Chelsea book FA Cup final with City, as Arsenal + Spurs both win!

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1:33The Athletic FC

2:00Heinsome, Forest Thrash Sunderland, West Ham leave it late and Spurs, Spurs do a win. Meanwhile, in the National League, a Sputland spectacle for the ages. That and more to come on this Totally Football Show.

2:16Good evening. This is the Totally Football Show and we are live on YouTube on Sunday, the 26th of April. After a fairly monumental weekend in the world of association football, it's me, Matt, sitting in for Jimbo again. in the studio. I have Colin Miller of The Athletic. How are you, Colin? I'm not too bad, Matt. How are you? Yeah, all right, thanks. Just hot-footed it on the tube from Wembley Stadium. Seb Stafford-Blaw's here too. Nice to see you in person in England. Thanks for having me, Matt. And on the big screen, Daniel Story, who's had quite the weekend. Are you okay, Daniel?

2:47Matt Davies-Adams: I'm very well, thank you, Matt. Right, straight to it. The important thing, take a fanatic on the YouTube. I think I'm only interested in hearing about York Rochdale as the only meaningful football action this weekend. the floor is yours then Daniel you were there to see that incredible finish live and in living colour yeah I think I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say it was in a million to one shot which sounds really silly but then when you break down exactly what happened and for people who haven't seen this yet pause this go and watch the highlights from the game the last five ten however many minutes it was with delays and then come back because it is worth it but firstly you've got to have a league or a division where winning the title is everything so there have been since liverpool last in 1989 there have been occasions in which a title was won by the team in first playing the team playing second on the final day but both those teams were already promoted so the title is not in any way the significant element of that the promotion is so they don't count so this was the first time in 37 years uh that two teams had met on the final day with everything on the line so that's your first thing that's very unusual secondly the game needs to be level or the situation needs to be level going into the final minutes so that adds an extra layer of uncertainty an extra layer of chance then the A team that needs to win the game needs to score incredibly late on to persuade you that it's done, not that they've taken the lead and this is a chance.

4:22Matt Davies-Adams: It was done. Henderson with a brilliant ball to all the balls. Bochdale fans invaded the pitch because they knew it was done. York players hit the turf. Some of them almost crying. The management staff were broken because it was done. There's then a delay while they clear the pitch of supporters who don't really leave the pitch. They're just sort of milling around at the side because the stewards can't do anything else, right? And the game is over. So we just need to restart and then it's done. But there is still one minute left. And in that minute, football goes on sort of triple speed because York City have about four shots, win about three headers, put two crosses into the box.

5:02Matt Davies-Adams: And then there is a shot in the final minute. And to add another layer of chance to this, the ball doesn't just go in. The ball is effectively or seemingly cleared off the line, at which point everybody in the stadium turns to look at the assistant referee who stood watching it.

5:32Matt Davies-Adams: That assistant referee flags to say the ball crossed the line, there's no goal line technology in the National League, and therefore York go mad. And so there's a second pitch invasion. And at this point, obviously, Rochdale are broken and the York players who were broken are now crying. And there's videos of them crying and their fans are on the pitch. So they clear them off. And amazingly, fair play to the referee. He continues to play about another 10 seconds for show after that kickoff. and that whole 10 minute sequence as a neutral observer I just couldn't process it it took me about 5 minutes to kind of understand what I'd seen because 3 or 4 minutes before the end a York player had headed a shot onto his own bar from a corner and I said to the guy next to me I was like well it's been a pretty bad game but that's a little bit of colour you know there was nearly a goal and we can kind of do the whole present tense intro the ball cross comes into the box it's headed the width of a bar decides a national league title yada yada yada we've all been there and then the madness happened and i just couldn't believe it i got home last night and i was like you know that that will never happen to me again it will never happen to york city or rochdale or anyone who was there again it was genuinely breathtaking dan let me ask you because we both support football teams that have spent our lives disappointing us you look for crises and you know of terrified moments and enjoy being snatched away from you when the first goal goes in and the pitch invasion happens is there not a little bit of you which thinks oh don't know about that because you can just feel it right you can imagine your own team putting you in that situation and even with what one minute left to play you don't really fancy defending a few crosses did it not feel a little bit inevitable sorry that's terrible killjoying but no no it's a fair i think the one thing I'd say is that it felt like the last action of the game because the whole season had come down to York's Rochdale hadn't had a shot on target until that point York had managed the game really well it was seen as you know the goalkeeper had already been up it was a cross into the box it was like this is it this is the last play and they scored so it didn't occur to me that there could be any time left that there would be any time left and it didn't occur to the York players because everybody was on the turf and broken.

7:53Matt Davies-Adams: And it was only the pitch invasion that allowed Stuart Maynard, York City's manager, to get his players into a huddle and say, look, we've asked the officials. They tell us we've got 45 seconds, a minute, a minute and a half, because there will be some time wasting. There will be some clock slowing here. We've probably got one play of our own. We've got one chance to do something. And without the pitch invasion, he doesn't get that chance. And I think the players remain broken, and they just sort of stagger around the pitch for that last minute. So I understand why people were like, oh, Rochdale fans paid the price for going too early and evading the pitch.

8:27Matt Davies-Adams: But the whole game, the whole season was set up for a moment. And Rochdale had that one moment. That was it. That was done. If this is the silly, you know, the cheesy sports film, that's it. The one goal for the home team is enough. And that's what we're all waiting for. Will Rochdale score one goal?

8:47Daniel Storey: And for York City as well, a team who had finished second in the National League last year on 96 points, didn't go up via the playoffs. Oldham went up on 23 points fewer over the course of the normal table. And if you're a fan of York City and you just think, oh my God, is this really happening again? But in these circumstances, and it's a National League, it's a three-up campaign, isn't it? As Daniel says, like that led to the unbelievable drama, just having the one automatic place. But at the same time, those two teams clearly have a level and a strength, which makes them suitable for stepping up into League 2.

9:22Daniel Storey: I mentioned Oldham, they finished I think 6th or 7th last year and they're comfortably mid-table in League 2. Barnett are quite similar. So there's not a massive difference but these teams find it so difficult to actually break through into the football league and there is a campaign that's been going on from the National League to get that extra spot each season and you look at Rochdale and York, between them they've 214 points this season which is absurd. but I think that kind of needs to happen now as well. As great as this drama was it probably also shows that it's a little bit too harsh on second.

9:55Matt Davies-Adams: It was genuinely like it was the peak of my football watching career. It will never change. Like obviously the only thing that makes it best is if you're a York fan but then I've spoken to about 100 York fans today and like you kind of via osmosis have sourced their joy and Rochdale's pain. Incredible. And that's the fifth tier of English football. Can the FA Cup measure up to that last 10 minutes of chat. Probably not, but we'll give it a go anyway. This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The champion over there was Pascal Straub, and he's lost the ball here to João Pedro, and now it goes on to Neto, and they're flooding forward the blue shirt.

10:33Neto for the net!

