Leeds rock Chelsea as high-flying Villa face leaders Arsenal

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30all at the Fulham Man City and Haaland going a ton up, while for Spurs call it Day of the Not Dead Yet, as man called Romero gives a shuffling group of zombies new direction. All that, plus a look ahead to the weekend's action in this Totally Football Show.

0:47Thursday, the 4th of December. Woohoo! Welcome to another Totally Football Show. Today we're in the company of Duncan Alexander. Hello, James. Good morning to you, Duncan. Charlie Acoucher has dropped in as well. Hello. Charlie, hi. And it's a big welcome back to Dan Kilpatrick. Good morning. Good morning to you, Dan. Thanks for holding the door open for me earlier on. Pleasure. Right. Coming out of the loo. Yep. It's where it was. Fourth of December today, Dan. It is indeed, James. Do you know what day that is? It's, let me help you out, it's launch day. And if you're watching us on the YouTube for this new book from The Athletic, the Soccer 100.

1:29Erling Haaland's got his. He was happy about it. And I've just been flicking through and it's, I mean, I know we should be, we're kind of promoting this, but it's really good. Of course, I dove to the sharp end of the century to find out who was where. You'll never guess who didn't make the top four. Maybe you will. I don't know. Anyway, pick up a copy and find out. Duncan, did you write any of this? Didn't write any. I was involved in the initial ranking procedure. All right. What was the process? I mean, Where do you start? Well, where do you start? With the history of football. People nominated lots and lots of players and then it was kind of whittled down on a very exciting Google sheet.

2:08But, I mean, you know, there's obviously going to be arguments. Right. What was the bitterest fight? I can't remember, but, I mean, Dan... What do you think is the most egregious error in there? Well, I think Dan has won. Well, with my Spurs and England hat on, the lack of Harry Kane. No Harry Kane in there. Are we allowed to give out spoilers here? Well, you... I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Well, I've just given one. There's no Harry Kane in the top 100, which I think, given that he is England's all-time record goal scorer and second in Premier League history and was well on course to break that sheer record before he went to Germany, I think that you could argue.

2:44Yeah, I think you can. That's a huge oversight. I think that does speak to a general underestimation of Harry Kane. Yeah, what happened there, Duncan? That said, though... Maybe there was a no Premier League trophy one filter left on Baxford. But then how do you explain, and unless he's in the top five, because I've got everyone from six upwards, Erling Haaland also doesn't make it. And yeah, Kylian Mbappe does. Yeah, Mbappe's reasonably... Without giving it away, Mbappe seems very high as well. Yes. But a great list. Yeah, nonetheless. We must say. I'm going to say the list, there's always going to be arguments about it.

3:15But what is, I think, something we can all agree on is the fact that it's actually really, really nicely written. I mean, it's written by the athletic staff, Krim, of the riding crop. But really fascinating stuff. Juice Fontaine, I just turned it open to here. I can dive into that later on because I'm taking this baby away with me. I should point out it's all new writing as well. It's not, you know, dredged up from before. Of course it is, Duncan. It's not all profiles. It's kind of, you know, some of the people have gone to where that player grew up. Some of them are interviews. It's good stuff.

3:44What was your favourite chapter then? I can't say. I won't say. All right. I mean, I like Jimmy Greaves. Do you? I mean, I argued for him to be fairly high. Okay. And the great thing about a list is it will enrage people and spark debate. And that's what it's all about. Maybe on Christmas Day, halfway through as you've opened it. You'd like something to argue about. Some simmering tensions come to the boil over a Harry Kane argument. Stan, I agree. A list is good for provoking conversation. But more than anything, I think for someone like me, this is a fascinating chance to get to grips with some names that I'm familiar with.

4:16But maybe some of the stories behind those names, not so much. Anyway, that's the 4th of December, launch day for the Soccer 100. Get yours now. If you're listening to this, though, listener, on the 5th of December, then woo-hoo, it's World Cup draw day. And we've got a very special Totally Extra this Saturday, reacting to all the Friday night business. That's going to be out a little bit later than usual for you, Totally Extra, around about Saturday lunchtime as we go through how the World Cup looks once the names have been pulled out of the hat. Are you excited, Dan? I'm most excited for the Peace Prize, I think, which obviously has been given.

4:54Oh, now you're going to be arch about this, aren't you? You're going to be all sneaky. No, I am excited. I think that you get a kind of childlike excitement from a big draw for a tournament, don't you? Especially when it's drawn. Biggest draw. Well, yeah, it's 33 % bigger this time than it ever has been before. I was involved with some testing earlier this week. And, you know, it's not true. It's fictional. How were you involved in testing? Well, I was working some behind-the-scenes work. For FIFA? No, at the Athletic. Oh, right, OK. But England came out in a group of Croatia, which was juicy.

5:24Right. The sheer amount of content that the Athletic is going to kind of start spinning out on the back of it does scare me a little bit. They're even doing an extra podcast, Dan. Well, there you go. It's going to be great. Duncan, you're on it, I think, on Saturday. I think so, yeah. Also, Natalie Zjedra. We've got guests from all over the world, literally. Wow. Yeah. also there's going to be a world class entertainment line up for Friday's draw Charlie did you know this FIFA have laid they pulled out all the stops who have they got in their world class entertainment line up oh I know Robbie Williams I mean first name on the team sheet Andrea Bocelli yeah and collaborated with Yannick Sinner the Italian tennis player earlier this year performing a very weird song I think it was translated as Dust and Glory Dust and Glory yeah still got it rolling back the years right Right.

6:14Also rolling back the years at Friday's draw, apparently, are going to be the village people. Asterisk, not the same village people. But, yeah, that's there, I think, perhaps for... He who must not be named is a big fan of their output, strangely. You've forgotten Nicole Scherzinger. She also will be taking part and dueting with Robbie Williams. Thank you so much. Wow. Do you know what? I just don't know how to pronounce her surname. I hope I've done it right. All right. Anyway, so there you go. And there'll be a Peace Prize. But most of all, we'll find out who everybody gets. Anyway, that's for Saturday, our extra show.

