Man United dominate City in the derby, plus the incredible AFCON finale

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30And United next to Arsenal, who dropped points but extended their lead this weekend. We'll hear about that, the Palace Palava, about Spurs getting worse in a West Ham reverse, and about the Morocco horror show in the AFCON final Sunday night in Rabat. It's all in this Totally Football Show.

0:53Totally Football Show for you on Sunday, the 18th of January. Hello to you if you're watching on YouTube or checking us out on Monday or thereafter in the podcast version of today's show featuring from New York, Luis Miguel Echeverry. Hey, Luis. Sorry about your surname. How are you, Jimbo? No, it's OK. Everybody does it. How are you, Jimbo? I'm very, very well. Lovely to see you. Luis, by the way, has passed up an opportunity to be at an AFCON final watch party with who, Luis? Oh, Mr Zoran Mamdani, our new mayor That's so cool That's so cool Yes, but it's way cooler to be with you, Jim Well, yeah I'm so delighted that you've joined us As has Daniel Story Who knows what opportunities he's passed up To be in his attic Gazing at us through his laptop All right, Daniel Yeah, hard to say But it probably wouldn't have topped, Louise If I'm brutally honest Okay, then And Colin Miller is here in the studio Old school Hi, James, how are you?

1:54I'm very well. Thank you, Colin. Oh, I should say, by the way, AFCON final going on, even as we speak, currently goalless between Morocco and Senegal. We're hoping to do a bit of an on the whistle report on that. Not going to be able to feature it in our YouTube coverage. But once we finish our live recording on YouTube, we're hoping to get that in for Monday morning's podcast version. So stick around to the end of the show and we should be hearing an on-the-whistle verdict on the AFCON final. Excellent. Now, Matchday 22 of the Premier League, only 14 goals scored. Only 14 goals. And in fact, here's a stat.

2:34Daniel, were you aware that since January 1st, the current top five in the Premier League have won fewer games than the bottom five in the Premier League? I can't imagine ever in Premier League history there's a weekend where the top five don't win and the bottom five don't lose. But yeah, I think it's two things. Firstly, it's teams at the top who are deeply flawed and teams at the bottom who seem to be starting to scrap a little bit. And in the case of Forrest Arsenal, which I went to, you've got an away team that thinks a point's a pretty good result because everybody else has lost or not won.

3:10And a team at the bottom who thinks, my God, we need to get some points now. So we actually need to start playing with some intensity. And I think pretty much every Premier League team now is capable of doing that. It's just how often they do it. Interesting. Arsenal with two straight draws. City with three draws and a defeat in their last four games. Liverpool with four straight draws. So this is something that's been going on, as I say, since January 1st. That's been the... The run of form has been very much favouring the teams at the bottom. Let's have a quick check on the results anyway this weekend.

3:39Man United, as you probably saw, ushered in the Michael Carrick era with a very thorough beating of Man City in the derby. 2-0, could have been much more. Arsenal then that afternoon had the chance to go nine points clear, only to themselves get held 0-0 at Nottingham Forest. Villa then, on Sunday afternoon, had the chance to take second place, but they went and lost at home to Everton. It's the first time in almost eight years that the top three have failed to score a single goal. Wow. And with Brent Verbeaten and Liverpool drawing with Burnley this weekend, and none of the top five actually won.

4:11Meanwhile, none of the bottom five lost. West Ham, they won 2-1 at Tottenham, increasing the pressure on Thomas Frank and moving themselves back to five points from Forreston safety. Burnley drew 1-1 at Liverpool. Liverpool thus begun, a pattern developing here, the first reigning champions in Premier League history to fail to win at home against all of the promoted clubs. Crikey. Wolves held Newcastle to a 1-1 draw on Sunday lunchtime, and Leeds beat Fulham 1-0. Now Chelsea with their new manager beat Brentford 2-0 on Saturday while Palace, who like Spurs might soon need a new manager, lost 2-1 at Sunderland and there's one game to go and that's Monday evening's Brighton-Bourmouth.

4:54We're going to begin, Luis, in your honour, with Sunday afternoons Aston Villa Everton. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. Mistake by Count Arez. McNeil! Spilt by Martinez and Barry! Scores! Everton take the lead! Tieno Barry! Well, momentary there. He looked a surprise. Is anybody else on the ground that he managed to find the back of the net? Of all the results I didn't see coming, Luis, this might be the most surprising of all. Villa had won 11 straight at home. So how did the Toffees take these three points? Jimbo, let's begin with giving some flowers to Everton because they were very strong.

5:40They were willing and they were doing things that we haven't seen, you know, definitely from a consistent perspective. You know, Merseyside, at least from the blue side, has not been exactly strong. One win in the last seven. So they needed something. And to come at Villa Park, as you said, that's been a fortress, you know, in recent times, especially this season. I really, like you, expected, wanted an Aston Villa victory. But you've got to commend Everton for the tremendous resilient, I guess. They wanted it more. If I want to be really black and white about it, they really wanted it. And Villa were everything that were usually not under Unai Emery.

6:20There was a lot of disconnected performances. Pau Torres, who's usually a reliable self at the back, he wasn't strong. I think that, you know, there was an over-reliance once again with Morgan Rodgers. I don't think there was enough creativity going forward. There's no doubt about it. Losing Amadou Inanna to injury, Bubaka Kamara to injury, John McGinger in the game, that's not going to help. But I make no excuses. Aston Villa were just not on it at all. And Everton took full advantage. And lastly, Daniel Mallon leaving, I think today showed exactly why we really weren't creating enough. who, by the way, obviously had to score in his debut for Roma as well.

7:00So not a good day at all. Indeed. What was your take on it all, Daniel? Yeah, I thought Everton were brilliant. I think there are times when David Moyes' teams, they had loads of injuries today. There was nothing really on the bench. There was kids starting. It was a makeshift defence. Nathan Patterson at right back hasn't played much in a long, long time. and he is really, really good at those nobody expects us to get anything, go out and show them why they're wrong performances. He always has been as a manager, I think. And they did those basics well. And when, I think as soon as, I mean, the game did flip on McGinn's injury, I think, because I think Villa were really poor for that next 10 minutes.

7:46They sort of didn't really know how to pass through midfield with McGinn not there. And Everton and Moyes, I think, sensed that there was a chance here to do something, to get ahead of steam. and for that, from McGinn's injury to half-time, Everton with a better team and then at half-time they sort of switch to counter-attacking football and looking for a mistake and they eventually got one because Torres slips. I think Emi Martin is his mistake is as bad as Paul Torres is because he kind of does neither fish nor foul in that he tries to catch the ball but then lets it slip out of his grasp when he goes down rather than either really holding onto the ball or just punching it wide.

8:24It's a tremendous finish from Tieno Barry. as well, which is good for him because he really struggled. He went 14 games, his first 14 in the Premier League without a goal, and he's got four and eight since. That's really nice for him. But, yeah, it was just, if you were going to choose an away performance from a Moyes' Everton side, pretty much in any of the 20-odd years that he has managed them, it would be this. He gave a lovely celebration as well, Barry, a kind of, what have I scored? An incredulous expression. Colin, Villa's still third, level on points for City, so it's not bad, but we've been hearing all season how they've been wildly over-performing their stats.

