Chelsea power past Barca while City + Newcastle come undone

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30versus the Real Madrid dressing room. It's the Totally Football Show.

0:43Wednesday, 26th of November. It's a brand new Totally for you, listener. One that features here at Totally HQ, JJ Ball. Hello. Hi, JJ. Nice to see you. You too. And joining us from, you know, diverse bits, Dungan Alexander. Hello. I'm thinking Wickham. Well, no I'm thinking of Wickham But I'm in South East London Oh, of course you are Of course you are The Wickham diaspora Seb Stafford-Bloor is in Hamburg Sure am Good morning Jimbo Good morning to you Seb Excellent Hey JJ We're not far away from 6th of December Yeah, it's quite close It's a lot closer than I realised What's happening on the 6th of December?

1:24I'm playing a gig at Moth Club in London The famous Moth Club in Hackney It's a big room there are tickets left I've sold a lot more than I thought I was going to well how many what's the capacity 300 woo yeah I think I might shift quite a lot of them the rest of this last two weeks so if you want to come please buy tickets they're on Dice you can buy it on an app called Dice Moth Club 6th of December will you be debuting any new numbers JJ I could do I'm going to make one up on the spot I think so I might do that there's a few things I might do I'm trying to work it out that's quite flash isn't it not going to do any prep just turn up an AC account well I've done a lot of prep to be clear.

2:00Ah, okay. I do a lot of rehearsals, but I like to make one up in the sports. That's what the live streams that I do are. I make all the songs up. So maybe I'll do that live and see if people like it. Excellent. Would you make one up about Esteval? Because they need one. I don't know if you heard. Esteval, there was a lot of singing for him at Stamford Bridge on Tuesday, but not sure about what they've gone with there. It's something about Steve-O, isn't it? No, it's That's the Way I Like It, if you think that Esteval sounds like that's the way. Esteval, uh-huh. I like it. Which, you know, There's nothing wrong with that message, and it's a catchy tune.

2:32Anyhoo, Duncan, what are you singing at the moment? Well, I'm now singing that because I just heard it. I think that's slightly harsh on Chelsea fans. I've definitely heard worse tunes from football fans, including Chelsea fans. Including Chelsea fans, yeah. All right. All right. Well, perhaps we'll have a chance to chat about that in the course of today's show, but it's big Champions League focus, of course, after Tuesday's nine games. Chelsea won the big one with Barcelona 3-0. They had another two goals disallowed. It was a very one-sided affair. Things didn't go so well for the other two Premier League sides in action, though.

3:07Newcastle got beaten 2-1 away at Marseille. Man City were 2-0 losers at home to Bayer Leverkusen. Elsewhere, there were wins for Dortmund at home to Villarreal, 4-0. And Union Saint-Gilois away at Galatasaray, 1-0. That's Galatasaray's first home defeat in 15 months. there were wins for the two Italian sides Juve who came from a goal down to win 3-2 up in the Arctic Circle at Bodo Glimt and Napoli who beat Carabaug 2-0 who scored one set up the other JJ that's going to have to be Mr Scott McTominay Ballon d 'Or how many players have got two songs by you in their in their kind of there's a few because some of them don't work the first time and I know they need something better and I've got another one with him in mind I've written it in my head I haven't done it yet but I might do that one live Give it to us now.

3:55On the gig. No, I'm going to wait until... I might try to do that one night. Give it to us now, JJ. No! I like the guitar one. I mean, I love the original, but now the guitar one's got me. Okay, that's good. Check out JJ's YouTube channel to find out what I'm talking about. Or maybe guest producer Jetta will play it at the end of the show. I don't know. Anyway, back to Tuesday's results because Jose Mourinho's Benfica got their first victory by beating the one team that's been doing worse than them, Ajax, 2-0 in Amsterdam. A screamer from Samuel Dahl to open the scoring. Daniel Storey posting.

4:27Dahl has scored against a side managed by Grimm. It's the stuff of fairy tales. Lovely. Only one game finished level. That was Slavia Prague's goalless draw with Athletic Club de Bilbao. We've got big games on the way on Wednesday, including Arsenal up against Bayern Munich, Atletico Madrid against Inter, PSG Spurs, Liverpool PSV, and also Real Madrid at Olympiacos. A lot of buzz around Real Madrid right now. Whispers, or possibly louder than that, of a split between senior players and Xavi Alonso. And even word that his position might be called into question. It sounds crazy, but we've got Mario Cortegana joining us later on in the show just to give us what we're hearing.

