Champions League play-offs begin, PSG shocked by Rennes + chaos in Derby D'Italia

0:00The Athletic FC

0:09Totally Football Show, European edition today Champions League, the playoffs Roberto Di Zerbi, the payoff Derby d 'Italia, Kalula Mazzata Hansi Flick and Barca, hot potata With the latest from Ligue 1's Real honest to goodness title race And so much more, it's another bursting at the seams edition On the Totally Football Show

0:43Monday, 16th of February, and it's a totally football show European edition with the new classic line-up. James Horncastle. Hello. Tom Williams. Hello, James. Seb Stafferblor. Hey, Jimbo. All right. And Paul Belouse. Hello, hello, everyone. Hello, hello to you, Paul. Paul and James, I was a bit late for the studio today. A little bit late. My apologies for that. Apologies, listener. But you know what? Sometimes, you know, cloud silver lining, et cetera, and me not being here meant that some proper chat could develop. Oh, yeah. In which we discovered that vermoot and vermouth are not the same thing, Tom.

1:26No. So careful when you're ordering things. Your drinks, right. Right. So, James, you've been learning how to make a Spanish omelette with vermouth, but not vermouth. Yeah, I mean, it's a Paul specialty. Is it Paul? If Paul had us over to his place in Barcelona, whilst he was cooking something, he would prepare a snack, the vermouth, which is, you know, get some crisps, put some olives on top, drain the olives. Drain the olives. Put some pickled mussels on top. on top of the olives on top of the crisps and then put some hot sauce on the top as well damn mix it all together and whilst Paul is doing I don't know gambas ayahe or whatever he's doing we can just pick at that whilst we go that's a crazy combination I wonder who stumbled on that mussels and olives would you eat a vermouth while drinking a vermouth Paul?

2:23do they go together? oh really? that's actually the reason why it's called a vermouth, because it's the sort of activity that you do while drinking a vermouth. What kind of activity do you do while drinking a vermouth, Tom? I just stare blankly into space, because I was convinced that the universe hadn't yet come up with an appropriate activity to go alongside it. Now I know. I can think of plenty. Sitting on the deck of my yacht, for example. That would be one. What's your yacht called, James? Sorry? What's your yacht called? I don't want to be pestered again at the marina so but this stems from James you were watching a Vogue feature where celebrity type folk are invited to name their kind of signature dish or cocktail and essentially show how to do it and Paul that's what Paul would do while he was preparing Paul was not the subject in the Vogue video interview.

3:25Although he could be friends with the person who was. Paul knows for two years since we were at the Euros together that I'm a big Rosalia fan. Right. And so it was very much Rosalia doing this. Okay. So, yeah, I think I pestered Paul at like 2 o 'clock in the morning one time, say if I translated the Rosalia lyric correctly. Right. So there you go. Had he translated it correctly, Paul? I mean, I'm always welcome to this sort of like request from James. Yes. I'm happy with that. How would you rate his translation? I think he did quite well, to be honest. Okay, but the big question is, what was the line, and who was he translating it for?

4:01I can't remember what the line was, but it was after Spain had absolutely demolished Italy. You wanted it for a little bit of texture for an article. And she has this song about, is it Versace or something like that? I can't remember what it is. Anyway, Paul and I were in Gelsenkirchen. As we've already established, there's not much to do in Gelsenkirk. And apart from at two o 'clock in the morning, ask each other for translation or lyrics from Rosalia. So there you go. She wrote a song called La Combi Versace. That's it. There you go. La Combi Versace. What does that mean then, Paul? So the Versace combination, basically.

4:38There you go. I can remember that. I think that you mixed that Rosalia lyrics with Nico Williams, which was quite of an effort. Really good effort. That does sound like classic Horncastle. Sorry, the Spanish Nico Williams. Before even getting out of bed, he's already mixing Catalan lyrics with Nico Williams. I was trying to make a connection with the Nottingham Forest Nico Williams. That would have been even more out there. Who I like to think of as the real Nico Williams. Yeah, Nico. There is conjecture about that. Spelled with a N-E-C-O. Sebo, on behalf of Vogue, when they come calling for your photo shoot with Seb in the kitchen rustling up something for his special guest, what are you going to go to?

5:16I'm going to go actually I am going to go with my wife's chocolate cheese cheesecake surely that's your wife's signature we've already established last week that uh Seb sort of you know he's a traditional man he's a trap man he's modern but still traditional and that was a that was a highlight of my weekend right so I don't drink so I don't know you don't have to make it you can make a dish actually is You can make a dish, but I think the one stipulation would be that you do it rather than any associated member of your family. I can make a very good roast. Okay, there you go. I'm that guy who does very little cooking, but then on Christmas Day, you can drop into the kitchen, can time everything pretty well, not ruin the potatoes, do a pretty good job with the meat, and make sure it's not a disaster.

6:06Wow. Which I think, I'm not sure what the word for that skill is, but I think it is a skill. I want to take you home, Seb Stafferblur. those are those are those are some words for you those are those are big skills such a toxic work environment this isn't it alright then moment of the week alright Tom what have you got um moment of the week for me this week comes from the moments after the final whistle in Lyon's 2-0 win over Nice on Sunday evening Lyon's 13th win in a row in all competitions one off the club record which was set when they were the best club in France and one of the best clubs in Europe in 2006, I think.

6:49Had this fantastic run, very complicated start to the season as discussed on previous pods, the threat of relegation to Ligue 2, the financial issues, selling all their best players and the fact that Pano Fonseca, their head coach, was banned for months for screaming in the face of a referee which he rightly got an awful lot of stick for. And so this season started and he was having to watch all of Lyon's Liga matches from up in the press box. Just already, that's punishment enough having to watch all of Lyon's Liga. Well, there you go. Well, not this season. And as of a couple of months ago, he's now back on the touchline and masterminding this absolutely remarkable season.

7:27And after the game last night, the players were out on the pitch saluting the home fans and they kind of pushed Fonseca forward to get his little moment. And the Lyon fans were singing his name and they had a Bravo Fonseca banner as well. And he got quite emotional, got quite teary-eyed. He had a Leon scarf in his hand that he was kind of twirling in the air around his head. And it feels like his redemption arc is taking shape with each passing week. Because the reason that he was banned was that he had done something completely unacceptable. He rightly had the book thrown at him. but he's kind of turning things around a little bit.

8:11You think when someone does something unacceptable to throw a book at them, literally. Yeah. I wonder where that comes from. Different times is where it comes from. Different times. 13 straight wins, one away from the record. Yes. And now five points clear of Marseille in the race for third place. We'll hear about Marseille. Lyon next weekend facing Gary O 'Neill's Strasbourg. A 13-game winning streak, still not enough to get yourself ahead of PSG. It is not yet. Or Lens, who are actually on top of the table. We'll talk about all of that. Hey, James, what about your moment of the week? Well, a poisonous weekend, James, in Serie A.

8:54The most heated rivalry in Italian football, or at least the teams that hate each other most, I would say, Juventus Inter. I can't believe City Ad decided to schedule this on Valentine's Day sort of a day of love and they wanted to bring hate together another great game in this fixture I must say over the last 18 months we've had a 4-all, 4-3 this was a 3-2 which was decided in the last minute but if you listen to Juventus particularly Giorgio Chiellini and their chief executive David Miancamoli it was decided actually in the 42nd minute when Alessandro Bastoni, the inter-centre-back, dived in order to get Pierre Calullo sent off and then celebrated the referee's decision to send him off, which has led to a former prime minister of Italy to say that Bastoni should not be called up for the World Cup playoffs.