10:37Daniel Storey: The Chelsea captain delivers in the semi-final. First club to the team in blue. Sunday's semi-final will start with the finished Chelsea one, leeds nil at wembley i've literally just set foot in the studio having been there which probably means seb i'm not best placed to talk about the game because i was a bit too wrapped up in it i thought it was quite an interesting spectacle but that's probably because i was concentrating quite hard on it uh leeds huffed and puffed couldn't blow the chelsea door down was that a fair summary yeah it was semi-engaging in the second half a few good leeds chances uh great save from robert sanchez as well particularly from anton schtack who can really really rake a shot from 25 yards um it was good it was good it was like i'm after everything that we've just said about dan's experience yesterday it feels quite difficult to to kind of frame this in a way which makes it engaging but it was good it was good fa cup fair it wasn't a blowout interesting stories of course because of what's happened at chelsea uh over the past few days i don't think i'm being terribly unfair when i say that like i i don't love seeing a team who played as chelsea did against brighton a few days ago come out and give that performance in a different situation that was a lot of the talk in the press room beforehand actually i kind of damned if you do damned if you don't if you if they don't turn up say well these guys are hopeless and if they do turn up and win well why didn't they do that for the last guy yeah it's like you kind of you're not to engage in cod psychology but i'm going to engage in some psychology i think it's a week i think i think also if you think about you know chelsea fans that traveled to that brighton game and it's not the easiest journey even when you get to brighton you have to take that little train in it's it's a tricky one it's tricky ground to get out of as well it's a long night don't love it i don't love it but well done chelsea through to the final um it's a it's a great achievement it's a way of rescuing the season but yeah i i did have that sort of um watched it with a little bit of suspicion not to be again a killed i've been a killjoy twice in 15 minutes but i'll say more positive things as we go on okay well that's kind of your gimmick i mean enzo fernandez had a midway through the first half uh settled it nice ball in from pedro net I thought João Pedro was excellent for Chelsea as well, but Leeds be kicking themselves, Colin, aren't they?

12:47I mean, if that Brendan Aronson shot, which probably should have gone in, goes in, maybe it's a different game, but what a missed opportunity for them.

12:54Daniel Storey: Yeah, you think so. I think going into this game and the two narratives of Leeds being a resurgent team, essentially, they'd been playing well for months, but then they had a couple of victories behind them. They had that sort of pressure of relegation kind of lifted off entirely. Chelsea, obviously, in the complete opposite direction of that, of course. and you kind of think if Leeds were to win this they needed to play pretty much the same game they played against Manchester United about what 10-12 days ago at Old Trafford and they won 2-1 and they made such a fast start and they were on top they got the lead in that game I think they probably needed to get the lead in this game because I think when they they're chasing a game they just don't have the talent in the final third to be making those decisions against a high level team who can sort of just sort of set off a little bit and soak that pressure up this was actually Chelsea's first clean sheet since January 21st against a top level team so they kept clean sheets against Hull and Port Vale in the FA Cup but they've conceded 34 goals since they last kept a clean sheet against that level of opponent so that's obviously one thing that's important for them but I just kind of think that Leeds probably started off quite brightly but then faded and then Chelsea had the spell they got their goal but Chelsea didn't really create anything after that that was sort of like we're happy enough to be 1-0 up and we can kind of shut up shop a little bit and I just think with Leeds they changed formation at half time they changed I think they switched it as four at the back you know get that extra body further up the pitch they had more of the ball more possession had quite a few half chances yeah Robert Sanchez did play well made a couple of really smart saves but yeah I think for Leeds it'll be a case of definitely there's regret there you know you haven't reached this stage of the competition never mind a final for such a long time and this is a good team and they're in good form but just didn't have quite enough about them today and yeah Chelsea if you're Callum McFarlane it's like you're going to be managing an FA Cup final albeit in absolutely absurd circumstances really having already been in earlier in the season and already come back in but I mean if they were to win that FA Cup final it's not exactly a great season but all of a sudden there might be a sort of tint at the end of the tunnel of what's been a pretty dreadful few months I think what a strange what a strange existence for him right because the first time he comes in gets that late equaliser against Manchester City I was reading an interview with him and he says something along the lines of this is the first time I've been to Wembley as something other than a fan which is a really strange thing to say ahead of an FA Cup semi-final it's a kind of it's a it's a it's it's the oddity of the the Chelsea universe in microcosm really isn't it that you get guys sort of dropped in into an emergency situation does a pretty good job seems to be quite popular with the with the players as well I saw Rhys James pushing him towards the fans at the full time I don't really know much about the dynamic between him and those players other and it's been better than what's been replaced by account.

15:33He's new to Chelsea at the start of this season and he's brought the, because he was the under-21 coach, he brought the under-21 coach who replaced him and the under-18 coach onto the bench with him too. What did you make of it, Daniel? It's a strange situation whereby you pick up your first win as a manager in an FA Cup semi-final. He's the first English manager to reach the FA Cup final. So Frank Lampard did it in 2020 with Chelsea. What was your take on the game and the Chelsea situation in general?

15:59Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, it's a no-lose for McFarlane because he's not going to be one of those. I mean, A, there's not long enough left and B, he's not experienced enough. It's not going to be one of those interims where even if he wins every game to the end of the season, I don't think he'll be Chelsea manager on the first day of next season. So that kind of brings a pressure-free environment, I suppose. Sort of go out there and enjoy yourself in the most non-patronising way. I actually thought Chelsea were really impressive given what had come before. I was actually more impressed that they scored and then sat back on a lead given how defensively fragile they have been.

16:30Matt Davies-Adams: I thought what McFarlane might do is just sort of, if we get the first goal, just carry on. Just try and get some confidence back into your veins. Let's do some decent attacking moves that just haven't been there recently. The fact that they back themselves to score and then go, you're not going to score passes. We're going to be defensively solid. After he changed the central defence, I thought was a really good sign. Again, probably doesn't say much for Liam Rossini, but I feel like we're probably going to be saying that a lot over the next few weeks. And I also like the way it looked like a different strategy to go long from Sanchez to Pedro.

17:05Matt Davies-Adams: And you said, Matt, he was really good and he was. Like his holding up the ball was excellent. And I think recently, Chelsea have taken so long to get the ball to him that he's almost had to do too much to create or have a chance. Whereas, get the ball direct to him, he can muscle off defenders and bring others into play, which is kind of ironically, that's what I thought Leeds' tactic would be. But Chelsea did it and did it really well, I think. so they go through to the final they've now reached six of the last 10 fa cup finals they've only won on one of their previous five appearances and they shall go into that final as second favorites you would think it means their last home game of the season against spurs is going to be under the lights battle of the bridge part two um chance for chelsea to relegate tottenham potentially 10 years on from that first game we'll get to spurs later but it's on as well yeah Everything about it is just, I feel stars aligning.

17:58The season just will not end, will it? It just won't go away. Every week there's something like that. There's a new injury or there's like three ACLs that get torn. Oh my goodness. Chelsea win the FA Cup and relegate Spurs. I think we can upgrade this season from bin fire to actually quite acceptable. But there's quite a lot for them to do before that happens. They've got to play Man City in the final. It was Citizens and Saints on Saturday. Some effort from the championship side to come so close to pipping Pep's peeps. Wasn't a bee though. City battled back from a goal down. They punched their annual ticket to the FA Cup final.

