Liverpool strike late again against Atletico - next up the Merseyside Derby

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1:03The Athletic FC.

1:13Totally Football Show today. Champions League returns. We take stock on the Sharks as the big sides get out the blocks. Simeone's Anfield Payne, Bayern with Harry Kane, Lloyd Kelly for the old lady again and a historic Carabag Cup performance that may bring Mourinhovation at Benfica. Plus, what Angers Forrest did next, what Amarim's cooking up for this weekend, a song for Maduecki and more in this Totally Football Show.

1:47Thursday the 18th of September. Listen, thank you so much for joining us. Here in the studio we've got Colin Miller. Hey, Colin. Hey, James. Lovely to see you. Duncan Alexander's in. Hello. And back from the tennis circuit, Charlie Eccleshire. Hello. All right, Charlie. How was New York? New York was great. Yeah, good few weeks. Nice. Lots going on. Good. Always great to be in New York. That's lovely. I'm just cutting you short because we're on a time limit today because downstairs there's some kind of musical happening in about an hour and 15 minutes. And listen, I know this is a shock, but it actually takes us that long to record.

2:24I thought it was particularly after a midweek as busy as this. Shocks, surprises, underdog victories. I mean, that was mostly actually in the Carabao Cup, but also in the Champions League, there were some amazing, amazing games and amazing halves of games as well. What was your favourite bit? And still 33 % to go. So true. In fact, because of that, because of the opening week's Thursday night gala, we're going to move our Saturday show to Friday. So tomorrow morning, Friday, we'll record our reaction to the Thursday night games because there's a couple of absolute belters in there. What have you enjoyed most so far, Colin?

3:03So it's been a week of compacts, hasn't it? I mean, from Carabao to Benfica, they were 2-0 down after 15 minutes. They went 3-2. that crazy Juventus-Berrissia Dortmund game two goals in the last minute after being 4-2 down and Bodo Glimt came from 2-0 down against Slavia Prague to draw and then obviously the Carabao Cup as well getting in the action with Nottingham Forest blowing their two goal lead at Swansea two last minute goals who's their manager? Ange is back but yeah I mean I think this week as well in the Champions League those matches were really throughout the tournament have been really well matched I think a lot of those teams are in similar sort of seedings and similar levels.

3:44And I think that's made it a lot more entertaining as well. Do you think it was seeded, the draw? I think the way you have to do this, and this is actually quite curious, isn't it? It seems to be that the stronger the team, the more difficult their run of matches seems to be. I don't know how their seeding system works for how those games are drawn out. But I remember last year... For the opening game you're talking about. No, but for the entire draw. so Chelsea world champions have got by popular consent the toughest draw of all yeah and I don't know if they've done this for this season but for last season it was Celtic who were in the lowest seeded pot had the statistically the easiest PSG had the hardest PSG had the hardest and obviously they went on to win the tournament but they had finished sort of mid-table and they had the two they just got in I mean we simply don't know because now the draw process is Kaka or someone will press a button and the pick fixtures emerge.

4:38The sadness is that we had Pedro Pinto with his own the other day. If anyone could have told us, it would be... He was mashing a button in the background, but I didn't know what it was doing. We'll never know. Charlie, what have you enjoyed so far? Well, I made the decision to stick with Liverpool-Atletico last night. Yeah, despite saying to Charlie when he asked me what game I'd be watching, I said, well, I'm going to start with Liverpool, but if it's uncompetitive quite quickly, I might switch over. and I was this close to change. If they got a third, I was out of there. I was done, but I stuck with it and I'm glad I did because it was very entertaining.

5:11Very entertaining. It kind of snuck up on us that. I stayed watching Bayern Chelsea and so I was aware of but not caught up in events at Anfield. Yeah, I was similar to Charlie. I was flummoxed. I was like, Liverpool 2-0 up. This isn't their DNA. How are they going to score a last-minute winner in this game? But fortunately, they did. Let's quickly check on some of the headlines from what's been a busy few days. Bayern beat Chelsea 3-1. Bayern have now won their opening Champions League match for the last 22 years. Incredible statistic. They're in a good moment in the 21st century. Other English sides fare better.

5:52Spurs were 1-0 winners against Villarreal. Thanks for a crazy own goal from the yellow submarine's keeper, Luis Junior, after four minutes. Arsenal had a comfortable 2-0 win away to Athletic, while Liverpool beat Atletico, witnessed by Charlie, although it took yet another late winner to do it. This one, courtesy of Virgil van Dijk, in the 92nd minute after Atleti had come back from 2-0 down. So far then, it's Premier League 3, Liga 0 this week, but we do have Newcastle Barcelona still to come. Elsewhere, Paris Saint-Germain thumped Atalanta 4-0. Real Madrid beat Marseille 2-1 but lost Trent to a hamstring injury and Dani Carvajal to a red card for headbutting.

6:36And Inter were 2-0 winners at Ajax. Game of the round so far, or certainly second half of the round, was Tuesday's clash between Juventus and Borussia Dortmund. The first half was goalless. The second was the joint highest scoring in the history of the competition. Juve, who were trailing 4-2 in the 94th minute, somehow then scoring twice to snatch a point. And while all that was going on, also on Tuesday was Benfica Karabag, in which Benfica went 2-0 up, then forgot how to play football, ended up losing 3-2. And that is why Benfica are now looking for a new manager, and it may be you-know-who.

7:12Finally, shout-out to the Champions League debutants, Paphos of Cyprus and Waterpark fame, who drew 0-0 at Olympiacos. Bodo Stroke Glimt of the Arctic Circle, who came from 2-0 down to draw 2-2 at Slavia Prague. And the Belgians, Union Saint-Gilois, who went 1-3-1 at PSV. Ooh. In a spicy low countries derby. Benilux mania, yeah. Well, some exotic treats there, but of course we're going to start with events at Anfield. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. It's a good header. It's a catch-in's goal for Virgil van Dijk. in the Champions League.

7:57And it's happy birthday to Arna Slaught as the captain delivers when Liverpool really need it. The records say Liverpool's three, Atletico Madrid two and Wednesday night's clash at Anfield. Charlie-Ukashir, is it me or are these late winners getting to be a habit? Yes. Yeah, I mean, the obvious question is whether, you know, this is going to be, well, if they're winning games and they're not playing amazingly, then how good are they going to be when they click and they're going to win by five every week? or is it, well, they've got to get found out eventually? But it's a good habit to have, isn't it?