9:48It's led to all kinds of crazy hyperbole. How did he celebrate it? I've not seen the footage. Was it just a kind of clenched fist? Like he'd beaten PSG in the Champions League final in Munich. that much. Well, the thing was, I mean, this was one of the big talking points of the week, if not the season. Because as you say, it was an absolutely brilliant game. The classic slice of Serie A, Demian Camoli afterwards saying, we lost three points, but Italian football lost much more. I'm not sure that I agree because I think for a lot of people, that's exactly what you want. And for fans of a certain age, and I wonder if a certain Ronaldo was watching this and what he might have thought if he might have allowed himself of a wry smile at the sight of a big clash between Juve and Inter being decided by a refereeing decision and a clearly wrong one that goes against Juve after what had happened to him famously back in the day.

10:42But I mean, we can talk about the mechanics of it now. We can save that for later on. But it was a it was a special Saturday night. Yeah. And yeah, Gattuso has confirmed that Bastogne will be called up, though, for those crucial playoffs. I mean, it would be an incredibly Italian, sort of self-harming, sort of like, let's take arguably our best centre-back out. Like that time when they decided to ban people for blaspheming. Yes. It was this curious run. It was a couple of seasons worth. From time to time, if someone said Porto Corzio, but the offensive version, they would go, yeah, well, you can't play football for five games until you learn your lesson.

11:20Anyway, fabulous. Go to church. Yeah, we'll talk more about the Derby d 'Italia and related topics very, very shortly. Seb? Yeah, Friday night, Jim, but I just want to highlight something really great that Borussia Dortmund did. So ahead of their game with Mainz, which they won 4-0 for Julian Ryerson assists. Brilliant, well done. They actually had a free screening for testicular cancer. So it was in conjunction with the local university hospital. We had little screening centres set up at every corner of the ground. The first 250 people who went in got a free signed match ball by the first team squad.

11:56Balls for balls, as the campaign was known. And I spoke to the club this morning and they say that over 500 people were screened. So well done, because that's a really great local initiative. And obviously the club have a history with the illness because of Sebastian Hilaire and what he went through. So very, very well done to them. Excellent. Did you go to the game, Seb? I did not. No, because it is such a great thing to do. But I don't know, when you say they had screening, how do they do it? They have little tents at the different corners. I think you just queue up and you go through. It's entirely private.

12:27Yeah. But, yeah, it's the most common cause of cancer among young men. Is it very simple to get yourself checked, Seb? Apparently so. Get some very cold hands laid on you. On a cold Friday night in early February, you probably want a heater in there. But, yeah. Okay. Can you imagine stumbling into, actually, the bar room by accident? You know, get a different kind of thing. Paul's already propered. Take eight minutes and they wouldn't come up with any kind of conclusion. Yeah. Paul Belus. My word. Where was it we had an eight minute? Was it? It was in La Liga, wasn't it? That we had an eight minute...

13:06It's the boss. No, no, no. It was in the Barcelona Atletico Madrid game. That was incredible. Anyway, I'm sure that wasn't your many moments of the week, but what would you pick? I was tempted to go to Atletico Madrid because I was at that game, but I'm going to stick with the Valencia derby. Valencia-Arbi against Levante and Valencia, both teams playing for their lives in the relegation battle. And basically Valencia won with two goals in the second half and the first goal, possibly the best goal I've seen in this weekend for the whole sequence of movements. There's Javi Guerra, just basically a Valencia midfielder getting the ball on one side of the pitch, just gliding past two of the Levante players, just going to the other box, pass the ball to Omar Sadiq, cross, and from the edge of the box, Largi Ramazani, the former Leeds player, just volley, top corner, outstanding goal.

14:22But the most, like, not important thing, but the thing that made the headlines in that game was that after the match, one of the Valencia players, Ereit Chomert, went to the corner flag, took the corner flag, put the Valencia shirt on it, and then started waving it in front of the Levante fans. And it all went off, basically. All the Levante players going there, all the Levante staff going there, Valencia plays, trying to push people away. And the waters calmed down a bit. Erechomert walked down the tunnel. He was thrown like a dozen of bottles of waters onto his head from the stands. And that was it.

14:59Valencia, at the end, got their result. They're out of the relegation zone right now. And Levante is still pretty much on it. Yeah. Valencia with a two-point margin over the bottom three. Levante in penultimate place. They are fully seven points from safety, so quite a dramatic result in terms of their survival hopes. Excellent. Coming up this week, Tuesday, Wednesday, it's Champions League first legs of the playoffs. In fact, this going out on Tuesday this afternoon, we'll see Galatasaray hosting Juventus in Istanbul. Then at eight o 'clock, you've got Benfica against Real Madrid. Richard Dortmund against Atalanta.

15:43and Monaco against Paris Saint-Germain. UEFA have stuck all the good games on Tuesday evening because on Wednesday you've got early doors, the 5.45 slot, Carabaig against Newcastle United, and then at 8, Bodo-Glimp against Inter, Club Bruges against Atletico, Olympiacos against Bayern. All decent fixtures, but those three ones on the Tuesday, how can you possibly choose? Tom, what are you going to go for? You'll be Monaco PSG-ing it up, will you? I will inevitably be Monaco v PSG-ing it up, but keeping a close eye on the other fixtures, I'm sure. Yeah, first ever meeting in European competition, Monaco and PSG.

16:24And there's no historical rivalry between these two clubs. They both have other rivals. But there's a kind of rivalry of glamour that's always existed because PSG, as the club of the capital, have always been the standard bearers for Paris as a city. One of the world's most glamorous cities. But then Monaco is Monaco. You know, the casinos, the yachts. I don't need to tell you about that, James. So you've got this sort of, you know, this kind of, yeah, glamorous edge to things. And there are quite a lot of players who played for both clubs over the years. And it's a game that's happening at a really interesting juncture because Monaco have been absolutely wretched and then have suddenly started to turn a bit of a corner the last few weeks, look a little bit more solid.

17:10and PSG go into this off the back of a surprise 3-1 defeat at Rennes on Friday night. Ousmane Dembele pointing the finger at unnamed teammates after the game for putting themselves ahead of the team out of the Coupe de France only in second in Ligue 1. And so there are question marks around PSG. I mean, they are still overwhelming favourites and I suspect they will probably qualify quite easily. But, no. But the record away at Monaco is not great. Just one win from their last six visits there, Tom. Yeah, and this has been at a time when they've not always been playing a great Monaco. You go back to the most recent meeting between the sides at the end of November, and Monaco were in the early stages of this remarkable sequence of seven defeats in eight Ligue 1 games.

17:58A sequence of defeats that has completely ruined their season in the sense that they're completely out of contention for Champions League qualification, struggling to get into the European places, And yet they managed to beat a very strong PSG team. And not by playing sort of back-to-the-wall football. You know, it was quite an open-ended game. And they gave as good as they got and came away with a 1-0 win. So, you know, they've proven that even at their lowest ebb this season, they're capable of beating PSG. And there are these question marks about PSG. And, you know, every time we've discussed PSG on the pod of late, it all goes back to this question.

18:32Is the magic still there? And if it is, when are we going to see it? And we've seen little glimpses of it. There was the 5-0 win over Marseille the previous weekend, the 3-0 win over Lille. Ousmane Dembele has been scoring some beautiful goals of late, but it's just, it's kind of, it's a half of football at a time. It's a half an hour, you know, purple patch. And they're really struggling to do that consistently. At the same time, we know that the Champions League is, for the players in particular, the ultimate objective. So you would hope that if they are going to turn up at some point this season and rekindle some of the magic of 12 months ago, it will be, or at least it will start in these two games against Monaco.

19:11Maybe on Tuesday night, we'll see that magic. What are you going to be tuning in for, Seb, on Tuesday night? Dortmund-Atlanta, Jimbo. I think that's really, really interesting. Also, not for the first time in this Champions League season, Dortmund are nursing a little bit of a defensive injury crisis. So Niki Sule is going to be missing. We found out this morning that Nico Schlotterbeck missed Dortmund's last training session ahead of the game. So chances are he's not going to be involved. And Daniel Svensson, he's suspended following that red card against Tottenham. So chances are we're going to see a very, very patchwork side.