18:29They always get there, it seems at the moment. But Daniel, we should probably start with some praise for Southampton, shouldn't we? They've been red hot in the championship for months and months. Tonda Rekert looks like the next big managerial thing. They scored a sensational goal. And maybe if they'd held that lead for even five minutes longer, it could have been different. but City struck back pretty much straight away.

18:51Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah, scored too early, obviously, which they needed to score sort of 89-50 or something to stop City coming back in the game. Yeah, I thought Southampton were everything they've been recently in the Championship, which is just, they don't seem to let setbacks or disadvantage phase them in any way, which is a pretty impressive trait for a novice manager to instill in a group of players. Not least because when he was appointed permanently, He promptly, I think, won one of seven or went winless in his first seven as permanent manager. And he has turned that around. They look really, really good.

19:23Matt Davies-Adams: They have got a massive game against Ipswich in midweek. And I thought that because of that, I thought that they might be a little bit powder puff in the semifinal. I thought they might be a bit sort of sit back and just see what happens and try and frustrate City. But they weren't that. They're adventurous. They look like a team who is managed by a guy who can't believe his luck to have the job. And that is not throwing shade at Tondra Echard at all, because he wouldn't have expected this job nine months ago either. When he was brought into the staff under Will Still and when Still then loses his job early and he gets a caretaker job and thinks he's just ticking it over.

19:58Matt Davies-Adams: And it's all risen from that to him managing in an FA Cup semi-final at Wembley and still having a shot automatic promotion. I think it will be the playoffs, but there's always one. And they are the team which the other clubs in the playoffs are saying we don't really want to face them at the moment. I saw them hammer Wrexham at the race course a few weeks ago. And it was the best performance I've been seeing by a championship team this season. I've seen Coventry plenty. So, yeah, they are serious. And I'm glad they got that kind of moment. I'm glad it wasn't just a sort of City walkover, 3-0 victory.

20:30Matt Davies-Adams: Obviously disappointed to concede twice late on. But then City kind of, that was what I was expecting from City an hour and a half earlier. Shout out to Steve Wilson, commentator of the BBC, saying, just imagine if saints nick one just as finna zaz was pulling his boot back as tondra got much coverage in germany sir no not really he got a bit of cut through after southampton beat arsenal in the kind of here's this german guy doing interesting things sort of way uh build covered him kicker covered him but truth be told he hasn't done much in germany to warrant coverage i mean he worked a lot of his development has come some of it was at i think genoa um under alexander blessin who's now St.

21:06Pauli head coach. Really, really good coach. So not surprised to see someone he's worked with do good things. He's at Salzburg, of course. I think he was at Barnsley as an assistant at one point, I think. So he hasn't really come up on any radars. And he worked with Mira Closer when Closer was coaching one of the FC Bayern youth teams. So no, not really, but it'd be really interesting now to see the way he's treated and what kind of cachet that has back in Germany. So I'm interested. and actually behind the behind the scenes i was asked when he got the job someone said in our company slack yeah what do you know about this guy and uh with that kind of you're about to write a 15 word profile i was like i'd never even heard of him until yesterday it's fine so um that was kind of that sums it up really i mean um is uh yeah it's a voyage of discovery but good luck to me i love watching this teams play probably because i think and i think we'll all agree about this like when you get these these games even in the premier league not just in the fa cup we're so used to seeing the pattern of play favor and modeled around what what the stronger team can do well so you see the retreating you see the counter-attacking Eckert's teams don't really conform to that really really enjoy that about his football um and it's it's been so much fun to watch I find him quietly terrifying for some reason I was at their third round game against Doncaster where they nearly chucked it away and what about City then Colin I mean a good weekend for them generally grubbed the win.

22:29Arsenal only had one goal to their tally, but a bad day for your Fodans, your Marmouches, your Rinders, maybe some people who were given the opportunity to show why they should be starting more regularly and not many took it.

22:41Daniel Storey: Yeah, I think that's probably a fair assessment, Matt. I think that in this game, they played fine, right? I mean, they had so many opportunities, so many shots, quite a lot of shots were off target in the end, but to reach this many finals in a row, I think that kind of speaks to the wider mentality within that squad. And again, it goes back to the coach and having that sort of stability and that sort of authority and the continuity they have too. And they're just on a roll at the minute, even when they're not playing particularly well, even when they make rotations, they're still winning games.

23:12Daniel Storey: Like that Burnley game, obviously they win 1-0. They maybe could have scored a few more and missed quite a few chances. But there was a couple of players, obviously Rodri wasn't fit enough to start that match, somebody who's integral to that side, but maybe now is slightly less integral than they have been in four the same for Erling Haaland that you can bring others in and they can still contribute and I think that's Pep Guardiola constantly being able to evolve how his team plays what players they rely on that's something they've obviously done a lot better than Arsenal for instance who you kind of think their players have played so much this season there hasn't really been any rotation that's probably hurt them and then ultimately the cup competitions now the league players are looking tired they're looking late whereas City have maybe balanced that quite a bit better and Manchester City of course into their fourth final they don't want to be the team that loses three finals in a row either that happened to Chelsea that was the first ever time that a club had lost three finals in a row between 2019 and 2022 and now again seems to be City are into that pattern but that'll be a really interesting game because Chelsea haven't beaten City since the Champions League final in 2021 But Callum McFarlane is unbeaten against Pep Guardiola Yeah, exactly Alright, well City become the first team ever to reach four consecutive FA Cup finals They could win the domestic treble.

24:24It's only ever been done once before in England, and that was by City in 2019. So it'll be Manchester City versus Chelsea in the final of the Football Association Challenge Cup. That's on Saturday, May the 16th at three o 'clock. Believe it or not, we'll park the cup chat for now and get back to the day job, a.k.a. the Premier League, next.

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25:29Matt Davies-Adams: Why is he smiling? He knows. He's going to call me hemorrhoid Lloyd tomorrow. I know it. I've got to quit my job.

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26:07This is The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. This time they've played it in to Kai Havertz. It's a win, the strike! Oh, what a beauty!

26:29The fine margins might have been against him a week ago, but that one was perfect! Mikel Arteta's men back on top of the Premier League table. The Gunners finding one live round in their arsenal to Nobel Newcastle at Nürnberg Emirates Stadium on Saturday to E time. A very good goal it was too. Daniel, what camp are you in here? Important for Arsenal to win no matter what? That was a bit sludgy again and you didn't score very many goals.

26:59Matt Davies-Adams: I think those things can be mutually exclusive of each other. I think, you know, yeah, it was sludgy. It was sludgy. It was sludgy. It definitely was sludgy. And I thought that the goal difference narrative chat might give up Mikel Arteta a reason to, or an easy route to being more expansive in that it wouldn't be him compromising on his principles. It would simply be the situation demanding it. This could well go down to goal difference, so we want to score some goals. Newcastle have conceded more than once in each of the last four games, including a seven against Barcelona. If we go at them, we think they can be weak and got at.