8:28It's definitely a good habit to have. It's not a good habit to need, but it's a good ability to have. Well, that's it. I think how we look back at it will depend on what happens next because if they do suddenly get some bad results, we'll say, well, yeah, I did always think that you can't. It's unsustainable. And if they don't, we'll say, yep, they were just waiting for their new players to click and now they have and look how amazing they are. They were winning in second gear. Yeah, exactly. So Sunday, Salah's penalty against Burnley meant that they became the first team in Premier League history to score winning goals in the final 10 minutes of four consecutive matches.

8:58And after having a quite bizarre 2-0 lead very early on against Atletico Madrid, they needed a similar get-out-of-jail card, courtesy of Virgil van Dijk in the 92nd minute. I would just say, though, I do think this was slightly different from some of their games, like Bournemouth, for instance, where they kind of looked crazily exposed and thought Bournemouth were very good value for those two goals. and Bournemouth are really good this game I kind of think 3-2 flattered Atletico a bit on another night Liverpool might have just won this like 4-1 or something and we'd be having a different conversation like they weren't despite conceding two goals I didn't think they were quite as vulnerable defensively so it wasn't a brave comeback from Atletico I mean it was in that they stayed in the game dangerous lead and all that yeah but they didn't do loads more than stay in the game and then pinch a couple of sort of half chances they themselves could have had a late equaliser.

9:53Yes, that was probably a better chance, certainly, than the equaliser. It was 7-1 on opt to define big chances, which is how you should view all games for me. Yeah, that kind of passes the eye test. But I think there's a lot of misconceptions about Atletico Madrid outside of Spain in that they are now much more defensively vulnerable, I think, and you could see that in this game. They still have that competitive edge to them and they love these occasions. but my issue with this Atletico Madrid team is partly beyond their control in that within domestic football they are so far behind the pull of Barcelona and Real Madrid relatively speaking yet they're so far ahead financially of all other 17 teams in that league that they almost have this perpetual season the finishing third of getting to the round of 16 in the Champions League or maybe the quarterfinals and then dropping out and it just seems to be like they're stuck in this identity crisis whereby they don't really know should we evolve, can we evolve they're trying to spend a lot of money to do so but for me they're standing still so it's games like this which are really interesting and maybe that's why we saw at the end of the match Diego Simeone becoming so emotional with the fans we don't actually really see that a lot, we see him emotional with the players and what's happening on the pitch but for him they have been clearly so distracted by what was going on behind him was quite striking I thought and maybe he spoke to just how how much this game meant, even maybe not in the grand scheme of how they're seasonal pan out, but in terms of what they are and what they're trying to be.

11:26Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, clearly something did really wind him up that was said from behind him. An early bath for you, Mr Simeone. I've read a lot in the last few hours about Marcus Lorenz's dog, Anfield, on the back of his continuing his excellent form. That's four goals in... Is it a good name for a dog? Well, I think the only problem would be as a dog owner you sometimes say your dog's name out loud and then something for it to look at so you might say you know dog's name squirrel if you said Anfield and then cat then people might think you're referring to the early Twitter Anfield cat phenomenon so yeah that is a danger but I think it's a good name okay and it was another good performance from him although Charlie as you say perhaps the scoreline flattered them a little bit the game also featured the first start for the most expensive player in the history of British football aka Alexander Ezek how did he look kind of as you'd expect I mean a bit rusty there were some good touches there was a lovely link up with Witts which again like that's the sort of thing if those two can develop an understanding and click then yeah that's going to be pretty lethal you would have thought yeah he lasted what about an hour which I kind of felt this game was almost an investment to get him ready for the Merseyside Derby on Saturday Merseyside Derby on Saturday and Wurtz Florian Wurtz yeah again I mean like some really nice touches floating around the pitch really hard to dispossess and yeah you do feel I mean he very nearly scored as well I think it was his best game so yeah create five five goal scoring chances and just he looked more connected with Salah as well for the first time so I think it was Salah's best game as well of the season so far yeah I mean Salah missed a sitter as well yeah hit the post which would have made it 3-1 and sort of killed it what was looking particularly good the Atletico Madrid kit Colin where's that out of they look like a handball team or something yeah yeah and it's in these games you sort of see these kits coming up maybe you don't see quite as much in domestic I liked it did you like it yeah I quite like it I think I like unusual away kits they'd stand I mean if Atletico had won that much that kit would instantly become iconic for a lot of their fans I think don't like a central badge with a with a brown logo still to the side it's basically 2005 Nike era but I don't know I don't mind it too much as I said earlier I think one of the interesting things for these games in general is obviously Liverpool got that last minute winner in the four year round how much does that mean for Liverpool because they're as with all these Premier League teams I think they're going to at least get into the playoff phase of this league phase and there's eight games in which to do that so how much do these individual results matter in terms of performance not so much in terms of performance and obviously you can carry that momentum into the Premier League but in terms of the final outcome in the league for years I think Liverpool will finish top of the year I think Atletico will probably be in the playoffs anyway and like a tournament say like a World Cup where if you lose your first game you're in real trouble you've got essentially you need five wins I think that's the general estimate five wins and then maybe a draw so you've got eight chances to do it anyway I mean the sad reality is that for a club like Liverpool the main advantage what you want to do is what they did last season get your top eight players secured early and then you can rest players for the final two in January when all the players are knackered like that's kind of what those adding those extra games is sort of that's one of the things it's created and we shouldn't forget that yeah everyone points out that PSG came 15th in the league last year and won the trophy but then Barcelona, Arsenal and Inter the other semi-finalists came second, third and fourth so you know I think the league table was a pretty good indicator of strength last season we should see what impact Wednesday's exertions have on Liverpool this weekend when they take on Everton.

15:16A fixer we'll touch on more a little bit later on. Meanwhile, of the Premier League sides, Chelsea had maybe the toughest assignment. The world champions were away at FC Bayern where they got beat 3-1. Two of the Bayern goals coming from Harry Kane, who had a bit of a, I guess they call it a meister classer. playing so deep now and he's so good at it that bit towards the end where he turns I think it was Chalabra maybe and then just runs like half the pitch not especially quickly but he's so strong as a runner that he just covers the ground he eventually ended up fouling Enzo Fernandes but yeah just incredible obviously on top of the amazing finishing ability that he has lovely assist as well for his third goal from oh hang on Chelsea's Malogusto Chelsea didn't help themselves and what was a difficult fixture?

