Man United make it 4 defeats in a row for Liverpool as Ange exits Forest

0:00The Athletic FC

0:09Totally Football Show. Today, 39 days later and it's all over for Ange. Forest fired after no wins in eight, mate. On a slot next to go? Of course not. Still, Liverpool lose again as Amorim finally gets back-to-back Premier League wins. Meanwhile, Trossard shoots Gunners to the top of the table. It's another Buendia for Villa as Morgan Rodgers spurs. There's also Mateta's matchball and Mad Miss Maelstrom. Erling eviscerating Everton and a howitzer from halfway. All that and more to come on this Totally Football Show.

0:43Sunday the 19th of October if you're watching live on YouTube that is or at your leisure via more traditional podcasting platforms. What a weekend of Premier League football and what a panel we've assembled to discuss it in the studio. Colin Miller, hello. Hello Matt. And Tom Williams is back with us. Hey Dean Tom. Good evening Matt. Very well thanks. How are you? Yeah, I'm all right. Match of the day duty for you this weekend. 42 % of the goals in Saturday's games scored by French players. Do you make a big deal of that when French players score or is it Gallic shrugs all around? You will not be surprised to learn that they made a massive deal of it, but it was partly my fault because I made the mistake after the second French goal of the day went in of saying, a few too many French goals around today for my liking.

1:29little realising that there were another six French goal scorers waiting in the wings. So, yeah, luckily they didn't just keep reminding me about that every single time one of them went in. All of Palace's and all of Burnley's too. Also with us on the big screen, Daniel's story. Resting this weekend, Daniel, after your big weekend in the Silly Isles. Last time out. Yeah, I think the last time I was on the show, I said I was going over to play. Do a piece on the world's smallest football league, You guys recognise by the Guinness World of Records and FIFA. And come on for like five minutes, you know, lift up a few babies, shake a few hands, say well done to everyone.

2:07I played 90 minutes in the game because of a lack of numbers, which is not a good idea. So I'm just about recovered. What position do you play? Well, it's an interesting question. I won't give too many spoilers away, but I basically I used to play attacking midfielder up front back in the day. And I didn't dare say that because it sounded like he sounds like he's saying, listen, move aside. I want the number 10 shirt. So I sort of said midfield, which is even worse because it makes sound like you've never played football before. And they took one look at me and played me right back for 90 minutes.

2:37So good. All right. It sounds about right. OK, I'm afraid we're going to have to get back to the mundanity of the Premier League. We'll start with Sunday's shock at Anfield. This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

3:07Liverpool 1, Manchester United 2, blimey. A fourth defeat in a row for the champs. Turned jumps, back-to-back Premier League wins for the first time in ever for Rubens Reds. United just a couple of points behind Liverpool now, who are in turn down in fourth place, four points off Arsenal's pace. I mean, I would say who saw this coming, Colin, but Duncan Alexander did. United had to weather some pressure, didn't they? But this didn't feel like a kind of smash and grabby kind of win. No, I think this is a really, this feels like a big day, certainly for Manchester United. They have not won at Anfield for nine years.

3:43And I wouldn't go as far as to say that they were the better team in this match, but I think it's fair to say that they did deserve the win and they deserved the win based on the fact that they started the game on the front foot. They started the game with a positive mindset and a real belief in what they were doing with a very clear game plan whereas I think Liverpool, especially in that first half, it felt to me like they were very shaky, certainly defensively. They were not the Liverpool that won the league last season and I mean by that, obviously they have new players within that system but it does feel like there's been a slight mindset change in terms of they've tried to maybe evolve a little bit.

4:19Obviously, they had a big player turnover in the summer and that hasn't quite come to fruition just yet. But I think for Manchester United, probably the best thing is that I think a lot of their summer signings made an impact in this game. Obviously, Brian Boemo got the opening goal. Matthias Cunha up front alongside him. He looked very vibrant. He found a lot of space. His movement caused a lot of problems. And obviously, Lemons in goal as well, who had a really, I thought he had a very assured performance. I know it's only his second match and he kept the clean sheet against Sunderland as well.

4:46But I think there's a sense that the players that Manchester United have signed are maybe there's less noise around those players than the players that preceded them. And if there's less noise, then maybe it's just slightly more conducive to having a team who can focus just a little bit more in bringing out these types of performances. The one caveat, of course, to all this is that Manchester United almost won at Anfield last year. It was 2-2 and Harry Maguire had that miss in the fifth minute of out of time, the last kick of the game. They obviously won at Manchester City last season as well.

5:16They knocked Arsenal out of the FA Cup away from home. And none of those results provided the springboard to push on. I think there's maybe more signs in the underlying data and stats behind all this. But I think there does need to be just a sense of, to calm things down a little bit, not get too far ahead as they obviously enjoy the result but they need to use this as a springboard and I said a couple of podcasts ago that they don't have European football this season they don't have a League Cup this season so each result is really really important because they're not going to have like a week to reflect on all this so for them these league games are huge and yeah so I was very impressed by their overall performance just very quickly on a Liverpool point of view there are obviously issues there albeit they could have scored quite a few goals themselves they have a lot of talent in that team Yeah I think United in recent times predicting the extent to which they may or may not be back has become one of the biggest fool's errands in the game because every now and again they produce a result like this and this has been a theme of the entire post-Ferguson era they'll be down in the doldrums having a desperate season and then they'll pull a result out of the bag and you think oh maybe this is going to be a foundation and then the next week they go and get stuffed at Brentford or whoever or they lose at home calamitously.

6:28But I think there are, and again, I feel like you're sticking your neck out predicting anything positive about United. But you look at the last four league games, home win over Chelsea, which was a genuinely really impressive performance, you know, from first to last. Then they lost at Brentford because that's what they always do. Relatively straightforward win at home to a very decent Sunderland team. And then this very big win away to Liverpool with everything that that means in terms of the rivalry between the clubs, the amount of time they've been waiting to win there. And I was really struck by the scenes after the final whistle, the players celebrating together, celebrating in front of their fans.

7:11Of course, you're going to make a big point of celebrating something like that. But it did feel potentially foundational. And I think just to echo what Colin was saying, the fact that so many of the new players were key is, I think, again, potentially really important. Because, you know, what has happened an awful lot in recent years is that those new players have come in and very quickly been kind of found out and been shown to be lacking. And yet, you know, here we are getting on towards the end of October. And there's a sense actually that these players are kind of bedding in as you would hope them to.

7:45So, I mean, cue run of three consecutive defeats and Amarin being sacked before the next international break. But yeah, definite signs of hope, I think, for United. We'll do, Daniel, the Liverpool post-mortem shortly, but we ought to give United a bit more praise. All right, there's some caveats, aren't there? Gakpo hit the post three times on another day. I guess the opening goal doesn't happen because play gets pulled back for the McAllister head injury. But does it feel like there's something about these type of games, i.e. a way to fellow big six sides that maybe suits Ruben Amorim and or Manchester United a little bit better?

