Man United crushed in Como. And is Kane England’s best ever?

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1:45Totally Football Show. Big Bond movie vibes to Wednesday's action with the Villa, Lake Como, an ingenious Arsenal and a night of hot cest. We talk Lakers v Basket Cases, Man United in Como and playing like they're in one, Villa going top of the table briefly, the Gunners munching with rice and all the other Wednesday games. Plus a look ahead to the weekend with Chelsea Spurs, Liverpool Brighton and Duncan with the tube map of hatred. It's the Totally Football Show.

2:17Unbelievable, unbelievable news. Thursday, 22nd of October. Please join me in welcoming to this Totally Football Show, Duncan Alexander. Well, hello. Hi, Duncan. And his tube map of hatred. So I got it. Yeah? Yeah. Man of Pickfair, Benji Laniado. Jimbo. Hi, Benji. How are you? Yeah, I'm well. Good. And yourself? Good, yeah. Thankful that Pickfair isn't built on PHP. I don't know if you've seen the news this morning. Oh, yeah. The web is burning down. The wrong programming language that everyone chose 25 years ago is now being exposed. Not Picfair, however. Ruby on Rails. You knew that, didn't you, Duncan?

2:57Yeah, I wake up every day. Modern JavaScript languages. Other frameworks are available. Tom Williams also joins us today. Hello, James. Are you built on PHP? I hope not. Maybe I'll just suddenly disappear mid-pod. Are you vulnerable? The PHP has got him just dragged down to the depths. I'm quite vulnerable. In a nice way. Tom you've been workshopping something to do with Como Come over And Man United What have you come up with Yeah well it would have been more helpful If United weren't Because I was thinking You know Is this The start of You know The revolt Or is it merely a comb over Of the results Oh right yeah Could you not say Is it all comb over For Carrick And not in a Sexy Bobby Charlton way Well I mean you could And in fact you just did Oh okay Something to think on That was one of the key matches On Wednesday Como Police.

3:47Is that another Como Chameleon? Como Police. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. There was also Bayern Arsenal, which was huge, in a kind of early stage of the league phase way. And Villa Wicking and loads of other things to talk about. And we've got Premier League on the way. Also, Benji's going to tell us about what's happening with the Hammers. Sure thing. And, Duncan, the tube map of hatred. When are you bringing that in? Because none of us know what it is. I will bring it in in and around Chelsea Spurs oh yeah alright let's get some Wednesday night Champions League results Arsenal battled to a 2-2 draw away to Bayern and United didn't they lost 4-1 at Como Willa had a 3-1 victory against Wiking making it 3 wins out of 3 for Unai Emery's side also 3-3 Real Madrid who beat Leipzig 4-1 Yandir Mande with the pick of the goals there against his former club That noise again, Benji?

4:46Oh, indeed. Real Betis, too, among the five sides that have made a perfect start to this season's Champions League campaign. This time, Manuel Pellegrini's side beating Feyenoord. Elsewhere, Galatasaray beat Lille 4-2. Viktor Ozyman up against his former side and scoring. Club Bruges were 3-0 against Lens. In Milan, Inter went a man down against Shakhtar Donetsk. Alessandro Bastoni with what looked like being another really damaging red card sent off with 20 minutes to go but Inter did manage to go on to win it with 10 men thanks to a very sexy goal from Carlos Augusto the Brazilian but it's all about the pass did you see the pass Duncan?

5:32I didn't from Mkhitaryan Mkhitaryan oh lovely gorgeous that's 4 wins out of 4 for Serie A clubs this week you'll recall that last week was all doom and gloom because they'd lost all four Serie A clubs had lost in that Champions League match day this time they all won I don't know Kurt Fischl's back the fifth Champions League spot dream is alive is it? yeah I've not been following actually I've not actually I mean the Premier League's going to get one and then I think it'll be in a battle between Spain, Italy and Germany for the other one right so tune in okay finally and last but not least the side from Lens or Lins is it Lins?

6:13It is Linz. Yeah. Got their first ever Champions League victory, Benji. I only discovered that they were from Linz last night when I looked it up. I thought it was a bit of a shame. Did you guys know they were from Linz? Yes. Yes. Are the famous people from Linz anyone? A composer. Ruckner, the composer. That's the one I had in mind. The organist. And also a lovely young man by the name of Adolf Hitler spent quite a lot of his time there as a young person. That's why if you were in the Linz marketing board, you'd say, don't call yourself a lass for God's sake. Bring some attention back on the name, Linz.

6:45You know? Former Wolves man Sasha Kaladzic among the scorers in their 3-2 victory away at Sporting, who equally don't really highlight their hometown in their name. Well, they hate it. They just don't highlight it. They get genuinely angry if anyone says it. But Lisbon doesn't need it. What I'm saying is Linz could do with some hype, you know? Maybe, given some of the things you talked about, they should be quite happy to keep their heads down. Oh, maybe, yeah. Well, in France, they are known as Lusk-Linz. Oh, there you go. Because the French are quite keen on always having that city name in the title.

7:20When I worked at Opta once, we had some German colleagues in the DFB, and they wanted us to change the name of Arsenal and Chelsea, et cetera, in the database. To London, Arsenal, London, Chelsea. I've told you, I once saw a bunch of... Is it going to be London Hotspur? Well, I think Tottenham Hotspur they were fine with. Oh. Because Tottenham's an area. I'm sure I've told you I once saw a tribe of Borussia Dortmund fans walking through central London. They were all singing, Who the **** are Chelsea London? Thinking they were being really kind of intimidating and they were going to really wind the Chelsea fans up by singing this.

7:55I didn't feel like it was the moment. Sorry, guys. A chant sponsored by Teemu. Well, West Ham and Barrett team have put London on their crest to kind of make this more marketable. It was ridiculous. Oh, really? Yeah, horrible. There's other clubs that you know by their initials like Pauk. Pauk. But that is Thessaloniki, right? Yes. Again, it's a great place. Advertise Thessaloniki, no? No, that is fair. PSV, but everyone knows it's Eindhoven, right? No. Give me a tea. NEC, is it Breda? Yes, it is. No. Anyway. So, anyway, those are games that took place. Let's begin with Bayern Arsenal. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

8:34Bayern Arsenal finished 2-2 on Wednesday night. It was a big game of Wednesday's fixture list. It didn't disappoint, I think. Who was across this one? Very much so. Yes, Duncan. All right. An impressive point for Arsenal? Yeah, I think so. I think Arsenal shaded the game, but I think a draw was fair. Obviously, Bayern were reduced in terms of personnel with Elise suspended, Diaz on the bench, Serge Gnabry, who just continues to just be at Bayern. That was his job. Right. Joshua Kimmich also didn't play because of a family. Yeah, that was sad. His dad had died. Vincent Kompany was back after being quite ill, I think.

