Liverpool beat Real, Bayern outclass PSG & that van de Ven goal

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30Hard for Danish people to stop when he's going somewhere in a hurry. We round up all the midweek talking points and check into on the latest in the Premier League with Sunderland back and forth and Wolves still without a manager. All in this Totally Football Show. Wednesday the 5th of November. Hello, listener. Hope you're having a good one. We've got Tom Williams in here in the pod. All right, Tom? All right, James. Also, Jack Lang. Hello. Welcome back, Jack Lang. Thanks. And joining us, Dan Kilpatrick. Hi, Dan. Hello. What have you taken time out from to be with us this morning? From writing many stories about Max Dalman breaking records on the Athletic News Desk, amongst other things.

1:11Oh, right. He was breaking records, but you were somewhere else on Tuesday night, weren't you? I was. I was at Spurs. Wow. You were there for that goal. I was there for the goal. Wow. Was everyone looking around at each other and going, holy cow. Were they holding their heads like that guy in the meme? Yeah, it was a bit like that. I mean, I only kind of started paying attention to it when he'd kind of crossed the halfway line and it was clear what was happening. But yeah, it was a fabulous goal to see. Given that he's not new to runs like this, there were a couple last season as well, but for other people to then score.

1:42Is there not a frisson of excitement every time he picks up the ball wherever he is on the pitch? I mean, yeah, maybe this is on me. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. But yeah, he threatened to do it twice last season against Everton and Man U and kind of wasn't in such a good position and squared at both times. And he's just taken it one step further this time. He is like no other defender, I think that's fair to say, in the game. And Posse, I mean, there are a few forwards who could have scored that. I mean, maybe like sort of Haaland, but not many. He's like a racehorse when he gets going.

2:16And I was kind of thinking, foul him. You know, if I was a Copenhagen fan, I'd have been thinking, bring him down. But again, a bit like Haaland and sort of peak Bale when he played on the wing. you just can't really get close enough to him to even foul him. How close do you get? Not very. Well, they were all on the halfway line. That seemed to be the main problem. The weird part of it is I think technically he only actually went past one guy. Everyone else just ran like parallel to him. Right, off and the way. For about 40 metres, yeah. The one he did beat was really nice. He kind of did a drop of the shoulder and just like left him.

2:51But the close-up afterwards showed the closest defender was Mo Elianusi, who was their winger. And he wasn't even looking at Van der Ven. He was kind of just gasping for air and looking up into the night sky, just hoping for a rebound, presumably. Yeah, spectacular. Was that your favourite goal of the season, Dan? Yeah, as a Spurs fan, it's basically been corners, long throws and that. So, yes, fair to say it is. All right. Champions League Tuesday's results, nine matches. Liverpool beat Real Madrid at Anfield in a hugely one-sided 1-0 win. Alexis McAllister with a bullet of a header from the Slobber's Lies free kick.

3:33In Tuesday's other headline game, Bayern continued their perfect start to the season. Their 16th win out of 16 games, this one coming in their toughest fixture yet as they went to Paris Saint-Germain and triumphed 2-1. Luis Dias scoring a first-half brace, then getting sent off. PSG pulling one back late on. Meanwhile, Arsenal with three nil winners at Slavia Prague. That's the Gunners' 11th straight win, an eighth straight clean sheet. They'll be facing Bayern, actually, on Match Day 5. Ooh, on Paris Saint-Germain next, we'll have Spurs. Spurs, whose match with Copenhagen, as we've just heard, went very well, thank you.

4:07They scored twice from open play at home, then went down to 10 men, then added another two goals from open play, one of which was that magnificent coast-to-coast from van der Ven. 4-0, the final score for freewheeling Tommy Frank's high-scoring hotspot. Elsewhere, goalless between Napoli and Eintracht Frankfurt, which is pretty surprising given they shipped 11 goals between them in their previous match 1-1 for Juventus against Sporting Juve still winless in the Champions League this season 3-1 for Atletico Madrid at home to Union San Gelois Julian Alvarez, Conor Gallagher and Marcus Lorente on the score sheet for Atleti and Ross Sykes formerly of Accrington Stanley pulling one back for the Belgians Accrington Stanley Monaco won 1-0 at Bodo Glimt.

4:56Lovely goal from following Balogun of the USMNT. Did you see that? Yes, it was, yeah. Kind of Ryan Giggs-esque, rapier-like left foot finish into the roof of the net at the near post. His first ever Champions League goal. Was it? His USMNT teammate Ricardo Pepe, meanwhile, with PSV's stoppage time equaliser in their trip away to Olympiacos. and that rounds off Tuesday's action. Let's get into those matches a little bit more in depth. We're going to begin at Anfield. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Sop a slight. And McAllister!