8:22He's what, unbeaten at Anfield, won at the Etihad, knocked Arsenal out at the FA Cup at the Emirates? Or is that a bit of a reach? No, I don't think so. Everybody seems to concentrate more in those big games, which, again, as with everything with the United, you sort of flip side that into a negative for the other games. But I think the formation worked here because they didn't try and over-rely on it. It wasn't all about wing-backs having to get really far forward and overlap and then maybe being caught up with the pitch. It was relatively sensible. I thought Mount was really good positionally to kind of drop into space and get the ball.

8:59I thought Cooney was probably the game's best player, particularly in the second half, the way he protected the ball before and after Manchester United's second goal. He just had an ability to retain the ball, which has not happened in previous Manchester United teams. I've seen them get a little bit ragged. There was a couple of times where one was Sesco and another was Lemons, where they just launched the ball at the field and said, just get rid of it. And you could see the midfielders, the attacking midfielders saying, we need to be better than that. We need to back ourselves to keep the ball and play our way out and give the opposition team something to think about.

9:31And I think they did that pretty much throughout the game really well. Neville called it spot on on commentary, to be fair, because he said, like, even if this goes one all, Manchester United can win the game because Liverpool are leaving them so much space. It's about courage. It's about not kind of just sitting on the edge of your own box. And the fact that they didn't do that suggests that there is still some confidence there, whether that's in the manager or in the style of play or just in each other. But it's really impressive, I thought. I mean, Liverpool were really poor. and as both Colin and Tom said, they created a lot of chances.

10:06But I thought United were as good as I've seen them under pressure. They didn't kind of fold like wet cardboard as they have done recently, particularly in that Brentford game. Yeah, so Gakpo just about hooks in an equaliser and then Maguire wins it, heading in after an unbelievably good volleyed cross from Bruno Fernandes. First win in 10 seasons then for United at Anfield since 2016. Wayne Rooney's goal for Louis van Gaal's side. But they got the victory on Sunday. What about Liverpool then, Tom? What's going on there? Four defeats in a row. First time they've lost a Premier League game at Anfield in what?

10:42More than a year. Only one defeat there last season. It's more than the blip, isn't it? Four games. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, four straight defeats in all competitions and to have three league defeats against their name already is really concerning if you're a Liverpool fan. and it seems to be a lot of the same issues just recurring over and over again. I was saying to Colin while we were watching the game, we watched Liverpool during the Community Shield and it really stood out how poorly protected the back four was, how much space there was in the middle of the pitch and you kind of thought, like what the heck's going on here?

11:17Good job this is only a glorified pre-season friendly, they've still got time to sort things out and yet the same thing keeps happening. How many times do you see attacking players just running through the heart of the Liverpool team and rather than the centre-backs coming out and engaging with them, Virgil van Dijk just backing off endlessly. And I think, you know, van Dijk in particular was very poor today. I mean, the Sky commentators made a point of singling out Canate for praise because he was having to kind of fill in for van Dijk quite a lot. But, you know, the first goal, he goes in for the challenge initially in midfield.

11:49He injures McAllister, his own teammate. He's then out of position. And as he's getting back into position, he kind of lazily throws out his hand towards Canarte. He says, I think there's someone running in behind my shoulder. Can you just have a check? And the next thing, Bermos running through and putting United ahead. And it feels like a lot of the kind of defensive fundamentals that have always been the absolute heart of his game just aren't really there anymore. And another thing that struck me looking at the Liverpool starting XI today was, I think some of the narrative around the problems they've been having this season is that, OK, well, they bought an awful lot of new players and those new players and you're finding their feet and they've lost key players as well.

12:27But the spine of the team remains largely unchanged. OK, Alisson was absent today, but, you know, having a different goalkeeper does not have a material impact on the way that your team defends the middle of the pitch. It's the same two centre backs. It's the same three central midfielders and, OK, a different centre forward. And yet this same issue of vulnerability in front of the back four. And it's a real head scratcher that the players who were so exceptional throughout last season are now being found wanting. And on top of that, you've got, you know, all of these new players struggling with one exception, really, of Hugo Iketike, who finds himself on the bench now because Izak has arrived, but who was excellent when he came on and really gave Liverpool a bit of a spark and another anonymous Mo Salah performance.

13:13So there's all sorts of different things to worry about. One of the things as well is that we've talked so much about Manchester United's formation and the wing-backs and how feasible is that and how much that works with the players they have. Actually, when you look at this Liverpool team, a lot of these players, certainly that they came in over the summer, look at Jeremy Frimpong, look at Milos Kerkis, players who maybe struggle a little bit more to cover those attacking runs and to cover that space in behind them that then exposes the centre-backs. Not only that, but Florian Verts, this sort of marquee summer signing, starting before breaking the British transfer record at the time.

13:45He's obviously a playmaker, but didn't really seem to have a natural role in the way that Liverpool played, certainly not last season. So they tried to sort of switch the formation to accommodate him. And then obviously, once you don't hit the ground running, it's like, well, he's sort of in and out of the team. And it kind of feels to me like Liverpool are trying to find formation based on the players that they've signed rather than signing players the other way around, which is really what you would expect a club of that stature, who probably don't very well in the transfer market over the past number of years to have done.

14:11and even I'm obviously watching Norton Anand quite a lot and Conor Bradley is absolutely amazing in that wing-back role at getting forward but he's not the sort of guy who can cover that space behind him he is when there's three centre-backs he's much more comfortable at doing that but it kind of feels like a lot of those players in this Liverpool starting XI aren't necessarily as comfortable as they could be and that is something that we maybe haven't spoken about now it does take defeats for these conversations to happen and maybe this is going to be good in the long run But Arne Slott has not had these questions asked of him at Liverpool.

14:41He hasn't really been the guy that has had to fix anything. He took something very good and improved it and got the best out of those best players last season, obviously Mo Salah. But this year he's got a lot of problems to solve. There aren't any signs yet that he can do that. And that's obviously going to be the big question over the weeks to come. What do you think, Daniel? Is he going to fix it? Eintracht Frankfurt up next in the week in the Champions League, then they go to Brentford. Are you writing them off as title contenders now? I mean, if they keep playing as they are, then yes. What I was really surprised about is how after the Chelsea game where Slott's answer was, right, we need to throw everything at this.

15:18And then they scored an equaliser and he was like, right, we need to win now. It was almost like he was feeling the pressure of a draw is not good enough. We need to win this game. And obviously they conceded late. Basically a supercharged version of that here where he ends, even before the first goal, their first goal, He has four attackers on the pitch. He's sort of playing 4-2-4 with Virts and Curtis Jones as a midfield two. Felt kind of playground football in the last 20 minutes where it was just like, you have a go, we have a go, see what happens. That's not really how champions normally behave or operate.

15:53They normally look to control the controllables, keep what they're good at, and change, you know, try and improve the little things that maybe didn't work. I mean, that represents a complete ripping up of the system of last season to go, right, we're just going to go all out attack for 20 minutes and back ourselves to create enough chances. And they created lots of chances, but they lost the game again. I don't see how that's, that to me doesn't, that to me suggests that he's looking for an answer. And he's kind of, his stock answer at the moment is get all my new attackers on and let's see what happens.

