England v Germany again, Argentinian agony and Lyon’s relegation

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2:23The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

2:32Totally full of show today, Club World Cup. Benfica beat Bayern, but what does it mean for Chelsea? Boca get punished by Mr. Christian Grey, and there are red cheeks for River too. Hakuna very much not Matata, as they also depart. Away from the States, but also featuring Ohio, England reach another under-21 final. We'll talk about their chances there. plus Pog back, Leon go down and who will go out in round two of the Intertotally Cup it's the Totally Football Show

3:13Thursday 26th of June hey listener great that you've chosen to join us again we've got Daniel Story, Tom Williams and JJ Ball with us Hello everyone Hello James What's that sound in the background? It's nice isn't it? That's off JJ's new album Attack! Which came out last Friday What tracks were we listening to there? That's Carlo Ancelotti It's a lead track Of course it is Off of the record I've got some vinyls made as well But they're not available anymore I sold them out in three hours How many are we talking? 50 That's a lot for me I mean 50's 50 isn't it? Wow That's great and that's available on Spotify.

3:52That's on Spotify, Apple Music, all the places you can stream music, you can listen to 11 songs that are about footballers but they're not really about footballers. No. I mean, Angela, anyone, you'd be hard-pressed to tell what it's about but it sounds great. It's a vibe, I think, that I enjoy. Oh, that's nice, thanks. Yeah, not at all. I like it too. Any Club World Cup anthems in the works at all, are there? I should probably be doing those because then it would be helpful for social, you know, spreading them on social media. Exactly, yes. Engagement, traction. But I'm trying to give myself a bit of a break from making songs up every single day because I've done that for about a year.

4:22Isn't it something that you need to express that creative urge? And you also need to get the creative energy back by not constantly being at it all the time. Okay, good. Well, it's nice that you've chosen to join us as part of your taking a break from creative business. Yeah, nice. Excellent. What have you been up to, Daniel's story? I haven't seen you for a week or two. I've been on holiday to the Faroe Islands. Of course. And I have been watching The Youngblood to 21 Euros. Brilliant. Which has been great fun. Brilliant. and Tom Williams is with us as well as mentioned Tom you've been talking about soccer cleats yes I have yes pre-pod how did we even get onto that I don't know but yeah if anyone is looking for any social media based soccer cleat slash boot advice I recommend a guy called Brian Byrne whose twitter handle is at soccer cleats 101 and Brian is an ex-pro who specialises in football boot reviews and also advice and I sounded him out for some football boot advice probably about 15 years ago via Twitter because my boots kept splitting open What boots were they Tom?

5:36I used to go for the kind of flashy Unite Mercurials, Unite Hypervenoms as a creative attacking player at whom these boots are very squarely marketed And he was like, these boots generally are very poorly made. You're not doing the accent this time. No, no. I'd save that for you, James. That's premium content. He was like, get yourself some Nike Tiempo's, the sturdiest boot on the market. So I bought myself a pair of Nike Tiempo Astro trainers. I've worn them ever since. Good Lord. How many years? I reckon maybe not 15 years, but at least 10, maybe even 12, 13. Wow. I'll tell you how we got onto that topic.

6:14I was discussing whether black boots make you seem slower, either, as I was referencing, to other players, to players who might be trying to defend you. And I was citing a wide receiver from American football from the 1980s. Or to yourself, because I then discovered that Cristiano Ronaldo apparently won't wear black boots because he thinks that they have a psychological impact on your own confidence, your own ability to commit to pace, I suppose. Well, he wore black boots in his first season at Madrid, didn't he, Ronaldo? When he was wearing the number nine shirt, you kind of wonder whether moving away from black boots, getting back in the number seven shirt was kind of part of his Madrid evolution.

6:55I wonder if it ever times in with the marketing campaigns of certain boot manufacturers or anything like that. I think in Man City's youth academy, they have to wear black boots. Is that right? I think so. I read that the other day. But also, maybe that comes into that, you know how goalkeepers wear bright colours? so certain colours appear brighter make you look larger so if you wear like bright orange or bright yellow or pink or something like that the real neon ones it makes you stand out more so when a striker is about to shoot and go it makes you look even bigger psychologically Would there not be a case for wearing a kit that was essentially composed of people's faces so that you could blend into the crowd and thus strikers might not know where to hit the ball Or you could have what you could also have is like almost like another person joined onto you so another version of you next to it so the striker is going down like oh I'm seeing double I think there'd be a rule against that someone should try it a giant kit that makes a goalkeeper three times as wide but it's just fabric it's just fabric give it a go so reverse reverse Cameroon AFCON kit that got banned for being too tight too tight it's too willowy the famous sleeveless number Club World Cup everybody Daniel this will all be new to you but since last time All four Brazilian sides have got through to the knockout stages And both Argentina sides have crashed out Inter beat River Plate into Milan Not the, you know, not the Leo Messi out there Inter beat River Plate 2-0 early Thursday morning UK time Wild ending to that game with Marcos Acuna Essentially leading a manhunt against Denzel Dumfries Montre also going through from that group after beating Urawa 4-0 But the other Argentine side, Boca Juniors, they are out after events in Group C.

8:37Boca in the searing heat of Nashville on Tuesday can try to draw 1-1 with Auckland City. Well done, Auckland City. Christian Grey, excitingly, their goalscorer. But Boca were out already because by the time their second half started, after a weather delay, Benfica had already beaten a much-changed Bayern Munich 1-0. And that means that Chelsea, who themselves beat Esperance 3-0 on Tuesday, will now be facing Benfica in the last 16. While Flamengo, who went to the bother of topping that group to get an easier draw, now have to face Bayern. Yikes. Last 16 clashes so far decided. Then we've got Saturday, Palmeiras against Botafogo, that all-Brazilian affair, and Benfica-Chelsea.

9:20On Sunday, Paris Saint-Germain against Leal Missis Inter-Miami and Flamengo-Bayern. There's two other last 16 pairings that we know. Monday, Inter take on Fluminense. And on Wednesday, Dortmund, who will 1-0 winners against Koreans Ulsan, will take on Monterey. The other two last 16 pairings will feature Groups G and H. Juve and Man City from Group G, they're already through. And they'll be meeting on Thursday evening to decide which one of them gets to meet the winner of Group H, which you assume would be Real Madrid, although they're not actually on top right now. But given that one team will be facing Real Madrid and the other one will be facing possibly Red Bull Salzburg, it's kind of a big game, that Juve against Man City, on Thursday evening.

10:11Al-Halal also in with a chance of making it out of the Real Madrid group. Anyway, that's all very exciting. We'll start off with a bit of events in the United States. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

10:34Early Thursday UK time in Seattle. Inter beat River Plate 2-0. Anyone see any of this because it was mad? Yeah, saw the highlights and felt that River Plate really did their best to uphold the old traditions of the Intercontinental Cup, which were renowned more than anything else for their absolute savagery, particularly in the second half when Inter got ahead and started to dominate the game, the way that River Plate's players were throwing themselves into tackles, you had like two or three players going for the ball at any given time. And, you know, that ultimately paved the way for Alessandro Bastoni to waltz through and score the second goal.