6:49Today's podcast is all about the Premier League and an absolutely cracking midweek round. Here's John Salt, who says, did Chelsea and Man City just show us why they won't push Arsenal for the title this season? Neither of them seems ruthless enough to get the job done. And, asked John Salt, are Wolves the worst Premier League team ever? questions that we're going to be addressing in the course of today's show, John Salt. Although Duncan's already shaking his head to the latter part of that inquiry. We'll get on to the reasons for that very, very shortly. But Charlie, I know you're on the clock today, aren't you?

7:26You've got a... Ish, yeah. Ish. Shall we just have a quick run through the scores of match day 14 so far? One game still to go Thursday night's Man United West Ham clash. But in the nine matches so far, 31 goals scored. Almost a third of them came in one match on Tuesday down at Fulham, where Man City were having a quiet one. They went 3-0 up. Then it went to 3-1. But then they made it 5-1. So back in your box, Fulham. But Fulham didn't get the memo. They came storming back and it finished 5-4. But for a Josco Guardiola goal line clearance, it would have been only the second ever 5-5 in the history of the Premier League.

8:05Woof! And only the second time a team dropped points with a four-goal lead in Premier League history. Wow. But none of that happened. But it did remain the highest-scoring Premier League game of the season. What does it mean? We'll be talking about that game soon enough. Also Tuesday, up in Newcastle, Tottenham came from behind twice with that remarkable Christian Romero brace to earn a 2-2 draw. While down south, Everton won 1-0 at Bournemouth. Jack Grealish with a deflected effort. Bournemouth now just one point from their last five matches. On Wednesday, Arsenal saw of Brentford 2-0 at the Emirates.

8:36They say five points clear now at the top. Chelsea, though, lost 3-1 at Leeds. That moves Leeds out of the bottom three and drops Chelsea to fourth. Moving past the Blues into third place are Aston Villa, who survived a Brighton comeback at the Amex to win a seven-goal thriller themselves. 4-3, that one finished. Villa are the first visitors to win at the Amex since April. Also midweek, Palace beat Burnley 1-0, Forest beat Wolves 1-0, and Liverpool-Sunderland finished 1-1. Another fine performance from the promoted Black Cats. Another head-scratcher for Arnie Slott. We're going to start, though, at Ellen Road.

9:13This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Is that a reply? It's away from him before. And Calvert-Lewin has the easiest task in the world to roll it home. It's a horror moment for the Chelsea defender, Sanchez, letting his frustration show. Wednesday night, Dominic Calvert-Lewin finishing off the visiting Blues with Leeds' third goal in an absolutely stormy performance. Daniel Falker's side, who had lost four games in a row but had shown real signs of life when they almost snatched a point at the Etihad on Saturday. Here, with a real rallying cry of a performance against Chelsea, who slipped to nine points back after their draw against Arsenal on Sunday.

9:59The Athletics' Leeds' rider Baron Cross joins us now. Baron, thank you so much for being with us this morning. It looked like an absolutely amazing night to be at Ellen Road. Yeah, I mean, if you've been there, James, you'll know it's a place quite unique, really, in English football. I mean, our Chelsea correspondent, Simon Johnson, said last night, you know, of all the places he's been this season so far, that's the best atmosphere he's experienced. When it gets going, the Leeds crowd don't ask for much. But if you put in some big tackles, you know, play with discipline, play with passion, play with some aggression in some ways, they will back you.

10:31and the roof really came off last night and they scored at the perfect time. Bijol getting the header inside six minutes and then the second goal just before half-time. They were just brilliant and absolutely everything they needed after several very, very difficult weeks. It took a visit from an old enemy and a change of system to kind of reignite spirits there. Yeah, we noticed at half-time at the Etihad on Saturday that they switched to a back five, went to a 5-3-2 and I know football is more complex than simple base formations as Daniel Farker would tell you. But it just clicked. It seemed to unlock every single player in the team.

11:07Everybody played better to a man at the Etihad. Yes, they lost that game 3-2, but you would argue they won the second half 2-1 if you're being very specific about it. And there was a lot of hope and also some fear that maybe Farker may revert to the 4-3-3 again last night. But there was huge relief when we saw the team sheet and they remained with the back five. And again, it just worked. And I'm sure over the coming weeks, there will be difficulties. And I'm sure other teams will try to pick holes in this new shape. But for now, for the position they were in, it's such a big step forward. And really, again, to a man, they were brilliant last night.

11:44And Chelsea just couldn't live with them. For now, it's moved Leeds out of the bottom three. Daniel Farker calling the result post-game a long time coming for it. A side that essentially hadn't always received its dues in terms of results. They really bullied Chelsea on the pitch and on the score sheet. Yeah, the physical aspect to it was quite key. You could see that Chelsea weren't quite up for it, to be honest. They'd made five changes. There were a few players in there that just simply didn't seem ready for what was going to come their way in terms of the challenges that were put in. Obviously, you'll have noted that Esteval was pulled at half-time.

12:17I know he's billed as having one of the finest careers ahead of him. But last night, nothing really went for him. Gabriel Gudmundsson, the Swedish left-back, had him in his back pocket. Ultimately, the frustration spoiled over and he kicked out at Gudmundsson. quite petulantly. And some referees might have even red carded him for that. There was no attempt to make a tackle there. It was outright violent conduct in some respects. And he was hooked at the break by Mareska, who was fearing a red card for the 18-year-old. They just seemed like rabbits in the headlights, to be honest. So the question now is, what happens going forward?

12:46Having almost got a point at Man City and beaten Chelsea, it's Liverpool on Saturday. Are you expecting the same approach? I guess if you're taking on a team like Liverpool, sitting back and waiting for your opponents to make a mistake is not a bad approach. Yeah, I think if you could have picked any time maybe in the last decade to play Liverpool, you would argue this weekend is the time to do it. I think we're all well aware that they have the individual quality on their day to win any game and could well turn up at Leeds and turn their form around with a heavy win. But as it stands, given what's just come in the past three halves of football that Leeds have played and given how Liverpool are playing, it does seem to be perfect timing.