16:25We talked about United not having European football and kind of having a week to dwell on the bad results. the issue of having European football and midweek football on a constant loop is you don't have a lot of time on the training ground to completely reinvent things. So you end up maybe reaching for those stock answers a little bit. And if it doesn't immediately click soon, then they'll play their way out of the title race. They really will. I know it's not necessarily going to be a, unless Arsenal go on a real run or Man City go on a real run, it might not take 90 points this season or 95 points, whatever.

16:57But Liverpool looked way off last season where they won the league easily but it was a low points total required bad news for Arna Slott then good news for Ruben Amorim good news for that attention-seeking chap who won't cut his hair into United win five games in a row not sure because that's kind of his gimmick isn't it he looks like he looks like the goalkeeper doesn't he he looks well maybe he he looks Lemons looks like he did sort of a month and a half into that experiment what a twist that would be he finally cuts all his hair off and realise it's been Senna Lamans all along. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

17:32Also on Sunday, Aston Villa's resurgence continued to gather pace. They became the latest team to take advantage of Tottenham's insistence on rolling out the red carpet for house guests. Two on the score here. Spurs were 1-0 up through Bentancourt. Brilliant. Morgan Rodgers goal and then Buendia later on after another fabulous assist. Matty Cash involved in that. Giving Villa the win. Here's Jay Cole who's been in touch to say Spurs have only beaten Burnley at home. They've drawn against Wolves and lost against Bournemouth and now Villa. What is the reason for their poor form at home? This is not a new issue, right, Daniel?

18:06This was a problem for them last season and Thomas Frank yet to solve it. Absolutely. I was really disappointed today. So they played Rodrigo Bentancur and Jaapolini as a midfield two. And that makes some sense because it gives them ballast in midfield. It also was coincidentally the combination for the opening goal. but what tends to happen when that happens with Kudus out wide is that they fall into this trap of sort of passing it across midfield and then out wide and then back into midfield again and out wide and they signed Xavi Simons I thought to be this kind of creative number 10 and he was a sort of you know he was a lighthouse around which all the ships were sailing in the game he had 36 touches in 79 minutes which is nowhere near enough for an attacking midfielder in a home game when they want to get on the ball and had lots of the ball.

18:52He didn't touch the ball in Villa's penalty area. I think he created one chance, which is when he should have shot and laid it across to Palina to have a shot from outside the box. They've got to find a way of, if he is going to play there, there's no point just carrying him in the team and kind of hoping the ball lands at his feet. They have to work it through him rather than just down the side. They looked, other than when Villa were passing out from the back, they looked really easy to defend, quite frankly. It just wasn't great. And as you say, that's a theme, only beating Burnley at home, needing comebacks against Brighton and Wolves and Bodo.

19:27If they'd have won today because the Premier League is mad at the moment, they'd have gone second before and would have stayed second because Liverpool lost. So it's clearly a solvable issue. But yeah, they just look quite blunt at home, given that they've got the sheer range. I know they're not all fit, but given they've got Tell, Odaber, Johnson, Solanke, Kelo Mwani, I'm forgetting someone there. They've got so many attackers and yet they're not really servicing them in the way you'd want. Richarlison is the one I forgot. They beat Villa 4-1 at home just under a year ago. Since then, they've won three of 18 Premier League home matches, Burnley, Southampton and Man United.

20:07Favourite goal in this one, Tom? I must say Morgan Rodgers was almost nice wasn't it I think the build up to the Buendia I mean the Buendia goal was a lovely finish but the fact that it starts with Matty Cash pinging a kind of outside of the foot volleyed pass wide to the other Villa full back Luca Dean who's out on the right wing who brings it down leaping into the air at the end of his foot and then flicks it behind him to Buendia I think it probably just elevates But yeah, two lovely goals. Funny, isn't it, Colin, when you get managers, you can't seem to get the better of another. Thomas Frank hasn't beaten Emery in six encounters in the Premier League.

20:47And Emery deserves some props, right? Because people were kind of writing him off a couple of weeks ago. Ooh, it's his third season. It always goes wrong in the third season. They've won five on the spin. It would suggest that he's still got some mileage. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think the thing with Ayssen Villa is that, again, the kind of off-field situation was maybe a bit of uncertainty around the players that were sort of coming into the club that were leaving the club. and what were the motivations behind the deals that were being done. I don't think that has really helped them at all. And again, a lot of the spine of this team are players who've been at the club for several years now.

21:19Morgan Rodgers' goal, I think, was absolutely fantastic in this game, by the way. But I just think their response of going behind in, what, the fifth minute of this match, and you kind of think, you know, your heads might go down, but they just kept playing the same way. And I wouldn't go as far as to say that they controlled this game, but I think they always looked like the side that were going to win it, just based on the balance of play, based on the fact that they were a little more front-footed, a little bit more positive. And they're just such a well-coached, well-drilled team that I think they've maybe regressed slightly in terms of the quality they have on the pitch and the form their best players are in.

21:53But I still think in terms of that coaching unit and that structure, they still have that. From a Tottenham point of view, though, again, their results this season have been okay. But any time I've watched them play, I'm just very underwhelmed by the overall output. just in terms of the, okay, we know Thomas Frank's success at Brentford was absolutely fantastic. A lot of that was based on the strength of set pieces, which I think this Tottenham team are. But in open play, it all feels a bit, a bit like things just haven't clicked yet. A little bit like he doesn't really know which, which players to be choosing, certainly in attacking positions and things look a bit stale and stodgy.

22:26And I think, I haven't had Ange Bostokoglu as your coach for two years. It is quite a, it is quite a change, not just for Tottenham fans, but for a lot of those Tottenham players as well to revert to this style of play. But I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be getting worried at all as a Tottenham fan, but you do, obviously, with so many games coming up, you do want to have a little bit more verve in that team. And yeah, there maybe needs to be a little bit of a change of approach, just for Thomas Frank himself maybe to recognise that exactly what the plan would have been at Brentford might not be quite the same at a club like Tottenham.

22:56Well, he's got Champions League action coming up in the week. Spurs going to Monaco on Wednesday. Villa, meanwhile, in the Europa League on Thursday. Right, that was Sunday's action. next, let's all laugh at Forrest. Except me and Daniel.

23:16This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Rhys James turns it in and seals the deal for Chelsea. And Cass Ange Postacoglu in an even more uncomfortable spotlight. And now the exodus begins. The strange sounds of the city ground there as Ange Postacoglu, last seen sloping out of the car park with his backpack slung forlornly across his shoulder, muttering something about Spurs, presumably was not wished the best in his future endeavours by Evangelos Maranakis.

23:57Sent packing just 39 days after being appointed head coach. Arraigned so brief, even Liz Truss winced. Daniel that was a nice little football club we had a few months ago wasn't it now when my head hits the pillow and I close my eyes the prospect of sleep is remote because all I can hear is you saying there is no floor yeah and that's right right because whatever the issues were over the summer and I think that they were happening before supporters knew about them I think that's pretty clear it felt that however bad it went under Nuno Forest had a floor and that floor was probably 14th or 15th.

