Kane leads England to Mexico as USA keep on rollin'

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2:40England at an impasse with impasse avoid World Cup Harry Keery with world-class Harry Kane. Elsewhere, 10-man USA beat the Bosnians, called them Bosnia-not-Hizegovina. And Belgium come from two goals down to beat Senegal in another wild World Cup match-up. It's Wednesday night in LA as day 21 of this World Cup comes to a close. Hello to you wherever you're joining us on Totally At The World Cup. Here on our sofa we have Tom Williams. Hello James. Hello to you Tom. Also Laurie Whitwell. Hi James. Hi, lovely to see you Laurie. Lovely to see you. On the way we'll be hearing from Jack Lang who's in Mexico City.

3:21and on the big screen daniel story who is daniel where are you uh i mean broadly speaking i'm in brusselton north georgia more exactly i'm crouched up by a hotel door to try and squeeze the most out of a slow wi-fi system our thanks for your sacrifice you're on your way back from the atalanta match that england played early on wednesday what a what an occasion that was Yeah it felt very weird I normally cover England a lot during major tournaments so to only intersect with them for a knockout game as the first one kind of made me feel like a fan in that it added the nervous tension you don't get that slow intro during a group stage and yes it was nervous and horrible and all of the above It was a remarkable match I think I called it Atalanta which of course is a totally different thing You're reflecting on your Italia days You can be forgiven James You're very kind And Laurie, it's your last show with us.

4:18Well, not too soon, according to some people, maybe. Never, never. No, it's a great shame, but you're heading back home. I am back home, yes. With teams departing, the numbers are going to be thinning here. Like, well, I can't think of another thing that thins. But anyway, later on, perhaps we'll ask you what's been the thing you've enjoyed the most, what you're going to miss most. Shall I ponder that or shall I? Yeah, have a ponder on that. I'll just do some results now, and then we'll get a moment of the day. All the usual stuff. Results. England, of course, came from a goal down late on in the early game on Wednesday to win 2-1 against DR Congo.

4:56Belgium then came from two goals down late on to take Senegal to extra time where they then beat them with a penalty in the 127th minute. It's the World Cup's, this World Cup's, biggest comeback win. Belgium, next Monday, will now face the USA who in the late game on Wednesday took on Bosnia-Herzegovina and beat them 2-0 in quite heroic fashion. It must be said, having gone down to 10 men. Anyway, we'll get stuck into all of that very, very shortly. Let's get a quick round of moments of the day. Tom, you first.

5:33Jack Lang: It was a goal scored in a losing cause, ultimately, but what a goal scored in a losing cause. Ismail Assar's goal for Senegal against Belgium. early in the second half. They're already 1-0 up. Moussa Niacate plays this fantastic 50-yard pass that Saar brings down on his chest, allows the ball to bounce, slams a shot past Thibaut Courtois. A kind of like updated version-ish of the famous Dennis Bergkamp goal against Argentina. Not as good before the Arsenal fans get up in my grill. I'm not saying it was as good, but similar vibes. A left-footed pass from a centre-back, nice first touch, thumping finish, but sadly not enough to get them through.

6:13All right. Sadly, from their point of view, not so much from the Belgians, of course. Laurie, what was yours? I've gone obvious. Captain obvious for Captain Kane. Yeah, I mean, it was the moment of the day, wasn't it? England on the ropes. Are they going out? Is it going to be another embarrassing episode like Iceland in 2016? But no, Kane took the mantle, obviously scored the equaliser, and then his finish for the winning goal was an absolute rocket. but also the way he can manipulate the ball to get into space to shoot he didn't need to look at the goal he knew where it was it doesn't move obviously but the talk that he got on the ball the sort of whip on it he falls over whilst hitting it that's kind of what you have to do I guess I don't know but I would imagine that's what you have to do as an elite striker to score such a goal and it just I think brought a whole sense of relief to the team Thomas Tuchel the nation and you know hopefully that then is the end of the turmoil for England obviously right obviously it that's it from here on in I'm sure absolutely to the relief of Daniel who was there watching at the Mercedes-Benz Stadium hey Daniel was that your moment of the day as well or do you have something else my moment of the day was England related I took a photo of which we've got a version there of the players looking at the England fans while Wonderwall is played which is the new sort of national anthem of this England team replacing Sweet Caroline on a personal note it wasn't a great performance but England have only won 23 World Cup matches in my lifetime so if you are at one and you see it then it's a special day and I think that kind of whenever you see those players stop and take a look at the fans and see the flags of here there and everywhere in the UK where they've come from in England where they've come from it yeah it does have a hammer home how lucky you are to be there so that which is seeing the picture here if you if you're listening if the audio version.