13:22And I would fully expect Farker to now stay with the back five. He was much more open once the game had finished last night with the fact that he had always planned to play with the back five after Manchester. He didn't want to give too much away pre-match to Maresca. So I think it will be the same formation. You would argue the same personnel. I think Sean Longstaff is probably the only player that's currently out of the team that could come back in when he's fit again. But he's going to be out for several weeks. So I would imagine it'll be the same 11 and at Ellen Road again under the lights through the Saturday 5.30 kickoff.

13:49It does seem like perfect timing. Excellent. Potentially season changing then, we say, for Leeds and also for their manager. How much trouble was Daniel Falker in, do you think? Quite a severe trouble, I would say, James. And I think his critics would say that three halves of football should not cloud people's judgment. And I think, I wouldn't say he's out of the woods yet. I would think certainly, given it's Liverpool, you would argue a defeat shouldn't see him sacked on Saturday. Maybe the manner of a defeat is more important. But clearly over the next few weeks, they need to continue in the vein they showed last night.

14:21Thankfully, after several weeks of maybe not getting what they deserved, they got the three points last night. and as we know, you need to keep chipping away at that tally they need to stay up this season. So he was under a fair bit of pressure and I think given they've just come through, Aston Villa at home, Man City away, got Chelsea at home last night and then Liverpool at home on Saturday, there was a lot of trepidation for how badly those games could go and thankfully, it doesn't seem to be, those worst fears don't seem to be being realised. So he does definitely need, I think, two or three more games of this sustained improvement to really sort of clear the trouble, if you like.

14:55but winning last night certainly buys him a bit more time to prove that Excellent Baron thank you so much for being with us this morning Thank you James Baron Cross We were wondering on Sunday whether Chelsea might miss the suspended Moise Casado as Baron was saying a significant number of changes for that Chelsea team at Ellen Road but yeah their record without Casado does make for troubling reading for Chelsea fans Duncan you caught the second half of this? Yeah, I just enjoyed the fact that Cowart Lewin's goal was the extremely rare 0.99 XG. Briefly, 1.0. That's what you took from 1.0. But it's impossible because, you know, you can miss a chance.

15:38You can miss any chance. So, but yeah, I mean, it was no goalkeeper on the goal line. You know, it's what every striker wants. And yet... Hmm. What? Well, no, there was that moment of tribulation given his recent travails. Nah. Was there not? Okay, good. I mean, he might have injured himself kicking him. But other than that, it was fine, I think. I mean, you know, Chelsea now are as close to Nottingham Forest in 16th as they are to Arsenal. It's a crazy table. It is. I mean, they're only one point then further ahead of Leeds. They're 10 points clear of Leeds. Wow. Yeah, so it is a weird table.

16:09But I think it also speaks to the fact that maybe there was some getting carried away with a draw on the weekend in a game that really Chelsea, I think, had to win in many ways. And especially, yes, they did really well once going down to 10 men, which was entirely self-inflicted. You know, that wasn't like a misfortune that befell them, you know, against an Arsenal team without both their centre-backs and, you know, various other absentees. I think maybe now that will be reframed as a bit of a missed opportunity. John Giroud saying on the subject of Esteval, surely the song for Esteval has to be the tune of Sit Down by James.

16:46I cannot actually hear the song now says Dion without hearing Esteval Esteval Esteval Esteval next to me would Chelsea fans adopt a Liverpool adopted song is the question there that is the question isn't it Dion very good well Liverpool next for Leeds they of course on Wednesday night hosted Sunderland many people wondering if the underdogs could pull off an upset and sure enough they held Sunderland to a point etc and so on Sunderland in fact really unlucky would you say not to get all three that chance at the end I think that would have been one of the all time great Premier League assists and it's reflected in how furious Rofs is that Isidore doesn't score it so what happens Charlie I mean he gathers it from a loopy kind of canate header from a Liverpool corner and given that you know Sunderland are on the verge at this point of a famous draw at Liverpool he'd be well done his rights they haven't actually won at Anfield since October 1983.

17:48Anyway. Maybe that was running through his mind and then King, let's just go for this. Yeah, so Rufus gathers it and could, you know, you might expect him to just collapse and, you know, waste some time, roll around or whatever. Right. But no. Thanks to IFA, people don't do that anymore. Well, yeah, exactly. But he spots Isidore seemingly, you know, the whole opposition half is empty. But Isidore is in a position that he might be able to latch onto a pass. and Roves plays this incredibly accurate through ball from out of his hands, sends Isidore through, he rounds Alisson. Who had Enrico Chiesa being the fastest man on the pitch on that bingo card?

18:26Federico Chiesa. Oh, yeah. That really would have been. What's he doing there? But yeah, there's Chiesa to save it off the line and Roves, there's a clip of him, his reaction, thinking, I've done it. I played one of the greatest assists of all time and then is like banging, banging the turf. I would posit that Anfield is the home of that specific assist because Alisson's done it a couple of times. It's a salary against City, didn't it? And Manchester United as well. So maybe there's something in the turf. To Charlie's point, I think it kind of speaks to the fact that James Pearce, writing for the Athletics, said the fear factor's gone from Anfield.

19:02And I think also the attitude that the Briss has got in the Sunderland squad is so impressive. When they lost to Fulham the other day, he kind of came out and said, you know, it's unacceptable. You don't normally hear that kind of language from a newly promoted club's manager. You know, they're normally a lot more positive. Yeah, and, you know, it really feels like they're competitive in every single game. And Liverpool have just lost their swagger to the point where, you know, Sunderland feel they can get last-minute equalisers from their own penalty box against them. Or even winners, in fact.

19:34Sorry, winners, yeah. It reminds me of the Moyes season at United where Old Trafford went from in this fortress to suddenly everyone was like, Like, we can end a hoodoo here. And everyone was going and smashing, like, you know, 50-year runs that they hadn't won there. Yeah, I mean, West Brom, Newcastle, Everton. All having some fun there. All right. One potential positive for the home side was the fact that Florian Wurtz sort of scored a goal. Well, for about a minute, it looked like he had, and then it got chalked off him. Right, OK. But yes, great feat. OK, yeah, lovely. Massive deflection of Mokielli.

