Last-gasp drama as Arsenal win at Newcastle and Palace defeat Liverpool

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1:34Daniel Storey: The Athletic FC.

1:42James Richardson: Totally Football Show. Today, Match Day 6. A 90s music vibe at St. James'. Volta Marda shaking the Arsenal like Groove Armada. But Gabrielle says dreams do come true for the visitors. Elsewhere, Crystal Palace, glad all over v Liverpool. Graham Potter, glad it's all over at West Ham. Amarim, still Reuben and Levin as Man United for Brentford. Sunderland winning and so much more on this Totally Football Show.

2:16James Richardson: Sunday, the 28th of September. It's a big hello to you if you're listening on the podcast or hello. If you're watching on our live stream, Don't know if I've mentioned this, that we do every Sunday night of our podcast recording live on the YouTube. Who have we got for you today? Well, Daniel Storey on the big screen. Hi, Daniel. Good evening, James. Good evening to you. Adrian Clark's here. Hello.

2:39Benji Lanyado: Happy birthday, by the way, Adrian. Thank you very much. Lovely stuff. Nice little present this afternoon.

2:43James Richardson: Well, you brought us in little chocolates. It's got to be done, hasn't it? So nice. And Ruben Pinders here with us. Hello. Excellent. Ruben, you were at Sohus Park on Saturday. Wow. What a day. We'll talk about that in a bit. Daniel, you went to Southend Scunthorpe in the National League.

3:01Reuben Pinder: I did, yes. Two teams who are reborn after pretty horrific ownership situations. So, yeah, it was joyous. More for Scunthorpe than Southend. And I'm also at Everton West Ham for the Nuno unveiling on Monday evening.

3:17James Richardson: Extraordinary. So much to talk about today. And Adrian, you're fresh back from the ceiling after Arsenal's extraordinary last-minute win against Newcastle. What a remarkable weekend we had. I mean, it began Saturday morning with the news that Gran Botta was no longer West Ham boss. And then later on that day, we discovered about Nuno Espirito Santo coming in. In the meantime, we had Crystal Palace beating Liverpool. We had the Brentford Man United game as well. So many stories and so many late goals. nine goals on the 90th minute or after nine goals in stoppages essentially seven of the nine premier league games so far have featured a stoppage time goal yeah don't leave early yeah that's a message and yet ruben you were saying that at selhurst park some were yeah

4:03Adrian Clarke: which i found astonishing you know if you're gonna leave early it's got to be a settled result on a weeknight i think when trains are not five o 'clock on a saturday and you know and ketty's goal and just emphasise why you should never do that.

4:16James Richardson: Yeah. Did it feel like Selhurst Park was going to come down when that happened?

4:20Adrian Clarke: It was possibly the best atmosphere I can remember for a regular Premier League game at Selhurst in a very long time. It's electric from start to finish. Right.

4:29James Richardson: A finish especially, yeah. First time that Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United have all lost on the same day in the Premier League since April the 16th, 1994. What does it all mean? We'll get into all of that very, very shortly. The results, though, from matchday six. Arsenal Sunday afternoon with that late-late goal to secure a come-from-behind win away to Newcastle 2-1. Liverpool beaten on Saturday 2-1 by a late-late goal at Crystal Palace, which means that Palace are the only unbeaten side left in the league. They climb to third, while Liverpool's lead over the Gunners is now just two points.

5:03James Richardson: Also, closing back in a little bit, are Manchester City, who are back to five points behind after their 5-1 against Burnley. Saturday's other results, some were more surprising than others. Man United lost 3-1 at Brentford. Chelsea lost 3-1 to Brighton at home. Sunderland went to Nottingham Forest and beat them 1-0, meaning that Ange Postacoglu is still winless in his first five games in charge. And the Black Cats climbed to fifth in the table. Spurs had a bit of humbling as well. They were at home to bottom of the table. Wolves, but could only manage a 1-1 draw against the previously pointless side, with pretty much the last kick of the game.

5:41James Richardson: Leeds United also drew. They conceded their first goals at home this season as well, but still managed to hold in-form Bournemouth to a 2-2 draw. And Aston Villa beat Fulham 3-1 early on Sunday. That was their second win in four days. As Daniel mentioned, Everton-West Ham is coming up on Monday, and then that's followed by a full midweek of European action. Champions Europa and Europa Conference League as well. In the Champions League, you've got Man City, Monaco, Galatasaray, Liverpool, Chelsea, Benfica, Bodo Glimpse, Spurs, Arsenal, Olympiacos, and Union Saint-Gilouard against Newcastle will be previewing all of those games in the Totally Football Show European Edition, which will be out Tuesday morning.

6:28James Richardson: And rounding up all the weekend's big stories in Europe, like the Madrid Derby, Woo! Atletico Madrid 5, Real Madrid 2. Anyway, that's coming up on Tuesday morning right now. We're all about Premier League matchday 6, and I know where we're going to start. St James' is. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

6:48Daniel Storey: That's corner. Oh, they've stolen it! Oh, oh, oh. Arsenal have nicked it on 96!

6:59Daniel Storey: Gabriel's gigantic moment!

7:02James Richardson: Gary Neville summing it up nicely there. Oh, oh, oh. Arsenal, the kind of game that we've grown used to seeing them in on a Super Sunday, dominating possession, knocking on the door, but unable to find a way past until those late, late goals. While Adrian calms down, Daniel, how big a win was that?

7:23Reuben Pinder: Yeah, it was everything. Talking of Neville, he said after about 81 minutes, I think, Arsenal need to win games like this. And I sort of laughed because I was like, they're losing 1-0. It draws a good result from here, showing that, as we all know, Gary never knows more about football than I do because, yeah, they did win the game. First, he is a neutral. I think Newcastle Arsenal now is the best fixture in the Premier League. There's just this lingering spice left over from controversial decisions in previous games and goals awarded and players hating each other. That means it was always going to be like this one way or the other, I think.

8:02Reuben Pinder: But yeah, the denouement of the game was fairly extraordinary and yet also entirely predictable because Arsenal scored two headers. Michael Marino's was fabulous. Gabriel's was more simple, but that's the move. You know, Saliba gets in the way of Pope but doesn't foul him and enables Gabriel to score. And I thought both times were brilliant. I think a draw probably was a fair result, but Mikel Arteta probably disagrees with me.

8:30James Richardson: All three goals in this game, Headers, that's the new Premier League paradigm. Adrian, Arsenal still two points behind Liverpool, who have late, late wins like this all the time, of course. But what does winning a battle like that, what does coming from behind in the way that Gary suggested they needed to do, What does that do to this group of players?

8:48Benji Lanyado: Yeah, it gives them the belief that they can climb any kind of mountain, doesn't it? Whether it's over the course of a season or in a game, if you can come back from adversity in the way that they did in this game and triumph, then when there are other moments where their backs are against the wall, they will feel that they can do it. And it does snowball, things like that. You can see what the celebrations, how much it meant to the team. I think for Arsenal to be within two points of Liverpool, given their comparable fixtures so far this season is quite really extraordinary given what happened at Anfield as well.

9:24Benji Lanyado: So I think Arsenal will be absolutely thrilled to be this close to Liverpool at this stage because they've had some seriously tough games. And today, I would disagree with Daniel there. I think Arsenal absolutely deserve to win the game. First half performance was, I thought, outstanding. in. Nick Pope had a world-class performance, but for Nick Pope I also could have scored four or five goals here. Remember Liverpool came to St James' Park and had five shots. I also had 20 today and they absolutely deserved to win the game. It was always going to come from corners, wasn't it? Having scored 15 more corners than any other team since the start of last season.

10:02Benji Lanyado: It's 36 now. So look, it's no fluke. They work on it. But yeah, it should have been a different game. if the penalty had been given. I think Arsenal would have cruised the victory then. Then they had to do it at the heart rate.

10:16James Richardson: What penalty was that?

10:18Benji Lanyado: Well, come on. Look, if there's anyone out there that doesn't think that's a penalty. Well, there were quite a few people in Stockley Park

10:24James Richardson: who didn't think it was a penalty. Yeah.