8:06How did Daniel take that? No, that's another version. But Daniel took a very similar shot. But he was charging too much for his. So this is the Getty one. The England players have all got their arms around each other in a long line. It did feel to me, Daniel, a little bit like the end, the last act of the musical when the cast come out and they perform a final number. And I felt maybe it wasn't the most spontaneous thing, but... Well, they did it, didn't they, after the Croatia game. and I suppose this is now going to be a theme. Maybe it's because of the way the victory happened. It feels maybe more warranted in that, okay, let's actually just reflect on this moment with the song Wonderwall.

8:44I don't know if the lyrics necessarily, maybe they do, the winding roads and the blinding lights sort of echo. That's so true. Yeah. I think it's quite nice, personally. Okay. Yeah. I'm okay with that. It's also better than Sweet Caroline, importantly, which is the biggest thing going through at the moment. Yeah, empirically true. Thank you so much, Daniel, for that moment. Very good. Let's get stuck into the games and three huge matchups in their own way. We're going to begin with England's defeat of DR Congo.

9:15Early on Wednesday, England 2, DR Congo 1. England coming from behind with two goals in the final 15 minutes from Harry Kane. Lots to talk about here. First of all, Daniel, DR Congo didn't play at all like Thomas Tuchel said they were going to. No, they didn't. Certainly not for the first 20 minutes. I think Tom Ijtushil expected D.R. Conger to be more attacking than Ghana and Panama were, but not for the first quarter of the match. He thought that they would start slowly and then try and build. Whereas actually, D.R. Conger came out much faster than England. They dominated possession even before they scored.

9:49And you could see that England didn't really know how to press them. The press was really disorganised for the whole first half, I thought. And D.R.C. were just picking passes through that midfield, which is worrying because the defence isn't protected. I think people are making comparisons with World Cup 2022 and Euro 2024 about England being not particularly exciting going forward. And I agree with that. The difference is that I think then they were protecting the defence deliberately. They were deliberately making games compact and hoping to win them in magic moments. I'm not sure it's deliberate now.

10:23I don't think England want to play like this, really. I don't think they want to find it difficult to break teams down and also at the same time somehow be really vulnerable in defence. But that's how they look. The narrative of this tournament is England will be better when they play better teams. I don't buy that at all. I think we'll probably lose to the first decent team we play if we can play like we are. But for now, it is just about enough. Tom, it was a fantastic goal from Sipenga.

10:48Jack Lang: Yeah, it was. Deep cross from Chancellor Mbemba. And Sipenga was completely free at the far post. and we were trying to identify who was responsible in the England back line. I mean, Jed Spence got a bit of stick because ordinarily, given that it was the left winger who scored the goal, it would be the England right-back's job to pick him up. But I got the sense that there were so many players in the middle, one of whom was Aaron Wan-Bissaka, who picked up some really attacking positions in the early stages. The rest of the England defence were all sucked towards that side of the pitch and that's why Sampanga was in so much space.

11:22Jack Lang: But yeah, took it brilliantly. And that was really a theme of the opening stages of the game. DR Congo just seemed to play with complete freedom and England seemed to be quite inhibited. Magnificent celebration, Laurie, that Zipenga pulled off. He's somersault, but a kind of sideways one. I would look forward to see what else he's got here in repertoire, but obviously they're going home. No, yeah, magnificent celebration. Justifiable for the moment as well, you know, great finish. Although I would say Jordan Pickford's hand should have been stronger, could have been, yeah, I think that's a goalkeeping mistake personally for their goal.

11:58I have some sympathy for Jed Spence because I think that, yeah, he had two on one at the back post really, so he had to kind of come into the centre and then get across. I know he didn't have a great game and probably that's an area that Tuka will now need to look at again. It's been a problem, hasn't it, so far already. But yeah, a great moment, great celebration and they were very worthy of taking the half-time lead. Well, they almost made it 2-0 just before half-time when Johan Wisser had a huge chance to add to his three goals. But on it rolled through the second half, what changed things then?

12:29How did England come back into this game? Well, he actually sent on Anthony Gordon, which I was questioning. I thought that Morgan Rodgers would have been a better bet in terms of his penetration, sort of cutting off that left, offering a real goal threat, because Gordon hasn't really had that kind of season, has he, for Newcastle? And obviously now a Barcelona player, and there's a reason why he's gone there. You know, the high pressing, the kind of off the ball work. it didn't feel like that was the right kind of player for this occasion when you're up against a team that aren't they in the second half they did sit deeper didn't they they were more content to do what Tuchel predicted they would do um but credit to him it worked he was the provider of the first goal with a lovely deft cross for Kane the first half England were creating chances like it didn't feel like they were it didn't feel like the Iceland game where they were you know really straining to even produce anything um the goalkeeper produced three or four excellent saves But then in the second half, you sort of get into that point in the game, 70, 75 minutes where you're thinking, OK, maybe this is something historic on the cards.