27:38Matt Davies-Adams: And I think they could have been got at. And Arsenal scored early, and that was a platform for them to do that. And it didn't happen. It was really stodgy second half. They were probably lucky that Joanne Wister has forgotten how to shoot and has had a terrible first year at Newcastle because it was a delightful pass to him from which he could have scored. And if that happened, there would have been, you know, there would have been a near mutiny at the Emirates, I think, because Arsenal were going through that, controlling the fine margins and making sure we win the game pattern. That might change when they play Burnley at home, but I was surprised they didn't try and be a bit more expansive.

28:14Matt Davies-Adams: of yes. That said, I think if they get the points on the board and they play again before City do and go six points clear, I do think that raises, it sort of flips the pressure from Arsenal to City quite dramatically because they will have got over the mini bump, they will have won two games and they will believe that City can drop points. Does this speak to your point, Colin, a bit about Arsenal just looking a bit knackered whereas City look fresher?

28:40Daniel Storey: Yeah, I think that feeds into it. I think there's the real elements that Arsenal haven't evolved tactically in the same way other teams have evolved tactically. Arsenal peaked earlier in the season. They haven't rotated as much. All these things play a part. But I do think that Arsenal's home games at the minute, particularly their home games, are the added pressure of the fan base. Now, Tyler Adams, the Bournemouth midfielder, spoke about this last week. He's like, oh yeah, we knew that there was like, we could sense the pressure from the fans on the players. We knew it was playing a part. We knew we could take advantage of this.

29:09Daniel Storey: even Newcastle a team who had no confidence going this team terrible run of four missing a couple of key players they were still playing reasonably expansively and right until the end they could have scored from kick-off couldn't they? Yeah they could have scored from kick-off Bruno Guimaraes had a really good chance early on obviously Wissa missed a chance at the end but they were the team who if there was going to be another goal it sort of felt like they were going to do it and again it's this perception isn't it of Arsenal players having this added pressure that I don't think any other team who've gone for a league title recently have had I think a big part of that is the fact that the club haven't won it in so many years the fact that this team has fallen a little bit short maybe once or twice as well but it's more than that there's definitely more than that I think a lot of it is unnecessarily put on themselves from the club end I think Mikel Arteta for all his qualities as a manager and for all the authority he brings I think he adds a lot of unnecessary noise in the build-up to some of these matches it's like look this is how normal it is for us that we're doing something that we've never done before and we're telling everybody about it and we're so pumped for this and you know all the fans are pumped and all this all this big talk ahead of the game it's like why why are you talking differently now than you were in september october to take a game by game go through your matches and one of the narratives that i find a bit strange is winning 1-0 for these teams is like well you know this could be a goal difference thing would you take 1-0 for every game until the end of the season well i mean of course you would of course you would all these games are on a knife edge and you know these teams aren't like they're not the very best teams ever in the premier league this year i think that's well established i also think the level of the floor of the premier league is very high this year so every game is has got this jeopardy to it so of course winning 1-0 is good there's absolutely no question about that the question would be are you winning 1-0 by design are you controlling the game i'm not really sure arsenal are doing that at the minute but individually i just think you've got to see this is like it's three points in the context of what's going on in the past sort of two to three weeks that has to be a good result albeit not in the best circumstances do you think it's harder now to win a trophy in this kind of situation than it's ever been because if you think back to i don't know blackburn winning the premier league and you think about the way that the game was covered and what what surrounded the kind of architecture around um the sport in the immediate terms if you said something a bit strange in a press conference under pressure i know there's a very very famous kevin keegan example um but it didn't really register you also even tim flowers we've got bottle that's something that we've retrofitted onto that title it's also it's not even that weird in in in the circumstances it's entirely acceptable that someone would talk like that in addition to which every time there's an arsenal game for better or worse for an arsenal player there is this back and forth everywhere there's the kind of you're bottling it we're not bottling it there's um you know all the little banter squads that you get everywhere across sort of different you know fan content media you cannot escape it i know managers talk about players tuning stuff out it's not possible you just can't exist like that in the modern world and so for a player for a player for a coach when you're chasing something which is uh that elusive and has proven elusive over a couple of years and you haven't done it for so long that must be it must be like trying to emotionally run through treacle.

32:22Very, very difficult. So City have got three days off, Pep Guardiola says, ahead of their game against Everton. Not the same for Arsenal, obviously, Daniel. I mean, the next fixture could hardly be more hard work on the face of it. Away to Atletico Madrid on Wednesday. And you look at the follow-up to that, it's Fulham at home. That's framed quite differently if you've been playing at the Metropolitano a couple of days before.

32:47Matt Davies-Adams: It is. Because it's also a very easy pass for Arteta to play exactly as they have been playing, to play the no margin football. It's a first leg and it's away from home. So I think if there was one game that you wouldn't criticise Nicola Arteta for kind of closing it down, it would be this one. So I'd have no issue with that at all. I think what Seb says about the kind of noise is absolutely right. I think Nicolai Teta's behaviour has come from that. It's come from a determination or a belief that he has to get ahead of that or try and get ahead of that and say, look, this is what everyone's going to say about us.

33:22Matt Davies-Adams: So we need to be doubly steel. We need to be doubly passionate. We need to have double the amount of fight. The problem is, is that he has made that into bigger than it is. I think in that Blackburn title race, if Kenny Dalglish had set up a little fire on the training ground near Ewood and said that this is the fire that needs to enter my belly, I'd like to think I would remember that. And if they'd have then lost that title race, I'd really like to think I'd still remember that. So there are some weird stuff. It has done some odd things. But yes, the whole noise thing is like, yeah, you either shut it out or you try and take it on head first.

33:57Matt Davies-Adams: And Arteta is a head first guy. I'm just not sure it's the right way to do it.

34:01Daniel Storey: At the end of this game and you see all the Arsenal players collapsing on the pitch, you know it's it's not just a physical exhaustion i think it's the mental exhaustion of each of these games is such there is such a noise around it but such a an emotional energy goes into that and that's kind of why i think the champions league participation is is really problematic because it was at the games yeah here's will the imp on youtube agree with colin on arteta gabriel gives me similar vibes which is not ideal for a supposed leader the atletico madrid games will take a lot out of them emotionally and physically City will win it uh would you agree with that Seb I mean we I feel like we've been talking about the running and reading out fixtures for about six weeks now I think we all know them pretty much off by heart but is the Champions League and the fatigue is that going to be the decisive factor or should we pay more attention to the fact that Arsenal are actual top of the table I think you can spin it either way and I think also when when we lean into this kind of topic the opportunity to look silly is so great because you could say if you get a good result across those games the momentum and adrenaline that comes from that and the opportunity to exist in a Champions League final you could almost describe that as being you know a little bit more of a carrot than already exists at the same time if you were to handpick a team and a coach to play against in the middle of a title run it wouldn't be the ASE and me only would it Because in terms of, I think a lot of the generalities and cliches about Atletico are untrue.

