Man City stunned by Al-Hilal, plus more Euros glory for England?

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1:59The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

2:27on the pizza. We catch up on all the news as the tournament heads to the quarterfinals. Also today, we get the latest transfer news, answer your cues and look ahead to another major tournament starting this Wednesday, the Women's Euros. It's the Totally Football Show.

2:44It's Tuesday the 1st of July. Listener, welcome to a brand new month of Totally and to a brand new hour or so in the company of Daniel Story, Seb Stafford-Bloor and Adrian Clarke. Hello. hello hello hello james there you go there's daniel you're on a we're thinking three or four second delay daniel i might as well be in miami james indeed indeed although where you are is probably hotter am i right yeah we're dealing with level five bt internet issues 33 degrees and closed windows because of sound quality. So it's a good morning, all in. July 1st in Remsston. Excellent. Well, you know what, Daniel?

3:28Even if you're three or four seconds behind, you're still way ahead of the rest of us based on last week's performance, where, if you recall, you made a couple of throwaway comments that turned out to be eerily prescient. First of all, you said that Nick Voldemort had Harry Kane's replacement at Bayern written all over him. Only three hours after we published, news broke that Bayern had agreed a deal with a Stuttgart striker. Incredible. The other thing you said was responding to Liam De Laap supposedly sorting out the striker issue for Chelsea. You said, yeah, now Chelsea will spunk 60 large ones.

4:01I might be paraphrasing a little bit on another striker. A notice that Victor Akadra swiftly got online to call you names. But within 48 hours, who has proved right? Eh, Daniel? Yeah, I mean, if I can be honest for a moment, You are my new service because I had no idea about the Voldemort thing until you just said it. So that's nice. The Giao Pedro thing was, yeah, I mean, the Giao Pedro thing was a little bit more predictable. I think we'd heard rumours that Chelsea really wanted him as well as Newcastle and that he quite wanted to stay in the south of England. So that made sense. I mean, yeah, it's I wonder what you think of your Liam De Lappe having kind of left the under-21s, which the 21s then win, to go to the Club World Cup and play for your new club, which is great.

4:48He seems to be having a great time. And then suddenly a£60 million striker comes in three days later. Probably want that competition, don't you? Fight for your place. Yes. Daniel, I'm not sure if you predicted what happened in the Club World Cup on Monday, but most of us were very surprised with the matches involving Inter and Man City. Man City happening early as of Tuesday morning, UK time. A lot of people thought we were going to be seeing these two teams go through in the quarterfinals of the Club World Cup on Friday. But instead, it's going to be Al-Hilal, who knocked out Man City in the game of the knockout stages.

5:23What a stormer. Taking on Fluminense of Rio de Janeiro, who beat a pretty abject Inter. We'll be discussing those games very shortly. Elsewhere, Chelsea had an epic night on Saturday with Benfica. They were 1-0 up against the Portuguese, with just four minutes to go. But then a weather alert forced a two-and-a-half-hour delay. When they came back, Benfica got their first shot on target, a penalty, which forced extra time. And there, sometime the next morning, Chelsea ran out 4-1 winners. Four and a half hours after they'd initially kicked off, they will take on Palmeiras in the quarterfinals, who beat Botafogo in a bit of a stinker.

6:01Botafogo, by the way, promptly fired their manager. Sunday in the big Leo Messi reunion, Paris Saint-Germain absolutely Bayern Aucklanded into Miami for 45 minutes, It's going 4-0 up. Jean Neves getting the first brace of his career, but then, because there are old friends involved, they kind of declared, and that's the way it finished. And next up, Paris Saint-Germain will be facing Bayern, who had a real battle to get past Flamengo on Sunday night. Brace from Harry Kane in the 4-2 victory for the Bavarians. And that game, PSG-Bayern, of course, is a 2020 Champions League final rematch. Quarter-final line-up then for you.

6:35Fluminense against Al-Hilal is on Friday. Friday night, stroke, Saturday early morning in the UK, It's Palmeiras-Chelsea. Later on Saturday, Paris Saint-Germain against Bayern. And then it's the winners of the two remaining last 16 games facing off. That's Real Madrid against Juventus and Dortmund-Monterey. Both of which may well have concluded by the time you hear this listener. Let's start with Man City. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

7:14Man City 3, Al-Hilal 4, after extra time, game of the knockout rounds, I would venture. The Athletics report kind of pointing out that this game evoked in many ways those chaotic Champions League knockout rounds when Simone Inzaghi, Al-Hilal manager, was in charge of Inter, you remember, against Bayern and then Barcelona. It was similarly end-to-end and anything could have happened. Yeah, it was pretty wild, James, wasn't it? Some of the defending was pretty abject. They were caught on the counter, weren't they, by Malcolm for the second goal. I think it was really, really wide open on the counter.

7:51And that has been the Achilles heel for Manchester City for a long, long time, of course. So, yeah, it was kind of alarming the way that they gave up a lot of big chances. I think Ali Hilao created seven big chances in this game. City themselves had six and they had a lot of shots that were well saved by Bono, the goalkeeper. He's got a habit of turning up at these major tournaments and shining, hasn't he? So, yeah, defensively, pretty worrying, I'd say, for Pep Guardiola. Ake didn't cover himself in glory when he came off the bench. I think the changes as well that City made didn't work. and probably the most alarming tactical aspect of the game from my end was with the new left back, Ryan Etnori, who is a really good player.

8:41We know that. He's excellent going forward. Helped assist the first goal, albeit via an arm. But defensively, there's no doubt in my mind that Inzaghi targeted him and Doku. Because Doku, let's face it, doesn't like getting back. And I think that he was a little bit exposed down that side. And Al-Hilal peppered him. And it's a blueprint, isn't it, for other teams to follow in the months ahead. So that's something he needs to fix, I think, Pep Guardiola. Eight Norrie, pretty clear handball, I would have thought, on that opening goal for Man City. And about four or five minutes of Al-Hilal protests after that.

