go.

30:09People are sort of half expecting him to stay beyond the summer, you know, Portugal national team job pending. But yeah, without this, the rest of the season would have been basically irrelevant. Classic Mourinho as well at the final whistle. Turning round the stadium is just alive with celebrations. Jabbing his finger, pointing at the stand as if to say, yeah, exactly what we planned. 98th minute goal by a goalkeeper. Just what we've been working on all week. the world fell for it again. Yeah. They, it was, he, it was one of those things. Our old friend, Jimbo, Rob Smythe has this great line about, you know, something brilliant has happened because people have stopped running in different directions.

30:55And that was, that was exactly what happened here. Like the, obviously the goalkeeper had no idea what to do. Mourinho ran off in the other direction and kind of gathered a bald boy up in his arms and was celebrating with him as well. Everyone, you know, piling on top of the goalkeeper. incredible. The shot of Trubin doing his knee slide with all of his teammates and everyone from the bench gathered as a kind of Bob Fosse chorus line behind him is one of the most extraordinary things. An amazing night for Benfica and in the knockout stage they could be doing it all over again because their potential opponents are Inter with whom Jose won the Champions League and Real Madrid again.

31:33We'll find out which they get in Friday's draw. Nick, very very special. or where are you off to this weekend? This weekend, I think I'm going to have a big lie down after all that. Magnificent. Well, I know you'll be across Forest Clash with Crystal Palace. So, best of luck. A minor step down in times of drama, but who knows?

31:56Bad night for Alvaro Arbelor and Real Madrid. Good night for Mbappé. I mean, in a limited sense, because he got another two goals, which means that he's now on how many times? 13, yeah. So he has five goals clear of Harry Kane and six clear of Erling Haaland. He's hunting down Cristiano Ronaldo's record of 17 in a season. But he might only have two more games to reach that total at this rate. I mean, once again, the only thing that works at Real Madrid this season is Kylian Mbappe. And he turns up in almost every game. He scores in almost every game. And he's scoring the kind of goals that we've not really seen him score that much before.

32:32I mean, the first goal was beautifully timed. had a ghost again at the back post. Second goal, really difficult first-time finish from a cutback. And while all around him is collapsing, I mean, he is becoming the embodiment of the this is fine meme, basically. Another dire night for Spanish football league, isn't it? I mean, if you look at the points per game for clubs in the, if you do it by country, England 2.2, which is good. Then Portugal on 1.56. Then Italy on 1.53. Then Germany on 1.5. Then France on 1.38. So Spain are down in six on 1.33 per game. So Ligue 1, that's not that good. What does that mean, Duncan, in terms of places in next year's competition?

33:17Well, the UEFA coefficient runs over five years, so they're still in a fairly solid position there, but it obviously impacts their chances of getting one of the two bonus slots. Premier League you'll be unsurprised to learn have pretty much sewn up one of them so 5th place party time but then the other one is pretty close between Germany Italy and Spain so yeah that last night again won't help Spain ok the Portuguese coefficient boosted by the fact that the remarkable sporting also of Lisbon themselves had a late winner a dramatic one as they beat Athletic Club de Bilbao 3-2 on Wednesday night this a week on from defeating Paris Saint-Germain man so pretty impressive stuff from re borgias now while all that was happening in lisbon between benfica and real madrid the other big story of this midweek was bodo glimped in madrid beating atletico madrid 2-1 duncan this part of that big hit on the coefficient but in bodo glimped terms this is even more impressive than last week's result would you say that was at home to Man City on the plastic pitch.

34:28It wasn't that cold, actually. Fair play to the weather. They're like the anti-Stoke, aren't they? Can they do it on a nice farmy evening in the tree? Actually, yeah, it turns out they can. There's too much grass on that pitch. But yeah, I mean, they were dead and buried and then win the last two games and magical. Six weeks, was it, they'd had without a fixture. And then Kjetl Nudsen and his team beat Man City and Diego Simeone's Atletico in the space of a week. If they get through the playoffs, they could be facing Man City again in the last 16. But before that, they've got to take on... Real Madrid or Inter.

35:09Oh, right. They're the other half of... Right. Far be it from me to commission pieces live on a podcast, but there's surely an athletic feature in what Bodo Glimp did in that time without a domestic game to gear up for these Champions League matches because it's phenomenal. And also the benefits of physical freshness at a time when the big clubs are struggling with all the matches packed together. Erling Haaland complaining the other day about the ridiculous number of games he has to play. Not if you play for Bodo Glimt. He should have stayed in Norway early. It's a circle, more an arctic circle.

