Germany lose on penalties! Plus Brazil’s brilliant comeback

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2:02Shootout, boot out, German disaster, after penalty over bar and god-awful decision from VAR. Netherlands, you too, says Bono, as Morocco do the Dutch. We salute Paraguay in paradise, or Philly at least, for the last 16, and Morocco too. and Brazil, who despite Suzuki's good handling, drive Japan to a swift exit. Monday night, late Monday night in LA. Tuesday morning, round your way very probably to busy totally at the World Cup today. We've got Raphael Honigstein on the way. We've got Natalie Jedra as well. And here in our LA ranch, we've got Tom Williams and Laurie Whitwell. Hi to you both. Hello, James.

2:43Yes. Keeping busy, Laurie? Well, I mean, that day of football kept me very busy, kept me very attuned. Yeah, no, been good. Been a good week. What a day. This is the day. This was the day. This was the day. This was the World Cup. Yeah. World Cup. That stuff got real. Yeah. I think we're still getting our breath back, still getting our head round here. We're racing this show out, of course, to catch the early birds on a Tuesday morning. Two penalty shootouts. A lot of football played. a lot of penalties missed. So many storylines. Paraguay, everyone's been given the day off. Tuesday off, there we go.

3:23There's the official communique. This is the second nation to get the day off following a victory at the World Cup. And in both occasions, it was against Germany. What does that mean? They're doing it right, I think. Certainly are. Love your shirt before we go any further, Tom. From our friends at eBay. Nice. representing Les Bleus ahead of their round of 32 clash tomorrow. With Sweden. With Sweden. Very nice, very nice. We've got an awful lot to talk about. We've got a lovely lot to talk about it with. Let's just check on the results. On Monday early, Brazil came from a goal down to beat Japan 2-1, and we thought, that's pretty dramatic.

4:05But then, shock in Boston as Paraguay put out Germany 4-3 on Elfmeisterscheisen. A penalty shootout, as you know. Netherlands then got knocked out by Morocco, who did a much better job of this penalty shootout than the last one. Crikey. We'll get on to all of that very shortly. What, dare I ask, was your moment of the day, Tom, from all of that? Well, after a moment of such incredible drama, I am somewhat absurdly going to pick a nutmeg that had no material impact on the game in which it occurred. But it was pulled off by Vinicius Junior in Brazil's game against Japan. Brazila just equalised, a pass gets fizzed out to Vinny Junior on the left wing.

4:50And with his first touch, he uses the outside of his right foot to simultaneously control the ball and poke it between Takahiro Tomiyasu's legs. Sets off on a little dribble, gets into a shooting position and gets in a shot that the goalkeeper turns onto the post. But a moment of absolute brilliance. I was on my feet and applauding. We would call that a nutmeg for reasons that no one has adequately ever explained. In France, it's... In France, it would be un petit pont, a little bridge. A little bridge for reasons that are a little bit more obvious. In Brazil, though, Tom, as the author of Do You Speak Football?

5:26the definitive tome on football terminology around the world. What do they call it? Spoil for choice in Brazil. Unsurprisingly, you could call it a caneta, which means a pen. Ovinho, little egg. Janelinha, little window. A rolinho. Is it a long list? There's a couple more. It's a bit like, you know how the Escobos have 74 words for snow? No, literally. It literally is. Rolinho is like the little kind of rolly one that you do with the studs. Nutmeg is as valuable to a Brazilian as snow is to an Eskimo there you go so it all makes sense so take your pick for Vinnie Jr's little bit of magic today very nice Laurie what stood out for you?

6:08well yeah it feels a bit again wrong to say this after the Escapades would you want to update it? I mean this is the picture we've got because we did ask you earlier what was this? I'm going to stay faithful this is Fabian Balbuena having his penalty saved by Manuel Neuer what a moment that was what a moment because we were all gathered around the TV at the Totally studio, the ranch, absolutely engaged in this penalty shootout because Germany had never lost a penalty shootout in a World Cup. They were on the edge. Yeah, they'd missed two of their first three penalties. As a result, their opponents, Paraguay, had had two match points and he drags them back with this save from the brink.

6:44Well, yeah, so they missed one wide and we're thinking, okay, is something brewing here? And then, yeah, the 40-year-old Manuel Neuer managed to get down, push it around the post incredible save we thought wow they've done it again the Germans are here and then Jonathan Tarr decided to fly one over the crossbar and yeah Paraguay managed to seal it so I suppose you know maybe there's other moments you could pick but I think that was the moment where we all sort of let out various noises where the most excited that we've been in unison today so I still would go with that moment even though you know Netherlands and Morocco certainly pushed them close afterwards I'm not even going to mention my moment of the day after that was some snails I heard earlier They were very good though.

7:23Yeah, we did emit some noises after that. It's been a day for strange noises. Why? Sorry, were you asking? What do they call snails in France? Escalo. There we go. Escalo and there they are. That's why. It's on our Instagram tomorrow because we do World Cup takeouts, as you know, Laurie, every day on our Instagram. Today, didn't I? At Totally Football Show, I think. Anyway, let's get on to the stuff because big things happened And on Monday, we're going to begin with Germany.