10:26Benji Lanyado: Then I don't understand. I don't understand the rules of the game. So I believe, Ruben, you help me out here,

10:31James Richardson: that I believe that the line was that because Pope had got a touch to the ball, that it effectively meant that what contact there was, which wasn't as much as Giocarez wanted to make it look like, but what contact there was didn't constitute a foul.

10:48Adrian Clarke: Yeah, and Pope gets a toe to the ball, which somewhat changes its direction. And, you know, that is technically a clean tackle. However, Giocarez is still running in the direction of the ball. There's still contact between them. It's one of those, much like the decision which we may come onto with the hands on Gabriel's back, which you've seen them given both ways. And I think I would have been okay with that because it's quite difficult to keep up with what the official rule is for each season. But if they stuck with that penalty decision, I would have thought, fair enough. But I can also see toe on the ball.

11:22Benji Lanyado: I was stunned they even looked at it. It's the most blatant penalty I've ever seen. And it doesn't matter. Ever seen? Yeah, yeah, genuinely. I mean, I'm slightly teasing you.

11:33James Richardson: I think I thought it was going to be a penalty. I disagree on the Gabriel push for what it's worth. That wasn't a penalty.

11:38Benji Lanyado: That was poor defending from Gabriel. That was never a penalty. But this one, whether he gets a touch or not, is absolutely irrelevant because his knee is up there and he cleans him out. I was absolutely staggered. They looked at it. And when they overturned it, I was on commentary. I was apoplectic. Right. And thank goodness Arsenal won the game.

12:00James Richardson: Can we get that commentary? just to clarify

12:04Benji Lanyado: on the

12:04Adrian Clarke: Gabriel Voltemar one I don't think that's a penalty either but you have seen them given is there

12:10Benji Lanyado: is any of you three did any of you think that that wasn't a foul a foul rather than not a foul did you think it was not a foul which the Jokeres

12:17Adrian Clarke: yeah Jokeres my instinct was penalty but it was

12:20James Richardson: quite funny when they didn't give it

12:22Benji Lanyado: I can imagine it was funny for everyone else but I was fuming I mean Daniel you got it's a foul right

12:28Reuben Pinder: yeah I thought it was a penalty I can see how they've reached the decision in that the toe on the ball and the ball then going away makes them think that that negates everything else afterwards. But I mean, firstly, I thought it was a penalty. Secondly, this kind of idea of bar for intervention is kind of completely lost in situations like that because the penalty was given. So I can't believe they didn't stick with the decision. I mean, I think, to be fair, Nick Pope looked as surprised as you, Adrian. Because I think he was worried about a red card. Never mind the penalty.

13:04Benji Lanyado: We're having a very different conversation. I would have absolutely got myself into trouble on this show had Arsenal not won the game. Because I was that furious about it. But it doesn't matter now. It doesn't matter now.

13:17James Richardson: Nick Valdemar has scored his second goal in two appearances at St James'. Looking good. and then it was Arsenal. As I mentioned, knock you on the door, but from the corner, brilliant in-swinging corner from Odegaard for the Michael Marino, who's kind of backward flick with his head. Lovely header. Lovely header.

13:37Adrian Clarke: Glancing, the definition of a glancing header.

13:39Reuben Pinder: A proper celebration for Marino against his old club. There was never any danger of not celebrating that goal.

13:45Adrian Clarke: In general, I thought, by the way... For that to be a factor, do you know what I mean?

13:50Reuben Pinder: Well, Yacouba Minte didn't celebrate against Newcastle having never played for them. That is a good point. So I think, yeah, I think we have to be charitable to Marina. I mean, in general, I was just going to say, the goals came from corners, but it was different from Arsenal in that I think Mikel Arteta realised after, whether it was after last week or after an accumulation of weeks, that rather than playing the safe possession and waiting for the laps in concentration, this game more than any other with Newcastle sitting deeper and having big defence, they just kind of needed to get it launched.

14:22Reuben Pinder: and that's what happened. I think in general we're seeing a trend towards that rather than teams sort of trusting the process of pass, pass, pass. Defensive teams are so well organised that you just have to try and create some chaos. Arsenal sort of finally embraced that chaos mode which I think basically turned the game.

14:39James Richardson: Bad news for Newcastle. Beaten at home by a late goal just as they were against Liverpool and losing in this match. Tino Livramento had been an ever-present so far for Eddie Howe. Hopefully that's not for too long. He landed awkwardly after.

14:53Benji Lanyado: Yeah, it looked really bad, didn't it? I think it was accidental. He kind of jumped really early, didn't he? And Sliba did make contact with him mid-air. But I think it was honest from both that he just landed really awkwardly. So, yeah, that was a real shame. But, yeah, no, it was a good game. And the edge that Daniel talks about definitely makes this fixture interesting. I want to say he won't get much of a mention probably, but I just want to praise Durian Timber. He's having a fantastic season. And I thought his performances were sort of encapsulated what Arsenal needed and that fight and resilience.

15:28Benji Lanyado: And he just scrapped everything out. And he really showed in every action he had how much he wanted to win the game. And I think that rubbed off on everybody else.

15:37Adrian Clarke: So there was a great moment on the right wing when Timber had the ball and he was under pressure and he kind of fought his way out and dribbled. And I think that opened a chance for Saka to shoot. And when you consider that he was signed by trade as a centre-back, who very briefly played at left-back before that awful injury on his debut, and now he's come back as a right-back, that kind of versatility and universality of his skill set being an overlapper as well as a solid defender, that kind of epitomises Arteta's Arsenal. Great signing.

16:08James Richardson: Excellent. Something timber, something versatile. The Calafuri towel incident, can we get a breakdown on that? For anyone who missed it, this was Calafuri going to make one of these fashionable long throws and wanting to use a towel just to properly dry the ball. But Ruben, he'd robbed a towel from behind the Newcastle goal, had he?

16:27Adrian Clarke: Yeah, so the referee, while he was trying to dry the ball, kind of interjected and told him he wasn't able to do that. Now, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, but it looked like the towel was Newcastle branded. It may have just been a black towel. but it seems like according to the briefing on The Athletic Luke Bosher writes that there is no rule in the Premier League handbook about towel usage but a source tells us that teams have to agree on towels being around the pitch pre-game and they have to be evenly distributed

16:56James Richardson: you can't move them

16:57Adrian Clarke: you can't steal the goalkeeper's towel you can't pick a towel no because in the football league it is yeah the EFL brought in a ban and a multi-ball system which I'm not sure works as saying because the balls are still going to get wet aren't they yeah but like Interestingly, obviously, I know we'll come on to Palace, but Jefferson Lerma used one to dry the ball before that long throw that led to the goal yesterday.

17:16Benji Lanyado: Interesting. Inconsistency. Yeah. I liked Califuri's sort of cheek in trying to steal the towel. Okay. But he was told in no uncertain terms, wasn't he? So, yeah, look, it all ended well, James. You're magnanimous, aren't you? It's one of those, I was so angry about so much in this game. But now none of it matters because I've got the best present. Califuri's learning.

17:39Adrian Clarke: rules week by week isn't it one week is how to take a throw in next week is the towel rule

17:44James Richardson: Daniel are we going to look back on this game uh for the towel but also for the three points at

17:49Reuben Pinder: the end of the season and go hmm I mean the the the temptation in the direct aftermath is to say yes uh no Neville and commentary was talking about swing weekend um brings to slightly different imagery to me but yeah um I think um yeah as Adrian says it makes them believe that they can go and close down leads, be it in a league table or in the context of a match. I hope they've learned that that chaos football will be infinitely more useful in the last 15 minutes of games than sticking to the process and everybody keeping their position and hoping to beat defenders one-on-one and to create a chance.

18:25Reuben Pinder: I don't think that helps Victor Diokeres. I don't think it helps the wingers. You've got to overload the pitch at that point. I know there was a chance that Anthony Langan could catch them on the break, but the great irony of the winning goal is that actually leaving a Langer free means that Nick Pope tries a silly pass. He tries to release it. He tries to win the game for Newcastle and the winning corner eventually comes about two or three phases of play after that. So that's what can happen. You roll the dice for a six and you might get one, but at that point Arsenal are trailing and they're drawing and they need a goal.