35:28People still talk about it on the defensive side. It's not really the case. It's more of an emotional challenge, particularly when you go there. It's so oppressive and such a, it's like having a blowtorch held towards you. Then you can absolutely make the argument that there's going to be a fatigue issue there. But I don't know. I think whenever we see, for instance, oh, a team with nothing to play for, a team that can focus on things, a team which is motivated by this you end up looking silly look at Forest's win against um against Sunderland on Friday night Sunderland had everything to play for they were chasing Europe and then all of a sudden you're 4-0 down at half time and everybody who's predicted something or rationalized in a certain way looks like an idiot so it's very very hard and I like with a lot of these things including some of the stuff that Mikael Arteta says which is supposed to motivate his players if it goes well it looks very very smart if it doesn't he gets pilloried and YouTubed and memed forever and yeah it's the same for us right just in a smaller way yeah well quite important win for us anyway not without its cost though Kai Havertz off injured as a two seemingly he's not as serious they did get Bukayo Saka back but Havertz stopped start season continuing drama also in the Scottish Premiership title race Rangers beaten 3-2 at home to Motherwell then the leaders hearts came from behind to win 2-1 against nine man hibs in the Edinburgh Derby it Means Hearts are three points clear of Celtic, four clear of Rangers with four games to go.

36:54We should appreciate this season. Well, we've got it because all over the country and the world, it seems to be pretty tremendous. And nowhere more so, perhaps, he said, trying to find a segue that doesn't really work, than in the battle to stay in the Premier League. We'll get on to that next.

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39:40This is the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show Let's start at East London West Ham squeeze past Everson to ruin David Moy's birthday and maintain their bid for survival Callum Wilson with a 90 plus winner gives the Hammers a potentially precious three points how did you feel Seb when you heard the news? I was softened to the blow because I kind of I was I was lagging behind and so people on my whatsapp group spoiled it ahead of time so I was I was protected uh this was probably the game I expected West Ham to get something from I look at their upcoming fixtures and I'll be a little bit more concerned for them I'm trying to I'm trying to sow seeds of doubt you know I'm trying to create a little bit of anxiety and uh online um but no I I thought it was a really good response because actually they dealt with the malarkey around the penalty.

40:35Still don't really understand what accident and handball means. Should say also they probably should have had a penalty for Jordan Pickford's challenge, which was baffling. Every day, every week, a new strange VR moment. But the ability to respond positively when, if you watch it back now and you see the response in stadium to the Dewsbury Hall goal, you think, the air is right out of the balloon. the match the day camera is going straight to those people walking out how much have you paid for this people streaming into westfields you know for you know whatever what they find in westfield at that time of day um but the point being right is that that is a really good emotional response and also if they'd if they'd only drawn that game and then you have to go to brentford away then you have to face arsenal there could have been a situation where they were done within two games depending on what tottenham do um but yeah just a really good response a really really really important moment i think actually most of the tottenham fans i've spoken to were more concerned with their game because that was kind of at nil nil when west ham were in the lead that was a pretty lonely place that wasn't that didn't feel very tremendous like davis adams um but then once the victory it was like right that's done move on now and uh whatever happens at west ham will be Daniel you're a noted Callum Wilson stan he kept his composure there didn't he to slot in brilliant work from Bowen to set up the winner too but that's why they kept him around I guess or the fact that they just couldn't get rid of him

42:03Matt Davies-Adams: yeah you've read absolutely read my mind he was due to go to Leicester in the January Trans-Wimbledon so there's your sliding doors moment of English football this season because I'm sure he would have kept Leicester up because they needed a goal scorer they'd have paid handsomely for him I suspect but still and yeah he's he's he's been excellent all season he's third choice striker now he scored six premier league goals that have been worth six points uh sorry been worth seven points to west ham so that's the difference between them staying up and going down potentially and his goals per minute because he's only played a thousand minutes in the premier league his goals per minute is basically there's only harland igor tiago and crupy at bournemouth who are in a different ballpark to It's a goal every 180 minutes on the pitch.

42:45Matt Davies-Adams: And yeah, he can't play 90 anymore. He probably won't even start anymore. But he's one of those Premier League strikers, as Chris Wood proved last season, that if you just get the ball in an area and the defence is panicking, he will inevitably take up good positions. He doesn't finish every chance, but he will score goals. And yeah, I was really pleased for him because he has some rotten luck with injuries over his career, Callum Wilson. And he's just a really nice guy. So fair play. What about Everton, Colin? The first time in their league history they've conceded 90th minute winners in successive games.

43:17Another team who might have reason to be rueful this weekend. We mentioned Leeds, but it's going to be costly for them. They could. They could still qualify for Europe. But dropping points, maybe a lapse of concentration is too hard. But avoidable goals? Am I being too harsh?

43:33Daniel Storey: Maybe. I've sort of thought all season that Everton have been overperforming under David Moyes. but overperforming in a way that isn't very obvious because I don't really watch them and think, oh, that's a really good team that, you know, has got the capabilities of certainly qualifying for Europe. I don't think that's where this group of players should be. They've got some very good individual attacking players. Kiernan Duesby-Hall is one of them. He's had a fantastic season, probably one of the signings of the season. And even in this game, it was the same against Liverpool last week. You sensed that they had the momentum at 1-1 and, you know, you kind of think, if there's going to be a late goal, it's probably going to be for them.

44:09Daniel Storey: you spoke about the the sort of hundreds if not thousands of west ham fans streaming out of that stadium and west ham i think they've got more points for winning positions in everyone apart from newcastle and bournemouth so this is kind of like a theme for west ham and you know everton just didn't have that killer instinct i think that's just what they're missing they're they're lacking that they're not killers they're just a team who are kind of they're fine they can play well they're difficult to play against as an opponent but they slipped into the bottom half the table now and like of course it's so congested but as you say matt you know it's sixth place certainly isn't beyond them still but you kind of feel like if you're going to be dropping points in this manner at this point in the season it doesn't it doesn't add up particularly well what i would say about west ham very quickly is that this result this map that winner just felt so huge because not just because of the context of they've dropped so many points but it was so conditioned by all the results around them right and monday night's game against crystal palace when it finished nil nil that to me felt like oh they've really missed an opportunity there because if they had have won that's then two results clear of Tottenham two results with what four to five games remaining you're sort of thinking right you've got a real platform now you you're you're probably going to be okay and they missed that and then with Tottenham winning it was you know people talk about West Ham have been in good form they've only they only won two of eight going into Saturday's match in the league so you know you need to deal in wins at this point and I think was our colleague Roshan Thomas at The Athletic, the West Ham correspondent.

45:39Daniel Storey: He wrote a piece today about how it was the three headers that could save West Ham season. So the three headers are the Thomas Suchek goal at 1-0. The Thomas Suchek header off the line from Tierno Barry that hits the post and clears out. And I'm not even sure if Suchek really knows what he's doing. It's just instinctive heading it away. And then the Jared Bowen assist for the winning goal, which was brilliant to head that ball across the goal and to create the space for Callum Wilson. but I kind of think West Ham are definitely like a mid-table team right you look at the points since January and they're like sixth in that table Nottingham Forest are definitely at least the mid-table team I mean how many games have they lost of the last year or nine in the league in the Europa League semi-final so that's that's kind of the the space that we're operating in is that the teams who are battling to avoid relegation are all actually good teams in a way right so Most of them.

