Liverpool outclassed by PSG, Pep v Rosenior + the dawn of De Zerbi

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1:35The Athletic FC.

1:44Mark Carey: Tobey Football Show. Wednesday's action in the Champions League with big wins for Atletico and Paris Saint-Germain. Not the first time that Liverpool have got into trouble playing five at the back, given that that's Connati's shirt number. But can they pull off a classic Anfield comeback next week. We'll talk about that. Atletico's historic sort of win at the Camp Nou. Barca classy, but losing Koubasi. And talking Premier League with Chelsea Man City and Spurs. They struggle with Zadabi, but now can they win with De Zerbi? All that and more in this Totally Football Show. Thursday, 9th of April.

2:20Mark Carey: And today on the Totally Football Show, we've got Charlie Eccleshire. Charlie, kind of football and tennis beat for the Athletic. Mark Carey is on the tactics tip for the Athletic. Is that a fair summary? Yeah, data and tactics. I'll do both. Data and tactics. Dan Kilpatrick's with us as well. He's very much on the hating on Spurs managers. That is my niche, yeah. Yeah. How are you feeling about the new fella, Dan? Mixed feelings, James. Really? Fair to say, yeah. What? What's the blend we're looking at? I think it's a shot in the dark. I sort of think at this point I would be unsurprised if Spurs took one point from the last seven league games equally you'll be unsurprised if they win you know five or seven and shoot up the table and are very comfortable I just think all bets are off now that's pretty exciting though yeah kind of kind of I think he's I think the type of football he plays is the type of football I want to see Spurs play but the big question is is he going to be able to do that well yes that is a big question or is he going to be able to do that in seven games or is going to have to compromise on the Zerbi ball.

3:28Mark Carey: Okay. It will be hard in itself. First game is away at Sunderland. We'll get on to all that later on because the Premier League has bothered to show up this weekend. It's just nice. For that, we'll touch on Wednesday's games in the Champions League. Paris Saint-Germain beating Liverpool 2-0 at the Parc des Princes on Wednesday. And same scoreline for Atletico Madrid as they got their first win at the Camp Nou in 20 years. Although that's very much specific to the Camp Nou because a little tweak to that stat, Mark. For the period that they were at Monjuic while the Camp Nou was being renovated, they did get a victory.

4:05So it's a technicality. I don't know whether you want to hold that record or not.

4:10Mark Carey: Yeah, that really shatters that record for me. Anyway, 2-0 win, a victory heavily conditioned by Cubasi's red card for the Catalans shortly before half-time. Mark, you watched that game. And Dan and Charlie, you were following PSG Liverpool. Sounds, Mark, as though you maybe had the more... Can I be fully transparent with the group? We're in safe company here. I watched the Liverpool PSG game. Did you? And I watched the Barcelona FC game this morning. Oh, right. Because when you're doing data and tactics, you get a feel for... And many people probably can do this. You can watch it on two speed and be able to still get the patterns and the feel of what's going on.

4:51there's a lot of it's really operating on a higher plane than the rest of us there's a lot of people who will be listening to this on doubles exactly yeah you kind of have to tap into it a little bit there's a lot of should we speak really slowly there's a lot of fluff in the average football game where it pans the average football podcast well no well also true I mean it pans to the managers the substitutions etc that you can actually get a real good feel for the game you're a busy guy

5:16Mark Carey: and 45 minutes is a lot more doable than 90 well I'm just committed to my work and I wanted to make sure if we can do this podcast I've watched both. But PSG Liverpool, you saw that in real time? Yes, yeah, I did. We're being shown up here slightly, Charlie. No, well, I committed to producer Charlie that I would watch the Barca Athletic. No, yeah. I just didn't say that I had to watch it live. I watched the six-minute highlights of Barca Athletic on the train to the office. At normal speed, though, Dan? Yeah, at normal speed. I think I've got a very good feel for that. I watched it on half speed, so I could really pick up on the nuances of those highlights.

5:46Are there teams that you will invariably watch at double speed because they're just so no it's pretty uniform i think i think when you when you have a team who really are quite coordinated and coherent in and out of possession i genuinely believe that you start to find the patterns far quicker because if anything it's like if i'm trying to think if you know you used to play um what's the game where you someone turns around very quickly and you have to grandmother's footsteps yes okay go on what was the alternative is that something about a wolf oh uh what's the time mr wolf it's that sort of thing where if you if you finally go speed on that if you go really slowly it feels like then you can't see the difference but if you if you were to turn around oh you appreciate the movement because it's accentuated by the double speed yeah maybe that analogy didn't hold exactly as i wanted it to but i do think that you can start to really see the coherence of the patterns in the movement when it is two or maybe even three speed at times right whereas at typical speed and watching everything for the first time you're not entirely sure what's going to happen and you can't quite get those patterns a more extreme

6:47Mark Carey: example would be those graphs that were terribly fashionable maybe five years ago those bar charts which would animate and show you the levels of goals scored by messio ronaldo or levels of richness of premier league clubs that were kind of yeah and because they were running at kind of a minute per year or something yeah it was very evident the trends yeah and the macro how people met their partners over the years. Online is sort of a zero in the 70s, and then it shoots up and church kind of shoots down, and they start kind of moving up and down. Really? What were the other categories, Dan? It's kind of like through family work, church, out and about, and online kind of shoots up to 70-odd percent or something nowadays, having started at nil.

7:32Crikey.

7:33Mark Carey: All right, we'll keep an eye on that. We're going to start, though, with the events at the Park Day Prize then. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

8:03Yeah,

8:05Mark Carey: no idea what's going on there, but Paris Saint-Germain, two nil winners against Liverpool on Wednesday night. And Arnaud Slott saying afterwards, he was happy it was just two. understandable we all watched this how impressed was everybody with the reigning european champions pretty impressed with with every i mean apart from the finishing they were really really good they absolutely battered liverpool um i mean it was although there was a period before they got their second paris saint-germain when it did look i thought like liverpool were gonna the first paris saint-germain goal was there was an element of luck involved and although liverpool famously didn't create any real shots themselves.