13:27So for Gordon to actually have that composure in that moment and pick out Kane, who obviously delivered a superheader, I think was a standout moment. And then he even got the second assist, didn't he? Although it was a slight, not quite as important in the whole goal scheme. Right, given how good Kane's finish was. What do you think then, Daniel? Do you take those as two positives? The fact that, A, Congo's keeper was certainly their man of the match, I think. And secondly, Kane probably could have had a penalty in many other matches for that challenge. Do you think? No? I think he probably made the mistake, Kane, of going to ground about a third of a second too early.

14:04It makes it look like he's engineering the contact rather than receiving the contact. And I think in this tournament we've seen a couple of times where engineering the contact will not be enough to overturn the decision. If the referee had given it, I think he had a mistake. but initially from Kane's reaction I thought that it was 100 % going to be overturned but yeah I think on the replays probably not Right well he did get two goals in the end that takes him up to 84 now for England I think that's 72 goals he's scored for club and country this season if this is still the same season here's a stat from the Athletics World Jeans Harry Kane has scored 12 % of all the World Cup goals in England's history how about that?

14:45Remarkable stuff we're so blessed to have him for him to still be producing at this level at his age with the kind of baggage of major tournaments he knows what it takes, he's put in what it takes he went both level and then ahead of Pelé for World Cup goals today which is just a ludicrous thing to say about an English striker he's the best England player of my lifetime in terms of producing and leading a team on and dragging it through big moments because he's taken so much stick you know it's not that long ago that england were playing in major tournaments and people were asking whether he should be dropped it's just yeah his ability to kind of re-engineer and go again and produce his best when england need it the most is like nothing else we've had daniel you wrote after the panama game i have no idea how good england are and it's partly my job to know has today wednesday offered you any further hints not really i think you can make an argument today the last 32 in an expanded tournament can almost feel like an extension of the group stage if you get what is seen as a relatively gentle draw which England did get I think the same problems are still there I don't think we found any solutions and the next game is inevitably going to be harder not just because it's Mexico and Mexico because and because they're better but because of altitude as well and kind of minutes in the legs the problem I have with England is it's a large squad and yet we are still incredibly reliant basically on three or four players producing their best and if that doesn't happen England struggle and if it does happen then maybe we scrape through another game but at some point we're going to need to produce a cohesive performance as a whole and that means protecting the defence while being able to create chances in open play we've kind of done that piecemeal off and on during this tournament obviously the second half creates creation mostly but I've seen nothing there that suggests There were times in the first half where they didn't look like they'd ever played together before.

16:43Just passing simple balls out of play, players throwing their hands up, apologising but not really making it better next time. It was really bad stuff for a while. Just because we won the game against a weaker team doesn't mean we should overlook that. I mean, they aren't second favourites in Mexico because I've seen the odds, but I think they should be at the moment. Interesting. Tom and Laurie, we'll get further takes on England from you in a second. but Mexico is the destination Sunday night at the Azteca. What's going to happen there? Well, earlier on today, given the many factors that are stacked up against Thomas Tuchel's side, we rang up our man in Mexico City, Jack Lang, to ask him.

17:22Jack, extraordinary scenes on Tuesday, the victory over Ecuador and the celebrations afterwards. Has attention already turned to Sunday in England now? Are they already looking forward to this?

17:35James Richardson: I can only really judge it by the commentary on the England match which I obviously watched on Mexican TV and yeah fair to say they are looking ahead so I think as the final whistle was going the Mexican commentator was halfway through an exhaustive list of England players Jude Bellingham, Harry, we will see you at the Azteca in a few days time so they are going to be really excited about it as you would expect And I think, just again, judging by that very small sample size, they're kind of happy that it's England as well. It's going to be a much tougher match for them, but it's a proper World Cup occasion.

18:17Jack, I know the list is going to be long, but why should England worry about Sunday at the Azteca?

