France through to the quarter-finals - can England overcome Mexico and join them?

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2:22america football it's totally football show from los angeles and on july the 4th and to our american host we say happy birthday 250 years old looking pretty good one of the breaks

2:38today ollie say can you see broad stripes and bright stars as france beat paraguay 1-0 in philly While in Houston, Morocco's red glare, Jesse's F-bombs bursting in air as the North Africans put Canada out 3-0. Next, Morocco will meet France to talk about Independence Day. We'll discuss that plus more countdown to Sunday at the Azteca. Woohoo! Yep, it's Saturday the 4th of July still for us. Possibly Sunday the 5th for you where you're joining us. But many happy returns, America. Happy 4th of July. Tom Williams and Felipe Cardenas here. with us. Happy 4th of July, James. Thank you so much, Tom.

3:20Happy birthday, America. Yeah. Maybe one or two differences we've had, England and America, over the years. Not forgetting West Scotland and Northern Ireland. Yeah. Them too. But at the end of the day, it's a big happy birthday. Happy 4th of July to you, Felipe. Thank you, thank you. I mean, again, like I said earlier, I couldn't think of anyone else to celebrate the 4th of July, but this crew, the production crew as well, it's been great to be in Los Angeles to everybody. Huge moment. 250th anniversary birthday of this country. It's gone by like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what a magnificent tournament they've been putting on.

3:54Mexico, Canada, but we're here in the States, and it's been incredible. I think there were questions, you know, coming into this tournament. Would the country care enough? And the entire country here in the U.S. is captivated by the tournament. They love the tournament. They love the drama. And the U.S. is playing well. They're still alive, so that means a lot. They are. This was the scene in Philadelphia. significant place of course for the birth of this nation on saturday where france were taking on paraguay on a big pre-game show with the roots philly band of course playing adina menzel doing the uh starstangled banner uh almost as well as i did on the way in and yeah there's the roots it was glorious yeah the roots was a nice addition yeah yeah it was fun excellent excellent well happy fourth of july then to america what followed that performance we'll get on to very very shortly but we'll have a quick run through the results then because France against Paraguay finished very much 1-0 to France in terms of goals 3-0 to France in terms of yellow cards which is kind of extraordinary if you saw the game the earlier match saw Morocco ending Canada's run at this tournament 3-0 we'll get on to that match as well because of course as mentioned Morocco will be facing France next up.

5:14Let's get a quick moment of the day. Philippe. My moment is Jesse Marsh, Canada's head coach, the American head coach, which is quite proper today. One of the most polarizing, I think, managers in global football today. Very outspoken. And today in this 3-0 loss, as you can see there, he didn't want the cameras. And this is a manager that certainly loves the cameras. He won't admit it. He has told everyone that he doesn't care what people think. He didn't use that language. It was a little bit spicier before. But today, a bit of, I think, humble American apple pie, perhaps. After a good 45 minutes, in which I admit Canada really did punch Morocco in the mouth.

5:58The second half was just a completely different tale. Morocco just really stylish, counterattacking football. They read the game well. and in the end one of the quotes that has gone viral from Jesse Marsh is what that he said you know he gave a lot of praise to Canada and what they've accomplished but he said I would rather be us than them pointing to Morocco. Morocco's a great team but I would rather be us. Now not a lot of people thought that was very I don't know cordial if you may but the Canadians love him. The Canadians love their American coach. I guess my take on that is he means he was talking about what they've achieved and the prospects going forward.

6:34The place where they are, the prospects that they have, he would rather be there to enjoy that going forward, I guess, than be an established team already. It's a historic run, honestly. They had never won a point in a World Cup. Look where they are. Tom, your moment of the day. Well, there were pyrotechnics on the pitch pre-match in the France-Paraguay game. And there were plenty of pyrotechnics on the pitch during the game itself, largely thanks to Paraguay's players. renowned for being paragons of fair play and sportsmanship. And there was a very entertaining amount of needle in this game the whole way through.

7:13France went ahead with 20 minutes to go, Kylian Mbappé penalty. And I was very intrigued as to what would happen at the final whistle. I was convinced that the expected beef at that point would shoot through the roof. As it happened, there weren't any unsavory scenes, although Kylian Mbappé did very pointedly ignore the outstretched hand proffered to him by Paraguay goalkeeper Orlando Hill in favour of just kind of celebrating with the France fans. You can kind of understand where his mind probably was at that point, because France had had to put up with multiple provocations. A little bit small time not to do the easy thing and just shake the guy's hand and kind of claim the moral victory.