8:59Is this them a little bit regressing to reality? Maybe a little bit. I think those sort of stats, in fact, are they over-performing or is this actually something sustainable that goes beyond that? There's arguments about both ways. I don't necessarily think this was a particularly badass and villain performance. I don't think it varied too much from what was going on before it. I kind of just think the dynamics of this game really suited Everton. their away form is stronger than their home form only three teams have got more points on the road than Everton have this season they've only conceded 10 goals and 11 away matches they clearly like this sort of environment where they're happy to sit back they're happy for teams to come on to them and then sort of get into the spaces that are left behind I think David Moyes is very very good in those situations given his players belief that not just can they put in a resilient defensive performance but they can win as well and I was looking at the opta to find big chances for this game, Asenbilla didn't create any so that shows you how good a defensive job Everton did once again a little bit strange of how that contrasts with their home form obviously going into a new stadium and a new environment is challenging in itself but they have really struggled to sort of get any momentum at home but on the road they are putting in these consistent performances and I think to do it at Villa Park when so many teams who are challenging for the league have come and fallen by the wayside and on an afternoon where Aston Villa had they have won you kind of think could they really do this this year?

10:22Arsenal kind of faltering a bit, obviously Man City's results too, but yeah, maybe a little bit of a reality check, but I don't think this is anything that could be, from an Aston Villa point of view, is too much different from what we've seen before. I think on this occasion, they were just on the wrong side of a tight game that could have gone either way, but ultimately Everton were well drilled. But as you say, had Villa harboured realistic title ambitions, this would be a bit of a blow. Luis, is it just a little bit of a blip and you're still in a very good position? Yes, I think that's it.

10:53I think it's really important to understand about, you know, anybody that follows this club with detail and context and loves it or criticizes it, but regardless follows it well, knows that the journey has been long. It wasn't too long ago that this club was in the championship. You know, so the fact that there's a conversation to say that it's seven points away from top of the table, still in the top three situation, even in points with the likes of Manchester City, etc. That, to me, says progress. And I think it's also too important to remember that there are two specific objectives under Unai Emery.

11:28One of them is Champions League football every single season. Obviously, it happened in his second when he arrived, and hopefully this will happen this time around. And the other one is a piece of silverware, something that we haven't done in 30 years. So, you know, obviously, we have to wait and see what happens there. But to me, what's important is the journey as opposed to just trying to, you know, look at a specific example of a game like today. Today was bad. Everton were great. But the journey, the great journey continues for sure. OK, speaking of journeys, you've got one for Thursday night when in the Europa League, Villa are going to be aware of Furnabashi.

12:05Furnabashi featuring former Villa favourite sort of John Duran. That'll be exciting, eh? Yeah, the Colombian chaotic striker, John Hader Duran, absolutely. And Marco Asensio is also there as well, by the way. So, you know, it should be an interesting game. I mean, it's never easy to head off, you know, to Turkey and face these matches. And obviously, Duran, who, by the way, was not even going to play this game because he had a suspension, but it was overturned by UEFA recently, meaning that he's playing. So obviously, Jimbo, this means that he'll score a hat-trick. Clearly does. Very good. Now, earlier on Sunday, it was goalless between Wolves and Newcastle.

12:45This was the 17th goalless draw of this campaign, which means there have already been more nil-nils this season than in the whole of last season. Four, almost a quarter of those nil-nils were Newcastle games. Why is that down your story? It's because they don't create chances. They had their first shot on target. I know Wolves have been better recently, but they had the first shot on target against the worst team in the league over the course of this season in the 86th minute. This 4-3-3 that Eddie Howe loves, it works at home because they're able to kind of get ahead of steam and those three midfielders can kind of swarm teams who are going to just sit deep.

13:25But if a team comes at Newcastle and they play away from home, they just don't look like they've got any answer to pass through and create chances. I really think Eddie Howe needs to at some point try tweaking that formation to a 4-2-3-1 to try and get someone closer to the striker I don't know if it's playing Volta Marder behind Wisser which has always been talked about this season or trying one of the wingers centrally so Anthony Gordon centrally behind a striker but yeah they're just really really easy to defend against because the ball inevitably gets shuttled out wide they get closed in space a cross eventually comes into the box and Volta Marder had one chance from a cross that he should have done better with, but other than that, not really anything.

14:05Two away wins in XI now for Newcastle, and if they are going to make the Champions League again, then they're going to really have to improve that. And I think to do that now, they're going to have to change something because it's just not working. It's really easy to defend against. Change something? Do you mean tactically, not? Well, yeah, I don't think... I mean, Eddie Howe, there's a cumulative effect of this, right? I don't think that cumulative effect will ever come into play mid-season or mid-this season. I just don't see that as a viable option. I don't see it as a sensible option. Clever clubs or smart clubs don't have to change manager mid-season unless it gets to a crisis point.

14:43And I don't think Newcastle are going to get to that. But for all the goodwill he built up last season, deservedly with Champions League football and with winning a trophy, that deposit into the bank is slowly being eroded by the away form this season and the inability to do anything new to change it. So, yeah, he's going to have to watch himself If this continues to May and Newcastle finish ninth in the Premier League, then he's really going to have to watch himself. I hear you. Wolves only dreaming of finishing ninth. Even 19th would be an improvement, still in last place. But they are unbeaten in five games now.

15:15They're up to eight points, Colin. Only three off the derby mark. But they are 14 behind Forrest with 16 to play. Yeah, I mean, they've got back-to-back clean sheets at home in the league and they haven't had a clean sheet at all other than those two games. So obviously, Rob Edwards has come in and sorted them out from a defensive point of view. They are difficult to beat. They're competing in matches. I mean, all this is for a long-term vision. It's all looking to Nick's season. I think he'll be seeing what players want to stay at the club and who will they kind of be happy to cash in on and move on.

15:47They are going down. This is too late. But as you say, I do think they're a stronger team than Burnley are. I think there's the potential that they can overtake them. Six points behind them at the moment. I just think there's more quality in this Wolves team. and I think now that they have so did that defensive side of their play out. I think they could certainly get another 10, 15 points this season. I think that's probably a fine thing to guess. This game again, they probably, if anything, were the better team than Newcastle. Newcastle didn't turn up and as Daniel says, they're a bit of a Jekyll-Hyde team, aren't they?

16:17After 4-3 against Leeds, 3-3 against Bournemouth and then this is the sixth league game that didn't score. And if you are looking to get in those Champions League places, and that would be a good season, by the way, for Newcastle, I think that's just too many games. Right. They're not far off, though, are they? I'm quickly checking the table because they're down in ninth, but they're only three points off fifth. Anyway, they've got Champions League this week. On Wednesday, they'll be hosting PSV Eindhoven at St. James' Park. Very good. We'll have a Tony Football Show European edition out with you on Tuesday morning, looking ahead to the return of the Champions League and running up all the big news from around the continent.

16:55And just to flag up as well, there's another Totally Show that's currently out there, our latest extra, which dropped last Saturday morning, in which we're talking all about African icon George Ware. The real A. McCarthy called it goat-level podcasting. That's very sweet. Could the real A. McCarthy be wrong? Find out for yourself. Totally Extra. Next up, Manchester Derby.

17:27This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around.