5:13Anyway, let's begin with happier talk and Chelsea's 3-0 win over Barcelona. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

5:49Wow. Esteval with Chelsea's second goal of three in what was an even more emphatic win than that scoreline suggests. Not only scoring pretty much at will, I mean, the linesman's flag was their biggest opponent, but also stopping the Catalans from scoring for the first time in their last 53 matches. Pretty remarkable. Mocking chance of, are you Tottenham in disguise and can we play you every week? from the fans at Stamford Bridge. What did you make of it, Duncan? I thought it was a thoroughly entertaining Champions League game. It kind of like, I think it went how everyone expected it might do with Barcelona's commitment to this extremely high line.

6:34Enzo Morescu had obviously factored that in and put as many fast players from his squad into his team. And it was kind of, I mean, Ferran Torres missed a really good chance after about six minutes which went somehow wide of the post but that was pretty much all Barcelona did I mean Ronald Arau was sent off towards the end of the second half for a definite second yellow he took out the very impressive Mark Cucurella but yeah I mean Chelsea as you say he had three goals this allowed well four if you if you count delapsed it was then reinstated so it could have been a lot lot worse and I think this was a real sort of coming of age performance for this Chelsea squad I mean which sounds silly because they're the club world champions but you know they have kind of flattered a few times they have been missing Cole Palmer I mean Esteval was was really good I mean he picked up the ball so many times and just you know that it's easy to make that contrast with Laminia Mahal but you know he Esteval looked like the the coming star in this game um and Barcelona I mean they they're good team but they did their insistence on playing this way it's it's just not really working means the last game is Bruges was the same story really and they do that on 33 and it's I mean I think that they're obviously not likely to finish in the top eight now but there's a slight chance of the Karen like this they're not even going to finish in the top 24 although obviously their fixes remaining fixes are relatively kind but yeah it was a really good night for Chelsea and sets up their game this weekend very nicely.

8:11Indeed so. Andrew Turner writes in to say that on Sunday's pod, someone described Chelsea as having a mid-table back four with a dodgy goalkeeper. Says Andrew, what does this young Chelsea team need to achieve after winning two trophies to be respected? Do you want to give them respect, JJ? What did you make of them on Tuesday? I thought they were excellent. And I think the tactical stuff that Mureska did seems quite obvious. It's exactly what Duncan was saying. So you have three fast players ready to go in behind whenever you can And they can get in behind But it was the energy and intensity and aggression that you saw throughout them Barcelona couldn't deal with it The press was really good They were snapping onto them straight away They were going man-to-man It was one of those hybrid pressing things So they wait until the ball goes wide and the full-back jumps up They're all man-to-man They can't get out But everything was just energetic, aggressive I think Kukurea was the best player in the park I thought he was amazing The one La Mazea graduate who did have a good evening Yeah, because I think the thing with Kukare is he's the kind of player that every team would want to have in their side.

9:10He's horrible to play against, like really nasty. He's a bit of a weasel as well. We'll win little fouls that aren't there, but end-to-end, constantly there. His touch is good. He makes right decisions. And they use him really importantly, like tactically. So he's left back, but then he's running up top as like the number nine at times. He can make them do a lot of different things. But the way he managed Luminiumal especially was really impressive. and I think after the game they had him on Amazon Prime they were talking to him and he was talking about how he was trying to show Yamal you know you try and show them one side to stop them from doing it but he had Caicedo along with him helping him to try and deal with him half the time but he was just trying to make sure that if he was going to push it onto his right foot he'd take that chance because he'd have to go past him with a real bit of skill and then he'd be able to beat him and Yamal couldn't get anything out of him so he looked like the lesser of the two him and Estevão Mostly because I'd say Kukurea just had him in his pocket Right, big pockets Kukurea There's plenty of players in there at the moment Chelsea's form has been remarkable Since the end of September They've only had one defeat That was against Sunderland And in the Champions League one draw And that was against Karabag And they've won everything else Esteval, who has now become the third teenager ever To score in his first three Champions League games The other two being Erling Haaland and Kylian Mbappé what words do you have for him Duncan?

10:32Yeah I think the temptation now is obviously going to be to play him more I mean I suspect Maresca might not start him against Arsenal just because that's a very different kettle of fish to deal with at the weekend but I mean it feels like Chelsea have signed thousands of young talents over the last decade and a lot of them do okay some of them disappear without trace and emerge somewhere else but it really does feel like they've actually found someone here that who is on the track to be a world star. And he just seems to have a brilliant temperament. He wasn't overawed at all, but he also wasn't doing stupid stuff and going up blind alleys.

11:11He was constantly working as part of the team. I just think he's a very, very exciting player. It's not often these sort of players go straight to La Liga. I think it's quite unusual for someone with his profile to come straight to the Premier League. But, yeah, he looks like he's settling in well. and obviously as we mentioned at the start they do have Cole Palmer now back in training so they're only really going to get stronger from here on in which I think is interesting because someone on this pod said a couple of years ago they could finish second maybe this year is the year they actually do finish second Right, you just make a prediction one year a blind hen pecking corn Yeah, Sheffield's won the league again and again Stop clock being right twice a day Twice a decade Well, they are six points behind Arsenal in that Premier League, but with a victory this weekend, I'm guessing that would leave them a lot closer.