18:58Reuben Pinder: They have to embrace that. We have to see more of that, I think.

19:01James Richardson: Excellent. Alright. Well that was Sunday late afternoon's game. Earlier on, we saw Villa getting their first win of the season in the Premier League, but their second in the space of four days in all competitions, beating Fulham 3-1, moving out of the relegation zone in the process. The Cottagers had taken the lead in this match through Raul Jimenez, who subsequently went off injured, but then Oli Watkins, with his first goal of the season, begin with a classic bit of McGinn. and Wendia who, the McGingold, Ruben, I think you missed this. What you missed was that Unai Emery threw on Wendia at the start of the second half and he transformed the game.

19:46James Richardson: Is that right, Daniel?

19:48Reuben Pinder: Yeah, I think the stat was he's the first substitute in Premier League history to come on at half-time and score an assist within 10 minutes with coming on. I mean, the game had already changed at that point because Villa had proven themselves to be resilient after going behind and after losing Tyrone Mings to injury, which given their start to the season, Philip Park sounded pretty anxious and angst-ridden. Watkins takes his goal really well. He obviously needed that. But it was just better from Villa in general. Matty Cash was excellent. You had the overlapping full-backs. Him and Dean contributed to the attack.

20:22Reuben Pinder: Mordoran Rodgers was better in open play. He was jeered in midweek in Europe, but he was better. So it'll come. They're not a perfect team because they haven't added to the squad enough, I don't think. But it was really funny that I heard they played I'm Still Standing by Oton John when the players ran onto the pitch. So this is kind of, we are all right, we're going to be OK. And Villa proved that. So, yeah, they were miles better than Fulham, who, to be fair, were really, really passive after scoring the first goal. And I think the Jimenez injury seemed to set them back quite a lot.

20:52James Richardson: One man who wasn't standing during the game, Josh King, after he came into contact with Emi Martinez, in a moment that was somewhat analogous with the penalty that wasn't given for Arsenal up at St James'. But, Ruben? This was never a penalty. Never a penalty. I think if you're going to push the ball wide of the goalkeeper,

21:11Adrian Clarke: you then have to at least look like you're going to chase the ball and move towards it rather than continue in a straight line to initiate contact. It was pretty poor from King, but he'll learn.

21:22James Richardson: He will. Villa face Feyenoord in Rotterdam in the Europa League on Thursday. They had a 1-0 win over Bologna last week. Very good. All right, loads to talk about today, so we'll move on. And next up, get on to events Saturday afternoon in southeast London.

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23:52Absolutely phenomenal!

23:54Daniel Storey: Crystal Palace have tripled the champions!

23:58James Richardson: About 5-5 on Saturday afternoon. That was the sound of Crystal Palace's remarkable start to this season, getting even more remarkable. Eddie and Ketier in the 97th minute of their clash with Liverpool secures a 2-1 victory. Ruben, as we mentioned, you were there at a rocking Selhurst Park. When that goal went in, and then also a minute or two later when VAR rubber-stamped it, what went off?

24:25Adrian Clarke: It's the best limbs, as they say, that I've seen at Selhurst Park in such a long time. Because the Chiesa equaliser is obviously a silencer. It deflates everybody.

24:37James Richardson: Ismaila Sarr had opened the scoring. You guys could have been 4-0 up at half-time.

24:42Adrian Clarke: Yeah, there was only 1.5 expected goals for Palace in the first half. which if you're unfamiliar with the underlying numbers, that's a lot for Liverpool to give up. And being there, seeing the chances, it felt like on another day that could have been three or four actual goals.

24:56James Richardson: But when you don't score those chances and when you're playing Liverpool who always seem to find a way and then in the 85th minute, Keiser finds that equaliser and you head into stoppages and it's what, seven minutes?

25:07Adrian Clarke: Yeah.

25:07James Richardson: I imagine you're worrying a bit.

25:08Adrian Clarke: Yeah, and you're considering the pros and cons of defending the point that you've earned against the champions. or going all out for the win. And when that Kirkes clearance, which I've seen some Liverpool fans criticise him for, for not taking it on his right foot and getting it much further down the field, but waiting for it to come onto his left foot and putting it out for throw, and it's those fine margins that enable Palace to get the late win. There was a moment when Jefferson Lerma, who had come on as a substitute, went over to take the throw. Now, obviously, I think we've spoken about this on various shows, The long throw is very much on vogue now.

25:47Adrian Clarke: And Chris Richards can also take them and had been taking a few earlier in the game. They had a little moment. Should I take it or should you? They agreed that Lerma would take it and Richards should get in the box. And all three Palace centre-backs went up for that, which, you know, when you're playing Liverpool and it's the last minute, that's a risk, right? But yeah, just brilliantly one-headed by Will Hughes to keep it alive. And an added sweetener with Martin Gay getting the assist. Right.

26:13James Richardson: who of course didn't join Liverpool at the end of the transfer window, how significant that could prove to be, him staying at Selhurst Park. I kind of voiced the, I think, widely held belief that he'll probably move in January anyway, but you think not?

26:27Adrian Clarke: I would be surprised. He never kicked up any fuss in the summer. Obviously the chaos of deadline day would have been somewhat stressful for him, but he's kept the armband. He is very much level-headed. I don't think he'll agitate to leave. and next summer he'll have pick of the clubs. I would be surprised if every elite club, other than maybe Arsenal, who already have like 15 centre-backs, but you can never have too many, would be not in for him because he's that good. He really is.

26:59James Richardson: Really enjoyed Oli Glastner's run. Oh, yeah. It was great, wasn't it? What an incredible job, Daniel, that he's doing there.

27:08Reuben Pinder: Phenomenal. The best job of any coach in Europe's top five leagues at the moment. by a distance. It's very easy to forget. You know, you watch the game late on Sunday and Ebrecht Eze is at the heart of everything that Arsenal are trying to do. And he was at the heart of everything Palace did last season. And you've kind of forgotten that he's left. It's so impressive is Palace's start to the season. He's got a system that fits the players. He seems to be a very impressive motivator of players without necessarily needing that sort of chess-beating passion. It's all very calm and collected. he comes up with really clever plans for opposition teams that exposes their weaknesses.

27:47Reuben Pinder: They're on an 18-game beaten run. And you look at some of the teams they've beaten over that run. And they've played Liverpool three times. They've played Chelsea. They've played Villa twice. They've played Arsenal. They've played Spurs. They've played Manchester City. They've taken on everybody. And they're unbeaten. And they're unbeaten for a reason, because they're an excellent football team. We said last week, I think, that teams are maybe underestimating Palace a little bit. And that can sound a little bit like damning with faint praise. It's like, you know, they're not taking you seriously and that's why you're winning.

28:14Reuben Pinder: But that's not happening anymore because of the unbeaten run. And yet they're still getting past teams. And look, I firmly believe they should have been in the Europa League this season. They were demoted to the Conference League. And that plus Eze leaving plus Gehi uncertainty could easily have made people feel a bit like it felt at Villa at the start of the season. But they seem to have used it all as fuel. I think the conference fixtures being easier means that they can continue this run in the league. I don't think they'll finish in the top two or three, but I think they can finish in the top six or seven because no Premier League team has a bad side anymore.

28:49Reuben Pinder: There aren't any bad teams in the Premier League. So it's about how you use those individual ingredients and how you motivate them. And Glasner seems to be better than everyone else at doing it.

28:58James Richardson: And now you're going to believe us we're going to win the league they were singing as you left us.

29:01Adrian Clarke: We might have been singing that on the way out of the ground, somewhat tongue in cheekly. But, you know, the underlying numbers do have Palace in the top three for expecting goal difference. Optus table had them top for expected points before this weekend, which just shows that tactically this isn't a lucky run of sitting back and hitting people on the break. It's quite often a mid block and proactive tactics that I think are, like Daniel alluded to, like sustainable. In terms of the vibe for Palace fans, is this comparable with anything you've ever seen before? I mean, Palace fans have been through a lot in my lifetime.