20:09The Sunderland goal had also taken a deflection off Virgil van Dijk, who is amongst those players having a difficult time of it at Anfield. Mo Salah, another of them, he was still on the bench when all this was happening. We think that was him anyway, because there was somebody there essentially dressed like... Did you ever see the Kevin Bacon... Actually, no, the Claude Rains invisible man. Do you ever see that? No, no. I mean, it's Mo Salah on the bench at Anfield in terms of visually. Liverpool dropped to 11 points off leaders Arsenal any fresh conclusions about them or Sunderland from that?

20:44I think the only thing with that the Salah situation it just feels entirely unsustainable it feels kind of Cristiano Ronaldo at Manchester United I know it's early to say that but does he seem like the kind of player who's going to be happy being sidelined in this way? It's rare to use the phrase AFCON's come at a good time but I think it has It's mad isn't it? Yeah I mean just how wrong everyone got everything about Liverpool this season but that yeah you'd be saying probably good to get rid of Salah for a bit Salah only tends to speak when he's kind of unhappy and you know wants a new contract so I imagine there'll be a flurry of interviews if he stays on the bench Sunderland who are 6th now in the table how many points off top 5?

21:27top 5? none oh it's just goal difference 3 goals behind Palace wow they won't be looking forward to AFCON I think we've mentioned this before but they are going to lose a lot of players Sunderland yeah And we've also mentioned that on our favourite XG table, they're actually third bottom. So they are overperforming. Teams can overperform for a whole season, it hasn't been known. Aston Villa, for example. Sunderland next up will be taking their overperforming antics to the Etihad. You have to go back to January 1998 for the last time the Black Cats won at Man City in what we now call the Championship.

22:05Kevin Phillips it was with the only goal at Main Road Alex with Somerville he has to deliver and Phillips and he's got his goal seven games running he's equaled the record he's got a little bit of help but who's complaining not Kevin Phillips 1-0 he was in the Sutherland then last night was he? Kevin Phillips oh yeah oh nice okay again a rare player Phillips who has more hair in retirement than he did as a player. Well, I would say that the numbers of such figures is increasing. Well, yeah, but I think this is natural. Oh. Conte. For the bulldog town hitman. I do think he just... Doesn't cut his hair anymore.

22:49Yeah. I wonder what his next year was in that 30-goal season. We'll never know. It'll probably work out. We'll hear about what Man City did on Tuesday soon enough, but can you rule out Sunderland getting something at the Etihad? I can. Okay. I don't think it will happen. I think, you know, having to play Liverpool away and then with a day's less rest going to Etihad, like I imagine that would have taken a huge amount out of them. I mean, City didn't rotate at all against Fulham. You'd think they would and have the squad that they could absolutely do that. So, yes. I mean, we saw, didn't we, you know, Bournemouth's bubble burst a little bit in a City away game.

23:27Right. I think City will have too much for them, as great as they've been. Okay. Next up, let's get on to the team at the top of the table. but Arsenal themselves are facing a potentially bubble-bursting fixture again this coming weekend.

23:44This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye, and the very best football writers around. Arsenal Wednesday night beating Brentford 2-0. Mikel Marino, who's a useful guy to have around with the first goal and then setting up the second, which didn't come until the 91st minute, 80 minutes after his opener, 80 sometimes nervous minutes for the Premier League leaders. But Marino, eh? Four goals and three assists in the last six matches. Should they just give him the starting centre-forward role and have done with it?

24:24He's another one. I mean, talk about how wrong or how unpredictable something would have been. I mean, Arsenal went and spent whatever it was, 60 million on Jochores. Finally, they've got a number nine. They've also got Kai Havertz. The idea that Marino, I mean, he did it in extremists our season and did really well, but in a kind of, you know, he was an emergency player. I mean, he'd never played at any level as a striker until being chucked in in February to do it and scored two in that game away at Leicester. He is a remarkable player because I just can't really think of an equivalent to him.

24:57He's so unique. And I imagine for opposition teams and for centre-backs, it is quite a strange assignment. What do you do with this guy? He doesn't take any sort of regular striking positions until all of a sudden he does pop up and scores a header. Michael Cox is pointing out that in the games where he has just operated as a sort of static number nine, he's not been very good. But this current role where he kind of drops deep and then just pops up, he's such a good header of the ball. Remember that one in the Euros for Spain, huh? Yeah. He was in front of his man last night, doesn't he? I think Alan Smith said on comms he's thinking like a centre-forward now.

25:29It does feel that way. I'd argue that first goal was one of the most aesthetically pleasing basic goals you'll ever see. Like a little drag-back pass from Madueke. Lovely dinked cross from Ben White, who was really impressive on his return to the team. And then, you know, Marino doing what everyone tells kids to do with headers is head it down. Well, they say, don't head the ball these days. But also, if you do, head it down. I mean he scored this calendar year 21 goals for club and country for a player who started it the perception being he was a fairly workman like centre mid I mean he was bought as a Xhaka replacement so it's kind of the equivalent of Xhaka suddenly repurposing himself as this sort of prolific striker I mean Arsenal have been quite fortunate with kind of the signings that I think fans have thought have been underwhelming in the last few years when they signed David Rea it was like well why do we need him we've got Adam Ramster but they've all sort of come to it great save he made last night he did yeah I think Marino though is less fortune and more incredible coaching I mean it's to have actually repurposed this guy and made it work to be without three strikers and just then find a way of making this work is down to that so Joico is already back and Havertz is still a little bit away a couple of weeks away yeah they can't send him to the AFCON can they no ok well Arsenal extending their unbeaten run to 18 matches in all competitions they are 5 points clear Next up, though, a visit...

26:55I didn't mention the injuries. Oh, well, I was going to get onto that now. But, you know, we can mention it now. Go and mention those injuries. Yeah, I mean, injuries in Arsenal go hand in hand, but there are a couple more. In that game, Mosquera went off, so down to the last 400 centre-backs. And then, more worryingly, Declan Rice was substituting the end. Humbling. Pointing at his calf. Although, as Dan reported this morning, He said afterwards that he's going to be fine. Oh, did he? I think so, yeah. He told Sky, apparently, off Mike. Yeah, well, I mean, I thought you were going to say Arteta had a whinge at the Premier League as well, which I was fairly unsympathetic about, to be honest, given that he's kept Rice on the pitch when Arsenal were cruising, notably against Spurs and Bayern.