19:43We might also see a Champions League debut for Luca Reggiani, who's an 18-year-old who got his Bundesliga debut at the weekend, actually. So let's see. It's a hell of a moment to get your first start as a senior. Indeed, it's Dortmund's second game at home. to a side from Lombardy wearing black and blue stripes. Of course, Inter went there not long ago. Won 2-0, didn't they, James? How do Atalanta look? Pretty good, I'd say, given their recent results. Yeah, I mean, they've won three straight, haven't they? Knocked Juve out of the cup. Was that 3-0? Comprehensively, 3-0. Although, Juventus played well in that game.

20:19It was more that Atalanta kind of just really picked their moments. Then this weekend, they beat Lazio 2-0, who are, funnily enough, their opponents in the next round of the cup. Yeah, so, I mean, they have really picked themselves up from their last two games in the Champions League, which were surprising defeats to Athletic, Klub and Union Saint-Germain. They are still very much a cup team, I think, you know, on their day. They fancy themselves against anybody. They certainly showed that. Against Juve, Skamak has been back, scoring amongst the goals. Kristevic, who they signed to replace Rotege, has been sort of picking up the odd goal here or there as well.

20:59They haven't really missed Ademolo Lukman. Yeah, they've been playing Zaleski, who was part of the Roma team that won the Conference League a few years ago, as a sort of number 10, which is the role he used to play in Roma's academy. And Zaleski's been looking good there. So no, I think this game holds some bad memories for Matalan, in the early Gasparini days where they played Europa League and they were knocked out by Dortmund. And that was, I think, their kind of classic Illich side. So there's an element of institutional memory there with the likes of Martin de Rouen and that sort of thing, who were part of that team.

21:41But I still think on their day, I actually think they'd back themselves to prevail in this encounter. Will you be tuning into that? Will you be tempted? Tempted by Benfica Real Madrid on the other side. Paul, Benfica, Real Madrid. Yes, let's see. I'm just ready for Real Madrid's thrashing of Benfica. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I think that's what is going to happen. Why? So they lost their 4-2 last time they went a couple of weeks ago. Why are they going to thrash them this time? I think that being realistic, I don't see Benfica bettering Real Madrid out in three games, It's practically consecutive.

22:22And then I think that the vibes around Real Madrid are much better. They won 4-1 against Real Sociedad on the weekend. Good performance. The players look a bit more comfortable with the manager right now. Of course, it can change in a quick bit. But I think that Real Madrid are sort of finding something that balance them a little bit. I'm not going to say that they are becoming a brilliant team because they're not. But that should be enough just to go through. Last week there was even a cena de conjura, which is a word that is quite used here in Spanish media. Crisps with olives and some pickled mussels, no?

23:03I think that there was a bit more than that, because Raul Asencio was filmed leaving the restaurant at 3 a.m. So I don't think that he only had like... What was it, lunch? No, I think it wasn't a lunch, yeah. A bit more vermouth than vermouth, by the sound of things. Yeah. Right. So did they do one of those classic get-together in a restaurant to form a bit of bonding? Yes, get-together. A bit of bonding. Benicio and Mbappe paid, apparently. And, yeah, just to get together, just to raise the spirit, just to show that they are really unified and everything ahead of the Champions League time. All right.

23:39Well, sure, we're all going to be keeping an eye on the score from that game, ready to jump across whatever match we start out watching. 8 o 'clock on Tuesday. Wednesday, as I mentioned, Carabao, Newcastle, United, which should be really interesting, I think. Both debutants at this stage of the Champions League. Newcastle win this in three of the four away matches in Europe this term, but they looked impressive away at Paris Saint-Germain on their most recent European road trip. Can they do that in Azerbaijan? I don't know. Wednesday we discover. Boto-Glimm, Inter, always fun, Bruges, Atletico Madrid, Olympique Arcos, Bayer Leverkusen.

24:12We'll touch on all those fixtures probably in the course of today's show, but we're going to begin today with that Derby d 'Italia. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. Missek, who opens, Zilinski, try Zilinski! 3-2 Zilinski, finds space for the winning conclusion, right at the 90th, he brings Come on, Lintens. But it's a bit of a potiferia, right? The potiferia. Wow. Crazy, crazy scene Saturday. Shoving and pushing. Camole being held back by Luciano Spalletti. Yeah. All sorts of drama and skirmishes in the tunnel. And the Juve directors leaving their seats in San Siro early because of the volume of venom that was being held there.

25:04And invective as well. Well, I don't think they could leave early because when Zielinski scored, the fans around them turned and verbally attacked them. It's pretty fruity. Very, very fruity. Let's talk about the Kalula decision, which VAR couldn't intervene on because it was a second yellow. Basically, this is what? 42nd minute, the scoreline is 1-1, and Bastoni, who was on a yellow, crosses the path of Pierre Kalula, who was also on a yellow, and dives spectacularly. And I've got to say, as dives go, it was brilliant. It really, really looks like he's absolutely taken him out. And the referee understandably reaches for a yellow card.

25:49But then, of course, you see the replay, and Bastogne's absolutely done him. Yeah. Yeah. And, look, I think he's a very, very good centre-back. I find him quite charismatic. We've done a few of those media days before into the Champions League finals, and I always think he comes across authoritatively. He's got a bit of swagger about him, but he also likes to dive. I mean, this is not the first time he's dived and you just don't associate diving with centre-backs. It's not the first time this season I've seen him celebrate a decision that's gone against another team. That is one of the reasons why the reaction has been so vociferous to it.

26:30Unsporting behaviour, lots of ex-pros saying, we don't like to see that do we? Ex-politicians or current politicians weighing in on this and I think it was also because Bastoni chose not to speak after the game he could have come out and basically said yeah I've done him there, doesn't look great but ultimately win a title race did what I needed to get the three points blah blah blah just left it for his coach Christian Kivu to sort of turn the other cheek and make excuses for him and say oh yeah I mean, when Inter were playing Liverpool and Alessandro grabbed Florian Wurtz's shirt and Wurtz went down way too easily, I did tell him, I was like, well, you've given the referee a decision to make there.

27:13And he said, well, when Kalulu puts his arm across Bastoni, it's a very light arm that he puts across. So he withdraws immediately. He's given him a decision to make. And it's like, oh, come on, Kivu, come on. That was the big refereeing controversy. Obviously, I see that the international refereeing boards say that they are actually looking to change the rule about VAR's intervention on second yellow so that for the World Cup, possibly earlier, they will bring more VAR into the game. Yeah, but I mean, this was the clearest and most obvious error you can get. I mean, it's not even subjective because there is no contact.

27:50The camera behind the challenge shows that there's no leg to leg, there's no entanglement, there's nothing. and it just, yeah, it seems strange in an era in which we are, we're often at war over what is clear and obvious. Right. That the clearest and most obvious thing that a VAR could do to help a referee, he wasn't able to do it. To Juve's credit, despite going down to 10 men, they still made a real game of it. Pio Esposito, who does look to be the real deal, put into 2-1 up, I think it was the name, and then it was Cambiasso with a lovely strike to make it 2-2. Locatelli oh sorry it was Locatelli right and 2-2 until the 89th minute when Zielinski stepped up I mean he got the ball around his own penalty area lovely little turn to put it on his favoured foot and struck a long shot hard and low past Michele Di Gregorio and I mean this was one of the great things about the game was that even in 11v10 and at 1-1, you could see Kivu was like, okay, we have to take this game by the scruff of the neck.