24:34We were a club who, for probably half a decade, has not had any quiet time ever since Steve Cooper was appointed when we were bottom of the championship with no points from six games or whatever it was. And it finally felt that maybe this was a season in which, if the club had said, you know, we understand that Europe's going to take some toll on its players and we're trying to change things, so we might well finish 13th. We're not going to spend all our money on wingers because we know we might need to keep some back for defensive stability in January, yada, yada, yada, we'd have all gone, yeah, probably that's about right.

25:07Actually, the inevitable has happened and that Forrest has caught up with itself and this kind of Ouroboros club where it eats itself for no particularly good reason other than grand ambition and we need to go higher and higher. And what has happened is what everybody said might happen. It could have worked and it didn't work. I mean, the Antipas de Coglu appointment was bizarre anyway. It was doubly bizarre because he was coming in in mid-season and triply bizarre because he was replacing a really popular manager. And it seemed that even at the time of appointment, the fans weren't particularly enamoured with it.

25:42He showed us the worst hits of the Spurs era with some good attacking football in there as well. Some good ambition for 20 minute spells. The first half in Seville against Betis was the obvious example of that, as was probably, ironically, the first half against Chelsea on Saturday. But either side of that, they've been terrible. They can see goals in clusters. They look like a team that hasn't practiced set-piece defending ever, and yet we're really good at that under Nuno. The full-backs over-commit and get caught. They do a lot of passing on the edge of the box and then just end up shooting from there.

26:15They miss chances. It's a kind of greatest hits of how not to establish yourself at a new club. and the only thing they've done well, and I know they'll get mocked for sacking a manager after 39 days, but the only thing they've done well is put an end to this as quickly as possible because I don't think it was going to get any better and it could have got even more toxic than I've seen it in the last few weeks. The massive asterisk to that is obviously who comes next because I think it's fair to say they'd really like to get Marco Silva out of Fulham, but doing that at the end of the season when he's out of contract would be easier.

26:48The two names we've heard outside of that are Roberto Mancini and Sean Dyche. I don't know if they'd get on, but they're not the same football manager, I think it's fair to say. So yeah, the floor, to kind of end where we started, the floor has gone because nobody can tell you with any conviction now what happens next. Christ. Tom, Colin, as neutrals, how much have you enjoyed rubbernecking on this absolute disaster class in mismanagement at the world-famous city ground over the last few months? I mean, I wouldn't say that I have enjoyed it. And I suspect a lot of neutrals will feel similar in that I think everyone of a neutral bent was happy to see Forrest back in the big time.

27:29And I think we all enjoyed seeing Forrest, you know, go so close to qualifying for the Champions League last season, getting back into Europe and, you know, this very important, very historic club being back on the map in such a big way. And I think we've all been slightly stupefied by the speed with which things have unraveled over the summer. But I mean, as Daniel said, the appointment of Poster Coglio in the first place made no sense whatsoever. And I feel a degree of sympathy for him. He doesn't help himself with his spikiness and with his demeanour and with this permanent chip on his shoulder.

28:01But I think, you know, you want a richness of profile of manager in the Premier League. You don't just want 20 identikit coaches. You want coaches with different ideas. And Postacoglu clearly is a bit of an ideologue. And I think, you know, that in many ways was his undoing at Spurs. But he adds a lot, you know, he adds a lot to the league when he's in it. And, you know, he was already in danger of becoming a bit of a laughingstock when he was at Spurs. Obviously salvaged things by winning the Europa League. But to now have this on his CV as well is, I think, very unfortunate. He should never have been there in the first place.

28:40I guess he's probably not going to turn down the job because he's ambitious and he wants to get back in a Premier League dugout and playing European football again. But I think everyone comes out of this as a loser. But the thought of either Mancini or Sean Dyche being back in the Premier League, that is something that I can get on board with. Presumably you want Mancini, right Colin? Because Dyche is just get them organised, keep them up. Whereas Mancini plus Maranakis equals God knows what. Yeah. Might break the record that Posta Coglu has just sat. Yeah, and Roberto Mancini, he loves to wear those big long club scarves as well that look almost like they're sort of handmade.

29:20I think those look absolutely fantastic on the touchline. One of the things that Daniel pointed out was about four goals they were conceding. In eight games under Ange Posta Coglu, 11 goals from set pieces, whether that's free kicks or corners. I mean, that is such an absurdly bad reflection on what had happened, especially for a team that had been so well organised and so well drilled. Those goals that Chelsea scored yesterday, each one of those goals was, especially the second and third, were just so soft. They were so, so soft. They were just goals that Premier League teams shouldn't be conceding.

29:55But it felt to me watching that game that as soon as that first went in, the confidence just completely fell out of forced players. They just lost hope in what they were doing. I think, obviously, with all the backdrop of what was going on, they kind of knew that this wasn't really a match that they were going to benefit from at all. And again, it was an appointment that didn't really make any sense at the time and even less now. And I mean, we kind of have not really addressed the forced issue, the fundamental issue whereby you have multiple football agents trying to pull strings behind the scenes in terms of which players are signed, who's in positions of power within the club, whether that be coaching, whether that be recruitment.

30:36And that has a toxic impact on what happens and what unfolds. I mean, we saw Nuno's interviews earlier in the season. The fact that he felt emboldened to do that speaks volumes. And obviously the Postacoglio interview is completely different, but they had 200 million players worth signed in the summer transfer window. None of them were in starting 11 on Saturday. And again, it's not even like they were playing badly. I mean, it's not a team that is, you look at it and think, oh, that group of players might go down. But the direction of the club just adds so much chaos to what goes on that that next appointment needs to be somebody who, again, can just tone down the noise, right?

31:14Can just come in and be like, I'm going to play my way. I'm going to make sure I've got a system and a formation the players can buy into and can buy into quite quickly because you don't have the time. Now, you've got European football as well. This is a really difficult schedule to come into for any coach. But there is quality there. if you have an idea of what you're doing and can gel those players together. It's not the end of the world, but Forrest as a club need to have some form of stability. Yeah, Porto coming to town on Thursday night, probably a fair chance of Angelos Maranakis will be in the dugout for that one himself, I suppose.

31:45As for Chelsea, three wins in a row for them now. This week's red card contest winner was Malo Gusto. They've got Ajax coming to Stamford Bridge on Wednesday for more on Chelsea. Have a listen to Straight Outta Cobham. It's the Athletics' dedicated Chelsea podcast. Luckily, Tom, Arsenal fans aren't a reactionary bunch online, so I'm sure they won't be too bothered that we're saving them until this point, even though they are top of the league. Saturday tea time, they win a classic. If they're going to win the title, they really need to win games like this kind of game at Fulham. Not loads of talking points from it.

32:18Settled by Leandro Trossard. I mean, the fact that there are not a lot of talking points from it is a big compliment to Mikel Arteta and just how serenely they're rolling along, isn't it? Yeah, completely. I mean, this was the cliched game that Arsenal wouldn't have won last season. And this was the game that they lost, I think, wasn't it? The season before last or the season before that. So all these Arsenal seasons have a habit of running into one massive homogenous lump in my head. But yeah, this is sort of new Arsenal, I guess. They're not particularly spectacular, but they grind teams down.