5:45The little Argentine insures that Anfield is wreathed in smiles. Jack Lang, you were watching this quite similar. Was it to last season's game between the two sides? One goal less, but Liverpool dominance? Yeah, I thought it was a very well-deserved victory. Madrid, set up in a funny way, really. They put Camavinga on the right, which allowed Goula to stay central, which kind of worked for about half an hour. and then it became clear they weren't going to create anything. So Kylian Mbappe just looked very isolated, kind of drifted to the left, but not much happening. Vini Jr. completely shackled by Connor Bradley, which I'm sure we'll come back to.

6:33And Liverpool, particularly in the second half, just started to have chance after chance after chance. Courtois made five or six superb saves. And after McAllister had scored, Madrid just mustered nothing. And I was really disappointed by them, actually. Completely decaffeinated performance. And Liverpool, yeah, made the most of it and probably could have scored a couple more. All right. Real restricted to their lowest XG for those who set store in such statistics in a year. 0.45. They only had two shots on target, both of which came in the first half. Thibaut Courtois made eight saves. Duncan Alexander contributing this stat.

7:12Since the start of that 2022 Champions League final, when, of course, he was outstanding against Liverpool, since the start of that game until now 23 % almost a quarter of all the saves that Courtois has made in the Champions League have been against Liverpool oh my goodness I mean that is a pretty remarkable stat yeah fair play to Duncan hmm well some ways a similar performance fair play to Courtois primarily fair play to Liverpool as well if I'm saying it was a bit like last season's performance then that's the news because Liverpool this season haven't looked like their last year's edition.

7:52What was the difference, do you think? I'm not sure. I mean, McAllister played a lot better here than he has for many weeks. I thought he was good at the weekend as well against Aston Villa. There was a moment in that game when he kind of got involved with this 10-minute long kind of smouldering feud with Amadou Anana. And it was the most Argentinian thing I've ever seen, like kind of gritting himself back into form, essentially like getting annoyed, choosing to get annoyed, picking an enemy and making a thing out of it and then celebrating wildly when he won a free kick from Onana at the weekend.

8:30Here again, he picked up an incredibly cynical yellow card and kind of just like shrugged and he just looked more on it and it gave Liverpool more balance. Obviously Liverpool had some absences in attack. so I think Arna Slott's team selection was simplified for him which given what we've seen this season with him kind of booming an RA was maybe a good thing. Right. Was that Cody Gakbo being out? So Wurtz came in on the left? Wurtz was on the left. Obviously no Izak. I don't think Gakbo's been playing very well so I think that wasn't too difficult a decision to make and even though, I mean, funnily enough, they did this without Mo Salah playing particularly well.

9:10Salah was really shackled well by Carrera so on that wing you theoretically had the kind of two most dangerous wingers on the pitch in Salah and Vinicius Jr and neither had a peep for the whole match essentially Carreras was good and Bradley was even better kind of completely snuffing out Vinicius winding him up Vinicius was on the floor a fair bit on one occasion to be fair he did get a whack in the face but you know accidental and yeah I think Liverpool's kind of that fighting spirit really lifted the crowd and they were never in any danger that was a strange part of it. You say that Liverpool looked a little bit more like the Liverpool of old and I think you just look at the team selection and one of the criticisms of Liverpool this season has been perhaps that collectively as a club and on a slot as head coaches has tried to evolve the team too quickly, whereas the 11 that he set out last night, helped by the fact that players who haven't always been available were available, looked much more like the kind of team he'd put out last season.

10:20Robertson at left-back rather than Kerkers, who we know has had a very difficult start to life at Anfield. Bradley in rather than Frimpong. Frimpong, of course, who was out injured. The midfield three, Gravenberg, McAllister and Subozla, who haven't always been able to be picked because of injury and one thing and another, were there from kick-off. So Wozniak I think has been brilliant for Liverpool, or at least one of the few players who is producing consistent performances. When he's got Gravenberg and McAllister behind him, he's that much better. He obviously creates the goal with a free kick, the header for McAllister.

10:51And I think in that context, with a group of players who were used to playing with each other, it's easier for Wurtz and for Eketike to slot in. I mean, Eketike slotted in brilliantly already, but Wurtz does seem to be improving. I think he created more chances than any other player last night. So that's a clear sign of progress. And I think just having that, you know, very clearly that nucleus from last season, you know, both in the middle of the pitch and in wider areas, makes Liverpool look more like the team that they were last season. One of last season's players had a chastening night of it, sitting on the bench for 80 minutes watching his successor, Conor Bradley, shutting down Vinny Jr., then coming on for the last 10 minutes to a chorus of boos and barracking from the home crowd.