46:27Yeah, most of them. But that leads us nicely. Some of them, yeah. On to the next one. Colin says Everton are not killers. That's a good Logan Roy quote. So is, I love you, but you're not serious people, which maybe Seb has some resonance with you and Tottenham Hotspur. Here's CHS underscore 172 on YouTube. The Tottenham question, will they be able to pull off the miracle? They managed to beat Wolves, their first league win of 2026. They left it late. They were indebted to their much troubled goalkeeper for a great late save as well. But was this enough to convince you that the De Zerbi effect has fully kicked in?

47:03Yeah, there's certainly been an uptick. I think they actually played very, very well against Brighton. Obviously, the game didn't end as they'd wanted to. The 25th minute equalisers are like that, I guess. But there's been an improvement. I think De Zerbi, I mean, even in his short period of time as head coach, has suffered really rotten luck. He's lost Romero. Kudus to another operation and a setback in his recovery. Looks like Javi Simons might have a little bit of time out. Dominic Slanky came off in the first half at Molineux. So that looks like he's going to miss a bit of time. But there's certainly a little bit more resilience.

47:37Hey, a word on Antonin Kinski because if you go back to what he suffered, that night was as humiliating an experience as I've seen a footballer suffer through. And it would be shattering to anybody's self-confidence. he's come back in every game he's played not just against Wolves he's been really good he played very well at Sunderland played very well at Brighton not a fault in any way for either of the goals and um it takes tremendous courage right and great resilience just to get back on the pitch and to play the way he does which is expressive I want the ball I'm going to pass the ball I'm going to take risks with the ball it takes balls that takes balls so you play well I um stylistically that there's not a lot to get excited about but I don't think it takes a miracle for Tottenham to survive i think they're perfectly capable of beating villa who are in the middle of a two-legged europa league semi-final um their place in the champions league seems almost certain can't see how they slip up from there very little to play for you'd probably um give them a chance of getting something against leeds the chelsea game is the chelsea game but they've got edmonton at home i think the important thing is that um the performance is honest from this point on and i think if they are a lot of fans will be able to accept what happens afterwards because i think the thing that got Tottenham here yeah there are injuries clearly there's a lot of injuries it's been terrible luck they've had some bad luck with officiating certainly awful decisions at executive level but there's also been some performances from individual players are far below what they're capable of and I think if from now mistakes are fine defeats are fine but as long as you feel like you've got your money's worth as a fan in terms of you are rallying and raging against this rather than just accepting it because you know that come the end of the season you can go off somewhere else that's not acceptable whereas honest performances like the one at modern you where it was awful to watch but they got it done absolutely fine you you was talking earlier about or colin was talking about sort of what arsenal need and is one nil enough in every game of course it is same with spurs ball me rigid if you want but pick up the points absolutely fine and so um takes character it takes courage um you know it takes real personality to dig yourself out of a hole that this is that is this deep but they show plenty of that on saturday that's that's all you can ask for i know football can seem like it's just about the result sometimes but actually what you want from your team is a bit of spirit and something to stand beside and say hey you know what that's us rather than oh goodness maybe 20 other performances this season which i would term as unprofessional and dishonest um this is fine for now i can i completely agree with everything

50:12Daniel Storey: Seb has just said I mean and this almost goes without saying but the problem for Tottenham is that the other teams are winning and this weekend hasn't changed anything in fact the only thing that has changed is that Tottenham's most winnable fixture okay it's been won great but that's not gone I do think that yeah the Villa game may be not quite as tough as it is on paper due to their circumstances but every single one of those Tottenham matches even home to Leeds like how few matches Leeds have lost in the past couple of months at home to Everton Everton have had great away form obviously the Chelsea game is the Chelsea game and they could win two of those four matches which would be a really good return and that could still be down and that is the problem they have that this has just come a little bit too late and it only had they whenever they decided to move on from Thomas Frank which definitely came too late in itself that they made the wrong decision following that and now it's they're chasing it and that's the problem they've got the performances are clearly ticking in the right way but you know they need a lot of luck now as well if if Dezerbi pulls this off I think it would genuinely be a much much better achievement than than people would assume yeah i i really agree with that i also think there's real value now in short-term memory because the situation is what the situation is did tottenham faff over thomas frank yes did they make a mistake with equal judo yes did they make recruiting mistakes in january of course they did and the kind of johan lang is we won't panic line if there's not a tottenham podcast called that in six months time in an ironic way i'll eat my hat the point is right is that you know in the same way that politicians talk about talking yourself into a recession people get worried they start spending they start saving they start thinking you can do that with football you start talking your way into relegation where you focus on all the negative things and you kind of become accepting of it and you start talking about rotten luck and this is what we are for the time being may prove entirely futile just fix it just fix it because all you can do is what's in front of you and relegation happens relegation happens the club as the infrastructure to bounce back from it but you can't just self-pity your way through the remaining games and and kind of talk about injuries and squad shortages because it just doesn't matter it's not going to stop everybody laughing at you when you get relegated all right well the pressure was on Spurs and West Ham after Forest thumping 5-0 win at the Stadium of Light on Friday night so it's as you were in terms of points if not goal difference which might end up being meaningful Daniel Forest won 5-0 away from home ahead of their Europa League semi-final on Thursday day.

52:34That's not a question. It's just something that I wanted to say out loud. You can hang some meat on the bones for me, please.

52:40Matt Davies-Adams: I mean, it was, I think, probably the most astonishing result of the Premier League season so far in terms of my expectation for the pattern of the game, even leaving aside my partisan support for the team that did a madness, as they say. and all credit to Vitor Pereira because at half-time against Burnley he changed Forest's formation very quickly. What he's done tactically, he took off Dylan Backwood, which is a very easy decision. He moved Morgan Gibbs-White to what Morgan himself called a left 10 position. So he starts out nominally left, but he's expected to get into the box whenever he can.

53:20Matt Davies-Adams: They think that there's less pressure on him in terms of getting the ball, receiving the ball back to goal, left and central. Amari Hutchinson stretches the game on the right and they have two strikers on the pitch and that's changed the game and since then Forest have scored nine times in three halves Morgan Gibbs-White has scored four of those and assisted another Chris Wood scored Igor Jesus has scored everybody's contributed and it does feel almost as with Leeds in mid-season when Daniel Farker changed the formation almost felt like everything you thought you knew about this team is gone and this is a completely different team now.

53:58Matt Davies-Adams: It might not last. Their fixtures are still pretty hard. I still think Forrest need probably two more points or maybe a win to confirm their safety. But they are the top scorers in the Premier League since Vitor Pereira took over, which is astonishing. Morgan Gibbs-White is the top scorer in the Premier League in 2026, which is astonishing. But it's really interesting. Seb just spoke about pressure with Tottenham. And after the Burnley game, Morgan Gibbs-White was interviewed and he said, you know, it looked bad at half-time. And he said, yeah, we were just kind of, you know, he's paraphrasing.