7:53Interestingly, Didier Deschamps, after the game, said that as the minutes were ticking down towards the final whistle, he asked all of his biggest substitutes, as in physically biggest substitutes, to get onto the pitch as quickly as possible at the full-time whistle, just to make sure that Mbappe didn't get caught up in anything, which I think is an indication of how France and their coaching staff were feeling at that moment. How charged the atmosphere was. Yeah, I mean, remarkable that Paraguay emerged from the game with zero yellow cards, and that France somehow picked up three. But I think in the main, France responded quite well to the provocation.

8:27And it's the kind of game that, you know, when you manage to get through it unscathed, as France have done, only reinforces the belief within the squad that they can go all the way. OK. Goalkeeper wasn't the only heel on that team. It was a highly charged and heated game, not least because it took place in, what, 38 degrees? The temperature's there in Philadelphia. So well done for France for getting through it. We'll get on to that match very, very shortly. A message here from Hustle Bones. It says, my dog got skunked directly in the face last night on her birthday and as i was scrubbing her with peroxide and baking soda useful tip i thought of your happy fourth says hustle bones best wishes to your dog and to you hustle bones we had a sighting unconfirmed yesterday producer charlie got very animated he's having a lie down today because he said he saw two skunks not one but too so our hypothesis is that it was our old pal clarence sprayed off who we've not seen for a couple of weeks right and perhaps a lady friend well i i recall pepe lepeau was a very amorous beast and perhaps that's a a trademark of our stripy friends anyway i'm hoping we can bring you visual evidence but if charlie producer charlie said it that's good enough for me Let's get on to the football at the World Cup on this day 24 and Paraguay, France.

9:55France beat Paraguay 1-0 on Saturday afternoon in Philadelphia. You've detailed some of the aggression here and you forecast some of the tactics that Paraguay would be employing. It was a game which France eventually broke the deadlock in with a penalty 70 minutes in. And Paraguay themselves didn't have a shot on target until the 89th minute. What did you make of the performance, Felipe? Unsurprising, you know, from the Paraguay side. And I think it was impressive how France handled it, honestly. But yes, it was a typical of what we discussed last night. You know, this was part of the DNA of Paraguay.

10:32They knew that they had to tap into it. They had not done that in some stages of the World Cup, namely against the United States. And even Gustavo Alfaro, the manager, said that we need to dig deep and play like Paraguay. And this is part of it. It is a – you have to have a strong head to play against some of these teams from South America. As a Colombian who watches these games against Uruguay and Paraguay in particular, this is a normal type of match where gamesmanship sometimes overshadows the football. And they hope that you get involved and that maybe you're the second one to hit or punch or push and you get the yellow.

11:10The stat that you said that no Paraguayans, I mean, especially Matias Galarza, who will go down perhaps as one of the villains of the World Cup, hitting players off the ball, tackling players, faking injuries. Like no yellow card for him is pretty impressive. But France again walks away with the victory. Okay. What did Mbappe say post-game, Tom? Mbappe had some quite colorful remarks after the game. He said, we showed today that we're not just a team who can play attacking football. If we have to put our hands in the s***, we will put our hands in the s***. Okay. I don't think he was referring to the opposition as s***, just for clarity.

11:48I think it was more figurative expression. We'll knuckle down. We'll knuckle down. We can go toe-to-toe. Okay. And that was impressive because even though, as you say, USA had had a comfortable victory against this team, that was a very different tactical approach. What exactly were they doing, apart from trying to earn a yellow card for the opposition? Well, they switched to a back five. They played with a back four against Germany. Nominally, it was a 5-3-2, with Julio Enciso and Miguel Almiron as the two most advanced players. But out of possession, which was basically the game state that they spent about 80 % of their time in, Almiron dropped in on the right-hand side.

12:26And they just swamped the centre of the pitch. And Michael Alisse had by far his most disappointing game of the tournament so far. The guy who everything has been going through for France just couldn't really get in the game at all. And that was credit to the way that Paraguay just swarmed players around him. The fact of having a wing-back and a wide attacking player on each side of the pitch meant they could double up in wide areas as well. So Dembele struggled to get into the game. Bradley Bacola struggled to get into the game. And it was only really when Desiree Dui came on for Bacolat with about half an hour to go that France started to make inroads.