11:39Where do you stand on that, Dan? I'm always kind of wary as a non-Liverpool fan of sort of telling fan bases how they should feel about players. You know, I'm a Spurs fan. Have you booed Harry Kane when he comes back? I wouldn't do that. You wouldn't? And if someone said to me, you know, non-Spurs fan, you should do that, I would probably have my hackles up. And if someone said, it's time to move on from Sol Campbell, guys. For example, a non-Spurs fan, I would be annoyed about that. So I am wary, but I do find the Alexander-Arnold thing really odd. He won everything there was to win. He gave Liverpool the best years of his career.

12:22Well, sold Liverpool the best years of his career. Yeah. Okay, I get that he ran down his contract. they got a fee for him in the end. Real paid, what, 10 million so he could go and play the Cup or Cup. He didn't go to a rival. He went to a big European team. And with that comes, you know, new experiences, living abroad and learning a new language, as he did very quickly, as we all saw. So, you know, in terms of an exit, that feels about as good as it could get. So, you know, the implication is almost like no one can leave Liverpool. You know, you must be Steven Gerrard. or you are now public enemy number one.

12:59And I think I'm sort of wary of saying this because there might be a mob on my doorstep or my social media, but there is a kind of... Liverpool fans sort of present themselves in a certain way. You'll never walk alone unless you go to Real Madrid, in which case you are alone and you're no longer one of us. So I do find it really odd and a bit out of keeping with the kind of... Yeah, I guess they would say that that song refers to the team rather than individuals. But yes, I mean, it's part of the dichotomy. I mean, there'll be Liverpool fans who boo the opposition because they are the opposition.

13:35You never want to make them feel comfortable. And that I can totally get. Anyway. But also, I mean, they seem to have forgiven him at the end of last season, the last home game against Crystal Palace. I think he got booed a little bit before the game. And then towards the end, during the lap of appreciation, he got applause and he looked quite emotional it was like okay, he's been booed, he's been jeered but finally everyone is giving him a send off and then he comes back and actually no we're going to forget about all that but at the same time, booing is fun I think to that point it is all theatre and panto in a way and that's one of the great things about football and particularly English football so from that point of view, an opposition player coming back let's make it hard for him, let's make him the kind of pantomime villain.

14:22I do get it from that perspective. Spurs fans don't boo opposition players. They just boo their own, of course, these days. Yeah, exactly. Meanwhile, another of last year's Liverpool side was having a bit of a mixed time of it over in Paris. Louis Diaz, who was the protagonist of Bayern's clash with PSG. This looked like a real test, Tom, you were watching this, of Bayern's remarkable winning start to the season, 15 wins out of 15. but in the end it proved it looked like it was pretty easy for them. It was, yeah, it was. I mean, very promising match in that you had the defending champions against the most informed team in Europe.

15:00The first team in one of Europe's five major leagues to have ever won their first 15 games in all competitions and now 16 because in the first half they just blew PSG away completely. And I think a lot of it was to do with the way that they pressed and counter-pressed. PSG do take risks in the build-up. And Bayern really defended on the front foot. The first goal, which came in the fourth minute, comes from Dayo up in Meccano, stepping up, winning the ball back on halfway. Serge Gnabry flicks a really clever pass through to Michael Alisse. His shot is saved. Luis Diaz follows up to score. Second goal, Diaz again.

15:38Ball follows Marquinhos. Diaz, Diaz, there's the second goal! and Marquinhos shakes his team quasi selbst ein.

16:12Hakimi, who has to be helped off the pitch. Don't yet know how badly injured he's been, but it didn't look good. His left ankle really kind of buckled underneath him. And so Bayern are obliged to then just kind of sit back in a deep block for the whole of the second half. Generally managed to keep PSG at bay until Jean Neves pulls the goal back from a cross from Lee Kang-in, who was really impactful when he came on for Ousmane Dembele midway through the first half. And PSG had a good go. Could quite well have equalised, but didn't. And so Bayern march on, 16 out of 16. Louis Dears, with that red card, will miss their next clash in the Champions League, which will be against Arsenal, who are in pretty good form themselves.

16:55Hakimi, how long is he going to be out for? Any word on that? Yeah, we don't know yet. He'll be having scans today. But, you know, it didn't look good. And he has got Africa Cup of Nations coming up in Morocco. It's obviously on home soil for him. You know, I think he is probably, without too much argument, the world's outstanding right back. Big year ahead, Africa Cup of Nations into the World Cup. And it was his birthday as well. No. 27th birthday. Happy birthday, Ashraf Hakimi. Here's a horrible lunging challenge from behind that almost snaps your ankle. So, yeah, unfortunate. That PSG injury list is getting lengthy now.