16:10Yeah, but I think those are linked, right, in the sense that Kane was dropping so deep and Chelsea's build-up play was getting disrupted so much because I don't think they really knew where the Bayern players were. Obviously, there was a high press as well. I think it is worth sort of talking a little bit more about Harry Kane because Jamal Musiala is sort of long-term injured. He's kind of filled in into that creative void as well. Seb, Sebastian Stafford-Blur wrote a really good piece on this in the Athletic about how Kane's role has evolved at Bayern and how he's really fitting into this Vincent company system.

16:43And I think Bayern are one of those teams, especially under company, you're not really quite sure what to make of them because nobody really seems to have them down as a tournament favourite, even though you've got Kane, you've got obviously players like Moussie Allo, who's out, but Michael Alisa, you see, is fantastic. I kind of think when you're comparing Bayern... Richard Diaz as well is looking great for him. Yeah, and when you compare those two starting 11s, I think Bayern's is clearly above Chelsea. I think a level above Chelsea's. Yet I think a lot of the sort of tone around the coverage of this match was like, well, you know, Chelsea are going to be disappointed to have lost this game.

17:17And, you know, maybe it shows they're a little bit naive in this stage. But I just think Bayern have better players. I think that's the reality of this. Certainly savvier players as well, you know, for the Champions League. There's something about you, like Bayern at home especially. You do, I don't know, they have this way of sort of making your life quite difficult. I know Chelsea actually did create a decent number of chances, but Bayern just looked that bit more experienced and streetwise. October 1st. Exactly. Everyone's merry. It's their time of the year. That's why they keep winning their opening game.

17:48It's sort of out of respect for cultural norms. They are the most September team of all time. Cole Palmer, once again, with Chelsea's goal after his strike on the weekend. What a goal it was too. lovely and he had another one disallowed he's so good at that scanning if you watch when he runs forward with the ball his scanning as they call it is just the way he turns his head it's almost like an owl a skilful owl but yeah it was a lovely finish what do you think when he scored what was a consolation goal at that point he still did the kind of trademark celebration it was brief but it was almost like he remembered should I do this for a consolation goal I don't think it was a consolation goal it was it would have made it 3-2 the one that was disallowed The one that was disallowed.

18:34Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, the one towards the end. And yeah, it was almost like he got embarrassed. Commitment to the brand, I think. I guess it is. But then the karma of it then being disallowed. It was like for the bean counters. He could like, I definitely did it. Yeah, yeah. But for the fans, yeah, I wasn't doing it much. Chelsea have another big away game coming up on Saturday when they visit Old Trafford. Bless. They call Man United. Yeah. Again, we'll touch on that when we do Premier League things. later on Colin you were about to yeah no I just think with Chelsea obviously talk about Colt Palmer and star player and how much of an impact he makes and you saw that last night I think Liam the lapse injury has really changed the way they play because they don't because Joao Pedro who Maresca said prefers playing deeper in a number 10 role he's now their number 9 so essentially what they have is he's dropping deep so they've nobody to stretch an opposition defence and create then that space behind them I think you could sort of see that a little bit last night that they've so many attacking players who have a similar mould but they don't have a Delap replacement and obviously the guy who could have been that competitor was Nicholas Jackson Nicholas Jackson came on, so what's the problem?

19:42Oh yeah, he was playing for Bayern The other Premier League side, just quickly to touch on what they did Spurs 1-0 winners against Villarreal Lucas Bergwahl after his stellar performance of the weekend, again with a big impact here but not quite as big an impact as the Villarreal goalkeeper it really was oh my goodness extraordinary might be the worst thing I've ever seen I think in that level of football describe it for anyone who didn't see this Duncan so Bergvall crosses the ball on the ground and the keeper dives out sort of facing the ball and then sort of I don't know scoops it into his own net basically it's the sort of thing you might do when you're playing football with a kid and they sort of have a you know a really tame shot or with a mascot or something and you kind of like gently throw it in and then everyone's like hey they've scored Yeah, exactly.

20:32It was really bizarre. Yeah. Not suggesting foul play on the goalkeeper's part. Got the lawyers in my ear. So after that, and I was watching the game in Chirin, but it didn't seem like a huge amount happened in that match. No, it didn't. I mean, having made a good decision on Wednesday, made a bad one on Tuesday. Oh, you watched this? Yeah. So Spurs, I think, just combined two shots on target in the match. but they did get a fourth clean sheet in five matches so yeah I mean it's been a real um shift obviously as we expected Thomas Frank coming in replacing Ange um yeah I mean again it's a bit like Liverpool that I think there are kind of some bubbling concerns that their attack hasn't really clicked so I guess it's kind of the opposite of Liverpool um but defensively they do look really secure and you know if the attack does click then we'll be talking about these great foundations that have been laid.

21:25I think my sense with Frank Spurs is that, you know, I think they will have home games where they struggle. We saw that against Bournemouth. I think they're going to be so much better, as we saw against City, against kind of stronger teams that attack them. So Brighton at the weekend could be a good one? Well, yeah. I mean, I guess it depends what sort of, how Brighton approached that game. But yes, I think Spurs, yeah, it's definitely hasn't quite clicked in an attacking sense. But it's the right way to do it, isn't it? Yeah, it is, yeah. Sort out the issues and then build the attacking patterns as you go on.

21:59I think that's, yeah. I like that. Excellent. Arsenal, also looking good. Two-nil winners away to Athletic Club de Bilbao. Squad depth. Squad depth. Strength off the bench. Colin? Yeah. Gabriel Martinelli and Leandro Trossard came on and made instant impacts in this game. I didn't think it was Arsenal's best performance. It was a very similar type of display as their league game at Anfield quite recently, in that they didn't really seem to have much to any attacking ambition whatsoever, but they just wanted to nullify the game, quiet in the crowd. And I actually thought Athletic Club played pretty well.

22:38Certainly for the first 20-30 minutes they were in the ascendancy, but this, kind of a little bit like the Spurs game, there weren't many clear-cut opportunities in this. But yeah, the subs make a difference, and you could see that with Arsenal's massive investment this summer. they haven't really lost any players that would have sort of been involved in that starting XI so they have a lot of different options now and I think that again this is a game last season they probably wouldn't have been able to do that right they wouldn't have had those bring on Raheem Sterling or Kieran Tierney or something so yeah it's that's exactly it was exactly for this sort of situation that they made all those signings so they had actually viable options to bring off the bench.