8:44Mark Carey: No shots on target. Three shots total. Which, you know, I'm no tactics guru, but battered, would you say, Dan? Battered. Yeah, I mean, presumably we all watched some TNT sports. Yeah. What I thought was interesting, or actually quite annoying, was Fletch and Ali McCoy constantly debating about who would be happy with what throughout the game. I felt like McCoy was getting quite annoyed with Fletch. Almost non-stop. Would Arnie Slott be happy with this in a second? but actually it ended up being quite prescient because in the end i think you could have made a case that you can i could argue now that slot would be happy and unhappy and i could equally argue lewis and rike would kind of be happy and unhappy but i think psg got the 2-0 but it should have been outside but exactly but i think that speaks how dominant psg were the fact that they'll be annoyed with 2-0 is because they clearly should have won that game three or four yeah including i don't understand how they didn't get a late penalty it was absolutely bizarre it was as if the VAR had already put his jacket on, wallet in the pocket.

9:40It was like, oh, I'm sort of done. You know, it's 4.59 on a Friday. Get me out of it. Like, it was so weird. The same thing happened in the Tuesday game as well with Bayern and Real Madrid. Not quite the same case, but the idea that actually because something happens later on in the game that it feels less relevant. You think like, yeah, to your point, let's just go home. Fans have left. Yeah. It shouldn't be the case. If that happened in the first five minutes, I think it would be completely different. And it was especially odd because you might say, oh, well, maybe it's just VAR doesn't really want to get involved but they already had for the overruling that earlier penalty the one where Canate slides in which probably was the right...

10:13They sent him to the monitor didn't they? But you have to, you can't just straight overrule that for a subjective call he has to go and look at it

10:20Mark Carey: He can't just say I accept your decision He has to go and look at it? Yeah for a call like that, unless it's an offside because that's a subjective call but they sent him over, they didn't even send him over for the second Canate and I'm sure if they had they would have given it but yeah I mean PSG really only have themselves to blame for it being 2-0. I mean, Dembele himself could have had a hat trick. We've got the stats here. 74 % possession. Total shots, 18 for Paris Saint-Germain, for Liverpool, three. Shots on target, six for Paris Saint-Germain, for Liverpool, well, none. I think that's a battering.

10:51Especially, bear in mind, some of those who weren't on target, like Dembele's from about six yards out, he skied. Yeah.

10:57Mark Carey: Dembele didn't have the best of evenings. Dewey scored a what looked like a lovely goal and I mean I still feel it was lovely even though there was an element as I say of fortune the deflection coming off Gravenberg Yeah it got a lot of topspin from Gravenberg sort of flick and then it just went over Marmadash Vili who did have a good game I suppose that's when you say about it being a battering and only being 2-0 you need your goalkeeper to have a good game as was the case last year when Alisson had probably the game of his life and then kept it to no goals Yeah good night for the Georgians indeed So the second goal which featured an absolutely extraordinary through ball from João Neves, picked up by Kvala Chicheli, who's still got a bit to do.

11:36Mark Carey: But I wondered if Mabashvili actually could have been a bit braver with that. I thought that. I thought the same. You don't want to dive at the player's feet, though, because then they can easily just go down. But at that point... You have to come in. Yeah, and the goal was scored subsequently anyway. So you kind of don't have to lose. The WSD missed loads of penalties anyway. So, you know, as a data guy, take your chance. I do wonder if that does come into their considerations. When you're doing that incredibly quick-fire calculus, but they do have this terrible penalty conversion record in the Champions League.

12:05It's just that ultimate touch he takes, though, is so good. And then he kind of feints, which I think sends Joe Gomez off balance a bit. So actually, the end of that move looks really easy, but actually it's quality. It's incredible, and it's shown by... Because Mendes tries to do a similar thing right at the end of the game. Oh, yeah, and he stumbles. And he stumbles, yeah, he miscontrols it. I mean, again, which summarises what PSG are about, that in what was it stoppage time you've got Hakimi squaring it for Mendes I mean that that's how they play they're so aggressive they're so attacking I mean they are just an unbelievable team to watch the way they stretch the pitch and you know move opposition teams around and obviously Liverpool changed their system they went for a three at the back which I think was the right thing to do because okay because Ibrahim Kanate does go aggressive at the best of times anyway in a centre-back partnership and then if you leave any gap for PSG even a half decent Premier League team Liverpool have got caught out in the past whereas it's happened quite a lot when any one of those three would go and jump into midfield and go really quite far at times they then at least knew that they've got essentially still a back four to be able to deal with it so I do think ultimately it was the right decision it's more just the optics of it that it's the champions current champions of England going to the current champions of France and the current Champions League holders and basically saying, OK, we are the minnows here.

13:23We are not as strong. I bet Thomas Frank in the North Island derbies. Yeah, or Brendan Rodgers

13:27Mark Carey: against Real Madrid back in 2014. That was a load of changes, wasn't it, that he made? Yes, it was. But it was a similar mentality. We can't possibly win this. And Slott's comments afterwards kind of echoed that. Everyone, whatever they try, comes to Paris and they get beaten, which is not completely true. But you feel that the back five was the right tactic. Why did they still lose 2-0 then? I think they were very passive. I think they were attracting a lot of, well, they allowed PSG to have the ball in the hope that they could go man for man at times and try and condense those spaces. I think it's one of those where it's hindsight bias, isn't it?

14:00But if they do get it to go away, you know, back to Liverpool with a 1-0 loss, you think, OK, it's over two legs, the classic Anfield factor, etc. You could maybe just justify the overall performance, even though, to your point, I think it was more of a battering. you could also argue Jimbo those two things aren't mutually exclusive that it was the right thing to do even if you do lose 2-0 because you play more openly it might be a worse scoreline because that's the gulf between the teams at the moment yeah if to Charlie mentioned Frank there and there have been some English teams have played PSG with this kind of special approach like Chelsea in the Club World Cup final springs to mind and even Frank Spurs in the Super Cup had this kind of special operation to nullify them and it felt like slot had been thinking about his own version of a special operation right with a kind of back five right we'll try and press them we'll try and and i mean who knows it's sort of counterfactual isn't it but i don't think it worked very well like they could have lost that game should have lost that game probably four nil um but who's to say it wouldn't have been even worse i do agree with that i think that the chelsea game is actually quite a relevant one i was at the the game in in the states last summer for the chelsea psg and the one thing that they did really well was go man for man when they needed to make sure that psg's rotations were kind of being tracked but they also had a threat in behind and they were able to actually stretch their legs a little bit and be a bit more counter-attacking whereas liverpool aside from hugo ekatike at the moment they just don't have the players who can actually run in behind and stretch psg and psg's all of their defenders not least their fullbacks are so fast even if you try and just have them in a race they'll they'll get back and recover so i think Liverpool would being defensive but then you have to have a bit of a threat going the other way and they just didn't have that.