11:18And then it all kicks off at the final whistle. So, I mean, you know, for upholding the rich traditions of intercontinental football contests, I say hats off to River Plate as they return to Buenos Aires. Hats off and players off, indeed. It was a tense physical affair, as you suggest. Going into the match, Marcelo Gallardo's entire first-choice midfield was suspended because of disciplinary reasons. Inter, meanwhile, got their very dynamic Dinsel Dumfries back in their line-up and dominated. This is only their third game under Christian Kivu and their best yet. It was still 0-0 until about 70 minutes in, although Inter had had the bulk of chances.

11:55It was actually a rare river foray upfield which turned the game because Inter hit back on the break. River defender Lucas Quartar brought down Henrikh Mkhitaryan. He was the last man. How slow is Quartar to be outrun by Mkhitaryan to that ball? One of the question marks. But anyway, soon after that, with River down to 10 men, enters a 19-year-old Francesco Pio Esposito, who's making his first start, got his first goal. Very nicely taken as well. Yeah. And then, as you mentioned, Bastoni, right at the death, got a second. Pio Esposito is one of the interesting things because Kivu had spent years, although he's only just become a senior manager, he spent years with the youth ranks at the Nero Zuri.

12:38And so you've got Pio Esposito scoring here, a former youth player who played under him. Carboni got the winner against the Raw Red Diamonds, also had played under him in the youth teams. And yeah, but then you get a second River player sent off, Gonzalo Montiel, after a bit of scuffle between Acuna and Dumfries. And then at the final whistle, did you see this? Well, Kivu sets off sprinting across the pitch. And I wondered whether he was doing a Mourinho, but I think he'd just seen that it was kicking off. And basically, Denzel Dumfries, who'd been involved in a bit of argy-bargy before the final whistle, is being ushered down the tunnel by a couple of teammates.

13:13As fast as possible. While the river fans pelt him with missiles. And then you get this massive scrum, load of players on the floor. I mean, the scenes that we absolutely do not want to see. Well, there are four players essentially dragging Acuna down as he takes step after slower step. And finally... Acuna attacks him like a creature trying to devour him. So he's falling down, trying to pull him down to the ground. and then just launches him with his legs. He knows you'll catch him a little bit. That seems to be what kind of sparks all the bits at the end, just lost his head and goes nuts with it.

13:47One of the things about Club World Cup I really enjoyed so far is that you never get to see these teams. So stuff like that is inherently funny. When you see the kickoffs and everyone goes nuts. And then what I think of from Argentinian, especially Brazilian football, is you often see and highlight things like this happen quite a lot. in my theory of it. But to actually see it against the teams that you know really well makes it more real. And so then you can actually see these things and it becomes more like a, not just a team that you know of and know some of the history of, but actually see them in real life makes it really exciting.

14:21Well, that's good, JJ. There is this theory which we articulated in the last show. Oh, hi, Daniel. Sorry, I was just going to mention this notion that the late games each day at the Club World Cup, which generally have been going out about 2 a.m., are the best because probably temperatures. And certainly the other game, this morning. Back that up as Monterey thumped Urawa 4-0. A couple of absolutely stormy goals. Did you see any of these? The first goal from one Nelson Deosa. Extraordinary. The amount of movement, stroke, swaz, stroke, just mind-boggling dynamics on this is quite extraordinary.

14:58Completely leaves Nishikawa, the Urawa keeper, bamboozled. They actually got three goals in nine minutes. Then there was one from Betarami and then an absolute stonker from a fellow called Jesus Corona. 38 yards out, I think he is. And a thunderbolt. With the exciting news that with that victory, that means that Sergio Ramos will be joining Leo Messi in the last 16. Daniel, what was it you've been waiting patiently to say? I was going to say on the Argentinian teams in general, we've been really impressed with the Brazilian teams, right? I think they have done better in the groups than we thought.

15:33All four going through, two going through, top of the group. Great. The Argentinian teams, I agree with JJ that it's nice to see them against European teams, but I expected so much more. I did expect the last 20 minutes and post-full-time scenes against Inter. I think that was fairly predictable that someone was going to lose their heads. But in general, the two Argentinian teams have played six games and got six points. And when you think that three of those games have been against Monterey, Urawa and Auckland City, that's a really poor return from the two Argentinian clubs. I was speaking to a guy who is in a WhatsApp group.

16:08I'm in Sam Kelly, who's a kind of Argentinian football expert, lives out in Argentina. And before the tournament, he was saying, like, lower your expectations of the Argentinian teams here. What you remember is not what is true anymore, particularly of Boca more than River. And there's just, yeah, there doesn't seem to be. I think in the past we expected that spice, but it came with technical flair and expertise. And now it sort of feels like the spice is the only thing left. Wow. The weird thing is, Bocca, in their opening game against Benfica, the first half of that, they looked absolutely brilliant.

16:40Yeah. And they were the team who came up with the most disappointing result of all, only drawing 1-1 with Auckland City, a well-done to Auckland City, and PE teacher Christian Grey, who got the equaliser in the second half. I guess the circumstances there, it's worth mentioning, involve them having a weather delay, and by the time they kicked off the second half 1-0 up, they probably needed to be winning that 6-0 or something to have a chance. But by the time that they started the second half, they already knew that Benfica had beaten Bayern. And that meant that whatever they did, they couldn't go through.

17:14They still had something like 37 attempts in the second half. But it was Auckland City who found the back of the net and earned that point. A much rejoicing back home. Anyway, with Benfica beating Bayern Munich, how about that? It's they who will be facing Chelsea. Anyone see Chelsea at all in their three-no-win over Esperance? Daniel? Yeah, I did, yeah. I mean, it was very kind of Champions League group game-y. We'll do what we need to do. We're clearly better in this team, so we'll play at arm's length, which, given what Ernst Mureska said about the heat all through the tournament, I think was fairly predictable.

17:53The standout moment was obviously Liam de Lapp's goal. It was a brilliant take, turn. The defender sold himself way too easily to allow de Lapp into the middle of the box, and then the goalkeeper kind of doesn't even offer a dive. It wasn't near the corner, but I don't think he had a chance of saving it. And also Tyreke George scored from outside the area, which was a really poor piece of goalkeeping because it looked like it was in the corner, but it was pretty much straight at him and he kind of spilled it into the corner of the net. Really nice header from Tosin as well. One of those headers from a corner that you head down and it almost looks to have a little bit of curl on it, kind of going back into that far corner across the goalkeeper.