17:37Osman Dembele also going off in this game after thinking that he'd equalised. turned out to be offside. Also, Desiree Douai, who's been outstanding for them, I mean, since last year's Champions League final, really. He's out for a significant amount of time as well. Yeah, I mean, it's a bit like a traditional Parisian concertina, the PSG injury list, in that it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and then it gets smaller. And it had been getting smaller. Prior to last night, the only player missing was Desiree Douai, and now it's got bigger again. Then Belé picked up a calf injury and had to go off.

18:09and there was a bit of speculation as to whether it was a good idea to start him in the first place, and Luis Enrique has copped a bit of flack for that this morning. And then, yeah, obviously Hakimi having to hobble off as well, so that concertina is getting... I don't know what noise it makes when it's expanding, but we're on that bit. One of those. Oh, sounds like PSG's injury list. Blyan, best team in Europe then? Is that confirmed, settled, done? Yeah, I think, I mean, they're better than PSG on last night's evidence. Arsenal, I think, would give them a good game. If only there was a confrontation between the two coming up soon, and we'd know for sure.

18:48But yeah, I think they look like the team to beat at the moment. Right. PSG's next match, Dan will be against Spurs. Yes. I mean, not next match, but next match in the Champions League. Yeah, I mean, the Super Cup was interesting, so there's a precedent there for a good Spurs display. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Speaking of good Spurs displays, let's get on to Tottenham 4-0 Copenhagen next.

19:17This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around.

19:40Can he go all the way? Van der Ven, out of the three! That is absolutely sensational from Vicky Van der Ven. The pace, the power, the finish. Tottenham's leading scorer with a candidate for goal of the season. Brilliant. Well, there you go. There was that moment again, Dan. What a thing. What a thing. Van der Ven, I didn't realise this, he's actually Spurs' top scorer this season. Yes, which is kind of fun for him, but I think says quite a lot about Thomas Frank's Spurs so far. Hannah asks, where does Mickey van der Vins go rank in the all-time goals by a centre-back? Great question. Yeah? In the Premier League era, Vincent Kompany against Leicester City, Philippe Albert against Manchester United back in the day.

20:33Eric Edmund against Liverpool to another Spurs one. But wasn't he playing left-back? Was this just centre-halves? I think it was centre-back specifically. One that did come to mind, the Philippe Mecses overhead kick, which he sets up by chesting the ball into the air, Milan against Anderlecht in 2014. That would be up there as well. Okay, Jack? Come back to me. Really? Nothing from Harry Maguire? I like Harry Maguire, but they're all nodded in from close range, aren't they? That's so true. Anyway, there you go. As we mentioned before, he's done this kind of run before. resulting in assists, one of which came at Old Trafford last season, which United, your next opponent, or Spurs' next opponent on Saturday.

21:21Yeah, yeah, and he's threatened this a couple of times and squared it on both times. I think Johnson finished it against United last season and there was one I mentioned against Everton. I can't remember who scored that one. Son got that one, I think. Son got that one, yeah. So, yeah, there was no one quite like him when the pitch kind of opens up ahead of him. And as I said at the top, there just isn't another defender in the game who can do what he can do. And on top of that, as you alluded to, he's getting goals from set pieces now. He scored two against Everton. I think no defender has ever scored a hat-trick in the Premier League, and I was kind of willing that to happen because Spurs look so dangerous from set pieces in that game.

22:03So yeah, he's having one of those seasons where it just feels like he's gone up a level. I guess, not to put a downer on it, but the sort of concern as a Spurs fan is, is he sort of outgrowing the team in front of our very eyes here? Because he is that good. That said, he did make the mistake against Chelsea, one of about four or five Spurs players who made a mistake for their winning goal. So he's not perfect, but yeah, it was an extraordinary moment. there was so much for you to enjoy on Tuesday night not least the fact that all four of the goals were from open play yes that is a real novelty so what was different about the game was it Spurs approach or was it the opposition well I think it was a bit of both I'm going to be on the football cliches podcast I mean look Copenhagen were no great shakes like yeah I think yeah that was it was the perfect side for Spurs to play It was a kind of perfect palate cleanser after the really grim Chelsea game, which just left a bad taste in so many ways.

23:11You know, the way Spurs played, the boos from the fans, the van der Ven and Spence incident with Thomas Frank. You know, it was a bad, bad afternoon. So this was a kind of perfect vibes booster. And Spurs did play a bit more expensively. You know, I think Xavi Simons had probably his best game. He's looked short of time in the Premier League so far, like he wants an extra touch, but obviously had a bit more time and space against Copenhagen and that really benefited the side because Spurs have desperately lacked someone who can kind of create and add a spark and make stuff happen. And yeah, they looked a little bit more expansive and kind of like they were having fun.