35:43Very, very nice. Very nice. The other Premier League sides. Anyway, Liverpool beat Carabao 6-0. That's Arnie Slott's biggest victory with the Reds. It also featured Mo Salah's first Liverpool goal since the 1st of November and a lovely free kick it was too. Florian Wurtz got his first Champions League goal for the Reds. Virgil van Dijk got three assists. The ball upfield for Eketike's breakaway goal was very nice. Continuing van Dijk's extremely weird season or maybe a sign that now that he's realised he's not all that good at defending anymore he needs to diversify a little bit. He's pivoting to an assist provider.

36:19I mean, basically all of Liverpool were at it. They had 38 shots, which is the most any team's had in a 90-minute Champions League match since Optus started actually counting them in 2003. Carabaig get a bit of a hiding, but they still make the knockout round, so there's that. Yeah, they lost three of the last four games. They were very much the first half of the league stage's darlings, but have just clung on. So, I mean, I think the fact that we've got Carabaig and Bodo Glimp through to the playoffs, again, huge tick for this format. There you go. Eintracht Frankfurt won't be in the competition going forward, but that was even before.

36:56They lost on Wednesday night 2-0 at home to Spurs. Once again, Tottenham looking good midweek in Europe. Can they repeat that this weekend as they host Manchester City? The goals, by the way, coming from Rando Kolomawani against his former club and Dominic Solanke, who came on to effectively wrap the game up. 2-0 as well for Man City at home to Galatasaray with Erling Haaland, scoring his first non-penalty goal since Christmas. Ryan Cherky doubling the lead. And Arsenal made it eight wins out of eight, which is hugely impressive. They did concede two goals, though, at home to Kyra in a 3-2 win.

37:36I noticed that Kai Havertz, who made his first start for Arsenal in over a year and got a goal and two assists. That's a pretty impressive return. Lim did you know this is courtesy of Optus Tom Ead that he's the first Arsenal player to score against an opponent whose first three letters are the same as the first three letters of his first name since 1996 Kai Havertz against Kairat do you know who was the last Arsenal player to do it in 1996? 1996 I mean timing wise Ian Wright but I'm thinking about the first three letters very few clubs that begin Ian yeah Birmingham there is two Birmingham Jones was it listener did you get it there is a club called Leeds and Lee Dixon scored against them Lee Dixon there can't be many goal scoring Arsenal rated stats to which the answer is Lee Dixon so you know one to treasure there you go I mean it is good to see Hebert's back I mean yes it has been a long time and for a long time he was one of football's iron men in terms of his availability Chelsea didn't have many injury problems and he was one of their more reliable players not necessarily in terms of production but so it's nice to see him back he feels like one of those players that's been worn down by the relentlessness of the football schedule and he played in midfield last night which was interesting because I think the tendency has been to think that he's going to be an alternative to Jokoraz and Gabriel Jesus but a reminder that he is also capable of playing in midfield albeit caveat it was against Kairat the endless positional referendum anyone can't have that score.

39:14Jokka is who opened the scoring. That was the Champions League phase in a very exciting Wednesday night in a kind of watching the results roll in from seats all over the country on election night. It had a little bit of that feel to it. It did. Yeah. Hmm. Very quickly, Marseille, not at the competition, an absolute catastrophe for them and Roberto de Zerbi because the whole point of him being there is to make them a Champions League club again and he appeared to have done that in getting them back into the Champions League. And they'd had some really good performances and a few impressive results.

39:46And now they are out on their ears, thanks to a 98th minute goal by a goalkeeper scored in a game taking place a thousand miles away. Luckily, Nassau is a very calm and non-volatile environment. And all the people who work at the club are very calm, non-volatile people. So I'm sure there'll be no spectacular fallout from this. Oh, never mind, there's always next season. What did L 'Equipe say, Tom? Well, they weren't particularly charitable. you won't be surprised to hear and there's a particularly punchy headline here a catastrophic match a pitiful defeat and an elimination that they learnt about in the changing room OM experienced in Bruges one of their biggest ever fiascos Crikey Less in Bruges and more out Bruges Well, quite literally Love a good catastrophic headline Oh yeah, right, yeah Out Bruges Equally, Barcelona fans wildly celebrating the news that Real Madrid hadn't made it to the last eight.