18:31Chelsea were just, yeah, really efficient. I suspect that they are not surprised that Bayern Munich lost to Benfica and thus avoided Chelsea in the last 16. Kind of works out for everybody in the, you know, inverted commas elite group there because, yeah, nobody really wanted that last 16. I think they'll be happy to meet their first elite opponent in the quarters. So, yeah, it looks good for Chelsea. And De Lapp is probably the player from an English club in this tournament who is, you know, there were pieces being written from the game about Chelsea have finally found their number nine. et cetera, and so on, which is really, really early, obviously.

19:06But with Jackson sending off and then that dilap goal, it does feel like he's taking a kind of big step forward to usurp Jackson as the number nine until Chelsea inevitably buy another£60 or£70 million centre forward. Was it an easy game, this, against Esperance? Well, they face an XG, Chelsea, at just 0.07. Esperance, in fact, didn't drive a shot on target in the 90 minutes. We'll see then, come the last 16, whether your notion that Chelsea are top-level opponents and Flamengo aren't, bears fruit. That's who will be taking on the Bavarians, who, to be fair, fielded a much-changed team. I think eight changes by Vincent Kompany ahead of the game against Benfica.

19:47He then brought on the big guns, Kane, Olisse, etc., for the second half once Benfica had taken the lead. But as is so often the case, having started off the game in kind of first gear, They found it very hard to shift up against a well-martialed Bruno Lange outfit. And whilst it's nothing new, Bayern kind of slipping in their final group game once they've already qualified, this could be huge because it moves them into a different side of the draw. A side of the draw that looks like it'll probably contain Real Madrid, Botovolga, Flamengo, we know they'll be facing, probably Paris Saint-Germain, and either City, Man City or Juventus.

20:25So, hmm. What do you think about Chelsea-Benfica then? Oh, Daniel. Yeah, I was going to say on Benfica, the goal scorer against Bayern, Andrea Scheldorf, who is kind of for five years noted as this sort of wonder kid talent, latest wonder kid coming out of Norway. He was at Norgeland when I went to, I went a few years ago to spend a week with them as this kind of club that just exists to create young players and has done so fantastically well with links to Right to Dream in Ghana, etc. And he was this super talent that they predicted was going all the way to the top, a kind of Martin Odegaard-esque.

21:02He's going to go to an elite club and he's going to fly. And he went to Benfica and he hasn't really played much. There's been links about him leaving the club this year, but he doesn't produce it consistently enough. He's still only 21. But when he gets the ball, he does look like you can tell why at 16, 17, people would be saying this guy is the answer. so he's slightly dropped off but one thing about a summer club tournament is that it does allow potentially your ceiling to rise and rise in the transfer market if you are looking for a move it might be that you get a better move because you scored the winner against Bayern Munich so good on him funnily enough we'll be talking about a similar well a historical precedent for that kind of transfer very very shortly just to say if you're listening to all this club world cup chat and thinking I fancy a bit of that and it happens to be before eight o 'clock on Thursday evening then watched Juventus facing Man City in an absolutely key game to determine which one faces Real Madrid and which one faces quite possibly Red Bull Salzburg.

21:59So that feels like quite a distinct set of last 16 potential opponents anyway. I mean, it is getting juicier. I've been determined not to pay any attention to this tournament whatsoever and have largely succeeded so far. But now that the last 16 is taking shape, you know, that Man City-Juventus game has suddenly got a lot riding on it. and yeah the lineup looks decent. Well I've really enjoyed seeing a lot of the sort of like Sheldrup some of the wonder kids that you've heard talked about a lot actually playing in a competitive game. I saw Sheldrup play against Barcelona in that Champions League game the 5-4 and I thought he stood out there.

22:36It's interesting. He doesn't really have the pace. Maybe that's what it is. The physicality doesn't maybe have that but there's so many players that you're seeing coming through now. They've got this left back dial who's decent. They've got Antonio Silva who's back in the team now it looks like should also be another wonder kid coming through. Benfica haven't been as good as maybe they could have been of late and I think the fans aren't that delighted with the manager but they've still got a lot of wonder kids coming through and it's a shame I think that Porto just can't quite get it together because they have some amazing players individually in that team but it doesn't quite work like Rodrigo Mora really stood out in the tournament so far and he's another one of these super wonder kids that's come out kind of nowhere maybe like the next kind of he's like an Aguero type he's not a winger he's more like a nine and a half that kind of player that played like a shadow striker maybe you call him and yeah watching him is really fun because he's 17 year old he's 18 now that stand out amongst all these competitive players you can tell some of them are stars in the first touch and as soon as Moira gets on the ball you know that you can't tell what he's going to do next so it's him a few others that have missed out now and William Astava at Palmetras has been fantastic to watch as well Brilliant British Charlie just stick a Nostalgia 80s synth pop beat under that and we've got a hit press up some vinyl nice next up we're into the underworld world.

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26:41This relates, of course, back to one of the coolest stories of ever in football. 1992, 26th of June. Jon Jensen and all that. I say one of the coolest football stories, not just because Denmark did it, but also because they did it without doing any prep. We salute you. Danish Dynamite. It was a bit overconfident. Yes! Jensen! John Jensen has finally got one right. And Denmark have struck first. Martin Tyler there, with huge respect. John Jensen's opening goal for the Danes against Germany in the final. They were massive underdogs. I call them Danish dynamite. Of course, that was the previous iteration from 86 under Sepp Piontek.

27:29And one of the things about this team was that Piontek had gone and his former assistant was in charge. And it was a less than romantic. Their big tactic was pass the ball back to Peter Schmeichel. And it was because of their god-awful game-killing antics that FIFA actually changed the law, wasn't it? Well, this was the last top-level football match to feature the back-pass rule. And if you perhaps are curious as to why the back-pass rule was abolished in the summer of 1992, then watching this game will make that very clear because it was this incredible underdog success story and we all know Denmark being invited in at the last minute after Yugoslavia had to drop out because of the war.

28:15So less than a fortnight before the tournament started they got their call up. Yeah, I mean incredible build-up and a remarkable achievement sort of doing a grease before, you know, Greece did a grease and deserved winners but you watch that game and the cynicism with which they've used the back pass is remarkable. But, you know, fair play. It was within the rules in those days. Daniel, 92, of course, one of your favourite numbers. I bet you've got great memories of this tournament. Yeah, I was six years old. Do you know what? It's a weird one. It's like those tournaments for people who were born in kind of 84, 85, 86.

28:5490 came a little bit too early. 92 is those kind of really hazy memories where you can remember individual goals but can't actually remember what was going on. And then 94 was a weird tournament because it was USA and because England weren't there. So 92 is my first kind of formative memories of international football. So I do remember it. I don't remember all of it. That would be a lie. But once England had got themselves knocked out, it was good fun. All right, excellent. The 2-0 against Germany featuring Jan Jensen's opening goal. And he was the classic, perhaps the definitive, off the back of a good tournament signing because George Graham, the very next month, brought him into Arsenal.