15:43Mark Carey: Paris Saint-Germain the speed the aggression the pressing the wastefulness in front of the goal are they now back to kind of classic last season Paris Saint-Germain? I'd say they look pretty similar yeah but yeah I guess just on that Liverpool point it is true that most teams against them even if they are being overwhelmed by their attacking quality do still they are a team that give you chances we saw that with Villa we saw that with Arsenal obviously Chelsea as well and Liverpool didn't have they didn't have anything like that but yeah I mean I think PSG are getting back to that level I mean they are helped by things and this feels so alien to us like the Ligue 1 have called off their game in between in between the legs oh sorry they've moved it their following game no they've got a game in between the two legs that's not going to be happy or it's going to be postponed to I think the penultimate weekend of the season but I mean things like that you know can you imagine the Premier League the sort of outcry and all the parochialism I just can't envisage a situation where that's even considered that was the sort of story of last season right like Arsenal beat them in the league phase last season and then PSG just grew in strength and you've just so much stronger so much stronger and because they're not playing really intense matches every single weekend or playing at all yeah or playing at all which by the way you know what game that was being moved it was the game against London which is their title right so it's not like they were playing a minnow at the bottom of the league.

17:05Like they would have had to put a lot of energy, effort. There would have been a whole, you know, factor around it because everything would have been built up for it. And that game has been postponed. And Lons actually initially

17:15Mark Carey: declined the invitation. The league said, no, we're moving it anyway. So yeah, the power of PSG, Colin Miller with a totally unnecessary dig at Spurs, pointing out that in the last 15 months, Paris Saint-Germain have actually won more home games against Premier League teams than Spurs have, who actually play in the Premier League. Yeah, I was going to come around with some Northern Ireland stats to hit back a column, but I'm not that petty. So I've been a bigger man here. So is it over? Add 2-0? How happy should slot be? That's the question, you know, ask Fletch and Ali McCoy. They're probably still debating it now.

17:49As I said, I think I can make a case both ways, but I think slot's probably going to be more than anything relieved. As Mark says, there is the famous Anfield factor. Get an early goal, PSG have crumbled in Champions League knockout games before as we know Liverpool have come back from worse situations than this so stranger things have happened I think

18:09Mark Carey: Big win against Galatasaray in the home leg last time out the last 16 although different side of course PSG won at Anfield last season on the second leg I mean yeah They'll score won't they I'm just sure they will Yeah you would think so the only thing really you could say is that the fact that PSG were so wasteful does that give Liverpool the belief that maybe this is their tie? In the same way that when you play a team who are absolutely destroying you but only going at half-time to a 3-0 arc. So Dembele, who had those sizable misses in this game, was part of that Barcelona team in 2019 who let Liverpool off the hook a little bit in the first leg and then got done in the second to set up the final.

18:54The difference, I think, with that one was that Liverpool lost that first game 3-0, but they played really well. if you actually were to watch that game back. Maybe not everyone would like to. Maybe on two speed, yeah. Liverpool were really disappointed with the scoreline because the performance was actually quite good. We could beat these if you're a Liverpool fan. But I think this is different where you're like, no, there is a golfing quality. Even if we try our hardest, we could maybe get a goal or two. But PSG could easily just go up the other end and score within the blink of an eye. And then you've got to score three minimum.

19:26Yeah, I think it's comparing Apple to Orange's.

19:27Mark Carey: Okay. Can they beat Fulham, Liverpool? That's the more pressing question coming up this weekend in the Premier League as Liverpool battle to stay in the top five, a point currently ahead of Chelsea in what is now confirmed as five Champions League places for the Premier League next time around. Alexander Izak, I imagine, might be featuring in the game against Fulham this weekend after making his first appearance since Christmas in Wednesday's game in Paris. Yeah, you think he might be able to come off the bench at least. I don't know if he'd be ready to start. But yeah, I mean, that could be a factor, you know, a big difference from the first leg if he could play an hour or so.

20:07Mark Carey: Okay. Oh, Liverpool are now on 17 defeats for the season. Their record since the turn of the century, a lot of people have been chatting about this, is 19, which feels very doable for slot side with a bit of ambition. quite i'm not sure what the record beyond the start of this century is i'm sure people were keeping records before that but yes all competitions then yes if they lose to the second leg which is possible probably yeah then they're only one one to go in the final seven league games feels very likely yeah the fact that there is a league phase and the fact that liverpool have gone far in competitions means that it's kind of difficult because once you're out of a competition you can't then subsequently play to lose.

20:51But who am I to argue with a stat? That's very relevant. I think they've lost more league games than they've won since they won the opening five. I mean, it's been a really sustained period of, you won't even call it form, you know, that's close to a whole season. Wow.

21:08Mark Carey: Well, that was Liverpool on Wednesday. Paris Saint-Germain currently in pole position to take a semi-final berth against either Bayern or Real Madrid, but as it stands, probably Bayern, which would be quite a match-up. Next up, let's find out what happened in the All-Liga affair. Barcelona-Atletico Madrid.

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24:23This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay, and the very best football writers around.