23:16Martin Elia a player who not a new arrival and one indeed whose star is a little bit faded of late. So this is a big goal for him. Yeah, it is. But I mean, he's one of those players who's... I've always felt this, you know, Martinelli's the kind of player who, you know, back in the Arsenal had Sylvain Wiltord, who was a kind of great 12th man. You wouldn't have necessarily wanted him starting. And I think Martinelli could have a... I think he'll become a lot more popular almost the less he plays, you know, when you're coming on. And I felt the same with someone like Giroud, who kind of... His crime was that he was playing every week, which he shouldn't have been.

23:46He should have been this, like, amazing impact guy. more popular the less he plays but do you know what I mean he's a cameo merchant yeah and Martinelli as well he has in the Champions League he scored a few of these types of goals which you never really see him scoring in the Premier League because teams don't play that kind of high line against Arsenal in the Premier League but he scored one at the Bernabeu and Sevilla away and then this was a great finish he had to score that goal or a great goal because Maduweke was right there yeah he was you could see Maduweke seeing him shooting thinking this better going oh it has fair enough and yeah i say a great finish it was actually one of those where it's it does enough but he kind of flummoxes the keeper because it's almost straight at him it's so close to him and he kind of dives over it but speaking of maduiki by the way we were asking on sunday what song arsenal fans could sing for their new right wing star then you start on the right flank listener ollie holmes gets in touch to say the noni maduiki chant surely has to be to the tune of Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal.

24:48Annie, are you okay? Noni Madueke. Madueke. Madueke. There was. I can't remember the tune, but there was a new Madueke chant last night. What? And it wasn't that. It wasn't as good as that. No, probably not. Well done, Lissa Olly Holmes. I'm excited by that. Perhaps we'll hear that at Old Trafford at... No, where are they at the weekend? At home. Oh, they're Man City. They play Man City. Why aren't we discussing that tomorrow? We are going to discuss it tomorrow. Yeah. All right. What we're going to discuss next on this show is some of the other things that happened this midweek, some of which, to be frank, were even more interesting than those.

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27:36by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Tuesday, a couple of fascinating matches in the Champions League league phase. We'll talk about Juve Dortmund very shortly, but Benfica's 3-2 defeat at home to Carabag was the first ever victory by an Azerbaijani club in the Champions League. How about that? Carabag, the champions of Azerbaijan, coming from 2-0 down to win this. It was also the last game in charge of Benfica for Bruno Large. He was sacked pretty much on the spot. And word then circulated that Jose Mourinho could be set for a sensational return to the Stade de Luz, 25 years after his brief spell in charge of that club at the very beginning of his managerial career.

28:24Now, back then, we talked about this a little bit in a totally extra about Mourinho's Porto, which, topically enough, we did the other day. Back then, he only lasted nine games due to a change of president. There were elections. The guy who came in had already promised the role to somebody else, and Mourinho wasn't a name at the time. So he went kind of a, I wouldn't say, there's a similar vibe to what's going on now because they've got an election coming up next month. Rui Costa, who's currently the president, is pushing for Mourinho. But a gentleman named Jean Noronha-Lopez, or probably Jean-Rogne Nobles who is also up for the presidency wants to bring rumoured Amarim in from Manchester United and why wouldn't you?

29:16And why wouldn't you? So where are we at? I think everybody wants to see Jose back because they've got Chelsea next month. Yeah, I think the expectation is that it will be Mourinho. Obviously he had a fairly abrupt exit from Fenerbahce and he's available and I think that would be a good fit to go back to Benfica all these years later. Obviously he went on to have his legacy with Porto initially which is what most people kind of initially associated him with but I think it would be great for football to have Mourinho present at some level I think it's good for the narrative it's good for the news industry as well but also one of the things I would want to say about this game is that Benfica sacking Bruno Lager after this Karabag's manager is Gorban Gorbanov who's been in charge for 17 years and he has a track record of developing not developing these players but bringing in guys from really humble backgrounds lower divisions in other countries sort of developing them into a team they sell them on for big fees and then they almost universally flop at other clubs even for this game two of the goal scorers Camilo Duran and Leandro Andrade were signed from Portugal's second division so these were guys who picked pretty much from nowhere and they've made an impact.

30:31And they were the entertainers in the qualification phase. They scored 15 goals in six games. Obviously scored three goals at Benfica, which is no mean feat. So it's a really interesting club, Karabag, and not just for what they're doing on the field, but for what's going on off it as well. So for those who don't know, Karabag currently playing Baku, which is the Azerbaijan capital, but they're not from there. They're essentially a refugee club who, in 1993, with the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia over the disputed territory. They are from Agdam, which was in that territory. And because of the fighting, they essentially had to flee that town.

31:06It became a ghost town. And they've played in Baku since. And then they're funded and they became the dominant club in the country. But there's no plans after the recent phase of hostilities in that area that Azerbaijan are now looking to move that club back in to Agdam, into the original stadium, which is politically obviously quite contentious and what's going on. But Karabag, to be on the stage they are in a sporting sense, for Azerbaijan, I think as a country, that club is incredibly important for what they project because it's not just that they're the best team and they're from Azerbaijan, but they're from that area.

31:45And there seem to be a very, very well-run club who have been certainly at a kind of league phase of Europa League usually, but it's sort of sporadically in this competition now. I went to, I covered a game, a home game of Karabag in Baku many years ago and it was actually when they were playing, it was for a previous employer, they were playing Arsenal and it was the time, you remember that was the season where the final was in Baku as well but they played Karabag in the group stages and Mkhitaryan couldn't play as an Armenian. They couldn't guarantee a safety. I mean, it was kind of extraordinary situation, the fact that a final was in a place where a player who could potentially get there and did get there.

32:23But I do remember speaking to people and, you know, saying, is that right? You know, that feels good because it's hard to imagine that level of security concern. Everyone was like, yeah, there is absolutely no way that he can play this game. But it was an amazing stadium and an amazing atmosphere. But they ended up losing that game, Carabao. But also even just for a kind of club, I mean, we say Eastern Europe, but maybe even further away, but for Eastern European clubs to be succeeding in this stage is an increasingly rare thing and it probably is a good thing for football as an industry to have clubs from that part of the continent who are actually able to compete at this stage and are just sort of there and losing every game.

33:00Good thing for travel as an industry as well. It just struck me that it was Benfica who caused Jose Mourinho's untimely exit as Fenerbahce's boss because they beat the Turkish side in the playoff and Mourinho was dispatched straight afterwards and now could take over the club which had knocked him out, which will please James Horncastle, who in the big Champions League preview on The Athletic was lamenting Fernabash's exit and Benfica going through, saying they've denied us eight Jose Mourinho pre-game press conferences, eight Jose Mourinho post-game press conferences, and all the narrative and content that could have been there.