7:58One of the greatest shocks in recent World Cup history, I'm going to call it, Laurie. I don't know what you think about that. Germany getting knocked out of this tournament and a penalty shootout by Paraguay. Correct me if I'm wrong, Tom. It's the first time they've lost a penalty shootout since that one in 1976. Yeah, against former Czechoslovakia. and it took Antonin Panenka to score his immortal penalty. That's how hard it used to be to beat the Germans at penalties. You had to invent new styles of penalty in order to defeat them. Not anymore. Not anymore. Now, how this game even came to penalties is a bit of a story in itself.

8:36But before we get on to that, we do need to talk about what happened to, on a day of not very good spot kicks, what happened to the German penalties? Yeah, I mean, two incredible shoot-outs in the day. I mean, yeah. Kai Havertz missed. Kai Havertz missed. Baltamada. Baltamada also missed. Also missed. And I thought he was a banker because of the way he rocketed his penalty for Newcastle into the top corner at St. James' earlier this season. Orlando Hill was a tough hill to climb. I've stolen another joke from Tom Williams. Yeah, that's fine. Nagelsmann's not over that hill. No. That's for sure.

9:14Well, he's refused to resign, hasn't he? He said, I'm not going anywhere. It's the hill he's dying on. There we go. more ways than one you've got more times haven't you yeah so it was it was an enthralling shootout because we're still thinking how are Paraguay even here you know they kind of scraped out the group they started their campaign with a 4-1 defeat to the USA and here they are knocking Germany out I mean it's not a vintage Germany team is it I mean they've they've sort of toiled mostly in this tournament they will get onto it probably but they should really in my opinion have been through in extra time at least but you just think that they are going to do the job in a shootout don't you And the reason that you think that is that they had scored all of their last 15 spot kicks at the World Cup.

9:55Not obviously all in this tournament, but that was the run of successful kicks. Back to 1982. That was the last time a German player failed to score from 12 yards in a spot kick. Wow. Colin Miller, who often steps in with an intriguing statistic, points out that the World Cup winners in 2006, who were Italy, 2010, who were Spain, and 2014, Germany, have all failed to win a single knockout tie since then. Incredible. That's crazy. All of them. The curse of the World Cup trophy. Spaniel have got to do the job this time, haven't they, surely? I think so. Did Germany deserve to be in a shootout? Well, I mean, like, they should have been awarded a goal that was unjustly ruled out.

10:43But, like, morally, had they done enough to win the game, I mean, I suppose if you're a Germany fan, you would say, well, yes, we did. We scored a goal that shouldn't have been shocked off. So there's your answer. But it wasn't like they were absolutely, you know, battering Paraguay. They put in a lot of crosses quite aimlessly. One of them yielded the equaliser from Kai Havertz early in the second half, but they weren't playing with any great invention. Even players who we know are full of ideas like Florian Wurz and Jamal Musiala. It was just a very basic way of trying to win the match. So Musiala was left out of the starting line-up for Denis Undav, who'd had a terrific first two performances in the tournament.

11:18It didn't work out. Germany did dominate possession in the first 45 minutes, but it was Paraguay who took the lead very much against the run of play when the Germans forgot to defend. And with a brilliant goal as well. I mean, Germany were seeking to counter-attack from a Paraguay corner. And it was Juan Caceres who slid in to break up this nascent counter-attack. in Germany's defensive third. Miguel Almiron plays a fantastic reverse pass to Matthias Galarza on the right, the lad who'd scored the winner against Turkey in the group phase. He puts in a cross, and Julio Enciso, a player not renowned for his aerial ability, appears about 12 yards out, unmarked, bullets ahead into the bottom left corner.

12:05And yeah, Paraguay were in the lead. They were for about six minutes of the second half until Kai Havertz glanced one. How did you do that? I don't know. I was watching that. On top of his head almost. He was definitely aiming it there though, wasn't he? It was the slenderest of glances. He is such a subtle player. He is a very supine and kind of delicate player, isn't he? But yeah, brilliant head. He's actually, that's probably one of his best aspects to his game really. I would say he's heading because he went close a bit later on actually. Drew a good save. Germany went close but couldn't break the deadlock, Tom.

12:37They only had three shots on target in normal time. Despite the fact they're playing against fairly defensive and unambitious opposition. And I think that was a sign of how little creativity and invention there was in their football. In extra time, Jonathan Tarr rises imperiously to nod Germany ahead. And there is much rejoicing until VAR steps in and says, no, there's been a foul on the keeper. Had there been a foul on the keeper? No chance. No, no. I mean, you know, there's some contact. And to be fair, the referee was intervening at previous set pieces to kind of say you need to back off from Hill, the goalkeeper.