29:02We have to win it. And, you know, put three strikers on, you know, left Turam, Lautaro, where they were, brought on Pio Esposito, brought on Chalinole for Borella. Borella was not happy about that at all. Basically, he takes his shin pads out, throws them at the advertising hoarding. But he did it because he wanted Chalinole and Zielinski on the pitch because both of them can score from distance. And in the end, the winning goal is Zielinski still being there and putting it past Di Gregorio for a famous and poisonous 3-2 win. Al Valeno. They are eight points clear of Milan now. Milan have a game in hand which they're going to be playing this Wednesday against Como.

29:42That's right, at San Siro. The game that was supposed to be held in Western Australia. Yep. Milan who had a 2-1 victory over Pisa, a game which saw Loftus-Cheek scoring. Yeah. And then Nicolas Fulcrook, missing a penalty. And then Maiola equalising for Pisa. And then, dun-dun-dun, the third oldest goal ever scored by a Milan player in history, Luka Modric. Yeah, lovely finish. Sort of give and go on the edge of the box. And then sort of gives the goalkeeper the eyes and does what Modric does, which is sort of outside of the foot, sort of dink. and yeah the Milan fans the travelling Milan fans at the Garibaldi were adapting that song that the Napoli fans used to sing for Diego Maradona about you know essentially seeing a deity you know and being like oh mum mum my heart's beating mum mum I've seen Maradona I've seen Modric mum much easier to rhyme Maradona than Modric so kudos to those Milan fans it didn't rhyme Tom but they still sang it it's more modern if it doesn't rhyme so Milan need to win that if there's going to be any kind of title race a game against Como Wednesday night is that fair?

30:59yes and they did beat Como not too long ago in a game that Como absolutely dominated and Milan somehow found a way to win that game 3-1 one of the somehows was their goalkeeper Mike Mignon who made several big saves in that game So, yeah, but it does look like the writing is on the wall. I mean, I think that's why Bastoni acted in the way that he did. It's because Inter will stop at nothing to win this title. They've lost a couple on the final day in 2022 and 2025. Otherwise, they would have won, I think, four of the last six. And I think this Inter team has been the team of this decade in Serie A, and yet they have relatively little to show for it.

31:46Right. Okay. Team of the decade to team of the decade.

31:54I haven't got anywhere to go with that. Which is the team of the decade? To be honest, next I was going to mention the Derby del Sud, Napoli Rama, but it's not really fair to label either of those sides. Napoli's injury crisis continues at a pace with Rahmani, the latest one to go out for them. but they did have an exciting new face for the second time in recent weeks. They had an exciting new face to thank for, well, to celebrate. Alisson Santos, who came on and really set up the draw. It ended up a 2-2 draw. Brilliant work from Daniel Marlin to put Roma 2-0 up. Marlin, who I must say has had an incredible impact since he joined from Aston Villa.

32:38He scored five in six games. Only Batistuta has done better. Six and six. Right. Brian Zaragoza as well, setting up the first of those. Yeah, diminutive Zaragoza. And so Roma looked good, felt that they had done enough to win this game. I think they were third. They leapfrog Juventus and Napoli. And then, as you mentioned, James, this guy fresh off the plane from Brazil, Alisson Santos, comes on real live wire. He looks good. Yeah, a lot of pace to him. Diminutive, a lot of hair. There's something Vinny Jr. almost about him. Yeah, and a lot of criticism at Napoli's sporting director Giovanni Mano.

33:20It's like, oh, you know, your team was in a title challenge. It's been decimated by injury. You know, you're under this transfer embargo probably because you didn't do your strategy right last summer. They could only find these no-name Brazilians. You know, you've overpaid for one. Agent fee for another is ludicrous. and well Alisson Santos comes on and basically gets them a point in a quite entertaining 2-2 draw Excellent Well it leaves Napoli third place three points behind Milan as it stands Roma are still in the top four Juve after that defeat a point behind them just outside the Champions League positions Champions League then Juve how do you feel about their chances away in Istanbul Tuesday afternoon?

34:06I think they've been playing really really good football even though results haven't gone their way that loss to Atalanta, the draw to Lazio and then this defeat I don't think they deserve to be on the losing side in any of those games this is obviously we touched upon this when the draw was made bad memories for Juventus going to Istanbul in the snow, the game being abandoned then replayed the next day, Galatasaray only ploughing one end of the pitch and it was the end that Juventus were attacking Galatasaray Port Conte is Juve out so bad memories there I think there are a few players who were injured who were not in the squad I think Jonathan David has not flown to Istanbul that was the talk this morning so I think of the Italians this is maybe the biggest trap game as much as we're sending myself to into Bodo are you?

34:57I'm not going to Bodo I'm going to the second leg in anticipation there might be a shock there but apparently there's been as you can imagine lots of snow in the Arctic Circle. Has there? And, you know, sort of, they've been ploughing and ploughing. Their plastic pitch. But I suppose, the thing you've got to hope for if you're Bodo is like the performance they put in against Man City. If they put in a performance like that and get a result like that, when they go away to San Siro, they can maybe do something. But, you know, Inter, I still think very much the best team in Italy at this moment. All right.

35:32Galatasaray-Juve, the big danger game in terms of Italian prospects. We'll talk maybe more a little bit about the Atalanta trip to Dortmund later on, but that's where we'll park Serie A for now. Credit to Fiorentina. Maybe a quick shout for Fiorentina. They're still in the thick of the relegation battle, but a big win against Como this weekend. Yeah, unexpected in some respects because of how good Como have been at home, particularly this season. You know, Cesc Fabregas falling out with one of Paul's friends, Alvaro Morata. Morata you know sort of the most experienced player on the pitch getting himself off sent off and uh and yeah Cesc was like come on man like how old are you like so yeah but uh Como the thing is they had had a very good week because they knocked Napoli out of the the cup they reached the semi-finals for the first time in 40 years and and you know Cesc was like we have to focus for Fiorentina, but clearly I think they've had quite a good night on the vermouth after that Copper Italian win.

36:35Right, right. Excellent. Okay, lovely stuff, James. Many thanks for that. Next up, let's head to La Liga.

36:48This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Hey, Real Madrid are top, Paul Belus, but only because Barcelona haven't played yet. They're playing Monday night tonight as we record and you're heading off there in a second. Exactly. Just as we finish that, I'm going to take the car and just drive to Girona for a game that Barcelona have a lot to play for because they come from possibly the worst game that they've ever played on the Hansi Flick.

37:26Wow. You're referring to their Copa del Rey semifinal against Atletico Madrid? Yeah, the first leg of the semifinal, yeah. 4-0 to Atleti in the first half. Woof. And I would say that the 4-0 was still like a mild result for Barcelona. It could have been like a 6-0, 7-0. Yeah. In a way, it might have been coming because Barca's offside trap has been challenged a lot of times, but now it was challenged from a proper team who really had a plan and just dismantled them. And yeah, Atletico de Madrid, in a way, it's fun to see the games that they've played this month because they won 5-0 against Real Betis.

38:09They won 4-0 against Barcelona, but they lost against Rayo Vallecano and lost against Real Betis. But yeah, Barcelona pretty much on the spot now. But this issue of managing to do the high defensive line and the press, when you have key players out like Pedri and Rafinha, we've seen them come unstuck. Against Club Bruges in the Champions League, against Sevilla in La Liga. And so you were reporting that the players decided to have a word with Hansi about this and whether this high-line business was quite the way forward. Hans. Booby.

38:47I'm your white name. Hans. Bobby, I'm your white knight. Indeed. Yeah, yeah. So basically that's what happened after the game. Flick was not happy with how the game went, basically. And he had a word with the player saying that their attitude and the approach was not great in the game. And the player said that he was right, but also that they should consider maybe and be a bit more pragmatic in certain games when they don't have, as you were mentioning, like key personnel in the likes of Rafinha or Pedri. Basically, Rafinha is seen from the dressing room and from Flick as well as the key player for Barcelona just to lead that high press.

