Chelsea humbled, City swept aside but Eze blasts Arsenal through

0:00Do you want your soccer analysis more direct than an Arsenal set piece? Join me, Max Rushton and the Guardian's expert soccer journalist for the latest action and news from the Premier League to the Champions League and all the way to the World Cup. We'll have chat more out of the box than a Dominic Sobber's live free kick, more panellists than Chelsea have players and unlike VAR, we know where to draw the line. For fine margins, fun debates and full-blooded tackles, Football Weekly, listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.

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1:43The Athletic FC.

1:51Liam Twomey: Tony Football Show today, Tuesday night, tough on English teams and the causes of English teams at the Etihad. Man City have their manager in check, but not, unfortunately, Real Madrid. At Stamford Bridge, Chelsea do at least get penalties, but only the ones from the Premier League as they go 8-2 down on aggregate to PSG. We talk that, Arsenal safely past Leverkusen, Sporting giving Bodo's fairytale run a grim ending and more. Plus, Tuesday's shock AFCON news, Brentford Wolves, Ashley Cole and more in this Totally Football show.

2:25Liam Twomey: It's a big Totally Football show for you. Extra one on the Wednesday because we've had a lot going on on Tuesday night. Here in the studio, we've got the Athletics senior tennis writer, Charlie Eckershire. Hello. He dabbles in football, luckily enough. Liam Toomey. There you are, Liam, of the Athletic. Very much on the Chelsea beat. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm feeling very good about my prediction the last time I was on this show that Chelsea might prefer to draw PSG than Newcastle. Right, right. Well, you never know what could have happened against Newcastle. Yeah. Of course. Could have been worse. I mean, that was slightly more measured at the weekend, but yes.

3:00Liam Twomey: And also here with us, Jay Harris of the Athletic, currently Spurs correspondent. I feel like right now I'm Spurs, Brentford and AFCON correspondent. Right. Just all rolled into one. Something we were just touching on before we actually started today's show is whether you have a relegation clause in your contract. I'm still negotiating that with my agent, but Brentford have already reached out to me. Some fans have said, I'm welcome back whenever I want. Are you intrigued? Because a lot of fans in a sort of, I don't know, way to protect themselves, maybe emotionally, are like, you know what? Maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

3:33Maybe it'd be quite fun, you know, go to different grounds. Where's your head at as reporter-wise? My head is at earlier this season, I went to Bodo Glimt away, PSG away. You know, some nice Champions League away tires, get to explore different parts of the world. And now Lincoln. Yeah, exactly. So I know which one I'd prefer. Right. Have you been to Lincoln? I haven't, no. So maybe I'm, you know,

3:50Liam Twomey: shooting it down before I'm giving it a proper chance. Exactly. We'll see how it turns out. Spurs for now, not only a point above the bottom three, but also showing significant signs of life at the weekend. We'll be maybe touching on Spurs a bit more tomorrow after their second leg tonight against Atletico Madrid. But plenty from Tuesday and indeed Monday to touch on in the course of today's show. Let's first of all get the results. Champions League games, Chelsea and Man City, of course, both looking to take early leads after their disastrous first legs. Instead, City against Real Madrid got Bernardo Silva sent off for deliberate handball.

4:25Liam Twomey: Vinicius Junior converting the penalty. City did equalise with 10 men, but a second Vinny goal sent the Madrilenos through 5-1 on aggregate. They were almost certainly faced Bayern Munich in the quarterfinals. Meanwhile, Chelsea against Paris Saint-Germain were 5-2 down from their first leg. And at the bridge, somehow did even worse. They were 2-0 down inside a quarter of an hour. They lost 3-0 on the night, 8-2 on aggregate, 8-2. Paris Saint-Germain will get either Barcelona or Newcastle in the quarterfinals. Arsenal are for now the only English side to make the quarters. They were 2-0 winners over Bayer Leverkusen.

5:02Liam Twomey: They will face Sporting Club de Portugal. Sporting, who unlike the English sides, did manage to turn around their 3-0 first leg deficit. And more, they beat Bodo Glimm 5-0 on Tuesday. Only the fifth team ever actually Sporting to come back From a three goal First leg deficit In the Champions League Then can you name The other four You probably can actually Barcelona Yeah It's PSG Yeah Sorry a four goal deficit No three There were four of them Roma did it to Barca To Barca Liverpool did it to Barca To Barca Oh Deportivo Yes Did it to Milan Famously against That Milan side Yeah 2004 Okay well we'll see if Spurs can become the sixth team to do it.

5:48Liam Twomey: On Wednesday night, they are 5-2 down against Atletico Madrid, but welcoming the Madrilenios to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Newcastle will be away in Barcelona. Of course, that's 1-1 from the first leg. 10 ,000 Geordies, they say, making the trip. Woof. Bayern will be taking their narrow 6-1 lead into a home match with Atalanta. And Liverpool host Galatasaray slot side 1-0 down. from the first leg. So that one's going to be very intriguing. Anyway, we'll talk about all of those games tomorrow. Right now, we're going to begin with Man City Real Madrid. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

6:29Liam Twomey: Apurando el último minuto de partido. Dani Carvajal, Chouamini, segundo palo, Vinicius. Este gol, levanta la mirada hacia el asistente, Vinicius. Este sí va a subir al marcador. I think it's good. He's still going to the mark. I think the pass was very good. And Vinicius definitely resolves getting his second pass. Wow, Vinicius Jr. there. He had a big night. Jay, you were watching this game as Man City started well. But unfortunately, that Bernardo Silva incident. Should caveat that I tried to watch this game and then the AFCON drama, which we'll get into later. very much disrupted my attention in the second half.