29:39Adrian Clarke: You know, the administration that threatened to put the club out of existence, but saved by Darren Ambrose and that team back in 2010. And then promotion three years later, that was obviously a huge high. Years of Wilfred Zaha keeping the team up by the skin of its teeth and obviously him not leaving until 2023, I think. and now this new wave of like young championship players Wharton, Gehi, Eze who will then and Olisse of course who the model is always going to be to sell them for a profit but when you see how they adapt post-Olisse for a season with Saar post-Eze now with Pino and more coming in the amount of positivity like Daniel said with all that negativity or potential chaos in the summer to have this run at the start of the season especially compared to last season when the first win didn't come until the end of October.

30:33Adrian Clarke: Yeah, the vibes are off the charts.

30:36Reuben Pinder: Off the charts. Daniel? They're also a lesson to other clubs in the Premier League. Premier League is the dominant league in Europe now. So if you are a mid-table team, you can attract really good coaches from Eintracht Frankfurt and you can attract really good players from across Europe. It was in December 2023 that Roy Hodgson told Crystal Palace fans that they'd been spoiled. and what spoilt looked like was finishing 12th to 14th in the Premier League on repeat. And his point was that you're at the big table, so how could you ever want any more? You don't get to choose the menu if you get invited to this party, but you can now.

31:11Reuben Pinder: You can choose the menu. You can do what you want and you can create something if you get a manager who is good enough to do it or a coach that's good enough to do it. You can challenge the elite. Maybe not every year, and that's the problem the Premier League has as in that success for clubs outside of the financial league is really hard to double down on. But for a season or two, you can live the dream.

31:32Benji Lanyado: Yeah, look, tactically, they are awesome. There's no doubt about that with the 3-4-2-1. So balanced. Mitchell and Munoz create so many problems by playing high, right on the toes of the opposition full-backs. Creates space. It creates problems for the centre-backs because they've got the two attacking midfielders in support of the striker. It just works. But the stat that I picked out from this game, I think, is quite a stunner. They only had 28.1 % possession, but this stat here is that they had one shot per 11 accurate passes in this game. Now, you can make 11 accurate passes very quickly. You know, the likes of Arsenal City will make 11 in, I don't know, 20 seconds.

32:20Benji Lanyado: Per 11 passes, they had a shot. They had 16 shots. They only made 175 accurate passes. That's efficiency. That's reliance on your shape to say, we can handle you, and then we're going to hit you hard and fast without overdoing it. We don't have to go sideways, backwards, you know, sideways, backwards, you know, go again. We can go straight at the heart of you and hurt you. We saw it, didn't we, that Wharton chance. Remember that? Slips in Mateta, bullies Canate. He's unlucky not to score. I thought, yeah, I think Palace are superb.

32:51James Richardson: 28 % I think the possession was thereabouts. Scoring from corners now as well, which is something that never used to happen.

32:59Adrian Clarke: Yeah, they've gone from being the worst in the league to like in terms of underlying numbers. I know Arsenal score more, but they get more obviously. Palace by far and away the most effective team from the corners that they do get now, which is a huge turnaround. And, you know, I thought maybe that would dip post-Eze, But Daishi Kamada was on in swinging corner duty from one side yesterday. And, of course, that led to the opening goal.

33:24James Richardson: So nice. Drew McSpy says, with all this chat about Crystal Palace and their succession planning over the last few weeks, Romain Eze has never mentioned how come he looked like an Eze copy, a Zer copy rather, last season when he appeared. And yet, dot, dot, dot, silence, dot, dot, dot, three question marks. Ruben?

33:41Adrian Clarke: He struggled with the step up a bit. Glaser has voiced some frustration with him. And yeah, he played against Millwall in the League Cup, his old team recently, and came off at halftime. So not a great sign. And a good reminder that just because you sell Anderson and you sign Lacroix or you turn Mateta into one of the best strikers in the league, not every signing will work. And, of course, that's one of the limitations with the PSR rules, which I'm broadly in favour of, is that you can't afford too many expensive failures. But he's still very young, so we'll see if he can turn it around.

34:19James Richardson: You've got Passmore. Who have you got next in the League Cup?

34:22Adrian Clarke: Liverpool.

34:22James Richardson: Liverpool again, yeah. Easy. Interesting. Be fine. Interesting. Oh, speaking of Liverpool, it being a League Cup, you may well see Federico Chiesa in that game as well. Is he kind of low-key turning into one of the stories of the season? Yeah.

34:37Benji Lanyado: Well, yeah, he's just, he's impacting more matches, isn't he? He's just coming onto the pitch late on and being in the right place at the right time. I really like him as a player, don't you? I mean, he seems like a good lad. He seems quite amiable. He seems like a good personality. He looks like he's on his way to cult hero status, I think, especially given how...

34:58James Richardson: Part of me is a bit heartbroken about that because he was such a good player for Italy at the Euros and before that for Juve. But the way that he looked last season at Liverpool suggested a little bit a player having a jog around the pitch for a victory lap. So to have him relevant is good, even if it is as a cult hero.

35:20Adrian Clarke: Part of the problem with that move is that Liverpool have a lot of naturally left-sided, very good attackers. Obviously, Isak and Eketika like to drift wide left. Last season, when they had Luis Diaz, etc., Gakpo. so there's not a lot of space for him to get minutes there and obviously on the right they have Salah so he's a really good player to have as backup but the opportunities to play are quite limited for him

35:42James Richardson: They look like being even more limited because he wasn't in the Champions League squad but he has now been put in that because of the unfortunate injury to his compatriot Giovanni Leoni Liverpool are in the Champions League on Tuesday they will be flying to Istanbul I imagine before that actually but in Istanbul on Tuesday they will take on Galatasaray while Palace kick off their Conference League campaign in Poland against Dynamo Kiev. That's Thursday. Looking to make it 19 games unbeaten, which would be a club record. I believe so, yeah. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Quick word for Manchester City, who with a 5-1 victory over Burnley, moved back to five points behind Liverpool.

36:24James Richardson: Burnley did briefly threaten to make a game of this one, equalising. They also had a player join the very exclusive I've scored two own goals in the same game Premier League club. That's, is it Maxime Esteve?

36:39Benji Lanyado: Esteve, yeah. Yeah, they call him Steve at Turf Moor. Yeah, if you hear the Steve chant, that's for him. But they probably weren't singing it at the weekend. But look, there's always going to be a tough game. Just a word on Doku, actually. I mean Harland obviously gets a lot of credit for his late goals and he was excellent. But Doku is on fire, isn't he? I think Doku is one of the best dribblers I've ever seen. I think he has to be considered one of the best dribblers in Premier League history, even though he's not been here that long. It's just so hard to knock off the ball. And he just goes past players so quickly.

37:16Benji Lanyado: I think he made 14 here in this game, eight of them successful. He had 22 touches inside the box, which is ludicrous really for a winger. So yeah, Doku, and he is assisting now. That was the big thing before, wasn't it? Yeah, he's exciting, but he doesn't score, he doesn't assist. What's the point of Doku? Well, I think he's showing now that he's going to be a really big player for them this year.

37:40Reuben Pinder: Just to back up what Adrian said, I was looking at Doku's stats earlier this season and the kind of ending in a dangerous moment. he tried to take on a man or he took on a man 201 times in the Premier League last season and only 13 of those led to a chance being created so he beat the man quite often but then he would either kind of turn back and or be told to turn back and play it in field so this season he's already almost at half that number after I think four starts so yeah that's kind of proof that he's not just taking on the man he's then realizing that yeah my job is now to get the ball into the box.

38:14Reuben Pinder: Probably because Jack Grealish and Kevin De Bruyne have left and he thinks, you know, I need to be one of the elite creators now.

38:20James Richardson: Maybe he's given a bit more license to be. Very true. City are in Monaco in the Champions League on Wednesday night. And next up, we move on to West Ham.