40:43Anyway, that's the Champions League. We'll have the draw Friday. And as mentioned, we'll be doing a special live reaction to that from about midday on our YouTube channel. And then that'll be packaged up as a shiny podcast for you swiftly afterwards. Next up, let's get on to Premier League Match Day 24.

41:10week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy seeing glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Premier League match day 24. No Saturday lunchtime game. The round begins with three matches at three. Brian Everton, Wolves-Bornworth and Arsenal's trip to Leeds. Arsenal have only picked up two points from the last nine available. 5.30 on Saturday, Chelsea play West Ham at 8 o 'clock. It's then Liverpool against Newcastle. Liverpool fresh from that 6-0 on Wednesday, but they've gone five Premier League games without a win, which is their worst run in. 23 years. So, I know there are three games to choose from at 2pm.

41:50You can choose between Villa Brentford, broke, Man Utd, Fulham, woke, Forest Palace, bespoke. This game, after all, takes place on Sunday because Forest are playing in the Europa League, and Crystal Palace aren't. Also, Forest are apparently trying to buy Mateta. So that'll warm things up between them. At 4.30, there's also Spurs Man City. We'll talk about that very shortly. And then Monday night, Sunderland Burnley. Ooh, right. Well, what about Spurs Man City? Muscle memory suggests this is a bit of a graveyard for Man City ambitions, Duncan. But I read that actually City have won on three of the last four visits to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.

42:33It's classic football half-life, isn't it, where a thing gets established. I mean, certainly it changes, but people, it takes a long time for, like an oil tanker, people to change their mind. But so... Good football analogy. Yeah. But I do think that this is the sort of game that Thomas Frank might excel in. I mean, we saw in the reverse fixture, didn't we, that probably Spurs' best performance of the season, certainly one of their best results of the season. So having to play as a reactive, slightly more defensive team at home isn't a disaster for this Tottenham team, I would suggest. OK, it worked for them.

43:10I was just going to say it worked for them in the first meeting at the Etihad back in August when they won 2-0. And Spurs are officially the fourth best team in Europe, as things stand. And City are only the eighth best team in Europe. So Spurs heavy favourites. Definitive. Definitive. Liam, you've got strong views on this game? Well, it just feels like the Champions League has been the only thing keeping Thomas Frank in a job now. So it's whether they can carry that momentum into the games that he actually needs for public opinion to sustain. Frank-furt midweek, Frank-hurt at the weekend, kind of.

43:47City will have their new signings, Mark Gay and Antoine Semenya available again, because, of course, they weren't registered for the Champions League midweek. Semenya, who's scored in three of his four City appearances thus far. Spurs have only won two of the last 14 in the Premier League. Two of 14. Yikes. Yeah, that's horrendous. And they've been particularly bad at home, haven't they? So it's, yeah, as Duncan says, maybe the style match-up will be exactly what Thomas Frank needs. Perhaps. City are currently four points behind Arsenal in the Premier League standings. City level with Villa. Villa will be at home to Brentford Sunday at two o 'clock, while Saturday 3 o 'clock sees Arsenal travelling to Leeds who have only lost one of their last 10 games.

44:30How dangerous a fixture is that for the Gunners and their lead? It feels very dangerous because, you know, domestically they are on this short but quite pronounced mini slump. Consecutive 0-0 draws against Liverpool and Forest and then the home defeat against United last weekend which felt very painful. I think, as we say almost every time we discuss Arsenal, Arsenal go into this kind of fixture this season, a post-Champions League fixture, in much better shape than they would have done 12 months ago because added to the fact that they'd already qualified prior to last night's game, Oteta could basically put out a reserve team so they will be able to put out their strongest first XI for this game.

45:19But yeah, Leeds were on a fantastic run, very difficult to beat at home. And, you know, in the league at least, Arsenal have not looked particularly convincing. One thing I would say, I thought Arteta's press conference the other day was very good. The one where you said about playing with enjoyment. The positivity. And, you know, I think that, I mean, it's a logical thing to say, but there was an awful lot of talk, and some of it on this podcast, about the psychological aspect with Arsenal. Are they going to bottle it? Are they going to crack again? We're all waiting for it to happen. And Arteta knows that that's the external noise, how to put it in LinkedIn terms.