32:49They've got options on the bench. I think there's more of a kind of... I think there's just more perhaps faith in what everyone's doing now that they know that they've got players who can come on and change games. And when all else fails, there are just a set pieces. There's a Gabriel flick on and there's Trossett at the back post to turn it in. And yeah, you know, not the most convincing performance, but a time when, you know, Liverpool are encountering the first, you know, headwinds of the honour slot era. The City are still scratching around a little bit. there aren't any other serious title contenders if Arsenal keep doing this they will win the league and you do feel that momentum just starting to gather Does it matter then that Jokeres isn't scoring Colin?

33:34Yeah it's nine games without a goal now isn't it? Again he got a couple of shots off here and a couple of saves there was one sort of concern was raised with Victor Jokeres obviously he's got a fantastic goal scoring record in Portugal with Sporting Club but there was a concern that in Portugal he got that extra second inside the box to pull a shot off, whereas he kind of needs that time just to compose himself and to know exactly what he's doing in that moment. He's composed and he's a deadly finisher, but he just needs that extra bit of space. And it's very difficult to get that in the Premier League, probably more so than any other league because of how compact things are, especially in games like this and against a lot of teams that Arsenal are going to be playing who will be happy enough to sort of sit back a little bit, make things congested and just not give away any space.

34:20so it is going to be difficult for him I think maybe the benefit that he's brought to Arsenal is his ability to run in behind teams to stretch defences and to create the space for others so it may be slightly unfair to look at his goalsporing output albeit they did spend a lot of money on him the one thing about Arsenal is obviously you look at not just the clean sheet stats but the shots on target that they're just not conceding at all at the minute my issue would be whenever they do go behind in games how do they react to that because they're not getting a lot of practice at it at the minute which is obviously a good thing.

34:51But whenever I watched them play against Manchester City and you had that Pep Guardiola sort of ultra-pragmatic approach, they did struggle to bring them down. Yes, they got that last-minute equaliser, but they look like a team who are definitely adjusted to defending a lead, to frustrating opponents, to being able to block areas of the pitch at will. But in terms of breaking teams down, obviously they've got a lot of good individual players, but haven't really seen that much of it this season. Obviously this goes right back to the first game and they won at Manchester United. And you sort of thought, well, that performance isn't great at all, but it's a great win.

35:24So they've built on that defensively. They've built on that individually. But I just think whenever you have somebody like Xhocres who has gone in his front of games without a goal and other players may be struggling as well, you just maybe need to take the handbrake off a little bit. And I know that's something that a lot of people have said with Arsenal in recent weeks, but I do think that that might come in the next couple of games too. Classic Arsenal stuff though, isn't it? Another 1-0 win. That's two victories that come without their opponents. having a shot on target. What about Fulham, Daniel?

35:52I mean, what's going on with their funk? I kind of wonder whether Marco Silva to Forrest might suit Forrest, Silva and Fulham. I would have Fulham third on that list of who it suits the most in a very selfish way. I think he's a guy who's done a phenomenal job. They're basically the opposite. I think I said this a couple of weeks ago, but they're basically the opposite of Forrest in that they've come up and finished 10th, 13th, 11th, getting a low of 47 points and a high of 54. So they're just completely solid. I suspect, given what happened earlier in Silva's Premier League managerial career, there would be a reason why he might look for a more ambitious club.

36:32I think Fulham has spent about£90 million net since getting promoted. So that's what, four summers. And nearly half of that was Kevin this summer, who was a kind of late buy because Silva was pretty adamant he needed another attacking player and is yet to be fully bedded in. and they've lost Mitrovic and Polinia in that time. I think he's just done a phenomenal job and he's probably to an extent a victim of his own success in that he's become so dependable after a very erratic start to his Premier League career that it's very easy for Fulham to say, well, yeah, Marco will just sort it, get on with it.

37:08We'll finish between 10th and 13th or 8th and 15th and that's fine. We don't need to push on too much yet. I'm sure they would say publicly, we're always trying to push higher and higher, but it just doesn't feel like that from the outside. And I think it would be a real test of them, of what happened if he did leave. They would obviously be very, very keen for him to stay, at least until the summer. I think it's probably nailed on that he would leave next summer anyway, which can make these half seasons up until that point really kind of hard to tiptoe and get through. But then they're in absolutely no danger of relegation trouble.

37:46Yes, they've lost three in a row now, but they've already had good results this season. You'd back them to come again. They seem to be this club that, almost like Palace were two years ago, where they are magnetised towards lower mid-half. And for them, that's a pretty good return, given where they were when they went down from the Premier League. But it maybe isn't that sexy for Silva. That's an alternative universe, isn't there, where Silva leaves Fulham and Ange Postacoglu takes his job. But I think we can safely say that that ship has sailed now. So Arsenal top after that 19 points for them.

38:18Closest challenges to them are Manchester City. Erling Haaland helped them beat Everton by two goals to nil at the Etihad. They're Arsenal's main challenges, aren't they, Tom, City, based on what we've seen so far? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you assume that Liverpool will snap out of whatever it is they're going through at the moment, but perhaps not. I mean, the way that Liverpool ended the game today, They talked about the formation they had on the pitch. This mad 4-2-4 does not kind of scream, we know what we're doing, we know how we're going to sort this out. And yeah, I think as a consequence, you'd have to have City as Arsenal's closest rivals currently.

38:58I think that the issue with City is they never feel that far away from the next non-performance. You know, those back-to-back defeats against Spurs and Brighton don't feel all that long ago. but the last few weeks, 3-0 against United in the derby, very close to winning at Arsenal, had it not been for that Gabriel Martinelli equaliser at the death, very comfortable win at home to Burnley, won at Brentford and then beat Everton yesterday. And I think each of those last two games in particular is a kind of City doing the bare minimum, not creating a huge amount of chances, but doing enough and putting Erling Haaland in the kind of position that you need to put him in to score goals.

39:41And I think something that's been picked up on by quite a few people is his movement for both of the goals yesterday was really clever. And it's not that he wasn't capable of doing that, but it does feel like there is perhaps a little bit more creativity in his movement in the penalty area. He's not just trusting himself to out-muscle the centre-back, to get across his man at the near post. he's thinking a bit more about how he can be as dangerous as possible and the second goal in particular which comes from the cutback from the left-hand side reminded me of the kind of goal that Lionel Messi scores all the time and every time Lionel Messi scores that goal you think how on earth has Lionel Messi been left free he is literally the best footballer who's ever existed and the same thought occurs when it happens with Erling Haaland this is the most dangerous centre forward in the world you know pretty much honourable mentions to Harry Kane and Kylian Mbappe of course How does that happen?

40:36But it's because he is he is doing different things with his movement. And it's, you know, it is what needs to happen for this new iteration of City, this non possession obsessed, much more vertical version of City to work. and yes, they are extremely reliant on Haaland in a way that would be problematic if he stopped scoring goals. But there is a very real possibility that he just never stops scoring goals and if they carry on at this rhythm, then they could end up pushing Arsenal and whoever else pretty close. Problematic if he gets injured there, right, Colin? Yeah, yeah. I mean, who would step up with anywhere near that sort of output in City's squad?