12:06No Cole Palmer. And they're also getting, in Cole Palmer's absence, goals from all over the place. They've now been, with substitute Liam De Lappe getting his first goal since the Club World Cup to make it 3-0. They've now had 16 different scorers, including own goals, while Palmer's been out. 16 different scorers and 13 different players providing assists. that's impressive depth yeah and you wonder where Cole Palmer actually goes back in I think the most obvious place now would be replacing Steva on the right hand side and I think exactly what Duncan's saying playing against Arsenal probably wouldn't start in there in the Premier League it's different to what you get in the Champions League so I think Mareska is managing his minutes really well it's another thing that's working with him he's managing the young players really well he got to put on a couple of young lads later on in the game as well give them a run out I think Enzo Morescu it's weird people think he's not very good and then really good and then it goes up and down but the way he's managing the squad and they snuck in to high up the league they won the Club World Cup he's doing a pretty good job with it yeah isn't he?

13:09Morescu Mata is currently pointing to high Chelsea climbing to 5th spot in the Champions League you've got games coming up on Wednesday but given that Chelsea's remaining games are Atalanta, Pafos and Napoli yeah Looking good. Napoli, final one away. Of course, Conte reunion clacks. And Arsenal, though, this Sunday, boy, what a game that's going to be. Well, we'll chat about that. Arsenal, of course, have FC Bayern this evening, as we recall, but we'll chat about that in a Thursday morning show. Next up, let's head to the Etihad and find out what on earth happened with Man City and their 2-0 defeat to Bayern Leverkusen.

13:51Ivo Maza All is Sehr gut Ist ausgezeichnet Schick Sehr gut Schick Schick was pretty much what Pep Guardiola must have been saying on the sideline as his somewhat bold selection of a Man City B team collapsed to a 2-0 defeat Wow, Seb, you were watching this for us. Bye, Leverkusen. Eric Ten Hag's looking like a pretty great manager right now, isn't he? Yeah. Hey, well, I'll tell you who he is. Kasper Hulmand. Yes. Because after the game, he spoke about what he felt was important in the performance. He talked about courage. He talked about showing our philosophy and showing our talent. I can't describe the game.

14:39I thought Leverkusen were really, really brave. I think they went there with a little bit of a carefree attitude. We talked on the European show about how Hullman has a kind of a free hit, post and hog, the expectations got reduced right down. And they just played. They just played, they made mistakes. There were some imperfections, but they've got a group of young players there who I think, really interestingly, probably their best collective performance, but it was also full of many of the best individual performances, particularly in defence, they've given all season. Like Bardet, Gerald Kwanza, Mark Fleck and the goalkeeper gave by far and away his best performance of the season.

15:14And they deserve their 2-0. If you look at both goals, really nicely constructed. Malik Tillman, who was the big summer signing, was brought in to not quite replace Florian Wirtz, but play in the position that he left and the gap that he left. He was at the heart of both goal-scoring moves, dropping into midfield, moving between the lines, doing exactly what he's in the team to do, played with real composure. And some fun bits from some of the young boys. Anas Poku, we've spoken about before. Christian Kafane played very, very well. Ibi Maza, signed from her to BSC over the summer, the young playmaker.

15:48He had a very good game. A few ropey moments, a little bit too much exuberance at times in his own half. But he did very, very well. Also, the German media was a little bit triggered by the team selection. Bill this morning called Inguardiola arrogant for making 10 changes. Inguardiola sang last night he would have made 11. if only he had the players to have done that. I feel for him. Yeah, it's scraped by. It is a result that ends City's remarkable run at home in the Champions League. 23 matches they hadn't been defeated, but this was... Well, it includes that penalty shootout reversal to Real Madrid, which a lot of people don't count.

16:36So it's good. In a way, I think for the sanity of humanity, it's good that this run has ended. It's also, Jimbo, there's another run. This was the first time that they've lost to German opposition since 2013, I think. Wow. I think that's right. I might have made that up. I'm not sure, but I saw it somewhere on the internet. So it's got to be right. Yeah, 100%. What about Pep's decision for a game that he described as like a final to make 10 changes, but he would have made 11 from the Newcastle game which to be fair they also lost. Yeah he says that it's the first time he's ever done it like swapped basically every single player and his reasoning for it I kind of understand he's got all these players that don't get games he wants to keep everyone happy because over a whole season and he's got a bigger squad this season than maybe he's had in the past he wants to give them all minutes and get them involved both so they feel happy because he knows them as people they want to be able to play but also so that they are ready to go when they need to be used and so I think that's what he has I always like to be too nice and involve everyone.

