England and Spain meet in yet another final + the latest on Ekitike, Isak & Gyökeres

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1:39The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

1:49Totally Football Show today with the latest Swiss bids from Euro 25 as we count down to another England final. Plus, transfers including Eketiki, the strike who's perfect for the modern game because he's the same going backwards as he is forwards. We recall Figo's Barcelona Real Madrid move and the pig-headed reaction. And we find out who is in the InterTotally final 2025. It's the Totally Football Show.

2:21Unbelievable, unbelievable this. Thursday, the 24th of July. Listener, special edition of the Tony Football Show. I know what you're saying. They're all special and you're right. But this one is kind of unusually global. I, for example, am in Beijing at the moment for tax purposes. Tom Williams, where are you? Very excitingly, James. I'm in Finsbury Park, North London. There you go. Tick that box. Doesn't get more glamorous than that. No. Michael, you've got Switzerland covered for us, haven't you? Yep, I'm back in Zurich. Nice. And you've been at both semis this week. I have, yes. Yeah, nice.

3:00And we're joined by Matt Davis-Adams. Matt, welcome back. Thanks, James. Yeah, all the way from Barxton-LeVale, population 211. So not quite bringing the same big city energy, but... Well, it's a microcosm, isn't it? They often say of whatever that place you just said was. And well, lovely to see you. You've been on holiday. I have, yes. A week in France last week was well-timed and much enjoyed. back to the football, which is just not stopped. No. And what special football it's been this week. Tom, I've also got a note that you went to see Oasis in Manchester last week. Anything you'd care to tell us about that?

3:37It was really good. Yeah, would recommend it. Very enjoyable. Okay. Okay, I'll get myself a ticket then, Tom. Yeah, good idea. Yeah. If you're in Manchester and you fancy going along, why not stop by? There you go. Check it out. Absolutely. Tom's nervous, of course, because he's got that big semi-final later on today, taking on Julian Laurent in that Franco-Cambrian clash. To be honest, listen, we actually recorded that yesterday, so he and I know what happened. No spoilers here. You will do too, listener, if you stick around to the end of the show. We're going to begin with Euro 25. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

4:23They're going to send an inter-rific ball. Doggy was fills it. Adjumang!

4:34That will do for England. The extraordinary Michel Adjumang there with some extraordinary Seb Hutchison to accompany it as England put their way to yet another final. Are England the most consistent team in kind of world football now. The last six men's, women's and under-21 European championships, England have reached the final in each one of them. It's mental. Yeah, it's extremely impressive, isn't it? I mean, put a couple more Ws next to those finals and it would be even more so. But yeah, hopefully one more to come on Sunday. Well, perhaps against the nation, Spain, who denied the Lionesses, of course, of the 2023 World Cup finals.

5:17But we shall see. In terms of the women's team, who are extraordinarily consistent, third major final in a row, is there anything in particular, do you think, behind their kind of hegemony, the hergemony? Yeah, I mean, they've been consistent over the last three tournaments. What they haven't been is particularly consistent within this tournament. I mean, there's been some real ups and downs. They were, I think, soundly beaten in the first game against France, really quite bad and under the cosh for long periods against Sweden. And then the Italy game, I must say, I don't think Italy played that well themselves, but England obviously were seconds away from going out.

5:50So I think the one thing they have got compared to maybe every other side, with the exception of Spain, is that they've got greater strength and depth. I mean, they can bring on wingers and forwards that are pretty much the same quality as the starters. and we're kind of used to the five sub era now but it's only been five years that we've been used to this and i just i don't think england would have would have won the last tournament and got so far in this tournament had it not been for the fourth and fifth changes it seems so often that other nations are down to kind of okay players and england are bringing on players who can completely make the difference and uh you know michelle as you man being the the best example probably the the biggest surprise inclusion in the squad although I think there was a lot of clamour for her to be included after a good substitute performance earlier in the year but I mean she's she's only been given five and ten minutes in matches and she's almost the most decisive player it's quite extraordinary really I mean strong echoes of Gareth Southgate's England particularly at Euro 2024 in that England haven't always been particularly convincing in this tournament have often seemed to be on the verge of going out and have managed to hang in there in matches and often make the difference off the bench I mean each of the last two games against Sweden in the quarters against Italy in the semi-finals it's been Chloe Kelly and Michelle Agjeman coming on who've scored the goals and turned things around you go back to Euro 2022 and it was Ella Toon and Alessio Russo coming off the bench so that's very much part of the DNA of this team under Serena Viegman that they have this capacity to hang in there in matches and you know when they need to take players off the bench to make the difference and again going back to the men's Euros under Gareth Southgate it was players like Ollie Watkins, Cole Palmer stepping up and again I think it speaks to the advantages that England get from the strength of the women's Super League the fact that you've got all these top English players playing at the top clubs in a competitive championship going deep in the Champions League and that means that when it comes to you know the business end of the major tournaments they've got players and you know they've got options when it comes to you know kind of getting over the line in the key moments.