7:13But it was the first half where the game was won and lost. And you're right, Man City did start quite well. But actually, in the first 60 seconds, Valverde had a chance. He was one-on-one, that in-to-out run that we saw him do, or rather out-to-in run, we saw him do so many times in the first leg. And he managed to do it again. And it was just a save from Donnarumma. And then straight away, Cherky had a shot that was saved. Rodri had a shot that was saved. Hoisin pulls off this pretty remarkable block on Rinders. and you thought there's a fantastic energy to this game. Before kickoff, I was watching the Amazon coverage and Alan Shurer spoke about Man City finding the balance between going for it but not leaving themselves exposed and it felt like they just didn't care about that whatsoever.

7:54And that's how the red card happens just because they were pushing so many players forward. Like I said, they already got caught out once with a Valverde chance. Vinicius Junior runs through, smacks the post, Brahim keeps the ball alive and then Bernardo Silva gets sent off for the first time in his career at possibly the worst time in the game. And from that point onwards, he just felt like Madrid were going to cruise to it.

8:15Liam Twomey: Was it a dumb red card to get? No, because I think if you're in that, sometimes when you're in that position, it's very easy for us to judge. But at the end of the day, he's tried to sort of tuck his elbows out in. I mean, he's stuck his elbow out. that's what I'm trying to say it's an instinctive saying but how long has he been a professional player for? well I mean and also Bernardo Silva the fact that's his first career red card he's very very good at staying right on the edge of the line not quite going over it and then this was isn't the most high profile example of that strategy one where it worked like Luis Suarez punching the ball off the line if you save the penalty and somehow go on I mean it was unlikely that early in the game That was very late as well.

9:04I mean, that was, yeah, last minute. But yeah, I think it is just instinct. He can't quite help himself. So it's a shame that happened because the first 16, 17 minutes of the game were electric and it still was a very entertaining game after that. You just felt like there was going to be no hope for Man City. They were just going to leave so many gaps at the back, pushing that many people forward that Madrid could pit them off on the counter. And to be honest, I'm amazed this game was only 2-1 because both teams had a crazy amount of chances.

9:32Liam Twomey: Is it the last time we'll see Pep's Man City in the Champions League? Possibly. It's hard to say. I think sometimes in the past when we've seen... So is this the second consecutive season in a row where Man City haven't got to the quarterfinals? That is going to grate at Pep, right? So there's definitely probably a part of him that says, you know, I'll challenge for the league titles, not go in the way that I want it to with this team I've sort of constructed on the fly in the middle of the season. Our Champions League campaign for the second year in a row has gone wrong. So will he sort of be, feel like he has a point to prove in the summer, potentially?

10:10But then also maybe it's a sign that it's time for him to walk away from it. Possibly. What's strange as well. Oh, sorry. Sorry, I was just going to say about City. What's strange as well is they just seem to have, you say he's constructed this team on the fly, but has he constructed it? I don't know. It feels like they've signed a lot of players that aren't really Pep players, as if they're almost planning for a time. I mean, Enzo Mareska thought they might be planning for a time after Pep. But ultimately it comes down to what's in his head, doesn't it?

10:36Liam Twomey: Whether he wants to carry on. Poor Pep having to deal with all these players coming in, gay and seemingly. Thankfully other teams. Half a billion since last January of players coming in. Well, they did do well in 10, even though they went down to 10 men. I should also say that you know, Bellingham wasn't in the squad, although he did travel. And Bappe came off the bench. So this was still quite an underpowered Real Madrid team. I thought I thought Brahim had a really good game. And there is, watch it back. There's one moment where he leaves Ruben Diaz on his ass. And Diaz's very lucky Donnarumma saved that shot because it gave me imagery of when Messi turns Boateng inside out.

11:13But because Diaz didn't score, it won't get clipped up in the same way. So, yes, Man City had a lot of chances. Madrid's goalkeeper played very well. But I think they always... Both of them. Yeah. I just felt like they always knew that if they needed to, they could have gone up multiple levels and won the game.

11:30Liam Twomey: OK. Real Madrid, who do seem to be turning up again as we get to the sharp end of the season, they did see Courtois go off at half-time with an injury which Aboulas said was nothing serious. But what the actual extent of the injury is, we don't know. They do have the derby coming up at the weekend with Atletico. They have a nine-point margin over their neighbours in the Liga at the moment. Still, Courtois going out would be absolutely colossal, especially given the way that he played in the first leg and invariably in these big matches. They will face Bayern Munich in the quarterfinals unless Atalanta do something totally unprecedented in the history of football.

12:06Liam Twomey: That game 6-1 from the first leg for the Bavarians. And we'll see how Real Madrid get on against Bayern. That'll be a proper quarterfinal. As you say, Mbappe and Jude Bellingham battle, though people who follow Spanish football question whether that would necessarily be a positive for our belowers side. As for City, they've got the Carabao Cup final coming up after spending most of this game in 10 men. Guardiola did take Haaland off in the 55th minute and to me that sort of felt like this game is pretty much done. Let me have one eye on the Carabao Cup final on Sunday. Okay. We'll talk about what happened with Arsenal, their opponents in that match a little bit later on.

12:47Liam Twomey: But next up, let's hear about what happened at Stamford Bridge. Liam, did they do the huddle first of all? Apparently they kind of did it twice. Rosinha had signalled that they weren't going to do it around the centre circle, around the ball this time, because they didn't want to antagonise anyone or make a sideshow. So they did it slightly inside their own half. But then apparently they did a sort of half-hearted second huddle around the centre circle when the ball wasn't there, which struck me as very disrespectful and might explain what happened later. Oh, OK. What happened later, Liam? Well, it went wrong very quickly.