9:21Referee never went to the sideline monitor. It came off the shoulder of Bernardo Silva after it had touched Eight Norrie's hand. And my impression is that that's all that the AR looked at. Anyway, the goal stood. City took the lead. That's how it stayed until half-time. City with loads of chances, as you say. Lots of saves from Bono. It was brilliant in the game against Real Madrid as well. Start, the second half, was mad. You had Marcos Leonardo equalising. And then five minutes later, from, as you mentioned, a City corner, one ball upfield and Malcom's through and it's 2-1. Four minutes after that, though, it's level again because Haaland has leapt on a loose ball from a corner.

9:57And then one minute after that, Al-Hilal down the other end, think they have a penalty for a tackle by Neves on Malcolm. But that's offside. And so on and so forth. 83rd minute, City think that Haaland has given them potentially the winner. But then it turns out that's cleared off the line. And we go into extra time where Koulibaly scores. Classic Inzaghi stuff this year, centre-half scoring. And then Foden with a brilliant volley to make it 3-3. before, finally, Leonardo, Marcos Leonardo makes it 4-3. Crikey. Seb? Yeah, I mean, I've quite enjoyed watching Aljala throughout the tournament and in this game too because every time you see them and you see one of their players do something, it's kind of, oh, I haven't thought about that guy for two or three years.

10:40There's a kind of around Neves there, Sergei Malenkovic-Savic, who is kind of a fascinating shape for a midfielder. I always wondered what he might be in the Premier League. Never quite happened. Wasn't prominent in this game, But I was taken by the performances of Salam Aldaswari in this tournament, particularly against Real Madrid. I thought he played very, very well early in the tournament. Do you remember he scored against Argentina in the last World Cup in Saudi Arabia's game against them? No, winner against them. I also looked up. He is the leading point scorer in Saudi Pro League fantasy football by quite some distance.

11:11Not Mane, not Ronaldo, not Alexander Mitrovic, but him. And he, I spoke to a guy that... You're a keen player of that then, Sam. It's quite bleak. No, I looked it up because it was like... How do you know that? I am not a very cool person, Adrian. And also, you know, TikTok has eroded my attention span so I can no longer just watch football. I have to do something else while I'm watching it. And I spoke to someone who knows the league far better than I do and he said, yeah, he's one of the great players in Saudi Arabian history. And he reminds me of Vinicius. 33 years old now, so maybe not quite as dynamic as he was, but I thought he was very good.

11:46I thought Ruben Neves was very good too Renan Lodi there as well and Marcus Leonardo who I didn't really know very much about but unit, unit reminds me a little bit of a kind of Lukas Podolsky type player with that left foot but he played very, very well and I thought they deserved it I thought they deserved it and it was kind of interesting to see you mentioned this James but there were some real Inzaghi traits to this but he's only been there for what three and a half weeks as coach Yet to lose a game, despite playing Real Madrid and Man City in that time. Which is quite impressive, Ro, because if you've got a disparate group of players who you've just taken control over, you haven't had a big block of training time at a pre-season, he's presumably just got on the plane with them and travelled over to the US, and then to knock out Man City is quite a feat.

12:34Absolutely. Along with all those former glories and players that you haven't thought about for a while. Worth mentioning, as indeed you underline there with Al-Zahri, that there is this core of Saudi players. I think six or seven of the team from this morning's win was homegrown, including three players who featured in that victory at the last World Cup against Argentina. For City, they get a bit of extra rest. That's the plus. Pep was wondering about the impact of being away at this tournament for their next campaign. Perhaps another worrying aspect beyond the fact that their hind line was punished, the 8-0.

13:10worry left back situation does seem a bit of an opportunity for opposition is Rodri going off with a complication to his kind of injury comeback came on in the 53rd minute was off by the 100th yeah they need a they look like a team that needs a pre-season rather than a post-season tournament quite frankly very easy to say now and it's it's hindsight thinking but I think in a couple of months they'll probably be not too displeased that they left this tournament at this stage the money notwithstanding because the defence needs organising. It was really interesting to hear Bernardo Sildraff say, yeah, this is how teams beat us.

13:46This is how teams beat us last season. It's how teams are still beating us. That suggests there's quite a lot of work to do in terms of, you know, Adrian mentioned the organisation and it does need sorting. They've got an awful lot of defenders and they look like they don't really know who they're going to play next to for any game. They've got like almost too many options in terms of centre-backs and no real right-back yet. and so someone's going to fill in there. They need to get that sorted and pre-season is probably better than any other time to do that. There were some positives for City though and I've got to say that the two subs who come on, Cherky and Foden, did deliver.

14:25They delivered a truly brilliant goal, I've got to say. Yeah, it's brilliant. I mean, it was, you know, Cherky sort of is, I don't know, was he 30, 35 yards out from goal, tucked in off the right and he picks out the run of Foden. And Foden sees the space quite magnificently. There's a little overload. He can see that the centre-back is picking up, who would it have been at the time, maybe Marmouche at the time. And he sees the gap in behind off that player's shoulder. Makes a great run. The flight of the cross is perfect. And then on the volley, side-footed, Foden somehow tucks it into the corner.

15:02It was sublime, really. So I do think that those two players will go off on their little break now, feeling quite good about themselves. I think Cherki's made a good impression. Foden's certainly found a little bit of form. And that combination, if Pep is bold enough to play them together, there's a feeling I felt that it might be one or the other in games next season. If they can find a way to get them both in the team, that kind of combo could be something that is pretty productive. That's really interesting because last season, Manchester City were kind of emphatically a winger team. They had Savinho, they had Doku, they had Foden who would drift out wide, they had Bernardo who would drift out wide, De Bruyne would drift out wide.