41:19I mean, we talked about Manchester City last season. and in this game, Manchester City at home to Everton was on Boxing Day and it was 1-1. Erling Haaland actually had a penalty saved in that game and City had won just one in 13 matches at that point. They were in obviously the biggest crisis since Guardiola took over. Things were unraveling quite badly. Now, it is fair to say that those days are quite long behind us, but I would also say that this version of City, this reiteration of a more, I guess, more pragmatic or slightly less possession-obsessed team isn't quite the vintage city that we've known over the past five or six years.

41:55I think the frailties were still there in this game. Obviously, Rodri was out injured again, which maybe raises questions. He's sort of in and out of the team. His fitness is obviously so crucial to their kind of long-term ambitions. But once you come back from that injury, it's not always easy to avoid those other muscular injuries. But yeah, there were frailties here. I mean, Everton could have taken the lead once or twice in this game. I think Beto missed a sitter after some magnificent play from Indy, who was, again, he's just such an exciting player. He did that yesterday. So much fun. Just such a box of tricks.

42:26He's direct. He's physical as well. And that sort of player you can really buy into. If you're a club like Everton and you're going into these games, it gives you hope of getting something. But yeah, I mean, City got through this. I don't really see them as title challengers this year. I just don't think they've got quite enough about them. They don't really have the squad depth and the positions that they maybe need to have squad depth in. You still see them week in, week out. They don't really have the clear identity that Arsenal do. They don't really have the variety of attacking power that Liverpool do.

42:55So I think they would be doing very well to be in the race. But yeah, I mean, I still think there's fragilities there that might play out over the course of a season. They're on the right path, but I'm not sure they're quite yet. Up to you, Daniel, if you want to make a case for City being title challengers or if you want to tell me that we can stop pretending that Everton have had a good start to the season now, one win in six. out of the Carabao Cup? Yeah, I think City can be title challengers. I do. Having fallen so far off last season, I think the Premier League is now Guardiola's clear priority again over the Champions League.

43:31I think that the way they've refined Haaland into this kind of robot poacher this season is daunting for everybody else. I completely take the point that it's hard to refill his position, but then I think they just go a lot more freeform. You'd see Savino or Oscar Bob or other players coming in and just being hard to defend against in a different way. But while Haaland is there in his fit, he's scoring a goal every 62 minutes this season, which is absolutely ludicrous. I was looking earlier, he's having fewer touches in the final third than before, but he's having more touches in the penalty box than he has in his career ever since he moved to Dortmund.

44:11And so they've found a way to get him the ball. And I think that way is primarily Jeremy Docu. That seems to be working. Yeah, I mean, I agree. If a couple of players gets injured, I wouldn't pick them as title challengers. But as I stand now, I think they look like the second best team in the league. And we know that City have this habit where three weeks go by. They've all sort of almost done it, right? Like since they lost to, I was just looking then, since they lost to Brighton in August, they haven't lost. so they're coming in on two months without a defeat and with City that seems to happen far quicker than other clubs you look at their results and you think oh yeah they've won four in a row or they've won four league games without ever really being tested so when that builds they become this kind of super almost this confidence beast where they're like we will not be thrown off path I think the way that they're playing now is less reliant on Rodri I think it's probably partly a deliberate move to account for that.

45:11And if it gets the best out of Haaland, then they can win the league. He's scored 11 goals in eight games. So at this rate, I'm not saying he will, but at this rate, he's going to score 40. If he scores between 35 and 40 league goals this season, then City can definitely win the league. Yeah, six in a row for him in terms of Premier League games that he's scored in. Jamie Vardy, he is coming for you. Pep Guardiola will be back in Spain this week. aka TvR in the Champions League on Tuesday. We'll take a little break. When we come back, we'll talk about the thriller at Selhurst Park.

45:49This is the Totally Football Show. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. Palace want to win this. Set forward by Henderson. Mateta wins the header. And Ketia! Mateta!

46:11Oh, we are all Oliver Glaser now. Imagine scoring a hat-trick and leaving the pitch distraught at your own ineptitude. You've just imagined Crystal Palace 3, Bournemouth 3 with Jean-Philippe Mateta. Daniel, this was fun, he asked vaguely. Yeah, no, it was. It was great fun. It was fun, firstly, because Bournemouth seemed to have found another gem in Eli Junior Kruppi, who has played, I think, 98 Premier League minutes and already scored three goals. And seems already, even as he's still a teenager, Tom will probably know more about him than I will, but he's a teenager, but he seems to have this incredible ability to know where the ball's about to bounce in the box based on the glimpses I've seen him in the Premier League so far.

46:50And then, yeah, Jean-Valit Manteta, who's having the, I don't know, month, year, two years of his life, can't stop scoring in the France International picture is I think I'm not just saying this with immediate hindsight but strikes me to one of those strikers who is capable of scoring brilliant goals and then somehow missing a chance that you can't imagine he could miss and that was obviously exactly what happened there's a wonderful video of the uh the kind of hole of that end of the of Seldhurst Park when he skies over that late chance because everybody is like three quarters of the way to celebrating not even off their seats.

47:27They are celebrating an incredible last-minute winner. And he obviously skies it and then looks crestfallen as he carries the match ball off the pitch. But yeah, he's just really, really hard to deal with, Mateta. You look at the XG, Harland's miles clear in terms of how many shots he's had and the XG's found and touches in the box. And then it's Mateta and then a massive gap to anyone else. Obviously, that helped quite a lot by Saturday, but he's just such an impossible handful for defenders. And Glasner is getting the best out of him. Palace are being much more front foot this season. They're being much more kind of proactive with the ball.

48:04Really impressive given they lost Eze and Elise the year before. But yeah, it was fun, fun, fun. Crystal Palace-Bourmouth, I reckon two years ago, maybe a couple more than that, two or three years ago, you'd have said, this is the last of the match of the day fair. Going into this, I was like, this is going to be piping hot fun because Glasner wants to have fun. Iriola, they're both in the last year, it's like they're both in the last year of their contracts with their club and they might stay. But they're also like, this is the time to just enjoy ourselves. Let's make hay. Let's entertain. And it's exactly what the Premier League needs.

48:33So I was going to say about this being last on match of the day that these two games last season ended nil-nil. And again, that's partly to do with these two coaches, right? Yeah, they're fun coaches, but I think their strongest suit is when they're playing a bigger club, right? who they can then kind of look to counter-attack and go direct that and exploit. And by the way, I don't want to go too heavy on the XG I love in here, but this game, being a six-goal thriller, actually underperformed its XG by goal. So that kind of shows you the volume of chances end to end. And obviously... He also had an XG of 3.48 just himself.