17:55Blackwood, as you may remember it. Old Trafford, like you might remember it. Man United, like you might remember them. Wow, that was some new manager bounce then as Michael Carrick takes the wheel for United. Red Devils scoring two goals, having another three ruled out for offside. They hit the woodwork twice as well. This was their best game since when, Colin? Yeah, I mean, this is an extraordinary match. And actually, one of the things I would say is that I think what makes this so extraordinary was that it was very predictable in how it would play out. Everyone knew that Manchester United would have this humility to sit back, to soak up all of Manchester City's possession, to rob them in areas of the field and then break quick and vertically on them.

18:42And that's exactly what happened. The really interesting thing is how they executed this game plan so expertly and how Manchester City just didn't have any answer to it. time and time again City had the ball the passing lanes were cut off and I think I watched BBC's Match of Day coverage of this and they did it very well and looking at Patrick Dorgue and Amad Diallo on each wing and the support they gave to the full backs look Sean Diogodallo in terms of they pressurised the City defender and then when the passing lanes opened up for City they closed them off straight away the amount of sprints and pressures that they did in that game was immense the work rate that United had was incredible and what they did that performance embodied what Manchester United fans have wanted to see for a very, very long time for so many reasons.

19:27I mean, obviously the Mbouemo goal, which obviously wins the whole game up, that is so emblematic of what United fans want to see. And the reason United fans are so in love with that style of football is because that was a very Sir Alex Ferguson style goal, whereby you do have that ball back, you are sitting deep, but all of a sudden you've got four to five players sprinting on goal and you've so many options to play a pass and it's quick, it's exciting, it's counter-attacking, you're playing with wide players, you're playing with players who are in their natural positions, who look comfortable and full of confidence and this is what can happen.

19:59And that, I think, is such an extraordinary thing for Michael Carrick to have come in, what, three to four days before this match and to have executed this so perfectly and obviously he's got his coaching team behind him, Steve Holland and Jonathan Woodgate. What is very interesting, I think everybody gets caught up so much in who the manager is and should they be the long-term appointment or not. It's all about how they can delegate and the people they have around them, the coaching team. I think this group of coaches understands what Manchester United should be playing like for a start. And I think that is something that, for everything that's gone on this season, hasn't happened.

20:31I mean, you could look at Diogo Dalot, Luke Shaw, Bruno Fernandes, Ahmed, all playing out of position. Kobe Minou would not have been playing in this game at all. That was something I would have mentioned because you had Ahmad and Brembo coming back from the couple of nations. and weren't available to the last two guys in recent weeks. But Maino's been sat there the whole time. And of all the things that make Ruben Amirim look a little bit silly, Daniel, the performance that Kobe Maino put in is probably the biggest. Yeah, I mean, he was, I think he was the game's best player because he was the one who was doing, Colin talked about how the wingers dropped deep, and that was absolutely right.

21:10And they were excellent without the ball. but Mainu was the kind of multifunctional player in that midfield. He was the one that, you know, Casemiro sat more, Bruno obviously was going to get forward more and Mainu just did everything else really. And there's obviously a meritocracy, a kind of rush of meritocracy when a new manager comes in. They stress that. They say, look, I understand it's not been easy but I'll give you each a chance to prove yourself. So it's brilliant for Mainu, it has to be. It's brilliant for a lot of players because it's clear, both from what we saw with our eyes and from what we saw on Saturday lunchtime, that it had been bad for too long under Amarim and actually he was lucky.

21:48The question is what happens when they're not playing Manchester City because this was probably the perfect fixture for Carrick, right? There's no team talk needed. United have been good in this fixture quite a lot recently and Manchester City have on occasion been dreadful in this fixture. The question is what happens when they're asked to break down a defence again. Do they overcommit bodies in midfield? Do they get frustrated? Do they look a bit loose in defence because the full-backs are too high? It's not a one-game thing, but the one-game evidence we have was absolutely exceptional from start to finish.

22:20It could easily have been the kind of reverse of that 6-1, that famous 6-1, because they were just rampant during the second half. And City didn't look like they didn't want to be there. I mean for the majority of this game I would say that Donnarumma was actually the man of the match of this game because he was also keeping so many very good chances from the other side after everything that Daniel and Colin said which I totally agree I think the other component as well is there's something to be said about a manager and how he is as a person and what kind of energy he gives out to his players and what I mean by this is that Michael Carrick even in his press conference after the game gives this sort of very calm and sort of down-to-earth demeanor.

23:04And I think that what he did leading up to this game was say to every single member of this XI or the squad and say, this is your job for today. This is all I want you to do. You do this well and we will win. And I think that you saw that. Every single performance, every person knew their role. I would add an asterisk that Diogo Dalo, I think, was very lucky not to get sent off, but I digress. I think that there are many players like Mainu. Ahmadiyalu, who, to your point, just came back from AFCON, you know, he knew exactly what he needed to do. Colin mentioned about how, like, Manchester City didn't have any passing passages available.

23:45The moment the ball went out wide, there were two men on every player every single time. Man City were running out of answers every time they came forward because Man United, you know, had blocked almost everything, And I think that's down to Michael Carrick simplifying everything for Manchester United. I will also just finish by saying that many players from Manchester City's side were terrible. They really, I mean, I don't know if it was a psychological thing, but, you know, Nico O 'Reilly, who I judge highly, I don't think he had a good game. Phil Foden was hitting. Rodri, of course. It was just one of those games that it was just a perfect storm in every way.

24:22but the beauty of it is that it was led by a manager who, just like when he played, was so calm and consistent. Colin, give us the remarkable stat about Michael Carrick's four games in charge of Manchester United between the previous interim spell and this one. Yes, obviously Michael Carrick briefly did coach United before between Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Ralf Ragnik in 2021-22. He defeated Unai Emery at Villarreal. He drew against Thomas Tuchel, Chelsea, who were the champions of Europe at the time. and then he beat Miguel Ochoa at his Arsenal so he's obviously now beaten Pep Guardiola's Manchester City so yeah those are the sort of one-off games and Daniel mentioned that and just to Luis's point quickly it's saying about what Michael Carrick said to his players but I think what's equally important is how he presents himself externally so he's spoken to the media not very many times it's only two or three times now but he's so boring right and it's like as in you turn down the noise you don't have any sound bites you're like I'm not really going to answer these questions directly it's not really it's not relevant, I'm not going to say anything that generates noise, that generates pressure and just again from a Manchester United point of view, he's not coming out and saying sometimes I hate my players he's not coming out and being like some of these players are really entitled, he's not coming out and being like I think this might be the worst Manchester United team ever, you couldn't imagine him being in a dugout against Grimsby Town in a penalty shootout with his head in his hands, transmitting such a negative energy Many people will miss those days.

25:51Maybe they would. I just think it's very important when you're at such a big club to just be like a kind of a rock that absorbs pressure and be like, look, he doesn't really mind how he presents himself externally. That's not really important. It's about the messaging to the players. But the messaging to the players also comes from those press conferences of like, look, nothing's happened there. It's all about the game. Let's just focus on that. I think he's done that very, very well. He's obviously got another, what, 16 matches at the helm. I think with United's position not being in cup tournaments, they do have an excellent chance of getting a league finish, which they would be very, very happy with at the start of the season.

26:26Right. Into the Champions League looks eminently doable. Manchester City, who I think a lot of us were expecting to push on with the turn of the year, instead have done quite the opposite. The defeat to Man United that follows draws against Sunderland, Chelsea and Brighton and Hove Albion. They've stopped scoring a bubble, Daniel. Why is that? It just looks really muddled. It looks as if it's a team that has been given the impression that they're in transition, that this season is a making do and then seeing what happens next season or getting ourselves ready for next season. I think the transfer business in January does that to an extent as well.