13:00And it was Dui who won the penalty. It could have succeeded for them as well, Philippe Paraguay. They had chances at the end. Yeah, they had chances. They were in the game. It was going as planned, honestly. And some of the gamesmanship that we saw, I'll give credit to Paraguay. No one covered their mouth this time. But there's plenty of talking if you're watching the game. Some from the French. Mbappé, for example, with some choice words. Yeah, and there were times where the French players fell into that game, into that trap. And it really, I felt like it just lifted the energy in that game. And it gave the Paraguayan crowd that were there a lot of, I think, some hope.

13:35I mean, they're just hoping, I think, in the end to get perhaps to get to penalties and really do the same thing that they did against Germany. But, you know, Gustavo Faro, the manager, I think he was one of the most animated people on the bench. And that is another tactic. That is a tactic to get in the mind of the referee as well. Every foul is a complete betrayal to the Paraguayans, and it was consistent. It was honestly impressive that they never stopped until the 90th minute looking for ways to try to get into the heads of the French players, trying to scuff the penalty spot, standing around Dembele, which Dembele and Mbappe, a great plan there.

14:10Keep Dembele holding the ball, let him take all the abuse, and then hand the ball to your captain who just coolly put it away, as we expected him to do. Okay, that's 19. I suspect we might not see this referee again at this tournament you weren't convinced by his performance we really enjoyed his announcement of the penalty he's from Uzbekistan he has a very thick quite Russian sounding accent which sounded magnificent and for once you could actually hear what he was saying over the ambient noise in the stadium but to have let Paraguay get away with everything they got away with the only member of their delegation who got a booking was their assistant coach Carlos Gonzalez so yeah might be the last time we see him on the pitch Well, he did give a penalty for France.

14:51It would have been hard not to after the tackle on Douai. Kylian Mbappé stepped up and converted. It's now 19 World Cup goals, one behind Leo Messi's all-time tally. Level with him for this tournament with six. For France, it's four wins out of four. They go through to the quarterfinal with Morocco. How much will that have taken out of them, that performance in those conditions, do you think? I mean, physically, it would have taken a lot out of them. But they managed to avoid extra time and penalties. Dachon didn't make too many substitutions. I think he wanted almost to test this group of players and give them an opportunity to see out that kind of situation, which is so beneficial, particularly for a team who've won all their other games at this tournament so comfortably.

15:35I think they'll actually gain more from it in a psychological sense because they've blown everyone out of the water prior to today and today they really had to dig deep, grind it out, resist the provocation, find a way of making a breakthrough. They created very few chances, but we've seen big teams struggle. England struggled against DR Congo, Argentina against Cape Verde, Germany got knocked out by Paraguay. So I think in the main, it's something that will actually increase the sense that they have what it takes to go on and win the tournament. Yeah, loads of personality. Next opponent for France in those quarterfinals are Morocco, who ended Canada's World Cup run earlier on Saturday, 3-0.

16:17Philippe, you touched on the fact that Canada were the better side in the first half but had their usual issues with converting their chances and thus it was Morocco who stepped up in the second 45 minutes. Azzedine Onahi got the first one in the 50th minute. He doubled the team's lead about 10 minutes from time. And then Sufjan Rahimi made a third goal. His presence was kind of significant because had he come on for he came off for Saibari he's been Morocco's kind of man of the tournament so far so Saibari went off that was the bad news for Morocco he had his jersey over his head as he left the field which suggests it might not be something that he's going to be returning from in a matter of days we'll talk about Morocco in a second or two but just to touch again on Canada a team that finished penultimate in the last World Cup they took part in came into this I don't know how many people had high hopes for them but they got their first point And then they got their first win and then they got their first knockout win.

17:17And Josh Cloak was saying on the show yesterday, what a huge impact the tournament, even if it ends here, which it has, has had on Canadian soccer going forward. A very positive impression, I think, for Canada. They're the first co-host to go out, but certainly nothing to be ashamed of. It's not a footballing country. It simply is not. And the sport is growing. And, you know, I think Jesse Marsh, the American coach, understood the responsibility that he had to show the world that this is a country that can play football, that cares about the sport, that has players. I still think, you know, they put up a lot of fight in these games.

17:52They are a limited side technically. And I think that ultimately was what knocked them out today. Their tactics today, we talk about France walking away from a difficult physical match. Same thing for Morocco. They came out a bit unscathed after being really manhandled physically in the first 45 minutes. That was the game plan for Canada. Kick, force, press, frustrate. And Morocco looked like a team that was a bit stunned. They liked to look good on the ball and put their foot on the ball and look around. They had no time. And so the adjustment in the second half, I think, for Morocco was impressive.