9:13So, yeah, it wasn't Bayern at their sort of 100 % best. Mind you, it was an Arsenal team who lost Bukai Osaka eight minutes into the game. Yeah, really strange injury. He kind of went to play a pass. And, I mean, it reminded me of when Tom and I played at Old Trafford, as we were saying earlier. They absolutely messed it up and kind of like, I don't know, sort of hit it with the end of his foot rather than where he meant to. Yeah, and then immediately... Yeah, the toes, as they're known in many places. But then immediately reached for his thigh. It was no kind of, oh, what of that specific... Something was he knew he'd...

9:44Something twang. And Arteta said afterwards, it sounds like a bad one. He felt something sharp straight away. Oh, no. Is he a croc now? Is he just one of these perennially injured players? I think if this is a different injury, I think that's fine. I think if it was another hamstring, which I don't think it was, but... They talked about a quad injury. And he looked really sharp. He was only on the pitch for like seven or eight minutes, but he looked really on it. Yeah. I mean, Bayern played Alphonso Davies as a sort of left winger, which was interesting. But yeah, I mean, Arsenal brought on Eze.

10:16He obviously had a bit of a nightmare at the weekend against Forrest. And he was great. Scored the opener. A lovely, lovely pass as standard from Martin Odegaard. Right. And lashed in. I thought Manuel Neuer was maybe not at fault with both goals, but it felt like a younger goalkeeper might have got to them a little bit. He made up the Neuer shape, didn't he? Yeah. The trademark human cuboid. I'm a goalkeeper, but yeah. Mainly for kicking. Bayern equalised, though, through the aforementioned Alphonso Davies. But again, what a ball. What a ball from Harry Kane. A defence splitter. Not only did he play that amazing pass, which was finished with a plomb, He also, at one point in the half, took a goal kick.

11:03He took a goal kick, didn't he? And a hell of a goal kick. I think it might be my favourite moment of the last five years of football. We know that Harry Kane's been dropping deeper and deeper. Your uncle will watch a game. What's Harry Kane doing there? Did he not play in goal once? Yeah, he did for Spurs. Yeah, really? Sort of completed. That's deep. But there were moments last night watching the game, and I looked at Bayern, and I thought, oh, are they playing in a back five all of a sudden? Because there's an extra centre-back. But it was Kane. And he was doing it. And he just hangs out there.

11:30He was doing that for England over the summer. Wherever he wants to hang out. Well, that pass for the goal is why I think he should win the Ballon d 'Or. Because you look at all these kind of 40-goal-a-seasoners like Haaland and Mbappe, they can't play, they don't play balls like that. They don't take goal kicks. They don't take goal kicks, no way. They're all doing it now. But it generally is the thing that I think at the moment makes him stand out as an all-round wonderful footballer. You do wonder whether his teammates are a little bit like, oh Harry come on like you know I'll take over lads yeah well at least he's not taking corners like he did at Euro 2016 yeah you're not going to forget that are you Vinci nah I posted this observation on social media last night like we now realise that Harry Kane is probably the greatest goal scorer that England have ever had oh definitely but I think in addition to that he is the best passer that England have had it's at least like Glenn Hoddle was the first one who came to mind a slightly underwhelming international career Glenn Hoddle but in terms of quality of passing.

12:30I can't think of another English player, another British player who I've ever seen who can pass the ball that well. And on top of that, he's the greatest... He's a crosser passer, though. I was just thinking... Technically, Beckham was a great passer, but he wasn't a defence-splitting passer. He was the best crosser of a ball of his generation. He could ping a 70-yard cross-field pass, but he didn't kind of, you know... Largely because he wasn't played in the middle. And Trent's part of that argument as well. But I think you're right in terms of that kind of playing a defence splitting pass from the middle.

13:00Yeah, I mean, he's probably England's greatest ever player, isn't he? Is he? I think so, yeah. I mean, you'd have to sort of say, you know, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, they won something, yeah, or whoever Duncan just said as well. I think Jimmy Greaves, I mean, there is the documentary on Jimmy Greaves where you see his goals and it's like, oh, right, he was, like, massive, like, in terms of the way he played. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There were loads of goals I'd never seen before. And, I mean, we're all too young. But Kane's going to get 100. Kane's going to like double the... Is it Bobby Charlton?

13:31No, it's Rooney was the one. On what? What's Rooney got? Like 52? 53, I think. Kane's going to double that. Kane will double it. I think, you know, it's kind of case closed. Rooney put it in. I'll double that. I still remember when Rooney overtook Bobby Charlton. Oh, yeah. He gave a speech in the dressing room afterwards that was recorded. and he said then and I'm sure Harry sitting next to me will go on to get just as many if not more or did he? yeah I mean Charlie will be able to verify this but I'm pretty sure at that moment he already knew that this guy was going all the way I think when Kane scores his first goal for England the first person to congratulate him was Rooney so there's a nice little Bobby Chutton wasn't on the pitch at the time which is disappointing is there any argument for him not getting the Ballon d 'Or I think it's probably his this year isn't it?

14:18well we'll see we'll see debate has been raging on other podcasts from this stable but in this one I was going to go on to mention some other things from that game including Harry Kane lashing in a vicious shot with the scoreline 1-1 which produced not one not two but I think three handballs from the Arsenal defenders at least one at least one two it was Timber's handball that was peen like Timber was the handball and then it kind of hits Gabriel but his arm is against him I think it was about here do you think OK, anyway, a spot kit was decreed, which Kane stepped up and put away with aplomb.