17:35I have the feeling that there are games every three or four days and there is no human being who can sustain that. I see. But was there also a suggestion that maybe he thought, lads, it's buyer? I don't know about that. I think he maybe saw something lacking in the Newcastle game and he thought, let's just give them a rest. After the international break, some of them are coming back knackered. Let's give it a fresh rejuvenation. Maybe that energy will get them through there. They're good enough to be better than that, but I don't know. It happens when you swap everyone, right? I thought they were absolutely dreadful.

18:05Even when Haaland came on. Right. So at halftime, with the scoreline already 1-0 to Bayer Leverkusen, he brings on Foden, Doko and Nico Reilly. And then Erling Haaland after that. And it didn't make any difference, Seb. No, it didn't. There were a few frantic moments. Haaland had a couple of snatches at goal. But additionally, whatever City's fatigue from the weekend, And Leverkusen came with seven teenagers on their substitutes bench. Only made one substitution. Nathan Teller coming on. And there was never really a point in which they were made to look uncomfortable. So one thing to lose. Another not to really lay a glove on them.

18:44Flecken made one very, very good save. But it was, to me, it was, I mean, it's a little bit conspiratorial. But it felt indicative of the current adjusted structure of the Champions League group stage. which is there's just not enough jeopardy for anybody to become too concerned about being a goal down at home at this point in the season. So it felt kind of indifferent is probably the word I'd use. Yeah, I think the eight game sort of schedule means that, you know, I think there's quite a lot of big games at the start and there's obviously quite a lot of important games at the end. But I think this matchday and maybe the next one are quite susceptible to this sort of rotation.

19:22and just on Guardiola, this is sort of the first time he's ever had this sort of squad at his disposal so it sounds strange to say but he's always preferred a smaller squad but I think we are sort of overlooking the one player who wasn't either in the line-up or on the bench last night was Rodri and we saw last season what a loss he is and it's perhaps less so this season but it's still a big loss but as Seb says, there's slightly more jeopardy for City now but not really Well, they're up in sixth at the moment, obviously with games to come tonight. Three matches to go. Next up for Pep's side, they travel to the Bernabeu to face Real Madrid in a fortnight.

20:02So maybe that one will mean more. Seb? Yeah, there were some concerning signs as well beyond issues with the draw and the lack of jeopardy. I mean, if you looked at that Leverkusen side when it was picked, Pocco was kind of playing as a wing-back. Kofane was right-sided, wide forward. So you see the pace there. You know what the threat's going to be, particularly on the counter-attack. You know by the construction of the midfield, Alex Garcia and Ibu Mazza at the base of the midfield in a two, that was going to be very possession-oriented. And yet that's exactly how Leverkusen managed to hurt City.

20:38There's a lot of space down that right side, which City were never really able to close down. And Leverkusen had remarkable success playing through the midfield. And no, sure, no Rodri, but I'm not sure I would describe that City side as being kind of weak. I think maybe at least nine of them, probably 10, get into the Leverkusen side, with the exception of probably Alex Grimaldo. So it was... It costs over£350 million. Yeah, and I'd be surprised if Leverkusen side, the Leverkusen side that started, cost over€200 million. So, yeah, just a very strange night. A good one, though, by Leverkusen and for the other Bundesliga side in action, Dortmund, who whomped Villarreal 4-0.

21:26Villarreal going down to 10 men in a kind of mad five-minute spell in which the captain gets sent off. Then they give away, then there's a penalty, and then they concede a couple of bizarre goals. But a great night for Dortmund. Yellow wall versus yellow submarine, as the commentator said, Seb. Yeah, it was an important night for Niko Kovac, too. He's had a few difficult weeks, dropped points late in Hamburg before the international break, gave away a very late lead against Stuttgart at the weekend. And there's some muttering about style. So to produce, you know, four goal win in the Champions League is great.

22:00Tricky night for Fabio Silva because he's not sure where it came from, but there's been some complaining from his camp, from his direction, should we say, about his lack of minutes, lack of starts in the Bundesliga or the Champions League. Hasn't started a game yet. and got a chance to kind of sort of make a little bit of a point to Kovac, but missed his penalty, hit the bar. So it kind of ended up looking a little bit silly, but also a strange argument to make, really, because quite a good player, Fabio Silva, sure. But are you going to replace Saragorasi at this point? Or Brandt or Bayer or Adeyemi?

22:40Yeah, it's a strange argument to pick. But yeah, the night did not end well for him, which is probably the only Dortmund player who could say that. OK, Adeyemi was on the score sheet with an intriguing goal. I'm not sure he gets it in the end, doesn't he? It goes off of about two or three players on its way into... It hits him last. Yeah, it definitely hits him last. Gerasi gets a brace. The fourth goal after Fabio Silva had missed his penalty was for Daniel Svensson. Also, Borussia Dortmund supporters letting Villarreal and the Spanish FA know how they felt about their abortive plan to go to Miami for a bit of a jolly with Barcelona.