46:04But at the same time, they are in a fantastic position. There's nothing to stop them having a fantastic end to the season. He just needs everyone to stay positive. High performance. Still alive in four different competitions. One Arsenal fan of our acquaintance, though, did say this week, if they lose against Leeds, I will sit my kids down and explain to them that there are no nice things for Arsenal in this campaign. They never really give the air of being a particularly joyful team. I mean, they're quite happy when they get a corner. But from open play, it just feels like they're extremely efficient and they know exactly what they're doing.

46:41And I think in that way, my memories of when Chelsea went to Leeds and got absolutely bullied, I think Arsenal are better equipped to stand up to that. They're a very physical team, very robust. Declan Rice in midfield as well. Who was obviously suspended for the Champions League, so is champing at the bit. I do think Arsenal, they're the best team away from home in the Premier League this season. Arteta referred the pressure they're feeling in home games from the fan base in Premier League matches. so I think that will help as well. As Tom said, they can bring in any number of players that are ready for it.

47:18And they're four points clear. They've still got a margin of a big error in them and they can't be caught. And I think we're a long way from William Gallas sitting down at St Andrews at the moment. But didn't that happen at pretty much exactly this time in the season? No, it was February. I'm thinking it happened a lot earlier than it needed to. It was like, oh, yeah, William Gallas has checked out on the title race. It was an odd moment. It seems quite alarming until you look at the table and you think, where's the pressure actually coming from other than the pressure Arsenal putting on the goals?

47:46The fact that their lead is shrinking. But I think even though with the backdrop of the number of times that Arsenal have been top at Christmas and let the lead slip away in the course of recent seasons, even though there is this question mark over mentality, flip that round, if they do win this game, what kind of a boost that would be for anyone who is short on confidence? With, as we said, City going to Spurs, who might be set up to give them more problems than they have most teams there. And we've got to remember that when a big club hasn't won the league for a long time, this is kind of what happens.

48:17Liverpool in 2013-14 panicked because they hadn't won it for so long, and there it was. Manchester United in 1991-92 blew it with similar issues. Even in 1993, when they finally won it, they really wobbled towards the end. Steve Bruce against Sheffield Wednesday rescuing them. So I think it's getting that monkey if you're back. I'm sure if Arsenal win the league this season, they'll find winning a second one less pressurised. There we go. Big ifs there. Aston Villa are taking on Brentford. Brentford beat Villa at the GTEC in August and also knocked them out of the Carabao Cup on penalties. A few weeks later, Villa's ranks depleted by the news that Uri Tielemans has joined John McGinn and Boubacar Kamara on their injury list.

49:03Hence the move to re-sign Douglas Luiz. Hmm. Hmm. Anyway, we'll see what happens in that game and report back to you on Sunday night. Other fixtures coming up at the weekend, though, include Forest Palace. I'm quite why I'm so excited about that. We'll be talking about it next.

49:30This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Listen, we do a lot of talking here, but right now we'd like to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about yourself and your podcast habits, and you can do that at theathletic.com slash survey26. Three lucky entries there will win£100 worth of Amazon vouchers. So whether you're a long-term listener or a new one, we'd love your feedback. Go to theathletic.com slash survey26. That's theathletic.com slash survey26. and the link is also in our episode description. Many thanks. Nottingham Forest taking on Crystal Palace Sunday at 2 o 'clock.

50:08Aren't Brighton, like that girl in the meme, watching her boyfriend turn around and gaze lustfully after another grudge derby opponent in the shape of Nottingham Forest? How much beef is there right now between Palace and Forest? There should probably be a boardroom cam, just in case. Just in case all the main players are in attendance. and I also feel like there's a non-zero chance that Jean-Philippe Mateta just does like WWE style whips off one shirt and just has the other one underneath. That would be magnificent. The Eagles coming into this game winless in their last 11 matches in all competitions.

50:47Forrest could potentially unleash their brand new signing, the 6ft 7 inch Lorenzo Luca, who apparently Forrest fans have already dubbed Pizza Crouch. have they tremendous that is one of the best new football nicknames I've heard in a while but it feels very product tie-in yeah right possibly so you think you see the it feels quite 1990 the stealthy hand of Papa John when teams would sign Benito Carboni and stuff they'd always he'd be there with a pizza literally I don't think people in England should be shocked that an Italian player is signing for a Primini team no so much so they have to create a zany nickname.