14:57That is now 16 goals that Harry has scored against Arsenal in his stellar career. Nine of those being from the spot. Merciless. There you go. Anyway, that's Bayern 2-1. It looks set to finish that way until, Duncan? Declan Rice stepped up to make it four English-speaking goal scorers in one game. and three I think members of the England World Cup squad all having a lovely time in Munich yeah great work from Madueke who obviously swapped flanks when Saka went off and was really good I thought he was really good against Forrest and then the much maligned Big Vic Gokerez did some lovely little layup play for Rice who a bit like Eze lashed it across Neuer and made it 2-2 and yeah fair result OK.

15:43What it means, both teams get a point, they lose their perfect starts, but... They've been drawn already, haven't they? Oh, you're right. They had in the previous game against Viking. Indeed. So they might be slightly in doubt for the top eight places, or considerably, in fact. We shall see. Once we get a bit deeper into the league phase, we can start checking out the table. But Arsenal's prospects, Saka's absence. This weekend, for example, they're taking on Everton. This is the fixture in which Max Dowman scored that incredible goal last season. The day the Wi-Fi went down at the Emirates. Is that right?

16:22Yeah. I was working that day. That's how everyone remembers it. All the journalists there were like, what's happening? Because that was the only thing they could do. Dowman's just scored. I mean, yeah, it was fine. But no one could fight anything for about 15 minutes. So, yeah. Wow. That's how good the goal was. Well. But he might get... Do you think he might? I mean, I think he'll go with Eze and Madueke again. Okay. But I think Downman is now the next cab on the rack. Chance for Eze, because I think he's had great moments for Arsenal so far. I've got the hat-trick against Spurs. Some crucial goals in Newcastle.

17:02Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he, as a huge Eze fan, was kind of annoyed when he went to Arsenal, because there's not an obvious place for him. Whereas now maybe he'll get a run there with Solis out for a while. Solis is still a few weeks away, yeah. I think with, you know, and obviously I watched Jose at Wickham, which was a great small period. But he is the sort of player, I think, within a few minutes of a game, you can kind of tell if he's going to have a good game. Like the Forest game, he didn't start well. He never really pulled it back. Whereas against Bayern, he came on and was immediately really good.

17:32I think once he gets on a little, you know, little run, he's good. I just hope that it's not like he peaked the minute he joined Arsenal and just becomes a kind of fringe player. He shouldn't be in the England squad anymore, for example. Well, that's a bit harsh. He does offer something that I think other England players don't offer. Does he? I think so, yeah. I think there are other things he can do. I guess Morgan Rodgers, but there's a kind of creativity that he brings. I think a big issue he's got this season is Martin Odegaard starting the season so well and looking back to his best because Eze is the most obvious alternative to him.

18:07And if Erdegaard is doing the business, then you don't really need to take him out of the team. Well, questions that Mikel Arteta will be pondering ahead of this weekend's visit from Everton. Let's get on to another Premier League manager with plenty on his mind, Michael Carrick, after what happened Wednesday on the shores of Lake Como.

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19:30plan and device payment purchase or separate agreements with separate terms service plan for watch or ipad required additional terms apply for all offers guessing is for game shows not your business workday is the enterprise ai platform for hr finance and it with ai grounded in your context to get work done and done right it's a new workday

19:55this is the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Let's talk some Man United. Move over Grimsby. There's a new Nadir in town. This has been wildly hailed as the worst Manchester United performance. We do say that a lot, don't we? But it did feel on a weekly basis. It made a compelling case, I would say. It did, with the caveat that Como are brilliant. like United losing to Como is less embarrassing than United getting bundled out of the league cut by Grimsby right they're both by bodies of water similar places very similar places but yeah I mean it did I think that you know perhaps the factor that made it seem even worse was that immediately after the game Bruno Fernandes basically threw Michael Carrick and the rest of the coaching staff under the bus under the pedalo under the pedalo A week on from Alessandro Martinez calling out Jason Wilcox.

20:59It's like they're picking off every named member of sporting management one after the other. But yeah, I mean, United... Comer were exceptional, but United were extremely poor. There are two sides, it's for sure. Gazetta this morning talking about the most important result in Comer's history, Comer in Paradiso, as they say. They also ask if their readers can remember Frank Illet, who was the Man United fan who 100 games ago vowed not to get a haircut until they got five consecutive victories. What does he look like now, they ask. True banker. Yeah. Yeah, you'd think. But the best night of Cesc Fabregas' managerial career.

21:42But equally, it was against the worst Man United that I can remember. It wasn't just that they were tactically inept. It wasn't just that they didn't press, as Bruno brought up in the post-game. It's the fact that they looked objectively in no way interested in defending against Cologne. I don't think they could. It was the physicality, which is what Bruno mentioned after the game. We started the week, obviously, with the athletics interview of Eric Ten Hag, when Ten Hag was complaining about Ronaldo in particular not running. And now Bruno's like, well, we're not able to run enough. I think a lot of the issues were structural.

22:19There were issues in terms of people putting in a shift. But you look at the way that United set up. They played Bruno Fernandes and Juri Tielemans through the middle. With Brian Umbermo on the right and Matthias Kuhner on the left. And basically tried to defend in a 4-2-4. Bruno Fernandes was trying to lead the press. And within like two or three minutes, by which time United were already a goal down, he was already flinging his arms around doing the whole Bruno Fernandes thing. He was more of the false knight. And this is the sort of... I think the Man United job is quite unique in that it drives managers crazy.

22:51Like Carrick... So Bruno is, I think, probably the best number eight of the last sort of decade, right? How do you define him? Well, as a kind of... He's not a number 10 who's behind the centre forward. He's kind of an attacking central midfielder, a sort of... From deeper. A little bit deeper, but ultimately is more attacking than defensive. You're four or you're six. I mean, if you're Ruben Amrum, he's an adequate number six, but yeah, fine. Anyway, so... But he has played everywhere but there over the last three, four games now. He's been playing on the right wing with Telemans in the middle.

23:21Tonight he played as a false knight. He's coming off the best season of his entire career. And I think either that is Carrick going mad, because this is what happens to Manchester United managers, or Bruno's exhausted. But either way, something's clearly very wrong there. And also, I feel for the Man United fans that you see Como away, you're like, lovely, go and have a bit of time on the lakes. Did you see the weather? It was Mancunian. Rain for 24 hours. Exactly. So they went to Como, got walloped and it rained on them. But the issue with the structure was that, you know, we know how Como play.