24:47Mark Carey: That's the Julian Alvarez free kick, as it sounded to Mark Carey. Mark, I imagine you slowed down to see him take that, did you? To be fair, on that one specifically. Yeah, and you were rewarded. And the replays themselves were even just that little bit slower as well. I was speaking to my colleague Conor O 'Neill in the office this morning, and he did say, could the keeper have done better for that free kick? and I think it's pernickety I think I would say because it I mean it was a very very good free kick wasn't a postage stamp but still a very very good free kick I think all the credit should go to Julien Alvarez there but could Jean-Claude have done better It is a free kick where he can go either way as well which I do think makes it a bit harder for a goalkeeper Rashford from exactly the same position goes the other way doesn't he toward the keeper and the keeper does get a touch onto the bar It was a good free kick from Rashford as well It was I think if you can get it up and over the wall like Alvarez did I think it's a better percentage play than going beside the keepers on i reckon restaurants is also quite straight he doesn't get it anywhere near uh the corner which which does help the keeper but i mean that's a good example you must have missed all the var faf uh with you know yeah faf being the right word yeah just get to the action get to the free kick yeah exactly it's an incredible free kick i mean he is yeah he's operating at such a high level out of press and barcelona would like him to be operating at the camp no next season as well though a lot of other teams would too Yeah, there does seem to be a certain amount of legs to that Barcelona story, although the kind of stumbling block logically would be the fact that he's got a massive price tag and Barcelona famously don't have any money, but that just doesn't seem to stop them.

26:21Mark Carey: Anyway, Atletico Madrid have been fairly emphatic in their insistence that he's going nowhere. His record in the Champions League is absolutely extraordinary. It's his ninth Champions League goal this campaign, which far outstrips his output in the Liga. But nine Champions League goals, Atletico going deep helps with that. He also put the ball through for Simeone, which led to Kabasi's challenge and the red card. Yeah, absolutely. I think I've been on this podcast before. we've been on many different podcasts where we talk about Barcelona's high line and you just think when are they going to learn and it does work very well a lot of the time but I think maybe you and I have spoken about it Charlie where it works until it doesn't and those instances where you get caught out means that actually then that could cost them the whole tie by just being that little bit too high in their defensive line.

27:08Mark Carey: So they have a player sent off and they immediately go down a goal as well from the resulting free kick but Flick shows no desire to be happy without scoreline to borrow the recurring motif and indeed presses adletico and creates further chances i think the stats after they went down to 10 men they had 60 possession and still earn xg of 0.61 which i don't know that's probably quite high i'm not sure exactly and a game plan that largely works until it as you say it didn't when sorloss they're having just come on struck but that's just i mean it's not that they don't learn they know the lesson but they just flicks not interested in it true and if they'd have had 11 men the fact that it obviously didn't work was because they had the man sent off and then they got a sucker punch with the sorloth goal which i should come back to as well because there's some interesting stats on sorloth and how he's just a thorn in the side of barcelona but i think it's it's quite fallible with that high line because it's it's runs from deep it's if they have someone that they're marking they step up and the center forward is trying to go in behind and they really managed to to catch the opposition offside quite frequently but simeone was making a deeper run so it was kind of getting in behind and he had the forward momentum and if someone else has forward momentum and you try and go the other way that has to be so precise and then if it goes wrong it goes wrong like it did but they did it to your point though they did carry on they shuffled things a little bit eric garcia went into the back line and they still kind of kept a bit more of a well they levendofsky came off at half time as well and they basically kept yamal and rashford really high and wide and just tried to play things sort of through the central areas um and still looked pretty good for it atleti did look if not totally comfortable because they were playing against 10 men they still had that discipline to be able to sort of shuffle along and then had the the sucker punch and even though it was 2-0 i still back barcelona in the second leg i mean atleti are really good at home as well but i can see barcelona scoring two goals 11 men very easily so barcelona won at uh the civitas metropolitano this last weekend 2-1 yeah ironically it was atleti who had a man sent off in that game.

29:14Mark Carey: Yeah. So, yeah, red card's a factor, Charlie. Well, just on the same before about that split-second calculation you can make, we're talking about Mamadosh Vili, but in this instance, you would have thought, surely Hansi Flick knows there is a high risk, that there's a decent chance with playing the way they play, that players are going to be running through. That's baked in. But surely in that instance, you just say, just do not get yourself sent off because far better to let him run through. And maybe it's not entirely deliberate. He does get, the defender gets a bit sort of tangled. but just let him run through.

29:44Because if it's 11 v 11, they stand such a high chance of not losing that game on the night.

29:50Mark Carey: Am I right in saying that Simeone kind of takes the decision out of Kibarsi's head anyway? Maybe. He does. And that's not much Kibarsi can do. Yeah, maybe. It's very satisfying, by the way, when you get a double jeopardy from a free kick like that. Because we're used to it with a penalty, you know, someone's foul in the box, red card, penalty, goal. But it's just kind of rarely seen. I quite like when you get a red card and someone bangs the free kick into the top corner. I mean, because they were so on top before then Barcelona, weren't they? They had a lot of chances. And yeah, even as you say, even after the red card.

30:21Yeah, Rashford played well and didn't score, obviously. Either did Jumal. But I think with those two, Lewandowski, I don't know when Rafinha might be back. I know he's injured at the moment, so obviously he was out. But they've definitely got enough to score one, two, maybe more goals. I mean the Newcastle game in the previous rounds I mean how did they score? 7-2 7-2 and what was the aggregate score overall? They've got the quality in the team and the squad to score That was a five goals easy I know that Atleti are a different prospect But I don't think this ties over at all Atleti were very poor in the second leg against Spurs Different circumstances They had a lead and they just didn't really show up

31:02Mark Carey: Should Barcelona have had a penalty in this game for that Pubil handball incident, reminiscent of Emi Martinez and Tyrone Mings. Yeah, that was against Club Brugge, wasn't it? Not so long ago. It was a weird one. It was a curious one. And it was a one way, even the referee was kind of just looking to be like, no, you should be kicking the ball as it is a goal kick and I shouldn't be having to make a decision now. But that confusion kind of led to a lot of disruption. But then, of course, the point that Hansi Flick was making after the game was that actually VAR is there for that very reason. that confusion is kind of okay with the referee but someone then needs to intervene but it was the fact that the goalkeeper passed to to bubill he picked the ball up essentially put it back down again to take the goal kick and then passed it back to the goalkeeper and that confusion was well i think it was already on a yellow i think which he was yeah he should have been sent off and then it would have been a penalty as well and that then changes you'd imagine that the score on in the outlook of the game there was one of those with gabriel and the champions league He caused a final to Nasser and Bayern Munich as well a couple of years ago.