8:10I think what Wiegmann's been able to do which maybe Gareth Southgate wasn't so good at if you want to use that as the comparison is to keep people happy with the role of being a substitute or if she thinks that that's not going to be the case. You know, we've seen Mary Earps, Millie Bright, Frank Kirby, all expected to be part of this squad and all drop out for differing reasons on kind of the eve of the tournament. And she seems to have that thing, Wiegmann, whereby, you know, you can explain to a player that their role is not going to be to start every game. And you get that decision made early on.

8:43And it's not something that lingers on throughout the tournament. Last summer, we're thinking, why isn't Anthony Gordon or Cole Palmer or whoever starting in these games and there's a bit of rancour around the squad and that's something that you would never level at this England women's team. I think it seems to be a genuine kind of togetherness and acceptance of people's roles and happy to do that. And obviously Kelly and Adjuman are the standout examples of that. But Kelly in particular, she's just won the Champions League. She would be right to think, well, I should be starting in this game.

9:11Lauren James hasn't been playing particularly well. Beth Meads may be past her best, but she's happy to come on and affect the game in the minutes that she does get rather than sort of sit-pouting on the touchline wondering why she's not starting. Sam writes in to say, thoughts on giving the calm-down celebration after missing a penalty. Interesting point. It was, however, the rebound that she put away, which took England through to the final on the subject of England's inconsistency in this tournament. Remarkably, her scoring that goal on the rebound was the first time that England had actually been in front in the knockout stages.

9:48They were behind Italy after Bonancier's goal for over an hour in this game. Looked like they were going out. When in the 95th, 96th minute, Ajermang did her Ajermang business. And then again, in the final minute of extra time, you had the penalty. Perhaps a generous one. I don't know. Eventually converted by Chloe Kelly. Wow. The Ajermang story, it is an extraordinary one. You touched on it a little bit there, Michael. The injury to Russo Cesar called up for the Nations League game against Belgium. She's only on the field for 41 seconds before she's scored in that. Yeah, I mean, she's always been regarded as a promising player.

10:31I think there's been kind of talk about her for a couple of years. But, I mean, she's still owned by Arsenal. She's been out on loan. She's really made her international breakthrough before her club breakthrough, really, which is pretty unusual. But it's a position where England didn't have many options a couple of years ago after Rachel Daly retired, which seemed like a big blow at the time. But suddenly they've got Agui Beaver-Jones, who's been, I think she's been Chelsea's top scorer for the last two seasons in the league, certainly the most recent one, who I think probably would be the one who might start if Russo was unable to start.

11:03She's the kind of backup for the starting spot. But Ajemang is seen as, you know, someone who can just come on and have an immediate impact and change the game straight away. And she's obviously scored the two goals, but even in the first game against France, England only played, England only really on top for the last five, ten minutes after she came on. Didn't score on that day, but she was the one who basically forced France back and gave England the ability to dominate. So it is funny in international tournaments, you do sometimes get these players coming from absolutely nowhere, you know, just on the fringes of the squad, and then obviously impress in training and make an instant impact.

11:38So it's quite extraordinary. I mean, she has come from nowhere. where I think six months ago she would have been a real outsider for the squad. We did a thing on The Athletic where we kind of ranked every player's prospects of getting into the squad. And we included her, but I think she was number 40 or something like that, you know, to get into a 23-player squad. So she's done brilliantly. Amazing. Three and a half years ago, a ball girl at an England game at Wembley. Yeah, and just to sort of rubber stamp that from nowhere-ness, she was on loan at Brighton, who finished fifth, but that's more or less halfway in the WSL.

12:10She only actually started three league games for them last season. So it's not like she was loaned out by Arsenal to be the starting striker for a mid-table team. She was coming off the bench and she did that in pretty much every game in fairness. But yeah, I wasn't trusted from the off, from the club that she was on loan to. And yeah, look at her now. And also, we've got to mention that outrageous effort, which would have been possibly goal of the tournament that came back off the crossbar because that was a thing of beauty. Certainly was. Certainly was. Well, there you go. So how concerned should England be about the fact that they haven't convinced, have found a way to scrap through with the subs coming on late, but getting the job done?

12:49They're up against Spain next. Spain, who beat Germany 1-0 on Wednesday night. What do you think? Well, I actually think maybe we shouldn't do too many comparisons to the men's team, but it is incredibly similar to the final last year. You know, as has been said, England have muddled their way through and Spain are just quite clearly the best team in the tournament. They are as good technically as ever, but I think they've become braver and more purposeful in possession. I think they're a much better team than when they won the World Cup. Two years ago, certainly going forward, I think they've got more drive out wide.

13:25Patry, who decided not to be part of the squad two years ago, is the best holding midfielder in the world and plays the role in a very aggressive way, pushes forward, wins the ball high, dribbles into attack. offers a goal-scoring threat. The difference is I think Spain do give the opposition chances. I mean, we saw Germany on the break yesterday. And in fact, pretty much every team they've played have had chances on the counter-attack. Even Belgium, who didn't defend at all well against Spain, conceded six goals, but they managed to score two themselves just by running in behind Paredes, the captain, who's 34 now, I think, and isn't very quick.