23:50They create overloads all over the place, particularly in the middle of the pitch. And it just made it so easy for them to pick United off because it took like one or two passes. And United have four players the wrong side of the ball. A central midfield duo of Mason Mount and Andre Santos, who just look completely overwhelmed. And they just didn't get to grips with it at all. There was that very brief moment early in the second half where Carrick changed things, sent on Carlos Baleba and Ahmad Diallo. And United started playing with a little bit more verve. And within three minutes, they're 2-0 down.

24:21That was the one where Haram Gouard seemed to almost point Nico Paz towards goal. Yeah. And Matisse de Ligt, who was making his first start since forever, looked so completely off the pace. because Anastasios Duvicas looked like he was going to run down the inside left channel and then run across De Ligt. And De Ligt just didn't even respond. It's like he couldn't even see it. It's like he momentarily made himself invisible. Like, what? He runs through and tucks it in. Baléber gives the ball away in the build-up to the third goal. Fourth goal follows in after. Nico Paz. I've not properly watched Como before, so I'd never really seen Nico Paz in action.

24:59That was, I think, the best game that I've seen him have. What a player. Yeah, possibly the most 90s coded footballer alive in the world today. A number 10 who's quite slow, left-footed. Reminds me, it looks a little bit and plays a little bit like Javier Pastore, kind of tall, slow number 10, but very, very talented. Go on. Kakar-esque is the comparison. Oh, I don't know about that. It's not got the same kind of speed. It doesn't have the acceleration, I don't think. But with Paz, he also scored in Messi's final game. He did. You do wonder if that will be talked about. It is really the new message.

25:32Well, the Kaká comparison is interesting, because Kaká was at the heart of the previous European nadir of this nature for Man United when they lost 3-0 at San Siro against Milan back in 2007. But this, Tom, you're absolutely right, there were huge structural issues. Brennan Fernandes saying there was decision, what did he say? It was decision from the staff not to press man to man. he responded when asked about their abilities to exert any press. It was the first thing he said as well. And this was put to Carrick in the press conference. And Carrick said, well, in the second half, we did press man-to-man a little bit.

26:08Right. You've got to run around as well. But yeah, of all the teams, can you imagine if that Man United team went man-to-man with Como? I mean, I can see where Fernandez is coming from in that they did just kind of stand off them and allow them to play their football. And a guy like Paz, you can't give him that sort of space because he will just tear you apart, which is what happened. But also, do United have the personnel? When you've got Fernandes and Tielemans as your key pressers, I'm not sure they're all that well suited to it either. And that's the fans' issue, isn't it? All the talk and all the good run at the end of last season and we're back in the Champions League, they didn't really build on that.

26:45They spent less money than most teams in the Premier League, yet hashtag their Manchester United Football Club. We know they've got a few financial concerns. and yeah how are we back in this cycle? Hasn't we an interim manager getting the job permanently United can't cope next season maybe they'll just be in the league someone will come in and do really well and they'll qualify the Champions I can't do it again But hasn't Antonio Conte moved into the Lowry like he's on manoeuvres already trying to get the job Has he moved into the Lowry that is a pretty Well apparently he's sent representatives to Manchester He's moved into hotel football and he's just watching through a pair of binoculars looking at the stage him like this.

27:25That's what I've heard. United faithful, I think, are divided on the prospect of Conte He did an interview with Mr. James Horncastle a few weeks ago and he said he was wanting to come back to England and he wanted to come to a club who had great history but hadn't had a title for a long time. Tick, tick. Who did it be? Sheffield Wednesday. And they're based in Manchester but not Manchester City. It's Stockport. Amazon Prime, Duncan, if you're keen to relive this cycle in all its glory come the end of the season, I'll make a all or nothing and it's very much the latter right now for Manchester United the question is if they don't move on from Carrick because as yet there doesn't seem to be any indication that they will the players I don't think seem to be playing for him in yesterday's performance or perhaps they're just too bamboozled how bad will it get for Manchester United I'm sorry Manchester United Football Club they are currently 13th in the table and their fixture list is well they had famously the easiest start to the middle of the season.

28:25What happens when you get an easy start? You get a medium or a harder bit to follow. Still only two victories so far. They haven't won a game in seven, which is their worst since the days of Ten Hag. I looked up the Champions League record this decade. I think it's worse since Van Haal. Van Haal, sorry. Yes. Yeah, another mad Dutch manager. I looked up their record in the Champions League this decade because, you know, their Manchester United football club, they're a Champions League team. They've played 23 games in a decade in the Champions League, which isn't good. They've won eight of them.

28:57Good Lord. Well, their next Champions League game is against Roma. Before that, they've got Bournemouth at the weekend and then Chelsea. Bournemouth, you could file under the easier fixtures that they were looking forward to at the start of the season. They do. And Bruno's on the longest run without a goal or assist since 2023. So he's very much, I think, part of the problem, or maybe ultimately is the problem in that, well, he's dropping form because for a good few seasons now, that's been absolutely critical to Manchester United, sort of keeping their head above water. But then, as you said, the fact that he's been playing in peculiar positions, like he's been out on the right, he was playing as like kind of nominal false nine.

29:43but like it seems to be that Michael Kark is trying to put Juri Tielemans in the central creative role and Fernandes is having to occupy other positions because of that which again is just curious he's not a 10 though Tielemans I think they all need to be a little bit deeper let's not forget how United ended last season the last few weeks where they were their sole mission in life was to get Bruno Fernandes the 21 assists which I thought disrespected and undermined the whole edifice of the Premier League. So, you know, roundabouts. It's going to be interesting to see how the next few days play out before the clash with Bournemouth, which is Sunday afternoon.

30:23Bournemouth, who finally won a game against Sunday last weekend and who drew 4-4 at Old Trufford last season. Yeah, indeed so. Yep, Man United-Bournemouth Sunday at 2. Although they have got the maybe biggest game of their entire existence tonight. Bournemouth. Yeah. Thursday night against Milan. Yeah, so it might be slightly after the Lord Mayor's show, but we'll see. Possibly, possibly. Will they fare any better against Italian opposition than Sunday's opponents did? I mean, to be fair, for Bournemouth fans back in the day, saying successive visitors, AC Man Utd away. And you've got a good chance in both.