15:48The answer in this might be to kind of go back to those intricate triangles that Guardiola used to love so much but tend now to happen out on a wing or playing back to a full-back and back into midfield. If you can get Cherky and Foden quite central and have Nori overlapping, have those defenders overlapping rather than using the wingers. I don't know what it means for Doca and Savinho, but fine. That can look really nice, I think, if they can go back to those kind of pretty pattern triangles rather than just drilling down one wing and then hooping, horseshoeing their way back to midfield. Well, City then with one or two things to sort out as they head home.

16:22Al-Halal into the quarterfinals against Fluminense. So we've got two sides from Brazil in the quarters, one from the Middle East and possibly one from Concagaff as well. in the shape of Mexican side Monterey, who go early hours of Wednesday morning. We'll get on to all the rest of the Club World Cup. Things you need to know next.

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20:39All right, well done Al-Hilal. Let's talk now about Fluminense, who knocked out. Saeedu were Champions League finalists only a month ago. We'll gloss over what happened to them there. But Inter Milan, 2-0 this victory. goes from Cano and the evocatively titled Hercules. The 2023 Libertadores winners, as of course you knew, listener Fluminense, and through they go to a clash with Al Hilal. Great scenes back in Brazil as celebrations. The club account tweeting, lots of ketchup on the pizza today. Not sure what that means. Hasn't Italian food suffered enough during this tournament? Yeah, I mean, we saw this at the Euros and it was cute there, food banter, but that seems harsh.

21:24That seems harsh. Inter, people question what kind of state of mind they're becoming into this tournament in, and I think Monday's performance maybe was the answer to that. They did hit the woodwork twice in this game, but overall their performance was such that their captain, Lortaro Martinez, issued a kind of stormy declaration post-game when he said, whoever doesn't want to be here should leave right away. I've seen a lot of things that as a captain I didn't like. Inter then not at their best. Turam coming back in and looking a shadow of himself, his first game back since his injury. But we shouldn't underestimate the job that Fluminense did on it, particularly defensively.

22:04I was super impressed because, I mean, you mentioned that the two chances that Inter put against the woodwork, Lataro late on, didn't really happen until Fluminense had dropped into a low block and we're kind of just settling for what at that point was a 1-0 victory. Before that, it probably could have been 2 or 3-0 because I think we fall into a little bit of a bad habit with some of these South American sides during the tournament, talking about kind of application and it means more and they run faster and harder and they've got points to prove. All that may be true, but tactically they were just superior.

22:36They're limited into this chance creation. Yeah, they weren't the team that finished the European season, but look at the players they were still facing. I think Borrello was a wonderful player to watch almost any time he comes across your screens. He's pretty limited in anything he did. La Torre wasn't really a factor until right at the end. You mentioned Turan, not quite fit. I thought they were terrific. Also, we picked out Salim for Al-Halal and his effect in the group stage but also I think Arias has been a brilliant player. I knew nothing about him before this tournament but I think he was fantastic.

23:09So three of the four games that he's played he's been superior player of the match. What is it he does? He just seems to do so much. He seems so prominent. I know that's a little bit of a cop-out answer, but he's doing everything. He's really effective down that right side. He's good without the ball. He seems to be a dependable part of the defensive structure when not in possession. But also, I think he was also the player that brought that brilliant save out of Jan Sommer in the second half. He just seems to be involved in so much of what they do. yeah I mean it makes it sort of it feels very um it's kind of a nostalgic thing right you know when you used to watch world cups and uh for six weeks you'd learn about a player that you'd never heard of and you might never hear of again before kind of the internet before football manager before you know YouTube changed all of that and he's just turned up and there is excellent excellent footballer so I thoroughly enjoyed it but I think also um again this is a kind of a micro point but we've talked a little bit about how Inter have sought their way through this tournament and Naltaro did a pretty decent job of describing his feelings about that but I think the difference here is you saw it in the one-on-one battles with the ball without the ball like who's contesting for it when and where and with what kind of intensity and there were very few of those that Inter won until right at the end until the final sort of 15 minutes when it all became quite desperate and they sort of they had a sense of looming embarrassment which I shouldn't feel because Fluminense are a really, really good side, seemingly.

24:35But I say that whilst acknowledging many of the things Laetitia has said as being very fair, I think. Because Jimbo, you watch more of Inter than I did. This idea that, yeah, we lost the Champions League final, therefore we can kind of mope our way through the tournament with a lot of self-pity. Does that? I'm not really sure I'd go with it. I understand the players would rather probably be on a beach somewhere. At the same time, you kind of had a baseline expectation of commitment and professionalism. You're there, right? Am I wrong? No, no, no, 100%. It's a major embarrassment. It might be followed by another one for Juventus if their performance against Man City was anything to go by.

25:16Not been a good summer for the Italians. Daniel? I was going to say, on Arias, you watch that and when you combine him as a right winger with Daniel Munoz, who we've seen at Crystal Palace, who's Colombia right back. Like it's a party right side of that field for Colombia. I know they're kind of slightly labouring their way through South American qualifying, although they almost certainly will get to the tournament. But they could be really good fun next year at the World Cup with those two in combination. One last thing, because I think Arias, of course, has got a lot of attention. I thought Thiago Silva was brilliant against Inter because especially when Fulminense decided to drop a little bit deeper.

25:56and it shows that quality of being able to, you know how he says there are some midfielders like Tony Cruz, Luka Modric, who could probably play until they were 50. He's probably in that category because the qualities that you bring, which is just organisation and stability when you buttress a defence, just doesn't seem to age, does it? Indeed not. All right, loads to talk about still. We've got England's victory in the under-21s still to come. We should talk about Chelsea and what happened to them against Benfica or what they did to Benfica eventually. Also, a preview of this PSG Bayern quarterfinal.