18:23James Richardson: Okay, starting with the most prosaic thing, Mexico's team. The defence is great. The two centre-backs, Johan Vazquez and Cesar Montes, really impressed by them. There's a little midfielder, kind of a little scrappy-do fella called Eric Lira, who I think is very impressive. It feels like they're a team equipped to exploit the issues that England displayed against Congo. But you mentioned altitude. It's anecdotal for us, but you've been living there and you've seen some of the other teams performing there. How real a fact is it going to be? so i had a kind of theoretical briefing on it before i spoke to a um a physiologist an expert in exercising altitude who kind of studies cyclists and footballers and runners a few months ago and he said obviously when we talk about altitude we think about bolivia we think about 4 000 meters and the extreme cases and i wanted to talk to him because mexico city is about half that's about 2 ,200 so studies show that anything above 1 ,500 can make a difference to athletic performance there's less oxygen in your blood sprints you can still sprint but it in the period after you sprint so like this is one of the metrics they use in the five minutes after you do an intense piece of running your distance goes down and you're less likely to do another intense run They already look quite leggy against Congo there, some of them, Declan Rice's.

19:56James Richardson: They did, they did. And as you say, they've got strengths in areas where England have weaknesses. So like seeing Cipenda go against Jed Spence, yeah, like you said, Julian Quinonez looks to be in really good form. And yeah, he's not the only one. Like Raul Jimenez has been very good holding the ball up, troubling defenders. And yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting one. Well let's talk about the Azteca, the 12th man as Aguirre calls it. You described the atmosphere on Tuesday against Ecuador as being perhaps the greatest you've ever experienced at a stadium. How much do you think that's going to impact England?

20:34James Richardson: It's a factor. And particularly in this England game, because they know it's the last game there, it's the kind of final chapter in this little chunk of their World Cup story. Haven't been to a quarterfinal since 1986, since the World Cup was last here. So there's all these historical factors in the mix as well. If I was England, I would probably not be best pleased to have all of that in the background to the game, especially how badly England play today. One thing you mentioned there, the narrative behind this, England live with this three-word slogan, it's coming home. There's a three-word slogan very much in play for the home side in Sunday's game.

21:15James Richardson: Yeah, the last few days, this has really come to the fore here. The phrase is ECC. So, like, literally it means and if yes, but it's kind of a better translation would be and what if we did? So it's kind of the natural inclination, I think, of Mexican football has been self-deprecation, maybe a lack of belief due to these historic factors never quite going as far as they would want. And so there's always been this self-censoring thing. But what if we don't make it? And what if we do make it is a response to that. It's a response to the natural negativity. And that was echoing around the stadium last night.

22:01James Richardson: Aguirre was asked about it before the game and he was like, look, I don't know where this has come from. He seemed to quite like it. He's like, I wish my kids had told me about that a couple of days ago. But he said, you know, my players were not using it in the camp. But it has become this massive national motto in a very organic way. And it's quite nice because in Latin America, there can be like a defaulting to Cicepuede, which is often used in these similar situations. So just have a bit of variety is also nice, I think. Daniel, the Azteca, 40 years on, woof. I've already had the inside scoop on it because I went to surprisingly found the best tacos of my trip so far in Brusselton, North Georgia, in a place called Sneaky Sancho's.

22:49and the guy around the bar obviously realised I was English and told me that it would be 2-2 in Mexico, but it was on penalties. And it's sort of one of those things, it was so exact that it caught me off guard and I just ended up sort of nodding and saying, yeah, you're probably right. Even though, again, it's almost certainly more my job than his to know what's going to happen. Mystic Tacos, 2-2 and they beat England on penalties?

23:11Jack Lang: Kind of Argentina 1998 vibes, potentially. It does feel proper World Cup, doesn't it? Yeah. Mexico, England, the Azteca, talking about altitude, things like that. When do you ever talk about altitude apart from at times like this? Marvellous. They need to pack their earplugs, don't they, the England players? Or some kind of insulation for the hotel rooms, because they are going to make a racket, those fans. Right. We saw England perhaps struggling a little bit with the pressure in the opening spell of the game with Congo on Wednesday, certainly after they went behind. So quite what the noise, the barrage they're going to receive with the Azteca will bring it's tough to imagine I kind of wonder it'll be a big pressure a huge atmosphere does it does the actual game maybe suit England a little bit more because if they're going to start anything like they did against Ecuador Mexico will come out the traps flying and that then maybe leaves the gaps for England to exploit on the break so you know Rashford today didn't have that kind of he had one chance anyway he could run at the player and then he sort of shot near post but you're sort of wondering if those open spaces might play into England's hands a little bit more which is again what Tuchel has kind of been getting at hasn't it so um but yeah it's a great game i mean i'm disappointed that i won't be watching it on western coast i'll be back home when it's sort of 1am monday time with a everybody else in england but yeah i think i'll be staying up for it what do you think tom i think it'll be great i mean i think it it will be inevitably a challenge for england um you look at all the little subplots big raul jimenez in what is probably his last ever world cup It's so emotional, hasn't it?