14:03He's never been very quick and certainly isn't now. So I think England will have chances, but Spain, yeah, they're the strong favourites. I think from the first game, you thought, wow, this is a team playing at a different level to everyone else. And the reason for that is it's basically the Barcelona attack with Gonzalo as a different centre forward. But they've just got the combination player and the understanding that no one else has. And that should be good enough for them to win on Sunday night. So you were at the game Wednesday night, Michael. Of course, Switzerland had previously held out for 66 minutes with a kind of dogged defensive approach.

14:38What did Germany do? And is there anything in their setup that Serena Wigman might be looking to emulate? Yeah, Germany, a really funny one, because in the group stage, they defended absolutely appallingly. I mean, they conceded four to Sweden. There was no chance they were going to win the competition. Then they got a player sent off 10 minutes in against France, had to kind of just park the bus and play defensively. And suddenly they realised, oh, hang on, we can actually do that. if we play a completely different way. And they played that way against Spain. And I think by and large, I mean, the goalkeeper Berger made some good saves.

15:08But I think by and large, they'll be happy with how they played and how many chances they created. They just weren't quite efficient enough on the break. So yeah, I think it will be probably a similar template for England. I mean, we know how these things go. The manager of the side playing Spain always comes out in the press conference and says, yeah, we're not going to play negatively. We want to try and dominate possession. They, of course, know that they're not going to. so I think England will get chances it's just about yeah it's just about how clinical they are and that that hasn't been uh hasn't been a quality they've offered so far really I mean I think Russo and Hemp and Lauren James as well they've got into the right positions but with the exception of James against the Netherlands okay there was the Wales game against fairly fairly weak opposition but England just haven't looked that sharp in front of goal and it feels like they will get probably two or three opportunities and they'll have to take them because Spain will dominate possession.

16:02And as I said earlier, Spain are probably the only other team in the competition who can match England in terms of the substitutes they can bring on. Parallelo is a really good direct player. Vicky Lopez started the tournament fantastically and was probably unlucky to lose her place when Bonmati became fit again. And Athena del Castillo scored a great goal against Italy. She was actually the one who made the... had a big impact in the game they played in the European Championship in Brighton three years ago. England eventually won that game, but it was Del Castillo who really made inroads and put Spain ahead on the night.

16:38So it is a tough ask for England. I think if England are to lose the final, I think the ultimate conclusion will be they just don't have as good players as Spain and they don't all play together for the club. So Wigermann's got a big task, I think, to come up with tactics that will beat Spain. Germany held out for 113th minute, could easily have won it themselves in the final minutes of regulation time. But it was Spain who went through to the final, thanks to the best player in the world, who pulled off something absolutely extraordinary, 113 minutes in, catching the equally extraordinary burger out at her near post.

17:14Tom, your thoughts on this goal? Describe it, first of all. Yeah, so basically Bonmati is in the inside right channel, just on the edge of the German penalty area, calls for a pass which she receives, spins him behind, I think it was Rebecca Knack, and she's at a really wide angle. The ball is about to reach the byline. It looks like the only thing she can do from that position is put in a cross or some kind of cutback, and yet she somehow squeezes the ball between Anne Katrin Berger and her near post and scores.

17:59and like i've certainly conflicted because if there's any player in a women's game capable of doing something like that on purpose it is itana bon matty because she's incredible but also no one shoots from there i don't know i mean did she did she talk about it after the game michael did she confess as to whether or not it was on purpose yeah she said something really interesting which was that she said the video analysis team had looked at Germany before the game and saw that Berger often leaves space at a near post. So she shot for the near post. Well, there we go. There it is. So I must say, I'm surprised you're even questioning it.

18:35I didn't even consider that. I mean, what else would she have been trying to do? Cross it? Yeah, I wondered whether she was just desperately trying to hook her foot around the ball. Just because, like, when does anyone ever score a goal like that? I mean, it's so rare. I agree. It was unusual. Yeah. But no, fair play. Fair play. It's a shame, really, because I think, I mean, I was midway through that match. I was saying to my colleague Charlotte that Berger maybe has been the player of the tournament so far. And then she gets caught out at near post. I think the interesting thing is that when you look at how many cross, like Spain played so many driven crosses across the six yard box, that Berger was often having to kind of come in and anticipate.

19:16yeah it's like she's fully focused on that and doesn't even consider the possibility of the shot because as you say Tom it's such an unusual position to do it but um yeah it was interesting I mean Bon Matty's a very interesting player like not not a typical footballer she's very I mean very intelligent very kind of uh bookish and quite reserved and loves the real granular analysis of matches which I think a lot of players actually I think a lot of players especially in the women's game don't really like I don't think they like that particular attention to detail but she's different and yeah to cite the the scouting they'd done on the position of the goalkeeper before the game yeah I can't think of many situations where a player's just said yeah the goalkeeper often has a weakness at the near post sometimes you hear oh the goalkeeper plays a long way off their line maybe we can lob them but to kind of pinpoint a specific thing at the near post yeah that's to think about it in that moment is good and I must say I actually don't think Bon Matty was playing very well I was saying not only was I saying Berger was the best player in the tournament I was saying they should take off Bon Matty and bring on Lopez so it's a good job I'm not in charge.