26:30Seb, I know you watched the Bayern 4-2 against Flamingo, which itself was an absolutely storming match. End-to-end stuff. Brilliant from Flamingo, but slightly more brilliant from Bayern. Harry Kane with the brace as well. Yeah, and I think that's the difference. I wouldn't say that Bayern were especially good. They were wholly decent, a very solid 7 out of 10. But the difference here was just Harry Kane's quality of finishing. one thing that I just did want to pick up on is Dite Ibn Kharnou's contribution to Harry Kane's goal his first goal because a couple of years ago this was the great flaw in Ibn Kharnou's game where he would jump out, defend instinctively, make a little bit of an error of judgement and allow a huge amount of space behind and the German media got into the habit of I wouldn't say bullying but they got on his case a lot and it became he became a little bit of a punchline this is the thing that's really improved under companies.

27:22When he makes that decision, typically it goes right. And in this instance, it goes right and it creates the counterpress which leads to Kane's goal. But yeah, this was Bayern as a moments team. This was taking opportunities that fall to them and every time there was a swell of momentum against them, there was Kane or Goretzka to kill it off. So it was exactly what it needed to be from Bayern. Will Bayern Munich moments be enough against Paris Saint-Germain? I don't think it'll be enough, no. I think that PSG are the standout rounded team of the tournament. They can outscore you with some quite swashbuckling attacking play, but they can also snuff you out fairly comfortably.

28:05I think they're the best team. I think what Seb was alluding to there was that Bayern have got great individual talent. They're fun. They score bags of goals. But are they brilliant organised? Are they tough to play against? Are they tough to create chances against? I don't think so. I mean, in this game, Flamengo had more efforts on goal. Dan Bayern scored a couple as well. So, yeah, I suspect this would be a cracking game. But the PSG should have more than enough to seed them off, I would have thought. I'd expect them to score at least twice, but possibly get three or four. That's coming up on Saturday.

28:46early that morning we'll see Chelsea in action as well when they take on Palmeiras who've been pragmatic shall we say in their approach to the tournament so far it's got them into that quarterfinal clash with Enzo Moresca's side the game against Benfica thoughts Daniel it's nice for everyone to get a little rest before the final I mean it was a four and a half hour football match there must have been you can just imagine tournament organizers when Benfica scored that equaliser. Just like, come on, guys. Come on. It was kind of farcical and it does throw forward to, you know, it has not just Enzo Mureska as kind of very, very vocal in his this-shouldn't-be-happening stuff, but it also asks questions about what the World Cup is going to look like next year.

29:32We've already heard reports of FIFA Pro asking for a 9am World Cup final and longer half-time breaks and double drinks breaks. And the reality is, if you're in a country where the weather is, A, climactically incredibly diverse, you know, storms come in very quickly and also is really, really hot without air-conditioned stadium for supporters and players in all of them. It is going to be an issue. And, yeah, it kind of distracted from a sort of mediocre Chelsea performance, but they have been able in this tournament to just do enough as they go. And now their potential route to the final does look like Palmeiras and obviously then one of Alilal or Fluminense.

30:11and they have a, up till now, they, more than any other club in this tournament, seem to have been treating this almost like a pre-season. You know, bringing the new signings in as they sign, giving them, rotating them in and out of the team, seeing what it looks like. They might actually be able to do that all the way to the final, which is a very nice problem to have. No Caicedo for the quarter, which is big. Yeah, so that will hurt them. I don't know. Like, on paper, you think, or they'll make the final. But I'm not so sure, you know. I'm not so sure. Jean-Pedro coming into the mix, Adrian, following his move in excess of£50 million, the fee that Chelsea have paid Brighton, for whom he has scored 30 goals in 70 matches.

30:56What does he bring in that they didn't already have? It's a good question. I like him. He's a sort of two-in-one striker. Nicholas Jackson is a striker that likes to run in behind and stretch teams with his pace. Liam DeLapp is a sort of powerhouse centre forward isn't he can travel with the ball he's strong I think Pedro's got a little bit more guile he can drop in as a 10 so he could what you could do here is move Palmer maybe into a sort of little pocket to the left or the right and have a DeLapp or Jackson with Pedro off him or if he played if he led the line to Al Pedro he at times might come short which would allow someone to go and run in beyond it probably just gives the team a bit more tactical options I really like him I think he's he scores different types of goals Cole Palmer better watch out because he's a brilliant penalty taker unreal if you get a chance I don't know if it exists on YouTube but you know a reel of all his penalties you will find very very few pens where the goalkeeper goes the right way.

32:03He's absolutely sensational at sending the keeper the wrong way. So, yeah, if anyone's got time on their hands, look at his pens. I remember writing a piece on it not that long ago. He did miss one last year, but he's a great penalty taker. So, yeah, look, really good signing. And, yeah, he probably does, I don't know, does he jump straight in as number one out of the three? I think maybe. be could you play could you play one of one of the others with him i can imagine joe pedro and lian de lapp playing together you could absolutely play either either of the other two with pedro i think pedro actually when i saw him in the championship quite a lot at watford he really was a number 10 so yeah you could you could totally do that but of course what do you do then with palmer you know is he is he is he coming in off the side so i mean in this tournament he's trialled him out on the left a little bit hasn't he we know he can do it on the right Cole Palmer so yeah I think he's he's a signing that unlocks a world of tactical options for Enzo Maresca which is a dream for any head coach isn't it I'm not saying they won't but because this is Chelsea and there's always another 50 million pound player along the way soon but if I am a Chelsea fan I'm just crying out for someone to buy some defensive experience to match with this talent I was looking for a piece the other day and I won't ask it as a quiz question but the oldest player that Chelsea used was Tosin as a centre-back and you think this is a team that basically won the Champions League because of the combination of Antonio Rudiger and Thiago Silva is this like gnarly defensive combination and I understand it's really nice to buy 22 23 year old players but in every position I look at Chelsea and think if you put all of them into one player you'd have a truly elite number nine or right winger or left winger or whatever it is.