24:43Jack Lang: Yeah. Oh, completely. You know, going up against the team representing the country where he made his name. I see you've got ready for the match on Monday. Yes. Yeah, so for the benefit of anyone who is listening to us rather than watching us, an image of me styled as a Mexican. Mariachi has just appeared on the big screen here at the Totally LA Ranch. And there's me as Lumumba Vea, the celebrity DR Congo fan. I should just point out, these were sent to me by a friend of mine. Thanks, Mike. Are they not real? They are not real, and they are not the result of my own handiwork. Just a little disclaimer there.

25:24Jack Lang: I think you should get these outfits, though. I would never dress like that, but now that I know what it looks like, if I ever go to DR Congo, I know exactly how I'm going to arrive. You're like a World Cup Mr. Ben, for anyone who remembers that reference. There you go. Daniel, where are you going to be watching the game? Sunday night, Monday morning? Very good question. So I think I will be on the way up to Boston from Philadelphia. So somewhere around that part of the world. I think I'm staying in Bordentown, New Jersey, maybe that night. So somewhere going on the way up the East Coast, yeah.

26:00Yeah. Let's get that far from where he is now, right? I have no idea. Only the sketchiest idea where Daniel is, which may be true of him. Yeah, so I've done, it's a very rough estimate, I've done 5 ,500 miles and I've got about 2 ,500 to go. Wow. Of course, you can follow the incredible journey that Daniel is on, on the eye, and get all the latest stories, not just about the games, but the fascinating stuff in between. The fortune-telling taco servers. I should just say I've got a piece out in the next couple of days about the World Cup ghost towns. So it is kind of reporting from Oregon and Tennessee and Kansas and Oklahoma and all these little towns that I've been lucky enough to visit.

26:40So it's a good one, hopefully. Brilliant. Well, I hope you continue to enjoy it, Daniel. And safe travels. We'll catch up with you again soon. See you soon, guys. Have a good show. Daniel's story is looking remarkably chipper compared to some people at this World Cup. Hey, Laurie. I thought you meant me then for a second with my sunburn from spending. No, you look great. Are you sure? Yeah, but I was trying to segue into a topic you wanted to mention. Declan Rice, yes. Thank you. I just thought that it was interesting that he stayed on the pitch, even though as the game went, I guess you have to keep him on because he's so vital even on set pieces but also as a leader.

27:14But he clearly looked not at full capacity and then actually he's the one that shifts to right back. So, I mean, is that going to continue? That seems surely not. You kind of need him in midfield, don't you? And then he eventually came off at the end of the game. But it'd be interesting given the points about altitude that Tom makes and Jack makes that, you know, how much of a factor is that going to be in his selection, Thomas Tuchel? someone like Declan Rice who seemed a little bit pooped after a long season. Did, didn't it? Although he looked cheery enough singing Wonderwall at the end. He did.

27:41Nice to see England have moved on from their left-back problems from the last tournament. A whole new talking point ahead of Sunday night, Monday morning's game with Mexico. We're going to move on because there were two other big games on Wednesday. Next up, let's talk about another of the hosts going through to the last 16.

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30:25and then even with a man disadvantage scoring a brilliant free kick through malik tillman to hold out for a clean sheet and book a place in seattle where they're going to be facing belgium this was kind of the stuff of legends hey tom yeah i mean we knew going into this game that

30:43Jack Lang: the u.s had this very poor record against european sides i can't remember how long it had been since five years five years since they'd last beaten one various other stats floating around as well Bosnia approached the game much as we thought they would, much as they always do when they're playing someone who are better than them, which is to basically sit in a fairly deep 5-3-2 and challenge their opponents to break them down. The first half of the first half was fairly frustrating for the US, but they kept at it. Balogun has a goal held out for offside, but then makes the breakthrough right before half-time.

31:17Jack Lang: And it looked like the USA were going to see the game out quite comfortably. And there's this red card. out of nowhere, which when the challenge first happened, you thought, well, that's obviously not a red card. There's no intent whatsoever. He's caught the guy with his studs, but he didn't mean to do it. But the more you watch the replays, the more you tend to think this is probably going to get sent to a VAR review. And as soon as you saw the referee trotting over, you got a sense that he was going to be sent off. But yeah, they held out. And Malik Tillman, who was absolutely superb, seals the deal with a free kick that the Bosnian goalkeeper, Nicola Vasil, should probably have saved but what did you call him Tom what did you call him Vaseline Hans that was the best I could do harsh but probably fair probably fair but what a moment that was USA who are hanging on at that point producing the the second goal they were hanging on but it didn't feel like they were like straining or being pulled apart it wasn't like sort of last-ditch tackles it was actually a really disciplined together display from the USA which I was impressed by because with all the emotion around it, they went into this game as favourites, home team, as we were discussing beforehand.