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40:33Reuben Pinder: You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson,

40:35Daniel Storey: and now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy seeing glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show.

40:44James Richardson: Last Saturday, a new Totally Extra came out. It focuses on the legendary Derby County 07-08 season. You know the one. So there's lots of chat about their stories of team captains shaking hands, thinking this could be four or five today, about why Paul Jewell should have listened to the prediction of doom by that strange Scottish man telling him to get off the motorway at Junction 37. He didn't, and we know what the consequences were. Anyway, lots of that kind of thing in Totally Extra, which is out there now. Ooh, Derby fan Ben Mepstead says, why do I think it's a good idea to listen to a Totally Football Show 0708 season review on match day?

41:24James Richardson: I don't know, Ben. I'm glad you did, and it turned out all right for Derby, who went on to get a point at Wrexham in the championship. Thanks to a first Rams goal for Ben Bereton-Diers, who's also mentioned in Saturday's Totally Extra. Why? Listen to it and you'll find out. Now, breaking news on Saturday morning. I mentioned it before. Graham Potter was sacked by West Ham seven days after the defeat to Crystal Palace. One day after he'd just done the pre-match press conference for the Everton game, poor chap, which can't have been much fun because he kept getting asked about that face swap meme and stuff.

41:57Anyway, he played long and was good-spirited

42:01James Richardson: and then the next morning, whilst preparing to take training, discovered that he was no longer in charge by Saturday afternoon. We knew that his replacement was Nuno Espirito Santo, who, of course, had just been fired by Nottingham Forest after getting beaten by West Ham and replaced with Angipas Tocoglu, who had just been fired by Spurs. Anyway, on it goes. Potter is out at West Ham. Nuno is in to gauge the feeling of West Ham fans about this. earlier on I spoke to our very own hammer, Benji Laniado.

42:37James Richardson: Exciting news for West Ham. You've hired the one manager that your old bloke managed to beat this season.

42:42Daniel Storey: Very West Ham. But I actually think there is a method to this madness. I think it's a definite upgrade. And I think most West Ham fans saw this coming a mile off with Potter. I was sort of thinking back over his tenure, and I think it must be one of the most forgettable managerial tenures West Ham have ever had. I mean, there's no real distinguishable features to what he was trying to achieve, at least with Lopetegui before him. There was sort of a discernible attempt at a style, even if it failed. I think the most memorable performance under Potter was away at Arsenal last season when we beat them and that was sort of, you know, soak it up and break.

43:19Daniel Storey: But really, that was Moyes ball, or maybe even more like Nuno ball. So yeah, maybe this squad of players are much more suited to what Nuno does. Unrest had been building.

43:29James Richardson: How much do you think Nuno's arrival will calm that disquiet?

43:33Daniel Storey: I think it will. I think that the West Ham fans have had to accept, post-Moyes, that they were wrong. You know, there was a lot of clamour to move on from Moyes' style of football, despite the kind of incredible success relative to, you know, our history that Moyes brought. There was this kind of clamouring for something a bit sexier. And actually, initially, they were going after Amorin of all people and they didn't get Amorin so they settled on Lopetegui that didn't work so they went for Potter and that didn't work either and these you know these kind of dogmatists now seem very much kind of out of style in the Premier League they're consistently failing like look at Amorin look at Ange look at you know Lopetegui and Potter for us the best teams now are pragmatic they're playing sort of hybrid systems they can play possession football when it makes sense they can do long throws when it makes sense even Guardiola has become a pragmatist and I think Nuno is sort of of that school.

44:24Daniel Storey: He will do what it takes. And the West Ham fans, I think, would have to accept, OK, we tried a couple of more dogmatic, attack-focused, possession-focused managers, and it hasn't worked. So let's go back to something that we know generally works at West Ham, which is a pragmatic, initially defensive manager.

44:41James Richardson: OK, a lot of people would point to the squad or the squad building at West Ham and say this was by no means only Graham Potter's fault. But you think that this team is more suited to Nuno?

44:52Daniel Storey: I think so. I think he's more likely to work out what the hell to do with it. I mean, your point is valid that the tools at the disposal of these last two managers have not been brilliant. And also, let's not pretend that West Ham is like a progressive, modern, data-driven club. West Ham is a dictatorship. It's run by one man and his mobile phone and his kind of coterie of agents. And often that has worked quite well for us over the last 50 years, but it is ageing. And with all dictators, it's not sustainable. And the dictator ends up getting old and there's no system without them. And then the whole thing usually disintegrates.

45:25Daniel Storey: So maybe we're in that process of disintegration. Either way, when you've got that kind of chaos, it's very unlikely that someone's going to come in and make sense of it all and order it and provide some sort of systemic structure. You actually just need someone who's going to roll with the punches, ride Sullivan's whims. Right.

45:45James Richardson: Got to say, Benji, that doesn't sound like the man who just blew up with the Marianarchas at Nottingham Forest. But hey, we'll see. In all of this, what a time to be facing David Moyes this Monday.

45:58Daniel Storey: Yes, it's perfect. It's the look at what you had and let go, Derby perhaps. But you look at what Moyes has done there very quickly. And actually, in terms of trying to prove to the doubters that he's not just this kind of defensive counter-attacking manager. Look at their front line now. It's really exciting. And they've got these kind of three dangling-socked attacking midfielders behind a striker. This is the kind of thing that West Ham would absolutely love. So yeah, it's sobering for the West Ham fans to see that actually they had something that was pretty good and pretty suitable. And they threw it in the bin in pursuit of something sexier and it failed.

46:42James Richardson: Don't it always seem to go that you put it in the bin for something sexier, as Joni Mitchell once sang. Benji, listen, best of luck for Monday and beyond and we look forward to having you back on the Totally Football Show soon See you soon, Jimbo

47:02James Richardson: Benji Laniado Crikey I love the narrative gods David Moyes waiting there for them on Monday night Before we move on to games that have happened on Graham Potter this went really badly for him Chelsea didn't go well either. It's confusing. Was he never any good? I mean, he was in fourth place with Bryant when Chelsea came along and took him.

47:26Benji Lanyado: Yeah, I think he was good. So what happened? I don't know. I'm probably blinking. I think maybe Arsenal supporters are because every time he plays against Arsenal, he produces a tactical masterclass. He's beaten Arsenal with three different clubs multiple times. Now, I think there is a good coach there. I think he's lost confidence. I think the Chelsea thing knocked him. And I just don't think he had the right players at West Ham to play the kind of football that he wants to play. But, yeah, it was a bit of a disaster. He didn't imprint any kind of style, really, on this West Ham group. And it's the right decision to make the change, in my opinion.

48:07Benji Lanyado: Daniel? Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with Adrian.

48:11Reuben Pinder: His two biggest successes, Ostersund and Brighton. are clubs where they build the system and then they find the person to fit the system whereas effectively what West Ham tried to do was appoint Graham Potter and then while he was managing some sort of storm sort of attempt to build a system around him but not actually one that really suited Graham Potter I think it reflects as badly on them as it does on him but the difference is is that when you are a football club you get to distract heavily by appointing a very savvy coach who will make things right which is exactly what Nuno is whereas if you're a football manager your reputation gets tarnished I don't think he'll get a Premier League job as his next job now I don't think that's appropriate we've seen Steve Cooper in the last couple of weeks get go to Denmark and get the Bromby job something like that makes sense for Potter take some time out of the game and then maybe try and go somewhere abroad where you can build again he's never seen the sort of type of bloke who really wants to be a you know a manager who's on the back page of every newspaper and delights in doing his press conferences.

49:14Reuben Pinder: I think he really enjoys football managing, but the actual framework of the job needs to matter now. And he's now made two bad decisions in going to Chelsea and to West Ham. I can really see why he took the Chelsea job. I can see less why he took the West Ham one.

49:29James Richardson: I thought you were going to say he's now made a phenomenal amount of money being let go by two sizable Premier League sides. So he'll certainly be comfortable while he waits for his next move. Anyway, there you go. A manager wedded to a tactical system, unable to make it work with the players that he had at his disposal. In unrelated news, Manchester United lost again this weekend. This time 3-1 away to Brentford. Not to make this about Man United, but Colin Miller summed things up nicely when he said on Blue Sky on Saturday, Ruben Ammer in place, five defenders in Ugate, but his team can't defend.