33:53But at some point you need someone to grab a game and say, we need to stay in this or we need to get back in this. And generally that takes experience, I think. So I just hope for their sake that they aren't just kind of overloading on one particular kind of hedge fund asset manager plan of we'll buy all these young players. I think that's what they're doing, Daniel. Yeah, of course they are. And before you respond, keyboard warriors, just remember how often Daniel is borne out by subsequent events. Very good. Well, that's the Club World Cup as it stands, of course. Early next week, we'll be back to round out what's happened between Chelsea and Palmeiras and Fluminense, PSG and Bayern and whoever it is who makes it into the other quarterfinal.

34:33Next up, let's talk about that England.

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37:34This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Here's Norton Cuffey, in from Morton. Jonathan Rowe!

37:48What an entrance! Under 21 Euros, your Saturday night. England winning their second straight title at this tournament. And what a game this was. 3-2 it finished after extra time. Harvey Elliott got things underway. Player of the tournament with his fifth of the campaign. Omari Hutchinson doubling the lead. Then Germany, who of course had beaten England back in the group stage, came roaring back through the might-sparing seb of Nelson Viper and Paul Nable. Correct. California Canaries saying, I'm hoping by and by rapid German under-21 winning a Paul Nable to have a forward line of Kane and Nable.

38:29right for a bit of context like i because i i sort of watched this for work through german eyes and that is a very very good german side full of players with bundles league experience i think maybe at least five or six of them will play senior international football for germany um voltammadi probably i think voltammadi has been overdone a little bit um by the tournament i think kind of his physical advantages show up in a way that they don't always in the bundles league at the moment really really talented player but 100 million euro player at the moment no no not not quite yet hold hold those horses but Rocco Wright's brilliant brilliant midfielder in the making I think um could play 6-8 something like that maybe a 10 for Gladbach uh Nabil you've mentioned Viper Viper had a really bad injury a couple of years ago but might otherwise have grown into one of the sort of the up and coming forwards in European football so England I mean that's no there's no joke that result.

39:21Nable hitting the crossbar in the last minute of stoppage time. Potential German winner there, then Merlin Roll at the very end of extra time, which would have taken it to penalties. But instead, Jonathan Rowe's goal right at the start of extra time was enough to seal it. Remarkable, remarkable stuff. Daniel? Yeah, remarkable because they have defended their title, the first English team to do that since 1984. and even more remarkable when you consider the players who weren't there. You know, Taylor Harwood-Bellis wasn't there, Adam Wharton wasn't there, Liam DeLapp wasn't there. That is a spy, a first-choice spy of that team.

39:58And it's the first time I've seen an England team at pretty much any level get spooked by the situation a little bit in-game and then recover. So it was almost a supercharged version of the Euro 2020 final in that England started really quickly and scored in that game. They started really quickly and scored twice here. and then inevitably they tried to sit back. It was quite hot. They weren't able to do it. Germany's goals were absolutely superb, by the way. A brilliant, like a bullet, proper Dion Dublin bullet header and then a lovely kind of curled shot but with enough power to beat the glove of James Beadle.

40:31And at that point, they really did only look like one winner and England looked really surprised when they took the lead an extra time. It was as if they'd kind of almost submitted to their fate. But the one thing you worry about young players is that there might not be a maturity to deal with situations. But in players like Elliot Anderson and Jarrah Kwanza and Tina Liveramento, the maturity of those players is way, way beyond their years. Lee Carsley at the helm of this Victoria site, as he was a couple of years ago, in front of the watching Thomas Tuchel for the final. Be honest, seeing the group that he's put together and the spirit which seems to infuse this collection of players, who would you rather have in charge of the seniors right now?

41:13Adrian Do you know what I still think Thomas Tuchel Will get it right I do I just think he's a very He's a very good manager Sort of trying things out At the moment But You have to Admire What Carsley has done And he's a brave coach He's calm And you talked about The maturity there Of the individuals Well He's created the environment Where You know They have this self-assurance Where they You know They're not panicking So he deserves A lot of credit For the way He's gone about the last couple of tournaments. Football's been good as well. Like, they play nice football. You know, they're enterprising.

41:49They try things. And he, as a coach, tries things. I mean, I sat there watching some of the games in the group and thinking, what's Johnny Rowe doing up front? I don't get it. Like, why is Ethan Wanary on the bench? Like, a little bit biased maybe with Arsenal, but I see a very special player in Wanary. But for the sake of that team, you know, He felt that something else would be better. And ultimately, it's been proven right. He made the changes, didn't he, at the right times in this game as well. Putting Johnny Rowe up front again late on to get that winner. So, yeah, he's had a great tournament.

42:25And I'll be honest, I think maybe if Seb's saying five or six of those are going to be in the German senior team, I don't know if a five or six of this England team are. No? I don't. Because nine of the last title winning team from two years ago went on to represent England's seniors. I think Liveramento's nailed on, isn't he? I think Kwanzaa's got a great chance. We're weak at centre-back. I think Elliot Anderson will get his opportunity because it's not a strong position for us in centre-mid. I think Wanary and Archie Gray eventually as the babies of that group will come through. Harvey Elliot's got a chance, but he's up against some stiff competition.

43:03So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I thought that they did amazingly to win it, is my honest opinion. I didn't think that they were the strongest squad or team in the competition. So kudos to the players and to the manager for making great decisions and seizing the moment at the right times. I'm going to write you back on my comment and just say that I think five or six players will be capped. I don't think there'll be five or six hundred cap internationals in that team. I think Reitz, Valtimare has already been capped, of course. Brian Gruder, Atabolo, the goalkeeper from Freiburg is really, really highly rated.

43:42I think Merlin Roll will get a chance at some point. So there are kind of fringe players who will be part of the German squad going forward over the next decade, I think. The other thing to say for Karsley, and under-21 football isn't senior football, but he has beaten and outfought some very, very high-profile opposition at under-21 level. In those two tournaments, England have beaten Germany twice, they've beaten Spain twice, they've beaten the Netherlands and they've beaten Portugal. Like there is nothing else that he could do. It was always, the thought was always that this French under 21 team were so stacked that they were going to dominate.