39:30And Rafinha was not available against Atletico. He's going to be available tonight against Girona. But yeah, the Barca players were saying, look, this has happened to us many times this season and it has happened in the games that we didn't have all the players available. So maybe, especially coming like big ties in the Champions League and this sort of stuff. It's something that we should keep in mind. Let's see if they do keep it in mind and what happens in the coming weeks. It's a conversation that happened already in the training facilities. All right, well, they've got the second leg of that semifinal to come with Atletico visiting theirs.

40:03Atletico, when they do click, can be more than a match for anybody. Real Madrid have discovered that earlier this season. The curious thing is that in almost classic Atletico fashion, they followed up that magnificent 4-0 first-half performance by losing this weekend 3-0 to Rayo Vallecano. What went on there? I mean, outstanding. It gave the feeling from the very start that Atletico Madrid in a way has given up in La Liga because Simeone rotated all the squad, all the line-up, possibly thinking about the Champions League. And yeah, he went with the second unit against Rayo Vallecano that had a lot to play against because, of course, they had this issue with the stadium that they cannot play at home because the pitch is not great.

40:45And they played at Leganes, actually. and they wanted to prove a point, and they did. The team played really, really good, and Atletico were outplayed, especially in the first half. And when Simeone brought on the big guns, it was too late, because Ray Vallecano was already two goals up, and in the second half they scored the third. After the game, it was Jan Oblak, the goalkeeper, who said, look, this cannot happen. It looked like we have given up La Liga, and we shouldn't be doing this. Which, in a way, it was read like a harsh comment on Simeone, who did the team selection. And then Simeone, when he went to the pressure after the game, he was a bit like, no, I'm happy with the effort that the players put.

41:24We've had a lot of games so far. It's been a difficult game, but we will keep going. OK, huge win for Rayo Vallecano, who moved out of the bottom three with that. Atletico, despite their defeat, remain in the top four, although Real Betis narrowed the margin between them and the top four with a victory against Mallorca, with Anthony once again participating at least tangentially with another assist, essentially, is what I'm trying to get to. Real Madrid have got this big game at Benfica. You touched on their big win themselves against Real Sociedad Saturday evening, which was their eighth straight victory in La Liga, and also featured the return of Trent Alexander and Arnold, and he got an assist as well.

42:06Lovely one.

42:14Yeah, yeah. A lot to discuss here. Like with Trent Alexander-Arnold, it was quite funny. Just after the game, there was a report, like a match analysis from Marcus saying Beckham is back. It was the headline of the piece. Right. Yeah, just sort of referring to the cross that Alexander-Arnold did to Gonzalo Garcia to score the opener. Maybe a bit of a stretch. I'm not going to judge that. But that was, yeah. I mean, you have to admit that Trent was pretty good. Possibly his best game in a Real Madrid shirt. really involved in the build-up and everything. Of course, delivering an assist and the judgment after the game from the Madrid press is that he was brilliant.

42:52He's very likely to start against Benfica. He's expected to start possibly against Benfica. So let's see how it goes with him in a big stage like this. But yeah, Trin-Alexander are not really good. Benitez, of course, the star of the show with two goals, two from the penalty spot. At least one of them was a bit questionable, but yeah, we're not going to get a lot into that not as questionable as Pierre Caloulos sent off but yeah Real Madrid a pretty easy day at the office for one win Real Sociedad a team that was possibly thinking more in the Copa del Rey 2 they had the semi-final against Athletic Club and possibly the Copa del Rey is what those teams they really want to be in that final because they are one game away from the final and Real Sociedad rotated their team as well in the Bernabeu OK, on the subject of Real Madrid and penalties, fascinating statistic here that in Europe's big five leagues, the team with the second most that's been awarded the second most penalties of all the big clubs out there, Tom, team with the second most penalties awarded to them this season is Bayern Munich with nine.

44:00The team with the most, you can see where I'm going here, is Real Madrid, who've had fully 13. But the referees are all biased against them. Imagine how many they could have had. that's incredible I'm happy you said that well hidden conspiracy though right you want to throw people off the scent a little bit good stuff from Seb now I want to ask James Horncastle with his famous history of Real Madrid calls in Champions League what do you think Paul is convinced that they're going to go to the Stadio de Luz and blow Jose away what do you think James I think Seb made this point when the draw was made that it feels like this game is already peaked and I unfortunately believe that the Madrid players have had their slap across the face and they will not be slapped across the face again so I think Madrid will probably win this game 3-1 I know I've gone more in depth in the past No, it's pretty specific at school and everything Right Oh, Paul No, I think that there's another thing that helps them, which is not all the stars are available.

45:16In this La Liga game that they won against Real Sociedad, Mbappe did not play because he had a small injury. He is going to start against Benfica, but he did not play. Gonzalo Garcia did, and the team was way more balanced. Jude Bellingham is not going to be playing in Benfica. Rodrigo is not going to be available for injury because he was sent off against Benfica as well. So the fact that they don't have all this accumulation of stars up front, I think that it gives Arevelo more room just to balance the team. OK, we should see. Their neighbours, Atletico Madrid, also involved. They play Wednesday away at Club Bruges.

45:51Which Atleti is going to turn up to that one, do you think, Paul? I don't know. What I know is that the first team unit is going to play with the centre-backs, Marco Willian-David Hanko, with Griezmann, Julian Alvarez, who is, by the way, a bit discussed in Madrid for his poor form. He hasn't scored in La Liga, I think, in three months. Right. And yeah, I think that the effort and everything, as I was saying with the Copa del Rey, now Simeone has basically given up in La Liga and he's going to focus on the Copa del Rey, which they are one match away from a final in which they are not going to face Real Madrid if they go through.

46:25And then in the Champions League, they also enter this knockout stages territory where, in a way, they might have a chance to beat a big team. So that's what they're going to focus on. And I think that Atletico Madrid should win. I'm not going to say easily because there's nothing easy, but they should win comfortably against Bruis. Very good. Paul, before we let you go to your Girona-Barcelona game and the meeting with a sauce, excitingly. Big sauce. Well, a meeting with a sauce beforehand. Is it a hot sauce or tasty sauce? Fernando is special.

47:04I did want to ask you one final thing, which is that aforementioned eight-minute delay for Cubasi is what would have brought Barcelona at least back to 4-1 in that Copa del Rey semifinal. What's the reaction been to that in Spain? Because we've all seen lengthy delays, but eight minutes, that's incredible. It's one of the biggest, like, I don't know if we can use the word show in here, but maybe not, just blur this. How do you say it in Spanish? Un desastre. Okay, we'll go with that. Okay, let's go with a disaster. Not because disasters I've seen live regarding to BIR. But yeah, it was basically, as you were saying, Kubercy scored a goal and in the deflection before Kubercy getting the ball.

47:52So the ball just goes off Lewandowski, who touches the without even wanting it. And in that touch, apparently, Kubarcy was offside. But then BAR, the semi-automatic offside, was not working. So the people at the BAR had to draw their lines with their own system, and that's why it took so long. But did they have to draw on paper? What could take eight minutes to do that? If they were making a vermute at the same time. Yeah, you know what? Or their pizza arrived, you know, like in that advert. Yes. I don't know, but I'm just wondering, Is the mood very pro or anti-VAR or neither in Spain? And has this incident had any great impact on that either way?

48:33Yeah, no, no. So there's been like a big debate around this. I think that the mood is more, well, if you go by side, if you go to Barcelona and you go to Madrid, that's the usual sort of siding. But the mood is that this cannot really happen, that something must be done in that regard just to avoid BAR having like eight minutes break because it's nonsense in a way. and I think that is something that is quite unified among everyone in Spanish media. That's the mood and that's the mood as well. Paul, thank you so much for that. It's been a pleasure. Referees in a pickle, perhaps, etc. and so on.