13:17He's a towering figure for Paraguay. And I think Germany, certainly Anton was the guy charged with trying to, you know, unsettle him, I suppose. But the keeper moves into him rather than the other way. In this instance, it's a very minimal contact. It's a very momentary thing. He moves into him, really, goes down. And him going down does stop him from saving the goal. I think had he been on his feet at the moment of connection, then he probably would have got his hand up because he was only just a little bit delayed. He did manage to get back up for the time that Tar headed it in. But nobody appealed for it, really.

13:50No Paraguayans were sort of around the referee. Everyone had done the celebrations. Tar had completed it. They'd kind of gone back. And then all of a sudden, you kind of get this call. And I appreciate that. I think Kalina has said that contacting the goalkeeper, blocking the goalkeeper, is something that referees will penalise. But that was just a normal contact. When you think of some of the contact that has been allowed in this tournament so far, the fact that a goal was chalked off and such an important goal was chalked off for that is a bit mind boggling. I mean, that's what was so surprising about it, because generally speaking, the VAR has been used quite sparingly at this tournament.

14:24You know, referees have generally let things go in a way that we're used to in the Premier League, but in a way that you don't always see in a lot of European championships, for example. So for contact that was so fleeting and so light to be flagged by the VAR and to result in a goal being overturned, yeah, it was not only surprising, but felt very out of sync with what we've seen at the tournament so far. It's been great, hasn't it? The flow of games, referees actually saying, no, get up, not buying into all this. There's been a bit of a touch and a player goes down, okay, that's a free kick.

14:54It's been refreshing to see. So I would say that's the most, for my mind, heinous use of VAR decision in the tournament, just because you've actually gone into correcting, inverted commas, something that's happened, whereas other things that have happened that we could maybe disagree with have generally been the referee's decision and VAR hasn't intervened. So I would say that one is right up there. If we're going to do a ranking system, which I know you're probably going to come on to at the end of the tournament, let's get our best, worst decisions. Right in with yours. We'll do a special on that.

15:24Germany, unfortunate then, but as Tom was suggesting with those numbers, did they do enough in the course of 90 minutes to put Paraguay, a team who had lost 4-1 to USA on the opening day, away? No, seems to be the overwhelming opinion of many German observers and critics, a lot of whom were already sharpening their knives for Nagelsmann. Where does it leave the Germany manager and indeed Germany? Well, shortly after the penalty shootout defeat, we spoke again to Raphael Honigstein. Raphael Honigstein, you did tell us Germany had problems. I did tell you, yes. I didn't expect them to be exposed so quickly by Paraguay, but maybe it's just as well because they saved us from an almighty drubbing by the French.

16:09But no, it's of course very disappointing to go out in this manner. We got a little bit unlucky in certain situations and the penalties didn't go away. But overall, if you don't just look at the whole 20 minutes, 120 minutes, but the whole four games, I think we can't have too many complaints. Germany were pretty poor. What will the headline writers be working up for Tuesday morning back in Germany? Well, they missed the deadline. So not much, James. The game finished too late for any newspapers. But what I've seen online so far is basically a sense of astonishment just how poor Germany were yet again.

16:53I think most people like me saw the issues but thought that we would still find a way to beat Paraguay but we didn't we didn't create enough chances we didn't defend well enough for the goal that we conceded and now it's a inquest that's coming our way, who's to blame is it the players, is it Nagelsmann is it an institutional problem since winning the World Cup in 2014 do we need a reboot of some sort. But I think the short-term fallout will be that Nagelsmann's position has become untenable. He cut a very defined figure on the TV microphones after the match saying, I have a contract and I will not run away if anybody wants me to go from the German FA, they need to tell me.

17:46Of course, the German FA won't make that decision tonight, but I think it's very difficult to foresee how he can survive Okay. Das darf nicht wahr sein, as people were saying. Das darf nicht wahr sein. Yeah. You, of course, chronicled so brilliantly the last reboot for German football. To your eye, does this look like an easy fix? No, but it looks an easier fix than maybe 20 years ago when we were in the doldrums, but perhaps didn't quite understand the underlying reasons quickly enough and then needed until 2004 to figure things out. I mean, now you can say that we're not producing centre-forwards, we're not producing full-backs at the moment, our centre-backs are okay, but not amazing.

18:40We're not producing wingers as such, we're producing a lot of technical, sort of number 10 type players. But look, international football has always been about hiding your weaknesses and maximizing your strengths. And there has always been problems. I mean, we won the World Cup with four centre-backs because there were problems at the back. And we had Miroslav Kloser, who, of course, was very successful, but wasn't a striker who, you know, was at the same level as Rudi Föller or Jürgen Klinsmann or, dare I say, Rummenigge and Ged Müller before him. but we found a way to do it. And then it comes down to both the players and the manager to negate your problems and not to add to them by being very capricious in some of the decisions, by being clearer in the way you communicate, both publicly and with your players.