32:04Mark Carey: Which the referee didn't sanction and I think was hailed for the fact that he'd used good sense. Kind of, yeah. He didn't give it, but afterwards, Suka was pretty annoyed about it. So Barcelona, you favour them. Even though they haven't kept a clean sheet in the Champions League, you think they can score at least two more than Adelaide can? I think it's possible. I don't want to nail my colours to the maths too much to say. They will definitely win three or four, one even. because they do actually them going through the tie at this point yeah if it were the reverse sort of location and they were bringing it back to Camp Nou I'd be even more favourable towards Barcelona surely I'm not sure just to go back to the Solloff thing as well he was the thorn in the side and has been for Barcelona so in 491 minutes he scored six goals against Barcelona so in such a short space of time where he's played against Barcelona recently that's better than a goal a game if you average it out.

32:59So Barcelona have a lot of reasons to be scared of Solov. Should they start him? That's the difficulty. I mean, with Alvarez as well and then Griezmann. Yeah, that's the age old thing when a substitute comes on it as well. But yeah, I can see Atleti scoring a goal in the next leg. But I still back Barcelona, yeah.

33:21Mark Carey: Okay, we'll see you next Tuesday. Charlie, you want to talk about Antoine Griezmann. I want to also mention a little bit more Jamal's performance in these two games in the space of, what, four days between Barcelona and Adelete. But Antoine Griezmann. Yeah, this extraordinary, I don't know if you'd call it a stat, but that three of his four children share a birthday. I mean, that's just extraordinary. That is weird. Wow. I speak as someone... And that birthday was Wednesday. Yes, exactly. So, you know, busy day for him. I mean, I wonder how the fourth child... Well, a busy day in nine months would be...

33:50Yes, but it would have been... August of... Yeah, July. Would it be July? Yeah. Yeah, because I was thinking about that logistically. Yeah, just whether you do it, you know, are you more prolific in the off season? But I think some of those were major tournament years.

34:04Mark Carey: I'm not sure Grisman would have featured, would he? It's been a while since he's been... Well, one was 2016, so he was kind of at the... Very much. Very much there. I speak as someone, one of my... I have a child on the way who is due on the same due date as my first... No way. So my wife and I have speculated, is there something in the water? You know, are certain people at a certain time? We both work with someone in football. Yes, and I was thinking about that as well. Three children were all born in the summer, which they were very open about being planned because they didn't want the season to be disrupted.

34:43Exactly. So maybe Griezmann and his partner were sort of thinking along similar lines. But then this is a very busy time for a football. But, you know, Pete running. Maybe the thing is, you know, as a dad, there's not that much you can do for the first, you know, six weeks or so. And then, you know, you step up when the season's over. It might have been really carefully thought out.

35:03Mark Carey: Good planning from the Griezmanns. Interesting. Laminia Marl's performance, Mark. Across his two legs, any number of amazing clips of him weaving past six, seven, eight Atletico players. No end product. that was a larger condition I guess by the fact that Lewandowski had gone off and Atletico was sitting back defending their 1-0 lead I think so yeah I think because especially because as I said in that in that second half Rashford and he played far wide as trying to stretch the pitch a little because they sort of had to but uh yeah in the the league game it's been doing the rounds on social media hasn't it that it was a little nutmeg to then is it a Travella that's the the name of oh no it's not a Travella it's what's the outside of the foot Yeah, yeah, that's a trivial.

35:46Incredible pass, all in kind of the same move.

35:48Mark Carey: Oh, yeah, and there's another one later on in that game where he's marked by a couple of players, goes one way back again, then breezes past another couple of Atletico players. But yes, I swear there was one way he went past eight players, I think, in the box. Yeah. How, I mean, the close control against elite defenders or elite footballers is absolutely extraordinary. It was off the cuff as well, you could tell, because he even managed to get in a step over within all of that because he was just trying to almost move out of the way of the ball to try and still drop a shoulder. And then he was just banging on the floor after because he almost basically took on the whole team and scored.

36:21Was it Traveller's around? Googling the Luka Modric passes.

36:24Mark Carey: Well, it goes back to charisma. Ricardo Carisma. I would associate it with charisma. He was more of a shooter with it, wasn't he? He could shoot with it. Whereas I think there was Modric passes he would play with it. I think we had a Traveller on Tuesday. And, you know, again, from a Portuguese provenance, Diamandis' remarkable ball, which very nearly put Araujo... It did put him through. Well, it did put him through. Yeah, nearly set up an opening goal for... Incredible, yeah. ...sporting against Arsenal. That was a triveler, in as much as we're qualified to call it that. I don't know. Quaresma, if he's got any sense, will have TM'd that shit.

36:59Yeah, Quaresma should have kind of claimed ownership of that, really.

37:03Mark Carey: Quaresma? Well, yeah. Yeah. You know, it should be called the Quaresma. Absolutely. Very good. Okay. That's the Champions League midweek action from Wednesday. We've got more on the way next week. Next up, though, how's about we chat about that Premier League?

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39:51You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious technicolour on YouTube at The Totally Show.

40:04Mark Carey: Premier League match day 32 begins on Friday night with West Ham taking on Wolves. The Hammers who were actually the first team that Wolves managed to beat this season. Saturday lunchtime, you've got Arsenal against Bournemouth, which is a Basque reunion for Arteta and Idaola. Two games at three o 'clock on Saturday, Brentford-Everton and Burnley-Brighton. At 5.30, Liverpool take on Fulham. Then on Sunday, four matches, three of them in the early 2pm slot. There's Palace-Newcastle, the King Charles shopping list derby. And there's Sunderland-Spurs. Spurs, by the way, could be in the bottom three by the time that kicks off.

40:45If West Ham will get a point, I guess,

40:49Mark Carey: they need a win. Need a win against Wolves at home on Friday. But yes, could be in the bottom three at kickoff at the Stadium of Light. And then Forest Villa, the Centre Park's derby, as we like to call it. 4.30 on Sunday, Chelsea-Man City with a coda on Monday evening of Manchester United taking on Leeds. Leeds who haven't won a league game at Old Trafford. Since 1981, many of those years, of course, they didn't have league games at Old Trafford. Quite a rant. What are you most looking forward to seeing, Dan? I'm duty-bound to say Spurs at the Stadium of Light, I think. All right. First game for Dezebbi in charge of Tottenham.