27:06The changing of the defence, they have got huge injuries, but the changing of that defence or the changing of the guard in that defence, it looks probably like this will be John Stones' last season as a City regular. They're obviously bringing in Mark Gahey. There's a huge amount of change there. They changed, completely changed style of goalkeeper at the start of the season. Just looks like they've set themselves up for a transition season, which is really odd because a month ago, I would have still said, absolutely, they can win the league. And maybe they are still even favourites to win the league.

27:35If you'd have seen what Arsenal's points total would have been since mid-December to now, I would have thought City would be right in it. And yet, yeah, it's like they've almost taught themselves into this season not really mattering because it's all about 26-27. I would say I thought the defensive line on Saturday lunchtime was a disgrace. If you've got inexperienced or in the case of Rico Lewis, just not quite good enough defenders playing a defensive line that whenever Manchester United get the ball, they're basically one pass from a one-on-one situation. And they would have been more than three times if the runs or the passes had been played a fraction better.

28:15if Man Utd had been more exact, as you say, it would have been 5 or 6-0. And City couldn't have argued with that because there was 40 yards of space in behind. And Donnarumma isn't a goalkeeper who, like Edison, is going to be comfortable 40 yards out of his goals. It just didn't really make any sense to me at all. I just want to quickly go back to Daniel's point. I do kind of agree with Daniel on the point of the signings. But I think if you go into a January window and you make such an attempt to sign Antoine Semenu mid-season... He does brilliantly in his first two games. He's a very, very talented player Of course he is And he would walk I think probably walk into any team in the league An excellent tacker Obviously you're bringing in Mark Gehi You're making sure that you sign him You're spending a transfer fee And probably quite a lot of agent fees Slash signing on fee on top of it To make sure you get him ahead of everyone else Man City have signed 14 players Since January last year It's a huge turnover It's a massive investment And again I don't think Manchester City Are a bad team By any stretch of the imagination They're very, very good.

29:13But I think the point that we are holding them to the standards they had in the cycle before, when it really was an elite side that Guardiola built, but I think they're now in a position where they're having to spend a lot of money and take risks that kind of feels a little bit out of kilter with how well they've been externally, in terms of how well they've been run and always been prepared for the next lot of players to come through. I don't think they've really replaced Kevin De Bruyne. I think obviously the squad still looks short despite all these additions and I just don't think this is an elite team I don't think it's a team that when you compare it to maybe PSG or Bayern Munich they're just not at those levels they're not at Arsenal's levels either this just isn't a team who look like they're capable of winning big trophies at the minute and this obviously comes after last season when they were trophyless it could happen again it's obviously talked over Guardiola's future could that have been his final Manchester derby?

30:08it is very possible there is just a bit of a state of flux with where they're going to be next year I'm just not really sure where they're at We're going to see how they get on Tuesday they're already back in action up in the Arctic Circle when they take on Bodo Glimt in the Champions League they've then got Wolves in the Premier League next weekend as for Manchester United to Daniel's point let's see if they can repeat this again in a big fixture it's going to be a way to Arsenal next weekend, which kind of brings us on to Arsenal and a performance that you witnessed at the City ground. Nil-nil, you were there.

30:48Once again, Arsenal struggling. We saw Declan Rice's reaction post-game. F*** every f***ing time. Yeah, I don't think he was talking about Sean Dyche's football, but we haven't heard. Yeah, I mean, I'll start with the caveat that Arsenal are a point further clear than they were on Friday morning. and quite frankly that is all that matters. I know there's this kind of sort of psycho drama around Arsenal supporters because they haven't seen the team winning so long and they're in such a strong position that every game they don't win and you aren't going to win every game between now and May particularly not this season because the Premier League is not, you know, the Premier League is deeper and the top of the Premier League is not as good as it has been in recent years.

31:30So you don't need to win every game and they won't and therefore there will be this kind of wibble every time they do drop points. but they are right to want more urgency, I think, from that team. We've talked repeatedly about Victor Diokeres struggling to get involved in play, but the player who really disappointed me on Saturday tea time was Martin Odegaard because it just felt like what Sean Dyche wanted or what Forrest wanted was the game to be slowed down, for them not to be stretched, for them to kind of play with the game in front of them. And every time I saw Odegaard get the ball, it was kind of take a touch, look around, pass it to the side.

32:04it then gets shuttled out to one of the wingers and see what happens. And Arsenal should have won the game. Martinelli misses a brilliant chance in the first half. Matt Sells makes a wonder save in the second half, albeit from a Bakaio sack ahead, which is a kind of non-normal chance creation for Arsenal. But yeah, they just weren't urgent enough. Now, maybe that was because they were playing with a slightly do not lose mentality. Manchester City had got beaten comfortably. so every point is a step forward from there. But until they rubber stamp City dropping points and then them winning and kind of putting their foot down or putting their foot down on City's neck in the title race, fans are going to continue to think, why are we not quite pushing for it?

32:49Can we have a word on, Matt Sells, when I think about you, etc. And also whether Sean Dyche has now got a handle on this Forest team. The return of Ibrahim Sangari was massive. So Sangari's obviously been at AFCON in the 12 games. Sorry, I think he started nine games in the Sean Dyche tenure. Forest have only lost two of them and they've won five. So him being there, it basically means he can change shape and play three central midfielders, which is Nicolas Dominguez, who was brilliant. It was Elliot Anderson, who had his best game for a long time and was man of the match, maybe a part of themselves.

33:25And then Sangari. And that means that Morgan Gizwight can be higher up the pitch. so finally Forest didn't create a lot but they're playing the best team in the country but they looked more fluid than they have been the question, it's almost exactly what we just said about Manchester United Forest have been good in these big games they beat Spurs at home, they beat Liverpool away they've drawn with Arsenal at home they were unlucky to lose to City 2-1 at home this isn't the problem the problem is when they go to Everton and lose or home to Everton and lose they've got a lot of games coming up they've got two European games they've got Brentford away, Leeds away, Palace at home and Wolves are home, this is the run where they're going to pick up points, because otherwise West Ham, if they carry on picking up points, are going to make it difficult.

34:05But it was a step forward, and the city ground was rocking as well, which it hasn't been recently, quite frankly, so that was good. OK, West Ham picking up points, as you mentioned. Victorious this weekend away at the London Stadium. No, at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, of course. Let's hear how next.

34:29You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. This week's crisis club, it's a close run thing. Spurs getting beaten at home to West Ham would take it most weeks. But across town at Crystal Palace, things are unravelling at a pretty impressive pace after getting knocked out of the FA Cup by a sixth tier team, Macclesfield FC. they then sold Mark Gay had their manager announced he's going to be leaving at the end of the season they then lost at Sunderland and then said manager turned on the club's owners what's going on let's get a quick report now on the situation from Matt Woosnam of The Athletic on whether Glasner's days at Selhurst Park are now numbered yeah our understanding is that there are no plans to sack Oliver Glasner Palace want to work with him until the end of the season he said in his press conference conference before the game that he wanted to deliver the most successful season in Palace history, having done so previously.