50:03James Richardson: He spends£200 million on three forwards, all of whom played this weekend, but his team can't attack. Keith Andrews Brentford, Keith Andrews with five games experience, joins virtually every other Premier League manager in out coaching him. Every single measure of Amarim's tenure has been catastrophically bad. And week by week, it seems to get worse. This question from 1R Amarim, what would constitute a sackable result?

50:32Benji Lanyado: I think they've already happened. Yeah, it's just, yeah. I'm really amazed that he's still in the gig. It's been a disaster class from Amarin. You have to be flexible these days. You just have to have different ways of playing. You have to have different, you have to have a plan A, plan B, a plan C. And he just doesn't have one. And the players don't look comfortable, do they, in the roles that he's asking them to do. This was really bad. Like the Harry Maguire one. I mean, you can't really pin that on Amrum, I guess.

51:08James Richardson: Well, when he tried to step up.

51:09Benji Lanyado: Yeah, it's such an easy step up, though. It's like the easiest step up to make in the world because you can see that pass coming from Jordan Henderson and he delays and then he's gone. But why did he leave Yoro out of the team? I mean, Igor Thiago is quick and powerful. Brentford are built on power and pace, aren't they? You take your most mobile centre-back out of the team. De Ligtis also looks better in the middle, right?

51:35Adrian Clarke: And then he got pushed out to the right in this game and did not...

51:38Benji Lanyado: And Sharder is a power sort of pace guy as well. The goalie, he buys lamens and he doesn't pick him. By and dear, keeps making mistakes. I mean, I don't know what he's doing with the third goal. I know it didn't matter ultimately, but he was diving for a different shot to the one I saw. Like he was absolutely nowhere near it. It looks deflected, but it wasn't. It was a really weird one, yeah. I just think it's really going badly now. And I think they have to make the change. I'm staggered that they haven't.

52:07Reuben Pinder: It's a decline in standards, right? Yeah. Like, we all sort of broadly agreed that Eric Ten Hag should have been sacked at the end of the season before he actually was sacked in the October because Manchester United have finished eighth in the league. The last time they were eighth in the Premier League was August 2024. So it's like this accepting decline in standards where it's like, yeah, but if they improve a bit, they'll get up to 12th. I don't want to do the whole this is Manchester United we're talking about thing because I think we've probably done that more often than we'd care to imagine.

52:36James Richardson: But where do you think the line will be drawn? Do you see that coming soon?

52:40Reuben Pinder: I hope for their sake that what is happening at the moment is that they are getting in the ear of who they really want. And I don't know who that is. And I don't know who, you know, I suspect they would like to appoint someone like Oliver Klasner. but then you know we just said about West Ham you have to build the system before you get the manager

53:02James Richardson: Ruben's just given you a scout also isn't he somebody who does play that system the one that wouldn't work anyway well this is the thing

53:09Adrian Clarke: criticism of Amarim's system is system the same thing as formation I don't know but the 3-4-3 is not the problem like I know it's only happened once but Conte won the league playing that formation Glasner's done brilliantly with Palace but the key difference for me and you've run out of ways to criticise United because they're just so bad at everything. But the biggest criticism of Amorim for me is that I don't know how he really wants his team to play. All I know is that he wants them to play 3-4-3 and that's basically it. And then in terms of selection, you have Ugarte, who doesn't look up to Premier League standard kind of physically, really, or with the ball, and Bruno Fernandes, which is not...

53:49Adrian Clarke: In theory, it's balanced because one is defensive and one is attacking, but it never looks coherent. And then they've gone really top-heavy in the transfer window, moving their two best-performing attackers last season, Bruno Fernandes and Ahmad Diallo, out of position, making Bruno and Ahmad a wing-back. And none of it really makes any sense.

54:08James Richardson: Brentford makes sense, though. Jay Harris did warn us that we shouldn't write them off, despite the fact that they'd lost the two top scorers from last season, despite the fact that they'd lost the man who was so identified with their success in Thomas Frank and had brought in a former set-piece coach for his first full managerial role. But this was excellent. Again, Jordan Henderson with the long ball over the top to open the scoring like we saw against Chelsea. And Igor Tiago, what a signing he looks like being. Yeah, the new Ivan Toni.

54:40Benji Lanyado: I mean, it looks good, doesn't it? I mean, yeah, very powerful. I mean, really good goal running in behind and then involved, well, the second goal as well, wasn't it? Involved in the build-up play. So, yeah, no, I like him. Keith Andrews always speaks well. He's a really intelligent guy. We just didn't know whether he could cut it as a manager. You know, when you're there in the technical area all on your own having to make the big decisions. But he seems really calm. I mean, they got lucky, didn't they? Did they? Yeah.

55:11James Richardson: With not getting a red card. Yeah.

55:13Benji Lanyado: I've kicked off about the Arsenal penalty overturn. This, for me, was just as bad. I mean, if that's not denying a goal-scoring opportunity, I don't know what it is. The reason, so I've got the tweet here from the match centre. Referee's call of penalty was checked and confirmed with Collins deemed to Paul and Burma back. VIR also checked the referee's call of yellow card to Collins and deemed that Umbermo wasn't in control of the ball. Now, when the ball is coming across the face of goal, spoiler alert, you're not in control of the ball. But it is still a goal-scoring opportunity. When the ball's played over the top of a player and they get nudged and they get sent off for it for denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity, they are not in control of the ball.

56:00Benji Lanyado: That doesn't matter. So for me, that's a nonsensical explanation.

56:05James Richardson: the penalty that was given that would have made it 2-2 I think at that point of the game and that felt like quite a moment in this match who knows maybe in a broader sense as well Bruno Fernandes taking the spot kick had to hang around four minutes or so for the verdict after which Brentford manager Keith Andrew then called a double substitution which meant he then had to hang around for another couple of minutes which is brilliant I mean we've seen all sorts of parts of the game gamified, whether it's set pieces or throw-ins, but now Varkor.

56:38Benji Lanyado: Was that Housery or was that clever or just coincidental? I don't know, but I like it.

56:45James Richardson: At the end of which Bruno Fernandes' penalty was saved by Kelleher who's now actually stopped four of the seven penalties that he's saved, sorry, that he's faced at Liverpool and Brentford. And does that make

56:59Adrian Clarke: it three penalties taken for Bruno Fernandes this season? Two missed? Or two not scored.

57:05James Richardson: Two not converted, yeah, absolutely.

57:08Adrian Clarke: There you go. Maybe they should give them to Brian Umbermo,

57:10Benji Lanyado: but he also does a silly run-up. Umbermo is the best penalty taker still, isn't he? I know that he missed one, but he's one of the best we've seen, isn't he, in the Premier League. So he should be on them, really.

57:23James Richardson: United have yet to win two games in a row under Ruben Amirim. In terms of their on-the-row performance, which is quite extraordinary, they've only taken, from their last eight away matches, two points. Their next away game is at Anfield, so that's going to be interesting. Although United, you never know. But before that, next weekend, they are going to be welcoming Sunderland to Old Trafford. And, you know, could you rule out the Black Cats doing it? Could you, Daniel?

57:52Reuben Pinder: No, no, no, not at all. Sunderland are excellent. We say every season that a good defence is more likely to keep you up than a prolific attack as a promoted club in the Premier League. and Sunderland have an excellent defence. They've only conceded four times. They're just good at the basics. I think they're second for clearances, first for blocking shots into the box, second for winning aerial duels. And shout out to Reggie Debris for that because I think of the seven most defensive players, so the back four, the goalkeeper, and the two central midfielders they played against Forest, six of them were new this summer.