29:34We've got a goal scoring midfielder, lads. And in 99 matches, he scored once, I think two and a half years after first arriving in North London. That's how clubs used to recruit. And now they're so much more savvier and they're so much more professional. and they realise that that is not, you know, you shouldn't base your assessment of a player on a two or three week purple patch that happens to coincide with a major tournament. But it means you get a lot fewer of those, you know, spectacularly ill-advised transfers, unless you're Real Madrid. I feel like Real Madrid is still the kind of club who's the biggest player that we will buy him.

30:12Yeah, it's fine. But Senor Perez, we have 17 centre-forwards. I want this one too. whereas most other sensible clubs have moved on to slightly more sensible transfer practices. I'm assuming that player is where the very famous and this is accurate I think the chant from Arsenal one goal for the Arsenal comes from. Right JJ? One goal for the Arsenal. That's right. Oh the real standout here for Denmark in their campaign and particularly in the final was of course Peter Schmeichel receiver of so many back passes and stopper of so many German shots. And wearer of one of the classic early 90s Spangley goalkeeper kits.

30:55Well, there you go, to dazzle the German, the oncoming Deutsche strikers. That's why they did it. Another thing they could do, they could put lights on the goalkeeper kits. That would put you off. You said you're on a creative ebb. I'd think outside the box. That's all I can do. We were talking about Spiegel before we started today and producer Charlie was mentioning that he'd seen a documentary about Peter Schmeichel's life and he was slightly ahead of it. He couldn't work out how they would get that runtime just on Peter Schmeichel's life. But it turned out that Schmeichel's dad is in himself a kind of 12-part documentary series.

31:32His life is extraordinary. Just to say he was not only a Polish spy but also a Danish spy. Ah, the old switcheroo. Yeah. Classic spy. Yeah, do seek that out. It's available on all your classic streaming platforms. Anyway, 26th of June 1996, and you might remember this even better, Daniel, also saw England lose on penalties to Germany in the semifinals of the Euros. One of the most agonising games in English football history? Unless you're JJ or Tom, of course, in which case, one of the most hilarious and enjoyable watches in English football history. I took less joy in English failures at that age I think My football heart hadn't yet been hardened by cynicism as it is today Mine too There's a lot of disliking that I find it really funny when they lose in these situations So my parents are both English so I didn't really care when I was younger How are your parents both English and you're Jewish?

32:33Well they were from there and then they moved to Aberdeen before I was born Okay. Daniel, you though, no doubt, Darren Enderton hitting the post, Gazza's a stud away. Well, a stumble away, I would say, because if he'd actually run at the ball, he would have made it. But he's kind of lumbering approach. Yeah, who can forget my granddad taking me for fish and chips? I was seeing the England opening goal go in in the fish and chip shop, it being 1-0 by the time we got home. And I think that's the last time I cried at an England football match. um i was so far 10 so far yeah so so far yeah um but no i mean from a forest perspective we were all kind of wrapped up in stewart pierce having to score the penalty uh and then it kind of oh yeah it's not over now like that was good but also we're still gonna lose on penalties here i mean it was horrible it was it was absolutely horrible but that tournament was yeah was for that people of exactly my age was just, yeah, it was an absolute awakening.

33:33It was the best thing we could have had. It had never occurred to me that a major tournament could actually happen in England, even though, you know, obviously World Cup 66, et cetera. But international football felt very alien and foreign and it's like sexy. And there it was, Turkey playing Portugal at the city ground. So I saw games live. That was my formative one as well. So I'm about the same age, I think. so I didn't really watch the 92 or 90 definitely not 92 or 94 but 96 was my first proper like I'm into football now thing they're like I think some of the commentary on Euro 96 games really like stands out there was a bit when Southgate misses he goes oh no I remember that really well

34:15but people always forget in that Euro 96 semi-final with England with Germany that Darren Anderton hit the post with that sort of over the heads yeah like basically not but he was lying down hit it that was much closer than than gaza's but no one ever talks about that it's all the gaza bit because it's more romantic i think yeah indeed i mean possibly the most agonizing the single most agonizing moment in english football history the gaza really the gaza near miss i mean partly because he scores on england reach the final probably win and you know 30 years they would have found a way to lost penalties in the final they quite possibly would have done but also for the gaza the story arc yeah and i being slightly older than jj and daniel i do remember the 1990 United World Cup and I absolutely loved Paul Gascoyne and the journey that he'd been on between 1990 when the world seemed to be at his feet and 1996 that incredible goal against Scotland and you kind of felt like this finally is the tournament that you know people always thought he would have had he scored that goal and England had gone on to win the tournament then I mean my grandfather would have been well as they say Daniel it would be it would be remiss of me not to point out that there is a book called Gazza in Italy about Italia 90 and then Gazza at Lazio written by me with a forward by James because if I can't plug it now then there's never going to be a chance to do it nicely done and there's a great audiobook of it as well very good point James yeah doing an audiobook is really really weird because normally when you read out something you kind of read it through and go okay this is how I say it but with Daniel's book which I think the printout I had to do the audiobook was about 150 pages or so something like that would that be fair yeah yeah yeah so it's it's like it was in a mini series it's like 30 000 words yeah okay oh so yeah right but still so you basically you don't read through and you just kind of do it live as it were which um i found interesting i've been told that it's an extremely laborious and quite difficult process no i just not want to but you're a pro james i'm talking for us as mere mortals it is when i write them Tom yeah I'm just going to say sorry it's a very niche observation you can cut this Charlie and you probably will but there's something very peculiar about reading books written by people who you know IRL if I'm reading a book that Daniel has written I read it in his voice of course which is not unpleasant Daniel is a man who I like and admire do you stop and sigh from time to time yeah I do I do just to really put myself red pen yeah it is funny though like when you go into a bookshop I used to love reading all the football books and I've read most of them I think that exist but now I know all the people that wrote them and it makes me think oh that's his oh that's his so do you not take them as seriously anymore whereas they were kind of unknown authoritative voices behemoths at the time well it's funny because I got into this industry quite late and so you know I still would like hero worship people that were above me and then oh yeah who were your idols well I remember even when I when I went to Telegraph first and I met Johnny Lou I was a bit starstruck with Johnny Lou I was star-struck by you the first time I met you.

37:17Really? Of course. Of course, everyone is of our age, yeah. James Richardson off the TV. We know who you are. But there's loads of people who write all the books, like Michael Cox's books, you know, they were huge. Oh, I should say, actually, on the subject of Michael Cox, he's written a great series for The Athletic on the various Euro competitions. And his article on Denmark 92 is, I mean, naturally definitive, but full of all sorts of exciting details, including Big Macs and stuff. Sorry, JJ, but back to your... No, that was kind of it. Who's been the biggest disappointment to you then, apart from me?