54:29Matt Davies-Adams: He said, effectively, we were just completely tense. There was so much pressure on us. We knew we had to win and we felt it. And the manager told us at half-time, well, the pressure's gone now because you're losing. So, you know, you have to just go out there and express yourself now because that's how we'll be best. And they scored four times. They looked exactly like a team doing that again. They are now a very different proposition in the Europa League, which is still a, you know, a complication in terms of their league form. but yeah they look they look really good all of a sudden they look like they've got a system that works it also helps and this is a forest fans don't need telling this but Ibrahim Sangari has been magnificent since January since AFCON you know that provides a platform that Morgan Gibbs can stay high at the pitch I know that Spurs don't need to hear any more about this but him staying this season has been everything because he has been it's the best individual half season I can remember from a Forest player and there are some serious competition for that going back to our childhoods Matt he has just dragged the club with him he's dragged a manager I don't think he particularly liked when he could and he's now dragging a manager who he seems to really like because he's given him the tactical freedom to go and express himself and moving out to the left wing really really increases his chances of getting in that England squad I think because he was struggling I think unfairly against Foden and Cole Palmer to get in the squad because I think he's been better than both by a mile.

55:50Matt Davies-Adams: But if he goes out left, there is a lot more opportunity, I think. So maybe his season gets saved too. Nick says on YouTube, Maranac's strategy of having four managers worked perfectly. So when can we expect Roberto Dezerbi to get the push from Spurs then, Colin?

56:06Daniel Storey: Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. Obviously, Nolingham Forest have, well, they haven't stumbled upon it because, you know, Vito Pereira has been there for not very, very long time. but I went back to the stat from last month when Nottingham Forest had had 88 shots at the city ground across four matches and scored one goal. And there was like an XG of 6.8 or something, the 35 shots against Wolves with no goals. And you kind of look at that and you're like, oh, well, you know, eventually that's going to change, you know. But as Daniel said, that systematic change has now brought nine goals from 11 shots on target, right?

56:41Daniel Storey: So obviously there's two things going on. There's a systematic thing and it's a confidence thing. but that's through what Vitor Pereira has done and he did the same at Wolves a year ago when he kind of inherited a pretty poor situation a dressing room that was down players that were good but just didn't have the self-belief that they needed to go on and run the results and he has done the same thing again you score four goals in 20 minutes of that first half against Sunderland it's astonishing you get a bit of luck with the tri-human goal and the mistake of Sunderland playing out in the high pressing but again you make your own luck from being in those circumstances to begin with and now in Forest are just in this little rhythm now where they're playing really well they're really difficult to beat but they've added the goals now too I think they have the toughest drawn in of all these teams at the bottom and that's complicated by the two semi-finals of course against Villa but they're just the players are playing so well and the coach has got a tune out of them and again I just don't think this team should be anywhere near the position in the league that they are I think they've got too much quality to be there also Elliot Anderson scoring late on after a very you know emotional personal circumstances that he's gone through it's very nice to see to see that he might not be around Forrest too much longer but again he's been very important to them this season it just speaks to the quality that is actually in that team if you can get if you can get the best out of them yeah and when he leaves in the summer there'll be no ill will from Forrest at all not because of what's happened to him in his personal life but because he's been absolutely exceptional and he's always given his all it's amazing what what not having somebody shout at you and telling you to run can do isn't it it's utter woke nonsense but he's got forest playing again well let me ask you because i you know colin says yeah i mean elliot anderson's probably um probably won't be at the club beyond the summer what would your attitude be towards morgan gibbs white potentially not being at the club beyond the summer so this is interesting because Dan and I have different perspectives on this.

58:37Daniel, I don't want to speak for you, but the last time we talked about this, you think he might go to Villa as a Morgan Rodgers replacement if he goes. I think that Morgan Gibbs-White is going to look best playing for Forrest than playing for anybody else. He's the best player in the Forrest team. He's a captain most of the time. He's shown that he can get into the England squad whilst playing for Forrest. I wonder if he gets a bit lost in the shuffle if he goes somewhere else. But maybe Villa is the step up that he can make. I'm not sure if he's a Manchester City Arsenal even Manchester United level player I mean more in the terms of what would your personality towards him if for instance for Argan's sake if he said I want to move I want to go and play in the Champions League if you don't win the Europa League what's your do you wish him well there as you would in Elliot Anderson or are you kind of like hey Morgan no I think that I would wish him well because he's done so much single-handedly to keep us up not just this season but over other seasons Daniel would you be in a similar camp

59:33Matt Davies-Adams: yeah I would have If Morgan Gibbs-White had played badly this season, even if he'd have made it very obvious that he wanted to move at the end of this season, I would have probably forgiven him. It was very weird how that happened last summer. I think we can all accept that there was a fair period of time where Morgan Gibbs-White really wanted to join Tottenham Hotspur. I think that was pretty obvious. So for him to have not shown any disillusion whatsoever, in fact, the opposite, you know, the way he talks in interviews about wanting to lead the city, about spending time with the people of this city and wanting to reflect their values, that sort of stuff.

1:00:05Matt Davies-Adams: Yes, it's smart PR, but he didn't have to do it because he already had one foot out the door last summer. To do that and take on the captain's armband much more this season because of Ryan Yates playing less and to be the top-scoring midfielder and the top-scoring Premier League player in 2026 is beyond what I expected for this season. So, yeah, if he wants to leave, I'll be disappointed, but I would also say he gave me some of the best years of my forest watching life. So fair play. Good on him. Right, let's rattle through the rest of the weekend's action because we've touched on the truly important stuff, I think.

1:00:41But there was a pretty big game at Anfield where Liverpool beat Crystal Palace by three goals to one. But at what cost? Mo Salah's last appearance, potentially? I'm not a doctor, I'm a stand-in podcast host. I can't answer that, but we'll have a quick chat about the game anyway. It felt like a good time to play Palace, Seb. I don't know as much doubt about that but also feels like maybe over the last week Arna Slott's done quite a bit to keep himself in a job for next season with these wins in the derby and then this one as well which really cements fifth place yeah if you were if you were in the kind of the slot out camp you'd really hate it wouldn't you in a kind of very grudging way because you've won your derby you've played pretty well hey really nice goal from Ferenviets by the way lovely lovely hit great good for him um but yeah I don't think it's that time of season where you put too much into the results that you see because you say like palacer that was not palaces we know and i've seen them on the glasner over the past about 18 months so not sure i'm not i'm not sure i'm swayed and i'm not sure whatever position i held on on a slot has been kind of changed by anything i saw in that game uh daniel muñoz is not paulo de canio and 1930s goalkeeper freddie woodman played quite well that was my other analysis of this game colin yeah the muñoz goal you kind of see it and you think well did you have sympathy for him because i if you're in that position and you see what's happened i i don't necessarily think he processes what's going on in the same way that de canio did because he wasn't he wasn't involved in the instant i'm trying to give him the benefit wasn't as easy for um de canio to score either was it well yeah there's a couple