19:30And I found ultimately, unfortunately, that Nagasman was just a little bit too mature for the job and lacked seniority and lacked a bit of seriousness. And I think that's one of the reasons why we underachieved yet again. Many thanks Rafa. That was as quick as Germany's tournament experience at the World Cup. Raphael Honigstein who will still be at the tournament because of course he's working with Austria. So maybe we'll have a chance to speak with him in and around their big game with Spain. Well done to Paraguay though into the last 16 again to face possibly France. In what would be a repeat of the last 16 clash between France and Paraguay from the 1998 World Cup.

20:13Laurent Blanc scoring the first ever World Cup golden goal. Good Lord. So we'll see how France get on tomorrow. Yeah, France have to get past Sweden. By the way, if you're in Philadelphia and fancy watching some football on Saturday, Adam Crafton noticing that tickets for that last 16 clash, which is now Paraguay against either France or Sweden, when it was France v Germany before the shootout, when it was believed to be France v Germany before the shootout, Tickets were going for about$1 ,400. Do you know what? I'll do this again. I made a hash of that. I'll do it again. Should I pick up off Tom?

20:53By the way, if you fancy watching the Paraguay game, the last 16 clash, on July 4th in Philadelphia, before the penalty shootout, when everyone thought it was going to be France-Germany, tickets were about$1 ,400. 20 minutes later, they dropped to just over$800. So, you know, if you're in town, get along there. Now, next up, let's talk about the day's other drama, Morocco, putting Netherlands out.

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22:45Netherlands, Morocco, everyone. Who's up for some shootout drama? Yeah. I've not had enough from Germany, Paraguay. Well, this shootout was remarkable. I saw two things I'm not sure we've seen before from goalkeepers. One was the temporary save from Bart Verbrigham, poor chap, who'd had a brilliant game keeping the rampant Moroccans at bay, but who there, we're seeing this in video, saved. How did this happen, Laurie? He saved it. You could see it happening because the camera angle that we've got on these penalty shoots is brilliant actually now. It's right behind the players. You could see he's about to save it and you think he's actually held it and it sort of squirms from under him and only on replays can you see that actually it hits his back heel of his right leg.

23:29And then he kicks it in. He kicks it in his own net. Agonising for him because he'd read it well, he'd done the save, and as you say, he had a brilliant game. He pulled off one save to a header in their post. It was a fantastic reflection. Probably the best save I've seen at the tournament after that when Rahimi came through one-on-one and he reads it well. He gets his leg up to it and then it's his leg and his shoulder. So he'd done brilliantly. And then you think, here's another crowning moment for him. Not to be, because that ultimately, you know, dictated that Morocco won the penalty shootout.

23:57Well, yeah, that and the save that Bono did pull off, which in itself was a little bit unusual. Was it not Tom? Yeah, that was the Crescensio Somerville penalty, wasn't it? And Somerville had been one of the Netherlands' best players, teed up the goal for Cody Gakpo and thumped his penalty towards the top left corner. And we noticed during the shootout that, quite unconventionally, Boone was kind of just like running across his goal line, almost like a table football goalkeeper. He was kind of stepping laterally across. Rather than diving, using his feet. And so on this occasion, he got so far over to that side of the goal that he had to kind of reach his hand back towards the middle of the goal, stuck up his left arm and saved the penalty.

24:35I mean, one of the weirdest penalty shootout saves that you will ever see. After that, Saibari stepped up and that was him celebrating. Does he get a yellow card for taking his shirt off, given that the game is technically finished after a shootout? That is a good question because I think it... We don't know. Yeah, no, because the thing that comes to mind is Emilio Martinez with Aston Villa against Lille in a penalty shootout in the Conference League a couple of years ago. Martinez had been booked during the 90 minutes and then got booked again during the shootout. But apparently it kind of doesn't count.

25:12It technically wasn't part of the match. So the fact that he had two yellows didn't require him to be sent off remarkable. Or was that only for goalkeepers? Anyway, more questions than answers all fuels the debate. That's the great thing about this sport. there are many questions about this again we'd ask how did we get to a penalty shooter the dutch had taken the lead and it was cody gacpo who scored and this was followed by very emotional scenes gacpo who'd had a family tragedy back home had elected to stay with his team but he broke down after scoring his teammates surrounded him and supported him and as i say very very emotional scenes after that the moroccan equalizer tom yeah i mean it looked like ronald cooman's masterstroke of throwing on valte veghorst had made the difference because it was his flick on that released somerville to square for gacpo and you thought okay well that's the game tied up morocco had been on top as they were for most of the game and you thought well okay that's probably kind of you know taking all the fight out of them but then 91st minute and we're chatting to Laurie pre-pod, in three of the first four last 32 matches, we've had a result-altering goal scored in stoppage time.

26:24The only one where we didn't have that was the... Germany Paragraph, extra time and all that. And on this occasion, it was, yeah, Chemstein Talby of Sunderland, who'd come off the bench, puts in the cross from the left. And Issa Diop, who has only been playing for Morocco since March this year, having previously represented France at youth level, glances in a header to send the game to extra time and then ultimately to penalties. Incredible. Meher Mazahi says the Dutch were playing for penalties. Phil Hay says the Dutch were playing for penalties. Thierry Henry says the Dutch were playing for penalties.