18:27to hold their lines and counter quickly. The free kick goal also, which broke the deadlock, was obviously right out of the laboratory and just so well executed, which is typical of Morocco. How did it happen? From the right channel, which I think you typically expect a service into the box. And you could see the Moroccan players pushing into the six-yard box, taking their markers with them, leaving the dragging runner coming in and just a simple finish. I mean, it looks simple, but obviously he had to hit it well into the corner. And it really broke the hearts and the backs of Canada. You saw the shot of Jesse Marsh right there on the bench, really crestfallen, looking at his watch, almost thinking like the time is ticking on our Cinderella story.

19:09That was the 50th minute. So there was a bunch of game time still to go. A lot of Canada supporters would have been looking to the bench to see if Alphonso Davis was maybe coming on. However, he didn't feature at all in the game. Later on, Jesse Marsh said that he'd had an MRI scan the previous day and he didn't feel confident about his fitness. But that's been one of the big questions post-game, to the extent that there are recriminations for Canadian fans about going out to one of the World Cup semi-finalists last time around. That, I think, is one of them. What about Morocco then? They go into this game with France without the players being their star so far this tournament.

19:49What are their chances, do you think, Tom? Well, this is obviously a rematch. of the semi-final at the 2022 World Cup, which was a really interesting game because the France team were a much more minimalist affair than they are these days. They scored an early goal, then they kind of sat off and then they scored a late goal right at the end. And Morocco came away from the game feeling really frustrated. Both teams have evolved quite a lot since. I think there's probably only going to be three or four starting players on each side who are both featured from the start in that game in 2022. But Morocco have picked up so much additional experience and know-how in the years since.

20:27And I think the fact that France are now this much more attacking side might suit Morocco. We saw that in the first half today against Canada. They're quite happy to sit back and defend. And with players like Ashraf Hakimi in particular, but also Brahim Diaz, they're so well suited to playing on the counter-attack. So I think the fact that France have got this slightly different style of play might actually suit Morocco quite well. I was going to ask, if Canada had been able to nullify Morocco in the first 45 minutes, what on earth are France going to do to them? But then I guess, I mean, Canada got on top of Morocco by attacking them.

21:05The problem Canada had was they didn't have anyone to finish their chances. They had one fantastic chance early on. Tani Oluwasei, this beautiful turn to get away from Rodo and Halal, kind of scuffed his shot a little bit and Bono saved it. That was practically the only chance of note that they created in the first half. And as a consequence, Morocco survive, clear their heads at halftime, and then get the first goal in the second half, which, as Felipe said, changed the game completely. If France attacked Morocco in the same sustained way that Canada did, you would have thought they will score.

21:37So that will be the challenge. I don't think Morocco will be able to get away with being dominated to quite the same extent against France. Something that's interesting about Morocco, and I want to give credit to Mohamed Kwabi, the manager. This is the U-20 manager before this World Cup who took them to the U-20 World Cup Final one, defeating Argentina. And there were a lot of questions like, could he, is how effective is his style going to be, which is more ball playing style, possession, slick football, as opposed to the counterattacking Moroccan team that reached the semifinal. Credit to him, who was not as dogmatic perhaps today, in accepting that he was not going to be able to play like that against Canada.

22:14And that was the adjustment in the second half. And so perhaps there was a bit of memory from the previous World Cup from these players from Morocco, knowing that we do have this extra gear, this extra tactic we can play in the counter. And that'll serve them well heading into this game against France. The semi-final last time, not the only thing which adds spice to this upcoming quarterfinal, Tom, is also the fact that it's France against Morocco. Would that be a significant thing for the Morocco team particularly? I mean I wouldn't have thought it's something that the players will necessarily think about but there's an awful lot of France born players in that squad you know players who were born in France who grow up in France and you know and who are dual nationals and I think if that's your background you learn to live with those two hats on your head so I think the thought of coming up against France it will be kind of peculiar for them I wouldn't have thought it would be necessarily a motivating factor but you know who knows well there'll be loads of other motivations of course not least the chance to reach a world cup semi-final well there you go anyway that's the first of our quarterfinal lineups from morocco against france we'll have another one determined tomorrow sunday when brazil take on norway the winner of which will take on whoever comes out of mexico england we'll get on to those next One second, you're enjoying your day off.