1:02:14Daniel Storey: of things i think i think the fact that there wasn't like a blatant foul or something that it happens like what right maybe oh there's a serious injury i mean the goalkeeper did play on yeah he could of course stop but i think if you're if you're from a liverpool point of view you're like well canate and van dijk just freeze instead of trying to defend the goal line which they clearly should should do in that situation i think and and they didn't um i i agree by the way on on on the arnie slot situation in that liverpool you know they have these games and they went by a couple of goals or whatever and they score a couple of nice goals and there's really some nice movements the andy robertson run and finish was was fantastic by the way and then you see florian of course you know he is such a good player um and he'll have moments that i've had an easy season but he still stands up and be and be counted in moments like that and he's got the quality but it's just i mean palace created what three or four really good chances of their own here like this is just so far from what liverpool have been over the past couple of years um and you you do hear things about you know how many of those players are moving on this summer it kind of feels they just need a sense of stability I'm not sure that the Liverpool fan base is behind the coaching set up at all even with these victories I might be wrong and maybe there's a sense that the mood has changed but I'm unconvinced by them I'm not sure where they're going to be ahead of next season it's very hard to put a place on that at the minute One more Premier League game to touch on it was the early kick-off on Saturday the Premier League's middle class concertining further as Fulham bested Aston Villa at Craven Cottage keeps their hopes of European football alive, which I've been trashing for weeks, whilst gives Villa something to think about in terms of their Champions League chase.

1:03:54Daniel, Seb says that Villa and sort of, or it might have been Colin, I forget, somebody said that Villa are pretty much nailed on. It was you, wasn't it, Seb, about Spurs? Nailed on for Champions League qualification. Try telling Eli Emery that, because he looked pretty angry on the touchline as his team missed chance after chance after chance. Is that just his default setting?

1:04:14Matt Davies-Adams: Yeah I think we're kind of in Emery season right which is the tight end of Europa League season in which he is determined to win and to not let anything get in that path and Villa starting to miss chances and looking a little bit sloppy in the final third is probably the last thing he wanted to see I mean this result is actually you could argue and this sounds like a little bit of a hot take but you could argue that this is the most important given the context of everything else that happened, is the most important result of the Premier League weekend. Because if Aston Villa finish fifth, and they are now fifth because Liverpool went above them, and win the Europa League, and they are favourites to win the Europa League, then England, the Premier League, will have six Champions League spots.

1:04:58Matt Davies-Adams: So that now goes down to, I think, what, sixth and twelfth were separated by, what, four points? So we've got a situation whereby Everton, even Palace, because they've got a game in hand, could, well, they feel feasibly definitely, if they win their last four games, and Villa win the Europa League, they might well get in the Champions League, which is just astonishing that we've got clubs with so little to, there's so, sorry, there's so few clubs with little to play for now. And yet, yeah, I just can't quite believe that it'll happen. But I thought about it a few weeks ago and that was when Villa were third and they looked like they were going to finish third.

1:05:31Matt Davies-Adams: But they've had a little Premier League wobble. At some point, if they keep having a wobble, they're going to have to prioritise one competition or the other. And I think it should be the Europa League because I don't think they're, I think they can easily finish fifth. But finishing fifth is brilliant for Brighton and Brentford and Bournemouth and, you know, Fulham and Everton and even Sunderland and Palace. You've got Newcastle on the edge of crisis and they're potentially six points off the Champions League places, which is just mad. I hate this. Not what Dan said. The idea that you can have six English clubs in the Champions League is nonsense.

1:06:05Absolutely nonsense. You've got, like, the game has never been, the division of wealth in the game has never been greater, right? and it's never been more of a problem there's never been a bigger issue in um the top five leagues of four plus one really because we've got a super league by stealth and you're just you're creating more avenues by which the separation can grow wider absolute nonsense it's five fine because that's the rules as bargained for by you know within this new uefa agreement which we're a couple years into now six come on come on and no one no one can think that's a good idea i mean okay if brighton sneak into it sure like their fans will be all for it no doubt but like the principle of it and the state of european football as it is we should be trying to we should be trying to increase social mobility where we are in football rather than

1:06:54Daniel Storey: this again so just to jump in quickly on that is that who benefits from a sixth a sixth team and i know what happened last year with tottenham and the europe league but i can sort of see that because a team goes out and wins a european competition say a forest would win the europa league i was like well you you know that's the path of the champions league but finishing sixth without a trophy i don't see who that's supposed to benefit because again that will only happen for the very top richest leagues that's something going to benefit them and i don't think that's good for the game it's certainly not good for you who want to sort of balance the things as much as possible it's also more dangerous than it was before because you have this you have this new league format eight guaranteed games the revenue that comes with that so the reward is even greater for this hypothetical sixth English team who are already the beneficiaries of the most decadent broadcasting agreement in European football as it is you don't need to do this there's no there's no sporting merit to it and certainly there's no kind of there's no commercial

1:07:58Matt Davies-Adams: there's no fairness merits to it I agree with all that but also if it's Brentford if it's Bournemouth losing Iola but the reward is Champions League or if it's Keith Andrews getting Brentford in the Champions League then I'm kind of fine with it because you know it I would be disappointed and Chelsea fans won't like me saying this but if it if Chelsea's the ones who kind of by default finish sixth and still get Champions League despite failings all season okay fine but uh I think if you're gonna have five and Brentford and Bournemouth are an extra one like you know the horse bolted in terms of competitive competition, right?

1:08:33Matt Davies-Adams: So it is what it is. It's also huge for fans of Sunday 2pm kick-offs because that's going to be the new Saturday 3pm next season. All right, well, we shall see about that. Jim Bell will be back for the Totally Football Show European Edition. That's out first thing on Tuesday morning, looking ahead to those huge Champions League semi-final first legs. Sepp's going to PSG against Bayern, your lucky thing. Game of the season potential there. There are other English clubs in European action this week as well. Forgot to mention that Palace will be heading to Krakow to play Shakhtar in the first leg of the Conference League semi-final on Thursday and that Forest Villa game same time as well.

1:09:11Women's Champions League semi-final first legs took place this weekend. Bayern 3-1 with Barcelona in Munich. Arsenal came from a goal down to beat Lyon 2-1. They take a lead to France then next Saturday. An incredible error from Christian Endler, the Lyon goalkeeper. again. Arsenal back into the game in that one. There will be more on the European action and more, as I say, on Tuesday's Euro edition. Tech will be back with you later in the week as well. Jimbo back for that one, but that's where we'll leave things for today. So it's thanks then to Seb, to Colin, to Daniel and to you, listener, stroke viewer and to Jake and Charlie in the booth as well.

1:09:46Of course. Jimbo back with you Tuesday. For now, though, from all of us, here's goodbye.

1:09:54You've been listening to the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts,

1:10:04Matt Davies-Adams: search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:10:20The Athletic FC.

1:10:28Happy New Year, Rafa!

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