27:02There was quite a few people queuing up to say this. Were they? Maybe an extra time, possibly. I mean, Koeman changed his system. So he played sort of back five, four midfield, one up top in Brian Brobby. And I think this drew criticism from the get-go from people that were watching it. I don't know, watching the game, I felt like there were two teams trying to win the game, but just in perhaps different ways. I mean, Holland were more about winning the ball back quickly and breaking. And then he did change it up with, as Tom says there, Vegos coming on and kind of going long. And it would have been a poignant moment had Kakpo scored the winning goal, as you touch on there.

27:37his girlfriend this week has announced that she's lost a baby. And I think that the fact that he's actually staying with the team has been really well reported and welcomed by his teammates. Virgil van Dijk spoke about it and his strength. So that was a sort of touching moment that you had in the game. But obviously football doesn't necessarily follow the fairy tale and Morocco. I think we're probably more the punchier of the team, shall we say. They stayed truer to what brought them here. Because we've seen the Netherlands in the group stage actually score quite freely. I think 10 goals, the highest scorers in the competition in the group stage, or at least equal.

28:11So for the slight tweak, I suppose Koeman showing respect to Morocco and what they can do. But I don't quite buy into that they were playing for penalties. I mean, they've lost the last three penalties, shootouts. So if it was a strategy, it's not a smart one. And yeah, I mean, a very unconventional shootout. He can't have predicted Bono deciding to just stand to his left or right. because he did it for Timber's penalty, I think, before that. And Timber just put it wide. So it obviously got in their heads in some way. I mean, Somerville in the end decided just to hit it harder, which I think was a pretty decent shout, but it just so happened that Bono was already there.

28:47But yeah, I just thought it was an enthralling game. I didn't mind Neverland's approach, given the kind of pressures maybe that are on them. And it almost worked. Coming into the game, they were the team who I think people were more convinced by. And there were a lot of questions about Morocco. Do you feel, have you got a little bit more faith in their ability to go deep? Yeah, I think so. I mean, we've been impressed by Morocco right from the start of the tournament. Obviously, they reached the semi-finals at the last World Cup. Not too many starting players still around from that tournament.

29:15But, you know, there's a few. We know what happened at the Africa Cup of Nations. They are, technically speaking, until further notice, the champions, you know, whatever. Yeah, it's a shame that Brahim Diaz got hooked before the penalty shootout, although he's probably grateful to have been spared that. But you go back to the opening game against Brazil, that first half an hour of football, they were absolutely brilliant. Brazil couldn't get near them. The olays. The olays in the 12th minute of the opening fixture and Brazil end up feeling quite fortunate, I think, to have come away from that game with a draw.

29:47They go ahead early on against Scotland and then basically see the game out quite comfortably, change things up for the final game against Haiti and come from behind to win 4-2. and they're a proper football team and we should be wary of attributing too much significance to games that are decided by penalty shootouts but I think there is perhaps a feeling at this World Cup that the old orthodoxies are being challenged the fact that Morocco have put out the Netherlands the fact that Paraguay have put out Germany yes these were two extremely close games but the teams from the Americas are playing extremely well The teams from Africa are performing extremely well as well.

30:30And you wonder whether this is perhaps the precursor to a bit of a shifting of the tectonic plates. Tectonic plates, nice. Well, it is a team from the Americas that will be facing this African side in the last 16. And that's Canada, who you saw claim their place in the next round with that tremendously not thrilling victory over South Africa. That was yesterday. That was yesterday. And it kind of, when Tom said that start earlier about the injury time changing goal, I'd sort of forgotten that I was at this Canada so much drama had happened without going back onto that game too much do you see something from Canada that can give them hope against Morocco yeah I could see something happening I mean Jesse Marsh was in Monterey to watch this game yeah he flew in he said he was going to do that to kind of get a first-hand account and Alphonso Davies made his first appearance of the tournament coming on as a sub so you're sort of thinking okay if he can start to perform he came on and actually made a pass straight away that gave a chance then another pass where he created two good opportunities straight away.

31:27So I don't know, it'd be an intriguing one actually because I think Canadians have certainly felt that they have a chance to make an impression. They think that the South Africa performance already, the win, has already put them on a different level to what they've achieved previously. So this would be a whole other world entirely. But you never know. And yeah, I mean, you've got a Moroccan team that's made up of different components, including the goalkeeper. Do you know where he was born? Was it Canada? It was Canada. What are the odds? I'll start there for you. So, listen, will he be slightly split?

32:01Will that affect his mentality at all? His family torn down the middle. Well, looking forward to that one. Meantime, teams from Asia not doing so well in this tournament, apart from Australia, who barely even count. Japan exiting on Monday at the hands of Brazil. We'll get on to that game next.

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33:57Laminya Mall steps into McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez. Gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal. Ronaldinho sees Son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davey's going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henri, who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last, all rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026. Busy households deserve smarter cleaning.