23:16Yeah, not happy about this. And this is always kind of the great existential fear within German football, the idea of taking competitive football away from the country, away from the local region, and there is nothing which antagonises or scares German football fans more than this. So, inevitable. We did some reporting on this issue, and so there's a full account of this on The Athletic. Very nice. You can read, yeah. Lots of P blank, blank, blank, La Liga, P blank, blank. There are lots of blanks and redactions in that. Yeah, okay. Excellent. All right, well, also on Tuesday, Newcastle went to Olympique Marseille, took the lead but ended up beating 2-1.

23:57Why? We'll talk about that next.

24:05This is the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce Oli Kay and the very best football writers around

24:29It's Aubameyang. It's Aubameyang. It's Aubameyang. It's the best. It's Aubameyang. It's him, Aubameyang. 36 years old. A couple of minutes to electric the melodrome. It's been pleasure. Two to Marseille. It's been a tour in Versailles. The eternal Aubameyang there. 36 years of age and clocking up a quite delicious brace, actually, against the magpies. Marseille who were out of the playoff spots going into this game in the league phase of the Champions League picking up a victory having lost their last 17 games in this competition against teams from England Italy Spain or Germany so whenever they came up against a side from one of the big leagues Marseille would come up short not this time a lot of people saying because Nick Pope is that fair JJ?

25:23I don't know because you remember when Haaland went through on goal against Newcastle on the weekend. Right. And Pope comes off early. So he's got to be ready to go. So Pope comes off early. Yeah. But Aubameyang is just quicker. There's a defender with him. Malik Chow is with him. Malik Chow is trying to wave off the goalkeeper. You can kind of see him. He's like 10 yards away at a time. He is. I'm not sure he's right to do it. But you see it in slow motion. You see him turn. You see him clock where Pope is. And you just see the surprise register at the same time. But I don't mind it. Because the way Newcastle play is so intense.

25:56and they're trying to squeeze up and they go at them and they're playing such a high line that the goalkeeper has to be aware of it. So he's jumping. I don't know how to play a goalkeeper. I don't know. But to me, he's got to make a split decision and the one he's made there turns out in hindsight was wrong because the defender had it covered. Right. And also because Aubameyang pulls off an absolutely remarkable shot because the position he scores from, Duncan. Yeah, it wasn't quite as good as Mohamed Salah's. Was that against Basel a few years back when he was virtually on the goal line and managed to sort of get it in?

26:23but there's something aesthetically beautiful about a player shooting from a distance and an angle when there's no one in the net because it's kind of the purest form of like crazy golf style football in a sense, isn't it? There's the net, can you get it in? But also because it looks like it's going out for a good two-thirds of its trajectory. Yeah, it kind of curls in at the last minute. I did also think anyone who's into 14th century religious history would have enjoyed seeing Pope on his way to Avignon. so yeah fair but also Pope looked distraught I've never seen a goalkeeper realise his mistakes so overtly in his facial expression as the moves going on so yeah it was just a lovely highlight from the game 19 seconds into the second half that came Aubameyang then adding a second as the Phoenicians came back from a goal down Harvey Barnes having scored his third goal of the week just six minutes into the game Is that a fair result?

27:24Everything considered? I think so. It felt, we spoke earlier a little bit about what Manchester City were carrying from the weekend. Newcastle looked a little bit emotionally fatigued. If you look at the kind of, particularly the first goal with Nick Pope's decision, but also a really nice take from Aubameyang. It's really fun to kind of watch a forward go across his defender at the near post again. It feels sort of old fashioned. But I think like it's weird to watch Dan Byrne not register that move. Every time I looked up, I was kind of watching both games at the same time. I was seeing Marseille cut through Newcastle really, really easily and sort of really basic mistakes.

28:02I remember Sandra Tonali getting pressed in the first half and coughing up a really early chance, which you wouldn't really expect with Tonali. So everything that was good about them against City wasn't really there. And yeah, I think Marseille deserved it. It probably could have been three or four, really. The City game wasn't at St James' Park. This was on the road. Perhaps significant given that Newcastle are having big problems away from home and intriguingly, their next three champions, the remaining three league face fixtures are Leverkusen away, Seb, then home to PSV, then away at Paris Saint-Germain.

28:35Oy, oy, oy. Tricky business, yes indeed. I think one of the problems with Newcastle, talking about them being emotionally tired, I think they're also just athletically tired. So Eddie Howe said that one of the preparations they were doing before the Man City game was trying to get their athleticism back in training. Don't know quite how you do that other than resting, but making them run a lot, I suppose. And so because the way they play is so front foot, so intense, I think a lot of these players, it's very hard to get emotionally ready for games every three days. How do you put everything into it every single time?