37:51Well, obviously it's you, yeah. I mean, I would never say who they are because I like everyone. Anyway, if after all of that you're hungry for a bit of England-Germany, the great news is, Tom, that this Saturday it's the under-21 final between England and literally Germany. England, who beat Netherlands 2-1 on Wednesday. Harvey Elliott with both of the England goals Two beauties Punctuated by a singular strike from the Netherlands Featuring the remarkably named Noah Ohio Who himself is a former England junior international But basically he spots England keeper James Beadle I would say out and about, you know, that kind of thing And catches him out from, what is it, 40 yards out?

38:36The first ball contact for Noah Ohio He looks, he sees, he shoots And perhaps Noah Ohio with his first ball contact. It's an amazing finish. It's one of those finishes that looks good in real time. And then when you see the replay from behind the goal, he doesn't, I mean, to an extent it's hit and hope, but the arc of the ball to get beyond the glove and inside the post is unfathomably good. And I also really like a celebration where a very, very good footballer looks surprised at how good the thing they've just done is. And that was very much one of those. It was also, we should say, completely against the run of the play for most of the game because England, Lee Carsley said after the group stage will grow into this tournament and England were patchy and a bit difficult.

39:18And I think that was probably because they'd lost some fairly significant players, not least the aforementioned Liam De Lappe, who would have been the first choice striker in the team and others. And they are growing in this tournament. They were dominant against Netherlands. They deserve to win by more goals. the three standout players were Elliot who took both goals with monumental composure he's going to get moved this summer I think he's going to have to better than he took the knee slide after the first yeah he spoke after the game about a slight injury to his I think he was doing it in a kind of jokey oh my god I can't believe I did that sort of way rather than I'm going to miss the final but that would be a nightmare scenario from England yeah Yeah, Elliot looks a cut above.

40:01He's one of two players with Charlie Cresswell who have been to an under-21s year before. I think you can tell that by the way he's carrying himself about the place and leading him in the team. He needs a move this summer. He needs to go to another Premier League club, probably for quite a lot of money. And then the other two that stood out were Omari Hutchinson, who has been so good on the wing for the under-21s. He could also do with a move this summer because he shouldn't be playing championship football next season. And Elliot Anderson is the other one who looks... And he was the kind of player who everybody who was at the game was saying, yeah, Harvey Elliott scored the goals, but Anderson is making this team tick.

40:35He's leading it. He will be, he has to be in an England squad at some point because Jordan Henderson might have experience, but he doesn't have the ability anymore to dictate play, to break up play, to be where the team needs to be, to be that deepest line midfielder, even though he's not a holding midfielder. and he has been one of the players of the tournament so far. Tyler Morton's back for the final after his suspension, so there's a really difficult conundrum for Karsley because Alex Scott was playing next to Anderson, who was great too. There's a real competition for places, but Germany are the favourites for the tournament.

41:08They beat England in the groups in the third game, having changed pretty much all their team and England having their full-strength team. So there's a huge psychological marker being laid down there. But Karsley just has got something with this squad. It's the second tournament in a row. England have got to the final. The last time they did that was in the mid-80s. And it completely vindicates Karsley's decision to go back to the 21s, I think. If they win the final on Saturday, then he will be immediately installed as the favourite to replace Thomas Tuchel after 2026, I think, because everything he touches seems to be working.

41:43Or sooner, indeed. Well, the final against Germany. You watched the Germany semi-final, which saw them beat France 3-0 with another standout performance from he who must not be named, Tom. Yes, indeed. Big Nick, Walter Mard. And it felt like the kind of game that Germany and France used to play in the 1980s a lot, in that France were really good, had most of the ball, created most of the chances, and Germany beat them 3-0. They were 2-0 up inside 15 minutes, a couple of mistakes by Sunguntu Magasa, the Monaco centre-back. and then they just picked Frantz off on the break in the second half. And Valtemar was brilliant, had a hand in the first goal, which was scored by the equally pleasingly named Nelson Viper, which is a great name for a footballer, particularly an attacking player, albeit it's spelled W-E-I-P-E-R rather than V-I-P-E-R, but who cares?

42:35Even better, I reckon. In a way, it makes it even better. Valtemar himself got the second, followed in after an initial attempt to dink the goalkeeper, came back to him and was a handful throughout. And I was saying to JJ before we started recording, I mean, he's a real kind of curate's egg of a footballer, six foot six, very gangly, but brilliant feet. Got a real edge to him, real snarl about him. And he'll, yeah, he'll be the main danger man for England on Saturday. All right. While you scurry off to Google curate's egg list, now here's Daniel. I was going to say, Volta Mali is, on the evidence of this tournament, is absolutely Harry Kane by a Munich replacement written all over him because he's, yeah, he does everything.

43:17He presses, he is really good in the air, obviously, and he actually, although he actually missed the best chance of the game was a header in front of goal that he put wide and couldn't believe it. But yeah, he is a serious talent. He's just one of those, almost like Haaland, you sort of look at him and think maybe he's going to be a bit lumbering and then you think, yeah, sort of nothing he can't do when he's on form and he's impossible to defend against. and yeah he might well be the difference in the final because if England have a weakness it's that centre-back pairing of Cresswell and Crancer which has not quite looked at it particularly in the first third of every game and yeah Germany scored early against them in the groups and we'll find some shells to do it again I think Another player with an excellent name who was in that semi-final Ryan Flamingo Oh nice Yes He's a really decent player won the league with PSV last season he played in centre-mid for the Netherlands but he plays at centre-back for his club.

44:09I think because of injuries maybe, but he's excellent in both. And I think you'll see him play for their top team as well soon. Right. Noah Howe, Ryan Flamingo. What was Viper's name? Marcus Viper? Nelson Viper. Nelson Viper. Woof. Shout out to Millian Manhoff as well, who's also played for the Netherlands. I saw play for Stoke last season and he's kind of archetypal, I suppose, Dutch mercurial winger in that you watch him one day and think he's absolutely brilliant, and then you watch him another, and you can't kind of work out how he's getting in the Stoke team sometimes. But if they can refine that talent, he's got the lot too.

44:46Excellent. Middle name is Dollar. Nice. Nice, JJ. Excellent. Oh, let's talk about some transfers and get on to the Inter-Totally Cup. Wow, we haven't even mentioned that yet, and you're featuring in it, Tom. Yes, I am. We actually recorded this yesterday, so you know what happened, but no spoilers. That's coming up very soon.

45:33and many more. Subscribe now so you never miss an episode. The Talent Transformation Podcast, redefining talent, one conversation at a time.

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47:22This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. Jake Penrow writes in, he says, Reid Duncan's comment about clubs signing players after a good showing against them. Darwin Nunes caused Liverpool all sorts of problems in the Champions League a couple of years ago, which led to Klopp taking a rare stance and overruling sporting director, brackets, presumably all those fellows with laptops, at Liverpool FC. And Klopp insisted they needed to sign him despite his iffy underlying numbers. Looks like Darwin's off this summer and Napoli remains the likeliest destination.