27:41He played 90 minutes when they were pretty comfortable in the last 10-12 minutes of both those games. But yeah, he said afterwards that the Premier League needs to consider the well-being of the players. And I think he's unhappy that Arsenal have got a 12.30 kick-off on Saturday against Villa. So it is three games in seven days, but Wednesday to Saturday is a pretty standard schedule, isn't it? Although, if you played on Wednesday in the Champions League, you wouldn't be playing at 12.30. Also true. Yes, well, I guess that is his gripe. When did Villa play? Also on Wednesday. But equally, that doesn't help the well-being of the players for either team.

28:18Villa are arguably in even better form than Arsenal could you say they are let's see what numbers can I throw at that assertion 12 wins from 14 sorry Dan 6 in a row yeah they've won 6 in a row but it's very hard to remember and they've played in most of those wins right barring last night well you can make it 12 wins in 14 in all competitions after the terrible start they had when they didn't win any of their first 6 it's it's quite the turnaround and Yeah, that's in all comps though, isn't it? That is in all comps. Two of Europa League. All right. Well, they are in good form. No, they are. Four straight Premier League wins is never easy at any time.

28:56Oh? I mean, they don't have the best XG as well, isn't that? Yeah, they're scoring a lot from outside the box. Right. I think they're just on one of those runs. Right. But it may well continue on Saturday. Here's another number. 20. 20 out of 25 home matches that Villa have won. While the Gunners have only drawn their last two away games. That was at Sunderland and Chelsea. Plus, Unai Emery is a manager who's done more to scupper the championship hopes of his old club than most people in recent years. And not just when he was actually managing them either. Last season, Villa came from 2-0 down at the Emirates to take a point.

29:34And two seasons ago, Villa did the double over Arsenal, who went on to lose the title by two points. Yeah. I think they lost five games and two were to Villa. Two were to Villa. So Villa is a key fixture in your Arsenal potential title run calendar. Yeah, it's quite an odd thing because for the second weekend running, Arsenal are playing a team six points behind them with the chance to kind of really insert themselves into the title race. You know, if we were talking about Chelsea in that way, I haven't really heard the same said about Villa. And, you know, maybe that is, well, I wouldn't have thought that's to do with those underlying numbers.

30:09I think it's just with a general impression that they probably wouldn't be able to last the distance. but if they win they're three points behind Arsenal and also in one of the quirks of the Premier League fixture computer that baffles Continentals Arsenal will play at home to Villa on December 30th as a quick turnaround most countries will do just standard which is better to be fair we're definitely well I don't know I think it is I like that quirk I like the unpredictability do you like the unpredictability yeah they don't want the uniformity when you go in a dictionary we played them in match day 15 B to be followed by M for example and then throw a cue in there.

30:43Keep us guessing. I don't know. Anything else on this game? I think Villa should feel as if it's an opportunity. I mean, if Mascara doesn't play and Saliba's not back, then it's a really makeshift defence. Especially with Watkins back in the goals. And Watkins backscoring, yeah. And Villa have got a pretty full squad. I mean, Barkley's injured. And we don't know about Martinez. He pulled out in the warm-up yesterday. Right. But Dan, thank you. though we haven't even mentioned what Villa got up to midweek 4-3 their victory down at the Amex they were 2-0 down in that game and as I mentioned at the start Brighton hadn't actually lost at home since the start of April when Villa again managed to get the win there what was their performance like were you able to see any of this yeah I saw some of it I think it was a great fight back and I think the most encouraging thing as I just mentioned is that Ollie Watkins scored twice I don't know if Duncan's got any numbers on him, but he'd been on a long drought before that.

31:45And it really felt like he was struggling for fitness and he'd kind of fallen out of a rhythm. So to get him back, especially as you said, against not just one, but potentially two quite big games against Arsenal this month, it feels like great timing for Villa and for him. The club he supported and has scored against many times. He obviously in that game in 23-24 ended Arsenal's title. But then when they showed, was it a few weeks later when it actually did fail, they showed the Villa players celebrating that game and Oli Watkins notably just sat there. Which I always think, you know, football is their job.

32:20It's literally, it's your job and they will score when they get a chance. But he may not have been happy about it. And weirdly, I don't think he's been in good form for most of this year since he was obviously heavily linked with moving to Arsenal in the January transfer. Right. So there's many narratives all coming together at 12.31. won. And not just around that fixture either. Woof, that's your Saturday lunchtime game. Elsewhere on Wednesday night though in the Premier League, while Leeds climbed out of the bottom three, the other two sides in there sank a little deeper. Wolves are now 12 points from safety after losing 1-0 at home to Nottingham Forest.

32:55They've now lost three games out of three under Rob Edwards. Igor Jesus had one goal ruled out after a lengthy delay but eventually got the game's only goal. His sixth of the season. Burnley also lost 1-0 at home to Crystal Palace. Daniel Munoz on the stroke of half-time. That's now five defeats in a row for Burnley and Palace have risen to fifth. We'll get on to Tuesday's action next.

33:28This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. If it's a title race you're after, The Formula One season offers a dramatic climax this weekend. For the first time since 2010, three drivers can still win the title going into the final race. You can follow all the build-up, Charlie, and the fallout too from the final Grand Prix in Abu Dhabi this weekend with The Race from The Athletic. And that's available wherever you get your podcasts. Wow, who was watching? Who was clever? who was prescient enough to choose Fulham, Manchester City for their Tuesday night entertainment.

34:12A. Duncan. They were richly rewarded, weren't they? They were. And yet it seemed for so long that game was heading in a very different direction. Manchester City, you may know, no team in the history of English League football has as good a record against any other club as City do with Fulham. And when they went 3-0 up with most of the first half played, it looked like yet another big, big City win. Yeah, it's rare to see a game pivot from an enjoyable romp to an instant classic so quickly. But, I mean, obviously the initial interest was around Haaland reaching 100 goals faster than anyone, beating Island Shurers' record of 124 games doing it in 111.