29:05And this is the problem I think they come up against. So when they try and use energy and intensity, then that doesn't work. It's very easy for teams who are a bit more controlled to get at them. And that's one of the big problems that they're coming across, I think, quite often. Okay. They're at Everton on Saturday, which could be another intense affair. Well, having touched on Tuesday night's news from the Champions League, let's move on to what else has been happening this week. Next.

29:36Dewsbury Hall. And still. And still! Oh, it's fantastic! Brilliant goal. The ten men strike at Old Trafford. Kiernan Dewsbury Hall against the odds for Everton Kiernan Dewsbury Hall there with the only goal of Monday night's clash between Man United and Everton a historic game not only was it David Moyes' first ever Premier League win at Old Trafford as a visiting manager and also I think his first ever away win against a big six team certainly felt like it oh he won at Arsenal a rare then That seems like a dodgy stat to me. A rare David Moyes win against a top six Premier League side away. Yeah, but it was definitely Everton's first win at Old Trafford since 2013, when, of course, David Moyes was Man United manager.

30:31Anyway, they claimed their third ever win in the Premier League era at Old Trafford, and they did it despite only having 10 men for 77 minutes. Why? a rarely spotted but always sort of welcome uh intra-team fight so is this a gay slaps michael keen who'd be he gets shoved by michael keen and his response is to throw an arm and which catches him full on the the face this was all the fallout from a big man united chance yeah i mean they were obviously arguing about you know responsibilities and defending i mean compared to some of the other incidents we've seen like this i think it was incredibly mild and i think it was definitely 50 50 and i know that obviously gay slapping the face is the thing that triggers the the red card but i mean i don't think i don't think it was really worthy of a red card it seemed a little bit a little bit too much but i mean the funny thing is obviously you know everyone at that point thought well here we go an easy win for manchester united but i think it it really galvanised Everton.

31:37They suddenly, it felt like they had 11 players and United had 10 for most of the first half, thanks to Rumi Amarim deciding to not change his formation in the slightest. So United's spare man was handily just hanging around at the back for quite a while. It's the first time Man United have ever lost a Premier League game at Old Trafford in which the opposition had a player sent off. That's the stat that you needed. Everton Can I test Duncan's statistical knowledge, please? I've always wanted to do this live. um duncan when was the last time everton won away having had a man sent off that's a good question i don't know if the top of my head opposition ground please i don't know and i'll help you because when when i found out the answer to this i uh responded with a deep uh sad sigh oh doesn't it kind of doesn't sound like you no what what is it give us a hint then come on well I mean it made me sigh deeply and sadly oh I see was it against Tottenham Hotspur did they beat England it was yes oh right yes exactly yeah Tottenham Hotspur Spurs 2006 isn't quite as good an anecdote as I thought it would be oh no no I love that anyway what about in my mind it was hilarious Duncan was going to fight back show and show like his what about Everton who seemed to be kind of run out of momentum for a large part of the season and now level on points with Man United and Liverpool.

33:07Yeah, I think it's a really big moment for Everton. I think, you know, we forget that for Everton fans winning away in Manchester United is not quite as big as it probably is for Liverpool, but it's still pretty big. And I thought their fans, you could hear them throughout the game. They've obviously settled in pretty well to the new stadium, but the away form has been slightly lacking. So, yeah, I think the fact that this result took them above Liverpool on goal difference is pleasant for Everton fans. But I think David Moyes has got a history of getting them in and around the top six in his previous spell.

33:43And we know how congested the Premier League is this season. I think, as you said, they've got Newcastle at home this weekend. I think they've got a reasonable chance of pushing into the top half, which given the turmoil and given the fact that teams do often struggle in their first season at a new ground, would be a great return. Man United, meanwhile, in 10th spot. See their unbeaten streak under Ruben Amirim come to an end and they've got Crystal Palace away at the weekend. Oof. All right. Talk about that, of course, in Thursday's show. Also this week, though, you had in the Championship the top two facing off.

34:20That's Middlesbrough under interim management after the departure of Rob Edwards. and they took on Coventry, coached by Frank Lampard. Frank Lampard's Sky Blues were 4-2 winners, which means they are now 10 points clear at the top of the championship with a goal difference of plus 30. Woof. Haven't been in the Premier League since 2001. Has Frank Lampard actually evolved as a head coach or is this just a situational thing? I'm genuinely asking. You're asking the wrong man, unless Duncan or JJ can offer anything on that. I think Frank Lampard is a better manager than people give him credit for I think in the Championship he's a very good manager I think perhaps in the Premier League he's maybe not elite but I think the Coventry are the perfect club for him to go in you know big club a long starved of you know success have been down as far as League two and since they were in the Premier League you know he obviously brought a lot of momentum to them last season and they lost in the playoffs pretty unluckily against Sunderland they've started like an absolute train this season they didn't really sign many players in the summer but they you know they're clearly the best team in the championship the only kind of concern I'd say is that EFL seasons are horrendously long and we've seen a lot of teams start like this and slowly fade but you know it's whether they they add players in the in the in the January window or not but I mean I think if you want a sign of nature healing then Coventry back in the Premier League is uh is definitely one of them.