20:22Shows how much you know. Yeah it's interesting isn't it that the kind of whole narrative of that game and the tournament to some extent has been how brilliant Anne Katrin Berger is and what incredible recovery she's made to be able to to resume her career but it was only what a couple of days before the tournament that Bon Matty was released from hospital having had meningitis that's pretty incredible that she can go that deep into a game and you know have the match winning action in it it's going to be interesting to see how fatigued the players both sets of players look I think in the final isn't it because obviously both gone to extra time in the semis England have had this day's extra rest and carrying players like Lauren James who clearly doesn't look fit and others like Alex Greenwood and Lauren Hemp who've missed massive chunks of the season through injuries of their own.

21:09It might just be about who can endure as much as anything else. Yeah, I think that extra day of rest is crucial actually. And the pattern over the last 13, if you take the last 13 finals in the men's and women's Euros and the men's and women's World Cup, the team who have played the first semi-final have won every time with the exception of Euro 2017 when the semifinals were played on the same day, so it didn't really matter. But the pattern is incredible to the extent that you think they might want to shift the format of the competition. That's extraordinary. I mean, we're all sports scientists here.

21:46So how much is it a factor that England have played back-to-back extra time periods? Yeah, I mean, I think you have to think that is a factor as well. And yeah, to be honest, England just, they haven't looked particularly fit at any point in the competition. I would say they've had a few players they've had really disjointed seasons Georgia Stanway who's probably the most energetic player missed she didn't play for Bayern Munich after December I think and there's been you know Lauren Hemp's had problems Lauren James has had problems Kira Walsh moved club halfway through the season so had a bit of a disjointed campaign so yeah the fitness levels of the players I don't think has looked that great this tournament so there are a lot of reasons to say that England won't win on Sunday I think the only reason is this extra day of rest which yes statistically does seem absolutely almost the key factor wow matt any final thoughts before the final um yeah a couple i mean i think it's always worth pointing out and and there was a really good piece on this before the semi-final the hannah hampton story um obviously it's a special game for everybody but she lived in spain from the age of five to 11 got a lot of her footballing education there but just the fact that that she's had this problem with her eyes that meant she had multiple operations on them before she was five years old she has no depth perception and clearly was told as a child you will not be able to play professional sport i just think to to not only do that but to reach you know the pinnacle of her profession and she's obviously had to displace a much-loved squad member which caused a lot of rancor amongst certain england supporters i just think it's one of the most incredible stories in in sport in recent time that you can play that position with that disability have no depth perception and be a goalkeeper it just seems absolutely incredible to me that that she can do it and and do it so well and the other thing is all hail a 16 team tournament and we've we've whistled through this you know last in the semi-final they're saying oh that's the first nil nil in the 30th game i'm thinking we get to the world cup next year that's going to be like the second round of group games isn't it the 30th game so yeah much more enjoyable having this this streamlined format long long way to continue it's really nice to just be able to keep on top of everything.

23:57It's been two games a day in the group stage. I've watched pretty much everything. I feel like I know all the teams and it's just a really, it's the perfect format. 16 teams is absolutely brilliant. Boom. We'll have loads more on the final at theathletic.com. In the days leading up to Sunday's clash in Basel, five o 'clock Sunday afternoon, is it Michael? Your time? Yep, it is. UK time. There you go. it will be Spain's first ever having beaten Germany for the first time ever it'll be their first ever Euro final there you go and also only the second European championship final since 1995 that Germany have not featured in there you go next up let's get on to this week's transfer tour

25:08We'll see you next time.

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27:08do you? Luis Figo leaving Barcelona for Real Madrid, the ultimate betrayal.

27:25How is that 25 years ago? That is making me feel the old. It's still the reference, isn't it in terms of controversial transfers? Because nobody else does that. I mean, we talked last week about the fact that I think only two players have gone from one of the Merseyside clubs to the other in the last 65 years odd and which teams was it most taboo to transfer between. But this is a pretty big one, isn't it? Has anyone done it since Figo? Possibly, let's see. We've got people at Javier Saviola who played for both, but I don't think he'd... Did he move directly between the two? I think he did, but I think he'd been on loan.

28:06I think Barcelona had had him out on loan and then he went to Real Madrid rather than being like a figurehead of the Barca team doing one for their most archiest of rivals. Anyway, it was extraordinary. And the scenes that followed on his first return to the Camp Nou, equally so with a pig's head flung onto the field.

28:38It was also, in many ways, the transfer that kick-started the Galactico era. He came in for what was then a ludicrous£44 million. The following summer we had Zinedine Zidane arriving at Real Madrid from Juventus. Then it was Ronaldo coming in from Inter. And then David Beckham and so on and so forth. Heady times, eh? At least they got a world record fee for him. It's not Sol Campbell to Arsenal or, you know, if you're me, Chris Commons to Derby, is it? At least there's some compensation there, I suppose. Yeah. Fair enough, Matt. Fair enough. By the way, if you're as excited about this story as I am and the recollections thereof, You'll be delighted to know that you can hear a podcast all about it.