13:23and within five minutes I'd say Liam Rosinha's biggest selection decision which was Mamadou Saar effectively playing right back it wasn't that clear when the team news dropped but once the teams were out on the pitch it was clear that he was effectively the right back for the first time in his professional career within five minutes Safanov just clips a free kick over the top, Chelsea are defending incredibly high. Sarr is 1v1 defending against one of the best wingers in the world in Kvarek Scalier, miscontrols the ball, Kvarek Scalier just eases him away and finishes it absolutely clinically on his left foot.

14:02Sarr tussling with Kvarek Scalier, who's got the wrong side of him, and that's the worst possible start. That's exactly what Chelsea didn't want to happen. You could feel, I mean, I wasn't at the stadium, but even through the TV, you could feel the air go out of the ground immediately because everyone of a Chelsea persuasion knew they needed to score first to even make a game of it. And PSG knew that as well, which is obviously why they celebrated that goal so much. And from that moment, it honestly felt like PSG could score anytime they wanted. And their second goal was just as damning in a slightly different way for Chelsea in that they Caicedo hammers the ball at Andre Santos in the centre circle Chelsea give it away PSG break it gets played back to Bradley Barkler in the position that you would expect Andre Santos to be really he just takes a touch and half follies the ball absolutely majestically into the top corner from outside the box and I mean PSG were utterly clinical and this this tie to me was a demonstration of why they can win this tournament again but it It was a massive, brutal lesson for Chelsea in just how far off they are.

15:13Didn't Chelsea end up with a higher XG over the two legs? They did. They did. But I always feel like with XG as well, do you have an accumulation of lower quality chances versus a smaller number of very high quality chances? I mean, once PSG were 2-0 up in this game, they basically stopped attacking for an hour. They were just keeping the ball. I don't know whether they took pity on Chelsea. I don't think they feel a great deal of pity for Chelsea after the Club World Cup final, but they certainly seem to be conserving themselves. And the third goal just kind of came about in the rhythm of what they were doing, really.

15:49Liam Twomey: Right. A week ago, the sort of second half comeback from Chelsea and the fact that they were going to be welcoming Paris Saint-Germain to theirs led to a bit of a feeling that this was going to be different. But it sounds like it was actually worse than a week ago. Oh, it was absolutely worse. I mean, in the first leg in Paris, they played well for 74 minutes, albeit you can still question, I think, the approach that they took, which was essentially baiting the best pressing team in Europe and assuming that nothing would go wrong at any stage with a goalkeeper who's barely played for this team in Philipp Jorgensen, who eventually presented the ball to Barcola and then naively chasing the game in the final 15 minutes, which really lost them the tie.

16:30I mean, if they'd come back level, OK, this game may still have gone this way, but it would have felt very differently going in. And I think the atmosphere may not have turned as quickly as it did. As it was, I think PSG just exhibited the true gap between these teams, which wasn't really evident at MetLife Stadium last summer. OK. Can I just ask what's the feeling around Rosinha at the moment? because I feel like I've watched it from a distance and it seems like started with a little bit of credit in the bank, but some of the events inside and outside of his control over the last couple of weeks are sort of turning people against him.

17:06Yeah, I mean, there was obviously a bit of scorn initially for the whole LinkedIn Liam stuff. Some of the quotes that immediately surfaced, ageing men, all this sort of thing, which actually predated him coming to Chelsea from his time at Strasbourg. And I think he'd largely avoided a lot of that at Chelsea, but then the respectable quote at Newcastle, the fact that he fed the sideshow that that huddle became, I think eliminated a lot of goodwill. But more substantially, I think, regarding Chelsea fans and what they think of him, I think he started quite well because there was quite an easy run of games for Chelsea.

17:41But he did have some damaging draws at home before the fixture list really turned against Leeds and Burnley. and I think across this tie there have been some big questions about the decisions that he's made you know, bringing in Jorgensen muddying the waters around Chelsea's number one situation at a key stage of the season and now Jorgensen's injured anyway so he's had to go back to Sanchez and then in the second leg bringing in Mamadou Sarr which was to some degree forced upon him by the fact that Rhys James is out Malo Gusto was ill but you still have Joshua Champong who's at least played at right back for Chelsea and has played more for Chelsea than Mamadou Saar, a lot of fans are questioning why it was a choice between a 20-year-old and a 19-year-old, and that's a bigger question for Chelsea's squad construction.

18:31Liam Twomey: Right. I'm sure they can go out and sign like, oh no, actually. Well, they can still sign players, quote, post-punishment. We'll come to that in a second, but this equals their heaviest ever aggregate defeat in Europe. Charlie, you were mentioning some of the terrific work that memesters have done on the whole 8-2. Or as you put it, 2-8. Chelsea fans not wanting 2-8 until the final score. That was quite dramatic how few fans were left at the end. I was actually in some ways more surprised that as many stayed as they did until the end. I feel like that was an old-fashioned stubbornness of we've paid this much money to be here.

19:09We're going to get some sort of value even if that value is only anger. Let's amortise our tickets in the spirit. Yeah, but hundreds did leave at half-time on the hour mark. Do you think he'll still be manager at the start of next season? It's really hard to say. Obviously, Chelsea made a big statement, not for the first time by giving him such a long contract when he came in. These contracts don't ultimately mean much. Does he need to get Champions League football, do you think, to keep his job? It hasn't been presented at this point to us as a red line, but it's clearly massively important to the club and everything they're doing.