49:12We'll let you go to lovely Girona. Enjoy yourself, Paul. Look forward to seeing you next week on the Totally Football Show. So next up, we're off to far away France.

49:28Tom, this is a potentially decisive week in French football, and particularly in Paris Saint-Germain's season. First of all, they lost the lead on Friday with that 3-1 defeat at the hands of managerless Wren. And now they face this derby with Monaco on Wednesday. What happened in Wren? Well, it was similar to a lot of PSG's recent disappointing performances or disappointing results in that they created loads of chances and didn't take almost any of them. They scored one goal, Ousmane Dembele getting a header, by which point they were already 2-0 down. And this is with 20 minutes remaining. But they also defended really badly Ilyas Abani, who has come to kind of symbolise some of the shortcomings of last summer's recruitment.

50:19Obviously, we know that a real issue for PSG this season has been injuries, which are inevitably and understandably and probably justifiably being blamed on the fact that they had such a long season last season, all the way to the final of the Club World Cup, three-week break and then straight into this season. But Luis Enrique and Luis Campos and the PSG decision makers decided they weren't going to bulk up the squad. And Luis Enrique is one of those coaches, a bit like Pep Guardiola, who likes working with a small squad. He doesn't want loads and loads of players. If he's short of players, he'll ask someone to play out of position or he'll give an opportunity to a young player.

50:55And last season that worked very well. And he, in particular, managed the squad very intelligently in terms of resting players when they needed resting. And PSG were basically spared any major injury problems all throughout last season. But a consequence of not bringing in anyone apart from Zabani and Lucas Chevalier, who replaced Gianni Ruggi-Dunaruma, and that's not gone very well either, means that faced with this injury glut, there just isn't that much backup. And the PSG squad is, I mean, it's hard to say it looks thin because these are the players who won the Champions League last season.

51:33For all that, they were facing a Rennes team that had been so bad recently, they'd lost four in a row in all competitions, that they've just fired their manager. Yeah, I mean, PSG have got a terrible record away at hand. We were talking about the record against Monaco recently, but in the QSI era, so since the summer of 2011, Rennes have beaten PSG more times than any other Ligue 1 team. Weird. Why is that? I think part of it is that Roison Park, Rennes' home ground, is a real sort of cauldron. And, you know, they've had some good teams in recent years. And they've generally been a team who try and play good football.

52:10And PSG have struggled with that. multiple iterations of PSG have struggled with that. And I think what we saw on Friday night was what often happens when a coach leaves, and particularly when a coach who has been in fairly open conflict with various players leaves, is you get this big sigh of relief. They had a bounce, right. And they had a bounce, as you said. Sebastian Tambouré, caretaker manager, came in, binned off Habib Bay's 3-5-2 system, brought Brie Somba back in, in goal, did all the things that, you know, the Wren supporters themselves would probably have done. He did a Michael Carrick.

52:48He did a Michael Carrick, just sort of logical decisions. But at the same time... Mr. Tambouray Man. Mr. Tambouray Man. He got a tune out of them. And they played a song for him. They really did. But also, you know, some slightly punchy decisions. He gave a start to this 18-year-old right-back, Mohamedou Nagida, who played very well and in ditching Habib Bey's preferred system he was able to play Moussa Altamari the Jordanian forward as a winger as opposed to a wing back he's been one of Rennes' most consistent performers this season he scored the opening goal cut in from the right curled it bottom left and yeah good value for their win Esteban Lepaul heads in for the second goal and despite PSG reducing the arrears Rennes managed to get a third And then there was this slightly curious post-match interview, Ousmane Dembele, who in the space of 90 seconds said the same very pointed thing three times.

53:48We need to put the team first and not think about ourselves. And everyone was like, ah, he's having a pop at Desiree Due. Because Desiree Due is the other kind of soloist in the PSG attack and he doesn't always pass the ball when he should do. That was sort of the accusation on social media. Luis Enrique immediately in his post-match press conference sought to downplay the significance of what Dembele had said by saying that anything that a footballer says in a post-match interview is absolutely worthless and shouldn't really have any attention paid to it. Is that why there's no French broadcast deal?

54:27That's it, they've realised. The penny has dropped. Luis Enrique is just saying what everyone thinks. and the message from PSG has been no, he was speaking in the heat of the moment, he wasn't attacking any particular player but it was a slightly curious outburst from Dembele. PSG are kind of racking up these kind of strange defeats because they lost against Sporting in the Champions League and then followed that up with a 2-2 draw which was almost like a defeat and meant that they're in the playoffs. Now what else did they do? They lost in the Coupe de France to Paris FC. Yeah, three defeats already in 2026, which is only a month and a half old.

55:06And again, you know, you speak to sources around the changing room and the explanation is not so much the explanation for these defeats, but the players are on a mission. And the mission is we want to win the Champions League again. That comes before everything. And you sort of wonder whether maybe a partial consequence of that is they are, you know, taking their eye off the ball a little bit when it comes to domestic matters. and perhaps that's why we're starting to see performances that are so reminiscent of the first half of last season when they dominated possession, created loads of chances, didn't take enough of those chances and ended up losing or drawing.

55:45And we saw that in the Champions League, two points from a possible nine, the draw away to Bilbao before Christmas, the defeat at Sporting and then that very frustrating home draw against Newcastle. I mean, they are overwhelming favourites against Monaco. I suspect they'll get past them without too much trouble. But it is looking a little bit dicey. Monaco, as you say, have hit a much better vein of form. They're unbeaten in their last four matches, winning three of them. 3-1 they beat Nantes at the weekend with Sunderland only, some in a dingre with two goals in three first half minutes. Woof.

56:20So it could be an interesting game on Wednesday. For now, the big beneficiaries of Paris Saint-Germain focusing on Europe, though, are Lens, who go back to the top of the table. They're one point ahead of Luis Enrique's side. This after on Saturday, beating the other team from Paris, Paris FC, in their biggest ever away win. 5-0 they won. Yeah, and there aren't many teams that have done that to Paris FC this season. And I think in the context of PSG losing to the same opponents within the last few weeks, it makes it look all the more impressive. And yeah, Lens were fantastic. And one of the most impressive things about their current run of form is that it almost doesn't matter which players are missing.

57:02They are able to hit the same performance level. And they were once again without their Austrian centre-back, Samson Baydu, who's been one of the real standout signings from last summer in Liga. But it doesn't matter. There's this young 19-year-old central defender, Nidal Celica, who comes into the starting 11. He knows his job. Another youngster alongside him at the heart of the defence, Ismail Aghaniou. He knows his job. And so regardless of who's there, they're able to play the same level of football. Wesley Saeed is one of the great success stories. One of the few survivors from the Lons team that finished second under Franckes in 2023.

57:45Loads of injury problems, but he scored a really nicely taken first half brace. He's now in double figures for Ligue 1 goals this season. Florian Tova adds a penalty and then Alain Samaxima comes off the bench sets up a couple of goals for another substitute Ryan Fofana and yeah Long's back on top of the table and the question now is how long can they sustain it and in particular there is a home game to come against PSG on the weekend of the 12th and 13th of April so not too far off and I think the hope in French football is that they will either still be top at that point or they will be close and they will be within striking distance.

58:26They've got some tricky away trips in the intervening period. They go to Strasbourg and Lorient, who we've discussed are in great form at the moment. Lille in the Derby du Nord. That's the week before this game against PSG. But it is looking more and more like they are proper title contenders. And I think there's great excitement about that in France, not least because in so many ways they are the antithesis of PSG in terms of the history of the club, Lens as a mining town from the north of France. They've got Lens history and Paris Saint-Germain got a short history. Well, I wasn't going to say, but I mean, yeah, kind of.