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35:00To Houston, where early on Monday, Brazil came from a goal down to edge Japan out of the competition with a late, late strike from Gabriel Martinelli. Brazil had their doubters going into this, and many of those doubts were illustrated in the first half. I saw it described as insipid, but the second half inspired, if you will. Was it the best 45 minutes of football they've played in this tournament, Brazil? Yeah, quite possibly. I mean, I think there was something quite predictable about the way it unfolded in that Japan, with a lead to defend, inevitably sat back. But I think one of the big winners today was Carlo Ancelotti for his coaching changes.

35:42At halftime, Lucas Paqueta has to go off with an injury and Ancelotti reacted by making quite an attacking substitution. Sent on Endric, who played through the middle. Mateus Cunha, who had been playing up top, dropped back into the number 10 role. And Brazil basically dominated from that point on. Casemiro equalises quite early in the first half and he'd been very shaky in the first half and I think there was speculation at half-time as to whether he might re-emerge for the second half. Ancelotti kept faith with him. He repaid that faith with the goal and then, yeah, as the game wore on, Japan found it harder and harder to get out of their own defensive third, get out of their own half.

36:26And another slightly curious decision really paid off in that when the time came for Cunha to be taken off, and Chalotti replaced him with Arsenal's Gabriel Martinelli, who I don't think has ever played in a central role for Arsenal, certainly not as a support striker. Ordinarily, he's on the left. He did pick up that role and it was from that position that he ends up curling in the winner. We'll hear from Natalie Jedra on this very, very shortly and in Chalotti's changes. They were behind because of a pretty appalling defensive mix-up. Danilo losing possession to Sano, who goes bursting through, defensive midfielder, goes bursting through.

37:07Casemiro has got no chance of catching him. Gabriel, who I think people thought of as being one of the strong points of Brazil's defence, runs kind of in the opposite direction. And Sano, with a beautifully placed shot, puts Japan in the lead. Great goal. I loved it. He's just one of those old-school ones, almost. One of those ones that you used to, not me obviously, try and score. Tom, no doubt, I've seen his football skills since we've played a bit of football over here, get the ball and run with it. In fact, you scored a goal like that, didn't you? Against the group of children. Let's be honest.

37:39You can only beat who's in front of you. You can only beat who's in front of you. I happen to be in front of him, so there we go, including me. And Laurie, there we go. But it did, I mean, obviously I've got a Manchester United tinge to this, so you're seeing Sano run past Casemiro. Right. And we're like, oh, that's into Miami's Casemiro because he has left United, he's now he's beyond what you need in the Premier League rigours and as Tom says you're sort of thinking is he going to make way here no he's actually going to turn around and become I think he got named the superior player of the match yeah he was voted man of the match so he scores the equaliser with a classic header of Casemiro's quality so that burst of energy that you guys managed to wring out of Casemiro this last season was that there or was that just a little bit of getting other people to do the running for him a bit of the latter really But towards the end of the season, actually, he basically just decided, I'm going to put myself in the box.

38:31He kind of kept going forward, and Kobe Mejian was kind of like, okay, I'll stay in guard. But he's done that here, and I guess he needed to because Brazil were a goal behind. I think there's probably something about Brazil's team that is maybe sort of unique in the tournament in that they can beat teams on counters, you know, Martinelli, Cunha, Vinicius, clearly. But also, if you've got a guy like Casemiro in the box, if you've got against a deep defence, you know, as they kind of became, that's a troubling thing for them to counter because he actually should have scored probably earlier when he had the header back and then it's a great clearance off the line the goalkeeper sort of scrambling a little bit he pulled off a brilliant save didn't he to Vinicius' shot that was your moment of the day didn't quite get enough of a hand on Martinelli's shot and Martinelli at the end assisted by Bruno Gimaraes with his fourth assist of this World Cup brilliant pass could he be assisting Martinelli next season?

39:23oh how devious of you James Well, something I read. Yeah, Arsenal obviously are interested, aren't they? Well, it was a win for Brazil. At the game was Nathalie Gedra. And shortly after the final whistle, I asked her how she felt about the victory and also how Brazil exactly got back into it. Ancelotti did really well. I think he did, one, a good job in just calming players down during halftime. We all thought he was going to take Casemiro off because Casemiro was booked and because he made a mistake in the goal. The center goal. Yes. So, like, Casemiro didn't go closer to the defender because he was already booked, and Gabriel didn't go closer as well, didn't close in to the Japanese player to avoid the goal.

40:16But then he kept Casemiro, and when he introduced Martinelli, We were all a bit, but what does he want from that? Why Martinelli, you know? So he was absolutely right about everything in the end. Casemiro gets the equalizer in his later voted man of the match. Martinelli then with that extraordinary late winner. Touch more about what this means for Brazil going forward and the injuries because Paqueta, but also Casemiro, not 100 % after this game. But just on the subject of Endric and the public opinion, We've heard about the memes, the incredible variety of memes about Ancelotti being this curmudgeonly old scrooge who won't pick Hendrik.