29:27The Athletic FC, of course, have their transfers that shook the world series out. Could hardly do a series like that without featuring Luis Figo. So boom, from Friday, you too can marvel at the fact that this was all 25 years ago. For us today, as of now, what are we going to talk about? Oh, there's a bit of Champions League news. Second qualifying round, Russell Martin. Remember him? he had his first game in charge of Rangers they took on Panathinaikos in the second qualifying round of the Champions League first leg, 2-0 win for Rangers still that tricky trip to Greece to come but a good start for Russell Martin your attention and mine possibly has been occupied with transfers away from Euro 25 of late where the Hugo Eketiki move has now actually gone through as referenced at the top And usually he is a man with a palindromic surname.

30:24I should have looked this up, but does he enter into a pantheon of palindromically named football greats? What other ones are there? Matt, you're Googling this idea. Yeah. Well, he didn't make a first-team appearance, but Liverpool did once have, about 20 years ago, had a youth team player called Leon Knoll, which was a really good one. And I can only assume he was very much liberate. naming by his parents. And why not? And why not? Liverpool also had, more recently, Shea Ojo, another palindromic surname, albeit a shorter one, therefore slightly less satisfying. Yeah, I think it's got to be five plus letters.

31:09You reckon? I've got to say. Massimo Odo? Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, it doesn't pass Michael's trick criteria, but in other regards, that gets a tick. Marcelo Salas? Yes, now we're talking. Yeah, Salas. Boom. Lovely. Yeah. Perhaps you've got one of your own, listener. Enjoy it. As Tom now tells us, whether he's actually... Was he a bit of a rebound signing, Tom? Is he the player that Liverpool need, etc., and so on? Everyone pile in on that. I mean, he's got so much potential. when he broke through at Haas he looked incredible and before we get on to any considerations of how effective he is or how he's going to slot in he's such a great player to watch he's quite kind of an unusual player very tall and slender but with this fantastic kind of languid style just rolls away from defenders really inventive in the way that he uses the ball uses the outside of his foot a lot someone who's like constantly inventing ways to get past defenders ways to score so yeah you know broke into the house team in 2022-23 and you thought well you know the world is at his feet goes to PSG and that right from the start that felt like a bad move because he was competing with Mbappe and Neymar and Messi predictably got very little game time and his career basically stalled but has been reborn at Eintracht Frankfurt.

32:42And I think, you know, we've seen, you know, from him since he joined what he's capable of doing. And I mean, the thought of him and Florian Wurtz linking up, the kind of interplay that they might be capable of is really mouth-watering. I guess, you know, there are inevitably question marks because he is such a young player, because he hasn't got a huge amount to build upon. I mean, you know, prior to joining Frankfurt, he was just, you know, completely untapped potential. He started to show at Frankfurt what he's capable of doing. I think if the planets align at Liverpool, he could become an absolute world beater.

33:20But yeah, I'm just really looking forward to watching him play every week. Because him sitting on the bench week after week at PSG was so miserable, particularly when the Mbappe, Messi, Neymar, Ménage à Trois was so dysfunctional. functional the fact that they were also blocking this magnificent talent from getting in the game time just made it even more frustrating so I mean you know he's gonna have to prove himself the big competition for places he might need time to to find his feet but in terms of of talent he's yeah very very exciting uh yeah I'm not going to pretend to be a big um Eketike expert although producer Charlie did ask me for players whose names I'd like to scream in commentary and he feels like he could soon be at the top of that list but uh i do think it's interesting to it to it matt ekatike um i do think it's interesting who's your favorite who's your current favorite my current favorite is omar marmoush which i use to express various forms of frustration disappointment anger i think if for anything like that you know lost your keys uh left the Hobbon, anything like that.

34:26Omar Marmouche, absolutely perfect for it. Omar Marmouche is almost palindromic. I don't know if there's a kind of acinatic palindrome form, but yeah, sorry. But in terms of when you're actually commentating, is there a name that you like to Rabanelli it up on? Marmouche is the one at the moment, I've got to say. Moises Caicedo is pretty good for that as well. Caicedo, is he going to try and beat him? From inside is Ogar! Oh, Moises Caicedo! I can't believe it what a way to score your first Chelsea goal how on earth does he manage that that sounds like you lost your keys to me yeah yeah very much so but back to Ekotike but more Liverpool I think it's interesting obviously Arna Slott brilliant first season won the league at Akanta but he had this kind of plug-in and play set up at Liverpool I'm really interested to see how he integrates different players into that and players who they spent a lot of money who are going to be expecting to feature every week.

35:26Obviously, Kyrgyz, Premier League ready, no problem there. But Frimpong and Wurtz and now Eketike, who's going to make way for those players and how are they going to get on in the Premier League? It's a really interesting challenge for Slott, I think. Did Eketike do a themed social media post to salute Frankfurt? Rashford did one, of course, for Barcelona, appearing, it's kind of doing a Superman in a red telephone box. possibly you saw that brian and bemo boomer had a what i'm told was an interstellar inspired farewell video although i'd heard that before i saw it and then was slightly disappointed because i thought maybe there'd be black holes and a library and the screaming that's what you wanted you wanted future brian and bemo screaming through the bookshelf yeah and he put a lot of effort into it he's in a space capsule did you think he put a lot of effort into it Jimbo because I thought that they kind of put to him do you want to do all this kind of stuff and he went now sit in the seat and watch a video for a bit and then you guys take it from there and he's probably watching the video hearing his name pronounced in four or five different ways and losing enthusiasm for the project as it went on that that was how I interpreted it well you know what Matt you've Totally turned my thoughts around on that.