19:47If they don't get Champions League, it heavily conditions what they do in the transfer market this summer, the decisions they make. Maybe it prompts major players to think, maybe I can move on. And of course Enzo Fernandes, which we may come on to, came out and hinted that his future at the club is not certain after the game. Great tactical timing, by the way. Distract from the defeat.

20:11Liam Twomey: It's funny because he's generally such a sympathetic figure. so thought through with his decisions. I have to wear the captain's armband for the rest of the season. Chelsea currently lying sixth, as you probably know, a point outside the potential Premier League places. They've got Everton away this weekend. Presumably they won't be able to call on Chalabert for that game or Rhys James, is that right? Rhys James, definitely not. Chalabert, most likely not. It looked like a really bad one. He was stretched off later on. We've since heard Rosinia said he'd spoken to Chelsea's medical staff and it sounded like a high ankle sprain, which is probably the best case scenario given what we saw.

20:50That's still, you would think, a few weeks. How long's James? Do they have a sense yet of how long James? Well, it's a hamstring and James has had a lot of hamstring problems in the past. So they've tended to be cautious with his recovery. You know, it wouldn't shock me if he misses the bulk of the run-in. Does that sort of sum up Chelsea's luck that he signs a contract on course for his best availability in a season since, was it 2021? And then a couple of days after that contract extension, he gets injured. I couldn't quite believe it when I read it. Well, there's a live conversation among Chelsea fans about how much of it was luck because they've carefully managed his load for 15 months.

21:27And then in the two weeks before he got injured, he played 90 minutes four times, which they generally avoided. And one of the key reasons why Maresca got into trouble with Chelsea, we were told was that he disobeyed or went against medical advice with James.

21:42Liam Twomey: Right. So would you put that decision to field him for a full 94 times down to the manager disobeying again? Or was that the medical staff getting it wrong? Because that's one of the things we heard about Liam Rossegna, that he was there because he was a company man. Well, that's one of many things we're making inquiries about. But, you know, selection is ultimately the coach's remit. So in Rossegna's defence, this is the time of the season in which you do need your best players, most of them, to be able to play every three days because there is no chaff in the schedule, really. There's no moment.

22:17And Chelsea had this last year where they'd have a conference league game in midweek where they could just rotate 11 players. And they found this year that Premier League, Champions League is a very different, less forgiving dynamic.

22:28Liam Twomey: OK. Rhys Jett is such a shame. I mean, I really think he could be a sort of Premier League all-time player were it not for these injuries. I think he's the best footballer at Chelsea. He's so good. and yet obviously he has these injury problems and it also, it's very difficult then for the club because you're not going to go out, well, maybe they will, and spend tons on a right back because you've got this amazing right back but you know he can't play all the time so it leaves you in a slightly tricky position because you know you can't really rely on him but he is still there and he's an absolutely elite player.

22:59Yeah, and they've tried to mitigate that in some ways and putting him in midfield quite a lot which again can muddle your midfield planning a little bit because he's not really, he doesn't fit squarely into any individual role in midfield. He's just a very good footballer. Yeah. And you kind of need him on the pitch as much for what he means to the club as what he is as a player because he's an emerging leader. I think genuinely so. He's grown as a leader. He's got a genuine connection with the fans and I think he's got respect in that dressing room and he's one of the more experienced players.

23:35Liam Twomey: Well the bad news didn't end there for Chelsea there was also Monday's news of a record Premier League fine for their transfer dealings we'll get on to that next

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25:20Do you want your soccer analysis more direct than an Arsenal set piece? Join me, Max Rushton, and the Guardian's expert soccer journalist for the latest action and news from the Premier League to the Champions League and all the way to the World Cup. We'll have chat more out of the box than a Dominic Sobbers-Lyfe pre-kick, more panellists than Chelsea of players, and unlike VAR, we know where to draw the line. For fine margins, fun debates and full-blooded tackles, Football Weekly. Listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.

25:51This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. All right, Liam.

26:06Liam Twomey: So Chelsea handed a Premier League record fine of£10.75 million and a one-year ban from signing first-team men's players suspended. Plus restrictions on their academy signings for the next nine months because of their rule breaches in transfer dealings between 2011 and 2018, back in the Abramovich era. What exactly did they do? yeah so leaving aside the academy thing which is a slightly different punishment that was the 750 thousand pound element of the fine um the first team uh breaches were to do with third-party investment undeclared payments to unregistered agents through sort of offshore companies that were concluded to be either under the control of or associated with roman abramovich and that all sounds a bit abstract but what you need to know is that among the deals that were linked to this were Eden Hazard, David Luiz, Ramirez, Nemanja Matic, big players in the 2010s for Chelsea, chiefly Hazard obviously who was the driving force behind most of what they did in that decade.

27:20So there's a point that the Premier League and Chelsea were very very keen to stress probably to head off furious complaints from other Premier League clubs that there was no sporting sanction here which is that the Premier League's financial modelling and apparently accountancy firms did their own independent modelling suggests that even if these payments were added to Chelsea's books in the applicable years they would not have failed financial controls like PSR which is has been the trigger for the Premier League to give out points deductions to Everton to Nottingham Forest. What was not in the sanction agreement that the Premier League released were the words sporting advantage, which Chelsea clearly got from getting these players.

28:07And, you know, why else do these payments happen if not to help ensure that these deals happen?