23:52And that just, you know, notwithstanding their very decent league position, that just hasn't felt the case in the Premier League so far at all, really, apart from possibly the Manchester City game and Burnley at home on the opening day. Yeah. It was Brennan Johnson who opened the scoring in for the injured Mo Kouros, assisted by the Xavi Simmonds. Wilson Odebeer with the second. Then Johnson gets sent off after Vareview for a dangerous tackle. It was the first record of his career, Tom. Yeah, and very avoidable. I mean, Spurs are 2-0 up. He's already scored. And I think it was Marcos Lopez, as the Copenhagen left back is kind of drifting into the middle of the pitch with the ball.

24:36Johnson slides in from behind quite lazily and trips him. Referee gets the yellow card out. And it's only when you see the replay, you realise that he had just planted his studs into Lopez's Achilles. So a pretty straightforward red card. And yeah, a challenge that he just didn't really need to make. A little bit like the Luis Diaz one in the PSG buying game. But despite going down to 10 men, Spurs then added two more goals. Van der Ven with one. And the jumper line, making it 4-0. His fourth goal of the season. Crikey. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Again, it sort of says something about Frank Spurs, but he's popped up with a few.

25:16He's a kind... He's divisive, I mean, it's fair to say. I think so. For a lot of fans, like... I think a lot of fans will tell you he's Spurs player of the season so far. You know, he's made a really big impact. but there's no doubt that they've had huge problems progressing the ball and a big part of that has been the Bentinha, as I call it, axis of Bentoncourt and Polina kind of sitting in front of the back four, not being very adventurous, playing lots of backwards and sideways passes and Davy Simmons has struggled in the Premier League but I think definitely part of that has been he just hasn't been getting the ball.

25:56There's no one, particularly when Romero was missing recently, there was kind of no one to pass him the ball in dangerous areas. So he was just kind of getting lost. So Paulina, very effective player at what he does, kind of destroying in front of the back four. Not a great kind of progressive passer in the sort of vein of Rice or Rodri, I think. Are you anticipating it being back to Palenco again for Manchester United on Saturday? Well, I mean, in Frank's defence, I think he was under a little bit of pressure after the Chelsea game. I think there's no doubt about that. But in his defence, Bergvall's now got concussion.

26:36Madison and Kulishevsky are both sideline, which is huge. I think Archie Gray's injured at the moment. So it's really those two and Papé Saar are the midfield options. Basuma's out of the picture and injured as well. So, I mean, Saar could conceivably play, but I think given, you know, United's threats and, you know, Bruno Fernandes playing in there, you know, I suspect we will be back to Bentinho. Pallioncourt sounds like a tech-bro-ing person into the world of palliative care. With Pallioncourt, you were some of the ones. Tottenham Hospice. Spurs XG last Saturday was Dan as I need hardly remind you 0.05 it was 3.31 on Tuesday night, what a turnaround anyway, we'll see how they do on Saturday against Man United but they've got some fixtures coming up Man United, then Arsenal away after the international break and then Paris Saint-Germain at the Parc des France but as you were mentioning a short time ago you already played them once this season and very nearly beat them yeah I mean it's a really tough run uh which again made the Copenhagen win so important um particularly coming off that that Chelsea game the PSG game will be will be fascinating because I think that was obviously Frank's first game he had this special operation in his words to to kind of stop PSG albeit they were massively undercooked I think it was that had a week of pre-season or something post-club workout.

28:10The first game, yeah. So that was a huge kind of mitigating factor for them. But that was really impressive. And I think all the Spurs fans coming off the back of Ange playing the same approach in every Premier League game last season were like, oh, OK, here's a coach who's going to tailor things and set up a team for every opponent. And that was really refreshing. But it hasn't quite kind of continued in that vein. but yeah certainly very interested to see how the next three go. We'll move on to what Arsenal got up to on Tuesday in a second but just one last thing. That initially hugely positive reaction to Thomas Frank seemed so sad pretty quickly given the boos and stuff that we heard on Saturday.

28:55What do you think, how widespread is that dissatisfaction and how strongly were Spurs fans turning against Thomas? Yeah it's interesting because I think I mean no Spurs fan wants to obviously feel like this already but the football against Chelsea was dreadful and totally unsustainable I think for Tottenham. You can't play that way which is to say basically stodgify the game and try and win on set pieces. You can't play like that long term as a Spurs manager. So clearly Frank has kind of made the call to prioritise short term results try and get points on the board while he's missing Solanke, Kulusevski, Madison, whilst Simmonds is betting in.