31:01They probably go, yes, please. Yes. I mean, I don't know if they say that in Bournemouth. I imagine they probably do. Aston Villa are flying three wins out of three for a while. on Wednesday night. They were top of the Champions League ahead of your PSGs and all that sort of continental stuff. So Unai Emery, he's done it again. Extraordinary. Last time Benji was on, you were... I know, got a bit of grief for this and sort of Mia... I basically said... What did you say? I said that he may well walk because they've had their spine ripped out. Walk up to the plinth to pick up a trophy, man. Well, I mean, absolute Mia Carr.

31:34But first of all, I got done by a Aston Villa, Unai Emery, poor start to the season, drop of the shoulder. Same thing happened last year. they didn't win until the end of September anyway I go and draw some conclusions and it turns out I'm very wrong the thing that was not only is he seemingly having a lovely old time and rebuilding the squad but you see him on the touchline yesterday he was all in absolutely all in this meant a lot to really get up and running in the Champions League so yeah I'm sorry Aston Villa fans I got it wrong well last week saw them win 6-0 their biggest ever European result how was this one was it 3-1 against Vicking less sort of swashbuckling but just really effective I mean Ross Barkley it's funny the first two girls Ross Barkley with a header Emi Buendia penalty you know we talk about and yes Emery has rebuilt this team brilliantly but you know Barkley and Buendia yeah fair enough then an own goal to make it 3-0 and then Veking pulled one back with probably the best well definitely the best girl of the game a sort of De Canio Haaland Kung Fu air volley that was ruled out.

32:41And then VR was like, that's actually fine. Mbaye started, who looks absolutely rapid. His cameo on the weekend against Newcastle, he came on, played 15 minutes, I think, and completed more successful dribbles, basically beat his man more times than anyone else in the entire game. And I think Emery's kind of like gradually easing him in. But I think him, Manzambi and Alisson looks quite good. Alisson played really well last night. That's a nice front four, I think. And Lemonhead fans might be pleased now Alisson is starting to happen. But, yeah, he looks remarkably like Morgan Rodgers and runs like him as well.

33:19So it's a good job. Interesting. Man City at the weekend for Aston Villa, a fixture that City have lost for the last three seasons in a row. Yeah. And we know that, you know, teams can't win forever. So City's run is going to end. And it usually ends at Villa Park. right Villa's run by the way of three straight victories in three games at this which is what straight implies but anyway in their three games so far in the Champions League they've won all three of them will be tested in a very real sense on match day four of this Champions League season when they visit Barcelona Benji Barcelona ooh still haven't won at home in the league though this season Villa like scoring goals for fun in the Champions League nine in the last two home games but because there's a lot of talk about the redevelopment of the North Stands.

34:10I like that. The aesthetic at the moment is so early 90s. It's very clean, isn't it? It is. It's very Blackburn the year before they won the league or Manchester United rebuilding the Stratford Bridge. Stratford Bridge. Yeah, I enjoy it. I've not had that for a while. Every time I see it, I'm desperate for someone to recreate the celebration. I can't remember who it was where they go and sit down in a row. And applaud their own goal. And applaud their own goal. Brilliant. Who was that? Where was that? I think it was someone in the lower leagues. I feel like it might not have been like a famous player but someone who made themselves famous with the celebration Feels a bit Jimmy Bullard-ish doesn't it Well think about that Well think about that Loads still to come including Duncan's tube map of hate but other Champions League things from Wednesday night Tom you were keeping an eye on Real Madrid as they also continued a perfect start to this Champions League campaign 4-1 against Leipzig Yeah another very open game and as we were discussing on the Europod this week I think the lack of real jeopardy for the big clubs means that they do feel they can just kind of go at it a little bit more than perhaps they would have done in the old group phase this is very open in the early stages and Madrid were indebted to Thibaut Courtois for making a couple of really good saves one really smart save down to his left and then a one-on-one save from Christopher Nkunku and then Madrid took control and scored progressively nicer goals.

35:34First goal was pretty scruffy. Kylian Mbappe, who's in really good form at the moment, scored that lovely goal at the weekend against Sevilla. Beautiful goal. All of their goals against Sevilla were amazing. Ball gets played into his feet and he shifts it wide to, I think it was Federico Valverde. He pulls it back. Arda Goulair has a shot saved. And the goalkeeper just loses the ball. He's in this kind of complete panic. Bernardo Silva toes it over the line from about three inches. second goal similarly it was very Tom Williams old Trafford it was very much so yeah Cross I think Cross comes in from the left Mbappe's trying to score I think ends up heading it back across goal Arda Goulair scores from maybe three inches further out than Silva had okay but then the third goal was lovely Mbappe with a curl of the edge of the box and the fourth goal Yandy Amonde against his former club gets picked out he's kind of loitering on the left hand edge of the penalty area gets picked out by a cross and the cross is so perfect he doesn't really have to adjust his feet he just walks onto it crashes a volley with the laces right into the top left corner in the same top left corner he put it in against Sevilla yeah I'm watching these last two Real Madrid games everyone's talking about Barca and PSG and Arsenal and Bayern I think Real Madrid could be the romantic underdog story of this Champions League really generally they're front four if they've got Vinny, Bellingham Diamande and Mbappe I mean come on yeah the rest of the team is what you need to worry about.

37:01Maybe. That's why it's the Floress and Zoperas. Look at the starting 11. Just look at the forwards. Yep, looks good to me. This team is ready to go. It's convinced me. It's convinced me anyway. Okay. I think tougher tests might await them down the line. Let's see. They do have a pretty important examination this weekend when they'll be travelling to Barcelona for the Clasico. Ooh. Anyway, elsewhere you had Inter, victorious 1-0 against Shakhtar. Wasn't a great performance. Certainly wasn't helped by Bastoni's red card. But we mentioned Carlos Augusto's goal. Galatasaray, great victory for them.