32:27Mexico and Canada have already done the business as a host here. So, yeah, a lot of focus on them. And I think that kind of refereeing decision could have thrown them, but it really didn't. And actually, Pochettino didn't make any changes. He just put Pulisic up top and went 4-4-1. And they were fine, really, for the most part. They were about half an hour with Teren, which is a long time. They had some quality, didn't they, as well, in the moments. They got the free kick. I want to say congratulations to Pochettino. Just in case he's listening. Do you reckon anyone did say that in the press conference?

32:58First question, Maurizio.

32:59Jack Lang: I bet literally about 50 journalists as soon as he walked in. But one point about that red card. Did you say they weren't straining? They were still on the front foot. And comparisons have been made by a lot of US followers of a game in the Copa America when they were playing Panama and Timothy Ware, I think it was, got sent off. And they were a goal up at the time and then they collapsed. this time Pochettino seems to have instilled a sense of belief a confidence in this side that has yes led to them beating a European side albeit Bosnia who arrived through a series of playoffs but beat a European side for the first time in I think 14 attempts now and they've got another one on the way Belgium Belgium who it must be said did meet the USA back in March of this year do you know what the score was it was five two five two to belgium to belgium it was it was a riot i think first half wasn't it like they they put them to the sword and you're sort of thinking because the results into this tournament for usa have been very patchy you know win here a loss there and that was a heavy defeat and that was one of the results i remember seeing thinking is pochettino gonna sort of see this through really so the transformation for him to now be this kind of figure of of real uh standing in in us football is something and let's see if they can do Belgium and we'll get on to their performance early but it feels like one that they can win.

34:16Jack Lang: They feel like a different team. I think this tournament feels like it has been the making of them, could potentially be the making of them. You go back to that opening game against Paraguay, the enormous build-up that there's been to this tournament, this feeling that the US were going into it with their most talented ever squad and would they deliver. They show up on the first night, they follow that up with a win against Australia, then Pochettino rotates, they lose to Turkey and there's a bit of negativity and then no one congratulates him just to make it even worse and then you know a really decent win today against the odds a team that a lot of people said oh well you know Bosnia is going to burst their bubble there were plenty of people who thought that this could be where it ended for the US and what a shame that would be for for the hosts in this tournament I did sense when Tom was saying what Bosnia do against better teams that was Was there some Welsh memories in there?

35:08Jack Lang: I'd love to say yes, but watching Wales and Bosnia, my overriding thought was, these are two distinctly average teams. So you're fine about Bosnia going out? It kind of validates Wales? If Bosnia had an incredible tournament, I would have thought, oh man, that could have been Wales. The one thing for the USA to contend with now, though, is Balogun's suspension. One game ban for serious foul play, because he was brilliant in the game. I think he's been the number nine that they've needed. the running in behind, the hold-up play was a real nuisance for them. Actually scored, as Tom says, the offside goal, but then also had the chance they hit the crossbar.

35:42After that, actually, USA had another goal just allowed for offside as well with Pulisic when they were down to 10 men. So they were creating chances, but how does he now adjust to that? He brought Pepe on later on in the game. He's perhaps got other options as well. But yeah, I don't know. What do we think to the descending off? Are we allowed to get into that a little bit? Well, Tyler Twalman, for example, posted a picture of Messi's challenge on the Algerian player back in the first game. We're just showing it on the screen here on our video version. I'm sure you remember it. And Messi received no sanctions at all.

36:17I don't think it was even a free kick at the time.

36:18Jack Lang: I mean, very similar offences. I think Messi's was probably slightly less violent in that... He doesn't end up on his ankle. He doesn't end up on his ankle. Whereas, you know, we saw on the replay, Tariq Moharemovic, which his ankle is completely sort of compressed into it. It did look a really painful one. But, yeah, it does feel like a slight double standard. Well, they can't appeal the decision, as the Athletic confirmed this Wednesday. So it will be without Balogun that the US faces Belgium. They lost to them 5-2 in March. There was also a famous round of 16 game back in the World Cup 2014.