59:06Also that. Earlier on, Tom, you mentioned the team in third place, Lyon and the terrific run of form they've been on under Paolo Fonseca. A word, though, about the team who they've left in their dust in the race for top three in Champions League football, and that is Marseille. Since our last show, Roberto Deserbi resigned at the Villadrume. Mutually resigned. Mutually resigned out of his post. OK. they on Saturday then followed that up with a hugely disappointing 2-2 draw against Gary O 'Neill Strasbourg which saw them take the lead go 2-0 up but then concede two points to the team from Alsace and there was much unrest at the final whistle yes and even before the game so there were various banners displayed in the stands prior to kick-off having a pop at Marseille's ownership and Marseille's management.

1:00:07There was a grève d 'encouragement, an encouragement strike for the first 15 minutes. And that meant that, I think it was the tribunal, was just completely empty. There were no fans on it. And they all started to traipse in in dribs and drabs after about 14, 15 minutes, at which point Mason Green would gave Marseille the lead. So you got all these fans that are like, we are not happy with the way things are going. and we have stayed away for the first 15 minutes to show you we're not happy. And, oh, we've scored, lads! And so they're kind of like making their way to their seats and celebrating as they go, which was slightly peculiar.

1:00:43But Marseille had this, you know, sort of Groundhog Day experience of throwing away another game in stoppage time and in particular another home game in stoppage time. They've conceded seven stoppage time goals in Ligue 1 this season. they've dropped points in stoppage time on five separate occasions this 2-2 draw courtesy of a stoppage time penalty for the opposition followed another 2-2 draw courtesy of a stoppage time penalty for the opposition two weeks ago away at Paris FC and it does just feel symbolic of a team that are capable of going two goals up playing good football looking like they're in control and just this fragility that stalks the club.

1:01:28And it came back to bite them again. Not just the team either. Then Sunday, the club followed that up by seeing their sporting director, Benatia, resigning. Yeah, and Benatia has formed part of this triumvirate with Pablo Longoria, the president, and Roberto Dezerbi, the now former coach. and the message that they were trying to give off was that this is the new stable face of Olympique de Marseille. No more psychodramas, no more managers leaving halfway through the season. We are in it for the long term. We're all working in lockstep. Everyone's in agreement across the board. And Adeserbi's gone, Benassia's gone.

1:02:11Longoria is still there, but it's suddenly become very quiet and not really speaking to the media. That was kind of the first indication that time might be up for De Zerbi, was that there was nothing coming from on high to sort of confirm the club's faith in him. Benassia, who with Longoria has been the architect of this phase of Marseille's development. So he is now gone as well. And what makes things particularly awkward in a typically Marseille way is that he's the guy who was speaking to Habib Bey about taking over from Deserby. Really? Because they were both at Marseille at the same time when Bey was playing in the first team.

1:02:55Benatio was in the academy, so they've known each other for years. And there have been multiple meetings between them. And the expectation was that Bey would be appointed to succeed Deserby. But now the guy who he was negotiating with has gone. Baye's departure from Rennes hasn't yet been finalised and as a suggestion that might be heading for an employment tribunal and so a season that began with talk about Marseille having finally turned the page no more drama, stability, everyone aligned has just ended up blowing up in exactly the same way that almost every Marseille season ends up blowing up Good Lord, next weekend they are away at Brest while Lens host Monaco.

1:03:41And Paris Saint-Germain are up against Mets, bottom of the table. Mets while Strasbourg face Lyon. Big games. We'll find out how those go in next Tuesday's Totally Football Show. Today's show, we finish off with Sev Stafford-Blor and Bundesliga.

1:04:00You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy some glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show.

1:04:31Bundesliga, Seb, it's as you were at the top. Bayern beat Werder Bremen 3-0. Harry Kane with two goals. He's now scored 500 senior career goals for Club of Country. A hundred of them from the penalty spot. Bayern anyway stay six points clear of Dortmund, who on Friday beat Mainz in form, Mainz 4-0. That's some good stuff, Seb. Yeah, really thumping win. And I think also just with the Atalanta game in mind, we've talked about their defensive problems, but Dortmund are becoming a little bit more varied in attack, a few more layers to their work, a few more positional rotations. This was quite straightforward because it was really just four Hewlett-Royce and crosses for each goal, but impressive stuff.

1:05:15And ultimately, Kovac gets a lot of flack, but to have this team where they are still kind of in the title race with Bayern, I use that kind of advisedly, maybe they are. Dortmund are going to play Bayern on 28th at the Vestfalen Stadium, so we'll see. That'll be the day, really, if Bayern get through that when I think they're on kind of easy street towards the title. Yeah, but this was mightily impressive. Defence looks far more resolute than it has in years. They look very muscular. Not in the way that Jurgen Klopp's teams were or Thomas Tuchel's sides, but impressive in their own right, given the composition of the team, because I don't think this is the most talented group of players.

1:05:54In particular, Joe Bellingham starting to improve. to improve. Completed 90 minutes again. I think that's the sixth game in seven that he started and finished for Dortmund in all competitions. Still very conservative with the ball. Still plays as if he's a little bit fearful of mistakes, but defensively becoming much more aware. I think that's about continuity, becoming a little bit more familiar with his surroundings and adapted to the speed of the Bundesliga, really. Having come from the English Championship, of course, he didn't play in the Premier League, so that's a big old step up. That's good.

1:06:26So lots of little micro positives in the Dortmund there. You mentioned Bayern. Now, the player you didn't mention there is Lennon Carl, who a week ago, as everyone will have seen, got embroiled in step-over gate. Everyone has seen the clip of him against Hoffenheim, where he did a million step-overs and then just back-heeled the ball out of play and got a very sarcastic thumbs-up from the defender he was facing. And afterwards, it's interesting because people were very quick to try and damn him and say, look, you're being disrespectful. You're not taking it seriously. Who do you think you are?

1:07:02Vince the company was kind of immediately into kind of protective dad mode where he said, I'm never going to tell a player of mine not to do step overs. You know, I'm paraphrasing, but he said, I'm not going to coach the expression out of people. Lothar Matthias as well, he spoke to Sky Deutschland afterwards and he said pretty much the same thing. It didn't always go well for Messi in the beginning. We want our players to play. We want them to be expressive. We don't want to just hammer like a young guy. And he's quite right, because if you look back at the beginnings of so many great attacking careers, Ronaldo used to do this, Cristiano Ronaldo, of course.

1:07:39Wayne Rooney could do it. Thierry Henry could do it. You have those moments where ability and ambition and swagger are all kind of apportioned in slightly the wrong way. And I bring this up because the first goal, the hurricane penalty against Werder Bremer, which set Barne on the way to their 3-0 win, came from really nice slaloming Lennart-Karl run and a step over which befuddled the defender into Kasima the penalty. And it's a nice little bit of man management there. And it's appropriate because Karl is an extraordinary talent, deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as some of these guys from the past.

1:08:15I'm not saying he will develop into that kind of player or that level of player, but he certainly deserves to be sort of categorised in that way. And so the way company handles him now is very, very important and seems to be going extremely well. He played a really, really nice run to create that first goal. And then Kane's second, which is just a masterpiece, that curling shot from the edge of the box. Goretzka making it 3-0. Yeah, all good signs for Bayern. The one bad sign being Manuel Neuer picking up an injury problem. How serious is that looking? A couple of weeks. So it's another lower leg problem.

1:08:50I think the bigger issue here, Jimbo, is that the conflict is between Noir's form and his fragility. So this is the second lower leg injury he's suffered this season. Not a problem. He'll be gone for three weeks. Yannis Erbic will come back in. Erbic is a very capable goalkeeper. Will be in goal for that game against Dortmund that we mentioned. Very important game. And Noir will probably be back for the Champions League. The problem is that that's the only area where he's really showing his age. his body's breaking down i think last last season he suffered three different injuries three separate absences this is the second so i suppose from a continuity standpoint do you want your first choice goalkeeper given that manuel nor is as important emotionally to dortmund as important emotionally as he is technically do you want him missing games ahead of important knockout round matches no his contract is due to expire at the end of the season decision is still pending on whether he's renewed, presumably for another year, as he was last time.