37:414-2 away at Lille. Real Betis, they're also three wins from three. They beat Feyenoord this time. Only a penalty separating the side, though. So, sides converted by Isco. Lask with their first ever Champions League win. I mean, if there's anything from these you want to pick out, then by all means do, but otherwise mention that that was 3-2 away at Sporting. Good to see Galassic score. Yes. Another important late goal. A big man. Did it in the World Cup. A big man's big man. Yes, 6 '7". And if it's former Wolves players that you're after, how about Benji? Carlos Forbes at Club Bruges. Yeah. In the last two games, one goal and five assists.

38:23Against Inter last week, he set up every single goal. And he is another one. Well, Inter kind of set up two goals. Well, true. But his pace is what gave them the heebie-jeebies. And a bit like in Bayern, both of them sort of startled me last week incredibly fast. And with Carlos Forbes, as a young Portuguese forward, he's already done his national service at Wolverhampton Wanderers. So he's now ready to come to another Premier League side next year. He was there for about 10 games last season. The Solis at Norwich approach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is a big Premier League move waiting to happen, I think.

38:56We've said this before as well, but Champions League nights at Club Bruges are just great. They're a bit like maybe sort of, I don't know, for older Deportivo games at the turn of the century, you tune in and be like, I just know it's going to be a good. And dunk. They now feature your friend and mine, Freddie Potts. Yes. Starting in the middle of the Club Bruges midfield. Is that right? Yeah, he is. In fact, he obviously is the son of Steve Potts, famous Steve Potts. got a little thing of famous footballing sons later 23-24 yeah he then went to then he went to Portsmouth they went back home for the warm embrace of West Ham and they were like do you have a fancy Bruges Bruges off a 10 mil and we took it so yeah but we've got another we can talk about this in a bit we've got another very exciting central midfielder that I think they were betting on is it Freddie Potts' son he hasn't yet been born but they've got there was another Danny Potts was the other Freddie Potts' son his most notable thing was getting knocked out cold at Old Trafford in a game.

39:50It's a shame. Went out to play at Luton. That's probably enough pots for now. It's quite enough. Sorry. We'll move on. Next up, Premier League.

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43:05You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson, now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy seeing glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Premier League, but also, go on, give us a quick update on how West Ham are doing. Benji? Fine. We're sort of, I think, second or third at the moment playing pretty well. I think we should be fine. Who's this player? Mohamedou Kante. Tom, you might be familiar with his work. he's a young French central midfielder who is very physical, he's tall he's got great technique, he can score a goal dare I say it, sort of whispers of Patrick Vieira around him and I'd recommend you towards I'd point you towards Rochane Thomas' articles in Athletic because he's been writing a lot about him and a great story a topical story about Mohamedou Kante when he was at Paris FC he was a very very diligent trainer and one day he gets to the train stop and there's a strike on because, you know, France and civil unrest, et cetera, et cetera.

44:09So to ensure that he's not late for training, Mohamedou Kante runs from one end of parish to the other, turns up gripping in sweat and does a full session. So that's the kind of character we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, he did. Anyway, he's one to watch. He's one to watch. So how early does he set out for his commute on a train if he's able to run the same distance? I don't know. I've got questions about that. You have to ask for Shane Thomas. then that's the real chew-up of hatred. Well, yeah. Duncan, are West Ham on? Said... Well, they aren't because they're no longer a Premier League team.

44:39They've restricted it to Premier League teams. But I mean, I'm sure West Ham fans will have opinions. All right. Premier League match day eight is coming up and it starts on Friday with Ipswich against Nottingham Forest. Saturday lunchtime, Villa take on Man City at three o 'clock. Two games, only two. There's Saturday, Coventry, Fulham and Arsenal against Everton And at 5.30 then, Chelsea Spurs. And that very much is a mainline stop, I imagine. Yeah. Okay. Sunday, no less than four games at 2 o 'clock, which is frankly unhelpful. Can I ask why did Sky move Hull against... Who are they even playing?

45:19They are playing Brentford. So there were three fixtures that were there because of Champions League. Liverpool, Brighton, Man United, Bournemouth and Palace, Newcastle, which is because of European fixtures. So why was Hull against Brentford moved to that slot? By Sky. It screams 3pm Saturday, but... Or was it maybe already in that slot, and then... Yes, but they knew that the other teams were in Europe. Yeah, I mean, it's a nonsense. Anyway, that's something to think about. But it's good for the Brentford fans, who now watch the game. And Hull fans. Well, I would hope Hull fans were going to the game, but the Brentford fans can tune in, which they wouldn't have been able to do if it had been in its traditional slot.

45:58Indeed so. At 4.30 then, on Sunday, matchday concludes with Sunderland leads. Sunderland, who are now the team in last place in the Premier League following Monday's victory by Spurs. Folleman Forrest in the bottom three with them. Up at the top, the entity now known as awaiting sentencing FC is still occupying first place with seven wins from seven. Arsenal lead the rest of the teams, then Brighton, Chelsea and Liverpool running out the top five. Two of those top five facing each other, of course, when Brighton travelled to Anfield. We call this a test when we were evaluating Brighton's chances of, you know, doing it.

46:46We call this a test for the Seagulls, but is it potentially more of a test for Andoniera in a all as Liverpool, given the form that Brighton are in? The highest scorers the Premier League has seen for a while. The joint best defence in the league. 15-0 the last four games. What? I mean, all the numbers, and you know, I respect the numbers. All the numbers point to the fact that Brighton may be legit. Too legit to quit. Although, although you'll surely know, Duncan, that only three sides in Premier League history have scored more goals in their first seven games of a season than Brighton, 23. And none of those three sides actually went on to win the league.

47:22That is true. defences win leagues etc right I think this but they kept four clean sheets in a row so yeah I mean I think this is quite a crucial game because I think do you remember Leicester in 15-16 obviously enjoyed that autumn everyone was like oh Leicester loads of fun and you know they can't carry on obviously it won't carry on but I think what was the game well for them it was slightly later I think the City game the Man City game the Mahrez goals yeah but if Brighton can continue this run at Liverpool then And there is a vulnerability, talking of vulnerabilities, about three hours ago, Virgil van Dijk, I wonder if the moment has come where maybe he...