35:49We all want those. Oh, what else this week? Cristiano Ronaldo news. Cristiano Ronaldo, who was shown a straight red card for Portugal against the Republic of Ireland in the last international break, was thus suspended for their final qualifier against Armenia, which they scored nine goals in anyway. So, yeah. But so much conjecture about how many games he'd be banned for at the World Cup. Straight red card. That's got to be the first two group games, no? No. because FIFA announced that the final two games of his suspension will be themselves suspended. He'd be given instead a one-year probation period, so as long as he doesn't get another, I'm guessing, red card in that period, they will then disappear.

36:33I don't have the memory of you guys, but have FIFA ever pulled a stunt like this before? Not that I can remember. No, no, it's fairly unprecedented. But there's that very ambiguous, vague article they have in their constitution, which describes exceptional circumstances and being able to kind of make parts of bands suspended based on nebulous issues. I think they reasoned this away as being because Cristiano Ronaldo had never received an international red card before and had nothing at all to do with visiting the White House and Donald Trump, I guess. Wow. didn't employ it for David Beckham in 1998 but you know swings and roundabouts Cristiano Ronaldo who elbowed who was it he elbowed?

37:19quite viciously in the face but Darroche Darroche there you go anyway that's that lastly today we're going to look ahead to Wednesday night's Champions League action and particularly get a little word on what on earth is going on at Real Madrid

37:42You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Wednesday night among your Champions League treats is Olympiacos hosting Real Madrid. Real Madrid have of course lost their most recent Champions League outing. 1-0 at Anfield, they lost to Liverpool. have drawn their subsequent two matches in La Liga. And amidst all of this, the build-up has been dominated by reports that the club's biggest star, the one that they boycotted the Ballon d 'Or ceremony for, Vinny Jr., letting the club know that his relationship with the manager is at an end.

38:27The Athletic's Mario Cotegana reporting on Monday that Vinny had said to Real Madrid he didn't want to renew his contract while his relationship with Xavi was so strange. strange. Xavi Alonso, of course, this follows reports in the Athletic and indeed the Spanish press that the manager Xavi Alonso has issues with quite a few of the Madrileño stars. Wow, how serious is all of this? What could it all mean? We're joined now by Mario Cortegana.

38:59Mario, thank you so much for being with us. Hello, it's a pleasure to you and you. What exactly is the issue with Vinny and what are the chances of getting it smoothed over? Well, we should go back to the Club World Cup. Before the semifinals against PSG, Xavi Alonso had planned to bench Benicio Jr. Trent Alexander-Arnold's injury prevented that to happen, but Benicius Jr. was aware of his coach plan. So the feeling almost since the beginning was not good between Xavi Alonso and Benicius Jr. And now you just have to take a look to the statistics. Benicius Jr. has been benched in this first month of the season four times.

39:54something really unusual for Benetius and for any big star in the world of football. He has just completed five out of 17 matches this season. So this is not something that obviously is pleasing Benetius Jr. It was a key moment. We revealed that the Athletic in which President Florentino Perez and Benetius Jr. spoke about the situation, about the renewal after El Clasico. Vinny went to apologize because of his reaction after being accepted in El Clasico. Florentino brought the topic about his renewal and Vinicius told the president that he was feeling like extending under current scenario wasn't the best for him.

40:51All right, that's slightly less emphatic. However, his behaviour at the Clasico, where he leaves the field shouting me five times and always me, I'm leaving the team, it's better if I leave, I'm leaving, and then does make an apology to everybody in which he mentions, I think, everyone who works for the club except for Xavi Alonso did seem to point to a pretty fractured relationship. There are a lot of stories that Vinicius is not the only one unhappy with Xavi Alonso. As many as, what, six or seven of the senior players have problems? It's not just Vinicius Jr. There are more players, some of them really important in the dressing room and for the Real Madrid project that are not happy with Alonso, both because of his approaching to them and also because of some of his footballing ideas.

41:43OK, so it's about the discipline, but it's also about the tactics. Yeah, it's a mix between these two factors. OK, so Real Madrid, with all of this, are still top in La Liga, admittedly only one point ahead of Barcelona. The last three games haven't been great, the defeat to Liverpool, and then the two draws in La Liga. Is that why these stories are coming out now, or do you think it's more the other way around, that we're beginning to see the problems in the dressing room play out on the field as well. This is curious because it depends on what you read. I have to say that we at The Athletic reported first about this internal tension just two or three days after El Clásico, which was maybe the best moment of the season for Real Madrid.