36:44I agree with you. I agree with you. Anyway, ooh, Andrew Turmer, on a serious note, says, what's his Brentford's plan? They could end the summer, says Andrew, without Frank and Bumo, Norgard and Visser, and with Matthew Benham pulling back after selling a portion of his ownership. Well, we did talk about Brentford quite substantially in, I think, on last Thursday's show with Jay Harris. and the feeling does seem to be that they've earned the right to do things their way. But this is obviously a major summer of upheaval for the club. Victor Jojka is, or Gojka is, or Jojka is, or how are you saying that one, Matt Davis-Adams?

37:29I'm waiting for the Premier League pronunciation video when he will inevitably mumble it into the microphone. The guy will say, can you just do that one more time for me, please? He'll mumble it again, we'll move on, and then people will just interpret it. But they'll be different. However they want. Yes, but you know, my experience with this, Jimbo, and I've discussed this with the likes of Nathan Ake and Nathaniel Chalabert, they just don't care. They simply do not care. You can call them whatever you like. Okay, Jokers it is then, Victor. Jokers, Jokers Wild, play the Jokers. That's the one that works for me.

37:58And it looks like the long-awaited move from Sporting to Arsenal may be at its conclusion. I hope not. I fancy another week or two of this just to kind of keep the transfer pot bubbling along. But yes, assuming that it is going through, have we talked enough about how Arsenal line up with him and all the other players they've picked up and what this means for, say, Kai Havertz and that kind of thing? Michael, have you got strong opinions? I don't even know who they've signed, to be honest. Okay, so they've got Kepa Azarabalaga. It's all right, they don't care. They don't care how it's said. Oh.

38:39Well, you know what? Actually, he was very insistent. Don't bother with the surname. Just call me Kepa. You're only going to get it wrong. Yeah, really? Kepa. Okay, they've got Kepa. They've got Martin, bracket Zubamendi, Christian Norgard, and Noni Maduecki. Oh, yeah. Oh, and also Christian Moschera. Oh, yeah, the centre-back, yeah. Have they signed him? Is that confirmed? I'm not sure it's been confirmed yet, but it's close. Are we not full? Here we go on that. Okay. are close. But in terms of the folk up front, what happens to Habas? Does he drift back to a kind of more conventional attacking midfielder fluidificante type role?

39:20Maybe. I mean, I think Joachim is quite a good signing for Arsenal in the sense that I don't think, for all the fuss and the big fee, I don't think he's a player who has to start every game. I think there's going to be times where he could be used from the bench. And I think by and large, that's what you want if you're a top club and you've got a central striker like that. I know Erling Haaland's had a fantastic impact at Manchester City in terms of his goals scored but I actually think they've become a little bit too predictable since he joined and actually when you look at the metrics in terms of goals scored they're actually not scoring any more goals since Haaland came in than they did when they didn't have a centre-forward and they were basically playing a rotating cast of attacking midfielders so I think Arsenal have gone for the right option as someone who is an option and is going to start the majority of games but I do think there's probably times in big games where Arsenal might play without a conventional number nine.

40:10I mean, Havertz is a funny one because we still talk about him as not being a conventional number nine, even though I think he's started more games up front than he has in any other position since he came to English football because he had a good spell of Chelsea playing up front as well. So yeah, I think they've obviously got a good number of attacking options now. and I think it's down to Arteta to create something that is varied and unpredictable because I think at times, I think Jeremy Carragher did a good segment about this on Monday Night Football. The goals Arsenal scored were kind of system goals.

40:45They were the goals that the players were in the team to score, if that makes sense. They didn't have kind of different ways of unlocking defences. They had become quite predictable, I think. And Arteta hasn't, since Arteta came in, Arsenal haven't really signed a top-class attacker who's completely done it. I mean, Odegaard maybe is an attacking midfielder, but the two key players really have been Martinelli and Saka, who have come through when they were pretty young. So we're still yet to see Arsenal go to the next level by adding a proper attacker. Fair amount of pressure on Giocares in that the narrative around Arsenal, to an almost comedic extent, particularly in the last couple of seasons, has been, well, they just need a number nine.

41:30They just need a number nine. They just need a number nine. If they sign a number nine, that's it. That's all they need. Sign a number nine, they'll win the league. Why are they refusing to sign a number nine? It's just so obvious. Sign a number nine. And now they've signed a pure number nine coming off the back of two exceptional seasons at Sporting. And I think there will be an expectation, perhaps not from all Arsenal fans, but certainly within the fan base that this is the missing piece of the puzzle. It perhaps helps him that he's coming in now rather than 12 months previously when they were so much closer.