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25:49Sunday fixtures in the World Cup. Brazil take on Norway. That's in New Jersey. Mexico are up against England. Where's that one being played again? Just a small little stadium called the Azteca. 40 years on from a little game. Argentina, England in the World Cup quarterfinal 1986. Wow. All right. Well, we're incredibly excited about this fixture. Perhaps you are too. Jack Pickbrook has been following England through this tournament for the Athletic. He's already down in Mexico City for the game. and a little bit earlier on we spoke with him jack thank you so much for joining us how are you have mexican journalists been letting off fireworks outside your hotel no mexican journalists letting off fireworks outside my hotel i'm afraid um i resisted the temptation this morning to go for a run to see how the attitude would affect me i think i'm maybe the only british journalist not to have done so uh in mexican on you i went for a walk instead it's very nice.

26:51That's good. So as long as England keep it nice and calm come Sunday, they should be okay. We talked with Jack Lang earlier in the week about the factors in Mexico's favour, but based on what you've seen so far of England, what's your take on their potential Sunday? Well, it's been a strange tournament so far. I think that England have probably performed at about par. I think they're very reliant on their best players, like most good teams are. They're they're completely carried in an attacking sense by Kane and Bellingham, especially because their other good attacking players are injured or not really at their best.

27:27You know, Saka is not at his best. Rice is not at his best. My worry for England is that even though they've only conceded three goals in four games, they have looked so open against the counter-attack. The defence has been a bit of a mess. And when I watched Mexico rip Ecuador to pieces the other day, I just thought I wouldn't want those players running at the England defence, or at least the England defence that we saw, particularly in the first half against Democratic Republic of Congo. So that is, with my England hat on, that is my worry for this game. Okay. Certainly the right side looked as open as an English pub at 4am.

28:04Who would you have to counter the lightning pace of Julian Quinonez? well the strange thing is that i think jed spence is very good one against one against a quick winger but i think he looks so lost at times in the in the dr congo game that i i think the safer option and i don't think tukul will do this but i think the safer option would be to move esri across the right back and bring back john stones i think it's a bit odd that we've only seen stones once from the start of this tournament, which was in the first game against Croatia. But I think a lot will also depend on the fitness of Rhys James and Jarell Kwanza, both of whom have started it right back, both of whom I think, I mean, James is certainly a specialist right back, but they've obviously both had injuries, Rhys James, hamstring, Jarell Kwanza, ankle, which meant they weren't able to play against DR Congo.

28:57So I don't know, like it's, I think this is the biggest headache that Tuchel has coming into this game. and he's not really been able to settle on a right back in the last few games. What about the issues over Declan Rice's fitness, Jack? Well, I don't think Rice has really looked right over the course of this tournament so far. It's just, I mean, we're so used to seeing kind of rampaging Rice, covering every blade of grass for Arsenal and for England. And I think that the way that Tuchel wanted to play at this World Cup was very reliant on Rice being able to perform at maximum physical capacity.

29:31but he's clearly struggling with this nerve pain in his hamstring which he's talked about and Tuchel's talked about he's not injured in the sense that he can play there's nothing stopping him from getting him onto the pitch but he just doesn't look 100 % to me and I think that not being able to get Rice at full blast does slightly unbalance the England team I think Particularly in such a testing physical environment as Sunday's game played at altitude, etc. And so on. Some positive things for England. I read that they have created more chances in this tournament than any other team, even though the results haven't been post-Croatia particularly convincing.

30:14Also, could we add in the strength of the bench, which I think a lot of teams at this tournament would be very jealous of? Yeah, I mean, you're right. The chance creation is very impressive, particularly, I mean, the second half against Croatia, was one of the best performances I've ever seen from an England team in a major tournament, just in terms of attacking with quality and intensity and creating chance after chance. That is not how tournament football usually goes. And even though they scraped it in the end, there were moments in the DR Congo game where I thought England got close to that.

30:47They did create a lot of chances. On another day, they could have won that game 4-5-1. So I think I'm not too worried about chance creation. And you're right, they do have depth. on the bench you know they will always have well they'll always have two out of Saka, Maduweki, Rashford and Gordon to call upon so they can always change the game like that plus Watkins and Tony and players we haven't seen and Rodgers and then players like Maynou and Henderson who we haven't seen too much of so there is there is some depth there I think that what I'm worried I think my bigger issue actually is the fact that lots of players who ideally would be in the starting 11 are not at 100%.

31:28So I think Kane and Bellingham are playing fantastically well, but Rice, Stones, James and Saka, I think all for various different reasons, not at 100%. And those are the players I think England really need to, so it's not just Kane and Bellingham who have to dig them out every time. What do you think is going to happen on Sunday, Jack? Well, I think that if England, my big worry from an English perspective is the first, quarter of the game basically because England were utterly abysmal in the first quarter against DR Congo and Atlanta and Mexico were sensational in the first quarter against Ecuador in their last 32 game and if England if England start badly I think there's a chance they could lose the game early on but if England can dig in and and just and kind of keep Mexico at bay and maybe kind of frustrate the crowd a bit then I think that there's I think they can build a platform from which England's superior individual quality will tell.