42:30We reported in detail about the Xavi Alonso revolution at Real Madrid and how some of these changes have not went well for some of the Real Madrid stars. But in Spanish media, this has become even bigger because after the bad results, most of the Spanish media have started to report about these issues in the dressing room. But the problems were there, even when Real Madrid were in a better situation than the current one. Okay. It'll be interesting to see how things play out this evening as we record there in Perez against Olympiacos. With your experience of how things work when there are problems between the players and the manager at Real Madrid, what do you think is going to happen?

43:22It's really difficult to know, but Real Madrid have been sending messages to main media in Spanish, like trying to back Alonso after all the information were going in the opposite direction. So they are trying to lower the pressure on the coach. But, you know, this is Real Madrid and three matches and potentially four matches without a win. It's very damaging for any coach, including Xavi Alonso. Most of the people at the club are speaking about the match against Manchester City in the Champions League in December, December 10th. And I think no major decision could take place before that match.

44:15But let's see. Again, if Real Madrid don't win tonight, this would mean four games in a row without winning. And this would increase even more the pressure. So when you say major decision, Mario, what are the options? They're not seriously considering making a change on the bench. Are they ready? Or would it be a sidelining Vinny? We are not at this point, but there are information. and some of them coming from, we could say, from the club in Spain. And there is something in the atmosphere that Alonso could be sacked at some point if he doesn't get good results in the next one, two or three matches.

45:02Let's see. I think that we are not at this point, but the situation is far from ideal. extraordinary Mario thank you so much for being with us today enjoy the game this evening there in Perez thank you thanks a lot my pleasure

45:20wow Mario Cortagana a story to keep up with when it first came out a lot of people were going well this is just clickbait etc just people trying to hype up rumours and stuff but I'm quite stunned by some of those developments Seb when Xavi Alonso was at Bayer Leverkusen were there any signs of him sparking unrest? Quite the reverse. A lot of the players spoke in a very complimentary way about how good he was at communicating with them, how close they all were, but also if an individual player needed to be doing something to either get into the team or something as part of the team function, how well and how clearly he would be able to explain that.

46:02But then, not such a surprise because I think part of being Real Madrid head coach is just ego management, whereas at Bayer Leverkusen you had a lot of players at a different stage of their career hadn't achieved as much who were all sort of pointing in the same direction there was a kind of common agenda at the club and yeah very different environment but no nothing like this no sense of him falling out with players even the players that weren't getting game time there was never any sense of discontent Alright well we'll see what happens on Wednesday night because a big win away at Olympiacos will no doubt settle some of these stories but were that game to go differently I guess that you know fuel, fire all that stuff Well yeah they've lost one drawn two in the last three games which is unacceptable for Real Madrid manager can't lose any ever or draw but I think the thing that we maybe thought would happen at the start of the season with Alonso putting in quite strict positional play and you've got to be here and this is where you go and he's I don't think he was even starting Vinicius at the start of the season he's swapped his 11 around quite a lot I mean quite tactically flexible it's not really what Real Madrid have been used to I quite like There's loads of stories That have coincided In this last week With how players What they used to do Is they'd play a game Then they'd go to Paris For the weekend And have a jolly For a couple of days Go back training With a cocktail in hand And it'd be fine I like The timing of that Is fantastic And I think I think they should be Allowed to do that If anything Vinicius Junior Once he's scored a hat-trick If he wants to come back On the Monday morning Cocktail in hand A little What do you call it Umbrella in the juice Perhaps an olive on a stick Yeah I think that's fine excellent if they deliver yeah you've got to deliver you've got to deliver and then who cares about deliver yeah alright Duncan nice thank you Duncan anything you want to add on this or should we just park this and see what Real Madrid actually do in Perares I think let's just see what they do but I mean you have to be a vibes man to manage Real Madrid don't you I thought he was I thought he was no Alonso's quite intense isn't he I think yeah we'll see but it is it's a fascinating thing I mean it you know it's the drama we all love so bring it on bring it excellent we return on Thursday morning with a brand new Totally Football show looking at what happens in that game and all the other Wednesday night matches and also of course to that big big big big big weekend in the Premier League excellent JJ I'll see you on the 6th of December if not before yes excellent thank you alright right?

48:35Fantastic. And you'll be playing tunes like this. Hey, Cheryl. Hi, George. What's the news? Well, didn't you hear? Scobby Tommanay. Scobby Tommanay is free.

48:56And Seb, we'll have the pleasure of your company next Monday stroke Tuesday for a Euro show. Looking forward to it. Excellent. And Duncan, you're here with us for that aforementioned Thursday Pro. Yeah, can't wait. Me too. All right, listener, do join us if you have a chance on Thursday or after. For now, from all of us here, it's a big fat goodbye.

49:21You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.