49:14Yeah, that's quite high. That's quite a lot. So Bournemouth with 2-0 up, that creepy brace. Then Mateta restores parity. Ryan Christie thinks he's won it on 89. Mateta equalises from the penalty 90 plus 7. Iriola was not happy about that penalty, Tom. It was in the soft bracket for me. Now, I watched this game yesterday and I've already forgotten what that penalty was awarded for. Can you refresh my memory, please, Matt? It's like a little nudge in the back on Gahy when he's sort of running away from goal anyway. Oh, yeah, there was a bit of wrestling at a corner and there were a few kind of...

49:50Yeah, Kite, I believe, was the Bournemouth player. Yeah, a few kind of amorous embraces. And, you know, you watch the replay and particularly the slow-mo and he did have both of his arms around him. Could Gay have made more of an effort to stay on his feet, perhaps? But ultimately, I think for all of Mateta's disappointment, 3-3 was absolutely the fitting outcome. Neither team deserved to lose. Neither team deserved to win, really. Would have been an incredible story for Mateta to end up, you know, being the hero. But nevertheless, him skying that chance meant that we got a very rare sight of a player being handed the match ball and wearing an expression of utter dejection on his face as he as he took hold of it, which I thought was, yeah, it was pretty unusual.

50:32A couple more games to rattle through. Here's the Athletics' Nick Miller pointing out that Sunderland have already earned more points after eight games this season than Southampton managed throughout last term. Wolves no match for the Black Cats at the Stadium of Light Entertainment on Saturday. Regisla Briss's team remain unbeaten. How many more points do they need, Colin, before we just take them out of the relegation conversation completely? Oh, I think they're going to get them relatively quickly. I'm so impressed by the Sunderland team. And obviously it's easy to say that when they're winning games, right?

51:02But they've got the second best, joint second best defence in the league. The thing that's so impressive about Sunderland is not just, obviously they spent a lot of money, right? and they sign good players. But how that has been integrated into the system that they have, that they have existing from the championship so sort of seamlessly. And they know exactly what they're doing, right? So this is a team who kind of combine kind of the best of what both Burnley and Leeds have separately in the defensive solidity, but also the directness, the fact that they're so strong set pieces. And the goal yesterday, which Noree Michele scored, was assisted by Trae Hume.

51:38So you've got essentially two of the defenders. playing passes to each other in the opposition penalty box that's usually the confidence that these guys have got as well and yeah, every time I watch them I just think that they have such a clear plan as I said, but I think the stat was read out in Match of the Day last night in the UK that of the 99 teams that have ever been promoted, only four have had more points at this stage of the season than Sunderland do now so they already have made such a giant step towards what they want the issue is whenever this does happen and the expectations are risen so much I mean I don't think that's going to happen at Sunday this season but it is a case of you know I think teams are not going to be taking them very very seriously they're going to be looking at exactly what they've done well and will then try to obviously combat it with their own setups and I just don't think Wolves did that at all in this game and again for Wolves the start of the season which now just mirrors last season and raises the same questions as it did a year ago A fair bit of Zuta loring in the match of Zidane's studio about Regis Lebris and how well he's doing because he took Lorient down didn't he in his last job in France it's quite the turnaround for him Yeah I mean that Lorient season was peculiar because he had so many plaudits for the quality of their football over the previous season and then the relegation season working with a lot of young players and as lots of French clubs of that size very little money to spend and then you realise oh no he's going to take them down and it was rare to see or it was unusual striking to see a coach who'd built up such a big reputation for himself so quickly being relegated and you wondered how he was gonna bounce back from that and you know it is it is largely thanks to the fact that Sunderland have got a French owner in Kiro-Louis-Dreyfus that he was given the opportunity to go to Sunderland but in France it wasn't seen as a completely left-field decision.

53:33It's quite rare to see French coaches working in English football these days, but setting that aside, he'd shown that he was a really good coach at Lorient, that he could get his team playing good football, that he could achieve things with limited resources, that he was tactically flexible. And yeah, he's been so impressive since he's come in at Sunderland. And yeah, I think a lot of French football fans are enjoying watching his team because the Premier League is followed very closely in France and it's been a while since there was a French coach in it doing good things. It's easy to forget that Sunderland very nearly didn't go up, not just the fact that they went through the playoffs, but that last-minute winner against Coventry, obviously in the semi-final, and then the late show against Sheffield United in the final.

54:17Things could have gone completely the other way. They would never have had all that equipment, all that investment this summer. But yeah, it's incredible how quickly they've gelled together and that's really a testament to the coaching team there. Sure is. Daniel, is there anything you want to say on this game? Just the post-match quote from Vitor Pereira about how Wolves must improve. He said, we must win, score goals and not concede goals. So he's got a handle on it. The Portuguese David Moyes. He's got a handle on it. Yeah. I mean, Wolves are routinely bad at pretty much everything at the moment.

54:50I think they're the worst team at converting shots to goals, the second worst at allowing their opponents to do it. And he keeps picking a different midfield, either shape or personnel, which suggests that he's not completely yet sure, after a summer of not loads of investment, certainly not high-class investment, what his best team is. And they look like everybody's safety blanket at the moment, Wolves, unfortunately for them. Yeah, Vitor Pereira said, we must win our next game, which is Burnley at Molyneux next Sunday. Can't see that coming back to bite him at all. At least he's got that nice new contract to keep him warm.

55:27Elsewhere, Brighton and Hove Albion 2, Newcastle United 1. Dannings double doing enough for the Seagulls against the Magpies in the Derby Dell ornithology. Here's a couple of blanket statements, Daniel, that you wouldn't get if Jimbo was here. A bit talk sporty. Brighton ought to be qualifying for Europe this season and Newcastle have only won two Premier League games and that's quite rubbish. Which one of those would you like to go at? Focus on the second one because I think, yeah, Brighton should doing anything I think is a little bit unfair. But they're the only team who aren't in European competition who have got a chance of qualifying for it, aren't they?

56:02Yeah, Bournemouth, Manchester United maybe. But yeah, I mean, look, they've had a slightly sticky start, Brighton. They look like they're finally kind of getting themselves sorted, not least because however many strikers they buy, they are forever destined for Danny Welbeck to score between 8 and 12 goals in the league. And some of them be absolutely brilliant. And Newcastle, just because I've seen them play three away games this season. I saw them play at Bournemouth. I saw them play at Leeds. And I saw this one. And they just look like they're sort of set up to try and draw 0-0 or at least get to half-time 0-0 and then see what happens.

56:41And I think given, I know Joanne Wisser has not played much yet, but given that Nick Voltemada has been six or seven times better than anyone thought he would be in his first month or so as a Newcastle player, It just seems really disappointing they're not trying to make more of that. Anthony Alanga is struggling definitely on the right. I think not having the space to run into that he had at Forest, having to kind of basically learn how to play in a new system. Anthony Gordon's still slightly flattering to deceive. They just seem a bit, given when I write out their first choice team and they've pretty much got it out at the moment, I think Newcastle have got the fourth or fifth best team in the Premier League when everyone's fit.