40:57To what extent has public opinion kind of moved against Ancelotti over this in Brazil? Yeah, well, Brazilians in the World Cup, it's all very emotional, isn't it? So there is this, people really want to see Hendrik because every time he's on the pitch, he's delivering for Brazil. He gives them just an extra dose of energy and he tries different things. So people really like him. And Ancelotti is very vague when he's asked about Hendrik. Oh, how many minutes can he play? And he says, no, Hendrik, we have to be calm with him. He's going to be important. He's going to have minutes. But he's always very vague about Hendrik.

41:37The memes is really a Brazilian specialty. I can't believe how much time they spend on this, but they are very good. But in what it means, I think I spoke to Bruno Guimarães and I spoke to Gabriel Martinelli after the game. And they both spoke, they both talked about the confidence boost. Like the Scotland performance was already a confidence boost. But the resilience that Brazil had to show against Japan, who was extremely well organized, who was very efficient in the way they were defending and how they needed to be creative to find those passes, to break those lines, you know, and the attitude that they had to carry on up until the very end of the game.

42:21So they both mentioned confidence. So it's a Brazilian side that we see growing throughout the tournament. You know, we see the Morocco game. That team is already a completely different team compared to this one through injuries as well, but with the attitude and the positivity, there's much more positivity, definitely. Okay. And your optimism, your faith, Natalie, is it growing more after this game? It was such a tough draw for Brazil. You know, you top the group and you get Japan. Like it is not a great reward for topping the group. But still, I think we need to wait. I'm still very cautious.

43:02That's the bottom line, yes. Norway or Ivory Coast in the next round. And then if you get to the quarterfinal, could be England, could be Mexico. Interesting times ahead, Natalie Gedra. Listen, thank you so much for joining us. Have a safe flight to your next destination, which is? Mexico City. Yes, I'm going to the Azteca for the first time. I'm very excited. I'll be covering Mexico, Ecuador. Natalie Gedra. Brazilian supporters after the game. did you see this joined the Japanese fans in tidying up at the stadium? What a heartwarming scene. What a theme that's emerging from this World Cup. Nice to see the Japanese influence starting to spread.

43:47What's the Scottish influence? I think the Scottish influence. Well, they put a fairy liquid in the fountain. I don't know if that counts for clearing up. I'm not sure they're doing that for cleaning purposes. Might be wrong. Anyway. Scottish fans let us know. Japanese meanwhile clear out in a very real sense. Moriasa was missing a ton of key players in this game but I think just to touch on them briefly missing any kind of real game plan for the second half I think as well I mean first half they were really impressive 5-4-1 out of possession very compact, very well organised doubling up on Brazil's wide players who we know are there ordinarily where the danger comes from Vinicius Junior very quiet in the first half Ryan filling in for the injured Rafinha on the right was practically anonymous and obviously they scored the goal so they're 1-0 up at half time but then once Brazil took control of the game I think that kind of shook them out of that initial game plan and they weren't able to regain control and the longer the game went on the harder and harder they found it to get out and create opportunities And put pressure on that Brazilian defence, which does seem to be their big weak point.

45:00Anyway, no doubt questions for Moriasu when he returns home, but no disgrace in going out of a World Cup to Brazil, especially after such a spirited first half. First time, incidentally, that Brazil have come from behind to win a knockout match at the World Cup since they beat England in the quarterfinals of 2002. to not only mentioning it because it's England, it is of historical significance and relevance. The fact that it involves England being eliminated from a major tournament is purely coincidental, of course. We'll see just how relevant it could be because if Brazil do get through their last 16 clash and England get to theirs and through that, it's Brazil they would be meeting in Miami.

45:412002 all over again. All right then. Very good. That's the bracket. Way too small for you to read it. but trust me that's what's happening there very good in a second or two we'll get on to what awaits in tuesday's matches can they live up to the drama that we've seen today i don't know before we do though one team who obviously didn't make the knockout stages were iran they are still in mexico preparing to make their way home to iran having not actually been beaten in this tournament It was a tournament of fine margins for them. And I think one of the real regrets that they will have is that because it is, there were such slender differences.

46:22The fact that they weren't able to make their preparations for matches in terms of training, in terms of transport and everything else could well have had an impact on that. Whatever you think about that nation or their government or the fact is if they're in the competition, they deserve a level playing field the same as every other nation. They didn't get that. And despite not losing, they head home. What was kind of surprising, no, actually very surprising on this Monday, Laurie, is something that you've written about, which is the Secretary of Homeland Security. Yes. The Homeland Security Secretary, Mark Wayne Mullen, he welcomed this development with Iran.