44:15It never really works like that in under 21 football. It doesn't have to be that you have the best team in the tournament. It is that you find a way of combining players who have, it's a weird mix of have played lots of football, but not on elite level or have played very little football at elite level. That's the thing he's done superbly well. And with the withdrawals as well. He's basically had the perfect two years, right? He won the young 21 Euros. He did the England thing, but with a little bit less pressure and was able to walk away from it himself for someone higher profile to come in. And now winning this tournament, he's basically put himself as the number one candidate for the job next summer if Tuchel leaves, I think.

44:52All right. Under-21 champions twice in a row, under-19 Euro champions as well. 2022, just now for the seniors to do something. And as you say, Thomas Tuchel next summer, We shall see. Very good. Next up, we'll round up some other bits of business and then get on to the women's Euros, which start this Wednesday.

45:17There's a new Totally Gold out. Zubai Asha says, thanks to the release of the Totally Gold shows. I've been going back to listen to the pod's pandemic episodes. I was reminded of multiple European clubs renegotiating players' wages to be either reduced or delayed during COVID, presumably on the basis that they were playing fewer games. So, you know, fair's fair. Given, says Zubair, that certain competitions or games won't have been in the calendar at the time of current players' contracts being signed, like your club World Cup, doesn't this mean that players could equally go to clubs where, listen, this wasn't in our bargain.

45:51Can we negotiate our salary? That's a great point. It is a good point, isn't it? There you go, players. That sound you can hear is billionaires laughing at you. Yeah. Now, Brentford have appointed their new manager. It is Keith Andrews, set-piece coach. Andrews has been assistant manager for MK Dons, Sheffield United and Republic of Ireland. Of course, set-piece coach with Brentford. You don't see many former players becoming set-piece coaches. You don't see many Keiths becoming managers. Opta pointing out that Keith Andrews is only the second Keith to be a permanent manager of a top-flight club in English football history.

46:31Can this be? Did Keith Downey have a, like a, did he not have a kind of prolonged interim spell? No? West Brom, yeah, he did, yeah. Keith Berkinshaw at Spurs was the... So he might be the last, Keith. Could be. Yeah. Keith's one of those names that's just dying. Yeah, there's not many. You don't get many Bryans anymore either. Like, you don't, like, there was definitely a golden age of Brian's coaching. Gary's famously. Keith, just on the subject of Keith's. Where are the Clives going to come from next? Just nobody knows, but Keith's. Prodigy were playing at Glastonbury this weekend, you may have seen, of course, without Keith Flint.

47:15But who else was surprised to hear that Max Sims, the very lively Max Sims, real name is actually Keith. So they had two Keith's Prodigy. Anyway, I digress. Best of luck to Brentford. It's a bit of a gamble that, Daniel. Is it? I mean, yes, it absolutely is. It's probably the most Brentford thing you could imagine, which is to go for the continuity appointment. I think they're doing quite well out of the PR being, oh my God, Brentford, I don't know what they're doing. What the heck are they doing? Like they're going for a novice. It might not work, but it's not like he was fifth choice after they interviewed everybody else.

47:51He was their number one choice. They interviewed him first. They were impressed by it. They then interviewed external candidates and were like, we think this is our guy. I don't think it's just management speak from Phil Giles at Brentford, but he kind of says we appointed him a set-piece coach to have a bigger remit. We don't appoint anyone as a coach if we don't think that they could step up if needs be. They're all the right noises. The problem is that it then comes also with probably losing top scorer and definitely losing captain. And when that happens, there is extra pressure on a new manager.

48:24Brentford's first six home league games of next season are, I think, Villa, Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Newcastle. And they were really bad away from home at the start of last season. So there's a lot of pressure on to win some home games or be a lot better away from home than they were under Thomas Frank around this time last year. And that feels a big ask. All right. One or two other listeners writing in, Stephen Taylor, asks, Is time up for the World Cup as a Northern Hemisphere summer tournament? This touches on what you were saying, Adrian, about the issues for next summer, possibly Daniel.

48:59Given Mreska's Club World Cup comments about storms and heats, etc., are Qatar and Saudi increasingly looking less like outliers. Saudi in 2034, is that likely to be a winter World Cup again, then, I imagine? Yes. Nods from everybody. In terms of football quality, Qatar was really good, wasn't it? Because the players were a little bit fresher. So, yeah, I mean, it was pretty disruptive. It's like all the 2am games UK time at this Club World Cup have been head and shoulders above the games played in the daytime. Midday games have been hard to watch, actually. There's not enough time to build roofs on some of these stadiums, is there?

49:35Well, I wondered, because Atlanta's got a roof, and it really, really, really makes a difference. Yeah, I just think, there must be other stadiums in the US that have roofs. I suspect it's all locked in, but FIFA have got to be aware of that, because your two-hour lightning delays are going to play havoc with all sorts of broadcast schedules. And that's what it's all about. 2029, by the way, is when the next Club World Cup should be rolling around. And four countries have already announced their interest in hosting it. Brazil, which will be exciting. Qatar, you'll enjoy that, Adrian. And Spain and Morocco, who will be jointly co-hosting with Portugal, I think, isn't it?

50:13The World Cup after the... Which one is it? the uh 2030 yeah thank you 2030 but Spain and Morocco both interested in the Club World Cup independently of each other interesting Mike Housen says oh he refers to our recent summary of the Boca Juniors Auckland City game uh and I'd suggested that the second half of Boca's match started because of a weather delay after Benfica had already beaten Bayern so they knew they couldn't go through points out Mike Housen both halves and she started at the second time so Auckland City equalized when Boca Juniors still had everything to play for so all credit to the Kiwis and Christian Grey now one other thing to mention Premier League TV coverage next week next season rather we read will feature touchline interviews with substituted players that's for the first time ever and also it says here camera operators will also be allowed to enter the field of play to capture close-up footage of celebrations and will be granted access to changing rooms okay fine yada yada changing rooms but they're going to go on the pitch to to get close up on goal celebrations yeah the bundles yeah they'll just run on won't they and and get as close i don't mind that i mean as long as they don't injure a player i mean but that's quite a big quite a big thing no get a better camera surely like if your camera from the touchline is not good enough that it can take in the emotion of a celebration.