1:09:50Let's see, let's see. But yeah, he'll turn 40 in just over a month, I think. So yeah, there's a decision to be made there. Excellent. Elsewhere in the Bundesliga, Leipzig dropped points again. They are two points now outside of the top four places with a 2-2 draw against Wolfsburg. A big game coming up for them next weekend against Dortmund. Yeah, Leipzig have got this to them. They are, I like what Elie Verne has done since coming in. And they were very, very good through the autumn and the early winter. And then it seemed as if a few injury absences and a few AFCON absences kind of unsettled them out of the Winter Pauze.

1:10:30And they've got this sloppiness to their game, this sort of casual, they can dominate games, they can create a lot of chances. With the ball, they play very, very well. They're very stylish, very exciting to watch. Brian Gruder equalised in the 89th minute to score his first goal since moving back to Germany on loan from Brighton. And it was Leipzig's game. Yet they managed to concede two goals. Really, really sloppy. So let's see. And you'd think, I mean, last time Dortmund were in Leipzig, they got, I mean, it was just before they went on that big run on the Kobach, which took them into the Champions League places on the final day.

1:11:05I think this is an entirely different Dortmund that are going there. there um they will have the short week having played atlanta of course but yeah they kind of have a street wiseness that's not a word is it i think it is away with it yeah let's just say if you say it with enough conviction it becomes a word after a while good yeah street wise they have enough street wisdom to go to leipzig and i think take advantage of some of these little floors which exist within a young leipzig side um let's see but they're right on the bubble of those top four places. Interestingly, Stuttgart are playing very, very well.

1:11:40Emmerin Demirovic scored a very, very late goal against Köln on Sunday. And also Eintracht Frankfurt look a little bit better under Albert Riera. They won their first game in all competitions and kept their first clean sheet since I think the 15th of December. And Riera had interesting moments. So one of the problems, if not the problem, with Frankfurt's defence this season has been related to their goalkeeper, Cal Santos. Very, very talented young Brazilian guy. He can make all sorts of saves. Will be. It's very easy to imagine him being an excellent goalkeeper in three or four years. And the club are fully committed to that.

1:12:20The trouble is that he's going for a very fragile period with his confidence. And some of the mistakes that he's made and some of the decisions he's made have unsettled what is already a very, very flawed defensive unit. and at the weekend kept his clean sheet got his first call up to kick his team of the week of the season which is great and Riera came out and said he's clearly going for a bit of positive reinforcement because he said you know he's got all the he's got all the qualities I want in my goalkeeper he's big and strong he's got great reflexes he's smart and agile and quick and and so he's kind of trying to build him up um so let's see how that goes let's track that over the next couple of weeks.

1:13:00OK. They're not quite in the mix, really, for the European places, even though they've had that uptick in form. It is four teams, Hoffenheim, Stuttgart, Leipzig, and Leverkusen, separated by six points, squabbling over those two places behind Bayern and Borussia Dortmund. Leverkusen with a big 4-0 win at the weekend over São Paulo, ahead of their Wednesday night clash in Greece, in Piraeus. Yeah, handy win for Leverkusen, this because they were 3-0 up by half time, which meant that off came Patrick Schick early. So he's a little bit rested for that game against Olympiacos. They were able to withdraw a few first team players early.

1:13:42Yeah, and St. Pauli, St. Pauli, yeah, St. Pauli are going to play Werder Bremen next Sunday, which is a real, that'll probably be the decisive moment in both seasons because Bremen is sat in 16th in the relegation playoff place at the moment. St. Pauli is 17th, can overtake Bremen if they win games at the Millentor. So Heidenheim, who lost 1-0 to Augsburg, they're probably gone six points adrift of just the relegation playoffs. So that's tricky. You mentioned Hoffenheim. Hoffenheim set a new club record over the weekend. So they beat Freiburg 3-0 and went eight games without defeat at home, which is a new club record.

1:14:20Also, Andrew Kramaric scored one of the best disallowed goals I've ever seen. So volleyed in from 40, 45 yards. Lovely. Dipped over. Noah Atabalu clunked in off the net. And then VAR, handily, in that tedious little way that it does, found that I think Kramaric was like half a buttock offside or something. So disallowed it, unfortunately. But Hovnheim was brilliant. Really, really good. So impressive. Just looking at it now. Here we go. Exactly. Exactly. Lani Kramaric, abseits verdächtig. Andre Kramaric! Proper, proper volley. Not just a big hoof, but a lovely arc on it as well. So what was wrong with that, Seb?

1:15:01He was slightly offside? Yeah, I think he had an arse-cheek offside or something. All right. Well, you can't do that. Rules are very much rules. No, you're not allowed to do that. And they are rightly, you know, wound back to the front. Stamp down on those players having fun and scoring spectacular goals. Good. Anything else we should know about, Seb, from the Bundesliga? I've got a little bit more fun for you. So over the weekend, Hamburg beat Union Berlin 3-2 at the Volkspark. And yeah, there's a little bit of a lasting saga between these two teams. Because back in the autumn, when they drew 0-0 at the Alta Forster Rye, Fabio Vieira, who of course is on loan from Arsenal and Hamburg this season, he was sent off for a little bit of a clash with Leo Kueffelt, the Union defender.

1:15:42Vieira sort of challenged for a ball, which was in the air. where Querfeld went down holding his face, replay showed, boot nowhere near his face at all. And so there's been a little bit of angst between the two teams ever since. Anyway, Union Berlin went 1-0 up from Elia Querfeld penalty in the first half on Saturday, and then equalised through Ransford Königsdorfer, who celebrated by, people should go and see it, because I don't think my description is going to do it justice, but Ranhoff jumped into the air holding his head and fell down very theatrically. And I think that might have been a reference to the Querfeld-Fierra incident from early in the season.

1:16:21So I'm all about that kind of pessimist and not being able to look beyond things which have happened four months ago. Fantastic. That's what supporting a club, following a club is all about, isn't it? This is where you should never, ever forget, never forgive. Anyway, Koenigstufer is a story in his own right because a lot of people said not good enough to score goals at this level. He scored twice on Saturday. And yeah, he's having a fun time. He's done very, very well. This is a player who was rejected by Hertha Berlin, was released by them as a young guy, signed by Hamburg when they're in the Zweite Bundesliga.

1:16:56A lot of people didn't think he was good enough to play in the Zweite Bundesliga. Very nearly joined Nice in the summer for 6 million euros, but failed in medical, so stayed. A lot of people, when that happened, said, brilliant, 6 million euros for Ransi Koenigstorfer, that's absolutely fine. But it's proven a lot of people wrong and scored some really, really important goals. He got the equaliser against Borussia Dortmund in like the 121st minute before Christmas. They got them a point and he scored a couple of goals. He's doing very, very well. So a nice little story there. Excellent. Very good, Seb.

1:17:27That's what we'll leave it then for this week. We'll be back together in a week's time ahead of the second legs of those Champions League playoffs. So I can imagine we'll have plenty to talk about then as well. Well, for now, many, many thanks to Seb, to Paul. Good luck at his sourcing in Geruna. Tom, many thanks to you and James and producer Lucy and you, listener. We'll have Totally Football Shows, actually, on both Wednesday and Thursday, reacting to the previous evening's playoff action. So why not join us for those? In the meantime, though, from all of us here, it's goodbye. You've been listening to the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

1:18:12For other great podcasts just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:18:35The Athletic FC.

1:18:40Thank you.