34:53Hit the post early on. And a glorious assist from Phil Foden. Yeah, but then did it with a lovely sort of swept finish. and yeah, it looked like City were going to romp to a win that would have put them, you know, I mean, they got three points either way, but I think the game raised more questions. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? And what answers does it give Marco Silva on the Fulham bench as well is one other thing we might talk about. So 3-0 it went, but then just before half-time, Emil Smith-Rowe with another nice header. Yeah, makes it 3-1. Some consolation perhaps. Perhaps Mancini respond by slapping them back with another two goals to make it 5-1 at this point.

35:35It really looks like it is all over. But around about the time you switch over from the Spurs-Newcastle game, Charlie, Iwobi makes it 5-2. Really good finish, yeah. And then Chukwesi, who's never been a prolific scorer, bags two in the space of, well, five, six minutes. Remarkable. It was very well timed because it was half-time of the Spurs game just as Fulham were getting that third and it was becoming really interesting. And then that made the half-time, you know, and let's be honest, from that first half of Spurs. Which wasn't great. No, it really wasn't. It did have that feeling, as the girls started going, it had that slight feeling of when you're at a party talking to someone and you can hear loads of people laughing and having what seems like a really fun conversation in the other corner of the room.

36:17And you're kind of like, can I hurry this along? What's your go-to technique? Just walk away. Yeah. Really? Duncan, are you just a walk-a-wayer? Yeah. no you can't just walk away I bet you are though aren't you no I'm not you just surely just get a drink toilet card get a drink is always down your drink fake a sheet yeah well that's the thing if you don't if you're miles from finishing your drink and you're kind of like how do I well you've worked that wrong haven't you really well yeah yeah it's a difficult one anyway back to this game is there a better stadium for a sort of rainy midweek game than Craven Cottage particularly with the slightly adjusted camera angle in the new stand, which I think is the best camera angle in the Premier League Oh really?

37:00Kind of almost you're on top of the game A sensi-soccer vibe A little bit, yeah Maybe kick-off too, a little bit more but as Fulham were sort of piling on the pressure, and they very nearly could have made it 5-5, but for that Guardiola clearance you mentioned earlier it just, it sort of literally sucked you in, literally unfiguratively There was also that pull-back just before which Fulham had packed men in the box and he just needed to pick someone out and he somehow, it kind of missed everyone. But then yeah, they had that late one. Was it going in? It was going in because they weren't totally sure in comps.

37:37It did look like it was. It's actually a really good clearance as well. He anticipates it really well. And I did enjoy the difference in noise from the Fulham fans from Smith-Rowe's very consolation-y goal to make it 3-1 and then the noise for the fourth which was the proverbial roof coming off the swimming pool shattering. Well, well done to Fulham. They don't get any points from it, but a boost perhaps for them ahead of their weekend's game, which is against Duncan... Crystal Palace at 4.30 on Sunday. Home or away? At home. So people can tune in for the camera angle and probably some rain. So, yeah.

38:13Yeah, very possibly. Very possibly. For Man City, though, are there some serious questions here? Already last weekend against Leeds, we saw them let a two-goal lead slip. and here they were pretty panicked in that second half, Dan. Yeah, they were. They looked like they're a team that knows how to score but struggled to keep them out. I mean, my sort of prevailing theory on Manchester City is really, really good when they've got a fit Rodri in the team and really... Are there numbers to pack that up? Really not very good when they don't and I know it's more complex than that but it does seem like whenever he's missing they feel like a team that can be got at and a fallible and a kind of fun but slightly unserious and kind of lose that sheen that they have with him in the side, which reminds me a bit of Chelsea and Caicedo as well.

39:01There are numbers there. When you've got a midfielder that can literally do everything on the pitch, it's very hard when that player's out the team. I mean, the Rodri question is one that's been pretty well documented for a while now, I guess even since that Champions League final. It did seem that Guardiola had managed to find alternatives to get his team ticking even without Rodri, but what did you make of their second-hour performance? I mean, Nico Gonzalez is quite good, but he is quite inconsistent still. I think the concern I'd have maybe is Donnarumma seems a little bit wayward. I think he's definitely getting used to our league.

39:40He's always been slightly weak on crosses, but he's obviously getting battered from pillar to post in games and Fulham definitely targeted him in the second half. And on the verge of becoming the first Premier League keeper to get a five yellow card ban in the league's history. Jens Lehmann got eight in a season in 06-07 for an incredible variety of offenses. So for Donnarumma, it's three for descent and one for time-wasting but as you say, one more yellow card between now and... It resets at the start of game week 20, I believe. At least that's always what it was. So about six matches now to go.

40:15It's remarkable that he would pick up four yellow cards already at this point of the season. And he didn't start the season with Man City, did he? No, it's an incredible ratio. Maybe speaks to how rattled he's been by our league. The Jefferson Lama of goalkeepers, I call it. Excellent, well there you go. Any other conclusions about this, apart from the fact that it was a rip-roaring slice of Premier League entertainment? We'll see it again and again down the years, won't we? Remember that game when Fulham lost 4-5 to Man City, we'll say. And we'll say, yeah, we do remember, yeah. I mean, I guess the only thing you'd say with City is, from those two games, they have clung on and not...

40:51No harm's been done, despite the sort of mad capers from it. And so they've stayed on Arsenal's coattails. I said this last week, they've never lost a title race under Pep. The only time they've lost it is when they've not been in it. So if they can... They will think, I'm sure, if they can just stay in the room, which they are doing they'll always have a chance and get Rodri Fim and get Rodri Fim well they're five points back at the moment but should Arsenal drop points again away from home this weekend and City win their clash at home to Sunderland big ifs perhaps but we shall see then we might see that margin alter Thomas Frank's Tottenham Troubled latest Spurs went to St James' Park on Tuesday night and after Sunday's dismal defeat to Fulham they picked up a point and some positives yeah Charlie I mean ish really yeah I mean yes there were positives in that they you know tough place to go they fought back twice twice that penalty was a bit iffy yeah yeah yeah the second Newcastle goal yeah it was but they still only had two shots on target none in the first half for the fourth Premier League game running created a little bit more it is a very low bar that we're talking about here I mean you know Bergvau in the first half had a kind of improvised flick over and it was kind of like wow what a chance what a move they've passed forward and hit the ball towards goal like what is this but really Newcastle were much the better team were raging about not winning You know, I think if Spurs had, you know, it sounds harsh because it is a good result.