58:27Reuben Pinder: It's really not easy to build defensive structure in a promoted club when everybody is new. We've heard managers already this season. Nuno said it at Forrest. Vitor Pereira said it at Wolves. Like, they just need time to acclimatise and then we'll, you know, time on the training ground and we'll be better. Sunderland have not had that and the defensive structure looks so resolute. Forrest missed chances here as they are invariably want to do. But yeah, Sunderland look a really, really good side. They look far, far more prepared for the Premier League than I thought they would, given they finished a decent distance behind the top two in the Championship last season and they lost Joe Bellingham.

59:06Reuben Pinder: They're sort of still going under the radar, I think, because I think maybe because of the last two seasons people are slightly waiting for the bubble to burst on promoted clubs and lose seven in a row and then we're at the same stage as we were. But Sunderland don't look like that. They look like a Premier League team, an organised Premier League team.

59:24James Richardson: They've got a great keeper as well who managed to keep out everything that Angers Forrest could throw at them. What's your take on Angers Forrest then, Daniel? No wins so far in the five games in charge and now only three teams below you in the Premier League.

59:40Reuben Pinder: Yeah, and they've taken one point against the last two games against promoted clubs. I mean, my broad point is that Forrest have deliberately got rid of everything they were good at last season. So last season they were really good at keeping clean sheets. and they were really efficient in the final third. And now they don't keep clean sheets, and they're really inefficient in the final third. And that's wholly because they've completely tried to change the system. So this weekend was the highest they've ever had in a Premier League game since promotion, possession-wise, breaking the record of last week.

1:00:13Reuben Pinder: And I think I'm right in saying they've had 26 games since getting promoted where they've had more than 50 % of the ball, and they've only won four of them. So Forrest have taken the thing they're not very good at, decided that that's going to be the new identity, under a new manager and do it three weeks into the season. I'm not saying they will or I'm not saying they'll be close, but that's the recipe for getting a team relegated, effectively.

1:00:34James Richardson: Is it the last new manager we'll see at the City Grand this season, do you think, Daniel?

1:00:38Reuben Pinder: No, I don't. I don't. I mean, if this run carries on, they've got Michelin at home on Thursday, which they should win, but who knows. But the gentle run of fixture is now over. They go to Newcastle next weekend. They've got Manchester United soon, insert joke, I suppose, but still. And they've got Chelsea. And yeah, I suppose there's an argument that playing better teams might be better for this team and it might stop the over-reliance on possession. It sort of gives them no choice but to be a little bit different. But yeah, I can see him not lasting to December, quite frankly, because Evangelo Maranakis, this was his appointment, but he's an impatient guy.

1:01:18Reuben Pinder: He's an ambitious guy. and Nuno was sacked partly because he spoke out but also because Maranakis thought that the end of last season wasn't good enough and he wanted to finish higher in the league and as you've just said, they're a point above the bottom three.

1:01:30Adrian Clarke: It's interesting when teams like Forrest overachieve in the league. I always thought it when Leicester won the Premier League was that they play the same way. It's quite simple. It was sit back and hit them on the counter-attack and nobody called their bluff and kind of let them have the ball. So I can understand you do need to evolve your tactics over time as you kind of overachieve and get better and, you know, just broadly improve. So I can understand Maranakis' desire to do that, but it feels like he's trying to do it too quickly and with strange timing. Like if they made this change maybe at the start of the window and brought in defenders who were maybe better at that, like Milinkovic is very much a box defender and a very good one.

1:02:12Adrian Clarke: But I'm not sure he's going to enjoy what Ange Postacogli wants him to do.

1:02:16Benji Lanyado: Can I just mention Sunderland? Someone for Sunderland. I wrote a piece on Norti Mukiele, the centre-half last week before the game. And I just think he's been a brilliant signer. Maybe one of the best under-the-radar ones. He's played for PSG and Bayer Leverkusen and Leipzig. He's played loads and loads of games. And they got him in for under£15 million. And he's been kind of flawless. Ahead of the weekend, no defender had won more tackles. None had averaged more clearances. Really? Yeah, he hadn't been dribbled past by an opponent. Dominant in the air, quick. Looks a really good player. He's not a messiah.

1:02:55James Richardson: He's a naughty Machiavelli. Something like that. Excellent. All right, well, we'll have more thoughts about the Premier League weekend. We'll touch on Chelsea and Brighton's victory at Sanford Bridge and Spurs and Wolves and Leeds Bournemouth and other things in our final part next.

1:03:19Daniel Storey: This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

1:03:24Reuben Pinder: And Chelsea have lost it cheaply again. And Welbeck is in again to wrap it all up, as he does quite splendidly.

1:03:34James Richardson: What a second half from Brighton. Quick word on Brighton, whose commitment to selling their best players to Chelsea but then beating them anyway remains as impressive as ever. This Saturday they went to Stamford Bridge and won three-one late goals, two late goals here from the Seagulls who came from behind. They're suddenly scoring now, Brighton. That was a bit of an issue, but they've had 11 in their last three matches. Excellent, no?

1:04:05Reuben Pinder: Yeah, they are a team who are being propelled by their League Cup form. I think they've won six goals in both the League Cup games. It seems to have sparked everybody into life. I thought Yacouba Minte was brilliant against Chelsea. He got 10 league goals in assists last season, but just looked quite raw. He just looks like Herzl has been able to really refine him in pre-season. It was a brilliant whip cross for Danny Welbeck, although it was a good header as well. and then for the third goal, it's him high-pressing, forcing a mistake, forcing that turnover that ends in Werbeck scoring in second.

1:04:40Reuben Pinder: So he looks bang on it and Enzo Rijka doesn't.

1:04:44Benji Lanyado: So what price? Chelsea trying to sign yet another winger and it being Minta in January.

1:04:52James Richardson: Speaking of Chelsea, Ruben, you did a thing this Saturday morning on the Athletic FC's Saturday morning live stream offer talking about why the world champions keep dropping points. I'm guessing that you might have mentioned people picking up red cards and turning games against them, because that happened for the second straight week here.

1:05:10Adrian Clarke: Well, yeah, the United game, much like this one, that is always a factor. But more broadly, the guys, JJ Bull and John McKenzie, also of this parish, they were looking at how Chelsea have dropped points this season. And much like what Daniel was saying earlier about Arsenal and City adding pragmatism to their armoury, Chelsea still under Maresca seems to be leaning into a possession territory patient approach, whereas the other elite teams that are going for the title are adding a bit more directness when appropriate. Combine that with some silly individual errors. And, you know, even in cases when their quote unquote rest defence is looking good, like poor decisions that lead to space opening up for attackers and obviously red cards, combined with injuries, say, that have tactical implications, like the absence of Liam de Lappe at the moment means there isn't a nine to really stretch the defence by barging, like rampaging in behind.

1:06:09Adrian Clarke: So Joao Pedro, who would rather find space in the pockets, is the nine, which has led to, I think, Tyreek George playing as a nine sometimes. So, yeah, there's a combination of all these things. And, of course, I know they sell a lot of players for good prices. They're very good at selling. they also love spending and uh they i don't know how you spend sort of two billion pounds and end

1:06:29James Richardson: up with these current centre-back options so the centre-back um options for this weekend were jorall hato and josh achiampong yeah and achiampong as i've seen him play at selho's park actually um

1:06:42Adrian Clarke: last time chelsea came in he looks very talented player right obviously we know chalabra is good

1:06:47James Richardson: and now suspended and you're sorry yeah so i'm just jumping rudely in but he's suspended for next weekend's game, which is against Liverpool at Stamford Bridge. It's a scary prospect. Who do they have? Because Colwell's out injured. Tosin and Fofana are injured as well. Fofanar. Yeah.

1:07:04Benji Lanyado: Not sure. He came on, didn't I think,

1:07:07Adrian Clarke: in the game. And he felt like one who was maybe out of the picture. Yeah. Much like Chalabar last season before they recalled him.

1:07:13Benji Lanyado: There's way too much inexperience in this Chelsea squad. It's great having this business model of selling lots of players. buying them young and selling them and whatnot. But you need in a football team, you need different things, different qualities.

1:07:30James Richardson: It works alright for Brighton, of course.