57:21And it just seems really odd that they're not kind of trying to kick on more. And the reason I say it is their next four away games in the league are West Ham, Brentford, Everton, Sunderland, of which they really are going to have to do that. They need to actually kind of seize the initiative in a game and take it to a team away from home because I don't think there's any excuse for them not to have done it at the start of this season. They scored one away goal this season. That was obviously this one. And it was a kind of piece of magic from Votermader to look like it might save them a point after not really doing much until then and then they go and concede again anyway.

57:55So just a bit disappointing, yeah. They've got Jose Mourinho's Benfica coming to St. James' Park in the Champions League on Tuesday. Speaking of European matters, Jim Bell will be back with a Totally Football Show European edition out first thing on Tuesday, looking ahead to match day three of the Champions League league phase. Plus, looking back at some huge clashes across the continent this weekend. Harry Kane scoring again for Bayern in their classical win over Dortmund. Vincent Kompany's side remain the only team in Europe's top five leagues with a 100 % winning record. Hey, he used to manage Burnley, didn't he?

58:29Remember that? Burnley versus Leeds, despite the rhyming managers currently in situ, always likely to be last on the agenda this weekend. Parker laying down a marker as things get darker for Farker. Leeds suffering a second successive defeat. It was worth staying till the end of the pod for that, surely, wasn't it? I mean, Burnley did pretty well, Tom, right? They deserve a little bit of credit as well, don't they? Out of the relegations only, said patronisingly. No, absolutely. I think they've probably been eclipsed a little bit by what Sunderland have been doing, which has been very impressive, and perhaps a little bit by what Leeds have been doing in that Leeds had more wins on the board than they did going into this game.

59:06But Burnley have been unfortunate in quite a few games. They were holding on to a 2-2 draw away at United, gave away a very avoidable penalty, lost 3-2, battled manfully at home to Liverpool in their next game and ended up conceding a penalty right at the end. So they have been producing decent performances and they've now beaten both of the other promoted teams 2-0 at home. And I think one of the big curiosities about Burnley coming up this season was were they going to be able to recapture the defensive solidity that was their trademark in the Championship last season? The fact they lost 3-0 at Spurs on the opening day suggested probably not.

59:47But, I mean, that was not really a 3-0 game in Burnley's defence. And, you know, I think the fact that they have managed to produce a couple of those performances suggests that the foundations are perhaps a bit more solid than they were the last time they came out. And their home form and their away form is very contrasting. But I think for teams like this, it is so important just to get those points on the board at home. And obviously they won this game to nil. They beat Sunderland at home to nil and they were, well, a minute or two away from taking a point against Liverpool to nil at home too.

1:00:17So that shows you that they have got a structure in place that is working in the correct environment. Albeit in this game, Leeds United had an absolutely absurd number of half chances, sort of in and around the box. Had a pretty big XG. 47 crosses they put into Burnley's box. Yeah, there was a lot of frustration for them. But I think that partly shows you how well Burnley defended. There's certainly that central area that they didn't really give away any big, big opportunities. It was all sort of shots from range at the edge of the box. The two goals for Bernie's squad as well were both very good for different reasons.

1:00:50The first one was all about the Kyle Walker pinpoint cross into the box, which was absolutely outstanding. And then the second one, the long range. Absolute beauty. Strike out of absolutely nowhere. How do we say his name, Tom? Lume Chauna, formerly of Rennes and Dijon, and then went to Salah Natana and Lazio and is now at Burnley. So he's had quite a curious career path and that was his first Burnley goal, his first goal in the Premier League. You suspect he might not score a better one. It was a beaut. Who is more likely, if either, to stay up, do you think, Daniel, out of Burnley and Leeds?

1:01:25I can't see Burnley collapsing in on themselves. I'm not sure they'll get enough points to stay up, although I do like what they've done in central midfield. I was watching the game back and Florentino Luis, the signing from Benfica, looked really, really good. Like loads of energy, loads of tackles. You know exactly what you need as a great club. A bit like Jaupelinho when Fulham came up. So they look like they've got that energy. I don't think they'll get embarrassed. I don't think they'll collapse. Whereas I think at some point there is a chance that leads to turn on Daniel Farker. He's just, I don't know, the team selection is a bit odd to me.

1:01:59He's persisting with Jack Harrison and Brendan Aronson. And he's sort of got this midfield of giants, but Ayo Tanaka is, well, I think he was player of the season in the Championship last season, certainly one of. He's on the bench at the moment. There were always going to be some murmurings, I think, about Farker because Leeds fans have never been completely sold on him, even after going up. And there were rumours about Leeds maybe replacing him in the summer. So I just wonder if maybe that might fall in themselves. The thing with Leeds is the way they're setting up to play, they can't afford to concede twice because they are a team that is just, they are trying to win games 1-0.

1:02:35They are trying to be like physical and then get the ball across from Calvert-Lewin and hope he scores ahead, that kind of thing. And it just feels a little bit one-dimensional at the moment. That was the Premier League weekend. West Ham host Brentford on Monday night. Nuno's first home game in Charterham. It was pointless at the London Stadium. Bees haven't got any points on the board away from home. Something has to give then. Speaking of West Ham, Saturday's Totally Extra was all about the 2006-07 vintage of the Hammers. Tevez, Masturano, Pards, Kerbs. One of the greatest escapes from relegation ever.

1:03:10Just about done for the day, but Tom, I did want to mention this Reyes Cleary. Goal from the halfway line for Barnsley at Bradford. Transfer counter-attack. He's gone directly for goal. And it might cause all sorts of problems, and it has! Oh, how about that? Reyes Cleary from 70 yards A goal from the halfway line is always good, right? But there's like the Beckham one where it doesn't look that good because Neil Sullivan's kind of scrambling back half-heartedly The goals aren't great, so the way the ball hits the net not that aesthetically pleasing This, the keeper is properly flailing It's flighted like a goal shot It is an absolute thing of beauty I mean, the goal from the halfway line for a long time was football's holy grail Even Pele couldn't do it.

1:03:56And so when Beckham scored against Wimbledon in 1996, it was like, this is a really big thing. And that was obviously the goal that launched him to superstardom. And one of the few things that kind of dismays me about the availability of modern football coverage is that you now see goals scored from halfway quite a lot. And every time you do, I don't know, my heart just breaks a little bit. And they tend to all kind of resemble each other after a while. But this one, he's so deep inside his own heart, off Cleary that he has to really welly it you feel like he is putting absolutely everything into it and it goes so high isn't it it's a goal kick effectively so high straight as a die and the goalkeeper has kind of got the I think he's got the time to get back and save it but it's just his brain is so scrambled by the fact that he's about to be beaten from the best part of 70 yards that he gets really confused ball dips just beneath the crossbar and the goalie ends up in a tangle in the back of the net.

1:04:5310 out of 10, no notes. Yeah, I don't think we can improve on that. That's where we're going to leave it for today. Reyes Cleary of Barnsley gets the last word on the Totally Football Show. Would you believe it? Thank you for joining us today, listener. If you were live on YouTube or if you've caught up with us after that, thanks to Daniel, to Tom, to Colin for their expertise and the boys in the booth putting it together. Jimbo back with the Euro show tomorrow and then looking ahead to the weekend's Premier League action on Thursday too. for now though from all of us it's goodbye

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