35:33Palace obviously won the FA Cup under him and won the Community Shield this season as well. He delivered their highest ever points total last season. So he wants to eclipse those achievements. Palace will want him to guide them to victory in the UEFA Conference League. They're hoping to obviously go far and win that. They're in the last 32 a playoff against Mostar. So, yeah, it's just a situation where Palace have decided that they want to work it through with him and that there's an understanding that he is a very emotional person and that he is prone to these kinds of outbursts, but they're not planning to sack him.

36:19You can understand his frustrations over the player's soul, But then again, if you are a Crystal Palace manager, does that not kind of come with the territory? Is the club's position a little bit? What were you expecting? Yeah, I think absolutely. There has to be an understanding that the way that Palace operate is that they buy these players, they develop young players and then they sell them on for ideally a profit. And unfortunately, that is the nature of Palace and the way that they have to operate in order to compete is to make money that way. and they want to be a sustainable club. That has been the way that they've been run for the past 15 years under the tenure, the chairmanship of Steve Parrish.

36:59So, yeah, there certainly should be an understanding from him and I'm sure he would have been told what the plan was when he came in. You can understand his frustration, of course, because he'll want the best players available to him and he'll want as many players as he can. And there is an acceptance from the club, from Steve Parrish. He told me in an interview in December that they had made mistakes in the summer transfer window. And they've had an injury crisis or an unavailability crisis. Eddie Nketi is injured. Daichi Kamada is injured. But more importantly, Daniel Munoz, who's probably their most important player, he's been out for a month or so.

37:37And Ismail Assar has been away at the Africa Cup of Nations. So their entire right-hand side has been decimated. And Palace should really have had cover in that sort of right wing-back position. and you can understand his frustration, but equally, you know, Palace are a club that is a selling club and they have to develop players to sell on and he should understand that. I don't think his outbursts publicly are helpful for anyone. They're not helpful for the supporters, they're not helpful for the club and they're not helpful for him. And, you know, the fans, you know, for the first time really sort of turned on him at Sunderland at full time.

38:15There were jeers and boos at full time, which you've not heard before. Only a month ago at Shelbourne in the Conference League, they were singing to the tune of Last Christmas that they were giving Oliver Glasner their heart. And they celebrated him throughout the season. So, you know, it's a shame that it's kind of turned a bit nasty in that sense. but his emotional outbursts, as understandable as his frustration is, aren't helping anyone. Matt, thank you so much for that. Hope you have a smoother week and we'll catch up with you soon. Absolute pleasure. Thanks very much.

38:57They gave him their heart. We all know how that song goes though. Is he trying to get sacked? The Sunderland game didn't make a single substitution and then said, it's because I've got no players. and then he comes out and says that the team have been abandoned, the players have had their heart ripped out. Strong stuff. Two things. I want to just let everybody know, especially Palace fans, if you're not familiar with Glasner, who was a tremendous manager, but if you're not familiar with his history, he has done this a lot. At Wolfsburg, he took a mid-table team back to the Champions League, But then he fell out with the sporting director, George Madka, I believe, you know, because of unkept promises, etc.

39:44Then he went to Frankfurt, took them to 11th, 7th, two cup finals, a Europa League win in 2022. But once again, because he was disheartened with the, you know, the difference in ambitions between himself and Marcus Kroger, they fell out as well. And then he joins Crystal Palace. And then this happens. Now, I don't want to say that obviously this is all Glasner's fault because I feel for him. I listened and watched and saw what happened, of course, with losing Eze and then losing Marguerite as well, you know, a day before he has to play. Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. But, you know, to me, there's also something to be said about the fact that as upset as you are, you have to remember that there's also a team right behind you that knows that you are going to leave at the end of the summer because you've already said it.

40:36So psychologically, I just don't know what does that to you and the fan base, who obviously has seen such great glory after Glasner got them the FA Cup. So I'm not taking anything away from Oliver Glasner as a manager and a tactician. As a Villa fan, trust me, I can tell you, it's very annoying to play against him. So I'll be happy to see him leave. But regardless, there is a tradition here with Oliver Glasner being very disheartened with a club he's trying to bring up to a certain level. Okay, Daniel? I think it's pathetic from Glasner. I really do. You're under contract at a club who you know has a stadium that's about 25 ,000 and therefore is not going to be able to compete with financially elite clubs.

41:18That club hasn't changed since you joined. You might have improved it, but by improving it, you spent some money. And you are of the understanding that players like Michael Alisse had release clauses. And Aberecchieze was always going to leave if the right offer came in, especially if it was as high as it was from Arsenal. And then you effectively your club agrees not to sell the captain who won't sign a new contract and will leave a year later because you say, I want him to stay. So they do that for you. then two months later in October it sounds like you decided you don't want to leave and everybody knows that so yeah I think it's really poor on his part and I think it deserves to Sarri's legacy there a little bit it's kind of a new thing with managers now you know already this season we've had Nuno using a press conference and getting himself sacked we've had Maresca, we've had Amarim and now we've had Glastner doing it and these guys need to kind of grow up a little bit, you're employed by a club, you're under contract to do the best you can with what you're given.

42:21As Luis says, he comes from Germany. He's not used to running a club and having a fiefdom like old-school English managers used to. That doesn't exist anymore. You don't get to decide all the signings. I just think it's such bizarre behaviour from a guy who is clearly an excellent coach, but I hope it harms his chances of whichever job he gets next because if I was a club chairman, I'd be like, no thanks. because if he's just going to spout off every time something doesn't go his way, I'll probably move elsewhere. All right, Daniel Story FC wouldn't take him. Maybe others would. Colin, the word though, as Matt was just saying, that The Athletic certainly publishing this Sunday evening, is that Palace are going to make a go of it with him and they've had talks and they're going to try and work things out.

43:05Do you think that's going to be sustainable? Could, for example, Steve Parrish weigh in once he gets involved and say no? If a manager gets sacked, they get the payoff of their contract. Now, what would be interesting is could his comments potentially have breached whatever contractual agreement he has with them? Maybe that's what both sides are examining, and they're very, very careful with what they're saying in public at the minute. I just don't see how that can be sustained beyond this point. Okay. Chris Lopan is currently lying in 13th place. One spot and one point below them are Spurs, who we'll come on to in a second right after we say, Well done to Sandland, the Blackhats, the first newly promoted team since Ipswich Town in 92-93 to go on beating in their first 11 home games of a top flight season.

43:50Brian Broby with his fourth of the season. Lovely goal too. Daniel? Are we OK to give a live AFCON final update if it's absolute madness? Let's hear about the madness. So Senegal had a goal disallowed in stoppage time. and then finds a minor incident to give Morocco a penalty. And the Senegal players have left the field in protest at the decision, which is, I mean, is great AFCON nonsense, you have to say, for those of us who have been to these things before. Yeah, it's liable to get spicy. And yeah, it looks like it's got ultimate spicy in the last minute. Sorry, I have to just jump in quickly to say that both of those refereeing decisions are extremely, extremely harsh.

44:34Is that the diplomatic way of putting it? Senegal getting the last-minute winner, that being shocked off. Then Morocco, who are, of course, the hosts of this competition, getting a penalty a minute later in stoppage time. I mean, yeah, it is extraordinary, isn't it? All right, we'll have more on that. As it happens, having given a quick nod to Sunderland, or not even that much, we're going to move straight on to Spurs. I'm sure we'll have ample chance to come back to the Blackhats further on in this season. But Spurs, Tabasco says, Can you discuss how bad Frank has been without looking at Seppi's stats or saying he's a nice guy or did well at his former club?