41:32Mark Carey: I guess the reception is less of a question because they're away from home. So how effective do you think his changes will be after such a brief period in charge? Well, I think, as I sort of alluded to at the top, a big question or the big question is, is he going to try and play kind of full Deserby ball in the last seven games? Or is he going to be a bit more pragmatic and think, you know, I've got a rescue mission here. I need to do whatever I can just to get this team over the line, win two or three games in whatever style possible. and I think there's inherent risks in both really I have visions of Antonin Kinski he's going to have to play because Vicario's recovering from hernia surgery he's going to have to play for the first time since that first leg He's got to roll in the ball on the studs Well yeah, exactly I've got visions of him with his studs on the ball kind of baiting the Sunderland press and this sea of red and white shirts sprinting towards him and just the Spurs back line kind of nervously hiding wherever they can.

42:37Or is he going to say, well, look, Tuerza played agricultural football for most of the season under Frank and Tudor, and I'm just going to make some small tweaks and give the players a bit of confidence, put an arm around their shoulders, tell them how good they are, and try and creep over the line and then start again in the summer. What's your guess? It doesn't sound, the latter doesn't sound like a deservedly. He suggested that he's going to be a bit more prophetic. Oh, really? So he did an interview. His first press conference this Friday afternoon, where I imagine he'll reveal more, but he did say in his first interview with the club that he would, I can't remember the exact wording, but the implication was certainly that he was just going to do what was necessary.

43:14But I think when you get a manager who is all about this kind of searing intensity and commitment to his style, it's actually presumably quite difficult to come in and not commit to that and pull your punches a bit. And I do think we sort of forget, you know these managers this was something andrew always said although obviously he did then compromise for the europa league but you know he plays that way because he thinks that is the best way to get results and deserve he will feel that as well he's not doing it because he wants to entertain and that kind of thing that he thinks this is how you win football matches so i don't know how easy that will be for him to to really compromise on that from his first five games at and they were very entertaining um for two points i think it was in fact and the first game is a 3-3 draw against Liverpool.

43:59And, you know, they immediately looked, you know, like a really interesting, exciting team. But I think Lewis Dunk is on record saying they didn't know what was going on in the first couple of months. And then once they got up to speed with it, you know, it was second nature and, you know, they felt they'd gone up several levels. But this is not, I suppose, not in a situation where you can really, where you have time. And time for Lincoln away, et cetera.

44:22Mark Carey: Yeah, exactly. Well, Sunderland away the fixture this weekend. Ken Sunderland, who won their last game in the Premier League, the time-weird derby, but have actually lost their last three at the Stadium of Light. In terms of recent form, though, Spurs not looking the best. They are winless in their last 13 games in the league. They in Sheffield Wednesday, the only teams anywhere in English League football yet to get a win since the turn of the year. Lovely stat as well that 20 % of their points this season came in the first two games of the campaign. It's just tragic, isn't it? yeah I mean Spurs are on an historically bad run of form and yes they've got a new manager in and I think the mood has changed and lifted but if you actually look at the teams around them Forest, West Ham, Leeds I mean West Ham for example I know they lost last time out in the league but I think since they beat Spurs they're probably averaging one one and a half points a game something like that they've been pretty competitive Forest have just beaten Spurs 3-0 in the league lead to grinding out results.

45:22So of those teams, Spurs are by far the likeliest to go down if you actually look at form and momentum and direction of travel. They've got this new manager, they've got a boost. But at halftime at the Stadium of Light, if they're 10 or down, that mood uplift is going to quickly go out the window.

45:41Mark Carey: West Ham taking on Wolves Friday evening there. Wolves unbeaten in three matches now in the Premier League. Forrest, as you mentioned, are Premier League relegation race adjacent at the moment. They're three points above West Ham as they prepare to take on Villa and lead to a four points clear, have that game away at Old Trafford. What about Forrest-Villa then? They're both in quarterfinal first leg action tonight, as we record, in the Europa League. Chris Wood, though, back in the squad. That's exciting news. yeah I think Forrest have got a bit more of an attacking threat in in recent weeks actually I think they've been at times they were quite toothless throughout this season they were sort of calling for Chris Wood or wanting Chris Wood to come back sooner but I mean including that 3-0 victory over Spurs Morgan Gibbs-White has been the the creative catalyst for Forrest for quite some time he's actually been chipping in with some goals and then throw in the fact that you then can get hopefully Chris Wood on the pitch to convert some of the more the chances that they're creating um they can only be a good thing they're not in but to your point before them they're actually in a lot of the teams actually are in okay form right in the bottom sort of five or six um i was actually at the reverse fixture of this um aston villa against forest and if it goes anything like that game um forest kind of just sitting in and a bit like we're saying with liverpool psg kind of knowing that they aren't quite as good to to offer a threat in attack and just making sure that they stay in a low block they were sort of inviting villa to just break They were sort of crazily defensive that game, weren't they?

47:16Like it was extreme, even by kind of Dice away standards. Yeah, I think it was set records for Forrest since they'd returned to the Premier League or something like that of just how little they had the ball in the attacking third. And typically it's been a theme of this season that when teams come up against a low block, sometimes they can struggle. But Villa were just very patient with it, kept knocking it around, kept sustaining attacks and just broke Forrest down quite straightforwardly. So if it was anything like that, then it would be a comfortable victory for Villa. but we're at a completely different point of the season.

47:44Forrest will go for it, surely. I mean, they have this weird record as well where they've missed so many chances in their home games. I mean, the Wolves won that they drew 0-0. Again, I think broke records for amount of shots without scoring, that kind of thing. So maybe some of those will start going in. Damn, won at the City Grand since mid-December, Charlie. They beat Spurs, I think.

48:04The blows just keep on coming. Yeah, which is surprising because they are a team we tend to think of as having a very strong home record and the City Ground being a tough place to go. Yeah.