42:38The result is good. But I don't think there was loads in the performance that told you a corner had been turned. They still made creating chances look not just hard, borderline impossible. Like when you're watching them sometimes, you're kind of like, you sort of forget how chances can be created. Because it's sort of like, but there's no space. You know, how does one do this? Why didn't Newcastle beat them then? Well, I mean, they conceded a very weird second equaliser. Right. Which... Weird, was it, or strangely magnificent? I mean, both. Right. It was... And neither, at the same time. It was kind of...

43:13It was a very odd one. I mean, Romero's on the floor. Yes. Clambers back up and does this sort of overhead bicycle kick off his shin. Right, in slow motion. In kind of in slow motion that they're about... Basically, every Newcastle player is between him and the goal. and it somehow misses them all and Ramsdale really should be saving them. I mean, clearly he's unsighted and they were wasteful, Newcastle, you know, with the chances they created. We did some bowling, didn't we, at the Athletics Christmas shindig last week. We sure did. And it felt a little bit like that as he was like, well, the ball's down, it's going down the lane, let's see what happens.

43:47And it took so long. And Ramsdale, I mean, he may have been unsighted, but he did, I don't think he covered himself. No, good night for Nick Pope. All right. Newcastle with their underwhelming league campaign continuing then but no real reasons for Spurs to feel that there's an uptick on the horizon? I don't know, I mean, what did you think Dan? Maybe I'm being overly harsh but it felt a little bit more of the same but this time they got a couple of goals. Yeah, I think as you said you can paint it as a real positive because it's been a bogey ground for them in St James' Park over the last few seasons and they've had some proper hidings there as well but there wasn't a huge amount in the performance to suggest they've massively turned a corner.

44:29I mean, the real problem for Frank at the moment isn't the away form. I mean, yeah, they got spanked at Arsenal but the home form... It's your best in the league, isn't it? Yeah, the home form has been the concern and after the Fulham game it really felt like the dressing room and the crowd were at loggerheads. There's been some issues with the players and Frank, obviously, van der Ven and Spence kind of ignoring him a few weeks ago. So it feels like there are a lot of threads broken at Spurs. Van der Ven's presence on the bench, was that him being rested because of the fixture pile-up? Van der Ven has had a lot of hamstring injuries.

45:04It would totally make sense to rest him. And I do think part of what made this midweek very entertaining and a bit zany was the fact that everyone was rotating because no one can play three intense Premier League games in a week. It's too much. Who clearly saw the Spurs game as the one to target the Spurs. Quite rightly. But Dan, if you can don your Spurs hat again for a moment, where do you sit among the spectrum of Spurs fans that feel that there is hope, there isn't hope, time should be given, time should absolutely not be given to the current... Yeah, so I'm the Athletics' Frank out correspondent.

45:38Are you? Yeah, I'm just being brought on all the podcasts to say... To kick him. He's not right. Yeah, I don't mind saying that. My instinct is that it's Nuno all over again in that Frank's obviously a very capable coach. I think he's been a brilliant coach before Spurs. I think probably if he is sacked, he will be a brilliant coach somewhere else after Spurs. But I don't think he's right for Spurs. And I think the big question for me at the moment is really just can he change? Because the performances and the approach, particularly in the Arsenal and Chelsea games, where they posted the lowest XG, I think, pretty much since XG began, it was dreadful.

46:18that approach clearly isn't sustainable so the big question is is he prepared to be more front foot take the game to these opponents because that's what Spurs fans want to see and there's no future in playing the way he has played in the majority of games so far I think Well they're at home too his former club this Saturday 3 o 'clock Spurs under Frank have the second worst home record in the division they haven't won at home since the opening day of the season and since that day they've had an XG of less than one in all of their six home matches which is kind of the most scary stat of all I think.

46:56That's terrible, I mean that is terrible. Wolves haven't scored in five games and they've got a higher XG than Spurs in most games. I do think it isn't just bigger picture. It is interesting that there are so few examples in the Premier League of a manager going from a kind of up-woody mobile mid-table club to one of the, in inverted commas, big six, and it actually working. That would seem like such a common sense approach, and yet, apart from Pochettino, Harry Redknapp, it seems to be littered, and players it works all the time. I mean, Declan Rice, Caicedo, Ezzer, all these players seem to be able to make the step up.

47:33But yeah, there's the Roy Hodgson's or the Graham Potter's, and now Thomas Frank, David Moyes, yeah. The Athletics Tactics podcast covered this very subject last week. Oh, did they? What did they say? which essentially what Charlie just said. So, yeah, he's a nice praise team. But the two examples that you do give of it working both did happen at Suttonham. They did, yeah. But, I mean, yeah, Nuno's another example of it really flopping. Yeah. I think the key difference, I mean, Harry Redknapp doesn't fall into this category, but Pochettino, I think, was kind of ahead of the curve tactically. He, at the time, the only coach in the Premier League who was pressing like he was playing the kind of football was Klopp.

48:09Guardiola hadn't arrived yet. So he was really ahead of the curve. And I think Frank, for all his qualities, and he is clearly a really good coach but I don't think he's ahead of the curve and I think for Spurs to really be successful presuming the ownership continues the model broadly that they've had over the last 25 years I think they really need a coach at the cutting edge You need a coach to come in and kind of almost be bigger than the team, bigger than the club Like a Mourinho, someone like that or an Ange for a time So are you advocating change immediately? Well, I don't want to say he's got to go because you can be made to look very stupid in football, obviously.

48:47But from what I've seen, this is not going to work. Right. This approach. So as I said, it's either he changes or it's a kind of slow death, I think. And it's kind of made worse by the fact that Brentford, many tip them to struggle as soon as Frank left and they've actually maybe even improved. And, you know, they look really good. Well, they gave Arsenal a far harder game last night. Than Spurs did. As you said, he's playing his former assistant, his former set-piece coach, on Saturday at home when the atmosphere will be really difficult if Spurs don't make a good start. So that could be a tough afternoon for Spurs.