41:59But yeah, you know, as Coxsey says, there's no reason why he should necessarily start every game. But tradition kind of dictates that when you spend that amount of money on a number nine, that they, you know, they invariably do start every game. And the need for him to score goals, to start to, you know, repay some of the transfer fee will be very pressing. and it is an additional string to Arsenal's bow in an attacking sense. It gives them something they've not had for the last three or four years and it corresponds with the kind of profile of player you felt that they've been lacking. But yeah, he does arrive with a fair amount of expectation around him.

42:40Indeed. Wow. It's going to be interesting to see how it all fits together for Arsenal and also for Sunderland. segue ahoy where granite shaka may or may not be lining up granite shaka one of the few footballers to say i only want sunderland well can someone explain that to me someone who's a bit detached from men's football why why is it you're going to sunderland he's been playing really well for like a title winning side the past couple of years inter had high hopes of signing him, but he said, no, Milan. What am I missing? I want Wearside. I was baffled by that. I mean, great signing for Sundland if they get me.

43:22Yeah, but the point is possibly moot because his new Leverkusen manager, Eric Ten Haag, has said his agent can say whatever he wants, but this club has already let three important players go, Florian Verz, Jeremy Fringpong and Jonathan Tarr, and we won't let any more leave. So we shall see. Those standoffs generally end with the player doing one anyway, possibly with an extra bag of cash coming in the other direction. But as it stands, that move a long way from being settled. But yeah, something about Sunderland, which is a lovely place and a great project, has attracted Granite to the exclusion of all other possible destinations.

44:01The other big transfer tale that's been rumbling along is the Alexander-Izak-Willi-Wonti leave Newcastle business. after skipping their defeat to Celtic the other day in a friendly. He will also not be travelling for Newcastle's pre-season tour to Singapore. The club, though, say this is injury-related, an issue with his thigh, and that a long-haul flight wouldn't have helped his recovery, which all makes sense. However, there's enough room there for any conspiracy theorists to play in. So we'll see. Monday we'll be back after the Euro 25 final, Spain-England, and we'll not only review, of course, Sunday's big game in Basel, but also get the latest on the EZAC talk and all the other transfer bits of business.

44:47Today, though, we're going to finish off with something pretty special. Tom Williams, you're up because it's time for InterTotally Semi-Final 2.

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46:39This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. Into Totally time, everybody, and I'm excited. It's our second semi-final. Last week, you may have heard producer Charlie, underdog, battling his way into the final for the second time in three years. Who's going to face him there? Let's meet the contenders.

47:08Up first, there's no one busier in football media than this PSG fan. He hates to lose almost as much as Luis Enrique, so expect fists to fly if things don't go his way. He is the style in profiling, limousine riding, jet stealing, kiss stealing, wheeling and dealing, son of a gun. He is Julien Leroyne. All that and so much more. Julien Leroyne. Excuse your French. Hello, boys. Hello, everyone. Jules, you're literally in France at the moment. On holidays, yeah. Indeed. But just through my holidays, I've got time for you and Tom Williams, of course. Wow, yeah. Tom Williams is the rival that you're up against.

47:49Jules, you've never, ever reached the final before. That's right. It's a big day for you. It's a massive day. I prepared really well the last couple of weeks. Intense training, you know, quiz revisions morning, afternoon. I love running as well to stay fit and my cardio up through this whole process. So, you know, like, yeah. And I put on the time too. Well, can you make like your PSG and get all the way to the final? We won't go into what happened there. We'll find out shortly. But here is who you're up against.

48:29And his opponent is the Tokyo Football Show's francophilic Welshman who specialises in the language of football hoping to poppity-ping his way into the final just like he did in 2023 he's Mr. Vavavuntastic it's Tom Williams Tom Williams James, hello. Hello, James. So excited to see you here in a semi-final again. Yes, my third semi-final in this august competition. The first two have gone reasonably well, so hoping I can build on that experience today. Reasonably well in the sense that you've reached the final in the last two Inter-Totally Cups. Wow, did you win any? Yeah, two finals, Jules. Two finals, that's two medals that no one can take away from me.

49:19That's the important thing. Got there into the final. But you won nothing. I'm just checking. As yet, but that experience will only stand me in good stead for this season's edition. In your first final, Tom, you lost to Producer Charlie, but then last year you knocked him out in the semifinals, and it is, of course, Producer Charlie who awaits for whoever makes it through from this second semifinal. Anyway, enough of my yakking. George, you've never reached the final. this could be your day let's find out as we get into the questions and Jules you're up first

49:59question one is in what year did the following all take place Argentina won the Copa America Roberto Baggio won the Ballon d 'Or and Manchester United won the English title what year was that? 1994 is incorrect is incorrect Jules it was 1993 Tom for an early lead can you tell us in what year did these events all take place Brazil won the Copa America Ronaldo Nazario won the Ballon d 'Or and Chelsea won the FA Cup

50:431997 Oh is correct is correct is he on his way to his third straight final? Here's question two. Jules, at which Brazilian club did Kaká start his career? São Paulo. He's correct. And they're level. Tom, at which Brazilian club did Ronaldinho start his career?