33:39Do we definitely still want all that? I mean, we haven't reached a saturation point with him. Watch his Benfica play, not so much. but you want all the stuff around it still. Yeah, I mean, do you not? I don't know. It just feels like one of those things where if enough people say, oh, but you can't deny he's still box office, that you kind of have to believe that. And it's like, is he still? I don't know. I just don't know how much there is to learn about, you know, like I love Mourinho. I covered him when he was Spurs manager. Because obviously covering Spurs when he was there, yeah, and like it was pretty bleak at points, wasn't it?

34:12Yeah, and I mean, like he was great to cover. Like it was entertaining, but that was still like, we're talking five years ago. I guess now, you know, from the distance we're at, you get kind of bite-sized chunks and maybe that is still good. I don't know. It just feels like one of those things we kind of are told and have to accept. And I'm just not sure the reality is maybe that entertaining anymore. I hear you. I had a different perspective when he was Roma boss. But when I read about him potentially being moving back to taking over at Benfica, my heart leapt a little. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see what happens.

34:46Maybe we'll have news on that tomorrow, aka Friday, when we do our special Totally Extra. Meanwhile, Tuesday, as I mentioned, game of the round or second half of the round, Juve 4, Dortmund 4. So Juve had had a 4-3 with Inter at the weekend. And then they have this game here, which is only the second game in Champions League history to produce eight second half goals. I don't think any of you saw the first half, Nothing would suggest that you'd made a bad call on that. But the second half began in a really blistering fashion. Dortmund, under Niko Kovac, are, to be fair, a much better coach side, a much better organised side than Juve are right now.

35:28And they really started to look, to kind of turn the screw on the old lady. They took the lead. Juve managed to equalise very rapidly. Dortmund then retook the lead even more rapidly, and you kind of had this back and forth. However, about 75 minutes in, Lloyd Kelly was, I think, a bit harshly a judge to have handled. And a penalty was given and Dortmund were now 4-2 up. And it really looked like that was that. Bit of a sting for the old lady in her return to the competition. But a couple of players who'd come on, Jean-Marie on the right flank and, above all, Dusan Vlajevic. Duzan Blavich's relationship with Juventus has been kind of hot and mostly cold for I think three seasons now but what he did in this match was extraordinary he's always on the point of leaving the club always trying to look looking to move him move him on and I guess that'll be the end of this season that'll happen or maybe at Christmas because this is the last year of his contract but he it's rare you see a player drag his team across the line quite as much as Blavich did here he scored two goals set up another but was just so angry so full of passion and so clinical in his finishing that we ended up with this amazing situation Juve 4-2 down in the 94th minute and then drawing 4-4 a couple of minutes later final goal coming from Lloyd Kelly who'd started the scoring in the 4-3 against Inter at the weekend madness, madness

37:07we should also shout out for Kenan Yildiz who scored a brilliant goal at the weekend and had another one here but a lot of spectacular goals a lot of spectacular goals Dortmund absolutely gussed I mean a point away to Juve is not a bad result but they look destroyed they was as well because when they were up 4-2 and just from the highlights it looked reasonably comfortable and their defender, I'm not sure who it was, gives the ball away. Kind of playing out a bit unnecessarily. You know, again, a sign it looked like if they felt very comfortable, almost felt the game was done. They got punished in the most kind of brutal way and then a couple of minutes later as well.

37:41But it was 4-2 in I think the fourth minute of Stolzmann at the end of that game. It does feel like this happens to Dortmund a lot. You know, they're on the brink of these great results in Europe and somehow contrived to throw it all away. I think that must play in your mind a little bit as a player. But yeah, maybe less characteristic is Juventus. He just seemed to be incredibly entertaining. Like a lot of flair and a lot of attack-minded players on the pitch. Which is strange because they've had attack-minded players. Yielders was there last season, but incredibly entertaining was the last thing you just said about them.

38:15And to be fair, Igor Tudor coming in didn't really make me think they were going to move the needle much on that. but can't argue with the kind of scorelines they're having. That was, by the way, if you're curious, the latest that a team has ever come back from two goals down in a Champions League match. Yeah, and also I'm fascinated with Lloyd Kelly's career and he only scored three goals in 141 games for Bournemouth. Obviously then went to Newcastle briefly before Juve, but that's two and two. And that was the latest goal Juve have ever scored in regulation time in the Champions League, which for a club with their history.

38:48he's yeah he's interesting I guess though that's slightly misleading in some ways because there have probably been teams who've trailed by two goals on aggregate and managed to turn those around like I'm sure Real must have done that even if on the night they weren't do you know what I mean I do know what you mean but I'm not sure if it would have been that late though to score goals in the 94th and 96th minute yeah maybe kind of unusual Inter by the way who were on the wrong end of that 4-3 last Saturday in Serie A they kind of got their season a little bit back on track they'd had two consecutive defeats they went to Amsterdam to play Ajax and won 2-0 with two identical so identical were the goals I was busy watching the Bayern Chelsea game and I was convinced I was watching a replay because they were both out swinging corners from Hakan Cholonoglu who was also in brilliant form last Saturday and two headers from Marcus Turam so that's a nice start for the Nehru Zuri I think we might be in a golden season for headed goals.

39:49There's been a lot so far, including these two. So I think, yeah. It does feel like in general, defenders aren't as well coached at heading the ball out because of the other sort of focus and playing out with your feet, obviously. But it does feel like that is an area that teams are maybe exploiting a little bit more. Long balls and headers is the future. Weren't we always told as well that with VAR and things that you can't get away with so much pushing because you're being scrutinised? so maybe there's an element of that too perhaps so perhaps so anyway so the other near Azuri from City Hour are Atalanta who went to the European champions Paris Saint-Germain and didn't last very long what three minutes in PSG yeah Marquinhos turned up in open play inside the box with a poacher's finish and throughout I mean PSG could have won this game 7 or 8 nil they really really could have the chances they were creating and missing were extraordinary but it does speak to the freedom that they have in that team that Marquinhos was there.