51:43Your camera's not good enough, mate. Look, interviewing substituted players is going to be hilarious. Because, I mean, when was the last time you met a happy player that had been brought off? Like, they're going to be miserable, most of them. There's going to be... Coming to Nicholas Jackson in three, two... There's going to be one or two which become legendary within a forest of awful banality. there's going to be one guy that just throws his manager right under the bus. And that'll be the only one you remember from all of them for an entire season. I'm really surprised the Premier League clubs have agreed to it.

52:19My grumpy prediction is that question one is some sort of banal tee-up. Question two is, what did you think of penalty decision A, B, C or D? I think that's kind of how it can be used as a very easy headline generator for player says disgrace that wasn't given penalty. and you can have that headline out with the match still going on, that feels kind of where it ends up to me. It's good to have something more to argue and disagree about on the internet. That is what football needed, I think. No ref cam, though, perhaps disappointingly for next season in the Premier League. Now, lots going on this summer, as you've spotted loads of women's football as well, because you've got the Africa Cup of Nations, the Copa America Feminina, And also starting this Wednesday, you've got the Women's Euros.

53:05We'll get on to that next.

53:14This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Yeah, getting up to speed now on the Women's European Championships. It kicks off this Wednesday with Group A. You've got, let's see, Iceland against Finland. That's five o 'clock UK time. then the Swiss who are hosting the tournament up against Norway at eight. Joining us now on the line to tell us who to look out for and why, Michael Cox, who will shortly be heading out to Switzerland. Michael, we're here with Seb Stafford-Bloor and Adrian Clarke and Daniel Storey, with whom you've got a hot date, of course, next week.

53:52Yeah, looking forward to it. Yeah, nice one. Excellent. That's the InterTotally listener, of course. That'll be our final quarterfinal in that. competition but we're here to talk Michael about the women's Euros you're heading out there soon 16 teams four groups of four and you reckon at least six potential winners yeah I think the same six potential winners as going into the tournament three years ago to be honest England and Spain I would say were the the two outright favorites the two who contested the World Cup final two years ago and then I think you got France Germany Sweden and the Netherlands in the mix as well so relatively open I think the crucial thing about the tournament is the draws completely lopsided you've got five teams on the bottom half five of those six teams on the bottom half of the draw and then only Spain from groups A and B so I think it would be a huge surprise if Spain didn't get to the semi-final and there'll probably be another semi-finalist who feels like a bit of an outsider from groups A and B and they might get there without being particularly good or beating anyone particularly impressive.

54:56But I think that sets it up quite nicely because it's nice to have outsiders in the final four and it's nice that we get some really good games from the outset. Spain, I think, are the favourite world champions. They've never won the Euros before. They got a real boost this week with news that Aitana Bonmati will be a winner of the last two Ballon d 'Ors will be back from a nasty bout of viral meningitis. Yeah, we'll have to see on that. I mean, the news only broke on Saturday night that she was in a hospital bed and I think that well she posted a photo on social media without any context and no one really knew what the the story was there but it seems well she's definitely going to be in the squad you know we'll have to wait and see how how fit she is but as I say Spain have got a fairly gentle start to the competition so even if she's not starting in the group stage hopefully she'll be up to full speed by the by the time of the knockouts OK, they're in a group with Portugal, Belgium and Italy.

55:50England's group looks a tasty one. France, Netherlands and Wales in the tournament for the first time. Yeah, it's a tough group. I mean, yeah, three of the six contenders, I would say, in that group. And England start with the toughest two games. I still think England would be the favourites to progress from that group. I don't think the Netherlands are the force they were, certainly not when they won it eight years ago now. And France, I mean, they always have a good squad and a good 11 on paper, but there's always just issues with actually clicking on the pitch and maybe some issues with dressing room harmony at times as well.

56:26So it does feel, you know, it seems like there's been a bit of doom and gloom around England over the last month or so with, you know, the dropouts of Mary Ops and Millie Bright. But I still think they've got a good squad. I think they've got a better squad than when they won it three years ago, to be honest. and I also think you know there's been question marks about the lack of experience with Erps and Bright dropping out but actually this is again it's a more experienced squad than it was three years ago because you've got the core of the squad that's got to two finals in a row so yeah England should still get out of the group and it must be said Wales who are probably the only well them and Poland probably the only real outsiders in this competition have been really unlucky to be drawn into by far the toughest group and yeah I don't think it's unfair to say that just getting a single point would be quite a good achievement for Wales from this tournament yeah I agree the England squad's slightly better this time around and three years ago Serena Wigman was definitely the best tactician the best head coach at the tournament is that still the case and as a supplementary question last time out it was Russo and Toon off the bench to to change games who are the who are the difference makers this time I mean I still I think Wigman, I mean, she's won the last two tournaments and the last two World Cups she's got to the final.

57:41So I don't really see any major candidates to be a better manager than her at this point in time. And in terms of the squad, yeah, I mean, obviously we have to wait and see who's actually going to start games. But it could be the Eletunes' super sub again, because I think Lauren James has a good chance she'll play in that number 10 role. Again, out wide, you've got similar options, really. Mead and Hemp and Chloe Kelly. Whichever one of those doesn't start, I think, is a potential game changer from the bench. And then up front, you've got Aggie Beaver-Jones, who has had a couple of really good seasons for Chelsea.