28:13Liam Twomey: Right. But the feeling was that Abramovich being Abramovich, that they would have been able to do these by any other means as well. They wouldn't have incurred any kind of PSR or anything like that, because that didn't exist at the time. Yeah, yeah. And any kind of previous financial controls they apparently wouldn't have fallen foul of either. And there's also the counterfactual of if they hadn't signed these players, they would have signed other players. Chelsea under Abramovich signed a lot of players for a lot of money. Similarly illegally, potentially. Sign other illegal players. That's a big deal.

28:45Potentially. Didn't they also cooperate? That seemed to be a line that seemed to be stressed presumably by the league and the club. The big reason given by the Premier League for why Chelsea got no sporting sanction, but also why their financial penalty and the transfer ban were ultimately reduced was that they self-reported when the new owners came in. They discovered this in due diligence, declared it to the FA and the Premier League and UEFA. UEFA already fined Chelsea in 2023. The FA is still expected to punish Chelsea separately for a lot of this stuff. but likewise it probably won't be a sporting sanction okay how much does 10.75 million pounds impact them well not not really anything because when the new owners bought the club they held back 150 million pounds from the purchase price when they discovered these things right to cover potential financial liabilities from these financial regularities that they discovered so

29:43Liam Twomey: that money will come out of that pot okay second question the ban which would have an impact on them on signing new first team men's players is suspended so if they don't have any other infractions committed or discovered in the next 12 months it won't be triggered yeah which would it be so past things could still trigger it i think there was a there was an element in the sanction agreement that said that if the premier league discovers at any point in time that there were more infractions here or things that weren't declared by the new ownership that they reserve the right to go back and punish Chelsea but ultimately if nothing else comes to light or they don't do anything else they'll just be they're in the clear from a transfer perspective okay my other question was does this mean the Premier League are slowly working their way through their case backlog and might get to you know other clubs well on the yeah given that this took them the best part of four years.

30:40Right. I imagine we'll get the Manchester City judgment sometime in the 2030s. You say that, but four years with cooperation. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, not with hostile, delaying tactics at every stage, allegedly. Wow.

31:00Liam Twomey: Spurs looking for a three-goal turnaround tonight. They could take inspiration, Charlie, from another London team that plays in white. on this day 16 years ago this day being the 18th of March came possibly the greatest night in Fulham's history yes let's know they were in the last 16th of the Europa League I know they were taking on Juventus they'd lost 3-1 to them in Turin and in the opening minutes of the return leg at the cottage they went a further goal down 4-1 down now to La Signora however a red card for Cannavaro and then four blistering Fulham goals especially that last one oh my word Clint Dempsey.

31:37Liam Twomey: This. Dempsey. And Dempsey will try and chip on. Wonderful. Absolutely brilliant. A sensational goal from Clint Dempsey. May well have knocked Juventus out.

31:56Just one of the great Fulham moments.

31:59Liam Twomey: Anyway, the Cotches made it all the way to the final. We made a totally extra about that. We did. That was very enjoyable Charlie, you were with us And Duncan Alexander Felix White From the Maccabees Or Maccabees Maccabees Yeah Which I really enjoyed Have a listen He was great Yeah, he was good You were good as well, Charlie Thanks Fulham were great Anyway There you go That was the 18th of March, 2010 Now Back to this week And Arsenal With two no winners Against Leverkus And Charlie, you were actually there At the Emirates for this Yes So you were there for yet another epic goal. Yeah, an absolutely incredible goal.

32:41Sort of exactly what Eze was brought in to do. Like it's a very un-Arsenal goal, really. You know, you think of Arsenal, I mean, obviously going back all the way to the Wenger days if they try and walk it in. But even this iteration, they have lacked that sort of, a forward who'll just, you know, score a mad goal like that. You know, Saka's a brilliant player, but that's not really his game, nor Trossard, Martinelli. or Odegaard but as a yeah I mean an unbelievable strike he is one of the purest strikers of a football I can remember seeing really I mean you think back to last season as well FA Cup final and the semi-final he just scores he scores spectacular goals and comes to life in March March to May he has this incredible record of goal scoring way better than in the rest of the year so it's like this is this idea he kind of comes out of hibernation and is reborn and is kind of playing out because he also scored a spectacular goal against Mansfield in the Cup.

33:39I think it was still late February, but he scored the two in the North London Derby. He basically this season has either scored against Spurs or scored a really spectacular goal or both. That's sort of been his vibe. Excellent. I think this was the best of the bunch.

33:53Liam Twomey: This came 36 minutes into the game. Arsenal had already had six shots on target at this point. Yeah, it was one of those games where it was a classic, it might take something special to beat this goalkeeper. I mean, he really was making some amazing saves. And, you know, it was just getting to that point made you think, like, is it going to be one of those nights? You know, because he did seem sort of unbeatable. So it was very timely. And, yeah, I mean, having someone who can do that if you are against either a goalkeeper who's inspired or you're against a very well-organised defence is incredibly valuable.

34:29Liam Twomey: It's Ezzer for Arsenal It's an old

34:37Pick that one out A stunning strike from Ezzer It took something special to beat Blaswich And you've just seen it Arsenal won by a Leverkusen nil A rocket from Eberici Ezzer

34:55Liam Twomey: Declan Rice, he's pretty useful as well doubled the lead in the second half with another fine goal again from open play by Leverkusen socials had been busy again ahead of this one they put up a picture of the London eye with the caption no corners at all if only it was like that everywhere in London very good yeah this is a really really brilliant finish as well I mean he also wins the ball back it's quite an odd I mean Rice's vibe is quite often sort of like just best kid in the playground bigger than everyone, stronger than everyone, can run faster. And this was quite that sort of goal, just like, I'm going to shove you out the way and just run forward and score.