51:12I think it was Grêmio. You think correctly, Tom Williams. Very impressive stuff and you take an 8-1 lead into our third round of questions. Jules, to pull level, here are some details about a transfer that broke the world record. Can you name the player involved? The clubs were Lazio and Inter. The year was 1999 and the fee was around£32 million at the time a world record. Who was the player? The year was 1999. The clubs were Lazio and Inter. And the fee are now picturesque£32 million.

52:05Diego Simeone. Is incorrect. Is incorrect. It was... Tom, do you know? Christian Vieri? Correct! But you don't get a point for it, just the satisfaction. Quite a sizable satisfaction it is too. Here's your question to establish a two-point lead. Here are some details about a transfer that also broke the world transfer record. But who was the player involved? The clubs were Sampdoria and Juventus. The year was 1992. And the fee was around£12 million. Who was the player?

52:47so 1992 much easier question for Tom Williams I won't lie 1992 Sampdorio and Juventus 12 million pounds even the Copa America won once he knew my year he knew his year what did that buy you in 1992 or who I think it may have bought you a Gianluca Vialli oh my god Tom once again you're correct it's so easy Three won the score. Vieri was definitely easier than Vieri. He was not. Definitely not. Sometimes he had two players, Manchini and Vieri, and that's it. Seven years more recent. But 92, they went to the final of the European Cup. Jules, you're going all Luis Enrique on us, aren't you? Absolutely.

53:28He's having a Joey Barton over it. So easy, man. It's not over yet, Jules. You just need to answer these two correctly and Tom to have a mare on the final two questions. So, Jules, first of all, let's see if you can get question four right. which MLS side is Dean Smith currently managing oh f*** that I've got no idea Dean Smith is the coach you need this Jules yeah of the New England Revolution FC it's incorrect Jules right Tom DC United I don't know no Charlotte FC alright that was going to be my second guess would it yeah let's test Jules' theory that he gets the tougher questions by seeing if he can answer your question four then.

54:13Jules, which MLS side is Phil Neville currently managing? New England Revolution. DC United. It's Portland Timbers. Question five then, just because we've come all this way. Yeah. Jules, what was unique in Premier League terms about Cole Palmer scoring four goals for Chelsea against Brighton last season? it was the quickest to do it they were all in the first half the only time a player is called four times in the first half in a Premier League game Tom your question five would have been what was unique in Premier League terms about Justin Kluivert's hat trick for Bournemouth against Wolves last season and Jules do you know this one all penalties I mean don't give me that this is not easier than the other one come on yeah penalties well what could have been Jules what could have been but Tom deserves it completely and I think the you know the people wanted to see Charlie against Tom in the final again and Tom is going to win this time it's a lot of edge a lot of edge to that to that clash a lot of history there but Jules you've never had the pleasure of taking on producer Charlie before we've also never had a non-English winner of the Intertotally Cup because it's been Story and Coxie three times and producer Charlie but maybe a chance to plant that welsh flag atop one of the highest pinnacles in quitting push a charlie rise the questions yeah yeah that is that's always the risk nick nick miller oh sorry nick miller who by the way who decides who goes first well that was um that was pretty so ben writing the intros so that it says and the man he's up against with tom williams so that kind of meant you go first.

56:00Okay. Yeah. I mean, it put the pressure on you. It goes right to the top, Jules. Anyway, Jules, I'm sorry that your months of hard work, physio and revision and that have gone to waste, but your tan looks great. Thank you. Just say on behalf of... I'm going back to tanning, by the way. Okay. You enjoy yourself, Jules. You enjoy yourself. Thank you, boys. Tommy, bonne chance, mon ami, for the final. Merci, mon ami. Je viens avec le drapeau français de ta part. super bien, avec plaisir. Oui. So, well, that was quite beautiful, whatever it was. And many thanks to you, Jules. And Tom, you're going to be back in the final next week.

56:41Can I come? Which venue? Is there no, there's no, no, no fans? I'm not sure if it's behind closed doors after the ugly scenes that followed last time. Should be in a big venue. People will pay for this. Well, that's a theory I'm willing to test out, Jules. But anyway, you enjoy your holiday. and Tom congratulations once again it's you against producer Charlie

57:08wow Tom we recorded that yesterday that'll be inserted into the edit so Matt and Michael still haven't heard what happened but all I can say is I mean there's nothing I can say really well brace yourselves that's all I'll say brace yourselves adopt the brace position literally well it lived up to our every expectation a tom williams julian lawrence clash and there'll be the denouement of the intertotally next week in a special standalone show in which today's winner takes on producer charlie him again that though wraps it up for today's episode so many thanks matt davis adams tom williams michael cox julian Laurents and guest producer Lucy for making it all happen especially you listener have a great weekend we'll be there Monday and thereafter with our reaction to the Spain England game and more so I hope you'll be joining us for that for now from all of us here it's goodbye

58:16you've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network for more great football podcasts like this one including the Athletic FC and our six dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify, and all the usual places. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

58:38The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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59:26Whether I'm traveling, getting a workout in, or heading into a busy day, I keep Liquid IV on hand. It's clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone and contains three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. It's an easy addition to your daily routine and helps support hydration when you need it most. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you. Thank you.