40:48Obviously, Mendes with a goal inside the box and Kakimi missed one or two really good chances with his runs inside the box. So essentially, you've just got all these positional switches and incredible fluidity. You don't want to say a team are favourites for the tournament because it's a competition. It's a knockout. A lot of things can happen. But the way in which they play, without Dembele, without Douai for this game too, that just doesn't really seem to impact them at all at the moment. And the goal from Kavala Schellier? oh yeah that was that was just describe it Colin you don't even really need to describe the goal to know what it's like with him because he's a player he'll pick up the ball he'll drive inside he'll take on defenders he'll have that sort of physicality to ride the challenge and then to unleash a shot from outside the box that is virtually unsavable because it's hit with so much power and so little back lift he's just I think that is the sort of player that any club would want in their team a winger who's obviously got all the talent all the creativity but has that sort of that other side to his game too that competitiveness obviously he had the impact with Napoli but now they have it with PSG and what they did last season I just love him as a player I mean just to Colin's point about they could have won it 10-0 they had 10 big chances I'm into that metric today which is more than 4 teams did in the entire league stage last season and only 5 fewer than Milan managed in 8 games makes you think doesn't it while you're pondering on that consider too the fact that Union Saint-Gilles was, who were the kind of Cinderella team of last season in the Belgian Dupilla Pro League, is it?

42:18Dupilla Pro League, Colin, yeah? Yeah, it is, yeah. They won the title for the first time in their 90-year history, is that right, last season? Or the first time in 90-something years in a long time, listener. Let's call it that. Then qualified for the Champions League and went to PSV Eindhoven and beat them 3-1. Canadian striker Promise David scoring their first ever Champions League goal he's not related to Jonathan David also of Canada but people who are related include two other scorers Kevin McAllister Alexis' brother and Ruben Van Bommel who's son of Mark for PSV Ruben Van Bommel by the way he's the maternal grandson of Bert Van Marwick the guy who he coached him in the World Cup final I've sort of had this game on in the background for him to be on the losing team he was so clearly the man of the match he was absolutely brilliant and I hadn't really been aware of him before he'd been at AZ Alkmaar but his goals and assists backed this up and all the sort of data behind it suggested this guy is actually a really really talented player but in this match he was absolutely fantastic let down quite a lot by terrible finishing and Unión were clinical and again because they're the sister club of Brighton this isn't overly surprising that they've got really smart recruitment and they tend to pick these players out of kind of obscure leagues and end up doing really well.

43:41I obviously promised David, who was signed from Estonian football last summer and he was aged 23. So he wasn't like a 17-year-old. And he scored 27 goals last year. Obviously now a full Canada international. So yeah, I mean, they're a really interesting club. And yeah, it's good to see them having again this platform because had this league phase not been expanded, we maybe wouldn't have seen their games as much. and yeah I just I think it's a really interesting game and a lot of a lot of good players and for anyone wondering whether Kevin McAllister is named after Kevin McAllister he is he is so what's Ruben Van Bommel's game then he's less sort of because his dad obviously was this like terrifying enforcer but that's less his vibe yeah so he's he's like this this winger but from what from the I haven't seen too much of the air division but he is a really direct he takes players on he's got really accurate cross and he's a really powerful shot to him as well but he's just again we were speaking about Carver Skelly earlier it kind of reminds me of him and his gameplay and couldn't really contrast more with his dad who as you said was his he didn't get sent off in the Euro at under 21 Euros this summer he did so you know the DNA is in there nice we shouldn't conclude our Champions League chat without mentioning Real Madrid Colin 60 seconds on what they did against Marseille yeah went 1-0 down the Tim if you were shot for Marseille Tommy Fibuera by the way three years earlier George where his dad of course scored for PSG in the cup winners cup with Real Madrid but yeah Real Madrid came back in the end Kylian Mbappe scored twice so he's got 50 goals for the club in just over a year which is pretty remarkable considering I think both penalties the second of which was incredibly contentious to the point I mean it was a handball decision the initial shot by Vinicius was blocked by the defender and then the ball sort of landed in the ACF area and ricocheted off the arm of the defender whose arm was breaking his fall So again, I just don't really understand how that could be given.

45:34But yeah, this match had 41 shots across the entire game, which is very much a Roberto de Zerbe type match. And we saw quite a lot of Brighton where he would have taken his teams away to Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea played really open, really expansively, taking the game to them. That's exactly what happened here. But yeah, probably a little bit more finding out about Madrid under Xabi Alonso. Vinicius didn't start this game. Mbappe did. And I think a lot of the talk knowledge is how Mbappe has sort of made that position his own. He's now the central striker. He's the main guy at Madrid. And, yeah, I mean, obviously they've had a strong start to the season and they've won all their games domestically too.

46:13And Trent Hamstring went. Trent Hamstring. They also got a red card. Did you mention that red card? I didn't know. So Danny Carverhal had a slight, I wouldn't really say uncharacteristic moment of madness in leaning his head slightly aggressively into the goalkeeper. And yeah, it was deservedly showing a straight red. And yeah, Trent could miss the return to Anfield at the, I think that's the end of October, start of November. But it's estimated he could be 68 weeks out. So it could be touch and go. But that's obviously a blow from Madrid going forward. Absolutely. So Bruce Springsteen song, 41 shots.

46:51Is it Bruce Springsteen? American skin brackets, 41 shots. about someone who was shot by police 41 times. Makes you think. Thursday, six more games on the way, including Newcastle, Barcelona and Manchester City, Napoli. And we'll be having a look at what happens in those in that Totally Extra show out with you, probably Friday lunchtime. Next up today, League Cup and Premier League.

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48:27you're listening to the totally football show with james richardson now with you four times a week keep up to date with us on insta and enjoy us in glorious technicolor on youtube at the totally show leak up wednesday the third round got underway actually tuesday sorry tuesday the third round got underway and there were some remarkable results here too and posticle glues nottingham Forrest went to Championship side, Swansea City. They went 2-0 up. They were still leading 2-1 after 93 minutes. But they ended up losing 3-2. 3-2. Yikes. Headed away by Cali Mwendo. But still a chance to shoot from there.

49:04And they won it. And Burgess. It's incredible from Swansea City. I've been to give an answer at the weekend said, you'll see my team properly on Wednesday that's unfortunate it is well Forrest will go again this weekend when they face Burnley at Turf Mall elsewhere last round Giant Killers Grimsby you recall the League 2 side who defeated Manchester United well they won again now beating championship outfit Sheffield Wednesday 1-0 Yazid Kabia with the only goal that's the sixth of the season The Mariners of League Two, as I mentioned, through to the last 16. Well done to them. The All-Premier League affair between Brentford and Aston Villa saw the villains score their first goal of the season, finally, because of Harvey Elliott.