29:39And that's kind of understandable, but it's certainly not something he can continue to do. And I think if Spurs lose to United and Arsenal, which is very conceivable, kind of either side of the upcoming international break, then he's going to be under some pressure. He just will be. He was under a little bit against Chelsea, I think, given the nature of the performance. But part of me just thinks this is absolutely insane because it's such early days. They finished 17th last season and there are a lot of injuries again. So let's see how it goes. But at the very least, if Spurs are going to lose the next two, there's got to be a more swashbuckling style of defeat than they produce.

30:20Lose the Spurs way. Exactly, Tom. That's kind of what has to happen if they're going to lose the next two, I think. All right. Well, they're currently lying sixth in the Premier League. In the Champions League, they lie seventh, which is in the top eight. Very nice. top seven again it's in the top seven I see top eight because that actually means no no but I get you you're not wrong there are games of course coming up on Wednesday which may change that Arsenal meanwhile their friends a short distance away in North London are doing even better one of two teams that have made it four wins out of four Bayern were one Arsenal getting their fourth straight win away at Slavia Prague that is now ten victories in a row Sunday we were describing them as epocally good, this Gunners edition.

31:06And indeed, here's further evidence of that. They are the first English club to record eight clean sheets in a row in all competitions since Liverpool. Liverpool 105 years ago. Woof. Goals here from Bukayo Saka with the first half penalty. And then Mikel Marina, who is an incredibly useful player to have around. Yeah, I mean Arsenal's squad, we've said it countless times already this season, is just so good. And when they can bring in players like Marino, Christian Norgard played here, the kind of midfielder that is just unbelievably competent. And in this match, Arsenal, there was never half a percent of me that thought they would slip up here.

31:51They were just so supremely proficient. and then maybe even in the back line they don't often rotate at the back but here you had Piero Hincapier playing at left back looked solid looked fine and I think that is the luxury of this Champions League format for teams like Arsenal is that now they're pretty much through and they can just you know chuck two or three players into the line-up each time rest some key players they look absolutely yeah unbeatable at the moment I mean Slavia Prague did have a go in the early stages and they've got this giant 6 foot 6 centre forward Thomas Choury who was kind of getting involved with with Tussle's various members of the Arsenal back four but from the moment Arsenal kind of started putting their foot on the ball you knew that was it the penalty was slightly fortunate handball penalty that probably wouldn't be given in the Premier League Saka tucks it away and then yeah as Jack was saying you know second half helped by the fact that Marino scores within seconds of the restart.

32:56It was pretty much a cakewalk. All right. We also saw Max Dowman taking the field, becoming the first ever 15-year-old to play in the Champions League. Will Jeans points out that Max Dowman wasn't alive when the Champions League final was played on a Wednesday. He was born in 2009, was it? New Year's Eve 2009. I mean... When did they shift across to Saturday then, the Champions League final? I think it was 2010. Because 2009, United Barca was a... I'm fairly sure it was a... 2009. The final in 2009. 2009 was... It must have been 2010. It must have been 2010, yeah, because he literally wasn't alive.

33:33And 2010 was into Bayern, wasn't it? Right. And it was sunnier at kick-off than you'd expect on a Wednesday. Although it is in the summer, so maybe take that out. That is crazy that it's that... Sorry, unrelated to Dalman. They were doing the final on Wednesdays. It's just so obvious that it's a big event. aesthetically I quite like a Wednesday night I like a Wednesday night miss those days for like the biggest football event of the year sneak it in in midweek amazing that it lasted that long Duncan Alexander does stat Max Damman as well Bing Duncan it involved Teletext Max Damman is the first player born after ITV closed down Teletext to play in the Champions League for those of you who set your kind of timescales by BT and 80 makes you think or 80 and BT no makes you think I mean, the want to feel old that football throws up every few weeks, they just get more and more painful, don't they?

34:26I mean, I've barely just about got my head around the fact that there are players born in this century playing top level football. I mean, they're now World 24, 25, so of course. But a player who was born in 2009, I mean, imagine being that famous at 15, having your entire life played out in the glare of the cameras. Well, it's going to be like the grandsons of the players we grew up watching that are playing soon. I mean, there's probably already a couple of examples. We'll see a Simeone grandchild or two, I'm sure. Elsewhere, anyway, on match day four, the first half, Napoli 0-0 with Eintracht Frankfurt.

35:05That's back-to-back goalless draws for Antonio Conte's partner Pei. His European travails continue. continue. Post game, he was complaining about Catanaccio from the German visitors. It's true that since Kevin De Bruyne, Kevin De Bruyne, who's moved down to Naples, was heralded at first and then provoked some concern in the Italian press that maybe it disrupted last season's winning formula. But since he went out injured, they've scored one goal in three matches. So, hmm. Juve drew his sporting, I mentioned these before, Atletico Madrid looked good against Union San Gilouise. Thanks to Tom for correcting my pronunciation.