48:00We shall see. Yay, nay on the Darwin-Liverpool interlude? I think Nunez made sense at the time. I think when you watch him play for Benfica, he was always really impressive, but it's very hard to judge, especially forward players that play in Portugal. I think another one they've got is Pavlidis, the Greek striker, who occasionally looks like a really great goal scorer, but I think if you read anything what the fans say about him, he just goes missing for most of the games. but then good goal scorers do that. Nunez, I think, as we all know, is that kind of chaos energy that you can bring on and can make a real difference and I think it's a lot of confidence and just giving them the time to constantly make those same mistakes again and again but the Premier League is so tight that players don't really get that.

48:42They don't really allow for it anymore. I remember Andy Cole at Man United. I used to think he wasn't chaotic at all but he would score one for every three chances that he missed but he got so many chances it was worth it. I don't think Nunez gives you quite the same amount of benefit that you got from someone like Andy Cole. I think he's also, he says a lot about how much a transfer fee makes a difference to public opinion, right? Because I think he's basically a pretty good£35 million striker, or£35 million per forward. That's such a good point, yeah. And he costs double that and more. So that does change the game.

49:13You are expecting someone to hit the ground running in a new country, at a new club, in a new system, because that's what the transfer fee speaks. Fair enough. Now, we've got InterTotally Cup coming up very shortly. So just to fly through the next item or two, Thomas Frank, as we know, has left Brentford for Spurs. Could be quite the exodus following that departure. Looks like Christian Norgard could be moving across to Arsenal, perhaps to offset the imminent departure of Thomas Partey, who's out of contract. Chelsea's goalkeeper Kepa Arasabalaga might also be heading to the Emirates, thanks to that£5 million release clause.

49:52That deal's been pending for a while, but apparently could soon be getting ink on paper. Martin Zubimendi, very much in the same category. Set to be confirmed any day now, they say. Oh, JJ, have you done a video about Martin Zubimendi? I did. I can't remember what I said in it, but I can tell you what I think of Zubimendi. OK, yeah. So I think he'll really help them with, this is quite a tactical term, but with central progression. so when Arsenal build out from the back they usually have to go wide it's interesting because they signed Rice to be that player but he's not as great in those tight spaces on the half turn as maybe you think he's more dynamic in box to box when he plays as a six he's really kind of like an anchor who can drop into the centre back role and help out a little bit there he's not that kind of player but if you have a number six like Partey was very good at this I think he's more of a progressive runner he can carry the ball and spot a pass but Zubimendi is a passer so he's more one of these kind of atypical like Spanish midfielders you'd think like really close and tidy in small spaces but can find the little angles whenever he takes the first touch he creates a new angle for the next pass so if you can get someone who can move in and out with the really tight spaces in the middle it means you don't have to draw players like Rice and Odegaard deeper which then stops you being more threatening higher up the pitch so you end up with your attackers too deep so you're progressing it and it always ends up having to go wide around the block and then by the time you get to the final third because you've gone wide the other team can get back and defend it and that's when you end up with that horseshoe thing that Arsenal always do.

51:19So Zubimendi might actually help them be more fun with their attacking play, especially from build-up, because he can help break lines with clever passes. He loves a long pass as well, which I think Arsenal should do more of because I like long passes. Diagnols. Diagnols is the way forward. That sounds really promising. Of course, the whole Premier League title chase looks like it's going to ramp up considerably next season. Man City have spent a bundle and Liverpool have two. Will Arsenal be in that title picture? we shall see. Newcastle, meanwhile, are bidding to buy Forrest Anthony Alanga. Hang on, isn't that a story from last summer, Daniel?

51:51It is, and their negotiation strategy appears to be we offer on the final day of the transfer window last summer, he'll have a really, really good season. I think six goals and 11 assists in the league from memory, and we'll offer£5 million less this summer, which I mean, Evangelos Maranakis will have absolutely none of that. And you can see why, you know, Clubs are being quoted£70 million for Antoine Semenio. If you've got a proven young, he's only 23, Alanga, if you've got a young Premier League winger at a club who, rightly or wrongly, Evangelos Maranakis will consider to be one of Forrest's competition, there's no way they're going to sell at that price.

52:31I think maybe like£60 million might get it done, but Forrest are in the position of not needing to sell for pretty much the first time since they came up. And they will want to make that squad better rather than worse. So I think at worst, Forrest would want to have someone lined up before they count on at Salingalanga. I see. Maybe Forrest or Newcastle could seek out a player from Lyon because mighty story this in Europe, Tom. I think to many people's surprise that Lyon could get relegated for not having paid their debt story, which we always assume would get resolved before it came to it, hasn't.

53:07So they've actually now been sent down to Ligue 2 for next season. and there is an appeal pending. But unless, what is it, unless they find how much money, that will be confirmed. Is that right? Yes, we don't know how much money they need to find. We don't. But this, yeah, this goes back to November the 15th when the DNCG, French football's financial watchdog, said to Lyon, if you don't find 175 million euros between now and the end of the season, you'll be relegated. And everyone thought, yikes. Good job they've got, you know, six, seven months to sort themselves out. and everyone thought they had sorted themselves out because we know that money's been coming in.

53:44They've just sold Ryan Scherke to Manchester City for 42 million euros. They've got guys like Alexandre Lacazette, Anthony Lopez, Nicola Tagliafico, who had big contracts, have all gone. You know, the shareholders have been putting money in. John Texter, the Lyon owner, is in the process of selling his stake in Crystal Palace to Woody Johnson, the co-owner of the New York Jets. So it feels like money is flooding into the club. But when the bean counters at the DNCG looked at the Lyon accounts, they obviously didn't see evidence of that. And I think that the issue for Texter is that all along, his management of Lyon has been dependent on his ability to move money around between the different clubs in the Eagle football network.

54:27And the DNCG just wants to see the cash. It doesn't want IOUs. It doesn't want letters from creditors or, you know, information about deals that are yet to be done. It just wants to see the money. We don't yet have the detail as to why they came to this decision. At some point in the next couple of days, the DNCG will send a letter to Leon explaining why this sanction has been handed down. Leon then have seven days in which to table appeal, which they will obviously do. and if they can prove to the DNCG that they have the money that they should have, then theoretically they will be allowed to stay in Ligue 1.

55:06But the fact that they've had six, seven months to sort themselves out and haven't been able to doesn't augur very well. And if they do go down, that means Alhans, who got relegated last season, will come back up. That means Strasbourg will replace Lyon in the Europa League and Lens will go into the Conference League. So there'll be all sorts of domino effects. And yeah, if they do go down, it's an absolute earthquake. I mean, this is one of the biggest, biggest football clubs in France. Seven contestative titles back in the Nautilus. Yeah, yeah. And a model of stability. Jean-Michel Aulas became president in 1987, got Lyon promoted two years later.