50:00However, Aaron Hickey's delicious volley saw Brentford pull level, after which Villa lost 4-2 on penalties. Their difficult start to the season continues. Palace also needed penalties meanwhile to see off Millwall in a rematch of that very nasty FA Cup clash back in March. You'll recall saw Jean-Philippe Mateta off and off his ear off as well. Anyway, yeah, penalties. It went to after the 1-1 draw and Palace won 4-2 on the spot kicks. The remaining 12 third round ties will be taking place next week. With that in mind, let's move on to what awaits this weekend in the Premier League. It's round five already.

50:45It's bookended by two huge matches. Saturday lunchtime, things get going with Liverpool against Everton. And then Sunday, 4.30, Arsenal Man City brings the curtain down on the round. In between, Burnley hosting Nottingham Forest, Brighton facing Spurs. There's another derby for West Ham because the last two have gone so well. This time it's against Crystal Palace. We're still unbeaten. Wolves are taking on Leeds, a six-pointer. Then there's Man United, Chelsea at 5.30 on Saturday, which is the most drawn fixture in Premier League history. And at 8 o 'clock on Saturday, another of those late ones, Fulham-Brentford.

51:28Yeah. Sunday, two games at 2 o 'clock, Sunderland against Villa and Bournemouth-Newcastle. And then that Arsenal-Man City game. What about the derby then? At Anfield Saturday lunchtime, Everton haven't won at Anfield with fans in attendance since 1999. David Moyes has never won at Anfield. He's had 20 attempts there as a Premier League manager. What are his chances this time? Well, to Charlie's point earlier, I think this is the moment we see whether Liverpool's start of the season is second gear cruising or there are issues. Everton have been really good. Jack Grealish has been transformative.

52:07They've actually, as per the Athletics' alternative Premier League table, out every Thursday, Everton have led for longer this season than Liverpool in games. Oh, this week's alternative table is which team has led for longest. Yeah, led longest this season and a bit of last season as well, if you want to look at that. But yeah, Bournemouth lead the Premier League. But yeah, Everton, I think, are fifth and Liverpool are seventh. So, I mean, as you'd expect, the team that scores a lot of late winners. But maybe people haven't really, I don't think Everton have been on TV much yet, so probably haven't watched.

52:35But they're attacking players. I mean, it's classic Moyes. They're tight at the back, but then he's now got players up front who can keep the ball and make stuff happen. So, yeah, looking forward to this. I mean, I guess one, you know, Colin was talking about earlier how consequential Liverpool winning or drawing that game is. I wonder if one consequence of the fact that what looked like it could have been a sort of 3-0 after half an hour, Cruz can rest everyone and sort of start thinking about Everton, the fact that they did actually have to keep going until the 95th minute whenever they scored their winner, whether that has an effect given it is quite a tight turnaround from Wednesday night to the early Saturday game I mean that's what Everton will be hoping for obviously The slot pun intended that Jürgen Klopp used to have a lot of problems Used to despise yeah So true So true yeah that psychological almost draining Yeah exactly it wasn't And it's the fifth game in a row that they've had that Well maybe you have the boost of morale of being able to Of knowing Overcome the odds is it Yeah I mean we can obviously argue both sides to the fact after the match.

53:38But yeah, I do think that Everton will have had a week to prepare this game. And you know David Moyes, he'll have a plan for this. And we know how this game is going to go. I think when you looked at Liverpool's game against Burnley last week, it was quite intuitive in that a team who didn't really have much interest in attacking them, but had a really low, deep block. And how much Liverpool struggled with that, really. And that could be, I don't think Everton will go to that extent, but they'll have better options in the final third, as Duncan said. so it'll be interesting to see how this game balances out you'll imagine it will be quite low scoring and it will be quite nip and tuck but Everton will probably enjoy that and relish it and they'll be looking at if the game does go into the final 15 or 20 minutes and still on the balance they might have a little bit more energy to maybe get a result Crikey Arsenal-Man City is the 4.30 Sunday game but we'll talk about that in Friday's show after Man City play Napoli Man United, meanwhile, are up against Chelsea, who similarly haven't won at Old Trafford since May 2013, which Alex Ferguson was still United manager.

54:42And the Chelsea boss was? Rafa Benitez. Rafa Benitez. Again, well, Chelsea... People at Anfield on Wednesday night. Oh, yes. Saying stuff to slot at full time. Nice. Why are these games so entertaining? This is on a stick, darling. Yeah. Chelsea will Chelsea fancy their chances of a rare win at Old Trafford this weekend they've got to be one of the only teams that hasn't won at Old Trafford in the post-Ferguson era that is extraordinary I mean they're on this run of four straight away games this is their third or fourth in a row but I found yesterday even though from what I saw it looked like they created chances and things like that but I do just find them they often just do look quite unconvincing a way that they I don't know they have their moments but they can't really string it together.

55:31So, I mean, yeah, you'd think this is an opportunity. United, how much they'll benefit from having a week off? I don't know. The same applies with the Liverpool game. Obviously, it's slightly later on the Saturday, but Chelsea had their game in Germany, had to travel back. And again, are maybe not demoralised after the result, but they're not exactly going into this on a high note. And I think Charlie's right. I've seen quite a bit of Chelsea this season. And there's just something missing, isn't there? in the sense that they're clearly a good team they've clearly got good players but they just don't strike me as a team who are going to challenge for either the Premier League or the Champions League this year and then you kind of think so what will constitute a successful season because there does need to be an improvement done last year and I look at some of the players that they've signed It's pretty difficult given that they became world champions Galactic champions Yeah maybe There's a lot of narrative around this game but I do think that Manchester United Obviously, they need a result, right?

56:29Ruvanarum needs a result. What's he been cooking up on the training pitch this week? That's what we want to know. What formation? Who can say? It could be anything. Does he even need a result? Can he not just lose this and stare in despair at the floor and still retain his position? I think from a United point of view, this is genuinely quite a difficult opening run of fixtures, okay? So I think there is that sort of leeway. They're not going to rush to get rid of him because they don't have a replacement lined up for a start. And I don't think there's any real desire within the club. I think the fan base is a bit different.

57:04But if they were to win this game, I'm not sure they will, but if they were to win this game, it could provide somewhat of a spark with the fact that they don't have the midweek games anymore. They could go on a little bit of run of form, but because they don't have the cup matches, it makes all the league games that much more important because they won't have that disruption momentum. Not even having the Carabao Cup is kind of crazy. I mean, they're playing so few games. Right. But I mean, yeah, whether that's a benefit, I mean, you'd assume it would be overall. But yeah, like Colin says, that does create a slightly different dynamic and a challenge.