49:23Brentford and Spurs both on 19 points as it stands, although Spurs have somehow contrived to have a better goal difference. As for Newcastle, fresh from that 2-2 draw with Tottenham, they also will see their manager take up against his old club this weekend, Saturday at 3 o 'clock. They are hosting Burnley, where Eddie had a brief and not particularly happy spell back in, when was that? In the mid-noughties, I think, wasn't it? He left Bournemouth, went there, came back down again. Oh, Scott Parker, also up against his former club, although he never managed Newcastle. He did play for them between 2005 and 2007.

50:01Magpies have won their last six meetings with the Clarets and Burnley as we mentioned before have lost five in a row so yeah we shall see also coming up on the weekend on Sunday you've got Fulham against Palace and Brighton against West Ham Saturday 3 o 'clock Bournemouth host Chelsea and Everton take on Noddingham Forest Everton who were 1-0 winners Tuesday at Bournemouth again we haven't actually particularly mentioned yet Jack Grealish there with a deflected effort, getting Everton their second straight away victory. Afterwards, Jack Grealish effusive. I would say, not even praise love, in his love for manager David Moyes.

50:43Yeah. It was a touching post-game interview. Bournemouth are on a really bad run. They've only picked up one point from their last 15 available, so from their last five matches. They have slumped to 14th spot. Crikey, why? Why is that? I think it all comes from Duncan predicting they'd get in the top four. And ever since that moment, it's all gone downhill for them. In this very room, yeah. I think it's been pinned on dressing rooms up and down the country. So, yeah. I think they are that sort of team. You know, they do go on these good spells and then follow it with a bad spell. But I think it's slightly unrepresentative.

51:19They did play all right against Everton. I mean, their manager's another one, Iria Ola, who obviously has been linked with Spurs and those kinds of jobs. And I don't know, I'd be curious to see how he would, you know, whether he could kind of scale what he's done at Bournemouth to one of those teams. To my point, I do think he is kind of, it feels like he is kind of ahead of her tactically and sort of playing the kind of football that people are looking at and saying, oh, you know, because I think Guardiola said he was influenced by him last season or the season before. So yeah, he strikes me as maybe the one Spurs should have gone for.

51:51And he's a good example as well. Like my view on Frank is that I just don't see that higher ceiling for him. Like I don't really see what's like, what is it that Spurs fans can dream about doing under Thomas Frank? It feels like, yes, he's a really solid, kind of sensible coach who could stabilise them. But I don't think many are dreaming like, wow, we could win the Premier League or something with this guy. Whereas someone like Iriola, I'm not saying it's anything like a guarantee, but at least there is a potentially huge upside because he is exciting in his approach and we've seen that kind of play out of ball.

52:22It's only from the Basque Country where all good managers spawn It's gone from a little spot under a tree. Is it? Good. There you go. Well, Bournemouth with that ideola will be hosting Chelsea, as mentioned, at the weekend. And loads to look forward to Sunday evening. Of course, Totally Football Show will be rounding up all of the weekend's games. Matt Davis Adams is going to be hosting that one. Of course, it's available live on YouTube. there might also be some reaction there to the MLS Cup Final which is Saturday night Lionel Messi's Inter Miami taking on Thomas Muller's Vancouver Whitecaps two teams who've never won the trophy before there you go very mid-naughties Champions League vibes sounds good speaking of MLS you might have seen that Columbus Crew's Wilfred Nancy is now the new manager of Celtic taking over from interim manager Martin O 'Neill who did an absolutely bang up job.

53:25He had eight games in charge. He won seven of them. Finished off with a 1-0 win against Dundee Wednesday night. And they have moved to level on points now with leaders Hearts. And they have a game in hand as well. I'm really saddened by it. I was in Glasgow when Hearts were about to play Celtic. And they were, like a lot of Hearts fans, they were so excited. And then they obviously beat Celtic in that game. Could this be the year? And it's barely December and it feels like that dream's already extinguished. Well, I mean, the direction of travel doesn't feel good. Does he have a manager coming in from MLS?

53:58Does he know their league? Yeah, we don't know. O 'Neal might be the first former Tony Football Show guest to get, you know, rack up points in a Marriage of the Month award. I don't know. Mauricio Pochettino could be another shout out for that. Yeah, fair. Well, an interesting scenario would be if they're all pining to get O 'Neal back in a few weeks or months. Seven wins in eight. Nancy struggles. Yeah, I think he said his wife told him he was going to fail, but he steadied the ship nicely. Wow. What a marriage. I know, I imagine that. I mean, O 'Neill had just tipped hearts to go on and win it, hadn't he?

54:33And then he went and ruined that by taking over at Celtic and stabilising. And maybe one of the few people in the country who doesn't think that Keith Andrews is doing a good job at Brentford. Martin O 'Neill? When did he say that? Well, they've had a quite long-standing grudge. Oh, have they? Yeah. And Roy Keane. Doesn't Roy Keane also really dislike Keith Andrews? Really? I didn't know there was all this Keith Andrews hate out there. Andrews was a pundit when O 'Neill and Keane were at Ireland, and he was quite critical, and they took Cambridge. Oh, I see. Right. Be careful what you say when you're a pundit.

55:02Yeah. You could be sitting on a managerial bench and getting it back. Eh, Dan? It could be Thomas Frank on the show next season saying, what's this Dan character? Yeah. Luckily, I've already had that from Ange. but luckily I think Frank doesn't sort of consume content in the same way that Poster Cogli did so Dan can tee off about it yeah I hope I hope I'm safe you'll find out tomorrow's press conference that you're going to this afternoon's press conference yes I could be getting a bollocking in a mere matter of hours I worry Charlie it'll take way too long getting this out that'll have to be an issue I'm joking of course many thanks for bringing us to Charlie to you Dan for being with us today on the Louve exit facilitating earlier on.

55:45Many thanks to Duncan as well and to Charlie and to you, listener. Oh, and to Jake as well, sorry, who put this all up on video. And yeah, back on Saturday with that Totally Extra on the World Cup draw and then Matt in the hot seat on Sunday night. Excellent. Have yourself a great time until we speak again for now from all of us here. Goodbye.

56:09You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.