45:10And just trust the fans watching every minute of this disaster. This disaster this weekend featured Spurs hosting West Ham. Spurs very much with their white coats and stethoscopes on as Dr Spurs. You'll recall that last weekend, Bournemouth, who were on an 11-game winless run, encountered Tottenham and picked up a victory in stoppage time. West Ham were on a 10-game winless run. What did they do? Encountered Tottenham and beat them in stoppage time. Yowzer. Who saw any of this? Who wants to talk about West Ham especially? Go on then, Luis. No, let's once again, just like we began this show with Everton being given flowers, I think West Ham did a performance that's been completely something we haven't really seen recently.

45:56Obviously, they wanted it more to be very simplistic. They were, you know, aggressive enough to sort of take over the weaknesses that Tottenham were showing them. I thought Somerville was absolutely tremendous. He was just everywhere, direct, willing to run forward, but also willing to track back using his pace, obviously, you know, his creativity and etc. So West Ham really were playing, obviously, out of desperation. And sometimes desperation can bring chaos and sometimes it can bring heroism. And that's exactly what happened. Obviously, we have to wait and see if this can continue, if this is consistent, if they can salvage it.

46:36But I think that they looked at this Tottenham side, who, by the way, I've been there as an away fan. And when things don't go your way, it is an absolute museum. It is quiet. There is just no support whatsoever. I'm not blaming the fans. I'm actually blaming the product that they're supporting. But in terms of West Ham, they did everything they could to get this win. And Callum Wilson, of all people, you know, coming on and doing it in stoppage time was just tremendous. So West Ham took advantage of a very frail, very creative-less Tottenham Hotspur. OK, two things to pick up from there. One, what is going on with Callum Wilson?

47:12Because I thought he'd already been released by the club, but it's actually going to be at the end of this month or something. And second, and this brings us back to Spurs, the fans were anything but silent with this defeat. and they were really singling out Thomas Frank for their boos and abuse at the final whistle. Anytime he was separated from the players, who they did instead applaud, I think, when they went over to salute the fans. Frank, though, was roundly booed on every opportunity. Daniel, do you know what's happening with Callum Wilson and his contract? Yeah, the reports were that he was negotiating a mutual termination of his contract.

47:45And I heard that, I think, Leicester, one of the clubs mentioned, is potentially interested in signing him. They would be stupid to let him leave. If Callum Wilson leaves West Ham, then supporters of Burnley, Leeds, Forest, Wolves will be happy about that because he isn't brilliant and his fitness certainly isn't reliable. But I would rather my team face Pablo than him because and probably than Castellanos, who actually was really good on Saturday. But Wilson is a dependable, like he can be there. He can come off the bench and score. He's started eight games this season. He's already scored five league goals.

48:21So, like, he's West Ham's top scorer. I think it would be a real mistake to let him go. But if you've signed two strikers for£50 million that the manager wants, then what are you going to do? What are you going to do? All right. What about Spurs, then? Is this a new nadir? Is there any way back? Does everybody hate everyone at Tottenham Hotspur now? Whenever Tottenham lost 1-0 at home to Chelsea, and that was the first of November, they were booed off. And that felt like it was so bad. like that performance was so bad they just didn't attack in that match right they were fourth in the league and everyone at the time was saying the numbers behind their wins were terrible it wasn't sustainable but the sort of context was you know inheriting a bit of a defensive mess bringing the stability but actually things have regressed so much since that point I think that this whole season for Tottenham is an extraordinary waste of time it's just a waste of everyone's time I don't know why they are persisting with the set-up and the arrangement they have at the moment.

49:22The relationship between the coach and the players is dreadful. The relationship between the owners and the fans is dreadful. I actually think when Daniel Levy left the club, he was like such a sort of lightning rod of criticism. And when he left Tottenham, I kind of think that the fan base in a way became a little bit disillusioned as to who to direct it towards. Because it kind of feels a bit unfair towards the coach who's just come in. they don't really know who's making all these decisions. There's a lot of instability off the pitch. But I think you also have to look at Tottenham's players.

49:53You just have to look at their players. I think a lot of them just think they're far better than what they are. I just think it's really, it's a dressing room full of players who've come from a variety of bigger clubs and who've had lucrative contracts handed out to them and who've been told, you know, we're at Tottenham, this is a big club, but there's not really an expectation to win trophies, right? I think they're coasting. I think they're just They're going along There's not really The expectation That they're going to win They kind of think Right well the coach Is going to take all the blame And the owners Are going to take all the blame And we can sort of We can sort of Just sort of Scatter through the season And we'll be fine I mean they finished 17th last year They're 14th this year I think that is That is their level I think that they're not A particularly talented team To begin with But I think the attitude Throughout the club Is now really really bad And I just think that Vacuum of leadership Has led to this situation Of bad signings of bad appointments of a club going nowhere.

50:47OK. Thomas Frank, after the game, saying, like a super tanker, we are turning in the right direction. There are a lot of good signs behind the scenes and also in some of the performances. Despite everything, we're close to something very good. Edward S in the comments below saying, did he mean Arsenal when he said that Spurs are close to something very good? Nice. By the way, without going too hot take here, because it would take West Ham and Forest to do something far better than they have this season. But Tottenham are not safe yet. Ten points. They play Burnley away in their next Premier League game.

51:22And after that, it's Manchester City, Manchester United, Newcastle and Arsenal. The four after it. So if they haven't sacked Frank by Burnley away and they lose that, which quite frankly they could, they are bang in trouble, I think. It is Champions League this week with a visit from Borussia Dortmund with a very depleted side indeed for Thomas Frank, should he still be in charge? You'd imagine so for that game. And then the trip to Burnley. Burnley, who like everybody down the bottom, has suddenly begun to get their act together. We'll hear about how and what they did at Anfield this weekend and the rest of the Champions League stuff before we get on to this AFCON madness.

52:01Next.

52:09This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, Part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. Liverpool won, Burnley won Saturday afternoon. Burnley equalising with their only shot on target in the game. Marcus Edwards there salvaging the point. It was Florian Wurz who'd put Liverpool ahead. He was the good news, I guess. His ongoing partnership with Eketike. Burnley, loads of good points for them. Picking up a point, is it enough? Possibly not. But it wasn't a 9-0 defeat like Scott Parker had the last time he turned up. at Anfield, coaching aside, beginning with B. Under slot in the last three or four months, they're picking up fewer points per game than under Roy Hodgson.

52:51Roy Hodgson, everybody. Crikey. Although in this game, they did have 32 shots. And if Dominic Schlobberslein had converted that penalty, we might be telling a different story. Yeah, it's indicative of a pattern is the problem. and that pattern is A, Liverpool being pretty wasteful this season and the attacking patterns of play not quite being coherent enough to create enough chances to score. They've been pretty poor in front of goal and the number of times this season that the opposition has scored with their first shot on target is ludicrous. I think it's something like six league games this season already and you get punished if you don't take your chances and you're not very good at defence, then you get punished.

53:36I think Slott is in big trouble now because listening to that crowd at Anfield on Saturday, I think they are starting to turn. We talked about Eddie Howe with Goodwill built up last season and on a slot built up a lot more Goodwill than anybody else. But just now is beginning to feel like he did really well with Jurgen Klopp's squad and is now seemingly incapable of rebuilding a team in a coherent way when challenged to do so. And, you know, this is a statement of the obvious, but Xabi Alonso losing his job last week doesn't help Arna that much because there's a very good reason to go and go early on Alonso.