35:36You don't expect to see it in a Champions League knockout game, but it's a really good finish. I just fully thought it was wide when he hit it, but he managed to curl it sort of perfectly. I think it sort of kisses the post on its way in. So two brilliant goals. They created loads of chances. I mean, this wasn't, I think it had 12 shots on target, I think is the most of any game they've had this season. You know, we're used to in the Premier League, teams making life very difficult for them and they can often struggle to, if not create, but certainly to score. This wasn't like that. You know, Leverkusen were, I think, A, Leverkusen were a bit more open.

36:13I think Arsenal, there was just a bit more freedom about the way they played, more rotations. Like, Trossard was popping up all over the place and presume he was instructed to do so. So Eze was kind of gliding around the pitch. There's been talk about sort of where he should be playing, but when he's at his best and he's just flowing, it doesn't really matter where he starts. And just before he went off, which looked like an injury, he then said he was fine. He kind of glided through again and ended up having a shot that was blocked. He maybe could have played in Saka. But yeah, it was pretty serene, pretty stress-free, really.

36:50I caught a bit of this game, tried to double screen, which is actually quite stressful. And one thing I noticed was that Jokeres was just running through into so much space so often, whereas in the Premier League, he's very used to sort of being in the penalty box, waiting for ball, fighting with strikers. That was quite noticeable. But I also think Leverkusen sort of, they put themselves into trouble with the second goal because it actually starts from a corner. and when the corner is cleared, instead of clearing the ball, one of the Leverkusen players makes a fantastic first touch but he sort of rolls the ball backwards but all of his teammates have sort of run ahead of the ball and then that's how the ball eventually works into the corner.

37:32Arsenal win it back and it ends up with Rice but it looked like a fantastic touch but I thought, why have you done that in the middle of your own box and it's just such a silly error?

37:42Liam Twomey: Leverkusen go out, Arsenal go through to the quarterfinals where they will take on Sporting Club de Portugal who beat Bodo Glimp 5-0. 5-0. Mentioned this, the fifth team ever to come back from three goals down in the first leg because they were totally done by Bodo but Bodo looked kind of done in this game. I don't know how much... Did you? Yeah, it was a relentless siege on the Bodo goal. It did just feel like they'd completely run out of steam and Sporting brought so much intensity from the start and it was just wave after wave of attack. Probably the least surprising of those three goal comebacks.

38:20Right. I think a lot of people were expecting that. So far? Yes. It was the kind of game that made you feel like how did the first leg happen?

38:28Liam Twomey: Well, they named an unchanged 11 for the sixth Champions League game in a row which never happened before. Against that, they didn't have any league worries or fixture commitments but I think the suggestion was a little bit that, yeah. I don't know. How do you think it happened? I don't know. I think they just, they set up kind of defensively, Boda, but it was almost like they were a mid-block, like they weren't trying to camp on the edge of their own box. I mean, they'd previously gone past Man City, Atletico Madrid, Inter, and then did sporting in the first leg. And through all of that, we did hear about the fact that their guiding principle was don't worry about winning, just go out and play.

39:07Liam Twomey: And maybe this is when they finally had something to lose and it got into their heads a bit. I don't know. yeah I mean they didn't have a ton of pressure on the ball and maybe that's a sign of fatigue maybe it's a sign of just as you say focusing on their normal process and not necessarily adapting to the situation of the tie when you've got a three goal lead to defend but they didn't seem to change their approach at any point right they couldn't escape their half I mean they had one half chance in the first half which ended up being put harmlessly wide and yes it did really feel from a very early stage of the game, like it was a question of when, not if, sporting would get the three goals and perhaps even four.

39:47They nearly got four in 90 minutes to win it and wouldn't have required extra time. A word for Spurs, who get a lot of bashing. They beat Bodo Glimt home and away in the Europa League semi-final last season, which at the time was taken as a, well, you should beat them, but, you know. But also, you know, they were, I think, 2-0 down and drew with them earlier in the season, which now I think, you know, give Thomas Frank his flowers.

40:09Liam Twomey: you may beat them as well but Britta Glimp been one of the stories of the season so much fun look forward to seeing them again hopefully in this or a similar competition Arsenal will be taking on Sporting which means Jokeres will be up against his former club yeah I mean they played last season at Sporting and Arsenal won 5-1 with Jokeres playing obviously I mean it's a brilliant opportunity you've got to say for Arsenal given that they play Sporting in the quarters and then PSG, Bayern and Real are all on the other half. Yeah, so who would they get potentially in the tennis? Barca or Atletico or Newcastle or Spurs.

40:45Right. So, yeah, that's... I did think that Jokeres' replacement at Sporting, the other Luis Suarez, looks like quite a handful. He's quite physical, can manufacture something for himself out of nothing, really. A hint of Diego Costa to him, I'd say. Nice. Yeah. Nice.

41:03Liam Twomey: All right. Okay, quarterfinals will be coming up early April is that right yeah early April meantime away from the Champions League it was a busy night around the game we'll get on to some of the other things that happened next

41:36Drew Bellingham in a Champions League final with conversations sharper than an Arsenal set piece for fine margins, fun debates and full-blooded tackles football weekly. Listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube. Reddit is where people go for real human advice. When you advertise on Reddit, your brand shows up alongside the most trusted recommendations on the internet. It's authentic, brand safe and highly effective across your entire funnel. Ready to show up where people trust what they read? New advertisers, spend$500 and get$500 in ad credit. Terms apply. Start your test today at business.reddit.com slash podcasts.