1:07:32Benji Lanyado: Yeah, but Brighton have got Danny Welbeck. He's a very experienced player. I'm just saying they've got Lewis Dunk. Every team needs a bit of everything. And Chelsea have all of the same thing. They're mainly all promising young players. And I don't think that's the ingredients for a successful team long term. I also think that Maresco's had a really bad couple of weeks. Panicked when he went down to 10, made some weird subs. In this game, he took off the wingers again. Neto and Esteval, Lavia and Gusto came on and it was basically, it was inviting pressure and Brighton said, oh, thank you very much.

1:08:08Benji Lanyado: They couldn't get out. Brighton just, it was the Alamo and they scored three goals. So I don't think, yeah, Maresco's covered himself in glory the last couple of weeks.

1:08:17James Richardson: Crikey. They've got a big week coming up. He and Chelsea. Liverpool, as I mentioned, the weekend before that. Benfica on Tuesday in the Champions League, which sees the new Benfica manager returning to Sanford Bridge because it is Jose Mourinho, of course. Crikey. Now, Spurs, moving along, are going to be off in the Arctic Circle, taking on Bodo Glimt in the Champions League. Also on Tuesday, they beat the Norwegians in last season's Europa League semifinals. That was when they still had Ange Postacoglu in charge, of course. under Thomas Frank. They took on bottom of the table and the previously pointless Wolves this weekend who very nearly, very nearly won the game.

1:08:56James Richardson: Spurs equalising in the 94th minute with their first shot on target of the second half. Crikey, heartbreaking for Wolves, but at least they did get their first point of the season. Daniel?

1:09:11Reuben Pinder: Yeah, I think with Spurs, we're still, I mean, they're still very much a work in progress. I think it's 2.9 XG in open play across the last five games, which is pretty poor given the opponents. You know, Wolves, West Ham, Villarreal, Brighton and Bournemouth, I think is the other one. And I went back and kind of wondered if there was a pattern. I think the pattern is just complete unfamiliarity. Over the last four league games, they've had four different front threes, three different midfield combinations, three different fullback combinations. It sort of feels like Thomas Franke is having to, because they're in the Champions League rather than the Europa League or the Conference League, Thomas Franke is kind of having to sort of learn as he goes what his best combinations are.

1:09:55Reuben Pinder: And they're certainly not finding that yet. They are also fourth in the league at the moment, but quite congested league. But yeah, they were really poor here. Wolves deserve to win the game. Vitor Pereira has kind of gone back to what was working. I think against Leeds, he had like six of the ten starters with some signings. They looked awful. And this was a lot more, certainly defensive unit, it was a lot more familiar. And yeah, they fully deserve to win the game and will be gutted to have only drawn. He made nine changes, didn't he?

1:10:23James Richardson: I mean, which is... It's the most a manager has made from one Premier League game to the next in over four years.

1:10:29Benji Lanyado: Yeah, that's nuts, isn't it? And I watched the game and I was impressed with Wolves. I thought they were really good. I just thought Joao Paulina... I mean, he looked good with his shirt off, but equalising goal at home to Wolves. I don't know whether the shirt comes off, really. Does it? I think you get the ball out of the net and you go to the halfway line. I thought that was a little bit embarrassing.

1:10:54James Richardson: Something, something, something, Arsenal. Something, something. Celebration Police, something, something.

1:10:59Benji Lanyado: I hate the Celebration Police. I really do. But that did tickle. It just tickled me. I'm not going to have a go at it. just tickled me that an equalizer. Was he booked?

1:11:09James Richardson: Yeah. Of course he was, yeah. So, yeah. You hate the police, Adrian.

1:11:12Reuben Pinder: Just freelancing for them for a week or so. Yeah, exactly.

1:11:15Benji Lanyado: Exactly that, yeah.

1:11:17Reuben Pinder: Celebration PR.

1:11:19Benji Lanyado: Yeah, I just think, come on, no. It's time to win the game.

1:11:23James Richardson: Fair enough. It's a valid point, Adrian. Leeds United drew 2-2 with Bournemouth. The Cherries becoming the first team to score this season at Elland Road in the league. Of course, Antoine Semenya was involved in the scoring with that lovely free kick, which bamboozled the Leeds' wall.

1:11:41Benji Lanyado: I've got to say this moment, right? This was my favourite moment of the weekend because obviously they used the draft excluder, didn't they? Leeds in Aronson, Brendan Aronson. I don't know how tall Brendan Aronson is. I think he's about 5 '8", 5 '9". He's not big. And this is a lesson for all other Premier League managers. he wasn't long enough he didn't cover the whole thing did he? so he's laying behind the wall can you have two can you have two draft picks? well you might if you want two small ones you know two Diddy guys they would do the job but I think this is a lesson to have a Premier League manager maybe you need a six foot plus guy to lay down behind the wall because Semenyo I think must have seen it that he wasn't covering the whole wall and went underneath it anyway which was great cheek loved it yeah I really enjoyed that free kick

1:12:31Adrian Clarke: because it wasn't overthinking it. He just hit it as hard as he possibly could, which sometimes is enough, even if the keeper's very close to it.

1:12:41James Richardson: That opened the scoring. Two goals from Leeds United. Rodan on Longstaff to give them the lead, but in the 93rd minute, French teenager Elie Kruppi scoring his first Premier League goal to earn the Cherries a point. Good point for Leeds, would you say, against Bournemouth?

1:12:57Reuben Pinder: Yeah, I just wanted to give a shout-out to Sean Longstaff, who I think has been one of the best signings in the Premier League so far this season. He's only started four games and yet he's already, so he's second in the entire Premier League for tackles one and he's first for doing it in the middle third. So Tyrek Mitchell's made more than him, but he's a defender. It's just that energy in midfield. I mean, we're picking him out on a weekend where he scored and assisted a goal, which is nice too, but just that energy in midfield is exactly what Leeds needed because they're not going to score that many goals.

1:13:33Reuben Pinder: Daniel Farker has basically admitted much. So what you need to do is, particularly at home, you need to make it really hard for other teams. And he looks an absolute stealer. I think it was about 12 or 15 million. Kind of buying a plug-in and play central midfielder at that price is really, really good business for a promoted club.

1:13:50James Richardson: Excellent. Leeds currently lying 11th in the Premier League. Sean Lonsard, it was his dad who was the Great Britain International at ice hockey, wasn't it? I think so. I believe so.

1:14:02Reuben Pinder: If you say so, he's really, really good at cricket, Sean Longstaff. Really? He plays, yeah, in pre-season he was bowling in the, I guess, the Newcastle League. I think, yeah, he's a really good bowler.

1:14:13Adrian Clarke: Excellent. He could probably make a good 11 of footballers who could have been cricketers, or footballers who are good at cricket.

1:14:18James Richardson: Or ice hockey and Andrei Shevchenko would be playing up front. Of course, he had Peder Cech in goal. Exactly. Nice. Nice. Excellent. Well, that's that. Probably should wrap it up there because it's been a lengthy old show. There's so much to talk about today. Anything you wanted to add, Adrian, before you disappear off? No, I'm done. Yeah, out. You're done? Yeah, I'm out. You got what you came for?

1:14:38Reuben Pinder: Off to go and play some more celebrations, isn't he?

1:14:41James Richardson: Oh, dear.

1:14:42Benji Lanyado: It's his birthday. Yeah. He's allowed. Off to blow out some candles. Oh, good for you.

1:14:47James Richardson: Other people's candles. Yeah. Well, many happy returns, Adrian, in every sense. Thanks. I look forward to seeing you again soon. Ruben, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you, my pleasure. And Daniel, thank you for freeing up some of your Sunday evening for us. Same to you, listener or viewer, if you caught us on YouTube. We'll be back Tuesday morning with our Euros show and then Wednesday and Thursday this week. Wednesday and Thursday we've got shows reacting to the Tuesday Champions League action and the Wednesday stuff too. Anyway, look for us. We'll be there. Have a great time in the meanwhile.

1:15:22James Richardson: For now from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:15:28Daniel Storey: you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for more great podcasts just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic on apple spotify and all the usual places we're also at the totally football show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production

1:15:54Daniel Storey: The Athletic FC.

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