48:13Mark Carey: To your point about wastefulness in front of goal at home, producer Charlie offers that they have had 228 shots at the City Ground this season. How many goals have they scored from 228 shots? 13, something like that. 13. Wow. Very good. And not from Forrest's point of view, obviously. All right. Well, there you go. That's the situation down the bottom. Leeds at Man United on Monday night. Another team, Man United, who are in terrific form and they're very much part of the top five race, sitting third. We'll come on to the events awaiting at the other end of the table next. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

48:57Mark Carey: Seven games to go. Premier League title race currently sees Arsenal nine points ahead of Man City, but still feeling a bit nervous because City do have a game in hand and a meet at the Etihad. this weekend as well Arsenal facing trickier position in the shape of Bournemouth who are on an 11 game unbeaten run while Man City will be at Stamford Bridge taking on Chelsea which ordinarily you'd look at that Arsenal against Bournemouth, Chelsea, Man City and say that Arsenal had the easier fixture but I'm not so sure. Yeah, I think you can make a case for either of those. I mean the fact that City are going to Chelsea you'd think that does make it difficult but they have a good record good recent record at Stamford Bridge and Bournemouth yeah have been incredibly competitive they haven't lost in the Premier League since Arsenal beat them in January but a lot of draws right in that time the last five last five yeah and I feel with what's at stake and the way Arsenal have been grinding out wins they could almost be playing anyone in the Premier League at home this weekend and your expectations would be the same which is that it's going to be a really tight sort of nervy gritty affair right um how impressed were you with their one-nil win away to sporting who had that incredible winning run at home yeah unbeaten runner i thought that was a really good result and sort of an ideal european performance i guess the context you know it coming after two defeats means maybe there was more of a demand that they should be playing better football but i also think that context was important because they just needed to stabilize um and you know be hard to break down again that's bit that's been their identity this season that's why they're top of the league because their floor is a lot higher than City's City may have a higher ceiling um and I think they did that um I think they did that very well against sporting they were solid didn't give much away and then took their chance um I guess the fear is that they need to play slightly differently against Bournemouth because that was also that sporting game nil nil would have been fine as a result obviously if it's nil nil against Bournemouth on Saturday that's gonna prompt you know a lot of gnashing of teeth so they do need to play in a different way and whether they have that other gear to do that that is the question because they haven't really shown that in quite some time okay you know they've been good at grinding out results very good at grinding out results I'd say like now Amarim's gone Bournemouth feel like the team in the Premier League most capable of producing chaos as well which Arsenal won't like well you know it's the only team to beat them at the Emirates although that wasn't under Amerim but yes they don't like that sort of uh yeah chaosy opponent I think I'm amazed that Bournemouth have this unbeaten run because it's completely passing by it must have been quite boring but I still associate them with this kind of ability to to bring chaos they did a double over Arsenal last season.

51:57Fingers crossed. They're the only team to do that. I think it will be difficult. I mean, a lot comes down to as well whether Saka and Timber, who Arteta said might be in contention for this game, can come back. And that would make quite a big difference. But it's a really big game. I mean, like a lot of Arsenal games this season felt like if they win, they'll win the league. And if they don't, then kind of all hell's going to break loose. Like it's felt that binary for some time. And this is another game I'd put in that category because it's a weird lead they have. Because like you say, James, City have the game in hand.

52:30They also have this game at the Etihad coming up, which I think everyone kind of assumes City will win after the Carabao Cup final, even though they haven't actually beaten Arsenal in three years before that. And so there's every, you know, that doesn't, it's not like that's a guaranteed three points for City, but it kind of in people's calculations feels that way. Unless I think Arsenal have a big enough lead, let's say if they were to win and City were to drop points, Would they be freed up enough to go and really take it to City and almost win the league there and then? But those things won't necessarily play out, but I think that's kind of the assumption.

53:03Mark Carey: Chelsea's chances of taking points off Man City. Enzo Fernandes is not available for this game. He's still suspended by the club for his comments in a recent interview where he suggested that Spain was a nice place and Madrid reminded him of Buenos Aires, which doesn't seem that controversial and assertion. You know you did, wasn't it? If it feels like a bit of a... I mean, I think fair play to Rosinia for making this step. Or whoever made that decision. Yeah. And not just doing it for the Port Vale game. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think we all recognise as token. Yeah. But it kind of feels like if Rosinia has the respect of the dressing room and the kind of clout of a top manager, then fine.

53:49You have the authority to make that step. If he doesn't, then it's quite a big risk sidelining arguably your best player for such a big game.

53:58Mark Carey: Well, the player who scored the equaliser when the two teams drew last time out. Yeah, it's a really big call. And if that backfires, that maybe doesn't look great for him. I mean, the only time they haven't lost, what is it, the last four or five of this fixture at Sanford Bridge was that four-all, that kind of madcap four-all under Pochettino. Yeah, City have won four of their last five visits. That was the exception. Resinia's side equally have won just one of their last six league matches against any opposition. They've been 3-0 by Everton last time out, which seems like ages ago, but was a really bad result.

54:38Mark Carey: They've lost their last two without scoring as well. I mean, the numbers are not good. They're not, and they are a very emotional team, for better or worse, Chelsea. like they can you know I think their path to victory here is they stay on the right side of the line they're aggressive they really sort of get at City don't give them time on the ball to just dominate them and kind of choke the game a bit like they did in the Carabao Cup final but there is a risk as we've seen in other games this season that they go for it too much and if they lose a man that's it then you know I can't see them getting a result so I think but they can you know and Stamford Bridge can be quite a an intimidating place if they if the crowd are really into it they need this result though in that top five push they really do it's knowing their roles as well they really like to go man for man and it was the newcastle game recently wasn't it where they went man for man against newcastle and got pulled apart so obviously and livermento dropped in and then there was just a massive gap between the two centre-backs that it was reese james who was the one who was closest to um was gordon who scored the eventual goal but um if because the way the city are with their rotations I mean the game against Liverpool recently and Liverpool weren't very good but their rotations and the way they just pop up in different places Shirky can be with a drop of a shoulder can just unlock something and Nico O 'Reilly's been excellent with some of his off ball running Chelsea would really need to just track all of that kind of chaos a bit like we spoke about PSG at the same time for the whole game and if they don't do that because of the way they do like to go man for man for a lot of their sort of time out of possession if they don't do that then you can easily get unlocked by Man City.

56:12Mark Carey: Do you think Pep could be having a lot of fun this weekend with Rossegna? Potentially I think this is the thing when you play against teams or Pep Guardiola rather plays against teams who go toe-to-toe with them a little bit more and think we could actually have a go here and maybe try and lock them down man for man etc as I say then you can really start to pull them apart and that kind of is what happened with the Liverpool game in the FA Cup whereas I think some teams can find it quite frustrating when they sit in at times and think about the Manchester City game against West Ham. It was their only shot on target but they ended up drawing against them.