58:14And is just one of those players who just straight away has looked at home in the England team. I assume she's going to be the backup striker with Russo starting. So, yeah, I think that certainly going forward, I think the options are stronger than they've been before. I think that the area of concern is midfield. I mean, I think England have only selected five midfielders and one of them, Georgia Stanway, has played about half an hour of football this year. So that's an issue. And if there are, if there's more than one injury in defence, I think they might struggle a bit as well, just in terms of replacements.

58:47And of course, the goalkeeper situation, neither of the backups have been capped before. So you don't really want to throw one of those into a big knockout game. But certainly in terms of, you know, usually I think it's attacking subs that make the difference. And I think in that respect, England are really well stocked. Germany, Michael, winner of eight of the previous 13 tournaments. How do they look for this one? Well, they look very different from two years ago. I mean, they went out in the group stage of World Cup 2023, which was slightly bizarre because they won their first game 6-0 against Morocco.

59:21And then Morocco went through ahead of them in the group, which was pretty odd. since then they've really uh regenerated the squad five or six established players have have uh retired or no longer in contention they've got a really good group of young attacking players i like the look of laura freygang a really good number 10 for eintracht frankfurt i think the issue is i think this debate has come up with the germany men's team but i'm not sure they're really producing any natural defenders anymore i mean they're going to have a couple of i mean very attacking players in the back four a couple who probably more at home in midfield And I do think it tends to be defences who win the knockout stage of big competitions like this.

1:00:00So we'll have to wait and see. My suspicion is that it's probably a tournament too early for Germany. But they are. They're coming again. They've got a good generation. But yeah, might be two years time where they're really challenged for a tournament. All right. A couple of must-watch games from the opening fixtures. What would you point us towards? England versus France, I think, is the obvious one. Group D is the one with three contenders. And England and France is a good way to start the tournament. And the day before that, you've got a Scandinavian derby between Denmark and Sweden. I think that will play a big part in deciding probably who follows Germany out of Group C.

1:00:35They did actually play about a month ago in the Nations League and Sweden won 6-1, which is a pretty good omen. But yeah, I think those two will be the ones to watch. But I think the nice thing about this tournament is, it might sound really basic, but it's just the right number of teams. and when we've got used to the Euros and the World Cup and the men's side, you know, tournaments with numbers that one are too big and two don't really make sense because you've got third place teams going through, you can never really work out which games are crucial and which are not. But I love a 16-team tournament, just two games a day, no hopers in this tournament.

1:01:12So I think it's going to be a pretty good tournament overall. Excellent. England will be taking on France next Saturday, the 5th of July, at 8 o 'clock, just about an hour after the 90 minutes is up with the PSG Bayern game at the Club World Cup. So, I mean, weather permitting. So that makes a pretty exciting Saturday evening for us all. Anything else we should know, Michael, before we let you head off to Switzerland? No, just to say that we've got loads of good coverage on the Athletic coming up. We've got a really good team going over to Switzerland. And, yeah, there'll be tons of really good features we've got lined up for the tournament.

1:01:50So yeah, if you want some coverage, the Athletic is where to head.

1:01:57Michael Cox, that England-France game and indeed all the tournament will be on ITV and BBC. Not that you'd know it though, eh, Daniel? Yeah, I don't know if this is a kind of old man shouts at clouds thing or if I've just missed it. But I watch quite a lot of the BBC, for example, and I've just not really seen much kind of build-up coverage. It felt like, I think they've had a difficulty whereby the last Euros was in England, and so it was a massive hype and it went brilliantly. And then Australia was pretty much the worst place to then have the World Cup for that to continue because of the time difference, etc.

1:02:31Even though it did build up with England getting to the final. And I was out there and it felt like a moment in Australia that was brilliant. It just maybe didn't get fully reflected back home. And now this is the first tournament that should have been really hyped up. and I've just not seen that much build-up. You were at Saturday's game where England's, the Lionesses beat Jamaica 7-0. Yeah, and again, like around the city, you know, I live 15 miles away from Leicester. Yeah, yeah, and I live 15 miles away from Leicester and look, there are not massive billboards in the little village I live in anyway, but I've just not seen, yeah, again, I didn't really see, I only kind of realised about that game two or three days before.

1:03:11It feels like there should be a bit more hype about a tournament in which, let's remember, England are the defending champions. Yeah, indeed. Maybe it'll all pick up as the tournament gets underway. Adrian? One thing I will say is that I think over in Switzerland, they've sold a bucket load of tickets. Oh, good. I saw it announced this week that I think they've sold over 600 ,000, which is more than in the entirety of the tournament that was held here three years ago. So we should, unlike the Club World Cup, see fairly full stadiums, which always makes it a better spectacle, doesn't it? And I think it will kick off.

1:03:51It will kick on in terms of publicity because last time it was just sensational, wasn't it? Yeah, nice. Excellent. Are they excited in Germany, Seb, briefly? Yeah, there has been some promotion. I mean, some of the German players did a feature with German Vogue. there's been some pretty good advertising promotion on German TV yeah I mean I think most people are aware of it and the players have been a bit prominent in the media so yeah and you know we're pretty close here to Switzerland and I think people are excited about unfortunately Lena Oberdorf is not going to the tournament which is a big blow for Germany but I think people are excited about it and optimistic but then Germans are when it comes to football right nice great quality to have Very good.

1:04:34Well, our next show is on Thursday, so we'll reflect on the opening day's events. Group A in action with Switzerland and that. Very good. That, though, wraps it up for today's show. Oh, also on Thursday, just to mention, it'll be the next quarterfinal of the Intertotally Cup, which features Duncan Alexander against... Producer Charlie. Producer Charlie. Yes. former winner producer Charlie of course we'll see how that match goes and bring you more Club World Cup and Women's Euros and other stuff too on Thursday in the Totally Football Show for now it's many many thanks to Seb and Adrian and to Daniel and Michael producer Charlie and you listener we'll speak to you soon for now from all of us here it's goodbye

1:05:30For more great football podcasts like this one, including The Athletic FC, and our six dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify, and all the usual places. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:05:49The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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