32:26But they're going to have to work incredibly hard to get to that point. I think the longer... If England can just keep it 0-0 for a while, I think eventually Kane and Bellingham will come up with something because they're world-class players. And frankly, I think they're better than any individual players that Mexico have got. But I do worry that if Mexico... If Mexico play at full physical intensity, then I think that England's... I think that England's sloppiness and their sort of lack of defensive structure could really be the undoing of them, particularly in the first half. Jack Pitt-Brooke.

32:58Certainly sounds like fun. You've recently returned from Mexico City, Felipe. Thomas Tuchel's reaction, what's that been like? Today was interesting. There were shots of him coming out of the England team hotel and wanting to take a walk in Mexico City. And at one point, he saw that there were so many Mexican fans waiting to see the England players, not hostile at all, just wanting to get a glimpse of England, that at first it looked like he was a little bit nervous about that interaction, and he turned around and walked back in. And then at another point, he came back again and signed jerseys, signed autographs.

33:31The fans were really loving that close contact with Thomas Tuchel. So I think it might have been a way for him to get close to the fans and try to, I think, decrease what is considered a bit of a hostile environment for England right now. Do you think that the environment there that people have painted an overly dramatic picture what it's going to be like for England? Perhaps. I think, you know, from what I've seen at the Azteca, it is hostile, but not in an unsportsmanlike manner. It is just like 80 ,000 plus people completely behind their team and making sure that the opposition knows that you're not wanted.

34:05You're going to lose. We're going to make it difficult for you. The fans around Mexico are just really happy that they're in this stage, that they're facing perhaps one of the probably the most important match for their men's national team at a World Cup. the chance to advance past the quarterfinals, to get to the quarterfinal, and defeat a world power, a World Cup contender in England. So just so much hype around this game right now. And what Jack was mentioning about their fast starts, Mexico, you can confirm. Yes, yeah. I mean, Ecuador was that team that I think Mexicans feared because they can play at altitude.

34:38They understand that type of competition. And they had no idea how to really address the energy that Mexico came out with. Now, the way to neutralize that, which is something that South Africa did, we're talking about South Africa. But they didn't press. They didn't do a lot. They stood back. And Javier Aguirre has been on the record saying that he prefers a chaotic game. It gets his team up for it. And they can play quickly and they can counter. If you sit and make them work the ball around, they get a bit ponderous. And Ecuador fell into a trap, tried to press them, and it just fell into the hands of the Mexicans.

35:13So it'll be interesting to see how England approaches that part of the game. OK, Mexico yet to concede a goal in this tournament. Tom, we saw England's game against Congo together and were pretty down on England, I think, as a result. But on reflection now, a few days on, do you think the important thing of that was that England were kind of 15 minutes away from a disastrous exit? Or that England kept their spirits up and have a player like Harry Kane, a world-class talent, who can resolve games like that? Yeah, that England found a way. I mean, I think with the hindsight we now have from watching Argentina struggle against Cape Verde, of watching France have to work so hard to break down Paraguay today, you realise that having to grind out a result is just something that happens to every team that has ambitions of winning a big tournament.

36:01I don't think any team in history has ever just cruised their way to World Cup glory. There is always a point when you're a goal down, you're fighting for an equaliser, when you're tested. England would have preferred not to have been tested against Dior Congo, but they were. And because they've got a fantastic player in Harry Kane, options off the bench like Anthony Gordon, who came on and made an impact, they got through that test. And it is the kind of thing that increases the belief levels. I mean, similar to what we were saying about France before, teams never worry unduly when they've won matches, I don't think.

36:33If you've had to kind of grind it out and you've still done it, that teaches you you can do it again. you know already that if everything clicks and everyone's on form you can beat teams you don't always know that you can do that when you're not at your best England did that against the El Congo and so that will you know that will give them belief going into the Mexico game but yeah I mean it's going to be a hell of a test and I yeah it just I mean we've said this before but it just feels proper World Cup it does quickly about Kane when I was in Mexico City before I left I was walking around the streets talking to the fans None of the fans that I spoke to were overly impressed with the fact that they won their first knockout game since 1986.