48:03The football has left him. He gets dropped, yeah. Because he, I mean, he was responsible for a goal the other night. He was responsible for two goals coming off the bench against Lask last week. At a weekend, they moved Gravenbeer to right back, which means that Araujo can now play in the middle with Xhaka if he wants to. I do wonder if that's... I won't drop van Dijk, but I do agree he's not had a good month. It's wobbling. He's 25. It's going to happen. If the Unai Emery precedent is anything to go by, he'll have a blinder, the man of the match, this weekend. This is the thing that we say at least once a week, along with what is happening in Manchester United.

48:38Surely it's time that Virgil van Dijk got dropped, but he endures nevertheless. Brighton are in Thursday night action themselves. They're in the Czech Republic taking on Djablodnik in the Conference League. but that's a mighty game and that will be taking place Sunday at two o 'clock so tune in or go along to Anfield if you're in I imagine it's sold out but yeah try and get in if you can alright see the champions ok let's talk about Chelsea Spurs which is Saturday tea time Spurs have won just one of their last 36 league visits to Stamford Bridge the Blues have won 11 of their last 13 against Tottenham including all of the last six Tom and yet Is there some crazy thought running around your head that Spurs might could just?

49:26Is there? I don't think it's that difficult to make a case for Spurs causing Chelsea problems because they have been getting better. They played very well away in Manchester United and managed to rescue a point despite having Rodrigo Bentonkert sent off. Got the first win of the season on Monday, James Madison being back. Kulisevsky being back. Kulisevsky being back as well. So, you know, it does feel like things are coming together. Obviously, we know that Spurs have got this historically wretched record at Stamford Bridge. But Chelsea haven't been absolutely flying, albeit go into this off the back of that very handsome home win against Bournemouth than the win at Everton.

50:09That's what people say. Talking of home advantage. Ah, yes, Benji. Did you see... I've already troubled your phone with this this week, Jimbo. Did you see this week, there's a sub-stack called Balance of Play that has done data looking at home advantage since the turn of the century and has shown that in every single major league, home advantage is diminishing. Have you seen this? So it is gradually getting less and less important to be playing at home. And then the league actually, Jimbo, in which I sent it to you, it has diminished the most is Serie A. Yeah, it's fallen from about 68 % to 53%, the win percentage.

50:47Yeah, which is really meaningful. Famously, the only season in English top right history where there's more away wins than home wins was 2021. Well, so it actually excludes that from the data. But it's relevant because my point to you was that my immediate response was it's because the crowds don't provide that kind of support, which is very much the COVID thinking. But you know what? When I kind of looked into this a little bit, it turns out it's not just a football thing. It's all sports that's happening. And the NBA separately are having a real puzzle over why is it that home advantage, home field advantage has disappeared in the NBA?

51:24So I think it's a bit of a boring answer, which is the quality of sport is just getting higher and higher, which means atmospherics matter less. It shouldn't matter that you've got like, you know. High performance podcasts. Right. Everyone saw the Arsenal doc when Mikel Arteta played You'll Never Walk Alone over the loudspeakers on the training pitch. That's the level you need to get to when it comes to preparing your team for hostile atmospheres. Look at that graphic. Every single league. I wish you could see this at home. On YouTube, maybe the cameras can pick it up on YouTube, but these are very much graphs with coloured lines going down from left to right.

52:00Big time. But all of them, all of them, and as you say, Jimbo, it's kind of extraordinary that this is just a sport thing. It's a sport thing. I'm a man that watches a lot of League One football. Oh, yeah. The pitches are just supreme. Every single one. There's no money. Yeah, there you go. Everything's just getting better. It's the opposite of in-s***-ification, in-goodification of sport. Oh, well, we should celebrate that. Yeah, I guess so. Hooray. Actually, I disagree. No, I want the nonsense. Okay. Emi Martinez won't be featuring in Tube Map of Hatred's Chelsea Spurs. because of his fractured jaw, poor chap, which means we should get a first Premier League start from Mike Penders in the Chelsea Goal.

52:45Producer Charlie's been at home all week sick, twiddling his thumbs. Do you mean ill or just really cool? Both. Both. He writes in and says, you don't get many Premier League players called Mike. Mike Newell, says Producer Charlie, is probably the most famous. More, he observes, of a referee's name, Dean Riley Jones. Isn't that curious? That is a fair point. And not for the first time, Producer Charlie is spot on. He knows his stuff. Other Premier League mics. He's small, West Ham. He's like the Harry Kane of podcast production. On one hand, controlling the faders, but on the other hand, providing the content, providing the assists.

53:25Mike Marsh. Mike Marsh, yeah, famously retired, got the payout, was up all right, but could only play as high as the conference because he couldn't go back in the league. Is that right? For a few years, was so good in the conference because he was a top flight player. Mikey Moore at Spurs. Albeit he's the next gen. He's the age of footballer who was named after the Mike Newell generation. So maybe that's what we've got to wait for. No, you're not having that. Anyway, Astor Villa are playing Man City Saturday lunchtime. Three o 'clock Arsenal-Everson, which is often a very tight encounter. We mentioned that it took the extraordinary Max Dowman coast to coast, or thereabouts last season to resolve that in the Gunners' favour, Tom.

54:09It's not quite on Tottenham away at Chelsea levels, but Everton's record at Arsenal is similarly wretched. I think it's one win in their last 30 visits in the Premier League. And Moisey, famously, the big four, has won a few now, but still not good. Are the Emirates on the tube? What is on this? The Emirates is on Tumbo Hatred. How many stops are there? Well, six in its current gut, but who says it can't be expanded? Like the original team. What's the idea behind it? Is it just a list of London clubs in the Premier League? Well, no, it's because I think for people who, particularly people who don't live in the UK, the number of teams in London, I mean, I feel a bit like this with Buenos Aires.

54:51I kind of know there's a lot of teams. We're not really sure of how, does this team hate this one? Right. Obviously, Chelsea and Tottenham really dislike each other, but Tottenham probably dislike Arsenal slightly more. but then you know for some West Ham fans you know probably is what I mean Millwall obviously well it's Spurs but embarrassingly Spurs don't really care about us yeah so that's the thing you get these sort of asymmetric hatreds as well so and Millwall yeah yeah yeah I mean that's the traditional one that we get to dust it off every sort of 10 years or so the friendly derby they call that and you're in the same stand hugging and stuff that's the one yeah yeah yeah um so we're trying to represent this why don't you do a tube map of love Duncan because that's a fun thing that is the real tube map yeah because you can go out into London and find someone who can change your life there you go that's a beautiful thought what clubs love each other it's an interesting question lots of clubs have well it's a very Italian thing isn't it like I remember going well there's only clubs from different countries don't there like really like twinning no even within the same country oh yeah yeah yeah you would have for example famous Atlanta fans would join with the Lazio fans in assaulting the police out of a bronze of the heart James as we've talked about before I was at the famous 2002 into Lazio Inter.