36:56There went extra time with the Belgians going through. will will it be a different story this time around we'll find out Belgium today surprised us I think we were watching them against Senegal we'd been to see Belgium here in Los Angeles they hadn't seemed all that and they certainly didn't seem all that Senegal stormed to a 2-0 lead in this game a lead which they held until I think the 86th minute of this match and we thought well this game's certainly not going anywhere near extra time how wrong we were and how

37:28Jack Lang: on earth did it get there Tom so yeah they've gone 2-0 up Senegal through that fantastic Ismail Assar goal that we talked about at the top of the show and moments later Rudy Garcia the Belgium head coach decides to take off Kevin De Bruyne you know the team's talisman and chief playmaker and Jeremy Doku one of the most dangerous players at the tournament and I and I'm sure many other people watching this thought they were swearing yeah like he like this is it Rudy Garcia there's no getting back from this. They're going out of the tournament. He's taken off the two best players. What a terrible piece of management.

38:02Jack Lang: This is a disaster. And as it turned out, it kind of proved the turning point because the players who he sent on did give Belgium something a bit different. It was Nicolas Raskin and Dodi Lucabacchio who came on for De Bruyne and Doku. And then a few minutes later, he sent on Diego Marrera in place of Hans Van Aken. and it felt that simultaneously, and I suppose in a way that was reasonably logical, Senegal retreated, knowing that they had a result to try and defend. Belgium drew encouragement, but they ended up completely swarming over Senegal and Romelu Lukaku, who came on for Charles de Catteler at half-time, he halved the deficit in the 86th minute and three minutes later, Juri Tielemann scores the equaliser.

38:53Jack Lang: And on both occasions, Belgium kind of caught Senegal napping. So for the Lukaku goal, a cross comes in from the right and it's Pathé Cisse, Senegalese centre-back, ordinarily a central midfielder, filling in at centre-back, doesn't sense the danger. Lukaku gets in front of him and flicks home at the near post. And then for the Tielemann's equaliser, Leandro Trossard puts a cross in from the left. And there again, Maury Dior, the Senegal goalkeeper, doesn't attack the ball with enough conviction. And he had a great game at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It did kind of feel like Senegal sleepwalked into this a little bit.

39:31Jack Lang: And ultimately, you have to give Rudy Garcia credit for changes that I don't think anyone would have applauded necessarily at the time. An all-time collapse underway from Senegal. It goes for extra time. And then we play almost all of extra time with penalties looming. what happens next? So Cross gets played into the Senegalese box from Belgium's left wing Juri Tillemans tries to get on the end of it doesn't, the ball is cleared and then you start seeing the replays and Lamine Camaro who'd come on as a substitute for Senegal in trying to get the ball ahead of Tillemans actually kind of kicks him on the back of the left foot and again similar to the red card in the USA-Bosnia game the more you saw the replay the more you find yourself thinking this is going to end up in a penalty.

40:18Jack Lang: So it proved. And then extraordinary scenes as Telemans awaited to take the penalty. Senegal's players doing everything they could to try and put their opponents off. And at one point, Pathé sees even collapsed on top of the penalty spot with what seemed to be a pretend injury. Senegal clearly has... I mean, at least... And Senegal, as we know, have previous when it comes to contentious late penalty awards. but it didn't put off Yuri Tilymans unlike Brahim Diaz he kept his cool and scored one of the coolest penalties you're ever going to see the latest goal that has ever been scored in a World Cup match is that right it was the 127th or 27th minute yeah and the penalty had been given in the 120th I think so it was a lengthy wait as you say Senegal don't have the best history recently of reacting to penalty decisions in big cup games but Belgium go through Senegal go home no doubt recriminations await What about Belgium then against USA?

41:15How worried should America be?

41:18Jack Lang: Yeah, I mean, I think if you were to have drawn your conclusions about Belgium prior to the last couple of matches, you would have thought that there was nothing to worry about. They started the tournament with two extremely underwhelming draws against Egypt and Iran, and then put a load of goals past New Zealand. But they were pretty uninspired for the first hour of this game. but there is an awful lot of talent in this squad and Lukaku who in his first few appearances looked so completely off the pace and so unfit is now contributing, has got this crucial goal that got them back into the game Tillemans is playing well the guys who came off the bench made big contributions Doku is a really dangerous player this is the last hurrah of the golden generation This is a team kind of caught in a generational transition.

42:12Jack Lang: But they do have big players. They do have know-how. And it will be, I think, clearly the biggest test that the US have faced so far. All right. That game is on Monday, I think, in Seattle. Let's have a quick look, if we can, at the bracket. Begin to fill out nicely. United States taking on Belgium. If they go through that, they'll be in Los Angeles taking on one of Portugal, Croatia, Spain and Austria. Teams who will be in action against each other on Thursday at the World Cup. In a second or two, we'll get on to those games.