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43:17You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show.

43:29Liam Twomey: Mid-game, Jay. You're sat there watching Man City taking on Real Madrid when you get a notification. Notification. One notification. Many notifications. CAF, the Confederation of African Football, they decided two months on to reverse the result of the Cup of Nations final. Senegal, who had won in that dramatic game, which you were witness to there in Morocco, against the host nation 1-0. stripped now of their title and Morocco become the champions. Crikey. So this comes about because Morocco appealed. Senegal had left the field of play in protest at the penalty being awarded against them. 17 minutes later, I think they came back on and Brahim Dias decided it was Penenka time and the rest is, well, history.

44:19Liam Twomey: So why has it taken so long? That I don't know the answer to, but to just start off, it's the CAF appeal board who've made this decision. So when I was speaking to people last night, and this is where it gets a little bit confusing, they were saying that the CAFA Peelboard is sort of an independent body. So they've come to this conclusion that Senegal violated articles 82 and 84 of the CAFA rulebook. Right, which they did. Which they did. I went back and had a look and they very clearly did do that. But I guess it's the responsibility of the referee at the time to impose those rules, right? Although I'm going to guess you were there at the stadium that night.

44:57Liam Twomey: And it was quite a charged atmosphere. Had the game, had they been disqualified then and there? Might that have been a security question? That game was probably the wildest experience I've ever had at a football game. And I thought it should have been abandoned, postponed, because of what was happening in the crowd with the Senegalese fans and riot police jumping in, etc. It didn't feel like a safe environment. And I think if Brahim had scored, it would have kicked off all over again. But actually, because Brahim missed, the Senegalese fans who were still there sort of thought, well, actually, we might have a chance of winning this now.

45:34And sort of some of the tension in the air dissipated. You're completely right. It was a, you know, a referee should never be put in that situation. It was absolutely crazy where one team's walking off. You've got the Moroccan bench up in arms. I think the problem is there was this conspiracy throughout the tournament that Morocco were going to win in any circumstances. There were dodgy refereeing decisions when they beat Cameroon in the quarterfinal. Brian Mbumo should have had a penalty. I think Bilal El Canoos is already on a yellow card. He tackles someone from behind. He somehow escapes with a yellow, immediately gets subbed off.

46:11I think Adam Messina elbows Carletta a young. if it's one of those instances you sort of raise your eyebrows when it's happening time after time you can't help but be a little bit suspicious after the semi-final when Nigeria lost Bright Asay Samuel came out and I think he called the refereeing appalling like really strong words and then obviously Senegal had that goal disallowed in the final just before the penalty so every time I speak to people about what Senegal did it's so important to contextualise that it was happening throughout the tournament it was a reaction to everything that had happened it wasn't just that one moment of Brahim winning that penalty It was this sense of injustice and, you know, Senegal, Nigeria and Cameroon are all West African teams.

46:49So there's also this sort of underlying tension between the North African country, Morocco being, you know, basically getting this sort of sporting advantage and it's happening over West African teams every time. Morocco have a lot of political sway within the Confederation of African Football because they host a lot of the tournaments. They're obviously hosting or co-hosting the World Cup in 2030. so there's this sense that Morocco have basically the all-powerful body within the African world of football and they've just kicked up enough of a fuss that Kath has said, oh, we should probably overturn the decision.

47:24Is anyone actually ever going to believe that Morocco won the tournament? Me personally, I was there. No, this decision's come 57 days after the final. People have moved on from it. The Senegal players are all posting stuff on Instagram and Twitter, laughing, calling the Morocco crybabies, saying, come and get my medal. is there going to be another trophy parade

47:43Liam Twomey: the Senegal also said they're going to go to the Court of Armitration for Sport exactly yeah they said there's a CAF Executive Committee meeting on the 29th of March it's going to be World War 3 we kind of already have one of those maybe 4 is available but get in line I would say Senegal on that I was curious though that the CAF Appeals Board also decided to reverse the penalties imposed on the ball boys who not just the ball boys Ishmael Saibari as well so the Moroccan player who had started the game came off and he was involved in that interaction with the Senegalese goalkeepers and the Tao and his um suspension's been reduced I think to two games with one of them suspended right I think it was a hundred thousand dollar fine that's been removed and should also point out that it's a really bad look for Kafe but we shouldn't be surprised because I can't remember if it was at the end of February or earlier in March, they postponed the women's AFCON with two weeks notice.

48:44So in the space of a month, your two premier competitions have had a massive sort of scandal, postponing the women's tournament and reversing the winner of the men's final. And in the future, AFCON is going to revert to a four-year cycle. And I was there when the CAF president, Patrice Mosepe, was talking about one of the reasons for this is because it will basically help to grow the brand of the competition. it's not competing in the middle of a Premier League or European season and it's easier for...

49:11Liam Twomey: So they're going to go back to, they're going to do summer again. They're going to a four-year cycle. That's another question for another day because, you know, the African continent, we can say we can hold it in a European summer, but it's very, very different. But for me, sponsors, brands, if you're constantly doing this with your two tournaments, what credibility do you have? What brands and sponsors are going to want to be associated when the timing of the tournament is constantly changing, the winner of the tournament is constantly changing so I think it's a real real sad outcome that this is what happened and to sort of bring it full circle Morocco continued playing that game they had another half an hour they had a penalty where they could have won so sort of throwing your toys out of the prime after the fact for me that doesn't quite wash Fair enough Che also on Tuesday welcome back Eduardo Bove the young Roman who collapsed with a cardiac arrest while playing for Fiorentina against Inter last season.