35:48Monaco, good for them, Tom, getting that win away at Bodo Glimt. Yes, a bit of a must-win game. They got clobbered by Club Brugge in their opening fixture, then drew against City, drew against Spurs, should have beaten Spurs, and yeah, we're kind of clinging on a little bit, so that gives them some hope of getting through to the knockout round, at least. Yeah. they've moved up to 18th spot for the moment Olympiacos drew 1-1 with PSV coming up on Wednesday Chelsea are at Carabaug that's one of the early games Man City host Dortmund Newcastle face Athletic Club de Bilbao also Ajax who are bottom of the pile take on Galatasaray you've got Marseille against Atalanta which could be good or not and a very delicate looking fixture for Benfica now of course managed by Jose Mourinho and Bayer Leverkusen.

36:40Those two teams very much out of the playoff places as it stands. We'll see what Wednesday does to all of that. Benfica indeed are in second last place. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye. Good. Next up, let's get on to the latest in the Premier League.

37:09Italy show. Premier League, still no manager at Wolves, while Monday night at the Stadium of Light, Sunderland drew 1-1 with Everton. Sunderland going fourth in the table, level on points with Liverpool and Bournemouth. Only Arsenal have conceded fewer goals than the Blackhats this season. The goal that they did concede in this match, in the 15th minute, was a bit of a special one though, eh? It was, Illiman and Di. Again, every time you watch Everton, whether they play well or they play extremely badly, he is the player who catches your eye. And yeah, fantastic goal. Picks it up out on the right wing, drive towards the penalty area, drifts across the box, moves the ball onto his left foot, tucks it inside the left-hand post.

37:55And it was just reward for what had been a very positive start by Everton. And then you get this key moment where I think Jack Grealish puts the ball into the box. Tieno Barry is about five yards out, somehow manages to put the ball over the crossbar. And this has been Everton's problem for so long now, just not having a reliable goal scorer. Sunderland start coming back into it. Xhaka equalises early in the second half. And then the second half was just all Sunderland. So I think in the end, a draw was a decent result for Everton. Are you pronouncing Tieno Barry correctly? Should it not be Barry?

38:32This is a good point, James. Yes. I mean, it depends how French you want to go. I mean, full French. Thierno Barry, I guess, if we're going to do it correctly. They were making kind of slightly mocking references to how much work he needs to do, in the words of David Moyes, Thierno Barry, in order to get up to the level I think Everton were expecting. What was his form like in France? Well, so he left Sochaux when he was quite young and he was at Villarreal last season and scored like a decent number of goals, went to the under 21 Euros with France in the summer and played a relatively significant role.

39:20I think he scored a goal in the semifinals. He scored 11 goals in La Liga for Villarreal last season. I mean, they're doing a roaring trade in selling underwhelming strikers to the Premier League because Barry replaced Nicholas Jackson and then had a kind of, as Tom said, it wasn't exactly an all-star season. It was a decent season for VRL, but I was, this is very name-droppy, but I went out to VRL last year to interview a couple of players, spoke to a couple of people just like behind the scenes on Barry. And they said then, he was like, he's good, but he's really, really raw. And that continues to be the case.

40:00Okay. By the look of it. Jack dropping names and we haven't even gotten to Gary O 'Neill yet. Debate in the office yesterday over whether Everton or West Ham were more of a graveyard for strikers. I think we settled on West Ham in the end. Did you then? Yeah, Everton have certainly had a few problems there as well. All right. He's got to enjoy them both. Enjoy both graveyards. Take them on their respective merits. All right. Callum Wilson currently thrusting his fist out above the soil, clenching at the clean air.

40:32Richard Labrie's side in the top four then who they're going to be facing at the Stadium of Light where they are still unbeaten this Saturday but league leaders Arsenal who seem to be playing everybody at the moment every time you look at a fixture it's Arsenal clever them anyway you mentioned Cary O 'Neill Tom Jack's a close personal friend take this, continue sadly he's not going to be part of our next bit of chat because that's about who's going to be the Wolves manager. He withdrew from... One time in the gym with Jack. Possibly. Possibly. And an understandable decision if so. However, it does leave the bottom of the table, Wolverhampton Wanderers, two points from ten matches in a bit of a predicament.

41:20They are still linked with Rob Edwards who's current club Middlesbrough. Been doing quite nicely. Salvaged a point though at Leicester in the championship on Tuesday night despite being down to 10 men Luke Ayling with the 96th minute equaliser but it did see them lose their hold on second spot in the championship but anyway Rob Edwards is in the frame for Wolves and the other one is, whisper his name Eric Ten Hag Eric Ten Hag definitely please I think what have Wolves ever done to you? I just think for the comedy value we all want Eric Ten Hag back in the Premier League at Wolves, don't we? How long did he last at Bayern Leverkusen?