37:13It's getting to the quarterfinal that means everything to them. And one gentleman that was selling panini cards at a stand that he owns, he was shuffling them like a casino dealer when I walked up to him. And we talked about Mexico, and he was very, very confident about Mexico reaching the semifinals even. And at one point, he described England as being a one-man team. He said they just have Harry Kane. The Harry Kane team. Where have we heard that before? What's going to happen on Sunday, Felipe? Gosh, I think if Mexico doesn't deviate from their plan, because I think they did that after South Africa, he got defensive against Korea.

37:49If he stays with this style of play, they have a chance. I really do think they have a chance to take this game from England and knock them out. Tom? Score, draw, extra time, penalties. Oh, my goodness. And England always went on penalties, so that'll be fine. Okay. Rally caps, lucky socks, never stepping on the foul line. Baseball is full of superstitions we hope give us an edge. But let's be honest, most of it's just luck. That's how I used to feel about hair growth products, until I found Nutrafol, the official hair growth partner of Major League Baseball. It's physician-formulated, clinically tested, and recommended by dermatologists.

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40:20Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install? Done well. Deck upgrades? Done well. Electrical upgrade? Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com. All right, well, whoever goes through will be taking on the winner of the game that's taking place earlier on on Sunday in New Jersey as Brazil take on Norway.

41:04Crikey. Brazil, Norway, the only country that they've never beaten in international competition. Four times they've met, Brazil have never beaten the Norwegians. Will they this time? Well, joining us now on the line, it's only Natalie Giedra. How are you guys? Always great to talk to you. How are you? Well, that's very kind of you. we're well and happy 4th happy 4th Natalie happy 4th yes happy 4th everyone now big game coming up on Sunday I see the Brazilian papers seem pretty concerned about Norway here's Ostatio de São Paulo with the caption on this was rowing towards Brazil which I mean yeah it's quite a way isn't it and this is the Vikings are arriving so how concerned are folks back in brazil about norway concerned uh and very respectful especially you know with all the haaland conversations uh and and we know they have other talents but it's been a lot about haaland of course because of his goal scoring at the tournament but i think overall in this tournament brazilians have been concerned more concerned about their opponents that we've seen before.

42:27Because they're still trying to trust more the team. They know this Brazilian side is not the finishing product. Ancelotti is very open about it. He talks about the team improving during the tournament. So there isn't as much noise around Brazil as there's been in other tournaments. I think it's a good thing because I think in the past, Brazil really struggled with the amount of noise and everything that everyone always expects from Brazil. They always arrive at World Cups with this expectation of they either need to win playing well or it's not the Brazil that we're used to. And I know players struggle with that.

43:06So the fact that people are talking less about Brazil and that everyone's being so respectful with the opponents, they were like that with Japan and now with Norway as well. I think it's a good thing, actually. Okay. Second half against Japan. was the best 45 minutes that we've had from Brazil at this tournament? Probably, yes. No, it's funny because Ancelotti gave his press conference today and he rated all Brazil's performances in the World Cup. So he gave a five to the first game against Morocco and then a six and a half against Haiti, second game, a seven against Scotland. And he said, because we were happy after the game, we gave a seven and a half for the performance against Japan.

43:51So I think that the main thing is Brazil's growing into the tournament. They are clearly improving their levels of performance. And we knew that that was necessary for Brazil to, you know, progress in the competition and be competitive against other teams, you know. So I think now, especially after the Japan win, people are starting to believe more that Brazil can have a good run. And it was a massive confidence boost. When I spoke to players after the Japan game, they made it very clear. And even amongst the fans, the Brazilians, they are feeling more confident, especially seeing big sides struggling a little bit.

44:31And, you know, see Argentina, who might be, if everything goes well, might be Brazil's opponent in the semifinal. But so many things still have to happen, you know. So it's not, they're not the same levels of confidence as they were before. but the confidence is growing with the performances from the team. Understood. Japan, a win then, but Japan don't have a player like Erling Haaland. What do they make of the Norwegian there in Brazil? Because he does seem in many ways the least Brazilian player possible. Everything's a first-time finish for him. Yes, I think there's a lot of confidence, especially in some of the players' knowledge about him, players who face him, and especially because we're going to get another Gabriel versus Haaland, which is always a good matchup.

45:24And Gabriel knows how to handle him well. He showed at times, and it's been back and forth between them. So it's always entertaining. Whenever we have Gabriel versus Haaland, it's always entertaining. And this is a key thing, because if you're facing one of the best strikers in the world, you need a defense that can deal with the threatens that that he can bring. And Marquinhos has been doing a really good tournament. We're talking about Gabriel, but Marquinhos has been performing really well. I think the main concern, Jimbo, is that Paquetá left the pitch halftime against Japan injured. And he worked really well in that setup.