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45:22A Martin Sleepness telling us about the text from his dad might be the most wholesome moment in the show's history. And we've had plenty of wholesome moments, as you know. All about the wholesomeness here at Oakley. It was very special. Some listeners claim to have observed Martin Sleepness in the crowd after Harlan's goal. Yeah, he's quite a distinctive figure. Check out the video version if you'd like to know what I mean. Anyway, best of luck to him and many thanks for your messages. let's get on to Thursday's action Spain are taking on Austria that's in Los Angeles the winners of which will be taking on in the last 16 whoever comes out of the second clash on Thursday which is Portugal against Croatia no country for old men for someone etc and so on the final game on Thursday is the eagerly awaited Switzerland against Algeria which will be taking place in Vancouver the first game though is the one you're both going to Spain against Austria and this is on your last day here in the States yeah this is why it's my last day it's the final match of this round that I can go to and then there is a quarter final in Los Angeles after this but you know it's sort of here you go group stage last 32s off your pop but yeah what a nice way to do it I've never seen Lamin Imal in the flesh so that'd be nice to see him play hopefully he can come to the party in a true sense because he's perhaps the only big star that we haven't seen the best of yet good point Spain haven't had the best of times at the World Cup since winning it.

46:54We aired this remarkable statistic that's, I think, doing the rounds yesterday that Germany haven't won a World Cup knockout game since they won it in 2014. Italy haven't done since they won it in 2006. And Spain haven't won a knockout game since they won it in 2010. Tom, will this be different?

47:14Jack Lang: I would have thought so. I mean, they're the defending European champions. They haven't yet caught fire at this tournament. despite putting four goals past Saudi Arabia in their second game. They do have injury problems. Nico Williams, who was such a central figure in that Euro's triumph is injured. Jeremy Pino as well. As Laurie said, Laminya Mal is still playing his way into fitness, but they've got so much ability. You tend to think at some point things will click. And I don't think they should have too much to fear from Austria. So, yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised to see them put on a bit of a show.

47:50Jack Lang: and respond to some of their critics. Okay. Marko Anatovic, you think... Big dog, yeah. Don't underestimate it. He's been on it, he's scored a couple of goals already. Kind of occasion that he relishes as well. Yeah, absolutely. That's Spain against Austria, Switzerland, Algeria and Portugal, Croatia. Who do you think is going to come out on top? Portugal. You reckon? Yeah. Croatia have responded quite well, I think, to the England defeat. but I do feel that maybe I was quite big on that win actually wasn't I at the time to sort of big up Croatia so maybe I should maintain that. I just think Portugal have still got enough haven't they?

48:29Quality and variety yeah it's going to be Ronaldo versus Modric isn't it? Two old Real Madrid teammates over the age of 40. Well if Ronaldo's selected we simply don't know. We have no idea do we? We don't know. We need that tacos guy that Daniel met for giving us the mystic prediction. after that you'll pack your bags and head home what are you going to miss the most then lorry uh i think i've had a lot of very good memory coming here has been fantastic thank you very much for having me um watching all the games you know back to back but i think in terms of an experience uh stadium swim back in vegas right for anyone who missed that episode what was stadium swim it was a huge i think 40 foot screen um with you know outdoor in vegas sun shining and pools dotted around where you could drink, swim up to the bar, watch the game, have a bet if you want.

49:20So yeah, I didn't have a bet. That's not my thing. But it's some way to watch the football. But you were swimming and watching. I stopped short of going in the pool. Oh, you didn't go in the pool? I was trying to work, James. I was, you know, interviewing people. It wasn't just some jolly where I had a margarita in my hand whilst, you know, videotaping interviews. No, yeah, it was... And I actually did used to swim as well, James, as a kid. I tell everybody this but I declined the opportunity to do some laps I'd forgotten my I'd forgotten my speedos so that's why okay wow that's kind of a key thing you could have had the chance to watch Oscar Bob while having a bob yes to that's all I got I didn't workshop anything on this yeah I'm trying to think of yeah this is like that scene in the office isn't it where no one can think of diving who wants to go there anyway

50:09Jack Lang: you know what Harry Kane could have shown you a thing or two about Oh, very good. Diving. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're there. Okay. Excellent. Laurie, well, we've really enjoyed having you here. Oh, that's very kind. And we look forward to seeing you again back in London, when apparently this tournament ends. We're going to be going, returning to. Anyway, it's not going to end for a while yet. We've got another, I think, three weeks-ish before the big final in New Jersey. So totally at the World Cup. We'll keep on rolling. Have a safe trip back. Many thanks to you for being with us today.

50:43To you as well, Tom, to Jack Lang and to Daniel Story previously and to the production crew. Thanks to you as well for being with us. We'll be back in 24 hours time. We'll see you then.

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