42:05Three games. Get him in.

42:10It's a thought. Surely there must be some other people out there. Fair play to Ten Hag if he does take the job. Right. Because I'm sure he could probably afford to wait around a little bit longer, unless perhaps he thinks that he's been so tarnished by what happened at United and what happened at Bayer Leverkusen that he has to just get straight back into work. But, I mean, two points from ten games. An example of the season of someone taking a Premier League job to get straight back to work. Well, Ange is available. Ange is available. If it's entertainment, you want them both in. It sort of feels like Wolves.

42:51You can't imagine Ten Hag managing in the Championship, can you? So it sort of feels like they're maybe stuck between do they go for the presumably more expensive, kind of high-profile manager, which Ten Hag clearly is, and then perhaps have to get rid of him again at the end of the season or even before the end of the season if they look doomed? Or do they go for someone like Rob Edwards or Michael Carrick, who you could see then building again if they go down? And I'm not saying that's a foregone conclusion, but you could see building in the championship and perhaps trying to bring them back up next term.

43:26I think that's maybe they're sort of stuck between those two options, aren't they? Yeah, possibly not the most attractive position for a lot of the managers that are available. Two points from 10 matches. They are seven points, sorry, eight points from safety already. And yeah, this is Derby County territory. It is. surely George Mendes has got a manager from Portugal he can find for them which has often been their approach yeah and it worked out fine for them last time we shall see we shall see perhaps we'll have more information on that tomorrow when we're back for another Totally Football show rounding up of course the Wednesday night action in the Champions League and looking forward to the games awaiting us in match day 11 of the season which we'll see Wolves visiting Chelsea at Stamford Bridge It would be spectacular With their recent Carabao Cup Encounter, there's nothing to go by 4-3 Chelsea win Jamie Gittins With a worldie To win the game for Chelsea Wow, that's something to look forward to Anyway, we'll be chatting about all the Week 11 fixtures And of course the big news headlines From Wednesday night When we get back together tomorrow Today though, that's it for this Totally Football Show So many, many thanks to Dan For coming by look forward to reading those Max Dalman pieces yes I've got like hundreds of shells lined up we call them they're just where you kind of make an article and get it ready to go a shell?

44:57a shell yeah I'm getting very technical here so it's an article that's kind of basically as soon as Max Dalman scores in the Premier League we hit the button on the shell and it becomes an article good lord it's a bit like what was it called Operation Fulham Bridge no Operation Hammersmith Bridge yeah London Bridge wasn't it London Bridge was it with the Queen with the Queen Mother Queen Mother yeah what other shells have you got out there ready to be fired literally every event thanks to AI every single eventuality in football is now covered anything could happen and the AI machines would just click into gear Bellingham in or out of the England squad is the shell I was working on this morning alright when's the England squad kind of giving away some trade secrets here I know I feel like I'm pulling back the curtain for our listeners I love it when is it I mean, a couple of days, I feel.

45:45Right. It's like Boris Johnson before the referendum, no? He did shells. He wrote one for him, one for out, famously. Ah, yes. And then he had a lot of one, yeah. It's not the same, is it? But in a way. I'm sure we've got an Ange and Tan Hag jointly take over Wolves' shell, just in case. As a writer, Jack, are you ever asked to prepare something that may never see publication like that? I don't think I had been I'm sure I'm sure I mean you might have done a piece that never saw the light of day because events moved on yeah I can think of one Ancelotti I think which he managed to refashion into a piece successfully later on oh there's always refashioning yeah but I can't I can't but if you're making something you prepare a piece about a player who might be about to join a Premier League club and then he doesn't join that Premier League club and then you just have to spike it but I don't think I've been lucky then I don't think I've ever got I've done the research I've got like you know in my notes of probably six or seven people we thought were going to go to the Premier League and I've done all the research and interviewed people and said oh okay There was a period that summer where Tottenham couldn't pick a manager was a post-Mourinho 2021 and they settled on Nuno and I wrote about three columns on kind of people that looked like they were going to appoint and kind of you know made a few calls on it and had it ready to go this is when I was at the standard and they never saw the light of day because people kept pulling out or they kept changing their mind.

47:17It's another one bites the dust. Brutal. All right, well, best of luck with your Max Diamond pieces. They look pretty certain to see the light of day. Yes, I'm sure they will. Tom, thanks to you. Jack, lovely to see you too. Many thanks to producer Charlie and producer Jesse, who's put this one together. Listener, thank you for your company. We are here again tomorrow, if you fancy it. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

47:43you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for more great podcasts just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic on apple spotify and all the usual places we're also at the totally football show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production

48:09The Athletic FC