46:03Ancelotti himself said that Brazil doesn't have another player like Paquetá with his features. So no one really knows what he's going to do. He can play Danilo, more defensive alternative, but also he can play Gabriel Martinelli, which is being reported as the most likely. But Martinelli is a very offensive choice and it's a very different characteristic. And you can always play Henrik, who played 45 minutes against Japan. I think he's more of the outsider on this run. I think it's more between Danilo and Martinelli Martinelli and then it will depend on on Ancelotti's game plan against Norway.

46:46Okay there were lots of pictures of Rafinha looking quite relaxed and smiling in training is there better news about his potential involvement? There is better news yes so he he had a hamstring injury in the second game against Haiti and he's been recovering well Ancelotti said that he might have a few minutes but he should be available so I think he he can use Rafinha and he said everyone's really happy with his progress. I'm not sure if it's a tough game, if these are tough circumstances, if he would use Rafinha or if he would save him for a potential possible quarterfinals game, but he's getting fitter and he's going to be available for the first time, which is great news.

47:30Okay, Friday. Natalie was at Argentina against Cape Verde, weren't you, Natalie? Yes, I was. I was. Quite something, yeah. Honestly, after that first, the first half was just so straightforward for Argentina. I couldn't believe everything that happened afterwards. But it was a really nice story to follow. I did Uruguay Cup Cape Verde. And then I did Argentina Cape Verde. Spoke to Bozinha. Yeah. After a stunning performance. I thought it was so sweet. At the end of one of his answers, he said, no, I just want to say that my teammates should be playing for bigger leagues. because he's 40, but he's advocating for his teammates to get good contracts.

48:15It can be a World Cup that is life-changing for a lot of them, but the atmosphere was second to none. And Brazil really embraced Cape Verde, especially against Argentina. I was talking to friends of mine back in Brazil, and they were telling me that it sounded like a Brazil game, like people gathered around TVs and bars. and the sound, like everyone shouting on the streets. It was really funny. But yeah, it was such a nice story. That is what the World Cup is all about. Yeah, it really is. It truly is. Well, yeah, it was a shame to see them go, but we're looking forward to seeing what Brazil and Norway come up with on Sunday.

48:54Natalie, thank you so much for being with us today. Enjoy the rest of your fourths, and we'll catch up with you again soon. Yes, definitely. Thank you, guys. Always a pleasure. Natalie Jetra, Norway, with a big game. They rested all their players for that final group game, though. So they'll be a little bit fresher. What do you think, Felipe? What's going to happen? I think everyone is still accepting Brazil is this Brazil, this version of Brazil, the team that may not win playing beautiful football. You know, no jogo bonito, but results. Maybe they go down, maybe they struggle, but they have the man on the touchline in Carlo Ancelotti that can just find the right formula.

49:33So I struggle to think that they won't be the aggressor, the five-time world champions against a team like Norway. If Holland is that much of a threat, how far back do they sit? What does that change for Brazil? I agree with Natalie. I think that I've always said from the very beginning, Brazil, I think, will grow into this tournament. And I think they have. It hasn't been pretty, but they've done so. And I think they are still a force to be reckoned with. Okay. Who would you rather have? You were picking a World Cup team. Who would you rather have as your striker? Harland or Kane, Tom? Ooh. That's a bit left field.

50:12I mean, as a purist. You are. You're two goals down with 15 minutes to go. Who are you calling from the bench? Harland or Kane? I was going to say as a purist, I'd go Kane just because you get the full package. But then, you know, he's... Oh, dropping deep. Pretty clutch as well, as he showed against Dior Congo. You're going Kane, aren't you? Probably just about Kane. Wow. But if I was an opposition defender, the thought of Haaland bearing down upon me is a more frightening one than the thought of Kane. But give early Haaland credit. Coming into this first ever World Cup, I think there were probably questions.

50:46Is he going to be the same prolific goal scorer that we see every Sunday in the Premier League? And he's done it. He's had game winners. He's been very good for his national team in his first World Cup. So credit to him. He's the danger man, without a doubt. he's scored in 13 competitive matches in a row for Norway will it be 14 in a row on Sunday what's going to happen we don't know but in 24 hours time we'll be back post Norway against Brazil and post Mexico England and hopefully you'll be joining us for that for now though that's the end of our show so many thanks to Tom and Felipe to Natalie and Jack Pitbrook earlier on to our production crew and to you for being with us we'll see you in a day's time for now it's goodbye

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