56:45Nottingham Forest recently, they were 2-0 up and Forest... Sondham away. Sondham away, yeah. They get a bit more frustrated when the teams sit in but if Chelsea at home think, okay, let's go blow for blow, toe for toe, whatever you want to say it, then I was trying to think of another rhyme there but then they might come unstuck. Head to head?

57:04Mark Carey: No. Well, it doesn't rhyme but it's still the valid point, yeah. Okay. A rare midweek off for City as well. So plenty of time for Pep to come up with some diabolical scheme. You mentioned that Rhys James as well. I mean, I think Rossini was saying last weekend that, I mean, he didn't want to say, but maybe he could be in contention. Maybe Chalibur could be in contention. I think that would make a huge difference as well for them. Chelsea Man City will be 4.30 on Sunday. The other top five contenders this weekend, well, Man United are in third place right now. They host Leeds. Villa are a point behind them at Forest and Liverpool.

57:38Mark Carey: Fulham. anything you want to say about this game the reverse fixture do you remember the extraordinary goal which saw Fulham equalise in this game 2-2 I think it finished Harrison Reid Harrison Reid that is sensational from Harrison Reid he doesn't know where he's going on his celebration he's racing all round the cottage that is unbelievable he's picked out the top corner he'll never score a bigger goal I don't think that is absolutely incredible unbelievable amazing Fulham have equalised in the 97th minute unbelievable Fulham 2 Liverpool 2 one of the goals of the season and over a longer period absolute perfection Liverpool have had a habit this season as well of conceding goals from players who's scored their first goal of the season essentially I think Harrison Reid was asked after the game like have you ever scored a goal like that even in training he's like no right so i think that i don't know maybe it's just an unfortunate pattern um but yeah they've been on the wrong side of it quite a few times liverpool i mean harry wilson's obviously the the main talking point from a full perspective obviously he's got a history with liverpool as well and because he's out of contract in the summer i don't know where he's going to go i've got no information on it but the way that football or the premier league is going more specifically i think liverpool could could see whether they want Harry Wilson to come back to Liverpool because you think of his set piece delivery which Liverpool have been lacking quite a lot this season even though Dominic Saberslade is a good striker of the ball you watch their set pieces and they're being really quite poor in their delivery as much as anything he's got a very good delivery on him from set pieces and can score from long range Liverpool's issue has been coming up against low blocks and trying to unlock it if you can't try and break them down then you might need a shot from from distance at times and Harry Wilson's got that as well so I don't know whether it's worth saying do you want Do you want to come back home, Harry?

59:34Nice. I mean, Slots hasn't beaten Fulham, has it? I think the three previous games against them, which is maybe just a quirk, but maybe Marco Silva as well knows how to play this team.

59:47Mark Carey: Perhaps so. What time is that game? Saturday tea time. If you want to watch Liverpool-Fulham. The other three matches this weekend, to be watched in double speed or not, Burnley-Brighton, Seagulls. this may surprise you as well, Dan. They've won four of their last five. That's cryptopping you, hasn't it? Yeah, I was slightly more aware of their decline than the Bournemouths. I know what you mean about Bournemouth. I think I struggle to name a single one of those 11 unbeaten Bournemouth games. I mean, fair play to them. They beat Liverpool in that run at Bournemouth? I'm trying to think how far back it went.

1:00:19They did beat Liverpool. That must be since then. It must have started early. Oh, they beat, sorry, that Semenyo one would have been in that round. I do remember that. Sorry. You can't pay attention to all 20 teams. There's always a couple that slip under the radar. And it actually was Brighton before they went on this. There you go. And I would say they were a bit of a nothing team for a while. But now I'm afraid Bournemouth are occupying that position in my mind. Burnley.

1:00:44Mark Carey: That's Saturday, 3 o 'clock. Burnley-Brighton. Same time for Brentford-Everton, which is a duel for seventh spot at least, which is now certain to offer you European football next season. and Brentford are currently seventh. Everton are placed behind them. The Bees, a couple of months ago, were 4-2 winners away to Everton. So, yeah. Everton have got the derby with Liverpool next weekend too. I mean, games coming thick and vast at this time of the year. And two o 'clock on Sunday for Palace against Newcastle. Palace also involved in action this evening in the Conference League. They're away to Fiorentina.

1:01:21Mark Carey: Ooh, here's a stat just to finish off. if the season started at the turn of the year who would be top arsenal who'd be second united who would be third right i think i know this go on mark everton it is everton remarkable yeah remarkable i think this one's interesting as well because brentford against everton have you seen the recent news with matthew benham uh brentford owner uh waxing lyrical about beto a lot of criticism for beto in that he gets in good goal scoring positions he gets in behind he gets into one-on-one positions and people sort of criticizing him for the fact that he doesn't then convert those and i can read out the quote exactly as he said it but he was at a conference matthew benham and he said he said that when we played everton at our place last year better miss three one-on-ones and again a lot of people would criticize that but from a data perspective yeah well he didn't say that but with his data hat on obviously he's got a data background so i respect a lot of what he says any decent data model worth its salt would give better an upgrade based on that performance of getting to one because he gets into those because it's it's the process not always the outcome he said typically for a one-on-one the odds are 50-50 that you'll score so you might say that he's less efficient but the fact that he's getting into those positions for the shot is more important Beto's last game in the Premier League scored twice against Chelsea I can't remember whether they actually were in one-on-ones I'm not having it but it's it's about the process not always the outcome and he is always getting into to lucrative areas um he's just not always converting them so if he scores against Brentford maybe maybe he'll look up into the stands and do that sort of point to the opposition's owner I I don't know.

1:02:53Mark Carey: He's counting his fingers or something. Magnificent. Very good. That's all happening this weekend around about 7, 7.15, 7.30 there or thereabouts. We will start recording our weekend roundup on the Totally Football Show and you're very welcome to join us live on YouTube. Always appreciate your comments there as well. That'll be available as a podcast on Monday morning. For now, many, many thanks to Mark, to Dan, to Charlie, to Jake and producer Charlie in the booth and to you, listener, have yourself a great weekend. Hopefully see you on Sunday evening. And for now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:03:33You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

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