54:14Luis? The only thing I'll say is that I think selling Luis Dia or not doing anything they can to keep him was such an incredible mistake because they're so boring, Liverpool. Luis Diaz added so much more to them. I think that was such a massive loss. Trent Alexander-Arnold, of course, he went his way. But to me, Lucho Diaz-Gimbo was just like such a mistake not to do everything they can to try and keep him. OK. Two other games that happened this weekend. Colin, I know that there's been another twist over in Rabat in the AFCON final where Brahim Diaz took the controversial penalty, but to my mind, effectively gave it to...

54:56just passed it straight to the keeper. Yeah, so there was a 15-minute, I think, delay on this penalty when Senegal players had walked off the pitch, were eventually persuaded to come back out. Brian Diaz goes for a, well, a Panenka. But do you think he actually did? It looked to me like he was just saying, all right, this wasn't fair. I'm going to give you the ball back and we'll play extra time. My initial thought is that's an extremely generous interpretation of what just happened. that is it is quite genuinely one of the most incredible things I've ever seen in a football match just you cannot take that penalty in that moment but he did and he's seemingly broken down in tears and the game's ended and goes into extra time well we'll get a full report a little bit later on or a lot later on possibly the way that game is unfolding Chelsea beat Brentford in Liam Rosseña's league debut this after their victory over Chon in the FA Cup.

55:57They beat Brentford and moved above their West London rivals thanks to, well, many things, goals from Pedro and a penalty from Parma but also a redemptive performance from goalkeeper Robert Sanchez. To be honest with you, Chelsea were lucky to get a victory here. I think Brentford really missed some clear chances. I mean, to your point, I think Sanchez definitely redeemed himself. He did some good saves but Chalda really should have put a few away here. At Brentford, we're picking out Chelsea throughout the game. It's clear that they're still trying to figure out what they want under Rosinia because Enzo Fernandes was very lost alongside Moises Caicedo.

56:36Usually you see them more in tangent. That wasn't the case here. Defensively, they were very open. And yes, Chelsea got a win. And I think it's very important for them to also have a clean sheet because that hasn't happened in a while. But Brentford really, I think Keith Andrews will lament the fact that if you don't put your chances away, it's going to be a problem. And they really should have. So it's good that Chelsea won. And it's good for Liam Rossini because I think you just need to just, you know, aggregate a couple of wins under your belt. But Brentford really, really should have punished Chelsea more here.

57:09OK, they're at home to Paphos featuring David Luiz in the Champions League on Wednesday, the other game from the Premier League weekend. So Leeds beat Fulham 1-0. lovely volley and stoppage time from Metcher to break Cossage's hearts Daniel Yeah just a word for Leeds we've talked quite a lot about Dominic Calvert-Lewin's redemption arc but their defensive numbers are getting better as well since they've changed that formation I think so you take out that kind of madcap 4-3 against Newcastle they've conceded one goal or fewer in each of the last seven league games. Fulham only had seven touches in Leeds' box in the 90 minutes, which is, since they came up, I think Fulham have only done that three times.

57:59That was against Arsenal and Manchester City. So, yeah, Leeds just look like a really solid mid-table team. The problem is that so does everybody else. But I think they're going to be, yeah, I think they'll be safe. I think Leeds could finish 12th or 13th, the way they're going. They just look like a very sensible team playing to their strengths, which everybody else seems to realise is what you're meant to do later than them. It's funny, though, because for a long while, Daniel Farker was the manager who wouldn't change from his dogmatic tactical insistence and was set to lose his job and the club stayed with him and he'd change things.

58:33And look at him now. All these other managers who are on the brink, because there's been quite a few that we've been talking about today. I just think it's a good point in the sense that whenever Leeds went up, there was a lot of talk that Daniel Farker was going to lose his job in the sense that they thought, oh, he's a great championship coach, but look what happened at Norwich. You know, if that plays out again, that's just not going to work for us. I kind of think maybe the backlash of that reporting made Leeds as a club change their mind. It wasn't going too well this season up until about, what, the end of November, whenever that formation change came in.

59:04They've now just lost 1-10. That was their last gasp defeat at Newcastle, which was just a crazy match, as Daniel alluded to. But yeah, I mean, they're a good team and Fork is a good coach. And I think that that sort of pragmatism is very beneficial in that situation. But I think just the way they set up and the fact that they've got, they're getting the best, they're optimising the players they have. That's what a good coach should do. And that's what he's doing. Excellent. All right. Next up on the Totally Football Show, we catch up on Sunday night's madness in Morocco.

59:39Sunday night saw Senegal win their second ever Africa Cup of Nations 1-0 over the host Morocco that though is only a fraction of the extraordinary story of the match in Rabat joining us now straight after the Senegalese players lifted the trophy is Meher Mazahi Hey, Meher, how are you? James, my brain feels like mush. I have no idea how I'm going to recall anything that just happened. I feel like I haven't slept for five days. Wow. Well, we could start almost from 90 minutes because it had been a really close match until that point. And then came the first of two controversial refereeing decisions.

1:00:24The first one, I think, was the Senegalese goal that was called back for a foul. It came from a corner kick. I believe it was Mamadou Saar, the 20-year-old defender from Strasbourg, on loan from Chelsea actually, who looked like he bowled Hakimi over, but it was very soft. Initially, I didn't think it was a foul. I haven't seen enough replays from enough angles. If it was a foul, it was very soft. And he runs through Hakimi, gets a header on target, hits the bar, and then the rebound is jumbled in by Senegal. I thought it was a clean goal. I haven't seen enough of the replays. I think most people did.

1:01:00And seeing the replays in the slow-mo version, you can see more of the foul. But crucially, the referee had blown the whistle before the ball had crossed the line. And as such, it never even went to VAR check. So, Senegal were extremely upset about that. And that unhappiness was compounded when not long afterwards, down the other end, dot, dot, dot. That's the correct word. It's compounded. because you have to understand what happened in the 90th minute as really a collection, an accumulation of refereeing errors that have been going on since the round of 16. Since the round of 16, everyone has been criticizing the referees in almost every single match.

1:01:44And so what ends up happening, there ends up being a narrative that Morocco are being favored by the referees. Whether they are or they aren't, it's not up for me to say. But what ends up happening is Morocco get a penalty with, I think, two minutes to play, in the 96th minute, and I think there were 98 minutes of extra time. And in my opinion, this one is much more clear-cut. This is a penalty. Brahim Diaz is tugged back by the West Ham left-back, Malik Diouf, and it is a penalty. But because of everything that preceded it, going all the way back to the round of 16, because it's perceived that there's an injustice that's being done, All chaos breaks out.

1:02:23Immediately, the Senegalese fans to my left, they're called the Douzi Amgende, they're a supporters group, they start jumping down from the stands and try to invade the pitch. And the Moroccan security forces did a hell of a job keeping them away because it was ferocious. I saw them fighting like they were protecting, I don't know what, their homes from burning down. They really wanted to get onto that pitch. At the same time, all of the Senegalese players are surrounding the referee. their coach Paptiel waves them off the pitch several times. He waves them off the pitch. The only player that wanted to remain on the pitch was Sadio Mane.