51:30But no, it's because he's very tall, isn't it? He's very tall and gangly. It's not just because he's Italian. We've moved on from the mid-90s. Then, if you were Italian, then you were welcome with spaghetti. Now, if you're Italian and you resemble a treasured former English Premier League player, you get a more inventive nickname. If you're any enterprising pizzeria in Nottingham, though, it's just, you know what your next move is. Yeah. What would you put on the pizza crotch? tall animals leeks leeks yeah why leeks they're very tall is it the tallest vegetable celery tall produce celery or maybe you make the pizza tall sort of the pizza standing on its end okay I'm going to move on like a propped up calzone like a propped up calzone is is is is is is Jean-Philippe Mateta soon going to be finding himself a new nickname at the siege ground as well possibly and it's strange because Palace are the biggest ex-GN Hakuna Mateta, that's what I go with.

52:28Trent. Matrenta, no. But he's not been very good this season. So, I mean, he has still scored goals, but he's missed a lot of chances. Suggestion he's been playing with an injury as well, that's true. Again, not generally the moment you sign a player for a lot of money. Palace weren't terrible against Chelsea last weekend, and the game was actually quite even until a catastrophic back pass by Jadie Cambo that allowed Estevão to run through and score Chelsea's first. But, you know, Palace are getting players back from either injury or the AFCON. Daniel Munoz was back last week. Ishmael Lessar is back.

53:10OK, Brennan-Johnson is yet to catch fire. But there are reasons to think that they might be about to shake themselves out of this rut. You just have to wonder how much of a cloud the whole Oliver Glasner frame of mind is. I mean, it doesn't happen, does it? Yeah. And for players, I've always seen many times when they know a manager is going at the end of the season, it's not like, I'll give an extra 3%. And it's not like they were playing really well and then the manager announced he was off and then they stopped winning games. They were on a dreadful run and the manager said, well, OK, I'm off.

53:38And the recent resurgence of both West Ham and Forest is a concern for Spurs and Palace and Leeds because we could be looking at a fairly high, we could be looking at the mythical, you need 40 points to stay up season, which hasn't happened for a long time. As it stands Forest are first above the bottom three but they're five points clear Leeds are only a point above them and Palace are themselves. Palace and Spurs yeah, both eight points away but given their recent trajectories, things as you say could get quite delicate Man United are hosting Fulham on Sunday, that's fourth against seventh by contrast Michael Carrick looking to make it three wins in a row.

54:21Feels like potential early banana skin. I don't know whether you can have a potential banana skin after two games of a managerial tenure. Well, a lot of the reaction to those very successful first-year games was those are the kind of games that United do tend to win. It's the Fulhams that represent the truer tests. So we'll find out what the answer is. Obviously a fixture with heritage in those terms because in 2013-14 under David Moyes, Manchester United put in 83 crosses against Fulham and a young Dan Byrne headed most of them away. Dan Byrne's origin story. Yeah, he said that day it was like being back in the conference.

54:59Did he say that? It's like Dan Byrne's Christmas, that is. An opponent who can only cross the ball. Yeah. Just had him away. They don't have him now, but they do have the Premier League's best player in Harry Wilson. That is true. That's two o 'clock on Sunday. the other fixtures this weekend well shout out for Chelsea's derby with West Ham the Hammers who are bidding to break out of the bottom three and have put together three wins in a row with Crescensio Somerville scoring in all three of those victories Chelsea potentially tired from their Wednesday night activities but looking re-energized in other ways by the arrival of Liam Rosseña, the reactive Liam Rosseña, on their bench.

55:45So that's Saturday tea time. He can become only the fourth English manager in Premier League history to win his first three games in the competition. Really? Who were the other three? We've got classic names like Shakespeare, Brackets Craig, Big Sam and Bobby Gould. What a triumvirate that is. I mean, I would like to see Big Sam and Liam Rosseña on a podcast discussing the intricacies of the game. Given the number of football podcasts there are, I'm surprised it hasn't happened. Perhaps the premier fixture in terms of legacy this weekend is Liverpool and Newcastle, which famously ends 4-3. Oh, look at this.