56:02Oh, yeah. And before the game, the ultras were on the running track at the Olympic Code all hugging. Hugging. Really? Chelsea and Lazio ultras are famously... Chelsea Rangers as well. Well, there's some sectarian stuff like Hibs and Celtic and Rangers and Hearts. Anyway. Anyway. Love. Also taking place this weekend, oh, Benji, you take a keen interest in vulture-like. You like to hover above at-risk managers. Oh. I bet you'll be keeping a beady eye on Crystal Palace Newcastle this weekend, eh? Sakako Klaxon, yeah. You reckon? Well, yeah, I mean, they're both in trouble, I think. They're both birds as well, eagles and magpies.

56:40Good point. Srooping. I'll see what you've done there. On our old favourite metric expected points. Oh, yeah. Newcastle are 18th and Palace are 20th, so this really is a basement clash. Yikes. And, of course, in the week that Crystal Palace have been told off for their eagle and use of their eagle by Petr. The Geordie bird fundraising organization.

57:12Petr. Palace are in Turkey tonight. Do another bird. Another bird. Although a flightless one. That's true. to take on Besiktas in the Europa League how about that yeah also just quickly all this talk about being you know good in the air oh yeah Bobby Thomas at Coventry can I just can I be the first to say Bobby Thomas for England he's met more clearances than any other player in the league this season I think he's been their best player in every game 25 I just I'd like to see it I'd like you know don't you think Bobby Thomas okay sort of the what was it Connor Cody vibes because that sort of like he deserves it.

57:52Coventry-Fulham was quite a fun fixture as well because Fulham replaced Coventry when they went down and it's almost like there was an unbroken spell for so long of either Coventry or Fulham in the top flight. Mostly Fulham. Well, no, Coventry from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. 67 to 2001, Coventry are in the top flight. And producer Charlie has pulled this out again. It's only the second time they've ever met in the top flight of English football, Coventry and Fulham, which is just like incredible. but to Duncan's point shows the extent to which they've kind of been on either side of a promotional seesaw okay Coventry facing Fulham for only the second time ever well no actually only the third time ever because it's the second season they played home in league they've played cup games but anyway a rare opportunity to see Coventry Fulham yada yada yada except it's at 3 o 'clock on Saturday so go along there will be some empty seats at that stadium Sunderland Leeds is Sunday 4.30 Ipswich Forest is Friday at 8 o 'clock and Hull-Brenford is that extra Sunday game.

58:56Any of those pique your interest? Well I'm clearly going to be second screening Hull-Brenford because of the fact it's been put on at that time slot. Hull who haven't won a game since they won their opening two matches which not ideal but they did at least win their opening two matches. Although one was against Manchester United. Sunderland leads which is an eclectic choice for Sunday afternoon Sunderland leads file under Sky have to show every club a certain number of times in the key slots and here we go Sunderland who are in some trouble right now and are also in European action on Thursday evening they're at Lech Posnan I mean a bit of second season syndrome isn't it I think coupled with the challenge of having to compete across and injuries as well well also and it dropped me out.

59:44They overperformed their numbers a lot, which we pointed out, and some people said, well, no, this is not true. Now, they're underperforming. They actually should be high in the league. Numbers always win, right now? Numbers always win. Where do the numbers say they should be, Duncan? About 14th, I think. Okay. So I think they'll be fine. They're definitely not the 20th best team in the Premier League. Are Man United underperforming or overperforming their numbers? Slightly underperforming, but it's slightly skewed because they've had quite a few games where they've faced 10 men. So I'd say they're about right.

1:00:21Okay, very good. That anyway is what awaits this Premier League weekend straight after Sunderland against Leeds. We'll be doing, I say straight after, but in the aftermath of that game, we'll be doing our usual live Sunday roundup, live on YouTube that is. So do join us for that if you want to see us putting a podcast together or enjoy it afterwards if you fancy. Benji. Before we're off, can I just briefly make us all feel very old? You talked... You can try. You talked on a pod this week about the Samba brothers at City. Oh, yeah. And done a little bit of looking at children of players in the Premier League.

1:01:02So the Heskey brothers are also at City. You've got Justin Kluivert, Lewis Kumas, Liam DeLamp, Donnell Furlong, Federico Chiesa, Brennan Johnson, biggest nip-o baby of them all, Erling Haaland. Let me give you some names that are currently in a... Training off his dad's name a year. Still. In the academies of Premier League clubs. So at Arsenal, you've got Gabriel Arteta and Elijah Upson. Upson's a centre-back. At Brentford, you've got Bo Redknapp, who would you believe it is a cultured midfielder. At Brighton, you've got two Ferdinands, Rio's kids. At Chelsea, you've got Matis Abouye, Emmanuel's son.

1:01:42At Fulham, you've got a promising goalkeeper by the name of Damian Cech. No way! At Hull, good-looking defender called Zach Jagielka. At Liverpool, you've got K. Rol Figueroa. At United, there is Kai Rooney. There are two Fletcher brothers and, awkwardly, a lovely central midfielder by the name of JC Carrick. Nice! JC is in the initials? No, unfortunately not. Don't get many initials, do you, footballers these days, in the way you used to for the engineers and Blackburn Olympic? Yeah. Bring it back, I say. I mean, a couple of seasons ago, you had GC Jaskalainen's son facing Dennis Werkamp's son in a National League game.

1:02:25Wonderful. There you go. Incredible. Doesn't always work out. Well, Benji, thank you for that. No problem. And so much else today. Lovely to have you joining us again. Look forward to you returning. Many thanks, Tom, to you and Duncan as well, to producers Jake and Charlie, who's back. And thank you, listener, for being with us. As I say, we're around on Sunday night if you fancy some live fun and games from around about 7.15, 7.30. Otherwise, we'll catch up with you thereafter. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:03:00You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

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