55:40They've played in the top flight ever since. They've been kind of, you know, they were a top three team, basically from the start of the 2000s all the way up to the end of the 2010s. Aulas sold the club to Texture at the end of 2022. And here we are three years on, and they might be starting life in the second tier. And the anger against Texter that is already emanating from people connected to Lyon has been pretty remarkable. There have been banners all over Lyon City Centre. Texter get out. The fan groups have been putting out statements calling for him to go. Ex-players, ex-coaches have been piling in.

56:18And there is this feeling that he has, to quote something that Sidney Govoo said, former Lyon winger, he's just pulled the wool over people's eyes. is he talks a good game. Oh, we're not going to go down. Oh, there's so much money coming in. Even after the hearing that took place on Tuesday, right before the decision was announced, he was talking about how well it had gone. He'd enjoyed the hearing. He'd really engaged with the process. He felt like, you know, Leon and the DNCG, you know, they were now on good terms. And then like three hours later, they announced the club were getting relegated.

56:44So yeah, difficult to see how he can emerge from this unscathed. It's not, you know, it's, we haven't yet reached the final point of this story because Lyon will appeal and could theoretically overturn their relegation. But as things stand, yeah, they are a Ligue de club. It's huge. I mean, huge for Ligue 1, which needs big clubs. But for the fans of Lyon, as you say, that is, I mean, gutting. I mean, they were in contention for Champions League qualification right the way through last season. And, you know, they had a squad of players that was good enough to achieve that. They ended up, you know, finishing in the Europa League places, got to the Europa League quarterfinals, had that incredible game against Man United at Old Trafford.

57:26So it felt on the pitch, at least, like they were going places. And then all of a sudden this, on top of the fact that a week ago they lost Bernard Lacombe, one of the most emblematic figures in the club's history, former striker, former coach, former sporting director, Orlas' right-hand man. His funeral took place yesterday. and yeah, it's just been a desperately sad week in the club's history. Well, the assumption is that the immediate future involves them selling as many players as possible to get money directly into their accounts. Daniel? I just want to say Brian Byrne of Soccer Cleats 101, absolutely furious that Tom Williams did an American accent for John Texter there and didn't do it for him.

58:09But I mean, that's that I would like that. Hopefully Brian will realise that that is a sign of the esteem in which I hold him. Well, and the seriousness of the topic. Leon going down, I will bust out my Yankee voice. Yes, I will. Okay. Crikey, is that the biggest story in French football? Yes, but there's another one, Tom, and it's, welcome back, Paul Pogba. Tell us more. Yeah, Paul Pogba, who has never played in Ligue 1, having left Le Havre at the age of 16 and gone to Man United and then Juventus and then Man United and then Juventus, has joined Monaco, hasn't played a top-level football match since the 3rd of September 2023 because of injuries and then the doping ban, et cetera, et cetera.

58:49And now he's back. He signed a two-year deal at Monaco who were trying to add a bit of experience to what is quite a young and inexperienced squad. They've also signed Eric Dier from Bayern. Ansu Fati is also due to sign as well. And yeah, Pogba back in Liga. I think being in Monaco, which is one of the sleepiest places in the known universe, will probably help because on top of the injuries and the doping ban, there was that extremely traumatic and very murky story involving his brother Florentin, some friends of his who tried to extort him, et cetera, et cetera. So a bit of peace and quiet. And hopefully for him, regular football, get back into the France squad and go to the States next year with France.

59:34Right. And in the meantime, the loveliest training ground in the known world, possibly Monaco is on that cliff overlooking. Wow. They're, of course, in the Champions League, aren't they, Monaco? Yes, they are indeed. All right. One other bit of French news, French adjacent news, Julien Stéphane, the new manager of QPR. Very briefly, Tom, because into totally, why should QPR fans be excited about this appointment? Exciting, up-and-coming young coach, looks very slick, great communicator, tactically flexible, generally has a really big impact whenever he joins a new club and then things kind of tend to slide a little bit.

1:00:12So in the short term, both thumbs up. Yep. There you go. Do QPR do long term? No, I was going to say, if you only do short term management, then the championship is the perfect league for you because the average tenure is about 13 months. Good Lord. Excellent. So much knowledge there, Tom, but we're going to be testing your football know-how very, very shortly in the Intertotally Cup, the ultimate test, many would say. Tom up against another big football brain, another perhaps of JJ's childhood idols, in our second round of our InterTotally. That's next.

1:00:51InterTotally quiz time, everybody. All right, round two. So much excitement last week as Julian Laurent dispatched Benji Laniado in our first game. Let's find out who's going to be a Jocelyn this time.

1:01:15Up first, he's the Totally Football Show's francophilic Welshman, whose chat-up line is, do you speak football? Before giving it the full va-va-boom, it's Tom Williams. Tom Williams, welcome. Old friend to the quiz. Thank you, James. Happy to be back in the quiz arena. Well, it's brave, I think, to see you here again, because you've tasted the pain. You've played the game and you've lost at the final hurdle twice now. I've tasted almost all the pain that the InterTotally Cup can possibly dish out. Have you, though? The first three additions I lost in the first round, and then the last two lost in the final.

1:02:02So, you know, what more hurt can this competition possibly inflict on me? It's a dangerous question to ask, like many of the ones that are coming up. Let's find out the person who's looking to do a bit more damage to you, our contestant two.

1:02:27And his opponent. He's traded football for tennis and banks for backhands. So will these questions leave him scratching his head like that girl in the 1980s Athena poster was scratching her... Ladies and gentlemen, it's Charlie Eccleshire. The boss, Charlie. Indeed. Indeed. Welcome to the show. Let the broken heart stand as the price you've got to pay. Bruce never took part in this competition, but it's almost as if he did. Yeah, I'm hoping to channel some of his spirit, I suppose. I know. Nice. Incredible gig last night, apparently. Is that right? Where did he play? Sebastian. Did he? He got rained off for half an hour.

1:03:05Really? Like a World Club Cup game? Exactly, yeah. Or my beloved tennis. But then came back and just went rogue. Did he go rogue? In what way? Went off set list. No way. Yeah, just had a party. Having seen in his recent iterations The Boss, he's fairly specific. I mean, it's all, there's a lot of ad-libbing, but it's almost like watching a play because you know that every interaction has been rehearsed and refined and honed over countless shows. But this time he actually broke with all of that and just let rip. That's exciting. But that's such a departure as well, James, because what you're describing, he used to be so improvisational.

1:03:45People would have signs and he'd take requests and it was all kind of freeform. But the last few years he's gone down more the, this is going to be my set list. It's almost like a Bruce Springsteen review, you know. Exactly. Anyway, oh, the quiz, that's right. You were runner-up, Charlie, in 2022, just before Tom began his run of disastrous finals. Disastrous is a bit harsh, James, but sure. Yeah, I think I had a question to win it that I absolutely should have won it with, and I'm not going to lie, it hurt. It took a long time to get over. How are you feeling now? I'm ready to be hurt again. Are you?