57:38Man United, Chelsea, Saturday, tea time. What else catches your eye from the round? For example, could Villa's miserable start get worse Sunday lunchtime when they travel to Sunderland, who've won both their home games so far? What about West Ham and Graham Potter? Will West Ham's home game with Crystal Palace, again, as one WAG observed this week, see West Ham fans staying to the end to avoid the rush? We shall see. And what about Burnley-Nottingham Forest after that Swansea City collapse? What next for Ange Postacogli? You've also got Brighton-Spurs, Fulham-Brentford and Wolves-Leeds. Leeds manager Daniel Farker has had seven Premier League matches against teams whose names start with W.

58:21you he's lost all of them crikey it's the worst 100 losing record by a manager against teams beginning with the same letter in the competition ever i mean i think that came from my former colleagues at option i'd like to distance myself from that in the business that's known as we need 10 facts for this game we've got nine i can't find the tent all right but that will be the most quoted tweet your uh stat you'll see from that lots of people will be yeah yeah i mean i i think there's a whole other conversation but i think there's a lack of discernment when it comes to stats and data a lot of the time that you kind of hear something and then repeat it because it sounds like a big number or something and then you're like does that mean anything like it like what are we learning from that thing you've told me or is that just a coincidental thing that's happened data and done well brilliant but i just think a bit more critical thing what we'll see hey, if they lose this one, then maybe you'll reconsider your position, Charlie.

59:22But okay. On the games though, Brighton Spurs, that fixture was 3-2 last season, 4-2 the season before. So last season Spurs were 2-0 up at half time. And the other season, But this is a different Spurs. It is a different Spurs, yeah. But that's been a good one. They've been to Man City without conceding. They've been to West Ham without conceding. Can they do that at the Amex? Question mark, question mark. You're right as well. You said before this, in theory anyway, should be a game they are a bit better set up for. So yeah, I guess it is an interesting test for them. And also the coping with the Champions League, Premier League dynamic, which is very different to the Europa League because yes, it's Thursday, Sunday, but with that, certainly in the groups, you can rotate quite a lot in a way that you tend to do less in the Champions League.

1:00:07All right. What do you expect from that meeting of managerial minds of Burnley, Noddingham Forest, the park of Iposta Koglu? Yes, two contrasting styles. it's fair to say and I mean both going into this not with pressure but with results behind them that maybe aren't overly beneficial I do think that you know for Nottingham Forest I know it was away to Arsenal last week and that's obviously a very difficult game in itself but I think there's a lot of underlying signs even at this stage in the season that it could be problematic going forward not just because they've got a lot of football to contend with and obviously with the Inuri record that we know had been associated with Vange Postacogli at Tottenham and the training demands that he has.

1:00:50But what players are suited to the system he wants to play? And we've gone through that. But it just feels to me that they could have a very difficult season and games like this could actually be quite important at the long term just to make sure that they're not going to be dragged into part of the table that they don't want to be and won't have that distraction from their European games, which is what a lot of the fans will be looking forward to. So this game could be quite instructive. just to see how can they approach a match against a team who probably will sit off a little bit and will be difficult for them to contract.

1:01:22A Burnley side who diffused Liverpool so very effectively for almost all of last weekend's class. They were unlucky to lose to Manchester United the game before. I think Burnley will stay up fairly comfortably. Really? Yeah, I think so. So I could actually see them winning this and more crisis rolling into the Trent. It would be a fourth straight defeat. third straight in the Premier League. 2-3-0 defeats, their recent losses in the Premier League and of course the 3-2 that we mentioned away at Swansea City. Villa miserable start for them in the league yet score a goal. They did get one midweek in the Carabao Cup but Sunderland away.

1:02:02Oh, just to mention the Athletics Will Jean's pointing out that Chris Wilder has been sacked by Sheffield United and reappointed by Sheffield United in the time since Villa last scored a goal. Crikey. In the Premier League. Yeah, they scored in midweek. They've got that. That's on the board. Yeah, tough. I mean, Sunderland have been good so far, particularly at home. Roof's in goal. He's got a very high ceiling. And you could see him keeping them out for another game. Curiously, shots on target are only as good as what you do with them, I guess. Villa have had 10 of them across their four games this season in the Premier League and have scored none.

1:02:44Sunderland have only had nine but have scored five. Wow. Football, eh? West Ham Palace, I think is about to get even worse for Graham Potter, do you think? Well, I think if he loses this one, then it is, yeah, crisis stations, to butcher a phrase. Crisis stations. I'm inventing it. I'm going with it. Right. I mean, to lose at home to Chelsea is bad. Panic talks down at West Ham. To lose at home to Spurs is badder. Maybe seen as misfortune. Yeah, but to lose... I mean, Palace do have a pretty good record there. They've won four of their last six meetings against the Hamways. So it's concerning.

1:03:26I think with West Ham, it's not so much that they're a chronically bad team. Because in games, they tend to start okay. And you see, oh, there's little patterns here and things. But as soon as they concede a goal, they tend to just fall apart. They capitulate. Like they concede in batches of three or four within like a 20, 25 minute period. And this predates Graham Potter slightly, but it hasn't improved at all under him. And I think it's the mood around the club, isn't it? And obviously we talk about Graham Potter quite a bit, but in terms of the West Ham fans, it's the ownership of the club who are really taking the eye for everything that's going on.

1:04:01I mean, there's a lot of protests in the background and there's just a lot of discontent. But this has been going on really for years and not, we've said before, not really having an identity of what they are or what they want to be. Whereas Crystal Palace do have all that. I'm not sure there's a lot of quality difference between the two teams, but in terms of the defined style, there definitely is. Yeah, and Oliver Glastner was the poster boy for managers who come in and have an impact, which when you're growing potter, still struggling to scratch the surface of the West Ham malaise. is not the ideal person to have on the opposite dugout.

1:04:38All right. Well, that's much of what awaits on Match Day 5 of the Premier League. The other games we'll touch on in our special Friday show. So look out for that one. Listen, we'll try to have it ready for you sort of Friday lunchtime UK time. Very good. That, I think, wraps it up for us today, though. So, Charlie, lovely to see you. Great to see you. Duncan thank you so much for being with us also Mr Colin Miller Jake and producer Charlie in the booth and you listener hope you've enjoyed the show loads more Totley's on the way for now from all of us here it's goodbye you've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network for more great podcasts just like this one including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

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