1:02:58He was the one that was complaining, arguing back and forth with his coach, speaking to the Moroccan players. But everybody else, and I think at a certain point, they did walk into the tunnel. And this is really going to be our job over the next 30 minutes to an hour is find out what happened in those 15 minutes. Did anybody from CAF come and speak to the Senegalese national team? Did they have some kind of change of heart? There are even theories that the Moroccan national team actually agreed to miss the penalty kick because, spoiler alert, when the San Glees national team does emerge from the tunnel, they get back onto the pitch, Brahim Diaz tries a panenka, and he goes straight into Edouard Mendy's arms.

1:03:49Looking at him before and after he took the kick, I must admit, my first reaction was he did that deliberately. It was a slight Penenka. It was the most half-hearted Penenka you'll ever see. And remarkably, instead of missing this, the chance to win his country, their first Africa Cup of Nations title in 50 years, he doesn't sink to his knees. He doesn't put his head in his hands. He looks almost impassive about it. So I can understand why that theory began to spread, but it would be an extraordinary thing to do. Exactly. And even the Senegalese players, if you go back and watch the reaction, that's what caused me to pose questions from the very beginning.

1:04:26The Senegalese players didn't react as if the title was on the line again. They acted like everything was normal. But this is where perhaps you guys might have more information than me, because I'm sitting, you know, meters and meters away. I can't see, for example, his facial reactions, but people tell me that it looked like he was distraught afterwards, that he was crying much throughout the entire extra time and into the trophy ceremony. So I don't know, but it just seems so bizarre. And to be completely honest, James, as the penalty was being taken, the Senegalese fans, the Duzian Gende, were still fighting.

1:05:01There were people being stretched right off. So I'm looking on one hand. I didn't know where to watch. I didn't know if I should look at the penalty being taken or look at the fans that are fighting, again, like very seriously with the police, very intensely. And I'm thinking to myself, they shouldn't even be taking this penalty at the moment. It's a security risk. And they take it. And the most extraordinary thing happens. Edward Mendy collects the ball and the Senegalese fans hop back into the stands within 15 seconds. And they start beating their drums again and they start dancing again. It was just absolutely surreal.

1:05:30Wow. So we go to extra time and almost immediately we finally get the breakthrough goal. It was Pap Geh. He went on a long, long bursting run, 40 to 50 metres. At one point, it looks like he doesn't know that there's a man on his back. Ball gets jumbled in between his legs. He manages to keep possession. And as he's shooting it, he's sliding. And the ball flies into the top corner. It's really the only way you could beat Yasin Buno on the night. He was majestic throughout the 120 minutes. And you could hear a pin drop. I've only ever experienced that once. It was in 2019 in the quarterfinals between Egypt versus South Africa, where Tembenkozi Lortz from South Africa scored a goal in a Cairo international stadium that I would describe as throbbing.

1:06:19That's what it felt like. And then just, again, complete and utter silence. The only people you could hear screaming were the South African journalists. Same thing here. The only people you could hear screaming were the Senegalese journalists. I couldn't even hear the fans, to be completely honest. It was, again, following the carnage that we saw at the 90th minute, it just felt like I was in a fever dream. I wasn't able to process anything properly, and I still haven't really processed it correctly until now. What was the atmosphere, what was the mood like in the stadium around you when Senegal scored that goal?

1:06:51Yeah, you know, James, I was very curious because prior to the match, I was speaking to a colleague to the right of me, and I told him, look, Morocco haven't trailed throughout the entire tournament, so I'm very curious to see what the reaction of this Rabat crowd will be like. This Rabat crowd that has been tame at times early on in this tournament, what happens if they go down a goal and they're trailing? Will it get very quiet? Will their heads drop? To be fair to them, they kept the spirits high. They kept singing. They kept making noise. They kept trying to push their team on. The only time I really saw them drop their heads and file and leave the stadium early was in around the 119th minute when the referee announced that there was going to be three minutes of additional time.

1:07:31Then I was close enough to a father and his son where the father told his son, who was maybe four or five years old, let's go and the son was like wait dad you know let's let's stick around for a few extra minutes and the father said more sternly no let's go now and that kind of hit me because I I could imagine myself how the son was feeling at the time you know just his father telling him like there's no more hope it was a really poignant moment actually right beside us in the press box heartbreak then for the tens of thousands of morocco fans there and around the country senegal were they worthy winners though?

1:08:06Yeah, overall, look, in the first half, they were, in my opinion, the better team. I thought Morocco were the better team in the second half. But overall, they were absolutely worthy winners. These were the best two sides in the competition. It was a very tight match, as you already mentioned. I thought Senegal were mature, they were brave, they were very patient with how they were breaking the Moroccan side down throughout the match. I thought they had the better goal-scoring opportunities. And if we consider the fact that they were probably denied a legitimate goal at 1-0, I think they were the worthy winners I don't think anybody, even Moroccan fans or journalists can say that Senegal were not worthy winners and for them this is two Afghans out of four this is three finals out of four and for Sadio Mane, two golden balls in his two Afghans that he won 53 goals with the Senegalese national team that's seventh most out of any African international with their national team I think we have to put a little bit more respect on his name now he's added a chapter to his legacy Extraordinary.

1:09:03Going forward then, just to finish off, is there going to be a very heated rivalry between these two nations? And what do you think Brahim Dias is going to be going through as he makes his way around Morocco in the next few days after what have been a starring role in their tournament? These countries are very, very close to one another, diplomatically, culturally. Islam spread to Senegal via the Tijani Sufi order, which had most of its schools in Morocco. So even to this day, most of Senegalese imams are actually trained in Morocco. There's a huge amount of tens of thousands of Senegalese students in Moroccan universities and vice versa.

1:09:41These countries are very, very close politically, diplomatically, culturally, and even in religion. So I think there will be a competitive rivalry, but I don't think it's ever going to get to the point where it's unhealthy. As for Brahim Diaz, again, that penenka that he missed, that would have been his sixth goal in this competition. In one Afcon, he would have tied the most goals scored by any Moroccan in total Afcons. That's Ahmed Firas, the late great Ahmed Firas, who has six. And he probably would have won an Afcon title for his team, the second in their history. It's going to be tough for him to come back from this mentally.

1:10:13But Waleed Urgraegi has a very close relationship with him, the Moroccan coach. And he said that when he convinced him to come play for Morocco, he told him that he would be playing for titles. He told him that he would be a star and that he would be a hero for his country. I think all of those things have materialised for him in this tournament. So with the right people surrounding him, with this coach, with this coaching staff, with these fans, I think he'll be able to get over it eventually and we have a World Cup to look forward to. That's so true. Meher, looking forward to speaking to you when that World Cup rolls around soon enough.

1:10:43But many, many thanks for all of your help during this AFCON. And I hope you have a nice, quiet return home from the stadium as your brain demushes and hopefully the streets are reasonably calm. Many, many thanks from us all here. Thank you, Jimbo. It's always a pleasure to cover the AFCON with you guys. Always look forward to coming on. And there's absolutely no chance that my brain will de-mush anytime soon. I'm just going to be going over and over and over everything that happened tonight. Probably until morning.

1:11:14Well, that brings us to the end of today's Totally Football Shows. Many thanks to Meher, to Colin, to Daniel, Luis there in New York, and to Jake and producer Charlie in the booth and you, listener, to hope you'll be with us maybe Tuesday morning for our Champions League preview and more in the European edition. But until whenever we next meet up, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:11:43You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.