50:11Liam Twomey: 506 days later, he scored for his new club Watford against Wrexham in a big 3-1 win for the Hornets as they battled to reach the playoff places. Well done to him. Lovely to see him back. Young man playing the game again. Ashley Cole, in kind of Italian football-related, well, not very much Italian football-related news, He made his debut as a manager. You probably had seen the story, Charlie, had you? Go on. Do you know where he is? No. So Ashley Cole was appointed this weekend for his first managerial role in the Italian second division at Cesena. They had their first game under Cole's tutelage Tuesday night at Mantovar, and they lost Trino.

50:57Liam Twomey: But that's not really his. No. That's not really his thing. He's only just turned up. I hope that goes well for him. I feel like Cole's had a, you know... A raw deal? Well, I just think he's had quite a redemption story reputationally. You know, I think he was miscast as this, you know, obviously the whole moving to Chelsea and the ill-chosen comments in his autobiography about, you know, swerving off the road and all of that. But I always think he comes across really well in an interview. And I think he just didn't... He hated the kind of media attention and scrutiny on him. he's definitely been eyeing a career as a number one coach for a long time as well and he's he's more than paid his dues you know working with lampard and and others so yeah he deserves the opportunity we'll see what he makes of it excellent we had just on the first point oh yeah the is it boveh boveh pronounced like that yeah so um just linking it to tennis as you introduce me at the start flavio caballi who's one of the best tennis players in the world italian very close to Bovo because Caballi came through the Roma Academy.

51:57He actually played with Calafiori and he knows a lot of those players. He was very close with him and I think was really really upset when that collapse happened. So yeah I remember talking to him about it and yeah that's a really heartwarming

52:10Liam Twomey: story. Certainly is. Monday meanwhile brought Premier League match day 30 to a close. Brentford 2-0 up against Wolves but conceding twice to end up sharing the points. Who here can tell us about Brentford? Go on then. Not you, James Harris. Well, should we talk about Wolves, actually? They've only lost one of their last six Premier League matches. Incredible job from Rob Edwards. Yeah, I know a lot of people are looking upon this with amusement, given that it's a little bit too late. I mean, if they'd started this two months earlier, we might be having a very interesting conversation about their survival chances.

52:50But I actually think they're building good habits for next season. You see a lot of relegated teams that are in Wolves' situation. They just kind of wallow in their own misery right to the end of the season. And there isn't really an obvious sense that they're planning for what comes next. It's just the sort of feeling sorry for themselves at every level and maybe preparing to sack their coach. Whereas, I mean, Rob Edwards looks like he's done enough to definitely take them into the championship and maybe lead them straight back up. It wouldn't shock me if they start next season better than the other two teams that end up going down because they've actually been building a new identity as a team.

53:34Liam Twomey: Excellent. Although the first goal did come after what looked like a clear infraction when Jose Sarr essentially picked up a back pass from one of his own players. Another moment we look forward to in Mic'd Up in a week or two. Have you been watching Mic'd Up? It's more the clips that tend to go viral from that show. Brentford, though, had the chance to go only two points off fifth. Only two points off the Champions League places, but that's football then, eh? I worry they've slowed down a little bit in the last month because they've lost to Brighton. they did beat Burnley but it was that dramatic game where they were lucky to to get away with a win in that Drew with Bournemouth lost last week to West Ham in the FA Cup and then obviously Drew against Wolves and I think internally at Brentford they sort of talk about what are our long term goals and from what I understand it's either getting into Europe at some point or reaching a cup final and part of me thought what an amazing achievement if they do both in the same season and now after the draw of Wolves I'm slightly worried that they won't accomplish either.

54:48Liam Twomey: Wow. They are seventh so in line for some European competition. And you know what? I know I've just given the doom and gloom speech but let me take it all back because no one expected Brentford to finish in the top half of the table at the beginning of the season. Igor Thiago has been an incredible story. His background, I can't remember if I've mentioned it on here before but I think his father passed away when he was quite young so he had to work as a rubbish collector. He worked in a local supermarket, sort of taking people's groceries out to the car when he was a really young age. And, you know, he took a very unorthodox route to the Premier League.

55:22You know, he spent time in, I think it was Bulgaria and Belgium. He then obviously had that really bad knee injury in his first season at Brentford. So to be on 19 Premier League goals, already the best campaign by a Brazilian in Premier League history. Yeah, which is in itself pretty cool. To get called up to the Brazil squad for the first time. it's a remarkable story and you know when you talk about player of the season contenders I think he deserves to be in the conversation especially because I know Haaland has scored more goals but Haaland's form has completely dropped off in 2026 whereas Thiago has still been consistently banging in the goals so what a remarkable story and he signed and one final and he signed a new contract recently so if there's interest in him in the summer Brentford are going to get paid handsomely as they always seem to do

56:10Liam Twomey: Outstanding thank you so much Jay I'm sure you've got lots of things to do in the post-Afcon decision fallout Charlie you've got tennis to go and talk about very much so and Liam no doubt nothing going on nothing going on okay alright excellent listen thank you for your time we will have another Totally Football Show for you tomorrow looking at Wednesday's events and of course looking forward to the weekend's action but for now from Charlie Jay Liam who have we got We've got Grayson and producer Charlie in the booth and guest producer Jesse remotely. That's everybody from all of us here. It's goodbye.

56:49You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

57:15The Athletic FC

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