47:02He said, I'm just glad they're done and they're not coming back. I was so happy when we were able to pull their visas and said they could leave US soil. I might have sung a song or two or maybe even danced a happy dance. Yeah, I mean, he's not holding back, is he? What's Iran's response to this? Yeah, they're obviously very upset. I mean, listen, I suppose they're kind of useless. And there's maybe a little bit of a proxy war almost ongoing because you've got communications. An actual one. Yeah, exactly. So you can't really separate the political totally. But to your point, I think a team, if they're in a tournament, should be entitled to a level playing field.

47:36and their issue was with the fact that they could only enter the country a day before games. They wanted to do it two days. They managed it for Seattle, but then they had to leave immediately after that. And I think it was clear, and lots of support staff weren't able to come. They had to move their training camp. They missed out a whole bunch of people who didn't come with the party. But above all, the first two games were only allowed to travel the day before the match. You might think, well, that's fine. They still get to play in 90 minutes, and that's true. But with the amount of time and planning that federations put into preparing these matches, as I say, fine margins anyway, pretty remarkable they were here in the first place.

48:14And in terms of this actual sort of statement now from the US government, they kind of feel that that taps into the idea that they weren't welcome at all. You know, so they kind of wanted them out of the tournament. I don't know what gave them that impression. Yeah, they've called it this pettiness that cannot even tolerate the presence of a football team competing on the world's biggest stage. and they say it says far more about him than it does about their team. Well, a very unfortunate way for that part of the tournament to conclude. Next up in the World Cup, we've got another set of round of 32 fixtures.

48:47Let's hear about those next.

48:53Tuesday at the World Cup, we've got more round of 32 fixtures. Ivory Coast are taking on Norway in Dallas. Fingers crossed that Martin Sleepness and the Enka Severing podcast team have managed to drive their enormous bus down 30 hours of highway to get there in time. France are up against Sweden. That's in New York, New Jersey. And Mexico take on Ecuador at the Azteca. Woof. What a sizzling line-up. It's been a good last 32 already, and they look ripe for some more drama. The Mexico-Ecuador, Tom, I know you're keen on because the winners will be taking on England or Congo in the next round. Yeah.

49:37I mean, Mexico, very impressive in the group phase. No goals conceded. But have they faced a proper team yet? Well, have they? Aren't our Ecuador a proper team? Are they? We still don't know. Well, Ecuador beat Germany back when it still seemed like something. In their final fixture, yeah. I mean, we've talked about Ecuador a lot pre-tournament and how robust they are defensively. And we did belatedly see what they're capable of in that game against Germany. Yeah. They're used to playing altitude, which could be a factor in Mexico City. Also, I'm not saying that this game is going to a penalty shootout, but Mexico haven't conceded a single goal yet and Ecuador have only conceded two.

50:16And as Tom says, they came into this tournament with a massively robust defensive record. It was a goalless draw last time they met each other. That was in the group stage of the Coppa of America two years ago. Anyway, whoever gets through that could be facing England. Ta-da. Also, on Tuesday, France take on Sweden. This one, I feel, should see goals because you've got Umbele and Dembele. Sorry. Yeah. This one, I feel, should see some goals because you've got Mbappé and Dembele and Dewey and Alise and yada, yada, yada, yada. Is that Jokeras? John Perez and Isaac also Anthony Alanga Anthony Alanga Anthony Alanga interestingly you might feel that France are favourites for this game Swedish media put together a combined team ahead of the fixture if you had your pick of the France and Sweden sides that's what they came up with I can't see a Swedish player they're all French players Laurie right yeah anyway that's going to fill the Swedes with confidence as they take to the pitch that's kind of an alternative view to take as a national paper there you go France are one of just three teams in the tournament that still have a 100 % record, the other two being Mexico and Argentina.

51:28They will welcome back William Saliba for this game, and also manager Didier Deschamps fresh from his trip back to France for the funeral of his mother, poor chap. The other game on Tuesday will take place in Houston, and that is Ivory Coast against Norway. What can you tell us about this one, either of you? The return of Erling Haaland, Do you think he'll get in the team? Do you think he will? Yeah. Fran Larson did well, though. I think he's pushed him for his starting line-up place. You think? No. Okay. So they did take the remarkable step of resting 10 players for the game against France, the final group stage game, to have everybody fresh and ready for this game against Ivory Coast.

52:09Will it pay off? Well, we don't know, but we're going to find out on Tuesday. What do you think, Tom? Yeah, looking forward to this one. Ivory Coast were pretty impressive in the group phase. That late win against Ecuador, fairly comfortable victory against Curaçao. Very unfortunate against Germany. We're holding on to a pretty creditable draw until that Deniz Undav stoppage time winner. We've all been very impressed by Jan Diomonde, who is in the headlines for various transfer reasons at the moment. A lot of firepower in that Norway team as well. So on paper, very promising. Okay. Be in the middle of the night, perhaps, where you are.

52:47but you can always find out about it on the next Totally at the World Cup. That brings us to the end of today's show. So many, many thanks to Natalie and Rafa for joining us earlier on, to Laurie and Tom for being with us to the bitter end, and to the production crew. Do hope you'll be joining us again in 24 hours' time when we return. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

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