1:04:19All right, well, let's get it on. The winner of today's event will be facing Julian Rons in our semi-final. As I mentioned, he got Benji knocked out last week. So question one then, if you're ready, comes to you, Tom Williams.

1:04:39Question one. Which Serie A club is Patrick Vieira currently manager of? Genoa. Is correct. Charlie, your first question. Which La Liga club is Manuel Pettigrini currently manager of? I feel like he should be in the Saudi Pro League, but he isn't. So I'm going to have to buy that one. I don't know. Osasuna? He's incorrect. Tom, would you like to refresh Charlie's memory? Betis, I think, isn't it? Real Betis, opponents of Chelsea, of course. Of course it is, yeah. That's so stupid. Well, there you go. Let's see if you do better with question two. Charlie, question two. which was the last team that Tony Pulis managed?

1:05:36Wasn't in the Saudi Pro League, I can tell you that much. No, he's not very Saudi Pro League. Oh, that Pellegrini one's so stupid of me. You have to put that behind you. No, I know, yeah. Got to move on. I can't remember him managing after Stokes. because I'm just going to say Stoke City and hope that it was one of those weird Stoke and Dunne situations. Like so many of them have been, but no, I'm afraid not. Tom, do you know? It'd be a bit of a stab in the dark. West Brom? Is incorrect. The answer was Sheffield Wednesday. All right, Charlie, here comes Tom's second question, which could put you two points behind.

1:06:17Tom, which was the last team that Harry Redknapp managed?

1:06:29I mean, it was obviously a while ago. I feel like this should be more obvious to me than it is. Again, it was not in Saudi Arabia.

1:06:47Can I have to hire you, Tom?

1:06:52Was it... Was it QPR? It was not, Tom. It was not QPR. Birmingham City. Birmingham, yeah. Of course. Did you know that, Charlie? Did you? I've completely forgotten that. I did. I've done the classic, would have got Tom's first two questions. Right. That's irrelevant. So off in the way. I've been there. I've been there. Well, only one point in it as we head into question three. Charlie, this to Paul Level. Three teams have won Premier League games 9-0. Can you name those three teams?

1:07:27Leicester. Correct. Manchester United and Liverpool. It's correct. It's correct. Tom, to pull into a one-point lead, who were the two teams involved in the Premier League's highest ever scoring game, which ended 7-4 in 2007? Arsenal and Reading. I believe If only we could give you a half point for that because Riding were involved Yes they were But it was Portsmouth As Charlie of course knew that were their adversaries that day Well if I'm not mistaken that leaves us level on one apiece as we head into a pretty crucial looking question for Tom Argentina China won the 2022 World Cup final on penalties against France.

1:08:20Which other team did they beat on penalties at that tournament?

1:08:34The Netherlands is correct. Charlie, this for you, to keep it level. Name either of the two France players who missed in the 2022 World Cup final penalty shootout. Oh, God.

1:08:55It's funny, when you were asking Tom that question, I was thinking, oh, I'm glad this isn't about that penalty shootout because I don't actually remember who missed them. Well, there are two players who missed, but you only have to name one of them. Yeah, I know, and I think I'm confusing this with his miss, but I'll go Kolo Mawani. It's incorrect. Ah, you missed that really good chance. I know. You did, didn't you? That's what I was thinking of. You could have had Kingsley Coman. Or Tom, can you name the other one? Aurelien Chouameni. Oh, you can, can't you? Well, Tom has a one-point lead. There's only one question to go.

1:09:30Charlie, you need this. Charlie, your question five. Which team did Alvaro Morata join on loan in January 2024?

1:09:43God. Journeyman Alvaro Morata. Just this January, joining a team on loan.

1:10:01This is where the not having covered football for the last season bites you in the ass.

1:10:11Galatasaray? It's correct! Unbelievable! How did you get that, Charlie? Just felt right. Incredible scenes. Extraordinary. You're thinking it was what? Turkish Super League? First club that comes to mind? A little bit. I mean, it feels a bit like they had that date from the beginning. And I must have vaguely have seen it on social media at some point. Well, well done for trusting your feelings. Tom, this to avoid the tiebreaker and book your passage to that hot, hot semifinal with Julian Laurence. Question five. In which country is Memphis Depay currently playing football, club football? Brazil.

1:10:58It's correct. Tom, you're through to the semifinals. I mean, I've been through the ringer once again. We were saying pre-quiz that it is not a particularly enjoyable exercise and even having emerged on the winning side, I can confirm that it is not. Still, you got that hot semi-final with Julian Laurence. Have you two encountered each other in the quiz before? I don't think we've ever quizzed, which feels like a statistical anomaly. But then Charlie E and I had never encountered each other. So, you know, it's all fresh meat this season. Charlie, any thoughts for your adversary? Well, yeah. I mean, I faced off myself against Julien in a semi-final a few years ago.

1:11:41And, you know, he'll make life difficult for you. He's a bit the Atletico Madrid of this quiz. But, yeah, just keep your head, Tom. And, yeah, good luck for the rest of the season. No, well-deserved. Thank you, mate. It's very good of you. Charlie, well done for your performance. Difficult with so much tennis on your plate. but that Galatasaray one will live long in the memory, I'm sure, for so many Intertotally listeners. Yes, I hope so. And while I dwell on Pellegrini and think, you know, answer where he actually managed, not where you think what country he should manage. That's the lesson. Well, maybe next time, eh?

1:12:21Maybe next time. For now, that's where we come to the end of this exciting instalment of the Intertotally Cup.

1:12:30Well Tom 24 hours later how do you feel about that? I mean yeah the dust has settled but I'm still I think my heart rate is still returning to normal when Charlie Eccleshire pulled that Alvaro Morata to Galatasaray Yeah that was huge Top bins in the 90th minute did not see that coming I should mention because of technical issues we had a Club World Cup style weather delay of several hours in between question 2 and question 3 and you held your... I don't know if you did questions in the dressing room just to keep your rhythm, etc. But yeah, congratulations to you. And Julien Laurent is in the semifinal.

1:13:06Oof. Yes, yeah. Bit of a French off, like a real French person against a pretend one. Right. So yeah. I wouldn't call Julien a pretend one. All right then. Excellent. Well, that's very much it. It's been intense. Thank you so much for being with us, listener. And many thanks as well to JJ. Good luck with attack! Tom, everything you're up to. And you too, Daniel. Sorry, lovely to see you again. We will return on Tuesday of next week. Before that, you can catch another edition of Totally Gold, which is basically us repackaging. I don't want to undersell this, but it's us repackaging our nostalgia pods.

1:13:49Back in 2020, when lockdown, there was no football to talk about. All we had to spend our podcasts on was the greatest football seasons ever. So we did. And it's been great fun to listen back to those. So we put them out for you if you want. Monday morning, totally gold. Check it out. That's it for now. Listener, see you soon.

1:14:11You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great football podcasts like this one, including The Athletic FC, and our six dedicated club podcasts, Search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:14:34The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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