56:24The Magpies haven't won a league match at Anfield since April 1994. What was number one, Liam? April 1994. I can tell you that Rob Lee and Andy Cole were on the score sheet. Saturday Night by Wigfield. No. Although that is when this game was taking place, so half a point. If only it had been. I was five years old, so I'd only been meticulously following the pop charts for two years.

56:541994, a big act of the 90s, a big British act of that period. Where were? No. UB40? No. 1994 it was Take That Pray maybe No Everything Changes Not one of the better songs Not Newcastle's record at Anfield Producer Charlie made this very point whoever's doing the match that intro if for example Jonathan Pearce is on Anfield Duties Everything Changes was number one Obviously Pearce was probably doing Robot Wars Wow Such a thing as research What's going to happen when Liverpool take on Newcastle? We don't know. Newcastle had a 4-3 recently. And Liverpool are letting too many goals in. The original 4-3, one of the best games in rugby history.

57:48And then the fact that the following season also ended 4-3 and then tricked Sky into thinking that it would always... I think they showed that fixture every year without fail. They never gave it up. It's like, it's going to end 4-3. At some point. Or the second that they don't, of course, it'll happen again. Wasn't the most recent meeting between these teams, the crazy Rio and Gamora winner as well? It was. 3-2. Yeah. Not 4-3, though. Not yet. But a step in the right direction. Good knowledge, Liam. What's going to happen this time? Goals, I think. Right, there you go. We have to say. And almost certainly in Wolves-Bourmouth, Bournemouth, rather, and Brian Everton.

58:25Wolves-Bourmouth is Saturday, 3 o 'clock. Great escape. It's on. Wolves are one win away. from equaling Derby's points tally, but a significant distance from safety. One, two, three, four, 17 points to make up in what's left of the season. They've so far picked up eight. And a 17-goal difference deficit as well. Ooh, also that. They are taking on a Bournemouth team who've only won once away from home all season, and that was against Spurs. So, Brighton Everton is Saturday, 3 o 'clock as well. Everton had a 1-1 draw at home to Leeds on Monday with yet another goal from Tieno Barry. Tom, you always knew, didn't you?

59:11Yes, big time. I mean, yeah, he had a decent under 21 euros with France last summer and scored a respectable amount of goals at Villarreal. Was it Villarreal? Yeah, was it Villarreal? And I think it's notable that Everton fans seem to take to him really quickly. We know that centre-forward has been a problem position for Everton ever since Romelu Lukaku left, pretty much. And you could have been forgiven for thinking that Barry was going to be the latest in a long line of putative new number nines who were just not going to score many goals because he really struggled to begin with. But fans didn't get on his back.

59:48I think they appreciated how hard he was working and the fact that his head wasn't going down. And now suddenly it's four goals in five games and they look like they might actually have a decent centre forward on their hands. Good Lord. Magnificent. So they'll be at the Amex. Where they won? 1-0 last season. They won 5-1 there a couple of seasons ago under Dykesh as he kept them up. So they do have a reasonable record on the South Downs. Right. Last season's victory, Soylman and Jai score, after which he was booked on a charge of impersonating a seagull, which is not something you see every day.

1:00:22Anyway. Yeah, I don't agree with that. Well, talking of impersonating seagulls, Fabian Herzler under a little bit of pressure a few murmurings because they're dropping? you're accusing him of impersonating Siegel manager, yeah Sunderland hosts Burnley on Monday night and the Black Cats are now one of only two sides anywhere in English League football who haven't lost at home this season the other ones being League 2 leaders Bromley Bromley are in League 2 doing well, top, flying yeah I wouldn't have guessed Sunderland and Bromley as the two last remaining records, but here we are. And here we are.

1:00:57That's the magic of football. They should have a playoff at the end of the season and whoever wins gets to keep their home stadium. Well, there's swap stadiums. Swap stadiums. They probably can have the stadium alike. Yeah, they probably win. And Southern will have the choice if they win. There are no bad ideas, especially in football. Very good. That is where we get to the end of today's show. As mentioned, we're back on Friday with our Champions League draw. review shows so I do hope you'll be joining us for that for now it's many many thanks to Liam Toomey pleasure James hope we'll be seeing you again soon I hope so if you'll have me Tom we will be seeing you again soon will indeed and Duncan soonish to Jake and producer Charlie in the booth many thanks and to you viewers and listeners see you soon maybe Friday for now from all of us here it's goodbye

1:01:50you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for other great podcasts just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic in all the usual places we're also at the totally show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production

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